From ecosys at pacbell.net Mon May 1 01:09:40 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:09:40 -0700 Subject: butterfly's checklist for England References: <8efjh7$g92$1@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <390D1193.A1ABDDCF@pacbell.net> "Checklist and Status of British Native Butterfly Species" may be found at: http://fff.nhm.ac.uk/fff/chekButs.htm "Fran?ois" wrote: > Hi > > I'm looking for a list of butterfly of England (also a redlist) > > Thank's > > Fran?ois > > PS : pour les francophones, savez vous si il existe une liste de discussion > en fran?ais sur les papillons. From ecosys at pacbell.net Mon May 1 01:38:26 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:38:26 -0700 Subject: Research - please help References: Message-ID: <390D1852.E15D8354@pacbell.net> Claire, There are links to Australian butterfly information [and lepidoptera of many areas of the world] to be found at this address: http://www.york.biosis.org/zrdocs./zoolinfo/grp_lep.htm Claire Gebbie wrote: > Hi. I'm doing a creative writing assignment and am looking for some specific > information about butterflies which I haven't been able to turn up in books > or on the net. > > The story is set at a lighthouse along the Australian coast, but what I'm > trying to find out is whether or not some species of butterflies can be > found in such coastal areas. > > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks in advance, Claire From ecosys at pacbell.net Mon May 1 01:27:31 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:27:31 -0700 Subject: Mimas tiliae References: <006701bfb299$f7651300$2a04bed4@rug.ac.be> Message-ID: <390D15C3.645136C7@pacbell.net> --------------C2E47336B2AD3441B96EAD07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You may look it up at "Sphingidae of the Western Palaearctic": http://members.aol.com/tpittaway/sphingid/list.htm The specific page for Mimas and Mimas tiliae is: http://members.aol.com/tpittaway/sphingid/m_til.htm Notebaert wrote: > Today we had a green coloured Lime Hawkmoth (Mimas tiliae) in our > veranda, in Drongen near Ghent, Belgium. Before we had already other > hawkmoths but it is the first time we have this species. Has someone > information about its occurrence in Western Europe and on which trees > the larva feed?Thanks, Bastiaan Notebaert > Drongen, Belgium > bnotebaert at hotmail.com > http://www.geocities.com/notebas --------------C2E47336B2AD3441B96EAD07 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You may look it up at "Sphingidae of the Western Palaearctic":
http://members.aol.com/tpittaway/sphingid/list.htm

The specific page for Mimas and Mimas tiliae is:
http://members.aol.com/tpittaway/sphingid/m_til.htm

Notebaert wrote:

Today we had a green coloured Lime Hawkmoth (Mimas tiliae) in our veranda, in Drongen near Ghent, Belgium. Before we had already other hawkmoths but it is the first time we have this species. Has someone information about its occurrence in Western Europe and on which trees the larva feed?Thanks, Bastiaan Notebaert
Drongen, Belgium
bnotebaert at hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/notebas
--------------C2E47336B2AD3441B96EAD07-- From ecosys at pacbell.net Mon May 1 01:03:04 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:03:04 -0700 Subject: Migrant Painted Lady References: Message-ID: <390D1008.2653297C@pacbell.net> --------------C19B605A47D85A2B727DD253 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To those interested in advancing knowledge about the red admiral and painted ladies I commend "The Red Admiral and Painted Lady Web Site": http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mariposa/homepage.html "Robert L. Chehey" wrote: > Bart's Letter reminded me that I too saw painted ladies, starting > Monday of this week. So far, I have not seen one settle, so I don't > know which species. ******************************************** > Robert L. Chehey > MAILTO:cheheyr at micron.net > Boise, ID, USA, USDA Zones 6a, 6b. > Cool, Mediterranean Shrub-steppe > and frondose riparian forest > N43?38.67' W116?13.68' Altitude: 816M > ******************************************** ----- Original Message > -----From: "Bart Vanholder" To: > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 2:28 PMSubject: > Migrant Painted Lady --------------C19B605A47D85A2B727DD253 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------85B6C02A005B912B64C233CB" --------------85B6C02A005B912B64C233CB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To those interested in advancing  knowledge about the red admiral and painted ladies I commend "The Red Admiral and Painted Lady Web Site":
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mariposa/homepage.html

"Robert L. Chehey" wrote:

 Bart's Letter reminded me that I too saw painted ladies, starting Monday of this week.  So far, I have not seen one settle, so I don't know which species. ********************************************
Robert L. Chehey
MAILTO:cheheyr at micron.net
Boise, ID, USA, USDA Zones 6a, 6b.
Cool, Mediterranean Shrub-steppe
and frondose riparian forest
N43º38.67'  W116º13.68' Altitude: 816M
******************************************** ----- Original Message -----From: "Bart Vanholder" <bvholder at bigfoot.com>To: <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 2:28 PMSubject: Migrant Painted Lady 
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Pictures, cards, etc. I was surfing for new images (as usual!) when I found this website. I don't know if they are local, brothers, or what, but his butterfly pictures were astounding. (I think they make cards and stuff) He captures butterflies in motion, and in their natural habitat. It says he's from New Jersey (didn't know the nature was so lovely there) but I was impressed. http://natrefs.com/ is their url, but their gallery is great! If you are looking for butterfly images, check these guys out- pentax at austin.rr.com From lizc8913 at my-deja.com Mon May 1 11:07:34 2000 From: lizc8913 at my-deja.com (lizc8913 at my-deja.com) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:07:34 GMT Subject: Beautiful moth -- need ID Message-ID: <8ek6jc$88l$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Hi, I am happy to have found your group on the Internet. My mother recently found a beautiful moth on the floor of her garage in Central Texas. We know nothing about moths and butterflies, but she would very much like to know what kind of insect it is. I have done my best to scan in this moth and have posted a picture of it at this URL: http://www.wedey.hispeed.com/moth2.jpg The underside is light brown and looks like a dried leaf. It seemed very exotic to us, but we don't know whether it is an unusual moth or just an especially beautiful example of an ordinary moth. Any ID would be very appreciated by Mom and dutiful daughter. Thanks, Liz Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Mon May 1 12:17:08 2000 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 09:17:08 -0700 Subject: Beautiful moth -- need ID Message-ID: >I have done my best to scan in this moth and have posted a picture of it >at this URL: > >http://www.wedey.hispeed.com/moth2.jpg Ordinary moth, actually - the "Vine Sphinx," _Eumorpha vitis_. Got any grapes in your yard? ;-) Peace, Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 From maritza_romero at hotmail.com Mon May 1 12:39:15 2000 From: maritza_romero at hotmail.com (Maritza Romero-Gutierrez) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:39:15 PDT Subject: BUTTERFLY PICS Message-ID: <20000501163915.540.qmail@hotmail.com> If you like butterfly images you should check out this site. He has hundreds of butterfly images and you can send them out as ecards. He also has beautiful flower and landscapes images. >>From: tina kolesnik >>Reply-To: kolesnik at austin.rr.com >>To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu >>Subject: BUTTERFLY PICS >>Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:48:21 GMT >> >>I hate adverts, but I have to say this-I love butterflies. Pictures, >>cards, etc. I was surfing for new images (as usual!) when I found this >>website. I don't know if they are local, brothers, or what, but his >>butterfly pictures were astounding. (I think they make cards and stuff) >>He captures butterflies in motion, and in their natural habitat. It >>says he's from New Jersey (didn't know the nature was so lovely there) >>but I was impressed. http://natrefs.com/ is their url, but their >>gallery is great! If you are looking for butterfly images, check these >>guys out- >> >>pentax at austin.rr.com >> > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From stephen.b at cytanet.com.cy Mon May 1 16:54:40 2000 From: stephen.b at cytanet.com.cy (steveb) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:54:40 +0200 Subject: BUTTERFLY PICS References: <20000501163915.540.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On 1 May 2000 09:56:50 -0700, maritza_romero at hotmail.com (Maritza Romero-Gutierrez) wrote: >If you like butterfly images you should check out this site. He has hundreds >of butterfly images and you can send them out as ecards. He also has >beautiful flower and landscapes images. Another good site here also for butterflies from various parts of the world - now on the Island of Cyprus. http://call.to/steveb >From the main page go to the PHOTOS and follow the thumbnails. Steve From maritza_romero at hotmail.com Mon May 1 16:59:25 2000 From: maritza_romero at hotmail.com (Maritza Romero-Gutierrez) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:59:25 PDT Subject: BUTTERFLY PICS Message-ID: <20000501205925.30485.qmail@hotmail.com> Ooops, forgot the url: http://www.OGphoto.com If you like butterfly images you should check out this site. He has hundreds of butterfly images and you can send them out as ecards. He also has beautiful flower and landscapes images. Original message: From: tina kolesnik Reply-To: kolesnik at austin.rr.com To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Subject: BUTTERFLY PICS Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:48:21 GMT I hate adverts, but I have to say this-I love butterflies. Pictures, cards, etc. I was surfing for new images (as usual!) when I found this website. I don't know if they are local, brothers, or what, but his butterfly pictures were astounding. (I think they make cards and stuff) He captures butterflies in motion, and in their natural habitat. It says he's from New Jersey (didn't know the nature was so lovely there) but I was impressed. http://natrefs.com/ is their url, but their gallery is great! If you are looking for butterfly images, check these guys out- pentax at austin.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From plauzolesp at bigvalley.net Mon May 1 16:50:42 2000 From: plauzolesp at bigvalley.net (Pierre A Plauzoles) Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:50:42 -0700 Subject: Beautiful moth -- need ID References: <8ek6jc$88l$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID: <390DEE22.A8100DCB@bigvalley.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7749B355BC791A0E2B817C2B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit lizc8913 at my-deja.com wrote: > Hi, I am happy to have found your group on the Internet. > > My mother recently found a beautiful moth on the floor of her garage in > Central Texas. We know nothing about moths and butterflies, but she > would very much like to know what kind of insect it is. > > I have done my best to scan in this moth and have posted a picture of it > at this URL: > > http://www.wedey.hispeed.com/moth2.jpg > > The underside is light brown and looks like a dried leaf. > > It seemed very exotic to us, but we don't know whether it is an unusual > moth or just an especially beautiful example of an ordinary moth. > > Any ID would be very appreciated by Mom and dutiful daughter. Hello, and welcome to the group. Much as I may know the species found here in southern Ca;lifornia (and where and how to find others), I have been unable to find this one. Perhaps you should email one of the following (the US Geological Survey has been given, for better or for worse :-] ) the responsibility of continuing the work of the National Biological Survey, hence Opler's listing as working for the USGS). One of them will probably be able to identify it. If not, you still have some options left: 1/ do feel free to try me (or the list/newsgroup) again; 2/ try one of the university entomology departments, zoos or natural history museums near you. Good luck. Pierre A Plauzoles sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com PS: The attached file is a list of possible resources for you to try. 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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////8BAP7/AwoAAP////8GCQIAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGGAAAAE1pY3Jvc29m dCBXb3JkIERvY3VtZW50AAoAAABNU1dvcmREb2MAEAAAAFdvcmQuRG9jdW1lbnQuOAD0ObJx AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA== --------------7749B355BC791A0E2B817C2B-- From jmathew at oeb.harvard.edu Mon May 1 18:29:19 2000 From: jmathew at oeb.harvard.edu (John Mathew) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Feniseca Message-ID: Dear fellow lepidopterists, Over the last two years, we (Michael Canfield, Naomi Pierce and John Mathew) have been actively soliciting specimens and information on Feniseca tarquinius (the Harvester) across its range. We are in the process of organising our data-base on the subject and to this end, would be most grateful for your assistance. We are sending in a proforma with specimen entries, and if you could, via e-mail or regular post, follow the same format in providing your information, that would be most helpful. a) Location: Rt.16., about 1 mile north of Berlin, New Hampshire, on the west side of the Androscoggin River. b) Date of collection: August 15th, 1998 c) Tree species on which aphid colonies &caterpillars were found: Alnus rugosa (Speckled alder). d) Aphid species: Prociphilus tessallatus. e) Approximate number of Feniseca Caterpillars (across sites): 45. f) Any other information: Clear day, ambient temperature around 68 degrees Fahrenheit. At two sites at the location, evidence of considerable predation on aphids. Many thanks. If you could fill in as many of these fields as possible in your turn, that would be wonderful. We look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely yours, John Mathew, Michael Canfield, and Naomi Pierce, Musuem of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: (617)495-4012. Email: jmathew at oeb.harvard.edu, mcanfield at oeb.harvard.edu, npierce at oeb.harvard.edu From Walter.Schoen at t-online.de Mon May 1 18:24:59 2000 From: Walter.Schoen at t-online.de (Walter.Schoen) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:24:59 +0200 Subject: Migrant Painted Lady References: <000601bfb150$58b944a0$2cf34ec2@bs663526.skynet.be> Message-ID: <8el0fq$6v1$1@news04.btx.dtag.de> Hello, I observed 8 Painted Ladies in South-Germany since April, 26th ! It is unusually to have so many so early here ! Have a look at my site on migrating species in South-Germany / Europe at http://www.schmetterling-raupe.de (Section "Schmetterlinge" , "English pages" ) Walter Schoen From Mothman617 at mediaone.net Mon May 1 21:20:33 2000 From: Mothman617 at mediaone.net (Mothman617) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 01:20:33 GMT Subject: Beautiful moth -- need ID References: <8ek6jc$88l$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID: The moth pictured is a hawkmoth (Eumorpha fasciatus). Its caterpillars feed upon Grapevines and related plants. I do beleive this species is rather common in the extreme southern U.S. and Mexico. wrote in message news:8ek6jc$88l$1 at nnrp1.deja.com... > Hi, I am happy to have found your group on the Internet. > > My mother recently found a beautiful moth on the floor of her garage in > Central Texas. We know nothing about moths and butterflies, but she > would very much like to know what kind of insect it is. > > I have done my best to scan in this moth and have posted a picture of it > at this URL: > > http://www.wedey.hispeed.com/moth2.jpg > > The underside is light brown and looks like a dried leaf. > > It seemed very exotic to us, but we don't know whether it is an unusual > moth or just an especially beautiful example of an ordinary moth. > > Any ID would be very appreciated by Mom and dutiful daughter. > > Thanks, > Liz > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From plauzolesp at bigvalley.net Tue May 2 03:33:06 2000 From: plauzolesp at bigvalley.net (Pierre A Plauzoles) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:33:06 -0700 Subject: Beautiful moth -- need ID References: <8ek6jc$88l$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID: <390E84B2.232BC53B@bigvalley.net> --------------8008F3C9EF0C9512FB205094 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit lizc8913 at my-deja.com wrote: > Hi, I am happy to have found your group on the Internet. > > My mother recently found a beautiful moth on the floor of her garage in > Central Texas. We know nothing about moths and butterflies, but she > would very much like to know what kind of insect it is. > > I have done my best to scan in this moth and have posted a picture of it > at this URL: > > http://www.wedey.hispeed.com/moth2.jpg Having read Doug's reply and looked again at the Moths of North America illustrations (thanks, Doug, for setting me straight on this) for Eumorpha vitis at http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/usa/1056.htm and for E fasciata at http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/usa/1050.htm I can say with some confidence that what you have found is the Vine Sphinx, Eumorpha vitis. The stripes on the upperside of the forewing are much wider in Eumorpha fasciata than in E vitis. also, your phot clearly shows a white strope across the rear of the thorax (maybe the forward edge of the abdomen?) which does not show in the illustration of Eumorpha fasciata. There are people who will argue until the day they die that identification on the basis of a picture is not possible, but I say wait and maybe the picture will be sufficient. Of course, I was right -- this time -- because it wasn't a case of needing to do a DNA test ir genitalic dissection to identify the animal. Sometimes it is, but not this trime. Patience pays off handsomely. Sometimes it takes its time, but not always. Pierre A Plauzoles sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com --------------8008F3C9EF0C9512FB205094 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit lizc8913 at my-deja.com wrote:
Hi, I am happy to have found your group on the Internet.

My mother recently found a beautiful moth on the floor of her garage in
Central Texas. We know nothing about moths and butterflies, but she
would very much like to know what kind of insect it is.

I have done my best to scan in this moth and have posted a picture of it
at this URL:

http://www.wedey.hispeed.com/moth2.jpg

Having read Doug's reply and looked again at the Moths of North America illustrations (thanks, Doug, for setting me straight on this) for Eumorpha vitis at

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/usa/1056.htm

and for E fasciata at

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/usa/1050.htm

I can say with some confidence that what you have found is the Vine Sphinx, Eumorpha vitis.  The stripes on the upperside of the forewing are much wider in Eumorpha fasciata than in E vitis.  also, your phot clearly shows a white strope across the rear of the thorax (maybe the forward edge of the abdomen?) which does not show in the illustration of  Eumorpha fasciata.

There are people who will argue until the day they die that identification on the basis of a picture is not possible, but I say wait and maybe the picture will be sufficient.  Of course, I was right -- this time -- because it wasn't a case of needing to do a DNA test ir genitalic dissection to identify the animal.  Sometimes it is, but not this trime.

Patience pays off handsomely.  Sometimes it takes its time, but not always.

Pierre A Plauzoles
sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com
  --------------8008F3C9EF0C9512FB205094-- From zagatti at versailles.inra.fr Tue May 2 03:24:42 2000 From: zagatti at versailles.inra.fr (Pierre Zagatti) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:24:42 +0200 Subject: butterfly's checklist for England References: <8efjh7$g92$1@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <390E82BA.43801A3C@versailles.inra.fr> "Fran?ois" wrote: > PS : pour les francophones, savez vous si il existe une liste de discussion > en fran?ais sur les papillons. Yenapas -- Pierre ZAGATTI INRA Unite de Phytopharmacie et Mediateurs Chimiques 78026 Versailles Cedex FRANCE Tel: (33) 1 30 83 31 18 e-mail zagatti at versailles.inra.fr http://www.jouy.inra.fr/papillon/ http://www.jouy.inra.fr/papillon/arct_guy/arct_guy.htm From lizc8913 at my-deja.com Tue May 2 09:39:44 2000 From: lizc8913 at my-deja.com (lizc8913 at my-deja.com) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 13:39:44 GMT Subject: Beautiful moth -- need ID References: <8ek6jc$88l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <390E84B2.232BC53B@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: <8emlqt$v86$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Thanks, Pierre, and the others who replied. My mother will be pleased to have an ID on her little friend. :-) -- Liz Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From ehammond at sunshine-project.de Tue May 2 14:09:47 2000 From: ehammond at sunshine-project.de (Edward Hammond) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:09:47 -0700 Subject: Report Calls on the UN Biodiversity Convention to Stop Dangerous US Fungus Experiments Message-ID: The Sunshine Project Press Release 2 May 2000 http://www.sunshine-project.org *** Report Calls on the UN Biodiversity Convention *** *** to Stop Dangerous US Fungus Experiments *** (Hamburg & Seattle, 2 May 00) In a detailed report released today, the Sunshine Project, a new international non-profit dedicated to exposing abuses of biotechnology, calls on the upcoming Nairobi meeting of the UN Biodiversity Convention to halt the USA?s dangerous experiments with fungi designed to kill narcotic crops. TARGETED AT DEVELOPING COUNTRIES OF ASIA AND THE AMERICAS Intended to kill opium poppy, coca, and cannabis plants, the microbes present risks to human health and biodiversity. There is imminent danger that a highly infectious fungus will be deliberately released in Andean and Amazonian centres of diversity. The US-backed fungi have already been used experimentally on opium poppy and cannabis in the US and in Central Asia. Fungus targets include hundreds of thousands of cultivated hectares in narcotic crop-producing countries in South, Southeast, and Central Asia, along with Mexico, Central, and South American countries. Thirty years after the heavy use of toxic herbicides (Agent Orange) in the Vietnam War, the USA is planning the use of a biological agent ("Agent Green") in the Drug War. ENVIRONMENTALLY UNSOUND - THREAT TO ENDANGERED SPECIES The strains of the fungi Fusarium oxysporum and Pleospora papveracae might infect and kill plants other than coca, poppy, and cannabis in ecologically sensitive areas of Asia and the Americas. US Department of Agriculture researchers have never tested the host range of Agent Green on plant species native to target countries, including Colombia, which is currently number one on the USA?s list of places to use the fungi. Only a limited range of commercial crops were tested, which is little indication of how the fungi will behave in the varied and poorly-understood real-world ecologies where they might be used. "The USA is playing roulette with irreplaceable biological diversity" says Susana Pimiento Chamorro, a Colombian lawyer with the Sunshine Project. "In Colombia, four close relatives of coca are already listed as endangered. Agent Green might be the last step to their extinction." It is well known that some strains of F. oxysporum can infect many different plants, even distantly related species. To avoid disturbing delicate ecosystems in the Amazon, rural Southeast Asia, and the Andes, the fungi must not be released. One of the most highly prized butterflies in the world, the Agrias (Agrias sp.) depends on coca?s wild relatives in Amazonian rainforest. Plants in the coca genus are the butterfly?s host plant, the only place where young larvae feed and mature. A beautiful fast flyer listed as endangered in Brazil, one of Agrias? centres of speciation is the Upper Putumayo River region, precisely where the US intends to apply the heaviest doses of the coca-killing fungus. If the fungus attacks wild coca relatives, it will ultimately hurt the Agrias butterfly. Even more disturbing is the fact that strains of Fusarium oxysporum are highly toxic to animals and humans. Birds feeding on plant seeds are endangered, and consumption of the coca leaves ? which is legal in Peru and Bolivia ? might pose a health threat. "Fusaria can produce mycotoxins that are deadly enough to be considered weapons of war and are listed as biological agents in the draft Protocol to the Biological and Toxic Weapons Convention, " says Sunshine Project biologist Dr. Jan Van Aken, "US researchers have not tested Agent Green?s production of these deadly mycotoxins." Once released into the environment, the deadly fungus cannot be recalled. Indeed, the coca fungus appears to have escaped scientists? grasp when it jumped into control plots during field tests in Hawaii. REJECTED IN THE USA ? BUT PROMOTED ABROAD The fungus has been clearly rejected in the USA, the world?s number one producer of illicit cannabis. Last year, the Florida Environmental Protection Agency emphatically opposed and halted a proposal to use Fusaria. According to the Agency?s director: "It is difficult, if not impossible to control the spread of Fusarium species. The mutated fungi can cause disease in large number of crops? Fusarium species are more active in warm soils and can stay resident in the soil for years." Senior US officials have failed to obtain the financial backing of other governments for the plan. Except for modest support from the UK for the poppy killer, no other donor country has financially backed the idea. But this has not stopped the USA?s drug warriors from pressuring Asian and South American countries. Through the offices of the UN Drug Control Programme (UNDCP), pressure is being put on Colombia especially, which is being asked to sign a field testing contract. Ironically, it was under Colombian leadership that the recent Biosafety Protocol negotiations were successfully concluded, and Colombia?s Environment Minister is now President of the high-level UN Commission on Sustainable Development. FUNGUS MOVEMENT CAN LEAD TO INNOCENT VICTIMS According to the Sunshine Project?s Edward Hammond, "An obvious and flagrant flaw in the fungal eradication plan is that microbes pay no attention to passport and visa requirements. The fungus can spread without regard to political borders, potentially attacking legal crops and countries that do not agree to its use." There are many potential victims. Canadian industrial hemp growers have expressed concern about US plans. Fungus applications in coca growing areas in southern Colombia, for example, might lead to infections in Ecuador, Brazil, or Peru (a legal coca producer). Use in Central and South Asia, for example Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Turkmenistan, could lead to losses for bordering India which, under a strict licensing system, produces about half the world?s legal pharmaceutical opiates. In Southeast Asia, a variety of disastrous scenarios can be envisioned, where opium poppy areas for example in Burma border on Laos, Thailand and China, which produces opiates for domestic pharmaceutical use. If developing country production of legal pharmaceutical opiates is damaged by fungus spread, industrialized producers like Australia ? which has already planted extra-potent genetically engineered opium poppy - could increase market share. THREATENS TRADITIONAL USE The rights of indigenous people who cultivate the target crops for traditional, non-drug uses are also endangered. In South Asia, poppies are used in traditional medicine and plant material is used as fodder. Coca has been used for over a millennium in traditional medicine from Colombia to Argentina. Under the Biodiversity Convention indigenous peoples are afforded rights to their biodiversity - including medicinal plants. Indigenous people who live close to where fungus is applied may become innocent Drug War victims. GENETIC ENGINEERING POSSIBLE The United States says that the fungus varieties it wants to use in developing countries are not genetically-engineered. But its has created genetically-modified strains in the laboratory. US scientists have also cloned virulent genes from related fungi (Fusarium strains that attack potatoes) with the possible intent of increasing the kill rate of anti-drug fungi through biotechnology. A consequence of permitting testing and use of the current fungi will be future pressure for countries to allow "enhanced" Living modified organisms (LMOs) fungi. ACTION BY THE BIODIVERSITY CONVENTION IS URGENTLY NEEDED Governments have a legitimate need to control narcotic crops; but doing so through the use of "Agent Green" microbes is profoundly misguided and sets an alarming precedent. If governments are idle while microbial agents are developed to attack narcotic crops, how will they protect biodiversity if microbes are developed to kill other unpopular and regulated crops, like tobacco, kava, betel nut palm, peyote, ayahuasca, or hops? The Sunshine Project, which sent its report to 500 government delegates from 100 countries, is suggesting several options for government action during the May 15-26 Conference of the Parties to the UN Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD) in Nairobi. Delegates should adopt a resolution calling for a halt of the US program and condemning the of use of any microbe for the purpose of eradicating cultivated crops. Such a resolution is not a statement on drug policy; but instead a reiteration of fundamental objectives of the Convention. The CBD cannot remain quiet while agents are developed by a non-party to deliberately obliterate biodiversity, especially plants with legitimate medicinal and traditional uses. The CBD may also consider studying the fungus under its Agriculture Program, because of the fungi?s impacts on pollinators and soil diversity ? both specific responsibilities of the Convention. Governments may also request the CBD Executive Secretary to urgently convey the CBD?s views to the United National Drug Control Programme (UNDCP), which has been ? sometimes reluctantly ? helping implementation of the US program. About the Sunshine Project The Sunshine Project is an international non-profit organization dedicated to bringing information to light on harmful abuses of biotechnology. The Project has expert staff with training in law, policy, and biology with lengthy experience on policy issues. The Project has offices in Hamburg, Germany and Seattle, USA. For more information, visit our website (http://www.sunshine-project.org) or contact us by telephone or e-mail. A copy of the Sunshine Project?s report on Agent Green is available at our website or on request (tsp at sunshine-project.de). European and Science Media Dr. Jan Van Aken Hamburg, Germany van.aken at sunshine-project.org Tel: +49 40 431 88-001 The Americas and Asia, Political Media Susana Pimiento or Edward Hammond Seattle, USA ehammond at sunshine-project.org spimiento at sunshine-project.org Tel: +1 206 633 3718 From mazzeip at tin.it Tue May 2 17:22:30 2000 From: mazzeip at tin.it (Paolo Mazzei) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:22:30 +0100 Subject: Questions about butterflies Message-ID: <000001bfb47c$8741e410$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: "I am a teacher of 2nd grade. My students are very knowledgable about butterflies. They have many questions that they want to have answered. Would you be open to helping me with this? Some of their questions pertain to the history of butterfly study and may be a bit difficult to answer." and these are the questions: Hi, We are the kids from Room 16 at Lake Hills Elementary. Thank you for helping us find out more about butterflies. We have chosen some of our 34 questions about butterflies and are sending them to you for help. 1. What is the first butterfly ever discovered? 2. How do butterflies get their names and who names them? 3. What do scientists call butterflies? 4. When were butterflies first discovered? 5. Do butterflies swim? 6. What is the largest kind of butterfly in the world? 7. Are any butterflies endangered? 8. Why do butterflies die after they lay eggs? 9. How do we tell if a butterfly is a boy or a girl? 10. How do butterflies protest themselves? 11. How many poisonous butterflies are there? 12. Why are butterflies so small? 13. Why do butterflies have two sets of wings? 14. Do butterflies get sick? 15. Why are butterflies part of nature? 16. Do butterflies have to learn how to fly or do they just know? 17. How many kinds of butterflies are there in the world? 18. How come caterpillars are different from their mothers? 19. Why do butterflies have big eyes? 20. How do butterflies breath? 21. Do butterflies have other names? 22. If butterflies are endangered, what can we do to help save butterflies? Thank you for helping us with our questions. Sincerely, room 16 From Stelenes at aol.com Tue May 2 19:16:54 2000 From: Stelenes at aol.com (Stelenes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:16:54 EDT Subject: Questions about butterflies Message-ID: <63.50b1644.2640bbe6@aol.com> Esteemed Ms. Hammond, I hope you and the children of Rm. 16 enjoy studying butterflies. You can buy them a kit from Insect lore (like an ant farm, but almost no work and under $20) to show them Painted Lady butterflies go through their life cycle. Have fun. Doug Dawn Woodland, CA In a message dated 5/2/00 1:43:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mazzeip at tin.it writes: > Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, > mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: > > "I am a teacher of 2nd grade. My students are very knowledgable about > butterflies. They have many questions that they want to have answered. Would > you be open to helping me with this? Some of their questions pertain to the > history of butterfly study and may be a bit difficult to answer." > > and these are the questions: > > Hi, > We are the kids from Room 16 at Lake Hills Elementary. Thank you for > helping us find out more about butterflies. We have chosen some of our > 34 questions about butterflies and are sending them to you for help. > > 1. What is the first butterfly ever discovered? THAT IS A SECRET NO ONE CAN EVER KNOW SINCE IT WAS BEFORE RECORDED HISTORY. IF YOU WERE A CAVEMAN OR CAVEWOMAN, DO YOU THINK YOU WOULDN'T NOTICE A BUTTERFLY AS YOU TOOK A BATH IN A PEACEFUL LAKE SURROUNDED BY BUTTERFLIES? THE FIRST BUTTERFLIES NAMED SCIENTIFICALLY UNDER THE MODERN NAMES SYSTEM WERE IN 1758 AND THERE WERE MANY BUTTERFLIES DESCRIBED, INCLUDING 18 FROM THE UNITED STATES LIKE SWALLOWTAILS AND THE MONARCH. THE OLDEST MOTH FOSSIL EVER DISCOVERED IS 208 MILLION YEARS OLD FROM ENGLAND. I BET YOU ARE GOING TO WANT TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUTTERFLIES AND MOTHS NOW. WELL, MAYBE MS. HAMMOND WILL MAKE THAT EXTRA CREDIT! > > 2. How do butterflies get their names and who names them? A SCIENTIST DESCRIBES A BUTTERFLY HE FINDS (JUST LIKE ANY NEWLY "DISCOVERED" PLANT OR "BUTTERFLY." HE GETS TO NAME IT BECAUSE IF YOU ARE THE FIRST ONE TO CAREFULLY UNDERSTAND AND SHARE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN A BOOK OR MAGAZINE, YOUR REWARD IS GETTING TO NAME IT AFTER ALMOST ANYTHING YOU WANT. > > 3. What do scientists call butterflies? THEY CALL THESE INSECTS LEPIDOPTERANS, OR LEPS FOR SHORT. SINCE LEPS INCLUDE MOTHS AS WELL, SOME SCIENTISTS SEPARATE THE MOTHS FROM THE BUTTERFLIES AND CALL THE BUTTERFLIES ALONE "RHOPALOCERA" > > 4. When were butterflies first discovered? SEE NUMBER #1. THE FIRST BUTTERFLIES AND MOTH-LIKE INSECTS FLEW WITH THE DINOSAURS ABOUT 100 MILLION YEARS AGO. THE OLDEST FOSSIL WE HAVE FOUND IN THE WHOLE WORLD IS ABOUT 48 MILLION YEARS OLD FROM COLORADO. > > 5. Do butterflies swim? NONE THAT I KNOW OF. KINDA HARD ON THE WINGS. EVEN WHEN IT RAINS A WET BUTTERFLY HAS A HARDER TIME GETTING AWAY WITH ALL THE WATER ON ITS FRAGILE WINGS WHICH MIGHT WEIGH AS MUCH AS A WHOLE 'NOTHER BUTTERFLY. > > 6. What is the largest kind of butterfly in the world? THAT DEPENDS. THE LARGEST WINGSPANS ARE ON THE BIRDWING BUTTERFLIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA. THE WING THAT WOULD NEED THE MOST PAINT TO COVER THE SURFACE OF ALL OF IT, EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT AS LONG AS THE BIRDWINGS HAS BEEN SAID TO BE MORPHO HECUBA, A SHOWY SOUTH AMERICAN BUTTERFLY. > > 7. Are any butterflies endangered? YES, MANY ARE ENDANGERED OR REALLY VULNERABLE. IN THE UNITED STATES ABOUT 25 DIFFERENT KINDS OF BUTTERFLIES ARE KNOWN TO BE THREATENED. > > 8. Why do butterflies die after they lay eggs? BUTTERFLIES DON'T NECESSARILY DIE AFTER LAYING EGGS. SOME BUTTERFLIES LIKE THE ZEBRA IN THE SOUTHERN US CAN LIVE FOR 9 MONTHS AND THE LADY BUTTERFLIES CAN LAY EGGS FOR MOST OF THEIR LIVES. OF COURSE, AFTER THE BUTTERFLY LAYS ALL THE EGGS SHE CAN, IT IS TIME TO LET THE NEXT GENERATION HAVE THE NECTAR FROM THE FLOWERS. IF SHE STAYED AROUND FOREVER, THEIR WOULDN'T ALWAYS BE ENOUGH NECTAR FOR EVERYONE, SO LIKE EVERYONE, SHE PASSES ON AFTER HAVING HAD A VERY SATISFYING LIFE. > > 9. How do we tell if a butterfly is a boy or a girl? THE EASIEST WAY IS TO WATCH IT TO SEE IF IT LAYS EGGS. IF YOU HAVE TO GO TO SCHOOL OR CAN'T RUN SO FAST, SOME BUTTERFLIES LIKE MONARCHS HAVE BLACK SPOTS ON THEIR WINGS IF THEY ARE BOYS (THESE MAKE A COLOGNE TO ATTRACT THE GIRL BUTTERFLIES) > > 10. How do butterflies protest themselves? BY FLYING VERY VERY FAST! OR BY EATING POISONOUS PLANTS TO PREDATORS THAT MAKE THEM TASTE BAD WHEN THEY ARE ADULTS WITH WINGS. OTHERS LOOK LIKE POISONOUS BUTTERFLIES AND ARE PROTECTED BECAUSE PREDATORS ARE SCARED TO MESS WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE THE POISONOUS ONES WHICH MAKE THEM THROW UP. > > 11. How many poisonous butterflies are there? THERE ARE NO POISONOUS BUTTERFLIES UNLESS YOU MEAN POISONOUS IF YOU WANT TO EAT THESE BEAUTIFUL BUGS. AND JUST REMEMBER WHAT IS POISONOUS TO A BIRD MAY BE FINE TO EAT FOR A SPIDER. MAYBE 2% OF THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF BUTTERFLIES WILL GIVE HUNGRY PREDATORS A STOMACH ACHE OR MAKE THEM FEEL BAD. IN WASHINGTON STATE, THAT INCLUDED THE MONARCH, AND HERE IN CALIFORNIA, IT INCLUDES THE PIPEVINE SWALLOWTAIL. SO IN THE WORLD, MAYBE THERE ARE 400 "POISONOUS" BUTTERFLIES THAT GROW UP AS CATERPILLARS EATING THINGS LIKE MILKWEED AND PIPEVINE WHICH MAKE THEM POISONOUS > > 12. Why are butterflies so small? SMALL? I THINK ANTS ARE SMALL. IF YOU PUT A SWALLOWTAIL NEAR AN ANT, THE ANT MIGHT THINK IT WAS A GIGANTIC BEAUTIFUL DRAGON. THAT IS IF ANTS CAN THINK THAT HARD. BUT SINCE BUTTERFLIES LIVE LESS THAN A YEAR (UNLESS THEY HIBERNATE), THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO GET AS BIG AS SECOND GRADERS THAT HAVE HEALTHY APPETITES FOR SEVEN WHOLE YEARS. ACTUALLY BUTTERFLIES BASICALLY GROW ONLY WHEN THEY ARE CATERPILLARS, EATING WITHOUT STOPPING EXCEPT TO REST. WHEN THEY TURN INTO WINGED BUTTERFLIES, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE JAWS ANY MORE. THEY JUST HAVE A COILED UP TONGUE-THING (PROBOSCIS) THAT LOOKS LIKE A STRAW, WHICH PULLS NECTAR FROM FLOWERS OR OTHER PLACES LIKE THE WICK OF A CANDLE PULLS WAX TO KEEP BURNING. THE TONGUE-THING LOOKS LIKE A PARTY WHISTLER, THE KIND THAT YOU CAN SCARE YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW WITH BY BLOWING IN IT AND UNCOILING IT TO WHISTLE. > > 13. Why do butterflies have two sets of wings? FOR THE SAME REASON CARS HAVE TWO SETS OF WHEELS AND AIRPLANES HAVE TAILS AND AILERONS. THIS ALLOWS THEM TO STEER. ALSO IT ALLOWS THEM TO NOT HAVE SUCH BIG WINGS WHEN THEY WANT TO HIDE, SINCE THEY CAN'T FOLD THEIR WINGS. > > 14. Do butterflies get sick? YES, THEY CAN GET INFECTIONS FROM BACTERIA AND VIRUSES JUST LIKE ALL CREATURES. THEY ESPECIALLY GET SICK WHEN THEY ARE CATERPILLARS AND PUTTING LOTS OF THINGS IN THEIR MOUTHS AND SOMETIMES CAN'T ESCAPE DIRTY PLACES TO TAKE A BATH. > > 15. Why are butterflies part of nature? THEY POLLINATE FLOWERS TO HELP THE FLOWERS MAKE MORE FLOWERS. THEY ALSO HELP CONTROL THE PLANTS THEY EAT SO THE PLANTS DON'T TAKE OVER, BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN NATURE HAS TO BE CONTROLLED TO STAY HEALTHY AND MAKE IT STRONG. > > 16. Do butterflies have to learn how to fly or do they just know? THEY PROBABLY JUST KNOW. I GUESS THEY ARE MADE WITH MUSCLES IN THEIR CHEST (THORAX) WHICH ONLY MOVE ONE WAY. THEY MIGHT BE SCARED WHEN THEY FIRST COME OUT OF THEIR CHRYSALIS SO THEY PROBABLY TWITCH THEIR MUSCLES AND DISCOVER THEIR WINGS. THEN THEY GET BETTER THE MORE THEY FLY. > > 17. How many kinds of butterflies are there in the world? THE SCIENTISTS SAY ALMOST 20,000 HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT, SO THAT IS HOW MANY WE THINK THERE ARE. NEW ONES ARE STILL BEING FOUND, BUT IT IS GETTING LESS COMMON NOW THAT THE NAMING PARTY IS OVER AND ALMOST ALL HAVE SCIENTIFIC NAMES. > > 18. How come caterpillars are different from their mothers? CATERPILLARS ARE NOT DIFFERENT FROM THEIR MOMS. THEY ARE JUST BABIES. THEIR MOM WAS A CATERPILLAR ONCE TOO. > > 19. Why do butterflies have big eyes? A BUTTERFLY IS LIKE AN AIRPLANE AND PILOT ALL IN ONE. IT NEEDS TO HAVE GOOD VIEWS OF WHERE IT IS GOING SO ITS EYES HAVE TO GIVE IT THE ABILITY TO SEE THE SIDES AND FRONT AT THE SAME TIME. REALLY, LIKE OTHER INSECTS, THEIR EYES ARE REALLY MADE OF LOTS OF LITTLE MINIEYES ALL WORKING TOGETHER. > > 20. How do butterflies breath? BECAUSE THEY ARE SO SMALL, THEY HAVE LITTLE EMPTY SACS WHICH THEY AND USE THERE MUSCLES TO FILL AND LET OUT AIR LIKE A BALLOON. THE SACS ARE CONNECTED TO A WHOLE BUNCH OF HOLLOW VEINS WHICH END IN LITTLE HOLES ALL OVER THE BUTTERFLY'S BODY. THE BUTTERFLY CAN MAKE THE AIR GO IN AND OUT, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS FLYING IT CAN GET EVEN MORE SO IT IS NEVER OUT OF BREATH. > > 21. Do butterflies have other names? EVERY LANGUAGE HAS A NAME FOR A BUTTERFLY. IN FRENCH IT IS PAPILLON AND IN AZTEC INDIAN IT IS PAPALOTL. SOME POETS CALL THEM "FLOWERS OF THE AIR" SINCE THEY LOOK LIKE FLYING FLOWERS. AND OF COURSE, EACH KIND OF BUTTERFLY HAS A NAME GIVEN TO IT BY SCIENTISTS (IT IS JUST SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE OF THESE), AND MANY COMMON NAMES. YOU CAN MAKE A COMMON NAME FOR BUTTERFLIES IF YOU WANT AND DISCOVER THE FUN OF NAMING YOURSELF! > > 22. If butterflies are endangered, what can we do to help save > butterflies? WE REALLY CAN HELP BUTTERFLIES. FIRST, WE SHOULD FIND OUT WHICH ONES ARE ORIGINALLY FROM THE AREA WHERE WE LIVE SINCE WE ARE SHARING THE BUTTERFLIES HOME WITH THOSE ESPECIALLY. PEOPLE LIKE US CLEAR FIELDS TO MAKE ROOM TO LIVE AND SHOP AND DRIVE AND PLAY. BUT WHEN WE DO THIS, WE DON'T ALWAYS THINK ABOUT ALL THE BEAUTIFUL LITTLE FLOWERS OF THE ARE THAT LIVE THERE. WE SOMETIMES THROW AWAY THE PLANTS THE BUTTERFLY BABIES (CATERPILLARS) ARE EATING AND THE POOR BABIES DRY UP AND DIE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T RUN TO A NEW PLACE BECAUSE THEY MOVE SLOW AND ARE SMALL AND THE WHOLE WORLD IS A DANGEROUS PLACE FOR THEM. SO FIND OUT WHAT BUTTERFLIES LIKE TO EAT AND PLANT IT FOR THEM! THEN THEY WILL COME IF YOU ARE CAREFUL AND PAY LOTS OF ATTENTION TO MAKING THEM HAPPY, ESPECIALLY IF YOU CAN GET HELP FROM A GROWN-UP. TELL THE BIG PEOPLE AROUND YOU NOT TO MOW THE PART OF THE BACK YARD, OR AN EMPTY FIELD. AND WHATEVER YOU DO TELL THEM NOT TO SPRAY BUG KILLERS ANYWHERE AT ALL, BECAUSE IT IS POISON TO THE BUTTERFLIES AND KILLS THEM DEAD AND THEY GO TO HEAVEN BUT NEVER COME BACK TO PLAY WITH YOU. > > Thank you for helping us with our questions. IT WAS A PLEASURE. I GOT HELP WITH THE QUESTIONS ON FOSSILS I DID NOT KNOW FROM THIS BOOK: EMMEL, TOM, MINNO, MARC AND BOYCE DRUMMOND, FLORISSANT BUTTERFLIES, STANFORD UNIV. PRESS., 1992 > > Sincerely, > > room 16 From Stelenes at aol.com Tue May 2 19:22:37 2000 From: Stelenes at aol.com (Stelenes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:22:37 EDT Subject: Questions about butterflies Message-ID: > 1. What is the first butterfly ever discovered? THAT IS A SECRET NO ONE CAN EVER KNOW SINCE IT WAS BEFORE RECORDED HISTORY. IF YOU WERE A CAVEMAN OR CAVEWOMAN, DO YOU THINK YOU WOULDN'T NOTICE A BUTTERFLY AS YOU TOOK A BATH IN A PEACEFUL LAKE SURROUNDED BY BUTTERFLIES? THE FIRST BUTTERFLIES NAMED SCIENTIFICALLY UNDER THE MODERN NAMES SYSTEM WERE IN 1758 AND THERE WERE MANY BUTTERFLIES DESCRIBED, INCLUDING 18 FROM THE UNITED STATES LIKE SWALLOWTAILS AND THE MONARCH. THE OLDEST MOTH FOSSIL EVER DISCOVERED IS 208 MILLION YEARS OLD FROM ENGLAND. I BET YOU ARE GOING TO WANT TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUTTERFLIES AND MOTHS NOW. WELL, MAYBE MS. HAMMOND WILL MAKE THAT EXTRA CREDIT! > > 2. How do butterflies get their names and who names them? A SCIENTIST DESCRIBES A BUTTERFLY HE FINDS (JUST LIKE ANY NEWLY "DISCOVERED" PLANT OR "BUTTERFLY." HE GETS TO NAME IT BECAUSE IF YOU ARE THE FIRST ONE TO CAREFULLY UNDERSTAND AND SHARE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN A BOOK OR MAGAZINE, YOUR REWARD IS GETTING TO NAME IT AFTER ALMOST ANYTHING YOU WANT. > > 3. What do scientists call butterflies? THEY CALL THESE INSECTS LEPIDOPTERANS, OR LEPS FOR SHORT. SINCE LEPS INCLUDE MOTHS AS WELL, SOME SCIENTISTS SEPARATE THE MOTHS FROM THE BUTTERFLIES AND CALL THE BUTTERFLIES ALONE "RHOPALOCERA" > > 4. When were butterflies first discovered? SEE NUMBER #1. THE FIRST BUTTERFLIES AND MOTH-LIKE INSECTS FLEW WITH THE DINOSAURS ABOUT 100 MILLION YEARS AGO. THE OLDEST FOSSIL WE HAVE FOUND IN THE WHOLE WORLD IS ABOUT 48 MILLION YEARS OLD FROM COLORADO. > > 5. Do butterflies swim? NONE THAT I KNOW OF. KINDA HARD ON THE WINGS. EVEN WHEN IT RAINS A WET BUTTERFLY HAS A HARDER TIME GETTING AWAY WITH ALL THE WATER ON ITS FRAGILE WINGS WHICH MIGHT WEIGH AS MUCH AS A WHOLE 'NOTHER BUTTERFLY. > > 6. What is the largest kind of butterfly in the world? THAT DEPENDS. THE LARGEST WINGSPANS ARE ON THE BIRDWING BUTTERFLIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA. THE WING THAT WOULD NEED THE MOST PAINT TO COVER THE SURFACE OF ALL OF IT, EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT AS LONG AS THE BIRDWINGS HAS BEEN SAID TO BE MORPHO HECUBA, A SHOWY SOUTH AMERICAN BUTTERFLY. > > 7. Are any butterflies endangered? YES, MANY ARE ENDANGERED OR REALLY VULNERABLE. IN THE UNITED STATES ABOUT 25 DIFFERENT KINDS OF BUTTERFLIES ARE KNOWN TO BE THREATENED. > > 8. Why do butterflies die after they lay eggs? BUTTERFLIES DON'T NECESSARILY DIE AFTER LAYING EGGS. SOME BUTTERFLIES LIKE THE ZEBRA IN THE SOUTHERN US CAN LIVE FOR 9 MONTHS AND THE LADY BUTTERFLIES CAN LAY EGGS FOR MOST OF THEIR LIVES. OF COURSE, AFTER THE BUTTERFLY LAYS ALL THE EGGS SHE CAN, IT IS TIME TO LET THE NEXT GENERATION HAVE THE NECTAR FROM THE FLOWERS. IF SHE STAYED AROUND FOREVER, THEIR WOULDN'T ALWAYS BE ENOUGH NECTAR FOR EVERYONE, SO LIKE EVERYONE, SHE PASSES ON AFTER HAVING HAD A VERY SATISFYING LIFE. > > 9. How do we tell if a butterfly is a boy or a girl? THE EASIEST WAY IS TO WATCH IT TO SEE IF IT LAYS EGGS. IF YOU HAVE TO GO TO SCHOOL OR CAN'T RUN SO FAST, SOME BUTTERFLIES LIKE MONARCHS HAVE BLACK SPOTS ON THEIR WINGS IF THEY ARE BOYS (THESE MAKE A COLOGNE TO ATTRACT THE GIRL BUTTERFLIES) > > 10. How do butterflies protest themselves? BY FLYING VERY VERY FAST! OR BY EATING POISONOUS PLANTS TO PREDATORS THAT MAKE THEM TASTE BAD WHEN THEY ARE ADULTS WITH WINGS. OTHERS LOOK LIKE POISONOUS BUTTERFLIES AND ARE PROTECTED BECAUSE PREDATORS ARE SCARED TO MESS WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE THE POISONOUS ONES WHICH MAKE THEM THROW UP. > > 11. How many poisonous butterflies are there? THERE ARE NO POISONOUS BUTTERFLIES UNLESS YOU MEAN POISONOUS IF YOU WANT TO EAT THESE BEAUTIFUL BUGS. AND JUST REMEMBER WHAT IS POISONOUS TO A BIRD MAY BE FINE TO EAT FOR A SPIDER. MAYBE 2% OF THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF BUTTERFLIES WILL GIVE HUNGRY PREDATORS A STOMACH ACHE OR MAKE THEM FEEL BAD. IN WASHINGTON STATE, THAT INCLUDED THE MONARCH, AND HERE IN CALIFORNIA, IT INCLUDES THE PIPEVINE SWALLOWTAIL. SO IN THE WORLD, MAYBE THERE ARE 400 "POISONOUS" BUTTERFLIES THAT GROW UP AS CATERPILLARS EATING THINGS LIKE MILKWEED AND PIPEVINE WHICH MAKE THEM POISONOUS > > 12. Why are butterflies so small? SMALL? I THINK ANTS ARE SMALL. IF YOU PUT A SWALLOWTAIL NEAR AN ANT, THE ANT MIGHT THINK IT WAS A GIGANTIC BEAUTIFUL DRAGON. THAT IS IF ANTS CAN THINK THAT HARD. BUT SINCE BUTTERFLIES LIVE LESS THAN A YEAR (UNLESS THEY HIBERNATE), THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO GET AS BIG AS SECOND GRADERS THAT HAVE HEALTHY APPETITES FOR SEVEN WHOLE YEARS. ACTUALLY BUTTERFLIES BASICALLY GROW ONLY WHEN THEY ARE CATERPILLARS, EATING WITHOUT STOPPING EXCEPT TO REST. WHEN THEY TURN INTO WINGED BUTTERFLIES, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE JAWS ANY MORE. THEY JUST HAVE A COILED UP TONGUE-THING (PROBOSCIS) THAT LOOKS LIKE A STRAW, WHICH PULLS NECTAR FROM FLOWERS OR OTHER PLACES LIKE THE WICK OF A CANDLE PULLS WAX TO KEEP BURNING. THE TONGUE-THING LOOKS LIKE A PARTY WHISTLER, THE KIND THAT YOU CAN SCARE YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW WITH BY BLOWING IN IT AND UNCOILING IT TO WHISTLE. > > 13. Why do butterflies have two sets of wings? FOR THE SAME REASON CARS HAVE TWO SETS OF WHEELS AND AIRPLANES HAVE TAILS AND AILERONS. THIS ALLOWS THEM TO STEER. ALSO IT ALLOWS THEM TO NOT HAVE SUCH BIG WINGS WHEN THEY WANT TO HIDE, SINCE THEY CAN'T FOLD THEIR WINGS. > > 14. Do butterflies get sick? YES, THEY CAN GET INFECTIONS FROM BACTERIA AND VIRUSES JUST LIKE ALL CREATURES. THEY ESPECIALLY GET SICK WHEN THEY ARE CATERPILLARS AND PUTTING LOTS OF THINGS IN THEIR MOUTHS AND SOMETIMES CAN'T ESCAPE DIRTY PLACES TO TAKE A BATH. > > 15. Why are butterflies part of nature? THEY POLLINATE FLOWERS TO HELP THE FLOWERS MAKE MORE FLOWERS. THEY ALSO HELP CONTROL THE PLANTS THEY EAT SO THE PLANTS DON'T TAKE OVER, BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN NATURE HAS TO BE CONTROLLED TO STAY HEALTHY AND MAKE IT STRONG. > > 16. Do butterflies have to learn how to fly or do they just know? THEY PROBABLY JUST KNOW. I GUESS THEY ARE MADE WITH MUSCLES IN THEIR CHEST (THORAX) WHICH ONLY MOVE ONE WAY. THEY MIGHT BE SCARED WHEN THEY FIRST COME OUT OF THEIR CHRYSALIS SO THEY PROBABLY TWITCH THEIR MUSCLES AND DISCOVER THEIR WINGS. THEN THEY GET BETTER THE MORE THEY FLY. > > 17. How many kinds of butterflies are there in the world? THE SCIENTISTS SAY ALMOST 20,000 HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT, SO THAT IS HOW MANY WE THINK THERE ARE. NEW ONES ARE STILL BEING FOUND, BUT IT IS GETTING LESS COMMON NOW THAT THE NAMING PARTY IS OVER AND ALMOST ALL HAVE SCIENTIFIC NAMES. > > 18. How come caterpillars are different from their mothers? CATERPILLARS ARE NOT DIFFERENT FROM THEIR MOMS. THEY ARE JUST BABIES. THEIR MOM WAS A CATERPILLAR ONCE TOO. > > 19. Why do butterflies have big eyes? A BUTTERFLY IS LIKE AN AIRPLANE AND PILOT ALL IN ONE. IT NEEDS TO HAVE GOOD VIEWS OF WHERE IT IS GOING SO ITS EYES HAVE TO GIVE IT THE ABILITY TO SEE THE SIDES AND FRONT AT THE SAME TIME. REALLY, LIKE OTHER INSECTS, THEIR EYES ARE REALLY MADE OF LOTS OF LITTLE MINIEYES ALL WORKING TOGETHER. > > 20. How do butterflies breath? BECAUSE THEY ARE SO SMALL, THEY HAVE LITTLE EMPTY SACS WHICH THEY AND USE THERE MUSCLES TO FILL AND LET OUT AIR LIKE A BALLOON. THE SACS ARE CONNECTED TO A WHOLE BUNCH OF HOLLOW VEINS WHICH END IN LITTLE HOLES ALL OVER THE BUTTERFLY'S BODY. THE BUTTERFLY CAN MAKE THE AIR GO IN AND OUT, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS FLYING IT CAN GET EVEN MORE SO IT IS NEVER OUT OF BREATH. > > 21. Do butterflies have other names? EVERY LANGUAGE HAS A NAME FOR A BUTTERFLY. IN FRENCH IT IS PAPILLON AND IN AZTEC INDIAN IT IS PAPALOTL. SOME POETS CALL THEM "FLOWERS OF THE AIR" SINCE THEY LOOK LIKE FLYING FLOWERS. AND OF COURSE, EACH KIND OF BUTTERFLY HAS A NAME GIVEN TO IT BY SCIENTISTS (IT IS JUST SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE OF THESE), AND MANY COMMON NAMES. YOU CAN MAKE A COMMON NAME FOR BUTTERFLIES IF YOU WANT AND DISCOVER THE FUN OF NAMING YOURSELF! > > 22. If butterflies are endangered, what can we do to help save > butterflies? WE REALLY CAN HELP BUTTERFLIES. FIRST, WE SHOULD FIND OUT WHICH ONES ARE ORIGINALLY FROM THE AREA WHERE WE LIVE SINCE WE ARE SHARING THE BUTTERFLIES HOME WITH THOSE ESPECIALLY. PEOPLE LIKE US CLEAR FIELDS TO MAKE ROOM TO LIVE AND SHOP AND DRIVE AND PLAY. BUT WHEN WE DO THIS, WE DON'T ALWAYS THINK ABOUT ALL THE BEAUTIFUL LITTLE FLOWERS OF THE ARE THAT LIVE THERE. WE SOMETIMES THROW AWAY THE PLANTS THE BUTTERFLY BABIES (CATERPILLARS) ARE EATING AND THE POOR BABIES DRY UP AND DIE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T RUN TO A NEW PLACE BECAUSE THEY MOVE SLOW AND ARE SMALL AND THE WHOLE WORLD IS A DANGEROUS PLACE FOR THEM. SO FIND OUT WHAT BUTTERFLIES LIKE TO EAT AND PLANT IT FOR THEM! THEN THEY WILL COME IF YOU ARE CAREFUL AND PAY LOTS OF ATTENTION TO MAKING THEM HAPPY, ESPECIALLY IF YOU CAN GET HELP FROM A GROWN-UP. TELL THE BIG PEOPLE AROUND YOU NOT TO MOW THE PART OF THE BACK YARD, OR AN EMPTY FIELD. AND WHATEVER YOU DO TELL THEM NOT TO SPRAY BUG KILLERS ANYWHERE AT ALL, BECAUSE IT IS POISON TO THE BUTTERFLIES AND KILLS THEM DEAD AND THEY GO TO HEAVEN BUT NEVER COME BACK TO PLAY WITH YOU. > > Thank you for helping us with our questions. IT WAS A PLEASURE. I GOT HELP WITH THE QUESTIONS ON FOSSILS I DID NOT KNOW FROM THIS BOOK: EMMEL, TOM, MINNO, MARC AND BOYCE DRUMMOND, FLORISSANT BUTTERFLIES, STANFORD UNIV. PRESS., 1992 > > Sincerely, > > room 16 From jhimmel at connix.com Tue May 2 19:59:19 2000 From: jhimmel at connix.com (JH) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:59:19 -0400 Subject: Questions about butterflies Message-ID: <000e01bfb492$6fa6f1e0$bb63f6cd@pjhimmel> 5. Do butterflies swim? NONE THAT I KNOW OF. KINDA HARD ON THE WINGS. EVEN WHEN IT RAINS A WET BUTTERFLY HAS A HARDER TIME GETTING AWAY WITH ALL THE WATER ON ITS FRAGILE WINGS WHICH MIGHT WEIGH AS MUCH AS A WHOLE 'NOTHER BUTTERFLY. Actually, Monarchs have been known to rest, briefly, on top of water during migration. They can only stay for a very short time as they need to fly before their wings get waterlogged. John ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: John Himmelman Killingworth, CT USA jhimmel at connix.com ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/booksandnature.html http://homepage.av.com/ctamphibians/ctamphibians.html Info on Trinidad & Tobago Tour, 10/00: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/SA.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -----Original Message----- From: Stelenes at aol.com To: Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com ; mazzeip at tin.it ; leps-l at lists.yale.edu Date: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 7:32 PM Subject: Re: Questions about butterflies >> 1. What is the first butterfly ever discovered? > >THAT IS A SECRET NO ONE CAN EVER KNOW SINCE IT WAS BEFORE RECORDED HISTORY. >IF YOU WERE A CAVEMAN OR CAVEWOMAN, DO YOU THINK YOU WOULDN'T NOTICE A >BUTTERFLY AS YOU TOOK A BATH IN A PEACEFUL LAKE SURROUNDED BY BUTTERFLIES? > >THE FIRST BUTTERFLIES NAMED SCIENTIFICALLY UNDER THE MODERN NAMES SYSTEM WERE >IN 1758 AND THERE WERE MANY BUTTERFLIES DESCRIBED, INCLUDING 18 FROM THE >UNITED STATES LIKE SWALLOWTAILS AND THE MONARCH. > >THE OLDEST MOTH FOSSIL EVER DISCOVERED IS 208 MILLION YEARS OLD FROM ENGLAND. > I BET YOU ARE GOING TO WANT TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUTTERFLIES AND >MOTHS NOW. WELL, MAYBE MS. HAMMOND WILL MAKE THAT EXTRA CREDIT! >> >> 2. How do butterflies get their names and who names them? >A SCIENTIST DESCRIBES A BUTTERFLY HE FINDS (JUST LIKE ANY NEWLY "DISCOVERED" >PLANT OR "BUTTERFLY." HE GETS TO NAME IT BECAUSE IF YOU ARE THE FIRST ONE TO >CAREFULLY UNDERSTAND AND SHARE WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN A BOOK OR MAGAZINE, YOUR >REWARD IS GETTING TO NAME IT AFTER ALMOST ANYTHING YOU WANT. >> >> 3. What do scientists call butterflies? > >THEY CALL THESE INSECTS LEPIDOPTERANS, OR LEPS FOR SHORT. SINCE LEPS INCLUDE >MOTHS AS WELL, SOME SCIENTISTS SEPARATE THE MOTHS FROM THE BUTTERFLIES AND >CALL THE BUTTERFLIES ALONE "RHOPALOCERA" >> >> 4. When were butterflies first discovered? > >SEE NUMBER #1. THE FIRST BUTTERFLIES AND MOTH-LIKE INSECTS FLEW WITH THE >DINOSAURS ABOUT 100 MILLION YEARS AGO. THE OLDEST FOSSIL WE HAVE FOUND IN >THE WHOLE WORLD IS ABOUT 48 MILLION YEARS OLD FROM COLORADO. >> >> 5. Do butterflies swim? > >NONE THAT I KNOW OF. KINDA HARD ON THE WINGS. EVEN WHEN IT RAINS A WET >BUTTERFLY HAS A HARDER TIME GETTING AWAY WITH ALL THE WATER ON ITS FRAGILE >WINGS WHICH MIGHT WEIGH AS MUCH AS A WHOLE 'NOTHER BUTTERFLY. >> >> 6. What is the largest kind of butterfly in the world? >THAT DEPENDS. THE LARGEST WINGSPANS ARE ON THE BIRDWING BUTTERFLIES IN >SOUTHEAST ASIA. THE WING THAT WOULD NEED THE MOST PAINT TO COVER THE SURFACE >OF ALL OF IT, EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT AS LONG AS THE BIRDWINGS HAS BEEN SAID TO >BE MORPHO HECUBA, A SHOWY SOUTH AMERICAN BUTTERFLY. >> >> 7. Are any butterflies endangered? > >YES, MANY ARE ENDANGERED OR REALLY VULNERABLE. IN THE UNITED STATES ABOUT 25 >DIFFERENT KINDS OF BUTTERFLIES ARE KNOWN TO BE THREATENED. > >> >> 8. Why do butterflies die after they lay eggs? > >BUTTERFLIES DON'T NECESSARILY DIE AFTER LAYING EGGS. SOME BUTTERFLIES LIKE >THE ZEBRA IN THE SOUTHERN US CAN LIVE FOR 9 MONTHS AND THE LADY BUTTERFLIES >CAN LAY EGGS FOR MOST OF THEIR LIVES. OF COURSE, AFTER THE BUTTERFLY LAYS >ALL THE EGGS SHE CAN, IT IS TIME TO LET THE NEXT GENERATION HAVE THE NECTAR >FROM THE FLOWERS. IF SHE STAYED AROUND FOREVER, THEIR WOULDN'T ALWAYS BE >ENOUGH NECTAR FOR EVERYONE, SO LIKE EVERYONE, SHE PASSES ON AFTER HAVING HAD >A VERY SATISFYING LIFE. >> >> 9. How do we tell if a butterfly is a boy or a girl? >THE EASIEST WAY IS TO WATCH IT TO SEE IF IT LAYS EGGS. IF YOU HAVE TO GO TO >SCHOOL OR CAN'T RUN SO FAST, SOME BUTTERFLIES LIKE MONARCHS HAVE BLACK SPOTS >ON THEIR WINGS IF THEY ARE BOYS (THESE MAKE A COLOGNE TO ATTRACT THE GIRL >BUTTERFLIES) >> >> 10. How do butterflies protest themselves? > >BY FLYING VERY VERY FAST! OR BY EATING POISONOUS PLANTS TO PREDATORS THAT >MAKE THEM TASTE BAD WHEN THEY ARE ADULTS WITH WINGS. OTHERS LOOK LIKE >POISONOUS BUTTERFLIES AND ARE PROTECTED BECAUSE PREDATORS ARE SCARED TO MESS >WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE THE POISONOUS ONES WHICH MAKE THEM THROW UP. >> >> 11. How many poisonous butterflies are there? > >THERE ARE NO POISONOUS BUTTERFLIES UNLESS YOU MEAN POISONOUS IF YOU WANT TO >EAT THESE BEAUTIFUL BUGS. AND JUST REMEMBER WHAT IS POISONOUS TO A BIRD MAY >BE FINE TO EAT FOR A SPIDER. MAYBE 2% OF THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF BUTTERFLIES >WILL GIVE HUNGRY PREDATORS A STOMACH ACHE OR MAKE THEM FEEL BAD. IN >WASHINGTON STATE, THAT INCLUDED THE MONARCH, AND HERE IN CALIFORNIA, IT >INCLUDES THE PIPEVINE SWALLOWTAIL. SO IN THE WORLD, MAYBE THERE ARE 400 >"POISONOUS" BUTTERFLIES THAT GROW UP AS CATERPILLARS EATING THINGS LIKE >MILKWEED AND PIPEVINE WHICH MAKE THEM POISONOUS >> >> 12. Why are butterflies so small? >SMALL? I THINK ANTS ARE SMALL. IF YOU PUT A SWALLOWTAIL NEAR AN ANT, THE >ANT MIGHT THINK IT WAS A GIGANTIC BEAUTIFUL DRAGON. THAT IS IF ANTS CAN >THINK THAT HARD. BUT SINCE BUTTERFLIES LIVE LESS THAN A YEAR (UNLESS THEY >HIBERNATE), THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO GET AS BIG AS SECOND GRADERS THAT HAVE >HEALTHY APPETITES FOR SEVEN WHOLE YEARS. ACTUALLY BUTTERFLIES BASICALLY GROW >ONLY WHEN THEY ARE CATERPILLARS, EATING WITHOUT STOPPING EXCEPT TO REST. >WHEN THEY TURN INTO WINGED BUTTERFLIES, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE JAWS ANY MORE. >THEY JUST HAVE A COILED UP TONGUE-THING (PROBOSCIS) THAT LOOKS LIKE A STRAW, >WHICH PULLS NECTAR FROM FLOWERS OR OTHER PLACES LIKE THE WICK OF A CANDLE >PULLS WAX TO KEEP BURNING. THE TONGUE-THING LOOKS LIKE A PARTY WHISTLER, THE >KIND THAT YOU CAN SCARE YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW WITH BY BLOWING IN IT AND >UNCOILING IT TO WHISTLE. >> >> 13. Why do butterflies have two sets of wings? > >FOR THE SAME REASON CARS HAVE TWO SETS OF WHEELS AND AIRPLANES HAVE TAILS AND >AILERONS. THIS ALLOWS THEM TO STEER. ALSO IT ALLOWS THEM TO NOT HAVE SUCH >BIG WINGS WHEN THEY WANT TO HIDE, SINCE THEY CAN'T FOLD THEIR WINGS. >> >> 14. Do butterflies get sick? >YES, THEY CAN GET INFECTIONS FROM BACTERIA AND VIRUSES JUST LIKE ALL >CREATURES. THEY ESPECIALLY GET SICK WHEN THEY ARE CATERPILLARS AND PUTTING >LOTS OF THINGS IN THEIR MOUTHS AND SOMETIMES CAN'T ESCAPE DIRTY PLACES TO >TAKE A BATH. >> >> 15. Why are butterflies part of nature? >THEY POLLINATE FLOWERS TO HELP THE FLOWERS MAKE MORE FLOWERS. THEY ALSO HELP >CONTROL THE PLANTS THEY EAT SO THE PLANTS DON'T TAKE OVER, BECAUSE EVERYTHING >IN NATURE HAS TO BE CONTROLLED TO STAY HEALTHY AND MAKE IT STRONG. > >> >> 16. Do butterflies have to learn how to fly or do they just know? >THEY PROBABLY JUST KNOW. I GUESS THEY ARE MADE WITH MUSCLES IN THEIR CHEST >(THORAX) WHICH ONLY MOVE ONE WAY. THEY MIGHT BE SCARED WHEN THEY FIRST COME >OUT OF THEIR CHRYSALIS SO THEY PROBABLY TWITCH THEIR MUSCLES AND DISCOVER >THEIR WINGS. THEN THEY GET BETTER THE MORE THEY FLY. >> >> 17. How many kinds of butterflies are there in the world? > >THE SCIENTISTS SAY ALMOST 20,000 HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT, SO THAT IS HOW MANY >WE THINK THERE ARE. NEW ONES ARE STILL BEING FOUND, BUT IT IS GETTING LESS >COMMON NOW THAT THE NAMING PARTY IS OVER AND ALMOST ALL HAVE SCIENTIFIC NAMES. >> >> 18. How come caterpillars are different from their mothers? > >CATERPILLARS ARE NOT DIFFERENT FROM THEIR MOMS. THEY ARE JUST BABIES. THEIR >MOM WAS A CATERPILLAR ONCE TOO. >> >> 19. Why do butterflies have big eyes? >A BUTTERFLY IS LIKE AN AIRPLANE AND PILOT ALL IN ONE. IT NEEDS TO HAVE GOOD >VIEWS OF WHERE IT IS GOING SO ITS EYES HAVE TO GIVE IT THE ABILITY TO SEE THE >SIDES AND FRONT AT THE SAME TIME. REALLY, LIKE OTHER INSECTS, THEIR EYES ARE >REALLY MADE OF LOTS OF LITTLE MINIEYES ALL WORKING TOGETHER. > >> >> 20. How do butterflies breath? > >BECAUSE THEY ARE SO SMALL, THEY HAVE LITTLE EMPTY SACS WHICH THEY AND USE >THERE MUSCLES TO FILL AND LET OUT AIR LIKE A BALLOON. THE SACS ARE CONNECTED >TO A WHOLE BUNCH OF HOLLOW VEINS WHICH END IN LITTLE HOLES ALL OVER THE >BUTTERFLY'S BODY. THE BUTTERFLY CAN MAKE THE AIR GO IN AND OUT, ESPECIALLY >WHEN IT IS FLYING IT CAN GET EVEN MORE SO IT IS NEVER OUT OF BREATH. >> >> 21. Do butterflies have other names? >EVERY LANGUAGE HAS A NAME FOR A BUTTERFLY. IN FRENCH IT IS PAPILLON AND IN >AZTEC INDIAN IT IS PAPALOTL. SOME POETS CALL THEM "FLOWERS OF THE AIR" SINCE >THEY LOOK LIKE FLYING FLOWERS. AND OF COURSE, EACH KIND OF BUTTERFLY HAS A >NAME GIVEN TO IT BY SCIENTISTS (IT IS JUST SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE OF THESE), >AND MANY COMMON NAMES. YOU CAN MAKE A COMMON NAME FOR BUTTERFLIES IF YOU >WANT AND DISCOVER THE FUN OF NAMING YOURSELF! > >> >> 22. If butterflies are endangered, what can we do to help save >> butterflies? > >WE REALLY CAN HELP BUTTERFLIES. FIRST, WE SHOULD FIND OUT WHICH ONES ARE >ORIGINALLY FROM THE AREA WHERE WE LIVE SINCE WE ARE SHARING THE BUTTERFLIES >HOME WITH THOSE ESPECIALLY. PEOPLE LIKE US CLEAR FIELDS TO MAKE ROOM TO LIVE >AND SHOP AND DRIVE AND PLAY. BUT WHEN WE DO THIS, WE DON'T ALWAYS THINK >ABOUT ALL THE BEAUTIFUL LITTLE FLOWERS OF THE ARE THAT LIVE THERE. WE >SOMETIMES THROW AWAY THE PLANTS THE BUTTERFLY BABIES (CATERPILLARS) ARE >EATING AND THE POOR BABIES DRY UP AND DIE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T RUN TO A NEW >PLACE BECAUSE THEY MOVE SLOW AND ARE SMALL AND THE WHOLE WORLD IS A DANGEROUS >PLACE FOR THEM. > >SO FIND OUT WHAT BUTTERFLIES LIKE TO EAT AND PLANT IT FOR THEM! THEN THEY >WILL COME IF YOU ARE CAREFUL AND PAY LOTS OF ATTENTION TO MAKING THEM HAPPY, >ESPECIALLY IF YOU CAN GET HELP FROM A GROWN-UP. TELL THE BIG PEOPLE AROUND >YOU NOT TO MOW THE PART OF THE BACK YARD, OR AN EMPTY FIELD. AND WHATEVER >YOU DO TELL THEM NOT TO SPRAY BUG KILLERS ANYWHERE AT ALL, BECAUSE IT IS >POISON TO THE BUTTERFLIES AND KILLS THEM DEAD AND THEY GO TO HEAVEN BUT NEVER >COME BACK TO PLAY WITH YOU. > > >> >> Thank you for helping us with our questions. > >IT WAS A PLEASURE. I GOT HELP WITH THE QUESTIONS ON FOSSILS I DID NOT KNOW >FROM THIS BOOK: >EMMEL, TOM, MINNO, MARC AND BOYCE DRUMMOND, FLORISSANT BUTTERFLIES, STANFORD >UNIV. PRESS., 1992 > >> >> Sincerely, >> >> room 16 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000502/563f1ae9/attachment.html From ecosys at pacbell.net Tue May 2 22:38:18 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:38:18 -0700 Subject: Questions about butterflies References: <000001bfb47c$8741e410$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> Message-ID: <390F911A.46A605B3@pacbell.net> These are some good sites to help answer the children's questions about butterflies: Children's Butterfly Site: http://www.mesc.usgs.gov/butterfly/butterfly.html School Community Environment Program Butterflies and Moths - Lepido-links and Resources: http://www.arandaps.act.edu.au/environment/activity/humus/buttrfly/leplinks.htm Endangered Butterflies: http://www.edutrek.net/endangeredbutterflies.html Iowa State Entomology Index: K-12 Educators' Recommended Sites: http://www.ent.iastate.edu/list/k-12_educator_resources.html Paolo Mazzei wrote: > Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, > mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: > > "I am a teacher of 2nd grade. My students are very knowledgable about > butterflies. They have many questions that they want to have answered. Would > you be open to helping me with this? Some of their questions pertain to the > history of butterfly study and may be a bit difficult to answer." > > and these are the questions: > > Hi, > We are the kids from Room 16 at Lake Hills Elementary. Thank you for > helping us find out more about butterflies. We have chosen some of our > 34 questions about butterflies and are sending them to you for help. > > 1. What is the first butterfly ever discovered? > > 2. How do butterflies get their names and who names them? > > 3. What do scientists call butterflies? > > 4. When were butterflies first discovered? > > 5. Do butterflies swim? > > 6. What is the largest kind of butterfly in the world? > > 7. Are any butterflies endangered? > > 8. Why do butterflies die after they lay eggs? > > 9. How do we tell if a butterfly is a boy or a girl? > > 10. How do butterflies protest themselves? > > 11. How many poisonous butterflies are there? > > 12. Why are butterflies so small? > > 13. Why do butterflies have two sets of wings? > > 14. Do butterflies get sick? > > 15. Why are butterflies part of nature? > > 16. Do butterflies have to learn how to fly or do they just know? > > 17. How many kinds of butterflies are there in the world? > > 18. How come caterpillars are different from their mothers? > > 19. Why do butterflies have big eyes? > > 20. How do butterflies breath? > > 21. Do butterflies have other names? > > 22. If butterflies are endangered, what can we do to help save > butterflies? > > Thank you for helping us with our questions. > > Sincerely, > > room 16 From dont-look at evil.spam Tue May 2 23:26:11 2000 From: dont-look at evil.spam (ant) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:26:11 +1000 Subject: I thought that biological warfare was banned under the geneva convention References: Message-ID: Edward Hammond wrote in message ... >The Sunshine Project >Press Release >2 May 2000 >http://www.sunshine-project.org > > > *** Report Calls on the UN Biodiversity Convention *** > *** to Stop Dangerous US Fungus Experiments *** > > >(Hamburg & Seattle, 2 May 00) In a detailed report released today, the >Sunshine Project, a new international non-profit dedicated to exposing >abuses of biotechnology, calls on the upcoming Nairobi meeting of the UN >Biodiversity Convention to halt the USA?s dangerous experiments with >fungi designed to kill narcotic crops. > >TARGETED AT DEVELOPING COUNTRIES OF ASIA AND THE AMERICAS > so they will trample on their constitution, on the rights of sovereign nations, the anti biological warfare treaties. all burnt on the alter of a failed policy. the war on drugs was never what it appears to be, it was a means of subverting the American constitution and to impose a destructive and pro business agenda on the rest of the world. what right does America have to impose its moral standards on the rest of the world through force, and the Americans think that they are hated now by much of the world, if they go ahead with this it will unite many of Americas former allies against them, Europe and Australia have very strong anti American sentiments now, start spreading a biowarfare agent around the third world, what of Chinas hemp fiber crops and the cocoa plants that are used to make chocolate? hemp fiber plants are not illegal in most sane nations, yet the Americans are attempting to spread a biological agent that will destroy these crops. if America wants a war on drugs this might just give them one. they are threatening to impose economic sanctions against Australia if we continue down the path of drug law reform, there is strong public support in our country for a new approach. how dare America impose its moral standards on the rest of the world. there is no scientific basis for the current state of drug laws, if it was based on safety alcohol and tobacco would be banned and heroine and cannabis would be legalized. heroine was Australia's favorite over the counter pain killer until 1957 and the American pressure to ban the medically important substance became to much. if there was any doubt that America was an expansionist and imperialist state there is none now. at least the Chinese dont demand that the rest of the world obey their laws and moral standards under threat of biological warfare. From butterflies at value.net Wed May 3 01:32:09 2000 From: butterflies at value.net (Sharyn Fernandez) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Questions about butterflies Message-ID: Ms. Hammond, I echo contacting www.insectlore.com for more butterfly information . They also have curriculae (about 22 lessons) to do along with their butterfly rearing project.. it includes info on insects in general and the different types of metamorphosis. (see ages K-3) about $10 plus $40 for the kit of 33 (i;d suggest getting some hollyhock from your local nursery and putting the caterpillars on that; however, their "nutrient media vial system" is good (if you clean out the vials everyother day or so), but with plants you get to see how the caterpillars use their webs to keep out of their frass.. Sharyn Fernandez, Concord CA 37deg..57 min N; 121 deg, 52 min. W Butterflies & Botany From junee.apiaries at interact.net.au Wed May 3 04:51:48 2000 From: junee.apiaries at interact.net.au (Barry Metz) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:51:48 +1000 Subject: I thought that biological warfare was banned under the geneva convention References: , Message-ID: Why is this matter any different to the US use of immoral trade restrictions and barriers to keep the alleged level playing field tilted firmly in US Producers favour Perhaps this plan is to give US opium cannabis and cocaine producers the edge on the rest of the world ant wrote in message news:k5NP4.7356$PL4.247914 at ozemail.com.au... > > Edward Hammond wrote in message ... > >The Sunshine Project > >Press Release > >2 May 2000 > >http://www.sunshine-project.org > > > > > > *** Report Calls on the UN Biodiversity Convention *** > > *** to Stop Dangerous US Fungus Experiments *** > > > > > >(Hamburg & Seattle, 2 May 00) In a detailed report released today, the > >Sunshine Project, a new international non-profit dedicated to exposing > >abuses of biotechnology, calls on the upcoming Nairobi meeting of the UN > >Biodiversity Convention to halt the USA?s dangerous experiments with > >fungi designed to kill narcotic crops. > > > >TARGETED AT DEVELOPING COUNTRIES OF ASIA AND THE AMERICAS > > > > > > so they will trample on their constitution, on the rights of sovereign > nations, the anti biological warfare treaties. all burnt on the alter of a > failed policy. the war on drugs was never what it appears to be, it was a > means of subverting the American constitution and to impose a destructive > and pro business agenda on the rest of the world. what right does America > have to impose its moral standards on the rest of the world through force, > and the Americans think that they are hated now by much of the world, if > they go ahead with this it will unite many of Americas former allies > against them, Europe and Australia have very strong anti American > sentiments now, start spreading a biowarfare agent around the third world, > what of Chinas hemp fiber crops and the cocoa plants that are used to make > chocolate? hemp fiber plants are not illegal in most sane nations, yet the > Americans are attempting to spread a biological agent that will destroy > these crops. if America wants a war on drugs this might just give them one. > they are threatening to impose economic sanctions against Australia if we > continue down the path of drug law reform, there is strong public support > in our country for a new approach. how dare America impose its moral > standards on the rest of the world. there is no scientific basis for the > current state of drug laws, if it was based on safety alcohol and tobacco > would be banned and heroine and cannabis would be legalized. heroine was > Australia's favorite over the counter pain killer until 1957 and the > American pressure to ban the medically important substance became to much. > > if there was any doubt that America was an expansionist and imperialist > state there is none now. > at least the Chinese dont demand that the rest of the world obey their laws > and moral standards under threat of biological warfare. > > > > > From jrg13 at psu.edu Tue May 2 20:30:30 2000 From: jrg13 at psu.edu (John Grehan) Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:30:30 -0400 Subject: Questions about butterflies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000502201949.00aa6e40@email.psu.edu> > > > 13. Why do butterflies have two sets of wings? > >FOR THE SAME REASON CARS HAVE TWO SETS OF WHEELS AND AIRPLANES HAVE TAILS >AND AILERONS. THIS ALLOWS THEM TO STEER. ALSO IT ALLOWS THEM TO NOT HAVE >SUCH >BIG WINGS WHEN THEY WANT TO HIDE, SINCE THEY CAN'T FOLD THEIR WINGS. Both question and answer are problematic as the context for "why" is not obvious. The ability to steer is not limited to insects with two wings, but that ability also does not explain "why" they have two wings unless the ability to steer is considered the reason or purpose that the wings exist in the first place. > > 15. Why are butterflies part of nature? >THEY POLLINATE FLOWERS TO HELP THE FLOWERS MAKE MORE FLOWERS. THEY ALSO >HELP CONTROL THE PLANTS THEY EAT SO THE PLANTS DON'T TAKE OVER, BECAUSE >EVERYTHING >IN NATURE HAS TO BE CONTROLLED TO STAY HEALTHY AND MAKE IT STRONG. This is similarly problematic in that the question invokes a specific purpose for butterflies which is beyond empirical experience to provide. The fact that they pollinate flowers and eat plants does not address "why" butterflies are part of nature any more than it might explain any other organism. It seems to me that there is a mixing of "why" questions that deal with why the universe is the way it is, and the consequences thereof. Thus, the question might be rephrased to ask what are the functional or environmental interactions. John Grehan From jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu Wed May 3 11:06:06 2000 From: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu (Bruce Walsh) Date: 03 May 00 08:06:06 -0700 Subject: Free! Message-ID: <200005031503.IAA27708@trifid.u.arizona.edu> I have a very few (4-6) spare pupae of the large SE Lasiocampid moth Dicogaster coronada that I'll willing to send to a good home/collection. The individuals making the best case will be the winner! You can see the moth, and its life stages, on our SE Arizona moth webpage, under: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/mothlist.html#Lasiocampi dae" Dicogaster is species #4 under Subfamily Lasiocampinae Cheers Bruce From kerichers at wasco.k12.ca.us Wed May 3 13:15:32 2000 From: kerichers at wasco.k12.ca.us (Kelly Richers) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 10:15:32 -0700 Subject: Questions about butterflies Message-ID: John's answer would appear to be much closer to a scientific evaluation of the situation. One really gets into a nebulous area when asking "why" because the answers are going to be based on the human experience, which does not allow for empirical data over the time frame of butterfly evolution. There are many "why" answers after the condition is established, and there is no way to validate which was present to cause the condition under the circumstances it developed. >>> John Grehan 05/02/00 05:30PM >>> > > > 13. Why do butterflies have two sets of wings? > >FOR THE SAME REASON CARS HAVE TWO SETS OF WHEELS AND AIRPLANES HAVE TAILS >AND AILERONS. THIS ALLOWS THEM TO STEER. ALSO IT ALLOWS THEM TO NOT HAVE >SUCH >BIG WINGS WHEN THEY WANT TO HIDE, SINCE THEY CAN'T FOLD THEIR WINGS. Both question and answer are problematic as the context for "why" is not obvious. The ability to steer is not limited to insects with two wings, but that ability also does not explain "why" they have two wings unless the ability to steer is considered the reason or purpose that the wings exist in the first place. > > 15. Why are butterflies part of nature? >THEY POLLINATE FLOWERS TO HELP THE FLOWERS MAKE MORE FLOWERS. THEY ALSO >HELP CONTROL THE PLANTS THEY EAT SO THE PLANTS DON'T TAKE OVER, BECAUSE >EVERYTHING >IN NATURE HAS TO BE CONTROLLED TO STAY HEALTHY AND MAKE IT STRONG. This is similarly problematic in that the question invokes a specific purpose for butterflies which is beyond empirical experience to provide. The fact that they pollinate flowers and eat plants does not address "why" butterflies are part of nature any more than it might explain any other organism. It seems to me that there is a mixing of "why" questions that deal with why the universe is the way it is, and the consequences thereof. Thus, the question might be rephrased to ask what are the functional or environmental interactions. John Grehan From jmason at ink.org Wed May 3 13:44:45 2000 From: jmason at ink.org (Jim Mason) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:44:45 -0500 Subject: John Cody Saturniid paintings Message-ID: <00d901bfb527$4b1850e0$c49ec9a5@wp.state.ks.us> Any silk moth aficionados and/or leppers in the mid-continental U.S. may be interested in the following: The Great Plains Nature Center is currently showing in our lobby 36 of Dr. John Cody's watercolor paintings of silk moths. See this web page for pictures and more info: http://www.gpnc.org/johncody.htm Jim Mason, Naturalist jmason at ink.org (316) 683-5499 x103 Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th St. N. Wichita, KS 67220-2200 http://www.gpnc.org From ecosys at pacbell.net Wed May 3 14:32:03 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:32:03 -0700 Subject: Free! References: <200005031503.IAA27708@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <391070A3.8556F752@pacbell.net> And now I see why the link provided doesn't get one to the exact position of the Lasiocampidae: the "dae" on the family name did not come through as part of the link. Let's see if one from my computer will work: http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/mothlist.html#Lasiocampidae Bruce Walsh wrote: > I have a very few (4-6) spare pupae of the large SE Lasiocampid moth > Dicogaster coronada that I'll willing to send to a good home/collection. > > The individuals making the best case will be the winner! You can see the > moth, and its life stages, on our SE Arizona moth webpage, under: > > "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/mothlist.html#Lasiocampi > dae" > > Dicogaster is species #4 under Subfamily Lasiocampinae > > Cheers > > Bruce From ecosys at pacbell.net Wed May 3 14:26:16 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:26:16 -0700 Subject: Free! References: <200005031503.IAA27708@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <39106F48.7BA73DB9@pacbell.net> Bruce, The URL you provide below got me to the very bottom of your vast Arizona moths page, which required very considerable scrolling up to get to Dicogaster's position on the list; I think anyone who can still remember what they are looking for by the time they get there deserves some sort of prize! It is a pretty moth, but I am merely an admirer and promoter, not a collector. Bruce Walsh wrote: > I have a very few (4-6) spare pupae of the large SE Lasiocampid moth > Dicogaster coronada that I'll willing to send to a good home/collection. > > The individuals making the best case will be the winner! You can see the > moth, and its life stages, on our SE Arizona moth webpage, under: > > "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/mothlist.html#Lasiocampi > dae" > > Dicogaster is species #4 under Subfamily Lasiocampinae > > Cheers > > Bruce From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Wed May 3 09:38:21 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Wed, 03 May 00 13:38:21 GMT Subject: I need help....... References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org>, <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> Message-ID: <957361101snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <390985D4.23E96982 at epix.net> butrfly at epix.net "Rick Mikula" writes: > > "Dave (No Spam, Please)" wrote: > > I read an article recently which suggests that > > releasing butterflies at weddings isn't such a > > great idea. NABA has a copy on their site. > > If you would like to considered other views concerning this topic > you may consider visiting http://Butterflybreeders.org Then click on > the menu item "What scientist Are Saying" or "Why releases are okay." > Perhaps you may want to view both sides before drawing any conclusions. > R. Mikula I have no wish to start a flame war. Those who know me know that I have often spoken out against lawbreakers and dubious salesmen. Those who peddle untruths in an attempt to deceive the innocent. I am not doing this to pick a fight but because I know something that I believe that someone else should know before they make a judgement. That is to say that someone is trying to deceive people into believing something which is not truthful. I am a conservationist and I know there are a number of anti-conservation activists about so I risk attracting flames. The web site which Mr Mikula refers to is not truthful. The fact is that ALL insect conservation bodies oppose what this site is peddling. My concerns are that while it could be argued that there are two sides to an argument, this "breeders" website contains information which the informed will know thoroughly discredits them. I consider that since I know this I should say so. After all it is only good citizenship to point out to your fellows when someone is trying to get them to buy a product or an idea which is peddled by marketing that is not truthful. The website quotes a scientist as saying that the kind of releases that it supports are OK when in fact he is saying the opposite. That releases should only be performed as part of a scientifically controlled process, NOT at the wedding of "Bimbo and Rambo" :-) Now there are two possible reasons why they say this :- 1. They are deliberately deceiving people. 2. They do not know the subject well enough to comment. Either way they are discredited. By all means visit the site but remember the information is wrong. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From wingsabc at aol.com Wed May 3 14:43:44 2000 From: wingsabc at aol.com (WingsABC) Date: 03 May 2000 18:43:44 GMT Subject: The Butterfly Alphabet Message-ID: <20000503144344.20541.00001019@ng-fb1.aol.com> Dear Butterfly Enthusiast, Thank you for your interest in the discovery of my Butterfly Alphabet! Yours, Kjell B. Sandved: DIVINE DESIGN For a thousand years the English-speaking world has been happy with one Alphabet, the Roman. No one had ever found letters as written by nature???s own hand. Now we have found a second, or rather the first, nature???s own alphabet, the real language of dreams and love, the Butterfly Alphabet. It has been flying around on this earth for over 50 million years. Nature???s Message was always there and for us to see . . . it was written on the wings of butterflies! If you can???t wait to see the magnificent Butterfly Alphabet click on this link, http://www.butterflyalphabet.com. DISCOVERY IN THE ATTIC This most extraordinary discovery began in the attic of the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC. Kjell ("Shell") was balancing high on a ladder, surrounded by drawers and boxes full of exotic butterflies. When he opened an aromatic old Havana cigar box, there it was woven into the tapestry of a wing: a silvery, gleaming letter "F." "I looked under the microscope at this miniature design," Kjell recalls, "and marveled at the scales in soft pastel and sparkling silver. Not even a calligrapher could have improved on its beauty. It reminded me of how the ancient scribes lovingly embellished letters in bibles and illuminated manuscripts with human and animal forms." Intrigued, Kjell photographed the letter and hung the print next to his desk where he admired it for over a year. INSPIRATION Then one day it dawned on him that having found one letter of the alphabet there might be others flying around. Could he find them all? What a challenge. Inspired his nine was quickly made up. "I was going to be the first to try." He tells us. Little did he know that it would take him 24 years! There was a problem though, he had never taken a picture before and knew nothing about photography! "I don't want to think about how many awful pictures I ground out those first years," Kjell reveals "but when you do something for the sheer love of creating, you can achieve anything, mistakes and all, but I must admit, had it not been for epoxy glue, I would never have been able to do it." It is hard to believe that photography was to become Kjell???s second career . It would change the course of his life . . . and so the story continues on the order form, please click here http://www.butterflyalphabet.com/print.html Internet: www.butterflyalphabet.com E-mail: sales at butterflyalphabet.com Phone: (800) ABC-WING Fax: (202) 966-5799 Kjell B. Sandved, P.O. Box 39138, Washington, D.C., 20016 See more of Kjell's nature photos: Kodak's Photographer of the Year at www.kodak.com find: Close to Perfection From cherubini at mindspring.com Wed May 3 09:31:00 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 13:31:00 +0000 Subject: I need help....... References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org>, <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> <957361101snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39102A14.5743@mindspring.com> Neil Jones wrote: > The website quotes a scientist as saying that the kind of releases that it supports > are OK when in fact he is saying the opposite. That releases should only > be performed as part of a scientifically controlled process, NOT at the > wedding of "Bimbo and Rambo" :-) One of the very largest monarch butterfly breeders in the USA is a butterfly conservation organization run by the University of Kansas. It's called the Monarch Watch and Prof. Chip Taylor, Chairman of the Dept. of Entomology, is in charge. The Monarch Watch ships out TENS OF THOUSANDS of monarch caterpillars annually all over the central and eastern USA to be raised and released by children and teachers (relatively few of them are tagged). In recent weeks, for example, the Monarch Watch shipped 5000 caterpillars to one customer alone in Pennsylvania - about 1000 miles away from Kansas. Neil, if you feel releases can cause biological harm, why is it that you publicly object only to wedding type releases. Why don't you publicly object when an academic institution like the University of Kansas fails to perform releases "as part of a scientifically controlled process"? Paul Cherubini From butrfly at epix.net Wed May 3 16:38:55 2000 From: butrfly at epix.net (Rick Mikula) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:38:55 -0400 Subject: I need help....... References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org>, <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> <957361101snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39108E5F.EB0B7049@epix.net> Neil Jones wrote: > I have no wish to start a flame war. Mr. Jones You are welcomed to disagree with the PHD's and scientist in the IBBA organization, however I must disagree you. It does seem that your only purpose in life is to start flame wars. But I guess we all need hobbies. R. Mikula From lsweeny at flyfishing.com Wed May 3 17:35:40 2000 From: lsweeny at flyfishing.com (larry sweeny) Date: 3 May 2000 21:35:40 -0000 Subject: unsubscribe Message-ID: <20000503213540.30517.qmail@musone.chek.com> unsubscribe Have you gotten your free email at fishing.com or flyfishing.com? I got mine, come get yours! Visit www.fishing.com or www.flyfishing.com to sign up! From butrfly at epix.net Wed May 3 17:40:49 2000 From: butrfly at epix.net (Rick Mikula) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:40:49 -0400 Subject: Closed minds References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org>, <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> <957361101snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> <39102A14.5743@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <39109CE1.7ED229BB@epix.net> Paul You have failed to mention the many experiments that you have performed over the years to disprove so many long held, but untrue doctrines. Unfortunately in this case it will only fall on closed minds and deaf ears. It is interesting however that tiny little organizations such as the USDA happens to agree with the releasers, but what does a bunch of PHD's working for the federal government know anyway. R.Mikula From llrogers at airmail.net Wed May 3 21:33:35 2000 From: llrogers at airmail.net (Linda Rogers) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:33:35 -0500 Subject: I need help....... In-Reply-To: <957361101snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org> <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000503203335.0088fe70@mail.airmail.net> At 01:38 PM 5/3/2000 GMT, Neil Jones wrote: In article <390985D4.23E96982 at epix.net> butrfly at epix.net "Rick Mikula" writes: "Dave (No Spam, Please)" wrote: I read an article recently which suggests that releasing butterflies at weddings isn't such a great idea. NABA has a copy on their site. If you would like to considered other views concerning this topic you may consider visiting http://Butterflybreeders.org Then click on the menu item "What scientist Are Saying" or "Why releases are okay." Perhaps you may want to view both sides before drawing any conclusions. R. Mikula *************************************** Neil Jones replied: I have no wish to start a flame war. Those who know me know that I have often spoken out against lawbreakers and dubious salesmen. WHO ARE THE LAWBREAKERS? WHAT DUBIOUS SALESMEN? Those who peddle untruths in an attempt to deceive the innocent. ARE THEY UNTRUTHS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T YOUR VIEWS/BELIEFS?? WHAT UNTRUTHS DO YOU REFER TO? I am not doing this to pick a fight but because I know something that I believe that someone else should know before they make a judgement. That is to say that someone is trying to deceive people into believing something which is not truthful. I am a conservationist and I know there are a number of anti-conservation activists about so I risk attracting flames. NO FLAMES, BUT DEFINITELY A RESPONSE. The web site which Mr Mikula refers to is not truthful. The fact is that ALL insect conservation bodies oppose what this site is peddling. BECAUSE SOMEONE'S OPINIONS ARE IN OPPOSITION TO YOURS, THIS MEANS THEY ARE UNTRUE? My concerns are that while it could be argued that there are two sides to an argument, this "breeders" website contains information which the informed will know thoroughly discredits them. I consider that since I know this I should say so. After all it is only good citizenship to point out to your fellows when someone is trying to get them to buy a product or an idea which is peddled by marketing that is not truthful. IT IS JUST AS IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT TO PEOPLE THAT THEY NEED TO READ ALL THEY CAN TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS, AND NOT JUST LISTEN TO ONE PERSON'S IDEAS. DON'T YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE CAPABLE OF FORMING INTELLIGENT OPINIONS WITHOUT YOU TELLING THEM WHAT THEY SHOULD THINK AND BELIEVE? THEY CAN READ YOUR IDEAS AND OPINIONS AND THOSE IDEAS AND OPINIONS ON THE WWW.BUTTERFLYBREEDERS.ORG WEBSITE, AND FORM A PERSONAL OPINION ALL THEIR OWN WITHOUT YOU TELLING THEM IT IS ALL WRONG. The website quotes a scientist as saying that the kind of releases that it supports are OK when in fact he is saying the opposite. That releases should only be performed as part of a scientifically controlled process, NOT at the wedding of "Bimbo and Rambo" :-) IF YOU ARE GOING TO QUOTE SOMETHING, AT LEAST DO IT ACCURATELY: From The Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Butterfly World by Paul Smart-- last page of the introduction, last sentence: "... A positive contribution may be made by aiding conservation projects and by helping to breed and release healthy butterflies in suitable habitats, though this should always be done as part of a documented and properly organized project." NOT "SCIENTIFICALLY CONTROLLED PROCESS" AS YOU WROTE. DON'T TWIST THINGS AROUND. BIMBO AND RAMBO?? WHAT A WITTY ONE YOU ARE. Now there are two possible reasons why they say this :- 1. They are deliberately deceiving people. 2. They do not know the subject well enough to comment. Either way they are discredited. By all means visit the site but remember the information is wrong. WE DO KNOW THE SUBJECT AND HAVE SCIENTISTS WITH ACCREDITATION EQUAL TO OR EXCEEDING YOURS THAT DISAGREE WITH YOU. SINCE WE BELIEVE WE "KNOW" THE SUBJECT, THEN WE ARE NOT DELIBERATELY DECEIVING PEOPLE. WE SIMPLY HAVE OUR BELIEFS, AS YOU DO. BELOW IS A SUMMARY OF ONE SUCH SCIENTIFIC PERSON'S OPINIONS ON THIS SUBJECT, FOR ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO READ IT. MR. JONES CHOSE NOT TO MENTION IT. THIS SUMMARY ANSWERS MOST OF THE CONCERNS RAISED ABOUT BUTTERFLY RELEASES. *************************** Dr. J. Bruce Walsh, Associate Professor University of Arizona Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology In addition to being an Associate Professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Dr. Walsh is a geneticist, lepidopterist and co-author of the acclaimed "Genetics and Analysis of Quantitative Traits." Dr. Walsh is a Member of the Center for Insect Science; a Faculty Member of the Graduate Interdisciplinary Genetics Program; and is a Member of the Applied Mathematics Program at the University of Arizona. For more information about Dr. Walsh, please refer to his website at: www.nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/ Below is a summary of the question and answer exchanges which have taken place to date on the monarch transfer issue as it relates to genetic disruption concerns. CONCERN #1: Releases of western Monarchs in the East poses a serious problem, due to the influx of western genes that will mess up the gene pool for migratory Eastern populations. DR. WALSH RESPONSE: Suppose "western" genes reduced fitness by 50% when appearing in Eastern populations. In order for the frequency of such deleterious alleles to be even 1%, the number of monarchs transposed across the continental divide EACH GENERATION during the summer breeding period must amount to 0.5% of the entire eastern monarch population. If the eastern monarch population is composed of, say 200,000,000 butterflies, this amounts to transposing 1,000,000 monarchs EACH SUMMER BREEDING GENERATION just to get a one percent frequency of these deleterious alleles. If introductions are stopped at any point, this frequency quickly decays to zero. So introduction of deleterious alleles (if indeed these are there, this has not yet been demonstrated) from transfers do not poses a threat. One can always be worried about possible risks, however risks need to be demonstrated as being real or potential. If potential, there needs to be data to support this case, such as east-west hybrids having reduced fitness coupled with transfer rates being such that the majority of the population is due to transfers. CONCERN #2: The amount of gene flow between E-W is probably very low. If it is substantially less than 1% per generation it is certainly possible that the E and W monarch populations are genetically distinct. Low rates of migration could keep the populations homogenized at neutral loci which could be why the few genetic studies that have compared eastern and western monarch populations haven't found differences. But if eastern and western monarchs are differentiated at non-neutral loci, transfers will very likely mask any degree of natural differentiation at neutral genetic loci presently occurring in natural populations. DR. WALSH RESPONSE: If a loci (neutral or non-nuetral) has any significant negative effects on fitness (as seems to be the concern here), it is rapidly removed by natural selection. This is especially true if it starts out at a low frequency to begin with. CONCERN #3: Mildly deleterious alleles could be carried for many generations as long as the adaptiveness of the whole organism remained high. DR. WALSH RESPONSE: Natural selection removes deleterious alleles so that the population mean fitness has no significant moderate or long-term decline. Further, the frequency of any such (hypothetical) deleterious alleles introduced during a transfer would be low --- if the deleterious allele were fixed in the western populations, then its frequency would be no greater than the fraction of the entire population due to transplants. CONCERN #4 We do not have a yardstick to judge at what level of genetic divergence is it okay to introduce two allopatric populations. DR. WALSH RESPONSE: It is common for natural selection to produced sibling species that similar at 99% of their genetic loci, but have distinct differences at a few genetic loci. Similarly, we don't know whether there are small, but evolutionary significant differences in the western and eastern population. I am unconvinced that the definitive genetic study has been conducted on Monarch butterflies. If there has been even a trivial amount of gene flow historically (say through the continental divide) then these issues are largely moot. CONCERN #5: There may have been enough isolation that the two populations may have some parapatric genetic variation going on that could reduce the resistance to disease, predation or some other environmental factor. DR. WALSH RESPONSE: In other words, deleterious alleles would be introduced. Natural selection removes these alleles. CONCERN #6: When a large number of loci underlie a trait (for example, fitness is a trait influenced by a large number of loci) natural selection may retain deleterious alleles because of so much selection occurring on other loci. DR. WALSH RESPONSE: Selection is extremely efficient. If a loci has any significant negative effects on fitness it is rapidly removed by natural selection. This is especially true if it starts out at a low frequency to begin with. The thread of this concern seems to be pleiotropy --- where a gene effects several characters. For example, a particular allele might have some local benefit but then become deleterious (say larvae grow faster, but are poorer migrators). In such cases, the overall selection is still deleterious, and the alleles are removed as before, requiring strong amounts of migration (via transplantation) to keep the allele frequencies above trivial levels. CONCERN #7: You are assuming that the deleterious gene gets introduced into a large randomly breeding population; suppose that it gets introduced into a very small localized breeding group? DR. WALSH RESPONSE: With such a metapopulation structure, a deleterious allele that gets fixed by drift in a local deme must spread to other demes. Monty Slatkin has looked at fixation probabilities under such schemes. The net result is that fixation probability of a deleterious allele is not significantly increased by such a population structure. CONCERN #8: Releases would undermine future attempts to look at the historical migration patterns. In other words, it would be impossible to sort out historical migration patterns if recent transfers have occurred. DR. WALSH RESPONSE: If the concern is that transfers may confound attempts to use population-level variation to sort out the historical levels of migration, no need to worry. A variety of standard approaches (such as the levels of local linkage disequilibrium for closely-linked molecular markers) can be used to distinguish between a historical low background level of gene flow versus a recent (perhaps man-induced) pulse. If historically there has been a low-level of migration (perhaps a few strays across the divide each generation), then the pattern of genetic variation is structured differently from the pattern produced by recent migration. In particular, rare alleles (common western alleles rare in eastern populations) will be more evenly spread across haplotypes different combinations of alleles at other loci), while under recent migration, rare western-specific alleles will tend to be much more clustered. DR. WALSH RESPONSE IN MORE DETAIL: Upon reading some of the recent (and past) posts on transfers, I was struck that a major (perhaps the driving) undercurrent is not really biological concern for the population, but rather that such releases would undermine future attempts to look at the historical migration patterns. As I briefly commented on recently, this need not be the case if some of the more recent molecular marker methods are used. With our ability to quickly look at the DNA sequence of just about any gene from just about any organism, we can directly score variation at the DNA level. Two types of variation in the sequence of DNA bases have been used as molecular markers --- Single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs, often pronounced "snips") and Simple tandem arrays (STRs, often pronounced "strips"). SNPs are differences in single base pairs between some individuals in the population at a particular location in the DNA, while STRs are changes in the size of DNA regions showing repeats. For example, GGATATATATCG is a region of DNA with three "AT" repeats, while GGATATATCG has only three repeats. Such simple short repeats tend to mutate at high rates (and hence give different array sizes), while SNPs have far lower mutation rates. Because of these differences in mutation rates, one can use a linked pair of SNP-STR sites to actually gauge the age of this DNA region relative to a standard from which it was drawn. For example, if (say) at a particular SNP, western populations tend to have an "A" allele, while eastern populations have another base (say "C"), when we can estimate the age of the "A" allele in our sample (from its western origin) by looking at the frequencies of linked SNPs. This allows us to distinguish between very recent migration events (such as might occur via transfers) from historical migration events (those which have occurred at lower frequencies, but at a relatively constant rate over long periods of time). This approach has been widely used by human population geneticists (such as the Kidds at Yale) to date both recent and historical human migrations. DR. WALSH GENERAL COMMENTS: The concern about transfers have never been stated in terms of explicit models with parameters and assumptions that we can examine/debate. Clearly, I'm sure some of my numbers may be too high or too low, but we can examine the consequences of those changes to see if they have a real impact. In other works, we can do hypothesis testing. Are there examples where introduction of individuals from one closely-related population (at low levels) of the same species into another have had significant consequences? This is the working assumption against transfers, but in order to claim it as a problem, there must either be reasonable models as to why it would pose a threat or at least previous examples demonstrating this indeed has happened. "The sun shines not on us, but in us. The rivers flow not past, but through us." -- John Muir From juwaki at pacific.net.ph Wed May 3 23:37:21 2000 From: juwaki at pacific.net.ph (Stanley Cabigas) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:37:21 +0800 Subject: Telescopic net In-Reply-To: <8dvc7u$ac$1@tron.sci.fi> Message-ID: I am seeking a telescopic net, preferably expanding up to 5 meters. This should be a 1 piece equipment, not with multiple insertable parts. For suggestions and offers, please email me directly. Stanley juwaki at pacific.net.ph From mswanhall at earthlink.net Wed May 3 19:43:32 2000 From: mswanhall at earthlink.net (Martin Swanhall) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:43:32 GMT Subject: red admiral Message-ID: Saw my first red admiral over the weekend - what a nice looking butterfly. Marty Woodbury, CT From patfoley at csus.edu Wed May 3 23:34:08 2000 From: patfoley at csus.edu (Patrick Foley) Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:34:08 -0700 Subject: I need help....... References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org> <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> <3.0.6.32.20000503203335.0088fe70@mail.airmail.net> Message-ID: <3910EFB0.22A174EE@csus.edu> Linda and other leppers, Don't jump on Neil Jones; just argue out the science. Most butterfly population biologists would probably agree with Neil for the most part that butterfly releases should be done very circumspectly if at all. His is not an arbitrary obstinacy. This is not to say that Bruce Walsh is mistaken in his points. Most of Bruce's points I agree with, but some clarifications should be made. 1) You are not quoting Bruce directly I assume, since there are many spelling and grammatical errors in your paraphrases. 2) Bruce seems to assume that the burden of proof should lie with on the anti-releasers. This is point of view would not be held by anyone working in biological control. 3) There are some dangers (discussed by me and others in posts last year) that Bruce is not mentioning, such as disease, transposons, runaway sexual selection etc. that could cause major problems from an apparently minor release. 4) Releases would bollox up many kinds of future scientific studies on phylogeography (the geography of micro- and meso- evolution). Bruce might actually agree if put to the test. 5) There are many things we can't even think of now that could matter. It is amusing that Bruce and I would come to different attitudes from a similar academic training. One of his academic fathers is my academic grandfather (Joseph Felsenstein). We were both trained in quantitative genetics by Michael Turelli at UCDavis. He teaches at U Arizona where I did my MS. Perhaps Bruce is just more optimistic that evolution just sorts things out. My understanding of the very complex biogeography of Lepidoptera (obtained partly from Art Shapiro, another connection) and the highly fine-tuned mimicry adaptations, together with our still weak understanding of the evolution of their dispersal (despite the massive work of Robin Baker) leads me to be more skeptical of Bruce's optimism. He is probably right about most cases; it is the other cases that haunt us. Patrick Foley patfoley at csus.edu Linda Rogers wrote: > At 01:38 PM 5/3/2000 GMT, > > Neil Jones wrote: > In article <390985D4.23E96982 at epix.net> butrfly at epix.net "Rick Mikula" writes: > > "Dave (No Spam, Please)" wrote: > I read an article recently which suggests > that releasing butterflies at weddings isn't > such a great idea. NABA has a copy on their site. > > If you would like to considered other views concerning > this topic you may consider visiting http://Butterflybreeders.org > Then click on the menu item "What scientist > Are Saying" or "Why releases are okay." > > Perhaps you may want to view both sides before > drawing any conclusions. > > R. Mikula > > *************************************** > Neil Jones replied: > > I have no wish to start a flame war. Those who know me know that I have > often spoken out against lawbreakers and dubious salesmen. > > WHO ARE THE LAWBREAKERS? WHAT DUBIOUS > SALESMEN? > > Those who peddle untruths in an attempt to deceive the innocent. > > ARE THEY UNTRUTHS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T YOUR > VIEWS/BELIEFS?? WHAT UNTRUTHS DO YOU > REFER TO? > > I am not doing this to pick a fight but because I know something that I > believe that someone else should know before they make a judgement. That is > to say that someone is trying to deceive people into believing something > which is not truthful. I am a conservationist and I know there are a > number of anti-conservation activists about so I risk attracting flames. > > NO FLAMES, BUT DEFINITELY A RESPONSE. > > The web site which Mr Mikula refers to is not truthful. > The fact is that ALL insect conservation bodies oppose what this site is > peddling. > > BECAUSE SOMEONE'S OPINIONS ARE IN OPPOSITION > TO YOURS, THIS MEANS THEY ARE UNTRUE? > > My concerns are that while it could be argued that there are two sides to > an argument, this "breeders" website contains information which the > informed will know thoroughly discredits them. I consider that since I know > this I should say so. After all it is only good citizenship to point out to > your fellows when someone is trying to get them to buy a product or an idea > which is peddled by marketing that is not truthful. > > IT IS JUST AS IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT TO > PEOPLE THAT THEY NEED TO READ ALL THEY > CAN TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS, AND NOT JUST > LISTEN TO ONE PERSON'S IDEAS. DON'T YOU > THINK PEOPLE ARE CAPABLE OF FORMING > INTELLIGENT OPINIONS WITHOUT YOU TELLING > THEM WHAT THEY SHOULD THINK AND BELIEVE? > THEY CAN READ YOUR IDEAS AND OPINIONS > AND THOSE IDEAS AND OPINIONS ON THE > WWW.BUTTERFLYBREEDERS.ORG WEBSITE, AND > FORM A PERSONAL OPINION ALL THEIR OWN > WITHOUT YOU TELLING THEM IT IS ALL WRONG. > > The website quotes a scientist as saying that the kind of releases that it > supports are OK when in fact he is saying the opposite. That releases > should only be performed as part of a scientifically controlled process, > NOT at the wedding of "Bimbo and Rambo" :-) > > IF YOU ARE GOING TO QUOTE SOMETHING, > AT LEAST DO IT ACCURATELY: > > From The Illustrated Encyclopedia of the > Butterfly World by Paul Smart-- > last page of the introduction, > last sentence: > > "... A positive contribution may be made by aiding > conservation projects and by helping to > breed and release healthy butterflies in > suitable habitats, though this should always > be done as part of a documented and > properly organized project." > > NOT "SCIENTIFICALLY CONTROLLED PROCESS" AS > YOU WROTE. DON'T TWIST THINGS AROUND. > > BIMBO AND RAMBO?? WHAT A WITTY ONE YOU ARE. > > Now there are two possible reasons why they say this :- > > 1. They are deliberately deceiving people. > 2. They do not know the subject well enough to comment. > > Either way they are discredited. By all means visit the site but remember > the information is wrong. > > WE DO KNOW THE SUBJECT AND HAVE SCIENTISTS > WITH ACCREDITATION EQUAL TO OR EXCEEDING YOURS > THAT DISAGREE WITH YOU. SINCE WE BELIEVE > WE "KNOW" THE SUBJECT, THEN WE ARE NOT > DELIBERATELY DECEIVING PEOPLE. WE SIMPLY > HAVE OUR BELIEFS, AS YOU DO. > > BELOW IS A SUMMARY OF ONE SUCH SCIENTIFIC > PERSON'S OPINIONS ON THIS SUBJECT, > FOR ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO READ IT. > MR. JONES CHOSE NOT TO MENTION IT. > THIS SUMMARY ANSWERS MOST OF THE CONCERNS > RAISED ABOUT BUTTERFLY RELEASES. > > *************************** > > Dr. J. Bruce Walsh, Associate Professor > University of Arizona > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > > In addition to being an Associate Professor of Ecology and > Evolutionary Biology, Dr. Walsh is a geneticist, lepidopterist and > co-author of the acclaimed "Genetics and Analysis of Quantitative Traits." > > Dr. Walsh is a Member of the Center for Insect Science; a > Faculty Member of the Graduate Interdisciplinary Genetics > Program; and is a Member of the Applied Mathematics Program > at the University of Arizona. > > For more information about Dr. Walsh, please refer to his > website at: > www.nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/ > > Below is a summary of the question and answer exchanges > which have taken place to date on the monarch transfer issue as > it relates to genetic disruption concerns. > > CONCERN #1: > Releases of western Monarchs in the East poses a serious > problem, due to the influx of western genes that will mess up the > gene pool for migratory Eastern populations. > > DR. WALSH RESPONSE: > Suppose "western" genes reduced fitness by 50% when > appearing in Eastern populations. In order for the frequency of > such deleterious alleles to be even 1%, the number of monarchs > transposed across the continental divide EACH GENERATION > during the summer breeding period must amount to 0.5% of the > entire eastern monarch population. > > If the eastern monarch population is composed of, say > 200,000,000 butterflies, this amounts to transposing 1,000,000 > monarchs EACH SUMMER BREEDING GENERATION just to > get a one percent frequency of these deleterious alleles. If > introductions are stopped at any point, this frequency quickly > decays to zero. > > So introduction of deleterious alleles (if indeed these > are there, this has not yet been demonstrated) from > transfers do not poses a threat. > > One can always be worried about possible risks, however risks > need to be demonstrated as being real or potential. > > If potential, there needs to be data to support this case, such as > east-west hybrids having reduced fitness coupled with transfer > rates being such that the majority of the population is due to > transfers. > > CONCERN #2: > The amount of gene flow between E-W is probably very low. If it > is substantially less than 1% per generation it is certainly > possible that the E and W monarch populations are genetically > distinct. Low rates of migration could keep the populations > homogenized at neutral loci which could be why the few genetic > studies that have compared eastern and western monarch > populations haven't found differences. But if eastern and western > monarchs are differentiated at non-neutral loci, transfers will very > likely mask any degree of natural differentiation at neutral genetic > loci presently occurring in natural populations. > > DR. WALSH RESPONSE: > If a loci (neutral or non-nuetral) has any significant negative > effects on fitness (as seems to be the concern here), it is rapidly > removed by natural selection. This is especially true if it starts > out at a low frequency to begin with. > > CONCERN #3: > Mildly deleterious alleles could be carried for many generations > as long as the adaptiveness of the whole organism remained > high. > > DR. WALSH RESPONSE: > Natural selection removes deleterious alleles so that the > population mean fitness has no significant moderate or > long-term decline. > > Further, the frequency of any such (hypothetical) deleterious > alleles introduced during a transfer would be low --- if the > deleterious allele were fixed in the western populations, then its > frequency would be no greater than the fraction of the entire > population due to transplants. > > CONCERN #4 > We do not have a yardstick to judge at what level of genetic > divergence is it okay to introduce two allopatric populations. > > DR. WALSH RESPONSE: > It is common for natural selection to produced sibling species > that similar at 99% of their genetic loci, but have distinct > differences at a few genetic loci. Similarly, we don't know > whether there are small, but evolutionary significant differences > in the western and eastern population. > > I am unconvinced that the definitive genetic study has > been conducted on Monarch butterflies. > > If there has been even a trivial amount of gene flow > historically (say through the continental divide) then > these issues are largely moot. > > CONCERN #5: > There may have been enough isolation that the two populations > may have some parapatric genetic variation going on that could > reduce the resistance to disease, predation or some other > environmental factor. > > DR. WALSH RESPONSE: > In other words, deleterious alleles would be introduced. > > Natural selection removes these alleles. > > CONCERN #6: > When a large number of loci underlie a trait (for example, fitness > is a trait influenced by a large number of loci) natural selection > may retain deleterious alleles because of so much selection > occurring on other loci. > > DR. WALSH RESPONSE: > Selection is extremely efficient. If a loci has any significant > negative effects on fitness it is rapidly removed by natural > selection. This is especially true if it starts out at a low frequency > to begin with. > > The thread of this concern seems to be pleiotropy --- where a > gene effects several characters. For example, a particular allele > might have some local benefit but then become deleterious (say > larvae grow faster, but are poorer migrators). In such cases, the > overall selection is still deleterious, and the alleles are removed > as before, requiring strong amounts of migration (via > transplantation) to keep the allele frequencies above trivial levels. > > CONCERN #7: > You are assuming that the deleterious gene gets introduced into > a large randomly breeding population; suppose that it gets > introduced into a very small localized breeding group? > > DR. WALSH RESPONSE: > With such a metapopulation structure, a deleterious allele that > gets fixed by drift in a local deme must spread to other demes. > Monty Slatkin has looked at fixation probabilities under such > schemes. The net result is that fixation probability of a > deleterious allele is not significantly increased by such a > population structure. > > CONCERN #8: > Releases would undermine future attempts to look at the > historical migration patterns. In other words, it would be > impossible to sort out historical migration patterns if recent > transfers have occurred. > > DR. WALSH RESPONSE: > > If the concern is that transfers may confound attempts > to use population-level variation to sort out the > historical levels of migration, no need to worry. > > A variety of standard approaches (such as the levels of local > linkage disequilibrium for closely-linked molecular markers) can > be used to distinguish between a historical low background level > of gene flow versus a recent (perhaps man-induced) pulse. If > historically there has been a low-level of migration (perhaps a > few strays across the divide each generation), then the pattern > of genetic variation is structured differently from the pattern > produced by recent migration. In particular, rare alleles (common > western alleles rare in eastern populations) will be more evenly > spread across haplotypes different combinations of alleles at > other loci), while under recent migration, rare western-specific > alleles will tend to be much more clustered. > > DR. WALSH RESPONSE IN MORE DETAIL: > > Upon reading some of the recent (and past) posts on transfers, I > was struck that a major (perhaps the driving) undercurrent is not > really biological concern for the population, but rather that such > releases would undermine future attempts to look at the > historical migration patterns. > > As I briefly commented on recently, this need not be > the case if some of the more recent molecular marker > methods are used. > > With our ability to quickly look at the DNA sequence of just about > any gene from just about any organism, we can directly score > variation at the DNA level. Two types of variation in the sequence > of DNA bases have been used as molecular markers --- Single > nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs, often pronounced "snips") > and Simple tandem arrays (STRs, often pronounced "strips"). > SNPs are differences in single base pairs between some > individuals in the population at a particular location in the DNA, > while STRs are changes in the size of DNA regions showing > repeats. For example, GGATATATATCG is a region of DNA with > three "AT" repeats, while GGATATATCG has only three repeats. > Such simple short repeats tend to mutate at high rates (and > hence give different array sizes), while SNPs have far lower > mutation rates. Because of these differences in mutation rates, > one can use a linked pair of SNP-STR sites to actually gauge the > age of this DNA region relative to a standard from which it was > drawn. For example, if (say) at a particular SNP, western > populations tend to have an "A" allele, while eastern populations > have another base (say "C"), when we can estimate the age of > the "A" allele in our sample (from its western origin) by looking at > the frequencies of linked SNPs. > > This allows us to distinguish between very recent migration > events (such as might occur via transfers) from historical > migration events (those which have occurred at lower > frequencies, but at a relatively constant rate over long periods of > time). This approach has been widely used by human population > geneticists (such as the Kidds at Yale) to date both recent and > historical human migrations. > > DR. WALSH GENERAL COMMENTS: > The concern about transfers have never been stated in terms of > explicit models with > parameters and assumptions that we can examine/debate. > Clearly, I'm sure some of my numbers may be too high or too > low, but we can examine the consequences of those changes to > see if they have a real impact. In other works, we can do > hypothesis testing. > > Are there examples where introduction of individuals from one > closely-related population (at low levels) of the same species > into another have had significant consequences? > > This is the working assumption against transfers, but in order > to claim it as a problem, there must either be > reasonable models as to why it would pose a threat or > at least previous examples demonstrating this indeed > has happened. > > "The sun shines not on us, but in us. > The rivers flow not past, > but through us." > -- John Muir From butrfly at epix.net Thu May 4 00:56:24 2000 From: butrfly at epix.net (Rick Mikula) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:56:24 -0400 Subject: Telescopic net References: Message-ID: <391102F8.C5EE2BFF@epix.net> Stanley Cabigas wrote: > > I am seeking a telescopic net, What works very well is a golf ball retriever. They are made from aluminum and used for retrieving golf balls from water hazards. It will extend to 3.5 to 5 meters depending on the model but it will retract to about one meter. To extend it just requires a simple twist of the rod to unlock it. Then it can be extended to your desired length, twist it back and it will lock into place. When done with the extension it will slide back into it's manageable 1 meter length handle. They come equipped with a contraption at the end that will grab golf balls. It can easily be removed and the tines of your net can be place into the opening and then hammered or taped shut. The metal handle will also serve as a deterrent to snakes, dogs or any others not happy with your pursuit of enjoyment. Do not take my word for it. Just go to a golf shop, about the retrievers, and look at it. Once you see it everything will all fall into place and you will see how it could be adapted to your needs. It should be less than $20 US From Heath at melcher.ch Thu May 4 03:16:35 2000 From: Heath at melcher.ch (Heath Fred) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:16:35 +0200 Subject: Releases Message-ID: <413A0D4E2D3BD111B1D800805F4B6F49D86323@MELCHER> Famous 18th century quotation, "Why don't we release a few European Starlings in the Shakespeare Garden here in Central Park in New York City. It will be lovely, just like back in England. What harm can a few starlings do?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000504/bffcc463/attachment.html From Heath at melcher.ch Thu May 4 03:26:32 2000 From: Heath at melcher.ch (Heath Fred) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:26:32 +0200 Subject: Releases Message-ID: <413A0D4E2D3BD111B1D800805F4B6F49D86324@MELCHER> Sorry, I meant 19th century! The starling needed less than 100 years to drastically reduce populations of many native North American hole nesting birds such as the Eastern Bluebird, Purple Martin, and numerous woodpecker species. Famous 18th century quotation, "Why don't we release a few European Starlings in the Shakespeare Garden here in Central Park in New York City. It will be lovely, just like back in England. What harm can a few starlings do?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000504/d4c5c489/attachment.html From cherubini at mindspring.com Wed May 3 22:49:27 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 02:49:27 +0000 Subject: I need help....... References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org> <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> <3.0.6.32.20000503203335.0088fe70@mail.airmail.net> <3910EFB0.22A174EE@csus.edu> Message-ID: <3910E537.FB8@mindspring.com> Geneticist Patrick Foley wrote: > 2) Bruce seems to assume that the burden of proof > should lie with on the anti-releasers. This is point of view would not be held by > anyone working in biological control. 90% of all the butterflies raised and released in the USA (48 contiguous states) by commercial and educational breeders involve just two species: The Monarch and Painted Lady. The Monarch and Painted Lady naturally range and breed in all 48 states. In the case of the Monarch, about 100,000 are annually raised and released by breeders into a nationwide population of about 200,000,000. Now lets assume the burden of proof of no harm should lie with the pro-releasers. Pat, can you list specific scientific studies that the pro-releasers should sponsor or conduct that would satisfy this "burden of proof" in regard to these two species? > 3) There are some dangers (discussed by me > and others in posts last year) that Bruce is not mentioning, such as disease, > transposons, runaway sexual selection etc. that could cause major problems from an > apparently minor release. Can you be more specific about what sorts of "major problems" might develope from annual releases of 100,000 Monarchs and 200,000 Painted Ladies within the 48 states? > Releases would bollox up many kinds of future > scientific studies on phylogeography (the geography of micro- and meso- > evolution) Can you be specific about what you mean by "bollox"? Can you present us with a math based model that describes the assumptions that would have to be made for this type of harm to realized? For example, how many Monarchs or Painted Ladies would have to be released annually over what amount of land area? Paul Cherubini, Placerville, California From butrfly at epix.net Thu May 4 08:42:03 2000 From: butrfly at epix.net (Rick Mikula) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 08:42:03 -0400 Subject: Sorry References: <413A0D4E2D3BD111B1D800805F4B6F49D86323@MELCHER> Message-ID: <3911701B.45F7F67C@epix.net> > Heath Fred wrote: > > Famous 18th century quotation, "Why don't we release a few > European Starlings in the Shakespeare Garden here in Central Park in > New York City. It will be lovely, just like back in England. What harm > can a few starlings do?" And I could not agree with you more if that were the case, but the species used are from the United States and not imported from other countries. As per the USDA they are not transported across the 100 meridian. So It seems that perhaps your example does not fit this situation. I would be totally against releasing Bird wings in Toledo or Morphos in Maine. There are however, only a few species that are approved by the USDA and of those fewer are actually used. Nothing is imported from foreign countries. Sorry. R. Mikula From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu May 4 09:48:14 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:48:14 -0400 Subject: Releases In-Reply-To: Heath Fred "RE: Releases" (May 4, 9:26am) References: <413A0D4E2D3BD111B1D800805F4B6F49D86324@MELCHER> Message-ID: <1000504094818.ZM3646@Gochfeld> Actually I believe Fred was right about the 18th century at which time Aclimatization societies were already active in Europe bring novelties from the colonies and encouraging their establishment in private and public gardens. There is even a "Jardin des Acclimatisations" (excuse the spelling or lack thereof) in Paris, which got its start that way many decades ago. Perhaps we should be considering releases in a risk assessment framework. What is the probability that something bad will happen. Most likely it is small, but what is "small". Moreover, there are at least two dimensions to "risk": probability and consequence. We need to recognize that even highly improbable events might have substantial consequence. Optimists focal on the low probability and pessimists on the high cost of being wrong. I presume that there are lots of post-release assessments to determine how long butterflies (or other creatures) survive and whether they reproduce. From such data one could begin to perform a risk assessment. At least we're not confronted by the overgrowth of exotic butterflies (Cabbage Whites excepted), like the exotic plant community. M. Gochfeld M. Gochfeld From acynor at fullerton.edu Thu May 4 09:51:09 2000 From: acynor at fullerton.edu (Anthony Cynor) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 06:51:09 -0700 Subject: Sorry References: <413A0D4E2D3BD111B1D800805F4B6F49D86323@MELCHER> <3911701B.45F7F67C@epix.net> Message-ID: <3911804C.274F6A46@fullerton.edu> Rick Mikula wrote: > > Heath Fred wrote: > > > > Famous 18th century quotation, "Why don't we release a few > > European Starlings in the Shakespeare Garden here in Central Park in > > New York City. It will be lovely, just like back in England. What harm > > can a few starlings do?" > > And I could not agree with you more if that were the case, but the > species used are from the United States and not imported from other > countries. As per the USDA they are not transported across the 100 > meridian. So It seems that perhaps your example does not fit this > situation. I would be totally against releasing Bird wings in Toledo or > Morphos in Maine. There are however, only a few species that are > approved by the USDA and of those fewer are actually used. Nothing is > imported from foreign countries. Sorry. > > R. Mikula I doubt if releasing either of those species in the areas mentioned would have any effect except for making it a more colorful summer! Tony From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu May 4 09:51:44 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:51:44 -0400 Subject: I need help....... In-Reply-To: Paul Cherubini "Re: I need help......." (May 4, 2:49am) References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org> <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> <3.0.6.32.20000503203335.0088fe70@mail.airmail.net> <3910EFB0.22A174EE@csus.edu> <3910E537.FB8@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <1000504095147.ZM3646@Gochfeld> Paul's response to Pat Foley's posting is very reminiscent of what we hear and have heard from the biotech community. The biotech industry did not take for granted that it had to prove safety and still argues that regulatory agencies have to prove harm. If it weren't for a very cynical public, suspicious of the motives of large industry, I would guess that the balance would not sway in favor of the regulatory agencies. Like any statistical problem it is much easier to demonstrate harm (even when it is rare) than to provide convincing evidence of safety (even when it is common). However, that alone should not shift the responsibility. M. Gochfeld From llrogers at airmail.net Thu May 4 10:41:06 2000 From: llrogers at airmail.net (Linda Rogers) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:41:06 -0500 Subject: I need help....... In-Reply-To: <3910EFB0.22A174EE@csus.edu> References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org> <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> <3.0.6.32.20000503203335.0088fe70@mail.airmail.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000504094106.0088bbd0@mail.airmail.net> At 08:34 PM 5/3/2000 -0700, Patrick Foley wrote: Linda and other leppers, Don't jump on Neil Jones; just argue out the science. That is NOT what Mr. Jones was doing! He invites stinging replies with his abrasive and offensive manner. He says he doesn't want to start a flame war, then proceeds to insult and offend. In his reply regarding releases he did not ARGUE THE SCIENCE. He called names: lawbreakers, dubious salesmen, untruth peddlers, and accused people of deliberate deceit and not knowing subject. He discredits in a petty fashion to convince the reader to take his opinion. Or, he's "protecting" them from lying carpetbaggers (since the reader's not intelligent enough to read for themselves and form their own opinion). The "Bimbo and Rambo" comment, was that ARGUING SCIENCE?? This sort of attack and negative behavior does not open the door to learning nor to any thoughtful dialog between groups. Linda Rogers, Member International Butterfly Breeder's Association www.butterflybreeders.org "The sun shines not on us, but in us. The rivers flow not past, but through us." -- John Muir From SUNSOL at prodigy.net Thu May 4 12:14:02 2000 From: SUNSOL at prodigy.net (Sunsol) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:14:02 -0700 Subject: Checkerspot on the news Message-ID: <8es7mm$45ak$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> I heard something on the news this morning about a checkerspot. They said that the Army Corps of Engineers gave a permit to a developer in San Jose, CA to put in a shopping mall. And now they will have to wait a year to start construction because of the checkerspot. What will waiting a year do? Do they plan to move the checkerspot? Sally From cherubini at mindspring.com Thu May 4 06:01:47 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 10:01:47 +0000 Subject: Releases and the burden of proof References: <413A0D4E2D3BD111B1D800805F4B6F49D86324@MELCHER> <1000504094818.ZM3646@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <39114A8B.77F3@mindspring.com> Michael Gochfeld wrote: > Paul's response to Pat Foley's posting is very reminiscent of what we > hear and have heard from the biotech community. The biotech industry > did not take for granted that it had to prove safety and still argues > that regulatory agencies have to prove harm. If it weren't for a very > cynical public, suspicious of the motives of large industry, I would > guess that the balance would not sway in favor of the regulatory > agencies. Like any statistical problem it is much easier to demonstrate > harm (even when it is rare) than to provide convincing evidence of > safety (even when it is common). However, that alone should not shift > the responsibility. You seem to have misinterpreted my intent, Michael. The pro-release community sincerely wants to know what specific scientific studies that it should sponsor or conduct that would satisfy this "burden of proof" of no harm in regard to the two species used for 90% of all releases: The Painted Lady and Monarch Butterfly. For example, last fall and winter the pro-release community took the initiative to conduct a massive monarch tagging project, costing $10,000 in Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico to determine the winter destination of fall migrants in the Rocky Mountain area. We determined that both wild caught and butterfly farm raised monarchs migrated in a wide range of directions (West to Southeast) to monarch overwintering sites in both California and central Mexico, some 2000 miles apart. The butterflies crossed the continental divide in both directions. Prior to this study, the established dogma had been that all fall migrants west of the Rockies migrated to California and all fall migrants east of the continental divide migrated to the highlands of central Mexico. It had been assumed that the Rockies represented a kind of Berlin Wall to monarch movement and gene flow. Now the pro-release community wants to move on and sponsor or conduct other types of specific scientific studies that would satisfy this "burden of proof" of no harm in regard to the Painted Lady and Monarch Butterfly. We look forward to hearing advice and suggestions about for future research projects from invertebrate geneticists such as Pat Foley and Bruce Walsh and from insect pathologists. Paul Cherubini, Placerville, California From jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu Thu May 4 15:29:33 2000 From: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu (Bruce Walsh) Date: 04 May 00 12:29:33 -0700 Subject: Florida collecting Message-ID: <200005041926.MAA14206@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Greetings! Myself and two collecting associates are headed off to Tampa and south to the Keys and S. Florida on Saturday. Alas, we have heard things are VERY dry in South Florida. Any updates from the locals? Any suggestions for good collecting spots, even in central or north Florida, that appear to be currently active? We have permits for all Florida State Parks and Forests, as well as for several of the wildlife refuges in and around the keys. Thanks an advance! Cheers Bruce Bruce Walsh Associate Professor (Associate Editor, Genetics) Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Biosciences West University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 USA email: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu Office: 520 621-1915 Fax (Departmental) 520 621 9190 home page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu" Quantitative Genetics page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zbook/book.html" Arizona Moths page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/mothlist.html" Arizona butterflies page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/seazlist.html" From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Thu May 4 14:33:11 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Thu, 04 May 00 18:33:11 GMT Subject: I need help....... References: <3910EFB0.22A174EE@csus.edu>, <3.0.6.32.20000504094106.0088bbd0@mail.airmail.net> Message-ID: <957465191snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <3.0.6.32.20000504094106.0088bbd0 at mail.airmail.net> llrogers at airmail.net "Linda Rogers" writes: > At 08:34 PM 5/3/2000 -0700, Patrick Foley wrote: > Linda and other leppers, > > Don't jump on Neil Jones; just argue out the science. > > That is NOT what Mr. Jones was doing! He > invites stinging replies with his abrasive > and offensive manner. He says he doesn't > want to start a flame war, then proceeds > to insult and offend. My experience suggests that on Usenet the offence taken and the vehemence of the reponse are directly proportional to the accuracy of the original remark. > > In his reply regarding releases he did not > ARGUE THE SCIENCE. He called names: > lawbreakers, dubious salesmen, untruth > peddlers, Logically this statement shows one of two things. 1. Linda Rogers is deliberately misrepresenting what I said. 2. Linda Rogers misunderstood what I said. Just to clarify the point. The lawbreakers were convicted felons nothing to do with the IBBA. The dubious salesmen were people like a chinese "dealer" obscuring his identitiy and trading in endangered species again nothing to do with the IBBA. I was explaining why I respond to this kind of thing on grounds of personal ethics. and accused people of > deliberate deceit and not knowing subject. No I accused people of EITHER deliberate deceit OR not knowing the subject. The fact is that there is an article on your website that is NOT truthful. You are marketing a product and an idea by using statements that are NOT TRUTHFUL. It is my duty as an honest and ethical citizen to point this out to those who may not realise it. It is abundantly and obviously clear that the statment you use to justify yourself does not refer to the subject to which you claim. YOu have misquoted a scientist to say something which he does not say. This is NOT truthful. > He discredits in a petty fashion to convince > the reader to take his opinion. Or, he's > "protecting" them from lying carpetbaggers > (since the reader's not intelligent enough to > read for themselves and form their own > opinion). Intelligence has little to do with it, accurate truthful information does. I believe quite strongly that not to respond when ideas are peddled which are not truthful would be unethical. > The "Bimbo and Rambo" comment, > was that ARGUING SCIENCE?? This sort of I obviously got through with this one didn't I :-) I was arguing that people get mislead if they are presented with information that is NOT TRUTHFUL. I picked two names that suggested cluelessness. > attack and negative behavior does not open > the door to learning nor to any thoughtful > dialog between groups. Well It was not I who started being negative. The IBBA membership has constantly attacked and attempted to undermine the North American Butterfly Association because they want proper laws protecting butterflies and their habitats. The social changes needed for this are against the COMMERCIAL interests of the IBBA. > Linda Rogers, Member > International Butterfly Breeder's Association > www.butterflybreeders.org -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Thu May 4 13:54:52 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Thu, 04 May 00 17:54:52 GMT Subject: I need help....... References: <957361101snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk>, <3.0.6.32.20000503203335.0088fe70@mail.airmail.net> Message-ID: <957462892snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <3.0.6.32.20000503203335.0088fe70 at mail.airmail.net> llrogers at airmail.net "Linda Rogers" writes: > At 01:38 PM 5/3/2000 GMT, > > Neil Jones wrote: > In article <390985D4.23E96982 at epix.net> butrfly at epix.net "Rick Mikula" writes: > > > *************************************** > Neil Jones replied: > > I have no wish to start a flame war. Those who know me know that I have > often spoken out against lawbreakers and dubious salesmen. > > WHO ARE THE LAWBREAKERS? WHAT DUBIOUS > SALESMEN? There is no need to shout. Using capitals is by convention seen as shouting. It is far better to allow oneself to calm down before responding. The offence you read into something is not always there in emails. This is something I have learned myself. I have not and am not always perfect at expressing myself either. I was speaking about my past actions. Illustrating that I regard myself as an honest and ethical citizen who like any responsible member of society speaks out against wrongdoing. Specifically I meant the lawbreakers being a group of convicted fellons one of whom "went postal" on the net spraying all sorts of inaccurate information. These people had been involved in a big case poaching from protected areas and trading in protected species. The criminal indictment ran to eighty five pages. There are a number of dubious sales activities I have spoken against but the one in my mind was a chinese dealer in "antiques" and rare butterflies was repeatedly posting this list with messages to trade in CITES species. He was deliberately using convoluted methods to hide and obscure his identity. I was aware of this because of specialist knowledge I have of the internet and I therefore warned everybody about this and about the nature of the species involved. > > Those who peddle untruths in an attempt to deceive the innocent. > > ARE THEY UNTRUTHS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T YOUR > VIEWS/BELIEFS?? WHAT UNTRUTHS DO YOU > REFER TO? As I said above. Those who represent themselves falsely. > I am not doing this to pick a fight but because I know something that I > believe that someone else should know before they make a judgement. That is > to say that someone is trying to deceive people into believing something > which is not truthful. I am a conservationist and I know there are a > number of anti-conservation activists about so I risk attracting flames. > > NO FLAMES, BUT DEFINITELY A RESPONSE. Many people will see your responses as flaming, but I will endevour to turn the other cheek. > The web site which Mr Mikula refers to is not truthful. > The fact is that ALL insect conservation bodies oppose what this site is > peddling. > > BECAUSE SOMEONE'S OPINIONS ARE IN OPPOSITION > TO YOURS, THIS MEANS THEY ARE UNTRUE? No what it the web site says, in the example I pointed out, is not truthful It can be shown to be not truthful by logic. If an organisation says things that are not truthful it is normal from people to tend to distrust it. My concern was that people would not realise that a statement was not truthful so as an honest and ethical citizen I felt that it was my duty to point it out. > My concerns are that while it could be argued that there are two sides to > an argument, this "breeders" website contains information which the > informed will know thoroughly discredits them. I consider that since I know > this I should say so. After all it is only good citizenship to point out to > your fellows when someone is trying to get them to buy a product or an idea > which is peddled by marketing that is not truthful. > > IT IS JUST AS IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT TO > PEOPLE THAT THEY NEED TO READ ALL THEY > CAN TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS, AND NOT JUST > LISTEN TO ONE PERSON'S IDEAS. DON'T YOU > THINK PEOPLE ARE CAPABLE OF FORMING > INTELLIGENT OPINIONS WITHOUT YOU TELLING > THEM WHAT THEY SHOULD THINK AND BELIEVE? Please do not shout. I cannot tell people what to think. I do however believe that it is my duty as a responsible member of society to point out when something is being said in a commercial context that is not truthful. Not to so so would be like standing by while one of your friends is being conned. > THEY CAN READ YOUR IDEAS AND OPINIONS > AND THOSE IDEAS AND OPINIONS ON THE > WWW.BUTTERFLYBREEDERS.ORG WEBSITE, AND > FORM A PERSONAL OPINION ALL THEIR OWN > WITHOUT YOU TELLING THEM IT IS ALL WRONG. > > The website quotes a scientist as saying that the kind of releases that it > supports are OK when in fact he is saying the opposite. That releases > should only be performed as part of a scientifically controlled process, > NOT at the wedding of "Bimbo and Rambo" :-) > > IF YOU ARE GOING TO QUOTE SOMETHING, > AT LEAST DO IT ACCURATELY: > > From The Illustrated Encyclopedia of the > Butterfly World by Paul Smart-- > last page of the introduction, > last sentence: > > "... A positive contribution may be made by aiding > conservation projects and by helping to > breed and release healthy butterflies in > suitable habitats, though this should always > be done as part of a documented and > properly organized project." > > NOT "SCIENTIFICALLY CONTROLLED PROCESS" AS > YOU WROTE. DON'T TWIST THINGS AROUND. There is a social context here. Paul Smart is speaking as someone based in the UK. I recognise his statment as a standard kind of expression that has been said in similar ways by many people. I know of several of the kind of project he means and I believe that my description is accurate. I do not believe that any reasonable person could truthfully believe that he is talking about releasing Monarchs at weddings. Yet he has been represented as doing such this is not truthful > BIMBO AND RAMBO?? WHAT A WITTY ONE YOU ARE. Well my attempts at humour are not appreciated by everyone. I suppose being in the UK my sense of humour is different to yours. However I don't believe that anyone with a good knowledge of conservation practice would buy your ideas. Therefore I tried to find an image which would represent someone without a lot of sense. It seems from the vehemence of your response that I have to some extend succeded. > > Now there are two possible reasons why they say this :- > > 1. They are deliberately deceiving people. > 2. They do not know the subject well enough to comment. > > Either way they are discredited. By all means visit the site but remember > the information is wrong. > > WE DO KNOW THE SUBJECT AND HAVE SCIENTISTS It is regrettable that I have not succeded in persuading you that you are wrong. I do not pretend to have the answers to everything amd there is much that I still have to learn about butterflies but the fact is that you are giving the clear impression that you do not know the subject well. The scientist you are quoting is not saying something which refers to releasing monarchs at weddings he is talking about conservation projects. You are not being truthful in describing him this way. If as you say you are not doing this deliberately then I am prepared to accept this, however this clearly means that you so not understand what he really means. The fact is if the IBBA is to have any credibilty it should come over as truthful and honest. To me it does not do this and the way you and your colleagues have tried to besmirch me does not impress me and I am sure it will have the same effect on the many friends I have. > WITH ACCREDITATION EQUAL TO OR EXCEEDING YOURS > THAT DISAGREE WITH YOU. SINCE WE BELIEVE > WE "KNOW" THE SUBJECT, THEN WE ARE NOT > DELIBERATELY DECEIVING PEOPLE. WE SIMPLY > HAVE OUR BELIEFS, AS YOU DO. Well you are entitled to believe what you like. You can believe that the earth is flat and sits on a turtle supported by four elephants if you like. However there is a big difference between blind faith and science. You can believe as strongly as you like that Paul Smart is by some miraculous means endorsing the releasing of Monarchs at weddings. The fact is the statement he has made does not support your contention and to describe it as such is not truthful. In fact I think that if statements were made to advertise your product in this way in the UK, they would certainly fall foul of the regulations. These regulations are designed to protect the consumer. I believe that it is the duty of any honest and upright citizen to point out when people are being sold a product by means that are not truthful. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Thu May 4 16:02:29 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:02:29 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: > Can you present us with a math based model that describes the assumptions > that would have to be made for this type of harm to realized? There is one type of 'harm' that does not need a mathematical model, other than some very general statements. What happens when a widely dispersing species is being raised and released in an area at or near its extreme limit of dispersion--when a biological survey is being carried out in that same area? There is a significant chance of false positives for the occurrence of that species--since the number released may be larger (even _much_ larger) than the number that would disperse naturally to the region. For a specific case, consider the Painted Lady in Interior Alaska. This species is known to reach Alaska occasionally--I have a small series of very worn specimens from the north shore of the Kenai Peninsula--but there were no records from Interior Alaska until 1986, when I obtained a (suspiciously) fresh specimen from the summit of Ester Dome, near Fairbanks. It is not impossible that this was a natural occurrence--but at about the same time I became aware that Painted Ladies were being raised by a number of classes in Fairbanks elementary schools--and in all cases the adults were then released outdoors in late spring. Ester Dome is a known site for hiltopping in the Fairbanks area, and thus can act to concentrate species that are very thin on the ground. I would guess (and I admit it's only a guess) that it is far more probable that this specimen was raised and released in Fairbanks than that it flew here under its own power. At any rate, the specimen cannot be used to prove natural dispersal to Interior Alaska--and nor can subsequent specimens unless the numbers are very large (which is unlikely). Oh well, at least the schools aren't releasing Monarchs. At this time, there is no record of a Monarch from Alaska. Many people in both Alaska and the Yukon claim to have seen Monarchs--there is even a 'Monarch Road' in Fairbanks--but upon questioning they all turn out to have seen (Canadian) Tiger Swallowtails. But it's presumably only a matter of time before a locally-released Monarch is captured somewhere in Alaska... Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From ian at ijwaller.demon.co.uk Thu May 4 16:11:06 2000 From: ian at ijwaller.demon.co.uk (ian john waller) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 21:11:06 +0100 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE LEPS-L Message-ID: UNSUBSCRIBE LEPS-L -- ian john waller From bvholder at bigfoot.com Thu May 4 17:16:39 2000 From: bvholder at bigfoot.com (Bart Vanholder) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 23:16:39 +0200 Subject: Migrant Lepidoptera in EU Message-ID: <000801bfb60e$0b892d40$6009eec3@bs663526.skynet.be> Dear Leps-L Migrant Lepidoptera showed up in N/W- Europea during the last week. We have several reports of migration of V. cardui, P. xylostella and M. stellatarum. Who can add more information on http://users.skynet.be/bs663526/news.htm Regards From llrogers at airmail.net Thu May 4 18:15:09 2000 From: llrogers at airmail.net (Linda Rogers) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 17:15:09 -0500 Subject: I need help....... In-Reply-To: <957462892snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> References: <957361101snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20000503203335.0088fe70@mail.airmail.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000504171509.0089e210@mail.airmail.net> I WAS NOT SHOUTING in my e-mail. Using all capital letters was done to set my words apart from yours and Rick Mikula's, that's all. One of you had already indented, so I used caps for my comments. Linda Rogers IBBA Member "The sun shines not on us, but in us. The rivers flow not past, but through us." -- John Muir From habitatdesigns at hotmail.com Thu May 4 18:43:02 2000 From: habitatdesigns at hotmail.com (Paulette Haywood) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 15:43:02 PDT Subject: Southern hairstreak Message-ID: <20000504224302.61961.qmail@hotmail.com> Does anyone know a good place to locate Southern hairstreak (Satyrium favonius)? Gulf coast locations are especially appreciated. Thanks, Paulette Haywood ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From butrfly at epix.net Thu May 4 19:47:23 2000 From: butrfly at epix.net (Rick Mikula) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 19:47:23 -0400 Subject: Oh Why Not Message-ID: <39120C0B.555CF3A6@epix.net> As long as everyone is putting those cute little "I going to change your philosophy forever" doodads at the end of their postings I would like to do likewise. To All; "History teaches that having the whole world against you doesn't necessarily mean you will lose." Ashleigh Brilliant's Pot-Shot # 7521 Hug and Kisses Rick From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu May 4 21:13:14 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 21:13:14 -0400 Subject: Faunal records In-Reply-To: Kenelm Philip "Re: I need help......." (May 4, 12:02pm) References: Message-ID: <1000504211317.ZM3622@Gochfeld> I snoympathize with Ken's frustration over interpreting the Lady record. Of course bird people have had to worry about this for years since many exotic species are kept in aviaries and zoos, and there is always a question (particularly regarding waterfowl, parrots and finches) about whether an observed exotic is "real" or "escaped". Dick Ryan wrote several articles about the problem. Ironically, one way of detecting an escaped cage bird was that they showed abnormal feather wear (unlike Ken's suspiciously fresh Lady). Ryan pointed out that exotic birds are expensive and zoos and aviaries go to great lengths to avoid losing them. Even when we poll zoos and aviaries about the loss of a bird and get lots of negative responses, there's always a question that someone might be lying or that the bird escaped far away and then travelled. Another irony. When the Bronx Zoo flight cage collapsed in the blizzard of 1996, lots of exotic gulls, cormorants, etc. escaped. The news was carried in the press and birders were alert to these possible "finds", yet very few were recorded, so even when we know that birds escape the probability of detection was low. But who would trust an Inca Tern record on Long Island. The life of a faunistics specialist is filled with more serious challenges---such as verifying old published records when the collection and collector are no longer extant. Mike Gochfeld From cherubini at mindspring.com Thu May 4 18:01:40 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 22:01:40 +0000 Subject: I need help....... References: Message-ID: <3911F344.5138@mindspring.com> Ken Philip wrote: > For a specific case, consider the Painted Lady in Interior Alaska. > This species is known to reach Alaska occasionally--I have a small series > of very worn specimens from the north shore of the Kenai Peninsula--but > there were no records from Interior Alaska until 1986, when I obtained a > (suspiciously) fresh specimen from the summit of Ester Dome, near Fairbanks. > At any rate, the specimen cannot be used to prove natural dispersal to > Interior Alaska--and nor can subsequent specimens unless the numbers are > very large (which is unlikely). During the 14 years from 1986 to 2000 no more fresh Painted Ladies were seen in the Fairbanks region despite continued school releases during this period. And no fresh Painted Ladies were apparently ever seen in Anchorage- a much larger city with 5-10 times as many schools and associated releases. Thus it appears the chance that the faunal record database would record a false positive due to school releases is extremely low. Ken, do the occasional sightings of worn specimens on the Kenai peninsula (presumably somewhat near Anchorage) really prove natural Painted Lady dispersal to coastal Alaska from Mexico or the USA? How do we know for sure these fairly rare Alaskan records of Painted Lady sightings weren't really false positives resulting from butterflies that hitch hiked on ships from USA or Canadian seaports (the way monarchs do from the USA to England each year)? Michael Gochfeld wrote: > Perhaps we should be considering releases in a risk assessment > framework. What is the probability that something bad will happen. Most > likely it is small, but what is "small". Moreover, there are at least > two dimensions to "risk": probability and consequence. We need to > recognize that even highly improbable events might have substantial > consequence. Optimists focal on the low probability and pessimists on > the high cost of being wrong. The bottom line seem to be deciding what is an acceptable risk standard in regard to both probability and consequence. The pro-release community considers a negligible risk standard as appropriate as do federal regulatory agencies like the EPA in deciding matters such as acceptable levels of pesticides in our food. The anti-release community is in favor of a zero risk standard; i.e. Glassberg, Pyle & Tuttle say they want releases of commercially obtained butterflies permanently banned) For example, Bob Pyle has stated he feels a zero risk standard is appropriate in regard to eliminating the chance of even one false positive sighting of a monarch ever being recorded in his home state of Washington due to a school or wedding/funeral release. Paul Cherubini From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Fri May 5 01:21:44 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 21:21:44 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Faunal records Message-ID: Michael Gochfeld noted: > The life of a faunistics specialist is filled with more serious > challenges---such as verifying old published records when the collection > and collector are no longer extant. Not to mention the strange things you can find in museum collec- tions! There are specimens in both the AMNH and LACM carrying Alaska locality labels that I cannot believe ever were anywhere near even the southernmost tip of Alaska. Apparently some material from the Comstock collection was incorrectly labeled... _Oeneis nevadensis_ from Kodiak Island?(!) Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From butterflies at value.net Fri May 5 01:56:59 2000 From: butterflies at value.net (Sharyn Fernandez) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 22:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: IN regards to Ken's comments: >It is not impossible that this was a natural occurrence--but at about the >same time I became aware that Painted Ladies were being raised by a number >of classes in Fairbanks elementary schools--and in all cases the adults >were then released outdoors in late spring. > Hmm... that's the way I felt about planting our Valley Oak trees in places where they "probably" (?) would have grown if it weren't for "cattle grazing". It was my opinion that we should just wait and see the course 'mother nature' would take (despite roads, and other development anyway). But in defense of releases - Among other reasons, they help the 'web of life' in one regard - giving protection to more butterflies to 'fly free', and support other members of their food chain in the end, that hopefully benefits all down the line, just as if I guess I should have realized, and thanks you your posting, now do appreciate having more trees (even planted)that not only provide more oxygen, but more "homes" for critters in the environment. thanks peace & aloha S. Sharyn Fernandez, Concord CA 37deg..57 min N; 121 deg, 52 min. W Butterflies & Botany From butterflies at value.net Fri May 5 01:57:12 2000 From: butterflies at value.net (Sharyn Fernandez) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 22:57:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: Rick, et.al, At the risk of sounding "cavalier", I think it's "their problem" if some do not see "releases" as "OK" - I think it better for the 'industry' if you will, if NABA didn't approve of it - because 'everybody' would then be attempting it .. not exactly a sensitive response I guess, just my personal opinion... which I reserve the right to change at any time! Why are these people jumping on nurserymen? Peace - S. Sharyn Fernandez, Concord CA 37deg..57 min N; 121 deg, 52 min. W Butterflies & Botany From butterflies at value.net Fri May 5 01:57:23 2000 From: butterflies at value.net (Sharyn Fernandez) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 22:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Releases Message-ID: > Famous 18th century quotation, "Why don't we release a few European >Starlings in the Shakespeare Garden here in Central Park in New York City. >It will be lovely, just like back in England. What harm can a few starlings >do?" Don't mix the apples with the oranges ? Peace S. Sharyn Fernandez, Concord CA 37deg..57 min N; 121 deg, 52 min. W Butterflies & Botany From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Fri May 5 06:00:25 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 02:00:25 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: Paul Cherubini said: > During the 14 years from 1986 to 2000 no more fresh Painted Ladies were > seen in the Fairbanks region despite continued school releases during this > period. > Thus it appears the chance that the faunal record database would record a > false positive due to school releases is extremely low. The chance of such a false positive cannot be estimated from the absence of captures 1987-2000, for the simple reason that I am the only collector involved in the Fairbanks area--and most summers I am off at some remote site (Yukon, NWT, Russia, northern or western Alaska) during the relevant time period. "Absence of proof is not proof of absence." > ...do the occasional sightings of worn specimens on the Kenai peninsula > (presumably somewhat near Anchorage) really prove natural Painted Lady > dispersal to coastal Alaska from Mexico or the USA? One can never be sure about a given specimen--but there is enough evidence that SW US butterflies can disperse this far north. Both _V. cardui_ and _V. atalanta_ have been found in the Yukon (Carmacks and Haines Junction, respectively), and _V. atalanta_ has been found in SE and Southcentral Alaska. There is also one record of _H. isola_ from Wiseman, Alaska. All these species are noted for northward dispersal flights... The Kenai Peninsula _cardui_ were caught in 1973, which may have been before the schools up here began releasing them--but I'm not sure about that. I also remember the summer of 1975, when the geometrid _Rheumap- tera hastata_ (which normally occurs in taiga) suddenly appeared on the arctic coast of Alaska, and also in the interior of Victoria Island where I was collecting. There had been strong south winds for several days, and the moth was having a major outbreak in the taiga. I had not expected to find that species flying (in some numbers) in arctic rock desert well before the local butterflies had emerged... Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Fri May 5 07:30:57 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 07:30:57 -0400 Subject: There are releases and releases In-Reply-To: Kenelm Philip "Re: I need help......." (May 5, 2:00am) References: Message-ID: <1000505073100.ZM3550@Gochfeld> Ken raised an interesting historical question. Were there butterfly releases in 1973. I'm sure this list represents people of very diverse ages and very diverse localities and elementary schooling. We can identify our own experiences both regarding whether we raised and/or released butterflies in school and when we heard of butterfly releases at social events. I'll start. I graduated high school in 1957. We did have a junior Audubon Society in 4th grade (birds only) and a school botanical garden, but no raising of butterflies. We did dissect frogs in 10th grade biology. I never heard of a butterfly release here in NJ until about 1990. Mike Gochfeld From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Fri May 5 07:32:25 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 07:32:25 -0400 Subject: additional comment on raising In-Reply-To: Kenelm Philip "Re: I need help......." (May 5, 2:00am) References: Message-ID: <1000505073228.ZM3550@Gochfeld> I should add that although I raised a few butterflies and moths during high school, I kept that practice to myself---not socially acceptable among high school kids. I had enough problems being known as a bird watcher. MIKE GOCHFELD From rboutin at sympatico.ca Fri May 5 08:14:35 2000 From: rboutin at sympatico.ca (RENE BOUTIN) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 08:14:35 -0400 Subject: I need help....... References: <3910EFB0.22A174EE@csus.edu> <3.0.6.32.20000504094106.0088bbd0@mail.airmail.net> <957465191snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3912BB2B.FF6B1798@sympatico.ca> At one time people were talking about making two leps-list, one european one american and at that time I thought it was a good idea and that it might takeMr. Jones off our back and I still think so,would their be other advantages Thank you. Monsieur Papillon Neil Jones wrote: > In article <3.0.6.32.20000504094106.0088bbd0 at mail.airmail.net> > llrogers at airmail.net "Linda Rogers" writes: > > > At 08:34 PM 5/3/2000 -0700, Patrick Foley wrote: > > Linda and other leppers, > > > > Don't jump on Neil Jones; just argue out the science. > > > > That is NOT what Mr. Jones was doing! He > > invites stinging replies with his abrasive > > and offensive manner. He says he doesn't > > want to start a flame war, then proceeds > > to insult and offend. > > My experience suggests that on Usenet the offence taken and the > vehemence of the reponse are directly proportional to the accuracy > of the original remark. > > > > > In his reply regarding releases he did not > > ARGUE THE SCIENCE. He called names: > > lawbreakers, dubious salesmen, untruth > > peddlers, > > Logically this statement shows one of two things. > > 1. Linda Rogers is deliberately misrepresenting what I said. > 2. Linda Rogers misunderstood what I said. > > Just to clarify the point. The lawbreakers were convicted felons nothing > to do with the IBBA. The dubious salesmen were people like a chinese "dealer" > obscuring his identitiy and trading in endangered species again nothing > to do with the IBBA. I was explaining why I respond to this kind of thing > on grounds of personal ethics. > > and accused people of > > deliberate deceit and not knowing subject. > > No I accused people of EITHER deliberate deceit OR not knowing the subject. > > The fact is that there is an article on your website that is NOT truthful. > You are marketing a product and an idea by using statements that are > NOT TRUTHFUL. It is my duty as an honest and ethical citizen to point this > out to those who may not realise it. > > It is abundantly and obviously clear that the statment you use to justify > yourself does not refer to the subject to which you claim. > YOu have misquoted a scientist to say something which he does not say. > This is NOT truthful. > > > He discredits in a petty fashion to convince > > the reader to take his opinion. Or, he's > > "protecting" them from lying carpetbaggers > > (since the reader's not intelligent enough to > > read for themselves and form their own > > opinion). > > Intelligence has little to do with it, accurate truthful information does. > I believe quite strongly that not to respond when ideas are peddled > which are not truthful would be unethical. > > > The "Bimbo and Rambo" comment, > > was that ARGUING SCIENCE?? This sort of > > I obviously got through with this one didn't I :-) > I was arguing that people get mislead if they are presented with information > that is NOT TRUTHFUL. I picked two names that suggested cluelessness. > > > attack and negative behavior does not open > > the door to learning nor to any thoughtful > > dialog between groups. > > Well It was not I who started being negative. The IBBA membership > has constantly attacked and attempted to undermine the North American > Butterfly Association because they want proper laws protecting butterflies > and their habitats. The social changes needed for this are against the > COMMERCIAL interests of the IBBA. > > > Linda Rogers, Member > > International Butterfly Breeder's Association > > www.butterflybreeders.org > > -- > Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ > "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the > butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog > National Nature Reserve From rboutin at sympatico.ca Fri May 5 08:25:49 2000 From: rboutin at sympatico.ca (RENE BOUTIN) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 08:25:49 -0400 Subject: I need help....... References: Message-ID: <3912BDCD.269A92F2@sympatico.ca> and what harm does that do to nature ,it might change something in your books that`s about it. Kenelm Philip wrote: > > Can you present us with a math based model that describes the assumptions > > that would have to be made for this type of harm to realized? > > There is one type of 'harm' that does not need a mathematical > model, other than some very general statements. What happens when a widely > dispersing species is being raised and released in an area at or near its > extreme limit of dispersion--when a biological survey is being carried out > in that same area? There is a significant chance of false positives for > the occurrence of that species--since the number released may be larger > (even _much_ larger) than the number that would disperse naturally to the > region. > > For a specific case, consider the Painted Lady in Interior Alaska. > This species is known to reach Alaska occasionally--I have a small series > of very worn specimens from the north shore of the Kenai Peninsula--but > there were no records from Interior Alaska until 1986, when I obtained a > (suspiciously) fresh specimen from the summit of Ester Dome, near Fairbanks. > It is not impossible that this was a natural occurrence--but at about the > same time I became aware that Painted Ladies were being raised by a number > of classes in Fairbanks elementary schools--and in all cases the adults > were then released outdoors in late spring. Ester Dome is a known site > for hiltopping in the Fairbanks area, and thus can act to concentrate > species that are very thin on the ground. I would guess (and I admit it's > only a guess) that it is far more probable that this specimen was raised > and released in Fairbanks than that it flew here under its own power. > At any rate, the specimen cannot be used to prove natural dispersal to > Interior Alaska--and nor can subsequent specimens unless the numbers are > very large (which is unlikely). > > Oh well, at least the schools aren't releasing Monarchs. At this > time, there is no record of a Monarch from Alaska. Many people in both > Alaska and the Yukon claim to have seen Monarchs--there is even a 'Monarch > Road' in Fairbanks--but upon questioning they all turn out to have seen > (Canadian) Tiger Swallowtails. But it's presumably only a matter of time > before a locally-released Monarch is captured somewhere in Alaska... > > Ken Philip > fnkwp at uaf.edu From butrfly at epix.net Fri May 5 09:42:45 2000 From: butrfly at epix.net (Rick Mikula) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 09:42:45 -0400 Subject: French Breeders Message-ID: <3912CFD5.FF0DF583@epix.net> If any one is currently breeding butterflies in France would you please privately contact flutterbies at dol.net Thank You R. Mikula From viceroy at anu.ie Fri May 5 10:01:12 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 15:01:12 +0100 Subject: There are releases and releases References: <1000505073100.ZM3550@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <3912D428.EC85A58B@anu.ie> I've been working with schools in the South Florida area since 1987 or so. When we began, classes were rearing and releasing Painted ladies, as many classes still do. I think now it is more common for them to rear caterpillars from their own butterfly gardens, which are then released. While that puts a gentle thumb on the scale in favor of the unfit (they find the stupid, careless caterpillars, which then survive at the expense of the canny ones) I am assured by the cognoscenti that it'll all be the same in a hundred years. As for Paul and Neil, the butterflies are fortunate to have such sincere well-wishers. Each might, however take a lesson from Albert the Alligator, Pogo's friend, wo once remarked "Don't take life so serious, son; it ain't nohow permanent." None of us is right enough or wrong enough to matter, and while we batter at each other, the spring is sliding by on greased skids. Go outside and pester some nettles in search of caterpillars. That's enough stimulation for most of us, and you can make a strengthening soup with the young shoots, extending the useful life of the nettle vis a vis the caterpillars. The green-winged whites are flying, hundreds of them (well, two, moving very fast) and the speckled wood, though still solitary, is hopeful. The copper beech is just unfolding its leaves, and, after a month of dark rainy days, three full days of sunshine have forced even the columbines into early bloom. I'm going out and play. Trees full of apple blossom, lilacs ripening into bloom, already enticing the wandering butterflies ... And if you want to crusade, for Heaven's sake quit throwing stones at each other and go lie in front of a bulldozer. Those are the bad guys. Anne Kilmer County Mayo, Ireland Michael Gochfeld wrote: > > Ken raised an interesting historical question. Were there butterfly > releases in 1973. I'm sure this list represents people of very diverse > ages and very diverse localities and elementary schooling. We can > identify our own experiences both regarding whether we raised and/or > released butterflies in school and when we heard of butterfly releases > at social events. > > I'll start. > > I graduated high school in 1957. We did have a junior Audubon Society > in 4th grade (birds only) and a school botanical garden, but no raising > of butterflies. We did dissect frogs in 10th grade biology. > I never heard of a butterfly release here in NJ until about > 1990. > > Mike Gochfeld From ewilliam at hamilton.edu Fri May 5 10:08:50 2000 From: ewilliam at hamilton.edu (Ernest Williams) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:08:50 -0400 Subject: one list In-Reply-To: <3912BB2B.FF6B1798@sympatico.ca> References: <3910EFB0.22A174EE@csus.edu> <3.0.6.32.20000504094106.0088bbd0@mail.airmail.net> <957465191snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: I hope the list does not split. No matter what list you're on, there are always some people on it who you don't want to hear/read....and there are always more messages you want to skip over than there are those you want to read. That is the nature of listservs. I value having a single primary lep listserv with inputs from people in other countries and on other continents. (Yes, I know the obvious rejoinders that you can subscribe to multiple listservs, etc.; splitting is the answer only when the traffic becomes too heavy or the interests of the participants too divergent.) Ernest Williams >At one time people were talking about making two leps-list, one european one >american and at that time I thought it was a good idea and that it might >takeMr. >Jones off our back and I still think so,would their be other advantages > From jmason at ink.org Fri May 5 10:49:49 2000 From: jmason at ink.org (Jim Mason) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:49:49 -0500 Subject: Nabokov article is online Message-ID: <000901bfb6a1$2fa20380$c49ec9a5@wp.state.ks.us> The cover story in the April issue of the Atlantic on Vladimir Nabokov is now online at: http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/04/nabokov.htm The online version is missing a couple of photos from the magazine, but it has a lot of other content that is not in the print version. Jim Mason, Naturalist jmason at ink.org (316) 683-5499 x103 Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th St. N. Wichita, KS 67220-2200 http://www.gpnc.org From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Fri May 5 07:22:37 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Fri, 05 May 00 11:22:37 GMT Subject: I need help....... References: <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net>, <957361101snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk>, <39108E5F.EB0B7049@epix.net> Message-ID: <957525757snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <39108E5F.EB0B7049 at epix.net> butrfly at epix.net "Rick Mikula" writes: > > > Neil Jones wrote: > > > I have no wish to start a flame war. > > Mr. Jones > You are welcomed to disagree with the PHD's and scientist in the > IBBA organization, however I must disagree you. It does seem that > your only purpose in life is to start flame wars. > But I guess we all need hobbies. > R. Mikula I said that my original post would attract flames. Mr Mikula accuses me of only wanting to start flame wars. This is not my motivation. My motivation is that of an honest upright citizen who speaks out when he sees some one trying to sell a neighbour something by means that are NOT TRUTHFUL. The people involved in the commercial trade of monarchs at weddings know this and are now resorting to personal smears. I speak out not to start flame wars but to inform people when I know that someone is doing wrong. A few months ago I did this when a chinese "trader" was trying to sell endangered species on the net. He was doing so in a manner that attempted to hide his true identity. I spoke out and once people realised what was happening there was general consensus. Imagine however if there was an "Association of Endangered Species Traders" that believed that what they were doing was OK. We might well have had a flame war on our hands. I speak out because I think it is the moral and ethical thing to do to help those who may be mislead. I consistently do so from the view point of a good neighbour. I have to be blunt because, frankly, it is the only way to get your message across. If you try to be subtle your message gets lost. I try not to be personal in my responses but I am only human and I have had some really filthy venom poured at me from the IBBA membership. It is also difficult to point out that someone is NOT TRUTHFUL without it being seen as a personal attack. It is a difficult thing to do and I am far from perfect at it, but my motivation is one of ethics. TO illustrate the point about being subtle read the piece below. It is by Royce Bitzer and is a hillarious spoof piece on "The Butterflies as Baubles Business". However many people saw it is an attack on the respected scientist Dr Pyle. Royce Bitzer actually got attacked as a result. Interestingly the piece predicts fancy coloured monarchs being breed for release and we have recently seen that this is actually happening. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In regards to the live butterfly trade, I've seen the light! Struck down like Paul on the road to Damascus, I've come to realize that Robert Michael Pyle, author of that alarmist book, _Chasing Monarchs_, is a stuffy old coot who's dreadfully out of touch with the times. Communist as well, most likely. Living in that old Honda for months at a time, not working at a real job. And grousing about the butterfly trade! Were he a real American, he'd know that the road to success is to find something that people once enjoyed for free, sequester the supply, then sell it back to them for a price. So I've decided to follow the old adage, "If you can't lick 'em, join 'em!" If you'll bear with me, I'll tell you about my new little venture.... Imagine the perfect finale to your perfect wedding--the two of you, hand-in-hand, striding together into the future through a swirling cloud of beautiful Monarch Butterflies.... But with ordinary Monarchs, things can go sadly wrong. Your guests unwrap the envelopes with eager anticipation--and the butterflies drop to the ground, stone dead. Or the butterflies catch a passing breeze and hightail it off to Mexico. Or--you've seen releases at your friends' weddings--and felt that tiny twinge of disappointment every consumer knows from time to time. "If only the Monarchs were just a bit bigger," you lamented. "And couldn't they make them in other colors besides orange?" Your deepest imaginings have now been realized. Introducing...Monarchs Plus ^TM Bigger, Better Bioengineered Butterflies (_Danaus plexippus domesticus_) Including these new and improved features: + Reared from genetically-modified, Bt-resistant larvae + Bigger is better--6" minimum wingspread + Will live up to 3 times longer in a paper envelope. Say goodbye to inconvenient and embarrassing die-offs + Scientifically bred to fly in circles--will sail round and round above your wedding and stick around for the reception + Guaranteed not to fly north in the fall + Choose from a variety of biodesigner colors: Traditional Orange--First-time Bridal White--Glowing Green--Morpho Blue--Passionate Purple--Pretty in Pink---Ravishing Red + Will interbreed with wild-type Monarchs--Do your part to improve the species, the ecology, the World! Capture the imagination of Children! The transcendental experience of a butterfly release will give them an instant environmental education and lead them to True Understanding of their place in the world! Once you've experienced the miracle of Monarchs Plus ^TM, ordinary butterflies just won't do. Breeder$! Take advantage of this unique opportunity and net yourself some ca$h on the wing! When this many butterflies are loose on one continent, _someone_ is bound to exploit them sooner or later. Shouldn't that someone be you? For information on becoming a Monarchs Plus ^TM franchisee, please contact me at the address below. (I also know of some great beachfront property right here in Ames, Iowa.) Relax! Monarchs Plus ^TM operates within the professional ethics of the International Butterfly Breeders Association (IBBA). Royce J. Bitzer mariposa at iastate.edu Dept. of Entomology 113A Insectary Iowa State University Ames, Iowa 50011 Phone: (515): 294-8663 -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From cherubini at mindspring.com Fri May 5 06:25:56 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 10:25:56 +0000 Subject: I need help....... References: Message-ID: <3912A1B4.442C@mindspring.com> Ken Philip wrote: > One can never be sure about a given specimen--but there is enough > evidence that SW US butterflies can disperse this far north. Both _V. > cardui_ and _V. atalanta_ have been found in the Yukon (Carmacks and > Haines Junction, respectively), and _V. atalanta_ has been found in SE > and Southcentral Alaska. There is also one record of _H. isola_ from > Wiseman, Alaska. All these species are noted for northward dispersal > flights... I agree it looks like both the Red Admiral and Painted Lady stray as far north as interior Alaska on occassion. The Monarch has strayed as far north as the Yukon and Hudson's Bay too - far out of range of it's milkweed host plant. Now I am wondering what are the northernmost breeding records for the Red Admiral and Painted Lady? It would seem a more serious issue if school releases caused false positive breeding records. I have not heard of any to date. > The Kenai Peninsula _cardui_ were caught in 1973, which may > have been before the schools up here began releasing them--but I'm > not sure about that. Insect Lore - the company that supplies schools with Painted Ladies began business in 1969. But I don't know how many years it took the owner-entomologist Carlos White to get his business established in remote areas like Alaska. The spring of 1973 was an outbreak year for Painted Ladies here in California in April. At this time the butterflies are in moderate to heavily faded condition. These older butterflies could have reachedthe Anchorage area of Alaska by June if they could cover an average of about 30 miles per day (as monarchs do) through the intense cold, rain and overcast of the west coast of Canada and Alaska, but I wonder how realistic this is? And I wonder if the moderately worn Painted Ladies migrating north in California in April are capable of living to June? Paul Cherubini From eric.w.hossler at vanderbilt.edu Fri May 5 13:36:44 2000 From: eric.w.hossler at vanderbilt.edu (hossleew) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:36:44 -0500 Subject: additional comment on raising Message-ID: <39131D0A@webgate1.mail.vanderbilt.edu> I have been raising moths for years, through high school and now in college. I am surprised that most people are actually accepting of this habit, but then again I don't advertise it but to those closest to me. I feel your pain. -eric From Wayne.F.Wehling at usda.gov Fri May 5 13:41:30 2000 From: Wayne.F.Wehling at usda.gov (Wayne F Wehling) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 13:41:30 -0400 Subject: Butterfly releases Message-ID: <"000505174324Z.WT12644. 1*/PN=Wayne.F.Wehling/OU=APHISNOTES/O=APHIS/PRMD=GOV+USDA/ADMD=ATTMAIL/C=US/"@MHS> I remember rearing monarchs and cercropia moths in the classroom in 4th grade science, 1967. I don't recall how many we released, but we did release some. Cheers, Wayne Wehling From eric.w.hossler at vanderbilt.edu Fri May 5 13:53:27 2000 From: eric.w.hossler at vanderbilt.edu (hossleew) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:53:27 -0500 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <39132177@webgate1.mail.vanderbilt.edu> unsubscribe eric.w.hossler at vanderbilt.edu From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Fri May 5 12:37:01 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Fri, 05 May 00 16:37:01 GMT Subject: I need help....... References: Message-ID: <957544621snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article butterflies at value.net "Sharyn Fernandez" writes: > IN regards to Ken's comments: > >It is not impossible that this was a natural occurrence--but at about the > >same time I became aware that Painted Ladies were being raised by a number > >of classes in Fairbanks elementary schools--and in all cases the adults > >were then released outdoors in late spring. > > > Hmm... that's the way I felt about planting our Valley Oak trees in places > where they "probably" (?) would have grown if it weren't for "cattle > grazing". It was my opinion that we should just wait and see the course > 'mother nature' would take (despite roads, and other development anyway). > But in defense of releases - Among other reasons, they help the 'web of > life' in one regard - giving protection to more butterflies to 'fly free', > and support other members of their food chain in the end, that hopefully > benefits all down the line, just as if I guess I should have realized, and This is incorrect. The level of the population of a given butterfly species is determined by the resources available to the population. You can only increase the population by increasing the resources. The release of extra individuals will merely displace others. Releasing extra butterflies does not help the "web of life". We have serious conservation problems in the UK that are caused by well meaning but misguided people who think that releases are beneficial. > thanks you your posting, now do appreciate having more trees (even > planted)that not only provide more oxygen, but more "homes" for critters in > the environment. thanks > > peace & aloha > > S. > > Sharyn Fernandez, Concord CA > 37deg..57 min N; 121 deg, 52 min. W > Butterflies & Botany > > > > -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Fri May 5 14:12:34 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:12:34 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: With regard to the 1973 Kenai Peninsula records for _V. cardui_ (Painted Lady), Paul Cherubini asked: > And I wonder if the moderately worn Painted Ladies migrating north in > California in April are capable of living to June? There were 4 specimens in that series, and the collection dates ranged from 5 July through 1 August. Presumably these were from a later flight? Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From Stelenes at aol.com Fri May 5 14:24:24 2000 From: Stelenes at aol.com (Stelenes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 14:24:24 EDT Subject: Fwd: I need help....... Message-ID: In a message dated 5/5/00 10:54:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Neil at NWJONES.DEMON.CO.UK writes: > This is incorrect. The level of the population of a given butterfly species > is determined by the resources available to the population. You can only > increase the population by increasing the resources. The release of extra > individuals will merely displace others. Releasing extra butterflies does > not help the "web of life". We have serious conservation problems in the > UK that are caused by well meaning but misguided people who think > that releases are beneficial. > Neil, Are you convinced of this? Or in the case of migratory butterflies could that be erroneous? I can see how it might be true in a closed, local little greenbelt system like Stevenage especially for a hopelessly territorial bug. Or how about threatened butterflies after adverse natural conditions such as a hurricane...the reestablishment of the Schaus Swallowtail in South Florida? Or perhaps the Chequered Skipper in your backyard? Some are special cases, others are not. Could your statement be validly interpreted by others to say there is no problem with Bt pollen or other toxin killing off a percentage in large areas, since it works with increments in population as well as decrements? Best wishes. Doug Dawn. Woodland, CA. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Neil at NWJONES.DEMON.CO.UK (Neil Jones) Subject: Re: I need help....... Date: Fri, 05 May 00 16:37:01 GMT Size: 3774 Url: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000505/566ff490/attachment.mht From cherubini at mindspring.com Fri May 5 07:56:48 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:56:48 +0000 Subject: I need help....... References: Message-ID: <3912B700.6A5@mindspring.com> Ken Philip wrote: > > With regard to the 1973 Kenai Peninsula records for _V. cardui_ > (Painted Lady) There were 4 specimens in that series, and the collection dates ranged > from 5 July through 1 August. Presumably these were from a later flight? Any idea when the school year ended for elementary school classes in the Kenai Peninsula region in the 70's? Ditto for Fairbanks in the 80's. Was school in session in Fairbanks at the time you spotted a fresh V. cardui on the neaby hill? How far is the hill from the 5 (?) elementary schools in Fairbanks? Just curious - I not trying to make any big statement here. Paul Cherubini From moth at ra.msstate.edu Fri May 5 15:23:51 2000 From: moth at ra.msstate.edu (Richard L. Brown) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 13:23:51 -0600 Subject: Euristrymon favonius Message-ID: A query was made about records for the lycaenid, E. favonius. We have a series of specimens collected May 22, 1980 at Orange Beach, AL (Baldwin Co.), about 250 yards from the Ocean. This site with low dunes and scattered oaks is now part of the Gulf State Park. More extensive and less disturbed habitat of similar type occurs at Bon Secour N.W. Refuge, west of Ocean Springs. Both the Park and Refuge require collecting permits. Richard L. Brown Mississippi Entomological Museum Box 9775 Mississippi State, MS 39762 phone: (662) 325-2085 fax: (662) 325-8837 e-mail: moth at ra.msstate.edu From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Fri May 5 15:24:37 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:24:37 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: Neil Jones said: > The level of the population of a given butterfly species is determined > by the resources available to the population. Some people find this hard to believe--but an article in Nature back in the 1960s ('A Field's Capacity to support a Butterfly Population', Dethier & MacArthur, 1964) provides support. 19,800 larvae of _Melitaea harrisii_ were introduced into a declining colony, which at that time had only 800 autumn larvae. The following autumn the colony had 400 larvae... The extra adults had emigrated elsewhere (including back to the other colonies from which the larvae had been taken). This does not mean that all introductions are doomed to fail. Consider rabbits in Australia, or _P. rapae_ in North America. Furthermore, ecosystems change, as do population levels. After a catastrophic loss within a species, when the basic environment is unaltered, introduced individuals can thrive--although the species will rebound on its own given time. For instance, after yellowjackets knocked most taiga butter- flies in the Fairbanks area down to 1 to 2% of their normal levels, I would have expected that introduced individuals would have done very well. As it was, however, populations recovered in a couple of years on their own. But introducing individuals of a species which is slowly declining in the attempt to reverse the decline does not seem to help. It's more to the point to improve the habitat, rather than just throwing butterflies at it. Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Fri May 5 15:49:47 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:49:47 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: Paul Cherubini inquired: > Any idea when the school year ended for elementary school classes in the > Kenai Peninsula region in the 70's? > Ditto for Fairbanks in the 80's. Was school in session in Fairbanks at > the time you spotted a fresh V. cardui on the neaby hill? How far is the > hill from the 5 (?) elementary schools in Fairbanks? The 15 Fairbanks elementary schools run through 26 May. I don't have the data for the Kenai Peninsula (or Anchorage) but I suspect they would be roughly similar. The Ester Dome _cardui_ was caught 14 June. Ester Dome is about 10 miles from downtown Fairbanks--the distance to schools could be from 5 to 15 miles. Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Fri May 5 15:51:00 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:51:00 -0700 Subject: Population/Resources/Release Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F272B@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> In a recent posting the following statements were made: "The level of the population of a given butterfly species is determined by the resources available to the population. You can only increase the population by increasing the resources. The release of extra individuals will merely displace others. Releasing extra butterflies does not help the "web of life". " While I believe it to be true (truth is not an absolute; it is what one believes to be the truth) that resources available to caterpillars and adults does have an effect on population size; the matter of what determines population size is considerably more complex and subject to stochastic events that defy the efforts of mathematical modellers to capture. Temperature, moisture, predator numbers can all play a significant role in the population level of a butterfly species at a given point in time; population numbers change. I do not agree with the observation that it is only possible to increase a population by increasing the resources. Increase in fecundity due to increased quality of resources is possible as is increasing the population by reducing predation; neither requires an increase in available resources (at least not in a quantitative sense). I am not aware of any literature that presents data for the release of 'extra' butterflies displacing others. I would welcome any citations in this regard. It may be that releasing extra butterflies does not help the web of life but at this point in my life I see no reason to believe that this would be unhelpful or harmful (the fact that some people hold such an opinion does not make it so). The web of life is what it is, it is constantly changing, the balance of nature is a myth, there is no such thing as waste (everything gets used by something) -- what else can I pontificate about to prompt some spirited debate :-) how about, "the web of life has more complexity than the sum total of all the atomic vibrations since the beginning of time" -- prove me wrong :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca From jshuey at tnc.org Fri May 5 14:52:55 2000 From: jshuey at tnc.org (John Shuey) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 13:52:55 -0500 Subject: Euristrymon favonius References: Message-ID: <39131887.8503DEF4@tnc.org> A quick note about this bug. I've only seen it in the morning, often while the dew is still on the grass. It can be locally common and then completely disappear a couple of hours later. So, don't sleep in if your serious about seeing this species. John Shuey moth at ra.msstate.edu wrote: > A query was made about records for the lycaenid, E. favonius. We have a > series of specimens collected May 22, 1980 at Orange Beach, AL (Baldwin > Co.), about 250 yards from the Ocean. This site with low dunes and > scattered oaks is now part of the Gulf State Park. More extensive and less > disturbed habitat of similar type occurs at Bon Secour N.W. Refuge, west of > Ocean Springs. Both the Park and Refuge require collecting permits. > > Richard L. Brown > Mississippi Entomological Museum > Box 9775 > Mississippi State, MS 39762 > phone: (662) 325-2085 > fax: (662) 325-8837 > e-mail: moth at ra.msstate.edu -- John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy phone: 317-923-7547 fax: 317-923-7582 email: Jshuey at tnc.org From pwbelg at clara.co.uk Fri May 5 19:19:02 2000 From: pwbelg at clara.co.uk (Paul (ELG)) Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 00:19:02 +0100 Subject: one list Message-ID: Hey guys, There already is a European Leps List, but without all the Flames. I would publish the mail address, but Mr Bones may join. Paul. ---------- > From: Ernest Williams > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: one list > Date: 05 May 2000 15:08 > > I hope the list does not split. No matter what list you're on, there are > always some people on it who you don't want to hear/read....and there are > always more messages you want to skip over than there are those you want to > read. That is the nature of listservs. > > I value having a single primary lep listserv with inputs from people in > other countries and on other continents. (Yes, I know the obvious > rejoinders that you can subscribe to multiple listservs, etc.; splitting is > the answer only when the traffic becomes too heavy or the interests of the > participants too divergent.) > > Ernest Williams > > > > > >At one time people were talking about making two leps-list, one european one > >american and at that time I thought it was a good idea and that it might > >takeMr. > >Jones off our back and I still think so,would their be other advantages > > > > From viceroy at anu.ie Sat May 6 02:27:26 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 07:27:26 +0100 Subject: one list References: Message-ID: <3913BB4E.D953382E@anu.ie> Subscribe: uk-leps-subscribe at egroups.com Unsubscribe: uk-leps-unsubscribe at egroups.com List owner: uk-leps-owner at egroups.com URL to this page: http://www.egroups.com/group/uk-leps Here's the specs for the UK list. I read it for a while, but it was mostly about moths, so I drifted away. Now that I'm back in Ireland, I'll check it out again. Anne Kilmer Mayo, ireland From frank at smtp.njau.edu.cn Sat May 6 02:33:21 2000 From: frank at smtp.njau.edu.cn (frank at smtp.njau.edu.cn) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 06:33:21 GMT Subject: who can sent me images of butterfly? Message-ID: <3913bc32.6717888@news.cn99.com> Please send me some beautiful images of butterfly in your hands. I am composing a page for butterfly! homepage :http://home.njau.edu.cn/~xiaofei E-mail: frank at smtp.njau.edu.cn From plauzolesp at bigvalley.net Sat May 6 03:22:29 2000 From: plauzolesp at bigvalley.net (Pierre A Plauzoles) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 00:22:29 -0700 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <8es7mm$45ak$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: <3913C835.556F8DD@bigvalley.net> Sunsol wrote: > I heard something on the news this morning about a checkerspot. They said > that the Army Corps of Engineers gave a permit to a developer in San Jose, > CA to put in a shopping mall. And now they will have to wait a year to start > construction because of the checkerspot. What will waiting a year do? Do > they plan to move the checkerspot? I haven't heard aboiut this one, I suspect that you are on the right track. Stupid, ignorant move in my opinion. Ask Neil Jones how the same thing went in Wales, and you will get a good idea of why I am so adamant about it. OK, Wales and California don't match very well, but that is not my point. From cherubini at mindspring.com Fri May 5 21:35:58 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 01:35:58 +0000 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <8es7mm$45ak$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> <3913C835.556F8DD@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: <391376FE.4083@mindspring.com> > Sally Daniels wrote: > I heard something on the news this morning about a checkerspot. They said > that the Army Corps of Engineers gave a permit to a developer in San Jose, > CA to put in a shopping mall. And now they will have to wait a year to start > construction because of the checkerspot. What will waiting a year do? Do > they plan to move the checkerspot? Pierre A Plauzoles wrote: > I haven't heard aboiut this one, I suspect that you are on the right track. > Stupid, ignorant move in my opinion. According to a story in the San Jose [California] Mecury News: " the developer, William Lyon Homes Inc. has argued the butterfly has not been observed on the property for at least five years and that 71 acres of the 575-acre property will be preserved for the butterfly, and about half of the entire parcel will be turned over to an environmental trust for conservation purposes." Paul Cherubini From viceroy at anu.ie Sat May 6 04:49:10 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 09:49:10 +0100 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <8es7mm$45ak$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> <3913C835.556F8DD@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: <3913DC86.8103AD21@anu.ie> http://www.butterfliesforsale.com/Species.htm Would that be the Chalcedon checkerspot, do you think? You can buy them at the site cited above; no problem. The list here seems to be rather longer and more complicated than the one Paul gave us. Truth may not be an absolute, as we express it, but sometimes we can come pretty close to it. On the other hand, at $10 a bug, I don't suppose enough will be released to matter. And there are enough grackles around to appreciate the gesture. I hoped that the article referred to would be easy to find, doing a simple search, but this is too depressing. Sorry. I have bluebells and robins. Anne Kilmer Mayo, Ireland Pierre A Plauzoles wrote: > > Sunsol wrote: > > > I heard something on the news this morning about a checkerspot. They said > > that the Army Corps of Engineers gave a permit to a developer in San Jose, > > CA to put in a shopping mall. And now they will have to wait a year to start > > construction because of the checkerspot. What will waiting a year do? Do > > they plan to move the checkerspot? > > I haven't heard aboiut this one, I suspect that you are on the right track. > Stupid, ignorant move in my opinion. Ask Neil Jones how the same thing went in > Wales, and you will get a good idea of why I am so adamant about it. OK, Wales > and California don't match very well, but that is not my point. From viceroy at anu.ie Sat May 6 04:56:14 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 09:56:14 +0100 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <8es7mm$45ak$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> <3913C835.556F8DD@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: <3913DE2E.88D6857E@anu.ie> Here it is. Looks as if planting the host plants in appropriate areas might help. It is certain that rearing and releasing would not help, unless suitable sites had been developed. And I bet it requires some weird soil and water conditions. Give the correct scientific name, I imagine we can find out what's happening. Oh well Anne Kilmer Mayo, Ireland Scientific Name: Euphydryas editha bayensis Date of listing: 1987 Federal Status: Threatened State Status: None It is ironic that the insect on which Paul Ehrlich based his idea of metapopulations, now a paradigm for conservation of endangered species, has since become threatened itself. The Bay Checkerspot Butterfly has experienced serious declines in its populations since the mid-1980s. Because this species has long enjoyed the attention of numerous biologists, its decline was quickly realized prompting its listing as threatened in 1987. The Bay Checkerspot has an interesting life cycle which may include a few different host plants. Following mating in mid-spring, the female butterflies lay their eggs on a native plantain, Plantago erecta. The eggs hatch and the larvae feed on this host until either they have developed to a point at which they may enter dormancy or the host has begun to dry up from the summer heat. If the plantain is not sufficient for development the larvae may move onto one of two species of owl's clover (Castilleja densiflorus or C. exserta) which remain palatable for a longer period. Generally, one season is not sufficient for completion of development and the larvae must enter dormancy until the following winter when the rains allow plant growth to begin again. The larvae then emerge to feed for a little longer, pupating in late winter. The adults emerge shortly thereafter. Populations of the Bay Checkerspot historically inhabited numerous areas around the San Francisco Bay including the San Francisco peninsula, the mountains near San Jose, the Oakland hills, and several spots in Alameda County. Most of these have apparently disappeared due to the explosive development of the Bay area in the past century. Populations are now known only from San Mateo and Santa Clara counties. Changing disturbance regimes (i.e. fire, grazing) as well as introduced grassland plants have caused declines in host plant populations. In Santa Clara County much of the butterfly's habitat is on property owned by a landfill corporation. An agreement worked out among the owner, the city of San Jose, and conservation advocates has resulted in the protection of much of this habitat in exchange for permitted, conscientious development of a small portion of it. In addition, the landowner has provided funding for the establishment of a butterfly preserve and for research towards successful management of the Bay Checkerspot. For further reading: Murphy, D.D., 1988. Ecology, politics and the Bay Checkerspot butterfly. Wings 13(1): 4-8, 15. Murphy, D.D., 1988. The Kirby Canyon Conservation Agreement: A model for the resolution of land-use conflicts involving threatened invertebrates. Environmental Conservation 15(1): 45-48. Murphy, D.D. and S.B. Weiss, 1988. Ecological studies and the conservation of the Bay Checkerspot butterfly, Euphydryas editha bayensis. Biological Conservation 46(3): 183-200. Pierre A Plauzoles wrote: > > Sunsol wrote: > > > I heard something on the news this morning about a checkerspot. They said > > that the Army Corps of Engineers gave a permit to a developer in San Jose, > > CA to put in a shopping mall. And now they will have to wait a year to start > > construction because of the checkerspot. What will waiting a year do? Do > > they plan to move the checkerspot? > > I haven't heard aboiut this one, I suspect that you are on the right track. > Stupid, ignorant move in my opinion. Ask Neil Jones how the same thing went in > Wales, and you will get a good idea of why I am so adamant about it. OK, Wales > and California don't match very well, but that is not my point. From cherubini at mindspring.com Fri May 5 23:48:09 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 03:48:09 +0000 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <8es7mm$45ak$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com> <3913C835.556F8DD@bigvalley.net> <3913DC86.8103AD21@anu.ie> Message-ID: <391395F9.6ECF@mindspring.com> anne kilmer wrote: > > http://www.butterfliesforsale.com/Species.htm > > Would that be the Chalcedon checkerspot, do you think? You can buy them > at the site cited above; no problem. Laurel Godley's company "Butterflies Bedazzling" http://www.butterfliesforsale.com/index.htm seems to offer only 4 common species for sale at release events, not including the checkerspot. Below is a quote from her website: http://www.butterfliesforsale.com/releases.htm "Invite a royal gathering to join you for your special occasion. Our lovingly hand-raised Monarchs, Queens, Red Admirals, and Painted Ladies are eagerly awaiting your invitation." On the other hand, another part of her website http://www.butterfliesforsale.com/Species.htm reads: "We work with area scientists to learn the most about each of our unique guests and how best to meet their complex needs. This enables us to bring you a diverse selection of native California species. Rearing so many species is quite challenging, yet we delight in the opportunity to observe nature's miracle first-hand. We invite you to witness the wonder of butterflies for yourself." "Monarch Viceroy Pipevine Swallowtail Gulf Fritillary Painted Lady Red Admiral Buckeye Anise Swallowtail Checkerspot European White Orange-Tip" I do know the California Dept. of Food and Agriculture has a long list of species it allows to be raised and released within the confines of the State. Paul Cherubini From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Sat May 6 00:37:43 2000 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 21:37:43 -0700 Subject: Painted Ladies. Message-ID: <000401bfb766$6cbdf9c0$76dcc2cf@cguppy> As far as I have been able to determine, Painted Ladies that fly north through southern CA in early March arrive in southern British Columbia in mid-April. In a "peak" year, the migrants can be seen arriving on southern Vancouver Island in reasonable numbers (dozens seen flying in from the south each hour, over a period of a couple days). So a period of about 4 weeks is required to fly from southern CA to southern BC, and the Painted Ladies are only moderately worn when they arrive. The adults arriving in BC must be the same as those passing through southern CA, because there has not been time for a new generation. I would expect an occasional individual to make it to southern Alaska in early to mid-May. An additional wave of migrant Painted Ladies arrives in southern BC about a month after the first (in better condition than the first wave), and a third wave may arrive about a month after that (by which time "local" butterflies are flying, and it is difficult to separate migrants from them). So a June migrant in Alaska is likely to result from the second northward migration of a season, likely from offspring of the first migration that were produced in Oregon and southern WA. The above is derived from observations I made over a period of two years while living in Victoria, on the southern tip of Vancouver Island. -----Original Message----- From: Kenelm Philip To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Date: May 5, 2000 11:17 AM Subject: Re: I need help....... > > With regard to the 1973 Kenai Peninsula records for _V. cardui_ >(Painted Lady), Paul Cherubini asked: > >> And I wonder if the moderately worn Painted Ladies migrating north in >> California in April are capable of living to June? > >There were 4 specimens in that series, and the collection dates ranged >from 5 July through 1 August. Presumably these were from a later flight? > > Ken Philip >fnkwp at uaf.edu > > > From royss at yeah.net Sat May 6 11:22:39 2000 From: royss at yeah.net (royss at yeah.net) Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 23:22:39 +0800 (CST) Subject: Ï£ÍûÁ˽âÓÐêPÏã¸Ûºûµû¡¢ïw¶ê»ò÷[³áÄ¿WþµÄÙYÁÏ£¡ Message-ID: <391438BF.24047@ms2> ?????[?????W??????????????????????????????????????3??????????????????600???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From proper at dial.pipex.com Sat May 6 11:51:05 2000 From: proper at dial.pipex.com (Patrick Roper) Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 16:51:05 +0100 Subject: Cynthia cardui in UK Message-ID: A painted lady butterfly (Cynthia cardui) has today (6 May 2000)turned up in our garden in East Sussex, UK, about eight kilometres (5 miles) from the English Channel. This is the earliest I have seen this migrant species here, so maybe we are going to have another painted lady year in Europe like 1996. Patrick Roper From rkrogen at online.no Sat May 6 12:54:34 2000 From: rkrogen at online.no (Runar Krogen) Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 18:54:34 +0200 Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: <200005061656.SAA03996@mail49.fg.online.no> In 1998 northern Norway experienced a summer warmer than normal. Breeding of Vanessa cardui almost certainly took place at about 66.5 degrees N. Latitude in Mo i Rana, for those who have a map. The first migrant was seen there on June 23. Caterpillars were found in August. During three days, 14. - 16. September three fresh adults were seen flying around, indicating a successful breeding just a few yards south of the Arctic Circle. In the same season of 1998 the species also bred in central Norway around Trondheim at 63.5 degrees N.Latitude. Here I found more than 200 caterpillars late season, but few developed into butterflies in nature. The conditions were better in northen Norway (normally it is the opposite) during the season of 1998. There will be published a paper on migrant butterflies in central and north Norway in 1998 in the journal ATALANTA later on. Around Trondheim V. cardui has bred sucessfully in certain years. The best years were probably the warm seasons of 1980 and 1988 when V. cardui was common in fresh specimens early autumn. V. atalanta breeds regularly around Trondheim, f.ex. last season, 1999. Runar Krogen Finnmyrveien 38, N-7350 Buvika, Norway rkrogen at online.no ---------- > From: Paul Cherubini > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: Re: I need help....... > Date: 5. mai 2000 12:25 > > Ken Philip wrote: > > > One can never be sure about a given specimen--but there is enough > > evidence that SW US butterflies can disperse this far north. Both _V. > > cardui_ and _V. atalanta_ have been found in the Yukon (Carmacks and > > Haines Junction, respectively), and _V. atalanta_ has been found in SE > > and Southcentral Alaska. There is also one record of _H. isola_ from > > Wiseman, Alaska. All these species are noted for northward dispersal > > flights... > > I agree it looks like both the Red Admiral and Painted Lady stray > as far north as interior Alaska on occassion. The Monarch has strayed > as far north as the Yukon and Hudson's Bay too - far out of range of > it's milkweed host plant. > > Now I am wondering what are the northernmost breeding records for > the Red Admiral and Painted Lady? It would seem a more serious > issue if school releases caused false positive breeding records. I have not > heard of any to date. > > > The Kenai Peninsula _cardui_ were caught in 1973, which may > > have been before the schools up here began releasing them--but I'm > > not sure about that. > > Insect Lore - the company that supplies schools with Painted Ladies > began business in 1969. But I don't know how many years it took > the owner-entomologist Carlos White to get his business established > in remote areas like Alaska. The spring of 1973 was an outbreak year > for Painted Ladies here in California in April. At this time the butterflies are > in moderate to heavily faded condition. These older butterflies could have > reachedthe Anchorage area of Alaska by June if they could cover an average of > about 30 miles per day (as monarchs do) through the intense cold, rain > and overcast of the west coast of Canada and Alaska, but I wonder how > realistic this is? And I wonder if the moderately worn Painted Ladies > migrating north in California in April are capable of living to June? > > Paul Cherubini > From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Sat May 6 15:09:52 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 11:09:52 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Population/Resources/Release Message-ID: I agree with Norbert Kondla that the 'balance of nature' is an idea that's been oversold--things are less static than that image suggests. I also agree that many other things besides resources affect population size--I've seen it happen. On the other hand, you won't see sustained population levels in excess of what the resources can support... The well-known fact that habitat destruction is a major factor in extinction is a case in point. > I am not aware of any literature that presents data for the release > of 'extra' butterflies displacing others See the paper I referred to: Dethier & MacArthur, 1964. 'A Field's Capacity to support a Butterfly Population', Nature 201:728-729. When extra larvae were added to the colony (a 25-fold increase), the result was that adults the following summer left the colony--as was shown by the presence of eggs on asterd along the road leading out of the field involved. Unless only the added larvae produced out-migrating adults, one may conclude that the extra butterflies did in fact displace others. Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From patfoley at csus.edu Sat May 6 19:15:24 2000 From: patfoley at csus.edu (Patrick Foley) Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 16:15:24 -0700 Subject: I need help....... References: <38EB7F4A.A233E893@tnc.org> <8eaehm$kb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <390985D4.23E96982@epix.net> <3.0.6.32.20000503203335.0088fe70@mail.airmail.net> <3910EFB0.22A174EE@csus.edu> <3910E537.FB8@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3914A78C.67317D84@csus.edu> Paul, It is reasonable to ask for antireleasers for more science. It is not reasonable to expect them to solve your problems however. The kind of questions you raise constitute a substantial research program. Normally this would involve some preliminary work, grant writing and so forth. This month I don't have the time ( I teach full time, do research on theory of extinction, contribute to epidemiological work organized by my wife, Dr. Janet Foley, am developing a research program on pollination conservation issues, and help raise 3 kids). I am sure everyone else has plenty to do also, so perhaps the people who are causing the potential problem could put out the energy, money and time to solve the problem. As a start organize a small conference? Patrick Foley patfoley at csus.edu Paul Cherubini wrote: > Geneticist Patrick Foley wrote: > > > 2) Bruce seems to assume that the burden of proof > > should lie with on the anti-releasers. This is point of view would not be held by > > anyone working in biological control. > > 90% of all the butterflies raised and released in the USA (48 contiguous states) by > commercial and educational breeders involve just two species: The Monarch and Painted > Lady. The Monarch and Painted Lady naturally range and breed in all 48 states. > In the case of the Monarch, about 100,000 are annually raised and released by > breeders into a nationwide population of about 200,000,000. > Now lets assume the burden of proof of no harm should lie with the pro-releasers. > Pat, can you list specific scientific studies that the pro-releasers should > sponsor or conduct that would satisfy this "burden of proof" in regard to these > two species? > > > 3) There are some dangers (discussed by me > > and others in posts last year) that Bruce is not mentioning, such as disease, > > transposons, runaway sexual selection etc. that could cause major problems from an > > apparently minor release. > > Can you be more specific about what sorts of "major problems" might > develope from annual releases of 100,000 Monarchs and 200,000 Painted Ladies > within the 48 states? > > > Releases would bollox up many kinds of future > > scientific studies on phylogeography (the geography of micro- and meso- > > evolution) > > Can you be specific about what you mean by "bollox"? Can you present us > with a math based model that describes the assumptions that would > have to be made for this type of harm to realized? For example, how many > Monarchs or Painted Ladies would have to be released annually over what > amount of land area? > > Paul Cherubini, Placerville, California From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Sun May 7 00:04:23 2000 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 21:04:23 -0700 Subject: Checkerspot on the news Message-ID: >http://www.butterfliesforsale.com/Species.htm > >Would that be the Chalcedon checkerspot, do you think? No, it would Euphydryas e. editha, known as the Bay Checkerspot (the name "bayensis" is not valid). It *IS* Federally listed, and if it occurs on the property in question (it's certainly the right area), then theoretically there should be significant difficulties in getting the land developed. Five years with no sightings is certainly possible on an inhabited piece of property, though it all depends on the credibility of the consultants doing the surveys. One certainly does hear of consulting firms who conveniently fail to report positive sightings, or contract out to marginally competent field people who don't do a thorough job of surveying. Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 From viceroy at anu.ie Sun May 7 01:21:44 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 06:21:44 +0100 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: Message-ID: <3914FD68.CE0CB2C7@anu.ie> I have pursued this on the glorious Web ... They're finding that the nitrogen in vehicle emissions causes non-native grasses to crowd out the native host plants that the Bay checkerspot uses. They now use cows (!) to graze down the grasses and find that the butterfly returns. Anybody think they're grazing the embattled area? Cows are not an elegant solution anyway. I suppose the little man with the bucket and spade is gathering the manure, but hooves dig up fragile soil, destroy other plants, and cows are not that particular as to what they eat. Sheep and goats would be worse. Any votes for Boy Scouts with Roundup onna stick? Second graders with nail scissors? The requirements for the bugs are frighteningly precise ... maybe we'll win, and I'm glad we're trying, but oh Lordy, Lordy. http://www.hort.agri.umn.edu/h5015/97papers/mason.html Here's a nice site. Anne Kilmer Mayo, Ireland Doug Yanega wrote: > > >http://www.butterfliesforsale.com/Species.htm > > > >Would that be the Chalcedon checkerspot, do you think? > > No, it would Euphydryas e. editha, known as the Bay Checkerspot (the name > "bayensis" is not valid). It *IS* Federally listed, and if it occurs on the > property in question (it's certainly the right area), then theoretically > there should be significant difficulties in getting the land developed. > Five years with no sightings is certainly possible on an inhabited piece of > property, though it all depends on the credibility of the consultants doing > the surveys. One certainly does hear of consulting firms who conveniently > fail to report positive sightings, or contract out to marginally competent > field people who don't do a thorough job of surveying. > > Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum > Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 > phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) > http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html > "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness > is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 From f.boca at wanadoo.fr Sat May 6 18:56:38 2000 From: f.boca at wanadoo.fr (François BOCA) Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 00:56:38 +0200 Subject: Cynthia cardui in UK References: Message-ID: <8f36uh$944$1@wanadoo.fr> Also two (5 and 6 May) in Pas de Calais (North of France) I saw also Spalia sertorius. I think it is not very common in the North of France. (But "butterflyman" (How do you say in English?) are not very common too!!!) Yours Fran?ois BOCA Patrick Roper a ?crit dans le message ... >A painted lady butterfly (Cynthia cardui) has today (6 May 2000)turned >up in our garden in East Sussex, UK, about eight kilometres (5 miles) >from the English Channel. This is the earliest I have seen this >migrant species here, so maybe we are going to have another painted >lady year in Europe like 1996. > >Patrick Roper > From plauzolesp at bigvalley.net Sun May 7 03:42:16 2000 From: plauzolesp at bigvalley.net (Pierre A Plauzoles) Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:42:16 -0700 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <8es7mm$45ak$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>, <3913C835.556F8DD@bigvalley.net>, <391376FE.4083@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <39151E58.707249C0@bigvalley.net> Paul Cherubini wrote: > > Sally Daniels wrote: > > > I heard something on the news this morning about a checkerspot. They said > > that the Army Corps of Engineers gave a permit to a developer in San Jose, > > CA to put in a shopping mall. And now they will have to wait a year to start > > construction because of the checkerspot. What will waiting a year do? Do > > they plan to move the checkerspot? > > Pierre A Plauzoles wrote: > > > I haven't heard aboiut this one, I suspect that you are on the right track. > > Stupid, ignorant move in my opinion. > > According to a story in the San Jose [California] Mecury News: > > " the developer, William Lyon Homes Inc. has argued the butterfly has > not been observed on the property for at least five years and that > 71 acres of the 575-acre property will be preserved for the butterfly, and about > half of the entire parcel will be turned over to an environmental trust for > conservation purposes." Developers down here have a horrific reputation for skewing their EIRs and EISs to their own wishes. If developers in the Bay area are anything like those who ply their trade here in southern California, it is not good news for the Bay area's checkerspots. Applied to WLH, this would mean that they purposely told the people who did the research on the area's entomologu not to notice the checkerspot. Whether this actually happened or not is, of course, not within the limits of my knowledge, and I don't think it would be fair to make such a generalization, but the fact remains that this may have happened. As for the idea of setting 71 acres aside, very well and good. I do have4 reservations about that too, though: 1/ is enough to keep the butterfly's population viable? 2/ Does the area contain the right plants (and so on)? I don't mean to criticize WLH for handling the project like this, but I see so much going on here in the Los Angeles area (Playa Vista, Bel-Air Crest, developments on Palos Verdes Paninsula, along Mulholland Highway in the western Santa Monica Mountains, in Santa Clarita and Antelope Valley, etc) that I do tend to be a tad skeptical where developers, their methods and intentions where wildlife are concerned (whether the wildlife be elk, blue butterflies, bats, some flower-loving fly or a rare lizard makes no difference to me. They all deserve *some* attention from us before we go trashing their homes: we should at least make a good faith effort to find out what is actually "out there" before we trash a place. Pierre A Plauzoles sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com From dcplautz at yahoo.com Sun May 7 08:51:50 2000 From: dcplautz at yahoo.com (Deborah Plautz) Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 08:51:50 -0400 Subject: http://schooljunction.com/index.htm Message-ID: <957704172.612181@helium.cstone.net> I would like to introduce a site that I have found to this group, it consists of information about physics,chemistry, mathematics, & biology. The site is free and it offers students a wonderful opportunity to advance their knowledge. In addition to, free coaching and individual helpline. Respectfully, Deborah Plautz From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Sun May 7 09:28:01 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 09:28:01 -0400 Subject: Are environmental impact statements imperfect In-Reply-To: dyanega@pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) "Re: Checkerspot on the news" (May 6, 9:04pm) References: Message-ID: <1000507092804.ZM3606@Gochfeld> Doug raises the question about the reliability (and or veracity) of consultants performing environmental impact statements (or similar surveys) of land slated for development. We are in the process of validating (or invalidating) an EIS submitted for a 50A (20 Ha) plot of second growth woodland. The EIS was a travesty. It's not surprising that it might have overlooked a threatened species of Skipper (since the listing hadn't occurred yet and the skipper is only active for about two weeks in late summer), but they listed fewer than 20 trees, 20 breeding birds, no herps etc. It would be important, I think, if people become aware of EIS that are similarly flawed, to do a side by side comparison and publish it. Or perhaps we ought to collate these and do something big with it. I remember someone once saying that EIS were a deadly enemy because once completed they took on a life of their own and became official, regardless of the credentials of people who challenged them. Mike Gochfeld From bnotebaert at hotmail.com Sun May 7 09:23:51 2000 From: bnotebaert at hotmail.com (Bastiaan Notebaert) Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 15:23:51 +0200 Subject: Vanessa atalanta Message-ID: <20000507133615.44830.qmail@hotmail.com> I had to wait until today (7/05/2000) to see my first Vanessa atalanta this year. I had him in my garden in Drongen (Gent) Belgium. This is very late: last years I saw it in Ghent for the first on: 1995: 09/05; 1996: 06/04; 1997: 02/04; 1998: 09/02; 1999: 25/04. Yesterday my father saw also a Vanessa cardui in Ronse/Renaix, belgium. Only in 1997 (17/04) we saw it earlier, but we don't have it each year in the spring. Bastiaan Notebaert Drongen, Belgium bnotebaert at hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/notebas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000507/406f8573/attachment.html From Gates at ucrac1.ucr.edu Sun May 7 10:48:17 2000 From: Gates at ucrac1.ucr.edu (Michael Gates) Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 07:48:17 -0700 Subject: Checkerspot on the news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000507074817.007da580@mail.ucr.edu> A few comments on a few responses... Doug Yanega wrote: >>Would that be the Chalcedon checkerspot, do you think? > >No, it would Euphydryas e. editha, known as the Bay Checkerspot >Five years with no sightings is certainly possible on an inhabited piece of >property, though it all depends on the credibility of the consultants doing >the surveys. One certainly does hear of consulting firms who conveniently >fail to report positive sightings, or contract out to marginally competent >field people who don't do a thorough job of surveying. I agree 100% Doug. Some consultants can't help the fact that they don't have years of experience with butterflies, but they get permitted for survey work and are legitimately trying to increase their knowledge about their natural history, etc. Bravo! However, there are slimebags in developers' pockets who will say anything for a buck. It reminds me of a site near Temecula in S. Cal. two years ago that was surveyed by a "biostitute" who reported that no hostplant was to be seen for the listed Quino Checkerspot Butterfly. This site had been partially graded. A legitimate biologist went out a few days later (on his own dime) and found exceptional hostplant populations growing in and around the ruts left by the grader! I can confirm this because I saw it a couple days after him. Pierre Plauzoles wrote: >the Los Angeles area (Playa Vista, Bel-Air Crest, developments on Palos Verdes >Paninsula, along Mulholland Highway in the western Santa Monica Mountains, in >Santa Clarita and Antelope Valley, etc) that I do tend to be a tad skeptical >where developers, their methods and intentions where wildlife are concerned Only a tad skeptical? I'm downright suspicious! Although the majority of developers follow the surveying laws and go through the whole rigamorole, it's the few bad apples that casts a foul shadow upon development as a whole. I worked on an absolutely gorgeous site E. of San Diego that had been completely denuded of vegetation. On one side was beautiful coastal succulent scrub (with several rare plants I might add) and on the other was a bare wasteland. Of course, they just hired a high-powered attorney to fend off USFWS's feeble protests. In my opinion, the only time that developers will care a whit about the environment is when it affects them directly. A general example of this is a recent sewage leak in the vicinity of Huntington Beach that closed the beach, smelled bad, etc. All the rich folks living along the beach brought considerable resources and political pressure to bear on the mayor, etc. and the problem was removed from their perception and everything goes back to 'normal'. >(whether the wildlife be elk, blue butterflies, bats, some flower-loving fly or >a rare lizard makes no difference to me. They all deserve *some* attention from >us before we go trashing their homes: we should at least make a good faith >effort to find out what is actually "out there" before we trash a place. Yes. Endangered species are a symptom of what is going wrong, environmentally speaking. Ok, so maybe an endangered fly isn't as sexy as some of our rare megafauna that captures the public's heart, but both point to the same problem: habitat degradation. In the US, we focus too much on the 'species' that is dying out rather than the 'habitat' in which it lives. Who knows, would more land area be preserved if we tried protecting habitats rather than species? Mike Gochfeld wrote: >We are in the process of validating (or invalidating) an EIS submitted >for a 50A (20 Ha) plot of second growth woodland. The EIS was a >travesty. It's not surprising that it might have overlooked a threatened >species of Skipper (since the listing hadn't occurred yet and the >skipper is only active for about two weeks in late summer), but they >listed fewer than 20 trees, 20 breeding birds, no herps etc. >I remember someone once saying that EIS were a deadly enemy because once >completed they took on a life of their own and became official, >regardless of the credentials of people who challenged them. True. Part of the problem stems from the bureaucrats who are responsible for decisions based upon EILs having no experience and/or training in biological issues like endangered species, conservation biology, habitat restoration and no desire to improve their knowledge with a little reading. Plus, "unfavorable" (read 'preserve habitat') decisions can 'rock the boat' and cause friction, something a GS15 might not want to do as it could threaten all he has worked so hard for (benefits, fat-cat salary, etc.). On a final note in my diatribe, I'd be interested in knowing what everyone thinks about the latest USFWS decision to allow permitted biologists to capture, and handle and remove the endangered Quino Checkerspot to facilitate identification in areas outside the indicated survey areas (ostensibly to allow for increased info. on distribution, undiscovered populations etc.)? You can check out their PDF protocol at: http://www.r1.fws.gov/text/QCB2000Prtcl.PDF (see pages 6-7). Cheers Mike Gates From plauzolesp at bigvalley.net Sun May 7 14:38:23 2000 From: plauzolesp at bigvalley.net (Pierre A Plauzoles) Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 11:38:23 -0700 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: , <3.0.1.32.20000507074817.007da580@mail.ucr.edu> Message-ID: <3915B81F.12EC4BFA@bigvalley.net> Michael Gates wrote: > A few comments on a few responses... > > Doug Yanega wrote: > >>Would that be the Chalcedon checkerspot, do you think? > > > >No, it would Euphydryas e. editha, known as the Bay Checkerspot > > >Five years with no sightings is certainly possible on an inhabited piece of > >property, though it all depends on the credibility of the consultants doing > >the surveys. One certainly does hear of consulting firms who conveniently > >fail to report positive sightings, or contract out to marginally competent > >field people who don't do a thorough job of surveying. > > I agree 100% Doug. Some consultants can't help the fact that they don't have > years of experience with butterflies, but they get permitted for survey work > and are legitimately trying to increase their knowledge about their natural > history, etc. Bravo! However, there are slimebags in developers' pockets who > will say anything for a buck. It reminds me of a site near Temecula in S. > Cal. > two years ago that was surveyed by a "biostitute" who reported that no > hostplant > was to be seen for the listed Quino Checkerspot Butterfly. This site had been > partially graded. A legitimate biologist went out a few days later (on his own > dime) and found exceptional hostplant populations growing in and around the > ruts > left by the grader! I can confirm this because I saw it a couple days after > him. > > Pierre Plauzoles wrote: > >the Los Angeles area (Playa Vista, Bel-Air Crest, developments on Palos > Verdes > >Paninsula, along Mulholland Highway in the western Santa Monica Mountains, > in >Santa Clarita and Antelope Valley, etc) that I do tend to be a tad > skeptical >where developers, their methods and intentions where wildlife > are concerned > > Only a tad skeptical? I'm downright suspicious! Although the majority of > developers follow the surveying laws and go through the whole rigamorole, > it's the few bad apples that casts a foul shadow upon development as a > whole. I worked on an absolutely gorgeous site E. of San Diego that had > been completely denuded of vegetation. On one side was beautiful coastal > succulent scrub (with several rare plants I might add) and on the other was > a bare wasteland. Of course, they just hired a high-powered attorney to > fend off USFWS's feeble protests. In my opinion, the only time that > developers will care a whit about the environment is when it affects them > directly. A general example of this is a recent sewage leak in the vicinity > of Huntington Beach that closed the beach, smelled bad, etc. All the rich > folks living along the beach brought considerable resources and political > pressure to bear on the mayor, etc. and the problem was removed from their > perception and everything goes back to 'normal'. Good heavens, Mike!! Can't you see sarcasm when it knocks your head off your shoulders? Suspicious? of course; so am I -- and rightfully *highly* suspicious at that. There are just times when I choose to be subtle enough to get people's fingers doing some walking on their keyboards. :-) > >(whether the wildlife be elk, blue butterflies, bats, some flower-loving > fly or >a rare lizard makes no difference to me. They all deserve *some* > attention from >us before we go trashing their homes: we should at least > make a good faith >effort to find out what is actually "out there" before > we trash a place. > > Yes. Endangered species are a symptom of what is going wrong, > environmentally speaking. Ok, so maybe an endangered fly isn't as sexy as > some of our rare megafauna that captures the public's heart, but both point > to the same problem: habitat degradation. In the US, we focus too much on > the 'species' that is dying out rather than the 'habitat' in which it > lives. Who knows, would more land area be preserved if we tried protecting > habitats rather than species? Yes. I think more species would be preserved, and with less effort per species, especially if the areas involved were large enough to be truly viable. One problem is the encroachment by trucks, cars and buses (and so on) and the fossil-fuel fumes they generate. The sooner we see the benefits of rail electrification and the public transportation improvements that can engender the better. People will depend on their private auto less and generate less air pollution in the process. > Mike Gochfeld wrote: > >We are in the process of validating (or invalidating) an EIS submitted > >for a 50A (20 Ha) plot of second growth woodland. The EIS was a > >travesty. It's not surprising that it might have overlooked a threatened > >species of Skipper (since the listing hadn't occurred yet and the > >skipper is only active for about two weeks in late summer), but they > >listed fewer than 20 trees, 20 breeding birds, no herps etc. > > > >I remember someone once saying that EIS were a deadly enemy because once > >completed they took on a life of their own and became official, > >regardless of the credentials of people who challenged them. > > True. Part of the problem stems from the bureaucrats who are responsible for > decisions based upon EILs having no experience and/or training in biological > issues like endangered species, conservation biology, habitat restoration and > no desire to improve their knowledge with a little reading. The same goes for the developers. Were they to get a knowledge upgrade, they would then realize that butterfly gardens can be an asset in selling a home. > Plus, "unfavorable" (read 'preserve habitat') decisions can 'rock the boat' > and cause friction, something a GS15 might not want to do as it could > threaten all he has worked so hard for (benefits, fat-cat salary, etc.). So what else is new? > On a final note in my diatribe, I'd be interested in knowing what everyone > thinks about the latest USFWS decision to allow permitted biologists to > capture, and handle and remove the endangered Quino Checkerspot to > facilitate identification in areas outside the indicated survey areas > (ostensibly to allow for increased info. on distribution, undiscovered > populations etc.)? You can check out their PDF protocol at: > http://www.r1.fws.gov/text/QCB2000Prtcl.PDF (see pages 6-7). I think the idea is just a cover for the developer to be able to say it isn't there, when, in fact, if it is, they just haven't bothered to do their homewirk right. From rcjohnsen at aol.com Sun May 7 17:23:41 2000 From: rcjohnsen at aol.com (Rcjohnsen) Date: 07 May 2000 21:23:41 GMT Subject: who can sent me images of butterfly? References: <3913bc32.6717888@news.cn99.com> Message-ID: <20000507172341.10466.00001803@ng-bh1.aol.com> << Subject: who can sent me images of butterfly? From: frank at smtp.njau.edu.cn Date: Sat, May 6, 2000 6:33 AM Message-id: <3913bc32.6717888 at news.cn99.com> Please send me some beautiful images of butterfly in your hands. I am composing a page for butterfly! homepage :http://home.njau.edu.cn/~xiaofei E-mail: frank at smtp.njau.edu.cn >> There are a few good sites you can refer people to if creating a web site; at http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/bflyusa/bflyusa.htm of Flutterbies at http://www.flutterbies.de/ of moths at http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/mothsusa.htm plus what ever you gets as photos from contributer should make your site very good. Roger From Mothman617 at mediaone.net Sun May 7 19:17:51 2000 From: Mothman617 at mediaone.net (Mothman617) Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:17:51 GMT Subject: V. atalanta, V. virginiensis in Mass. Message-ID: Over the last week or so I have seen very large numbers of Vanessa atalanta and V. virginiensis here in eastern Massachusetts. V. atalanta numbers have been most impressive. I counted at least 7 at one time in one location today. I usually do not see V. atalanta in any impressive numbers until well into summer. It did hit 92 degrees (F) today and saw my first Tiger Swallowtails (P. glaucus) and the first female Monarch (D. plexippus) lazily flying about and probably searching for Milkweed. I also saw a good variety of Pieridae, Lycaenidae and Hesperidae. Well we should have a good hot, steamy and oppressive night (my kind of weather), and I will have my UV and mercury vapor lamps running and hope to get some early Sphingidae and perhaps a Saturnid or two. M. Arey From Citheronia at aol.com Sun May 7 22:47:07 2000 From: Citheronia at aol.com (Citheronia at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 22:47:07 EDT Subject: A V. atalanta question Message-ID: <43.472f5d6.264784ab@aol.com> Hi everyone, I've heard from a few different people that Vanessa atalanta does not overwinter as a pupa here in central New York (Oswego County). Today I went out collecting, and I saw probably 50 or so V. atalanta on the bank of the creek I was collecting at. (Ninemile Creek). Practically all that I saw, except for possibly 3 or 4, were in absolute perfect condition, with bright, fresh colors and all. I would have to say that it is extremely unlikely that these were overwintered adults, being in as good of a condition they were in. I was just wondering what other people have heard about overwintering V. atalanta up here... Thanks, Randy Lyttle From MWalker at gensym.com Mon May 8 00:10:50 2000 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 00:10:50 -0400 Subject: There are releases and releases Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63B7@hqmail.gensym.com> In 1968 I was in the 4th grade, and we raised Japanese silkworm moths. I was given the task of babysitting them after they pupated. It didn't occur to me at the time that a lidless, unsupervised cardboard box full of cocoons was a bad idea. I came home after school to find silk moths mating all over my room. I found eggs all over my clothes and curtains. A few escaped. The world hasn't been the same since. Mark Walker. at Whiskey Pete's, Jean, NV > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Gochfeld [mailto:gochfeld at EOHSI.RUTGERS.EDU] > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 4:31 AM > To: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu; leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: There are releases and releases > > > Ken raised an interesting historical question. Were there butterfly > releases in 1973. I'm sure this list represents people of > very diverse > ages and very diverse localities and elementary schooling. We can > identify our own experiences both regarding whether we raised and/or > released butterflies in school and when we heard of butterfly > releases > at social events. > > I'll start. > > I graduated high school in 1957. We did have a junior > Audubon Society > in 4th grade (birds only) and a school botanical garden, but > no raising > of butterflies. We did dissect frogs in 10th grade biology. > I never heard of a butterfly release here in NJ until about > 1990. > > Mike Gochfeld > From MWalker at gensym.com Mon May 8 00:39:36 2000 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 00:39:36 -0400 Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63B8@hqmail.gensym.com> Ken wrote: > But introducing individuals of a species which is > slowly declining > in the attempt to reverse the decline does not seem to help. It's more > to the point to improve the habitat, rather than just > throwing butterflies > at it. O.K., but it would seem that a combination of both IS a good idea (although this seems obvious, I'm amazed out how infrequent it appears to happen). First the habitat is reduced, disturbed, or made discontinuous. Then the populations decline. It seems that for many Lycaenids, simply restoring habitat may not be sufficient - there is often a limitation to how far certain species can emigrate. In these cases, it would seem to me that having someone rearing and reintroducing would be a good idea. Not a guaranteed success, of course, but a justifiable effort nonetheless. I know that's what's happening on Palos Verdes peninsula (with reportedly some disappointing success as of late) with the ssp. of G. lygdamus that was previously thought to be extinct. I'd sure like to think that this type of effort was being considered more frequently. Mark Walker. From MWalker at gensym.com Mon May 8 01:54:09 2000 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 01:54:09 -0400 Subject: Help with larvae - south NV Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63BC@hqmail.gensym.com> I'm in the higher desert near Goodsprings, NV. I'm looking at fairly mature larvae that are devouring a bushy, squatty desert plant with very large purple blossoms (about the size of a racquetball). I'm not familiar with the plant. The larva appear to be sphingid-like - with a small hook on the tail end. At least a few of them are large - a couple of inches. There are several color forms - one very dark, and others mostly green. There are longitudinal dark bands - two distinct on one of the green larva. I suppose these could be White-lined Sphinx larvae. Anything other suggestions? Thanks, Mark Walker actually, it's the Gold Strike in Jean, NV Whiskey Pete's is in Primm. From donald.davis at utoronto.ca Mon May 8 03:44:42 2000 From: donald.davis at utoronto.ca (Donald Davis) Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 07:44:42 GMT Subject: Windsor(Ontario) Butterflies Message-ID: <3916706A.F9C6306C@utoronto.ca> With very warm temperatures and southerly winds, there was a huge bird migration into Ontario this past weekend. However, still no report of the first sighting of a migrating monarch butterfly. Apparently there are many sighting in the northern states bordering Ontario. Please send your reports to this writer or to Journey North (www.learner.org/jnorth) Don Davis Toronto, ON donald_davis at stu.wdw.utoronto.ca ----------------------------------------------- Here are some Point Pelee National Park sightings courtesy of ONTBIRDS and reported by Alan Wormington: BUTTERFLIES -- Tom Hanrahan observed a Common Sooty-Wing this morning in the septic field E of the Visitor Centre, a record-early observation for Point Pelee. Species present that are numerous right now include Red Admiral, Eastern Comma, American Painted-Lady, Spring Azure, Cabbage White and a few Tiger Swallowtails. There have also been a few Olive (Juniper) Hairstreaks reported during the last couple of day. Alan Wormington Staff, Friends of Point Pelee ------------------------- P.S. In the north country - and you don't have to go that far north - there has been a very successful hatching of black flies. So much so that children have to play indoors in many regions. From Stelenes at aol.com Mon May 8 04:13:34 2000 From: Stelenes at aol.com (Stelenes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 04:13:34 EDT Subject: There are releases and releases Message-ID: It was a sweltering summer but pre-dawn in the year 1963. The Monarchs were emerging from their chrysalises on fresh milkweed in our cramped living area, though my mother was in the hospital. I selfishly kept her busy as I too decided to emerge into the wondrous world earlier than planned. Dad was busy writing about and illustrating the Monarch's life cycle and raced to the hospital too tardy, but as a good parent he at least did manage to care for the new adults from the gold speckled cream green miracles. The photos were promptly published in the unabridged version of the American Heritage Dictionary under the word: metamorphosis (n), with credit to Walter Dawn. Four years later and at it again, father was just as hounded by my mother as I was as fascinated with the miracle of the Monarchs as can be. I looked forward to the moment of release because that task was generally assigned to me and boy did I feel lucky and important. But this time it was a piece he was working on (supposedly our consolation prize for his absence four years before) for "Ranger Rick," the ubiquitous kids' nature magazine of the time. Dad photographed me watching the Monarchs emerging intact on their milkweed hosts. During an opportunistic moment in the photo session he deviated, forcing me to look at some spiders on the same milkweed which were emerging from their own sac. I sobbed because I thought the butterflies were much cooler and the hundreds of spiders were intriguing but everywhere. He sent the photos in and Ranger Rick's who had their own idea. They gave the spider shot a half page -- rejected the Monarchs - and then the spider shot was seen by Time-Life and bought to promote one of Rachel Carson's books. They all liked the solemn expression and wet eyes I had from missing the beloved Monarchs and their emergence. At least I got to release those butterflies appropriately along their Eastern migration route. This inspiration, a gift of Dad's 1918 version of Holland's Butterfly Book which I kept under my pillow and read with a flashlight provided my irreversible enlightenment. Doug Dawn. Woodland, CA In a message dated 5/7/00 9:18:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MWalker at gensym.com writes: > Subj: RE: There are releases and releases > Date: 5/7/00 9:18:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) > Sender: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Reply-to: MWalker at gensym.com > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > > In 1968 I was in the 4th grade, and we raised Japanese silkworm moths. I > was given the task of babysitting them after they pupated. It didn't occur > to me at the time that a lidless, unsupervised cardboard box full of cocoons > was a bad idea. I came home after school to find silk moths mating all over > my room. I found eggs all over my clothes and curtains. A few escaped. > The world hasn't been the same since. > > Mark Walker. > at Whiskey Pete's, Jean, NV > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Gochfeld [mailto:gochfeld at EOHSI.RUTGERS.EDU] > > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 4:31 AM > > To: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu; leps-l at lists.yale.edu > > Subject: There are releases and releases > > > > > > Ken raised an interesting historical question. Were there butterfly > > releases in 1973. I'm sure this list represents people of > > very diverse > > ages and very diverse localities and elementary schooling. We can > > identify our own experiences both regarding whether we raised and/or > > released butterflies in school and when we heard of butterfly > > releases > > at social events. > > > > I'll start. > > > > I graduated high school in 1957. We did have a junior > > Audubon Society > > in 4th grade (birds only) and a school botanical garden, but > > no raising > > of butterflies. We did dissect frogs in 10th grade biology. > > I never heard of a butterfly release here in NJ until about > > 1990. > > > > Mike Gochfeld > > From cgh at ifrance.com Mon May 8 04:39:29 2000 From: cgh at ifrance.com (CGH) Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 10:39:29 +0200 Subject: Unidentified caterpillar Message-ID: <8f5urr$cr0$1@reader1.fr.uu.net> Hello, I finded a Noctuidae caterpillar in France, in a forest near Paris (Versailles), a few day ago. It looks very agressive with others caterpillars (it killed one). It eat Castanea, Acer (Quercus ?) ... Could anyone indentify it, you can see photos to the address : http://www.triatel.com/lepido/inconnu/Noctu01.htm (Sorry for my english !) Thank you very much ! Christophe G?NST HORN http://www.triatel.com/lepido From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Mon May 8 06:02:59 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Mon, 08 May 00 10:02:59 GMT Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: , <3914FD68.CE0CB2C7@anu.ie> Message-ID: <957780179snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <3914FD68.CE0CB2C7 at anu.ie> viceroy at anu.ie "anne kilmer" writes: > I have pursued this on the glorious Web ... > They're finding that the nitrogen in vehicle emissions causes non-native > grasses to crowd out the native host plants that the Bay checkerspot > uses. > They now use cows (!) to graze down the grasses and find that the > butterfly returns. > Anybody think they're grazing the embattled area? > Cows are not an elegant solution anyway. I suppose the little man with > the bucket and spade is gathering the manure, but hooves dig up fragile > soil, destroy other plants, and cows are not that particular as to what > they eat. Anne, Actually I wouldn't worry too much about the cows. These grasslands would have been grazed in the past by wild herbivores. I presume California had buffalo before they were nearly exterminated? We use Cows on our Checkerspot sites here. They also have to be nutrient poor. The alternative is mowing and it has been found that it can reduce the diversity in the sward. Those hoof prints can be valuable germination areas. The Serpentine Grasslands you find the Bay Checkerspots on are gorgeous. They are full of a superb mix of wildflowers. We don't go around collecting the manure with a bucket and spade. Though it might help. The nitrogen is removed as the protein in the animals bodies. > Sheep and goats would be worse. > Any votes for Boy Scouts with Roundup onna stick? > Second graders with nail scissors? > The requirements for the bugs are frighteningly precise ... maybe we'll > win, and I'm glad we're trying, but oh Lordy, Lordy. Yes. This is the problem and why I get so frustrated by people who suggest, Oh we can just release a few somewhere. Bugs are phenomenally complicated creatures which is one of the fascinations for me. > http://www.hort.agri.umn.edu/h5015/97papers/mason.html > > Here's a nice site. > > Anne Kilmer > Mayo, Ireland > Doug Yanega wrote: -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From ngd at ceh.ac.uk Mon May 8 10:21:39 2000 From: ngd at ceh.ac.uk (Nick Greatorex-Davies) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 15:21:39 +0100 Subject: Checkerspot on the news Message-ID: Do you have a reference for that Anne. We did a paper a few years ago that looked at the spread of coarse grasses on a nature reserve here in the UK and changes (mostly increases) in numbers of some grass feeding butterflies and moths (Pollard et al (1998) Biological Conservation 84 17-24). One of the possible reasons for the increase in coarse grasses, we speculated was atmospheric nitrogen deposition (eg from exhaust emissions for cars), but we had no direct. evidence for this. Nick Mr J Nick Greatorex-Davies (Butterfly Monitoring Scheme co-ordinator) NERC Centre for Ecology and Hydrology Monks Wood Abbots Ripton Huntingdon Cambridgeshire PE28 2LS UK Tel: (+44) (0) 1487 773 381 Fax: (+44) (0) 1487 773 467 E-mail: ngd at ceh.ac.uk >>> anne kilmer 07/05/00 06:21:44 >>> I have pursued this on the glorious Web ... They're finding that the nitrogen in vehicle emissions causes non-native grasses to crowd out the native host plants that the Bay checkerspot uses. They now use cows (!) to graze down the grasses and find that the butterfly returns. Anybody think they're grazing the embattled area? Cows are not an elegant solution anyway. I suppose the little man with the bucket and spade is gathering the manure, but hooves dig up fragile soil, destroy other plants, and cows are not that particular as to what they eat. Sheep and goats would be worse. Any votes for Boy Scouts with Roundup onna stick? Second graders with nail scissors? The requirements for the bugs are frighteningly precise ... maybe we'll win, and I'm glad we're trying, but oh Lordy, Lordy. http://www.hort.agri.umn.edu/h5015/97papers/mason.html Here's a nice site. Anne Kilmer Mayo, Ireland Doug Yanega wrote: > > >http://www.butterfliesforsale.com/Species.htm > > > >Would that be the Chalcedon checkerspot, do you think? > > No, it would Euphydryas e. editha, known as the Bay Checkerspot (the name > "bayensis" is not valid). It *IS* Federally listed, and if it occurs on the > property in question (it's certainly the right area), then theoretically > there should be significant difficulties in getting the land developed. > Five years with no sightings is certainly possible on an inhabited piece of > property, though it all depends on the credibility of the consultants doing > the surveys. One certainly does hear of consulting firms who conveniently > fail to report positive sightings, or contract out to marginally competent > field people who don't do a thorough job of surveying. > > Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum > Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 > phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) > http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html > "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness > is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 From mjs323 at aol.com Mon May 8 11:16:02 2000 From: mjs323 at aol.com (MJS323) Date: 08 May 2000 15:16:02 GMT Subject: Help with larvae - south NV References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63BC@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <20000508111602.19274.00001653@ng-fv1.aol.com> The larvae are most likely the White Lined Sphinx. They have the color variations that you describe and can eat many different desert plants, especially plants in the Onograceae family, the Evening Primroses. With the right weather conditions, their larvae are often common in the desert. I would guess that they are the larvae you observed near Goodsprings. Mike Smith From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon May 8 00:28:51 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:28:51 -0500 Subject: Are environmental impact statements imperfect In-Reply-To: <1000507092804.ZM3606@Gochfeld> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000507232851.007fa540@mail.utexas.edu> Seems to me that an EIS survey can only show what is present, not what is absent, without significantly destroying the habitat. I have been appalled at the superficiality of most EIS reports I have seen. Perhaps we need some mechanism for conservation organizational review of EIS? ........Chris Durden At 09:28 7/05/00 -0400, you wrote: >Doug raises the question about the reliability (and or veracity) of >consultants performing environmental impact statements (or similar >surveys) of land slated for development. > >We are in the process of validating (or invalidating) an EIS submitted >for a 50A (20 Ha) plot of second growth woodland. The EIS was a >travesty. It's not surprising that it might have overlooked a threatened >species of Skipper (since the listing hadn't occurred yet and the >skipper is only active for about two weeks in late summer), but they >listed fewer than 20 trees, 20 breeding birds, no herps etc. > >It would be important, I think, if people become aware of EIS that are >similarly flawed, to do a side by side comparison and publish it. Or >perhaps we ought to collate these and do something big with it. > >I remember someone once saying that EIS were a deadly enemy because once >completed they took on a life of their own and became official, >regardless of the credentials of people who challenged them. > >Mike Gochfeld > > From kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk Mon May 8 13:13:30 2000 From: kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk (Roger KENDRICK) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 01:13:30 +0800 Subject: Are environmental impact statements imperfect References: <3.0.5.32.20000507232851.007fa540@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3916F5BA.A1CE14E3@hkusua.hku.hk> Perhaps there should be a legal requirement for EIA (EA...depends which country!) contractees to be associates or members of specified institutes, such as the Institute of Ecology & Environmental Management, or at least have passed appropriate levels of species identification programmes run by such organisations as national museums and institutes. The only forum for review in the UK is in effect a public enquiry, where the EIA can be challanged by anyone who has enough background knowledge (often in the form of contradictory evidence gained by recording the site in question on their own) and enough level headed calm to make a decent presentation. Even then it's down to what the presiding official will recommend (in effect he/she is sitting in for the relevent government minister, who receives a copy of the recommendation from the enquiry and deliberates appropriately, or inappropriately as the case often is!). Roger K. "Chris J. Durden" wrote: > .... > Perhaps we need some mechanism for conservation organizational review of > EIS? > ........Chris Durden -- Roger C. KENDRICK Demonstrator / Ph.D. Student Dept. of Ecology & Biodiversity, The University of Hong Kong mailto:kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk mailto:hkmoths at yahoo.co.uk Hong Kong Moths website coordinator http://hkusub.hku.hk/~kendrick/hkmoth.htm HK Lepidopterists' Society Website http://www.hkls.org http://hklg.163.net/ (Chinese summary) mailto:hkls at xoommail.com From viceroy at anu.ie Mon May 8 13:13:39 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 18:13:39 +0100 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: Message-ID: <3916F5C3.261F89E9@anu.ie> http://conbio.rice.edu/scb/announcements/Conbio_Tips-December_99.shtml COWS CAN SAVE BUTTERFLIES FROM AIR POLLUTION Although widely seen an ecological no-no, grazing turns out to be essential to a threatened butterfly in the San Francisco Bay Area. This conservation twist is due to connections between the butterflies, cows and cars, according to new research presented in the December issue of Conservation Biology. "My work untangles a complex web of ecological and human interactions," says Stuart Weiss of the Center for Conservation Biology at Stanford University. The basic story is that cars and other smog sources deposit extra nitrogen on nutrient-poor grasslands in the San Francisco Bay Area. This extra nitrogen enhances the invasion of non-native grasses, which displace the plants that Bay checkerspot butterflies depend on. Cows help the butterflies by eating the non-native grasses, which allows the native plants to grow. The two-inch, red-cream-and-black Bay checkerspot butterflies live only on outcrops of serpentinitic rock, which are unique partly because they have low nitrogen and patches of heavy metals. Serpentinitic grasslands have more than 100 species of native plants, several of which are endangered. Weiss discovered that grazing benefits Bay checkerspot butterflies by studying several serpentinitic sites in south San Jose. The sites had been grazed for decades but when grazing ceased at two of them in the mid-1990s, the butterfly populations there rapidly went extinct. In contrast, butterfly populations persisted at a site where grazing continued. The most obvious difference between the grazed and ungrazed sites was that the latter quickly became overrun by non- native grasses such as wild oats and Italian ryegrass. Previously, these sites had had dense stands of native plants; plants that Bay checkerspot larvae eat include California plantain and owl's clover, and plants that provide nectar for the adult butterflies include goldfields, tidy tips and wild onion. To demonstrate the link between non-native grasses and extra nitrogen in the butterfly's habitat, Weiss estimated how much airborne nitrogen was deposited on serpentinitic grasslands in south San Jose. He found that nitrogen levels were at least 10 pounds per acre per year, which over the course of several years is similar to the amounts typically used in experiments on the effects of fertilization. Weiss draws two main conservation lessons from his research. First, moderate grazing can benefit nitrogen-sensitive ecosystems by controlling non-native grasses and removing excess nitrogen. However, grazing is not perfect so he recommends testing fire and other methods for controlling non-native grasses. Second, because the San Francisco Bay Area meets federal and state standards for airborne nitrogen NOx, human health standards do not necessarily protect nitrogen-sensitive ecosystems. "Nitrogen deposition is becoming recognized as a major component of global change," says Weiss. In the U.S., nitrogen deposition is particularly high in the Sierra Nevada foothills, the mountains of Southern California, the Midwest and the East. For more information, contact Stuart Weiss (650-725-9915, stu at bing.stanford.edu). PHOTOS ARE AVAILABLE ON THE WEB: A Bay checkerspot butterfly A fenceline between grazed and ungrazed areas, showing flowers on one side and lush non-native grasses on the other Nick Greatorex-Davies wrote: > > Do you have a reference for that Anne. We did a paper a few years ago > that looked at the spread of coarse grasses on a nature reserve here > in the UK and changes (mostly increases) in numbers of some grass > feeding butterflies and moths (Pollard et al (1998) Biological > Conservation 84 17-24). One of the possible reasons for the increase > in coarse grasses, we speculated was atmospheric nitrogen deposition > (eg from exhaust emissions for cars), but we had no direct. evidence > for this. > > Nick > > Mr J Nick Greatorex-Davies > (Butterfly Monitoring Scheme co-ordinator) > NERC Centre for Ecology and Hydrology > Monks Wood > Abbots Ripton > Huntingdon > Cambridgeshire PE28 2LS UK > > Tel: (+44) (0) 1487 773 381 > Fax: (+44) (0) 1487 773 467 > E-mail: ngd at ceh.ac.uk > > >>> anne kilmer 07/05/00 06:21:44 >>> > I have pursued this on the glorious Web ... > They're finding that the nitrogen in vehicle emissions causes > non-native > grasses to crowd out the native host plants that the Bay checkerspot > uses. > They now use cows (!) to graze down the grasses and find that the > butterfly returns. > Anybody think they're grazing the embattled area? > Cows are not an elegant solution anyway. I suppose the little man > with > the bucket and spade is gathering the manure, but hooves dig up > fragile > soil, destroy other plants, and cows are not that particular as to > what > they eat. > Sheep and goats would be worse. > Any votes for Boy Scouts with Roundup onna stick? > Second graders with nail scissors? > The requirements for the bugs are frighteningly precise ... maybe > we'll > win, and I'm glad we're trying, but oh Lordy, Lordy. > > http://www.hort.agri.umn.edu/h5015/97papers/mason.html > > Here's a nice site. > > Anne Kilmer > Mayo, Ireland > Doug Yanega wrote: > > > > >http://www.butterfliesforsale.com/Species.htm > > > > > >Would that be the Chalcedon checkerspot, do you think? > > > > No, it would Euphydryas e. editha, known as the Bay Checkerspot > (the name > > "bayensis" is not valid). It *IS* Federally listed, and if it > occurs on the > > property in question (it's certainly the right area), then > theoretically > > there should be significant difficulties in getting the land > developed. > > Five years with no sightings is certainly possible on an inhabited > piece of > > property, though it all depends on the credibility of the > consultants doing > > the surveys. One certainly does hear of consulting firms who > conveniently > > fail to report positive sightings, or contract out to marginally > competent > > field people who don't do a thorough job of surveying. > > > > Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research > Museum > > Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 > > phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not > UCR's) > > http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html > > "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness > > is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 From kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk Mon May 8 13:21:22 2000 From: kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk (Roger KENDRICK) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 01:21:22 +0800 Subject: Unidentified caterpillar References: <8f5urr$cr0$1@reader1.fr.uu.net> Message-ID: <3916F792.ABE19AE7@hkusua.hku.hk> This is Cosmia trapezina (Linn.) (UK vernacular = The Dun-bar). from Porter (1997) "The larvae are readily taken by beating, especially at night when more active, often attacking other lepidopterous larvae while still on the sheet, and have also been known to nip unwary fingers when handled. They are easy to rear, but should be kept separately, pupating in a cocoon among plant litter or just in the soil". Reference: Porter, J., 1997. The Colour Identification Guide to Caterpillars of the British Isles (Macrolepidoptera). Viking Press, Harmondsworth, Middlesex, England. CGH wrote: > Hello, > > I finded a Noctuidae caterpillar in France, in a forest near Paris > (Versailles), a few day ago. > It looks very agressive with others caterpillars (it killed one). > It eat Castanea, Acer (Quercus ?) ... > Could anyone indentify it, you can see photos to the address : > http://www.triatel.com/lepido/inconnu/Noctu01.htm > (Sorry for my english !) > > Thank you very much ! > > Christophe G?NST HORN > http://www.triatel.com/lepido -- Roger C. KENDRICK Demonstrator / Ph.D. Student Dept. of Ecology & Biodiversity, The University of Hong Kong mailto:kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk mailing address: Flat 911, Block F, Telford Gardens, 33, Wai Yip Street, Kowloon Bay, Kowloon, Hong Kong Hong Kong Moths website coordinator http://hkusub.hku.hk/~kendrick/hkmoth.htm HK Lepidopterists' Society Website http://www.hkls.org http://hklg.163.net/ (Chinese summary) mailto:hkls at xoommail.com From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Mon May 8 14:03:19 2000 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:03:19 -0700 Subject: Are environmental impact statements imperfect Message-ID: Roger Kendrick wrote: >Perhaps there should be a legal requirement for EIA (EA...depends which >country!) contractees to be associates or members of specified institutes, >such as the Institute of Ecology & Environmental Management, or at least have >passed appropriate levels of species identification programmes run by such >organisations as national museums and institutes. While many of us agree with you, and would love to see this in practice, the simple fact is that there would - if this happened - be almost NO ONE left with the skills necessary to do such work, relative to the amount that needs to be done. Everything would come to a grinding halt, as the average time to complete an impact study would be about 10 years (9 of them just on a waiting list), and the developers would scream bloody murder (and justifiably so, really). The USFWS here gives ID tests to people before they issue permits to do Quino Checkerspot survey work, and even these tests - which do weed out at least the totally incompetent - are a poor substitute for field experience. Identifying a pinned specimen is quite different from knowing host plants, habitat, and being able to ID something on the wing from 50 meters away. Make the test more stringent, and there would be about a dozen qualified people left for all of Southern California, several of whom are not in a position to do survey work on a full-time basis. Hard to imagine how to resolve the need for competent people with the shortage *of* competent people, when there's no practical way to train more. Peace, Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Mon May 8 14:32:27 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Mon, 08 May 00 18:32:27 GMT Subject: Unidentified caterpillar References: <8f5urr$cr0$1@reader1.fr.uu.net> Message-ID: <957810747snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <8f5urr$cr0$1 at reader1.fr.uu.net> cgh at ifrance.com "CGH" writes: > Hello, > > I finded a Noctuidae caterpillar in France, in a forest near Paris > (Versailles), a few day ago. > It looks very agressive with others caterpillars (it killed one). > It eat Castanea, Acer (Quercus ?) ... > Could anyone indentify it, you can see photos to the address : > http://www.triatel.com/lepido/inconnu/Noctu01.htm > (Sorry for my english !) > > Thank you very much ! > > Christophe G?NST HORN > http://www.triatel.com/lepido Salut, Je regrette que mon ordinateur n'a pas des accents francaises Je pense que vous avez trouve la chenille d'un papillon de nuit que nous appellons "The Dunbar " en anglais. Le nom scientifique est Cosmia trapezina. Hello, I'm sorry but my computer doesn't have french accents. I think that you have found the catterpillar of a moth which we call "the Dunbar" in English. The scientific name is Cosmia trapezina. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Mon May 8 14:20:09 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Mon, 08 May 00 18:20:09 GMT Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <8es7mm$45ak$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>, <3913C835.556F8DD@bigvalley.net>, <391376FE.4083@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <957810009snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <391376FE.4083 at mindspring.com> cherubini at mindspring.com "Paul Cherubini" writes: > > Sally Daniels wrote: > > > I heard something on the news this morning about a checkerspot. They said > > that the Army Corps of Engineers gave a permit to a developer in San Jose, > > CA to put in a shopping mall. And now they will have to wait a year to start > > construction because of the checkerspot. What will waiting a year do? Do > > they plan to move the checkerspot? > > Pierre A Plauzoles wrote: > > > I haven't heard aboiut this one, I suspect that you are on the right track. > > Stupid, ignorant move in my opinion. > > According to a story in the San Jose [California] Mecury News: > > " the developer, William Lyon Homes Inc. has argued the butterfly has > not been observed on the property for at least five years and that > 71 acres of the 575-acre property will be preserved for the butterfly, and about> half of the entire parcel will be turned over to an environmental trust for > conservation purposes." > > Paul Cherubini Well the developer's argument about the species' absence has little weight when the known mathematical models of the species population dynamics are taken into account. It actually matters little whether the butterfly is present in any period rather whether the site is suitable and reasonably close to an occupied one. As I have said before checkerspot populations exist in metapopulations. These are linked groups of colonies where individual colonies become extinct to be eventually colonised from their neighbours. The classical model of metapopulation dynamics postulates that the number of occupied patches P at a given time t is given by dP/dt=cP(1-p)-eP where c and e are colonisation and extinction rates. What can be clearly seen from the mathematics is that EMPTY habitat is a fundamentally inherant component of the system. So suitable but unoccupied habitat in the vicinity of occupied habitat must be conserved. In fact if the mathematics is expanded on and worked up then the most modern experssion of it is the Incidence Function Model developed by Professor Ilkka Hanski at Helsinki. I know at least one of his team is subscribed so if I get it wrong I will be corrected. The model is far too complex to state in an email but it can be simplified to an approximation that states that 3 times the Square root of the habitat patches need to be occupied in order for the system to be stable. It can be seen from this that there could be an awful lot of empty but necessary habitat in the system. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Mon May 8 13:20:30 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Mon, 08 May 00 17:20:30 GMT Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: , <3.0.1.32.20000507074817.007da580@mail.ucr.edu> Message-ID: <957806430snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <3.0.1.32.20000507074817.007da580 at mail.ucr.edu> Gates at ucrac1.ucr.edu "Michael Gates" writes: > A few comments on a few responses... > > Doug Yanega wrote: > >>Would that be the Chalcedon checkerspot, do you think? > > > >No, it would Euphydryas e. editha, known as the Bay Checkerspot > > >Five years with no sightings is certainly possible on an inhabited piece of > >property, though it all depends on the credibility of the consultants doing > >the surveys. One certainly does hear of consulting firms who conveniently > >fail to report positive sightings, or contract out to marginally competent > >field people who don't do a thorough job of surveying. > > I agree 100% Doug. Some consultants can't help the fact that they don't have > years of experience with butterflies, but they get permitted for survey work > and are legitimately trying to increase their knowledge about their natural > history, etc. Bravo! However, there are slimebags in developers' pockets who > will say anything for a buck. It reminds me of a site near Temecula in S. > Cal. > two years ago that was surveyed by a "biostitute" who reported that no > hostplant > was to be seen for the listed Quino Checkerspot Butterfly. This site had been > partially graded. A legitimate biologist went out a few days later (on his own > dime) and found exceptional hostplant populations growing in and around the > ruts > left by the grader! I can confirm this because I saw it a couple days after > him. It seems people are no different in our part of the world. As our regulations stiffen we are finding more of this. The guys vary very greatly in quality I have several friends in the consultancy business. There are however some horror stories to tell. I can parallel the story above with our Checkerspot. An Environmental Impact assesment that actually stated that only one specimen of the foodplant was found when examination showed that there was a small field full. The CON-sultant is a phenomenon on both sides of the atlantic. As for developers and their claims read this one below. It is a hillarious poster put around a village in South Wales by local people who wanted to save a butterfly colony. A company spokesman did actually say the trees were stolen! -------------------------------------------------------------------- MISSING, BELIEVED STOLEN Two forty-foot high oak trees It has been reported that two large oak trees that have been growing on the site for many years have been "stolen" from under the eyes of the site occupiers, despite the employment of a professional security company. None of the occupiers of the site would have felled the trees without planning permission from the council and the only explanation possible is that the trees have been feloniously removed by unknown and unseen persons. Are all our trees at risk from the criminals responsible, and must we guard our gardens and allotments from this new type of plant theft? Can you help solve this crime? Did you see in the last three months any suspicious looking character making off with a 40-foot oak tree, that didn't look like his own? Have you ever been offered a similar tree, in the pub, that "fell off a lorry"? Have you seen lots of sawdust in places where it shouldn't be? The authorities are baffled, perhaps the local community can help!! If you know any thing, tell the company, or the council!!! -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Mon May 8 13:07:22 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Mon, 08 May 00 17:07:22 GMT Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <8es7mm$45ak$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>, <3913C835.556F8DD@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: <957805642snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <3913C835.556F8DD at bigvalley.net> sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com "Pierre A Plauzoles" writes: > Sunsol wrote: > > > I heard something on the news this morning about a checkerspot. They said > > that the Army Corps of Engineers gave a permit to a developer in San Jose, > > CA to put in a shopping mall. And now they will have to wait a year to start > > construction because of the checkerspot. What will waiting a year do? Do > > they plan to move the checkerspot? > > I haven't heard aboiut this one, I suspect that you are on the right track. > Stupid, ignorant move in my opinion. Ask Neil Jones how the same thing went in > Wales, and you will get a good idea of why I am so adamant about it. OK, Wales > and California don't match very well, but that is not my point. It doesn't appear that this is what is being suggested in San Jose but it does have some relevance. What Pierre is talking about is the destruction of the Selar (Pronounced like Cellar) grasslands site at Cwmgwrach (Koom GWRRahCH) in South Wales. ( Cwmgwrach means the Valley of the Witch) I have written about this before but I recently obtained details about more research done on the site which I include below. I know from my private correspondence that a number of lepidopterists are interested in the fate of this project which I have reported on before. The site contained a colony of the Checkerspot Butterfly Eurodryas (=Euphydryas) aurinia. Which is actually known by the common name of Marsh Fritillary. Physically the upperside of the butterfly looks very like the Quino Checkerspot. So much so that many people think that the picture of quino that I show them is in fact the British species. There were two attempts to move the butterfly by breeding it and releasing it in different areas. THESE FAILED. Conservationists know of over EIGHTY attempts to establish the Marsh Fritillary by releasing it at sites that have failed. There are NO long term successes AT ALL!. The site contained some of the finest examples of grassland I have seen ANYWHERE. The rich carpet of wild flowers so dominated the sward in places that there was hardly any grass. This place was so superbly rich that it had been described as of being the of quality of a "Nature Conservation Review Site". The designation means that it was a site of the highest possible quality. IT WAS DESTROYED!!!! The site is now a massive, gaping, ugly hole in the ground made by an opencast or "strip" mine for coal. At much expense some of the turves from the site were dug up and moved to another site some distance away. The effectiveness of such techniques has always been questionable. It has been likened to moving the Mona Lisa by cutting it into little pieces and pasting it on the outside wall of the Louvre. Considerable vindication of this position comes from some research published in the last few months in the journal Restoration Ecology. It documents in detail some of the changes on the translocated turves over just the first four years. It is clear that as an exercise in conserving the special qualities of the grasslands the project has been a failure. Firstly the species richness of the turves has declined dramatically. The dry turves that were moved had the worst losses with over half the plant species disappearing. The wet grassland turves faired a little better but even in this case nearly a third of the species have gone. Secondly the vegetation structure and type has changed dramatically. Many of the dry turves were of a rare and rich type of haymeadow which is given the name "MG5". After 4 years however they were showing a significant change, coming more to resemble as commoner and less rich type of grassland known as "U4". The wet turves were also something really special. They contained a rare type of Fen Meadow called "M24" , a classification that placed them in a category listed under the European Habitats Directive. A rich blend of wildflowers and Purple Moor Grass that is often beloved by Marsh Fritillaries. This fen meadow vegetation has also changed since it was moved. It also resembles more closely a commoner and less rich habitat. In this case one called "M25b" mire. Some wet heath of a rich type called M15c was also moved and it has now become what the paper calls,"an intergrade between a Rush Mire (M25b) and rather poor wet heath (M16b)." In general conclusion the paper stated "The characteristic community structure of the original vegetation was, in most cases lost or substantially altered. After 4 years the transplanted material was modified to become transitional between its original composition and the vegetation of the receiver areas." -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From acynor at fullerton.edu Mon May 8 15:58:50 2000 From: acynor at fullerton.edu (Anthony Cynor) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 12:58:50 -0700 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: , <3.0.1.32.20000507074817.007da580@mail.ucr.edu> <957806430snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39171C79.6376B97B@fullerton.edu> Neil: Were there stumps left or the trees completely gone? Tony Neil Jones wrote: > MISSING, BELIEVED STOLEN > > Two forty-foot high oak trees > > It has been reported that two large oak trees that have been > growing on the site for many years have been "stolen" > from under the eyes of the site occupiers, despite > the employment of a professional security company. > > None of the occupiers of the site would have felled the trees > without planning permission from the council and the only > explanation possible is that the trees have been feloniously > removed by unknown and unseen persons. > > Are all our trees at risk from the criminals responsible, and > must we guard our gardens and allotments from this new type > of plant theft? > > Can you help solve this crime? > Did you see in the last three months any suspicious looking > character making off with a 40-foot oak tree, that didn't look > like his own? > Have you ever been offered a similar tree, in the pub, that "fell > off a lorry"? > Have you seen lots of sawdust in places where it shouldn't be? > The authorities are baffled, perhaps the local community can > help!! > If you know any thing, tell the company, or the council!!! > > -- > Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ > "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the > butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog > National Nature Reserve From jshuey at tnc.org Mon May 8 15:16:22 2000 From: jshuey at tnc.org (John Shuey) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 14:16:22 -0500 Subject: Checkerspot on the news Message-ID: <39171286.407C31DE@tnc.org> Neil at NWJONES.DEMON.CO.UK wrote: > Well the developer's argument about the species' absence has little weight > when the known mathematical models of the species population dynamics are > taken into account. > It actually matters little whether the butterfly is present in any period > rather whether the site is suitable and reasonably close to an occupied one. > > As I have said before checkerspot populations exist in metapopulations. > These are linked groups of colonies where individual colonies become extinct > to be eventually colonised from their neighbours. The classical model of > metapopulation > dynamics postulates that the number of occupied patches P at a given time > t is given by dP/dt=cP(1-p)-eP where c and e are colonisation and > extinction rates. > > What can be clearly seen from the mathematics is that EMPTY habitat is a > fundamentally inherant component of the system. So suitable but unoccupied > habitat in the vicinity of occupied habitat must be conserved. > > In fact if the mathematics is expanded on and worked up then the most modern > experssion of it is the Incidence Function Model developed by Professor > Ilkka Hanski at Helsinki. I know at least one of his team is subscribed > so if I get it wrong I will be corrected. > The model is far too complex to state in an email but it can be simplified > to an approximation that states that 3 times the Square root of the habitat > patches need to be occupied in order for the system to be stable. > It can be seen from this that there could be an awful lot of empty but > necessary habitat in the system. > Unfortunately, this is a simplification based on traditional metapopulation models, applied to an animal that doesn't fit the traditional model. As I remember, most folks think that Bay Checkerspots are structured as a Source-Sink metapopulation as opposed to the traditional (albeit very rare) true (extinction-recolonization) metapopulation. The persistence of a source-sink metapopulation, for example, depends on the viability of the source population. The smaller, occasionally occupied sinks contribute little, if anything, to the long-term persistence of the metapopulation (Susan Harrison 1991). Thus, only the factors influencing the viability of the source population (e.g., patch area and population densities) are of management concern. The Bay Checkerspot is usually heralded as the stereotypical source-sink metapopulation animal in the US (and Harrison originated the concept after working with the species as part of Ehrlich's group). Conversely, in an extinction-recolonization structure, all local populations are vulnerable to extinction, and thus, influential in the persistence of the metapopulation. In this type of structure, the factors controlling extinction and recolonization rates (e.g., number of occupied and unoccupied patches, patch size, patch population densities, arrangement of patches and corridor availability) (Harrison 1991, Neve et al. 1996) are of management concern. In the US, the Karner Blue is the poster child for this type of population structure. The implications are severe from a conservation standpoint. With a source-sink model it is fairly easy to argue that small "sink" populations are not important for survival. In this case, the source population (associated with a landfill and managed for the butterfly) is supposedly secure. Because other occupied or unoccupied habitat patches presumably do not influence population persistence at the source, they may be deemed non-vital for the conservation of this animal. I'm not endorsing this approach (in part because I think that there are other, genetic implications to population persistence in a dispersal friendly world), but it is an easy one to argue based on the math. -- John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy phone: 317-923-7547 fax: 317-923-7582 email: Jshuey at tnc.org From patfoley at csus.edu Mon May 8 16:59:24 2000 From: patfoley at csus.edu (Patrick Foley) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 13:59:24 -0700 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <39171286.407C31DE@tnc.org> Message-ID: <39172AAC.7AB7DF25@csus.edu> Leppers, Ron Pulliam's idea for sources and sinks defines sink populations as those in deterministically disadvantageous patches (Expected r < 0) (Pulliam 1988. American Naturalist 132:652-661). Susan Harrison's patches are not sinks in that sense. They go extinct due to environmental stochasticity (weather related mostly) (Foley 1994. Conservation Biology). They do belong to a metapopulation (in the broad sense) in which as John Shuey states large patches act as the main sources of colonists. Narrow sense metapopulations (in Levins' original model) depend on all the patches for persistence. While my criticism of the term "source-sink metapopulation" for use in the case of the bay checkerspot is semantic (definitional), it is important to avoid confusing the already confusing language of metapopulations. Ilkka Hanski 1999, Metapopulation Ecology covers this ground on p. 50. Ilkka argues that even source-sink metapopulations (in the deterministic-sink sense) may get some persistence from their sinks.Susan's metapopulation may get even more help from the transient patches Nonetheless it is true that in metapopulations with varying patch size, the smaller patches are most dispensable. Incidentally, the persistence of metapopulations has only been modeled effectively for the simplest cases, such as the Levins' metapopulation with no correlated extinctions between patches. Russ Lande has done some work on this as have I. Patrick Foley patfoley at csus.edu John Shuey wrote: > Neil at NWJONES.DEMON.CO.UK wrote: > > > Well the developer's argument about the species' absence has little > weight > > when the known mathematical models of the species population dynamics > are > > taken into account. > > It actually matters little whether the butterfly is present in any > period > > rather whether the site is suitable and reasonably close to an > occupied one. > > > > As I have said before checkerspot populations exist in > metapopulations. > > These are linked groups of colonies where individual colonies become > extinct > > to be eventually colonised from their neighbours. The classical model > of > > metapopulation > > dynamics postulates that the number of occupied patches P at a given > time > > t is given by dP/dt=cP(1-p)-eP where c and e are colonisation and > > extinction rates. > > > > What can be clearly seen from the mathematics is that EMPTY habitat is > a > > fundamentally inherant component of the system. So suitable but > unoccupied > > habitat in the vicinity of occupied habitat must be conserved. > > > > In fact if the mathematics is expanded on and worked up then the most > modern > > experssion of it is the Incidence Function Model developed by > Professor > > Ilkka Hanski at Helsinki. I know at least one of his team is > subscribed > > so if I get it wrong I will be corrected. > > The model is far too complex to state in an email but it can be > simplified > > to an approximation that states that 3 times the Square root of the > habitat > > patches need to be occupied in order for the system to be stable. > > It can be seen from this that there could be an awful lot of empty but > > > necessary habitat in the system. > > > > Unfortunately, this is a simplification based on traditional > metapopulation models, applied > to an animal that doesn't fit the traditional model. > > As I remember, most folks think that Bay Checkerspots are structured as > a Source-Sink > metapopulation as opposed to the traditional (albeit very rare) true > (extinction-recolonization) metapopulation. The persistence of a > source-sink metapopulation, > for example, depends on the viability of the source population. The > smaller, occasionally occupied sinks contribute little, if anything, to > the long-term > persistence of the metapopulation (Susan Harrison 1991). Thus, only the > factors influencing the viability of the source population (e.g., patch > area and population > densities) are of management concern. The Bay Checkerspot is usually > heralded as the stereotypical source-sink metapopulation animal in the > US (and Harrison > originated the concept after working with the species as part of > Ehrlich's > group). > > Conversely, in an extinction-recolonization structure, all local > populations are vulnerable > to extinction, and thus, influential in the persistence of the > metapopulation. In this type of structure, the factors controlling > extinction and > recolonization rates (e.g., number of occupied and unoccupied patches, > patch > size, patch population densities, arrangement of patches and corridor > availability) (Harrison > 1991, Neve et al. 1996) are of management concern. In the US, the > Karner Blue is the poster child for this type of population structure. > > The implications are severe from a conservation standpoint. With a > source-sink model it is > fairly easy to argue that small "sink" populations are not important > for survival. In this case, the source population (associated with a > landfill and managed > for the butterfly) is supposedly secure. Because other occupied or > unoccupied habitat patches presumably do not influence population > persistence at the source, > they may be deemed non-vital for the conservation of this animal. > > I'm not endorsing this approach (in part because I think that there are > other, genetic > implications to population persistence in a dispersal friendly world), > but > it is an easy one to argue based on the math. > > -- > John Shuey > Director of Conservation Science > Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy > > phone: 317-923-7547 > fax: 317-923-7582 > email: Jshuey at tnc.org From gganweiler at sprint.ca Mon May 8 20:13:54 2000 From: gganweiler at sprint.ca (Gary Anweiler) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 00:13:54 GMT Subject: Are environmental impact statements imperfect References: Message-ID: <01bfb94b$03d8f860$52bd94d1@gganweiler> This is kind of like asking if reality is real. Depends eh As someone who DID a lot of impact assessments (mainly vertebrate) in my time - and as concientiously as I could - I can say this. It IS possible for a contractor to obtain much of the knowledge he/she needs to work on a specific project (i.e. I would have contacted whoever I could find who was considered an expert on a particular issue or organism and asked for their input - read everything about the organism in question I could locate - and put together a plan that addressed the concerns to be investigated. HOWEVER, I don't think it is very possible to not be somewhat biased towards the view of whoever is funding the project. There are, after all, many ways to look at and interpret data - especially when one is working under time, funding and other constraints. At best I think the limitations of a particular study can be pointed out in the report. I think many consultants do the best they can - otherwise they would soon lose any credibility. I am sure all this varies greatly with jurisdiction and other factors. Bottom line is I am no longer doing that work. Got tired of being the last one out before the bulldozers pulled in. From niklas.wahlberg at helsinki.fi Tue May 9 02:10:39 2000 From: niklas.wahlberg at helsinki.fi (Niklas Wahlberg) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:10:39 +0300 Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <39171286.407C31DE@tnc.org> <39172AAC.7AB7DF25@csus.edu> Message-ID: <3917ABDF.7BC338F9@helsinki.fi> Dear Leps-Listers, To continue on the metapopulation theme, I would like to remind you that the spatial population structure of a species is not constant over its range. For instance the species that has been discussed in this thread (Euphydryas editha) has a so-called "mainland-island" population structure in the San Fransisco area (as was discussed by John and Patrick), whereas in the Sierra Nevada mountains the same species (albeit a different subspecies) has a more classical metapopulation structure (Thomas and Singer 1998). The main implication of this is that one can't really generalize _even within the same species_ without taking into account the local landscape structure. Also touting numbers derived from models is not a good idea in practical conservation. Models allow us to get crucial insights into how Nature works, but the bottom line is that they are (usually extreme) simplifications of what really happens. This means that some factors that might have a large effect on the dynamics of natural populations may be missed out or wrongly modelled. The best example that is still hanging is how to incorporate environmental stochasticity into our models. We all know that the meteorologists have difficulties in predicting the weather next month, so how can we rely on the quantitative predictions of our models that are usually run for hundreds or thousands of "generations"?! Nevertheless, I think that the concept of metapopulations has brought much to conservation. A good rule of thumb is that suitable habitat that does not have a certain species is as important as habitat that does have the species. We've been studying a relative of E. editha, Melitaea cinxia, for the past 7 years here in Finland. In a patch network of several thousand suitable habitat patches there have been several hundred local populations each year. All but a handful have gone extinct _at least_ once during the study period (read all about it in Hanski 1999, Metapopulation Ecology.). This, I think, underlines the importance of habitat that is empty today. It might not be tomorrow. Cheers, Niklas -- ________________________________________________________________________ Niklas Wahlberg Metapopulation Research Group Department of Ecology and Systematics Division of Population Biology PO Box 17 (Arkadiankatu 7) 00014 University of Helsinki Finland p. +358-9-191 7378, fax +358-9-191 7301 Check out our web-site: http://www.helsinki.fi/science/metapop/ From plauzolesp at bigvalley.net Tue May 9 02:57:53 2000 From: plauzolesp at bigvalley.net (Pierre A Plauzoles) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 23:57:53 -0700 Subject: Unidentified caterpillar References: <8f5urr$cr0$1@reader1.fr.uu.net> Message-ID: <3917B6F1.FB1A404F@bigvalley.net> CGH wrote: > I finded a Noctuidae caterpillar in France, in a forest near Paris > (Versailles), a few day ago. > It looks very agressive with others caterpillars (it killed one). > It eat Castanea, Acer (Quercus ?) ... > Could anyone indentify it, you can see photos to the address : > http://www.triatel.com/lepido/inconnu/Noctu01.htm > (Sorry for my english !) Pardonn?. Pierre Zagatti (Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique, Versailles) est sans doute l'expert dans ce domaine. Malgr? sa sp?cialit? (lepidopt?res, particuli?rement les attacid?s/saturnid?s et les sphinxes de la r?gion de Martinique et la Guadeloupe), je suis certain qu'il connait tr?s bien la faune de la r?gion parisienne. Voir son site Web pour des d?tails sur les sphinxes des Antilles: http://www.inra.fr/Internet/Produits/PAPILLON/sphingid/textfr/sphingid.htm Bonne chance. Pierre A Plauzoles sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com From cthomp1 at earthlink.net Tue May 9 05:26:00 2000 From: cthomp1 at earthlink.net (Clark) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:26:00 GMT Subject: I design & host web sites for insect traders Message-ID: If you have insect specimens to sell or trade and would like to get an inexpensive web site for your enterprise, this message will be of interest to you. Please go to http://www.insectnet.com and click on the 'Get a Web Site!' link for details. Thank you From jhimmel at connix.com Tue May 9 07:34:31 2000 From: jhimmel at connix.com (JH) Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 07:34:31 -0400 Subject: New arrival Message-ID: <002a01bfb9aa$8e090d40$bb63f6cd@pjhimmel> 2 Luna Moths (Actias luna) showed up last night at my light sheet in Killingworth, CT! Nothing like the first big saturniid of the season!! There's a picture of one of them at the address below. http://homepage.altavista.com/booksandnature/Guesswho.html ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: John Himmelman Killingworth, CT USA jhimmel at connix.com ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/booksandnature.html http://homepage.av.com/ctamphibians/ctamphibians.html Info on Trinidad & Tobago Tour, 10/00: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/SA.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000509/84138685/attachment.html From wingsabc at aol.com Wed May 3 15:23:09 2000 From: wingsabc at aol.com (WingsABC) Date: 03 May 2000 19:23:09 GMT Subject: The Butterfly Alphabet Message-ID: <20000503152309.20540.00000999@ng-fb1.aol.com> Dear Butterfly Enthusiast Thank you for your interest in the discovery of my Butterfly Alphabet! Yours, Kjell B. Sandved: DIVINE DESIGN For a thousand years the English-speaking world has been happy with one Alphabet, the Roman. No one had ever found letters as written by nature???s own hand. Now we have found a second, or rather the first, nature???s own alphabet, the real language of dreams and love, the Butterfly Alphabet. It has been flying around on this earth for over 50 million years. Nature???s Message was always there and for us to see . . . it was written on the wings of butterflies! If you can???t wait to see the magnificent Butterfly Alphabet click on this link, http://www.butterflyalphabet.com. DISCOVERY IN THE ATTIC This most extraordinary discovery began in the attic of the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC. Kjell ("Shell") was balancing high on a ladder, surrounded by drawers and boxes full of exotic butterflies. When he opened an aromatic old Havana cigar box, there it was woven into the tapestry of a wing: a silvery, gleaming letter "F." "I looked under the microscope at this miniature design," Kjell recalls, "and marveled at the scales in soft pastel and sparkling silver. Not even a calligrapher could have improved on its beauty. It reminded me of how the ancient scribes lovingly embellished letters in bibles and illuminated manuscripts with human and animal forms." Intrigued, Kjell photographed the letter and hung the print next to his desk where he admired it for over a year. INSPIRATION Then one day it dawned on him that having found one letter of the alphabet there might be others flying around. Could he find them all? What a challenge. Inspired his nine was quickly made up. "I was going to be the first to try." He tells us. Little did he know that it would take him 24 years! There was a problem though, he had never taken a picture before and knew nothing about photography! "I don't want to think about how many awful pictures I ground out those first years," Kjell reveals "but when you do something for the sheer love of creating, you can achieve anything, mistakes and all, but I must admit, had it not been for epoxy glue, I would never have been able to do it." It is hard to believe that photography was to become Kjell???s second career . It would change the course of his life . . . and so the story continues on the order form, please click here http://www.butterflyalphabet.com/print.html Internet: www.butterflyalphabet.com E-mail: sales at butterflyalphabet.com Phone: (800) ABC-WING Fax: (202) 966-5799 Kjell B. Sandved, P.O. Box 39138, Washington, D.C., 20016 See more of Kjell's nature photos: Kodak's Photographer of the Year at www.kodak.com find: Close to Perfection From josylvestre at sympatico.ca Tue May 9 09:52:24 2000 From: josylvestre at sympatico.ca (Jonathan Sylvestre) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 13:52:24 GMT Subject: observations (8-V-2000) Message-ID: Date and time : Monday 8-V-2000 13h00-15h00 HAE Location : Between Manseau and St-Louis de Blanford, Quebec, Canada (approximatly 46,25? N 72? W ) Habitat : Coniferous forest on sand dunes (Larix laricina, Pinus strobus, Pinus resinosa, Pinus divaricata, Pinus rigida? silvestris?, Picea mariana, Picea glauca, Norway Spruce ??, Abies balsamea ...). Many little to medium acid bogs, small lake and swamp. Observations made on a sand road. Wheater : 25 ?C no wind, partly cloud Observations : Callophrys henrici : very common (>20) C. augustus : common (>10) C. niphon : very common (>30) C. lanoraieensis : 7 C. polia : 2 Pieris napi : 1 Vanessa atalanta : 1 Celastrina ladon : abundant (>50 maybe 60 or 70) Nymphalis antionpa : 8 Many unidentified microleps and geometriidae I was looking for Heliothis borealis but did not see any. Does anyone know such habitat where 5 species of callophrys fly at the same time ? Jonathan Sylvestre http://fly.to/lepidoptera/ josylvestre at sympatico.ca From jshuey at tnc.org Tue May 9 10:15:36 2000 From: jshuey at tnc.org (John Shuey) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:15:36 -0500 Subject: Metapopulations in conservation (was: Checkerspot in the news) References: Message-ID: <39181D87.38929B0C@tnc.org> Here's a long train of thought on a new twist to this old thread. I'm looking for feedback and ideas that might help refine this approach to conservation. niklas.wahlberg at helsinki.fi wrote (in part): > .... Nevertheless, I think that the concept of metapopulations has > brought > much to conservation. A good rule of thumb is that suitable habitat that > does not have a certain species is as important as habitat that does > have the species. We've been studying a relative of E. editha, Melitaea > cinxia, for the past 7 years here in Finland. In a patch network of > several thousand suitable habitat patches there have been several > hundred local populations each year. All but a handful have gone extinct > _at least_ once during the study period .... Indeed, metapopulations theory permeates almost everything we do (at TNC) in the Midwestern US, where because of habitat conversion to agriculture, almost all native species survive as "artificial metapopulations". By framing our efforts in light of metapopulations, and designing reserves that can seeming accommodate metapopulation function, we believe that we can maximize conservation at our sites. Almost by definition, classic metapopulations are inherently unstable, subject to stochastic variables likely to result in local population extinctions. All else being equally between two species, a species with a true metapopulations structure is harder to conserve than a species that grades toward patchiness. Almost every action that you can take to enhance metapopulation function should enhance viability of other types of populations (with exceptions for disease and outbreeding depression - neither of which have been an issue at sites I'm familiar with). Thus said (and assuming that its actually true), a conservative approach towards conservation is to accommodate metapopulations at conservation sites. The down side is that we know nothing about population structure of most species at sites, which can range from flies that form leaf galls, to plants that require specific pollinators. So, we develop strategies that should generically influence two portions of metapop equations. First, we address habitat patch size (which should correlate to population size for most targets, hence influencing the probability of extinction). Second, we attempt to increase the re-colonization rate between habitat patches, such that at minimum, emigration between patches equally local extinction (preferably it swamps the local extinction rate - and you end up with 75% or greater patch occupancy). We usually do this by looking at the spatial distribution of habitat patches. Seems simple enough, so here are two examples from NW Indiana, originally dominated by mesic prairie with oak savanna scattered on sand ridges. This region has been almost completely converted to row-crop agriculture (>95% in some counties). Wildfire originally maintained open grasslands and savanna - but now our surviving ecosystem remnants are fire suppressed and and densely shaded (unless they are already managed for biodiversity). Example 1. Jasper County. Extensive oak savanna remnants persist on glacial outwash, isolated by a sea of agriculture. Our approach here is two phased. First we (and the the State of Indiana) have acquired the largest and best of these remnants, and are aggressively restoring open savanna conditions (70% canopy removal combined with Rx fire). We now have series of habitat islands ranging in size from 500-1,000 acres, but separated by up 4 miles of inhospitable land. These initial sites were chosen because (on a relative scale) they still maintained significant portions of their native biota. The sites offer internal redundancy of ecotones and micro-habitats and are large enough to accommodate a conservation fire rotation. Basically, they are the best sites for "stand-alone preserves". But, they are still stand-alone preserves, supporting at best, poorly functional metapopulations, or more likely isolated populations. Thus, we have decided to build a better archipelago, and we are now acquiring and restoring degraded "stepping stone" savannas will that bridge the gaps. These will include tiny remnants that by themselves, we would never have considered viable (e.g. as small as 40 acres). Our goal is to reduce the maximum distance between high-quality savanna patches to 0.5 miles, with the average distance being more like 0.3 miles. I think that this will enhance viability of the entire system for the long-term - allowing species that are absent from key sites, to re-colonize the larger preserve on their own (in essence, we hope to re-create conditions that will allow metapopulations to function over this landscape). Implementation will require about 1,000 acres of additional land, and with initial restoration, total costs of this additional effort will run about US$3M. Example 2. Newton County Sand Prairies and Savannas. This site is very similar to previous example, except that two species of prairie did not get plowed under. One of these (just across the state line in Illinois) is 2,400 acres, and is probably viable as a stand-alone site. The other is a 640 acre wet to dry sand prairie, that is situated between two savanna remnants, each about two miles away. Here we have decided to re-create a contiguous landscape (largely because of the rarity of the sand prairie habitat and the species it supports). Thus we purchased 7,000 acres of row-crop farmland that physically connects, the prairie with these two savanna remnants. Our goal here is actually to destroy "artificial" metapopulation structure as best as possible, creating instead a series of patchy populations that occupy about 15 square miles of grassland / savanna habitat. The restoration is designed to maximize internal ecological redundancy and complexity, such that once it becomes fully integrated into the natural system (maybe in 100 years or so), populations of native grassland species will find their "natural" structure at the site. The cost of this effort will be about US$20M. Conservation was a lot cheaper before metapopulations were "discovered". Note that these examples are both grand experiments. We are in the process of developing "tools" to assess our ability to expand populations of conservative insects at these sites, but for the vast majority of species, we will likely never know if or how we influenced their persistence in these systems. But based on my current train of thought, these seem like reasonable strategies, likely to produce positive results. -- John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy phone: 317-923-7547 fax: 317-923-7582 email: Jshuey at tnc.org From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon May 8 23:41:19 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:41:19 -0500 Subject: Are environmental impact statements imperfect In-Reply-To: <01bfb94b$03d8f860$52bd94d1@gganweiler> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000508224119.008f1da0@mail.utexas.edu> I agree that most EIS contractors are dedicated, very hardworking, sincere people. The first problem is that they are expected to be experienced universal biologists/naturalists, when this is a specialty not adequately taught in our universities for nearly a half century - it is old fashioned science. The second problem is that they are expected to survey and sample conditions of the moment, and compare their findings with the normal condition - when there has been no base-line survey conducted to establish what "normal" was! The third problem is that when they turn to experts in a particular group (if they can be found) they often find that they are themselves the expert, because no-one else has studied the organisms of interest anywhere near the region of interest. EIS seems premature in those regions of the world that are still being described. If half the money thrown at EIS were redirected to biological survey we would start to obtain some realistic figures of true biotic diversity and begin to have some real figures on actual extinction rates. These remarks do not apply in general to work on birds, mammals, reptiles, amphibians and fish in Greater Europe and parts of North America. Apart from Britain, there is little known about butterfly distribution and ecology, because the baseline biogeographic description has just not yet been done. In my local region (Balconian Canyonlands of Texas) most EIS work is nebulously non biologic computer assessment of habitats predicted from skeleton databases or it is primary biological survey which uncovers new species (even vertebrates in need of description and listing). To think of this work as adequate EIS, suitable for development and policy decision-making is a travesty. The bottom line is - applied science (EIS) cannot be done until basic science (descriptive survey) has been done. .......Chris Durden At 12:13 9/05/00 GMT, you wrote: >This is kind of like asking if reality is real. Depends eh > >As someone who DID a lot of impact assessments (mainly vertebrate) in my >time - and as concientiously as I could - I can say this. It IS possible >for a contractor to obtain much of the knowledge he/she needs to work on a >specific project (i.e. I would have contacted whoever I could find who was >considered an expert on a particular issue or organism and asked for their >input - read everything about the organism in question I could locate - and >put together a plan that addressed the concerns to be investigated. >HOWEVER, I don't think it is very possible to not be somewhat biased >towards the view of whoever is funding the project. There are, after all, >many ways to look at and interpret data - especially when one is working >under time, funding and other constraints. At best I think the limitations >of a particular study can be pointed out in the report. I think many >consultants do the best they can - otherwise they would soon lose any >credibility. > >I am sure all this varies greatly with jurisdiction and other factors. >Bottom line is I am no longer doing that work. Got tired of being the last >one out before the bulldozers pulled in. > > From mikem at spamblock.mnsi.net Tue May 9 13:14:26 2000 From: mikem at spamblock.mnsi.net (Mikey) Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:14:26 -0400 Subject: G.isabellae Message-ID: <8f9hfc02p8@enews3.newsguy.com> I need some info on the mating behaviour of Graellsia isabellae.I would like to know what time of night they pair,how long they stay coupled, and any other bits of info on this moth. Thanks From snakefly at my-deja.com Tue May 9 14:33:55 2000 From: snakefly at my-deja.com (snakefly at my-deja.com) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 18:33:55 GMT Subject: amber and 10x triplet loupes Message-ID: <8f9lmh$mu3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> I invite you to visit my website, The Dead Bug in Amber Club, (http://Snakefly.tripod.com). I have available Dominican amber with insect inclusions. I also offer an excellent 10x triplet loupe manufactured by the BelOMO company. I have more information on my website. If you have questions, contact me off list. Yale Goldman The Dead Bug in Amber Club http://Snakefly.tripod.com/ Snakefly99 at angelfire.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From mikem at spamblock.mnsi.net Tue May 9 16:40:37 2000 From: mikem at spamblock.mnsi.net (Mikey) Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:40:37 -0400 Subject: Windsor(Ontario) Butterflies References: <3916706A.F9C6306C@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <8f9tah018c5@enews4.newsguy.com> I saw monarch in Point Pelee Nat. Park area on Sun. Saw tiger Swallowtail today at noon. Mike Donald Davis wrote in message news:3916706A.F9C6306C at utoronto.ca... > With very warm temperatures and southerly winds, there was a huge bird > migration into Ontario this past weekend. However, still no report of > the first sighting of a migrating monarch butterfly. Apparently there > are many sighting in the northern states bordering Ontario. Please send > your reports to this writer or to Journey North (www.learner.org/jnorth) > > Don Davis > Toronto, ON > > donald_davis at stu.wdw.utoronto.ca > ----------------------------------------------- > Here are some Point Pelee National Park sightings courtesy of ONTBIRDS > and reported by Alan Wormington: > > BUTTERFLIES -- Tom Hanrahan observed a Common Sooty-Wing this morning in > > the septic field E of the Visitor Centre, a record-early observation for > > Point Pelee. Species present that are numerous right now include Red > Admiral, Eastern Comma, American Painted-Lady, Spring Azure, Cabbage > White and a few Tiger Swallowtails. There have also been a few Olive > (Juniper) Hairstreaks reported during the last couple of day. > > Alan Wormington > Staff, Friends of Point Pelee > ------------------------- > P.S. In the north country - and you don't have to go that far north - > there has been a very successful hatching of black flies. So much so > that children have to play indoors in many regions. > From wkehm at n-jcenter.com Tue May 9 16:00:18 2000 From: wkehm at n-jcenter.com (Bill Kehm) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 16:00:18 -0400 Subject: Test Message-ID: <39186E51.5A7F@n-jcenter.com> Ignore -- \ / .-. \ / .-. { o \ W / o } `. > ! < .' { o }^{ o } `!' `!' From dd at skagen-natur.dk Tue May 9 15:11:13 2000 From: dd at skagen-natur.dk (Morten DD Hansen) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 21:11:13 +0200 Subject: Vanessa cardui, Denmark Message-ID: <391862D0.2001FAB4@skagen-natur.dk> Hi all Today the first painted ladies showed up at the famous Danish migration hotspot Skagen (northernmost part of mainland Europe). Two individuals migrated E in the afternoon. kind regards Morten DD Hansen From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Tue May 9 11:42:57 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Tue, 09 May 00 15:42:57 GMT Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <3.0.1.32.20000507074817.007da580@mail.ucr.edu>, <957806430snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk>, <39171C79.6376B97B@fullerton.edu> Message-ID: <957886977snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <39171C79.6376B97B at fullerton.edu> acynor at fullerton.edu "Anthony Cynor" writes: There were stumps. Someone, nobody knows exactly who, had cut them down. > Neil: > > Were there stumps left or the trees completely gone? > > Tony > > Neil Jones wrote: > > > MISSING, BELIEVED STOLEN > > > > Two forty-foot high oak trees > > > > It has been reported that two large oak trees that have been > > growing on the site for many years have been "stolen" > > from under the eyes of the site occupiers, despite > > the employment of a professional security company. > > > > None of the occupiers of the site would have felled the trees > > without planning permission from the council and the only > > explanation possible is that the trees have been feloniously > > removed by unknown and unseen persons. > > > > Are all our trees at risk from the criminals responsible, and > > must we guard our gardens and allotments from this new type > > of plant theft? > > > > Can you help solve this crime? > > Did you see in the last three months any suspicious looking > > character making off with a 40-foot oak tree, that didn't look > > like his own? > > Have you ever been offered a similar tree, in the pub, that "fell > > off a lorry"? > > Have you seen lots of sawdust in places where it shouldn't be? > > The authorities are baffled, perhaps the local community can > > help!! > > If you know any thing, tell the company, or the council!!! > > > > -- > > Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ > > "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the > > butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog > > National Nature Reserve > > -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Tue May 9 11:59:44 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Tue, 09 May 00 15:59:44 GMT Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: <39171286.407C31DE@tnc.org>, <39172AAC.7AB7DF25@csus.edu>, <3917ABDF.7BC338F9@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <957887984snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <3917ABDF.7BC338F9 at helsinki.fi> niklas.wahlberg at helsinki.fi "Niklas Wahlberg" writes: Thanks for making these points they are very useful. > Dear Leps-Listers, > To continue on the metapopulation theme, I would like to remind you > that the spatial population structure of a species is not constant over > its range. For instance the species that has been discussed in this > thread (Euphydryas editha) has a so-called "mainland-island" population > structure in the San Fransisco area (as was discussed by John and > Patrick), whereas in the Sierra Nevada mountains the same species > (albeit a different subspecies) has a more classical metapopulation > structure (Thomas and Singer 1998). The main implication of this is that > one can't really generalize _even within the same species_ without > taking into account the local landscape structure. > Also touting numbers derived from models is not a good idea in > practical conservation. Models allow us to get crucial insights into how > Nature works, but the bottom line is that they are (usually extreme) > simplifications of what really happens. This means that some factors > that might have a large effect on the dynamics of natural populations > may be missed out or wrongly modelled. Yes, Of course the numbers are not exact. I was wrong not to have followed the simplification with the proviso that the models specified an exacting and "perfect" case which will differ in real life. This is due to things we cannot allow for. I usually do when I am explaining it to people as I did the last time I quoted it here. I try to put things so that the ordinary layman lepidopterist, who is not into reading long complicated books and papers full of mathematics, can understand them. "3 times the Square root" is problably complicated enough. It is not that people are stupid it is just that mathematics can frighten people. I regularly have to get this point across to keen naturalists who don't have a background in mathematics so I try to put it simply. To give you an example which I might have mentioned before. I was once trying to convince a British Planning Inspector about the need to conserve empty habitat patches. He was deciding on the building of a new road which might impact on the habitat of the Marsh Fritillary. E. aurinia. I used the single equation dP/dt=cP(1-p)-eP. His repsonse was to ask in a "posh educated" voice. "Is that an equals sign or a proportional to sign?" > The best example that is still > hanging is how to incorporate environmental stochasticity into our > models. We all know that the meteorologists have difficulties in > predicting the weather next month, so how can we rely on the > quantitative predictions of our models that are usually run for hundreds > or thousands of "generations"?! > Nevertheless, I think that the concept of metapopulations has brought > much to conservation. A good rule of thumb is that suitable habitat that > does not have a certain species is as important as habitat that does > have the species. We've been studying a relative of E. editha, Melitaea > cinxia, for the past 7 years here in Finland. In a patch network of > several thousand suitable habitat patches there have been several > hundred local populations each year. All but a handful have gone extinct > _at least_ once during the study period (read all about it in Hanski > 1999, Metapopulation Ecology.). This, I think, underlines the importance > of habitat that is empty today. It might not be tomorrow. > > Cheers, > Niklas Yes, That is exactly what I was saying empty habitat MUST be conserved. Thanks for putting this argument across. It is VERY important. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From ciprit at snip.net Tue May 9 18:14:37 2000 From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 18:14:37 -0400 Subject: unidentified butterfly Message-ID: <39188DCC.1DC9F956@snip.net> I hope you all don't mind a casual butterfly observer asking for help identifying a species. In Philadelphia on Sun., May 7 at very approximately 2PM , I saw a little (maybe 1-11/2" wingspan) butterfly on my lawn. It was brownish and whitish (maybe some other color, too) with a kind of checkered pattern. I couldn't get a very close look at it. Every time I tried to lean near it, it went fluttering through the grass and also landed it some wet dirt (puddling?). I had just watered some of my plants. If this information helps, sage, lavender, and tulips--all in bloom-- were nearby. Also, the leaves of various perennials are up in my garden-- two types of echinacea, shasta daisy, speedwell, two types of coreopsis, New England aster, lilies, and various mums. I tried to consult my Audobon Society Field Guide, but the only butterflies that looked anything like it mostly have a range on the west coast (or at least far west of here). I would appreciate any ideas about what species I may have seen. Thanks, Christina From lepsjournal at sympatico.ca Tue May 9 21:05:24 2000 From: lepsjournal at sympatico.ca (Patrick Marceau) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 21:05:24 -0400 Subject: Wanted: C. hercules ova Message-ID: <3918B5D3.9DAF59@sympatico.ca> I'm looking for C. hercules ova (Saturniidae). Also I will have many ova to sell in June. Contact me at: lepsjournal at sympatico.ca thanks From niklas.wahlberg at helsinki.fi Wed May 10 01:28:28 2000 From: niklas.wahlberg at helsinki.fi (Niklas Wahlberg) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:28:28 +0300 Subject: Vanessa cardui, Denmark References: <391862D0.2001FAB4@skagen-natur.dk> Message-ID: <3918F37C.489D965C@helsinki.fi> Morten DD Hansen wrote: > > Hi all > > Today the first painted ladies showed up at the famous Danish migration > hotspot Skagen (northernmost part of mainland Europe). > Umm, as far as I'm aware Finland, Sweden and Norway are part of mainland Europe.... ;-) Sounds like we further north should keep an eye out for C. cardui! Cheers, Niklas -- ________________________________________________________________________ Niklas Wahlberg Metapopulation Research Group Department of Ecology and Systematics Division of Population Biology PO Box 17 (Arkadiankatu 7) 00014 University of Helsinki Finland p. +358-9-191 7378, fax +358-9-191 7301 Check out our web-site: http://www.helsinki.fi/science/metapop/ From Stelenes at aol.com Wed May 10 03:49:04 2000 From: Stelenes at aol.com (Stelenes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 03:49:04 EDT Subject: unidentified butterfly Message-ID: <43.48cc36d.264a6e70@aol.com> Christina, hmmmm...not much to go on! Did you check Pyrgus communis, the Common Checkered Skipper? This butterfly is quite small and can give the appearance of a browinish tinge in its usually grayish checkers, can be quite beautiful an overlooked...I don't know if it is around in Phila at this time, but I am near that latitude (OK that may be a lousy comparison) and there are plenty flying around...any Hollyhock in the garden? It's one of their host plants though they aren't too picky. Doug Dawn Woodland, CA in CA andIn a message dated 5/9/00 4:45:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ciprit at snip.net writes: > Subj: unidentified butterfly > Date: 5/9/00 4:45:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) > Sender: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Reply-to: ciprit at snip.net > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > > I hope you all don't mind a casual butterfly observer asking for help > identifying a species. > > In Philadelphia on Sun., May 7 at very approximately 2PM , I saw a > little (maybe 1-11/2" wingspan) butterfly on my lawn. It was brownish > and whitish (maybe some other color, too) with a kind of checkered > pattern. I couldn't get a very close look at it. Every time I tried to > lean near it, it went fluttering through the grass and also landed it > some wet dirt (puddling?). I had just watered some of my plants. If > this information helps, sage, lavender, and tulips--all in bloom-- were > nearby. Also, the leaves of various perennials are up in my garden-- > two types of echinacea, shasta daisy, speedwell, two types of coreopsis, > New England aster, lilies, and various mums. I tried to consult my > Audobon Society Field Guide, but the only butterflies that looked > anything like it mostly have a range on the west coast (or at least far > west of here). > > I would appreciate any ideas about what species I may have seen. From rbenavid at hotmail.com Wed May 10 08:35:34 2000 From: rbenavid at hotmail.com (rudy benavides) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 05:35:34 PDT Subject: Test Message-ID: <20000510123534.96368.qmail@hotmail.com> Bill Kehm wrote: Ignore \ / .-. \ / .-. { o \ W / o } `. > ! < .' { o }^{ o } `!' `!' Bill, a cyber-buckeye? Interesting thorax. Nice job! Rudy Benavides Maryland ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From jhimmel at connix.com Wed May 10 14:05:38 2000 From: jhimmel at connix.com (JH) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:05:38 -0400 Subject: moth checklist Message-ID: <001001bfbaaa$5c7150c0$bb63f6cd@pjhimmel> I think I may have seen a site posted where there is a checklist of the North American moths. Anyone out there know of it? Thanks - John ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: John Himmelman Killingworth, CT USA jhimmel at connix.com ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/booksandnature.html http://homepage.av.com/ctamphibians/ctamphibians.html Info on Trinidad & Tobago Tour, 10/00: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/SA.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000510/2b9018f9/attachment.html From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Wed May 10 02:38:03 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 01:38:03 -0500 Subject: unidentified butterfly In-Reply-To: <43.48cc36d.264a6e70@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000510013803.008297a0@mail.utexas.edu> My first thought was *Pyrgus (Scelothrix) "centaureae" wyandot* - the WYANDOT GRIZZLED SKIPPER. Do you have any of its foodplant - the yellow-flowered strawberry-like *Waldsteinia fragarioides*. This species can be locally common in midwest Maryland, northern New Jersey, and on Long Island, in spring. .......Chris Durden At 03:49 10/05/00 EDT, you wrote: >Christina, hmmmm...not much to go on! Did you check Pyrgus communis, the >Common Checkered Skipper? This butterfly is quite small and can give the >appearance of a browinish tinge in its usually grayish checkers, can be quite >beautiful an overlooked...I don't know if it is around in Phila at this time, >but I am near that latitude (OK that may be a lousy comparison) and there are >plenty flying around...any Hollyhock in the garden? It's one of their host >plants though they aren't too picky. > >Doug Dawn >Woodland, CA > >in CA andIn a message dated 5/9/00 4:45:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >ciprit at snip.net writes: > >> Subj: unidentified butterfly >> Date: 5/9/00 4:45:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) >> Sender: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu >> Reply-to: ciprit at snip.net >> To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu >> >> I hope you all don't mind a casual butterfly observer asking for help >> identifying a species. >> >> In Philadelphia on Sun., May 7 at very approximately 2PM , I saw a >> little (maybe 1-11/2" wingspan) butterfly on my lawn. It was brownish >> and whitish (maybe some other color, too) with a kind of checkered >> pattern. I couldn't get a very close look at it. Every time I tried to >> lean near it, it went fluttering through the grass and also landed it >> some wet dirt (puddling?). I had just watered some of my plants. If >> this information helps, sage, lavender, and tulips--all in bloom-- were >> nearby. Also, the leaves of various perennials are up in my garden-- >> two types of echinacea, shasta daisy, speedwell, two types of coreopsis, >> New England aster, lilies, and various mums. I tried to consult my >> Audobon Society Field Guide, but the only butterflies that looked >> anything like it mostly have a range on the west coast (or at least far >> west of here). >> >> I would appreciate any ideas about what species I may have seen. > > From dwagner at uconnvm.uconn.edu Wed May 10 17:34:33 2000 From: dwagner at uconnvm.uconn.edu (David Wagner) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:34:33 -0400 Subject: Summer Position Message-ID: <01BFBAA6.01E53800.dwagner@uconnvm.uconn.edu> Job Opening I am looking for a student to run my insect rearing facility (think caterpillar ranch) for the summer. I can offer between $3,000-$5,000 for June, July, and August, depending on background and experience. There is a possibility of starting the working in May. The immediate goal is to collect photographic images and specimen vouchers of eastern caterpillars for a field guide. I expect we will process about 300-400 collections this summer. Principal responsibilities: daily maintenance of 100-200 caterpillar rearing lots beating sheet collections of wild larvae insect macrophotography database management Helpful Prior Experience: Insect rearing and handling Shrub and tree identification Mounting and other curation techniques A car will be essential. If you are interested in the immature stages of insects, this should prove a fascinating summer. ************************* David L. Wagner Ecology & Evolutionary Biology v. 860-486-2139; f. 860-486-6364 dwagner at uconnvm.uconn.edu From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Wed May 10 19:08:59 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:08:59 -0700 Subject: competition for food, literature question Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F274B@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> I recently read a stated concern about butterfly species x competing with another species for food supply. I am a little sceptical about this view. Even when dealing with populations of one butterfly species, I do not recall running across any empirical data to suggest that food supply is any kind of real limiting factor in butterfly abundance (of course in mathematical models anything can be turned into a limiting factor). Have I missed some key literature ? Anyone out there that can share some references with data to show population limitation due to food supply (amount). Conceptually I could see such a thing in the case of a butterfly population that is dependent on one endangered host plant but darned if I can think of a documented example. Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca From dd at skagen-natur.dk Wed May 10 13:31:22 2000 From: dd at skagen-natur.dk (Morten DD Hansen) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:31:22 +0200 Subject: Vanessa cardui, Denmark References: <391862D0.2001FAB4@skagen-natur.dk>, <3918F37C.489D965C@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <39199CEA.78E584B9@skagen-natur.dk> Hi all Allright, but there is quite a long way around the Baltic... :-) No further sightings of cardui today, but we'll be looking for them. kind regards Morten DD Hansen From morphidae at earthlink.net Wed May 10 14:54:52 2000 From: morphidae at earthlink.net (Kurt Jacobs) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:54:52 GMT Subject: Scientific Name : Grammia vs. Apantesis Message-ID: <0giS4.45353$x4.1530376@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Does anyone know the most recent accepted scientific name for Grammia parthenice (Kirby, 1837) and Grammia virguncula (Kirby, 1837). Hodges checklist doesnt recognize the genus Grammia, or am I missing something? According to the checklist it appears that the Genus is now Apantesis. Possibly there is an error in the list I am unaware of? My checklist is dated 1983. Thanks in advance. Kurt Jacobs From spmr at msn.com Wed May 10 14:42:33 2000 From: spmr at msn.com (Stuart Roberts) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:42:33 +0100 Subject: Unidentified caterpillar References: <8f5urr$cr0$1@reader1.fr.uu.net> Message-ID: CGH ecrit news:8f5urr$cr0$1 at reader1.fr.uu.net... > I finded a Noctuidae caterpillar in France, in a forest near Paris > (Versailles), a few day ago. > It looks very agressive with others caterpillars (it killed one). > It eat Castanea, Acer (Quercus ?) ... > Could anyone indentify it, you can see photos to the address : > http://www.triatel.com/lepido/inconnu/Noctu01.htm > (Sorry for my english !) Ce n'est pas mal! C'est possible que c'est Cosmia trapezina LINNAEUS. Stuart Roberts > Thank you very much ! > > Christophe G?NST HORN > http://www.triatel.com/lepido > > From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Wed May 10 20:32:20 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:32:20 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Competition for food, literature question Message-ID: Norbert Kondla asked: > Anyone out there that can share some references with data to show > population limitation due to food supply (amount). This is not exactly _data_, but it might be worth checking the paper 'Temporal dissociation and population regulation in certain Hesperiine butterflies' by Harry Clench (Ecology 48:1000-1006, 1967). Clench posits temporal dissociation as a mechanism for distributing the demand on a limited supply of nectar. It should be noted, however, that temporal dissociation also exists in _Clossiana_ in the high arctic, where plants are competing for pollin- ators, rather than insects competing for nectar. Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Wed May 10 21:01:36 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:01:36 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Scientific Name : Grammia vs. Apantesis Message-ID: _Apantesis_ (1855) is an older name, not a newer one than _Grammia_ (1866). See the following paper: Ferguson, Douglas C., 1985. 'Contributions toward reclassification of the world genera of the tribe Arctiini, Part 1 -- Introduction and a revision of the _Neoarctia-Grammia_ group (Lepidoptera: Arctiidae; Arctiinae). Entomography 3:181-275. The following quotes from that paper are relevant: "Diagnosis. _Grammia_ is a mainly nearctic genus of about 30 species, two of which, _qenseli_...and _turbans_..., also occur in the Palearctic Region. It is the largest genus of Arctiidae in North America. _Grammia_, _Notarctia_, and _Apantesis_ form a group of three essentially American genera..." "Included species. I include in the genus _Grammia_ all of the species under _Apantesis_ from number 8172 (_quenseli_) to 8199 (_arge_) in the _Check List of the Lepidoptera of America North of Mexico_ (Franclemont, 1983:117) with the exception of 8181 (_proxima_), which I tgransfer to _Notarctia_. Also included are two new species which I describe below." The checklist referred to is the MONA checklist, Hodges et al. Both _parthenice_ and _virguncula_ occur within the range of numbers listed. Ken Philip fnkwp at auf.edu From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Wed May 10 17:29:00 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Wed, 10 May 00 21:29:00 GMT Subject: Checkerspot on the news References: , <3.0.1.32.20000507074817.007da580@mail.ucr.edu> Message-ID: <957994140snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> As a follow up to the matter of the Bay checkerspots I have placed a cople of extra photographs on my web site. They can be found by following the Bay Checkerspot link in The checkerspot Gellery in the Checkerspot Resources. The URL should be http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/chspot/bay.htm The photographs show the habitat of the butterfly in full bloom. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From gganweiler at sprint.ca Wed May 10 20:42:32 2000 From: gganweiler at sprint.ca (Gary Anweiler) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:42:32 GMT Subject: Scientific Name : Grammia vs. Apantesis References: <0giS4.45353$x4.1530376@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <01bfbae1$56e32d40$b8c594d1@gganweiler> Most of the members of the old genus Apantesis are now placed in Grammia - including the species you mentioned. I believe only 4 or 5 species are left in Apantesis. Gary Anweiler, Edmonton AB. Canada - where all are Grammia From ciprit at snip.net Wed May 10 21:38:47 2000 From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:38:47 -0400 Subject: to Doug Dawn--unidentified butterfly Message-ID: <391A0F27.9D09EA9D@snip.net> Doug, For me, your post only appeared on Chris Durden's reply, not as a separate post, so I wanted to make sure you see this message. Looking in my Audobon Field Guide, the photo of the Common Checkered Skipper resembled what I saw reasonably closely enough. It was fluttering too much to get a close look. The range--S. Canada to Argentina--is quite broad, to say the least, so I guess it could be in Philly. No hollyhocks in my garden. I do live in a section of the city with a lot of gardens, so maybe a neighbor has hollyhocks, though I don't know if they would be in bloom in early May here. Do you know what its larval host plants are? Thanks, Christina At 03:49 10/05/00 EDT, you wrote: >Christina, hmmmm...not much to go on! Did you check Pyrgus communis, the >Common Checkered Skipper? This butterfly is quite small and can give the >appearance of a browinish tinge in its usually grayish checkers, can be quite >beautiful an overlooked...I don't know if it is around in Phila at this time, >but I am near that latitude (OK that may be a lousy comparison) and there are >plenty flying around...any Hollyhock in the garden? It's one of their host >plants though they aren't too picky. > >Doug Dawn >Woodland, CA > From ciprit at snip.net Wed May 10 21:23:39 2000 From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:23:39 -0400 Subject: unidentified butterfly References: <43.48cc36d.264a6e70@aol.com>, <3.0.5.32.20000510013803.008297a0@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <391A0B9B.F86960B7@snip.net> "Chris J. Durden" wrote: > My first thought was *Pyrgus (Scelothrix) "centaureae" wyandot* - the > WYANDOT GRIZZLED SKIPPER. Do you have any of its foodplant - the > yellow-flowered strawberry-like *Waldsteinia fragarioides*. This species > can be locally common in midwest Maryland, northern New Jersey, and on Long > Island, in spring. > .......Chris Durden Chris, I have what I think is wild strawberry with yellow flowers on my lawn--forgot to mention that in my first post. I can't seem to find the Wyandot Grizzled Skipper in my Audobon Field Guide. > > > At 03:49 10/05/00 EDT, you wrote: > >Christina, hmmmm...not much to go on! Did you check Pyrgus communis, the > >Common Checkered Skipper? This butterfly is quite small and can give the > >appearance of a browinish tinge in its usually grayish checkers, can be > quite > >beautiful an overlooked...I don't know if it is around in Phila at this > time, > >but I am near that latitude (OK that may be a lousy comparison) and there > are > >plenty flying around...any Hollyhock in the garden? It's one of their host > >plants though they aren't too picky. > > > >Doug Dawn > >Woodland, CA > > > >in CA andIn a message dated 5/9/00 4:45:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > >ciprit at snip.net writes: > > > >> Subj: unidentified butterfly > >> Date: 5/9/00 4:45:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time > >> From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) > >> Sender: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu > >> Reply-to: ciprit at snip.net > >> To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > >> > >> I hope you all don't mind a casual butterfly observer asking for help > >> identifying a species. > >> > >> In Philadelphia on Sun., May 7 at very approximately 2PM , I saw a > >> little (maybe 1-11/2" wingspan) butterfly on my lawn. It was brownish > >> and whitish (maybe some other color, too) with a kind of checkered > >> pattern. I couldn't get a very close look at it. Every time I tried to > >> lean near it, it went fluttering through the grass and also landed it > >> some wet dirt (puddling?). I had just watered some of my plants. If > >> this information helps, sage, lavender, and tulips--all in bloom-- were > >> nearby. Also, the leaves of various perennials are up in my garden-- > >> two types of echinacea, shasta daisy, speedwell, two types of coreopsis, > >> New England aster, lilies, and various mums. I tried to consult my > >> Audobon Society Field Guide, but the only butterflies that looked > >> anything like it mostly have a range on the west coast (or at least far > >> west of here). > >> > >> I would appreciate any ideas about what species I may have seen. > > > > From cthomp1 at earthlink.net Thu May 11 00:08:18 2000 From: cthomp1 at earthlink.net (Clark) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 04:08:18 GMT Subject: new web site - supplier of South American insects Message-ID: http://www.insectnet.com/sa-insects.htm From cthomp1 at earthlink.net Thu May 11 00:06:39 2000 From: cthomp1 at earthlink.net (Clark) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 04:06:39 GMT Subject: new web site - supplier of Southern Calif. leps, livestock Message-ID: http://www.insectnet.com/worldofinsects.htm From donald.davis at utoronto.ca Thu May 11 03:42:53 2000 From: donald.davis at utoronto.ca (Donald Davis) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:42:53 GMT Subject: Toronto (Ontario) Butterflies Message-ID: <391A647C.DD2047F9@utoronto.ca> Forwarded by Don Davis, Toronto, ON Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 15:19:57 -0400 From: Carolyn King Dear Colleagues, I wish to remind you that in less than one month (end of May !), those of you who are interested in joining the MOMBASA MEETING ON MANGROVE MACROFAUNA, should send us the abstract of their speech or poster. The Museum of Zoology of the University of Florence will offer a special price for the nicest poster (a full set of our most precious T-shirts !). Hoping to see you in Mombasa, have our best wishes, on behalf or the organizing committee, Marco Vannini ========================================================= MMM - Meeting on Mangrove Macrobenthos - Mombasa 7-11 September, 2000 Dear colleagues, here is the second MMM announcement. Reaction to the first announcement was enthusiastic and we have got more than 120 answers, dealing with most of the indicated fields, from ecological modelling to crustacean taxonomy, from crab reproduction to human impact on mangrove fauna. For those of you having access to Internet, just go to the following page: http://www.specola.unifi.it/mmm/ otherwise, read the following text and answer us through e-mail: mmm at www.specola.unifi.it Best regards and hope to meet you in Mombasa! Prof. Marco Vannini Director of the Museum of Zoology of the University of Florence, Italy on behalf of the MEAM group _________________________________________________________________________ 2nd Announcement: MEETING ON MANGROVE MACROBENTHOS: Biology, Ecology and Exploitation Mombasa (Kenya), 7- 11 September, 2000 In spite of the relatively large number of meetings on Mangroves and Mangrove Ecology held over the past few years, we believe that insufficient attention has been given to the macrofauna and macrobenthic species. For the past three years, seven institutions have been working on the macrofauna of mangroves in Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique and South Africa. This collaboration was made possible by a E.U. funded programme - the Macrobenthos of Eastern African Mangroves (MEAM). The MEAM group has decided to convene a meeting specifically focusing on the benthic fauna of mangroves world-wide. The meeting will be held in Mombasa, Kenya, 7 -11 September 2000. The venue will be a beach hotel outside Mombasa (Reef Hotel), combining good conference facilities with a scenic and relaxed setting with several swimming pools, bars and a fitness centre. Mombasa has excellent air connections with all areas, either direct or via Nairobi. Participants could easily extend their stay for a beach or safari holiday in Kenya or Tanzania. Connections with Zanzibar are also very easy. The Scientific Committee includes: D. Alongi, Australia; S. Diop, UNEP; N.C. Duke, Australia; R. Hartnoll, UK; J.S.Y. Lee, Hong Kong; F. Micheli, USA; N. Muthiga, Kenya; M. Nishihira, Japan; P. Ng, Singapore; L. Omodei-Zorini, Italy; J. Paula, Portugal; A. Sasekumar, Malaysia; T.J. Smith III, USA; A.G. Untawale, India; M. Vannucci, ISME; E. Wolanski, Australia Registration Fees (in US$) ------------------------------------------------- Before May 31st Thereafter ------------------------------------------------- Participants 260 410 Students (*) 120 210 Accompanying persons 100 200 ------------------------------------------------- (*) Students should provide a supervisor's signature on the registration form. Financial Support Some financial support for DC scientists is available thanks to EU. Such support will not cover registration fees but only travel and accommodation in Kenya. Please, note that support will only cover a fraction (from 50 to 75 %) of total expenses and never all of them ! Since we will be able to only support a limited number of scientists (20-30), a selection will be performed on the basis of your request and scientific contribution. Please apply in time because decisions about financial support will be taken within the end of April. Registration fees should be sent as an international cheque to: Marco Vannini MMM Mombasa Meeting Museo Zoologico "La Specola" Via Romana, 17 50125 - Firenze, Italy or else, through your bank to: Marco Vannini MMM Mombasa Meeting Banca Toscana, Ag. 15 Piazza Pitti 27, 50121 Firenze c/c n. 353/80 Swift: TOSCIT 3 F 209 (Italian bank references: CAB 3400 ABI 02815) Please, fax a copy of payment to: M. Giuggioli, fax: ++39 055 225325 Some financial support for DC scientists is available thanks to the EU. Such support will not cover registration fees but only travel and accommodations in Kenya. Please note that such grants will be able to cover only a fraction (from 50 to 75%) of the total expenses, never all of them! Since we will be able to support only a limited number of scientists (20-30), selections will be made on the basis of the request and scientific contribution of each applicant. Applications must be received before the end of April. Cancellation Cancellations before May 31st 2000 are entitled to an 80% reimbursement of the fee. No refunds will be given after that date. Lunches and Refreshments Please note that registration also covers lunches, snacks and coffee-breaks! Hotel Reservations Reef Hotel prices (half board) just for MMM participants will be 2400 KSh (for a single room) and 4000 KSh (for a double room), to be paid at the Hotel during the meeting itself (the change rate, KSh/US$, is actually about 60-65). For more than 5 days you will get a 10% discount. For reservations, please apply Ms. Irene Ghitaiga (e-mail: ioi-ea at recoscix.org ) (KMFRI - Mombasa - Kenya) Certificate of Attendance Certificate will be included in the meeting folder. Banquet A social event is planned, probably a banquet on an Arab Dhow, slowly sailing at sunset, along Tudor creek, passing a 17th century Portuguese fortress and mangroves (fee non included within the registration fees). Excursion A social excursion is planned at Mida Creek, with the possibility of visiting different mangrove sites and Gedi as well, an abandoned ancient Arab town within baobab and fig tree forest. Scientific Contribution Papers Both oral communications and posters will be accepted. Oral papers should not exceed 15 min (plus 5 min for the discussion). More details will be included in the third announcement together with the official programme. Posters should not exceed 1.5 m in height and 1 m in width. Both slide projection and overhead projection will be available. Abstract Volume You will find the abstract volume in the meeting folder. To do that we obviously need to receive your abstracts by May 31st, 2000. Use the module at the end of the registration form or e-mail attached files only, please avoid sending disks. Plain e-mail text is also welcome. The abstract should not exceed 800-1000 words including the title, name(s) of the author(s), Institution(s) and addresses. We can deal with most word processor programs, but Microsoft Word files would be preferable. Publication Contacts are underway with "Mangrove and Salt Marshes", with the aim of giving those who wish to publish their work the opportunity of doing so in a formal journal which might then produce a special issue about the MMM meeting. The contributors will probably be asked to pay a small sum the amount of which will be communicated with the final announcement and will depend on the financial support that we obtain for the meeting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- REGISTRATION FORM Please send before May 31th, 2000! Full Name: _________________________________________ Position: __________________________________________ Address: ___________________________________________ Fax: _______________________________________________ E-mail: ____________________________________________ I will register by: international cheque ___ directly through bank account ___ Field of interest - please check one or more subjects: Aquaculture Behaviour Ecology Ecolological Modelling Exploitation General Biology Genetics Human Impact Reproduction Systematics Annelids Bivalves Gastropods Cephalopods Barnacles Prawns Mud Lobsters Hermit Crabs Crabs Other Crustaceans Insects Echinoderms Mudskippers Other Fishes Birds Mammals Reptiles OTHERS (specify) ___________________________________ I WISH TO PRESENT: A PAPER ___ A POSTER ___ TITLE ________________________________________________ ________________________________________________ ________________________________________________ ********************************************************* International Meeting on Mangrove Macrobenthos (MMM) Prof. Marco Vannini director of the Museum of Zoology "La Specola" of the University of Florence via Romana 17 - 50125 Firenze Italy tel. : +39 55 2288251/9 fax : +39 55 225325 e-mail: mmm at www.specola.unifi.it http://www.specola.unifi.it/MMM/ ******************************************************** From ewilliam at hamilton.edu Thu May 11 08:18:38 2000 From: ewilliam at hamilton.edu (Ernest Williams) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:18:38 -0400 Subject: Competition for food, literature question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Clench's interpretation has been challenged because the skipper community he described did not exist as a long-time interactive community. See Shuey 1986(87), J. Res. Lepid. 25(3):202-206. Since John is active on this list, perhaps he might like to comment further. Ernest Williams > Norbert Kondla asked: > > >> Anyone out there that can share some references with data to show >> population limitation due to food supply (amount). > > This is not exactly _data_, but it might be worth checking the paper >'Temporal dissociation and population regulation in certain Hesperiine >butterflies' by Harry Clench (Ecology 48:1000-1006, 1967). Clench posits >temporal dissociation as a mechanism for distributing the demand on a >limited supply of nectar. > > It should be noted, however, that temporal dissociation also exists >in _Clossiana_ in the high arctic, where plants are competing for pollin- >ators, rather than insects competing for nectar. > > Ken Philip >fnkwp at uaf.edu From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu May 11 08:22:10 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:22:10 -0400 Subject: Appalachian Grizzled Skipper not in NJ In-Reply-To: "Chris J. Durden" "Re: unidentified butterfly" (May 10, 1:38am) References: <3.0.5.32.20000510013803.008297a0@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <1000511082213.ZM3606@Gochfeld> The Appalachian Grizzled Skipper (Pyrgus wyandot) has not been recorded in NJ despite lots of searching, for many many years. Dale Schweitzer and Art Shapiro provided evidence that wyandot is specifically distinct from centaurae (a primarily Old World butterfly with a race freija in Canada. Even in the days of Beutenmuller (1893) this was considered "exceedingly rare". It occurred in trap rock glades in northern and northwestern New Jersey, at least through the 1930's (Rutgers specimens 1937 1938), but Comstock (1940) already considered it rare. I think it was one of the species that disappeared during the heavy pesticide use era of mosquito control of the late 1940's early 1950's (after which there are no records). But I understand the species continues to disappear over a much wider area of the northeast (perhaps accelerated by anti-Gypsy Moth campaigns), or something else. In addition to (or perhaps in preference to the strawberry (Fragaria virginiana), Schweitzer lists the Cinquefoil (Potentilla canadensis) as its local host. Mike Gochfeld From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu May 11 08:56:27 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:56:27 -0400 Subject: to Doug Dawn--unidentified butterfly In-Reply-To: ciprit "to Doug Dawn--unidentified butterfly" (May 10, 9:38pm) References: <391A0F27.9D09EA9D@snip.net> Message-ID: <1000511085630.ZM3606@Gochfeld> Common Checkered Skipper could certainly be in the Philadelphia area at this time of year (although some say that it shouldn't arrive until July because it is not supposed to be resident this far north). It's larval hosts include a variety of species in the Malvaceae including Common Mallow, Hollyhock, etc. John Yrizarry reported that it can use Velvetleaf (Abutilon theophrasi) in southern NY. In New Brunswick NJ, We have a persistent colony of Checkered Skipper in an area where NONE of these reported hosts have been identified. The colony has persisted for six years. MIKE GOCHFELD From jculter at mote.org Thu May 11 08:26:36 2000 From: jculter at mote.org (Jim Culter) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:26:36 -0400 Subject: Benthic Post-doctoral position References: <01JP9RGRS1D60001AA@unifi.it> Message-ID: <391AA6FB.C27D1A7C@mote.org> Please distribute the following information freely. Postdoctoral Fellowship - Benthic Ecology Mote Marine Laboratory in collaboration with the National Geographic Society's Sustainable Seas Expeditions seeks applications for one postdoctoral fellowship. The associate will examine interrelationships of Gulf waters on benthic communities of the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary and the southwest shelf such as: coral reefs, live-bottom habitat, algal beds, and/or seagrasses or submarine springs or sinks. The position will be interactive with Mote scientists in Sarasota and the Florida Keys. Successful applicants will have backgrounds in community analysis, benthic/pelagic coupling, invertebrate taxonomy, and or biogeography. Candidate must have a doctoral degree (Ph.D.), in the marine sciences/biological oceanography, be fluent in English, immediately eligible for employment in the U.S., with a broad background related to the linkage of physiochemical parameters and the benthos. The Deadline for Applications is: June 30, 2000. Reviews will be completed by July 31, 2000 with anticipated starting date of September 1, 2000. Appointments will be for two years with a first year performance review. Initial application should include : 1) Curriculum vitae containing education and training, research experience, awards, and a list of publications; 2) a statement describing research interests and a general approach to the issue stated above, 3) reprints of published research, 4) three professional references. For additional Information: Call or write Mote Marine Laboratory or visit, www.mote.org web site to request application materials. Send response to: Jim Culter Mote Marine Laboratory 1600 Ken Thompson Parkway Sarasota, Florida 34236 USA (941) 388-4441 (941) 388-4312 fax -- Jim Culter jculter at mote.org Staff Scientist, Benthic Ecology Program Mote Marine Laboratory 1600 Ken Thompson Parkway Sarasota, FL 34236 (941) 388-4441 x335 From jshuey at tnc.org Thu May 11 09:17:57 2000 From: jshuey at tnc.org (John Shuey) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:17:57 -0500 Subject: unidentified butterfly References: Message-ID: <391AB304.EABF1E51@tnc.org> Piecing clues together to say that this UFO is not Pyrgus centaurea wyandot: > "Chris J. Durden" wrote: > > > My first thought was *Pyrgus (Scelothrix) "centaureae" wyandot* - the > > WYANDOT GRIZZLED SKIPPER. Do you have any of its foodplant - the > > yellow-flowered strawberry-like *Waldsteinia fragarioides*. This species > > can be locally common in midwest Maryland, northern New Jersey, and on Long > > Island, in spring. > > .......Chris Durden > > Chris, > I have what I think is wild strawberry with yellow flowers on my lawn--forgot to > mention that in my first post. I can't seem to find the Wyandot Grizzled > Skipper in my Audobon Field Guide. > > Clue 1 - most eastern populations (with the exception of Michigan) are not associated with wild strawberry - but the similar appearing Dwarf Cinquefoil , Potentilla canadensis. Clue 2. Pyrgus wyandot is very rare in the east, and is not a yard butterfly (Unless your yard is surrounded by natural barrens habitats maybe). > > > >> In Philadelphia on Sun., May 7 at very approximately 2PM , I saw a > > >> little (maybe 1-11/2" wingspan) butterfly on my lawn. It was brownish > > >> and whitish (maybe some other color, too) with a kind of checkered > > >> pattern. I couldn't get a very close look at it. Every time I tried to > > >> lean near it, it went fluttering through the grass and also landed it > > >> some wet dirt (puddling?). I had just watered some of my plants. Clue 3 - and this is a big one - no one who has ever seen P. wyandot in flight would say that it "fluttered through the grass". Wyandot in flight is a complete blur, wings are almost invisible, and it move so fast that its hard to follow visually for more than a few seconds. -- John Shuey From butrfly at epix.net Thu May 11 12:54:00 2000 From: butrfly at epix.net (R. Mikula) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:54:00 -0400 Subject: Egg pictures Message-ID: <391AE5A8.C100BBCC@epix.net> Does anyone know if there is a site the has pictures or drawings of the eggs and chyrsalises for the following species. Or does anyone have slides of these butterflies. Thank You Rick Mikula Two-Tailed Swallowtail Three-Tailed Swallowtail Great Purple Hairstreak Meadow Fritillary Red-Spotted Purple Orange Sulphur Checkered Skipper Malachite Clouded Sulphur California Dogface Harvester Gray Hairstreak Great Spangled Fritillary Checkered White Cloudless Sulphur Eastern Tailed-Blue Spring Azure American Snout Variegated Fritillary American Lady Red Admiral Common Buckeye Silver-Spotted Skipper Long-Tailed Skipper From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Thu May 11 00:56:15 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:56:15 -0500 Subject: unidentified butterfly In-Reply-To: <391AB304.EABF1E51@tnc.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000510235615.00900ca0@mail.utexas.edu> At 08:17 11/05/00 -0500, you wrote: > > >Piecing clues together to say that this UFO is not Pyrgus centaurea wyandot: > >Clue 1 - most eastern populations (with the exception of Michigan) are not >associated with wild strawberry - but the similar appearing Dwarf Cinquefoil , >Potentilla canadensis. - - - *P. wyandot* does use the yellow flowered *Waldsteinia fragarioides* as larval food at Green Ridge MD. - - -(Chris) > >Clue 2. Pyrgus wyandot is very rare in the east, and is not a yard butterfly >(Unless your yard is surrounded by natural barrens habitats maybe). - - - Apparently this yard had something that looks like *Waldsteinia f.* - - -(Chris) > >> >> > >> In Philadelphia on Sun., May 7 at very approximately 2PM , I saw a >> > >> little (maybe 1-11/2" wingspan) butterfly on my lawn. It was brownish >> > >> and whitish (maybe some other color, too) with a kind of checkered >> > >> pattern. I couldn't get a very close look at it. - - - *P. wyandot* has more of a brown/white/yellow appearance than does *S. communis* with its black/blue-white/yellow appearance. - - -(Chris) Every time I tried to >> > >> lean near it, it went fluttering through the grass - - - *P. wyandot* does flutter through the grass while testing the *Waldsteinia* for an oviposition site. - - -(Chris) and also landed it >> > >> some wet dirt (puddling?). I had just watered some of my plants. > >Clue 3 - and this is a big one - no one who has ever seen P. wyandot in flight would >say that it "fluttered through the grass". Wyandot in flight is a complete blur, >wings are almost invisible, and it move so fast that its hard to follow visually for >more than a few seconds. > > > >-- >John Shuey > - - - Seems very early in the year for *S. communis* in the Northeast, but is just right for *P. wyandot*. Let us hope there can be another sighting! - - -(Chris) > From jmason at ink.org Thu May 11 14:39:50 2000 From: jmason at ink.org (Jim Mason) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:39:50 -0500 Subject: moths & light Message-ID: <006701bfbb78$52df51a0$c49ec9a5@wp.state.ks.us> I would like to hear what folks have to say about this: What is the current best guess why moths are attracted to light? Or is it only some moths and not all? Or is it common to all insects? Which begs the original question in a more encompassing form - Why are insects attracted to light? Or is it only some insects and not all? Or is it some light (wavelengths) and not all? Or - - - ? Jim Mason, Naturalist jmason at ink.org (316) 683-5499 x103 Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th St. N. Wichita, KS 67220-2200 http://www.gpnc.org From morphidae at earthlink.net Thu May 11 13:47:40 2000 From: morphidae at earthlink.net (Kurt Jacobs) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:47:40 GMT Subject: Scientific Name : Grammia vs. Apantesis References: Message-ID: <0nCS4.51448$g4.1421349@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Thanks for the clarification. I also know many Eulotype were switched to Psadypha. The only reason that I know this is because of Don Lafontaines note following the identification of an image of rolandi. Is there an errata or supplement to the Checklist of Lepidoptera of America North of Mexico (Hodges et al., 1983)? I realize that the MONA fascicles will detail any changes, but the quick checklist guide is very handy for verification of spellings, authors, dates, and classification. Being that it is nearly 20 years old and much new work has emerged, possibly a list of changes and additions is available?? Kurt Jacobs "Kenelm Philip" wrote in message news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0005101701110.14790-100000 at aurora.uaf.edu... > > _Apantesis_ (1855) is an older name, not a newer one than _Grammia_ > (1866). See the following paper: > > Ferguson, Douglas C., 1985. 'Contributions toward reclassification of the > world genera of the tribe Arctiini, Part 1 -- Introduction and a revision > of the _Neoarctia-Grammia_ group (Lepidoptera: Arctiidae; Arctiinae). > Entomography 3:181-275. > > The following quotes from that paper are relevant: > > "Diagnosis. _Grammia_ is a mainly nearctic genus of about 30 species, > two of which, _qenseli_...and _turbans_..., also occur in the Palearctic > Region. It is the largest genus of Arctiidae in North America. _Grammia_, > _Notarctia_, and _Apantesis_ form a group of three essentially American > genera..." > > "Included species. I include in the genus _Grammia_ all of the species > under _Apantesis_ from number 8172 (_quenseli_) to 8199 (_arge_) in the > _Check List of the Lepidoptera of America North of Mexico_ (Franclemont, > 1983:117) with the exception of 8181 (_proxima_), which I tgransfer to > _Notarctia_. Also included are two new species which I describe below." > > The checklist referred to is the MONA checklist, Hodges et al. Both > _parthenice_ and _virguncula_ occur within the range of numbers listed. > > Ken Philip > fnkwp at auf.edu > > From pbedell at vcu.org Thu May 11 14:54:33 2000 From: pbedell at vcu.org (Paul Bedell) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:54:33 -0400 Subject: moths & light References: <006701bfbb78$52df51a0$c49ec9a5@wp.state.ks.us> Message-ID: <391B01E8.68CBFC33@vcu.org> > Regarding insects attracted to lights, last night I had a Red-banded Hairstreak (Calycopis cecrops) show up at my back porch light! While taking out the garbage and doing other late chores about an hour and a half after sunset ( I always like to look at the moths attracted to the back porch light). I observed one of these locally common butterflies. It wasn't there at 10:00 p.m., but showed up about 10:15. It was gone by 10:30. Diurnal insects sometimes move at night it seems. Last year I had the dragonfly Eastern Amberwing (Perithemis tenera) also show up at my porch light. Paul Bedell, Richmond,VA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000511/f8ade8d6/attachment.html From jshuey at tnc.org Thu May 11 14:22:19 2000 From: jshuey at tnc.org (John Shuey) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:22:19 -0500 Subject: Competition for food, literature question References: Message-ID: <391AFA5A.616183AF@tnc.org> Way back when, when I was a graduate student, I became intrigued by the issue of competition, ghosts of competition past, and experimentally testing the idea. I never liked Clench's paper much, and was simply appalled at how often it got cited as a "proof of competition" and its role in niche partitioning. Clench simply noticed that hesperiinae flight periods were staggered through the season, and inferred that this staggered emergence was the result of competition for nectar resources, without even mentioning host phenology, nutritional ecology or the weedy nature of the skipper species themselves. Hence, when Ehrlich (Biology of Butterflies 1984 pg 39) used the paper favorably to support the concept, I couldn't take it any longer. Nineteen years is a long time to wait to refute a paper, but I was only nine year old when Clench published his. I got to it as fast as I could. As an epilogue, I designed a pretty bad study myself to look at the issue. I used a "guild" of sedge feeding butterflies (Euphyes dion, Euphyes conspicua, Poanes viator and Poanes massasoit) that all fly at the same time in the same habitat. Although I still don't know what it means, here is what I found out. 1: Flower visitation is not random. Certain rare flowers were preferentially visited relative to more common flowers 2: Although there was considerable overlap in the flowers used, each skipper species differed significantly from the other species in the proportions (or ratios) of flower species they preferred. 3: During the two years (at a single site) that I conducted the study, the differences between species were consistent, but within species, the pattern was the same in both years. I'm still pondering all this (16 years after the data were collected), but it seems to me that this could be evidence that adult resource use (flower visitation preferences), has an underlying genetic basis that could indeed be shaped by interspecific competition (among other things). Needs more data / needs more thought. John ewilliam at hamilton.edu wrote: > Clench's interpretation has been challenged because the skipper community > he described did not exist as a long-time interactive community. See Shuey > 1986(87), J. Res. Lepid. 25(3):202-206. Since John is active on this list, > perhaps he might like to comment further. > > Ernest Williams > > > Norbert Kondla asked: > > > > > >> Anyone out there that can share some references with data to show > >> population limitation due to food supply (amount). > > > > This is not exactly _data_, but it might be worth checking the paper > >'Temporal dissociation and population regulation in certain Hesperiine > >butterflies' by Harry Clench (Ecology 48:1000-1006, 1967). Clench posits > >temporal dissociation as a mechanism for distributing the demand on a > >limited supply of nectar. > > > > It should be noted, however, that temporal dissociation also exists > >in _Clossiana_ in the high arctic, where plants are competing for pollin- > >ators, rather than insects competing for nectar. > > > > Ken Philip > >fnkwp at uaf.edu -- John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy phone: 317-923-7547 fax: 317-923-7582 email: Jshuey at tnc.org From priamus at my-deja.com Thu May 11 15:30:56 2000 From: priamus at my-deja.com (priamus at my-deja.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:30:56 GMT Subject: Pain & Insects ? Message-ID: <8ff1ph$n5e$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Does anyone know of any other research being carried out in this field? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000114832908976&rtmo=aqKq9duJ&atmo=9999 9999&pg=/et/00/5/11/nfly11.html Cheers, Chris Hocking Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu May 11 17:00:32 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:00:32 -0400 Subject: unidentified butterfly References: <391AB304.EABF1E51@tnc.org> Message-ID: <391B1F70.2B1F7777@eohsi.rutgers.edu> I agree with the way Chris and John have provided clues that the Philadelphia Mystery Story does not star wyandot. However, I had the same impression about Checkered Skipper that John voiced about Grizzled Skipper, namely that it is a tiny grayish, mothlike blur, and even when I know that it is what I am looking for where I am looking for it, it has to perch before I can identify it. Therefore. Moreover, at least in NJ, I would never have thought of P.communis as being brownish. It is grayish to blu-ish. So my suggestion still is a Crescent---after all one of the commonest yard butterflies at this season. MIKE GOCHFELD =========================================================== John Shuey wrote: > > Piecing clues together to say that this UFO is not Pyrgus centaurea wyandot: > > > "Chris J. Durden" wrote: > > > > > My first thought was *Pyrgus (Scelothrix) "centaureae" wyandot* - the > > > WYANDOT GRIZZLED SKIPPER. Do you have any of its foodplant - the > > > yellow-flowered strawberry-like *Waldsteinia fragarioides*. This species > > > can be locally common in midwest Maryland, northern New Jersey, and on Long > > > Island, in spring. > > > .......Chris Durden > > > > Chris, > > I have what I think is wild strawberry with yellow flowers on my lawn--forgot to > > mention that in my first post. I can't seem to find the Wyandot Grizzled > > Skipper in my Audobon Field Guide. > > > > > > Clue 1 - most eastern populations (with the exception of Michigan) are not > associated with wild strawberry - but the similar appearing Dwarf Cinquefoil , > Potentilla canadensis. > > Clue 2. Pyrgus wyandot is very rare in the east, and is not a yard butterfly > (Unless your yard is surrounded by natural barrens habitats maybe). > > > > > > >> In Philadelphia on Sun., May 7 at very approximately 2PM , I saw a > > > >> little (maybe 1-11/2" wingspan) butterfly on my lawn. It was brownish > > > >> and whitish (maybe some other color, too) with a kind of checkered > > > >> pattern. I couldn't get a very close look at it. Every time I tried to > > > >> lean near it, it went fluttering through the grass and also landed it > > > >> some wet dirt (puddling?). I had just watered some of my plants. > > Clue 3 - and this is a big one - no one who has ever seen P. wyandot in flight would > say that it "fluttered through the grass". Wyandot in flight is a complete blur, > wings are almost invisible, and it move so fast that its hard to follow visually for > more than a few seconds. > > -- > John Shuey From kruse at nature.Berkeley.EDU Thu May 11 17:12:42 2000 From: kruse at nature.Berkeley.EDU (James J. Kruse) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Hodges checklist update In-Reply-To: <0nCS4.51448$g4.1421349@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 May 2000, Kurt Jacobs wrote: > Is there an errata or supplement to the Checklist of Lepidoptera of America > North of Mexico (Hodges et al., 1983)? I realize that the MONA fascicles The MONA checklist for Tortricidae is updated at: http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/sperlinglab/PEET/cklistadd.html Regards, Jim Kruse University of California at Berkeley Dept. of Environ Sci, Policy and Mgmt. Div. of Insect Biology 201 Wellman Hall Berkeley, California, 94720-3112 Voice: (510) 642-7410 Fax: (510) 642-7428 http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/sperlinglab/kruse.html From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Wed May 10 23:19:59 2000 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:19:59 -0700 Subject: competition for food, literature question Message-ID: <004601bfbb96$2c0b74a0$6fdcc2cf@cguppy> The only two examples I can think of are: (1) pest outbreaks that completely defoliate the foodplants (forest tent caterpillars, gypsy moth); (2) Pierids that feed on Cruciferae (wild mustards), such as those showing the "red egg syndrome" of Shapiro. In California females avoid laying eggs on plants that already have red eggs (Pierid eggs over 24 hours old) on them. Larger larvae cannabilize smaller larvae, which MAY in turn be the result of competition for food (wild mustard plants are frequently too small for a single larva to mature on, much less many larvae). Alternatively the larger larvae may just grow better with a good protein meal. In general though there seems to be very little competition for food, at least in temperate areas. Larvae are spread too thin. The avoidance of plants with red eggs on them does not appear to be the case for the same species of Pierids in British Columbia as were studied in California. I am not aware of any documented examples of population size being limited by food supply. However my general impression is that for an area of equal size, on average areas with more foodplants have more adult butterflies. This may not be the result of competition for food however. -----Original Message----- From: Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX To: 'lepsl' Date: May 10, 2000 4:21 PM Subject: competition for food, literature question >I recently read a stated concern about butterfly species x competing with >another species for food supply. I am a little sceptical about this view. >Even when dealing with populations of one butterfly species, I do not recall >running across any empirical data to suggest that food supply is any kind of >real limiting factor in butterfly abundance (of course in mathematical >models anything can be turned into a limiting factor). Have I missed some >key literature ? Anyone out there that can share some references with data >to show population limitation due to food supply (amount). Conceptually I >could see such a thing in the case of a butterfly population that is >dependent on one endangered host plant but darned if I can think of a >documented example. Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. >Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment >845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 >Phone 250-365-8610 >Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca >http://www.env.gov.bc.ca > > From jhimmel at connix.com Thu May 11 19:42:09 2000 From: jhimmel at connix.com (JH) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:42:09 -0400 Subject: moths & light Message-ID: <002c01bfbba2$8755b3a0$bb63f6cd@pjhimmel> There must be something going on with these hairstreaks - I've had Banded, Striped, and last year, a White M show up to the lights. I'm sure other butterfly groups have been represented, but not in my yard! John Himmelman ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: John Himmelman Killingworth, CT USA jhimmel at connix.com ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/booksandnature.html http://homepage.av.com/ctamphibians/ctamphibians.html Info on Trinidad & Tobago Tour, 10/00: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/SA.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -----Original Message----- From: Paul Bedell To: jmason at ink.org ; Lepidoptera listserve Date: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:05 PM Subject: Re: moths & light Regarding insects attracted to lights, last night I had a Red-banded Hairstreak (Calycopis cecrops) show up at my back porch light! While taking out the garbage and doing other late chores about an hour and a half after sunset ( I always like to look at the moths attracted to the back porch light). I observed one of these locally common butterflies. It wasn't there at 10:00 p.m., but showed up about 10:15. It was gone by 10:30. Diurnal insects sometimes move at night it seems. Last year I had the dragonfly Eastern Amberwing (Perithemis tenera) also show up at my porch light. Paul Bedell, Richmond,VA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000511/d39e11dd/attachment.html From priamus at my-deja.com Thu May 11 19:18:14 2000 From: priamus at my-deja.com (priamus at my-deja.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:18:14 GMT Subject: BAD LINK - Re: Pain & Insects ? References: <8ff1ph$n5e$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID: <8fff36$6ni$1@nnrp1.deja.com> In article <8ff1ph$n5e$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, priamus at my-deja.com wrote: > Does anyone know of any other research being carried out in this field? > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000114832908976&rtmo=aqKq9duJ&atmo=9999 > 9999&pg=/et/00/5/11/nfly11.html > > Cheers, > > Chris Hocking Sorry about the bad Link. Here's the article:- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ ISSUE 1812 Thursday 11 May 2000 Cockroach capable of feeling pain, says study By Roger Highfield, Science Editor THE discovery that slugs, snails and flies apparently feel pain could change forever the way human beings treat the rest of the animal kingdom, it was claimed yesterday. Studies also found that cockroaches have the capacity to suffer, cows can react emotionally and sheep can distinguish one person from another, therefore possessing the concept of what it means to be an individual. Dr Stephen Wickens, of the Universities Federation for Animal Welfare charity (UFAW), said society often looked to scientists to tell them where to draw a line in their concern for animals, but that line was becoming increasingly blurred. At a symposium in London today, organised by UFAW, scientists will debate whether and how animals feel, a concept central to arguments about animal welfare and the range of species that deserved special protection. Dr Wickens said: "The idea is to debate where you can draw the line on consciousness, if at all. People who think insects don't feel any pain may be wrong. Perhaps people should think twice before reaching for the fly spray." The meeting at the Zoological Society will be told by Dr Chris Sherwin, of the University of Bristol, that the criterion used to assess the mental state of vertebrates, whether dogs, cats or chimpanzees, often produced similar results among insects. Dr Sherwin said: "If a chimp pulls its hand away after an electric shock, we say she presumably must have felt an analogous subjective experience to what we call pain. But cockroaches, slugs and snails - which are not protected by legislation - also reacted in the same way, while tests on flies showed they could associate a smell with receiving an electric shock. "If it is a chimp we say it feels pain, if a fly we don't. Why? Slugs will perform in some of these tests the same way as dogs, chimps and cats. They show far more complex patterns of behaviour than we had thought. And if they do feel pain, isn't that a welfare issue?" Dr Keith Kendrick, of the Babraham Institute, Cambridge, will report to the meeting that while sheep can not be said to be conscious in a human manner, "the way they recognise faces and the way they process face images is very similar to the way we do it". Dr Kendrick, who admitted that he occasionally ate lamb despite his findings, said: "Even animals like sheep are doing things as far as the brain is concerned that are so similar to us it does imply that they are capable of some level of consciousness." Another team, led by Prof Don Broom, of the University of Cambridge, will report studies of young cattle which concluded "that cattle can react emotionally". Dr Wickens said animal welfare policies were dependent upon the extent to which people believed animals were capable of conscious states such as pain, anxiety and boredom. He hoped the discussion of the latest scientific discoveries in this field would help resolve the different ways in which cultures around the world treated animals. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From ciprit at snip.net Thu May 11 20:11:17 2000 From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:11:17 -0400 Subject: unidentified butterfly References: , <391AB304.EABF1E51@tnc.org>, <391B1F70.2B1F7777@eohsi.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: <391B4C24.5097F0AA@snip.net> Based on appearance alone (based on my field guide), I would have to agree with Common Checkered Skipper or Grizzled Skipper. Keeping in mind I could not get a close look, I would say the pic. of the Grizzled Skipper is closer. Definitely NOT the Pearly Crescentspot. Could either of the other species have landed on grass for water?--as I mentioned I had just watered my lawn. (Sorry if that is a silly question, I'm just a butterfly observer, not a lepidopterist.) Thanks to all, Christina > I agree with the way Chris and John have provided clues that the > Philadelphia Mystery Story does not star wyandot. However, I had the > same impression about Checkered Skipper that John voiced about Grizzled > Skipper, namely that it is a tiny grayish, mothlike blur, and even when > I know that it is what I am looking for where I am looking for it, it > has to perch before I can identify it. Therefore. Moreover, at least > in NJ, I would never have thought of P.communis as being brownish. It > is grayish to blu-ish. So my suggestion still is a Crescent---after all > one of the commonest yard butterflies at this season. > > MIKE GOCHFELD > =========================================================== > John Shuey wrote: > > > > Piecing clues together to say that this UFO is not Pyrgus centaurea wyandot: > > > > > "Chris J. Durden" wrote: > > > > > > > My first thought was *Pyrgus (Scelothrix) "centaureae" wyandot* - the > > > > WYANDOT GRIZZLED SKIPPER. Do you have any of its foodplant - the > > > > yellow-flowered strawberry-like *Waldsteinia fragarioides*. This species > > > > can be locally common in midwest Maryland, northern New Jersey, and on Long > > > > Island, in spring. > > > > .......Chris Durden > > > > > > Chris, > > > I have what I think is wild strawberry with yellow flowers on my lawn--forgot to > > > mention that in my first post. I can't seem to find the Wyandot Grizzled > > > Skipper in my Audobon Field Guide. > > > > > > > > > > Clue 1 - most eastern populations (with the exception of Michigan) are not > > associated with wild strawberry - but the similar appearing Dwarf Cinquefoil , > > Potentilla canadensis. > > > > Clue 2. Pyrgus wyandot is very rare in the east, and is not a yard butterfly > > (Unless your yard is surrounded by natural barrens habitats maybe). > > > > > > > > > >> In Philadelphia on Sun., May 7 at very approximately 2PM , I saw a > > > > >> little (maybe 1-11/2" wingspan) butterfly on my lawn. It was brownish > > > > >> and whitish (maybe some other color, too) with a kind of checkered > > > > >> pattern. I couldn't get a very close look at it. Every time I tried to > > > > >> lean near it, it went fluttering through the grass and also landed it > > > > >> some wet dirt (puddling?). I had just watered some of my plants. > > > > Clue 3 - and this is a big one - no one who has ever seen P. wyandot in flight would > > say that it "fluttered through the grass". Wyandot in flight is a complete blur, > > wings are almost invisible, and it move so fast that its hard to follow visually for > > more than a few seconds. > > > > -- > > John Shuey From JerryMcW at aol.com Thu May 11 21:04:18 2000 From: JerryMcW at aol.com (JerryMcW at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:04:18 EDT Subject: p. communis Message-ID: P. communis flys as early as May in northwestern, Pennsylvania. I observed a fresh male P. communis in Fairview, Pennyslvania last Monday, May 8. This is about as early as I have recorded this species in Erie County. Jerry McWilliams Erie, Erie County, Pa. From birdcr at concentric.net Thu May 11 21:14:55 2000 From: birdcr at concentric.net (Randy Emmitt) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:14:55 -0400 Subject: Appalachian Grizzled Skipper in NC References: <3.0.5.32.20000510013803.008297a0@mail.utexas.edu> <1000511082213.ZM3606@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <391B5B0F.8DC3F4C@concentric.net> Mike, Today I found the second ever sighting or collection of a Grizzled Skipper presumably a Appalachian Grizzled Skipper (Pyrgus wyandot) in the Mountains of North Carolina. I was in a meadow at it`s edge and it landed in front of me. I studied it closely and grabbed my Glassberg`s to confirm it. I studied Glassbergs then again the skipper and got all the field marks. It was very worn on the hindwing and matched perfectly. I put away my Glassberg`s and looked and it was gone. I searched for nearly an hour to no avail. I had my camera in hand, but I was alone so I wanted to confirm it before I missed a photo and possibly the skipper ID. Actually the Grizzled Skipper was considered to be absent. The field it was in was full of Cinquefoil (Potentilla canadensis) and strawberry (Fragaria virginiana) the grizzled Skippers host plants and 150+ American Coppers(new state high count). I`ll be adding new photos of West Virginia White, American Copper, Silvery Blue, Creole Pearly-eye, Dreamy Duskywing, Sleepy Duskywing and Whirlabout to my Butterflies Found in North Carolina site tommorrow and/ or saturday. Randy Emmitt Rougemont, NC Butterflies Found in North Carolina Online! http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html Michael Gochfeld wrote: > The Appalachian Grizzled Skipper (Pyrgus wyandot) has not been recorded > in NJ despite lots of searching, for many many years. Dale Schweitzer > and Art Shapiro provided evidence that wyandot is specifically distinct > from centaurae (a primarily Old World butterfly with a race freija in > Canada. > > Even in the days of Beutenmuller (1893) this was considered "exceedingly > rare". It occurred in trap rock glades in northern and northwestern New > Jersey, at least through the 1930's (Rutgers specimens 1937 1938), but > Comstock (1940) already considered it rare. I think it was one of the > species that disappeared during the heavy pesticide use era of mosquito > control of the late 1940's early 1950's (after which there are no > records). But I understand the species continues to disappear over a > much wider area of the northeast (perhaps accelerated by anti-Gypsy Moth > campaigns), or something else. > > In addition to (or perhaps in preference to the strawberry (Fragaria > virginiana), Schweitzer lists the Cinquefoil (Potentilla canadensis) as > its local host. > > Mike Gochfeld From Leptraps at aol.com Thu May 11 23:15:50 2000 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:15:50 EDT Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. Message-ID: I must add my two cents to the Pyrgus centaureae wyandot issue. When I lived in Virginia in the late 70's and early 80's, Pyrgus centaureae wyandot was not a hard bug to find. I collected Pyrgus centaureae wyandot in the following counties in Virginia: Albemarle, Augusta, Bath, Bedford, Bland, Carroll, Craig, Flyod, Giles, Grayson, Highland, Montgomery, Pulaski, Rockbridge, Smyth, Tazewell, Wyth and Wise. In North Carolina: Cherokee, Haywood, Jackson, Surry, Wilkes, and Yancey. I have also collected Pyrgus centaureae wyandot in Michigan, Ohio, Tennessee, and West Virginia. I have collected over a great deal of the eastern United States and have NEVER found it near civilization. Always in remote and wild places. RE: Butterflies at UV light. I have operated light traps for over twenty years and have collected 41 species of butterflies and skippers in light traps. I collected over 200 Asterocampa clyton in one light trap along the Rio Grand near Fronton, Texas in 1996. Cheers, Leroy C. Koehn 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 Hm: 561-966-1655 Cell: 561-301-4215 E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Fri May 12 06:09:22 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 06:09:22 -0400 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. In-Reply-To: Leptraps@aol.com "RE: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot." (May 11, 11:15pm) References: Message-ID: <1000512060925.ZM3574@Gochfeld> It looks like an interesting (if fortuitous) thread. Leroy's Koehn's report of the apparent commonness (or at least the 'not-so-rareness') of Wyandot over a large area as recently as the early 1980's, would certainly be an interesting baseline for comparison with more recent observers in the same areas (none of which I know personally). The very few reports I could find for NJ indicate that here to it was not a "domestic" creature, although remote areas here are often not that far from residential areas. Mike Gochfeld From birdcr at concentric.net Fri May 12 08:03:03 2000 From: birdcr at concentric.net (Randy Emmitt) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:03:03 -0400 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. References: Message-ID: <391BF2F7.4B46740D@concentric.net> Ok, Can of worms here....... Why would you want to collect 24+ specimens of a rare taxon that is a Federal Species of Concern? Now we all know why they are expirated here in NC, Leroy C. Koehn has collected them all. Leroy buy yourself a camera or just take field notes next time. I see no reason that to confirm a county record in any state that a collection is required. Not only that but the state records indicate only Polk county, so Leroy`s not even reported these collections! I certainly hope this kind of over collecting did not happen in the 90s or is still going on. My collection is 130 species of North Carolina butterflies on slide film! Randy Emmitt Rougemont, NC Butterflies found in NC online! http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html Butterfly conservationist/photographer and Carolina Butterfly Society NC Member at Large Leptraps at aol.com wrote: > I must add my two cents to the Pyrgus centaureae wyandot issue. > > When I lived in Virginia in the late 70's and early 80's, Pyrgus centaureae > wyandot was not a hard bug to find. I collected Pyrgus centaureae wyandot in > the following counties in Virginia: > > Albemarle, Augusta, Bath, Bedford, Bland, Carroll, Craig, Flyod, Giles, > Grayson, Highland, Montgomery, Pulaski, Rockbridge, Smyth, Tazewell, Wyth and > Wise. > > In North Carolina: > > Cherokee, Haywood, Jackson, Surry, Wilkes, and Yancey. > > I have also collected Pyrgus centaureae wyandot in Michigan, Ohio, Tennessee, > and West Virginia. I have collected over a great deal of the eastern United > States and have NEVER found it near civilization. Always in remote and wild > places. > > RE: Butterflies at UV light. > > I have operated light traps for over twenty years and have collected 41 > species of butterflies and skippers in light traps. I collected over 200 > Asterocampa clyton in one light trap along the Rio Grand near Fronton, Texas > in 1996. > > Cheers, > > Leroy C. Koehn > 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle > Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 > Hm: 561-966-1655 > Cell: 561-301-4215 > E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From ciprit at snip.net Fri May 12 10:21:34 2000 From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:21:34 -0400 Subject: Wyandot in Philly? References: <3.0.5.32.20000510013803.008297a0@mail.utexas.edu>, <1000511082213.ZM3606@Gochfeld>, <391B5B0F.8DC3F4C@concentric.net> Message-ID: <391C136D.22F812D3@snip.net> The is PLENTY of cinquefoil (buttercups) in my Philadelphia neighborhood. In fact, there is a large grassy, weedy area nearby just FULL of it. And there's strawberry on my lawn. Also, there's a 14 mile long natural park about 1 1/2 mi. from my house with plenty of trees & flowers native to the area, a creek, some meadowy areas, etc. It's not exactly forest or anything, but to give you an idea of the type of space it is, one can often spot white-tailed deer and woodpeckers in the park. It's also a good place to observe at least one species of Polygonia-- I've seen either Questionmarks or Commas there. I'd have to look at my notes to remember which one I thought I observed. My point is, could there be sufficient natural habitat in my area to support Wyandot? If not, I'll have to agree that I saw a Common Checkered Skipper. Christina Randy Emmitt wrote: > Mike, > > Today I found the second ever sighting or collection of a Grizzled Skipper > presumably a Appalachian Grizzled Skipper (Pyrgus wyandot) in the Mountains > of North Carolina. I was in a meadow at it`s edge and it landed in front of > me. I studied it closely and grabbed my Glassberg`s to confirm it. I studied > Glassbergs then again the skipper and got all the field marks. It was very > worn on the hindwing and matched perfectly. I put away my Glassberg`s and > looked and it was gone. I searched for nearly an hour to no avail. I had my > camera in hand, but I was alone so I wanted to confirm it before I missed a > photo and possibly the skipper ID. Actually the Grizzled Skipper was > considered to be absent. > > The field it was in was full of Cinquefoil (Potentilla canadensis) and > strawberry (Fragaria virginiana) the grizzled Skippers host plants and 150+ > American Coppers(new state high count). I`ll be adding new photos of West > Virginia White, American Copper, Silvery Blue, Creole Pearly-eye, Dreamy > Duskywing, Sleepy Duskywing and Whirlabout to my Butterflies Found in North > Carolina site tommorrow and/ or saturday. > > Randy Emmitt > Rougemont, NC > Butterflies Found in North Carolina Online! > http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html > > Michael Gochfeld wrote: > > > The Appalachian Grizzled Skipper (Pyrgus wyandot) has not been recorded > > in NJ despite lots of searching, for many many years. Dale Schweitzer > > and Art Shapiro provided evidence that wyandot is specifically distinct > > from centaurae (a primarily Old World butterfly with a race freija in > > Canada. > > > > Even in the days of Beutenmuller (1893) this was considered "exceedingly > > rare". It occurred in trap rock glades in northern and northwestern New > > Jersey, at least through the 1930's (Rutgers specimens 1937 1938), but > > Comstock (1940) already considered it rare. I think it was one of the > > species that disappeared during the heavy pesticide use era of mosquito > > control of the late 1940's early 1950's (after which there are no > > records). But I understand the species continues to disappear over a > > much wider area of the northeast (perhaps accelerated by anti-Gypsy Moth > > campaigns), or something else. > > > > In addition to (or perhaps in preference to the strawberry (Fragaria > > virginiana), Schweitzer lists the Cinquefoil (Potentilla canadensis) as > > its local host. > > > > Mike Gochfeld From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Fri May 12 02:56:00 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:56:00 -0500 Subject: Marsupial Mammal Venom? In-Reply-To: <4nDN4.29874$fF5.904922@news1.rdc1.il.home.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000512015600.00829720@mail.utexas.edu> Does enyone know if SUGAR GLIDERS use venom to stun their insect prey? Last night while hand feeding a noctuid to my wife's sugar glider, the glider missed the insect and got my thumb with its needle-like lower incisors. Fluid from the tiny puncture wound tasted "bitter-peppery". Today the thumb is tight, bluish red and feels like a wasp stung it. I had noted how rapidly large moths, beetles, and cicadas go quiet after being bitten by the sugar glider. Some shrews use toxic saliva to stun their prey. I wonder if sugar gliders do too. This sugar glider is from commercial stock derived from *Petaurus breviceps* domesticated in Germany in the 1960's, originally from New Guinea or Australia. .......Chris Durden From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Fri May 12 20:51:28 2000 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 17:51:28 -0700 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. Message-ID: <00f901bfbc75$72855740$6fdcc2cf@cguppy> Once more prejudice wins over common sense! (1) Note the dates Leroy collected the specimens - they were not federally listed at that time and Leroy says they were widespread and common. (2) How could collecting a few specimens from each of many counties possibly affect skipper abundance? (3) I assume that you live in a house or other building that has eliminated valuable habitat for a wide diversity of butterflies, perhaps even Pyrgus centaureae wyandot? (4) The reason for the rarity of the species, as with most rare species, is very simple - Habitat Destruction! And thoughtless irrational anti-collecting statements certainly do not help protect any butterfly from that! -----Original Message----- From: Randy Emmitt To: Leptraps at aol.com Cc: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu Date: May 12, 2000 5:06 AM Subject: Re: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. >Ok, > >Can of worms here....... Why would you want to collect 24+ specimens of a rare >taxon that is a Federal Species of Concern? Now we all know why they are >expirated here in NC, Leroy C. Koehn has collected them all. Leroy buy yourself a >camera or just take field notes next time. I see no reason that to confirm a >county record in any state that a collection is required. Not only that but the >state records indicate only Polk county, so Leroy`s not even reported these >collections! I certainly hope this kind of over collecting did not happen in the >90s or is still going on. > >My collection is 130 species of North Carolina butterflies on slide film! > >Randy Emmitt >Rougemont, NC >Butterflies found in NC online! >http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html >Butterfly conservationist/photographer and >Carolina Butterfly Society NC Member at Large > >Leptraps at aol.com wrote: > >> I must add my two cents to the Pyrgus centaureae wyandot issue. >> >> When I lived in Virginia in the late 70's and early 80's, Pyrgus centaureae >> wyandot was not a hard bug to find. I collected Pyrgus centaureae wyandot in >> the following counties in Virginia: >> >> Albemarle, Augusta, Bath, Bedford, Bland, Carroll, Craig, Flyod, Giles, >> Grayson, Highland, Montgomery, Pulaski, Rockbridge, Smyth, Tazewell, Wyth and >> Wise. >> >> In North Carolina: >> >> Cherokee, Haywood, Jackson, Surry, Wilkes, and Yancey. >> >> I have also collected Pyrgus centaureae wyandot in Michigan, Ohio, Tennessee, >> and West Virginia. I have collected over a great deal of the eastern United >> States and have NEVER found it near civilization. Always in remote and wild >> places. >> >> RE: Butterflies at UV light. >> >> I have operated light traps for over twenty years and have collected 41 >> species of butterflies and skippers in light traps. I collected over 200 >> Asterocampa clyton in one light trap along the Rio Grand near Fronton, Texas >> in 1996. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Leroy C. Koehn >> 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle >> Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 >> Hm: 561-966-1655 >> Cell: 561-301-4215 >> E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com > > From hankb at theriver.com Sat May 13 00:01:08 2000 From: hankb at theriver.com (Hank & Priscilla Brodkin) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 21:01:08 -0700 Subject: SEABA Field Trip on May 20 Message-ID: <391CD384.38B388F9@theriver.com> May 20 Field Trip (DATE CHANGE!!) The next field trip will be held on Saturday, May 20. We will explore Box Canyon and the Florida Research Station in the Santa Rita Mountains. People coming from Tucson will meet to carpool at the Desert Survivors Nursery parking lot on the north side 22nd west of I10 and east of Mission at 7:00 AM. People coming from Cochise County meet at 7:00 AM at the southwest corner of the Wal-Mart parking lot on SR90 in Sierra Vista. Those times are departure times so please get there in time! Please send e-mail to us if you are attending or call Doug Mullins at (520)620-6799 if you live in Tucson or Hank at (520)803-9700 if you live in Cochise County. Dress for the field - Bring food, water, hats, binoculars and good walking shoes or boots. Some terrain may be rough. We request a $5.00 donation to SEABA for field trips. -- Hank & Priscilla Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ Lat: 31.450, Long: 110.267 SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html From Leptraps at aol.com Sat May 13 00:45:58 2000 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:45:58 EDT Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Message-ID: <11.3a46d2e.264e3806@aol.com> Let me try another nickel worths: I can see that somebody does not like my collecting habits. I lived in the mountains of Virginia from 1974 to 1982. Our home in Augusta County was set deep in a heavily wooded area on 97 acres. Pyrgus centaureae wyandot would visit the Pussy Toe's that bloomed in openings in the woods. I loved to collect in the mountains of Virginia, especially in the spring. I never had a problem locating populations of Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. I only collect few specimens from each location for the record. I visited one area near Blacksburg, Virginia in 1992 and found Pyrgus centaureae wyandot still present and in good numbers. However, I was not looking for Pyrgus centaureae wyandot, I was searching for Erora laeta, which was also present. I spend lots of time in the field, and I take voucher specimens wherever I go, for the record. My specimens are a natural history record. I never understood the listing of Pyrgus centaureae wyandot, maybe some people need to go look for it like I did. Either with a net (MY CHOICE) or a camera. They would be surprised at what they might find. And Mr. Emmit, I did report the vast majority of my records in the News of the Southern Lepidopterists' Society and the Season Summary of the Lepidopterists Society. I also gave the majority of my records to Dr. Opler when he was working on the Butterflies East of the Great Plains. They were in the mountains of Virginia and North Carolina in the 1970s and 1980s, it was still in the mountains when I left Virginia in 1983, and they were still there in the 1990s, and I will bet they are still there now. I am not attempting to be a smart ass, but who is out in the mountains looking for it now? I am just curious. The small number of specimens that I remove from nature is nothing when compared to the number that a bulldozer blade will take out. A prime example, drive south down the Florida Turnpike from Palm Beach County, after you enter Broward County you will smell the Pompano Landfill before you see it. Look to the West, that was once 605 acres of Cypress Wetlands and Hard Wood Forest of sorts, a place where I collected and will soon be houses. How many butterflies, moths, beetles, flies, rabbits, birds, snakes, mosquitoes, cockroaches, etc., etc., were lost to this land clearing project. However, once the houses are built there will be a need for pest control people to get whatever manages to survive. Now there's a viscous cycle! I live in Florida now, you would be surprised by what I have found since I moved back hear in 1998! And yes, I still reported my collecting records in the news of the Southern Lepidopterists' Society. Leroy C. Koehn 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 Hm: 561-966-1655 Cell: 561-301-4215 E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From burnbank at sympatico.ca Sat May 13 06:39:02 2000 From: burnbank at sympatico.ca (Don Lafontaine) Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 06:39:02 -0400 Subject: Scientific Name : Grammia vs. Apantesis References: <0nCS4.51448$g4.1421349@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <391D30C6.7BE73C38@sympatico.ca> Hi Kurt: Thought I'd pass along a few comments on the MONA check list (1983), Grammia versus Apantesis, etc. First, the MONA check list "cut off" was about 1979 so although the list was published in 1983 by Hodges et al. information published in the early 1980's is missed. The Tortricid workers have done us all a service in tracking changes to the check list and making an up-date available on the Web (as Jim Kruse has pointed out already in his reply to you). Changes to the North American check list are not ONLY through the MONA (Moths of North America) volumes but are published in hundreds of places, even in obscure journals in Russia (e.g. by me!) and unless you track the abstracting journals it is very hard to keep up to date on all the changes, and even harder to determine what to do when two people make different changes to the same problem (which is why we have so much confusion in butterfly names). Louis Handfields book on the Macrolepidoptera of Quebec has references to all of the changes to Macrolepidoptera names up to last year for the northeastern US and eastern Canada, and a check list of the Lepidoptera of Quebec that he produced two years ago tracks name changes for all the northeastern Lepidoptera - with references. As for the Grammia question, Kenelm (below) gives the pertinent Ferguson reference but doesn't explain what happened. Yes Grammia is a more recently proposed name that Apantesis so it is listed in the 1983 check list but as a synonym of Apantesis. When Doug did his revision of the genera of the Tiger Moth tribe Arctiini in 1985 in the journal Entomography he discovered that what we had been calling Apantesis was several distinct genera based mainly on differences in the genitalia. In this reclassification, most of the North American "Apantesis" were transferred to Grammia, which although a younger name, now had validity since it was no longer treated as the same thing as Apantesis. The only Apantesis that remained as "true" Apantesis was an eastern North American group that included nais, phyllira, and vittata and a fourth species that Doug named in the revision. Unfortunately, although several Lepidopterists have been tracking name changes to the MONA check list, no one has felt that they are comprehensive enough in it, or has the time, to make it generally available on the web. We can only envy the way the tortricid workers have got their act together ..... Don Bye the way, the genera below should be Eutolype and Psaphida!!! Kurt Jacobs wrote: > Thanks for the clarification. I also know many Eulotype were switched to > Psadypha. The only reason that I know this is because of Don Lafontaines > note following the identification of an image of rolandi. > > Is there an errata or supplement to the Checklist of Lepidoptera of America > North of Mexico (Hodges et al., 1983)? I realize that the MONA fascicles > will detail any changes, but the quick checklist guide is very handy for > verification of spellings, authors, dates, and classification. Being that > it is nearly 20 years old and much new work has emerged, possibly a list of > changes and additions is available?? > > Kurt Jacobs > > "Kenelm Philip" wrote in message > news:Pine.OSF.4.21.0005101701110.14790-100000 at aurora.uaf.edu... > > > > _Apantesis_ (1855) is an older name, not a newer one than _Grammia_ > > (1866). See the following paper: > > > > Ferguson, Douglas C., 1985. 'Contributions toward reclassification of the > > world genera of the tribe Arctiini, Part 1 -- Introduction and a revision > > of the _Neoarctia-Grammia_ group (Lepidoptera: Arctiidae; Arctiinae). > > Entomography 3:181-275. > > > > The following quotes from that paper are relevant: > > > > "Diagnosis. _Grammia_ is a mainly nearctic genus of about 30 species, > > two of which, _qenseli_...and _turbans_..., also occur in the Palearctic > > Region. It is the largest genus of Arctiidae in North America. _Grammia_, > > _Notarctia_, and _Apantesis_ form a group of three essentially American > > genera..." > > > > "Included species. I include in the genus _Grammia_ all of the species > > under _Apantesis_ from number 8172 (_quenseli_) to 8199 (_arge_) in the > > _Check List of the Lepidoptera of America North of Mexico_ (Franclemont, > > 1983:117) with the exception of 8181 (_proxima_), which I tgransfer to > > _Notarctia_. Also included are two new species which I describe below." > > > > The checklist referred to is the MONA checklist, Hodges et al. Both > > _parthenice_ and _virguncula_ occur within the range of numbers listed. > > > > Ken Philip > > fnkwp at auf.edu > > > > From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Sat May 13 06:55:22 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 06:55:22 -0400 Subject: Marsupial Mammal Venom? In-Reply-To: "Chris J. Durden" "Marsupial Mammal Venom?" (May 12, 1:56am) References: <3.0.5.32.20000512015600.00829720@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <1000513065526.ZM3606@Gochfeld> Chris, I happen to be interested in animal venoms and I'd never heard of a venom in Sugar Gliders (which doesn't mean much), but I just happen to have my Walker (MAMMALS OF THE WORLD) at hand, the section on the genus Petaurus (four species), doesn't mention anything about this (nor really anything on how they obtain or subdue prey). Sap, blossums, nectar, insects, and small vertebrates (thumb-sized) are given as food items. On the other hand many animal bites readily become infected (however I would expect that to be red and hot rather than blue). A quick check of my limited venom/toxin library provided no additional clues (but also didn't cover the Shrews, so omission is not that significant). You may be on to something interesting. However, before you go experimenting on yourself remember that some animal proteins can be sensitizers (worse reactions on subsequent bites). Good luck in sorting this out. If I encounter anything further I'll let you know. M. Gochfeld From ciprit at snip.net Sat May 13 11:23:17 2000 From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:23:17 -0400 Subject: Wyandot in Philly? References: <1000511082213.ZM3606@Gochfeld>, <391B5B0F.8DC3F4C@concentric.net>, <391C136D.22F812D3@snip.net> Message-ID: <391D7364.A7E36D40@snip.net> Oops. I confused Potentilla with Ranunculus. There's plenty of buttercup in my neighborhood, NOT cinquefoil, at least not that I've noticed. Christina ciprit wrote: > The is PLENTY of cinquefoil (buttercups) in my Philadelphia neighborhood. In > fact, there is a large grassy, weedy area nearby just FULL of it. From MWalker at gensym.com Sat May 13 21:46:08 2000 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:46:08 -0400 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63C9@hqmail.gensym.com> Randy Emmitt wrote: > collections! I certainly hope this kind of over collecting > did not happen in the > 90s or is still going on. Yep - overcollecting happens each time you drive your car up into the backroads of NC to take your pictures. It also happens every time they bulldoze another empty lot that is paid for by your contributions to McDonalds, Sears, Chevron, and Blockbuster Video. More decimations occur on account of the 100s of pounds of waste products that you create each year. Then there are all of the chemical byproducts that you endorse each day. Your yard is undoubtedly some creatures prior habitat, and the electricity that is powering your computer isn't all too friendly either. Sorry, but if you have a problem killing bugs with big showy and pretty wings - then that's your business. Please don't lay guilt trips on other people - especially those who are actively monitoring populations and making that data available to others. It's non-selective killing that eliminates our Lep friends. And we're all part of the problem. Taking pictures is honorable. Personally, I choose to kill them and mount them in drawers. Mark Walker back from NV > From llarson at hcs.harvard.edu Sat May 13 23:48:12 2000 From: llarson at hcs.harvard.edu (Lisa Larson) Date: 14 May 2000 03:48:12 GMT Subject: BUTTERFLY PICS References: <20000501205925.30485.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: these sites have some nice pictures. but does anyone know of a site where i can order macrophotograph posters of butterflies or other insects? thanks, lisa From pedagonetNOpeSPAM at hotmail.com.invalid Sun May 14 09:28:23 2000 From: pedagonetNOpeSPAM at hotmail.com.invalid (Dac PedagoNet) Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 06:28:23 -0700 Subject: BUTTERFLY PICS References: <20000501205925.30485.qmail@hotmail.com>, Message-ID: <3606c507.16c63ad6@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com> Try the "Posters" section on our main page. http://www.pedagonet.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! From mazzeip at tin.it Sun May 14 17:15:30 2000 From: mazzeip at tin.it (Paolo Mazzei) Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:15:30 +0100 Subject: Xerces Blue Message-ID: <000101bfbde9$891eccf0$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: Hi, It's me again. My class and I have so been enjoying the generous responses that we have received to our questions. One of the things my kids wanted to know about is the effect of extinct butterflies on the ecosystem. I believe the Xerces Blue butterfly is the first butterfly to become extinct in North America. I have been unablt to locate any pictures or information regarding this butterfly or why it became extinct. I thought I would send this inquiry to you and see what you or your e-mail network came up with. We still have much work that we plan to do but my class will be contacting you regarding the results of our study. Again, thank you so much for your assistance with this project. Christie Hammond From Stelenes at aol.com Sun May 14 18:20:01 2000 From: Stelenes at aol.com (Stelenes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:20:01 EDT Subject: Xerces Blue Message-ID: <78.53dd3a7.26508091@aol.com> Dear Ms. Hammond, According to the National Field Guide to North American Butterflies, the pioneering guidebook in the US showing photos of live butterflies in their "natural" habitats, by Dr. Bob Pyle and a fellow Washingtonian to your class, the story of the Xerces Blue: "Former Habitat: Coastal sand dunes of San Francisco, CA. Former Range: Upper San Francisco Peninsula from about North Beach to Presidio and south along coast to Lake Merced district ... The Xerces Blue disappeared forever in 1943 when an expanding military facility claimed the land where the last colony lived. Its memory is recalled in the name of the Xerces Society, a worldwide group devoted to the conservation of rare insects through the recognition and protection of their unique habitats." Notes to Ms. Hammond: (0) If you or any of your students pass by the Natural History Museum in Pacific Grove, CA, one of the convenient and further north overwintering sites of the Monarchs, there is a Museum of Natural History there with two or three pinned specimens of this pretty butterfly collected over 50 years ago when one could still see Xerces Blue's in the wild. They also have the detailed extermination account repeated of what happened. I suppose the threat of World War II and lesser ecological awareness together during the Japanese and German aggression campaigns was judged so important that the butterflies didn't have a chance. PG is near Monterey and a couple hours' drive south of San Francisco. (1) A real key point at the foundation of "What happens to the world when a butterfly species is lost" is what happens when a unique habitats and the treasure chest of diversity is reduced and lost? It is no secret that this is happening at a rate that will make it look more and more like the Sahara desert or Haiti or even London or Metro-New Jersey in short order. The troubling thing is that it is in our lifetimes. This is not to discount the loss of an irreplaceable species. How sad of a world it would be without birds singing, except for pigeons, in the morning, and the only butterflies being Cabbage Whites, and the only shells, from Garden Snails. For parts of northern Europe among other places in the world, scenarios like this are too close an uncomfortable near reality. (2) As for what is lost when a unique life form is forever exterminated, it might be a good idea not to have your student think that you can so easily separate causes and effects in the natural world. That is a little of a challenging, though holding class outside in an appropriate location or on a field trip, could help when it is discussed. Everything seems to center on maintaining a healthy habitat and butterflies are a good indicator or health, partly due to their visibility and also due to the appreciation people seem to have for their beauty. Perhaps the Internet site of the Xerces Society itself has one of the best answers to your class' question on what happens when a species is forever lost (I cut it and pasted it next). http://www.xerces.org/about.htm >From the Xerces site http://www.xerces.org/about.htm: (3) In the case of the Xerces Blue's habitat which was destroyed because it no longer had the plants and habitat it needed, you could mention that before people came to settle the beautiful Pacific Northwest, in place of the endless farms were meadows and fields of wildflowers of beauty beyond my words' ability to describe, like a magical pristine kingdom. There were fantastic forests of gigantic trees like Redwoods Giant Sequoias and Douglas Firs which were every bit as magical. Now apartments and bald hills replace them, erosion problems in the interior as well as the coasts are solved by concrete instead of wildlife. (4) I always wanted to have a class of young children to critique the stories of Paul Bunyan and his big Blue Ox Babe who came to symbolize our fascination in the 1800's with environmental destruction and compare it to how the world changes today. (5) As an extra project related to habitat destruction, you could research the Columbia River in your area. Perhaps the grandeur of America is forgotten as people are so impressed by the likes of great companies like Microsoft (maybe Redmond is around the corner from you in Bellvue, WA). The Columbia wasn't discovered until about 200 years ago by the literate world, yet, I believe it was second only to the Amazon River in terms of volume of water passing through during the snowmelt season. It was a glorious river, equally furious and beautiful, nothing like we see today. Piece by piece, its picturesque zigzags and elbows were straightened out, back flooded into valleys to form lakes, just like Paul Bunyan did with his ax, no doubt in the process losing different kinds of butterflies as vast amounts of territory were tamed for men and women. If you think about the Xerces Blue, you can extend that to think about what has happened before 1943 a moment of silent meditation, a fine way to reflect on how to avoid this in the future and understand our actions impact our fragile planet. (6) You might try the Xerces Society at www.xerces.org for information on further educational materials. I think they are in Portland, Oregon, though I used to think it was Wyoming or Washington. They especially focus on all kinds of insects and 8+ legged bugs, and education is part of their mission. (7) Good luck with the kids! you can check my homepage link: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4048/Douglas/douglas.html for a little more info on pristine habitat in the Pacific Northwest, though it is somewhat biased and sad. Best wishes. Doug Dawn Woodland, CA stelenes at pobox.com In a message dated 5/14/00 1:27:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mazzeip at tin.it writes: > Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, > mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: > > Hi, > > It's me again. My class and I have so been enjoying the generous > responses that we have received to our questions. One of the things my > kids wanted to know about is the effect of extinct butterflies on the > ecosystem. I believe the Xerces Blue butterfly is the first butterfly > to become extinct in North America. I have been unablt to locate any > pictures or information regarding this butterfly or why it became > extinct. I thought I would send this inquiry to you and see what you or > your e-mail network came up with. We still have much work that we plan > to do but my class will be contacting you regarding the results of our > study. > > Again, thank you so much for your assistance with this project. > > Christie Hammond From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Sun May 14 18:56:09 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:56:09 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: moths & light Message-ID: Jim Mason asked: > What is the current best guess why moths are attracted to light? > Why are insects attracted to light? > Or is it some light (wavelengths) and not all? The 'textbook' answer is that many nocturnal insects navigate by maintaining a constant flight direction with respect to celestial light sources (so-called menotaxis). This mechanism will lead to a logarithmic spiral in to a nearby light source. There are a number of other ways that insects orient themselves to light, so the picture is no doubt more complex than that. There have also been a number of other mechanisms proposed at various times, some of which (as Callahan's ideas about IR and moth antennae) have not to my knowledge ever been experimentally tested (possibly because they were considered too wild to be worth testing?). Insect eyes are in general more sensitive to UV than human eyes are, and UV lamps do very well at attracting insects. Some insects have essentially no sensitivity to red, and would presumably not respond to a red light source. Anyone who has run a light trap for moths can verify that other orders of insects are also attracted to light! Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From Stelenes at aol.com Sun May 14 19:43:08 2000 From: Stelenes at aol.com (Stelenes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:43:08 EDT Subject: Xerces Blue Message-ID: Dear Ms. Hammond, A few more links I just found surfing with pics and good info, some of which were reminders that some butterflies were forced to extinction before the Xerces Blue, like the "Brown Satyr" mentioned (Cercyonis sthenele sthenele) being lost to extinction in about 1880. Scientists argue a lot about when a butterfly is different from another, and this is the case with the "Brown Satyr." It was forced to extinction during the post gold-rush era in San Francisco, but a butterfly far away on Santa Cruz Island looks a lot little like it so you might hear from some that it is not really extinct. The one in San Francisco did have its own name and some characteristics and habits, so it is quite probable that the San Francisco Brown Satyr is extinct. Upper wing surface picture of a pinned Xerces Blue: http://www.fmnh.org/butterfly/conserv2_basic.htm Another pic of the Xerces Blue and even more on its sad story from the California Academy of Sciences Museum in San Francisco: http://www.sfgate.com/getoutside/1996/oct/satyr.html Under - Lower wing surface picture of the Xerces Blue: I couldn't find one pic of the underside of the wings of the Xerces Blue on the web, but this butterfly is considered by many people to be the same species as the Xerces Blue in parallel to what was mentioned above regarding names and the Brown Satyr. The Xerces Blue is very easy to distinguish from the Silvery Blue which is a common name for the species argued to contain it. If you look at the upper wing it is hard to tell, but the lower surface were albino white dots instead of the black ones you see in this pic of the Silvery Blue: http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/bflyusa/ca/243.htm Article by Pyle attempting to answer the importance of extirpations of local populations and a bit more on the Xerces Blue extinction: http://www.defenders.org/bio-ee05.html Please, I hope the name business doesn't confuse you, but we all have to live with the fact that telling one butterfly from another is not always as easy as it seems. If consensus is reached on any of them, the sad extinction of a race of that species is just as terrible a loss. Best. Doug Dawn. Woodland, CA stelenes at pobox.com From pedagonetNOpeSPAM at hotmail.com.invalid Sun May 14 19:17:38 2000 From: pedagonetNOpeSPAM at hotmail.com.invalid (Dac PedagoNet) Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:17:38 -0700 Subject: Xerces Blue References: <000101bfbde9$891eccf0$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> Message-ID: <19fe428d.a12384ba@usw-ex0108-063.remarq.com> Have you tried searching http://www.insectclopedia.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! From birdcr at concentric.net Sun May 14 20:26:05 2000 From: birdcr at concentric.net (Randy Emmitt) Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:26:05 -0400 Subject: Xerces Blue References: <000101bfbde9$891eccf0$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> Message-ID: <391F441D.D654C41F@concentric.net> Christie, Doug Dawn wrote: "The Xerces Blue is very easy to distinguish from the Silvery Blue which is a common name for the species argued to contain it. If you look at the upper wing it is hard to tell, but the lower surface were albino white dots instead of the black ones you see in this pic of the Silvery Blue" I have photos from May 01, 2000 of our North Carolina species of Silvery Blue (Glaucopsyche lygdamus) after reading about the Ca. version I see that ours is much more habitat restricted. The four I found all were by themselves many miles apart. All at high elevations in the mountians and very restricted to it`s host plants Carolina Vetch (Vicia caroliniana). The photos I took of the three that let me photograph them may still be out there as it was only 13 days ago. Have a look at http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/blue_silvery01.htm Regards, Randy L Emmitt Rougemont, NC Butterflies Found In NC Online! http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html Paolo Mazzei wrote: > Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, > mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: > > Hi, > > It's me again. My class and I have so been enjoying the generous > responses that we have received to our questions. One of the things my > kids wanted to know about is the effect of extinct butterflies on the > ecosystem. I believe the Xerces Blue butterfly is the first butterfly > to become extinct in North America. I have been unablt to locate any > pictures or information regarding this butterfly or why it became > extinct. I thought I would send this inquiry to you and see what you or > your e-mail network came up with. We still have much work that we plan > to do but my class will be contacting you regarding the results of our > study. > > Again, thank you so much for your assistance with this project. > > Christie Hammond From acmaea at together.net Sun May 14 20:26:10 2000 From: acmaea at together.net (Gustav W. Verderber) Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:26:10 -0400 Subject: NATURE & PHOTO WORKSHOPS 2000 Message-ID: <003801bfbe04$2c6dc040$df18e7ce@GustavW.Verderber> Gustav W. Verderber, Environmental Interpretation Nature & Photo Workshops 2000 The following workshops are currently open for enrollment. Itineraries incorporate experiential learning into an affordable ecotour format for anyone interested in natural history, photography, or outdoor recreation. Post-secondary credit is available for select workshops from Thomas Aquinas College where indicated. However, faculty are welcome to consider any of these itineraries as field components for courses in the appropriate areas. More detailed workshop/course syllabuses can be made available upon request. Please print and post to your colleagues, students, members, and visitors. For further information please visit http://www.GustavWVerderber.com. THE GALAPAGOS ISLANDS Aug 15 to Aug 23, 2000 / Cost: $1,860.00 pp Optional Amazon Extension: Aug 24 to Aug 28 / Cost: $870.00 pp It is my pleasure to invite you to join me as I return to the Galapagos Islands this coming August to experience and photograph the natural history of the Land of Darwin. I am limiting the workshop to a maximum of 12 participants. Such a small group will encourage a comradely atmosphere among all the participants as well as afford me the privilege of attending personally to the particular abilities and needs of each individual participant. The workshop will accommodate serious (not to be confused with "expert") wildlife photographers as well as anyone with a passion for natural history, evolution, and travel. In other words, we will arrange our visits to the various islands to maximize photo opportunities and we plan to linger, observe, and photograph the wildlife and landscapes we encounter rather than be in a hurry to return to the yacht. Days are long and, if you are intent on getting high-quality images, even strenuous. Please take this into consideration. Once again, in cooperation with Rainforest and Reef, we have made this workshop as sustainable as possible in that all guides, accommodations, etc. are provided exclusively by Ecuadorian business interests. We will be led by an expert naturalist guide who will also keep our particular interests in mind. I very much hope that you will think about joining what will be one of the most pleasant, intimate, and memorable experiences that I could imagine sharing with you. Visit my web site (URL below) to view the itinerary, browse the Galapagos Gallery, and to be very pleasantly surprised by the cost of this wonderful opportunity. Proceed directly to web page for this workshop: http://www.gustavwverderber.com/galapagos.html SOUTHEAST ALASKA WORKSHOP Available Dates 2000: Jun 15 to Jun 28, Jul 2 to Jun 15 (filled), Jul 20 to Aug 2 Cost: $1,050.00 pp (undergraduate credit available from Aquinas College, Grand Rapids, MI) This workshop immerses you in the natural history and culture of SE Alaska. Highlights include rafting the beautiful Sauk River, a federally protected ?Wild and Scenic? river that offers views of the Cascade Mountain Range, hanging glaciers, and wildlife. This is regarded as one of the premier rafting experiences in the Pacific Northwest. You will then embark on a fantastic voyage through the Inside Passage of SE Alaska, past spectacular scenery that includes glacially carved fjords, waterfalls tumbling down from snow-capped mountains, quaint fishing villages, pristine temperate rainforest, humpback whales, bald eagles, and much, much more. Most of our ensuing activities will be based out of Wrangell, Petersburg, and Sitka. Naturalist John Muir staged expeditions out of Wrangell. Among them will be camping in the Tongass National Forest, largest in the U.S., sea kayaking, whale watching in Frederick Sound, and fishing for salmon & halibut. A boat trip to LeConte glacier is also planned. LeConte glacier is the southern-most tidewater glacier in N. America and constantly calves large icebergs into LeConte Bay. Killer whales, seals, and porpoises are common here. We will also stay in Sitka, considered Alaska?s most beautiful seaside village, hike the 2.5 mile Sealion Cove trail into old growth Sitka spruce and hemlock forest, visit Tlingit Indian and Russian cultural features, and be entertained by Tlingit elders. Proceed directly to web page for this workshop: http://www.gustavwverderber.com/alaska.html The Lake Eden Photo Camp-In: Basic Field Techniques in Close-up Nature Photography Jun 9 to Jun 11, 2000 / Cost: $290.00 pp This year?s spring workshop is another of the popular photo camp-ins at picturesque Lake Eden in the heart of Vermont?s northern Green Mountains. Bring your tent or RV and spend a delightful weekend in the company of fellow nature photography enthusiasts. Classroom sessions are combined with field excursions to Belvidere Pond, an undeveloped pond teeming with wildlife, and the Babcock Nature Preserve during which I will share with you my professional field techniques of close-up nature photography. The spring wildflowers will be in bloom, peepers will be chorusing, and, of course, the insects will be hung with care in the dew-drenched meadows. This workshop is designed for anyone merely thinking about photographing the natural world as well as for those of you who have already spent some time stalking nature near you home. All the techniques that enable me to produce publishable close-up images of insects, frogs, flowers, and even microscopic subjects (without a microscope) will be discussed. In just one weekend, this workshop will take you from beginner to serious amateur and do it in one of the most pleasant settings you could imagine. Groups are kept to a maximum of 15 people to assure a cozy, comradely format and to allow for personal attention to everyone?s particular interests. As with all of my other workshops, after you have processed your film, I invite you to send me nonreturnable copies of the images you take during the workshop so that I can critique your efforts. Deborah Godin and her family will be our hosts; they will be seeing to all our corporeal needs, that is, they will provide us with shelter, food, coin-operated showers, other basic amenities and, well, you might not want to leave after the workshop is completed. (Whatever you do while you?re at Lake Eden, DO NOT ORDER THE BANANA SPLIT! I came to Lake Eden in 1997 intending to camp for the summer while I looked for a home. The setting, the people, the variety of photographic opportunities are enough to seduce most anyone. Then, one day, I ordered one of Deb?s banana splits. After I finished it, I decided to put off buying a home. Instead, I returned to Lake Eden and lived there in an RV for three years! I believe she puts something in the toppings.) Proceed directly to web page for this workshop: http://www.gustavwverderber.com/eden.html For detailed workshop itineraries please visit my web site: http://www.GustavWVerderber.com If you think that you might want to join us, don?t hesitate too long; these workshops fill up quickly. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns and, of course, to find out how to register. With gratitude and respect, Gustav W. Verderber Environmental Interpretation ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NATURE PHOTOGRAPHY * FREE-LANCE WRITING * NATURE TRAVEL http://www.GUSTAVWVERDERBER.com Email: G.Verderber at Sciencenet.com P.O. Box 153, Lowell, VT 05847 Toll Free: (877) 560-0623 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From mazzeip at tin.it Mon May 15 05:47:13 2000 From: mazzeip at tin.it (Paolo Mazzei) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:47:13 +0100 Subject: M & B of Europe Website Message-ID: <000101bfbe52$8c984b90$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> "Moths and Butterflies of Europe", http://web.tiscalinet.it/leps/ http://digilander.iol.it/leps/ http://space.tin.it/scienza/silivoc/: now over 1000 pictures of over 400 species. Paolo Mazzei and Diego Reggianti, Rome, Italy From saleel at -NOSPAM-ntlworld.com Mon May 15 04:57:55 2000 From: saleel at -NOSPAM-ntlworld.com (Saleel Majeed) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:57:55 +0100 Subject: Metamorphosis in lepidoptera... Message-ID: Hello; In my biology syllabus, the following paragraphs come up: ----- METAMORPHOSIS AS ILLUSTRATED BY THE LIFE CYCLE OF A LEPIDOPTEROUS INSECT This section should reflect change in protein and energy requirements associated with growth in the larva and reproduction and dispersal in the adult. Associated changes in food, mouthparts and gut enzymes. ----- Now, unfortunately, none of the three biology textbooks I have cover this. And my teacher also doesnt have much info on this topic. I was wondering if anyone knows any information on this which they can share with me - especially re: the "gut enzymes" part. Or, if anyone knows any webistes which cover this, then please let me know. Please help if you can. TIA. From jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu Mon May 15 11:20:54 2000 From: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu (Bruce Walsh) Date: 15 May 00 08:20:54 -0700 Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: <200005151517.IAA04436@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Pat writes: l > > 2) Bruce seems to assume that the burden of proof > > should lie with on the anti-releasers. This is point of view would not be held by > > anyone working in biological control. There are two issues here. First, I fully agree that NONNATIVE species should not be introduced (released) without the appropriate studies. Perhaps I did not make this point clearly. However, my comments on releases is that I know of no evidence as to why NATIVE species should not be released, especially if there are members of the same panmixtic breeding population. Certainly painted ladies fall into this category, and the evidence also strongly suggests that monarch may as well. In this later category, the concern seems to be just what the "burden of proof" is. Clearly, introducing a non-native species can disturb an ecosystem--- there are LOTS of examples of this. However, are there examples where low-level introduction of a species already present (albeit perhaps from a slightly different population) has been shown to cause problems? The population-genetic arguments of eroding the gene pool are incorrect and simply reflect a poor understanding of the field. Hence, I think that the anti-releases should suggest what protocol needs to be satisfied for release. This is certainly sensible, as otherwise the fear would be that after spending (say) $50,000 on a bunch of studies discounting a set of concerns, the anti-releases will them simply add new items to the list. This can go on forever. Hence, a reasonable approach would be to detail just what the concerns are, and what studies would reduce these concerns. Again, the backdrop for this is that there must be either reasonable theoretical and/or empirical evidence for the concerns. I think this sets up the framework for a reasoned discussion where the concerns of both sides can be addressed. Peace Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000515/698b966f/attachment.html From patfoley at csus.edu Mon May 15 12:05:40 2000 From: patfoley at csus.edu (Patrick Foley) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:05:40 -0700 Subject: I need help....... References: <200005151517.IAA04438@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <39202054.37FE02CD@csus.edu> Bruce and other leppers, Here is my short list of problems to solve before accepting scientifically unregulated butterfly release. 1) Let us first decide how many species we are willing to open to release. Every species that is released is a species harder to study scientifically with respect to phylogeography (John Avise's term for phylogenetic-geographic studies within the species or in the process of speciation). Pro-releasers often state that most releases are of monarchs and painted ladies, so this issue is small. Researchers into those species might not agree. The evolution of painted lady species around the world could be a great future revelation that I hate to give up. Several monarch researchers are already in print against unregulated release. But a case could be made that scientific research should not reserve all butterfly species for themselves. Where are releasers willing to draw the line? How many species? Which ones? If we can get past this problem, we reach the threat to the species or subspecies themselves. Here are some poorly solved problems that need better solutions before I could be happy with unregulated releases of butterflies. 2) How important is the natural metapopulation structure of the species for future evolution? Sewall Wright argued, and such researchers as Ernst Mayr, Stephen Jay Gould and Alan Templeton, agree that local, semi-isolated to isolated populations are critical to the production of new adaptive types because random genetic drift is easily overwhelmed by even a little migration for neutral alleles. However, strongly selected alleles should not mind a little migration. Moreover Barton, Coyne and Turelli argue that Wright's shifting balance theory and related speciational processes are not as important as local selection in the production of new types. The point here is that it is scientifically controversial whether isolation is critical to future evolution. 3) What is the geographic distribution of infectious diseases in butterflies and how critical is isolation to avoid endemic (enzootic if you must) and epidemic outbreak dangers? This is such a big problem, I will just let it sit there sunning itself. 4) What roles do various forms of (loosely-defined) selfish DNA play in butterfly species? Included here are any forms of DNA that might spread to the detriment of most of the genome, e. g. transposons, sexually selected runaway traits. Bruce is probably right to argue that a little unregulated release is usually safe for a species, and in fact can add to the useful genes subject to local selection. But the four issues raised above are not just quibbles, they go to the heart of our ignorance and our hopes to overcome it before we destroy most of the natural world on Earth. Perhaps, in view of our ignorance and past errors in the release of diseases and pests, some humility is warranted. Bruce Walsh wrote: > Pat writes: > > l > > 2) Bruce seems to assume that the burden of proof > > > should lie with on the anti-releasers. This is point of view would > not be held by > > > anyone working in biological control. > > There are two issues here. First, I fully agree that NONNATIVE species > should not be introduced (released) without the appropriate studies. > Perhaps I did not make this point clearly. > > However, my comments on releases is that I know of no evidence as to why > NATIVE species should not be released, especially if there are members of > the same panmixtic breeding population. Certainly painted ladies fall > into this category, and the evidence also strongly suggests that monarch may > as well. > > In this later category, the concern seems to be just what the "burden of > proof" is. Clearly, introducing a non-native species can disturb an > ecosystem--- there are LOTS of examples of this. However, are there examples > where low-level introduction of a species already present (albeit perhaps > from a slightly different population) has been shown to cause problems? > The population-genetic arguments of eroding the gene pool are incorrect and > simply reflect a poor understanding of the field. Hence, I think that > the anti-releases should suggest what protocol needs to be satisfied for > release. This is certainly sensible, as otherwise the fear would be that > after spending (say) $50,000 on a bunch of studies discounting a set of > concerns, the anti-releases will them simply add new items to the list. This > can go on forever. > > Hence, a reasonable approach would be to detail just what the concerns > are, and what studies would reduce these concerns. Again, the backdrop for > this is that there must be either reasonable theoretical and/or empirical > evidence for the concerns. I think this sets up the framework for a > reasoned discussion where the concerns of both sides can be addressed. > > Peace > > Bruce From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Mon May 15 10:14:52 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Mon, 15 May 00 14:14:52 GMT Subject: Xerces Blue References: <000101bfbde9$891eccf0$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN>, <391F441D.D654C41F@concentric.net> Message-ID: <958400092snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <391F441D.D654C41F at concentric.net> birdcr at CONCENTRIC.NET "Randy Emmitt" writes: > Christie, > > Doug Dawn wrote: > > "The Xerces Blue is very easy to distinguish from > the Silvery Blue which is a common name for the species argued to contain > it. > If you look at the upper wing it is hard to tell, but the lower surface > were > albino white dots instead of the black ones you see in this pic of the > Silvery Blue" Actually the Xerces Blue existed in two forms as I understand it . tHe typical xerces form and the form antiacis. The latter had heavily black centred white spots. Does anyone know how this compares with the Palos Verdes Blue which is obviously a close relation? The Palos Verdes has more pronounced hindwing spots which sound just like this. For those used to latin the Palos Verdes Blue is Glaucopsyche lygdamus palosverdesensis. > > I have photos from May 01, 2000 of our North Carolina species of Silvery > Blue (Glaucopsyche lygdamus) after reading about the Ca. version I see that > ours is much more habitat restricted. The four I found all were by > themselves many miles apart. All at high elevations in the mountians and > very restricted to it`s host plants Carolina Vetch (Vicia caroliniana). The > photos I took of the three that let me photograph them may still be out > there as it was only 13 days ago. Have a look at > http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/blue_silvery01.htm > > Regards, > > Randy L Emmitt > Rougemont, NC > Butterflies Found In NC Online! > http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html > > Paolo Mazzei wrote: > > > Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, > > mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > It's me again. My class and I have so been enjoying the generous > > responses that we have received to our questions. One of the things my > > kids wanted to know about is the effect of extinct butterflies on the > > ecosystem. I believe the Xerces Blue butterfly is the first butterfly > > to become extinct in North America. I have been unablt to locate any > > pictures or information regarding this butterfly or why it became > > extinct. I thought I would send this inquiry to you and see what you or > > your e-mail network came up with. We still have much work that we plan > > to do but my class will be contacting you regarding the results of our > > study. > > > > Again, thank you so much for your assistance with this project. > > > > Christie Hammond > > -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Mon May 15 12:32:43 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:32:43 -0700 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2753@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Leroy, many thanks for sharing your knowledge of this butterfly and also for caring enough to add to our collective knowledge of butterflies by spending your valuable time and money to do so. I too have spent a small fortune exploring the wonders of the natural world and finding out what lives where. I have consistently found that the conventional wisdom as reflected in publications and databases is not so wise after all; most organisms seem to be more widespread than one would conclude from the hand-wringing of the armchair doomsayers who spend little time in the field. It is sometimes depressing to find that in human society there are those who insist on criticizing people who add to our knowledge and would rather that we all live by their personal opinion of what is moral and ethical. There is no substitute for voucher specimens; new records that are not substantiated by a good photograph, voucher specimen, or multiple qualified observers are generally not accepted as new records. Despite the growing impediments to biodiversity data collection that are perpetrated by do-gooders with personal agendas; society needs more keen people out and about to see what is really going on. -----Original Message----- From: Leptraps at aol.com [mailto:Leptraps at aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:46 PM To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu Subject: RE: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Let me try another nickel worths: I can see that somebody does not like my collecting habits. I lived in the mountains of Virginia from 1974 to 1982. Our home in Augusta County was set deep in a heavily wooded area on 97 acres. Pyrgus centaureae wyandot would visit the Pussy Toe's that bloomed in openings in the woods. I loved to collect in the mountains of Virginia, especially in the spring. I never had a problem locating populations of Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. I only collect few specimens from each location for the record. I visited one area near Blacksburg, Virginia in 1992 and found Pyrgus centaureae wyandot still present and in good numbers. However, I was not looking for Pyrgus centaureae wyandot, I was searching for Erora laeta, which was also present. I spend lots of time in the field, and I take voucher specimens wherever I go, for the record. My specimens are a natural history record. I never understood the listing of Pyrgus centaureae wyandot, maybe some people need to go look for it like I did. Either with a net (MY CHOICE) or a camera. They would be surprised at what they might find. And Mr. Emmit, I did report the vast majority of my records in the News of the Southern Lepidopterists' Society and the Season Summary of the Lepidopterists Society. I also gave the majority of my records to Dr. Opler when he was working on the Butterflies East of the Great Plains. They were in the mountains of Virginia and North Carolina in the 1970s and 1980s, it was still in the mountains when I left Virginia in 1983, and they were still there in the 1990s, and I will bet they are still there now. I am not attempting to be a smart ass, but who is out in the mountains looking for it now? I am just curious. The small number of specimens that I remove from nature is nothing when compared to the number that a bulldozer blade will take out. A prime example, drive south down the Florida Turnpike from Palm Beach County, after you enter Broward County you will smell the Pompano Landfill before you see it. Look to the West, that was once 605 acres of Cypress Wetlands and Hard Wood Forest of sorts, a place where I collected and will soon be houses. How many butterflies, moths, beetles, flies, rabbits, birds, snakes, mosquitoes, cockroaches, etc., etc., were lost to this land clearing project. However, once the houses are built there will be a need for pest control people to get whatever manages to survive. Now there's a viscous cycle! I live in Florida now, you would be surprised by what I have found since I moved back hear in 1998! And yes, I still reported my collecting records in the news of the Southern Lepidopterists' Society. Leroy C. Koehn 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 Hm: 561-966-1655 Cell: 561-301-4215 E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu Mon May 15 12:47:27 2000 From: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu (Bruce Walsh) Date: 15 May 00 09:47:27 -0700 Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: <200005151644.JAA12138@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Pat: Let's try this for starters. Suppose the species of interest has a very low Fst (for the general reader, Fst= fraction of genetic variation do to between-, as opposed to within-, population differences), so that essentially all of the variation is between individuals, rather than between metapopulations. This implies that the population is really just a single strongly-connected population, so that historical gene flow has been strong. This negates your concerns 1-4, as levels of releases simply mimic the natural population-wide exchange that has occurred historically. For such species what are your concerns? The nice feature about the low Fst species that this is easy (and cost-effective) to check. A rule allowing releases into areas where the Fst values between source and release points are very close to zero seems reasonable and a first step that perhaps both sides can agree on. Peace Bruce From rworth at oda.state.or.us Mon May 15 12:56:10 2000 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:56:10 -0700 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot In-Reply-To: <11.3a46d2e.264e3806@aol.com> References: <11.3a46d2e.264e3806@aol.com> Message-ID: Leroy wrote: > >drive south down the Florida Turnpike from Palm Beach County, after you enter >Broward County you will smell the Pompano Landfill before you see it. Look to >the West, that was once 605 acres of Cypress Wetlands and Hard Wood Forest of Hey Leroy, I think that is the one we called "Mount Trashmore" around the Endangered Species lab in Gainesville. It's pretty sad. It's the tallest mountain in south Florida. Maybe someone could carve some presidents' faces in that one too. Cheers, Rich Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 From JADAMS at em.daltonstate.edu Mon May 15 13:06:15 2000 From: JADAMS at em.daltonstate.edu (DR. JAMES ADAMS) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:06:15 -0400 Subject: moths & light In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200005151701.NAA10007@dr-who.daltonstate.edu> Ken Phillip wrote: > Jim Mason asked: > > > What is the current best guess why moths are attracted to light? Why > > are insects attracted to light? Or is it some light (wavelengths) > > and not all? > > The 'textbook' answer is that many nocturnal insects navigate by > maintaining a constant flight direction with respect to celestial > light sources (so-called menotaxis). This mechanism will lead to a > logarithmic spiral in to a nearby light source. > > There are a number of other ways that insects orient themselves > to light, so the picture is no doubt more complex than that. As before, I will paste here a rather lengthy response I supplied back in 1997 for the first time. I keep it archived for moments such as these. Indeed, the answer *is* more complex! Below is a summary of some of what's known, as well as some extrapolation from what's known. Also, for anyone who is interested, I have two long postings of references on insects attracted to light that I can repost. Just let me know. As for the discussion that follows, some of the names of the people involved in this discussion will be familiar to some of you, some may not. . . . asked about whether stars are really bright enough to be used as navigational cues. The answer is "yes." In studies done on the sensitivity of moth optical neurons to light, they have an extremely low threshold, meaning that even very low levels of light will allow the moths to "see". Not see sharply, but undoubtedly enough to avoid large (dark) objects. All organisms need to be able to orient themselves/navigate within in their environment in relation to other objects (foodplants, mates, finding shelter, etc.). I grant you that finding foodplants and mates for moths flying at night is probably done mostly using chemical cues. However, when just "cruising" moths need cues that will allow them to maintain appropriate orientation to surrounding objects, the ground, etc., and one of the cues that is consistent for moths is that light sources (back before the advent of human-made light sources) were predictably "UP" (in the sky), as Ken suggests. I grant you that the moon is not always at a consistent angle upward in the sky, but it *is* always up, as are the stars. And, by the way, in response to the question "Do moths migrate", the answer is also "yes". Not necessarily in masses (though these *do* ocur) like the Monarch Butterfly, and not necessarily in a particular direction at a particular time of the year, but moths do fly long distances and likely use the sky light cues in the sky *directionally* as well (though little research has been done on this). For instance, there is some documentation for the movement of moths out of the west coast lowlands of Costa Rica during the dry season up into the moister mountainous areas to the east, and back down into the coastal dry forest during the rainy season. The observation that moths (appear to [see below]) fly more strongly on humid, cloudy nights is also well documented, but to say that it doesn't make much sense therefore that they would use lights as a navigational cue doesn't necessarily follow. Most animals have *more than one* way to navigate through their environment, and just because they don't necessarily use one all the time doesn't mean they *can't*. (Moths *do* have functional eyes, after all!!). Just as an off the wall example, homing pigeons can use sun compass and magnetic cues to migrate -- a pigeon released on a sunny day with a small magnet attached to its head (which screws up their magnetic sense) can still navigate just fine. Unencumbered pigeons do just fine on a cloudy day as well. However, release a pigeon with a magnet on its head on a cloudy day and they fly around aimlessly. The point? Moths undoubtedly can use lights as a navigational cue, and along with gravitational cues, use the light sources from above to maintain appropriate "up-down" orientation in their environment. Martin Damus added another message to the discussion, and I have included a perfectly worded piece of his discussion here, since it seems completely appropriate to the point I was attempting to make. ". . . noctuid moths migrate using the moon as a primary reference point. To calibrate the location in the sky with actual geographical direction, they periodically use an internal geomagnetic compass. In fact, every hour, they alter their flight path by 16 degrees to correct for travel of the moon across the sky (for purists, rotation of the earth). On moonless nights they navigate solely with the geomagnetic compass. I guess using the moon is 'easier', and therefore they 'prefer' that when it is visible, hence the screwup when bright lights are visible." Just as an aside, Jim Hanlon mentioned fish coming to the surface of the ocean during a full moon -- this is well documented for many fresh water fish as well. Perhaps one of the reasons is that insects flying through their environment on a well moonlit night will be confused by *reflected* moonlight from below and go cascading down into the water (more food for the fish). I know this has come up in discussions with other entomologists before, but I am unaware if this is actually scientifically documented. Now, why do moths come to lights? Someone has mentioned something about moths perhaps being able to hear vibrations from the light and come to the light based on certain sound frequencies being produced by the lights. This *might* be a possibility, but there are three things which suggest that this is certainly not a likely mechanism. I doubt very seriously that white light bulbs and white light bulbs painted yellow emit significantly different sound impulses, and so this would not explain why moths come in to different colored lights in significantly different numbers. Secondly, there are some families of moths which, in essence, have *no* hearing capabilities whatsoever (for instance, the Saturniidae [egs., Polyphemus, Cecropia, Io, Imperial, etc.]), so without the ability to hear sound frequencies, saturniids and some other moths would never end up at lights, and this is certainly not the case. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, there would have to be some reason why the sound is *meaningful* to the moths, and I doubt that this would be likely for most moth species. Only a few moths actually use any kind of acoustic communication, so for the majority of moths, sounds at night are likely to indicate danger (flee!) as opposed to some sort of attraction. The use of moon and stars as navigational cues can at least partly explain why moths end up at lights. Both Martin Damus and David Britton bring up the point about moths maintaining a certain angle between themselves and light sources, which explains the "spiralling in" that is easily observable in many species as they come to lights, and which Ken refers to in the first part of this message. Interestingly, some of the species that do this most strikingly, such as the saturniids, are also some of the species that do not have hearing apparati. The reason why they stay at the lights (after "hit(ting) the moon, an accomplishment they never evolved a decent response to." [nice quote, Martin] is likely because, now close to a the bright light source, the artificial "moon" has become the "sun", and the moths settle down . . . for their daytime "sleep" However, I do doubt that these moths are then as result (at least not the first time they come into the lights) half-starved, as someone suggested. The reason why some moths simply fall from the wall when tapped has to do with thermoregulation. Cooled moths (in many cases) require a certain warm up period before flight (accomplished by "shivering" [muscular thermogenesis]). Being half starved is irrelevant for some species which do not feed as adults, such as the saturniids mentioned above. Using nighttime celestial lights sources as navigational cues would also be a convenient explanation as to why it appears that fewer moths come to lights on well moonlit nights. Full moonlight is harder to compete with using the superstimulating electric light sources, as well as why it therefore may appear that there is *more activity* at artificial light sources on cloudy nights, though cloudy nights also tend to be warmer and more humid, which may have more of an effect (as suggested by some of the Jan. 2000 posters) . However, this is certainly not the entire story. Many, many moths, if you watch them come to lights, fly *directly* at the light source as they come in, with little indication of any spiral. Many of these moth species can here, so it is possible, and I stress *remotely possible* that these moths are perhaps using *both* a light and sonic cue to get to the light. This does *not*, however, explain why the moths "like" either the light or the sound. There is not a lot of actual collected data which refers to this phenomenon. Hope clarifies some points (though clearly muddies some others) for continued discussion! P.S. As to the decline of species because of artificial lighting, the main reason for this (assuming it does happen) is the predation that occurs on the placid moths sitting on walls, etc. in the morning (not against some background that they might be camouflaged on). I have seen numerous birds "cleaning up" in the early morning, as well as Bald-Face Hornets and wasps of the genus Tripoxylon. There may indeed be some selection going on for individual moths that do *not*respond strongly to light cues (but, of course, if the navigational argument is sound, it would be impossible to select this out of a moth species!!). ------------------- If you have other questions, please feel free to ask. James Dr. James K. Adams Dept. of Natural Science and Math Dalton State College 213 N. College Drive Dalton, GA 30720 Phone: (706)272-4427; fax: (706)272-2533 U of Michigan's President James Angell's Secret of Success: "Grow antennae, not horns" From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Mon May 15 13:14:21 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:14:21 -0700 Subject: I need help....... Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2754@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Might as well poke my proboscis into this interesting thread. 1. Did somebody actually promote unregulated releases? I cannot remember such a thing. 2. Regulation of human activity falls outside the realm of science. This is normally done through social process (or by a dictator) and the resulting decision codified under the rule of law. Some of the information that goes into such decision making emanates from various sciences; heck, the social, political and behavioral scientists might even quibble with me and view social choice as a science; but if they did so then we should ensure that there is never any change in society and human behaviour so that the scientists will not have their studies marred. 3. Every organism that lives in metapopulations (and even those that do not) and which has encountered human activity has been impacted to a greater or lesser degree. Do painted ladies and monarchs fit any of the concept models for metapopulations ?? 4. Good question re infectious diseases in butterflies. Can anyone provide any information/research citations on this topic ??? I have not seen any information that would cause me to conclude that this is a "big problem"; maybe there is such information somewhere. At this time I can only view this as an "interesting consideration". 5. We will destroy most of the natural world (some would argue we already have) before we understand the roles of "various forms of DNA" in the multitude of organisms we share the world with. Paralysis by analysis, philosophical navel-gazing and endless statistically valid studies is a favorite tactic which appears on page 46 of my copy of the "Saboteurs Handbook" :-) -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Foley [mailto:patfoley at csus.edu] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 9:06 AM To: Bruce Walsh Cc: cherubini; leps-l Subject: Re: I need help....... Bruce and other leppers, Here is my short list of problems to solve before accepting scientifically unregulated butterfly release. 1) Let us first decide how many species we are willing to open to release. Every species that is released is a species harder to study scientifically with respect to phylogeography (John Avise's term for phylogenetic-geographic studies within the species or in the process of speciation). Pro-releasers often state that most releases are of monarchs and painted ladies, so this issue is small. Researchers into those species might not agree. The evolution of painted lady species around the world could be a great future revelation that I hate to give up. Several monarch researchers are already in print against unregulated release. But a case could be made that scientific research should not reserve all butterfly species for themselves. Where are releasers willing to draw the line? How many species? Which ones? If we can get past this problem, we reach the threat to the species or subspecies themselves. Here are some poorly solved problems that need better solutions before I could be happy with unregulated releases of butterflies. 2) How important is the natural metapopulation structure of the species for future evolution? Sewall Wright argued, and such researchers as Ernst Mayr, Stephen Jay Gould and Alan Templeton, agree that local, semi-isolated to isolated populations are critical to the production of new adaptive types because random genetic drift is easily overwhelmed by even a little migration for neutral alleles. However, strongly selected alleles should not mind a little migration. Moreover Barton, Coyne and Turelli argue that Wright's shifting balance theory and related speciational processes are not as important as local selection in the production of new types. The point here is that it is scientifically controversial whether isolation is critical to future evolution. 3) What is the geographic distribution of infectious diseases in butterflies and how critical is isolation to avoid endemic (enzootic if you must) and epidemic outbreak dangers? This is such a big problem, I will just let it sit there sunning itself. 4) What roles do various forms of (loosely-defined) selfish DNA play in butterfly species? Included here are any forms of DNA that might spread to the detriment of most of the genome, e. g. transposons, sexually selected runaway traits. Bruce is probably right to argue that a little unregulated release is usually safe for a species, and in fact can add to the useful genes subject to local selection. But the four issues raised above are not just quibbles, they go to the heart of our ignorance and our hopes to overcome it before we destroy most of the natural world on Earth. Perhaps, in view of our ignorance and past errors in the release of diseases and pests, some humility is warranted. Bruce Walsh wrote: > Pat writes: > > l > > 2) Bruce seems to assume that the burden of proof > > > should lie with on the anti-releasers. This is point of view would > not be held by > > > anyone working in biological control. > > There are two issues here. First, I fully agree that NONNATIVE species > should not be introduced (released) without the appropriate studies. > Perhaps I did not make this point clearly. > > However, my comments on releases is that I know of no evidence as to why > NATIVE species should not be released, especially if there are members of > the same panmixtic breeding population. Certainly painted ladies fall > into this category, and the evidence also strongly suggests that monarch may > as well. > > In this later category, the concern seems to be just what the "burden of > proof" is. Clearly, introducing a non-native species can disturb an > ecosystem--- there are LOTS of examples of this. However, are there examples > where low-level introduction of a species already present (albeit perhaps > from a slightly different population) has been shown to cause problems? > The population-genetic arguments of eroding the gene pool are incorrect and > simply reflect a poor understanding of the field. Hence, I think that > the anti-releases should suggest what protocol needs to be satisfied for > release. This is certainly sensible, as otherwise the fear would be that > after spending (say) $50,000 on a bunch of studies discounting a set of > concerns, the anti-releases will them simply add new items to the list. This > can go on forever. > > Hence, a reasonable approach would be to detail just what the concerns > are, and what studies would reduce these concerns. Again, the backdrop for > this is that there must be either reasonable theoretical and/or empirical > evidence for the concerns. I think this sets up the framework for a > reasoned discussion where the concerns of both sides can be addressed. > > Peace > > Bruce From alcaraz at bestia.xpress.es Mon May 15 14:51:19 2000 From: alcaraz at bestia.xpress.es (Antonio Juan Alcaraz) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:51:19 +0200 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <001401bfbe9e$a3fc62c0$0e32fea9@ix0353xpress> SUBSCRIBE LEPS-L Antonio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000515/d4b54cc9/attachment.html From Stelenes at aol.com Mon May 15 15:16:19 2000 From: Stelenes at aol.com (Stelenes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:16:19 EDT Subject: Xerces Blue Message-ID: <66.3a1e547.2651a703@aol.com> In a message dated 5/15/00 9:30:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Neil at NWJONES.DEMON.CO.UK writes: Actually the Xerces Blue existed in two forms as I understand it . tHe typical xerces form and the form antiacis. The latter had heavily black centred white spots. Does anyone know how this compares with the Palos Verdes Blue which is obviously a close relation? The Palos Verdes has more pronounced hindwing spots which sound just like this. For those used to latin the Palos Verdes Blue is Glaucopsyche lygdamus palosverdesensis. ****************************************************************************** ******** main host plant Palos Verdes Blue (palosverdensis): Astragalus leucopsis host plants Behr's Blue (incognitus): more varied, probably lots of lupines main host plant Xerces Blue (xerces): Lotus scoparius (??) Actually, the taxonomic comments made by Neil Jones regarding the less common xerces forms with black centers are not incorrect, I don't think an absolute determination as to spots is possible at this time or maybe ever. Haven't read the new Western Systematics books comment here but would speculate that the degree of black centers were caused by a cross breeding cline of Xerces with Behr's Blue. The fact remains that the white spotted form, ssp., species or whatever you wish to categorize as, is what is easy to point to as gone - extinct. The xerces specimens in the PG museum were especially hairy looking, though their age may have contributed to this impression as they were also somewhat faded looking. The huge white dots upon sight made them look quite unique, considering I never saw another Blue with no black inside the dots. I would further speculate that the three kinds of Blues being referred to above in the message more probably formed the advancing edge of their evolution and their forms were effected at least as strongly by the environments, environmentally differentiated behavior, and special aspects of foodplants they were found in as their genetics. I might not want black dots if I slept near the sand dunes and would welcome an all white-dot mutation. Regarding dot size? Who knows, but the white ones were definitely more remarkable for ID in flight....Too bad there are no more xerces around to do the behavioral experiments which could further the understanding of this complex. Perhaps Ms. Hammond can wait on this explanation until her students graduate into the second grade and if we need an extinct poster child butterfly, a holotype all-white dotted xerces is a good way to communicate what is extinct. Then again, perhaps this is all backwards and the white dots persist in the related type: pseudoxerces which apparently is still around somewhere. Any info on it would be appreciated. Best wishes Doug Dawn Woodland, CA ****************************************************************************** ********* > In article <391F441D.D654C41F at concentric.net> > birdcr at CONCENTRIC.NET "Randy Emmitt" writes: > > > Christie, > > > > Doug Dawn wrote: > > > > "The Xerces Blue is very easy to distinguish from > > the Silvery Blue which is a common name for the species argued to contain > > it. > > If you look at the upper wing it is hard to tell, but the lower surface > > were > > albino white dots instead of the black ones you see in this pic of the > > Silvery Blue" > > Actually the Xerces Blue existed in two forms as I understand it . > tHe typical xerces form and the form antiacis. The latter had heavily black > centred white spots. Does anyone know how this compares with the > Palos Verdes Blue which is obviously a close relation? The Palos Verdes > has more pronounced hindwing spots which sound just like this. > For those used to latin the Palos Verdes Blue is > Glaucopsyche lygdamus palosverdesensis. > > > > > > > I have photos from May 01, 2000 of our North Carolina species of Silvery > > Blue (Glaucopsyche lygdamus) after reading about the Ca. version I see > that > > ours is much more habitat restricted. The four I found all were by > > themselves many miles apart. All at high elevations in the mountians and > > very restricted to it`s host plants Carolina Vetch (Vicia caroliniana). > The > > photos I took of the three that let me photograph them may still be out > > there as it was only 13 days ago. Have a look at > > http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/blue_silvery01.htm > > > > Regards, > > > > Randy L Emmitt > > Rougemont, NC > > Butterflies Found In NC Online! > > http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html > > > > Paolo Mazzei wrote: > > > > > Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, > > > mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > It's me again. My class and I have so been enjoying the generous > > > responses that we have received to our questions. One of the things my > > > kids wanted to know about is the effect of extinct butterflies on the > > > ecosystem. I believe the Xerces Blue butterfly is the first butterfly > > > to become extinct in North America. I have been unablt to locate any > > > pictures or information regarding this butterfly or why it became > > > extinct. I thought I would send this inquiry to you and see what you or > > > your e-mail network came up with. We still have much work that we plan > > > to do but my class will be contacting you regarding the results of our > > > study. > > > > > > Again, thank you so much for your assistance with this project. > > > > > > Christie Hammond > > > > > > -- > Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ > "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the > butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog > National Nature Reserve > > From moth at ra.msstate.edu Mon May 15 16:06:21 2000 From: moth at ra.msstate.edu (Richard L. Brown) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:06:21 -0600 Subject: thorny moths Message-ID: I would like to obtain distributional data at the county level for the following species known to feed on thorny plants: Ceratomia hageni (on Maclura pomifera) Euerythra phasma (Bumelia) Catocala alabamae (Chickasaw plum, Hawthorn) Dichomeris citrifoliella (on Zanthoxylum as well as orange) Thanks to all who are willing to share their data. Richard L. Brown Mississippi Entomological Museum Box 9775 Mississippi State, MS 39762 phone: (662) 325-2085 fax: (662) 325-8837 e-mail: moth at ra.msstate.edu From patfoley at csus.edu Mon May 15 16:16:38 2000 From: patfoley at csus.edu (Patrick Foley) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:16:38 -0700 Subject: The population biology of buttefly release References: <200005151644.JAA12140@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <39205B26.B70F3FB2@csus.edu> Bruce and others, The measure you propose is a good broad-stroke measure of genetic differentiation over space. Low Fst species are plausible candidates for release. But don't set the bar too low. Local populations of smallish size or unknown genetic structure might make relatively little contribution to the species Fst and yet be worth preserving intact for all of worries 1 through 4. Would you release mainland North American Red Admirals (_Vanessa atalanta_) in Hawaii? Presumably not since they are not native there, and the native Hawaiian species (_Vanessa tameamea_ one of only two native butterflies!) is fully reproductively isolated from the Red Admiral. Or is it? And even if it is now, was it always? This is an extreme case, but consider that there are four species of _Vanessa_ in North America that arose despite the famous wandering tendencies of the clan and a presumably low Fst. Either this happened despite constant migration (supporting some level of uncontrolled release) or geographic isolation (or at least attenuation of gene flow) was required. We don't know! Even in a poorly differentiated species, the increase of disease flow can have disproportionate effects. In a highly differentiated population, the potential for catastrophe seems high. But we don't know! We still don't have a generally accepted theory that calculates the value of peripherally isolated and semi-isolated populations for the evolutionary potential, for disease resistance and for refuges against selfish DNA. Let's not smear a species before we know it. For the list as a whole, consider this hypothetical proposal that might come close to a consensus between Bruce and me. No butterfly species should be released in the wild without scientific reason until these criteria are met: a) The species must have low population genetic differentiation (the level of Fst to be worked out). Such data must be gathered and made publically available. By whom? Where? b) The butterfly can only be released in its studied range of low Fst. Some serious solution to the problem of geographically unsuitable releases must be developed before suitable releases are accepted because of the problems of poor education and malice. c) Some species of high long term scientific research may still be off limits. Which are these? d) The species considered for release need infectious disease monitoring. The cost of this should be borne by whom? Any other requirements? Or a complete rejection of the attempt at consensus? Patrick Foley patfoley at csus.edu Bruce Walsh wrote: > Pat: > > Let's try this for starters. Suppose the species of interest has a very > low Fst (for the general reader, Fst= fraction of genetic variation do to > between-, as opposed to within-, population differences), so that > essentially all of the variation is between individuals, rather than between > metapopulations. This implies that the population is really just a single > strongly-connected population, so that historical gene flow has been strong. > This negates your concerns 1-4, as levels of releases simply mimic the > natural population-wide exchange that has occurred historically. For such > species what are your concerns? > > The nice feature about the low Fst species that this is easy (and > cost-effective) to check. A rule allowing releases into areas where the Fst > values between source and release points are very close to zero seems > reasonable and a first step that perhaps both sides can agree on. > > Peace > > Bruce From Felix.Sperling at ualberta.ca Mon May 15 17:48:06 2000 From: Felix.Sperling at ualberta.ca (Felix Sperling) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:48:06 -0600 Subject: Xerces Blue In-Reply-To: <000101bfbde9$891eccf0$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> References: <000101bfbde9$891eccf0$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> Message-ID: Here's another source of information about California endangered insects: http://www.mip.berkeley.edu/essig/endins/endins.htm Check it out! It is part of the Essig Museum website at UC Berkeley and was constructed by Mike Caterino to help with enquiries like the one below. >Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, >mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: > >Hi, > >It's me again. My class and I have so been enjoying the generous >responses that we have received to our questions. One of the things my >kids wanted to know about is the effect of extinct butterflies on the >ecosystem. I believe the Xerces Blue butterfly is the first butterfly >to become extinct in North America. I have been unablt to locate any >pictures or information regarding this butterfly or why it became >extinct. I thought I would send this inquiry to you and see what you or >your e-mail network came up with. We still have much work that we plan >to do but my class will be contacting you regarding the results of our >study. > >Again, thank you so much for your assistance with this project. > >Christie Hammond From mjs323 at aol.com Mon May 15 18:24:49 2000 From: mjs323 at aol.com (MJS323) Date: 15 May 2000 22:24:49 GMT Subject: thorny moths References: Message-ID: <20000515182449.05663.00002802@ng-co1.aol.com> Richard; The county distribution for C. hageni would be available on Paul Opler's site for North American moths, available through the Lepidopterists Society website. The distribution for E. phasma, west of the Mississippi is availabe through the new "Distribution Maps of the Arctiidae" through Colorado State Univ. I don't know if Paul has that one on the North American Moths site yet or not. I can send you a copy of the Arctiid map if needed, via snail mail. The others might be available on the North American Moths site as well. Good luck. Mike Smith From birdcr at concentric.net Mon May 15 19:02:17 2000 From: birdcr at concentric.net (Randy Emmitt) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:02:17 -0400 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2753@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Message-ID: <392081F9.9609897C@concentric.net> Folks, For the record I`m not against collecting entirely. I feel it`s a good thing for museums, educational facilities and universities. I just don`t understand this kind of concept: " There is no substitute for voucher specimens; new records that are not substantiated by a good photograph, voucher specimen, or multiple qualified observers are generally not accepted as new records." A person that has seen a rare or fairly common bug either photographed or collected it numberous times should know and be qualified to take a record on a good sighting in the field by himself without taking a voucher specimen or photograph period! I find it appalling that in the year 2000 that a qualified person can`t be taken for his word on a simple thing as a new county record. As for " hand-wringing of the armchair doomsayers who spend little time in the field." I personally found 125 species in NC last year and had 200+ new county records including 29 species in one county in 1.5 hours with another qualified person. Also thus far this year I`ve seen nearly 90 species so far and had perhaps a 100+ new county records. I get out in the field and take notes and photographs 2-3 days a week. I also spend a lot of money with long trips, many many rolls of film purchased and developed, photographic equipment and a massive educational butterfly website with over 100 species of butterflies with live photos that educates people on how to ID and find live butterflies. So you see I`m not an armchair doomsayer by any means! As for my house removing habitat that seems funny because the way my landscape is set up it`s now actually improved habitat with 65 species of butterflies and 108 species of birds having been seen here there`s the proof. Leroy noted that we kill way more bugs with our cars and development and I agree with that it`s something we don`t have any control over. In the case of some of these rarities a long walk into a meadow or forest to find the suitable and fragmented habitat that is nowhere near cars or civilization a collection of a few specimens could endanger the entire colony. Get mad at me and call me names if you will, that`s just the way I see it. Randy L Emmitt Rougemont, NC Butterflies found In NC Online! http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" wrote: > Leroy, many thanks for sharing your knowledge of this butterfly and also for > caring enough to add to our collective knowledge of butterflies by spending > your valuable time and money to do so. I too have spent a small fortune > exploring the wonders of the natural world and finding out what lives where. > I have consistently found that the conventional wisdom as reflected in > publications and databases is not so wise after all; most organisms seem to > be more widespread than one would conclude from the hand-wringing of the > armchair doomsayers who spend little time in the field. It is sometimes > depressing to find that in human society there are those who insist on > criticizing people who add to our knowledge and would rather that we all > live by their personal opinion of what is moral and ethical. There is no > substitute for voucher specimens; new records that are not substantiated by > a good photograph, voucher specimen, or multiple qualified observers are > generally not accepted as new records. Despite the growing impediments to > biodiversity data collection that are perpetrated by do-gooders with > personal agendas; society needs more keen people out and about to see what > is really going on. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leptraps at aol.com [mailto:Leptraps at aol.com] > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:46 PM > To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > Subject: RE: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot > > Let me try another nickel worths: > > I can see that somebody does not like my collecting habits. I lived in the > mountains of Virginia from 1974 to 1982. Our home in Augusta County was set > deep in a heavily wooded area on 97 acres. Pyrgus centaureae wyandot would > visit the Pussy Toe's that bloomed in openings in the woods. I loved to > collect in the mountains of Virginia, especially in the spring. I never had > a > problem locating populations of Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. I only collect > few > specimens from each location for the record. I visited one area near > Blacksburg, Virginia in 1992 and found Pyrgus centaureae wyandot still > present and in good numbers. However, I was not looking for Pyrgus > centaureae > wyandot, I was searching for Erora laeta, which was also present. > > I spend lots of time in the field, and I take voucher specimens wherever I > go, for the record. My specimens are a natural history record. I never > understood the listing of Pyrgus centaureae wyandot, maybe some people need > to go look for it like I did. Either with a net (MY CHOICE) or a camera. > They > would be surprised at what they might find. > > And Mr. Emmit, I did report the vast majority of my records in the News of > the Southern Lepidopterists' Society and the Season Summary of the > Lepidopterists Society. I also gave the majority of my records to Dr. Opler > when he was working on the Butterflies East of the Great Plains. They were > in > the mountains of Virginia and North Carolina in the 1970s and 1980s, it was > still in the mountains when I left Virginia in 1983, and they were still > there in the 1990s, and I will bet they are still there now. I am not > attempting to be a smart ass, but who is out in the mountains looking for it > > now? I am just curious. > > The small number of specimens that I remove from nature is nothing when > compared to the number that a bulldozer blade will take out. A prime > example, > drive south down the Florida Turnpike from Palm Beach County, after you > enter > Broward County you will smell the Pompano Landfill before you see it. Look > to > the West, that was once 605 acres of Cypress Wetlands and Hard Wood Forest > of > sorts, a place where I collected and will soon be houses. How many > butterflies, moths, beetles, flies, rabbits, birds, snakes, mosquitoes, > cockroaches, etc., etc., were lost to this land clearing project. However, > once the houses are built there will be a need for pest control people to > get > whatever manages to survive. Now there's a viscous cycle! > > I live in Florida now, you would be surprised by what I have found since I > moved back hear in 1998! And yes, I still reported my collecting records in > the news of the Southern Lepidopterists' Society. > > Leroy C. Koehn > 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle > Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 > Hm: 561-966-1655 > Cell: 561-301-4215 > E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From Citheronia at aol.com Mon May 15 21:25:11 2000 From: Citheronia at aol.com (Citheronia at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:25:11 EDT Subject: Xerces Blue Message-ID: Hi all, I've heard from a number of sources that the Xerces Blue may indeed not be extinct afterall. I thought that if there was any truth to this, it would be brought up, but I haven't heard anything about it. Has anyone else heard this, and if so, is there any truth to it? It would be nice to know they're still around.... Randy From monarchsforever at email.msn.com Tue May 16 00:02:15 2000 From: monarchsforever at email.msn.com (monarchsforever) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:02:15 -0700 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2753@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> <392081F9.9609897C@concentric.net> Message-ID: <000b01bfbeeb$871bc7c0$293a0b3f@74nx4> We all have one of the best educational resources in the world, in your website. You should be very proud. Thank you, David Bohlken ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Emmitt To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 4:02 PM Subject: Re: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot > Folks, > > For the record I`m not against collecting entirely. I feel it`s a good thing for > museums, educational facilities and universities. I just don`t understand this > kind of concept: > " There is no substitute for voucher specimens; new records that are not > substantiated by > a good photograph, voucher specimen, or multiple qualified observers are > generally not accepted as new records." > > A person that has seen a rare or fairly common bug either photographed or > collected it numberous times should know and be qualified to take a record on a > good sighting in the field by himself without taking a voucher specimen or > photograph period! I find it appalling that in the year 2000 that a qualified > person can`t be taken for his word on a simple thing as a new county record. > > As for " hand-wringing of the armchair doomsayers who spend little time in the > field." I personally found 125 species in NC last year and had 200+ new county > records including 29 species in one county in 1.5 hours with another qualified > person. Also thus far this year I`ve seen nearly 90 species so far and had > perhaps a 100+ new county records. I get out in the field and take notes and > photographs 2-3 days a week. I also spend a lot of money with long trips, many > many rolls of film purchased and developed, photographic equipment and a > massive educational butterfly website with over 100 species of butterflies with > live photos that educates people on how to ID and find live butterflies. So you > see I`m not an armchair doomsayer by any means! > > As for my house removing habitat that seems funny because the way my landscape > is set up it`s now actually improved habitat with 65 species of butterflies and > 108 species of birds having been seen here there`s the proof. > > Leroy noted that we kill way more bugs with our cars and development and I agree > with that it`s something we don`t have any control over. In the case of some of > these rarities a long walk into a meadow or forest to find the suitable and > fragmented habitat that is nowhere near cars or civilization a collection of a > few specimens could endanger the entire colony. Get mad at me and call me names > if you will, that`s just the way I see it. > > Randy L Emmitt > Rougemont, NC > Butterflies found In NC Online! > http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html > > "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" wrote: > > > Leroy, many thanks for sharing your knowledge of this butterfly and also for > > caring enough to add to our collective knowledge of butterflies by spending > > your valuable time and money to do so. I too have spent a small fortune > > exploring the wonders of the natural world and finding out what lives where. > > I have consistently found that the conventional wisdom as reflected in > > publications and databases is not so wise after all; most organisms seem to > > be more widespread than one would conclude from the hand-wringing of the > > armchair doomsayers who spend little time in the field. It is sometimes > > depressing to find that in human society there are those who insist on > > criticizing people who add to our knowledge and would rather that we all > > live by their personal opinion of what is moral and ethical. There is no > > substitute for voucher specimens; new records that are not substantiated by > > a good photograph, voucher specimen, or multiple qualified observers are > > generally not accepted as new records. Despite the growing impediments to > > biodiversity data collection that are perpetrated by do-gooders with > > personal agendas; society needs more keen people out and about to see what > > is really going on. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Leptraps at aol.com [mailto:Leptraps at aol.com] > > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:46 PM > > To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > > Subject: RE: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot > > > > Let me try another nickel worths: > > > > I can see that somebody does not like my collecting habits. I lived in the > > mountains of Virginia from 1974 to 1982. Our home in Augusta County was set > > deep in a heavily wooded area on 97 acres. Pyrgus centaureae wyandot would > > visit the Pussy Toe's that bloomed in openings in the woods. I loved to > > collect in the mountains of Virginia, especially in the spring. I never had > > a > > problem locating populations of Pyrgus centaureae wyandot. I only collect > > few > > specimens from each location for the record. I visited one area near > > Blacksburg, Virginia in 1992 and found Pyrgus centaureae wyandot still > > present and in good numbers. However, I was not looking for Pyrgus > > centaureae > > wyandot, I was searching for Erora laeta, which was also present. > > > > I spend lots of time in the field, and I take voucher specimens wherever I > > go, for the record. My specimens are a natural history record. I never > > understood the listing of Pyrgus centaureae wyandot, maybe some people need > > to go look for it like I did. Either with a net (MY CHOICE) or a camera. > > They > > would be surprised at what they might find. > > > > And Mr. Emmit, I did report the vast majority of my records in the News of > > the Southern Lepidopterists' Society and the Season Summary of the > > Lepidopterists Society. I also gave the majority of my records to Dr. Opler > > when he was working on the Butterflies East of the Great Plains. They were > > in > > the mountains of Virginia and North Carolina in the 1970s and 1980s, it was > > still in the mountains when I left Virginia in 1983, and they were still > > there in the 1990s, and I will bet they are still there now. I am not > > attempting to be a smart ass, but who is out in the mountains looking for it > > > > now? I am just curious. > > > > The small number of specimens that I remove from nature is nothing when > > compared to the number that a bulldozer blade will take out. A prime > > example, > > drive south down the Florida Turnpike from Palm Beach County, after you > > enter > > Broward County you will smell the Pompano Landfill before you see it. Look > > to > > the West, that was once 605 acres of Cypress Wetlands and Hard Wood Forest > > of > > sorts, a place where I collected and will soon be houses. How many > > butterflies, moths, beetles, flies, rabbits, birds, snakes, mosquitoes, > > cockroaches, etc., etc., were lost to this land clearing project. However, > > once the houses are built there will be a need for pest control people to > > get > > whatever manages to survive. Now there's a viscous cycle! > > > > I live in Florida now, you would be surprised by what I have found since I > > moved back hear in 1998! And yes, I still reported my collecting records in > > the news of the Southern Lepidopterists' Society. > > > > Leroy C. Koehn > > 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle > > Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 > > Hm: 561-966-1655 > > Cell: 561-301-4215 > > E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com > From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon May 15 12:00:55 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:00:55 -0500 Subject: The population biology of buttefly release In-Reply-To: <39205B26.B70F3FB2@csus.edu> References: <200005151644.JAA12140@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000515110055.00906100@mail.utexas.edu> At 01:16 15/05/00 -0700, you wrote: >Bruce and others, > > The measure you propose is a good broad-stroke measure of genetic >differentiation over space. Low Fst species are plausible candidates for >release. But don't set the bar too low. Local populations of smallish size or >unknown genetic structure might make relatively little contribution to the >species Fst and yet be worth preserving intact for all of worries 1 through 4. > Would you release mainland North American Red Admirals (_Vanessa atalanta_) >in Hawaii? Presumably not since they are not native there, and the native >Hawaiian species (_Vanessa tameamea_ one of only two native butterflies!) is >fully reproductively isolated from the Red Admiral. Or is it? And even if it is >now, was it always? This is an extreme case, but consider that there are four >species of _Vanessa_ in North America that arose despite the famous wandering >tendencies of the clan and a presumably low Fst. Either this happened despite >constant migration (supporting some level of uncontrolled release) or geographic >isolation (or at least attenuation of gene flow) was required. We don't know! - - - - I don't think we even really know if *Vanessa atalanta rubria* of North America is conspecific with *V. atalanta atalanta* of Eurasia. In habitat from Hudsonia to Huasteca, and from Cumbria to Marakesh they sure have the feel of different species to my eye. Rearing tests should be done in confinement before any releases are attempted. This may be too late already, considering the several recent occurrences of *Aglais urticae* in New England and upstate New York, and the number of aircraft flights per day. ......Chris Durden From plauzolesp at bigvalley.net Mon May 15 22:52:38 2000 From: plauzolesp at bigvalley.net (Pierre A Plauzoles) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:52:38 -0700 Subject: Xerces Blue References: <000101bfbde9$891eccf0$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN>, <391F441D.D654C41F@concentric.net>, <958400092snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3920B7F6.986817AF@bigvalley.net> Neil Jones wrote: > In article <391F441D.D654C41F at concentric.net> > birdcr at CONCENTRIC.NET "Randy Emmitt" writes: > > > Christie, > > > > Doug Dawn wrote: > > > > "The Xerces Blue is very easy to distinguish from > > the Silvery Blue which is a common name for the species argued to contain > > it. > > If you look at the upper wing it is hard to tell, but the lower surface > > were > > albino white dots instead of the black ones you see in this pic of the > > Silvery Blue" > > Actually the Xerces Blue existed in two forms as I understand it . > tHe typical xerces form and the form antiacis. The latter had heavily black > centred white spots. Does anyone know how this compares with the > Palos Verdes Blue which is obviously a close relation? The Palos Verdes > has more pronounced hindwing spots which sound just like this. > For those used to latin the Palos Verdes Blue is > Glaucopsyche lygdamus palosverdesensis. The way I hear it, the Xerxes blue has been rediscovered Does anyone know who is doing what to rehabilitate its environment? Pierre A Plauzoles sphinxangelorum at bigfootcom > > > > > > I have photos from May 01, 2000 of our North Carolina species of Silvery > > Blue (Glaucopsyche lygdamus) after reading about the Ca. version I see that > > ours is much more habitat restricted. The four I found all were by > > themselves many miles apart. All at high elevations in the mountians and > > very restricted to it`s host plants Carolina Vetch (Vicia caroliniana). The > > photos I took of the three that let me photograph them may still be out > > there as it was only 13 days ago. Have a look at > > http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/blue_silvery01.htm > > > > Regards, > > > > Randy L Emmitt > > Rougemont, NC > > Butterflies Found In NC Online! > > http://www.rlephoto.com/butterflies/butterflies.html > > > > Paolo Mazzei wrote: > > > > > Christie L. Hammond (Lake Hills Elementary School, Bellevue, Washington, > > > mailto:Christie.Hammond at bsd405.com) wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > It's me again. My class and I have so been enjoying the generous > > > responses that we have received to our questions. One of the things my > > > kids wanted to know about is the effect of extinct butterflies on the > > > ecosystem. I believe the Xerces Blue butterfly is the first butterfly > > > to become extinct in North America. I have been unablt to locate any > > > pictures or information regarding this butterfly or why it became > > > extinct. I thought I would send this inquiry to you and see what you or > > > your e-mail network came up with. We still have much work that we plan > > > to do but my class will be contacting you regarding the results of our > > > study. > > > > > > Again, thank you so much for your assistance with this project. > > > > > > Christie Hammond > > > > > > -- > Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ > "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the > butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog > National Nature Reserve From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Tue May 16 00:49:22 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:49:22 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Message-ID: > For the record I`m not against collecting entirely. I feel it`s a good > thing for museums, educational facilities and universities. Not entirely? That's uncommonly kind of you... :-) But have you considered that the major source of input for museums and other institutions, especially in these days of diminishing funding, is the acquisition of private collections? That does mean that private collectors should take steps to donate their collections to major insti- tutions, rather than leaving them to be munched on by dermestids--but many collectors are already doing this, so that their work can live on and be of benefit to others. Note also that, as Eric Metzler has pointed out on this list, the state of Ohio has decided to allow the Ohio Lepidopterists to collect those species declared endangered by Ohio--because the information obtained is more valuable than the impact on those species. For various reasons (some of which are a mystery to me, and others of which I can guess at but disagree with) a number of people consider _collecting_ as a major threat to butterflies. (One hears less about moths, and even less about most other insects). Yet the number of documented cases where collecting per se has impacted species of butterflies (or moths) is very small indeed--and involves behavior on the part of the collector that all collectors I know would consider aberrant and unethical. The major threats to butterflies are habitat destruction (which nearly all of us contribute to one way or another), habitat degradation (global warming, pollution, etc.), and competition from introduced species. It is already illegal to collect endangered species. There are a number of reasons why collecting of those species that are legal to collect should be done. Butterfly taxonomy is not yet completed! It is now possible to obtain DNA from older specimens, which means that museum specimens have acquired added value. And so on... As I have mentioned many times before, some people object to collecting on moral grounds. Fine--then they need not collect. But the missionary spirit, attempting to spread one's version of morality to the entomological community, does not help matters. I do not feel threatened by butterfly watchers or photographers--in fact I have done both myself. But when someone tells me that I should not be collecting butterflies, when I am doing it legally (with stacks of permits) for what I consider valid reasons, I become uncooperative in the extreme. Has anyone yet changed their views pro or con on collecting from all the comments on Leps-L and Entomo-L? All I can see is people becoming more set in their ways, rather than less. Maybe if there were fewer attempts to convert the heathen, and more discussion of how both collectors and non-collectors can help obtain the information we need to understand butterfly taxonomy and butterfly conservation--we could accomplish more and generate less heat... Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From ecosys at pacbell.net Tue May 16 00:17:12 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:17:12 -0700 Subject: moth checklist References: <001001bfbaaa$5c7150c0$bb63f6cd@pjhimmel> Message-ID: <3920CBC8.B68B8DB5@pacbell.net> --------------213F9C617B72B4692792FC0A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe the site you want is the USGS Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center "Moths of North America" web site coordinated by Paul A. Opler. It is incredible! Follow the right path on this site and you can get a "county" moth list that is very impressive [including id photos and natural history information!], as I did for Santa Clara County, California, included below! "Moths of North America": http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/mothsusa.htm "Moths of Santa Clara County, California": http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/chklist/states/counties/ca_85.htm JH wrote: > I think I may have seen a site posted where there is a checklist of > the North American moths. Anyone out there know of it? Thanks > - John::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > John Himmelman > Killingworth, CT USA > jhimmel at connix.com > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Visit my websites at: > http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/booksandnature.html > http://homepage.av.com/ctamphibians/ctamphibians.html Info on Trinidad > & Tobago Tour, 10/00: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/SA.html > > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> --------------213F9C617B72B4692792FC0A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe the site you want is the USGS Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center "Moths of North America" web site coordinated by Paul A. Opler.   It is incredible!   Follow the right path on this site and you can get a "county" moth list that is very impressive [including id photos and natural history information!], as I did for Santa Clara County, California, included below!

"Moths of  North America":
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/mothsusa.htm

"Moths of Santa Clara County, California":
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/chklist/states/counties/ca_85.htm
 

JH wrote:

 I think I may have seen a site posted where there is a checklist of the North American moths.  Anyone out there know of it? Thanks - John:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
John Himmelman
Killingworth, CT USA
jhimmel at connix.com
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Visit my websites at:
http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/booksandnature.html
http://homepage.av.com/ctamphibians/ctamphibians.html Info on Trinidad & Tobago Tour, 10/00: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/SA.html
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--------------213F9C617B72B4692792FC0A-- From zagatti at versailles.inra.fr Tue May 16 05:06:04 2000 From: zagatti at versailles.inra.fr (Pierre Zagatti) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:06:04 +0200 Subject: Unidentified caterpillar References: <8f5urr$cr0$1@reader1.fr.uu.net>, <3917B6F1.FB1A404F@bigvalley.net> Message-ID: <39210F7C.F4AC8DA6@versailles.inra.fr> Salut les keums Back from Switzerland (Bern Convention - group of experts on Conservation of Invertebrates), I just saw this post, the Bois de Versailles is very close to my working place (less than 1 km) ! I'm not really a specialist of the noctuid fauna of the Palearctic, but Cosmia trapezina (le trap?ze en fran?ais) is a pretty common species here. The larva is occasionally carnivorous, and must be reared isolated. The main problem is that I'm not able to see more than the very top of the pictures ! Thus I cannot confirm the identity (by the way the best method to identify a larva is to rear it :-). Pierre A Plauzoles wrote: > CGH wrote: > > > I finded a Noctuidae caterpillar in France, in a forest near Paris > > (Versailles), a few day ago. > > It looks very agressive with others caterpillars (it killed one). > > It eat Castanea, Acer (Quercus ?) ... > > Could anyone indentify it, you can see photos to the address : > > http://www.triatel.com/lepido/inconnu/Noctu01.htm > > (Sorry for my english !) > > Pardonn?. > > Pierre Zagatti (Institut National de > la Recherche Agronomique, Versailles) est sans doute l'expert dans ce > domaine. Malgr? sa sp?cialit? (lepidopt?res, particuli?rement les > attacid?s/saturnid?s et les sphinxes de la r?gion de Martinique et la > Guadeloupe), je suis certain qu'il connait tr?s bien la faune de la > r?gion parisienne. Voir son site Web pour des d?tails sur les sphinxes > des Antilles: > > http://www.inra.fr/Internet/Produits/PAPILLON/sphingid/textfr/sphingid.htm > > Bonne chance. > > Pierre A Plauzoles > sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com -- Pierre ZAGATTI INRA Unite de Phytopharmacie et Mediateurs Chimiques 78026 Versailles Cedex FRANCE Tel: (33) 1 30 83 31 18 e-mail zagatti at versailles.inra.fr http://www.jouy.inra.fr/papillon/ http://www.jouy.inra.fr/papillon/arct_guy/arct_guy.htm From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Tue May 16 06:56:59 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 06:56:59 -0400 Subject: Private collections/museums In-Reply-To: Kenelm Philip "Re: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot" (May 15, 8:49pm) References: Message-ID: <1000516070101.ZM3766@Gochfeld> Ken's message (under the wyandot thread) reminds me of something which I posted a year or so ago, but seems timely. When I was in Malaya about six years ago, I learned that the largest "private" collection was being divided up and sold by the widow. It was a collection of substantial systematic and biogeographic value but I don't even know if institutions were informed or encouraged to bid for it or if they would have had the resources to compete with many who might have wanted just a few choice (but high-priced) specimens. I don't know the outcome of this, but it seemed extremely sad. So Ken's message that people should make arrangements to assure that their collections go to an appropriate museum really needs to be emphasized (perhaps collectors feel that it's bad luck to make such arrangements in advance---like not making out a will). And I suppose that some will-probates have had to deal with collections (I know they've dealt with stamp collections). (Read Paul Ehrlich's piece on why butterfly collecting shouldn't be like stamp collecting). Also, like a recent thread on releases, there are museums and there are museums. I recently visited a small wildlife refuge municipal museum that had received a donated collection of butterflies and had it out for exhibit (although it was totally irrelevant to the local fauna). So collections should go to research museums that have a reasonable possibility of curating them responsibly. And, while we're at it, photographers shouldn't get off the hook (nor those who keep detailed field notes). If photo records are being considered vouchers, arrangements should be made to see that they are appropriately archived an institutionalized. I believe the VIREO collection of bird pictures at the Philadelphia Academy, serves that role for birds. M. GOCHFELD Mike Gochfeld From simon at butterfly-guide.co.uk Tue May 16 08:03:11 2000 From: simon at butterfly-guide.co.uk (Simon Coombes) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:03:11 +0100 Subject: Fw: Cyprus - records please! Message-ID: <008701bfbf2f$16f9c8e0$85a726d4@newpc> Hi On behalf of several recorders I am maintaining detailed Distribution Maps on the 51 species found on the island and, along with Rob Parker, who wrote what is probably the definitive English language paper on this subject back in 1983 (Entomologist's Gazette Vol 34), I have a particular interest in Cyprus. At the end of last month, Amateur Entomologists' Society members were mailed a copy of a booklet, Butterflies of Cyprus, which I prepared following a 14 month stay on the island in 1997/8. (Copies will be obtainable through the AES and I will provide details shortly). My reason for preparing the paper was, in part, to update Rob Parker's sightings, which had been previously been extended by Dr Luc Manil in a booklet published (in French) by Linneana Belgica in 1990. In common with most books on European butterflies, the excellent 'Butterflies of Britain & Europe' by Tom Tolman covers many of the species found on Cyprus, but this is not by intention, as the text and maps extend no further east, in terms of Mediterranean islands, than Crete. Enquiries to the Natural History Museum by people requesting information on the species found in Cyprus, have recently yielded copies of Rob Parker's 1983 paper, a paper by Turner (1920) and a very out-of-date paper by Bucknill, published in 1911. With two endemics and seven sub-species, additional help is necessary, as I found during my stay. Even locating a current checklist of species found on the island is difficult and I have been unable to locate any reasonably detailed English language paper since that written by Rob Parker. Another reason to provide an update. Rob Parker and I will be happy to provide future visitors to Cyprus with further information and would welcome details of sightings, past, present or future. I can provide a map of the island to enable a simple recording system to be followed. Should anyone be interested in providing records, please contact me. Recorders will be acknowledged in any future update of the booklet. Thanks Eddie John Eddie at grayling.dircon.co.uk From zagatti at versailles.inra.fr Tue May 16 09:27:01 2000 From: zagatti at versailles.inra.fr (Pierre Zagatti) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:27:01 +0200 Subject: G.isabellae References: <8f9hfc02p8@enews3.newsguy.com> Message-ID: <39214CA5.221D6EAC@versailles.inra.fr> Mikey wrote: > I need some info on the mating behaviour of Graellsia isabellae.I would like > to know what time of night they pair,how long they stay coupled, and any > other > bits of info on this moth. > Thanks The data I present here concern the French Isabel Moth, Actias (Graellsia) isabelae galliaegloria (note the spelling emendation). The behaviour and feeding habits of Spanish subspecies might be different. It is drawn from an unpublished report we did for the french Ministry of Environment. Mating occurs at dusk and may last 2 hours, depending on the temperature. It should be noted here that mating is very difficult to obtain in captivity. Even if copulation is observed, most eggs never hatch and it's not possible to obtain more than one generation in captivity. The only way to have a 'permanent rearing' of this species is to pair tethered laboratory reared females with wild males in the field, as rangers of the National Park of the Ecrins do. We tested several Pinus species/cultivars (+++ is the best for both larval survival and pupal weight) : Pinus sylvestris +++ Pinus contorta + Pinus uncinata + Pinus nigra laricio - Pinus banksiana - Pinus nigra salzmanni -- Pinus nigra austriaca -- Pinus nigra jeffreyi --- However a few clones of Scots pine (P. sylvestris) were evaluated as --- for the French Isabel Moth. There is a strong correlation between the 'feeding value' for Graellsia and the 'feeding value' for Diprion pini (the pine sawfly). -- Pierre ZAGATTI INRA Unite de Phytopharmacie et Mediateurs Chimiques 78026 Versailles Cedex FRANCE Tel: (33) 1 30 83 31 18 e-mail zagatti at versailles.inra.fr http://www.jouy.inra.fr/papillon/ http://www.jouy.inra.fr/papillon/arct_guy/arct_guy.htm From jmason at ink.org Tue May 16 11:26:50 2000 From: jmason at ink.org (Jim Mason) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:26:50 -0500 Subject: moths & light References: <200005151701.NAA10007@dr-who.daltonstate.edu> Message-ID: <00a201bfbf4b$2dc682e0$c49ec9a5@wp.state.ks.us> Curiouser and curiouser! I confess to being more confused than enlightened by the responses to date. Here is another take from the Straight Dope web site: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a890127.html This refers to some 20+ year old research (by Dr. Hsiao). Has this been revised or significantly challenged since then? Jim Mason, Naturalist jmason at ink.org (316) 683-5499 x103 Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th St. N. Wichita, KS 67220-2200 http://www.gpnc.org ----------------------------------------------- Dear Cecil: The other day one of my professors asked why moths were attracted to light. Someone thought it might be because they thought it was the moon. But even granting that moths might not be bright enough to tell a porch light and a celestial body apart, why should they be interested in the moon? Please, Cecil, this may be worth extra credit to me. --Shannon, Montreal Dear Shannon: Always glad to help Straight Dopesters with their homework, ma petite. You going to let me have the gold star? For many years it was thought the moon did have something to do with the attraction of moths to light. The so-called light-compass theory held that moths used the moon as a navigational beacon. By keeping it at a constant angle to their direction of travel, they were supposedly able to fly in a straight line. The trouble came when the moths made their sightings from a close-up light source like a candle flame. Instead of heading in a straight line, they flew around the flame in an ever-narrowing spiral until finally, phhhht, moth flambe. But this theory had more holes in it than a moth-eaten sweater. The main problem was that moths simply don't fly around lights in spirals. This was shown by the ingenious bug researcher Henry Hsiao. He tethered moths to little styrofoam boats in a tiny artificial pond--I love guys like this--and tracked their flight as they headed toward a light source. He found the moths flew more or less straight at the light until they got up close, at which point they veered off and circled around it at a more or less constant distance. They seldom actually touched the light. A number of other theories have also been discredited. Some claim that, to the moth, bright lights mean open space and open space means safety. But moths are nocturnal, and the night sky has no light sources anywhere near as bright as a porch light. Besides, why should the moth feel compelled to fly around the light in circles? Others argue that moths associate light with warmth. Yet ultraviolet lamps, which are much cooler than incandescent bulbs, attract more moths. Henry Hsiao to the rescue. He said moths exhibit two kinds of behavior. When they're distant from a light source (they're drawn to light from as far as 200 feet away), they make a beeline straight toward it. Why, nobody knows. Maybe they've tumbled to the fact that lights mean people, and people mean: wool sweaters! On an even more basic level, a light means: other moths! Par-TY! However. When the moths get close to the light, a different kind of behavior takes over. Instead of being attracted to the light, the moth is actually trying to avoid the light. When you think about it, this is only natural. To a creature of the night like a moth, daylight and by extension any bright light means danger. The moth doesn't fly directly away from the light due to a peculiarity of vision called a Mach band. A Mach band, which apparently is common to all sighted creatures, is the region surrounding a bright light that seems darker than any other part of the sky. Hsiao conjectured that the moth's atom-sized brain figures the darkest part of the sky is safest. So it circles the light in the Mach band region, usually at a radius of about one foot, depending on the species. Eventually either its momentum carries it away or it finds a dark corner to hole up in. In short, moths like some light, but not too much. Hey, at some point in our lives we're all attracted to those bright porch lights. But that doesn't necessarily you'd want to live above a singles bar. From JADAMS at em.daltonstate.edu Tue May 16 11:45:28 2000 From: JADAMS at em.daltonstate.edu (DR. JAMES ADAMS) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:45:28 -0400 Subject: GA lep records Message-ID: <200005161541.LAA11293@dr-who.daltonstate.edu> Dear listers, I'm requesting information for an upcoming website on the lepidoptera of Georgia (mainly macro moths in this iteration; but it hopefully will eventually cover most taxa). I am, at this point, *not* particularly interested in records for common species that are expected to occur statewide. I am more interested in generally uncommon species or special habitat species records (coastal plain, NE mountains, cane areas, etc.) at this time, mostly to make sure that as much of the diversity of the state as possible is covered. I have some information from the Okeefenokee area from specimens deposited in the Smithsonian that I have already surveyed. However, please feel free to send any information that you think may be of interest. I will reserve the right to ask to see specimens of any records that seem to me to be quite unusual. THanks!! james Dr. James K. Adams Dept. of Natural Science and Math Dalton State College 213 N. College Drive Dalton, GA 30720 Phone: (706)272-4427; fax: (706)272-2533 U of Michigan's President James Angell's Secret of Success: "Grow antennae, not horns" From HPAThom at worldnet.att.net Tue May 16 12:51:42 2000 From: HPAThom at worldnet.att.net (Hollis Thomas) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:51:42 GMT Subject: lep article--Nabokov Message-ID: 16 May '00 Just logged on to this NG recently so no doubt have missed alot. By now everybody knows aabout the article on Nabokov in the April '00 Atlantic Monthly mag., but just in case I'll put this notice on the line.A good article, parts orginally in Russian, translated by his son. Allen Thomas Asheville NC From simon at butterfly-guide.co.uk Tue May 16 13:50:34 2000 From: simon at butterfly-guide.co.uk (Simon Coombes) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:50:34 +0100 Subject: Picos de Europa Message-ID: <000801bfbf5f$3e086880$4bae26d4@newpc> Hi My parents are spending ten days or so touring the Picos in Northern Spain in about a fortnights time. They are butterfly enthusiasts and were wondering if anyone had any local knowledge, of good sites for Butterflies in Mid May. Thanks if you can help Simon Simon Coombes 1 Park Street Stoke Plymouth PL3 4BL UK Tel 01752 607854 Email: simon at butterfly-guide.co.uk Web: Captain's European Butterfly guide http://www.butterfly-guide.co.uk Currently featuring over 150 species. From scholtensb at cofc.edu Tue May 16 11:28:32 2000 From: scholtensb at cofc.edu (Brian Scholtens) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:28:32 +0000 Subject: Nabokov book Message-ID: <39216920.744E@cofc.edu> Dear listers, I realize that not all members of this list are members of the Lepidopterists' Society, but this is the obvious place to put in a plug for the Society. There has been a recent flurry of publishing activity about Nabokov. One additional book has just been published - "Nabokov's Butterflies". This is compendium of unpublished and uncollected writings, many dealing with his interest in and travels searching for butterflies. Dmitri Nabokov has translated writings from Russian and the volume is edited and annotated by Brian Boyd and Robert Michael Pyle. It is a beautiful book, with large number of illustrations, including original drawings by Nabokov and photos of specimens collected by Nabokov. This book is available commercially for $45. The Lepidopterists' Society is able to offer this book to members (current and any new members) for $35 plus $3.50 shipping. Any members that are interested in this offer or others that wish to join the society and take advantage of the offer can send payment by check (payable to Lepidopterists' Society) to: Brian Scholtens 710 New Market Dr. Mt. Pleasant, SC 29464 If you wish to join the society I'll gladly accept your membership payment and forward it to the treasurer. Current dues are $45/year. You can also send dues to: Kelly Richers, Assistant Treasurer The Lepidopterists' Society 9417 Carvalho Court Bakersfield, CA 93311 Hope everyone has a wonderful summer enjoying lepidoptera. Brian Scholtens Biology Dept. College of Charleston Charleston, SC 29424 scholtensb at cofc.edu From anneevans at canada.com Tue May 16 16:47:36 2000 From: anneevans at canada.com (anneevans at canada.com) Date: 16 May 2000 13:47:36 -0700 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Message-ID: <20000516204736.6120.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000516/5444991d/attachment.pl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Tue May 16 17:16:55 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:16:55 -0700 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2773@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Here we go again. OK, I will rise to the bait :-) It is patently incorrect to assume or state the generalization that collectors target specific things and imply that they only target rare species. Utter nonsense, enough to gag a maggot. Maybe there are 'bad' collectors if one wants to take a moralistic view of this topic. But if so then one might as well speculate that there are bad watchers and bad photographers and bad non-collectors etc ad nauseum. Kinda funny how this perception of villainous collectors wiping things out keeps surfacing. Those of you who believe this drivel; please provide some evidence that this is a real issue or consider the possibility that this is a fable used by some to sermonize and try to impose their view of moral rectitude on the rest of us. Reputations and facts are frequently different things but it seems to be human nature to believe whatever one wishes without doing much info gathering. Much easier to just have perceptions and sling mud at people with different interests. Reminds me of the mind set that perpetrated the Inquisition in Europe or the Salem witch trails etc; perish the thought that in contemporary society we would tolerate any kind of difference in how other people chose to enjoy butterflies. That's my rant until next time :-) PS. Yes, I even eat at McDonald's, heaven forbid ! -- and even enjoy watching the Epargyreus clarus as I munch. -----Original Message----- From: anneevans at canada.com [mailto:anneevans at canada.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 1:48 PM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Mark Walker Wrote: > Yep - overcollecting happens each time you drive your > car up into the backroads > of NC to take your pictures. Oh come on!. This simply isn't right. A collector targets specific things unless you drive a super intelligent car it doesn't just drive at the rare butterflies. I'm sure something must have been wiped out by bad collectors. Not that they are all bad. > It also happens every time they bulldoze another > empty lot that is paid for by your contributions to > >McDonalds, Sears, Chevron, > and Blockbuster Video. Well. I won't eat at McDonalds. I care about my health and they have a terrible reputation for trashing rainforests. __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com From rcjohnsen at aol.com Tue May 16 17:11:19 2000 From: rcjohnsen at aol.com (Rcjohnsen) Date: 16 May 2000 21:11:19 GMT Subject: Metamorphosis in lepidoptera... References: Message-ID: <20000516171119.08587.00003084@ng-fp1.aol.com> << Subject: Metamorphosis in lepidoptera... From: "Saleel Majeed" saleel at -NOSPAM-ntlworld.com Date: Mon, May 15, 2000 8:57 AM Message-id: Hello; In my biology syllabus, the following paragraphs come up: ----- METAMORPHOSIS AS ILLUSTRATED BY THE LIFE CYCLE OF A LEPIDOPTEROUS INSECT This section should reflect change in protein and energy requirements associated with growth in the larva and reproduction and dispersal in the adult. Associated changes in food, mouthparts and gut enzymes. ----- Now, unfortunately, none of the three biology textbooks I have cover this. And my teacher also doesnt have much info on this topic. I was wondering if anyone knows any information on this which they can share with me - especially re: the "gut enzymes" part. Or, if anyone knows any webistes which cover this, then please let me know. >> There are pages of web sites about (complete insect metamorphosis) Go to the Alta Vista search engines at http://members.xoom.com/ecotao/agric/search.htm and in the Savvy-metasearch box type the parenthetical words and press return.. You can do other searches using other key word and select your poison.. Roger From jshuey at tnc.org Tue May 16 17:16:10 2000 From: jshuey at tnc.org (John Shuey) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:16:10 -0500 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot References: Message-ID: <3921BA9A.CF3C3073@tnc.org> If you want a great example of why collecting still plays a role in butterfly monitoring, try to find the undescribed species at the web page that started this all. http://www.rlephoto.com An amazingly distinct and undescribed species, apparently endemic to North Carolina, lurks mis-identified in the photos of this site. Photographs NEVER let you dissect genitalia. -- John Shuey From SUNSOL at prodigy.net Tue May 16 17:30:07 2000 From: SUNSOL at prodigy.net (Sunsol) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:30:07 -0700 Subject: Butterfly Class Message-ID: <8fsep8$1fss$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> I though somebody out there might be interested in this. Adult School Class Butterfly Biology: Mating to Metamorphosis Tues 7/11 and Tues 7/18 Sir Francis Drake High School in San Anselmo, Calif. Two 1.5 hour lectures illustrated with stunning slides and video. call 415/945-3730 or visit www.marinlearn.com and click on Nature/Animal behavior. Sally From MWalker at gensym.com Tue May 16 19:19:27 2000 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 19:19:27 -0400 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> anneevans at canada.com wrote: > > Mark Walker Wrote: > > Yep - overcollecting happens each time you drive your > car > up into the backroads > > of NC to take your pictures. > > Oh come on!. This simply isn't right. A collector targets > specific things unless you drive a > super intelligent car it doesn't just drive at the rare > butterflies. > I'm sure something must have been wiped out > by bad collectors. Not that they are all bad. > > > It also happens every time they bulldoze another > > empty lot that is paid for by your contributions to > > >McDonalds, Sears, Chevron, > > and Blockbuster Video. > > Well. I won't eat at McDonalds. I care about my health > and they have a terrible reputation for trashing rainforests. The point is simple: whether you like to admit it or not, you are daily contributing to the elimination of butterfly habitat - which is the predominant reason that certain leps are disappearing. I don't like hypocritical finger pointing. I selectively collect and kill insects - I know where to find them, and I know the difference between what I should collect and what I should not collect. If I find things I should not collect in places where I didn't expect them, then that is good news for all of us. If I look for things I expect and don't find them, that is also pertinent information that should be shared. The voucher specimens that I take home are not in any way detrimental to existing populations. If they were, I would be the first to know - no one else would have to tell me - and I would not collect them. I'm sure there are bad collectors - greedy collectors. I'm not sure they are as prevalent as the media has come to represent them. But as long as there is a market for something, human nature has proven to exploit it. Personally, I make no money on Leps - so as far as I'm concerned, I'm not a suspect. Mark Walker. From spruance at infinet.com Tue May 16 20:05:00 2000 From: spruance at infinet.com (Eric or Pat Metzler) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 20:05:00 -0400 Subject: thorny moths References: , <20000515182449.05663.00002802@ng-co1.aol.com> Message-ID: <3921e327$0$73587@news.voyager.net> C. hageni occurs in all Ohio counties in the SW quarter of the state. It also occurs in counties that are adjacent to the counties in the SW quarter of the state. Do you want actual records, or just the distribution? The above description, easy to outline on a map of Ohio (virtually a square state) will quickly provide the distribution in this state. Hope this helps. Eric Metzler Columbus OH "MJS323" wrote in message news:20000515182449.05663.00002802 at ng-co1.aol.com... > Richard; > The county distribution for C. hageni would be available on Paul Opler's > site for North American moths, available through the Lepidopterists Society > website. The distribution for E. phasma, west of the Mississippi is availabe > through the new "Distribution Maps of the Arctiidae" through Colorado State > Univ. I don't know if Paul has that one on the North American Moths site yet > or not. I can send you a copy of the Arctiid map if needed, via snail mail. > The others might be available on the North American Moths site as well. Good > luck. > > Mike Smith From burnbank at sympatico.ca Tue May 16 22:59:30 2000 From: burnbank at sympatico.ca (Don Lafontaine) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:59:30 -0400 Subject: Grammia versus Apantesis Message-ID: <39220B12.E45A340E@sympatico.ca> For those keeping track of which three arctiids from the Hodges 1983 list remained in Apantesis after most of them were put in Grammia in Doug Ferguson's Arctiini generic revision, I listed Apantesis phyllira as one of the three that remained. I should have listed phalerata as the Apantesis, phyllira was moved to Grammia. Dr. James Adams caught the goof; others must not have been paying attention! Don Lafontaine From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Tue May 16 12:18:10 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:18:10 -0500 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot In-Reply-To: <20000516204736.6120.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000516111810.007f3660@mail.utexas.edu> The only butterfly population I have heard of that was allegedly wiped out by a "bad" collector was an artificial colony of *Araschnia levana* - MAP BUTTERFLY that had been started in Britain, outside the modern range of that species. The "bad" collector was a purist who did not want an introduction of an alien species. As I recall this successful extermination was reported in E. B. Ford's "Butterflies". .......Chris Durden At 01:47 16/05/00 -0700, you wrote: >I'm sure something must have been wiped out >by bad collectors. Not that they are all bad. > > > >__________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com > > From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Tue May 16 13:46:42 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:46:42 -0500 Subject: California Sister in Travis Co. In-Reply-To: <3a.53571ba.265367c8@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000516124642.00913cc0@mail.utexas.edu> At 11:11 16/05/00 EDT, you wrote: > Can someone please tell if Limenitis, & Adelpha, are being used >interchangeably in this discussion ?? Or if not, please site a reference >where I may look up Limenitis bredowii. > Thanks, DP > > > Carpenter & Hobby (about 1940) in Transactions of the Royal Entomological Society of London Vol.94, No. 2, around p. 322. Revised *Limenitis bredowii*. They show that it is a good *Limenitis*, closer to *L. populi* the type species of the genus than are the other North American *Limenitis (Subgenus Basilarchia)* spp. They show that *L. bredowii* is not congeneric with *Adelpha* spp. They show that *Adelpha* is closer to *Parthenos*. According to Corbet, Pendlebury & Eliot, 1978 (Butterflies of the Malay Peninsula), *Parthenos* is in tribe PARTHENINI, while *Limenitis* is in tribe LIMENITIDINI. There is no excuse for continuing the combination *Adelpha bredowii*. Carpenter & Hobby review and give characters for all the taxa closely related to *Limenitis bredowii* including *L. californica*. It is the most distinct of all the races they assign to *L. bredowii*. In my opinion it is specifically distinct, not only in characters, but also in ecological tolerance. .......Chris Durden From jfhanlon at mediaone.net Wed May 17 02:41:25 2000 From: jfhanlon at mediaone.net (James Hanlon) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:41:25 -0700 Subject: Columbus, OH Message-ID: Dear Leps-L members: I am going to be in Columbus, Ohio next week. Will Luna moths be flying this early in the year? Does anyone know of a good location to set-up a DC-charged black-light and white sheet via the car battery in the Columbus area? Will a DC black light suffice? or should I be using a mercury vapor light instead? I am not particularly excited about lugging a generator through the airport, although I hear the Honda EX-350 is pretty light. (Cost to rent a generator?). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Jim Probably easiest to go back in mid June and visit a well lit tennis court. From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Wed May 17 08:02:23 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:02:23 -0400 Subject: extinction by collecting In-Reply-To: "Chris J. Durden" "Re: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot" (May 16, 11:18am) References: <3.0.5.32.20000516111810.007f3660@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <1000517080226.ZM3662@Gochfeld> It is widely believed that Mitchell's Satyr was eliminated from its last known New Jersey location by collecting. As the species got rarer the collecting pressure increased. It was not listed as endangered until years later. Whether you accept that collecting was the only straw or the last straw (natural local extinctions happen), it is ironic that a species has to become really rare before the regulatory system is allow to protect it. But in this case the fen habitat still exists (several fens in fact). It's possible that the species still exists, but it has not been found (or at least admitted to) by anyone. M. Gochfeld From kriegelr at pilot.msu.edu Wed May 17 09:55:35 2000 From: kriegelr at pilot.msu.edu (Robert Kriegel) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:55:35 -0400 Subject: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000517095535.00907c70@pilot.msu.edu> I know that there are list participants out there who have more information on the truth-or-urban-legend of the statement below. > It is widely believed that Mitchell's Satyr was eliminated from its last > known New Jersey location by collecting. Other than a presumed increase in collecting pressure, what evidence is there that the last population was eliminated by collectors? Folks, this one is worth airing out. This extinction event has been referred to in Nature Conservancy literature and in National Geographic magazine. It is the most widely cited case in North America for the extinction of a butterfly population by collectors. I have heard strong opinions on both sides of the argument about this event. What I have not heard is evidence! Bob Kriegel From spruance at infinet.com Wed May 17 09:32:09 2000 From: spruance at infinet.com (Eric or Pat Metzler) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:32:09 -0400 Subject: Columbus, OH References: Message-ID: <3922a057$0$8661@news.voyager.net> Jim, Luna moths are on the wing. A bl running all night might be sufficient -they tend to come to light after midnight. MV is better, but don't lug around a generator just for luna moths. I'm not sure of your definition of "in the Columbus area." You'll generally have a drive a bit to get into the woods to get them, or have a permit for woods closer to the city - probably a bit late to get a permit. All members of The Ohio Lepidopterists have a blanket permit for Ohio's Wildlife Areas. Give me a call now, or when you arrive, and we can talk more about this, and of course other leps. Best wishes, Eric Metzler Columbus OH spruance at infinet.com "James Hanlon" wrote in message news:NDBBJNGICLLFMAAELOENGEPECCAA.jfhanlon at mediaone.net... > Dear Leps-L members: > > I am going to be in Columbus, Ohio next week. Will Luna moths be flying this > early in the year? > Does anyone know of a good location to set-up a DC-charged black-light and > white sheet via the car battery in the Columbus area? > > Will a DC black light suffice? or should I be using a mercury vapor light > instead? I am not particularly excited about lugging a generator through the > airport, although I hear the Honda EX-350 is pretty light. (Cost to rent a > generator?). > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Jim > > Probably easiest to go back in mid June and visit a well lit tennis court. > > From MWalker at gensym.com Wed May 17 10:45:58 2000 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:45:58 -0400 Subject: extinction by collecting Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DD@hqmail.gensym.com> Michael Gochfeld wrote: > It is widely believed that Mitchell's Satyr was eliminated > from its last > known New Jersey location by collecting. As the species got > rarer the > collecting pressure increased. It was not listed as endangered until > years later. Whether you accept that collecting was the only > straw or > the last straw (natural local extinctions happen), it is > ironic that a > species has to become really rare before the regulatory > system is allow > to protect it. > > But in this case the fen habitat still exists (several fens > in fact). > It's possible that the species still exists, but it has not > been found > (or at least admitted to) by anyone. I appreciate Michael's insights on Mitchell's Satyr. Nevertheless, it is worth considering the fact that collecting data is often the only way we know about the health of a population. It stands to reason that the last remaining data on a species that disappears came from a collector - leaving the door open for false conclusions. On the other hand, I will acknowledge the attraction of collecting specimens of species that are unique or hard to find. This becomes even more problematic when there is a commercial value associated with the species. This sort of combination begins to become potentially detrimental to isolated species of concern. Still - and certainly this is true for the Mitchell's Satyr - the original problem was created by a loss of habitat. The fact that the butterfly has disappeared before all of the existing habitat has disappeared is not surprising. As has been discussed in a related thread, little islands of habitat are often not sufficient for sustaining healthy populations. As obnoxious as it is to consider a collector sneaking into an isolated pine barren or fen to collect a species of concern, the species might not be a concern if it were not for irresponsible development practices. If we are genuinely interested in keeping our invertebrate friends around for our grandchildren to enjoy, then we need to ensure proper habitat management and preservation. We do not need to point fingers that associate blame on foaming-at-the-mouth collectors. Mark Walker. From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Wed May 17 10:13:23 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Wed, 17 May 00 14:13:23 GMT Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot References: <20000516204736.6120.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net>, <3.0.5.32.20000516111810.007f3660@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <958572803snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <3.0.5.32.20000516111810.007f3660 at mail.utexas.edu> drdn at mail.utexas.edu "Chris J. Durden" writes: There is an example of an unique race of lepidopteron that was exterpated by "human predation". The New Forest Burnet Moth Zygaena viciae ytenensis was wiped out in the 1920's in the UK. (It has been discussed before look in the archive.) The demise of this creature was predicted by the collectors of the day because of heavy commercial collecting. Currently in the UK there is another race of this species ssp. argylensis which occurs at one single site in Scotland. It was for many years confined to single figures and found on only one little cliff ledge a few metres square! It has now, thanks to proper habitat management recolonised the rest of the site and is doing quite well. It could easily have been extirpated by any increase in predation by any species. > The only butterfly population I have heard of that was allegedly wiped out > by a "bad" collector was an artificial colony of *Araschnia levana* - MAP > BUTTERFLY that had been started in Britain, outside the modern range of > that species. The "bad" collector was a purist who did not want an > introduction of an alien species. As I recall this successful extermination > was reported in E. B. Ford's "Butterflies". > .......Chris Durden > > At 01:47 16/05/00 -0700, you wrote: > > >I'm sure something must have been wiped out > >by bad collectors. Not that they are all bad. > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com > > > > > > -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Wed May 17 09:10:54 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Wed, 17 May 00 13:10:54 GMT Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <958569054snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB at hqmail.gensym.com> MWalker at gensym.com "Mark Walker" writes: > anneevans at canada.com wrote: > > > > > > Mark Walker Wrote: > > > Yep - overcollecting happens each time you drive your > car > > up into the backroads > > > of NC to take your pictures. > > > > Oh come on!. This simply isn't right. A collector targets > > specific things unless you drive a > > super intelligent car it doesn't just drive at the rare > > butterflies. > > I'm sure something must have been wiped out > > by bad collectors. Not that they are all bad. > > > > > It also happens every time they bulldoze another > > > empty lot that is paid for by your contributions to > > > >McDonalds, Sears, Chevron, > > > and Blockbuster Video. > > > > Well. I won't eat at McDonalds. I care about my health > > and they have a terrible reputation for trashing rainforests. > > The point is simple: whether you like to admit it or not, you are daily > contributing to the elimination of butterfly habitat - which is the > predominant reason that certain leps are disappearing. I don't like > hypocritical finger pointing. Before I say anything let me start with my standard dislaimer on these matters. I don't want to see collecting banned! No Mark, the point is not that simple. The matter being talked about is the collecting of a RARE SPECIES. Now I don't want to get into the argument about whether a particular instance of collecting is right or wrong but you were giving the old " you kill more butterflies with the windshield of your car argument" Frankly, it doesn't hold water. If you are going to argue from a moral point of view, for example, the question of intent comes into it. If a person is driving safely with a properly maintained car etc. and a child runs out and is knocked down and killed the person is not charged with murder. Some people think killing insects is wrong in itself. I DO NOT! However predating rare species BY CHOICE is not an acceptable behaviour to me. > I selectively collect and kill insects - I know where to find them, and I > know the difference between what I should collect and what I should not > collect. If I find things I should not collect in places where I didn't > expect them, then that is good news for all of us. If I look for things I > expect and don't find them, that is also pertinent information that should > be shared. The voucher specimens that I take home are not in any way > detrimental to existing populations. If they were, I would be the first to > know - no one else would have to tell me - and I would not collect them. Yes Mark, you are a responsible caring person who understands the need for conservation. That is obvious. I do not maintain a collection of butterflies. I do occasionally kill insect specimens to study them get them identified etc. I do not want my study banned, but I am deeply worried when the study of insects is defended by arguments that are so transparently false. This "windshields" argument does a great disservice to entomology. People do target the rare. They target the rare photograph and the rare experience. I as a photographer have photographs of the Palos Verdes Blue and the Quino and Bay Checkerspots. You will know just how rare these are. As for our lifestyles causing the distruction of habitat. Well of course there are social factors. The strange thing is that eating "Muckburgers":-) or having a video player etc. does not necessarily help in making people happy. I don't eat at burger bars since I want to stay healthy as a matter of personal choice. I don't have a video player either or a car. (I used to have a car but now I find I can save the expense.) The fact is that we can have a good happy lifestyle and save the environment. > I'm sure there are bad collectors - greedy collectors. I'm not sure they > are as prevalent as the media has come to represent them. But as long as > there is a market for something, human nature has proven to exploit it. > Personally, I make no money on Leps - so as far as I'm concerned, I'm not a > suspect. > > Mark Walker. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu Wed May 17 10:56:32 2000 From: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu (Bruce Walsh) Date: 17 May 00 07:56:32 -0700 Subject: Bloomington, IN Message-ID: <200005171453.HAA22778@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Lepers: I'll be on the University of Indiana campus (for the Evolution Society meetings) from June 22-27th. Any locals that wish to get together for collecting/blacking please drop me a line. Also, suggestions for local sites are always welcome. Cheers Bruce Bruce Walsh Associate Professor (Associate Editor, Genetics) Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Biosciences West University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 USA email: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu Office: 520 621-1915 Fax (Departmental) 520 621 9190 home page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu" Quantitative Genetics page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zbook/book.html" Arizona Moths page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/mothlist.html" Arizona butterflies page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/seazlist.html" From aa6g at aa6g.org Wed May 17 12:32:09 2000 From: aa6g at aa6g.org (Chuck Vaughn) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:32:09 -0800 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <3922C981.122C6DA8@aa6g.org> List, Habitat destruction is a popular topic on this list and certainly a serious problem. Besides lepidoptera, a seemingly completely different interest of mine is weather satellite reception. With the recent high profile fire in Los Alamos the discussion on a weather satellite list turned to the creation of false color images that highlight fires. Recently I created one of these to see the Los Alamos fire. Part of this included a good portion of Mexico. I'm not a satellite interpretation expert but there appeared to be hundreds of fires burning in the western Sierra Madre of Mexico. A couple dozen showed obvious smoke plumes. You may download the image and view it if you like. ftp://shell3.ba.best.com/web2/aa6g/mexico.jpg (400KB) Maybe there are a few on this list familiar with Mexico. What is going on down there? This looks like habitat destruction on a mass scale. Images of the western U.S. and Canada show no such fire activity....except for those in N.M and AZ.....and there are only a few red dots. To help in your interpretation of this false colorimage, red is anything that is warm. Red land does not mean it's on fire, only red dots I presume to be fires. Green highlights vegetation. Blue is water and also highlights smoke and haze. Cyan is clouds. Is the Monarch overwintering site in this image? If not I can probably get one that shows it. Chuck Vaughn From jshuey at tnc.org Wed May 17 10:21:39 2000 From: jshuey at tnc.org (John Shuey) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:21:39 -0500 Subject: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors References: Message-ID: <3922AAF3.5FA1F00@tnc.org> Bob Kriegel asks a hard question below. I'll provide as much information as I can, and then let you decide. If you want the short answer, my bottom line is that I don't know. kriegelr at PILOT.MSU.EDU wrote: > I know that there are list participants out there who have more information > on the truth-or-urban-legend of the statement below. > > > It is widely believed that Mitchell's Satyr was eliminated from its last > > known New Jersey location by collecting. The evidence that led people (and by people I mean Dale Schwietzer, at the time a TNC employee) to believe that collecting played a role is as follows. 1. Dale visited one of the three sites himself on perhaps the last year it was recorded from the fen. He never saw a mitchell's satyr at the site, but did find a glassine envelope laying on the trail, indicating that a butterfly collector had proceeded him to the site. 2. The collector (some New York City MD., now deceased) that really knew about two, possibly three sites really did collect the hell out of the population. One needs only visit the American Museum of Natural History to see the several drawers of specimens collected from these small populations in just a few short years. Several hundred specimens in total. The data on the specimens are purposefully cryptic, such that you can't really tell where they were collected from (hence the confusion of how many sites there really were). The other thing you notice when you look at the data, is that this guy collected the site 3-4 times a week during the 2-week flight period. And when you look at the quality of specimens, you get the impression that he bagged every specimen he encountered (there are lots of complete rags in the series). If ever there was a collector who typified the stereotype bad stamp collector mentality, this guy was probably it. So that was the evidence at the time - circumstantial to say the least. Confusing the issue is the condition of the two know sites (based on conversations I've had with New Jersey Heritage staff). Both fens are highly degraded, suffering from invasion of red maple (either fire or beaver likely played a role in maintaining the open nature of the habitat). This degradation was well underway when Mitchell's satyr was declining. Today, these fens don't seem likely to be able to support the butterfly, based on habitat size alone (unless someone has been managing them since I had these discussions a few years back). Hence, it seems likely that habitat dynamics alone could have been responsible for the ultimate decline of the butterfly. > > > Other than a presumed increase in collecting pressure, what evidence is > there that the last population was eliminated by collectors? Now I want to confuse the issue further, based on some recent work on Mitchell's satyr in SW Michigan. A). Based on two years of mark-release-recapture data at two sites, here is what we know about population structure relative to these issues. A) Populations at these sites were fairly small, somewhere between 200-300 total adults. B) With daily effort, we were able to capture around 50% of the population each year. C) Fecundity is apparently pretty low, with most females laying 5-10 eggs per day over about a five to seven day period. There is no initial large batch of eggs produced from what we can tell. D) vagility is very low - most females move less than 50 meters during their life span. So, if you factor in this information, it does seem likely that you could, over the coarse of a several year effort, cause a serious decline in small populations of this species. For example, if we had been killing females instead of writing numbers on their tushes, I bet we would have knocked our study populations down by about 50% over the two years. But now, I'll confuse the issue even further. Two sites in Michigan have take the brunt of collecting over the decades, Wakelee Bog and Liberty Fen (both now partially owned and managed by the Conservancy). Both support very vigorous populations. In the case of Liberty, the population did decline noticeably in the mid 80's, but has now recovered. At Wakelee, the population has always seemed very robust (likely much larger than the populations were we did the MRR work). This despite a long and glorious history of collectors driving from all over the country to collect these two sites. Now and interesting aside: the southern subspecies, Neonympha mitchellii francisci, was emergency listed because of the threat from collectors. This species was described by Parshall and Krall, two collectors who are of the classic long series mind set (as in the longer the better). Remember, Krall was one of the three collectors later convicted for violating several federal laws regarding endangered species and collecting in protected areas. Hence, when North Carolina heritage staff visited the only know population site (type locality) and could not find it, they naturally assumed that it had been collected out of existence. (keep in mind that heritage staff have long been under the influence of Dale Schwietzer's opinions, and hence were already aware that New Jersey populations had been "collected to extinction"). So the story started (as part of the emergency listing) and persisted (I still see it kicked around, most disturbingly in the recovery plan for this subspecies) that North Carolina populations were collected to extinction. As it turns out, this was all a big screw-up. The map to the type locality (provided by the authors) was bogus. Of course the butterfly population at the site was "extinct". Once folks finally figured out where the type locality really was, they found the butterfly. But the story still persists as urban legend. As it turns out, the exact spot where the butterfly was originally discovered has indeed gone temporarily extinct (the habitat has shrubbed over). But the real population persists in the impact range of Fort Bragg, apparently healthy and thriving in the habitat maintained by a steady procession of bomb-induced wild fires. The repercussions of all of this persist to this day. A small set of populations have recently been discovered in another east-coast state. The perceived threat of collectors is so great that almost nothing is known in the general conservation community about the sites (for example, just yesterday I was talking to the guy working on Mitchell's satyr at Ft. Bragg, he heard that the new populations were in the mountains, I had heard that they were in the piedmont - and we are both heavily involved in conserving this species!) > > Folks, this one is worth airing out. This extinction event has been > referred to in Nature Conservancy literature and in National Geographic > magazine. It is the most widely cited case in North America for the > extinction of a butterfly population by collectors. I have heard strong > opinions on both sides of the argument about this event. What I have not > heard is evidence! > > Bob Kriegel The bottom line is this, as a TNC employee, it almost killed me when I saw us printing this "factoid" in our national publication (this goes out to over a million members). National Geographic hits even more folks - and both are supposed to be pretty authoritative. I think that the evidence is way to shaky to say with certainty that the story is fact. On the other hand, if ever there was a convergence of factors ranging from a susceptible species to a collector who could actually put the hurt on a population, New Jersey is it. So, years into pondering all the evidence I've come to the conclusion that there really isn't a clean answer to this issue. -- John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy phone: 317-923-7547 fax: 317-923-7582 email: Jshuey at tnc.org From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Wed May 17 11:36:42 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:36:42 -0700 Subject: Extirpation/reintroduction Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2779@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> With larger animals there are examples where time and money has been/is being spent to reintroduce species to parts of their range where they have been extirpated in the past. A present day example is the Swift Fox on the Canadian prairie (well, whats left of it anyway). I seem to even vaguely recall some efforts along these lines with the Karner Blue. I would welcome information on this topic for butterflies; and especially any good news examples where this has been successful. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Tue May 16 23:06:20 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:06:20 -0500 Subject: extinction by collecting In-Reply-To: <1000517080226.ZM3662@Gochfeld> References: <"Chris J. Durden" <3.0.5.32.20000516111810.007f3660@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000516220620.00907bd0@mail.utexas.edu> Hey, let's keep looking. Collectors are not all that smart. Possible survivors may have a boom year yet, and be noticed. Do you have a list of years when it was vouchered or observed. ....Chris Durden At 08:02 17/05/00 -0400, you wrote: >It is widely believed that Mitchell's Satyr was eliminated from its last >known New Jersey location by collecting. As the species got rarer the >collecting pressure increased. It was not listed as endangered until >years later. Whether you accept that collecting was the only straw or >the last straw (natural local extinctions happen), it is ironic that a >species has to become really rare before the regulatory system is allow >to protect it. > >But in this case the fen habitat still exists (several fens in fact). >It's possible that the species still exists, but it has not been found >(or at least admitted to) by anyone. > >M. Gochfeld > > From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Wed May 17 01:09:48 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:09:48 -0500 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico In-Reply-To: <3922C981.122C6DA8@aa6g.org> References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> At 08:32 17/05/00 -0800, you wrote: >List, > >Habitat destruction is a popular topic on this list and certainly a >serious problem. Besides lepidoptera, a seemingly completely different >interest of mine is weather satellite reception. With the recent high >profile fire in Los Alamos the discussion on a weather satellite list >turned to the creation of false color images that highlight fires. > >Recently I created one of these to see the Los Alamos fire. Part of >this included a good portion of Mexico. I'm not a satellite interpretation >expert but there appeared to be hundreds of fires burning in the western >Sierra Madre of Mexico. A couple dozen showed obvious smoke plumes. >You may download the image and view it if you like. > >ftp://shell3.ba.best.com/web2/aa6g/mexico.jpg (400KB) > >Maybe there are a few on this list familiar with Mexico. What is going >on down there? This looks like habitat destruction on a mass scale. Images >of the western U.S. and Canada show no such fire activity....except for >those in N.M and AZ.....and there are only a few red dots. > >To help in your interpretation of this false colorimage, red is anything >that is warm. Red land does not mean it's on fire, only red dots I presume >to be fires. Green highlights vegetation. Blue is water and also highlights >smoke and haze. Cyan is clouds. > >Is the Monarch overwintering site in this image? If not I can probably get >one that shows it. > >Chuck Vaughn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fantastic image of Sinaloa and parts of adjacent states! A sorry sight. See also the maps at - http://fms.nofc.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/mexico/index.html choose - Mapas actuales, then tipo de incendio Chuck, This is the legacy of the PRI Ehido Program which resettled many thousands of tropical farmers to the "despoblado" of northern Mexico. These farmers came from a culture where the burning of forest to generate ash, to fertilize land. to grow corn for 2 or 3 years, is the norm. The classic slash and burn agriculture which works effectively for slow growing human populations in ecological balance with a fast growing tropical forest. The problems here are 1} the fast growing number of people trying to grow corn, in 2) slow growing montane forest, temperate forest, and desert riparian woodland. This has been going on for more than 40 years, but the pace has picked up logarithmically as the increased smoke load in our SE US sky and measurement of acid rainfall at Big Bend National Park has shown in the last few years. Yes we are concerned. The world will lose undescribed species from these mountains. Air pollution will get worse in parts of the US. Our rainfall in the Eastern US will decline as the evaporative properties of the vegetation of the Sierra Madre decline. These are good people doing the burning. We as scientists can do little other than report what is going on. Maybe the Union of Concerned Scientists can help us. Attempts to change current deleterious practices are a matter of autonomous national law and administration in Mexico. Perhaps some persuasion can be applied by international lawyers in the frame of NAFTA or the World Trade Organization. As far as the US is concerned we must rely upon the State Department to further our interests. .......Chris Durden From kriegelr at msu.edu Wed May 17 14:59:56 2000 From: kriegelr at msu.edu (Robert Kriegel) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:59:56 -0400 Subject: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000517145956.00a00670@pilot.msu.edu> John, Thank you for that excellent summary of the situation with N. mitchellii. I had previously heard parts of the story, but never all the details. I see that it is certainly possible that the species was eliminated from the New Jersey site(s) by collectors. I also see that this is a question that will be almost impossible to resolve definitively. As John indicated the two well known sites for this butterfly in Michigan have a long, well documented history. Michigan Lepdioptera Survey data indicate that the Wakelee fen site was most heavily collected in the 1930s and again in the 1970s. The first records from the Liberty fen site date from 1974. Substantial collecting did occur at Liberty fen during the late 1970s and early 1980s. Our records for this species at these sites essentially ends with its state and federal listing a decade ago. Since that time we have a single voucher photograph from 1998. Two or three years ago Michigan Natural Features Inventory conducted a substantial survey for this species in Michigan and reportedly discovered several new populations. Unfortunately, most of the field work for their survey was conducted by non-lepidopterists (and non-entomologists) and not a single voucher photograph was taken. When the time came to include their data in our database we were unable to accept it because their identifications could not be verified by an independent expert. I am not advocating that they should have taken specimens. My point is that if the work is important enough to do, do it right. If it is not appropriate to take specimen vouchers, take the time to get voucher photographs. I have serious concerns about visual observations [without supporting photographs] ending up in print and being treated as vouchers. My favorite example comes from a butterfly watcher's account in a regional birding magazine. The observation was for an elfin (Incisalia henrici) that would have been a Michigan county record. The observer saw the butterfly for a very short period of time at a distance through binoculars and stated that 'it was of typical elfin size and typical elfin shape'; therefore, it must be Henry's elfin. They were disappointed when we would not accept the record. This account could very well (and probably will) be included in another dataset that does not require vouchers and find its way into a larger project that where this record will be taken as fact and interpreted as a range extension. This is not a fabricated example. I expect to see it both in print and on the web within a few months. Bob Kriegel From paul.bryan at dtn.ntl.com Wed May 17 13:24:28 2000 From: paul.bryan at dtn.ntl.com (Paul Bryan) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:24:28 +0100 Subject: Spanish moths Message-ID: <3922D5CC.A30E5BE1@dtn.ntl.com> I have a friend who has started trapping on the Southern coast of Spain.He can find no literature on the moths of southern Europe.Will he be getting African migrants and is there a text written.? From cherubini at mindspring.com Wed May 17 07:54:18 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:54:18 +0000 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3922886A.19E7@mindspring.com> Chris J. Durden wrote: > Fantastic image of Sinaloa and parts of adjacent states! A sorry sight. Does anyone here remember learning in their college Plant Ecology classes that prior to the arrival of european man, most of western North America burned roughly every 7-10 years? Paul Cherubini, Placerville, Calif. From ewilliam at hamilton.edu Wed May 17 14:54:40 2000 From: ewilliam at hamilton.edu (Ernest Williams) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:54:40 -0400 Subject: leps in French Message-ID: French-speaking LEPS-L folks, Two days ago I gave talks about leps to thirty-six 11- and 12-year olds from Paris who are staying in my town (upstate New York, USA) for 3 weeks of cultural exchange. No, they didn't have to rely on my poor high school French; the kids speak varying degrees of English, and several teachers were with them to help translate. Some questions arose, however, from our conversations. 1. Are moths always referred to as "les papillons de nuit"? That brought about some confusion when I said some papillons de nuit are active during the day. 2. Is "chenille" a general term for any caterpillar, or are there additional terms? 3. What is the French word for pupa? The kids all understood "cocoon", but the teachers from Paris had no idea what a pupa is, while the American teachers of French (who've heard me before) know what a pupa is but have no French word for it. 4. What is the French word for wing scales? Thanks (oops, I mean merci), Ernest Williams From radioguy101 at netzero.net Sat May 13 17:53:59 2000 From: radioguy101 at netzero.net (C. Steer) Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 17:53:59 -0400 Subject: unidentified butterfly References: <391AB304.EABF1E51@tnc.org>, <391B1F70.2B1F7777@eohsi.rutgers.edu>, <391B4C24.5097F0AA@snip.net> Message-ID: <391DCEF7.992F16B2@netzero.net> Hi all: I live in Philly, (PA) not far from a park. The numbers of different butterflies that come every year to my yard in the city blows me away. I keep a running record of this on my web page at: www.qsl.net/wa3iac/butterfly Just today, I cough an under wing moth in the grass. Sincerely, Chuck ciprit wrote: > > Based on appearance alone (based on my field guide), I would have to agree with Common > Checkered Skipper or Grizzled Skipper. Keeping in mind I could not get a close look, I > would say the pic. of the Grizzled Skipper is closer. Definitely NOT the Pearly > Crescentspot. Could either of the other species have landed on grass for water?--as I > mentioned I had just watered my lawn. (Sorry if that is a silly question, I'm just a > butterfly observer, not a lepidopterist.) > Thanks to all, > Christina > > > I agree with the way Chris and John have provided clues that the > > Philadelphia Mystery Story does not star wyandot. However, I had the > > same impression about Checkered Skipper that John voiced about Grizzled > > Skipper, namely that it is a tiny grayish, mothlike blur, and even when > > I know that it is what I am looking for where I am looking for it, it > > has to perch before I can identify it. Therefore. Moreover, at least > > in NJ, I would never have thought of P.communis as being brownish. It > > is grayish to blu-ish. So my suggestion still is a Crescent---after all > > one of the commonest yard butterflies at this season. > > > > MIKE GOCHFELD > > =========================================================== > > John Shuey wrote: > > > > > > Piecing clues together to say that this UFO is not Pyrgus centaurea wyandot: > > > > > > > "Chris J. Durden" wrote: > > > > > > > > > My first thought was *Pyrgus (Scelothrix) "centaureae" wyandot* - the > > > > > WYANDOT GRIZZLED SKIPPER. Do you have any of its foodplant - the > > > > > yellow-flowered strawberry-like *Waldsteinia fragarioides*. This species > > > > > can be locally common in midwest Maryland, northern New Jersey, and on Long > > > > > Island, in spring. > > > > > .......Chris Durden > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > I have what I think is wild strawberry with yellow flowers on my lawn--forgot to > > > > mention that in my first post. I can't seem to find the Wyandot Grizzled > > > > Skipper in my Audobon Field Guide. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clue 1 - most eastern populations (with the exception of Michigan) are not > > > associated with wild strawberry - but the similar appearing Dwarf Cinquefoil , > > > Potentilla canadensis. > > > > > > Clue 2. Pyrgus wyandot is very rare in the east, and is not a yard butterfly > > > (Unless your yard is surrounded by natural barrens habitats maybe). > > > > > > > > > > > > >> In Philadelphia on Sun., May 7 at very approximately 2PM , I saw a > > > > > >> little (maybe 1-11/2" wingspan) butterfly on my lawn. It was brownish > > > > > >> and whitish (maybe some other color, too) with a kind of checkered > > > > > >> pattern. I couldn't get a very close look at it. Every time I tried to > > > > > >> lean near it, it went fluttering through the grass and also landed it > > > > > >> some wet dirt (puddling?). I had just watered some of my plants. > > > > > > Clue 3 - and this is a big one - no one who has ever seen P. wyandot in flight would > > > say that it "fluttered through the grass". Wyandot in flight is a complete blur, > > > wings are almost invisible, and it move so fast that its hard to follow visually for > > > more than a few seconds. > > > > > > -- > > > John Shuey -- Sincerely, Chuck Steer e-mail: wa3iac at juno.com www.qsl.net/wa3iac/ FAX: 1-505-215-0069 From Stelenes at aol.com Wed May 17 15:36:29 2000 From: Stelenes at aol.com (Stelenes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:36:29 EDT Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico Message-ID: <84.55f4edb.26544ebd@aol.com> In a message dated 5/17/00 12:05:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cherubini at mindspring.com writes: > Chris J. Durden wrote: > > > Fantastic image of Sinaloa and parts of adjacent states! A sorry sight. > > Does anyone here remember learning in their college Plant Ecology classes > that > prior to the arrival of european man, most of western North America burned > roughly every 7-10 years? > > Paul Cherubini, Placerville, Calif. Paul is right. Yesterday I was out botanizing a spot rich in lilies and orchids here near Sacramento CA. It had burnt a year earlier. It had the best diversity in general for wildflowers in my area I've seen. If people didn't have transportation to get out of the way of the fires perhaps a better balance would be established. And after the fires, without our native trees for starters, the alien invasive plant species can have a 'field' day. Luckily not too much it the spot of yesterday. In Monterrey, Northern Mexico, about 2 years ago, a good % of the pine-oak mountain forests were set on fire probably for political motives. It was an environmental catastrophe which rained ashes all over my home for days. Mexico actually asked the US for help (proof of severity). The recovery there is far more questionable, it is an increasilgly so uncommon habitat. Sprawl is terrible, smog getting worse, the root cause, and zoning laws are not as strict as most places. As a matter of fact the area is getting to look like a brand new US more and more every day. Doug Dawn Woodland CA From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Wed May 17 15:39:53 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:39:53 -0700 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F277D@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Yes indeed. Pyromaniacs (or even hungry people) running rampant with matches is not all that 'natural' but certainly the reality of natural disturbance ecology and especially the historical role of wildfire in many North American ecosystems is now widely recognized in the field of resource management. Easiest way to destroy the native butterflies, and other organisms, on a south facing mountain slope in this part of the world is to protect it by putting it in a park or some such thing. Sit back and watch how natural succession gradually creates a depauperate and different ecosystem and see how the original inhabitants disappear despite the absence of evil collectors and the presence of so much well-intentioned protection. Ecosystems are naturally dynamic and varied through space and time; while we humanoids are hell-bent on homogenizing and stabilizing; no small wonder that things go extinct. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Cherubini [mailto:cherubini at mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 4:54 AM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Subject: Re: Habitat Destruction in Mexico Chris J. Durden wrote: > Fantastic image of Sinaloa and parts of adjacent states! A sorry sight. Does anyone here remember learning in their college Plant Ecology classes that prior to the arrival of european man, most of western North America burned roughly every 7-10 years? Paul Cherubini, Placerville, Calif. From moth at ra.msstate.edu Wed May 17 16:32:45 2000 From: moth at ra.msstate.edu (Richard L. Brown) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:32:45 -0600 Subject: leps in French Message-ID: >1. Are moths always referred to as "les papillons de nuit"? This is term used in Casell's French Dictionary.....however, the Spanish equivalent "mariposas de la noche" means something quite different - at least in Chile and perhaps other countries. Richard L. Brown Mississippi Entomological Museum Box 9775 Mississippi State, MS 39762 phone: (662) 325-2085 fax: (662) 325-8837 e-mail: moth at ra.msstate.edu From iant at care4free.net Wed May 17 17:27:14 2000 From: iant at care4free.net (Ian Thirlwell) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 23:27:14 +0200 Subject: leps in French References: Message-ID: <8fv6du$fdl$1@lure.pipex.net> Ernest Williams wrote in message news:l03130305b548969d89d2@[150.209.97.55]... > French-speaking LEPS-L folks, > > Two days ago I gave talks about leps to thirty-six 11- and 12-year olds > from Paris who are staying in my town (upstate New York, USA) for 3 weeks > of cultural exchange. No, they didn't have to rely on my poor high school > French; the kids speak varying degrees of English, and several teachers > were with them to help translate. Some questions arose, however, from our > conversations. > > 1. Are moths always referred to as "les papillons de nuit"? That brought > about some confusion when I said some papillons de nuit are active during > the day. > > 2. Is "chenille" a general term for any caterpillar, or are there > additional terms? > > 3. What is the French word for pupa? The kids all understood "cocoon", but > the teachers from Paris had no idea what a pupa is, while the American > teachers of French (who've heard me before) know what a pupa is but have no > French word for it. > > 4. What is the French word for wing scales? > > Thanks (oops, I mean merci), > Ernest Williams > > 1. Strictly speaking "papillon" is used for both butterflies and moths with no systematic-linguistic distinction. In English you could use lep(idopter) in the same way perhaps, in which case "papillon de nuit" might translate as "night flying lep". A night flying lep active during the day would therefore sound illogical in French. 2. Only "larve" for "larva" I think. 3. Pupa is "pupe" or "chrysalide" (the latter = chrysalis). 4. Well wings are "ailes" and scales are "?cailles" (e with acute accent). To quote from an old Petit Larousse definition of "papillon" it has "quatres ailes couvertes d'?cailles fines comme la poussi?re..." (e with grave accent) Ian From Chris at 2ablackstreet.freeserve.co.uk Wed May 17 20:01:40 2000 From: Chris at 2ablackstreet.freeserve.co.uk (Chris Kirby) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:01:40 +0100 Subject: Cynthia cardui in UK References: Message-ID: <8fvbvu$l2j$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> I found my earliest ever Painted Lady on 15 May 2000 at Martham in Norfolk - in fact my first ever in May. From cherubini at mindspring.com Wed May 17 14:35:32 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:35:32 +0000 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3922C981.122C6DA8@aa6g.org> Message-ID: <3922E674.342D@mindspring.com> Chuck Vaughn wrote: > Maybe there are a few on this list familiar with Mexico. What is going > on down there? This looks like habitat destruction on a mass scale. Images > of the western U.S. and Canada show no such fire activity....except for > those in N.M and AZ.....and there are only a few red dots. > Is the Monarch overwintering site in this image? If not I can probably get > one that shows it. What is the URL to access these spectacular images Chuck? The fires in the Sierra Madre Occidentale do not look too alarming to me. I see some of them every time I fly over these mountains on my way to Mexico City from California. The fires appear to burn for days or weeks out of control yet do not leave behind vast stretches of blackness as one might imagine. Perhaps they are not crown fires. In reality, the fir and pine forests of those mountains are in a much more pristine state than our own western USA forests according to my uncle who once lived in those mountains with the native Tahumara people. The monarch sanctuaries are hundreds of miles to the southeast of the fires in the state of Michoacan. I would be grateful,Chuck, if you could tell us how we can access these spectacular photos of other areas of Mexico such as Michoacan. Paul Cherubini From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Wed May 17 22:03:19 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:03:19 -0400 Subject: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors In-Reply-To: John Shuey "Re: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors" (May 17, 9:21am) References: <3922AAF3.5FA1F00@tnc.org> Message-ID: <1000517220332.ZM3670@Gochfeld> As usualy, John has brought great clarity to an historically murky situation (even when purporting to "confuse the issue further"). I've gotten leads on collectors who were in the field with the purported "terminator" and will see if I can add some additional information (if only more circumstantial), by way of documenting the demise of the species. The last known NJ site, the "Johnsonburg Bog" (technically a fen), was visited by a number of collectors and butterfly watchers during the mid and late 80's. After a number of unsuccessful attempts to find the species at this last known locality, it was presumed "extirpated". We'll see what I can learn about subsequent attempts to track it down. A disturbing feature of John's posting is that both the New Jersey and North Carolina collectors, deliberately misrepresented collecting information (sites? dates?) which certainly undermines the scientific value of collecting. Unscrupulous collectors are not unique to butterflies. The history of bird collecting has some choice stories about labels falsified to encourage a patron to pay a higher price (I recall mentioning this on the list a year or so ago). Gene Eisenmann, Neotropical bird expert of the AMNH, pointed out that many of the Olalla specimens from Brazil were deliberately mislabelled (they would collect on one side of a river and then label part of their catch as coming from the other side of the river, thereby vitiating studies of whether wide Amazonian basin rivers formed species boundaries. I think it important to remind people that whether collecting is "good" or "bad" or whether collectors are "good" or "bad", or how many of the latter there may be in our midst, are separate questions from "whether or not a species or a population CAN be collected out of existence. A species with high fecundity, high vagility, broad habitat tolerance, and large initial populations sizes is not a model for a relict species with small populations, low fecundity, restricted range, and short flight period. Despite time-honored beliefs, it would have been relatively easy with multiple visits each year over a period of a few years, to eliminate the Satyr species (or at least reduce it to a low level where random events led to its extinction). M. Gochfeld From llecerf at videotron.ca Wed May 17 22:34:56 2000 From: llecerf at videotron.ca (llecerf at videotron.ca) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 02:34:56 GMT Subject: leps in French References: Message-ID: <8fvksf$o8n$1@nnrp1.deja.com> In article , ewilliam at hamilton.edu wrote: > French-speaking LEPS-L folks, > > Two days ago I gave talks about leps to thirty-six 11- and 12-year olds > from Paris who are staying in my town (upstate New York, USA) for 3 weeks > of cultural exchange. No, they didn't have to rely on my poor high school > French; the kids speak varying degrees of English, and several teachers > were with them to help translate. Some questions arose, however, from our > conversations. > > 1. Are moths always referred to as "les papillons de nuit"? That brought > about some confusion when I said some papillons de nuit are active during > the day. > > 2. Is "chenille" a general term for any caterpillar, or are there > additional terms? > > 3. What is the French word for pupa? The kids all understood "cocoon", but > the teachers from Paris had no idea what a pupa is, while the American > teachers of French (who've heard me before) know what a pupa is but have no > French word for it. > > 4. What is the French word for wing scales? > > Thanks (oops, I mean merci), > Ernest Williams > > Bonjour ! Yes "papillon de nuit" is the french translation of "moth". There is another french term "mite" that is not use at large. Caterpillar = chenille And pupa may be translated by "chrysalide" or sometimes "pupe". There is a confusion for non-entomologist people between cocoon (translated in french as "cocon") and pupa. For butterfly, the translation is "papillon" without specifying "de jour" (day). Laurent http://pages.infinit.net/laurentl Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From aa6g at aa6g.org Wed May 17 23:48:04 2000 From: aa6g at aa6g.org (Chuck Vaughn) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 20:48:04 -0700 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico In-Reply-To: <3922E674.342D@mindspring.com> References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3922C981.122C6DA8@aa6g.org> Message-ID: Hi Paul, >What is the URL to access these spectacular images Chuck? > >The monarch sanctuaries are hundreds of miles to the southeast of the fires >in the state of Michoacan. I would be grateful,Chuck, if you could tell us how we >can access these spectacular photos of other areas of Mexico such as Michoacan. These images I have received myself from the NOAA polar orbiting weather satellites but for everyone else the same data can be requested for free from the Satellite Active Archive. http://www.saa.noaa.gov/ The interface is much improved over a couple years ago but it's still not as easy as saying "I want an image of Mexico". You have perform a search based on latitude and longitude of interest. You can get an image preview before you ask for the complete file (typically 50MB or more) for ftp download. Try NOAA 14 first and then NOAA 12. Forget NOAA 15 as it has an antenna problem and the signal is too weak in general to receive that far away. The official west coast NOAA receiving station is in Monterey. After you get the file you need to be able to read it. There is a nice freeware program from David Taylor at: http://www.davidtaylor.freeserve.co.uk/software/wxsat.htm that reads all the formats from the SAA. The data is 10 bits and his program does some simple processing of that data. I've been using Photoshop to perform other functions. The Mexico image I posted had quite a bit of processing applied to it. A more representive image, i.e., minimal processing, is at my ftp site. It shows a good portion of Mexico including the part Chris Durden ask me about. ftp://shell3.ba.best.com/web2/aa6g/200004082200.jpg (400KB) The file name is the format of yyyymmddtttt (time in UTC). Finally I have an example of a true color image (exaggerated somewhat) from the new Chinese weather satellite that has sensors covering the visible light range. NOAA satellites do not. They cover red through far IR only. ftp://shell3.ba.best.com/web2/aa6g/rgcb200005141504gc.jpg (1.1MB) Unfortunately this data is not available anywhere on the net that I know of. I hope this will get you started. Chuck From donald.davis at utoronto.ca Thu May 18 03:37:24 2000 From: donald.davis at utoronto.ca (Donald Davis) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:37:24 GMT Subject: Leps in French References: Message-ID: <39239DB4.631949D3@utoronto.ca> Here's a few words that your students may be able to relate to. French words are given male or female classification - not neutral for things or objects as in English. Le papillon de nuit (M - masculine word) sounds familiar for moths For cocoon, try "le cocon", but for chrysalis (ie monarch butterfly) try "le chrysalide". There may very well be a word for "pupa". I just don't know it. Caterpillar is la chenille (F - female word). But larva, I think, is la larve. Egg is l'oeuf (masculine) Bon chance! Don Davis Toronto, ON From pierre.schmit at eurocontrol.fr Thu May 18 07:40:13 2000 From: pierre.schmit at eurocontrol.fr (sch) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:40:13 +0200 Subject: leps in French References: <200005180401.AAA18517@gr.its.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3923D69D.5381A389@eurocontrol.fr> > > Subject: leps in French > Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:54:40 -0400 > From: Ernest Williams > To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > > French-speaking LEPS-L folks, > 1. Are moths always referred to as "les papillons de nuit"? That brought > about some confusion when I said some papillons de nuit are active during > the day. > "les papillons de nuit" and "les papillons de jour" in current language are not related to systematic and classification of Lepidoptera but to what we can observe in current life .If we want to relate it to systematic ,we can have "les papillons de jour" which are Rhopalocera and "les papillons de nuit" which are Heterocera even if this division is not now completely true. Among Heterocera as every body knows some of them have diurnal activities ... > > 2. Is "chenille" a general term for any caterpillar, or are there > additional terms? "chenille" is reserved for larva of Lepidoptera , other terms are employed for other families of insects :"larve" is general but we can have "asticot" for flies ,... > 3. What is the French word for pupa? The kids all understood "cocoon", but > the teachers from Paris had no idea what a pupa is, while the American > teachers of French (who've heard me before) know what a pupa is but have no > French word for it. pupa is "pupe" . We use more "chrysalide" for Rhopalocera and "chrysalide" or "cocon" depending the case for Heterocera if the pupae is protected or not by a cocoon .Understood that inside each "cocon" there is a "chrysalide" . > > 4. What is the French word for wing scales? > "?cailles" Hope this will help. Pierre Schmit From MWalker at gensym.com Thu May 18 09:32:43 2000 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:32:43 -0400 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63E3@hqmail.gensym.com> Neil Jones wrote: > No Mark, the point is not that simple. Yikes, Neil, it was my point to begin with. It's as simple as I want it to be. Take my word for it - the point is simple. > Yes Mark, you are a responsible caring person who understands the need > for conservation. That is obvious. I do not maintain a collection of > butterflies. I do occasionally kill insect specimens to study them > get them identified etc. I do not want my study banned, but > I am deeply > worried when the study of insects is defended by arguments that are so > transparently false. This "windshields" argument does a great > disservice > to entomology. I am not using my argument to defend entomology. I am using my argument as a reflection back in the face of self-righteousness. "Those without guilt throw the first stone", and other stories. We're sprawling, Neil - and every day that you and I take another breath, we're contributing to habitat destruction. Painting the picture that "men in fields carrying nets" are the principal enemy while those carrying camera bags are some how purer and environmentally friendly is simply wrong. One of the binocular ads in "American Butterflies" just slays me. It depicts a gorilla trying to mate a geekoid butterfly collector wearing a pith helmet. The image is clear - good guys wear white and carry a lens. Bad guys carry a net. All of the folks behind propagating this image suck - in my humble opinion. BTW, the windshield argument is not transparent (especially with all of the splattered bugs all over it). You certainly would agree that road kill is an issue with larger animals - why do you want to ignore roadkill when it comes to butterflies? > > People do target the rare. They target the rare photograph > and the rare > experience. I as a photographer have photographs of the Palos > Verdes Blue > and the Quino and Bay Checkerspots. You will know just how > rare these are. Hold on to your hat: We agree. People target the rare. It's not in the best interest of the rare - for sure. > > As for our lifestyles causing the distruction of habitat. > Well of course > there are social factors. The strange thing is that eating > "Muckburgers":-) or > having a video player etc. does not necessarily help in > making people happy. > I don't eat at burger bars since I want to stay healthy as a matter of > personal choice. I don't have a video player either or a car. > (I used to have a > car but now I find I can save the expense.) The fact is that > we can have > a good happy lifestyle and save the environment. We can be environmentally conscious. We should not be deluded into thinking that "we" are saving the environment. Especially those of us who are enjoying a good and happy lifestyle. A good and happy lifestyle is characterized by plastic, the flush toilet, and refuse collection. We are not environmentally friendly. Mark Walker From MWalker at gensym.com Thu May 18 09:45:34 2000 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:45:34 -0400 Subject: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63E4@hqmail.gensym.com> Michael wrote: > I think it important to remind people that whether collecting > is "good" > or "bad" or whether collectors are "good" or "bad", or how > many of the > latter there may be in our midst, are separate questions from > "whether > or not a species or a population CAN be collected out of existence. A > species with high fecundity, high vagility, broad habitat > tolerance, and > large initial populations sizes is not a model for a relict > species with > small populations, low fecundity, restricted range, and short flight > period. Despite time-honored beliefs, it would have been relatively > easy with multiple visits each year over a period of a few years, to > eliminate the Satyr species (or at least reduce it to a low > level where > random events led to its extinction). Sorry to beat a dead horse, but shouldn't there be a distinction made between "collecting a species out of existence" and collecting the last specimen in existence? Please, I am by no means defending the latter - but it seems wrong to me to deduce that since the last specimen was collected, that collecting is responsible for the elimination of the species. Mark Walker From rboutin at sympatico.ca Thu May 18 09:51:00 2000 From: rboutin at sympatico.ca (RENE BOUTIN) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:51:00 -0400 Subject: Leps in French References: <39239DB4.631949D3@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <3923F544.CD1A00C2@sympatico.ca> That would be" la chrysalide" and "bonne chance" both feminine. Donald Davis wrote: > Here's a few words that your students may be able to relate to. French words > are given male or female classification - not neutral for things or objects as > in English. > > Le papillon de nuit (M - masculine word) sounds familiar for moths > > For cocoon, try "le cocon", but for chrysalis (ie monarch butterfly) try "le > chrysalide". There may very well be a word for "pupa". I just don't know it. > > Caterpillar is la chenille (F - female word). But larva, I think, is la larve. > > Egg is l'oeuf (masculine) > > Bon chance! > > Don Davis > Toronto, ON From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu May 18 10:18:44 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:18:44 -0400 Subject: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors In-Reply-To: Mark Walker "RE: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors" (May 18, 9:45am) References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63E4@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <1000518101847.ZM3782@Gochfeld> yES, I like the nuance of Mark's distinction. If habitat degradation, unfettered automobiles, and climatic shift bring a species down to the last individual---the collector of that last individual, well, need I say more. Bob Dickerman, ornithologist, told me proudly (35 years ago) that he would collect any Ivory-billed Woodpecker he saw, including the last one, since the species had no future outside of museum trays. He must be lamenting this missed opportunity. (It's funny the odd things that fill up the memory banks and prevent you from remembering what you had for breakfast, or indeeed whether you even had breakfast). Mike Gochfeld From MWalker at gensym.com Thu May 18 10:53:05 2000 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:53:05 -0400 Subject: Swallowtail Promenade - Goodsprings, NV 5/12/00 Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63E5@hqmail.gensym.com> Las Vegas is a nice place to visit, but the mountain areas surrounding the city that never sleeps are far nicer places to live. Or something like that. I was able to take a detour thru the Spring Mountains on both my way to and from the Networld/Interop show in Vegas last week. The higher elevations (Mt. Charleston is above 11,000 ft.) are still too wintry for Lep activity, but the lower, more arid elevations are in full bloom. Unfortunately, the wind can blow pretty hard. Most roads are unpaved, and unless you have an off-road vehicle, they can be pretty treacherous. Thank God I had my trusty 3-cylinder Geo Metro. Never has there ever been such an off-road vehicle. Then again, the mechanic that is fixing it at the moment didn't quite agree. He seemed to think that the $500 repair bill might be some indication of the contrary. I don't know where he gets such crazy ideas. Oh well. Thank God it's paid for - sort of. So anyway, where was I? Oh yeah - the Swallowtails! Not much else flying, so it was a good thing that they were as common as they were. As far as I can tell, there were at least two species flying (even with voucher specimens, this can be challenging). One is a ssp. of Papilio polyxenes (coloro?) and the other is a ssp. of P. zelicaon (nitra?). There were both black and yellow forms. The abdominal markings really do seem to be the only way an amateur like me can do an id'ing. I didn't see any Indra's - at least I don't think I did. Even with the ST's being as common as they were, they were incredibly difficult to capture. Is it possible to spend several hours being blasted by wind and sun - surrounded by mating butterflies - and end up with an empty net? Yes. It is possible. It is very, very possible. Of course, I was blindfolded and had one hand tied behind my back. It's all part of the sport, you know. Kind of like barbless hooks (no, I haven't considered a bottomless net). Here is a list of other species sighted: Papilio zelicaon (Anise Swallowtail) Papilio polyxenes (Black Swallowtail) Pontia beckerii (Becker's White) Callophrys gryneus (Juniper Hairstreak) Apodemia mormo (Mormon Metalmark) Poladryas arachne (Arachne Checkerspot) Thessalia leanira alma (Alma Checkerspot) Pyrgus communis (Checkered Skipper) Heliopetes ericetorum (Large White Skipper) Mark Walker sleepless in Bradley, CA From rbenavid at hotmail.com Thu May 18 11:20:19 2000 From: rbenavid at hotmail.com (rudy benavides) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:20:19 PDT Subject: Habitat destruction in Mexico Message-ID: <20000518152019.64459.qmail@hotmail.com> Burning was also practised in this part of Maryland (and nearby Pennsylvania) by the Susquehannoks before the settlers arrived in the early 1600s. When the settlers first saw these large open prairies here in the east, they called them *barrens*. The Susquehannoks fire-hunted white-tailed deer by burning huge circles (several miles in diameter) and driving them in where they could be easily taken. Prairie-like grasslands with Big and Little Bluestem, and Indian Grass developed. From historical accounts we know that these were pretty good sized tracts - the Pennsylvania barrens were about 130,000 acres in the early 1700s. In Maryland it was less, but grassland openings extended from the Pennsylvania line to Montgomery County - a Washington D.C. suburb. In Baltimore County there is a park managed by the Department of Natural Resources that maintains a remnant of that early ecosystem, and they have to maintain it with controlled burns, otherwise invasive pioneering Virginia pines and greenbrier would take it over. Actually today, it is an oak-grassland savannah. This environmental area is also home to the Edward's hairstreak and to various federally and state endangered wildflowers. We tend to think of the early Eastern U.S. landscape as an impenetrable forest, and of course much of it was, but in some areas it was also more like a patchwork as described by the settlers. Burning was an easy way for the native tribes to open the forest up to gain access to a variety of game not normally accessible ... although these fires were not on the scale of what is being burned in Mexico today. Rudy Benavides Maryland ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Wed May 17 23:25:43 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:25:43 -0500 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico In-Reply-To: <3922886A.19E7@mindspring.com> References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000517222543.009045e0@mail.utexas.edu> Paul, That was a regional phenomenon, not a blanket assault on the lanscape. It was of patchy distribution which changed over the decades with climatic fluctuations. Some systems still operate that way when left alone - eg. the seven-tree-species-forest south of Hudson's Bay which is, from the air a patchwork of small burns and regrowth with rare old growth pockets persisting in naturally protected sites such as peninsulas, islands and cliffs. Under population pressure if this land were colonized, the old-growth pockets would not persist. It is in these pockets of old-growth that many of the rare and relict species survive. Today we are faced with a million cases of arson, perpetrated on the best-soil-areas in the region by newcomers to the area. This is surely nothing like the natural phenomenon of lightning-started fires that it has replaced. .....Chris Durden At 11:54 17/05/00 +0000, you wrote: >Chris J. Durden wrote: > >> Fantastic image of Sinaloa and parts of adjacent states! A sorry sight. > >Does anyone here remember learning in their college Plant Ecology classes that >prior to the arrival of european man, most of western North America burned >roughly every 7-10 years? > >Paul Cherubini, Placerville, Calif. > > From pasammut at vol.net.mt Thu May 18 12:28:15 2000 From: pasammut at vol.net.mt (Paul. M. Sammut) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:28:15 +0200 Subject: updating these butterfly name from Japan. Message-ID: <39241A1F.2262@dream.vol.net.mt> Hi Friends, I have been going over some nymphalids in my collection and have come across the following: Melitaea phoebe mandarina Mellicta athalia niphona Mellicta britomartis niphona. According to a list of the species flying in Japan (downloaded from internet some months ago) these 3 do not figure in this list. Are the above 3 species known by some new name? Thanks to all. Paul sammut MALTA From cadolle at span.ch Thu May 18 13:44:49 2000 From: cadolle at span.ch (D. Cadolle) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:44:49 +0200 Subject: Leps in French Message-ID: <001001bfc0f0$ee1375c0$9c410fc3@cadolle> Hello dear Listers, Some more info (and sorry for my english): in French, we classically make the following distinction to name the resting step beetween the larva and the imago : "la nymphe" comprising 2 types : " la nymphe nue" used for Megaloptera, Planipenna, Coleoptera, Mecoptera, Trichoptera, Hymenoptera and a few Lepidoptera (Micropterygidae, Eriocraniidae..) "la nymphe obtect?e" used for a few families of Coleoptera (Staphylinidae, Coccinellidae), Diptera. "la chrysalide" is a type of "nymphe obtect?e" the name of which is used only for Lepidoptera. "Le cocon" is the name used to designate the silken network built by "la larve". "la pupe" is used for Cyclorrhaphea and some brachycerous Diptera. Hope this may be useful. Regards, Daniel -----Message d'origine----- De : RENE BOUTIN ? : donald.davis at utoronto.ca Cc : leps-l at lists.yale.edu Date : jeudi, 18. mai 2000 15:54 Objet : Re: Leps in French >That would be" la chrysalide" and "bonne chance" both feminine. > >Donald Davis wrote: > >> Here's a few words that your students may be able to relate to. French words >> are given male or female classification - not neutral for things or objects as >> in English. >> >> Le papillon de nuit (M - masculine word) sounds familiar for moths >> >> For cocoon, try "le cocon", but for chrysalis (ie monarch butterfly) try "le >> chrysalide". There may very well be a word for "pupa". I just don't know it. >> >> Caterpillar is la chenille (F - female word). But larva, I think, is la larve. >> >> Egg is l'oeuf (masculine) >> >> Bon chance! >> >> Don Davis >> Toronto, ON > From cherubini at mindspring.com Thu May 18 07:02:17 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:02:17 +0000 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000517222543.009045e0@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3923CDB9.7B64@mindspring.com> Chris J. Durden wrote: > Today we are faced with a million cases of arson, perpetrated on the > best-soil-areas in the region by newcomers to the area. This is surely > nothing like the natural phenomenon of lightning-started fires that it has > replaced. So Chris, what are you saying is the cause of these fires in the extremely remote summit areas (as we saw on Chuch Vaughn's satellite photo) of the Sierra Madre Occidentale mountains of northwestern Mexico? Paul Cherubini From bnotebaert at hotmail.com Wed May 17 14:24:33 2000 From: bnotebaert at hotmail.com (Bastiaan Notebaert) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 20:24:33 +0200 Subject: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors References: <3922AAF3.5FA1F00@tnc.org> Message-ID: <20000518181345.78154.qmail@hotmail.com> Maes & Van Dyck (1999)* discuss in a general work on Butterflies in Flanders (Belgium) the collecting of butterflies. They write the last Flemmish specimens of Coenonympha tullia and Maculinea teleius in Belgium were collected. They are strongly against capturing butterflies but they mention loss of habitat is the main reason why these species disappeared (for M. teleius it was the building of a home which caused the loss of habitat). But as collectors capture mostly fresh and good looking specimens (with a larger reproduction capability) this can cause large damage to the relictpopulations. So, a ban on collecting can save small relictpopulations but can't give any guaranties on durable survival of the species. Conservation of good habitats which are large enough is more important. They also mention that Thomas JA (1983) found that in one day collecting in the summit of the Flight-period of Polyommatus bellargus a collector can maximally capture 18 % of the adult butterflies! Unless these facts I'm also against active collecting butterflies. When you now that in a country as Flanders were the situation for butterflies is really disastrous (due to loss of habitat) and a population can be as small as maximal 1 butterfly observed a year (e.g. Cupido minimus in Bellem, East-Flanders; probably extinct in 1998 by constructing a concreted path on the habitat), you understand capturing one butterfly can cause a lot of damage. Beside, in Belgium the capturance and possession of some species is prohibited by law. Bastiaan Notebaert www.geocities.com/notebas *: Maes D. & Van Dyck H., 1999, Dagvlinders in Vlaanderen - Ecologie, verspreiding en behoud; Stichting leefmilieu/Antwerpen i.s.m. Instituut voor natuurbehoud en Vlaamse Vlinderwerkgroep/Brussel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000517/a27ca999/attachment.html From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Thu May 18 16:48:16 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:48:16 -0700 Subject: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2796@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> It is unfortunate that some parts of the planet have been so extensively modified by human activity that there is little in the way of natural flora and fauna left to enjoy. My sincere condolences to those who must travel long distances to see more than a few butterflies. My situation perhaps lies at the opposite end of the spectrum. I sauntered about on about 1 hectare of mountainside at the edge of the town where I work as a lunch break today. I easily saw at least hundreds of butterflies of more than 15 species. There were too many to count and of course one seldom sees but a small fraction of the total population in a brief visit. The Glaucopsyche lygdamus and Icaricia icarioides were literally swarming among the Lupinus. The site was not virgin wilderness, in fact by local standards it qualifies as ecologically degraded - but still plenty of resources to support very robust butterfly populations. Butterfly watchers, photographers and collectors are welcome as visitors in western Canada - help keep our country green, bring money :-) -----Original Message----- From: Bastiaan Notebaert [mailto:bnotebaert at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 11:25 AM To: lepslist Subject: Re: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors Maes & Van Dyck (1999)* discuss in a general work on Butterflies in Flanders (Belgium) the collecting of butterflies. They write the last Flemmish specimens of Coenonympha tullia and Maculinea teleius in Belgium were collected. They are strongly against capturing butterflies but they mention loss of habitat is the main reason why these species disappeared (for M. teleius it was the building of a home which caused the loss of habitat). But as collectors capture mostly fresh and good looking specimens (with a larger reproduction capability) this can cause large damage to the relictpopulations. So, a ban on collecting can save small relictpopulations but can't give any guaranties on durable survival of the species. Conservation of good habitats which are large enough is more important. They also mention that Thomas JA (1983) found that in one day collecting in the summit of the Flight-period of Polyommatus bellargus a collector can maximally capture 18 % of the adult butterflies! Unless these facts I'm also against active collecting butterflies. When you now that in a country as Flanders were the situation for butterflies is really disastrous (due to loss of habitat) and a population can be as small as maximal 1 butterfly observed a year (e.g. Cupido minimus in Bellem, East-Flanders; probably extinct in 1998 by constructing a concreted path on the habitat), you understand capturing one butterfly can cause a lot of damage. Beside, in Belgium the capturance and possession of some species is prohibited by law. Bastiaan Notebaert www.geocities.com/notebas *: Maes D. & Van Dyck H., 1999, Dagvlinders in Vlaanderen - Ecologie, verspreiding en behoud; Stichting leefmilieu/Antwerpen i.s.m. Instituut voor natuurbehoud en Vlaamse Vlinderwerkgroep/Brussel. From celalt at samsun.omu.edu.tr Thu May 18 17:24:18 2000 From: celalt at samsun.omu.edu.tr (celalt) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:24:18 +0300 Subject: Help for external sexual characters of lepidopteran pests of.. Message-ID: <39245F82.CCEC526E@samsun.omu.edu.tr> Dear entomologists Does anyone know any publication regarding external sexual characters of Lepidopteran pests of Stored Products such as P.interpunctella, E.cautella E.k?ehniella, P.farinalis etc..... I really appreciate for your help. Dr.Celal Tuncer -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ From william at elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk Thu May 18 16:21:22 2000 From: william at elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk (Bill Grange) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:21:22 +0100 Subject: Caterpillar from England - identification? Message-ID: <8g1jfq$qhe$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> I would be pleased if anyone is able to identify a caterpillar (enquiry from a member of the public) - picture at: http://www.elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk/query.htm I'm sorry for the indifferent quality of the photo. Bill Grange Keeper of Natural History, Derby Museum, England Website: http://www.elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk From msa at anise.tte.vtt.fi Thu May 18 16:40:43 2000 From: msa at anise.tte.vtt.fi (Markku Savela) Date: 18 May 2000 20:40:43 GMT Subject: Need some identifications... Message-ID: On following pages I have some photos that I took in 1999 while in Seattle region in Washington (USA). Obviously these may be hard to identify from the pictures. Maybe next time I have to take samples, so that I find the id's myself using the books... http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/papilionoidea/lycaenidae/polyommatinae/ http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/papilionoidea/lycaenidae/polyommatinae/plebejus/ http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/ (just a moth larva and a micromoth) http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/hesperioidea/hesperiidae/hesperiinae/ochlodes/ http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/hesperioidea/hesperiidae/hesperiinae/hesperia/ There are others too, actually, taking a pages http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/warp/lepidoptera-English-Photolist.html http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/warp/lepidoptera-2-English-Photolist.html http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/warp/lepidoptera-3-English-Photolist.html and looking for string "WA," case sensitive, you can find others. Those starting with "sp-" are unidentified... -- Markku Savela (msa at hemuli.tte.vtt.fi), Technical Research Centre of Finland Multimedia Systems, P.O.Box 1203,FIN-02044 VTT,http://www.vtt.fi/tte/staff/msa/ From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Thu May 18 06:49:17 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 05:49:17 -0500 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico In-Reply-To: <3923CDB9.7B64@mindspring.com> References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000517222543.009045e0@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000518054917.00973da0@mail.utexas.edu> At 11:02 18/05/00 +0000, you wrote: >Chris J. Durden wrote: > >> Today we are faced with a million cases of arson, perpetrated on the >> best-soil-areas in the region by newcomers to the area. This is surely >> nothing like the natural phenomenon of lightning-started fires that it has >> replaced. > >So Chris, what are you saying is the cause of these fires in the extremely >remote summit areas (as we saw on Chuch Vaughn's satellite photo) >of the Sierra Madre Occidentale mountains of northwestern Mexico? > >Paul Cherubini > >- - - - - Yes that is what I am saying. These fires are not all in summit areas. They are not in remote areas. There may be no paved road anywhere near, but there are trails that are regularly walked or driven by old pickups and old army surplus trucks carrying families or work crews. Then there are combis. A lot of people live in these mountains. Some years there are several times this number of fires in the area. Other parts of Mexico have a much higher incidence of fires during the burning seasons. Look right now at coastal Michoacan, Southern Tamaulipas, Northern Veracruz on the maps at - http://fms.nofc.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/mexico/index.html At other times of the year heavy fire activity is in Quintana Roo, Chiapas, Oaxaca, Chihuahua and northern Tamaulipas. Add this all up and then go check it on the ground. The results are very real. A lot of big tree forest that was there 30 to 40 years ago is no longer there. A lot of land then vacant brushland is now populated goat-stripped desert. A lot of land then lush green village gardens is now dry dusty, plastic strewn makeshift shantytown. Open your eyes. Drive or ride the bus. All you see from the plane is green or brown brush and occasional fires. .....Chris From Walter.Schoen at t-online.de Thu May 18 17:34:58 2000 From: Walter.Schoen at t-online.de (Walter.Schoen) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:34:58 +0200 Subject: Caterpillar from England - identification? References: <8g1jfq$qhe$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> Message-ID: <8g1nv3$reh$15$1@news.t-online.com> Hello, it might be The Drinker (Euthrix potatoria) . That caterpillar is for example feeding of Common reed (as shown at the picture?). Compare "Jim Porter , The Colour Identification Guide to Caterpillars of the British Isles, Plate 7/K " A better picture of that caterpillar is shown at my German Butterfly homapage http://www.schmetterling-raupe.de/bild23.jpg Have a look at my homepage http://www.schmetterling-raupe.de with some pages in English too (for example concerninmg migration) Walter From cherubini at mindspring.com Thu May 18 13:36:10 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:36:10 +0000 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000517222543.009045e0@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000518054917.00973da0@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <39242A0A.259@mindspring.com> Chris J. Durden wrote: > Yes that is what I am saying. These fires are not all in summit areas. > They are not in remote areas. There may be no paved road anywhere near, but > there are trails that are regularly walked or driven by old pickups and old > army surplus trucks carrying families or work crews. Why are these "families and work crews" alledgedly intentionally setting the fires? What benefit do they derive from them? Maybe there are legitimate benefits? Paul Cherubini, Placerville, Calif. From gnielsen at andinet.com Thu May 18 21:40:10 2000 From: gnielsen at andinet.com (Gregory Nielsen) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 20:40:10 -0500 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000517222543.009045e0@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000518054917.00973da0@mail.utexas.edu> <39242A0A.259@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <002101bfc133$47b80b80$9e81ddd0@andinet.com> ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Paul Cherubini Para: Enviado: Jueves, 18 de Mayo de 2000 12:36 p.m. Asunto: Re: Habitat Destruction in Mexico > Chris J. Durden wrote: > > > Yes that is what I am saying. These fires are not all in summit areas. > > They are not in remote areas. There may be no paved road anywhere near, but > > there are trails that are regularly walked or driven by old pickups and old > > army surplus trucks carrying families or work crews. > > Why are these "families and work crews" alledgedly intentionally setting the fires? > What benefit do they derive from them? Maybe there are legitimate benefits? > > Paul Cherubini, Placerville, Calif. Paul, Fire is used all over in the new world tropics to clear land for planting or some other activity. People cut down the forest and the then set fire to it in the dry season. The ashes serve as fertilizer. In the savannahs the grass is set on fire during the dry season to provoke a new new growth for the cattle. Greg Nielsen, Villavicencio, Colombia From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu May 18 22:58:49 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:58:49 -0400 Subject: Is a one-butterfly population viable In-Reply-To: "Bastiaan Notebaert" "Re: Extinction of Mitchell's Satyr by collectors" (May 17, 8:24pm) References: <3922AAF3.5FA1F00@tnc.org> <20000518181345.78154.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <1000518225852.ZM3670@Gochfeld> We have a very relict population of Hesperia leonardus (Leondard's Skipper) behind our house. Last year it was listed in NJ as a Species of Special Concern. We have seen only one individual from this population in each of the last three years. This is a remnant of a population that used to number between 5-10 individuals/sighted during the 17 day season (last week of August and first 10 days of Sept). It's not clear what the actual population is likely to be, but we look pretty hard for this species on several of the days in the flight period. I wouldn't have bet on its survival two years ago. Nor on its future survival, now that the area is destined to be developed. We did secure a conservation easement which will protect the area (if not the critical habitat). M. Gochfeld From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Thu May 18 13:32:51 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:32:51 -0500 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico In-Reply-To: <39242A0A.259@mindspring.com> References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000517222543.009045e0@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000518054917.00973da0@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000518123251.00901d90@mail.utexas.edu> Paul, Go see for yourself what is happening and form your own opinions from first hand observations. Further elaboration does not belong on leps-l. ......Chris At 05:36 18/05/00 +0000, you wrote: >Chris J. Durden wrote: > >> Yes that is what I am saying. These fires are not all in summit areas. >> They are not in remote areas. There may be no paved road anywhere near, but >> there are trails that are regularly walked or driven by old pickups and old >> army surplus trucks carrying families or work crews. > >Why are these "families and work crews" alledgedly intentionally setting the fires? >What benefit do they derive from them? Maybe there are legitimate benefits? > >Paul Cherubini, Placerville, Calif. > > From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Thu May 18 15:44:22 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:44:22 -0500 Subject: normal fires & habitat In-Reply-To: <39242A0A.259@mindspring.com> References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000517222543.009045e0@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000518054917.00973da0@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000518144422.0091c100@mail.utexas.edu> To see natural, lightning-started fires burning in sparsely inhabited territory over the course of a summer, see these pictures from 1998- http://www.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca/ccrs/tekrd/rd/apps/em/cchange/ontfire/jamesbaf.h tml This view shows about 48,400 sqare miles of Hudsonian and Canadian Zone forest, taiga, nuskeg, string-bog, esker sandplains and raised beaches to the southeast of Cape Henrietta Maria, Ontario. There are patches of subtundra near the cape and north shore. Forest in the southwest corner is composed of seven tree species. Few people live in the area. The Weenusk First Nation live near the northwest shore. The Mushkegowuk Cree Attawapiskat First Nation live near the southeast shore. European contact was by Thomas James in 1631. A few Hudsons Bay Company Factors, missionaries, and military radar personnel have all come and gone. There are a few recreational canoe trips down the major rivers each summer. See also - http:/www.ontarioparks.com/pola.html Some of the butterflies of the coast are: *Erynnis borealis*, *Pyrgus freija*, *Agriades (glandon) lacustris*, *Papilio machaon*, *Coenonympha (tullia) inornata*. *Oeneis taygete*, *Oeneis (chryxus) calais*, *Boloria (titania) boisduvalii*, *Boloria eunomia triclaris*, *Colias palaeno*. Some of the butterflies of the interior are: *Erynnis icelus*, *Polites mystic*, *Incisalia niphon*, *I. polios*, *I. augustus*, *Epidemia dorcas*, *E. epixanthe*, *Cupido amyntula*, *Celastrina lucia*, *Celastrina* sp., *Glaucopsyche lygdamus*, *Plebejides saepiolus*, *Lycaeides idas*, *Pterourus canadensis*, *Erebia (mancina) nephele*, *Oeneis (jutta) harperi*, *Oe. (jutta) ascerta*, *Phyciodes morpheus arctica*, *Polygonia satyrus*, *P. progne*, *P. gracilis*, *P. faunus*, *Nymphalis milberti*, *N. l-album*, *N. antiopa*, *Vanessa atalanta*, *V. virginiensis*, *Speyeria atlantis*, *Boloria selene*, *B, freija*, *B. titania*, *B. frigga*, *B. bellona*, *B. eunomia dawsoni*, *Limenitis arthemis rubrofasciata*, *Pieris oleracea casta*, *Pontia occidentalis*, *Colias philodice*, *C. interior*, *C. pelidne*. Two of these species, *Colias pelidne* and *Lycaeides idas* are dependent upon maintenance of a "fire-heath" habitat by natural fires, and many of the others prosper from successional vegetation after fire. ........Chris Durden From cherubini at mindspring.com Thu May 18 20:57:12 2000 From: cherubini at mindspring.com (Paul Cherubini) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:57:12 +0000 Subject: Habitat Destruction in Mexico References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63DB@hqmail.gensym.com> <3.0.5.32.20000517000948.008fc980@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000517222543.009045e0@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000518054917.00973da0@mail.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.20000518123251.00901d90@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <39249168.55B6@mindspring.com> Chris J. Durden wrote: > > Paul, > Go see for yourself what is happening and form your own opinions from > first hand observations. Further elaboration does not belong on leps-l. > ......Chris I was just following up on Chuck Vaughn's original inquiry which was: "Maybe there are a few on this list familiar with Mexico. What is going on down there? This looks like habitat destruction on a mass scale." Chris, yesturday, you explained to the list that the Mexican government program has resettled many thousands of tropical farmers to the mountains of northern Mexico where they practice "classic slash and burn agriculture" - "the burning of forest to generate ash, to fertilize land to grow corn for 2 or 3 years". Then you expressed your concern that this burning will cause: - "The world will lose undescribed species from these mountains." - "Air pollution will get worse in parts of the US." - "Rainfall in the Eastern US will decline as the evaporative properties of the vegetation of the Sierra Madre decline." Finally you hinted US scientists or the US government should step in when you said: - "Maybe the Union of Concerned Scientists can help us." - "we must rely upon the State Department to further our interests." My whole point is that when I review the aerial photos I have taken of the montane forests of NW Mexico I see a much more pristine situation than what we have in our own coniferous forests such as those in California and the Pacific Northwest. Fly over the Oregon and Washington Cascades or Coast Range Mountains, for example, and ones sees a landscape scarred with literally thousands of clear cuts. And where the forest is intact, such tracts are often on a 40 year clear cut cycle. My rant is that I find it hypocritical for us Americans to relentlessly point a finger of shame at the Mexican people and government when what we do with our own forests seems far worse. And unlike Mexico, we do not cut down the forest to grow food in order to survive, but merely to make products that support our materialistic lifestyle. Paul Cherubini From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Fri May 19 11:40:10 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Fri, 19 May 00 15:40:10 GMT Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63E3@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <958750810snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D01AC63E3 at hqmail.gensym.com> MWalker at gensym.com "Mark Walker" writes: > Neil Jones wrote: > > > No Mark, the point is not that simple. > > Yikes, Neil, it was my point to begin with. It's as simple as I want it to > be. Take my word for it - the point is simple. > > > Yes Mark, you are a responsible caring person who understands the need > > for conservation. That is obvious. I do not maintain a collection of > > butterflies. I do occasionally kill insect specimens to study them > > get them identified etc. I do not want my study banned, but > > I am deeply > > worried when the study of insects is defended by arguments that are so > > transparently false. This "windshields" argument does a great > > disservice > > to entomology. > > I am not using my argument to defend entomology. I am using my argument as > a reflection back in the face of self-righteousness. "Those without guilt > throw the first stone", and other stories. We're sprawling, Neil - and > every day that you and I take another breath, we're contributing to habitat > destruction. Painting the picture that "men in fields carrying nets" are > the principal enemy while those carrying camera bags are some how purer and > environmentally friendly is simply wrong. One of the binocular ads in > "American Butterflies" just slays me. It depicts a gorilla trying to mate a > geekoid butterfly collector wearing a pith helmet. The image is clear - > good guys wear white and carry a lens. Bad guys carry a net. All of the > folks behind propagating this image suck - in my humble opinion. I haven't seen the ad but the image has me laughing out loud. Incidentally I often carry I net when I am abroad or when I am after moths. No trouble with gorilla's yet! :-) Well has it not occured to you that some of the people propagating the image you describe are actually collectors. I see a distinction between guys like you and the philatelic collectors that John Shuey describes. The ones who gave a false location record for the St. Francis Satyr really do fall into this camp. I have seen the indictment which led to the conviction of one of them. They could hardly get the Latin names right at all. My favourite has to be a Swallotail called "kiboensis" (sic) K.I.B.O = Knowledge In Bull Out.! :-) These guys really do propagate this image that you say "Sucks". The problem that in the past (and I emphasise I am not talking about anyone in the current debate) we have seen such obvious Bad stamp collector types appearing on the list and being defended. By refusing to condemn bad behaviour and even on occasions to speak in its defence the image you so dislike of the bad guy with the net has been propagated. > > BTW, the windshield argument is not transparent (especially with all of the > splattered bugs all over it). You certainly would agree that road kill is > an issue with larger animals - why do you want to ignore roadkill when it > comes to butterflies? It is simple. Windshield (That's windscreen in the UK) kills are not deliberate they affect mainly common species. A guy going to Scotland and collecting New Forest Burnet moths is a very different thing. > > > > > People do target the rare. They target the rare photograph > > and the rare > > experience. I as a photographer have photographs of the Palos > > Verdes Blue > > and the Quino and Bay Checkerspots. You will know just how > > rare these are. > > Hold on to your hat: We agree. People target the rare. It's not in the > best interest of the rare - for sure. > > > > > As for our lifestyles causing the distruction of habitat. > > Well of course > > there are social factors. The strange thing is that eating > > "Muckburgers":-) or > > having a video player etc. does not necessarily help in > > making people happy. > > I don't eat at burger bars since I want to stay healthy as a matter of > > personal choice. I don't have a video player either or a car. > > (I used to have a > > car but now I find I can save the expense.) The fact is that > > we can have > > a good happy lifestyle and save the environment. > > We can be environmentally conscious. We should not be deluded into thinking > that "we" are saving the environment. Especially those of us who are > enjoying a good and happy lifestyle. A good and happy lifestyle is > characterized by plastic, the flush toilet, and refuse collection. We are > not environmentally friendly. Spoken like a real Californian :-) Seriously happiness has nothing to to do with possessions. I actually know perfectly happy people without flush toilets. We are as environmentally friendly as we collectively chose to be. I am not advocating that we abandon modern technology, I am advocating that we use our brains for our future needs not our future greeds. > > Mark Walker > > -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From david at poynton9.freeserve.co.uk Fri May 19 15:51:14 2000 From: david at poynton9.freeserve.co.uk (david poynton) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:51:14 +0100 Subject: Caterpillar from England - identification? References: <8g1jfq$qhe$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> Message-ID: <8g461v$65c$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> The photo is of the Drinker. I am rearing one at the moment on Reed. Regards David Poynton Bill Grange wrote in message news:8g1jfq$qhe$1 at news6.svr.pol.co.uk... > I would be pleased if anyone is able to identify a caterpillar (enquiry from > a member of the public) - picture at: > > http://www.elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk/query.htm > > I'm sorry for the indifferent quality of the photo. > > Bill Grange > > Keeper of Natural History, Derby Museum, England > > Website: http://www.elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk > > From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Fri May 19 21:10:11 2000 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:10:11 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot Message-ID: > Windshield (That's windscreen in the UK) kills are not deliberate > they affect mainly common species. That's true on the whole--but it would be more accurate to say 'common, or _locally_ common, species'. I remember my surprise in 1990 when I found road-killed _Erebia occulta_ (very rare in collections) at one point on the Teller Road, Seward Peninsula, Alaska. It turned out the road ran right through the habitat (fine gravel scree) of the species, which can be quite abundant in good habitat. Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu From langprac at gol.com Sat May 20 06:05:11 2000 From: langprac at gol.com (Kuniomi Matsumoto) Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:05:11 +0900 Subject: updating these butterfly name from Japan. Message-ID: <01bfc242$e308d460$LocalHost@-------b> Hi Paul, > I have been going over some nymphalids in my collection and have come >across the following: > >Melitaea phoebe mandarina >Mellicta athalia niphona >Mellicta britomartis niphona. > > According to a list of the species flying in Japan (downloaded from >internet some months ago) these 3 do not figure in this list. > > Are the above 3 species known by some new name? Thanks to all. The scientific names of the three species belonging to the two genera, _Melitaea_ and _Mellicta_, are as follows according to Inomata's "Keys to the Japanese Butterflies in Natural Color," (1990). _Melitaea scotosia_ _Melitaea regama_ _Mellicta britomartis niphona_ The butterfly now known as _Mellicta britomartis niphona_ went through the following changes of the status. They are in chronological order. _Melitaea athalia niphona_ _Mellicta ambigua_ _Mellicta athalia niphona_ _Mellicta britomartis niphona_ If "A List of Butterflies from Japan" by Matsuka's is the list you downloaded, you find _ambigua_ in it. Verity considered the east Asian subspecies of '_athalia_' was a separate species and gave the name to it in 1940. I couldn't find any literature where _phoebe_ is used for any of the three Japanese species, but _Melitaea phoebe_ from Europe looks very much like _scotosia_. So my guess is what you have in your collection are _Melitaea scotosia_ and _Mellicta britomartis niphona_. Cheers, Kuni Kuniomi Matsumoto 3-3-5-1210 Hikarigaoka, Nerima-ku, Tokyo 179-0072 JAPAN E-mail: langprac at gol.com tel./fax 3938-8400 From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Fri May 19 20:03:12 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:03:12 -0400 Subject: studies of biodiversity In-Reply-To: "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" "RE: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot" (May 15, 9:32am) References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2753@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Message-ID: <1000520063543.ZM3614@Gochfeld> It's also fair in this context to mention that support for scientific research has consistently undervalues systematic studies, ecologic studies, and certainly biogeographic studies. Mike Gochfeld From nschiff at asrr.arsusda.gov Sat May 20 12:48:46 2000 From: nschiff at asrr.arsusda.gov (Nathan Schiff) Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Pyrgus centaureae wyandot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My two cents, Both specimens I have in my collection of Gyrocheilus patrobas were hit by cars. I saw them get hit, stopped, picked them up and they were in good shape so now they are in my collection. Nathan On Fri, 19 May 2000, Kenelm Philip wrote: > > > Windshield (That's windscreen in the UK) kills are not deliberate > > they affect mainly common species. > > That's true on the whole--but it would be more accurate to say 'common, > or _locally_ common, species'. I remember my surprise in 1990 when I found > road-killed _Erebia occulta_ (very rare in collections) at one point on > the Teller Road, Seward Peninsula, Alaska. It turned out the road ran right > through the habitat (fine gravel scree) of the species, which can be > quite abundant in good habitat. > > Ken Philip > fnkwp at uaf.edu > > > From wormington at juno.com Sat May 20 13:27:04 2000 From: wormington at juno.com (Alan Wormington) Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 13:27:04 -0400 Subject: normal fires & habitat Message-ID: <20000520.133131.-377993.3.Wormington@juno.com> Just a few comments about the posting below by Chris Durden regarding the region of Cape Henrietta Maria in northern Ontario, an area that I know quite well: First of all, the tundra-like habitat here is not dependant on fire for long-term presence. A narrow strip of tundra exists along the Hudson Bay coast of Ontario for the following reasons: (1) the area has perma-frost; (2) the ice on Hudson Bay often does not melt until July, which often keeps the temperature much cooler than inland sites; (3) persistant winds stronger than inland; and (4) shallow soil that is more sandy and rocky than inland areas. Most of the species listed for the area do in fact occur here, except the following: Papilio machaon (recorded only from extreme southern James Bay), Oeneis calais (no record for Ontario section of James Bay), Erebia nephele (no James Bay record), Colias pelidne (restricted to extreme southern James Bay, other records to the north in Ontario are based on misidentifications, probably of Colias palaeno), and Oeneis taygete (no confirmed record for Ontario, despite published records). Alan Wormington Leamington, Ontario On Thu, 18 May 2000 14:44:22 -0500 "Chris J. Durden" writes: > To see natural, lightning-started fires burning in sparsely > inhabited > territory over the course of a summer, see these pictures from 1998- > > http://www.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca/ccrs/tekrd/rd/apps/em/cchange/ontfire/jamesba f.h > tml > > This view shows about 48,400 sqare miles of Hudsonian and Canadian > Zone > forest, taiga, nuskeg, string-bog, esker sandplains and raised > beaches to > the southeast of Cape Henrietta Maria, Ontario. There are patches of > subtundra near the cape and north shore. Forest in the southwest > corner is > composed of seven tree species. Few people live in the area. The > Weenusk > First Nation live near the northwest shore. The Mushkegowuk Cree > Attawapiskat First Nation live near the southeast shore. European > contact > was by Thomas James in 1631. A few Hudsons Bay Company Factors, > missionaries, and military radar personnel have all come and gone. > There > are a few recreational canoe trips down the major rivers each > summer. See > also - > http:/www.ontarioparks.com/pola.html > > Some of the butterflies of the coast are: *Erynnis borealis*, > *Pyrgus > freija*, *Agriades (glandon) lacustris*, *Papilio machaon*, > *Coenonympha > (tullia) inornata*. *Oeneis taygete*, *Oeneis (chryxus) calais*, > *Boloria > (titania) boisduvalii*, *Boloria eunomia triclaris*, *Colias > palaeno*. > Some of the butterflies of the interior are: *Erynnis icelus*, > *Polites > mystic*, *Incisalia niphon*, *I. polios*, *I. augustus*, *Epidemia > dorcas*, > *E. epixanthe*, *Cupido amyntula*, *Celastrina lucia*, *Celastrina* > sp., > *Glaucopsyche lygdamus*, *Plebejides saepiolus*, *Lycaeides idas*, > *Pterourus canadensis*, *Erebia (mancina) nephele*, *Oeneis (jutta) > harperi*, *Oe. (jutta) ascerta*, *Phyciodes morpheus arctica*, > *Polygonia > satyrus*, *P. progne*, *P. gracilis*, *P. faunus*, *Nymphalis > milberti*, > *N. l-album*, *N. antiopa*, *Vanessa atalanta*, *V. virginiensis*, > *Speyeria atlantis*, *Boloria selene*, *B, freija*, *B. titania*, > *B. > frigga*, *B. bellona*, *B. eunomia dawsoni*, *Limenitis arthemis > rubrofasciata*, *Pieris oleracea casta*, *Pontia occidentalis*, > *Colias > philodice*, *C. interior*, *C. pelidne*. > > Two of these species, *Colias pelidne* and *Lycaeides idas* are > dependent > upon maintenance of a "fire-heath" habitat by natural fires, and > many of > the others prosper from successional vegetation after fire. > ........Chris Durden > From hankb at theriver.com Sat May 20 22:17:24 2000 From: hankb at theriver.com (Hank & Priscilla Brodkin) Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:17:24 -0700 Subject: May 20 SEABA Field Trip - Box Canyon Message-ID: <39274734.B69C92F1@theriver.com> Here are the results of the SEABA Field Trip today, 5/20 and the scouting trip on 5/16 (Doug Mullins & Hank Brodkin) to Box Canyon and the trail from the Florida Research Station in the Santa Ritas of southeastern Arizona. We had at least 20 participants and leaders Hank and Priscilla Brodkin on the field trip for a very good day considering the drought conditions this Spring. Two Wait-A-Minute Bushes (Mimosa sp.) were swarming with hundreds of butterflies and Kidneywood and Bebbia were also productive nectar sources. Fine photographic experiences were had with Deva Skippers nectaring in yellow Prickly Pear blossoms. Species seen: Pipevine Swallowtail (B. philenor), Checkered White (P. protodice) ascouting only, Mexican Yellow (E. mexicanum) scouting only, Sleepy Orange (E. nicippe), Great Purple Hairstreak (A. halesus), Gray Hairstreak (S. melinus), Marine Blue (L. marina) out by the hundreds, Ceraunus Blue (H. ceraunus), Reakirt's Blue (H. isola), Fatal Metalmark (C. arizonensis), Mormon Metalmark (A. mormo), Palmer's Metalmark (A. palmeri), American Snout (L. carinenta), Bordered Patch (C. lacinia), Elada Checkerspot (T. elada), Texas Crescent (P. texana), Red-spotted Purple (L. arthemis), Arizona Sister (A. bredowii), Tropical Leafwing (A. aidea), Tawny Emperor (A. clyton), Nabakov's Satyr (C. pyracmon hensawi), Red Satyr (M. rubricata), Queen (D. gilippus), Acacia Skipper (C. hippalus), Arizona Powdwered-Skipper (S. zampa), Funereal Duskywing (E. funeralis), Orange Skipperling (C. aurantiacus), Deva Skipper (A. deva), White-barred Skipper (A. pittacus) scouting only, Sheep Skipper (A. edwardsi). For more information about the SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association please click on the website in the sig file below. -- Hank & Priscilla Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ Lat: 31.450, Long: 110.267 SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html From llecerf at videotron.ca Sat May 20 22:04:30 2000 From: llecerf at videotron.ca (llecerf at videotron.ca) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 02:04:30 GMT Subject: Butterflies of the Australian Region by D'Abrera Message-ID: <8g7g7b$ig4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Please note that this book is for sale here : http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=335455251 Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From birdcr at concentric.net Sat May 20 22:50:25 2000 From: birdcr at concentric.net (Randy Emmitt) Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:50:25 -0400 Subject: Great butterfly day in NC! Message-ID: <39274EF1.F5F715A2@concentric.net> Folks, While a lot of our butterfliers are in south Fla. on the NABA weekend. I held down the fort in North Carolina having a great day with getting 45 species a new all time high for myself in one day! Just about everything was on white flowers including Dogbane (Apocynum cannabinum), Ox-eye Daisy (Chrysanthemum leucanthemum), Common Fleabane (Erigeron philadelphicus) and Yarrow (Achillea millefolium). I adopted Caswell County last year because it was lacking many many species and yet great butterflying. with days of 30+ species pretty common. As you can see just today I added 10 county records and had 2 species that were all time high counts for the state. American Ladies and Summer Azures were everywhere it seemed and one place I found 20 Great Spangled Fritillaries swarming in a rich bottomland forest. I`d consider these butterflies as good finds in NC: Banded Hairstreak, Eastern Pine Elfin, Northern Pearly-eye, Confused Cloudywing and pepper and Salt Skipper. Big misses were Red-banded Hairstreak, Viceroy and Monarch. I butterflied Caswell County from 11 am til 5:30 pm and it was hot in the upper 80s, very dry and sunny with a few clouds thrown in. Here`s the list Zebra Swallowtail (1) Eastern Tiger Swallowtail (7) Spicebush Swallowtail (4) Cabbage White (35) Clouded Sulphur (2) Orange Sulphur (40) Sleepy Orange (1) (very tiny) Banded Hairstreak (2) new county record! (photos of both on dogbane) Eastern Pine Elfin (3) new county record! (photos on daisies) Juniper Hairstreak (12) new state high count! (photos on daisies) Gray Hairstreak (3) Eastern Tailed Blue (8) Summer Azure (110) Variegated Fritillary (11) Great Spangled Fritillary (60) Silvery Checkerspot (2) Pearl Crescent (32) Question Mark (9) Eastern Comma (2) Mourning Cloak (1) American Lady (95) Red Admiral (2) Common Buckeye (3) Red-spotted Purple (10) Hackberry Emperor (2) new county record!(photos) Northern Pearly-eye (2) new county record! Carolina Satyr (14) Little Wood Satyr (35) new state high count! Silver-spotted Skipper (14) Hoary Edge (21) Southern Cloudywing (13) Northern Cloudywing (8) Confused Cloudywing (2) new county record! (firm ID) Zarruco Duskywing (1) new county record! Swarthy Skipper (2) new county record! Least Skipper (4) (edge of wildlife pond) Tawny Edge (2)(firm IDs) Crossline Skipper (15) Southern Broken Dash (2) new county record! Northern Broken dash (1) new county record! Little Glassywing (1) Sachem (3) Zabulon Skipper (2) Dusted Skipper (1)(edge of wildlife pond) Pepper and Salt Skipper (1) new county record!(photo on a daisy) What`s flying in your neck of the woods? Regards, Randy Emmitt Rougemont, NC www.rlephoto.com From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Sun May 21 00:28:17 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:28:17 -0400 Subject: Great butterfly day in NC! In-Reply-To: Randy Emmitt "Great butterfly day in NC!" (May 20, 10:50pm) References: <39274EF1.F5F715A2@concentric.net> Message-ID: <1000521002822.ZM3638@Gochfeld> Randy Greetings from South Florida. Fascinating report. Although the flowers you mention are all reputed to be good for butterflies, we NEVER see anything on Yarrow or Fleabane (Saltmarsh Fleabane is an exception), and rarely on Ox-eye Daisy. Dogbane can be terrific in some places and a dud in other places (maybe due to a diurnal cycle or local variation in nectar production). We have been stressing for years that there is tremendous spatial (as well as temporal) variability in the use of flowers of a given species by butterflies. M. Gochfeld From alfosphinx at iol.it Sun May 21 08:40:58 2000 From: alfosphinx at iol.it (AI) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:40:58 GMT Subject: Prova invio messaggio Message-ID: Prova invio messaggio AI From birdcr at concentric.net Sun May 21 12:52:38 2000 From: birdcr at concentric.net (Randy Emmitt) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:52:38 -0400 Subject: Butterfly Page with Translator! Message-ID: <39281456.F27FE0DB@concentric.net> Folks, I spent all morning working on converting my page "Butterflies Found in North Carolina" to a simpler format so the Babel Fish translator would read it. Now hopefully the site can be read in French, German, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish without to much trouble. Doing so also cut the page size from 51kb to 16kb which should make it faster for those with slower modems. And now the entire list can be copied and pasted to make a state list as well if you visit here. Please if you will give me some input on how well the translator reads? Randy Emmitt Rougemont, NC http://www.rlephoto.com From Leptraps at aol.com Sun May 21 22:02:50 2000 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:02:50 EDT Subject: NABA Field Trips in South Florida Message-ID: <5b.621efeb.2659ef4a@aol.com> I have never directly attacked NABA nor it's members, I was once a member myself. I have gladly provided information to a member organizing the field trips. This information is the result of hours of field work collecting and observing Lepidoptera. I received several telephone calls Sunday evening informing me that during one of the field trips to an area near Port Mayaca in Martin County, a location that I provided, NABA members found several of my bait traps, one of which they destroyed and others were taken. I received permission from the land owner to collect and hang bait trap, and even allow others, (NABA) to look for butterflies. What a wonderful reward one receive when he helps those who claim not to be opposed to collecting. My efforts to survey the Lepidoptera of South Florida requires time, effort and money. The results of those efforts are a record of what occurs in south Florida. My trap work along the Sugar Ridge of Lake Okeechobee (The Sugar Ridge extends from west of the town of Okeechobee all the way into northern Palm Beach County) has produced 533 species of Butterflies and moths in Bait Traps, Light Traps and Pheromone Traps. I, along with Bob Beiriger and Dave Fine have put forth a great effort to monitor the traps and record the species that are collected in the traps. May I also make note that Bait Traps are live traps. Only selected individuals are taken for records. I believe that the action of the NABA members responsible for destroying and taking my bait traps are a childish prank and demonstrate a total lack of responsibility. They act like children! It shows their true face to serious Lepidopterists''. This is my reward for freely giving help to insure that NABA members have a great meeting. I am sure that this will stir the coals and fuel the fires over the collecting issue. I apologize if it does. Cheers, Leroy C. Koehn 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 Hm: 561-966-1655 Cell: 561-301-4215 E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From hankb at theriver.com Sun May 21 23:58:12 2000 From: hankb at theriver.com (Hank & Priscilla Brodkin) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:58:12 -0700 Subject: NABA Field Trips in South Florida References: <5b.621efeb.2659ef4a@aol.com> Message-ID: <3928B054.E57828AC@theriver.com> Leptraps at aol.com wrote: > > I have never directly attacked NABA nor it's members, I was once a member > myself. I have gladly provided information to a member organizing the field > trips. This information is the result of hours of field work collecting and > observing Lepidoptera. > I received several telephone calls Sunday evening informing me that during > one of the field trips to an area near Port Mayaca in Martin County, a > location that I provided, NABA members found several of my bait traps, one of > which they destroyed and others were taken. > (portion deleted) Leroy - We know this may be wearing thin - but believe me, only a small minority of NABA members - whose "I know better" attitudes are fanned by those who should know better - would be involved in this type of really stupid and probably illegal action. I will plead here that the NABA leadership and board of directors condemn this action, publicly apologize to Leroy, and ask those responsible to resign from the organization. -- Hank & Priscilla Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ Lat: 31.450, Long: 110.267 SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html From viceroy at anu.ie Mon May 22 01:22:18 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 06:22:18 +0100 Subject: NABA Field Trips in South Florida References: <5b.621efeb.2659ef4a@aol.com> <3928B054.E57828AC@theriver.com> Message-ID: <3928C40A.9BF19AB@anu.ie> I agree absolutely. I don't think it's childish malice, however, so much as ignorant sentimentality that would cause the destruction of these traps. There are still a lot of butterfly enjoyers who are not enlightened as to the usefulness of collectors to the study of leps and even to the continuing existence of endangered species. I think, tired as we all are of the collecting debate, that it does introduce newcomers to the world of scientists. "Poets" don't always see the big picture, but, with patience, they can be persuaded to accept it. As this was presumably a supervised field trip, I wonder why the leaders didn't defend the traps and explain their purpose. Instead of demanding the resignation of the vandals, I'd like to see them educated. An article in the NABA magazine, explaining Leroy's project and purpose, accompanied by their response and apology, would better satisfy my sense of justice. Anne Kilmer South Florida and Mayo, Ireland Hank & Priscilla Brodkin wrote: > > Leptraps at aol.com wrote: > > > > I have never directly attacked NABA nor it's members, I was once a member > > myself. I have gladly provided information to a member organizing the field > > trips. This information is the result of hours of field work collecting and > > observing Lepidoptera. > > I received several telephone calls Sunday evening informing me that during > > one of the field trips to an area near Port Mayaca in Martin County, a > > location that I provided, NABA members found several of my bait traps, one of > > which they destroyed and others were taken. > > > (portion deleted) > > Leroy - > We know this may be wearing thin - but believe me, only a small minority > of NABA members - whose "I know better" attitudes are fanned by those > who should know better - would be involved in this type of really stupid > and probably illegal action. I will plead here that the NABA leadership > and board of directors condemn this action, publicly apologize to Leroy, > and ask those responsible to resign from the organization. > > -- > Hank & Priscilla Brodkin > Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ > Lat: 31.450, Long: 110.267 > SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association > http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Mon May 22 01:38:46 2000 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:38:46 -0700 Subject: NABA Field Trips in South Florida Message-ID: <007301bfc3b0$3783ace0$75dcc2cf@cguppy> Like Anne I doubt that this was a childish prank. It seems more likely to be deliberate destruction to prevent Leroy from collecting with the trap. Since it was a NABA organized field trip, lead by NABA leaders, and the motivation to destroy the trap likely resulted from NABA's anti-collecting attitude, an apology from NABA seems to be in order. -----Original Message----- From: Leptraps at aol.com To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu Cc: robert.beiriger at worldnet.att.net ; Vladnuts at aol.com ; LASMARIPOSAS at prodigy.net ; philjs at mail.utexas.edu ; slotten at ccgnv.net Date: May 21, 2000 7:09 PM Subject: RE: NABA Field Trips in South Florida >I have never directly attacked NABA nor it's members, I was once a member >myself. I have gladly provided information to a member organizing the field >trips. This information is the result of hours of field work collecting and >observing Lepidoptera. > >I received several telephone calls Sunday evening informing me that during >one of the field trips to an area near Port Mayaca in Martin County, a >location that I provided, NABA members found several of my bait traps, one of >which they destroyed and others were taken. > >I received permission from the land owner to collect and hang bait trap, and >even allow others, (NABA) to look for butterflies. What a wonderful reward >one receive when he helps those who claim not to be opposed to collecting. My >efforts to survey the Lepidoptera of South Florida requires time, effort and >money. The results of those efforts are a record of what occurs in south >Florida. My trap work along the Sugar Ridge of Lake Okeechobee (The Sugar >Ridge extends from west of the town of Okeechobee all the way into northern >Palm Beach County) has produced 533 species of Butterflies and moths in Bait >Traps, Light Traps and Pheromone Traps. I, along with Bob Beiriger and Dave >Fine have put forth a great effort to monitor the traps and record the >species that are collected in the traps. May I also make note that Bait Traps >are live traps. Only selected individuals are taken for records. > >I believe that the action of the NABA members responsible for destroying and >taking my bait traps are a childish prank and demonstrate a total lack of >responsibility. They act like children! It shows their true face to serious >Lepidopterists''. This is my reward for freely giving help to insure that >NABA members have a great meeting. > >I am sure that this will stir the coals and fuel the fires over the >collecting issue. I apologize if it does. > >Cheers, > >Leroy C. Koehn >6085 Wedgewood Village Circle >Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 >Hm: 561-966-1655 >Cell: 561-301-4215 >E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com > > > > > > > > From viceroy at anu.ie Mon May 22 01:49:23 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 06:49:23 +0100 Subject: NABA Field Trips in South Florida References: <5b.621efeb.2659ef4a@aol.com> Message-ID: <3928CA63.CCB26D11@anu.ie> Dear Leroy, As a founding member of the Atala chapter, I would like to apologize to you personally for the ignorant and sentimental action of the butterfly lovers. It was not as grand an act of vandalism as the one that set loose hundreds of mink from a mink farm in Britain, but it expressed a similar ignorance. There are people who can't stand the sight of butterflies in a cage. I am one of them, and my interest in the butterfly club was greatly reduced when they started stocking a cage of butterflies to display at garden sales, and even kept one in a mall, where there were more butterflies than the nectar available would support, and dead butterflies had to be removed daily. I suspect that if your cage had held only moths, no butterflies, it would not have been touched. Sentimentality is not the most admirable of our motivations, is it. I hope that NABA and its local members will replace your traps, although we can in no way make up for the work you've lost. And, if there is a next time, may I suggest that either you keep an eye on your traps, or remove them before you invite the public in ... unless the field trip leader undertakes specifically to protect them. For the ignorant we have always with us. Yours Anne Kilmer South Florida Leptraps at aol.com wrote: > > I have never directly attacked NABA nor it's members, I was once a member > myself. I have gladly provided information to a member organizing the field > trips. This information is the result of hours of field work collecting and > observing Lepidoptera. > > I received several telephone calls Sunday evening informing me that during > one of the field trips to an area near Port Mayaca in Martin County, a > location that I provided, NABA members found several of my bait traps, one of > which they destroyed and others were taken. > > I received permission from the land owner to collect and hang bait trap, and > even allow others, (NABA) to look for butterflies. What a wonderful reward > one receive when he helps those who claim not to be opposed to collecting. My > efforts to survey the Lepidoptera of South Florida requires time, effort and > money. The results of those efforts are a record of what occurs in south > Florida. My trap work along the Sugar Ridge of Lake Okeechobee (The Sugar > Ridge extends from west of the town of Okeechobee all the way into northern > Palm Beach County) has produced 533 species of Butterflies and moths in Bait > Traps, Light Traps and Pheromone Traps. I, along with Bob Beiriger and Dave > Fine have put forth a great effort to monitor the traps and record the > species that are collected in the traps. May I also make note that Bait Traps > are live traps. Only selected individuals are taken for records. > > I believe that the action of the NABA members responsible for destroying and > taking my bait traps are a childish prank and demonstrate a total lack of > responsibility. They act like children! It shows their true face to serious > Lepidopterists''. This is my reward for freely giving help to insure that > NABA members have a great meeting. > > I am sure that this will stir the coals and fuel the fires over the > collecting issue. I apologize if it does. > > Cheers, > > Leroy C. Koehn > 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle > Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 > Hm: 561-966-1655 > Cell: 561-301-4215 > E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From viceroy at anu.ie Mon May 22 03:20:04 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:20:04 +0100 Subject: NABA Field Trips in South Florida References: <007301bfc3b0$3783ace0$75dcc2cf@cguppy> Message-ID: <3928DFA4.D04F7FE1@anu.ie> I don't like to have my name added to a NABA-bashing episode. I would like to point out that the Brodkins and I, who have articulated our distress at this incident, are NABA members, active in the organization. I cannot imagine that any NABA officers would approve of vandalism. Cheers Anne Kilmer Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer wrote: > > Like Anne I doubt that this was a childish prank. It seems more likely to be > deliberate destruction to prevent Leroy from collecting with the trap. Since > it was a NABA organized field trip, lead by NABA leaders, and the motivation > to destroy the trap likely resulted from NABA's anti-collecting attitude, an > apology from NABA seems to be in order. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leptraps at aol.com > To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > Cc: robert.beiriger at worldnet.att.net ; > Vladnuts at aol.com ; LASMARIPOSAS at prodigy.net > ; philjs at mail.utexas.edu ; > slotten at ccgnv.net > Date: May 21, 2000 7:09 PM > Subject: RE: NABA Field Trips in South Florida > > >I have never directly attacked NABA nor it's members, I was once a member > >myself. I have gladly provided information to a member organizing the field > >trips. This information is the result of hours of field work collecting and > >observing Lepidoptera. > > > >I received several telephone calls Sunday evening informing me that during > >one of the field trips to an area near Port Mayaca in Martin County, a > >location that I provided, NABA members found several of my bait traps, one > of > >which they destroyed and others were taken. > > > >I received permission from the land owner to collect and hang bait trap, > and > >even allow others, (NABA) to look for butterflies. What a wonderful reward > >one receive when he helps those who claim not to be opposed to collecting. > My > >efforts to survey the Lepidoptera of South Florida requires time, effort > and > >money. The results of those efforts are a record of what occurs in south > >Florida. My trap work along the Sugar Ridge of Lake Okeechobee (The Sugar > >Ridge extends from west of the town of Okeechobee all the way into northern > >Palm Beach County) has produced 533 species of Butterflies and moths in > Bait > >Traps, Light Traps and Pheromone Traps. I, along with Bob Beiriger and Dave > >Fine have put forth a great effort to monitor the traps and record the > >species that are collected in the traps. May I also make note that Bait > Traps > >are live traps. Only selected individuals are taken for records. > > > >I believe that the action of the NABA members responsible for destroying > and > >taking my bait traps are a childish prank and demonstrate a total lack of > >responsibility. They act like children! It shows their true face to serious > >Lepidopterists''. This is my reward for freely giving help to insure that > >NABA members have a great meeting. > > > >I am sure that this will stir the coals and fuel the fires over the > >collecting issue. I apologize if it does. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Leroy C. Koehn > >6085 Wedgewood Village Circle > >Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 > >Hm: 561-966-1655 > >Cell: 561-301-4215 > >E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From nowitkow at cyf-kr.edu.pl Mon May 22 06:30:54 2000 From: nowitkow at cyf-kr.edu.pl (Zbigniew Witkowski) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:30:54 +0200 Subject: Odp: Extirpation/reintroduction References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2779@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Message-ID: <8gb22h$23h$1@info.cyf-kr.edu.pl> Hello I have a good news from Poland. There were two population of apollo butterfly in Polish Carpathians. One of them in the Tatra Mts was probably extirpated and the other in the Pieniny Mts was recovered since 1991. We have started fron one population of about 20 adult butterflies. Now after 9 yoears of the project tehre are about 1000 imagoes on more than dozen localities. We still aren't sure that the population is saved but there is local captive breeding programme. see on http://botan.ib-pan.krakow.pl/przyroda/index.htm -- ___________________________________ Prof. dr Zbigniew Witkowski Institute of Nature Conservation Polish Academy of Sciences ul. Lubicz 46; 31- 512 Krakow e-mail nowitkow at cyf-kr.edu.pl ______________________________ U?ytkownik Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych napisa?:60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2779 at blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA... > With larger animals there are examples where time and money has been/is > being spent to reintroduce species to parts of their range where they have > been extirpated in the past. A present day example is the Swift Fox on the > Canadian prairie (well, whats left of it anyway). I seem to even vaguely > recall some efforts along these lines with the Karner Blue. I would welcome > information on this topic for butterflies; and especially any good news > examples where this has been successful. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. > Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment > 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 > Phone 250-365-8610 > Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca > http://www.env.gov.bc.ca > From RHH74 at aol.com Mon May 22 12:47:54 2000 From: RHH74 at aol.com (RHH74 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:47:54 EDT Subject: Butterfly info Message-ID: <9e.4c690f2.265abeba@aol.com> Could someone please give me information on a butterfly known by the common name of "THE LURCHER". I would like to find out about it's location, name origin, etc... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Rich Henry From rworth at oda.state.or.us Mon May 22 13:50:01 2000 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:50:01 -0700 Subject: Great butterfly day in OR! In-Reply-To: <1000521002822.ZM3638@Gochfeld> References: <39274EF1.F5F715A2@concentric.net> <1000521002822.ZM3638@Gochfeld> Message-ID: Leps-lers, Actually, we only saw 4 species here in the butterfly desert of the Willamette Valley (3 if you don't count P. rapae) but of those, one was Fender's Blue, recently listed as federally endangered (other species were Coenonympha tullia or whatever it is and Glaucopsyche lygdamus). The Kincaid's Lupine was at peak bloom and there were several males and females in good shape flying. Got a few pics of a male that should be good. Got pics of females laying eggs last year. Which brings me to the point of collecting or not? I collect where I can and where I can't, I bring a camera. I think it's a great balance, I can "collect" sensitive species on film, and I'm out doing what I love either way. The people that trashed Leroy's traps should be ashamed and should at the very least apologize and pay him for the traps. It's going to be tough to replace the work done and the lost data. Happy leps to all... Rich Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1065 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000522/fc937de5/attachment.bin From ciprit at snip.net Mon May 22 13:42:34 2000 From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:42:34 -0400 Subject: Butterfly Page with Translator! References: <39281456.F27FE0DB@concentric.net> Message-ID: <3929718A.E2DE0414@snip.net> Randy, For some reason, "I'm" is not translating to Spanish. Try "I am." Also, "check it out" seems to be too idiomatic to translate very well. As for the butterfly names on your site, they may be translating correctly, but you may want a Spanish-speaking lepidopterist to look at your page. Other than those comments, the translation looked good enough to get the gist, or better, in Spanish. I'd be happy to look at your site in Spanish again, if you make any changes. Christina Randy Emmitt wrote: > Folks, > > I spent all morning working on converting my page "Butterflies Found in > North Carolina" to a simpler format so the Babel Fish translator would > read it. Now hopefully the site can be read in French, German, Italian, > Portuguese and Spanish without to much trouble. Doing so also cut the > page size from 51kb to 16kb which should make it faster for those with > slower modems. And now the entire list can be copied and pasted to make > a state list as well if you visit here. > > Please if you will give me some input on how well the translator reads? > > Randy Emmitt > Rougemont, NC > http://www.rlephoto.com From ciprit at snip.net Mon May 22 13:52:03 2000 From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:52:03 -0400 Subject: Butterfly Page with Translator! References: <39281456.F27FE0DB@concentric.net>, <3929718A.E2DE0414@snip.net> Message-ID: <392973C3.36254A55@snip.net> I took a second look at your page in Spanish. "Butterflies found" is translated into Spanish as "butterflies they found." Try using "butterflies one finds." Also, you need to punctuate "...Photo of the Week it's updated...." Try "...Photo of the Week. It is updated..." Otherwise, that phrase is totally unreadable in Spanish. Christina ciprit wrote: > Randy, > For some reason, "I'm" is not translating to Spanish. Try "I am." Also, > "check it out" seems to be too idiomatic to translate very well. As for > the butterfly names on your site, they may be translating correctly, but > you may want a Spanish-speaking lepidopterist to look at your page. Other > than those comments, the translation looked good enough to get the gist, or > better, in Spanish. I'd be happy to look at your site in Spanish again, if > you make any changes. > Christina > > Randy Emmitt wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > I spent all morning working on converting my page "Butterflies Found in > > North Carolina" to a simpler format so the Babel Fish translator would > > read it. Now hopefully the site can be read in French, German, Italian, > > Portuguese and Spanish without to much trouble. Doing so also cut the > > page size from 51kb to 16kb which should make it faster for those with > > slower modems. And now the entire list can be copied and pasted to make > > a state list as well if you visit here. > > > > Please if you will give me some input on how well the translator reads? > > > > Randy Emmitt > > Rougemont, NC > > http://www.rlephoto.com From Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Mon May 22 13:56:22 2000 From: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Mon, 22 May 00 17:56:22 GMT Subject: Xerces Blue References: <66.3a1e547.2651a703@aol.com> Message-ID: <959018182snz@nwjones.demon.co.uk> In article <66.3a1e547.2651a703 at aol.com> Stelenes at aol.com writes: > In a message dated 5/15/00 9:30:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Neil at NWJONES.DEMON.CO.UK writes: > > Actually the Xerces Blue existed in two forms as I understand it . > tHe typical xerces form and the form antiacis. The latter had heavily black > centred white spots. Does anyone know how this compares with the > Palos Verdes Blue which is obviously a close relation? The Palos Verdes > has more pronounced hindwing spots which sound just like this. > For those used to latin the Palos Verdes Blue is > Glaucopsyche lygdamus palosverdesensis. > ****************************************************************************** > ******** > main host plant Palos Verdes Blue (palosverdensis): Astragalus leucopsis > host plants Behr's Blue (incognitus): more varied, probably lots of lupines > main host plant Xerces Blue (xerces): Lotus scoparius (??) > > Actually, the taxonomic comments made by Neil Jones regarding the less common > xerces forms with black centers are not incorrect, I don't think an absolute > determination as to spots is possible at this time or maybe ever. Haven't > read the new Western Systematics books comment here but would speculate that > the degree of black centers were caused by a cross breeding cline of Xerces > with Behr's Blue. The fact remains that the white spotted form, ssp., > species or whatever you wish to categorize as, is what is easy to point to as > gone - extinct. The xerces specimens in the PG museum were especially hairy > looking, though their age may have contributed to this impression as they > were also somewhat faded looking. The huge white dots upon sight made them > look quite unique, considering I never saw another Blue with no black inside > the dots. I would further speculate that the three kinds of Blues being > referred to above in the message more probably formed the advancing edge of > their evolution and their forms were effected at least as strongly by the > environments, environmentally differentiated behavior, and special aspects of > foodplants they were found in as their genetics. I might not want black dots > if I slept near the sand dunes and would welcome an all white-dot mutation. > Regarding dot size? Who knows, but the white ones were definitely more > remarkable for ID in flight....Too bad there are no more xerces around to do > the behavioral experiments which could further the understanding of this > complex. Perhaps Ms. Hammond can wait on this explanation until her students > graduate into the second grade and if we need an extinct poster child > butterfly, a holotype all-white dotted xerces is a good way to communicate > what is extinct. Then again, perhaps this is all backwards and the white > dots persist in the related type: pseudoxerces which apparently is still > around somewhere. Any info on it would be appreciated. Actually I think it was a bit more complex. Thomas C. Emmel in his book Butterflies says" Described by Boisduval is 1852, xerces was first reported to be extinct in 1884 by W, H, Edwards, an authority on North american butteflies. Apparently the forms with heavily black-centered white spots on the wings ("antiacis") were then in the majority for the thity years. The whitespotted forem s(true "xerces") where extemely rare until about 1906. The white spotted Xerces became relatively predominant again by 1911 and apparently was the more common form until the spceis disappreared thrity years later." Can anyone shed more light on this? -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve From LASMARIPOSAS at prodigy.net Tue May 23 01:24:28 2000 From: LASMARIPOSAS at prodigy.net (Alana Edwards) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:24:28 -0700 Subject: NABA Field Trips in South Florida References: <007301bfc3b0$3783ace0$75dcc2cf@cguppy> <3928DFA4.D04F7FE1@anu.ie> Message-ID: <004801bfc477$2cdd0da0$911d9cd1@8dw9l> Hi Anne and all: Alana is away for a few days taking a group on a butterflying trip down in the Keys. I (Lana Edwards, Alana's Mom) want you all to know that when Alana heard about this incident she was VERY upset. She felt that Leroy had been very helpful to her and that she had established a good relationship with him. I believe that before she left she sent an e-mail to him to assure him she knew nothing about the incident and totally disagreed with it. She knew about the traps and knew why they were there. It didn't occur to her that anyone in the NABA group would resort to destroying the property of someone else. In Leroy's e-mail he mentioned that in addition to the trap that was destroyed other traps were taken. I am not disputing his word but I was with one of the two groups that day and we saw only one trap. I believe the second group covered the same territory we did but in reverse so we wouldn't get in each others way. In that case, they probably saw the one trap we saw, which, when the first group left was still in place in spite of the fact that there were those in our small group who were not pleased to see the trap. It was not labeled in any way to let others know its purpose. At the time, I certainly didn't know who the trap belonged to and would doubt anybody in our group did. Most were from out of state. Someone in the second of our two groups, I was told, was the person responsible for the destruction of the trap. If someone called Leroy to tell him about the incident then he probably knows who the person is and the two of them should deal with this problem between them. I don't think NABA should get involved in a problem which is, obviously, between individuals. One individual CANNOT and DOES NOT speak for all of NABA. I would have preferred that our group had not seen the traps but I certainly would not promote the destruction of them and would not have chosen this method to convey my displeasure in seeing them. The planners of this conference (the officers of the Atala Chapter, myself included) had nothing to do with it.We wanted this conference, which we put a LOT of work into, to end on a positive note and this incident did not contribute to that end. I don't think there is anything more I can add to the subject. Anne is absolutely right, no NABA officers approve of vandalism. The following comment is addressed to Anne: I know the butterfly display you were referring to where butterflies were in a mall. Alana was involved in that and still has nightmares about it! People at the mall were supposed to rotate the plants and didn't do their part. Believe me, it was a lesson learned for Alana. We occasionally capture some caterpillars to use as a teaching tool but there it ends. You can be sure Alana would never be involved in anything like that again. She was totally sickened by the whole thing. As for the plant sales you mention, I know nothing about what plant sales you mean. We (Edwards family) haven't been to or been involved in any in a very long time. I don't know what other people are doing. I'm sure there are still those who think its a good thing to raise butterflies in the screened in porch and release them into the back yard. Beginning butterfly gardeners often do that. We got past that years ago and have tried to persuade others not to do it. Just wanted to make sure WE are not misunderstood. Lana Edwards ----- Original Message ----- From: anne kilmer To: Cc: ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 12:20 AM Subject: Re: NABA Field Trips in South Florida > I don't like to have my name added to a NABA-bashing episode. I would > like to point out that the Brodkins and I, who have articulated our > distress at this incident, are NABA members, active in the organization. > I cannot imagine that any NABA officers would approve of vandalism. > Cheers > Anne Kilmer > > Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer wrote: > > > > Like Anne I doubt that this was a childish prank. It seems more likely to be > > deliberate destruction to prevent Leroy from collecting with the trap. Since > > it was a NABA organized field trip, lead by NABA leaders, and the motivation > > to destroy the trap likely resulted from NABA's anti-collecting attitude, an > > apology from NABA seems to be in order. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Leptraps at aol.com > > To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > > Cc: robert.beiriger at worldnet.att.net ; > > Vladnuts at aol.com ; LASMARIPOSAS at prodigy.net > > ; philjs at mail.utexas.edu ; > > slotten at ccgnv.net > > Date: May 21, 2000 7:09 PM > > Subject: RE: NABA Field Trips in South Florida > > > > >I have never directly attacked NABA nor it's members, I was once a member > > >myself. I have gladly provided information to a member organizing the field > > >trips. This information is the result of hours of field work collecting and > > >observing Lepidoptera. > > > > > >I received several telephone calls Sunday evening informing me that during > > >one of the field trips to an area near Port Mayaca in Martin County, a > > >location that I provided, NABA members found several of my bait traps, one > > of > > >which they destroyed and others were taken. > > > > > >I received permission from the land owner to collect and hang bait trap, > > and > > >even allow others, (NABA) to look for butterflies. What a wonderful reward > > >one receive when he helps those who claim not to be opposed to collecting. > > My > > >efforts to survey the Lepidoptera of South Florida requires time, effort > > and > > >money. The results of those efforts are a record of what occurs in south > > >Florida. My trap work along the Sugar Ridge of Lake Okeechobee (The Sugar > > >Ridge extends from west of the town of Okeechobee all the way into northern > > >Palm Beach County) has produced 533 species of Butterflies and moths in > > Bait > > >Traps, Light Traps and Pheromone Traps. I, along with Bob Beiriger and Dave > > >Fine have put forth a great effort to monitor the traps and record the > > >species that are collected in the traps. May I also make note that Bait > > Traps > > >are live traps. Only selected individuals are taken for records. > > > > > >I believe that the action of the NABA members responsible for destroying > > and > > >taking my bait traps are a childish prank and demonstrate a total lack of > > >responsibility. They act like children! It shows their true face to serious > > >Lepidopterists''. This is my reward for freely giving help to insure that > > >NABA members have a great meeting. > > > > > >I am sure that this will stir the coals and fuel the fires over the > > >collecting issue. I apologize if it does. > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Leroy C. Koehn > > >6085 Wedgewood Village Circle > > >Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 > > >Hm: 561-966-1655 > > >Cell: 561-301-4215 > > >E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From llecerf at videotron.ca Mon May 22 22:24:26 2000 From: llecerf at videotron.ca (llecerf at videotron.ca) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 02:24:26 GMT Subject: Butterflies of the Australian Region by D'Abrera Message-ID: <8gcq4i$kmo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Please note that this book is for sale on Ebay : http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=335455251 Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From kruse at nature.Berkeley.EDU Mon May 22 23:16:53 2000 From: kruse at nature.Berkeley.EDU (James J. Kruse) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: NABA Field Trip in FL In-Reply-To: <004801bfc477$2cdd0da0$911d9cd1@8dw9l> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 May 2000, Alana Edwards wrote: > of them should deal with this problem between them. I don't think NABA > should get involved in a problem which is, obviously, between individuals. > One individual CANNOT and DOES NOT speak for all of NABA. I disagree. This was a NABA organized field trip, lead by NABA leaders, and this truly repulsive act of vandalism was performed by a NABA member. In the field during a field trip such as this, each individual is perceived to be an 'ambassador' for that organization, like it or not. If any of the high leadership of NABA think that this was a disgusting act that serves only to tarnish the image of NABA, then they should apologize formally and in a timely manner to Leroy (preferably Mr. Glassberg himself), if not for acknowledging legitimate science, then for public relations sake. > > I don't like to have my name added to a NABA-bashing episode. I would point out that the NABA-bashing was done by the NABA member through his/her actions. Jim Kruse University of California at Berkeley Dept. of Environ Sci, Policy and Mgmt. Div. of Insect Biology 201 Wellman Hall Berkeley, California, 94720-3112 Voice: (510) 642-7410 Fax: (510) 642-7428 http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/sperlinglab/kruse.html From jfhanlon at mediaone.net Tue May 23 00:12:35 2000 From: jfhanlon at mediaone.net (James Hanlon) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:12:35 -0700 Subject: Columbus Ohio Collection Report Message-ID: Had a nice four day business trip to Columbus, Ohio and managed to seek out a blacklighting location in a lush hilly area south of Columbus known as Tar Hollow. Eric Metzler of this group was so kind to give me detailed directions for the area. Thanks Eric. Being from the West Coast, I have always longed to see the Luna moth in flight, so my goal on this trip was to bring one in. I pulled my Hertz white Dodge Intrepid into the park area at around 6 PM and proceeded to place a white sheet along the side of the car. Naturally, the other campers in the area started looking at me with real caution wondering what the heck is this guy doing? By 9 PM after confirming with the park ranger that black lighting was OK, I connected the DC powered black light to the car battery and waited. I occasionally turned the car heater on to warm up, and then pathetically and joyously I would watch the huge bon fire a football field away, and the whole scene was feeling pretty cozy. Not quite camping with the love of your life, but I didn't care, because I was thinking about the Luna. By 1 AM, no Luna presented itself. The weather temp had cooled significantly over the last day and a half, and it just seemed a couple of weeks early. Regardless of the poor turn out, the experience was still fantastic. I had broken away from my busy work schedule and gotten outdoors. Just the suspense of waiting for a possible Luna sighting was fun in its own right. The next day, I returned to Tar Hallow and observed the following: 1.) Limenitis arthemis astyanax (Red-Spotted Purple) - Differs from the Western Red-Spotted Purple, Limenitis arthemis arizonensis) in that the forwings recto contain several red spots not found on L.a. arizonensis. Limenitis was seen flying at 15 foot hights along forest edges. Also seen mud puddling at sewage runoff near restroom building. 2.) Papilio glaucus (Eastern Tiger Swallowtail) - P. glaucus female laid two eggs on a Tuliptree (Liridendron tulipifera). The eggs were placed individually on separate leaves. Does anyone know of an easily obtainable Southern California tree that the eastern tiger would definitely feed on? P. glaucus was also seen in great numbers mud puddling in the sewage runoff on the outside of the restroom building. 3.) Papilio troilus (Spicebush Swallowtail)- Nectaring in open and cut grassy area and mud puddling near restrooms. 4.) Battus philenor (Pipe-Vine Swallowtail) Overall, a great spring day in the midwest! Jim Hanlon Los Angeles, CA From kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk Tue May 23 01:44:17 2000 From: kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk (Roger KENDRICK) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:44:17 +0800 Subject: Butterfly info References: <9e.4c690f2.265abeba@aol.com> Message-ID: <392A1AB1.5F17F6EB@hkusua.hku.hk> Try looking for details on Yoma sabina (Nymphalidae) - mentioned on several websites following a quick websearch. This is a widespread species, recorded from Burma to South China (very rare in Hong Kong), Malaya, Australia and the Solomon Islands (Marsh, 1960: Hong Kong Butterflies, Shell Compnay of Hong Kong). For more uptodate information, search out a copy of Corbet & Pendlebury's Butterflies of Peninsular Malaysia (now in its 4th or 5th edition, 1994). hope this helps, Roger. RHH74 at aol.com wrote: > Could someone please give me information on a butterfly known by the common > name of "THE LURCHER". I would like to find out about it's location, name > origin, etc... Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Rich Henry -- Roger C. KENDRICK Ph.D. Student Dept. of Ecology & Biodiversity, The University of Hong Kong mailto:kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk mailto:hkmoths at yahoo.co.uk Hong Kong Moths website coordinator http://hkusub.hku.hk/~kendrick/hkmoth.htm HK Lepidopterists' Society Website http://www.hkls.org http://hklg.163.net/ (Chinese summary) mailto:hkls at xoommail.com From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Tue May 23 02:49:40 2000 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:49:40 -0700 Subject: NABA Field Trip in FL Message-ID: <00cf01bfc483$2cfb74a0$75dcc2cf@cguppy> Anne's comment regarding NABA bashing was in response to my earlier comments, for which I apologize for having invoked Anne's name. I actually only bashed one aspect of NABA --- the anti-collecting sentiment that is promoted. Otherwise I think that NABA does a fine job of educating the public regarding butterflies, and in general I support NABA's objectives. -----Original Message----- From: James J. Kruse To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu Date: May 22, 2000 8:20 PM Subject: NABA Field Trip in FL > >On Mon, 22 May 2000, Alana Edwards wrote: > >> of them should deal with this problem between them. I don't think NABA >> should get involved in a problem which is, obviously, between individuals. >> One individual CANNOT and DOES NOT speak for all of NABA. > >I disagree. This was a NABA organized field trip, lead by NABA leaders, >and this truly repulsive act of vandalism was performed by a NABA >member. In the field during a field trip such as this, each individual is >perceived to be an 'ambassador' for that organization, like it or not. > >If any of the high leadership of NABA think that this was a disgusting act >that serves only to tarnish the image of NABA, then they should apologize >formally and in a timely manner to Leroy (preferably Mr. Glassberg >himself), if not for acknowledging legitimate science, then for public >relations sake. > >> > I don't like to have my name added to a NABA-bashing episode. > >I would point out that the NABA-bashing was done by the NABA member >through his/her actions. > >Jim Kruse >University of California at Berkeley >Dept. of Environ Sci, Policy and Mgmt. >Div. of Insect Biology >201 Wellman Hall >Berkeley, California, 94720-3112 >Voice: (510) 642-7410 Fax: (510) 642-7428 >http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/sperlinglab/kruse.html > > From dchaffee at gvi.net Tue May 23 04:23:39 2000 From: dchaffee at gvi.net (Dan Chaffee) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:23:39 GMT Subject: Columbus Ohio Collection Report References: Message-ID: <392a3a71.5318572@news.primary.net> On 22 May 2000 21:51:31 -0700, jfhanlon at mediaone.net (James Hanlon) wrote: >Being from the West Coast, I have always longed to see the Luna moth in >flight, so my goal on this trip was to bring one in. Yeh, I know just where you're coming from. I grew up just south of Sacramento and dreamed of seeing the big saturnids floating on the air of a warm, humid night. Polyphemus and H. euryalis were all I new in those days, and not many at that. Then I moved to Kansas City 16 years ago. Lunas all over the place, except the city itself, cecropias, polyphemuses , imperials, Ios are not hard to find in my semi-rural location. But lunas are the commonest of all- to be found on the vapor lights. One night I counted five at one of my lights! It's even easy to find the larvae on the walnut trees in my yard. I only wish promethea flew here, as it once did. In another month, the pandora sphinxes will be buzzing around my mimosa trees.... Anyway, having collected and raised species on the west coast, it wasn't nearly as fun as what I get to see here; it's still exotic to me. I've lived in four locations in the Plains/Midwest, and none have I seen the numbers of different species I see in the KC area. The chiggers and ticks are another story.... Dan Chaffee From JADAMS at em.daltonstate.edu Tue May 23 09:53:47 2000 From: JADAMS at em.daltonstate.edu (DR. JAMES ADAMS) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:53:47 -0400 Subject: NABA Field Trip in FL In-Reply-To: References: <004801bfc477$2cdd0da0$911d9cd1@8dw9l> Message-ID: <200005231348.JAA19526@dr-who.daltonstate.edu> Dear Listers, IAlthough you may not be able to blame an entire organization for the missteps of individuals (though that doesn't mean that someone higher up in NABA shouldn't apologize to Leroy), I would like to suggest that any members that were on the field trip and stood placidly by while other members destroyed the traps are just as much to blame and should also be held accountable. james Dr. James K. Adams Dept. of Natural Science and Math Dalton State College 213 N. College Drive Dalton, GA 30720 Phone: (706)272-4427; fax: (706)272-2533 U of Michigan's President James Angell's Secret of Success: "Grow antennae, not horns" From acynor at fullerton.edu Tue May 23 11:10:49 2000 From: acynor at fullerton.edu (Anthony W. Cynor) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:10:49 -0700 Subject: Columbus Ohio Collection Report References: Message-ID: <392A9F79.35FD6D91@fullerton.edu> > > 2.) Papilio glaucus (Eastern Tiger Swallowtail) - P. glaucus female laid two > eggs on a Tuliptree (Liridendron tulipifera). The eggs were placed > individually on separate leaves. Does anyone know of an easily obtainable > Southern California tree that the eastern tiger would definitely feed on? Try various Ash Trees. Tony From hankb at theriver.com Tue May 23 12:30:49 2000 From: hankb at theriver.com (Hank & Priscilla Brodkin) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:30:49 -0700 Subject: Garden Canyon, Fort Huachuca, AZ Message-ID: <392AB239.30069C9E@theriver.com> On May 22 we butterflied Garden Canyon and Barcus Ranch in the Huachucas of Cochise County, Arizona, with Herb and Olga Clarke of Los Angeles. We were there from 7:30 AM to 3:00 PM. The weather was partly cloudy and hot. New Mexican Locust and False Indigo seemed to be the chief attractants. Species seen: Pipevine Swallowtail (B. philenor), Checkered White (P. protodice), Southern Dogface (C. cessonia), Mexican Yellow (E. mexicanum), Sleepy Orange (E. nicippe), Dainty Sulphur (N. iole), Great Purple Hairstreak (A. halesus), Juniper Hairstreak (C. gryneus), Gray Hairstreak (S. melinus), Marine Blue (L. marina), Ceraunus Blue (H. ceraunus), Reakirt's Blue (H. isola), Spring Azure (C. argiolus), Bordered Patch (C. lacinia), Texan Crescent (P. texana), Painted crescent (P. pictus) at Barcus Ranch, Mourning Cloak (N. antiopa), American Lady (V. virginiensis), Red-spotted Purple (L. arthemis), Arizona Sister (A. bredowii), Tropical Leafwing (A. aidea) 2, Nabakov's Satyr (C. pyracom), Canyonland Satyr (C. pertepida), Red Satyr (M. rubricata), Queen (D. gilippus), Silver-spotted Skipper (E. clarus), Desert Cloudywing (A. casica), Northern Cloudywing (T. pylades), Funereal Duskywing (E. funeralis), Orange Skipperling (C. aurantiacus), Deva Skipper (A. deva), Python Skipper (A. python). -- Hank & Priscilla Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ Lat: 31.450, Long: 110.267 SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html From naba at naba.org Tue May 23 17:41:59 2000 From: naba at naba.org (NABA) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:41:59 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <000c01bfc4ff$baa8ea40$10747bd1@gruff> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000523/05677274/attachment.html From naba at naba.org Tue May 23 19:30:35 2000 From: naba at naba.org (NABA) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:30:35 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <001301bfc50e$e77e6ea0$87757bd1@gruff> Earlier today, the following message was intended to be copied to this address, but an empty message was inadvertantly sent instead. Dear Mr. Koehn, Alana Edwards forwarded to me your email in which you state that you have received telephone calls informing you that a NABA member destroyed a trap and removed others that you had placed near Port Mayaca. Please be assured that if such actions did in fact take place, they were in no way encouraged nor condoned by NABA. I have seen some of the same second and third hand information that you have seen, stating that a NABA member did interfere with one of your traps. If you do have convincing information that a particular individual destroyed your trap, I encourage you to take this matter up with them directly, if you so desire. If a NABA member participating on one of these field trips did destroy or take a trap belonging to you, then I sincerely apologize on behalf of NABA for their behavior. A few groups of NABA members did visit an area near Port Mayaca in conjunction with the NABA Members Meeting being held in nearby West Palm Beach, Florida. I, myself led the first group of approximately 16 people to this area on Friday, May 18. You mention that you had placed a number of traps in this area, but I noticed only a single trap placed in a tree. Since my group was the first NABA field trip group to visit the site, it is entirely possible that other, non-NABA people removed some of them. As you probably know, bait traps can attract all sorts of attention. The first traps that Bob Robbins and I placed near the Amazon River in 1970 were cut down and stolen the first day out. Very few of the people in my group remarked about the trap and certainly none did anything to disturb it. Personally, I had no idea as to whom the trap belonged or for what purpose it were there, but assumed (apparently not entirely correctly) that any butterflies trapped would be released. A few other groups visited the same area when I was not present. To reiterate, NABA does not condone the destruction of others? property and if a NABA member was involved in such destruction during a NABA-led field trip, then we apologize for that individual?s unwarranted, unauthorized and unacceptable behavior. Sincerely, Jeffrey Glassberg President: NABA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000523/65897ed4/attachment.html From automeris at tin.it Wed May 24 02:10:39 2000 From: automeris at tin.it (Atlas) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:10:39 +0200 Subject: R: Prova invio messaggio References: Message-ID: <8gfrj4$4k0$1@nslave1.tin.it> Sei il primo italiano che trovo in questo newsgroup! Mario AI wrote in message uPQV4.20125$EY1.217738 at news.infostrada.it... > Prova invio messaggio > AI > > From bnotebaert at hotmail.com Wed May 24 03:07:13 2000 From: bnotebaert at hotmail.com (Bastiaan Notebaert) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:07:13 +0200 Subject: Extirpation/reintroduction References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2779@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Message-ID: <20000524070802.83060.qmail@hotmail.com> Maes & Van Dyck * (p. 427 - 431) have also a chapter on reintroduction. First of all, there is a difference between local introduction and introduction: in the first case the species is not extinct in the entire country but only in a part of the country (where it is reintroduced). Before considering reintroduction there are six neitems which need verification (according to Maes & Van Dyck): 1. the reintroduction has to contribute to regional or international preservation of the species 2. the species had a population in the habitat and was extirpated by humans 3. the demands on specific habitats for the species are known and a conservation plan can ensure that these demands will be there in future; there have to be also several other suitable habitats in the area to allow the species to expand (metapopulation) 4. you know why the species disappeared and these causes aren't any more present 5. it should be possible to make the habitat suitable 6. before reintroduction there has to be scientific research on the ecology of the species; after reintroduction you should follow the species during several years; before you start the reintroduction you should have enough money to ensure the scientific background for the reintroduction In Europe England has the longest introduction past: more than 1000 known cases! Mostly they weren't successful because they where not enough prepared and executed by private persons.Known cases of successful introduction in Great Britain are: - Moore & Pullin 1997: Carterocephalus palaemon - Thomas JA 1974: Satyrium pruni - Thomas JA 1987: Maculinea arion - Thomas CD 1985: Plebeius argus - Warren 1992: Melitaea athalia and not successfully were the well prepared cases off Lycaena dispar and Iphiclides podalirius. In Holland Maculinea teleius and Maculinea nausithous was reintroduced in 1990 in Noord-Brabant with success and also private introductions had success: Errynis tages and Carcharodus alceae. More recent the reintroduction of Boloria selene and Melitaea athalia was good prepared, and the first results are good. In Flanders (North-Belgium) there were no official reintroductions so far, but the introduction of 5 species is being considered, among them Maculinea teleius which was introduced in a nearby area in Holland.For local reintroduction five other species qualify. In the past there were at least three species introduced by private persons. In Walloon (South-Belgium) Euphydryas aurinia was reintroduced in 1994, and the first results are hopeful. Bastiaan Notebaert http://www.geocities.com/notebas *: Maes D. & Van Dyck H., 1999, Dagvlinders in Vlaanderen - Ecologie, verspreiding en behoud; Stichting leefmilieu/Antwerpen i.s.m. Instituut voor natuurbehoud en Vlaamse Vlinderwerkgroep/Brussel. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX To: 'lepsl' Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 5:36 PM Subject: Extirpation/reintroduction > With larger animals there are examples where time and money has been/is > being spent to reintroduce species to parts of their range where they have > been extirpated in the past. A present day example is the Swift Fox on the > Canadian prairie (well, whats left of it anyway). I seem to even vaguely > recall some efforts along these lines with the Karner Blue. I would welcome > information on this topic for butterflies; and especially any good news > examples where this has been successful. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. > Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment > 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 > Phone 250-365-8610 > Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca > http://www.env.gov.bc.ca > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000524/b4d45056/attachment.html From niklas.wahlberg at helsinki.fi Wed May 24 03:39:02 2000 From: niklas.wahlberg at helsinki.fi (Niklas Wahlberg) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:39:02 +0300 Subject: Extirpation/reintroduction References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2779@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> <20000524070802.83060.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <392B8716.45E317A9@helsinki.fi> To add to the list of Bastiaan: Proclossiana eunomia apparently very successfully introduced to central France (Neve et al 1996, J. Appl. Ecol. 33:14-22). The sad case of Pseudophilotes baton in Finland (Marttila et al 1997, Ann. Zool. Fenn. 34:177-185), which failed last year because there was in effect only one habitat patch. An experimental introduction of Melitaea cinxia to an empty network of 17 habitat patches has been successful (has persisted for 8 years) (Hanski 1999, Metapopulation Ecology). Reintroductions are being planned in Finland for several insect species, though I have to say that I am a bit sceptical of their success. If an insect species has gone extinct from a certain region, it usually means that there is not enough habitat available. Recreating enough habitat would mean lots of bucks, which those doing the introductions don't usually have. If resources are limited the priority should be in conserving existing populations rather than mainly wasting money on unsuccessful reintroductions. Cheers, Niklas > Bastiaan Notebaert wrote: > > Maes & Van Dyck * (p. 427 - 431) have also a chapter on > reintroduction. First of all, there is a difference between local > introduction and introduction: in the first case the species is not > extinct in the entire country but only in a part of the country (where > it is reintroduced). > Before considering reintroduction there are six neitems which need > verification (according to Maes & Van Dyck): > 1. the reintroduction has to contribute to regional or international > preservation of the species > 2. the species had a population in the habitat and was extirpated by > humans > 3. the demands on specific habitats for the species are known and a > conservation plan can ensure that these demands will be there in > future; there have to be also several other suitable habitats in the > area to allow the species to expand (metapopulation) > 4. you know why the species disappeared and these causes aren't any > more present > 5. it should be possible to make the habitat suitable > 6. before reintroduction there has to be scientific research on the > ecology of the species; after reintroduction you should follow the > species during several years; before you start the reintroduction you > should have enough money to ensure the scientific background for the > reintroduction > > In Europe England has the longest introduction past: more than 1000 > known cases! Mostly they weren't successful because they where not > enough prepared and executed by private persons.Known cases of > successful introduction in Great Britain are: > - Moore & Pullin 1997: Carterocephalus palaemon > - Thomas JA 1974: Satyrium pruni > - Thomas JA 1987: Maculinea arion > - Thomas CD 1985: Plebeius argus > - Warren 1992: Melitaea athalia > and not successfully were the well prepared cases off Lycaena dispar > and Iphiclides podalirius. > In Holland Maculinea teleius and Maculinea nausithous was reintroduced > in 1990 in Noord-Brabant with success and also private introductions > had success: Errynis tages and Carcharodus alceae. More recent the > reintroduction of Boloria selene and Melitaea athalia was good > prepared, and the first results are good. > In Flanders (North-Belgium) there were no official reintroductions so > far, but the introduction of 5 species is being considered, among them > Maculinea teleius which was introduced in a nearby area in Holland.For > local reintroduction five other species qualify. In the past there > were at least three species introduced by private persons. In Walloon > (South-Belgium) Euphydryas aurinia was reintroduced in 1994, and the > first results are hopeful. > > Bastiaan Notebaert > http://www.geocities.com/notebas > > *: Maes D. & Van Dyck H., 1999, Dagvlinders in Vlaanderen - Ecologie, > verspreiding en behoud; Stichting leefmilieu/Antwerpen i.s.m. > Instituut voor natuurbehoud en Vlaamse Vlinderwerkgroep/Brussel. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX > To: 'lepsl' > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 5:36 PM > Subject: Extirpation/reintroduction > > > With larger animals there are examples where time and money has > been/is > > being spent to reintroduce species to parts of their range where > they have > > been extirpated in the past. A present day example is the Swift Fox > on the > > Canadian prairie (well, whats left of it anyway). I seem to even > vaguely > > recall some efforts along these lines with the Karner Blue. I would > welcome > > information on this topic for butterflies; and especially any good > news > > examples where this has been successful. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. > > Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment > > 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 > > Phone 250-365-8610 > > Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca > > http://www.env.gov.bc.ca > > > > -- ________________________________________________________________________ Niklas Wahlberg Metapopulation Research Group Department of Ecology and Systematics Division of Population Biology PO Box 17 (Arkadiankatu 7) 00014 University of Helsinki Finland p. +358-9-191 7378, fax +358-9-191 7301 ! ! NEW PHONE AND FAX NUMBERS AFTER 12 JUNE 2000 p. +358-9-191 28778, fax +358-9-191 28701 ! ! Check out our web-site: http://www.helsinki.fi/science/metapop/ From jmh at proaxis.com Tue May 23 23:10:03 2000 From: jmh at proaxis.com (Patricia and Jeff Harding) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:10:03 -0500 Subject: Green Hairstreaks in Southwest Oregon Message-ID: <000201bfc56c$87876340$10c46ac6@jmh> Dan Thackaberry and I toured the southern coast range in Oregon over the last weekend, looking for butterflies. We found green Hairstreaks (Callophrys sp) in four of the five counties we visited, including Douglas, Coos, Curry and Jackson. They seemed to appear almost everywhere we stopped, or at least every other station. I'm unsure as to species, especially since what we thought before was Callophrys dumetorum seems to be affinis or sheridani. Most of the individuals had a few indistinct white spots on the underside of the hind wing, but some had immaculate undersides and one had a nice white line underneath, if a little indistinct in places. Dan kept some specimens, and I took some photographs, so we should be able to work them out. Cheers, Jeff Harding From spruance at infinet.com Wed May 24 09:13:20 2000 From: spruance at infinet.com (Eric or Pat Metzler) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:13:20 -0400 Subject: NABA Field Trips in South Florida References: <5b.621efeb.2659ef4a@aol.com>, <3928CA63.CCB26D11@anu.ie> Message-ID: <392bd68b$0$77364@news.voyager.net> "anne kilmer" wrote in message news:3928CA63.CCB26D11 at anu.ie... > Dear Leroy, > As a founding member of the Atala chapter, I would like to apologize to > you personally for the ignorant and sentimental action of the butterfly > lovers. > It was not as grand an act of vandalism as the one that set loose > hundreds of mink from a mink farm in Britain, but it expressed a similar > ignorance. > And, if there is a next time, may I suggest that either you keep an eye > on your traps, or remove them before you invite the public in ... unless > the field trip leader undertakes specifically to protect them. I've always enjoyed the comments from Anne for their objectivity in the face of ignorance, yet, to me, the apology above is full of caveats. The reference to mink is irrelevant without making a comparison to animal rights organizations, and the apology includes classic cases of "blame the victim." Leroy is not responsible for the actions of others, disliking Leroy's traps does not justify hurting him, and hurting Leroy less than possible does not lessen his losses. Several of my good friends from Ohio went to the NABA event in Florida. I'm sure they had a good time. I hope the planners of future NABA events take close note of the Florida experience lest Anne's unintended comparison between NABA and Animals Rights groups turns these events into stages for protests instead of an appreciation for butterflies. The Ohio Lepidopterists society, a very active organization, has fully embraced the formation of a NABA chapter in Ohio, and we help advertise the NABA activities in our newsletter. I hope we stay in this mutual relationship for our common enjoyment of the study of all Lepidoptera. Please check out the Butterfly Monitoring Website: http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/odnr/wildlife/diversity/lepid/default.htm The Ohio Lepidopterists now have 30 active monitoring sites in all parts of the state. It's a great program and well designed to actively engage all persons in learning more about butterflies. Cheers to all from sunny Ohio where Jim Hanlon had a great time in spite of no Luna Moths. Tar Hollow is a great place! Eric Metzler Columbus Ohio spruance at infinet.com PS: If you want to know more about The Ohio Lepidopterists, please let me know. From be496 at lafn.org Wed May 24 13:41:46 2000 From: be496 at lafn.org (wanda) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:41:46 -0700 Subject: Florida Traps References: <001301bfc50e$e77e6ea0$87757bd1@gruff> Message-ID: <392C145A.8327E76E@lafn.org> Thanks Jeff, for representing us so graciously. I'll certainly vouch that traps of all kinds get damaged, removed, etc. and don't mean just by the weather! There has been a big push for bringing bluebirds back to the area and numerous birdhouses have been built and placed in parks toward that end. If a birdhouse makes it through the year, it is amazing! Wanda Dameron LA-NABA, Lep Soc, Xerces, Lorquin, ATL Flutterby Press, San Fernando Valley, Ca. > NABA wrote: > > Earlier today, the following message was intended to be copied to this > address, but an empty message was inadvertantly sent instead. > > Dear Mr. Koehn, > > Alana Edwards forwarded to me your email in which you state that you > have received telephone calls informing you that a NABA member > destroyed a trap and removed others that you had placed near Port > Mayaca. > > Please be assured that if such actions did in fact take place, they > were in no way encouraged nor condoned by NABA. I have seen some of > the same second and third hand information that you have seen, stating > that a NABA member did interfere with one of your traps. If you do > have convincing information that a particular individual destroyed > your trap, I encourage you to take this matter up with them directly, > if you so desire. If a NABA member participating on one of these field > trips did destroy or take a trap belonging to you, then I sincerely > apologize on behalf of NABA for their behavior. > > A few groups of NABA members did visit an area near Port Mayaca in > conjunction with the NABA Members Meeting being held in nearby West > Palm Beach, Florida. I, myself led the first group of approximately 16 > people to this area on Friday, May 18. You mention that you had placed > a number of traps in this area, but I noticed only a single trap > placed in a tree. Since my group was the first NABA field trip group > to visit the site, it is entirely possible that other, non-NABA people > removed some of them. As you probably know, bait traps can attract all > sorts of attention. The first traps that Bob Robbins and I placed near > the Amazon River in 1970 were cut down and stolen the first day out. > > Very few of the people in my group remarked about the trap and > certainly none did anything to disturb it. Personally, I had no idea > as to whom the trap belonged or for what purpose it were there, but > assumed (apparently not entirely correctly) that any butterflies > trapped would be released. A few other groups visited the same area > when I was not present. > > To reiterate, NABA does not condone the destruction of others’ > property and if a NABA member was involved in such destruction during > a NABA-led field trip, then we apologize for that individual’s > unwarranted, unauthorized and unacceptable behavior. > > Sincerely, > > Jeffrey Glassberg > > President: NABA From dylansteven at europe14.freeserve.co.uk Wed May 24 16:39:42 2000 From: dylansteven at europe14.freeserve.co.uk (Dylan Lloyd) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:39:42 +0100 Subject: Larval requirments for pupation in soils Message-ID: <000e01bfc5c0$31dfb380$3c3e883e@pbl9c> I am shortly going to start work determining the substrate requirements of a species of moth in the UK (Lycia zonaria britannica). This species lives on coastal dune systems and pupates in the soil. I am interested if any members have experience of working on the nature of soils in which larva chose to pupate. Especially how they measured such factors as soil compaction, humic content, moisture etc. I hope to set up a series of choice chambers with quantified variables and allow the larvae to select their preferred substrate. This aims to provide a more accurate description of the substrate required by the larvae and will then input to site management. Does anyone have any ideas or experience of working on unrelated taxa involved in substrate selection? I am interested to hear about the factors which dominate in the choice of site. Cheers, Dylan Lloyd. From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Wed May 24 07:17:42 2000 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 06:17:42 -0500 Subject: Net traps and net tents In-Reply-To: <392C145A.8327E76E@lafn.org> References: <001301bfc50e$e77e6ea0$87757bd1@gruff> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000524061742.00952620@mail.utexas.edu> Wanda, In Central Texas the "Charaxes"-style suspended traps are found sooner or later by raccoons which are always playfully destructive. Malaise flight traps and "Walmart-special" net tents are inevitably shredded by the raccoons. Bluejays also tear netting to get at the butterflies inside. I am considering building an old fashioned wire-screen insectary, or a hardware cloth enclosure for the tent. .........Chris Durden At 10:41 24/05/00 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks Jeff, for representing us so graciously. > >I'll certainly vouch that traps of all kinds get damaged, removed, etc. >and don't mean just by the weather! There has been a big push for >bringing bluebirds back to the area and numerous birdhouses have been >built and placed in parks toward that end. If a birdhouse makes it >through the year, it is amazing! > >Wanda Dameron >LA-NABA, Lep Soc, Xerces, Lorquin, ATL >Flutterby Press, San Fernando Valley, Ca. > > From Leptraps at aol.com Wed May 24 22:27:19 2000 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:27:19 EDT Subject: The Ball is now in NABA's court! Message-ID: <17.6062954.265de987@aol.com> I am a Lepidopterists', a very amateur one at that. As a Lepidopterists' I collect specimens, I curate a personal collection, I design and build traps of all sorts to collect Lepidoptera, I attempt to rear species of interest, I photograph all stages of the Lepidoptera that I rear. I preserve larva, I am the Editor of a regional Lepidopterists Society newsletter, etc., etc. I have passion for the science that I love. That is my description of what I believe a Lepidopterists is. However, I go one farther, I share the knowledge of Lepidoptera that I have with all those who seek it. The majority of the several hundred Lepidopterist that I know fit this description. Many that I know are professional's working for Museums, Universities and nature organizations. The study of Lepidoptera is a science. NABA is an organization of butterfly watchers and gardeners. Although many share similar interest, some consider themselves to be Lepidopterists, most are watchers/observers. The Fundamental difference between NABA and The Lepidopterists' Society is the science. As a result there is a divide between the two organizations that continues to widen as a result of NABA members. The destruction and taking of my bait traps contributed to the divide. The animosity between Lepidopterists and NABA members continues to grow. I should be outraged at what happened to my traps. Since I posted the incident I have received several apologies for NABA members and from Jeff Glassberg. I even received a few e-mail messages that blamed me for the incident. Again I should be outraged at being blamed. First, there is no law that prohibits the collecting of insects, including Lepidoptera, other that those insects receiving protection, whether federal, local and or personal. My trapping Lepidoptera is not restricted or illegal. My traps were on private property and I received permission from the property owner to trap and collect on the property. Nothing that I was doing was illegal. All the traps had my name and telephone number on the top of the trap. Secondly, I provided a NABA member arranging the field trips a number of locations that they could visit in search of butterflies. I made this person aware that I had traps at several of these locations. Although I never suggested the removal of the traps prior to the field trip, I would have done so if requested. My interest was that those attending the field trips would enjoy seeing butterflies at these locations. I also understand that this person is extremely up-set as the result of the trap smashing incident. Finally, to continue to pursue this matter will only deepen the divide between NABA and the Lepidopterists' Society. I willing accept the apologies offered. I have provided the names of the culprits who destroyed the traps to law enforcement (Please do not look for this incident on America's Most Wanted). Besides, I design and fabricate the traps. The loss is not mine. The real loser in this incident is NABA. I have supported the Lepidopterists' Society since I first joined in 1970. I have also supported the Society financially. I was once a NABA member, but when the science that I love and the Society that I support came under attack by NABA members, I could no longer be a part of NABA. NABA contends that it is not opposed to collecting. They need to inform their members. I have attempted to help close the divide between the two organizations by offering my help where ever possible, even as the Editor of the Southern Lepidopterists' Society's newsletter. Eliminating the divide will advance the knowledge of Lepidoptera. I will not allow this incident to change my mind nor my goals. I refuse to throw any more dirt. I am better than that. My Grandmother had a saying that I hold true to this day; "What goes around, comes around". If the divide is to be closed, the ball is now in NABA's court. The next play is theirs. The incident is finished and I think I have said enough. Leroy C. Koehn 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 Hm: 561-966-1655 Cell: 561-301-4215 E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Wed May 24 23:08:54 2000 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:08:54 -0700 Subject: Florida Traps Message-ID: <005f01bfc601$a955c260$72dcc2cf@cguppy> Interesting thought ... bluebirds are highly insectivorous and presumably love "collecting" butterflies, including rare species. An dilemma: Is the act of increasing populations of birds that kill butterflies, the same as people directly killing butterflies? -----Original Message----- From: wanda To: NABA Cc: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Date: May 24, 2000 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Florida Traps >Thanks Jeff, for representing us so graciously. > >I'll certainly vouch that traps of all kinds get damaged, removed, etc. >and don't mean just by the weather! There has been a big push for >bringing bluebirds back to the area and numerous birdhouses have been >built and placed in parks toward that end. If a birdhouse makes it >through the year, it is amazing! > >Wanda Dameron >LA-NABA, Lep Soc, Xerces, Lorquin, ATL >Flutterby Press, San Fernando Valley, Ca. > >> NABA wrote: >> >> Earlier today, the following message was intended to be copied to this >> address, but an empty message was inadvertantly sent instead. >> >> Dear Mr. Koehn, >> >> Alana Edwards forwarded to me your email in which you state that you >> have received telephone calls informing you that a NABA member >> destroyed a trap and removed others that you had placed near Port >> Mayaca. >> >> Please be assured that if such actions did in fact take place, they >> were in no way encouraged nor condoned by NABA. I have seen some of >> the same second and third hand information that you have seen, stating >> that a NABA member did interfere with one of your traps. If you do >> have convincing information that a particular individual destroyed >> your trap, I encourage you to take this matter up with them directly, >> if you so desire. If a NABA member participating on one of these field >> trips did destroy or take a trap belonging to you, then I sincerely >> apologize on behalf of NABA for their behavior. >> >> A few groups of NABA members did visit an area near Port Mayaca in >> conjunction with the NABA Members Meeting being held in nearby West >> Palm Beach, Florida. I, myself led the first group of approximately 16 >> people to this area on Friday, May 18. You mention that you had placed >> a number of traps in this area, but I noticed only a single trap >> placed in a tree. Since my group was the first NABA field trip group >> to visit the site, it is entirely possible that other, non-NABA people >> removed some of them. As you probably know, bait traps can attract all >> sorts of attention. The first traps that Bob Robbins and I placed near >> the Amazon River in 1970 were cut down and stolen the first day out. >> >> Very few of the people in my group remarked about the trap and >> certainly none did anything to disturb it. Personally, I had no idea >> as to whom the trap belonged or for what purpose it were there, but >> assumed (apparently not entirely correctly) that any butterflies >> trapped would be released. A few other groups visited the same area >> when I was not present. >> >> To reiterate, NABA does not condone the destruction of others’ >> property and if a NABA member was involved in such destruction during >> a NABA-led field trip, then we apologize for that individual’s >> unwarranted, unauthorized and unacceptable behavior. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Jeffrey Glassberg >> >> President: NABA > > From viceroy at anu.ie Thu May 25 00:45:35 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:45:35 +0100 Subject: NABA Field Trips in South Florida References: <5b.621efeb.2659ef4a@aol.com>, <3928CA63.CCB26D11@anu.ie> <392bd68b$0$77364@news.voyager.net> Message-ID: <392CAFEF.2AC6E680@anu.ie> Dear Eric, I think you misunderstood my posting. Sorry. Of course I absolutely condemn the destruction of Leroy's traps. The parallel I drew, between that act of vandalism and the "animal rights" release of mink in Britain, was meant to dramatize the triumph of sentimentality over common sense. NABA, like any other club, has members who act thoughtlessly. I hate and resent being associated with these actions, but continue to belong to the club in the hopes that its service as an educational entity outweighs the harm some members may do in fostering butterflies at the expense of other organisms, and in valuing sentimentality over science. I hope, as you do, that the scientists and poets will continue to work together on behalf of the environment, and that this incident will increase friendly cooperation, rather than fostering divisiveness. It was surely a shocker. With hundreds of school butterfly gardens in the Palm Beaches, I'd like to see the children taught to build bait traps, identify their catch, and enquire into the doings of moths as well as butterflies. In such a program, the likelihood of vandalism is overwhelming, and perhaps some little explanatory blurb could be devised, that might be displayed next to the trap to explain what is happening. Such a label, I thought, might have saved Leroy's traps. But perhaps I was naive and the perpetrator knew quite well what he/she was doing. We might now put our fertile minds to designing a suitable community service project for the vandal. (Remember Tom, who decided to post his ravings on the leps list as community service?) Peace Anne Kilmer South florida Eric or Pat Metzler wrote: > > "anne kilmer" wrote in message > news:3928CA63.CCB26D11 at anu.ie... > > Dear Leroy, > > As a founding member of the Atala chapter, I would like to apologize to > > you personally for the ignorant and sentimental action of the butterfly > > lovers. > > It was not as grand an act of vandalism as the one that set loose > > hundreds of mink from a mink farm in Britain, but it expressed a similar > > ignorance. > > > And, if there is a next time, may I suggest that either you keep an eye > > on your traps, or remove them before you invite the public in ... unless > > the field trip leader undertakes specifically to protect them. > > I've always enjoyed the comments from Anne for their objectivity in the face > of ignorance, yet, to me, the apology above is full of caveats. The > reference to mink is irrelevant without making a comparison to animal rights > organizations, and the apology includes classic cases of "blame the victim." > Leroy is not responsible for the actions of others, disliking Leroy's traps > does not justify hurting him, and hurting Leroy less than possible does not > lessen his losses. > > Several of my good friends from Ohio went to the NABA event in Florida. I'm > sure they had a good time. I hope the planners of future NABA events take > close note of the Florida experience lest Anne's unintended comparison > between NABA and Animals Rights groups turns these events into stages for > protests instead of an appreciation for butterflies. > > The Ohio Lepidopterists society, a very active organization, has fully > embraced the formation of a NABA chapter in Ohio, and we help advertise the > NABA activities in our newsletter. I hope we stay in this mutual > relationship for our common enjoyment of the study of all Lepidoptera. > > Please check out the Butterfly Monitoring Website: > http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/odnr/wildlife/diversity/lepid/default.htm > The Ohio Lepidopterists now have 30 active monitoring sites in all parts of > the state. It's a great program and well designed to actively engage all > persons in learning more about butterflies. > > Cheers to all from sunny Ohio where Jim Hanlon had a great time in spite of > no Luna Moths. Tar Hollow is a great place! > > Eric Metzler > Columbus Ohio > spruance at infinet.com > > PS: If you want to know more about The Ohio Lepidopterists, please let me > know. From viceroy at anu.ie Thu May 25 01:26:02 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 06:26:02 +0100 Subject: Florida Traps References: <005f01bfc601$a955c260$72dcc2cf@cguppy> Message-ID: <392CB96A.5FD672DC@anu.ie> Interesting indeed. Whenever you deliberately jigger the wildlife population of an area, whether by putting out a bird feeder, adding a butterfly garden, or just putting in a little pond, you are going to impact the lives of a lot of little guys. I think the bird feeder is the most likely to damage the local ecology, as it attracts "trash" birds such as starlings and grackles, which feed their young on your caterpillars. The bluebird houses merely replace the dead trees (snags) that used to provide housing for these nice native birds. But of course they will also eat your butterflies. The gardener at one school I've worked with proudly added a martin house at the center of the butterfly garden the children had painstakingly designed and planted. That seemed to me poor strategy. Most people don't know enough about botany, biology, the life of the bee and so forth, yet we muddle in, all sails set, in the hopes of mending the environment. Any garden is an assault on the integrity of the local system, after all. And I'm reminded of the teacher who planned to bulldoze the native saw palmettos in order to plant pentas for her butterflies. I promote butterfly gardening in order to provide plenty of caterpillars for the birds I love. Naturally I also foster moths, spiders etc. I think, after the first few years of fanaticism (as Lana Edwards reminded us) most of us relax and enjoy nature even when it's a squirrel eating our monarch caterpillars. We're fattening him up for the owl, and what goes around, comes around. We can't "fix" nature so that we'll like it better, but we can "fix" our gardening practices to be more life-affirming. I guess. Bluebirds are surely better than pesticides. But I dunno. Just killing time till the next ice age, anyway. Cheers Anne Kilmer Mayo, Ireland Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer wrote: > > Interesting thought ... bluebirds are highly insectivorous and presumably > love "collecting" butterflies, including rare species. An dilemma: Is the > act of increasing populations of birds that kill butterflies, the same as > people directly killing butterflies? > > -----Original Message----- > From: wanda > To: NABA > Cc: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Date: May 24, 2000 10:48 AM > Subject: Re: Florida Traps > > >Thanks Jeff, for representing us so graciously. > > > >I'll certainly vouch that traps of all kinds get damaged, removed, etc. > >and don't mean just by the weather! There has been a big push for > >bringing bluebirds back to the area and numerous birdhouses have been > >built and placed in parks toward that end. If a birdhouse makes it > >through the year, it is amazing! > > > >Wanda Dameron > >LA-NABA, Lep Soc, Xerces, Lorquin, ATL > >Flutterby Press, San Fernando Valley, Ca. > > > >> NABA wrote: > >> > >> Earlier today, the following message was intended to be copied to this > >> address, but an empty message was inadvertantly sent instead. > >> > >> Dear Mr. Koehn, > >> > >> Alana Edwards forwarded to me your email in which you state that you > >> have received telephone calls informing you that a NABA member > >> destroyed a trap and removed others that you had placed near Port > >> Mayaca. > >> > >> Please be assured that if such actions did in fact take place, they > >> were in no way encouraged nor condoned by NABA. I have seen some of > >> the same second and third hand information that you have seen, stating > >> that a NABA member did interfere with one of your traps. If you do > >> have convincing information that a particular individual destroyed > >> your trap, I encourage you to take this matter up with them directly, > >> if you so desire. If a NABA member participating on one of these field > >> trips did destroy or take a trap belonging to you, then I sincerely > >> apologize on behalf of NABA for their behavior. > >> > >> A few groups of NABA members did visit an area near Port Mayaca in > >> conjunction with the NABA Members Meeting being held in nearby West > >> Palm Beach, Florida. I, myself led the first group of approximately 16 > >> people to this area on Friday, May 18. You mention that you had placed > >> a number of traps in this area, but I noticed only a single trap > >> placed in a tree. Since my group was the first NABA field trip group > >> to visit the site, it is entirely possible that other, non-NABA people > >> removed some of them. As you probably know, bait traps can attract all > >> sorts of attention. The first traps that Bob Robbins and I placed near > >> the Amazon River in 1970 were cut down and stolen the first day out. > >> > >> Very few of the people in my group remarked about the trap and > >> certainly none did anything to disturb it. Personally, I had no idea > >> as to whom the trap belonged or for what purpose it were there, but > >> assumed (apparently not entirely correctly) that any butterflies > >> trapped would be released. A few other groups visited the same area > >> when I was not present. > >> > >> To reiterate, NABA does not condone the destruction of others’ > >> property and if a NABA member was involved in such destruction during > >> a NABA-led field trip, then we apologize for that individual’s > >> unwarranted, unauthorized and unacceptable behavior. > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> Jeffrey Glassberg > >> > >> President: NABA > > > > From viceroy at anu.ie Thu May 25 01:49:03 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 06:49:03 +0100 Subject: The Ball is now in NABA's court! References: <17.6062954.265de987@aol.com> Message-ID: <392CBECE.7AFBAF2C@anu.ie> Are the vandals still NABA members? It would seem appropriate to strip them of membership in the society. I hope, also, that an article in the NABA magazine will clarify "our" position as regards scientific sampling of lep populations. Anne Kilmer Mayo, Ireland Leptraps at aol.com wrote: > > I am a Lepidopterists', a very amateur one at that. As a Lepidopterists' I > collect specimens, I curate a personal collection, I design and build traps > of all sorts to collect Lepidoptera, I attempt to rear species of interest, I > photograph all stages of the Lepidoptera that I rear. I preserve larva, I am > the Editor of a regional Lepidopterists Society newsletter, etc., etc. I have > passion for the science that I love. That is my description of what I believe > a Lepidopterists is. However, I go one farther, I share the knowledge of > Lepidoptera that I have with all those who seek it. The majority of the > several hundred Lepidopterist that I know fit this description. Many that I > know are professional's working for Museums, Universities and nature > organizations. The study of Lepidoptera is a science. > > NABA is an organization of butterfly watchers and gardeners. Although many > share similar interest, some consider themselves to be Lepidopterists, most > are watchers/observers. > > The Fundamental difference between NABA and The Lepidopterists' Society is > the science. As a result there is a divide between the two organizations that > continues to widen as a result of NABA members. The destruction and taking of > my bait traps contributed to the divide. The animosity between Lepidopterists > and NABA members continues to grow. > > I should be outraged at what happened to my traps. Since I posted the > incident I have received several apologies for NABA members and from Jeff > Glassberg. I even received a few e-mail messages that blamed me for the > incident. Again I should be outraged at being blamed. > > First, there is no law that prohibits the collecting of insects, including > Lepidoptera, other that those insects receiving protection, whether federal, > local and or personal. My trapping Lepidoptera is not restricted or illegal. > My traps were on private property and I received permission from the property > owner to trap and collect on the property. Nothing that I was doing was > illegal. All the traps had my name and telephone number on the top of the > trap. > > Secondly, I provided a NABA member arranging the field trips a number of > locations that they could visit in search of butterflies. I made this person > aware that I had traps at several of these locations. Although I never > suggested the removal of the traps prior to the field trip, I would have done > so if requested. My interest was that those attending the field trips would > enjoy seeing butterflies at these locations. I also understand that this > person is extremely up-set as the result of the trap smashing incident. > > Finally, to continue to pursue this matter will only deepen the divide > between NABA and the Lepidopterists' Society. I willing accept the apologies > offered. I have provided the names of the culprits who destroyed the traps to > law enforcement (Please do not look for this incident on America's Most > Wanted). Besides, I design and fabricate the traps. The loss is not mine. The > real loser in this incident is NABA. > > I have supported the Lepidopterists' Society since I first joined in 1970. I > have also supported the Society financially. I was once a NABA member, but > when the science that I love and the Society that I support came under attack > by NABA members, I could no longer be a part of NABA. NABA contends that it > is not opposed to collecting. They need to inform their members. I have > attempted to help close the divide between the two organizations by offering > my help where ever possible, even as the Editor of the Southern > Lepidopterists' Society's newsletter. Eliminating the divide will advance the > knowledge of Lepidoptera. I will not allow this incident to change my mind > nor my goals. I refuse to throw any more dirt. I am better than that. My > Grandmother had a saying that I hold true to this day; "What goes around, > comes around". If the divide is to be closed, the ball is now in NABA's > court. The next play is theirs. > > The incident is finished and I think I have said enough. > > Leroy C. Koehn > 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle > Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 > Hm: 561-966-1655 > Cell: 561-301-4215 > E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From columbiajen at webtv.net Thu May 25 01:51:58 2000 From: columbiajen at webtv.net (Jennifer Cardenas) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:51:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: lepidoptera societys in Tennessee Message-ID: <14894-392CBF7E-17@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Hello, I live in TN and I was wondering if there are any societys for lepidoptera or entomology in my area? I am a amature and I would like to have someone in my area to converse with. Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Jennifer Cardenas From arnika at online.sinor.ru Thu May 25 04:43:00 2000 From: arnika at online.sinor.ru (arnika) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:43:00 +0600 Subject: We want to announce some results Message-ID: <392CE794.FC359D7A@online.sinor.ru> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1B3EE4236CAA40CF1403DFB7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------1B3EE4236CAA40CF1403DFB7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r; name="biok_for_news.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="biok_for_news.txt" Dear colleagues, We want to announce some results of our research in the field of biotechnology. The bioreactor of new generation working by a principle "controlled tornado" is developed, licensed (PCT/RU98/00296 from 22.09.98) and manufactured by our research team. Bioreactor of a new generation is designed for suspension culture of easily destroyed cells and aerobic bacteria. Stirring is performed by creating in liquid medium a three-dimensional motion similar to a rotating vortex ring (a quasi-stationary flow with an axial countercurrent flow) The aerating vortex which rotates the flow is formed with a centrifugal activator mounted above the suspension level. As a result, the bioreactor of a new type: ? executes the gentlest and efficient mixing not accompanied by foaming, water hammers, cavitation, high-turbulent and stagnant zones;; provides a 3-6 times higher mass exchange rate by oxigen, than bioreactors with the mechanical stirrer, the transfer rate is commensurable with airlift reactors; ? functions with unchanged characteristics at 10-90% filling; ? provides two operation modes with different hydrodynamics and can be reset from one mode to another during the cultivation process; ? forms zones with intensive cell concentrations. All these peculiar properties make it possible: ? to culture cells which are poorly reproduced in well-known types of bioreactors; ? if necessary, to carry out adaptation of cells in shaker mode followed by passing on to intensive mixing mode; ? to obtain a more concentrated product by pouring it in mixing mode from the zone of intensive cell concentration; ? to execute continuous cultivation with partial replacement of culture medium; ? to reduce by 10-20 times the inoculative dose and the amount of nutrient medium filling the vessel, and accordingly, to minimize the losses in case of germination at the initial cultivation stage; ? as the number of cells increases, to provide a constant initial concentration of cells by adding the medium, and to execute the final cultivation with a full bioreactor; ? to use a large one-type bioreactor with a volume related to that of the small one as 1:10, thus removing intermediate bioreactors from the production line. All the above advantages and capabilities of the new type bioreactor result from the following: ? a mechanical agitator, being the main reason of undesireable disturbances and stress, has been removed from the liquid medium; ? the speed of the airflow, relative to the suspension surface, is increased by 8-12 times; ? the bioreactor hydrodynamics, practically, does not depend on the liquid level; the bioreactor is easy to scale-up; ? aerating gas vortex reduces foaming rather than causes it; ? under certain conditions, the liquid medium enters the mode of self-excited oscillations; ? on-bottom streams, directed to the center of the bioreactor, form a rotating up-going flow in which the centrifugal forces and the forces of viscous resistance of the medium are placed in equilibrium and create a confinement zone for particles (cells on a microcarrier). At the moment bioreactors of a new type of capacity 3lt-5lt have been tested. At cultivation of different phylums of cells and microorganisms: BHK - 21, Mamestra brassicae IZD MB - 0503, Marine myeloma Sp2/0 - Ag14, Hyman lymphocytes MT - 4, Aspergillus awamoru and others are received good results confirming wide universality of the bioreactor "BIOK", which allows to cultivate both unpretentious and easily traumatized cells, thus the time of cultivation is reduced significantly (for example for Aspergillus awamoru in 4 times) and the amount of living cells is enlarged Within the framework of the program "Production of drugs on a basis of human recombinant angiogenin" using the 5 liter capacity bioreactor of a new type, pure plasmid DNA with an insertion of gene of human recombinant angiogenin is being produced. Up to 18 mg of pure plasmid DNA with an insertion of human recombinant angiogenin are obtained at one cultivation . (the Information will be published in "Biotechnology" Russia journal ? 3 for 2000). Applying of "Biok" bioreactors opens wide opportunities for preparation production of recombinant plasmids, which create built-in human and mammalian genes It is necessary to say few words about opportunities of application of the bioreactor in biotechnological industry. At present moment we prepare for test of the bioreactor up to 630L. Applying the bioreactor gives significant benefits and makes biological production 5-7 times cheaper. 1) Appreciable reduction (in times) amount of bioreactors in a technological chain because of reduction of an amount large expensive reactors; 2) Opportunity to work in a continuous regimen; 3) saving the equipment, expenditures (space, electric power and water supplies, detergents, wages, etc); 4) Decrease of losses at cultivation of microorganisms; 5) Increase in biomass production. Use of bioreactors of a new type in industrial biotechnological effecting - one of perspective directions of biotechnology promising huge economic benefit We offer the following: 1) Creating new industrial technologies for cultivation of different types of cells and microorganisms; 2) studying effect of human recombinant angiogenin on processes of a vascularization 3) studying of influence of variable fields of mass force framed by a vortex flow on process of cultivation of cells and microorganisms Prof. Mertvetsov Dr. Ramazanov phone/fax +7 (3832) 333369, 332601 arnika at online.sinor.ru http://biok.euro.ru --------------1B3EE4236CAA40CF1403DFB7-- From riley at bluestem.prairienet.org Thu May 25 08:33:18 2000 From: riley at bluestem.prairienet.org (Riley Foster) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:33:18 GMT Subject: Cape Cod butterfly houses? Message-ID: I'm going to spend a week at Cape Cod this summer & wondered if there was anything to do butterflywise? Thanks for any assistance. From viceroy at anu.ie Thu May 25 09:04:54 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:04:54 +0100 Subject: Florida Traps References: Message-ID: <392D24F6.23E8C150@anu.ie> Boydtd at aol.com wrote: > > Anne, > > Welcome back to Ireland! You said in a recent e-mail that building a > butterfly garden would impact on the lives of a lot of little guys. I know > this is true and hope the impact is favourable on the whole (one man's meat > is another man's parson). We are so urbanised and agriculturally fertilised > that the whole environment is inhospitable or even hostile to most little > guys except for the oases provided by gardens of any kind, butterfly or > normal - read Chris Baines of Birmingham University. He also called gardens > butterfly pubs. Then there is also the joy that greenery, colour and the > little guys in the garden bring to big guys like me, even on a grey wet Irish > day. More power to your elbow. > > Trevor Boyd > Butterfly Conservation (Northern Ireland) Thanks. Happy to be back. As to the butterfly garden's impact, bless you, it all depends. I know people who try to protect their butterflies by killing wasp nests, shooing away birds and even taking the caterpillars into the house to keep them "safe". But it'll all be the same in a hundred years, and the enemy is the bulldozer, not us little folks with our trowels and rakes. The moral high ground is a mine field, as you know. Urban gardens improve things for the environment, you bet. Rural clear-the-woods and plant a garden, not so hot. But I dunno, most woods is second growth, and there's not a lot of virgin timber left, anywhere on the planet. There's not an inch of Ireland that hasn't been dug over a score of times, and every rock has been handled. But, you know, making habitat for butterflies, fine enough. But what about the beetles? Spiders? Solitary bees? A sweet disorder in the hedges Makes habitat along the edges as the poet says. It's a rainbow day, and I have bought a leg of lamb and a large smoked salmon, and I won't have to cook for weeks. Except to bake bread, of course, and that's easy. Now would be a good time to come calling. Cheers Anne Kilmer Mayo, Ireland From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu May 25 09:33:56 2000 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:33:56 -0400 Subject: When conflicts arise among endangered species: In-Reply-To: "Cris Guppy & Aud Fischer" "Re: Florida Traps" (May 24, 8:08pm) References: <005f01bfc601$a955c260$72dcc2cf@cguppy> Message-ID: <1000525093400.ZM3998@Gochfeld> The Bluebird x Butterfly dilemma is only one example. The introduction of Peregrine Falcons into New Jersey salt marshes has been highly successful. Their favored prey: Least Terns (endangered) from the nearby colony. Did the Peregrine people deliberately select a hacking site near this guarunteed food supply? Are Peregrines more "valuable" than Least Terns? Bluebirds than butterflies? Mike Gochfeld From acynor at fullerton.edu Thu May 25 11:17:16 2000 From: acynor at fullerton.edu (Anthony W. Cynor) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:17:16 -0700 Subject: When conflicts arise among endangered species: References: <005f01bfc601$a955c260$72dcc2cf@cguppy> <1000525093400.ZM3998@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <392D43FC.8BC0B676@fullerton.edu> Michael Gochfeld wrote: > > The Bluebird x Butterfly dilemma is only one example. The introduction > of Peregrine Falcons into New Jersey salt marshes has been highly > successful. Their favored prey: Least Terns (endangered) from the > nearby colony. Did the Peregrine people deliberately select a hacking > site near this guarunteed food supply? > Are Peregrines more "valuable" than Least Terns? Bluebirds than > butterflies? Does nature care? Any pro or con statement to the above question appears to be a value judgment of the particular human making the statement. Tony > From vdpf at tin.it Thu May 25 17:25:43 2000 From: vdpf at tin.it (vdpf at tin.it) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:25:43 +0100 Subject: R: Prova invio messaggio References: , <8gfrj4$4k0$1@nslave1.tin.it> Message-ID: In article <8gfrj4$4k0$1 at nslave1.tin.it>, "Atlas" wrote: > Sei il primo italiano che trovo in questo newsgroup! > > Mario > AI wrote in message > uPQV4.20125$EY1.217738 at news.infostrada.it... > > Prova invio messaggio > > AI Ce ne sono, ce ne sono.... ciao umberto umbocca at tin.it From ciprit at snip.net Thu May 25 17:04:40 2000 From: ciprit at snip.net (ciprit) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:04:40 -0400 Subject: Butterfly Page with Translator! References: <39281456.F27FE0DB@concentric.net> Message-ID: <392D9567.698B326E@snip.net> Randy, I tried to look at your page in Spanish again, but I received an error message. It seems like the error may be with the page itself. I'll try again later! Christina Randy Emmitt wrote: > Folks, > > I spent all morning working on converting my page "Butterflies Found in > North Carolina" to a simpler format so the Babel Fish translator would > read it. Now hopefully the site can be read in French, German, Italian, > Portuguese and Spanish without to much trouble. Doing so also cut the > page size from 51kb to 16kb which should make it faster for those with > slower modems. And now the entire list can be copied and pasted to make > a state list as well if you visit here. > > Please if you will give me some input on how well the translator reads? > > Randy Emmitt > Rougemont, NC > http://www.rlephoto.com From jhimmel at connix.com Thu May 25 23:04:37 2000 From: jhimmel at connix.com (JH) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:04:37 -0400 Subject: UI Trinidadian geometer Message-ID: <001601bfc6bf$21f1a140$bb63f6cd@pjhimmel> Can anyone pin a name on this South American geo moth? It's a beauty! Info and photo are at this page - http://homepage.altavista.com/booksandnature/photos.html Thanks - John ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: John Himmelman Killingworth, CT USA jhimmel at connix.com ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/booksandnature.html http://homepage.av.com/ctamphibians/ctamphibians.html Info on Trinidad & Tobago Tour, 10/00: http://homepage.av.com/booksandnature/SA.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000525/1b6c796e/attachment.html From ecosys at pacbell.net Thu May 25 22:52:47 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:52:47 -0700 Subject: lepidoptera societys in Tennessee References: <14894-392CBF7E-17@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <392DE6FF.D65E892F@pacbell.net> Greetings, Jennifer I know very little about lepidopterists or entomologists in Tennessee, but there is a chapter of the North American Butterfly Association [NABA] located in middle Tennessee, Presiden Rita Venable, 601 Franklin Road, Franklin, TN 37069; Rita's e-mail address is: . The web site for NABA is . Another national organization where people may gather locally at least for butterfly counts is the Xerces Society, which has a concern for wide spectrum of invertebrates besides butterflies; web site at . Jeffrey A. Caldwell California Jennifer Cardenas wrote: > Hello, I live in TN and I was wondering if there are any societys for > lepidoptera or entomology in my area? I am a amature and I would like to > have someone in my area to converse with. Any information will be > greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > Jennifer Cardenas From ecosys at pacbell.net Thu May 25 23:04:51 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:04:51 -0700 Subject: Bioblitz near Portland, Oregon Message-ID: <392DE9D3.DDB0E4D6@pacbell.net> There is a notice on the website of the Xerces Society for a "bioblitz" to be held in the Champoeg State Heritage Area, just south of Portland, Oregon. This bioblitz is scheduled for 3 pm Friday, June 16 to 3 pm Saturday, June 17, 2000. The idea is to identify every species in about a 700-acre area in a 24-hour effort in which it is expected that about 2000 species may be identified. Apparently this is something that has been done previously in the East but not in the West. Find out more about this specific event, the concept and previous such exercises at: http://www.xerces.org/bioblitz.htm It sounds a little like something I have imagined, but have never experienced. If any of you are "bioblitz" veterns, I think it might be interesting to hear what you have to say about the experience and the results it yields! Jeffrey A. Caldwell From janature at compusmart.ab.ca Fri May 26 00:31:08 2000 From: janature at compusmart.ab.ca (John Acorn) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:31:08 -0600 Subject: Bioblitz near Portland, Oregon Message-ID: <20000526043118Z116833-8346+16930@mail.compusmart.ab.ca> Lepsters, Jeffrey Caldwell mentioned a bioblitz, and since I just got back from one, associated with the Meadowlark Festival in Penticton, British Columbia, Canada, I thought I would give my impressions. We tallied about 602 species (final count not yet in), and did a great deal, I hope, to raise local awareness of the rich diversity in the Okanagan region of Canada. I hosted a wrap-up count-call event, in which we had musical entertainment interspersed with reports on the numbers of species we identified in various taxa. People seemed to enjoy it, and found it interesting to hear from naturalists in a variety of fields. Two years back I was involved in another, as part of the Texas Tropics Nature Festival, in McAllen, Texas, and there we counted 997 species. I think the main determinant of your total number is the amount of botanical and entomological expertise you have on hand. The birders and butterfly people pretty well know how many species they will find before the event transpires, and between them it's tough to beat 300. If you have good moth people, another hundred might be added. Past that, and you have to rely on things like fungi, flowers, and beetles. 2000 sounds like a tough number to me. These events are a lot of fun, and they really do challenge you to make quick, accurate identifications in the field, at whatever level you can muster. John Acorn Alberta, Canada From mholm at vip.net Fri May 26 00:42:56 2000 From: mholm at vip.net (R.J. Cannings & M. Holm) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:42:56 -0700 Subject: Bioblitz near Portland, Oregon References: <20000526043118Z116833-8346+16930@mail.compusmart.ab.ca> Message-ID: <001301bfc6cc$dd7f51c0$91a4fea9@richard> John et al: The final total here was 683 (the plant people added a few more...). I'd like to get some good moth and bug people involved next year and gun for 1000. Cheers, Dick Cannings 1330 Debeck Road S11, C96, RR#1 Naramata, BC V0H 1N0 CANADA (250) 496-4049 ----- Original Message ----- From: John Acorn To: ; Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:31 PM Subject: Re: Bioblitz near Portland, Oregon > Lepsters, > > Jeffrey Caldwell mentioned a bioblitz, and since I just got back from one, > associated with the Meadowlark Festival in Penticton, British Columbia, > Canada, I thought I would give my impressions. We tallied about 602 species > (final count not yet in), and did a great deal, I hope, to raise local > awareness of the rich diversity in the Okanagan region of Canada. I hosted > a wrap-up count-call event, in which we had musical entertainment > interspersed with reports on the numbers of species we identified in various > taxa. People seemed to enjoy it, and found it interesting to hear from > naturalists in a variety of fields. > > Two years back I was involved in another, as part of the Texas Tropics > Nature Festival, in McAllen, Texas, and there we counted 997 species. I > think the main determinant of your total number is the amount of botanical > and entomological expertise you have on hand. The birders and butterfly > people pretty well know how many species they will find before the event > transpires, and between them it's tough to beat 300. If you have good moth > people, another hundred might be added. Past that, and you have to rely on > things like fungi, flowers, and beetles. 2000 sounds like a tough number to > me. These events are a lot of fun, and they really do challenge you to make > quick, accurate identifications in the field, at whatever level you can > muster. > > John Acorn > Alberta, Canada > From zagatti at versailles.inra.fr Fri May 26 03:10:42 2000 From: zagatti at versailles.inra.fr (Pierre Zagatti) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:10:42 +0200 Subject: UI Trinidadian geometer References: <001601bfc6bf$21f1a140$bb63f6cd@pjhimmel> Message-ID: <392E2372.425E6371@versailles.inra.fr> JH wrote: > Can anyone pin a name on this South American geo moth? It's a > beauty! Info and photo are at this page > -http://homepage.altavista.com/booksandnature/photos.html Thanks > - John::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > John Himmelman > Killingworth, CT USA > jhimmel at connix.com Probably a Phrygionis species, have a look at: http://www.inra.fr/Internet/Produits/PAPILLON/geometri/texteng/p_domini.htm http://www.inra.fr/Internet/Produits/PAPILLON/geometri/texteng/p_cruora.htm There is apparently a high level of endemism in these antillean geometrids. -- Pierre ZAGATTI INRA Unite de Phytopharmacie et Mediateurs Chimiques 78026 Versailles Cedex FRANCE Tel: (33) 1 30 83 31 18 e-mail zagatti at versailles.inra.fr http://www.jouy.inra.fr/papillon/ http://www.jouy.inra.fr/papillon/arct_guy/arct_guy.htm From viceroy at anu.ie Fri May 26 04:12:14 2000 From: viceroy at anu.ie (anne kilmer) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:12:14 +0100 Subject: Bioblitz near Portland, Oregon References: <20000526043118Z116833-8346+16930@mail.compusmart.ab.ca> <001301bfc6cc$dd7f51c0$91a4fea9@richard> Message-ID: <392E31DE.DC96061@anu.ie> You could double that with a bucket of pond water and a microscope, I betcha. Or can't you count protists and soil critters. Borrow some screens from the local archaeologists ... the sky's the limit. (And, speaking of that, tow some flypaper from a balloon, and you'll get spiderlings and midges and all sorts of flotsam.) Anne Kilmer Mayo "R.J. Cannings & M. Holm" wrote: > > John et al: > > The final total here was 683 (the plant people added a few more...). I'd > like to get some good moth and bug people involved next year and gun for > 1000. > > Cheers, > > Dick Cannings > 1330 Debeck Road > S11, C96, RR#1 > Naramata, BC V0H 1N0 > CANADA > > (250) 496-4049 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Acorn > To: ; > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: Bioblitz near Portland, Oregon > > > Lepsters, > > > > Jeffrey Caldwell mentioned a bioblitz, and since I just got back from one, > > associated with the Meadowlark Festival in Penticton, British Columbia, > > Canada, I thought I would give my impressions. We tallied about 602 > species > > (final count not yet in), and did a great deal, I hope, to raise local > > awareness of the rich diversity in the Okanagan region of Canada. I > hosted > > a wrap-up count-call event, in which we had musical entertainment > > interspersed with reports on the numbers of species we identified in > various > > taxa. People seemed to enjoy it, and found it interesting to hear from > > naturalists in a variety of fields. > > > > Two years back I was involved in another, as part of the Texas Tropics > > Nature Festival, in McAllen, Texas, and there we counted 997 species. I > > think the main determinant of your total number is the amount of botanical > > and entomological expertise you have on hand. The birders and butterfly > > people pretty well know how many species they will find before the event > > transpires, and between them it's tough to beat 300. If you have good > moth > > people, another hundred might be added. Past that, and you have to rely > on > > things like fungi, flowers, and beetles. 2000 sounds like a tough number > to > > me. These events are a lot of fun, and they really do challenge you to > make > > quick, accurate identifications in the field, at whatever level you can > > muster. > > > > John Acorn > > Alberta, Canada > > From mjs323 at aol.com Fri May 26 10:53:25 2000 From: mjs323 at aol.com (MJS323) Date: 26 May 2000 14:53:25 GMT Subject: lepidoptera societys in Tennessee References: <14894-392CBF7E-17@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <20000526105325.08345.00000163@ng-cq1.aol.com> Jennifer; There are two very active local butterfly and moth organizations near your area of Tennessee. The Ohio Lepidopterists and the Kentucky Lepidopterists Societies are both very active in research and conservation of butterflies and moths. Contact Eric Metzler (who is frequently on this newsgroup) about the Ohio Lepidopterists Society, and Charlie Covell at the University of Louisville about the Kentucky Lepidopterists. Both very good groups. You can also join the Southern Lepidopterists which includes Tennessee as well. Mike Smith From rworth at oda.state.or.us Fri May 26 12:51:02 2000 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:51:02 -0700 Subject: lepidoptera societys in Tennessee In-Reply-To: <14894-392CBF7E-17@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <14894-392CBF7E-17@storefull-246.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: Jennifer, If you are looking for a group that is dedicated to the study of leps, you might also look into the Lepidopterists' Society. Many people in this group are also avid watchers, photographers, and gardeners as well as collectors. The Membership directory lists the following people from Tennessee: Roger Qualls-Ashland City Julia & Robert Dow-Collierville Thomson Paris-Gallatin Lauren Estadt, Mecky Furr-Germantown Sue Dippold-Hendersonville Jerry Nagel-Johnson City John Hyatt, Ronald Wankel-Kingsport Bruce McCarty-Knoxville Charley Chilcote-Maryville Laurel Patton-Memphis Pietro Galassetti, Howard Lewis, Olle Pellmyr- Nashville Jane Baird-Oak Ridge Linda Haulk-Sevierville You would have to look them up for phone numbers. I'm surprised there is no one from Chatanooga, being so close to the Smoky Mountains and all. Hope this helps. Best of luck, Rich >Hello, I live in TN and I was wondering if there are any societys for >lepidoptera or entomology in my area? I am a amature and I would like to >have someone in my area to converse with. Any information will be >greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. > >Jennifer Cardenas Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1321 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000526/4a8f0597/attachment.bin From rworth at oda.state.or.us Fri May 26 13:09:50 2000 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:09:50 -0700 Subject: Bioblitz near Portland, Oregon In-Reply-To: <392DE9D3.DDB0E4D6@pacbell.net> References: <392DE9D3.DDB0E4D6@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Jeffrey, Our department is one of the sponsors of this event. It looks like I might be one of the lepidopterists involved in this endeavor. The more I hear about it, the more fun it sounds. We should have several blacklight stations set up in different habitat zones. I will have to tell more after the event is over. Cheers, Rich >There is a notice on the website of the Xerces Society for a "bioblitz" >to be held in the Champoeg State Heritage Area, just south of >Portland, Oregon. This bioblitz is scheduled for 3 pm Friday, June 16 >to 3 pm Saturday, June 17, 2000. The idea is to identify every species >in about a 700-acre area in a 24-hour effort in which it is expected >that about 2000 species may be identified. Apparently this is >something that has been done previously in the East but not in the >West. Find out more about this specific event, the concept and >previous such exercises at: >http://www.xerces.org/bioblitz.htm > >It sounds a little like something I have imagined, but have never >experienced. If any of you are "bioblitz" veterns, I think it might be >interesting to hear what you have to say about the experience and the >results it yields! > >Jeffrey A. Caldwell Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 From artohin at don.sitek.net Fri May 26 13:46:20 2000 From: artohin at don.sitek.net (=?iso-8859-1?B?z+7r8uDi8eru4+4=?=) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:46:20 +0400 Subject: Lepidoptera from Russia References: <17.6062954.265de987@aol.com> Message-ID: <008301bfc73a$666b4580$a41918d5@LocalHost> Dear colleagues! Who is interesting in moths and butterflies from the South Russia (Rostov-on-Don region), please contact with me. Here are some unemployed entomologists ready to collect for orders. Visit our new web site: http://www.don.sitek.net/~institut And pair of others: http://www.don.sitek.net/home/entomol/ http://www.don.sitek.net/home/collect/ Dr.Alexander Poltavsky artohin at don.sitek.net From artohin at don.sitek.net Fri May 26 13:56:36 2000 From: artohin at don.sitek.net (=?koi8-r?B?8M/M1MHX08vPx88=?=) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:56:36 +0400 Subject: Lepidoptera from Russia Message-ID: <018201bfc73b$d8a73d60$a41918d5@LocalHost> Dear colleagues! Who is interesting in moths and butterflies from the South Russia (Rostov-on-Don region), please contact with me. Here are some unemployed entomologists ready to collect for orders. Visit our new web site: http://www.don.sitek.net/~institut And pair of others: http://www.don.sitek.net/home/entomol/ http://www.don.sitek.net/home/collect/ Dr.Alexander Poltavsky artohin at don.sitek.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000526/8c7ab463/attachment.html From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Fri May 26 16:17:03 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:17:03 -0700 Subject: Polygonia oreas Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F27D6@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Yesterday I stumbled across a healthy population of Polygonia oreas. I do not know if this is an unusual situation or if I have simply not been looking in the right habitats in the past. This bug is reputed to not show up very often; which again could be an artifact of few people spending the time in the right habitats. I would welcome dialogue with anyone who has field experience with this butterfly to compare notes and would especially welcome contact from anyone who might have some extra specimens of nominate oreas or oreas silenus. Remember to check out those odd-ball habitats at odd times of the year; allways amazes me what lurks just around the corner where you least expect it :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca From Mothman617 at mediaone.net Fri May 26 20:07:04 2000 From: Mothman617 at mediaone.net (Mothman617) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:07:04 GMT Subject: A. luna f. rubrimarginata ? Message-ID: I found a peculiar male A. luna upon my blacklighting sheet this morning and I was wondering if anyone has come across such a specimen of this. I had turned on my blacklight last evening and let it run until morning. When I went out early today to inspect my catch, I had found 3 male luna moths. 2 of the males were the typical form. The third male however had heavily infused purple-pink coloration upon both the hind and forwings from the outer margins. The hindwings have more purple - pink color than green and the green coloration itself is much bolder. I had almost thought it was a miniature A. isis. This is obviously an extreme abberration, of which will be placed in one of my prized drawers to never see a single photon of sunlight for fear of this to fade. I do wish I had a digital camera to post this. From Leptraps at aol.com Fri May 26 22:07:35 2000 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:07:35 EDT Subject: Bait trap incident Message-ID: I have attempted to end the bait trap incident and move on. However, others will not leave well enough alone. I cannot believe the absolute arrogance of some people who are NABA members that are opposed to collecting butterflies and have risen to the defense of the two people who destroyed my trap. ( I have since learned that another person on the NAPA field trip cut down the other two traps and tossed them into the woods. We have since recovered both traps.) One person accused me of setting up the incident to embarrass NABA. Another person wrote to claim she believed a raccoon tore the trap up (If a raccoon tore up the trap, we need to sign him up for the Olympic Frisbee Team as the heavy round base of the trap was thrown a good distance into the woods). And finally, I received a telephone call from a woman who called me a liar and said I made this whole thing up. All of these people claimed that they were present on the field trips. On the other hand, I have had several people contact me who were present while others destroyed the trap and apologized for standing by without reacting. They are also opposed to collecting but believed that the actions of these two individuals was wrong (I have also learned that there may have been a Heaven's Gate field trip in the same area that weekend. That would explain a lot!!){I may have lost a trap but no my sense of humor! The world is too full of morons for me to do that!}. I was in error when I spoke for the Lepidopterists' Society and stated that there was a division between the Lepidopterists' Society and NABA. The division is between the members of the Lepidopterists' Society who collect and NABA members who are opposed to collecting. The Lepidopterists' Society is a society. It has a constitution, members elect officers, the Society supports various educational activities and when necessary, policed the membership. The Lepidopterists' Society has removed members for inappropriate behavior, illegal collecting activity, and fraudulent business practices. A quick review of the List of Members of the Lepidopterists' Society indicates that the majority of the members collect, some as professionals, some as amateurs and others as hobbyist. The balance of the membership have varying degrees of interest, some are gardeners, watchers, photographers, or a passing interest. The Lepidopterists' Society is society. I have learned since my last posting that NABA is not a society but a Corporation. There is no constitution, no election of officers, the Board has virtually no power and Jeffrey Glassberg is the President in perpetuity. In other words, Mr. Glassberg is NABA. If this statement is not correct, please correct it with documentation. Also, I understand that Mr. Glassberg is an Attorney amongst other things. Any direct confrontation with NABA could be expensive. If the anti-collecting rhetoric and opposition to collecting from NABA members is to end, it will be up to the individual NABA members. Unfortunately, I do not believe that will happen. I am almost of the opinion that those opposed to collecting will continue to beat the war drums. They have no interest in advance the knowledge of Lepidoptera. I received an e-mail which stated that if their were only moths in the trap it would have remain untouched. This is the mentality of some people. Both butterflies and moths are Lepidoptera. Ms Kilmer, I hate to disagree with you, regardless of the organization, both have those who demonstrate a lack of character and good judgment. I was told last night by a person I know very well (a former neighbor here in Florida) that she would not shed a tear if someone were to "bumped me off" to prevent me from killing butterflies. I reminded her that she was at Starkville protesting against the death penalty the day the state of Florida executed of Ted Bundy. There was a long period of silence before she hung up the phone without responding. I want to apologize to Alana Edwards, the field trip coordinator, for any difficulty or grief that my help and my traps have caused her. Her heart is always in the right place. I have spent time with Alana in the field, although a watcher at heart and upbringing, she is a true Lepidopterists'. Thank you to all who responded to my postings. I have learned from this incident. Regardless of the mindless rhetoric, senseless comments, unfounded accusations, I refuse to allow myself to become entangled in a war of words that would result in my lowering myself to their level. I have said my last on this matter. Leroy C. Koehn 6085 Wedgewood Village Circle Lake Worth, FL 33463-7371 Hm: 561-966-1655 Cell: 561-301-4215 E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com From william at elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk Sat May 27 11:43:16 2000 From: william at elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk (Bill Grange) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 16:43:16 +0100 Subject: Caterpillar from England - identification? References: <8g1jfq$qhe$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> Message-ID: <8goqg4$tga$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> Bill Grange wrote in message news:8g1jfq$qhe$1 at news6.svr.pol.co.uk... > I would be pleased if anyone is able to identify a caterpillar (enquiry from > a member of the public) - picture at: > > http://www.elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk/query.htm > > I'm sorry for the indifferent quality of the photo. > > Bill Grange > > Keeper of Natural History, Derby Museum, England > > Website: http://www.elmgrove2.freeserve.co.uk > ________- Many thanks to the helpful correspondants who have i.d. this as a Drinker Moth - one which I should have known. I thought that my acknowledgement had already appeared here. Bill Grange From donald.davis at utoronto.ca Sat May 27 17:13:00 2000 From: donald.davis at utoronto.ca (Donald Davis) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 21:13:00 GMT Subject: Monarch Observations Needed Message-ID: <39303A5C.E1EAF317@utoronto.ca> Thanks to so many on this list who have reported their monarch butterfly sightings to Journey North or to this writer. The number of reported sightings is remarkable, and a reflection of the generosity of those on this list who have shared their data with the 4500 classrooms participating in Journey North 2000. We would appreciate your ongoing observations - first sightings of adults, particularly from Western Canada and Maritime Canada, and first sightings of eggs and larva. As before, you can post your data directly to the Journey North Website or forward by private post to this writer, who will, in turn, post your data at Journey North. As before, make sure to include date and place of sighting (closest village, town, or city), name of observer and e-mail address. Don Davis Toronto, ON P.S. A monarch whizzed past me on Friday, May 26th while I was working at my parent's home not far from Presqu'ile Provincial Park, Brighton, Ontario (44.01 N, 77.50 W). It was not a bright, orange color, but a dark, flat orange color - like the late migrating monarchs we see in the late fall in Ontario. From be496 at lafn.org Sun May 28 11:06:14 2000 From: be496 at lafn.org (wanda) Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:06:14 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: "Mariposas Mexicanas" now on CD] Message-ID: <393135E6.36ACD06E@lafn.org> This is a GREAT DEAL! Think I paid $75 (+chunk for S&H) for each of these coffee table books. Flutterby Press has updated book scientific and common name listing ($5+1.50 S&H). Cheers, Wanda Dameron Flutterby Press 23424 Jonathan St., Los Angeles, Ca. 91304 Mike Quinn wrote: > > The following information is on the Iowa State Entomology Site: > > Mexican Butterflies "Mariposas Mexicanas" (Mexican Butterflies) by Roberto > De la Maza is now available in both English and Spanish on CD-ROM. This > CD-ROM also includes selected photos from "Chiapas Butterflies" by Javier > and Roberto De la Maza Jr. Explore the world of Mexican butterflies through > 2000 high-resolution full-color photographs and illustrations. Find > detailed scientific information on the habitat, location, food sources, and > flight zones of 651 species of Mexican butterflies. System Requirements: > Windows 3.1, PC 386 SX, 8 MB RAM, SVGA 256 color monitor, CD-ROM drive > double speed (2X). Retail price: $35.00 US plus shipping and handling. > Telephone in Mexico 52-420-5959; Fax: 525-420-5942. > > > > (Above is the link provided on the Iowa State site. I didn't find any > information on the butterfly CD but there was the following contact > information. I seem to recall some discussion of this CD before, but I > don't remember any details. Mike Quinn) > > Todos los derechos reservados Editorial de Tecnologia Avanzada S.A. de C.V. > Sauces 33 Col. San Lorenzo Huipulco Mexico, D.F. 14370 > Tel: 55 73 41 69 / 55 13 99 40 > Fax: 55 73 54 84 / 55 13 98 50 > E-mail: carlos at solar.sar.net > > ====================================== > To unsubscribe, send the message SIGNOFF TX-BUTTERFLY to > LISTSERV at LIST.AUDUBON.ORG > To change to the daily digest, send the message SET TX-BUTTERFLY DIGEST to > LISTSERV at LIST.AUDUBON.ORG > TX-BUTTERFLY archives: > ====================================== From titanus01 at infonie.fr Sun May 28 18:21:07 2000 From: titanus01 at infonie.fr (Olivier) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:21:07 +0200 Subject: Send dried insect ??? Message-ID: <959552567.806328@romulus.infonie.fr> Hi, Do you know if dried insect are authorized in the U.S.A.? I would like to send (by post) some dried butterflies towards Indiana area. Thank you ! Olivier FRANCE From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Mon May 29 12:06:35 2000 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:06:35 -0700 Subject: Boisduval -aquilo TL ?? Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F27E4@blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA> Just for the fun of it, on the weekend I looked at 3 pieces of literature to see what they had to say about the type locality of Agriades aquilo (Boisduval 1832 Icones Historiques etc). Freeman (1939) said Labrador for the TL; Higgins and Riley (1970) assert North Cape in Europe as the TL; Klots (1951) lists several locations including Labrador, Cape North and Siberia upon the Altai. Since it is quite common to see different views in the butterfly literature; once again I need to form my own opinion. So if anyone on the list has access to Boisduval 1832 could you please quote me exactly what Boisduval had to say about aquilo ?? A quote in French would be fine but a literal English translation would save me some translation time :-) Also: do Boisduval's aquiilo type specimens exist and if so where ?; did Boisduval designate or indicate a holotype ? ; if not, and the syntypes exist, has anyone ever designated a lectotype ???? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca From cgh at ifrance.com Mon May 29 11:26:49 2000 From: cgh at ifrance.com (CGH) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 17:26:49 +0200 Subject: Photos de papillons Message-ID: <8gu2nb$3tb$1@reader1.fr.uu.net> Bonjour, Je recherche des photos de papillons (? tous les stades) pour mettre sur mon site car je n'ai pas d'appareil photo. Si quelqu'un pouvait m'en passer quelques photos... Merci d'avance ! Christophe http://www.triatel.com/lepido From wormington at juno.com Mon May 29 14:10:04 2000 From: wormington at juno.com (Alan Wormington) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:10:04 -0400 Subject: Moth Identification Message-ID: <20000529.141020.-77611.0.Wormington@juno.com> About a week ago, at Point Pelee National Park, Ontario, I observed a distinctive moth that I have been unable to identify. Perhaps it is nothing unusual, but since I have never seen one before it could be something rare for this area. It was a day-flying moth seen mid-day in a mature forest. It had the general characteristics as White-striped Black (Trichodezia albovittata) -- that is, it was very frail, similar in overall appearance, it sat on vegetation much like a butterfly would, and was hard to approach. In appearance it was entirely jet black, except in the centre of the outer forewing there was a small, very diffused (and very indistinct) light round area. No other markings. If anyone knows the identify of this moth and its status at this latitude, I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks. Alan Wormington Leamington, Ontario From artohin at don.sitek.net Mon May 29 14:40:35 2000 From: artohin at don.sitek.net (=?koi8-r?B?8M/M1MHX08vPx88=?=) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:40:35 +0400 Subject: Accourding Saturniidae Message-ID: <003d01bfc99d$83939940$a41918d5@LocalHost> Dear colleague Naish! Yes, we have in Rostov region one very common Saturniidae: Saturnia pyri. I breeded twice about 100-200 pupas. But in this season is too late get eggs. Sincerely yours Dr. Alexander Poltavsky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20000529/d9b6ec5d/attachment.html From JMArias at sol.racsa.co.cr Mon May 29 17:42:37 2000 From: JMArias at sol.racsa.co.cr (Julio M. Arias) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:42:37 -0600 Subject: Pollination assessments Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000529153300.00ad7a10@pop.racsa.co.cr> Hi all I am trying to design a field practice for my students and will welcome any friendly advice that can get from any of you. The goal is to measure in some way the value of pollination services from natural areas. The setting in question is a small protected forest surrounded by urban and agricultural areas (crops and pastures), of course in the tropics (Atenas, Costa Rica). I tought initially of working with bats, but later on reading that most pollination is done by Lepidoptera, Hymenoptera, Diptera and Coleoptera, I decided to drop the vertebrates. My approaches are to sample the diversity of potential pollinators in the forest and in another comparative area, and to try to mark pollinators in the forest or in the neigbour agricultural areas and try to recover it later in the forest. I only have less than a month for the students to do it. Does anyone have any suggestion/criticism/observation? My experience with bees and flies is minimal. Thanks in advance Julio M. Arias-Reveron, Ph.D. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Center for Sustainable Development Studies School for Field Studies Apdo. 150-4013 Atenas, Alajuela Costa Rica ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ph. (506)446-5558, (506)446-6960 Home (506)460-3072 JMArias at sol.racsa.co.cr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From russ at globaldialysis.com Tue May 30 06:40:59 2000 From: russ at globaldialysis.com (Russell England) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:40:59 GMT Subject: Lime hawk moth - (Mimas tiliae) Message-ID: <%UMY4.11259$F31.1342618@news3.cableinet.net> I don't know anything about moths, but after looking through several pictures on the internet, it appears we had a lime hawk moth (Mimas tiliae) in our garden yesterday afternoon. It was at the bottom of our silver birch tree. I have a picture of it for anyone that is interested. Is this a rare moth? Our approximate coordinates are: Latitude 52.469 decimal degrees North Longitude 2.159 decimal degrees West which is Wollaston, Stourbridge, West Midlands, UK Cheers Russ From kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk Tue May 30 08:51:07 2000 From: kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk (Roger KENDRICK) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:51:07 +0800 Subject: Lime hawk moth - (Mimas tiliae) References: <%UMY4.11259$F31.1342618@news3.cableinet.net> Message-ID: <3933B93B.E4FDC472@hkusua.hku.hk> Hi Russ, Sorry to disappoint you, but this is not a rare moth - in England at least (not common at all in Wales and unknown from Scotland). Internationally, it's distributed right across the Palaearctic region from western Europe to Japan. In England, the Lime Hawk is particularly associated with lime trees (Tilia spp. & hybrids) in urban situations (planted trees along streets), as well as English elm (Ulmus procera), alder (Alnus glutinosa) and possibly birch (Betula) spp., oak (Quercus) spp. and Prunus spp. in more rural settings. (Gilchrist, 1983). Nice moth though (I've recorded this regularly in May at my home in Coventry, West Midlands, from 1991 through 1996 - been elswhere since). hope this helps, Roger. [ref. Gilchrist, W.L.R.E., 1983. Sphingidae. pp. 20-39 in Heath, J. & Emmet, A.M., The Moths and Butterflies of Great Britain and Ireland, volume 9. Harley Books, Colchester, Essex, England.] Russell England wrote: > I don't know anything about moths, but after looking through several > pictures on the internet, it appears we had a lime hawk moth (Mimas tiliae) > in our garden yesterday afternoon. > > It was at the bottom of our silver birch tree. I have a picture of it for > anyone that is interested. > > Is this a rare moth? > > Our approximate coordinates are: > > Latitude 52.469 decimal degrees North > Longitude 2.159 decimal degrees West > > which is Wollaston, Stourbridge, West Midlands, UK > > Cheers > > Russ -- Roger C. KENDRICK Demonstrator / Ph.D. Student Dept. of Ecology & Biodiversity, The University of Hong Kong mailto:kendrick at hkusua.hku.hk mailing address: Flat 911, Block F, Telford Gardens, 33, Wai Yip Street, Kowloon Bay, Kowloon, Hong Kong Hong Kong Moths website coordinator http://hkusub.hku.hk/~kendrick/hkmoth.htm HK Lepidopterists' Society Website http://www.hkls.org http://hklg.163.net/ (Chinese summary) mailto:hkls at xoommail.com From cmt.raper at triocomp.co.uk Tue May 30 08:31:18 2000 From: cmt.raper at triocomp.co.uk (Chris Raper) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:31:18 +0100 Subject: Lime hawk moth - (Mimas tiliae) References: <%UMY4.11259$F31.1342618@news3.cableinet.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 May 2000 10:40:59 GMT, "Russell England" wrote: >it appears we had a lime hawk moth (Mimas tiliae) >in our garden yesterday afternoon. Nice >It was at the bottom of our silver birch tree. I have a picture of it for >anyone that is interested. Certainly would be interesting - but don't post the binary to the group - put it down on your web-area and post the address here. >Is this a rare moth? Not exceptionally - it all depends on the habitat around you. I have only recorded 1 in 10 years of recording on a chalk downland site - but there are very few Lime trees in the area. :-) Best wishes, Chris R. From alium at polbox.com Tue May 30 09:09:09 2000 From: alium at polbox.com (Paul) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:09:09 +0200 Subject: Review of the paper. Message-ID: <8h0ef9$p15$1@info.cyf-kr.edu.pl> Hi I have got some interesting results of investigation the individuals' character in the vanishing population of butterfly. Unfortunately due to my extremely weak knowledge of English I'm not able to prepare it corecctly to the publication... Is there any native speaker, who kindly would like to make the language review of my paper? Thank you in advance Paul From alium at polbox.com Tue May 30 09:10:13 2000 From: alium at polbox.com (Paul) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:10:13 +0200 Subject: Review of the paper. Message-ID: <8h0ef9$p15$2@info.cyf-kr.edu.pl> Hi I have got some interesting results of investigation the individuals' character in the vanishing population of butterfly. Unfortunately due to my extremely weak knowledge of English I'm not able to prepare it corecctly to the publication... Is there any native speaker, who kindly would like to make the language review of my paper? Thank you in advance Paul From jmason at ink.org Tue May 30 13:38:21 2000 From: jmason at ink.org (Jim Mason) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:38:21 -0500 Subject: Mariposas Mexicanas on CDROM References: <393135E6.36ACD06E@lafn.org> Message-ID: <01a101bfca5d$dfddfd60$c49ec9a5@wp.state.ks.us> The following Texas web page has a listing for the Mariposas Mexicanas CDROM for $50. http://www.trbooks.com/cdrom2.html Jim Mason, Naturalist jmason at ink.org (316) 683-5499 x103 Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th St. N. Wichita, KS 67220-2200 http://www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: wanda To: SoWestLep ; Leps-L ; TX-BF LIST - post Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2000 10:06 AM Subject: [Fwd: "Mariposas Mexicanas" now on CD] This is a GREAT DEAL! Think I paid $75 (+chunk for S&H) for each of these coffee table books. Flutterby Press has updated book scientific and common name listing ($5+1.50 S&H). Cheers, Wanda Dameron Flutterby Press 23424 Jonathan St., Los Angeles, Ca. 91304 Mike Quinn wrote: > > The following information is on the Iowa State Entomology Site: > > Mexican Butterflies "Mariposas Mexicanas" (Mexican Butterflies) by Roberto > De la Maza is now available in both English and Spanish on CD-ROM. This > CD-ROM also includes selected photos from "Chiapas Butterflies" by Javier > and Roberto De la Maza Jr. Explore the world of Mexican butterflies through > 2000 high-resolution full-color photographs and illustrations. Find > detailed scientific information on the habitat, location, food sources, and > flight zones of 651 species of Mexican butterflies. System Requirements: > Windows 3.1, PC 386 SX, 8 MB RAM, SVGA 256 color monitor, CD-ROM drive > double speed (2X). Retail price: $35.00 US plus shipping and handling. > Telephone in Mexico 52-420-5959; Fax: 525-420-5942. > > > > (Above is the link provided on the Iowa State site. I didn't find any > information on the butterfly CD but there was the following contact > information. I seem to recall some discussion of this CD before, but I > don't remember any details. Mike Quinn) > > Todos los derechos reservados Editorial de Tecnologia Avanzada S.A. de C.V. > Sauces 33 Col. San Lorenzo Huipulco Mexico, D.F. 14370 > Tel: 55 73 41 69 / 55 13 99 40 > Fax: 55 73 54 84 / 55 13 98 50 > E-mail: carlos at solar.sar.net > > ====================================== > To unsubscribe, send the message SIGNOFF TX-BUTTERFLY to > LISTSERV at LIST.AUDUBON.ORG > To change to the daily digest, send the message SET TX-BUTTERFLY DIGEST to > LISTSERV at LIST.AUDUBON.ORG > TX-BUTTERFLY archives: > ====================================== From warrena at ava.bcc.orst.edu Tue May 30 14:45:31 2000 From: warrena at ava.bcc.orst.edu (Andrew Warren) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SoWestLep] [Fwd: "Mariposas Mexicanas" now on CD] In-Reply-To: <393135E6.36ACD06E@lafn.org> Message-ID: Users should know that the updated scientific and common names list Wanda is selling is unpublished information of mine that I have not authorized her to publish and distribute. Her list is a violation of copyright laws... Andy Warren On Sun, 28 May 2000, wanda wrote: > This is a GREAT DEAL! Think I paid $75 (+chunk for S&H) for each of > these coffee table books. Flutterby Press has updated book scientific > and common name listing ($5+1.50 S&H). Cheers, Wanda Dameron > > Flutterby Press > 23424 Jonathan St., Los Angeles, Ca. 91304 > > > Mike Quinn wrote: > > > > The following information is on the Iowa State Entomology Site: > > > > Mexican Butterflies "Mariposas Mexicanas" (Mexican Butterflies) by Roberto > > De la Maza is now available in both English and Spanish on CD-ROM. This > > CD-ROM also includes selected photos from "Chiapas Butterflies" by Javier > > and Roberto De la Maza Jr. Explore the world of Mexican butterflies through > > 2000 high-resolution full-color photographs and illustrations. Find > > detailed scientific information on the habitat, location, food sources, and > > flight zones of 651 species of Mexican butterflies. System Requirements: > > Windows 3.1, PC 386 SX, 8 MB RAM, SVGA 256 color monitor, CD-ROM drive > > double speed (2X). Retail price: $35.00 US plus shipping and handling. > > Telephone in Mexico 52-420-5959; Fax: 525-420-5942. > > > > > > > > (Above is the link provided on the Iowa State site. I didn't find any > > information on the butterfly CD but there was the following contact > > information. I seem to recall some discussion of this CD before, but I > > don't remember any details. Mike Quinn) > > > > Todos los derechos reservados Editorial de Tecnologia Avanzada S.A. de C.V. > > Sauces 33 Col. San Lorenzo Huipulco Mexico, D.F. 14370 > > Tel: 55 73 41 69 / 55 13 99 40 > > Fax: 55 73 54 84 / 55 13 98 50 > > E-mail: carlos at solar.sar.net > > > > ====================================== > > To unsubscribe, send the message SIGNOFF TX-BUTTERFLY to > > LISTSERV at LIST.AUDUBON.ORG > > To change to the daily digest, send the message SET TX-BUTTERFLY DIGEST to > > LISTSERV at LIST.AUDUBON.ORG > > TX-BUTTERFLY archives: > > ====================================== > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CLICK HERE***SPECIAL OFFER***$60 in FREE calls > ***SPECIAL OFFER***CLICK HERE > http://click.egroups.com/1/4127/1/_/460646/_/959526507/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > When the birds are few and far between-Look Down!, because there is a world of color you may have missed looking up. > From jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu Tue May 30 15:52:47 2000 From: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu (Bruce Walsh) Date: 30 May 00 12:52:47 -0700 Subject: Collecting around Eugene Message-ID: <200005301949.MAA32096@trifid.u.arizona.edu> I'm off on Friday to Eugene (Oregon) and am seeking local information on current collecting locations. THanks in advance! Cheers Bruce Bruce Walsh email: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu Office: 520 621-1915 Fax (Departmental) 520 621 9190 home page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu" Quantitative Genetics page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zbook/book.html" Arizona Moths page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/mothlist.html" Arizona butterflies page: "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/seazlist.html" From plauzolesp at bigvalley.net Tue May 30 14:41:27 2000 From: plauzolesp at bigvalley.net (Pierre A Plauzoles) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:41:27 -0700 Subject: Pointers in San Diego area? References: <390603FA.A27EE2F0@swipnet.se>, <3907BD5D.D533EEF5@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <39340B57.881FE86A@bigvalley.net> "Jeffrey A. Caldwell" wrote: > Hannu, I am not a San Diego local, but venture to suggest a few things. > "Birds and Butterflies of San Diego County" is a web site with a number of > good links for you and a color photo gallery of some of San Diego County > butterflies. It is at: > http://sdbirds.basiclink.com > > The web master is Douglas Aguillard, who I have not met personally but only > online. His email address is: doug at basiclink.com > he is a professional field guide, usually for birders but perhaps useful for > you anyway; his business web site is: > http://sdbirds.basiclink.com/socal_field_guides.html > > His site includes links to the local chapters of the North American > Butterfly Association [for San Diego County that would be the Los Angeles > and Orange County Chapters], but there are probably members of those > chapters that live in San Diego County; perhaps if you contact those local > NABA chapters you will find other lepidopterists who would love to meet you > and show you around. > > On Doug's site there is a link to an article [from NABA I think] about > butterflies in Anza-Borrego National Park in San Diego County. Anza-Borrego is a unit of the California State Park System. I am not sure, but it may also have its own web site as well. > One of the more useful links is for the San Diego Natural History Museum, > which presents a lot of information about San Diego County natural history > on their web site: > http://www.sdnhm.org/ Excellent web site. > Jeffrey A. Caldwell > California Garden Habitat Network > > Hannu Saarenmaa wrote: > > > I am a lepidopterologist from Scandinavia that will be visiting San > > Diego, California, on May 6-12. If any locals are reading this, I'd > > appreciate pointers to places to visit. Moreover suggestions for > > accommodations outside town but not too far commuting where I could stay > > and put out my light for moths would be welcome. For the casual visitor from abroad, such a visit can be quite daunting, but it needn't be. There are two things which, together, are the key to a pleasant and successful trip: 1/ communication with the proper individuals, 2/ possession of the right information. The American Automobile Association publishes a set of TourBooks and CampBooks. These list points of interest and overnight accomodations, and public and private campgrounds, respectively. Although perhaps not as complete as one would find in the Michelin Guides, the coverage is quite good. Personally, I would say that the quality of the information included is, on the whole, about equivalent. Accuracy of the information for some of the motels may not be quite as high as one would find in the Michelin publications, but on the whole, AAA TourBooks and CampBooks are reliable. Another source of information is the Woodall's camping directories., which are also pretty reliable. Both AAA and Woodall's publications are updated regularly, perhaps even yearly. Aside from San Diego County, you might want to go to Joshua Tree National Park, which is north of Indio and Salton Sea, which, like the Dead Sea, is n inland body of water in a fault-controlled depression. This the southeast end of the San Andreas Fault Zone, which is one of the world's most active fault systems and ends in northern California (San Diego County is west of Salton Sea). Since both National Park and State Park systems require permits for any kind of collecting within their boundaries, you should be careful of this situation as well: as far as I can tell, both the regulations and their enforcement are ogten quite strict and the rangers do patrol the area. Additionally, two other situations arise: immigration problems (Border Patrol agents patrol the area frequently), and poaching (State Park rangers and U S Fish and Wildlife Service wardens also patrol the area because of illegal collecting of certain species, including Federally- and State-listed endangered species, of which there are several in San Diego County). Don't get too close to the Mexican border, at least not without contacting the Border Patrol ahead of time (their offices are in San Diego and Calexico, if I recall correctly). I hope this helps. Pierre A Plauzoles sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com From warrena at ava.bcc.orst.edu Tue May 30 15:58:55 2000 From: warrena at ava.bcc.orst.edu (Andrew Warren) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SoWestLep] Collecting around Eugene In-Reply-To: <200005301949.MAA32096@trifid.u.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi Bruce, This is a brief report from Corvallis, OR. We had a wonderful, dryish, sunny April here and rain most of this month. About 20-25 butterfly species are on the wing now in the area. The past 5 days have been cool and rainy (I have heard- I was in Idaho), but it is supposed to be sunny and nice here by Thursday... I hit Hwy 58 SE of Eugene on May 20 and did not get much on the W side of the Cascades (P. eurymedon, B. epithore, E. comyntas), but found 20 species on the east side near Gilchrist in Klamath Co. Most of the early spring species in the Coast Range are already done flying (Callophrys, Euphydryas editha, overwintering Polygonias). The Coenonympha are thick right now... If you are looking for something in particular, let me know (in a private message)... Andy Warren On 30 May 2000, Bruce Walsh wrote: > I'm off on Friday to Eugene (Oregon) and am seeking local information on > current collecting locations. > > THanks in advance! > > Cheers > > Bruce > > > > Bruce Walsh > > email: jbwalsh at u.arizona.edu > Office: 520 621-1915 > Fax (Departmental) 520 621 9190 > > home page: > "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu" > > Quantitative Genetics page: > "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zbook/book.html" > > Arizona Moths page: > "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/mothlist.html" > > Arizona butterflies page: > "http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/seazlist.html" > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations. > Remember the good 'ol days > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/1/_/460646/_/959716148/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > When the birds are few and far between-Look Down!, because there is a world of color you may have missed looking up. > From ecosys at pacbell.net Tue May 30 21:44:45 2000 From: ecosys at pacbell.net (Jeffrey A. Caldwell) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:44:45 -0700 Subject: Pollination assessments References: <4.3.1.0.20000529153300.00ad7a10@pop.racsa.co.cr> Message-ID: <39346E8D.47745CF5@pacbell.net> It seems to me that for such a short study with limited resources to simply concentrate on making observations in both areas and compare could tell you a lot. Close observation of the flower visitors in the cultivated areas should give you an indication of what pollinators providing services are active at the time of the study. I would advocate captures mostly for the purpose of identification as necessary. Perhaps some of the more abundant and easily captured species would lend themselves to marking and later observation, but I question how well it will work with such a short study. The time, effort and resources of capturing might better be invested in making careful observations. Then try to see how the species observed as flower visitors in the cultivated areas fit into the forest; I suspect many pollinators will seem to have their "home base" there, or at least other valuable plants that help to sustain their numbers. Simple observation could include all types of flower visitors. "Julio M. Arias" wrote: > Hi all > > I am trying to design a field practice for my students and will welcome any friendly advice that can get from any of you. The goal is to measure in some way the value of pollination services from natural areas. The setting in question is a small protected forest surrounded by urban and agricultural areas (crops and pastures), of course in the tropics (Atenas, Costa Rica). I tought initially of working with bats, but later on reading that most pollination is done by Lepidoptera, Hymenoptera, Diptera and Coleoptera, I decided to drop the vertebrates. > > My approaches are to sample the diversity of potential pollinators in the forest and in another comparative area, and to try to mark pollinators in the forest or in the neigbour agricultural areas and try to recover it later in the forest. I only have less than a month for the students to do it. Does anyone have any suggestion/criticism/observation? My experience with bees and flies is minimal. > > Thanks in advance > > > Julio M. Arias-Reveron, Ph.D. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Center for Sustainable Development Studies > School for Field Studies > Apdo. 150-4013 > Atenas, Alajuela > Costa Rica > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Ph. (506)446-5558, (506)446-6960 > Home (506)460-3072 > JMArias at sol.racsa.co.cr > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From be496 at lafn.org Wed May 31 21:36:59 2000 From: be496 at lafn.org (wanda) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:36:59 -0700 Subject: Tamaulipas, Mex. BF Trip Message-ID: <3935BE3B.494DEAC1@lafn.org> Just received a note from Bob Stewart that he & Charlie Vieh are doing a BF trip to Tamaulipas 10-17 October. Can recommend it highly. 4 of us went there w/Charlie last fall and had our most magical trip yet in this butterfly paradise. Charlie having lived in Tamps for many years really knows the area, speaks the language and smooths the way & interfaces w/locals, besides an avid interest in butterflies.... Bob authored "Common BFs of Calif." , has an extensive natural history background, besides being a warm, personable, knowledgable leader. Limited to 8 persons. $1095. Contact Bob Stewart, Az. 520-394-9073 Wish I could go again, but have a wonderful time! Wanda Dameron, San Fernando Valley, Calif.