From jhimmel at mindspring.com Thu Aug 1 10:51:43 2002 From: jhimmel at mindspring.com (jh) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:51:43 -0400 Subject: Haploa clymene Message-ID: Leplisters - I've added a few new moths to "Moths in a CT Yard" since I last posted. The latest is Haploa clymene. Always liked 'em... Stop by www.connecticutmoths.com John <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From droberts03 at SNET.Net Thu Aug 1 12:47:43 2002 From: droberts03 at SNET.Net (Dale Roberts/Bill Yule) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:47:43 -0400 Subject: Haploa clymene References: Message-ID: <06b501c2397b$291fb660$9ac93ccc@DaleRoberts> Great photos of H. clymene John. JH's photos of the Clymene moth are indeed timely and they remind me of the sometimes astonishing synchronicity of moth emergence across broad bands of landscape. At the "TILS-Moth-rah" listserve there has been an ongoing "name that moth" photo game generated by an excellent photographer (Sheepdawg) who posts photos of moths unknown to him and the list subscribers get to name them. Tuesday night Sheepdawg posted a photo, "Unknown moth #41" and guess what it was? Right, clemene! Guess where it was photographed? Right, Indiana! See what I mean? The moths that "Dawg" photographs in Indiana are so similar in both species composition and emergence times to the moths that occur ON MY PORCH that Dawg joked "Why don't I just come over to your house to photograph these moths." Anyway I'm babbling on and on about this because YESTERDAY while walking a dirt road behind the Guilford Monastary (Connecticut)a big bright orange and cream-colored moth flew up in front of my face and landed on a goldenrod leaf and folded its wings to reveal the telltale pattern of St. Anthony's cross: Haploa clymene! It all makes you wonder. Bill Yule----- Original Message ----- From: "jh" To: Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:51 AM Subject: Haploa clymene > Leplisters - I've added a few new moths to "Moths in a CT Yard" since I last > posted. The latest is Haploa clymene. Always liked 'em... Stop by > www.connecticutmoths.com > > > John > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > John Himmelman > Killingworth, CT > jhimmel at mindspring.com > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Visit my websites at: > www.johnhimmelman.com > www.connecticutmoths.com > www.ctamphibians.com > ____________________________ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From lynnscott at heiconsulting.com Thu Aug 1 19:45:25 2002 From: lynnscott at heiconsulting.com (Lynn Scott) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:45:25 -0400 Subject: Ottawa Moths August 1 Update Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020801194448.00a72af8@pop.registeredsite.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020801/2f265645/attachment.html From ento at satx.rr.com Thu Aug 1 23:13:11 2002 From: ento at satx.rr.com (Mike Quinn) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 22:13:11 -0500 Subject: Rio Grande Valley Rarities - July 2002 Message-ID: <00d301c239d2$887cf080$bf244542@satx.rr.com> Looks like the coast was the hot end of Southmost Texas in July! Recent Rio Grande Valley Rarities (http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabast/recent.html) Gray Cracker (Hamadryas februa) - Jul 27 - Laguna Atascosa NWR - Rio Hondo, Cameron Co., TX Pale-rayed Skipper (Vidius perigenes) - Jul 27 - Laguna Atascosa NWR - Rio Hondo, Cameron Co., TX Ruddy Daggerwing (Marpesia petreus) - Jul 22 - Laguna Atascosa NWR - Rio Hondo, Cameron Co., TX Dark Kite-Swallowtail (Eurytides philolaus) - July 16 - South Padre Island, Cameron Co., TX Dingy Purplewing (Eunica monima) - Jul 2 - Laguna Atascosa NWR - Rio Hondo, Cameron Co., TX Mike Quinn ______________________ Texas Entomology http://home.satx.rr.com/txento ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Fri Aug 2 07:15:42 2002 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 07:15:42 -0400 Subject: First Monarch References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020802000945.02bffb80@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3D4A69DD.690183C5@eohsi.rutgers.edu> On July 31st we saw the first Monarch of the year in our yard. Monarchs were generally absent or in very low numbers on our early July counts. This is sort of a boom or bust species in central NJ, though not as dramatically as the Painted Lady (Vanessa cardui). Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jhimmel at mindspring.com Sun Aug 4 14:13:49 2002 From: jhimmel at mindspring.com (jh) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 14:13:49 -0400 Subject: UI Pyralidae Message-ID: Any chance someone out there could ID this little pyralid for me? http://booksandnature.homestead.com/misc2.html It's fairly common in my parts (northeast US) and is found in open grassy habitats. TIA - John Himmelman <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Sun Aug 4 21:15:20 2002 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 18:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ecology Today...Monday ,5 August Message-ID: <20020805011520.92681.qmail@web12204.mail.yahoo.com> Greetings:) On Monday, Time: 11-Noon EDST Tune 1520 AM (Tampa Bay Area) or simulcast on the WWW. There is a slow stream by camcorder and the shows are re-broadcast on the internet only... every day 5-6 PM on a random basis. This week's show, "Coniferous Forests Ecosystems". CO-hosts Steve Komlos and Bob Parcelles talking about the Boreal and other coniferous forests and zones. Call in and talk about the birds, butterflies, herps wildflower,etc. This is another in the continuing Ecosytems Series. Still in the mountains but now in the coniferous instead of the decidous areas. Check Nature Potpourri for basics and sites to be prepared. On the 12th of August Joe Murphy and Katy Anderson wwill interview Susannah Lindberg and Suzanne Tar on the current Manatee issues and their biology. 1520 AM Tampa Bay and http://www.hawkradio.com. (supported by RealPlayer) a free download). e mail: dj at hawkradio.com Call In: 813-253-7592 *************************************************************************************************** CommUNITY Media Networks [CMN]is a Project of the Bay World Public Tust, Inc [BWPTi]...A Florida Based Think Tank. "Ecology Today" is Produced by CMN in partnership with the Clean Millennium Movement [C2M/BWPTi]. Produced and Directed by Bob Parcelles, Jr. Chairman of the C2M and Senior VP of BWPTi. CO-hosted by Stephen Garrett Komlos, Lynn Marshall, Joe Murphy, JB Lower, and Katy Anderson naturalists, educators. activists and biologists. Katy Anderson, our Environmental Communications Specialist, heads up our production staff. This Eco-team brings you the most up-to-date information on local, state and national environmental topics and issues. Each week from 1-3 guests are on the show for your listening pleasure and enlightenment. Coming soon FM, Public Access and PBS. ********************************************************************** Thanks and see ya on the radio, Bob ##################################################################### ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL RJP Associates & Clean Millennium Movement (C2M) rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri "Change your thoughts and you change your world." - Norman Vincent Peale __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jmmaes at ibw.com.ni Mon Aug 5 09:50:29 2002 From: jmmaes at ibw.com.ni (Jean-Michel Maes) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:50:29 -0600 Subject: CD ROM : Lucanidae of Thailand Message-ID: <852013-2200281513502910@museoent> Para : member of LEPS-L e-mail : leps-l at lists.yale.edu Pa?s : USA Dear member of LEPS-L, It's for us a pleasure to announce our new CD ROM LUCANIDAE OF THAILAND result of the collaboration with Amnuay PINRATANA. This CD ROM presents the 115 Lucanidae beetles reported from Thailnd (some are new reports), pictures and distribution maps of each species are provided and even in many species differents pictures permit a better opinion about the morphological variation of the species. This CD ROM is english version and can be run on IBM and clones. Value : 20 US $ + 5 US $ for sending costs. We take also this opportunity to tell you about our promotion (33 % less) on our precedent CD ROMs : MARIPOSAS DE NICARAGUA (butterflies of Nicaragua / Spanish version, with many pictures of all the species) INSECTOS ASOCIADOS A CULTIVOS DE TROPICO HUMEDO DE NICARAGUA (Insects associated with humid-tropics crops of Nicaragua, spanish version with many pictures and a checklist of all the insects reported from Nicaragua and associated with crops like : cocoa, cocnuts, mahogany, cassava, maracuya (Passiflora edulis), black pepper, vainilla, and many more). Each CD ROM for 20 US $ + 5 US $ of sending costs. Sincerely, Jean-Michel. P.S. This e-mail is send you personnally. The unique function of this e-mail is give you information about our activities. If you do not want to receive more e-mails from us, just let me know at the same e-mail, and I will remove your adress from our adress book. A.P. 527 (Do not use DHL or similar) Le?n Nicaragua tel. 505-0-311-6586 fax. 505-0-311-0126 www.insectariumvirtual.com/termitero/nicaragua/MEL HOME PAGE.htm (Home page) www.museum.unl.edu/research/entomology/database2/honduintro.htm (Scarabaeidae) www.windsofkansas.com/nicaragua.html (Odonata) www.geocities.com/krislinde/pdf/JMMAES.pdf (bibliografia) ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gganweiler at sprint.ca Mon Aug 5 05:20:42 2002 From: gganweiler at sprint.ca (Gary Anweiler) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:20:42 -0000 Subject: UI Pyralidae References: Message-ID: Looks more like a Crambid to me, no ??? Gary "jh" wrote in message news:JFELJJILCLMFAAPONDOKMEDLCDAA.jhimmel at mindspring.com... > Any chance someone out there could ID this little pyralid for me? > http://booksandnature.homestead.com/misc2.html It's fairly common in my > parts (northeast US) and is found in open grassy habitats. > > TIA - > > John Himmelman > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > John Himmelman > Killingworth, CT > jhimmel at mindspring.com > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Visit my websites at: > www.johnhimmelman.com > www.connecticutmoths.com > www.ctamphibians.com > ____________________________ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jhimmel at mindspring.com Mon Aug 5 11:57:05 2002 From: jhimmel at mindspring.com (jh) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:57:05 -0400 Subject: UI Pyralidae In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to all of you who responded to my UI pyralid (http://booksandnature.homestead.com/misc2.html) query. Several of you had suggested it was looking a lot like Chrysoteuchia culmella, but thought it would be out of its range. I think Martin Honey nailed it with Chrysoteuchia topiaria (Cranberry Girdler), which does occur here in the states (and in Connecticut) and feeds on cranberries, grasses and other plants. The spot where I photographed was adjacent to a cranberry bog. By the way, Martin also turned me onto a new moth site - Moths of North Dakota - very helpful. Here is a picture of C. topiaria from that site. http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/ndmoths/names/5391.htm You can get to the main pages of the online guide from there. Best - John <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ -----Original Message----- From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu]On Behalf Of Gary Anweiler Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 5:21 AM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Subject: Re: UI Pyralidae Looks more like a Crambid to me, no ??? Gary "jh" wrote in message news:JFELJJILCLMFAAPONDOKMEDLCDAA.jhimmel at mindspring.com... > Any chance someone out there could ID this little pyralid for me? > http://booksandnature.homestead.com/misc2.html It's fairly common in my > parts (northeast US) and is found in open grassy habitats. > > TIA - > > John Himmelman > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > John Himmelman > Killingworth, CT > jhimmel at mindspring.com > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Visit my websites at: > www.johnhimmelman.com > www.connecticutmoths.com > www.ctamphibians.com > ____________________________ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2856 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020805/6c6a4312/attachment.bin From jhimmel at mindspring.com Mon Aug 5 13:33:15 2002 From: jhimmel at mindspring.com (jh) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:33:15 -0400 Subject: Correction! UI Pyralidae Message-ID: Uh oh. What you are witnessing is an evolving search of an ID of a little moth using the internet. (I've exhausted my reference books). If you are getting sick of this, I think it is winding down... By evolving, I mean I just heard from Brian Scholtens who says it is NOT C. topiaria, but is Parapediasia decorella, a crambus that occurs in CT and, according to Brian, well, here's what he wrote; "It is actually Parapediasia decorella, another quite common crambid of the south and east coast. The related species P. teterrella is also quite common, but lacks the orangish lines across the forewings." I cannot find an image of this bug anywhere. I've traveled to Europe and the northern and southern ends of the continent searching for an answer - without leaving my studio. Pretty cool, eh? The LEP-list at its best. Thanks again, and sorry for the confusion. John <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu] > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:57 AM > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: RE: UI Pyralidae > > Thanks to all of you who responded to my UI pyralid (http://booksandnature.homestead.com/misc2.html) query. Several of you had suggested it was looking a lot like Chrysoteuchia culmella, but thought it would be out of its range. I think Martin Honey nailed it with Chrysoteuchia topiaria (Cranberry Girdler), which does occur here in the states (and in Connecticut) and feeds on cranberries, grasses and other plants. The spot where I photographed was adjacent to a cranberry bog. > > By the way, Martin also turned me onto a new moth site - Moths of North Dakota - very helpful. Here is a picture of C. topiaria from that site. http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/ndmoths/names/5391.htm You can get to the main pages of the online guide from there. > > Best - > > John > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > John Himmelman > Killingworth, CT > jhimmel at mindspring.com > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Visit my websites at: > www.johnhimmelman.com > www.connecticutmoths.com > www.ctamphibians.com > ____________________________ > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu]On > Behalf Of Gary Anweiler > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 5:21 AM > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: Re: UI Pyralidae > > > Looks more like a Crambid to me, no ??? > > Gary > > "jh" wrote in message > news:JFELJJILCLMFAAPONDOKMEDLCDAA.jhimmel at mindspring.com... > > Any chance someone out there could ID this little pyralid for me? > > http://booksandnature.homestead.com/misc2.html It's fairly common in my > > parts (northeast US) and is found in open grassy habitats. > > > > TIA - > > > > John Himmelman > > > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > John Himmelman > > Killingworth, CT > > jhimmel at mindspring.com > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > Visit my websites at: > > www.johnhimmelman.com > > www.connecticutmoths.com > > www.ctamphibians.com > > ____________________________ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020805/8b9bf17b/attachment.bin From monarch at saber.net Mon Aug 5 11:54:10 2002 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 15:54:10 +0000 Subject: Western Monarchs are doing better this summer References: <3D39E999.8DA39999@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3D4E9FA2.79C2@saber.net> Last winter monarch overwintering populations along the California coast were way below normal. By mid June, however, monarchs were a common sight at milkweed patches around the western USA. How the monarchs recover so rapidly is not well understood. Most of the western monarch summer breeding habitat is man made. For example, in the Mount Shasta area of extreme northern California milkweed plants have invaded patches of forest that were that were clear cut several decades ago. In this way, human activity inadvertently creates new breeding opportunities for monarchs. Here are two photos I took on July 11, 2002 of milkweed in the Mount Shasta area growing on clear cut forest land: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/shastaper.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/stewspg3.jpg A couple years ago monarch biologist Dr. Karen Oberhauser asked kind of jokingly: "Is logging ever good for monarchs ? Well its no joke that logging has been good in some circumstances for western monarchs. Paul Cherubini Placerville, Calif. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From erunquist at hotmail.com Mon Aug 5 19:38:26 2002 From: erunquist at hotmail.com (Erik Runquist) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:38:26 -0700 Subject: Western Monarchs are doing better this summer Message-ID: Monarchs are certainly very common here in SW Oregon right now, much more so than last year! Indeed, I transfered 50 wild 5th instars off our milkweed patch just yesterday. They were stripping it bare, and there at least another 30 down there. Despite the thick smoke from our fires, two males were actively patrolling the patch of wild A. speciosa I transfered them to. I'm seeing at least a few monarchs everyday I am out doing my butterfly surveys in our local Cascade-Siskiyou National Monument (not great Monarch habitat), and adults are a readily predictable sight at milkweed patches. Erik Runquist >From: Paul Cherubini >Reply-To: monarch at saber.net >To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu >Subject: Western Monarchs are doing better this summer >Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 15:54:10 +0000 > >Last winter monarch overwintering populations along the California >coast were way below normal. By mid June, however, >monarchs were a common sight at milkweed patches >around the western USA. How the monarchs recover so >rapidly is not well understood. > >Most of the western monarch summer breeding habitat >is man made. For example, in the Mount Shasta area >of extreme northern California milkweed plants have >invaded patches of forest that were that were clear cut >several decades ago. In this way, human activity inadvertently >creates new breeding opportunities for monarchs. Here >are two photos I took on July 11, 2002 of >milkweed in the Mount Shasta area growing on clear cut >forest land: > >http://www.saber.net/~monarch/shastaper.jpg >http://www.saber.net/~monarch/stewspg3.jpg > >A couple years ago monarch biologist Dr. Karen >Oberhauser asked kind of jokingly: "Is logging >ever good for monarchs ? Well its no joke that logging >has been good in some circumstances for western monarchs. > >Paul Cherubini >Placerville, Calif. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Mon Aug 5 20:05:24 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 20:05:24 -0400 Subject: Western Monarchs are doing better this summer References: <3D39E999.8DA39999@swbell.net> <3D4E9FA2.79C2@saber.net> Message-ID: <002c01c23cdc$f6fad2e0$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Cherubini" To: Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 11:54 AM Subject: Western Monarchs are doing better this summer > Last winter monarch overwintering populations along the California > coast were way below normal. By mid June, however, > monarchs were a common sight at milkweed patches > around the western USA. How the monarchs recover so > rapidly is not well understood. > > Most of the western monarch summer breeding habitat > is man made. For example, in the Mount Shasta area > of extreme northern California milkweed plants have > invaded patches of forest that were that were clear cut > several decades ago. In this way, human activity inadvertently > creates new breeding opportunities for monarchs. Here > are two photos I took on July 11, 2002 of > milkweed in the Mount Shasta area growing on clear cut > forest land: > > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/shastaper.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/stewspg3.jpg > > A couple years ago monarch biologist Dr. Karen > Oberhauser asked kind of jokingly: "Is logging > ever good for monarchs ? Well its no joke that logging > has been good in some circumstances for western monarchs. > > Paul Cherubini > Placerville, Calif. And this is why none of this is "simple". I would have a hard time imagining that anyone would doubt that man is both the best friend and at the same time enemy of things natural. But is that really true? Only if we consider humans aliens. As is pointed out from others from time to time, we humans are a natural part (and significant part) of this planet's natural systems. I have never heard anyone (but Paul) point out to us that it is human activity that is the major positive force behind the newly evolving dynamics of Monarchs in the southwest US. I know a lot of people don't like this phrase, but Monarchs are a "weedy" species. Let's say for the sake of argument that we humans end up altering the environment enough that Monarchs can no longer overwinter in the current location in Mexico. But at the same time humans have created many conducive environs in California for _new_ overwintering sites and breeding areas. Could it be that 1,000 years from now we as a species learned to not be so hard on ourselves because we came to see that we too are a very necessary part of the balances of nature? Like letting the fires of Yellowstone burn, we have to be allowed to do what we do - "good" and "bad"?. Which brings up something else I wonder about. It really seems to me that the attention of many is _not_ to keep Monarchs from going extinct but the maintenance of the _phenomenon_ of Mexican overwintering. Monarchs are in no danger whatsoever of going "extinct" as a species. Yet, in the PR war to protect the phenomenon, we are given the impression that without it they_may_ go extinct. Well, I guess I have opened the can of worms this time :-). But it's getting that time of year again soon when this topic will come up again. For those who have never experienced it before, the debate and factors are always the same year after year. Oversimplified, the news is always on the edge of crisis (doom and gloom) from one camp and nothing to be concerned about from the other (the perpetual silver lining). My suggestion is to just sit back and relax and watch the debate (sparks) - as it is very educational (though at times personal and quite testy). Ron Gatrelle ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Mon Aug 5 20:20:41 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:20:41 -0400 Subject: Rocky Mountain High - Part 3 Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A654@hqmail.gensym.com> On Monday, July 22, my family and I ventured northeast of Gunnison, Colorado to drive over the spectacular Cottonwood Pass - elevation, 12,136 ft. The road surface turns quickly into dirt - but it is well grated and makes for easy driving. This is one of the biggest differences between the Rocky Mountains and the High Sierra Nevada Mountains I've enjoyed for a lifetime in California. In Colorado they've grated jeep trails to many of the highest elevations. In the Sierra's, there are only a few roads that penetrate the highest elevations - and these are principally limited to low mountain passes. I suspect that one of the major reasons for this was the mining boom that occurred in much of Colorado during the last part of the 19th century. Precious stones and minerals have a way of convincing people to build roads where they would otherwise be content with primitive walking trails. We arrived at the pass at 10:30 a.m., and found the barren peaks highlighted with much sunlight. The temperature, which had been well into the 90's since leaving southern California, was now dipping below 60 degrees F. There was also a good strong wind blowing. Nevertheless, we decided to hop out and search a few of the high mountain meadows for butterflies. We found the meadows damp and full of flowers, and as we walked softly along we began seeing our first Colias meadii (Mead's Sulphur) zipping out from below the arctic meadow tufts. This butterfly reminded me of the sierran Colias behrii, both incredibly green below and having the tendancy to disappear after erratically alighting in the meadow grass. Unlike Behr's, however, Mead's Sulphur has a stunning orange dorsal color. They are so orange, in fact, that it is easy to mistake them for Speyeria or Boloria upon first sighting. These sulphurs, along with many of the other species we would find, would tend to fly great distances after being spooked from their resting spots. This, coupled with the steep, uneven terrain and general lack of oxygen made it particularly difficult to pursue them en chase. We (my son was the only one who was willing to venture with me into the alpine wilderness) had less than a 10% success rate. We coined a new name - the Misty Mountain Flop - for the resulting acrobatics. Every now and then something totally new would emerge from the tundra flora and we would find ourselves in an accelerating downhill sprint - only to end with empty net and suffering from severe hyperventilation. It can be particularly hard to suck air at 12,000 ft. Another interesting phenomenon occurs in this habitat. Arctic Lepidoptera seem to be well equipped for falling at a whim and disappearing into the darkest depths of the arctic meadow landscape. I managed to trap one freshly emerged Boloria eunomia (Bog Fritillary) against it's perch with my net, only to discover that the insect had completely disappeared. Even after much combing of the stunted undergrowth, I still was unable to locate this butterfly. Amazing. While butterflies from other habitats are quick to leap up and out of the way, these bugs seem to know that their best chances of escape are to fall limp and to fall down. It's effective, that's for sure. It leaves the amateur butterfly hunter scratching its head. I spent a lot of time scratching. After only an hour or so, the weather maker that is the Continental Divide reared it's spectacular head once again. In just a matter of minutes, the whole area was consumed by a thunderhead which grew before our very eyes. And in ten minutes, the hail began. Good sized hailstones (on the order of 5 mm in diameter) rained down upon us, stinging our flesh. We made a mad dash for the vehicle, and then sat and admired the animated storm from within the confines of our rental vehicle. That would be the end of our butterflying for the day. One hour at 12,000 ft. and then it was over. It seemed a shame to drive so far for just an hour. But then we realized that the bugs and habitat that we had just experienced, as well as the calisthenics they demanded, made it all easily worthwhile. Our list: Parnassius smintheus (Rocky Mountain Parnassian) Colias meadii (Mead's Sulphur) Colias scudderi (Scudder's Sulphur) Lycaena nivalis (Nivalis Copper) Plebejus saepiolus (Greenish Blue) Plebejus icarioides (Boisduval's Blue) Agriades glandon (Arctic Blue) Speyeria mormonia (Mormon Fritillary) Boloria eunomia (Bog Fritillary) Boloria chariclea (Arctic Fritillary) Phyciodes pratensis (Field Crescentspot) Erebia epipsodea (Common Alpine) Erebia callias (Colorado Alpine) Mark Walker -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020805/4a9a241c/attachment.html From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Mon Aug 5 21:09:35 2002 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 21:09:35 -0400 Subject: elegant photograph References: <3D39E999.8DA39999@swbell.net> <3D4E9FA2.79C2@saber.net> Message-ID: <3D4F21CF.76B0B573@eohsi.rutgers.edu> Lovely Monarch photo against the Shasta backdrop. What is the Milkweed species. The florets have longer petals than our Common Milkweed. I noticed this when I was in Oregon last week. MIKE GOCHFELD Paul Cherubini wrote: > Last winter monarch overwintering populations along the California > coast were way below normal. By mid June, however, > monarchs were a common sight at milkweed patches > around the western USA. How the monarchs recover so > rapidly is not well understood. > > Most of the western monarch summer breeding habitat > is man made. For example, in the Mount Shasta area > of extreme northern California milkweed plants have > invaded patches of forest that were that were clear cut > several decades ago. In this way, human activity inadvertently > creates new breeding opportunities for monarchs. Here > are two photos I took on July 11, 2002 of > milkweed in the Mount Shasta area growing on clear cut > forest land: > > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/shastaper.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/stewspg3.jpg > > A couple years ago monarch biologist Dr. Karen > Oberhauser asked kind of jokingly: "Is logging > ever good for monarchs ? Well its no joke that logging > has been good in some circumstances for western monarchs. > > Paul Cherubini > Placerville, Calif. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Mon Aug 5 21:20:57 2002 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 21:20:57 -0400 Subject: [leps-talk] Rocky Mountain High - Part 3 References: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A654@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <3D4F2478.83F8515B@eohsi.rutgers.edu> I was really glad to read Mark's post. My recent experience with alpine species in Wyoming was similar. They would alight and disappear into clumps of bunch grasses or forbs. Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Tue Aug 6 00:34:24 2002 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:34:24 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Hiding in the tundra... Message-ID: Mark Walker commented, re Rocky Mtn. tundra collecting: > Arctic Lepidoptera seem to be well equipped for falling at a whim and > disappearing into the darkest depths of the arctic meadow landscape. They do indeed. Many times I have had a specimen under my net, and have been unable to find it. The underside color patterns are amazingly good camouflage, and the butterflies crawl way down into the vegetation and appear to vanish. That's not as bad as what the scree inhabitants do, however. They pop down into the cracks between rocks--and will sometimes emerge several feet away, leaving the impression that they can _fly_ through the scree. Oh well--at least in the tundra they can't thumb their noses at you from the treetops... Ken Philip ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Tue Aug 6 09:07:31 2002 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 06:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Western Monarchs are doing better this summer In-Reply-To: <002c01c23cdc$f6fad2e0$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20020806130731.85849.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ron Gatrelle wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Cherubini" > And this is why none of this is "simple". I would > have a hard time > imagining that anyone would doubt that man is both > the best friend and at > the same time enemy of things natural. But is that > really true? Only if > we consider humans aliens. As is pointed out from > others from time to > time, we humans are a natural part (and significant > part) of this planet's > natural systems. I have never heard anyone (but > Paul) point out to us > that it is human activity that is the major positive > force behind the newly > evolving dynamics of Monarchs in the southwest US. > I know a lot of people > don't like this phrase, but Monarchs are a "weedy" > species. > > Let's say for the sake of argument that we humans > end up altering the > environment enough that Monarchs can no longer > overwinter in the current > location in Mexico. But at the same time humans > have created many > conducive environs in California for _new_ > overwintering sites and breeding > areas. Could it be that 1,000 years from now we as > a species learned to > not be so hard on ourselves because we came to see > that we too are a very > necessary part of the balances of nature? Like > letting the fires of > Yellowstone burn, we have to be allowed to do what > we do - "good" and > "bad"?. > > Which brings up something else I wonder about. It > really seems to me that > the attention of many is _not_ to keep Monarchs from > going extinct but the > maintenance of the _phenomenon_ of Mexican > overwintering. Monarchs are > in no danger whatsoever of going "extinct" as a > species. Yet, in the PR > war to protect the phenomenon, we are given the > impression that without it > they_may_ go extinct. > > Well, I guess I have opened the can of worms this > time :-). But it's > getting that time of year again soon when this topic > will come up again. > For those who have never experienced it before, the > debate and factors are > always the same year after year. Oversimplified, > the news is always on the > edge of crisis (doom and gloom) from one camp and > nothing to be concerned > about from the other (the perpetual silver lining). > My suggestion is to > just sit back and relax and watch the debate > (sparks) - as it is very > educational (though at times personal and quite > testy). > > Ron Gatrelle ==== Ron simple it certainly is not. Paul, it is too early for this. Leps are flying. No I am just kidding. this is a valid point. and i am not against all clear cutting. i also agree that while, the iisies in Mexico are important. the monarch is not in danger of any immediate extinction. But the science is good, the spin might be overstated. (Not yours, Brower et al). Now after a midnight raid from Ron... Let the games begin! Hmmmmmmmmm! Bob ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL RJP Associates & Clean Millennium Movement (C2M) rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri "Change your thoughts and you change your world." - Norman Vincent Peale __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MexicoDoug at aol.com Tue Aug 6 13:29:00 2002 From: MexicoDoug at aol.com (MexicoDoug at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 13:29:00 EDT Subject: Hiding in the tundra...[theory?] Message-ID: En un mensaje con fecha 08/05/2002 11:57:16 PM Central Daylight Time, fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu escribe: Ken & Mark, et. al, I remember once trying to photograph what I believed to be an _Icaricia lupini_ (Lupine Blue) in a quite high mountain meadow in the Cascades of Washington State (6,800 feet). As I pursued, my victim gave me a cold shoulder: it executed a number tricky manuevers including lethargic milk runs to the next convenient plant, and falling to the ground and semidisappearing. True, Mark's observations at 12,000 feet were much higher, but it is also true that as you get further north, air pressures are somewhat lower at the same altitude. By Alaska this certainly ought to be noticable. Perhaps the latitude effectis not too significant but I hope some of the physicists on the list can criticize the following attempt at a contributing explanation to this adaptative behavior in such environments, brought to our attention by Mark: "LIFT" and "FLIGHT" for butterflies. - At 6,800 feet and 47 Degrees North latitude on a nice, warm summer day, VERY unscientific sample of one (or a few), burrowing manuevers were 30/70 to skipping-out flight manuevers. - At 12,000 feet and 38.8 Degrees North Latitude on a nice soon to rain summer day it appears that the burrowing manuevers are more common from Mark's text, than the 30/70. And on the Alaskan slopes they burrow through rocks as seen by Ken:). - Air pressure is about 55% that of sealevel at 12,000 feet, let me guess that this roughly will translate to 55% the lift for a spooked butterfly using equivalent force as one at sea level with firm wings (e.g., Papilionadae). - Smaller butterflies, (like Lycaenidae) probably depend more on the "snap" caused by near thorax wing deformation to initially generate the lift necessary to ascend initially upon take off. Thus their acceleration efforts will be significantly less than the 55%, probably on the order of 30%. (square of the 55%) - Oxygen uptake for muscle function if aerobic respiration, at 12,000 feet and 38.8 degrees N. may drop to about 80%, based on human aveolar oxygen saturation, a poor, nonetheless worthwile reference point. This could attenuate the available flight energy an additional "20%" or more depending upon their energy conversion efficiency for the butterflies. And the saturation may take longer to achieve at these pressures and "deficits". - While alpine-tundra butterflies are undoubtable more evolved for their environmental conditions, the basic premises above will have a strong impact and the basic laws of physics not violated. And I am not so sure that the evolution would be so dramatic in many cases, because, the ranges of many of these butterfly species include less austere conditions in many cases. - Of course, with a possibility of only 20% - 40% the energy-lift available, I might decide to adapt, hiding by burrowing into the ground - if I were a butterfy being pursued on "The Far Side". And we think walking is complicated, imagine how hard they have to work to fly! Mark congrats on bringing your son with you, no doubt the experience through his senses is nothing short of envious and will be remembered for a lifetime... Ken, you did study physics at one time, so please give me a hand here with your opinion... Best...Doug Dawn Monterrey, Mexico > Mark Walker commented, re Rocky Mtn. tundra collecting: > > > Arctic Lepidoptera seem to be well equipped for falling at a whim and > > disappearing into the darkest depths of the arctic meadow landscape. > > They do indeed. Many times I have had a specimen under my net, and > have been unable to find it. The underside color patterns are amazingly > good camouflage, and the butterflies crawl way down into the vegetation > and appear to vanish. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020806/9d6e095f/attachment.html From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Tue Aug 6 14:33:54 2002 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:33:54 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Hiding in the tundra...[theory?] Message-ID: > but it is also true that as you get further north, air pressures are > somewhat lower at the same altitude. By Alaska this certainly ought > to be noticable. Well, not very. The pressure difference due to the thinner atmosphere at high latitudes is a millibar or so, or around 1 per mil (= 0.1%)--and that applies for the same elevation _and the same temperature_, and also the same conditions regarding cyclones and anticyclones. The North Slope lies at low elevations--the Arctic Coastal Plain is essentially at sea level. Furthermore, during clear summer weather the Slope often lies within the Polar High. Finally, air temperatures are cooler than in similar elevations at lower latitudes. The result is that atmospheric pressures are normally _higher_ than at lower latitudes at the same date. By the way, note that a few years ago commercial airliners were unable to land at Fairbanks because a Siberian air mass had moved in, with no temperature inversion at all, and ground temperatures around -55F. The result was that pressure was so high that the planes' altimeters were reading off scale. Temperature wins as against the thinner atmosphere! According to the local Weather Bureau people, Alaska is one of the few places in the US where atmospheric pressure often exceeds 31 inches. In my opinion, the tundra-hiding behavior of arctic butterflies has nothing to do with atmospheric pressure--and everything to do with the obvious fact that there's nowhere else to hide. :-) Ken Philip ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Guy_VdP at t-online.de Tue Aug 6 14:40:57 2002 From: Guy_VdP at t-online.de (Guy_VdP at t-online.de) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 20:40:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Hiding in the tundra...[theory?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1028658299.3d50147b18828@webmail.t-online.de> This summer I was in Turkey in the Taurus Mts at approx 2000 m (some 6000 feet?) and later in the Swiss Alps (Valais) at about the same altitude. I noticed the same phenomenon, but did not think that far. I thought they dived down and hid because they were usually flying low over the (alpine) vegetation and rocks, where the wind is less noticeable and the heat of the sun is not dispersed that quickly. If you start hunting them, they will usually fly higher and thus cool down more rapidly. The difference was really noticeable on the slopes, where the same species flew, but due to the more direct exposure to the sun's radiation, were able to fly harder and especially longer (lost lots of breath over there). Also on the slopes there was a warm wind coming out of the valley, warm enough not to cool them down. On the meadows though, the wind came from the north, from over the mountain tops. Sometimes, when under my net, I could better use my forceps to get them into my jar. Guy. MexicoDoug at aol.com schrieb: > En un mensaje con fecha 08/05/2002 11:57:16 PM Central > Daylight Time, > fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu escribe: > > Ken & Mark, et. al, > > I remember once trying to photograph what I believed to > be an _Icaricia > lupini_ (Lupine Blue) in a quite high mountain meadow in > the Cascades of > Washington State (6,800 feet). As I pursued, my victim > gave me a cold > shoulder: it executed a number tricky manuevers including > lethargic milk runs > to the next convenient plant, and falling to the ground > and semidisappearing. > True, Mark's observations at 12,000 feet were much > higher, but it is also > true that as you get further north, air pressures are > somewhat lower at the > same altitude. By Alaska this certainly ought to be > noticable. Perhaps the > latitude effectis not too significant but I hope some of > the physicists on > the list can criticize the following attempt at a > contributing explanation to > this adaptative behavior in such environments, brought to > our attention by > Mark: > > "LIFT" and "FLIGHT" for butterflies. > > - At 6,800 feet and 47 Degrees North latitude on a nice, > warm summer day, > VERY unscientific sample of one (or a few), burrowing > manuevers were 30/70 to > skipping-out flight manuevers. > > - At 12,000 feet and 38.8 Degrees North Latitude on a > nice soon to rain > summer day it appears that the burrowing manuevers are > more common from > Mark's text, than the 30/70. And on the Alaskan slopes > they burrow through > rocks as seen by Ken:). > > - Air pressure is about 55% that of sealevel at 12,000 > feet, let me guess > that this roughly will translate to 55% the lift for a > spooked butterfly > using equivalent force as one at sea level with firm > wings (e.g., > Papilionadae). > > - Smaller butterflies, (like Lycaenidae) probably depend > more on the "snap" > caused by near thorax wing deformation to initially > generate the lift > necessary to ascend initially upon take off. Thus their > acceleration efforts > will be significantly less than the 55%, probably on the > order of 30%. > (square of the 55%) > > - Oxygen uptake for muscle function if aerobic > respiration, at 12,000 feet > and 38.8 degrees N. may drop to about 80%, based on human > aveolar oxygen > saturation, a poor, nonetheless worthwile reference > point. This could > attenuate the available flight energy an additional "20%" > or more depending > upon their energy conversion efficiency for the > butterflies. And the > saturation may take longer to achieve at these pressures > and "deficits". > > - While alpine-tundra butterflies are undoubtable more > evolved for their > environmental conditions, the basic premises above will > have a strong impact > and the basic laws of physics not violated. And I am not > so sure that the > evolution would be so dramatic in many cases, because, > the ranges of many of > these butterfly species include less austere conditions > in many cases. > > - Of course, with a possibility of only 20% - 40% the > energy-lift available, > I might decide to adapt, hiding by burrowing into the > ground - if I were a > butterfy being pursued on "The Far Side". And we think > walking is > complicated, imagine how hard they have to work to fly! > > Mark congrats on bringing your son with you, no doubt the > experience through > his senses is nothing short of envious and will be > remembered for a > lifetime... > > Ken, you did study physics at one time, so please give me > a hand here with > your opinion... > > Best...Doug Dawn > Monterrey, Mexico > > > > Mark Walker commented, re Rocky Mtn. tundra > collecting: > > > > > Arctic Lepidoptera seem to be well equipped for > falling at a whim and > > > disappearing into the darkest depths of the arctic > meadow landscape. > > > > They do indeed. Many times I have had a specimen > under my net, and > > have been unable to find it. The underside color > patterns are amazingly > > good camouflage, and the butterflies crawl way down > into the vegetation > > and appear to vanish. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Guy_VdP at t-online.de Tue Aug 6 15:06:43 2002 From: Guy_VdP at t-online.de (Guy_VdP at t-online.de) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 21:06:43 +0200 (CEST) Subject: forma pluvialis Message-ID: <1028659610.3d50199aa3ac0@webmail.t-online.de> While on a run today, after some months of constant rain, I noticed that several of the female Pieris napi around here (Heidelberg area, Germany) showed really dark markings. I noticed that before, in my home country Belgium, in a likewise summer (that actually did not deserve that name). In Atalanta (German magazine), females like this have been described as being an ecological form, in the article specimens from a valley in the Black Forest (SW of Germany) showed very dark markings. Usually, in such valleys, the humidity is much higher than in open areas - I know of comparable circonstances in the nearby Odenwald. Sometimes you can find specimens that have the discal spots interconnected, in a way resembling Pieris bryoniae, though in most cases lacking the bryoniae-streak. The ground-colour is always white. The interesting fact is that I saw these in the vally of the Rhine, an open area where wind usually dries everything really quickly and creates a kind of steppe-climate (plains-climate ?), some 5 km away from the sheltering hills of the Bergstrasse and Odenwald. The wind did not stand a chance this year - some of the guys on this list seem to have a good relationship with the guys upstairs - could you not ask them to close the pipes so that we could still get a little bit of summer ? ;-) Guy. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MexicoDoug at aol.com Tue Aug 6 17:47:03 2002 From: MexicoDoug at aol.com (MexicoDoug at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 17:47:03 EDT Subject: Hiding in the tundra...[theory?] Message-ID: <97.2bae6c2a.2a819dd7@aol.com> Ken, Re: my question on the significance of the impact at northerly latitudes lowering absolute atmospheric pressures was a little too much wishful thinking to make it fit with the thread [theory?]. However how about comments in general on the concept of flight, lift, and tired butterflies, the real point of my post without the Arctic addition? My comments to your kind remarks follow your text. En un mensaje con fecha 08/06/2002 2:00:49 PM Central Daylight Time, fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu escribe: > > > but it is also true that as you get further north, air pressures are > > somewhat lower at the same altitude. By Alaska this certainly ought > > to be noticable. > > Well, not very. The pressure difference due to the thinner atmosphere at > high latitudes is a millibar or so, or around 1 per mil (= 0.1%)--and > that applies for the same elevation _and the same temperature_, and also > the same conditions regarding cyclones and anticyclones. Based on your feedback, I'll bag the sub-arctic areas from my original thinking, but that does not change the [theory?] significantly for temperate latitudes. Please do keep in mind, that I mentioned two factors- total air pressure (physics) and oxygen availability (physiological). Perhaps the extra pressure you mention is caused by water vapor, and though I don't mean to debate your local weather statistics. > The North Slope lies at low elevations--the Arctic Coastal Plain > is essentially at sea level. Furthermore, during clear summer weather the > Slope often lies within the Polar High. Finally, air temperatures are > cooler than in similar elevations at lower latitudes. The result is that > atmospheric pressures are normally _higher_ than at lower latitudes at > the same date. OK, that a lot of water is available to add to the partial pressure of the atmosphere is more likely here, raising your area pressures. I do want to comment that my initial observations should have been obviously prefaced, "At constant temperature..." so to remove this variable. At colder temperatures butterflies here in Mexico frequently don't motivate to fly either, they will hit the ground and hide, and it has less to do with pressure than with physiological temperature. By the way, note that a few years ago commercial airliners were > > unable to land at Fairbanks because a Siberian air mass had moved in, with > no temperature inversion at all, and ground temperatures around -55F. The > result was that pressure was so high that the planes' altimeters were > reading off scale. Temperature wins as against the thinner atmosphere! > According to the local Weather Bureau people, Alaska is one of the few > places in the US where atmospheric pressure often exceeds 31 inches. OK, I am and was definitely a believer that temperature wins against a thinner atmosphere! I wasn't trying to explain the lift nor flight of butterflies at -55F extreme, I am sure you know, in case any alien species were on the wing. I was more interested in 6,000-12,000 feet at +65 F. And perhaps that temp. is impossible in Alaska. As an aside, the trivia of the insufficient altimeter design you described is quite interesting, though I suppose could be deadly serious. While we are on interesting trivia, 1 millibar pressure difference you mention at higher latitudes...(at just 0.1% per your post, how can I reconcile that with the commonly stated "fact" that if Everest were at the same height as McKinley-Denali it would have an oxygen/atmospheric? pressure equivalent of 3,000 feet higher than present and be beyond the human ability to climb without supplemental oxygen? That is a 10% difference, 100 times greater than the insignificant amount you mentioned, or is my logic wrong? In my opinion, the tundra-hiding behavior of arctic butterflies> > has nothing to do with atmospheric pressure--and everything to do with > the obvious fact that there's nowhere else to hide. :-) Well, thanks. I understand and agree with the rest of you post, but I would definitely subject this last humorous statement to a little more vigor. As far as I know, it is still greatly a puzzle as to how a butterfly manages to fly regarding its coordination of energy, wing, muscular and aerodynamic movements. The choice of hiding in the undergrowth vs. flying to safety seems to me a lot more interesting and worthy of study to understand the limits of flight. I don't buy the 'obvious fact' you propose, at all, that there is _no where_ else to hide. On the contrary, I have been in many very barren warm habitats except for easy hiding turf, were butterflies almost invariably choose flight to hide. Except when I hit 6,000 feet or more, here in Mexican latitudes, and the hiding starts. I have never chased a Dainty Sulphur (_Nathalis iole_) below 3000 feet on a warm day and had it burrow. But at 6,000 feet this has happened on a warm day. We also had Guy's example from Turkish Tauruses (latitude N. 37.5-38.5 degrees) of hiding. The obvious fact I would counter with is, butterflies that have to exert themselves to the point of diminished flight response, at some point will have better success at burrowing, when being pursued by enthusiastic Lepsters, if that opportunity to burrow exists, right?:) Further study of these types of limitations observed by many of us seem quite promising to unravel the butterly flight dynamics (physiology & physics), wouldn't you agree. Clearly experiments at constant pressure varying pressure and oxygen partial pressure, and compressible gas partial pressure now that you mention it sound like a real fun study. Perhaps swapping habitats of butterfly individuals for species who extend the range of both habitats and measuring resulting hiding frequency vs. 'controls' is worth a thesis, along will some measurements of insect metabolism and wing deformation. Of course, in light of what you mention, holding pressure constant and varying temperature will give a lot more data points, but temperature affects might require more of an understanding of physiology to deconvolute the data. I mention all the above as I find it quite interesting that I claim to be a Lepidopterist, and honestly can't easily name the first reason as to how our bugs manage to fly. [And I don't mean, "flap their wings". I tried that and it doesn't work!] Quite a big hole there, in my opinion since flight is such an interesting subject certral to Leps. Best butterflying...Doug Dawn Monterrey, Mexico > Ken Philip > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020806/9a02a51c/attachment.html From jmmaes at ibw.com.ni Tue Aug 6 23:38:55 2002 From: jmmaes at ibw.com.ni (Jean Michel Maes) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 21:38:55 -0600 Subject: Butterfly Trip to Nicaragua Message-ID: <012c01c23dcc$46e91ba0$0100007f@museoent> Please answer to John Masters at E-mail: John at ButterflyTrips.com There are still 4 seats for a field trip to Nicaragua. Goal : watching and collecting butterflies. Schedule : Day 1. Thursday November 7. Arrival to Managua Travel and arrival day, flights from US to Managua International Airport. Greeting at the Airport and transfer to the Best Western Las Mercedes Hotel, Managua. Night of lodging at the hotel. Day 2. Friday November 8. Late arrival day and visit to Mombacho Volcano (Cloudforest) (B/L/D) Breakfast at hotel. For those unable to make connections to arrive yesterday, pick up at airport after overnight flight. Visit to the Volcano Mombacho. All day and evening to collect butterflies and moths or to photograph in the cloud forest. There is a beautiful overview of Lake Nicaragua from here. Lunch and Dinner provided. Lodging in simple accommodations at Volcano Mombacho. Day 3. Saturday November 9. Full day at the Mombacho Volcano Cloud Forest (B/L/D) Day and night butterfly collecting or photography. All meals provided. 2nd night lodging in simple accommodations here. Day 4. Sunday November 10. Transfer day to Solentiname (Tropical Dry Forest) (B/L/D) After breakfast at Mombacho, ground, flight and boat transfer to the Archipelago Solentiname in Lake Nicaragua. Afternoon for butterfly collecting or to explore Mancarron Island. Evening free or for moth collecting. (Moth collecting has never been done here and the prospects are outstanding, electricity is available for black lights). Lunch, dinner and overnight lodging in private rooms at the Mancarron-Solentiname Hotel. Day 5. Monday November 11. Full day at Solentiname (Tropical Dry Forest) (B/L/D) Day and night for entomological or photographic pursuits. Opportunity to visit the native village "El Refugio" with the possibility or purchase or barter for some very nice art or handicrafts. Breakfast, lunch, dinner and overnight at the Mancarron-Solentiname Hotel. Day 6. Tuesday November 12. Los Guatuzos Wildlife Reserve (Tropical Rain Forest) (B/L/D) Early in the morning and right after breakfast, we leave by boat to the Wildlife Reserve Los Guatuzos. Los Guatuzos is the only internationally registered tropical wetland area in Nicaragua (humid forest). Lots of opportunities to see wildlife on trip in. Monkeys and sloths plus a myriad of birds. Collection of butterflies or other insects during the remainder of the day and moths at night. The insects of Los Guatuzos have been extensively studied and documented. This is a very good area for butterflies. Giant Owl Butterflies, genus Caligo are especially abundant here and mostly active at dusk and dawn. There is also a butterfly breeding facility here. We will have special permission of the Nicaraguan government to collect, study and photograph the fauna and flora here. Overnight lodging in simple accommodation at the investigation center of the "Friends of the Earth", in the Los Guatuzos Reserve. Day 7. Wednesday November 13. Los Guatuzos Wildlife Reserve (Tropical Rain Forest) (B/L/D). All day, evening and night for continuing the activities and studies of yesterday. Breakfast, lunch and dinner provided and overnight once again at the investigation center of the "Friends of the Earth." Day 8. Thursday November 14. Transfer to Managua and City Tour. (B/L/D) After an early breakfast at Los Guatuzos, boat, flight and ground transfers to Managua. It is necessary to leave early before the water on Lake Nicaragua gets too rough. Check in to the Best Western Las Mercedes Hotel and the opportunity in the afternoon to take a Managua City Tour or to visit some special pottery factories. The hand made pottery in Nicaragua is very exquisite and special as well as being quite affordable. Or, you can spend the afternoon at leisure at the hotel with the opportunity to collect in the immediate vicinity. A farewell dinner at an old coffee plantation on a hill overlooking Managua Overnight lodging at the Best Western Las Mercedes Hotel. Day 9. Friday November 15. Departure Day. (B/-/-) Breakfast at the hotel and then transfer from the hotel to the International Airport. Flight back home to the United States. (Unless you are taking the optional extension to Selva Negra.) Optional Extension Tour Day 9. Friday November 15. Managua to Matagalpa Cloud Forest. (B/L/D) After breakfast at the Best Western Hotel, transfer with air-conditioned minivan to the Selva Negra Hotel in Matagalpa to the north of Managua. Afternoon, evening and night for entomological collecting or photography. Lunch, dinner and nights lodging at the Selva Negra Hotel. Day 10. Saturday November 16. Matagalpa Cloud Forest (B/L/D) All day to collect butterflies, or other insects, in the surrounding cloud forest region. Evening and night at the Selva Negra Hotel where black lighting for moths can be quite exceptional. Meals and lodging at the Selva Negra Hotel. Day 11. Sunday November 17. Matagalpa back to Managua (B/L/D) The full morning and early afternoon to continue activities and studies in the cloud forests around Selva Negra. Breakfast and lunch at Selva Negra and in the afternoon ride back to Managua in an air-conditioned minivan. Dinner and night of lodging at Managua at the Best Western Las Mercedes. Day 12. Monday November 18. Departure Day. (B/-/-) Breakfast at the hotel and then transfer to the International Airport. Flight home to the United States. Travel Quest/Butterfly Trips 26503 Hillsfall Court Newhall, CA 91321 E-mail: John at ButterflyTrips.com Phone: 661-251-2811 Fax: 661-251-1840 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020806/31faadb5/attachment.html From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Wed Aug 7 05:18:40 2002 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 01:18:40 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Hiding in the tundra...[theory?] Message-ID: > Perhaps the extra pressure you mention is caused by water vapor I doubt that water vapor has anything to do with it. Otherwise the world's oceans would be covered with high-pressure air masses--rather than breeding hurricanes... > I was more interested in 6,000-12,000 feet at +65 F. Here's a quote from Mani's book: 'Ecology and Biogeography of High Altitude Insects': "In the case of insects, however, the increasing oxygen deficiency of the air at high elevations does not seem to have any appreciable direct effect. Most insects are know to be extraordinarily resistant to not only extremely low atmospheric pressure, but also to rapid alternations of low and high atmospheric pressure." "Lutz exposed millipedes, _Drosophila_, beetles, butterflies and bees to low atmospheric pressure in the neighborhood of 1/10000 mm Hg for 90 se- conds without visible harm." "Such experimental investigations do, however, emphasize the fact that insects are not likely to be directly influenced, to any significant effect, by the reduced atmospheric pressure at high altiutudes in the same way as Vertebrata are affected." Insects in these tests seemed to function fine up to elevations of over 17,000 meters--more than twice the height of Mt. Everest. Note that some species of _Parnassius_ live at 6000 meters elevation in the Himalaya. > how can I reconcile that with the commonly stated "fact" that if Everest > were at the same height as McKinley-Denali it would have an oxygen/atmos- > pheric? pressure equivalent of 3,000 feet higher than present and be > beyond the human ability to climb without supplemental oxygen? You presumbly mean 'at the same latitude' rather than 'at the same height'. I got my figure of 1 millibar from the local Weather Bureau office--but the difference at sea level is certainly not 10%! However, note that the gravitational force at a given elevation is greater as you move towards the poles--and that will decrease the scale height of the atmosphere. A smaller scale height means the pressure falls off more rapidly with altitude. Now, as regards 'burrowing' behavior. I was referring to the way arctic butterflies will burrow into the tundra (and vanish) when they are under one's net. Same thing for scree. When they are being pursued, however, they will normally escape by flight. Oddly, it was only a couple of weeks ago that I observed a textbook case of escaping pursuit by abruptly drop- ping into low vegetation--and this was a _Speyeria zerene_ in Haines, Alaska, in coastal rain forest habitat. This was clearly a predator-eluding strategy: the drop was very abrupt just after the butterfly had changed direction--so that one's eye was led to look past the spot where it dropped. The same butterfly did this 4 times in row before it finally took off into the forest. As regards butterfly flight, I believe the mechanisms involved are fairly well known now. They are rather complex--but no violations of physics are involved. The old claim that "science has proven that the bumblebee can't fly. The bumblebee, being ignorant of this fact, goes on flying." is based on a faulty model of insect flight, which assumed the wings are rigid. They aren't. It is quite possible that butterflies could chnage their predator- escape strategies at high altitudes. But I doubt that lack of oxygen or low air pressure is the main factor. After all, the same factors would influence their non-arthropod predators even more severely. I can't run down _Colias nastes_ at sea level--I wouldn't even _think_ of trying to run them down at 10,000 feet! Ken Philip ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From leps at wahlberg.to Wed Aug 7 05:18:20 2002 From: leps at wahlberg.to (Niklas Wahlberg) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 02:18:20 -0700 Subject: Nymphalidae species list up Message-ID: <10ad01c23df3$5f491ed0$68cb010a@mail2world.com> Hi all, For those interested in species lists, I have finally parsed together a "complete" species list for the butterfly family Nymphalidae. You can find the list at http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/wahlberg/Nymphalidae/Classification2.h tm The first page is a list of subfamilies, tribes, subtribes and genera of Nymphalidae. The subfamily classification is my own, based on my and others molecular results (mainly unpublished stuff). The other levels have mainly been taken from Markku Savela's pages (linked to from my pages). From each tribe (or subfamily if there are no tribes) there is a link to a species list for that taxa. The species lists are for the most part parsed from Markku Savela's massive pages and the greater part of the credit for the list goes to him (THANK YOU MARKKU!). My pages make the information a bit more accessible, but Markku's pages still has a lot more info than mine. In total I have parsed about 15500 records, of which 544 are marked as valid genus names, 537 as genus synonyms, 5222 as valid species names, 6413 as valid subspecies names, 2690 as species synonyms of various kinds. The list is by no means complete or up to date!! It requires a lot of work still, so much that one person can't do it in a lifetime. It represents a start and the current state of my species level database for Nymphalidae. If anybody would like to help, please send me an e-mail! If somebody is revising a species group/genus/subtribe/tribe etc, I would be very grateful for your advice on that group. I will be updating the list periodically. It's not a searchable database, but you can use your browser's search function (Search in this page... or Find in this page...) to look for a particular genus name or species name. I hope that eventually this will be the most comprehensive list of names for Nymphalidae. Enjoy! Cheers, Niklas (note: I use this e-mail address for discussion groups) Niklas Wahlberg Department of Zoology Stockholm University S-106 91 Stockholm Sweden http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/wahlberg/ _______________________________________________________________ Be Unique! Get your personalized email address at www.NamePlanet.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020807/c3d55d0f/attachment.html From robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us Wed Aug 7 10:40:10 2002 From: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us (Robert Dana) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:40:10 -0500 Subject: Fwd: moth identity question Message-ID: Maybe someone on this list can help? It's an arctiid, looks like a Haploa, but I don't know the western spp. ************************************************************* Robert Dana, Ph.D. MN DNR Natural Heritage and Nongame Research Program 500 Lafayette Rd, Box 25 St. Paul, MN 55155 651 297-2367 Email: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us ************************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: James Henderson Subject: moth identity question Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 19:33:56 -0600 Size: 3087 Url: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020807/4e12bf6d/attachment.mht From MexicoDoug at aol.com Wed Aug 7 15:48:32 2002 From: MexicoDoug at aol.com (MexicoDoug at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 15:48:32 EDT Subject: 'Losing breath' is quicker at Alaska elevations Message-ID: <78.2acf79ba.2a82d390@aol.com> Ken, thanks again for the comments. I want to reply specifically to your comments that the difference of air pressure is trivial in Alaska vs. say, the US Rockies. Indeed, the "scale height" of the atmosphere comes into play and is significant for Lepsters. I will reply to some interesting points you make separately which are relevant to my questions, but as we went into an aside on "Whether Alaskan mountains are or aren't really more challenging" from the air pressure point of view, I am separating this part of the post. You chose to comment related to sea level, whereas my original post was looking at elevations for mountain lepping leading to tired Lepsters and supposedly tired Leps. I could find no information on the web comparing Alaskan pressures vs., say the Rocky Mountains at similar altitudes as in Mark's original post. So I used the atmospheric pressure equation at Mt. McKinley-Denali assuming there is a 3000 foot perceived difference vs. Everest at peak altitude as presented commented on PBS's NOVA. The results are: * A Lepidopterist certainly would tire more quickly at an equivalent altitude and temperature in Alaska, especially when you start getting above 5,438 feet (the equivalent at Tampa's latitude of 6,000 feet re: pressure and Oxygen availability). * The pressure does, in fact, drop off nearly 10% more quickly. * Assuming the "atmospheric scale height" (where 36.8% [1/e] of the mass of the atmosphere lies below) of 7,400 meters at Everest (latitude of Florida and S. Texas) , that gives a scale height of only 6,707 meters at McKinley-Denali - and Fairbanks latitude would be even lesser as it is somewhat further north. * What this means practically, for example, is that a Lepidopterist at 6330 feet in Alaska gets the same air pressure and thus I assume, oxygen level, as one at 6,984 feet at Tampa, Florida's latitude. * Alternately, the pressure _difference_ at Fairbank's elevation of only 440 feet, is still 9.4%, or effectively 40 to 45 feet different (higher) from the 'correct' equivalent pressure, which would be experienced by someone at Tampa's latitude, but 40 - 45 feet lower. Due to the small elevation of Fairbanks, it doesn't impact human physiology much - until he goes into the mountains. This is 1.85 millibars, and not incredibly different from the weather service 1 millibar you mentioned, which makes me believe I haven't obviously erred in the assumptions and calculations. * Can we agree, then, that at the 6,000 - 12,000 feet range the influence is effectively the same at 5,438 - 10,876 at Tampa's latitude, and that the effect is significant on the Lepster predator, at least? (All assuming the same temperature, if that is possible at the upper end of the range.) These are basically the best Lepping days, right? * And when you say 10,000 feet in Alaska, that has the pressure & oxygen of 11,033 feet at Tampa's latitude, not a fun altitude to be chasing that _nastes_.... The "equivalency" calculations I made follow from which all conclusions were drawn: H = Scale Height of Atmosphere fraction H(AK) meters feet H (EV) meters feet delta % 0.750 6707 1,929 6,330 7400 2,129 6,984 654 9.4% 0.500 6707 4,649 15,252 7400 5,129 16,828 1,576 9.4% 0.250 6707 9,298 30,505 7400 10,259 33,657 3,152 9.4% 0.100 6707 15,443 50,667 7400 17,039 55,903 5,235 9.4% 0.267 6707 8,850 29,035 7400 9,764 32,036 3,000 9.4% 0.980 6707 134 440 7400 148 485 45 9.4% 0.982 6707 122 399 7400 134 440 41 9.4% The fraction refers to the pressure as a fraction of the pressure at sea level. AK is Alaska; EV is Everest. The meters and feet is the elevation above sea level giving the same pressure at either location. delta the additional perceived subtracted elevation in feet which is equavalent in Alaska. 28 degrees N Tampa FL USA 28 degrees N Corpus Christi TX USA 28 degrees N Mt. Everest, Nepal 25 degrees N Monterrey, Mexico 25 degrees N Miami Zoo, FL, USA 64.5 degrees N Fairbanks, AK USA 64.2 degrees N Nuuk, Greenland 63 degrees N Mt.McKinley-Denali, AK, USA In addition, I would like to point out that the incredibly high pressures in Alaska are not really applicable to this discussion as far as warm day mountain Lepping, for the following reasons: 1- They are not corrected for temperature, and I have presupposed that all is at constant temperature - i.e., a warm Lepping day in the mountains (if such a thing happens in Alaska). 2.- They are corrected for altitude. Thus, the famous cold snap you described in an earlier post apparently led to Northway, AK, purportedly recording the second or third highest pressures ever measured by human instruments actually recorded a pressure much lower than one standard atmospheric pressure (98.5%), or 29.46 inches of mercury, at probably -75 F degrees at a weather station altitude of 1,713 feet, not the 31.85 inches reported for the 'record'. Finally, regarding the water adding pressure to the air, I would say indeed it does, but along the lines you have mentioned I have to agree it will be insignificant (unless giving the extra push to make another Alaskan "record"). I convinced myself of that by supposing the waters add a maximum of one inch deep of water, a heavy rainfall. Sounds reasonable to me, anyway. One inch high of water weighs only 16.4 grams over a square inch of area, or .036 pounds. Considering one standard atmospheric pressure unit is 14.7 pounds per square inch, the water only adds 2.5 millibars! A one hundred mile column of air is a lot heavier than I assumed... Best...Doug Dawn Monterrey, Mexico PS per Newton's Universal Gravitational Law, the gravitational force doesn't depend on latitude, I don't think, I guess you mean the force counteracting gravity due to earth's spin is smallest, which is why Alaskan's may not really be as massive as the bathroom scale implies. fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu escribe: You presumbly mean 'at the same latitude' rather than 'at the same height'. I got my figure of 1 millibar from the local Weather Bureau office--but the difference at sea level is certainly not 10%! However, note that the gravitational force at a given elevation is greater as you move towards the poles--and that will decrease the scale height of the atmosphere. A smaller scale height means the pressure falls off more rapidly with altitude. > > how can I reconcile that with the commonly stated "fact" that if Everest > > were at the same height as McKinley-Denali it would have an oxygen/atmos- > > pheric? pressure equivalent of 3,000 feet higher than present and be > > beyond the human ability to climb without supplemental oxygen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020807/0be2b6f5/attachment.html From agrkovich at tmpeng.com Wed Aug 7 17:41:57 2002 From: agrkovich at tmpeng.com (Grkovich, Alex) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:41:57 -0400 Subject: [leps-talk] Rocky Mountain High - Part 3 Message-ID: Mark, Sorry you apparently missed the White Veined Arctic (O. taygete) at Cottonwood Pass. It should have been there around the 22nd of July (I missed it also in July 1999 but on account of bad weather). Another very good place is Mosquito Pass; keep that in your memory bank for the future. I too have had the Alpine stuff disappear into the grass below my net. I have also lost many prospective specimens to a sudden cloudy condition, in which they will literally dive and disappear into the grass and vegetation on a dime once the sun is hidden. I have also witnessed Boloria frigga, for example, make a rapid bee-line into nearby woods surrounding the willow-bog habitat as soon as the sun was hidden. On a dime, and it is impossible to follow the specimen. I would also estimate that the temperature will drop 15 degrees in a few seconds. And when you're all wet from falling into the bog while chasing one, you really feel it (the water tends to be anywhere from 6 to 18 inches deep in one of these frigga bogs). But this (disappearing into vegetation) does not only happen on a mountaintop. Some of the Satyrids, especially, seem notorious for this type of crafty behavior even in temperate latitudes. The Little Wood Satyr(s?), after being trapped by my net, are quite adept at just crawling down into the grassy habitat which they bounce and patrol over. They simply sink fortress and further until you no longer can find them. By the time you do pull and maneuver the specimen out, its wings are all torn and damaged. I have also had Wood Nymphs and Ringlets doing the same thing. Last summer a Hobomok Skipper did this to me along the Streaked Mountain trail in Oxford Co., Maine only this was for him a bad move: A group of ants were waiting for him; a few stings later, I had the specimen away from the ants and safe in a stamp envelope. On Sunday, my wife Ljiljana and I hiked up Mt. Snow in southern Vermont (3,550 feet). The collecting was progressively better as we went further up the mountainside and encountered more lushy vegetation. We took a pair of Black (?) Swallowtails, male and female, both of which have the black spot inside the orange spot/patch at the HW anal angle basically on the wing margin (?). Other species encountered were Great Spangled, Aphrodite, and Atlantis Fritillaries, Silver Bordered Fritillaries (extremely abundant), Common and Orange Sulphurs, Common Wood Nymphs (wide, yellow FW patches, rather surprisingly), Peck's Skippers, Dun Skippers etc. No White Admirals were seen, nor were any Tiger Swallowtails seen along the mountainside, although we did observe a male (which species?) nectaring on orange butterfly weed along Rt. 100 near Dover, VT (south of the mountain). There are beeches along the trails from about 2200 to 3000 feet, but no Early Hairstreaks were seen; I unfortunately did not bring any "bait". A couple of points about the Speyeria: The Great Spangled Fritillaries (S. cybele) appear to be subspecies novascotiae (or at least certainly approach it): they are NOT nominal cybele. I have been finding novascotiae-like cybele in northern or montane areas of NH, VT and western Maine. It certainly appears that this northeastern taxa extends well further westward than is described in the e guides. The S. atlantis which I collected (fresh) has a very dark purplish brown disk on the HW below; a reddish brown disk is more common in the northeast. I also have been collecting Boloria selene from all over New England in order to ascertain where the boundary occurs between subspecies (southern) myrina and (northern) atrocostalis. Certainly, material from northern Coos Co., NH (and of course, from Quebec) is atrocostalis. These tend to be very dark above (actually resembling eunomia) and with a deep and dark brown ground color below- very beautiful, really. Further south, it appears that a wide blend zone occurs between the two. Aphrodite appears to be a bit rare this summer; I have seen very few during the several trips which I have already made to the Canadian Zone areas of New England. Populations in general, while having recovered somewhat from the cold/wet spring, are still rather poor. I am planning another trip to Mt. Washington on Sunday; the target of course is Boloria titania montina. I missed Oeneis melissa semidea when I went in July (45 F, 60 mile winds in the Alpine Zone). Also, the northern Polygonias etc. will soon appear in extreme northern NH. Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Walker [SMTP:mwalker at gensym.com] > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 8:21 PM > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu; 'lepstalk'; naturepotpourri at yahoogroups.com; > SoWestLep at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [leps-talk] Rocky Mountain High - Part 3 > > On Monday, July 22, my family and I ventured northeast of Gunnison, > Colorado > to drive over the spectacular Cottonwood Pass - elevation, 12,136 ft. The > road surface turns quickly into dirt - but it is well grated and makes for > easy driving. This is one of the biggest differences between the Rocky > Mountains and the High Sierra Nevada Mountains I've enjoyed for a lifetime > in California. In Colorado they've grated jeep trails to many of the > highest elevations. In the Sierra's, there are only a few roads that > penetrate the highest elevations - and these are principally limited to > low > mountain passes. I suspect that one of the major reasons for this was the > mining boom that occurred in much of Colorado during the last part of the > 19th century. Precious stones and minerals have a way of convincing > people > to build roads where they would otherwise be content with primitive > walking > trails. > > We arrived at the pass at 10:30 a.m., and found the barren peaks > highlighted > with much sunlight. The temperature, which had been well into the 90's > since leaving southern California, was now dipping below 60 degrees F. > There was also a good strong wind blowing. Nevertheless, we decided to > hop > out and search a few of the high mountain meadows for butterflies. We > found > the meadows damp and full of flowers, and as we walked softly along we > began > seeing our first Colias meadii (Mead's Sulphur) zipping out from below the > arctic meadow tufts. This butterfly reminded me of the sierran Colias > behrii, both incredibly green below and having the tendancy to disappear > after erratically alighting in the meadow grass. Unlike Behr's, however, > Mead's Sulphur has a stunning orange dorsal color. They are so orange, in > fact, that it is easy to mistake them for Speyeria or Boloria upon first > sighting. These sulphurs, along with many of the other species we would > find, would tend to fly great distances after being spooked from their > resting spots. This, coupled with the steep, uneven terrain and general > lack of oxygen made it particularly difficult to pursue them en chase. We > (my son was the only one who was willing to venture with me into the > alpine > wilderness) had less than a 10% success rate. We coined a new name - the > Misty Mountain Flop - for the resulting acrobatics. Every now and then > something totally new would emerge from the tundra flora and we would find > ourselves in an accelerating downhill sprint - only to end with empty net > and suffering from severe hyperventilation. It can be particularly hard > to > suck air at 12,000 ft. > > Another interesting phenomenon occurs in this habitat. Arctic Lepidoptera > seem to be well equipped for falling at a whim and disappearing into the > darkest depths of the arctic meadow landscape. I managed to trap one > freshly emerged Boloria eunomia (Bog Fritillary) against it's perch with > my > net, only to discover that the insect had completely disappeared. Even > after much combing of the stunted undergrowth, I still was unable to > locate > this butterfly. Amazing. While butterflies from other habitats are quick > to leap up and out of the way, these bugs seem to know that their best > chances of escape are to fall limp and to fall down. It's effective, > that's > for sure. It leaves the amateur butterfly hunter scratching its head. I > spent a lot of time scratching. > > After only an hour or so, the weather maker that is the Continental Divide > reared it's spectacular head once again. In just a matter of minutes, the > whole area was consumed by a thunderhead which grew before our very eyes. > And in ten minutes, the hail began. Good sized hailstones (on the order > of > 5 mm in diameter) rained down upon us, stinging our flesh. We made a mad > dash for the vehicle, and then sat and admired the animated storm from > within the confines of our rental vehicle. > > That would be the end of our butterflying for the day. One hour at 12,000 > ft. and then it was over. It seemed a shame to drive so far for just an > hour. But then we realized that the bugs and habitat that we had just > experienced, as well as the calisthenics they demanded, made it all easily > worthwhile. > > Our list: > > Parnassius smintheus (Rocky Mountain Parnassian) > > Colias meadii (Mead's Sulphur) > Colias scudderi (Scudder's Sulphur) > > Lycaena nivalis (Nivalis Copper) > Plebejus saepiolus (Greenish Blue) > Plebejus icarioides (Boisduval's Blue) > Agriades glandon (Arctic Blue) > > Speyeria mormonia (Mormon Fritillary) > Boloria eunomia (Bog Fritillary) > Boloria chariclea (Arctic Fritillary) > Phyciodes pratensis (Field Crescentspot) > > Erebia epipsodea (Common Alpine) > Erebia callias (Colorado Alpine) > > Mark Walker > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Thank you for your cooperation. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnjjk1 at uaf.edu Wed Aug 7 18:59:32 2002 From: fnjjk1 at uaf.edu (James Kruse) Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 13:59:32 -0900 Subject: 'Losing breath' is quicker at Alaska elevations In-Reply-To: <78.2acf79ba.2a82d390@aol.com> Message-ID: on 8/7/02 10:48 AM, MexicoDoug at aol.com at MexicoDoug at aol.com wrote: * A Lepidopterist certainly would tire more quickly at an equivalent altitude and temperature in Alaska, especially when you start getting above 5,438 feet (the equivalent at Tampa's latitude of 6,000 feet re: pressure and Oxygen availability). Thanks guys, and I thought I was just out of shape! Jim James J. Kruse, Ph.D. Curator of Entomology University of Alaska Museum 907 Yukon Drive Fairbanks, AK, USA 99775-6960 tel 907.474.5579 fax 907.474.1987 http://www.uaf.edu/museum/ento -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020807/e38b69dc/attachment.html From MWalker at gensym.com Wed Aug 7 23:43:58 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:43:58 -0400 Subject: Another one bites the dust Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A665@hqmail.gensym.com> Well, as I've said before here - I consider listing organisms on Federally Endangered Species lists (or other such lists) a terrible conservation failure and not a success. This should be what we're fighting to avoid - not fighting to see happen. I think this is true irregardless of whether such an action will actually act to save or conserve a species (which I'll argue it isn't very effective at, either - but that's a different post). The Carson Wandering Skipper, a little butterfly from western Nevada whose habitat is amazingly scarce, has recently obtained emercency protected status AND interestingly some significant press coverage (see http://channels.attbusiness.net/index.cfm?fuseAction=viewNewsArticle &nav_id=33&category_name=National&article_id=1905f5916ecd49c7389f12bcf270464 d ). Anyway, I haven't heard much at all about why this decision is necessary - other than the obvious. I'd like to hear from anyone on either of these lists who can tell me what, if any, conservation efforts were considered and why none are expected to be successful. This could be a real interesting case from an evolutionary sense. Is this a relict from a receding ocean - and if so, is it basically doomed anyway? I've never looked for this skipper, though I've undoubtedly driven past it a hundred times. I'm saddened that it is so hopelessly limited. Anyway, I'll drink a toast to the little wanderer tonight. Mark Walker. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020807/4f9012bd/attachment.html From MWalker at gensym.com Thu Aug 8 00:10:34 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 00:10:34 -0400 Subject: Another one bites the dust - correct link Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A667@hqmail.gensym.com> Sorry - Charles Bordelon pointed out that my URL was mistyped. He also noted that I didn't include the scientific name (Pseudocopaeodes eunus obscurus). It's a ssp. that Austin and Emmel wrote about in "Systematics of Western North American Butterflies", page 503. Here's the correct link: http://channels.attbusiness.net/index.cfm?fuseAction=viewNewsArticle &nav_id=33&category_name=National&article_id=1905f5916ecd49c7389f12bcf270464 d Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020808/3a2e8d65/attachment.html From MWalker at gensym.com Thu Aug 8 00:16:26 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 00:16:26 -0400 Subject: Link - third try Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A668@hqmail.gensym.com> Sorry - some weird thing occurs when I transmit the URL - it gets a bunch of junk appended to it. If you're still interested, try navigating to the article from the home page: http://www.attbusiness.net/ By the time I get this right, the bug will have wandered off the page... Mark. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020808/c900f58d/attachment.html From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Thu Aug 8 00:31:29 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 00:31:29 -0400 Subject: Another one bites the dust - correct link References: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A667@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <005701c23e94$772e4c40$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> Mark - The link worked fine for me. I couldn't help but notice how professionally well done this the AP story was compared to the haphazard Appalachian Tiger article (?) done by USA Today. If USA Today would have taken this "new species" seriously I think there would have been an entirely different presentation. http://tils-ttr.org/news.html Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Walker" To: ; "'lepstalk'" Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 12:10 AM Subject: Another one bites the dust - correct link > Sorry - Charles Bordelon pointed out that my URL was mistyped. He also > noted that I didn't include the scientific name (Pseudocopaeodes eunus > obscurus). It's a ssp. that Austin and Emmel wrote about in "Systematics of > Western North American Butterflies", page 503. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Thu Aug 8 03:30:53 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 03:30:53 -0400 Subject: Rocky Mountain High - Part 4 Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A66C@hqmail.gensym.com> On Friday, July 26th, I was informed that I would have to stay in Colorado Springs for a few days longer. This was not on the original family plan, and I had to think fast as to what I would do. With minutes to spare, I decided to drive to Denver and try and get my wife and daughter on an airplane bound for San Diego. To do this, I had to leave my unlicensed son at the wheel of the rental car in the high profile loading/unloading zone. Of course, my business at the ticket counter ended up taking ten times longer than it needed to - and my son was forced to drive the car around the airport four or five times to avoid being accosted by armed security guards. This turned out to be great experience for him, as he really hasn't had to deal with airport traffic before. At any rate, it was pretty early on Friday when we found ourselves driving alone through Denver. Somehow we ended up driving up highway 285 and found ourselves smack dab in Rocky Mountains once again. Go figure. Well, no sense letting a good opportunity go to waste. Fortunately, we had a couple of nets handy. We knew the somewhat mild weather wouldn't last long, so we took the shortest route to the arctic zone. A dirt road out of Grant, CO led us to Guanella Pass, elevation 11,669 ft. The drive up to the pass was scenic, and included two stretches where Parnassian smintheus (Rocky Mountain Parnassian) could be found crossing the road in numbers. Believe it or not, this was a new bug for me on this trip. What a delight to find it common. Though smintheus flies in the High Sierra's back home, the only species I've ever found there has been P. clodius. By the way - if you haven't had the pleasure of seeing a Parnassian on the wing, it is truly an experience worth working for. Probably even more thrilling than seeing one fly for the first time is having one in your net for the first time. When you hear the almost plastic-like wings fluttering against your net bag, you KNOW you've got something different. The ssp. here is hermodur, and the female is particularly astonishing. Dark smokey grey, translucent, and with several really large red spots on the hindwing. After netting my first female, I flopped down in amazement and could find no words. Truly, I could have gone home that very instant without the need of swinging my net again. Well, that day, anyway. But I soon recovered, and headed even higher - in hopes of finding some Northwest Territory bug that's found itself stuck in between ice ages on a 14,000 ft. peak. On the top of the pass, the situation was not nearly as exciting as at Cottonwood Pass. This pass was drier and the meadows looked as though they were grazed - the grasses short and the wildflowers few. Still, I found one species to be very common indeed. Erebia callias (Colorado Alpine) was everywhere, flopping about from one resting spot to another. Colias meadii (Mead's Sulphur) was also present here, displaying it's by now familiar rest-and-zip behavior. As we ran about the highlands, the clouds began forming all around us and we knew our time at this altitude was short lived. We were graced by more sunshine down below, and spent another hour chasing Parnassians, Mormon Fritillaries, Juba Skippers (Hesperia juba), Greenish Blues (Plebejus saepiolus), Arctic Blues (Agriades glandon), and Purplish Coppers (Lycaena helloides). Scudder's Sulphur was also here, as were Boloria chariclea (is this what Howe refers to as B. titania helena?). I also saw a single Polygonia gracilis (Hoary Comma). To drive back to Colorado Springs, we decided to detour through Park County along Tarryall Creek (County Rd. 77) . Too bad the weather had gone bad, because this medium elevation area looked quite interesting. Christian slept while I pushed on, wondering what the weekend might have in store. Mark Walker -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020808/99c12709/attachment.html From MexicoDoug at aol.com Thu Aug 8 12:08:39 2002 From: MexicoDoug at aol.com (MexicoDoug at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:08:39 EDT Subject: Hiding in the tundra...[theory?] Message-ID: <1a4.66e0724.2a83f187@aol.com> fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philips) escribe: Ken, this is the second set of comments I wanted to make, concerning the effects of higher altitude on organisms, without needing to consider how atmospheric pressure and oxygen availability varies with latitude extremes. I might have titled it "Can a butterfly get tired? and "Can a butterfly get tired especially at high altitude?" and "Under what conditions?". Is there an answer to that? My responses follow yours: > I was more interested in 6,000-12,000 feet at +65 F. Here's a quote from Mani's book: 'Ecology and Biogeography of High Altitude Insects': -"In the case of insects, however, the increasing oxygen deficiency of the -air at high elevations does not seem to have any appreciable direct effect. -Most insects are know to be extraordinarily resistant to not only extremely -low atmospheric pressure, but also to rapid alternations of low and high -atmospheric pressure." -"Lutz exposed millipedes, _Drosophila_, beetles, butterflies and bees to -low atmospheric pressure in the neighborhood of 1/10000 mm Hg for 90 se- -conds without visible harm." I haven't had access to even a copy of Scott for over a year since I last moved, thanks for taking the time to look up a "hard" reference on high altitude on bugs. My interpretation of the text indicates that the authors were really after hardiness/resilence of the insect body, when compared to vertebrates. The source certainly indicates that insect bodies are able to withstand far more stress where vertebrate bodies might explode or at least sustain damage to vertebrates respiratory and other sensitive equilibrium determined metabolic systems. While it is easy to imagine insects packed inside skeletons handling environmental extremes better than organisms with internal skeletons (evolution didn't face us with getting stepped on or clamped in birds' bills) it is hard to see how that can extend to assuming insects at high altitude necesarily can fly with similar efficiency - at constant temperature - and relatively more efectively avoid Lepsters trying to chase them. I see no reason to think the ability to fly is comparable with the ability to survive stresses in hostile environments. Note, if temperature weren't constant, at constant pressure (altitude), a reasonable Lepping day, many species of Leps can no longer fly while we humans have no problem running around picking them up. This speaks of the limitations of their flight metabolism worse than we vertebrates have at this reasonable Lepping and nectaring ambient range. And certainly a millipedes and beetles are designed better to not get killed on impact at reasonable speeds when getting hit by cars, whereas butterflies are not, so while that is getting away from the authors stream of thinking on pressures, I think it is worth keeping in mind. -"Such experimental investigations do, however, emphasize the fact that -insects are not likely to be directly influenced, to any significant effect, -by the reduced atmospheric pressure at high altiutudes in the same way as -Vertebrata are affected." This seems to contradict what I just responded above, though I don't think it does, taking into consideration the authors' thinking. It is a gross generalization and I wouldn't read too much into it. That Vertebrates and insects are not affected in the "same way" is certainly not doubted, that most insects can handle more pressure stress than most vertebrates is not doubted. But walking and the respiratory support in humans, as a reference point, vs. flying and the supporting metabolism seem an order of magnitude different in effort. Certainly an insect can probably happily burrow under conditions we suffer frostbite, but can those insects with reasonable ranges (which are not necessarily Sherpa-optimized) fly unaffected? I would doubt that. They are not superbugs and while evolution may have given cockroaches certain conserved advantages after being around 50 times longer than humans, and 6 times longer than Leps, I wonder how long butterflies have had to optimize to stresses unique to low-pressure/oxygen conditions? -Insects in these tests seemed to function fine up to elevations of over -17,000 meters--more than twice the height of Mt. Everest. Note that some -species of _Parnassius_ live at 6000 meters elevation in the Himalaya. 17,700 meters (58,070 feet), twice Mt. Everest elevation? The pressure there is only 9.146% that at sea level. I seriously doubt any butterfly will "function fine", I.e., fly without a problem, at these elevations. What does "function fine" mean? I assume, succesfully breath at minimum activity. And maybe an ant can walk around almost fine since under other conditions it can carry several times it weight easily. The Parnassians at 6,000 meters (19,685 feet), presumibly flying, certainly present a challenge to understanding flight, and to the entire reasoning I have used, and possibly refute it, though I bet instead they probably present a wonderful opportunity to look for differences vs. other species which can't fly at these altitudes. For one, their wings are probably extremely rigid as I believe the deformation of wings common to flight and especially takeoffs of of less use, whearas gliding on perfect wings at maximum efficiency might be more important. It is interesting if they are white, as a darker color would act as a better Solar collector. Or perhaps those only fly on Sunny days when, on the contrary, they collect more heat than they need to counter ambient temperatures (seem to recall a reference somewhere, Scott?, where some Parnassians were seen flying in cool snowstorms). One thing I would bet, however, is that a Sherpa would be better at catching one of these bugs at 19,685 feet than I can photograph one at 4,000 feet in California. -Now, as regards 'burrowing' behavior. I was referring to the way -arctic butterflies will burrow into the tundra (and vanish) when they are -under one's net. Same thing for scree. When they are being pursued, however, -they will normally escape by flight. Oddly, it was only a couple of weeks -ago that I observed a textbook case of escaping pursuit by abruptly drop- -ping into low vegetation--and this was a _Speyeria zerene_ in Haines, -Alaska, in coastal rain forest habitat. This was clearly a predator-eluding -strategy: the drop was very abrupt just after the butterfly had changed -direction--so that one's eye was led to look past the spot where it -dropped. The same butterfly did this 4 times in row before it finally took -off into the forest. Nice set of observations! Were you the predator? Here there is no pressure-altitude effect, and it is first hand data, though you didn't mention whether it was 'warm' and 'Sunny' or not. So I assume you mean to support that flight limitations are not the factors to consider when a bug does the burrowing, or at least drop to the ground maneuver. It was a nice point you made in warning not to get carried away with any too much "catch all" explanations. But a preponderance of first hand Lepster evidence seems to suggest that this burrowing-playing 'possum behavior is more prevalent at higher altitudes, at least in the experience of the field Lepsters of the list. -As regards butterfly flight, I believe the mechanisms involved are -fairly well known now. They are rather complex--but no violations of -physics are involved. The old claim that "science has proven that the -bumblebee can't fly. The bumblebee, being ignorant of this fact, goes on -flying." is based on a faulty model of insect flight, which assumed the -wings are rigid. They aren't. Yes, I also mentioned basically the same comments regarding "deforming and snapping wings" to provide lift and flight in my original post, an I am certainly not trying to doubt a bumble-bee! On the contrary! You add, though, that the physics of the mechanisms of (at least bumble-bee?) flight are well understood. I would be indebted to you for any guidance on where to go for further information. Specifically to see if any work relating ambient pressure and lift are gleanable from these models. And I really doubt that respiration has been added to these physical models, so there may still be a lot of interesting new science to be done... -It is quite possible that butterflies could chnage their predator- -escape strategies at high altitudes. But I doubt that lack of oxygen or -low air pressure is the main factor. After all, the same factors would -influence their non-arthropod predators even more severely. I can't run -down _Colias nastes_ at sea level--I wouldn't even _think_ of trying to -run them down at 10,000 feet! -Ken Philip Well, I am pleased that you ever-so slightly restated your opinion here from "obvious fact of there being no where else to hide", to a more diplomatic "not a main factor". While the _Colias nastes_ may have us soundly whipped under the conditions you describe, I bet Mark would give it the ol' college try. I'll just mention that flying vs. walking around, or even running would seem not to be comparing apples to apples (due to the proportional consumption of flight), and whether the pursued or pursuor wins doesn't seem to be a given. Some of this answer might be hiding in the fact as to what percent of resting energy a butterfly needs for flight vs. a human needs to run. At both altitudes... I would think that like all living organisms butterflies will have limits probably defined by their habitats, and some butterflies might just get the shorter end of the stick vs. us. At least I would like to believe that on a hot day in the field when it is wishful thinking that a Lep will tire and pause long enough to smile for a photo before resuming to play non-stop tag with leaves and a enthusiastic photographer or collector who perpetually feels like he is "it". Best wishes...Douglas Dawn Monterrey, Mexico Elevation, 570 meters -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020808/abb24d0c/attachment.html From MWalker at gensym.com Thu Aug 8 18:23:06 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:23:06 -0400 Subject: Rocky Mountain High - Part 5 Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A671@hqmail.gensym.com> On Saturday, July 27, I slept in. As a result, I decided to head for someplace local to do some hunting. I was hoping to find Hypaurotis crysalus (Colorado Hairstreak), which is as spectacular a bug as we have in the U.S. - and I've only encountered it once in the Garden Canyon of Ft. Huachuca. With some help from my friends, I was directed towards the foothills below Cheyenne Mountain. I arrived fairly early - 9:30 a.m. - and the sun was just starting to warm things up. I walked through the oak woodland habitat, and was discouraged at the serious lack of water in the stream beds. Before long, however, I started seeing Pieris rapae (Cabbage White) nectaring on what turned out to be a plentiful nectar source. My next butterfly was a surprise - Lycaena arota (Tailed Copper) - a surprise only because I wasn't smart enough to expect it. It turned out to be very common - the males flitting about from perch to perch, while the females enjoyed sipping nectar for long periods of time. The coppers presumably ended up flying most of the day, since I found them here after 5:00 p.m. on the following day. By 10:30, things really started to heat up. At this lower altitude, the cool 70 degree F alpine afternoons I had been enjoying previously were transformed into a 95 degree dry sauna. I was hiking a lot, and climbing through a very parched and unshaded terrain - and hoping for a large thunderhead to move in and cool things off. I got my wish by noon, but I was more than finished chasing anything but a beverage by then. Another big surprise in this habitat was a mating pair of Satyrium titus (Coral Hairstreak). The female was big, beautiful, and had large orange patches on the dorsal side. Her pink coral ventral submarginal band was also stunning and large. The male looked tired and worn, and since I ne'r saw another individual, I suppose he was her permanent boy in bondage. Many female butterflies are bullys, I'm afraid. They're bigger and stronger, and no little lep guy stands a chance, I fear. Of course, you could always look at it another way - this little guy had something special, in spite of his ragged appearance. He was on a mission to be the sole propagator of El Paso County titus for 2003. A respectable goal, for sure. Sorry for the detour there. Many serious entomologists really hate it when I digress into a most inappropriate personification. Bugz is bugz, and they don't really have any such sexual deviations. It's more a sign of the twisted state of the observer, I've been told. O.K. - so forget it. My wife had only been gone for one day - no reason to go off the deep end. Besides - I had my son to take care of. Drooling and foaming is not an acceptable behavior for the father of a teenager. I'll work on it. I enjoyed many other bugs this day, including Ochlodes sylvanoides (Woodland Skipper), Piruna pirus (Russet Skipperling), an Erynnis that I'll tentatively call telemachus (Rocky Mountain Duskywing), Hemiargus isola (Reakirt's Blue), Papilio rutulus (Western Tiger Swallowtail), and my good friend Limenitis weidemeyerii (Weidemeyer's Admiral). Before calling it a day, I decided to hike up a little higher into a nice grove of smallish Quercus trees. I was still hoping to see a Colorado Hairstreak. Instead, what I found was Cercyonis - and two marvelous species at that. Both Cercyonis pegala (Common Wood Nymph) and the spectacular Cercyonis meadi (Mead's Wood Nymph) could be found flopping about under the sparse oak canopy. For some interesting reason, the Mead's were only found in one very small area, while the pegala could be found virtually anywhere throughout this habitat. There were never many in any particular location, but neither of these were seen at all in the area I searched first - so they were a pleasant surprise, for sure. I was back in the hotel by 1:00, and took a much needed rest. Colorado had already been very, very good to me. Mark Walker. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020808/5e0c5ce3/attachment.html From keps2 at flite-tours.com Thu Aug 8 21:27:12 2002 From: keps2 at flite-tours.com (Michael Klein) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:27:12 -0700 Subject: Another one bites the dust In-Reply-To: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A665@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: Mark What little I am aware of the politics of this (yes that?s what I said ?politics?), it will have something to do with water transfers to California as well as water quality. Seems sort of strange that someone can find this more subject to impacts than any other wildlife (plant or animal). The FWS shot down wandering skipper in San Diego County because of good numbers in north county populations but almost ignored south San Diego County populations practically being extirpated with no explanation as to why. Of course in this case it is most probably good that it is not protected so that we can figure out why there is such a dramatic difference in the County. The bad side to this is that no one seems to be willing to put money to it for the study!!! Go figure!! I can spend time studying this critter, unfortunately my consulting business keeps me too busy to find the time to prioritize it. You can only do so much work free before it effects paying personal bills. Hermes is taking most of my time. Most of which is free. Anyway, that is about all I know for Nevada. Michael Klein San Diego -----Original Message----- From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu]On Behalf Of Mark Walker Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:44 PM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu; 'lepstalk' Subject: Another one bites the dust Well, as I've said before here - I consider listing organisms on Federally Endangered Species lists (or other such lists) a terrible conservation failure and not a success. This should be what we're fighting to avoid - not fighting to see happen. I think this is true irregardless of whether such an action will actually act to save or conserve a species (which I'll argue it isn't very effective at, either - but that's a different post). The Carson Wandering Skipper, a little butterfly from western Nevada whose habitat is amazingly scarce, has recently obtained emercency protected status AND interestingly some significant press coverage (see http://channels.attbusiness.net/index.cfm?fuseAction=viewNewsArticle&nav_id= 33&category_name=National&article_id=1905f5916ecd49c7389f12bcf270464d ). Anyway, I haven't heard much at all about why this decision is necessary - other than the obvious. I'd like to hear from anyone on either of these lists who can tell me what, if any, conservation efforts were considered and why none are expected to be successful. This could be a real interesting case from an evolutionary sense. Is this a relict from a receding ocean - and if so, is it basically doomed anyway? I've never looked for this skipper, though I've undoubtedly driven past it a hundred times. I'm saddened that it is so hopelessly limited. Anyway, I'll drink a toast to the little wanderer tonight. Mark Walker. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020808/9ba2627c/attachment.html From alexander.pernstich at univie.ac.at Fri Aug 9 06:39:28 2002 From: alexander.pernstich at univie.ac.at (Alexander Pernstich) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:39:28 +0200 Subject: Heliconius melpomene food source Message-ID: <3d539b9d$0$19350$3b214f66@news.univie.ac.at> Hallo Newsgroup! We are working about the feeding-behaviour of Heliconius melpomene and urgently need help for oure butterflies. We know the main food source of the catapillars of Heliconius in Costa Rica - Passiflora menisperifolia and P. oerstedii. But these two species of Passiflora are not available for us at the moment!!! My Question (Hope): Who knows an alternative food source for caterpillars of Heliconius melpomene?? Thanks in advance. With best regards, Alex ******* Alexander Pernstich Institute for Zoology University of Vienna Austria ******* ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 9 09:14:12 2002 From: neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 14:14:12 +0100 Subject: Heliconius melpomene food source In-Reply-To: <3d539b9d$0$19350$3b214f66@news.univie.ac.at> References: <3d539b9d$0$19350$3b214f66@news.univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <02080914141201.08594@nwjones.demon.co.uk> On Friday 09 August 2002 11:39 am, Alexander Pernstich wrote: > Hallo Newsgroup! > We are working about the feeding-behaviour of Heliconius melpomene and > urgently need help for oure butterflies. > > We know the main food source of the catapillars of Heliconius in Costa > Rica - Passiflora menisperifolia and P. oerstedii. > > But these two species of Passiflora are not available for us at the > moment!!! > > My Question (Hope): > > Who knows an alternative food source for caterpillars of Heliconius > melpomene?? > > Thanks in advance. > > With best regards, > Alex I never tried H. melpomene but I have reared other heleconids on P. caerulea which is just about hardy here in the UK. Looking though my books on tropical lepidoptera rearing, whenever melpomene is mentioned they usually just say Passiflora. I presume therefore that it is not that specialised in its choice of foodplant and that most species will do. P. caerulea may be a good choice since it is the most readily available species here. I think one of my books goes into more detail, but I can't put my hand on it. I must have put it in the wrong place in my bookshelves. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mazzeip at tin.it Fri Aug 9 10:59:14 2002 From: mazzeip at tin.it (Paolo Mazzei) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 15:59:14 +0100 Subject: R: Heliconius melpomene food source In-Reply-To: <02080914141201.08594@nwjones.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <000801c23fb5$54059e40$2900000a@mazzeip> I have reared Heliconius melpomene on Passiflora caerulea without any problem, as Neil Jones says it's not a specialised species. Paolo Mazzei mailto:mazzeip at tin.it Webmaster of: "Moths and Butterflies of Europe" http://www.leps.it/ "Amphibians and Reptiles of Europe" http://www.herp.it/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From keps2 at flite-tours.com Fri Aug 9 11:21:39 2002 From: keps2 at flite-tours.com (Michael Klein) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:21:39 -0700 Subject: [leps-talk] RE: Another one bites the dust In-Reply-To: <00dd01c23f46$6ba17840$f03c3b41@DESKTOP> Message-ID: Not at all Chuck. My main point is that listing or not listing usually has a political agenda behind it more than scientific. Michael Klein San Diego -----Original Message----- From: Charles Bordelon [mailto:legitintellexit at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 6:45 PM To: MWalker at gensym.com; leps-l at lists.yale.edu; 'lepstalk'; Michael Klein Subject: Re: [leps-talk] RE: Another one bites the dust Hey Mike and all. I didn't mean to diminutize the situation of eunus last night, not to mention hermes. I hope we all know the point I was trying to make. Hell, it was pretty damn elementary, huh? cb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Klein" To: ; ; "'lepstalk'" Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 8:27 PM Subject: [leps-talk] RE: Another one bites the dust Mark What little I am aware of the politics of this (yes that's what I said 'politics'), it will have something to do with water transfers to California as well as water quality. Seems sort of strange that someone can find this more subject to impacts than any other wildlife (plant or animal). The FWS shot down wandering skipper in San Diego County because of good numbers in north county populations but almost ignored south San Diego County populations practically being extirpated with no explanation as to why. Of course in this case it is most probably good that it is not protected so that we can figure out why there is such a dramatic difference in the County. The bad side to this is that no one seems to be willing to put money to it for the study!!! Go figure!! I can spend time studying this critter, unfortunately my consulting business keeps me too busy to find the time to prioritize it. You can only do so much work free before it effects paying personal bills. Hermes is taking most of my time. Most of which is free. Anyway, that is about all I know for Nevada. Michael Klein San Diego -----Original Message----- From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu]On Behalf Of Mark Walker Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:44 PM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu; 'lepstalk' Subject: Another one bites the dust Well, as I've said before here - I consider listing organisms on Federally Endangered Species lists (or other such lists) a terrible conservation failure and not a success. This should be what we're fighting to avoid - not fighting to see happen. I think this is true irregardless of whether such an action will actually act to save or conserve a species (which I'll argue it isn't very effective at, either - but that's a different post). The Carson Wandering Skipper, a little butterfly from western Nevada whose habitat is amazingly scarce, has recently obtained emercency protected status AND interestingly some significant press coverage (see http://channels.attbusiness.net/index.cfm?fuseAction=viewNewsArticle&nav_id= 33&category_name=National&article_id=1905f5916ecd49c7389f12bcf270464d ). Anyway, I haven't heard much at all about why this decision is necessary - other than the obvious. I'd like to hear from anyone on either of these lists who can tell me what, if any, conservation efforts were considered and why none are expected to be successful. This could be a real interesting case from an evolutionary sense. Is this a relict from a receding ocean - and if so, is it basically doomed anyway? I've never looked for this skipper, though I've undoubtedly driven past it a hundred times. I'm saddened that it is so hopelessly limited. Anyway, I'll drink a toast to the little wanderer tonight. Mark Walker. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/CCYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> TILS Motto: "We can not protect that which we do not know" (c) 1999 Subscribe: TILS-leps-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com Post message: TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com Archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TILS-leps-talk/messages Unsubscribe: TILS-leps-talk-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com For more information: http://www.tils-ttr.org Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From nigelventers at ntlworld.com Fri Aug 9 12:43:30 2002 From: nigelventers at ntlworld.com (Nigel Venters) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:43:30 +0100 Subject: Heliconius melpomene food source References: <000801c23fb5$54059e40$2900000a@mazzeip> Message-ID: <001301c23fc3$e78ee730$46700050@mrventer> Actually H. melpomene is a specialised species in it's choice of foodplant...it just happens to feed on P. caerulea as well as P. menisperifolia and P. oerstedii. Heliconids fall into separate groups when choosing foodplants. Some will take just about any Passiflora (But not H. melpomene!) ....some species will use a few different foodplants....and some species will (Which has always been a surprise to me!) seem to take only one species of Passiflora. How they and where they lay also alters by species....Heliconid adults will lay their eggs in a batch or singly...for example H. doris will lay a huge batch while H. melpomene lays eggs singly..... the position where they lay eggs on the plant also alters depending on species...D. juno for example will only lay It's eggs on old leaves near the base (A batch) where H. melpomene favours tendrils or new shoots. With H. melpomene you may like to consider collecting the eggs daily, especially if you don't have too much foodplant available as a many Heliconids that lay singly (like H. melpomene) look for places where there are very few or no eggs laid on the plant before they will lay an egg themselves...this over countless years has caused many Passiflora species to take advantage of this behaviour and evolve nodules or raised yellow spots on the leaves to discourage Heliconid females from laying on them. Hope this helps. Nigel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paolo Mazzei" To: "Leps-l" Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: R: Heliconius melpomene food source > I have reared Heliconius melpomene on Passiflora caerulea without any > problem, as Neil Jones says it's not a specialised species. > > Paolo Mazzei mailto:mazzeip at tin.it > Webmaster of: > "Moths and Butterflies of Europe" http://www.leps.it/ > "Amphibians and Reptiles of Europe" http://www.herp.it/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From xiwang at sprint.ca Fri Aug 9 22:34:03 2002 From: xiwang at sprint.ca (Xi Wang) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:34:03 -0500 Subject: Help with anise swallowtail pupa stage, please References: <20020809100148.29541.00003242@mb-mj.aol.com> Message-ID: <3D547B9B.60CA9E83@sprint.ca> Dixie, In my experience with Black Swallowtails (Papilio polyxenes asterius), eclosion usually takes place after roughly 15 days, but this may vary depending on temperature. Before it emerges, you will actually be able to see the butterfly within the chrysalis. You should be able to make out the wing outline, as well as pattern, and other basic anatomical features such as the abdomen, head, antennae..etc. At the point, eclosion within the next 24 hrs is pretty much guaranteed. If you observe the chyrsalis continually, you will actually be able to see the wings and abdomen detach from the inside of the chrysalis over time, eclosion usually follows with in a matter of hours. Peace, Xi Wang Rusty6356 wrote: > Could someone tell me about how long an anise swallowtail (Papilio zelicaon) > will remain in its chrysalis? And/or how to tell when it's about to emerge? > > This is my first try at raising a butterfly and has been fairly successful so > far, although the caterpillar turned out to be something of an escape artist > and had to be rescued from the dish drainer-- > > It started making its chrysalis yesterday, Aug. 8, at the top of a shaded > kitchen window, behind a set of mini-blinds, and I want to make sure the > butterfly doesn't get trapped in there when it emerges. > > Thanks, > Dixie Jordan > Oakland, CA ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From xiwang at sprint.ca Fri Aug 9 22:38:02 2002 From: xiwang at sprint.ca (Xi Wang) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:38:02 -0500 Subject: guidebook suggestions? References: <1fgiomb.ez5sz0kmw3y8N%alienmac@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3D547C8A.59AF35C@sprint.ca> Hi Bill, Unfortunately, I don't think such a guide exists. Field guides are designed to contain only basic taxonomic information as its main purpose is simply to pin a name onto an organism in the field, preferably quickly. And a book containing a lot of taxonomy would be a burden to carry, and hence would make a poor field guide. I suggest getting a field guide as well as a more comprehensive book on lepidoptera which will complement the guide. All the field guides out there are pretty much the same, so getting any will do the job. Peace, Xi Wang williamd wrote: > I am new to the hobby and would like to get one or more good guidebooks > to help me id the species I see, and so that I might learn something of > their taxonomy. The only one I see locally is the Natl Audubon guide. I > have been into birding for a few years and have found I do not care for > this guide. I find all the flipping back and forth confusing. Plus, it > seems to place more value on which species look alike, whereas I'm more > interested in learning to id them by Family, etc. I'm guessing the same > might apply to a bufferfly & moth guide. > > Any comments on the guides those of this group use, and or suggestions > of which might be right for me would be most welcome. > > bill > > __ > williamd at naturalists.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From aa6g at aa6g.org Sat Aug 10 10:19:39 2002 From: aa6g at aa6g.org (Chuck Vaughn) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 07:19:39 -0700 Subject: Help with anise swallowtail pupa stage, please In-Reply-To: <3D547B9B.60CA9E83@sprint.ca> Message-ID: Dixie, It's getting late enough in the year now that it may overwinter. If it doesn't eclose in a couple of weeks then you'll have to wait until next spring. It could anywhere from March until June. I've even had a few go two years. Also, in regards to Xi's comments, you'll be able to see the wings through the chrysalis if it's light green or light brown colored. If it is the dark weathered wood colored one, you probably will not be able to see the wings. Those have surprised me a couple of times even under careful watch. :-) Chuck ----------------------------------- > Dixie, > > In my experience with Black Swallowtails (Papilio polyxenes asterius), > eclosion > usually takes place after roughly 15 days, but this may vary depending on > temperature. Before it emerges, you will actually be able to see the > butterfly > within the chrysalis. You should be able to make out the wing outline, as > well > as pattern, and other basic anatomical features such as the abdomen, head, > antennae..etc. At the point, eclosion within the next 24 hrs is pretty much > guaranteed. If you observe the chyrsalis continually, you will actually be > able > to see the wings and abdomen detach from the inside of the chrysalis over > time, > eclosion usually follows with in a matter of hours. > > Peace, > Xi Wang > > Rusty6356 wrote: > >> Could someone tell me about how long an anise swallowtail (Papilio zelicaon) >> will remain in its chrysalis? And/or how to tell when it's about to emerge? >> >> This is my first try at raising a butterfly and has been fairly successful so >> far, although the caterpillar turned out to be something of an escape artist >> and had to be rescued from the dish drainer-- >> >> It started making its chrysalis yesterday, Aug. 8, at the top of a shaded >> kitchen window, behind a set of mini-blinds, and I want to make sure the >> butterfly doesn't get trapped in there when it emerges. >> >> Thanks, >> Dixie Jordan >> Oakland, CA > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Sat Aug 10 10:50:19 2002 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 07:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ecology Today...Monday, 12 August "The Manatee" Message-ID: <20020810145019.68694.qmail@web12201.mail.yahoo.com> Greetings:) On Monday, Time: 11-Noon EDST the show will be back with Joe Murphy, Katy Anderson and myself hosting Suzanne Tarr, Staff Biologist, Save the Manatee Club, and back by popular demand, Susannah Lindberg, Manatee Campaign Director, The Wildlife Advocacy Project. Wow! We are bringing out the heavy guns to discuss the biology and ecology as well as the environmental issues concerning this popular and controversal animal. Previewing 19 August: Joe Murphy, steve Komlos continue our Coastal Ecosystems Series with the "Salt water Marshes and Estuaries...Part One. Tune 1520 AM (Tampa Bay Area) or simulcast on the WWW. There is a slow stream by camcorder and the shows are re-broadcast on the internet only... everyday... 5-6 PM on a random basis. This week's show 1520 AM Tampa Bay and http://www.hawkradio.com. (supported by RealPlayer) a free download). e mail: dj at hawkradio.com EcologyToday at aol.com Bulletin board: http://www.RJP.eboard.com Supported By: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri Call In: 813-253-7592 *************************************************************************************************** ECOLOGY TODAY is a production of the Office of Environmental Communications [ECO} an integral part of the Institute of Ecological and Environmental Studies [IEES]. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Produced and Directed by Bob Parcelles, Jr. Chairman of IEES and CO-hosted by Stephen Garrett Komlos, Lynn Marshall, Joe Murphy, Katy Anderson and BJ Lower...Naturalists, educators. activists and biologists working together to keep it "Green and Clean". Katy Anderson, Director ECO, is our Environmental Communications Specialist and also assists in production. All are members and directors of IEES. This Eco-team brings you the most up-to-date information on local, state and national environmental topics and issues. Each week from 1-3 guests are on the show for your listening pleasure and enlightenment. Long distance guests as well as on-site broadcasting are in the works. Coming soon... FM, Public Access and PBS. ********************************************************************** Thanks and see ya on the radio, Bob ##################################################################### ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL Ecologist/Ethologist RJP Associates Institute of Ecological and Environmental Studies rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Sat Aug 10 12:53:46 2002 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:53:46 -0500 Subject: Off Topic Sighting... Message-ID: <20020810.115348.-170697.0.mbpi@juno.com> Greetings all! I thought I'd ask on this listserv, since my sighting resembled a "bumble-bee moth," but in reality was a Hymenopteran species. I was at the post office in Evanston, Illinois this morning around 8:30 am, and witnessed a huge erruption of what appeared to be at first glance bumble-bee moths! After watching their behavior for several minutes, I realized they weren't the least bit interested in the flowers surrounding the post office, but were instead extremely pugnacious in their behavior, attacking everything from sparrows to bumble-bees. Though they weren't attacking people that came and went from the Post Office, they did hone in on me as I stood there watching them, and I finally saw one land and it definitely had the stance of a bee or wasp with it's six sturdy legs. The antennae were large and bristly, and when I realized they were Hymenoptera, I was quite taken aback by their humongous size!!! Not knowing if they were the "stinging" variety, I quickly beat a hasty retreat... Question: What WERE they?! I've never seen such a big-bodied bee/wasp like it! They even dwarfed the bumble-bees... M.B. Prondzinski USA ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From lynnscott at heiconsulting.com Sat Aug 10 14:26:09 2002 From: lynnscott at heiconsulting.com (Lynn Scott) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:26:09 -0400 Subject: Off Topic Sighting... In-Reply-To: <20020810.115348.-170697.0.mbpi@juno.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020810142308.00a84ad0@pop.registeredsite.com> Interesting comment. A month or more ago, at my UV light, I observed and photographed what looked like a big mean bee or wasp that I eventually pinned down as one of a group of flies collectively called Bee Flies or Hornet Flies. I wonder if it's possible that your insect was actually from this group of Diptera, or whether it was unequivocally Hymenoptera? Lynn Scott At 12:53 PM 8/10/2002, mbpi at juno.com wrote: >Greetings all! > >I thought I'd ask on this listserv, since my sighting resembled a >"bumble-bee moth," but in reality was a Hymenopteran species. > >I was at the post office in Evanston, Illinois this morning around 8:30 >am, and witnessed a huge erruption of what appeared to be at first glance >bumble-bee moths! After watching their behavior for several minutes, I >realized they weren't the least bit interested in the flowers surrounding >the post office, but were instead extremely pugnacious in their behavior, >attacking everything from sparrows to bumble-bees. Though they weren't >attacking people that came and went from the Post Office, they did hone >in on me as I stood there watching them, and I finally saw one land and >it definitely had the stance of a bee or wasp with it's six sturdy legs. >The antennae were large and bristly, and when I realized they were >Hymenoptera, I was quite taken aback by their humongous size!!! Not >knowing if they were the "stinging" variety, I quickly beat a hasty >retreat... > >Question: What WERE they?! I've never seen such a big-bodied bee/wasp >like it! They even dwarfed the bumble-bees... > >M.B. Prondzinski >USA > >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sun Aug 11 02:16:59 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 02:16:59 -0400 Subject: donations needed Message-ID: <000701c240fe$b54ba6a0$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> I know a lot of people have been given an unwanted tax write off by the Stock Market. It has also altered the financial planning of some. So I don't know how good a time this is to bring this up but we are still in urgent need of funds for our Miami Blue Butterfly Restoration Project. These donations are fully US tax deductible. To donate just go to http://tils-ttr.org/donate.html and either utilize PayPal or print out and mail in your donation. Receipts are sent out immediately for your records. There are other areas which need funding also. a $500 donation from just 20 people would make a huge difference in what we are able to do. There are very likely 20 people receiving this that could contribute this much, even more. For many other just $100 or $50 would be a lot. We can all give something, and every bit does help. Give this some serious thought, and help as you are able. Thanks a million. Really, that is how very grateful we are for your caring help. Ron Gatrelle TILS president Charleston, SC - USA http://www.tils-ttr.org ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Sun Aug 11 11:34:53 2002 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 08:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: fROM THE PENS OF BABES COME PEARLS Message-ID: <20020811153453.47588.qmail@web12204.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Lepsters, I found this quite energising. bob ======================================================================== Democrat And Chronicle (Rochester, NY) Daily Digest Nine-year-old Blake Wichtowski can appreciate the power of the pen. His award winning essay on helping the endangered Karner blue butterfly caught the attention of Dr. Jeff Wyatt veterinarian for the Seneca Park Zoo. Wyatt talked to Monroe County Officials about helping the Karner, which is the states smallest endangered butterfly. On Thursday county executive Jack Doyle not only honored Blake for being the New York State winner of the Mutual of Omaha insurance company's essay contest about endangered species, but also said the county would help Blakes cause. Blake who lives in Honeoye, Ontario County, wrote an essay that proposes planting this butterfly's favorite food: blue lupine wildflowers. So the county is setting aside about a half-acre of land at the greater Rochester International Airport to grow lupines. "It's a helping hand" Wyatt said. In about two years seeds from the Lupines will be harvested and sent to the Albany Pine Bush Preserve, where several hundred Karner blue butterflies can be found. Doyle also said that the Seneca Park Zoo would participate in the nation wide Conservation Initiative, which brings together government and nongovernment groups to aid endangered butterflies. The zoo has built a gazebo to breed Monarch butterflies and with the Senior Health Alliance of Greater Rochester, is creating five butterfly gardens at local nursing homes. -James Goodman Phyliis Baker, Vice-Chair for Support, Miami Blue butterfly Restoration Project/Project Manager, MBBRP for IEES gave this to me. Thank you Phylis, RJP ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL Ecologist/Ethologist RJP Associates Institute of Ecological and Environmental Studies rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Sun Aug 11 15:25:19 2002 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: donations needed In-Reply-To: <000701c240fe$b54ba6a0$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20020811192519.93418.qmail@web12201.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ron Gatrelle wrote: > I know a lot of people have been given an unwanted tax write off by > the > Stock Market. It has also altered the financial planning of some. > So I > don't know how good a time this is to bring this up but we are still > in > urgent need of funds for our Miami Blue Butterfly Restoration > Project. > These donations are fully US tax deductible. > > To donate just go to http://tils-ttr.org/donate.html and either > utilize > PayPal or print out and mail in your donation. Receipts are sent out > immediately for your records. There are other areas which need > funding > also. a $500 donation from just 20 people would make a huge > difference in > what we are able to do. There are very likely 20 people receiving > this > that could contribute this much, even more. For many other just $100 > or > $50 would be a lot. We can all give something, and every bit does > help. > Give this some serious thought, and help as you are able. > > Thanks a million. Really, that is how very grateful we are for your > caring > help. > > Ron Gatrelle > TILS president > Charleston, SC - USA > http://www.tils-ttr.org ========================= Greetings :) Ron, thank you very much. As the TILS Project Manager/MBBRP and the chairman of IEES the Co-sponsor of the Project, I have to wholeheartedly and humbly ask for your help. We have been keeping a low profile as our science staff,lead by Mark Walker, Leroy Koehn, Dr. Kurt Johnson and our Field Research Manager, Daviid Fine have been making great headway. Often when you are working the "null hypotheseis, you raise more questions than science. Unfortuneatly, we have seemed to be in competition with another element and that should not have been so. [By the way their science is being shared to us but we have not reciprocated because of the politics involved at this time]; Therefore we can not do hard work for others to use without the old adage "take the blame but share the fame". They are self-funded and we are not. That is unfortunate. Since we do not work for fame. The only thing others have done is cut off our funding ..or try to. That only damages the speed not our drive and eventual achievment of goals. AAs far as the sceince peole involved this is not going to go along much longer we will all be together. This is a true grass roots effort but it still takes money. Many of you have a "wait and see attitude". I can appreciate that. I have had the same attitude many times. However, if we fail, it will be because of procrastination in that direction--- not for any other reason. We can offer no excuses. That is an adage I learned long ago in business. We have and are handling ALL other considerations. We have several hundred people waiting to get the word to distribute flyers, Host plants are being grown and many waiting to be told they can do that. They can. But the science comes first. There developments and some to come which I can not discuss at this time. But I soon will be able to. Let me say this: Your monies wil go to the printing and distribution of John C. Calhoun's beautiful and articulate ID brochure and the funding of the expenses for David's weekly research. Jose Muniz, the Assistant Task Force Director, [Anne Kilmer's !st Lt.if you will] is taking over the distrubution of 2 Press releases that are 2 months late being put out. The Task Force, our 3 Vice Chairs,the support staff (under Phylis Baker and the Science staff are ready to go with your kind and generous help. Many of you have voluntered for the help end of it and Anne will forward this to EACH and EVERY one of you... I am sure. We have forgotten no one, including those who grew tired and quit and those who were lead away. All can help with this but two who never could do that. That is sad but true. ... All who will help Jose and I get these two Press releases out to National Media will sure be appreciated. PLease contact me personally at parcbob at aol for Press Releases and help from the many media people in Florida or beyond who are reading this. If we are successful in fundraising, the next Press Release (#3) will tell of the research accomplishments and the new hypothises, as well as the great news on the "political front". At that time we will need to organize thousands of volunteers. It takes a BIG, DIVERSIFIED, and MULTITALENTED organization, backed by science. MBBRP is that organization. Of this I have no doubts and you should not either. As Ron said to me and others some weeks ago "What are WE...Chopped Liver?" No Ron we are not. We are just going to get the job done and say NEXT! Thank you and God bless, RJP PS 1: Frequently check My E Bulletin board and Nature Potpourri for developments. When we officially launch YOUR grass-roots taskforce for the "Miami blue Crew" I will turn on a list serve I have created for all or any to join. PS 2: For every one who donates their hard earned money to MBBRP I will personally offer you a years free subscription to Nature Potpourri :). Now you are laughing. Well that is good so you do not think that, becasue I am on the soapbox, I am taking myself too seriously. We get a lot of that. But you know, I am only half joking. IEES or the name of the new parent organization (still thinking on that), someday, a coupla years maybe), hopes to put out a quarterly or bi-monthly Journal or magazine or both. The magazine will be Nature Potpourri...Where it all started... ###################################################################### ########## Robert James Parcelles, Jr. Biologist/Owner 'Specializing in Aquatic Ecosystems' RJP Associates Pinellas Park, FL 33782 (727) 548-9775 (888) 257-3077 PIN # 3711 http://RJP.eboard.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TILS-LEPS-TALK http://www.tils-ttr.org [The International Lepidoptera Survey} "Ecology is the Economics of nature; Economics is the Ecology of man" ...Dr. Marston Bates, _The Forest and the Sea_, 1962. ###################################################################### ########## ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL Ecologist/Ethologist RJP Associates Institute of Ecological and Environmental Studies rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Mon Aug 12 00:40:40 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 00:40:40 -0400 Subject: Pyle on Leps-talk Message-ID: <004001c241ba$69751b00$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> I haven't had much of a chance to get into Pyle's Cascadia book. But here are some initial comments. I like the basic perspective of geo-regional coverage rather than a "state" book. This is reflected in his section on biogeography. The section on "why names change" is something I hope all amateurs who buy this will soon read. Because of the continued reverberations that my revision of *Chlosyne ismeria* has and is producing I in particular am noting his d) subsection on: Historic Adjustments. The nomenclatorial arrangements are interesting as to what he lumps and what he splits. Looking at the Swallowtails, .... This is just to let all know this is a current Leps-talk thread. The messages and archives of Leps-talk are not public. One must be subscribed to access. To join the list click and send TILS-leps-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From monarch at saber.net Sun Aug 11 17:56:41 2002 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 21:56:41 +0000 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A671@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <3D56DD99.F53@saber.net> The most concentrated summer monarch breeding populations in the world exist in the upper midwestern USA. In particular, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa, have a great abundance of monarchs in the summer. Just where do these monarchs breed? According to Iowa State entomologists It turns out most of them breed on milkweed plants growing WITHIN the canopy of crop monocultures such as corn and soybeans I got to see this first hand during a visit to the area of Morris, Minnesota on July 28 - Aug. 1 As you view the following pictures, bear in mind: a) Monsanto and Dupont provided the crop seeds and herbicides that help the crop to flourish b) John Deere tractors provided the machinery to prepare the soil and harvest the crops c) Big oil companies provided the gasoline and oil run the tractors and harvesters. d) Chemical companies provided the nitrogen fertilizer required to help the crops flourish. http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanrr.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrrflower.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanfemale3.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/morrismating.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cornmilkweed.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/morris.jpg If you're wondering just what makes these crop monocultures such great monarch breeding habitat well its because: 1. A reduced abundance and diversity of monarch egg and caterpillar parasites and predators exists WITHIN the monoculture crop canopy. 2. The rich, fertile, well aerated soil and crop irrigation water promotes the survival and growth of milkweed seedlings. Tender and well watered milkweed seedlings promote the production of big, vigorous monarch caterpillars and butterflies. 3. Red Clover and Alfalfa crops (livestock feed) commonly planted in the same region or on the borders of the crops provide a rich, abundant nectar source for monarch and other butterflies. http://www.saber.net/~monarch/tigeralfalfa.jpg Paul Cherubini Placerville, Calif. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From alexander.pernstich at univie.ac.at Mon Aug 12 05:33:06 2002 From: alexander.pernstich at univie.ac.at (Alexander Pernstich) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:33:06 +0200 Subject: Heliconius melpomene food source References: <3d538df4$0$18836$3b214f66@news.univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <3d57808c$0$8780$3b214f66@news.univie.ac.at> Hallo Newsgroup! Many thanks for your good and quick tips. I have got Passiflora caerulea and the females have immediately started laying eggs. With friendly regards, Alex ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us Mon Aug 12 10:37:32 2002 From: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us (Robert Dana) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:37:32 -0500 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat Message-ID: Well, as has been said before, every cloud has a silver lining. But wait . . . these Iowa State entomologists--have they published anything on this? What methodology did they use to determine the relative production of crop fields vs., say, road margins, pastures, etc? Before I become too enthusiasitic about industrial agriculture, I guess I should check these details out. Oh, and Colias philodice and eurytheme are flourishing in MN alfalfa fields. Robert Dana >>> Paul Cherubini 8/11/02 4:56:41 PM >>> The most concentrated summer monarch breeding populations in the world exist in the upper midwestern USA. In particular, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa, have a great abundance of monarchs in the summer. Just where do these monarchs breed? According to Iowa State entomologists It turns out most of them breed on milkweed plants growing WITHIN the canopy of crop monocultures such as corn and soybeans I got to see this first hand during a visit to the area of Morris, Minnesota on July 28 - Aug. 1 As you view the following pictures, bear in mind: a) Monsanto and Dupont provided the crop seeds and herbicides that help the crop to flourish b) John Deere tractors provided the machinery to prepare the soil and harvest the crops c) Big oil companies provided the gasoline and oil run the tractors and harvesters. d) Chemical companies provided the nitrogen fertilizer required to help the crops flourish. http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanrr.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrrflower.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanfemale3.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/morrismating.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cornmilkweed.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/morris.jpg If you're wondering just what makes these crop monocultures such great monarch breeding habitat well its because: 1. A reduced abundance and diversity of monarch egg and caterpillar parasites and predators exists WITHIN the monoculture crop canopy. 2. The rich, fertile, well aerated soil and crop irrigation water promotes the survival and growth of milkweed seedlings. Tender and well watered milkweed seedlings promote the production of big, vigorous monarch caterpillars and butterflies. 3. Red Clover and Alfalfa crops (livestock feed) commonly planted in the same region or on the borders of the crops provide a rich, abundant nectar source for monarch and other butterflies. http://www.saber.net/~monarch/tigeralfalfa.jpg Paul Cherubini Placerville, Calif. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From monarch at saber.net Mon Aug 12 05:45:28 2002 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:45:28 +0000 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: Message-ID: <3D5783B8.3AB8@saber.net> Robert Dana wrote: > But wait . . . these Iowa State entomologists--have they published > anything on this? What methodology did they use to determine the > relative production of crop fields vs., say, road margins, pastures, > etc? Before I become too enthusiasitic about industrial agriculture, I > guess I should check these details out. Dr. John Pleasants at Iowa State in Ames, IA could tell you where his work has been published. At the May 2001 Monarch Research Symposium in Lawrence, KS, Dr. Pleasants said he estimates a staggering 94% of all the monarchs that breed in Minnesota develope on milkweed plants growing inside of corn and soybean fields. Monarch caterpillar survival is much higher inside of corn fields compared to road margins, pastures, and natural areas according to Dr. Pleasants and his colleagues. Also, female monarchs have an oviposition preference for milkweed growing inside the corn crop canopy. Paul Cherubini ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jshuey at TNC.ORG Mon Aug 12 14:13:53 2002 From: jshuey at TNC.ORG (John Shuey) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:13:53 -0500 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat In-Reply-To: <3D5783B8.3AB8@saber.net> Message-ID: Dr. Pleasants must work in a land where round-up ready crops don't dominate the landscape - say like the fantasy world of Paul Cherunbini's brain. Round-up ready beans, 50% of the bean-corn rotation in the Midwest, insure that fields are virtually weed-free - milkweeds included. (note that milkweeds were one of the most persistent problems that traditional tillage farmers had to cope with - a long-lived plant that can spread through root fragments). But now, thanks to roundup ready bean fields, the two annual herbicide applications make for a weed free field for both the bean and the corn rotation. Farmers are realizing the benefits they get from just one or two cycles of the genetically altered crops - and they have been used on almost every row-crop acre in Indiana to eliminate the persistent weed species. And I speak from experience - My chapter of TNC has about 3,500 acres in the corn - bean rotation at the moment - part of our Kankakee Sands Restoration - http://nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/indiana/work/art7790.html. We love round-up ready beans - for the weed free environment they provide for our initial restoration planting. In fact, we require our tenant farmers to plant the GM crop during the last cropping year before we restore the site. And I can personally attest, that no milkweed survives the round-up treatments inside one of these units for more than a single growing season. I was just at the site last Thursday looking at site preparation for next year's prairie restoration , and spotting 3-foot tall milkweed in 16-inch tall soybean fields is like spotting an elephant eating a bale of hay. By the way, we have 4 milkweeds in the project nursery, Asclepias hirtella, Asclepias incarnata, Asclepias purpurescens and Asclepias tuberosa and wild collect 2 others - Asclepias sullivantii and Asclepias viridiflora. Last year we planted a little over 10 pounds of clean Asclepias seed (~760,000 seeds). Our real goal (which the nursery is designed to hit) is about 60 pounds of seed per year, or ~0.2 Asclepias seeds per square foot seeded. Hopefully we will start getting near the target weight next year. John _________________ John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020812/98f2886a/attachment.html From pinteareed at madbbs.com Mon Aug 12 14:36:13 2002 From: pinteareed at madbbs.com (Lili Pintea-Reed) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:36:13 -0400 Subject: Monarch Pupae References: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A671@hqmail.gensym.com> <3D56DD99.F53@saber.net> Message-ID: <003901c2422f$9be88c00$955d270c@lili> I am forwarding this for a friend. She has healthy monarch pupae for sale.. Prices: 1-75 $3.25 each 75 - 100 3.00 each Contact: Cheryl Lake (not me!!!) lakes at petdeals.com or call 1-800-634-2473 She has shipping permits for most states. Thanks. Lili ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From droberts03 at SNET.Net Mon Aug 12 13:01:10 2002 From: droberts03 at SNET.Net (Dale Roberts/Bill Yule) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:01:10 -0400 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: Message-ID: <027601c24221$dcc13a00$1ac93ccc@DaleRoberts> OK Paul I'll rise to your bait. So if I understand your main point Monarchs are butterflies that have adapted to a hostplant that has adapted to open disturbed soil. And from this point, if I understand the implicit suggestion written between the lines of your post, I'm supposed to jump up and cheer for the chemical laden, single crop, Government-sponsored corporate welfare, big machinery dependent agri-business of growing corn to feed cows and soybeans to feed to pigs for the government welfare beef/pork industries? And I should be happy we have lots of Monarchs even though the corporate welfare argribusinesses have displaced thousands (yes, 1000's) of small, diversified, independent farms that supported an incredible lepidopteran biodiversity of probably 50 to a 100 different species each? I think not. Bill Yule ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Dana" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat > Well, as has been said before, every cloud has a silver lining. > > But wait . . . these Iowa State entomologists--have they published > anything on this? What methodology did they use to determine the > relative production of crop fields vs., say, road margins, pastures, > etc? Before I become too enthusiasitic about industrial agriculture, I > guess I should check these details out. > > Oh, and Colias philodice and eurytheme are flourishing in MN alfalfa > fields. > > Robert Dana > > >>> Paul Cherubini 8/11/02 4:56:41 PM >>> > The most concentrated summer monarch breeding populations > in the world exist in the upper midwestern USA. In particular, > Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa, have a great abundance of > monarchs in the summer. > > Just where do these monarchs breed? According to Iowa State > entomologists It turns out most of them breed on milkweed plants > growing WITHIN the canopy of crop monocultures such as corn and > soybeans I got to see this first hand during a visit to the area of > Morris, Minnesota on July 28 - Aug. 1 > > As you view the following pictures, bear in mind: > > a) Monsanto and Dupont provided the crop seeds and herbicides > that help the crop to flourish > > b) John Deere tractors provided the machinery to prepare the soil and > harvest the crops > > c) Big oil companies provided the gasoline and oil run the tractors > and > harvesters. > > d) Chemical companies provided the nitrogen fertilizer required to > help the crops flourish. > > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanrr.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrrflower.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanfemale3.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/morrismating.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cornmilkweed.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/morris.jpg > > If you're wondering just what makes these crop monocultures > such great monarch breeding habitat well its because: > > 1. A reduced abundance and diversity of monarch egg and > caterpillar parasites and predators exists WITHIN the monoculture > crop canopy. > > 2. The rich, fertile, well aerated soil and crop irrigation water > promotes the survival and growth of milkweed seedlings. Tender > and well watered milkweed seedlings promote the production of big, > vigorous monarch caterpillars and butterflies. > > 3. Red Clover and Alfalfa crops (livestock feed) commonly planted > in the same region or on the borders of the crops provide a rich, > abundant nectar source for monarch and other butterflies. > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/tigeralfalfa.jpg > > Paul Cherubini > Placerville, Calif. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From monarch at saber.net Mon Aug 12 08:21:11 2002 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:21:11 +0000 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: Message-ID: <3D57A837.7037@saber.net> John Shuey wrote: > Dr. Pleasants must work in a land where round-up ready > crops don't dominate the landscape - say like the fantasy world > of Paul Cherunbini's brain. > Round-up ready beans, 50% of the bean-corn rotation > in the Midwest, insure that fields are virtually > weed-free - milkweeds included. Free of mature milkweeds, but not milkweed seedlings - the tender, succulent plants ovipositing female monarchs prefer and the most nutritious food for monarch caterpillars. The reality is the area of the USA with the most abundant monarch population right now (and nearly every year in mid-summer) is in western Minnesota. Yet western Minnesota is precisely the same area of the USA with the highest concentration of Roundup Ready soybeans, Bt. corn and herbicide resistant corn. I found milkweed seedlings to be abundant within fields of RR soybeans and Bt corn. Most of these seedlings contained monarch eggs indicating gravid female monarchs are actively laying eggs in these GMO crops. http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanfemale3.jpg I think the point you do not understand is that these are milkweed SEEDLINGS. In the fall, milkweed floss blowing off mature milkweeds growing outside the crops is carried by the wind into adjacent corn and soybean fields. The following spring these seeds sprout and grow well within the GMO crops. Farmers apply Roundup only once or twice a season according to Dr. John Pleasants and the Roundup typically only temporarily injures the milkweed rather than kills it all. So RR Soybeans will not eliminate common milkweed (Asclepias syriaca) in soybean fields because milkweed seeds will continue to be blown into these fields each fall and germinate the following spring and alot of the seedlings will do well despite the one or two Roundup treatments. Besides, A. syriaca seeds germinate in a staggered fashion so if some seedlings get hit hard by Roundup herbicide others will be sprouting and never be exposed to Roundup. Paul Cherubini ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Mon Aug 12 15:20:45 2002 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat In-Reply-To: <027601c24221$dcc13a00$1ac93ccc@DaleRoberts> Message-ID: <20020812192045.35700.qmail@web12207.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dale Roberts/Bill Yule wrote: > OK Paul I'll rise to your bait. > So if I understand your main point Monarchs are butterflies that > have > adapted to a hostplant that has adapted to open disturbed soil. And > from > this point, if I understand the implicit suggestion written between > the > lines of your post, I'm supposed to jump up and cheer for the > chemical > laden, single crop, Government-sponsored corporate welfare, big > machinery > dependent agri-business of growing corn to feed cows and soybeans to > feed to > pigs for the government welfare beef/pork industries? ######################################################################## Paul: Bill just said it all! Bill: Nicest run on sentence I have ever seen. Bob ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL Ecologist/Ethologist RJP Associates Institute of Ecological and Environmental Studies rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From SUNSOL at prodigy.net Mon Aug 12 15:11:15 2002 From: SUNSOL at prodigy.net (Sunsol) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 19:11:15 GMT Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: Message-ID: > > Just where do these monarchs breed? According to Iowa State > entomologists It turns out most of them breed on milkweed plants > growing WITHIN the canopy of crop monocultures such as corn and > soybeans I got to see this first hand during a visit to the area of > Morris, Minnesota on July 28 - Aug. 1 > > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanrr.jpg The above website references "Roundup Ready Soybeans." What does that phrase mean? I know that the crop must be soy beans, and Roundup is an herbicide IIRC. But "Roundup Ready?" Sally ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From monarch at saber.net Mon Aug 12 08:42:18 2002 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:42:18 +0000 Subject: [leps-talk] Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: <027601c24221$dcc13a00$1ac93ccc@DaleRoberts> Message-ID: <3D57AD2A.3A73@saber.net> Bill Yule wrote: > So if I understand your main point Monarchs are butterflies that have > adapted to a hostplant that has adapted to open disturbed soil. And from > this point, if I understand the implicit suggestion written between the > lines of your post, I'm supposed to jump up and cheer for the chemical > laden, single crop, Government-sponsored corporate welfare, big machinery > dependent agri-business of growing corn to feed cows and soybeans to > feed to pigs for the government welfare beef/pork industries? My point is to let people know where the masses of migrating monarchs come from that appear each Sept / Oct. in the midwestern states and at the overwintering sites in Mexico. Most fall migrating monarchs do not come from tracts of land set aside as nature preserves. They come from the vast corn and soybean crop monocultures found in the upper midwest which are created and maintained with the products produced by big oil, chemical, biotech and farm machinery companies. Paul Cherubini ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jshuey at TNC.ORG Mon Aug 12 15:42:13 2002 From: jshuey at TNC.ORG (John Shuey) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:42:13 -0500 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat In-Reply-To: <3D57A837.7037@saber.net> Message-ID: So - you're telling me that a plant that often spends 2-4 years as a "seedling" (4 or fewer leaves per plant and usually less than 6cm tall) while it builds its root system, must manage to seed in at a density that carpets the ground and supports monarch larvae (one mature caterpillar of which would need to consume several of these tiny plants). Paul- you're just making this stuff up aren't you? It's obvious that you actually have no first hand experience with the plants or agricultural systems that you are talking about, and that you are willing to extrapolate wildly based on absolute and total ignorance. Stick to bullshitting your California friends 'cuase us simply prairie folk don't buy into to your stories. Now maybe if they fed on Canada or musk thistle ...... _________________ John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy -----Original Message----- From: Paul Cherubini [mailto:monarch at saber.net] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:21 AM To: jshuey at tnc.org Cc: leps-l at lists.yale.edu; TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat John Shuey wrote: > Dr. Pleasants must work in a land where round-up ready > crops don't dominate the landscape - say like the fantasy world > of Paul Cherunbini's brain. > Round-up ready beans, 50% of the bean-corn rotation > in the Midwest, insure that fields are virtually > weed-free - milkweeds included. Free of mature milkweeds, but not milkweed seedlings - the tender, succulent plants ovipositing female monarchs prefer and the most nutritious food for monarch caterpillars. The reality is the area of the USA with the most abundant monarch population right now (and nearly every year in mid-summer) is in western Minnesota. Yet western Minnesota is precisely the same area of the USA with the highest concentration of Roundup Ready soybeans, Bt. corn and herbicide resistant corn. I found milkweed seedlings to be abundant within fields of RR soybeans and Bt corn. Most of these seedlings contained monarch eggs indicating gravid female monarchs are actively laying eggs in these GMO crops. http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanfemale3.jpg I think the point you do not understand is that these are milkweed SEEDLINGS. In the fall, milkweed floss blowing off mature milkweeds growing outside the crops is carried by the wind into adjacent corn and soybean fields. The following spring these seeds sprout and grow well within the GMO crops. Farmers apply Roundup only once or twice a season according to Dr. John Pleasants and the Roundup typically only temporarily injures the milkweed rather than kills it all. So RR Soybeans will not eliminate common milkweed (Asclepias syriaca) in soybean fields because milkweed seeds will continue to be blown into these fields each fall and germinate the following spring and alot of the seedlings will do well despite the one or two Roundup treatments. Besides, A. syriaca seeds germinate in a staggered fashion so if some seedlings get hit hard by Roundup herbicide others will be sprouting and never be exposed to Roundup. Paul Cherubini ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Mon Aug 12 15:53:56 2002 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:53:56 -0700 Subject: [leps-talk] Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat Message-ID: <6506849CAEBBE24E913A22806016E4060641F13E@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Paul, thank you for continuing to share your observations and insight re. Monarchs. It appears that you are pointing out things that the _Big Enviro Lobby_ does not want to know about or refuses to believe. I also continue to admire your patience in dealing with the continued flow of unwarranted and insulting personal attacks that come from people who should really be debating the point in a more professional manner. (John, not picking on you but the personal attacks on lepsl are what finally drove me off that listserv). I have no problem with people throwing stones at faceless companies and government organizations :-) -----Original Message----- From: Paul Cherubini [mailto:monarch at saber.net] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:21 AM To: jshuey at tnc.org Cc: leps-l at lists.yale.edu; TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com Subject: [leps-talk] Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat John Shuey wrote: > Dr. Pleasants must work in a land where round-up ready > crops don't dominate the landscape - say like the fantasy world > of Paul Cherunbini's brain. > Round-up ready beans, 50% of the bean-corn rotation > in the Midwest, insure that fields are virtually > weed-free - milkweeds included. Free of mature milkweeds, but not milkweed seedlings - the tender, succulent plants ovipositing female monarchs prefer and the most nutritious food for monarch caterpillars. The reality is the area of the USA with the most abundant monarch population right now (and nearly every year in mid-summer) is in western Minnesota. Yet western Minnesota is precisely the same area of the USA with the highest concentration of Roundup Ready soybeans, Bt. corn and herbicide resistant corn. I found milkweed seedlings to be abundant within fields of RR soybeans and Bt corn. Most of these seedlings contained monarch eggs indicating gravid female monarchs are actively laying eggs in these GMO crops. http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanfemale3.jpg I think the point you do not understand is that these are milkweed SEEDLINGS. In the fall, milkweed floss blowing off mature milkweeds growing outside the crops is carried by the wind into adjacent corn and soybean fields. The following spring these seeds sprout and grow well within the GMO crops. Farmers apply Roundup only once or twice a season according to Dr. John Pleasants and the Roundup typically only temporarily injures the milkweed rather than kills it all. So RR Soybeans will not eliminate common milkweed (Asclepias syriaca) in soybean fields because milkweed seeds will continue to be blown into these fields each fall and germinate the following spring and alot of the seedlings will do well despite the one or two Roundup treatments. Besides, A. syriaca seeds germinate in a staggered fashion so if some seedlings get hit hard by Roundup herbicide others will be sprouting and never be exposed to Roundup. Paul Cherubini ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/CCYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> TILS Motto: "We can not protect that which we do not know" ? 1999 Subscribe: TILS-leps-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com Post message: TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com Archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TILS-leps-talk/messages Unsubscribe: TILS-leps-talk-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com For more information: http://www.tils-ttr.org Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Mon Aug 12 15:58:15 2002 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:58:15 -0700 Subject: [leps-talk] Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat Message-ID: <6506849CAEBBE24E913A22806016E4060641F13F@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Paul, I thought you made your point very clearly the first time. I continue to be amazed how often other people who do not know you insist on trying to put words in your mouth. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Cherubini [mailto:monarch at saber.net] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:42 AM To: Dale Roberts/Bill Yule Cc: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us; leps-l at lists.yale.edu; TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leps-talk] Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat Bill Yule wrote: > So if I understand your main point Monarchs are butterflies that have > adapted to a hostplant that has adapted to open disturbed soil. And from > this point, if I understand the implicit suggestion written between the > lines of your post, I'm supposed to jump up and cheer for the chemical > laden, single crop, Government-sponsored corporate welfare, big machinery > dependent agri-business of growing corn to feed cows and soybeans to > feed to pigs for the government welfare beef/pork industries? My point is to let people know where the masses of migrating monarchs come from that appear each Sept / Oct. in the midwestern states and at the overwintering sites in Mexico. Most fall migrating monarchs do not come from tracts of land set aside as nature preserves. They come from the vast corn and soybean crop monocultures found in the upper midwest which are created and maintained with the products produced by big oil, chemical, biotech and farm machinery companies. Paul Cherubini ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/CCYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> TILS Motto: "We can not protect that which we do not know" ? 1999 Subscribe: TILS-leps-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com Post message: TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com Archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TILS-leps-talk/messages Unsubscribe: TILS-leps-talk-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com For more information: http://www.tils-ttr.org Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From spm23 at cornell.edu Mon Aug 12 16:20:11 2002 From: spm23 at cornell.edu (Sean Patrick Mullen) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:20:11 -0400 Subject: Limenitis:) Message-ID: Ah yes, the time has come again to thank those who've help and make the last request of the season for help with collecting Limenitis. As many of you probably know, I'm working on patterns of genetic variation across the range of both the White Admiral (Limenitis arthemis) and the Red-spotted Purple (Limenitis a. astyanax). I'm trying to collect specimens from as many different populations as possible, so if you the inclination, then I would love some help. I wanted to publicly thank Mr. Martin Bailey for his help from SK, Can. He was of great service to me and I deeply appreciate it. I also owe Mr. Bob Parcelles, Jr. an apology..he has been waiting for a package from me for entirely too long...I'm working on it;) However, that aside, here's how YOU can help:). If you happen upon any Limenitis in the next few weeks, grab them! After much deliberation and experimentation, I've decided that papered specimens are fine as long as they have never been relaxed and are from the last 12 months. So, if you collect anything for me, then just drop it in a glassine envelope and ship it to Ithaca. In the past, I've insisted on have my specimens stored in alcohol but I'm afraid that the extra trouble of dealing with vials, etc., has put a number of people off who might otherwise have been willing to help out. Thanks in advance and I'lll see all of you in Alberta next summer for LepSoc. -Sean -- Sean P. Mullen, Ph.D. Candidate Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology E445 Corson Hall, Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 spm23 at cornell.edu (607) 254-4285 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jshuey at TNC.ORG Mon Aug 12 16:39:43 2002 From: jshuey at TNC.ORG (John Shuey) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:39:43 -0500 Subject: [leps-talk] Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat In-Reply-To: <6506849CAEBBE24E913A22806016E4060641F13F@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: Hey - as they do in Newsweek - I should point out that in the spirit of full disclosure I'm not exactly an "Unbiased Monsanto Basher". Like I said earlier, we use roundup ready beans and in fact require their use in certain circumstances. Further, my program receives generous funding from Monsanto - mostly to look at conservation tillage issues at high biodiversity aquatic systems in Indiana, Ohio and Michigan. Again, we think their beans are one of the best tools in hand for keeping agricultural runoff out of rivers and streams. Monsanto funded several years of work in the Upper St Joseph River Project Area, and just recently funded a proposal to spend 2-years working on similar soybean production issues in Brazil (funding mostly an exchange between Indiana and the ag community around Emas National Park - from which the Emas River flows). So, my point is this - Roundup works really well. Because of our relationship with Monsanto (and because their products can be used very effectively by conservation programs), I personally see their product in action almost every week. And I can tell you that following the second treatment in fields this summer - there are essentially no seedlings of anything in the soybean fields as of last week (transects through fields totaling about 1,200 acres). Not even Canada thistle! So anyone telling you different is either working in fields under traditional tillage or with farmers that don't have the same mean streak as Hoosier's do towards their weeds. Paul may be making his point well - but its a point that does not stand up to the light of first hand experience. John _________________ John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From monarch at saber.net Mon Aug 12 10:42:40 2002 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:42:40 +0000 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: Message-ID: <3D57C960.3E8D@saber.net> John Shuey wrote: > So - you're telling me that a plant that often spends 2-4 years as a > "seedling" (4 or fewer leaves per plant and usually less than 6cm tall) > while it builds its root system, must manage to seed in at a density that > carpets the ground and supports monarch larvae (one mature caterpillar of > which would need to consume several of these tiny plants). The ground beneath the canopy of GMO corn and soybean plants, especially at the perimeter edges of the fields, rather frequently has almost a carpet of milkweed seedlings. In this picture http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cornmilkweed.jpg I put in arrows pointing to three milkweed seedlings, but there are actually many more seedlings in this photo that are difficult to see. So as a monarch caterpillar munches down one seedling it will just wander off and find another one in the immediate vicinity. > Paul- you're just making this stuff up aren't you? It's obvious that you > actually have no first hand experience with the plants or agricultural > systems that you are talking about, and that you are willing to extrapolate > wildly based on absolute and total ignorance. Stick to bullshitting your > California friends 'cuase us simply prairie folk don't buy into to your > stories. John, I am just reporting and expanding a bit on the findings of Iowa State Professor John Pleasants and his colleagues. THEY are the brilliant Ag school Ph.D's that know midwestern agroecosystems inside and out and deserve credit for enlightening us about the importance of agricultural habitats to monarch butterflies. As a matter of fact, two years ago I mistakenly argued here that milkweed was not common in corn and soybean fields because one does not see too many mature weeds of any kind growing in these fields. The fields appear weed free as in this picture http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanrr.jpg It is only when you go looking inside the canopy of these crop plants that you see the numerous milkweed seedlings like this one http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg Paul Cherubini ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jshuey at TNC.ORG Mon Aug 12 18:32:24 2002 From: jshuey at TNC.ORG (John Shuey) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:32:24 -0500 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat In-Reply-To: <3D57C960.3E8D@saber.net> Message-ID: Now try and keep my story straight here - I've been talking from the first post about the corn - bean rotation and the impact roundup ready beans have on weeds. (and ultimately most cropland in this particular rotation) So I looked at the photo link and here is what I see: 1.. Its right on the edge of the field - you can actually see stuff that looks like dense reed canary or orchard grass one row to the left. 2.. The milkweed in the foreground is not a seedling - looks like 2 yr old nursery stock to me (which means that it is probably from a root fragment or a 3+year old seedling) 3.. Look at the soil - you can see it right?? This is not in conservation tillage but rather traditional plowed. I see no signs of soybean stubble (or any of last year's crop residue for that matter) indicating that it is not likely that this came out of recent roundup ready beans or herbicide resistant corn. In fact - it looks like a traditional field to me (I'd be trying to work with this farmer if he were practicing in Indiana to get better practices on the ground) So what you see is a very typical distortion from Paul. He takes one piece of information, builds on it, and then tries to defend the universe that he so loves. Here's what he initially said: So - you're telling me that a plant that often spends 2-4 years as a > "seedling" (4 or fewer leaves per plant and usually less than 6cm tall) > while it builds its root system, must manage to seed in at a density that > carpets the ground and supports monarch larvae (one mature caterpillar of > which would need to consume several of these tiny plants). The ground beneath the canopy of GMO corn and soybean plants, especially at the perimeter edges of the fields, rather frequently has almost a carpet of milkweed seedlings. In this picture http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cornmilkweed.jpg I put in arrows pointing to three milkweed seedlings, but there are actually many more seedlings in this photo that are difficult to see. So as a monarch caterpillar munches down one seedling it will just wander off and find another one in the immediate vicinity. > Paul- you're just making this stuff up aren't you? It's obvious that you > actually have no first hand experience with the plants or agricultural > systems that you are talking about, and that you are willing to extrapolate > wildly based on absolute and total ignorance. Stick to bullshitting your > California friends 'cuase us simply prairie folk don't buy into to your > stories. John, I am just reporting and expanding a bit on the findings of Iowa State Professor John Pleasants and his colleagues. THEY are the brilliant Ag school Ph.D's that know midwestern agroecosystems inside and out and deserve credit for enlightening us about the importance of agricultural habitats to monarch butterflies. As a matter of fact, two years ago I mistakenly argued here that milkweed was not common in corn and soybean fields because one does not see too many mature weeds of any kind growing in these fields. The fields appear weed free as in this picture http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanrr.jpg It is only when you go looking inside the canopy of these crop plants that you see the numerous milkweed seedlings like this one http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg Paul Cherubini -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020812/b7e3eb8e/attachment.html From SUNSOL at prodigy.net Mon Aug 12 18:29:31 2002 From: SUNSOL at prodigy.net (Sunsol) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:29:31 GMT Subject: Raising Swallowtails Message-ID: Hi everybody, I have been raising a Western Tiger Swallowtail the past few weeks. It is so different from an anise swallowtail. It grows much more slowly. It seems to spend most of its time sitting around. It even created a special leaf with a bed of silk for sitting. Occassionally I caught it on another leaf eating. Then it would go back to its silk bed to sit. Then, it ate half the leaf with silk, I guess including the silk. I thought it was sick for a long time, because it was doing nothing. But it is still pooping, so I think it is alright. I hope I am able to raise it to the adult stage. Will it emerge this fall? Sally ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MexicoDoug at aol.com Mon Aug 12 20:39:41 2002 From: MexicoDoug at aol.com (MexicoDoug at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:39:41 EDT Subject: "Roundup Ready" Message-ID: En un mensaje con fecha 08/12/2002 2:55:53 PM Central Daylight Time, SUNSOL at prodigy.net escribe: > The above website references "Roundup Ready Soybeans." What does that phrase > mean? I know that the crop must be soy beans, and Roundup is an herbicide > IIRC. But "Roundup Ready?" Sally Hi Sally, to see Monsanto's definition of "Roundup Ready", goto: http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/products/popups/roundup_ready.html Roundup ready means your soybeans can be sprayed with Roundup and they are ready - ie, can handle it while the other weeds can't. They basically are soybean plants bred to resist application of 'glyphosphate', a probable carcinogen with a relatively short lifetime hanging around, unless it contacts herbs (non-woody stemmed plants). Glyphosphate is an excellent broad spectrum herbicide if it has a chance to contact the weedy herbs. Monsanto developed and patented glyphosphate under the brand name Roundup. Monsanto's patents on the herbicide are about finished, so the business folk in that company came up with a way to maintain their market share for the brand name herbicide instead of losing it to cheaper generic glyphosphate competitive products(or see: BASF competitive product: ( http://www.farmsource.com/Product_Info/product_details.asp?Product_ID=12& Product_Name=Roundup_Ready(R)_Soybeans&Rgn=2&ProductType=T ) In a paradigm shift they redefined their product as a system, simply breeding and patenting the soybean plant itself to be resistant to glyphosphate. So they can sell the farmers the seeds and bundle the herbicide as part of the system, and maintain dominance selling branded Roundup glyphosphate. The farmers are happy because they can drench their crops with Roundup if necessary and not lose them, but knock out all the weeds that provoke terrible yield. But it is not as rosey as it seems for Monsanto's product nor is their great incentive to mindlessly drench with Roundup, as it costs and it stresses the plants anyway, also having an impact on yields. But it is a great insurance policy especially on a bad weed season when a farmer sees his field getting taken over. And some people object to the fact that some of the breeding to produce the novel soybeans was 'forced' in a petri dish (GMO) vs. done by crossing and backcrossing in the 'traditional' sense. Hope that helps. Doug Dawn Monterrey, Mexico -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020812/fe305539/attachment.html From monarch at saber.net Mon Aug 12 13:41:38 2002 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:41:38 +0000 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: Message-ID: <3D57F352.1438@saber.net> John Shuey wrote: > So what you see is a very typical distortion from Paul. > He takes one piece of information, builds on it, and then > tries to defend the universe that he so loves. John, in the case of soybeans, the Roundup Ready soybean field where this picture http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg was taken contained a mixture of both seedling and mature flowering milkweeds. See for yourself: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/RRsoybean1.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/RRsoybeansmilkweed.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/RRflower.jpg Paul Cherubini ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From xiwang at sprint.ca Mon Aug 12 20:57:00 2002 From: xiwang at sprint.ca (Xi Wang) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 19:57:00 -0500 Subject: Raising Swallowtails References: Message-ID: <3D58595C.3F4002C4@sprint.ca> Hi Sally, The number of generations per year for a given species depends a lot on the latitude. It would be nice to know roughly where you are. Cheers, Xi Wang Sunsol wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I have been raising a Western Tiger Swallowtail the past few weeks. It is so > different from an anise swallowtail. It grows much more slowly. It seems to > spend most of its time sitting around. It even created a special leaf with a > bed of silk for sitting. Occassionally I caught it on another leaf eating. > Then it would go back to its silk bed to sit. Then, it ate half the leaf > with silk, I guess including the silk. I thought it was sick for a long > time, because it was doing nothing. But it is still pooping, so I think it > is alright. I hope I am able to raise it to the adult stage. Will it emerge > this fall? > > Sally ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Tue Aug 13 00:27:03 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:27:03 -0400 Subject: Rocky Mountain High - Part 6 Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A689@hqmail.gensym.com> Well, these reports are getting pretty stale by now. The trip has been over for over a week - but what the heck - I've still got a few adventures to report on. This adventure took place on Sunday, July 28th - and took my son and I through Teller County and all the way around Pike's Peak. We got an early start, and had time to do a little sight seeing - so we chose to drive through the old mining towns of Cripple Creek, Elkton, Victor, Goldfield, and Independence. If you're ever visiting this part of Colorado, and you have some extra time, I strongly recommend this side trip. These towns are fantastic. The whole area is right below the 10,000 ft. level - which is easy to forget, since it looks like it might be more like 7000 ft with all the high peaks surrounding it. This must have been one tough place to live during the Colorado gold rush of the late 1800's. I suspect they get a pretty severe dumping of snow each and every winter. Cripple Creek has gambling casinos. I'm not much of a gambler (with anything other than my life and family stability), but I can tell you that if I were, I'd be way more likely to visit this place than I would Las Vegas or Atlantic City. The casinos are small - they're in what used to be saloons, banks, and mercantile shops (the original buildings). Hitch up ol' Lightening, play a few rounds of poker, then mosey on up to the bar for a cold root beer - my kind of gaming. The mines throughout this area are also interesting. Several of them are still operating, while others allow touring. This is the sort of thing I would have spent a lot of time playing around with had I not become so re-anamored with butterflying. I'm just an old Blondie (the "Good") at heart, having spent many hours playing the gun slinging, cigar-smoking cowboy out in the deserts of southern California in my youth. Don't' tell anybody - I wouldn't want anybody to think I was weird. I didn't have a horse or any guns (but I did partake in the evils of Swisher Sweets, the tobacco of choice for sneaky adolescent Clint Eastwood wannabes). By 10:00 a.m. we were already on our way on unpaved roads - heading for the high ground on the south side of Pikes Peak. At Clyde we drove up the forest road towards Sheep Mountain. Unfortunately, the road is completely barred (as in chain-link fenced) at Seven Lakes - a Colorado Springs municipal water reservoir. The fence and gate are on account of the low water tables. It seems that when rain doesn't fall, they don't appreciate people recreating in their limited supply of drinking water. Makes sense to me. Oh well - we decided to get out and go for a hike instead. We quickly gained in altitude and found ourselves in some outrageous habitat. Unfortunately, it was getting close to noon by the time we got to the best hunting grounds (alpine meadow at around 11,000 ft) - and the thunderheads were looming all around us. We were hiking in shorts and T-shirts, and the falling rain felt good on our flesh. The rocking thunder claps made it all the more dramatic. My son was the one who pointed out that it may not be such a good idea to be walking around in this extremely high and exposed terrain with nothing but long metal sticks in our hands. Hmmm. Now why didn't I think of that? Why have I never had this problem before, with all the lepping I've done in rainstorms? The answer wasn't very encouraging - it seems as if I've never even considered it! Benjamin Franklin would be very disappointed in me. After having just narrowly been missed by lightening in 1978 while studying Nuclear Power Generation for the U.S. Navy in Orlando, Florida, you'd think I'd know better. On that occasion, while wielding my behemoth HP calculator, the hair on my head stood straight up - but at the last minute the electric field chose an alternate ionization path through a lightening rod on a nearby building, which took the full brunt of the discharge. Phew! Oh well, I guess it takes the wisdom of a 16-year old to direct the feeble-mindedness of cranky old men. We turned around and headed for the shelter of our rental car. By the time we started driving down Gold Camp Road towards Broadmoor (and the World Figure Skating Hall of Fame), we managed to find ourselves in a bit more sunshine. We even found a few species active - including the very common and gorgeous Lycaena rubidus (Ruddy Copper). This bug is not badly named. The males, when fresh, are as orange as oranges, and luminescently so. For some reason, the hue reminds me of 50-50 bars (ice cream bars made from 50% vanilla ice cream and 50% orange popscicle). Of course, after a day on the mountain, just about anything reminds me of food. Other butterflies sighted on this highly recommended leg: Colias alexandra (Alexandra's Sulphur) Nathalis iole (Dainty Sulphur) Lycaena rubidus (Ruddy Copper) Agriades glandon (Arctic Blue) Plebejus icarioides (Boisduval's Blue) Speyeria aphrodite (Aphrodite Fritillary) Speyeria mormonia (Mormon Fritillary) Nymphalis antiopa (Mourning Cloak) Limenitis weidmeyerii (Weidemeyer's Admiral) Epargyreus clarus (Silver-spotted Skipper) Mark Walker. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020813/16523ac2/attachment.html From jshuey at TNC.ORG Tue Aug 13 07:03:10 2002 From: jshuey at TNC.ORG (John Shuey) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:03:10 -0500 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat In-Reply-To: <3D57F352.1438@saber.net> Message-ID: So again looking at this photo what you see is beans just of out corn in the prior year. This photo is at least in conservation tillage (actually this field has really good residue cover - which is why we push conservation tillage so hard). You can tell it just came out of corn, because, well you see all the corn residue. The lack of residue compaction is a giveaway that it is in its first growing season after corn (and the lack of soybean residue on top). Corn residue is very persistent - and shows up in conservation tillage fields for about 3 years post corn (the cobs hang on for even longer) but fades from tan to gray as it weathers (this is all still tan colored. I see a single milkweed - not a carpet. and plus remember, what I said in previous posts: "And I can personally attest, that no milkweed survives the round-up treatments inside one of these units for more than a single growing season. " 1). It would help if you actually read my posts, and 2) Id like to see one of these field in the second year of Roundup ready crops. Like I said - our fields are always clean. _________________ John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy -----Original Message----- From: Paul Cherubini [mailto:monarch at saber.net] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 11:42 AM To: jshuey at TNC.ORG Cc: leps-l at lists.yale.edu; TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat John Shuey wrote: > So what you see is a very typical distortion from Paul. > He takes one piece of information, builds on it, and then > tries to defend the universe that he so loves. John, in the case of soybeans, the Roundup Ready soybean field where this picture http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg was taken contained a mixture of both seedling and mature flowering milkweeds. See for yourself: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/RRsoybean1.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/RRsoybeansmilkweed.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/RRflower.jpg Paul Cherubini ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From SUNSOL at prodigy.net Tue Aug 13 08:58:16 2002 From: SUNSOL at prodigy.net (Sunsol) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:58:16 GMT Subject: "Roundup Ready" References: Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01C2428E.61839DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable wrote in message = news:cf.1b528c5d.2a89af4d at aol.com... En un mensaje con fecha 08/12/2002 2:55:53 PM Central Daylight Time, = SUNSOL at prodigy.net escribe: The above website references "Roundup Ready Soybeans." What does = that phrase mean? I know that the crop must be soy beans, and Roundup is = an herbicide IIRC. But "Roundup Ready?" Sally Hi Sally, to see Monsanto's definition of "Roundup Ready", goto: http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/products/popups/roundup_ready.html Roundup ready means your soybeans can be sprayed with Roundup and they = are ready - ie, can handle it while the other weeds can't So that means that when the soybean field is spayed, the milkweed will = die, and all those monarchs worked so hard for naught. It may be a = lovely place to lay an egg, but certain death for the caterpillar. Sally ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01C2428E.61839DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
<MexicoDoug at aol.com> wrote=20 in message news:cf.1b528c5d.2a89af4d at aol.= com...
En un=20 mensaje con fecha 08/12/2002 2:55:53 PM Central Daylight Time,=20 SUNSOL at prodigy.net escribe:
The above website references "Roundup Ready Soybeans." = What does=20 that phrase mean? I know that the crop must be soy beans, and = Roundup is an=20 herbicide IIRC. But "Roundup Ready?" Sally


Hi Sally, to see Monsanto's definition of "Roundup = Ready",=20 = goto:
http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/products/popups/roundup_ready.h= tml

Roundup=20 ready means your soybeans can be sprayed with Roundup and they are = ready - ie,=20 can handle it while the other weeds can't
 
So that means that when the soybean field is spayed, the milkweed = will=20 die, and all those monarchs worked so hard for naught. It may be a = lovely=20 place to lay an egg, but certain death for the caterpillar.=20 Sally
------=_NextPart_000_007F_01C2428E.61839DC0-- ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From droberts03 at SNET.Net Tue Aug 13 07:14:24 2002 From: droberts03 at SNET.Net (Dale Roberts/Bill Yule) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:14:24 -0400 Subject: [leps-talk] Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: <027601c24221$dcc13a00$1ac93ccc@DaleRoberts> <3D57AD2A.3A73@saber.net> Message-ID: <011e01c242bd$b39788e0$f8c63ccc@DaleRoberts> The fact that Monarchs are able to survive and even thrive despite the massive disruptions of the "Industrialization of Agriculture" by government-financed/taxpayer-subsidized mega-corporate agribusinesses is a testimony to this amazing "gypsy" butterfly's ability to adapt to a wide range of disturbances that favor its hostplant. The oil, chemical and industrial agricultural business constellation get NO credit for the Monarchs success. The credit goes to the butterfly. Here in southern New England, where what few farms are left are small and somewhat diversified, the Monarch survives on the hostplant's ability to pop up in old fields, roadside ditches, suburban developments, the edges of landfills. Should we circulate pictures of ditches, suburbs and landfills now and trumpet their contribution to the health of the Monarch population? Tens of thousands, if not quite millions of Monarchs pass through southern Connecticut each fall without the benefit of agribusiness and industrial strength moncultures. The point of Nature Preserves is not to create a Milkweed monoculture for Monarchs. The point of Nature Preserves is to protect unique and unusual habitats and the biodiversity they support. Nobody thinks, as you suggest, that the millions of wintering Monarchs that end up in Mexico and California come exclusively from Nature Preserves. As to the suggestion that I'm putting words in your mouth. Nothing could be further from the facts. I simply reacted to an inflamatory (not to mention ridiculous) post of poltical propaganda that attempted to give credit to big business for the success of Monarch butterflies. The butterflies thrive despite agribusiness not because of it. Bill Yule----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Cherubini" To: "Dale Roberts/Bill Yule" Cc: ; ; Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [leps-talk] Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies providesuperb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat > Bill Yule wrote: > > > So if I understand your main point Monarchs are butterflies that have > > adapted to a hostplant that has adapted to open disturbed soil. And from > > this point, if I understand the implicit suggestion written between the > > lines of your post, I'm supposed to jump up and cheer for the chemical > > laden, single crop, Government-sponsored corporate welfare, big machinery > > dependent agri-business of growing corn to feed cows and soybeans to > > feed to pigs for the government welfare beef/pork industries? > > My point is to let people know where the masses of migrating > monarchs come from that appear each Sept / Oct. in the > midwestern states and at the overwintering sites in Mexico. > > Most fall migrating monarchs do not come from tracts of land set > aside as nature preserves. They come from the vast corn and > soybean crop monocultures found in the upper midwest which are > created and maintained with the products produced by big oil, > chemical, biotech and farm machinery companies. > > Paul Cherubini > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/CCYolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > TILS Motto: "We can not protect that which we do not know" ? 1999 > > Subscribe: TILS-leps-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com > Post message: TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com > Archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TILS-leps-talk/messages > Unsubscribe: TILS-leps-talk-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > For more information: http://www.tils-ttr.org > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnjjk1 at uaf.edu Tue Aug 13 14:25:18 2002 From: fnjjk1 at uaf.edu (James Kruse) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:25:18 -0900 Subject: butterfly art In-Reply-To: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A689@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: Greetings: A buddy of mine has some butterfly art. These pictures use wings only, rarely whole butterflies, set in various designs. If anyone knows values for this kind of stuff (there was a shop in CA that sold this kind of thing for $150-1500, largely size correlated if I remember correctly) write to me. If you'd like to see a couple pictures, let me know. Not my style, so maybe one of you has some experience with this. Jim -------- Jim, I was wondering if you could help me with something. I have been trying to find an appraiser for some pictures I came across. My parents used to have an import business about 15 years ago. I found some left over items in storage under a sink cabinet. These pictures are made completely of butterfly wings. The blue one is completely made of morphos. The others are variable. My dad got them in Brazil and in some cases even visited the home of the artists who made them. He said that they used to raise all the butterflies in their back yards under screen tents. some of the ones I have are absolutely phenomenal. James J. Kruse, Ph.D. Curator of Entomology University of Alaska Museum 907 Yukon Drive Fairbanks, AK, USA 99775-6960 tel 907.474.5579 fax 907.474.1987 http://www.uaf.edu/museum/ento -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020813/c07b5287/attachment.html From busstop.com at mindspring.com Tue Aug 13 14:32:22 2002 From: busstop.com at mindspring.com (Bus Goldberg) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:32:22 -0700 Subject: Swallowtail chrysalis's Message-ID: I have two Anise Swallowtail chrysalis's in my possession for the last two weeks. Does anybody know, how long does it take for the butterflies to emerge? ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rworth at oda.state.or.us Tue Aug 13 16:36:10 2002 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:36:10 -0700 Subject: Baits and traps for the tropics Message-ID: Hi all, I was hoping to get feedback regarding baits, either in traps or not, what works for you, have you used it in the tropics?, and what kinds of leps you get at them (moths included!). I know there are all the normal baits e.g. crap, fish bait, fruit, etc. but I would like to hear your short stories, nuances and secret recipes!! I'm going to Central America soon and am trying to decide what to use. Please post responses to either me, LEPS-L, and/or moth-rah lists. Thanks for any help. Happy trails, Rich Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 642 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020813/c5747e5a/attachment.bin From xiwang at sprint.ca Tue Aug 13 23:26:18 2002 From: xiwang at sprint.ca (Xi Wang) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:26:18 -0500 Subject: Swallowtail chrysalis's References: Message-ID: <3D59CDDA.7F58170D@sprint.ca> Hi, This depends on your latitude. If there's enough time for another generation, then they will emerge pretty soon, definitely within a few days, but if winter is approaching then they will probably overwinter, and emerge next spring. Cheers, Xi Wang Bus Goldberg wrote: > I have two Anise Swallowtail chrysalis's in my possession for the last two > weeks. Does anybody know, how long does it take for the butterflies to > emerge? ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 14 07:45:40 2002 From: neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:45:40 +0100 Subject: "Roundup Ready" References: , Message-ID: Mike Griggs wrote: > Doug while much of your discussion is good I must disagree with your > assertion that "Glyphosate is a probable carcinogen" > read the following lifted from EXTOXNET. > > On all fronts it appears pretty safe--check out how toxic table salt is > sometime! > > Mike You are missing something. Roundup is not purely Glyphosate. You cannot therefore extrapolate data from pure glyphosate and apply it to the who product. THere are other constituents too. I would agree that you are probably right, but you have failed to establish this. There are other problems. Glyphosate _MUST_ have some effect on the soil it is sprayed on. No question. Chemically it is N-phosphonomethylglycine. It blocks the action of a plant enzyme called 5-enolpyruvyl-3 shikimatephosphate synthase. This is an important enzyme in the pathway for the synthesis of aromatic amino acids. It doesn't occur in animals so there isn't a problem. It does occur in soil microorganisms so some of these must be affected. What exactly these effects are is difficult to work out, but they must be there. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jshuey at TNC.ORG Wed Aug 14 08:18:29 2002 From: jshuey at TNC.ORG (John Shuey) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:18:29 -0500 Subject: Baits and traps for the tropics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Richard - Here are two recipes - the first is mine, the second is from Mike McInnis. I'm headed to Belize soon so this has been on my mind as well. The only real secret that I have are to bring as many traps as you can make sure that they are always in use. Eventually, every trap you take will reward you with a species that otherwise would have been missed! Put them in light gaps or forest edges at two heights - about 1M off the ground and as high as you can get them. First - a fruit bait. (this is and excerpt from a paper I published a few years ago (Shuey, J. A. 1997. An optimized portable bait trap for quantitative sampling of butterflies. Tropical Lepidoptera 8(1): 1-4). The only thing you need to bring with you is a fresh packet of yeast and Tupperware. "Bait. Perhaps most critically, if catches between traps or trapping stations are to be consistent, the attractant must be likewise consistent. Butterflies are attracted to aromatic decomposition products from baits. If bait trapping is used as part of a quantitative sampling regime, the quality of bait used must be consistent throughout the sampling period as well as between sampling periods. I achieve this (as best as is possible) by using only fruit-based baits, and then I control the fermentation process to the greatest extent possible by following this bait recipe: 1) To a ? gallon (2L) container, add enough over-ripe plantains (1cm thick crosswise slices with the skin still on) to fill the container to the 0.5 level. Plantains decompose slowly and create a stable base to the bait that will last for over a week. 2) Fill the remainder of the container with ripe (not over-ripe) bananas sliced similarly. 3) Add two cups of unrefined (brown) sugar. 4) Add a spoonful of bakers yeast. 5) Add enough tap water to the container to bring the water level up to the 0.9 mark. Make sure that the water is not chlorinated, as this will kill the yeast or at least slow the fermentation reaction. 6) Cap the container, shake well until ingredients are well mixed, and allow to sit for 24 hours. After the initial fermentation period, the bait should smell very strongly of fruity alcohol and is ready to use. Because the nature of the bait changes with time, I keep a constant supply of fresh fermenting bait on hand. As I move my traps to new locations, I discard half of the old bait and refresh it with new bait to insure that the fermentation process has a constant supply of fruit and sugar upon which to work. In the tropics, never add processed fruit drinks or beer to baits as these usually have enough preservative in them to completely wipe out ongoing fermentation in the bait. This bait is very attractive, and I usually have interested butterflies circling the traps within the hour, sometimes in minutes. However, if there are abundant natural fruits fermenting in the immediate vicinity, no artificial bait is very productive. In these cases, trapping is not likely to be very worthwhile." ______________________________________ And here is the fish bait that people are talking about for hairstreaks and metalmarks: (Next month will be my first use of this particular bait). As to bait, I would slice up any species of whitefish about five days before you plan to bait. Put the slices 1" by 1.5? in a container that seals tightly (even with contents under pressure). Add water to equal to 75% of the volume of the fish in the container. Sit the container in the sun and relieve pressure daily. Make sure that you have a couple of layers to seal the container (I use wide-mouth carbonated beverage containers, tape, and then 2 layers of sealed plastic bags) when you fly. Also, take some fresh raw fish (the original batch will be shot in 3 to 4 days) to refresh your bait. (from Mike McInnis) I personally would not take this stuff on an airplane! John _________________ John Shuey Director of Conservation Science Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy -----Original Message----- From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Worth Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 2:36 PM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu; TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com; TILS-moth-rah at yahoogroups.com Subject: Baits and traps for the tropics Hi all, I was hoping to get feedback regarding baits, either in traps or not, what works for you, have you used it in the tropics?, and what kinds of leps you get at them (moths included!). I know there are all the normal baits e.g. crap, fish bait, fruit, etc. but I would like to hear your short stories, nuances and secret recipes!! I'm going to Central America soon and am trying to decide what to use. Please post responses to either me, LEPS-L, and/or moth-rah lists. Thanks for any help. Happy trails, Rich Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020814/6163bbe6/attachment.html From jhimmel at mindspring.com Wed Aug 14 09:40:00 2002 From: jhimmel at mindspring.com (jh) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:40:00 -0400 Subject: "Roundup Ready" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And let us not forget that glyphosate contains trace amounts of polygrypholite binding particles which break down into trimogriphying formucules. While in isolation this should not be a problem, when mixed with the sterabilating trabulaculytes it could fimulate the noonahs big time! How will this affect the Monarchs? Who knows. Sorry. John <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ -----Original Message----- From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu]On Behalf Of neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:46 AM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Subject: Re: "Roundup Ready" Mike Griggs wrote: > Doug while much of your discussion is good I must disagree with your > assertion that "Glyphosate is a probable carcinogen" > read the following lifted from EXTOXNET. > > On all fronts it appears pretty safe--check out how toxic table salt is > sometime! > > Mike You are missing something. Roundup is not purely Glyphosate. You cannot therefore extrapolate data from pure glyphosate and apply it to the who product. THere are other constituents too. I would agree that you are probably right, but you have failed to establish this. There are other problems. Glyphosate _MUST_ have some effect on the soil it is sprayed on. No question. Chemically it is N-phosphonomethylglycine. It blocks the action of a plant enzyme called 5-enolpyruvyl-3 shikimatephosphate synthase. This is an important enzyme in the pathway for the synthesis of aromatic amino acids. It doesn't occur in animals so there isn't a problem. It does occur in soil microorganisms so some of these must be affected. What exactly these effects are is difficult to work out, but they must be there. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us Wed Aug 14 10:03:31 2002 From: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us (Robert Dana) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:03:31 -0500 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat Message-ID: John is right on this--the milkweed plants under the corn are not seedlings. These are shoots from root fragments created by tillage. I don't know anything about how glyphosate affects common milkweed (A. syriaca), but if John is right in what he says about this, one could ask whether there will be much milkweed survival after a few years of treating the field. The idea that these "seedlings" will continue to be available from seed blown into the field doesn't hold up. It would take at least 2 growing seasons after germination for a plant to get large enough to support monarch development (even then, a single caterpillar would have to go through several plants to reach maturity). Because A. syriaca is strongly rhizomatous, colonies near the field edge will continue to extend rhizomes out into the field, but these won't get more than a few feet into the field. Robert p.s., John, the grass is probably giant foxtail, Setaria faberi. We don't see reed canary or orchard grass much in cultivated fields. ************************************************************* Robert Dana, Ph.D. MN DNR Natural Heritage and Nongame Research Program 500 Lafayette Rd, Box 25 St. Paul, MN 55155 651 297-2367 Email: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us ************************************************************* >>> "John Shuey" 8/12/02 5:32:24 PM >>> Now try and keep my story straight here - I've been talking from the first post about the corn - bean rotation and the impact roundup ready beans have on weeds. (and ultimately most cropland in this particular rotation) So I looked at the photo link and here is what I see: 1.. Its right on the edge of the field - you can actually see stuff that looks like dense reed canary or orchard grass one row to the left. 2.. The milkweed in the foreground is not a seedling - looks like 2 yr old nursery stock to me (which means that it is probably from a root fragment or a 3+year old seedling) 3.. Look at the soil - you can see it right?? This is not in conservation tillage but rather traditional plowed. I see no signs of soybean stubble (or any of last year's crop residue for that matter) indicating that it is not likely that this came out of recent roundup ready beans or herbicide resistant corn. In fact - it looks like a traditional field to me (I'd be trying to work with this farmer if he were practicing in Indiana to get better practices on the ground) So what you see is a very typical distortion from Paul. He takes one piece of information, builds on it, and then tries to defend the universe that he so loves. Here's what he initially said: So - you're telling me that a plant that often spends 2-4 years as a > "seedling" (4 or fewer leaves per plant and usually less than 6cm tall) > while it builds its root system, must manage to seed in at a density that > carpets the ground and supports monarch larvae (one mature caterpillar of > which would need to consume several of these tiny plants). The ground beneath the canopy of GMO corn and soybean plants, especially at the perimeter edges of the fields, rather frequently has almost a carpet of milkweed seedlings. In this picture http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cornmilkweed.jpg I put in arrows pointing to three milkweed seedlings, but there are actually many more seedlings in this photo that are difficult to see. So as a monarch caterpillar munches down one seedling it will just wander off and find another one in the immediate vicinity. > Paul- you're just making this stuff up aren't you? It's obvious that you > actually have no first hand experience with the plants or agricultural > systems that you are talking about, and that you are willing to extrapolate > wildly based on absolute and total ignorance. Stick to bullshitting your > California friends 'cuase us simply prairie folk don't buy into to your > stories. John, I am just reporting and expanding a bit on the findings of Iowa State Professor John Pleasants and his colleagues. THEY are the brilliant Ag school Ph.D's that know midwestern agroecosystems inside and out and deserve credit for enlightening us about the importance of agricultural habitats to monarch butterflies. As a matter of fact, two years ago I mistakenly argued here that milkweed was not common in corn and soybean fields because one does not see too many mature weeds of any kind growing in these fields. The fields appear weed free as in this picture http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanrr.jpg It is only when you go looking inside the canopy of these crop plants that you see the numerous milkweed seedlings like this one http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg Paul Cherubini ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 14 11:00:24 2002 From: neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:00:24 +0100 Subject: "Roundup Ready" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02081416002403.32758@nwjones.demon.co.uk> On Wednesday 14 August 2002 02:40 pm, jh wrote: > And let us not forget that glyphosate contains trace amounts of > polygrypholite binding particles which break down into trimogriphying > formucules. While in isolation this should not be a problem, when mixed > with the sterabilating trabulaculytes it could fimulate the noonahs big > time! > > How will this affect the Monarchs? Who knows. > > Sorry. > > John ROFL. Oh come on! it wasnt _that_ bad! :-) This is a scientific forum after all. It is only high school chemistry, or at least I would have thought so. If you are desirous of a superabundance of egregiously obfuscating, erudite, sesquipedalian, phraseology then I can do better than that! :-) Seriously though folks, we can reasonalble expect glyphosate to have an effect on soil microflora. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From woody.woods at umb.edu Wed Aug 14 11:11:56 2002 From: woody.woods at umb.edu (Woody Woods) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:11:56 -0400 Subject: Swallowtail chrysalis's In-Reply-To: <3D59CDDA.7F58170D@sprint.ca> Message-ID: One suggestion-- some species I have worked with are cued to enter diapause as pupae by short days encountered as 5th instars. I don't know how this species overwinters but if as pupae then their emergence may depend upon the light cycle to which they were exposed as larvae-- if they were outdoors you're likely OK. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* > From: Xi Wang > Organization: Sprint Canada Inc. > Reply-To: xwmonarch at hotmail.com > Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:26:18 -0500 > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: Re: Swallowtail chrysalis's > > Hi, > > This depends on your latitude. If there's enough time for another generation, > then they will emerge pretty soon, definitely within a few days, but if winter > is approaching then they will probably overwinter, and emerge next spring. > > Cheers, > Xi Wang > > Bus Goldberg wrote: > >> I have two Anise Swallowtail chrysalis's in my possession for the last two >> weeks. Does anybody know, how long does it take for the butterflies to >> emerge? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MexicoDoug at aol.com Thu Aug 15 01:43:55 2002 From: MexicoDoug at aol.com (MexicoDoug at aol.com) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:43:55 EDT Subject: "Roundup Ready" Message-ID: En un mensaje con fecha 08/14/2002 11:49:33 AM Central Daylight Time, MexicoDoug escribe: From: Mike Griggs (mhg3 at cornell.edu) > Doug while much of your discussion is good I must disagree with your > assertion that "Glyphosate is a probable carcinogen"read the following > lifted from EXTOXNET.On all fronts it appears pretty safe--check out how > toxic table salt is sometime!Mike_--- Thanks for the objection, Mike. Not being a wholesale subscriber to conspiracy theory of big companies, but simply a believer that we still live in a somewhat free and anarchistic world and need to make our own sense of it, I'll accept that Glyphosate is not any more harmful than other "X"icides that put food on the table for us members of the masses. Like Bruce Ames says, far more people will get a cancer for not eating enough vegetables, than those who will get cancers from any potential trace carcinogens that don't get removed from a quick washing of vegetables in the kitchen sink. And any 'unreasonable' regulation that increases consumer price of vegetables, thanks to good ol' supply and demand, is bound to leave more folks with cancer. I am sure Harvard's Medical School's Epidemiology gurus would agree that eating marginally tainted veggies on balance is better than cutting veggie consumption, to reduce long term cancers.. But: The comments about the impurities and even the active itself: I see on Greenpeace's website Neil's case, but I also notice that even Greenpeace comments that Monsanto, etc. have changed formulations to remove these problems. That doesn't leave a fuzzy feeling. Though it may be illogical, I am still afraid of handling Roundup, even in dilute forms spraying the weeds in the driveway cracks. I'd much rather have a cup of delicious known carnicogenic Sassafras tea. (No, not from sassy butterflies). By the way root beer is also traditionally made from Sassafras after the carcinigens are removed. Another double standard, but what else is new...by the way I just tried a traditional salsa made from the Mexican garden "Root Beer Plant", which might as well be made from sassafras. Delicious. I don't take your comment on table salt with a grain of salt! Best wishes...Doug Dawn Monterrey, Mexico -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020815/7a457571/attachment.html From hbrodkin at earthlink.net Thu Aug 15 13:25:28 2002 From: hbrodkin at earthlink.net (Hank Brodkin) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 10:25:28 -0700 Subject: Honduras Butterfly Site Message-ID: <002701c24480$c0783040$7a748144@theriver> Here is a site to add to your favorites: www.hondurasbutterfly.com Check it out! -------------------- Hank Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ hbrodkin at earthlink.net SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association (SEABA) http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" by Bob Stewart, Priscilla Brodkin and Hank Brodkin http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/book.html ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rworth at oda.state.or.us Thu Aug 15 13:57:12 2002 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 10:57:12 -0700 Subject: baits/Thanks Message-ID: Thanks to all who responded about the baits. There are some interesting nuances to the recipes. I look forward to trying many of these!!! Best, Rich Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Thu Aug 15 21:11:32 2002 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 20:11:32 -0500 Subject: Butterfly Explosion! Message-ID: <20020815.201135.-250157.1.mbpi@juno.com> Greetings, all! Today was rife with butterflies on the Chicago Museum Campus...despite the continuing construction mayhem. Peck's Skippers, Black Swallowtails, and others...and a proliferation of Hackberry butterflies...which I've never seen on the campus before this year! There is a row of Hackberry trees alongside the harbor roadway, where the majority of butterflies were hanging out...and attacking passersby. I also saw what looked like Hairstreaks in a picnic grove, but couldn't pin any of them down as I was in a hurry (and so were they...). I was on my way to my car to leave the campus for a meeting, so I wasn't able to spend a great deal of time searching the trees for other Hackberry species, but I hope to check out the area again tomorrow when I have more time... It seems the long-awaited rain we finally got was a major eclosing trigger. Maybe I'll find a Snout!!! All in all, it was quite a pleasant surprise to see so many butterfly species in my limited daily preambles. M.B. Prondzinski Chicago, IL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jadams at em.daltonstate.edu Fri Aug 16 13:28:01 2002 From: jadams at em.daltonstate.edu (Dr. James Adams) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:28:01 -0400 Subject: Talks and participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020816132342.00a05be0@em.daltonstate.edu> Hey everyone, Alright, you guys. For those of you who are not currently members of the Southern Lep Soc but would like to present a paper, we'd be happy to have you. For anyone who is a member, and has complained (and even if you haven't) that the SLS seems to be just a few of the same guys doing stuff year after year, here's your chance. I sent out one request earlier and I'm doing it again. The meeting this year is in Gainesville, FL, the weekend of September 20 - 22, 2002. I still need presenters!! Please send your titles and abstracts to me soon!! THanks! Sorry to sound a bit pushy, but, hey, I guess you need to be sometimes!! james James K. Adams Phone: (706)272-4427 FAX: (706)272-2235 Visit the Georgia Lepidoptera Website: www.daltonstate.edu/galeps/ Also check out the Southern Lepidopterists' Society new Website: www.southernlepsoc.org/ -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 From patfoley at csus.edu Fri Aug 16 17:03:34 2002 From: patfoley at csus.edu (Patrick Foley) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:03:34 -0700 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A671@hqmail.gensym.com> <3D56DD99.F53@saber.net> Message-ID: <3D5D68A6.6F44FE48@csus.edu> Hi Lepsters, I just got back from fieldwork in the Yucatan, and I can see that here in the USA our brains are spinning along just as merrily as ever. Although I hate to spoil the brainless fun, it is worth remembering that Monarchs are just one species of animal. Thousands of animals and plants are not generalist exploiters of disturbed habitats, and they might have voted for something other than the conversion of the NA Midwest to corn fields. But you knew that already, right? As ever, Patrick patfoley at csus.edu Paul Cherubini wrote: > The most concentrated summer monarch breeding populations > in the world exist in the upper midwestern USA. In particular, > Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa, have a great abundance of > monarchs in the summer. > > Just where do these monarchs breed? According to Iowa State > entomologists It turns out most of them breed on milkweed plants > growing WITHIN the canopy of crop monocultures such as corn and > soybeans I got to see this first hand during a visit to the area of > Morris, Minnesota on July 28 - Aug. 1 > > As you view the following pictures, bear in mind: > > a) Monsanto and Dupont provided the crop seeds and herbicides > that help the crop to flourish > > b) John Deere tractors provided the machinery to prepare the soil and > harvest the crops > > c) Big oil companies provided the gasoline and oil run the tractors and > harvesters. > > d) Chemical companies provided the nitrogen fertilizer required to > help the crops flourish. > > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanrr.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrrflower.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeansrreggs.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/soybeanfemale3.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/morrismating.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/cornmilkweed.jpg > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/morris.jpg > > If you're wondering just what makes these crop monocultures > such great monarch breeding habitat well its because: > > 1. A reduced abundance and diversity of monarch egg and > caterpillar parasites and predators exists WITHIN the monoculture > crop canopy. > > 2. The rich, fertile, well aerated soil and crop irrigation water > promotes the survival and growth of milkweed seedlings. Tender > and well watered milkweed seedlings promote the production of big, > vigorous monarch caterpillars and butterflies. > > 3. Red Clover and Alfalfa crops (livestock feed) commonly planted > in the same region or on the borders of the crops provide a rich, > abundant nectar source for monarch and other butterflies. > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/tigeralfalfa.jpg > > Paul Cherubini > Placerville, Calif. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Aug 16 17:50:18 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:50:18 -0400 Subject: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat References: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A671@hqmail.gensym.com> <3D56DD99.F53@saber.net> <3D5D68A6.6F44FE48@csus.edu> Message-ID: <007f01c2456e$e9c4c0a0$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Foley" To: Cc: ; Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 5:03 PM Subject: Re: Big Oil, Chemical & Farm Machinery companies provide superb Monarch Butterfly Breeding Habitat > Hi Lepsters, > > I just got back from fieldwork in the Yucatan, and I can see that here in > the USA our brains are spinning along just as merrily as ever. > > Although I hate to spoil the brainless fun, it is worth remembering that > Monarchs are just one species of animal. Thousands of animals and plants > are not generalist exploiters of disturbed habitats, and they might have > voted for something other than the conversion of the NA Midwest to corn > fields. > > But you knew that already, right? Just ask Satyrodes eurydice fumosa, Euphyes bimacula illinois, Hesperia dacotae, Boloria slene nebraskensis, and Speyeria idalia. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Sat Aug 17 01:42:10 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:42:10 -0400 Subject: Rocky Mountain High - Part 7 Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A6BA@hqmail.gensym.com> When we started on our long drive back to California on Wednesday, July 31, we took our sweet time in leaving. This significantly shortened our day, as we knew we would be spending the peak of the day doing more high altitude acrobatics. We decided to stick with Highway 50, and made it to the top of Monarch Pass by 9:30 a.m. The thunderheads were looming again, so we got right to work. There weren't too many decent places to go directly from the pass, so we drove back a ways to the east and found some interesting Forest Service roads to explore. We parked at one particularly nice vista, and decided to put on our hiking boots. As we were slipping them on, I noted a fast flying Black Swallowtail zip past me and head for the rising slope in front of me. It seemed to disappear in one of the tall pine trees that grew from the 60 degree slope. I commented about this to Christian, who seemed to be disinterested and in a daze (he's really not a morning person). At long last, I decided to pursue the Swallowtail. This required scaling the steep barren slope, a task that proved to be a lot harder than it looked. When I finally reached the base of the pine tree where I had seen the butterfly disappear, I was a good 100 feet above the vehicle below. The footing was soft, and it was all I could do to lean forward and hold out my net towards the tree. As I did this, to my surprise, the resting butterfly suddenly flew from its hidden resting spot and started to float up and away. I made one of those most miraculous swings - the ones that seem too few and far between - and as I was falling backwards, I felt the soft tug on my net that told me that the bug was in the bag. What followed was not pretty. I tumbled in the direction that gravity preferred, and essentially ski'd (how do you spell that word?) my way down the hill in a most ungraceful fashion. As I returned to the road, I was shocked to find my net bag flipped over, still possessing the gorgeous Papilio. I'm sure this is polyxenes, but wow - at 11,000 feet! This was the coolest bug I would see this day, so my jewel was in the bag before I had even started. We climbed one of the nearby peaks, which proved pretty exhilarating, even if the leps didn't make much of a showing. We did see the usual suspects, including Colias meadii (Mead's Sulphur), Agriades glandon (Arctic Blue), Parnassius smintheus (Rocky Mountain Parnassian), Speyeria mormonia (Mormon Fritillary), Boloria chariclea (Arctic Fritillary), and Erebia callias (Colorado Alpine). The wind started blowing pretty hard, and by 12:30 we decided to start heading farther west. We stopped again down in the valley along Tomichi Creek. This sits below 9000 feet, and soon we began seeing an occasional larger Speyeria. We also found an adorable water snake, no longer than 8 inches, and Christian decided it was more enjoyable than swinging a butterfly net. The two of them became quick friends. We didn't stop here for long, but managed to find a few interesting species - including Plebejus icarioides (Boisduval's Blue), Polites sonora (Sonora Skipper), and Hemiargus isola (Reakirt's Blue). I haven't id'd the Speyeria yet. We then drove through Gunnison, Colorado, and headed past Blue Mesa Reservoir. We hunted awhile along the creek that flows into Blue Creek at Halfway House. This also turned out to be a productive stop, with lots of Speyeria on the wing. We found Speyeria cybele (Great Spangled Fritillary), Speyeria coronis (Coronis Fritillary), Speyeria hesperis/atlantis?, Papilio rutulus (Western Tiger Swallowtail), Pieris marginalis (Veined White), Colias alexandra (Alexandra's Sulphur), Lycaena rubidus (Ruddy Copper), Satyrium titus (Coral Hairstreak), Polygonia gracilis (Hoary Comma), and Cercyonis oetus (Small Wood Nymph). The cybele were particularly beautiful. From MWalker at gensym.com Sat Aug 17 03:56:23 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 03:56:23 -0400 Subject: Rocky Mountain High - Part 8 Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A6BD@hqmail.gensym.com> We woke up refreshed in Ouray, and opened the door of our hotel in anticipation. To my dismay, the sky was bleak and overcast. All I could do was hope that this would clear up by the time we reached the high country. Highway 550 heads south from Ouray, and drives over three high mountain passes before it reaches the Wild West town of Durango, Colorado. From any one of these, there are a myriad of jeep trails that can take you even higher. The first pass is Red Pass, and is only a short drive from Ouray. The closer we got to the pass, the worse things became. By the time we arrived on top, the temps had dropped below 60 degrees F. and the rain started to fall. I was flabbergasted. The scenery up there is fantastic. The peaks are not any higher than the other places we'd visited, but they are seemingly more jagged and ominous looking. It's perhaps a bit of a surprise that southwestern Colorado has such spectacular high country, but then the Continental Divide carves a most bizarre and zig-zagging path through the state of Colorado. All the maps from our U.S. History classes don't do the Rocky Mountains justice - simply showing them as a ridge of mountains that run on a slight diagonal through the middle of the country. Instead, they are like a jumbled hodge podge of jagged peaks and glaciated ridges - all pushed and folded together as if part of a huge train wreck. You could spend a lifetime butterflying these mountains - and you still wouldn't have it covered. As a result, there are few places where you can cover a lot of different ground in just a few hours. Red Pass is one of them. It's especially painful when you've come all this way only to find that the few hours you've set aside to spend here coincide with a timely blast of weather from the monsoons brewing in Arizona and Mexico. I parked the rental near an alpine tarn, and convinced my son to get out and walk with me in the rain. We scoured the nearby meadow, spooking a few S. mormonia, but seeing nothing else. I sighed and looked about me, realizing that my joy had become way too dependant on success. What an incredible place to be so blessed to be alive! How had I gotten to the place where such an experience could be disappointing? I remember a time when raindrops falling amid the smells and sounds of 12,000 ft. alpine terrain was as good as it got. We stood in the rain for a while before I decided to start the long haul towards the Four Corners region. Perhaps we should do a little sightseeing instead, and just forget about butterflies for awhile. Well, as you can imagine, this is a lot easier said than done for the field lepidopterist. We did actually see an occasional flyer as we drove past Silverton and then Durango. By the time we got to the Mesa Verde turnoff, all hopes for leps were dashed for good. The skies remained oppressive. By the time we got to Cortez, it was only 11:00 a.m. We were already just a few dozen miles from the Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah border, and the day hadn't even started yet! We couldn't throw the towel in yet - there must be something lep related that we could do to kill a few hours! But what? And then I saw them - the high reaching mountains that poked their way up from the desert floor just to the west of us. I noted that they were tall - easily 10,000 feet or more - and covered at their tips by juniper and pine. The habitat called out to me - sort of a mixture of scrub oak and pine forest, and clearly separated from any of the other mountains ranges to the east. The highest peak stood out, and looked as it deserved a name of its own. I would have to remember to check the map later to find out what it was called. In the meantime, I convinced my son that we should attempt to find a road that reached into these enchanting mountains. To my delight, we quickly found such a road. It was all dirt, as was expected, but well graded and easy to drive. As we got up higher we had to make a few decisions, as the road split off in many directions. We drove through a flattened area, and Christian pointed out that there were many abandoned and primitive dwellings hidden among the oaks - dwellings made of twigs and branches. Curious - but then we knew we were in American Indian country, and marveled at the evidence of their habitation. As I navigated the maze of roads, Christian then pointed out what he thought looked like an Indian burial ground - complete with elevated racks made of logs. I agreed, but thought to myself that he obviously had been watching too much television. By now, I had my sites set on one of the taller peaks - one that had a visible transmission tower on top, and clearly the destination of one of the many road branches. I decided to keep going. As we wound ever higher, the driving quickly became more difficult. I began to regret this decision, as the hours began racking up and the tower remained out of reach. I could tell my son was getting fidgety, too, but he held back any explicit opposition. Up and up we went, the road forever getting narrower, steeper, and rockier. When we wound around what we were sure had to be the last switchback, the road turned onto a steep hill that led to the tower standing 300 feet above us. My son was quite pleased when I decided to stop the vehicle. There was no need for me to attempt scaling the hill in front of me - especially when we could both clearly see a pickup truck parked on top. We would just stop here, have a quick look around at the panoramic 360 degree view, and be swiftly on our way. "There's a man up there, too", my son informed me. I looked, and sure enough - not only was there a man up there, but he appeared to be staring directly at us. I decided to ignore him, and continued to have a look at the vistas all around us. I encouraged my son to do the same. Before we knew it, the pickup truck had been driven all the way down the slope and was pulling up in front of us. I immediately noticed the uniform AND the gun, and made an attempt at a weak smile. The stern looking gentlemen then said coldly, "Do you have a permit?". "No, actually I didn't know I needed a permit", I replied, clearly thinking the question was somehow lep related. "You are on an Indian Reservation. You are not allowed here", he said. "Really? Wow, I'm sorry, I had no idea - I saw no signs...", I spoke truthfully, though it should have been obvious. Even my roadmap would have told me that. The man, a wildlife official for the local reservation, promptly requested my drivers license. As he radioed the info, I returned to my son, who nudged his head in the direction of our vehicle. When I turned to look, I was horrified to see my right rear tire as flat as a pancake. Oh my gosh - was I ever in a fix. The ranger soon emerged from his truck, asking me what I was doing up there. I told him we were just scoping it out and that we meant no harm. And then I pointed at my tire. "Uh, my tire..." "I know", he said, with a smirk. "I noticed it right away". Sheesh. How delightful. Stuck on this mountain, miles from nowhere, and we had no idea how to get to the jack - no idea even where the spare tire might be found. Here we were, at gunpoint and minutes away from being driven down the mountain chained in the back of a pickup. "Don't worry", he told me with a smirk, "We'll be glad to tow you down". "I'll bet you would", I thought to myself. As it turns out, we were on "Ute Mountain", an ancient and conspicuous mountain after which the "Ute Mountain Indian Tribe" has been so aptly and imaginatively named. Great. Not only were we trespassing on Indian lands, we were thoughtlessly recreating all over the very mountain this people felt so fondly of they named their whole tribe after it! The sooner we got off this mountain the better! Unfortunately, our tire wasn't cooperating. It turns out that our Ute Mountain wildlife official (and tribesmember), George Wells, Jr., actually helped us replace the tire. This was a task that took all three of us and resulted in the emptying of our personal effects all across the highest reaches of the Ute Mountains in order to access the jack and spare. I'm sure that George was convinced he was dealing with an absolute idiot. I didn't argue (and, curiously, neither did my son). When we finally got the poor-excuse-for-a-spare tire mounted on, George recommended that we start driving down the mountain - and that we keep it slow. He also insisted on following us down. This made us nervous, contemplating all the possible consequences of our obnoxious intrusion. It turns out we had irreverently wandered right through both the Ute Mountain Indian Tribe Sacred Festival and Burial Grounds, an offense that was surely as offensive as any. Thankfully, his insisting on following us turned out to be a gesture of compassion rather than one of law enforcement. He waved goodbye and smiled as we finally made it back to hard pavement, no ticket or citation issued. George Wells Jr. was truly a gem, and I would feel especially indebted to him when I found out from the Goodyear mechanic in Cortez that his friend had a vastly different experience. "Ute Mountain?", he asked in astonishment, "How did you get up there?". "I just drove", I replied. Apparently he had a friend who was badly beaten by several tribesmen who caught him sneaking onto Ute Mountain with a fishing pole. I could only imagine how I might have been dealt with had I been found by the same angry mob swinging a butterfly net. By the time we got back on the road it was already 4:00 p.m. We had somehow managed to waste five hours on this adventure. And, you'll be pleased to note, I never saw a single butterfly! It was a long time before the silhouette of Ute Mountain would fade from my rear view mirror. Sacred mountain of the Ute Mountain Indian Tribe! Perhaps someday someone will actually sample the insect fauna on this mountain. For now, at least, I'm comfortable with the notion that this won't likely be me. Mark Walker. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020817/f37193d1/attachment.html From neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 17 05:54:26 2002 From: neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:54:26 +0100 Subject: Mystery caterpillar - what is it or where can I find out? References: Message-ID: Jay Linn wrote: > Greetings, > > I found an unfeasibly large caterpillar in my garden in the UK > midlands yesterday evening [1], and I have been trying without success to > find a pictorial guide to caterpillars on the net. There are plenty of > butterfly and moth resources, but not a lot relating to caterpillars. Is > there somewhere I should be looking? Or should I post a (poor) picture of > the caterpillar somewhere for experts here to look at? > > Thanks in advance. > > [1] I might as well tell you about it, since I'm here - found in > undergrowth by my cat, the caterpillar was ~50mm long, with a body 7-8mm > in diameter, rising to 9-11mm at the head. A very fat caterpillar! Mostly > brown/black, with two prominent eyespots to the rear of the bulbous head, > and two further, smaller, eyespots a little further back still. Distinct > horn or spike at the upper tail. Beige mouthparts clearly visible, > seemingly with six "jaws". Velvety to the touch. Possibly feeding on dock? > > -- > Jay Linn > > "What bliss was it in that dawn to be alive, > But to be young was very heaven" I somehow had a feeling what this was before I even saw your description. I am frequently brought these things because they are so odd looking. I think you have an Elephant Hawk moth caterpillar (Deilephila elpenor). It is so called because of the way in which it can stick its head out on what looks a bit like an elephants trunk.. The moth is a beautiful pink colour. Yes, a pink elephant! :-) . It is this colour and shape to mimic a small snake and frighten off predators. There is a picture on this page. http://members.lycos.co.uk/nigelblake2/web2/insects/insects.htm This caterpillar norally eats willowherb and I think it will take bedstraws too. It also eats fuchsias in gardens sometimes and possibly if I recall correctly Impatiens. There is also a Small Elephant Hawkmoth with a similar caterpillar but this is not nearly so common. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mothman at nbnet.nb.ca Sat Aug 17 19:22:11 2002 From: mothman at nbnet.nb.ca (Tony Thomas) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 20:22:11 -0300 Subject: Moth Diversity Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020817195208.00a01930@pop.nbnet.nb.ca> Hi Lepslisters: Copies of my second publication on moth diversity are now available: Thomas, A.W. 2002. Moth Diversity in a Northeastern North American Red Spruce Forest. II. The Effect of Silvicultural Practices on Geometrid Diversity (Lepidoptera: Geometridae). Natural Resources Canada, Canadian Forest Service - Atlantic Forestry Centre, Information Report M-X-213E. Fredericton, New Brunswick. 25 p. includes 10 tables, 5 figures, 7 images of live geometrids, and an appendix listing the 169 species and their occurrences in 8 traps in 4 forest plots near Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada. Copies of the first publication: "I. Baseline Study", Thomas, A.W. 2001" are also availble. If interested, send mailing address and indicate which copy(ies) you would like. Single copies of each are free. Tony ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Sun Aug 18 01:07:39 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 01:07:39 -0400 Subject: [leps-talk] Rocky Mountain High - Part 8 Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A6C6@hqmail.gensym.com> Martin Bailey shared the following with me in a private conversation regarding my recent experience on Ute Mountain. I'm copying the lists here with a partial response for clarification. > It would be my impression from what you wrote that you were being escorted > out because you were not in a vehicle suitable for the road conditions. I'm sure the escort was on account of the unsuitability of my vehicle - especially in light of the 5 MPH spare tire and my obvious cluelessness };>) The asking to leave, on the other hand, was strictly based on a lack of permission. As I said, George turned out to be a real gem. His helpfulness was much appreciated. But I was not supposed to be there, and he saw to it that I wasn't. Mark. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From legitintellexit at earthlink.net Sun Aug 18 14:31:10 2002 From: legitintellexit at earthlink.net (Charles Bordelon) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 13:31:10 -0500 Subject: [leps-talk] Rocky Mountain High - Part 7 References: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A6BA@hqmail.gensym.com> <1029567622.3d5df486c4b95@mail.tils-ttr.org> Message-ID: <00ab01c246e5$6ddc3b80$2e343b41@DESKTOP> I agree; I'm just wondering when we get to the denoumont... cb ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Parcelles, Jr." To: "Mark Walker" Cc: ; "'lepstalk'" ; Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [leps-talk] Rocky Mountain High - Part 7 > Greetings:) > > I hope all of you enjoy mark's leps adventures as much as I do. He is a great > writer and a hardy butterfly adventuer. Moreover the last few days have had him > with his son. If ind this delightful. Here is what it is all about. > > The family that nets together, gets together. :) > > Bob > > Quoting Mark Walker : > > > > > > > > > > > When we started on our long drive back to California on Wednesday, July 31, > > > > we took our sweet time in leaving. This significantly shortened our day, as > > > > we knew we would be spending the peak of the day doing more high altitude > > > > acrobatics. We decided to stick with Highway 50, and made it to the top of > > > > Monarch Pass by 9:30 a.m. The thunderheads were looming again, so we got > right to work. > ------------------------------------SNIP---------------------------------- ----- > > -- > Robert James Parcelles, Jr. > Biologist/Owner > 'Specializing in Aquatic Ecosystems' > RJP Associates > Pinellas Park, FL 33782 > (727) 548-9775 > (888) 257-3077 PIN # 3711 > http://RJP.eboard.com > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TILS-LEPS-TALK > http://www.tils-ttr.org [The International Lepidoptera Survey} > "Ecology is the Economics of nature; Economics is the Ecology of man" > ...Dr. Marston Bates, _The Forest and the Sea_, 1962. > ############################################################################ #### > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/CCYolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > TILS Motto: "We can not protect that which we do not know" ? 1999 > > Subscribe: TILS-leps-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com > Post message: TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com > Archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TILS-leps-talk/messages > Unsubscribe: TILS-leps-talk-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > For more information: http://www.tils-ttr.org > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Sun Aug 18 17:44:24 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:44:24 -0400 Subject: Rocky Mountain High - The End Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A6CC@hqmail.gensym.com> Ken Davenport commented on my less than successful 2nd-to-the-last vacation day, and asked if that was the way my vacation could possibly end. Sadly, many of my adventures do end just like that - though I haven't actually ended up in jail yet (well, not since I was 16 - but that's a story better suited for an evening around Leroy's moth sheet). God is good, and though I needed a little humbling, it would turn out in the end that this Rocky Mountain High adventure was not going to end on such a frustrating note. In fact, I had no idea what fantastic surprises lied just hours ahead. We stayed in Gallup, New Mexico on Thursday, arriving very late - but not too late to enjoy a much needed limeade from Sonic. Now this is true refreshment. Too bad we don't have any Sonics in California. On Friday, August 2, we awoke to dismal weather - and the rain followed us all the way into Arizona. Our destination for the evening was Tucson, where we were planning on hooking up with Bill Mooney to do some twilight lepping (it's moth season in SE Arizona). As always, I chose as roundabout a driving plan as I could muster. No sense in sticking to the highway - it's always better to choose a road less traveled (now where I have heard that before...). We drove south on highway 191 to Eager, Arizona, and then west to Hon Dah. I was pleased to see very little evidence of the fires that were still burning. There was plenty of pristine mountain habitat to explore, but the rain kept pouring. There would be no lepping in the White Mountains of Arizona on this day. We cut south through the Fort Apache Indian Reservation, but I refrained from doing any trespassing. I'm encouraged by all the prime insect habitat that remains locked up on Indian lands, but truly wish that I could explore it more freely. And then there is the whole Indian gambling thing - a wonderful economic boost, I'm sure, but the explosion in development it promotes is more than a little depressing to a nature boy. Even here in my home of Oceanside we're being inundated. Too bad we can't think of a more natural way for Indian Reservations to generate much needed revenue - like harvesting peyote or something (hey - it works in Columbia). Just kidding. Really. So we drove on, south on highway 60 - with Christian sleeping most of the way. You'd think I'd been overworking the poor lad, the way he sleeps all day. It must be a teenager thing. I guess he's saving up his energy for the X-games or something. He missed the whole Salt River Canyon excursion, which is quite a spectacular drive. The descent is rapid, and the scenery most Arizona-like. It was an unexpected surprise. I tried to wake him, to no avail. As we ascended the opposite side we transcended between the Fort Apache Reservation to the San Carlos Apache Reservation. Wow - how I'd like to spend a week hiking around this country. At this point, I was pleased to see that we were skirting the edge of public lands - the eastern boundary of the Tonto National Forest. I was also ecstatic to see patches of sunlight busting through the cloud cover. It was good to see the sun - I hadn't enjoyed it since my evening in Ouray. We decided (well, actually Christian was still sleeping) to stop and have a look around. To my surprise, we found a good number of species on the wing. One of the most abundant was Mitoura siva (Siva Hairstreak). With juniper abounding, the butterfly could readily be found at nectar. There was little nectar to be found, but where it existed, so did the Hairstreak. Other butterflies included Adelpha bredowii eulalia (Arizona Sister), Amblyscirtes aenus (Aenus Skipper), Thorybes pylades (Northern Cloudywing), Atrytonopsis lunus (Lunus Skipper), and Staphylus ceos (Ceos Skipper). But the weather didn't hold long, and soon we were on our way to Oracle. We decided to meet Bill and friends directly in the field at Pena Blanca. By the time we reached Nogales, Arizona, the monsoons were in full swing. The skies were black, and lightening was striking all around us. We wondered if our evening might not get cut short on account of flash flooding. We met Bill and Jim Mouw at the campground at Pena Blanca, and to our surprise the rain had stopped and remained stopped the remainder of the evening. This was my first time in this region, though I've long heard about it in Lep lore. I was surprised at how much oak there was - and at how fast it was recovering from the recent drought. The oak trees were busting out with new greenery, sending out subtle invitations to the many insect consumers who favor oak woodland and its canopy. Bill is passionate about his work. It's always recommended that you hang out with people who have a passion for what they do. It makes sharing adventures with them far more interesting as well as rewarding. He and Jim had already squared off three separate lighting locations in and around the campground. We saw plenty of evidence that this was a favored lighting spot, including many dozens of Automeris cecrops pamina still clinging to low hanging branches. For those who don't know, these are just one of the many showy Saturniid moths that might show up at lights in southern Arizona. The set up time for a night at the sheet can be greatly minimized through proper organization and equipment preparation. Bill and Jim have it down to a science. In just minutes we had three separate rigs erected, generators primed, and camp chairs positioned for the upcoming show. Just after dusk the excitement began. Slowly at first, and then ever-increasing in frequency, the moths came. Moths at the sheet, moths in your face, moths in your ears, moths in your envelopes - the moths were everywhere. Big ones, little ones, fat ones, skinny ones - and the whole time Bill is conducting with his syringe-filled hands as if the whole thing were a choreographed rock opera. My mouth remained open, my jaw to the dust - which isn't recommended when mothing at Pena Blanca. I ate my share of moths that night - and found them a little too powdery and scaly for my liking. Of course, it wasn't hectic enough that we had literally hundreds and thousands of moths to deal with all at once at the sheet - we had three sheets to deal with, all outside of walking distance from each other. This would require hourly shuttling back and forth, with each trip resulting in more and more moths gaining permanent access to the minivan. Even this shuttling about wasn't enough, as Bill purposefully placed one of his rigs on the top of a treacherous hillside that was covered with "wait-a-minute" bush (remember these? They are butterfly friendly). There was only one trail up that hill - and that was blazed straight up the side of it. I thought I caught Bill snickering under his breath on one of our many ascents up that hill as I lunged forward, gasping for air, only to have pieces of flesh torn out by the thorny underbrush. Oh! That wasn't Bill snickering - that was my son! Smart aleck. By the way, that's another thing that is not recommended. Gasping for air at a moth sheet in Pena Blanca. You get way more than air that way. Of course, every time we ascended that hill we found the sheet covered with moths. Our ritual would include a good combing of the assembled audience in the hopes of finding something new. Bill maintains very thorough records from his frequent visits to various moth sites in Arizona. He knows that Pena Blanca is among the best locations for diversity. His personal records for species counts have been phenomenal, with something like 9 different Saturniids and 19 different Sphingids in a single night. Before this night was over (which was well after 4:00 a.m.), we managed to pull in 8 different Saturniids and 17 different Sphingids. One shy of each record. Not bad for my first experience at Pena Blanca. Another thing worth mentioning is that Pena Blanca is so well known among entomologists and hobbyists, that on any given night you are bound to have like-minded visitors who'll come and share in fellowship around your photon-generators. This night was no exception. A vacationing beetle enthusiast from Redding, California shared our sheets for a couple of hours, as did a professor from Tucson. Later in the evening, a butterfly dealer from SW Florida stopped by in fascination (touting several captured Tarantula's). He was also vacationing, and not involved in any commercial activity, but rather enjoyed exploring southwestern deserts looking for strange creatures. He took my son out a little later to look for scorpions - apparently they glow under a black light - and later managed to talk my son into taking home a Tarantula. Great - first Slim the Snake, and now Hairy Larry. My wife will be soooo pleased. Poor Christian didn't make it past 3:00 a.m. The moths were still coming in like flies (?) when we decided to shut it all down at 4:00 a.m. Even in our final round, we managed to pick up a new species for the evening. We took everything down in record time, and by 5:00 a.m. we were back to Bill's house to crash for a few hours. Us daytime leppers ain't got nothing on these nocturnal folks. Yeah - we may run around a lot flailing our arms and pretending to break a sweat - but these people are just downright insane. To bed at 5:00 a.m.? And back at it again the following evening? Sheesh. This is the real Iron Man contest. So on Saturday, August 3, my son and I headed west in the final leg of our trip. The Rocky Mountain High trip was finally coming to a close, and the two of us felt like we REALLY needed a vacation now. But what a way to finish it off! I will not soon forget my eventful evening with friends at Pena Blanca, nor will I soon get around to mounting all of the really cool moths that I took! Sheesh - when will winter arrive? Mark Walker. ps: do you have any idea how fast your Cornell drawers fill up with SE Arizona Sphingids and Saturniids? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020818/370c57c4/attachment.html From MWalker at gensym.com Sun Aug 18 17:51:43 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:51:43 -0400 Subject: Rocky Mountain High - The End (plus list) Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A6CD@hqmail.gensym.com> Duh. Here are the Sphingid and Saturniid species we enjoyed (and Bill recorded): Saturnids Automeris cecrops pamina Automeris iris hesselorum Eacles oslari--(Western Imperial) Citheronia splendons-(Mexican Walnut moth) Sphingicampa hubbardi Anisota oslari Sphingicampa montana Rothschildia cincta ----------------------------- Sphingids S. chersis H. lineata X. falco M. florestan E. achemon S. dollii C. sonorensis M. rustica S. smithi M. sexta M. quinquemaculata E. satellitia--THE HOT ONE! E. typhon E. ello P. occidentalis M. muscosa E. obscura AND, 7 Black Witches ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From erunquist at hotmail.com Mon Aug 19 21:15:37 2002 From: erunquist at hotmail.com (Erik Runquist) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:15:37 -0700 Subject: Fwd: Welcome to NorWestLeps Message-ID: Hi, For anyone interested in further cluttering their Inbox with Lep related emails may want to subscribe to the new NorWestLeps chat list through Yahoo. See the synopsis below... You can subscribe by sending a message to: NorWestLeps-subscribe at yahoogroups.com Once you are subscribed, email to: NorWestLeps at yahoogroups.com Cheers, Erik >Welcome to Northwest Leps! Northwest Leps is a list for the >discussion of >wild butterflies and moths in Northern California, >Oregon,and Washington. > >Field reports, notices of upcoming trips, gleanings from the >literature, >and identification help are all welcome subjects for the >list, and beginners and experts are all welcome. > >Conservation issues specifically pertaining to butterflies and moths >are >also OK. > >The collecting/anti-collecting debate is not allowed, nor are posts of > >images or other binary files (use the Photos section.) > >The boundary between Northern and Southern California is left > >intentionally vague, but please see the SoWestLep list for real >southern California discussion. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rob at whiterabbits.com Mon Aug 19 22:07:02 2002 From: rob at whiterabbits.com (Rob McNair-Huff) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:07:02 -0700 Subject: Article about The Butterflies of Cascadia Message-ID: <20020820020702.15999@mail.whiterabbits.com> An article ran in today's The News Tribune in Tacoma, Wash., about Robert Michael Pyle's latest guidebook, "The Butterflies of Cascadia." This may give some idea of how the book is being received here in Cascadia. So far I find it a great resource! -- Rob McNair-Huff White Rabbit Publishing Publisher of Mac Net Journal The Equinox Project Co-author of Insiders Guide to the Olympic Peninsula ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From xiwang at sprint.ca Thu Aug 22 00:21:10 2002 From: xiwang at sprint.ca (Xi Wang) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:21:10 -0500 Subject: Total Novice Covets Polyphemus References: Message-ID: <3D6466B6.CD44F5C0@sprint.ca> Hi Duane, Actually, what you have is not a polyphemus, but a promethea moth. http://www.npsc.nbs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/md/964.htm Notice the eye spot near the tip of the wings in your photo, which is not present in polyphemus. As for your queries, yes, silkmoths are actually one of the easiest and most enjoyable to raise in my opinion. I'm not sure if now would be a good time to raise them since I don't know what the weather is like at your locality, but it probably wouldn't be a good idea. Since winter is fast approaching, any eggs you obtain now would likely run out of food during the middle of their development...unless you've a greenhouse. It would be best to acquire the eggs in the spring, i.e. May-June. Here's are some nice sources for info/supplies: http://members.aol.com/mothsrus/mikemot1.htm http://www3.pei.sympatico.ca/~david.fraser/supplies.htm Hope I have been of some assistance. Cheers, Xi Wang Duane wrote: > Greetings, all. > > I was fortunate enough to happen across this little fellow while I was > leaving my apartment last week... > > http://www.photosig.com/viewphoto.php?id=209337 > > I'm not sure what sort of moth he is, but seeing him has really filled > me with the urge to dabble in raising moths. I live in Maryland, so I > checked around to see what sorts of moths are "local". It would > appear that the Polyphemus is onoe of Maryland's moths... > > http://www.npsc.nbs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/md/955.htm > > I have a few questions, and I hope that the veterans of the group will > indulge me. > > [1] Is it reasonable for a novice to expect to be able to raise > Polyphemus? If not, would I have an easier (and thus more enjoyable) > time starting off with an "easier" variety? > > [2] Can Polyphemus be raised in August and September? I'd be raising > them indoors. > > [3] I haven't had any luck finding a source online for eggs or > livestock. Might someone be able to point me in the right direction? > > Thank you in advance for your consideration. > > Regards, > Duane Roelands ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Thu Aug 22 01:45:23 2002 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:45:23 -0700 Subject: Total Novice Covets Polyphemus References: <3D6466B6.CD44F5C0@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <3D647A73.89B6CCE9@extremezone.com> I don't recall having seen the original message that prompted this response. In the last few days, has there been any Leps-L messages besides this one? My internet provider recently installed software to screen SPAM and there is always the danger it will bar legitimate messages. I need to know if this is happening. Thanks for any responses to let me know. Stan Xi Wang wrote: > > Hi Duane, > Actually, what you have is not a polyphemus, but a promethea moth. > http://www.npsc.nbs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/md/964.htm > Notice the eye spot near the tip of the wings in your photo, which is not > present in polyphemus. As for your queries, yes, silkmoths are actually > one of the easiest and most enjoyable to raise in my opinion. I'm not > sure if now would be a good time to raise them since I don't know what the > weather is like at your locality, but it probably wouldn't be a good > idea. Since winter is fast approaching, any eggs you obtain now would > likely run out of food during the middle of their development...unless > you've a greenhouse. It would be best to acquire the eggs in the spring, > i.e. May-June. Here's are some nice sources for info/supplies: > http://members.aol.com/mothsrus/mikemot1.htm > http://www3.pei.sympatico.ca/~david.fraser/supplies.htm > Hope I have been of some assistance. > > Cheers, > Xi Wang > > Duane wrote: > > > Greetings, all. > > > > I was fortunate enough to happen across this little fellow while I was > > leaving my apartment last week... > > > > http://www.photosig.com/viewphoto.php?id=209337 > > > > I'm not sure what sort of moth he is, but seeing him has really filled > > me with the urge to dabble in raising moths. I live in Maryland, so I > > checked around to see what sorts of moths are "local". It would > > appear that the Polyphemus is onoe of Maryland's moths... > > > > http://www.npsc.nbs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/moths/md/955.htm > > > > I have a few questions, and I hope that the veterans of the group will > > indulge me. > > > > [1] Is it reasonable for a novice to expect to be able to raise > > Polyphemus? If not, would I have an easier (and thus more enjoyable) > > time starting off with an "easier" variety? > > > > [2] Can Polyphemus be raised in August and September? I'd be raising > > them indoors. > > > > [3] I haven't had any luck finding a source online for eggs or > > livestock. Might someone be able to point me in the right direction? > > > > Thank you in advance for your consideration. > > > > Regards, > > Duane Roelands > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rckint at hotmail.com Thu Aug 22 03:12:15 2002 From: rckint at hotmail.com (Rodolfo Kintanar) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:12:15 +0800 Subject: Help in identifying butterfly Message-ID: <000001c249ab$3eef4a60$abe408ca@eh> Please help identify this butterfly my daughter and her son raised. I got the larvae from a citrus plant. Thank you. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020822/ffb1bcf4/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020822/ffb1bcf4/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9021 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020822/ffb1bcf4/attachment-0001.jpe From Guy_VdP at t-online.de Thu Aug 22 03:33:57 2002 From: Guy_VdP at t-online.de (Annette & Guy Van de Poel) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:33:57 +0200 Subject: Help in identifying butterfly References: <000001c249ab$3eef4a60$abe408ca@eh> Message-ID: <002101c249ae$4821b160$2a1058d9@server> It is Papilio (Princeps) demoleus Linnaeus, 1758. It is at home in tropical south-eastern Asia, in open places (it is not a forest butterfly), where the larvae indeed live on Citrus spp. It has a close relative in Africa and SW Asia (Arabia) called P. (P.) demodocus Esper, [1798]. That one also lives on Citrus trees, and can sometimes become a pest (maybe also demoleus). Nice pictures. Guy. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodolfo Kintanar To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Sent: donderdag 22 augustus 2002 9:12 Subject: Help in identifying butterfly Please help identify this butterfly my daughter and her son raised. I got the larvae from a citrus plant. Thank you. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/2002 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020822/946e8eba/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020822/946e8eba/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 9021 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020822/946e8eba/attachment-0001.jpe From neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 22 13:58:12 2002 From: neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:58:12 +0100 Subject: Total Novice Covets Polyphemus References: , <3D6466B6.CD44F5C0@sprint.ca>, <3D647A73.89B6CCE9@extremezone.com> Message-ID: <4A999.46210$IU4.1416541@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net> Stanley A. Gorodenski wrote: > I don't recall having seen the original message that prompted this > response. In the last few days, has there been any Leps-L messages > besides this one? My internet provider recently installed software to > screen SPAM and there is always the danger it will bar legitimate > messages. I need to know if this is happening. > Thanks for any responses to let me know. > Stan > Stan, Leps-L is , as you probably know gated to the usenet newsgroup sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera (SBEL). For many years I picked up both and posted to which ever was the most convenient. For a while I changed software and did leps-l only. Recently I have changed back to receiving both. I think there is a problem with the gating system. I noticed a set of SBEL postings that had problems a few days ago. You may have seen my reply to Jay Linn but not the other two messages in the thread. all done via SBEL. Anyway I have contacted the leps-l list owner about the suspected problem. I am also sending this via SBEL so I can analyse more data to find out extra details of the problem and see if I can confirm my theory. -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From ParcBob at aol.com Thu Aug 22 16:52:50 2002 From: ParcBob at aol.com (ParcBob at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:52:50 EDT Subject: Story in the New times Message-ID: <197.be6b42e.2a96a922@aol.com> In a message dated 8/22/02 10:20:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, susaneastman at earthlink.net writes: > Bob, > My story is out. You can read it online at newtimesbpb.com. I'm sure I > didn't delve into the netless issue as deeply as you would like. But let me > know what you think. > Thanks, > Susan Eastman > Hi Susan, I like the story. It is upbeat and popularizes butterflies. It really raises no controversies as Ron and I were preparing for, as well as you by being a member of Nautre Potpourri and TILS-LEPS-TALK (with the current threads). It was not about the Miami Blue Butterfly Restoration Project or the bug. It was about the great work the Cooper's do at the Prairie (where I have worked for 6 years on ecology) and elswhere. It is an entertaining article. Alana's obsession, which dominates it, is very wholesome and entertaining. Lyn is always good press. She is a real ornithologist and an avid beginning oder and lepster. She becomes expert very quickly. sooon to be an odonatist and lepidopterist. Glassberg was given his do, no more and no less. I think it is wise to divide this subject into 3 parts. Let me explain. We need not mention any controversies. I actually, as I told you in 3 hours of interviewing( where was my name... MOI !?), have helped list at list 30 critters in my life and it is only for very detailed, quite precise reasons that I support the view of our (MBBRP) science staff (to a 90% degree) that this is not the time to list this species. This is profound and I and Mark Walker (Vice-Chair Science/MBBRP, Phyliss Baker (Vice-Chair Support/MBBRP/ Programs Director/PES/IEES and Rick Mikula. PR/MBBRP and International Buttterflies Breeders Association , Board Member will get PRESS RELEASES out to the wire services and discuss ONLY this aspect as time goes on. It is sad that no science was in this article. Now as the dumbing down ceases the observations by watchers in general will be of some significance as I told you at great length. These are not birders helping ornithologists! They are far behind on this thing that has "evolved" with great care for 30 years. It is like comparing butterflies with birds. The id is much more difficult the naming is 50x more controversial and I have not gotten into common names! So this is part one of three articles. the last being the Restoration of The Miami Blue Butterfly. With "glory" to the critter and the 1000sands who participate. Now let me discuss briefly what is not included in the first (I like it, I like it). First the thousands of hours spent by John Calhoun, Mark Salvato and Jeffrey Slotten in their paper on the Miami Blue Butterfly. And John and Marc Mino's excellent job writing the Butterflies of Florida Through Binoculars . Tom Emmel's works. Marc Mino's work with and without Tom Emmel. John Calhoun's ongoing and past research on sibling species. Mark Salvato's fantastic thesis in 1999 on three disappearing butterflies. The founding of MBBRP by Anne Kilmer, John Calhoun and myself and the thousands of hours for not one penny except a hundred dollars I was reimbursed by. Needed since I am legally applying for disabilty with hopes of dieing with dignity (and I might add a PhD from Harvard who will sell those things to anybody nowadays). Now I know that this article is going to make a lot of yours and my peers on TILS-LEPS-TALK quite angry. But they need not fear. There will be follow ups. I have been making news happen for 35 years and I know a newshound when I meet one. Besides Susan you can write! The second article should go on after giving the back ground above and tell of Anne's Task Force, much aligned by her friend's and foies alike, Jose Muniz, Tom and Mia Mazza, Steve Bass, Ron Boender and hundreds of lesser LTs as well as boyscouts, girlscouts, students, arborists, landscapers, master and lower gardeners :) Neither does PROactive Ecology Solutions (PES) nor The International Lepidoptera Survey (TILS) have any workers, soldiers or peons. I believe in "all chiefs and no indians". That is the grassroots that Jeff Glassberg called for. Well it is here and it is now! Now in the second article lets not forget the organizations in south Florida like the Florida Native Plant Society Chapter in Miami and Bob Kelley's Tropical Audubon. What about David Fine who goes every week to the keys and a (few secret places) with no money except for a token few hundred dollars from passing the hat 9this past week) and some donations. It will pay his mounting gas bill. What about Mark Salvato who is caught between two warring factions doing his "thing" for free. How about Mark Walker our science Vice-Chair MBBRP, an excellent lepidopterist. A pretty good writerr also as you well know. He is backed up by dr. kurt Johnson, who knows more about blues than Nabokov. what say we include Leroy Koehn one of the most experienced leps guys to study moths and butterflies in Florida! Leroy "gets among them" he does not just talk a good show. He is a good joke recanter. Some are a little risque....for Alana and some people. There is the ID brochure John Calhoun made which needs to printed in the ten's of thousands and given out ALL over south Florida! Now will this article help us do that? I am afraid not. I lot of us are reading it and saying great for the bugs and a few people but what about the butterflies? The MBBRP is only the first of many and many. Have some people switched sides too fast? time will tell. But we will need in the next THREE articles to give you some meat and potaotes. You have sold some sizzle but it goes away fast. True grassroots work lasts and it builds a strong structure, when its foundation is true science. Journalists have an opportUNITY to do that! Some people REact we PROact! I would like to discuss these issues with Lana and Jeffrey Galesburg on my show Ecology Today. He obviously has differences and issues when he insulted my people and when Alana goes to biologists one step ahead of David Fine and says we are "under funded and amateurs" (collectors and vile things like breeders and trappers and hunters!) I know because they tell david and call me. actually, it is a hoot and we are not preoccupied with any war as I told you. but he who laugs last laughs best. Anyway, God Bless them both. I respect them both in many ways. Sounded like a good close. But I am not finished yet. Anne Kilmer and I both suffered health reversals and this truly under-funded Project is not smoldering but aflame with interest, desire and dedication. I have no butterflie pin or tatto but I lkie the bugs and Ilike the science even more. My people are theorizing and hypotheseizing so many things we need to double our immediate science team to do them!. Now we have not the funds of this small (it is!) North American Butterfly Association and I want them to do great things! The mag is very good. the editorial policies are rather limited. The photography is improving (my field for 40 years, as a master photographer) Glassberg is doing good work. Not an artist but great photojournalistic work. The Butterfly attraction in Texas is a marvelous idea. But he needs to help fund this MBBRP and stick to the things he has the manpower and tenacity to do. We are bulldogs. Broke but stubborn. I work for lunch I tell mey friends and directors. But a lot of the people who I have named above have been theire and done that. A lot of expereience. more than one man can have no matter how many degrees he has. Anne Kilmer is returning in October and her and Jose and the others and Dr. Bob Kelley and allthe friends of the blue will work side by side. Watcher, collector for science, collector for fun, breeder and farmer. Horticulturist, gardener and the landscapers and the treemen. Restore it and then decide if it needs listing. If we go any other way the south Florida growth extremists will spray-can this "one colony" and do THEIR thing! We will first determine if this is a re-invader as I and some of our science staff are considering. I need DNA help and island experts (West Indies,...now). In order to do the legal work against the FEDS which JG is sending his lawyer out in the field with hopes of later doing; one must identify the bug! This is something that any lepidopterist knows. BP PS: I Susan do the second article as i have suggested, no controversy, no comparisons, this will fly and get AP coverage. PS: 2 The third article will be the "fait compli". I promise you. ALL who have done any help will get the glory. but most will go mto this determined little blue butterfly. PS: 3 I really do like your piece :) PS: 4 I will send you the 2 current PRs under separate cover. PS: 5 In October we will have a Press Conference at Bahia Honda State Park with the entire staff and then some! PS: 6 But right now we have to talk about DIOXIN!!!!!! Your friend, BP ********************************************************************* Bob Parcelles, Jr. Behavioral Ecologist/Biogeographer/Butterfly Watcher & Collector RJP Associates Reply to: ParcBob at aol.com PHone: (727)548-9775 RJP - eBoard ********************************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020822/e56df454/attachment.html From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Aug 23 04:19:20 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 04:19:20 -0400 Subject: Nymphs 1 Message-ID: <001201c24a7d$c86dc640$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> The SC-NABN Nymphs 1 section is up. This is a working copy. Please send comments. Note that none of the new taxa have yet been added and the atlantis and hesperis have remain to be started on. The main comments I need at this point are 1) on the US / Can ranges 2) spelling and 3) accuracy of common names. http://tils-ttr.org/lepnames.html Ron I am no longer subscribed to southwest leps so someone will have to pass this along to there ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From woody.woods at umb.edu Fri Aug 23 13:01:43 2002 From: woody.woods at umb.edu (Woody Woods) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 13:01:43 -0400 Subject: alien or not? Message-ID: A friend found this Ailanthus Webworm moth (Fred SaintOurs is pretty sure it's Atteva punctella-- do you agree?). It was on an Ailanthus altissima sapling on Nantucket (off the coast of Massachusetts). http://fisher.bio.umb.edu/pages/jennphotos/OrangeInsect.jpg She can find no confirmation as to whether this moth is alien or native. Do any of you know? Ailanthus altissima is Asian in origin, and such information as she has found so far makes no mention of any other (native) hostplant. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020823/27cdd462/attachment.html From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sat Aug 24 05:08:01 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 05:08:01 -0400 Subject: SC-NABN Nymphs Message-ID: <002f01c24b4d$bfda1260$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> We uploaded a big update to the Nymphs I section of SC-NABN. Need input on Speyeria atlantis and S. hesperis subspecies and anything else anyone finds needs adjusting. http://www.tils-ttr.org ( Lep Names) Ron Gatrelle ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Mon Aug 26 02:01:37 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 02:01:37 -0400 Subject: White Mountains, AZ - Part 1 (or ode to Stephen Edward Dolansky) Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A709@hqmail.gensym.com> Good news - this will not be an 8-part saga. In fact, it would only be a 1-part saga, if not for some incredibly well-timed good fortune. You see, I was trying to sneak in a last minute trip to the White Mountains area of Arizona at the tail end of a business trip that involved driving from Oceanside to Phoenix, then to Tucson, then back to Phoenix, then flying to Dallas, then back to Phoenix, and then driving back to Oceanside by way of the White Mountains (the logistics of that last leg may not make much sense to anyone other than an entomologist). Short on time, I knew that I was totally dependant on atmospheric conditions corresponding to a very short time window. My last visit to this area was accompanied by much rain, so I couldn't be sure of what I might see. On my way in to the area on Thursday, August 22, I stopped to check things out west of Heber, Arizona (in Navajo County). It was getting late, but I saw plenty of Hesperia colorado (Branded Skipper), a single Papilio rutulus (Tiger Swallowtail) and a few stunning Phyciodes pratensis (Field Crescentspot). This was a good sign, even if much of the surrounding countryside had burned up during the recent wildfires. In fact, the area just west of Show Low is horrific to see. In what was once a very dense pine forest, there now stands miles and miles of burned and blackened sticks - as far as the eye can see. Much of the burned forest still stands as dense as before, so dense in fact that it would be impossible to traverse. Only now there are no signs of life - just charred, blackened sticks where trees used to be. The trees were no more than a few feet apart. It makes you wonder why any sensible nature-loving person would consider protesting the strategy of planned forest thinning - especially when you witness the effects promoted by doing nothing. Anyway, this isn't what I wanted to share with you today. I wanted to share something completely different and completely unexpected. I ended up staying at the Best Western in Eager, Arizona - on the northern doorsteps of the White Mountain region. In the morning, while throwing down a complimentary breakfast in order to get an early start, I noticed an interesting regional map mounted on the wall. I asked the manager where I might obtain such a map, and she kindly referred me to the area Chamber of Commerce in nearby Springerville. I thanked her, and then had to make the tough decision while leaving the motel parking lot. "Do I take the time to drive the opposite direction in order to get a copy of this map?", I asked myself. It was just after 8:00 a.m., but I knew the drive wasn't far (I had eaten dinner in Springerville the night before) - so I decided to seek out the Springerville Chamber of Commerce. Who knows - I might find something interesting. Actually, I was a little surprised to find the place open - but open it was. I entered and asked the helpful employee about the map. While she was preparing a copy, I looked around the quaint little place and admired an amazing number of displayed items of natural and cultural history. Suddenly, from across the room, my eyes made contact with something unmistakable: mounted butterflies and moths. Wow! What was this! Four very large homemade cases with hundreds and hundreds of species from all over the world. Incredible. Where did it come from? What was it doing here? Nearby was an accompanying wall mounted plaque with the name "Stephen Edward Dolansky - March 1955 to January 1997". Apparently, all of the leps I was admiring were collected or acquired by a single lepidopterist that made his home in Colorado Springs, CO. Perhaps some of you on this list knew the late Stephen Dolansky - his life cut short at the very young age of 42 (I am now 43). The plaque was prepared by Stephen's wife Kathy, who prepared it when she donated the collection for display. I was so touched by the epitaph she wrote on his behalf, that I felt I had to share it with you here. Though I never met this man, I feel I know him as I know myself. I dedicate this post to Stephen Dolansky, and to his wife Kathy - who loved him and understood him well enough to write the following. She obviously wanted to share a bit of Steve and his passion with unknown visitors - folk who, though uneducated in the science of Lepidoptera, might nevertheless be blessed by his legacy. I share it here without her permission, and hope you enjoy it as much as I have. Stephen Edward Dolansky March 1955 to January 1997 Born to collect one of God's most beautiful and diverse Lepidopteran Species. In other words butterflies and moths. He had a gift to be able to understand their habits, their habitat, their flight patterns, and their beauty due to thousands of overlapping colorful scales. A self taught lepidopterist, he knew all the common and scientific names of all these and more! Steve was born in Schenectody, N.Y., and moved to New Hartford, CT as a boy. Always in the woods, fields, and wildlife areas, he was able to observe and quietly gather his collection. As a young man he moved to Colorado Springs, CO, and lived there the rest of his life. It was home base. This particular collection was caught in many trips to various places. All outings were planned around collecting. So he would research areas of interest and then travel to them. The tropical case was acquired thru companies such as "The Butterfly Company" out of N.Y., Dianni, and The Lepidopterist Society. States Steve traveled to and collected in were: Colorado, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California, Kansas, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, Florida, Hawaii, Connecticut, New York, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Maine, and Indiana. He collected his moths with great vigor and enthusiasm. It's a nighttime process for the most part. You draw them into an open field with a sheet illuminated by a black light. They land on the sheet and are mesmerized. Needless to say countless hours of sleeplessness and generator noise produce magnificent results. Most of us never see what Steve saw, but it's out there. It's amazing after seeing Steve's collection that you go outside and actually start noticing the butterflies that have always been there. By trade Steve was a housepainter. This collection was his hobby - his passion. He went to live with the Lord in January, 1997. Kathy Dolansky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020826/98822e79/attachment.html From Jim at gpnc.org Mon Aug 26 10:42:48 2002 From: Jim at gpnc.org (Jim Mason) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:42:48 -0600 Subject: alien or not? References: Message-ID: <006401c24d0f$0db88580$c49ec9a5@JimM> alien or not?Holland's book (1903) shows two different species of Atteva. But on the Natureserve web site, the genus is listed as monotypic with that species name (punctella). I found no mention of point of origin, but it reasonable to presume it followed its host plant into North America. Nice picture! What was the camera used to take it? Jim Mason, Naturalist Jim at gpnc.org Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th Street North Wichita, KS 67220-2200 316-683-5499 x103 - voice 316-688-9555 - fax www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: Leps-l Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: alien or not? A friend found this Ailanthus Webworm moth (Fred SaintOurs is pretty sure it's Atteva punctella-- do you agree?). It was on an Ailanthus altissima sapling on Nantucket (off the coast of Massachusetts). http://fisher.bio.umb.edu/pages/jennphotos/OrangeInsect.jpg She can find no confirmation as to whether this moth is alien or native. Do any of you know? Ailanthus altissima is Asian in origin, and such information as she has found so far makes no mention of any other (native) hostplant. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020826/d1ba9305/attachment.html From chip at ku.edu Mon Aug 26 13:09:17 2002 From: chip at ku.edu (Chip Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:09:17 -0500 Subject: alien or not? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Atteva punctella is native. The hosts are members of the Simaroubaceae - of which there are a few species in Florida and Arizona. This species now uses the widely distributed and introduced Ailanthus altissima. It does not winter in the northern states but appears to migrate north in April from unknown source areas in the southeastern and south central US. There are substantial areas with Ailanthus altissima in the west where the moth is unknown. I have seen large Ailanthus trees completely defoliated by the larvae in Missouri. The moth is probably toxic and will not be eaten by birds when given a choice of dead moths. This is a relatively easy species to rear and work with in the lab. > >http://fisher.bio.umb.edu/pages/jennphotos/OrangeInsect.jpg > >She can find no confirmation as to whether this moth is alien or >native. Do any of you know? Ailanthus altissima is Asian in origin, >and such information as she has found so far makes no mention of any >other (native) hostplant. > >Woody -- Monarch Watch e: monarch at ku.edu w: http://www.MonarchWatch.org/ Dplex-L: send message "info Dplex-L" to Listproc at ukans.edu p: 1 (888) TAGGING (toll-free!) -or- 1 (785) 864 4441 f: 1 (785) 864 5321 usps: University of Kansas, Entomology Program, 1200 Sunnyside Avenue, Lawrence, KS 66045-7534 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020826/2d4d9cd9/attachment.html From jadams at em.daltonstate.edu Mon Aug 26 16:34:19 2002 From: jadams at em.daltonstate.edu (Dr. James Adams) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:34:19 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826153729.00a4d500@em.daltonstate.edu> Listers, I've finally updated the Georgia Lepidoptera website for the second time this year, mostly with live shots this time, with about 25 more noctuids (including a smattering of hypenines, catocalines, acronictines, apameines), a bunch of new geometrids, one or two new lasios, sphingids, saturniids, and notos, and, thanks to a generous donation by John Glaser, I have added about 30+ pyralids to the site as well. I'm back on campus full time for the fall, so I should be able to add some more in the not too distant future. Check out the live shots of the noctuid Hypsoropha monilis (not very far down the noctuid list, in the Calpinae). I've always thought this was a subtlely beautiful moth -- I think the pictures really do show this! james James K. Adams Phone: (706)272-4427 FAX: (706)272-2235 Visit the Georgia Lepidoptera Website: www.daltonstate.edu/galeps/ Also check out the Southern Lepidopterists' Society new Website: www.southernlepsoc.org/ -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 From woody.woods at umb.edu Mon Aug 26 20:10:17 2002 From: woody.woods at umb.edu (Woody Woods) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:10:17 -0400 Subject: alien or not? In-Reply-To: <006401c24d0f$0db88580$c49ec9a5@JimM> Message-ID: Thanks for the Holland's input-- I really should hunt down one of those apparently invaluable books. It turns out that Lynn Scott, who answered me offline, had taken a photo of A. Punctella to the Canadian National Collection in Ottawa while on a different mission; the folks there, including Dr. J. Donald Lafontaine-- to whom I have not yet written-- referred to it as native, but said that the host species prior to the arrival of Ailanthis was not known. The friend who took the photo (I'll find out what kind of camera, Jim-- I don't know) maintains a website about alien plant species, and says that Ailanthus came here in the late 1800s, and was first introduced to Nantucket, where the photo was taken, in 1913. She has since found that A. punctella was first recorded there in the 1920s, according to Johnson, Charles Willison. 1930. A List of the Insect Fauna of Nantucket, Massahusetts. The Nantucket Maria Mitchell Association Vol. III no. 2. 174. Anyway, perhaps after a few more communications we might have a better idea of whether there is a hitherto unidentified hostplant for A. punctella. By the way, Lynn mentioned that her photo of punctella was a first sighting for the Ottawa area, and that Ailanthus is not found that far north. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "Jim Mason" Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:42:48 -0600 To: "Leps-L" Cc: Subject: Re: alien or not? Holland's book (1903) shows two different species of Atteva. But on the Natureserve web site, the genus is listed as monotypic with that species name (punctella). I found no mention of point of origin, but it reasonable to presume it followed its host plant into North America. Nice picture! What was the camera used to take it? Jim Mason, Naturalist Jim at gpnc.org Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th Street North Wichita, KS 67220-2200 316-683-5499 x103 - voice 316-688-9555 - fax www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: Leps-l Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: alien or not? A friend found this Ailanthus Webworm moth (Fred SaintOurs is pretty sure it's Atteva punctella-- do you agree?). It was on an Ailanthus altissima sapling on Nantucket (off the coast of Massachusetts). http://fisher.bio.umb.edu/pages/jennphotos/OrangeInsect.jpg She can find no confirmation as to whether this moth is alien or native. Do any of you know? Ailanthus altissima is Asian in origin, and such information as she has found so far makes no mention of any other (native) hostplant. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020826/53b7ee50/attachment.html From jhimmel at mindspring.com Mon Aug 26 22:10:29 2002 From: jhimmel at mindspring.com (jh) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:10:29 -0400 Subject: alien or not? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Re: alien or not?I have found A. punctella in my hometown of Killingworth (Connecticut, USA). There ain't an ailanthus for miles! I had wondered what else would have been feeding on, but did not rule out it having made a long trip. John <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ -----Original Message----- From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu]On Behalf Of Woody Woods Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:10 PM To: Jim Mason; Leps-L Subject: Re: alien or not? Thanks for the Holland's input-- I really should hunt down one of those apparently invaluable books. It turns out that Lynn Scott, who answered me offline, had taken a photo of A. Punctella to the Canadian National Collection in Ottawa while on a different mission; the folks there, including Dr. J. Donald Lafontaine-- to whom I have not yet written-- referred to it as native, but said that the host species prior to the arrival of Ailanthis was not known. The friend who took the photo (I'll find out what kind of camera, Jim-- I don't know) maintains a website about alien plant species, and says that Ailanthus came here in the late 1800s, and was first introduced to Nantucket, where the photo was taken, in 1913. She has since found that A. punctella was first recorded there in the 1920s, according to Johnson, Charles Willison. 1930. A List of the Insect Fauna of Nantucket, Massahusetts. The Nantucket Maria Mitchell Association Vol. III no. 2. 174. Anyway, perhaps after a few more communications we might have a better idea of whether there is a hitherto unidentified hostplant for A. punctella. By the way, Lynn mentioned that her photo of punctella was a first sighting for the Ottawa area, and that Ailanthus is not found that far north. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "Jim Mason" Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:42:48 -0600 To: "Leps-L" Cc: Subject: Re: alien or not? Holland's book (1903) shows two different species of Atteva. But on the Natureserve web site, the genus is listed as monotypic with that species name (punctella). I found no mention of point of origin, but it reasonable to presume it followed its host plant into North America. Nice picture! What was the camera used to take it? Jim Mason, Naturalist Jim at gpnc.org Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th Street North Wichita, KS 67220-2200 316-683-5499 x103 - voice 316-688-9555 - fax www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: Leps-l Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: alien or not? A friend found this Ailanthus Webworm moth (Fred SaintOurs is pretty sure it's Atteva punctella-- do you agree?). It was on an Ailanthus altissima sapling on Nantucket (off the coast of Massachusetts). http://fisher.bio.umb.edu/pages/jennphotos/OrangeInsect.jpg She can find no confirmation as to whether this moth is alien or native. Do any of you know? Ailanthus altissima is Asian in origin, and such information as she has found so far makes no mention of any other (native) hostplant. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020826/8e38fbbc/attachment.html From woody.woods at umb.edu Mon Aug 26 23:35:48 2002 From: woody.woods at umb.edu (Woody Woods) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 23:35:48 -0400 Subject: alien or not? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, you're getting this again because I neglected to click "reply all"! I'm filing all responses, and thank you for yours; yours is the lowest-latitude response that says there aren't Ailanthus around! At this point there seems to be only speculation with the occasional sighting about A. punctella beyond the range of Ailanthus-- but Ailanthus was successfully introduced to Nantucket, (I think) north of you but possibly warmer overall from the Gulf Stream, where the photo posted at Jenn Forman's website was taken. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "jh" Reply-To: jhimmel at mindspring.com Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:10:29 -0400 To: "Leps-L" Subject: RE: alien or not? I have found A. punctella in my hometown of Killingworth (Connecticut, USA). There ain't an ailanthus for miles! I had wondered what else would have been feeding on, but did not rule out it having made a long trip. John <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ -----Original Message----- From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu]On Behalf Of Woody Woods Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:10 PM To: Jim Mason; Leps-L Subject: Re: alien or not? Thanks for the Holland's input-- I really should hunt down one of those apparently invaluable books. It turns out that Lynn Scott, who answered me offline, had taken a photo of A. Punctella to the Canadian National Collection in Ottawa while on a different mission; the folks there, including Dr. J. Donald Lafontaine-- to whom I have not yet written-- referred to it as native, but said that the host species prior to the arrival of Ailanthis was not known. The friend who took the photo (I'll find out what kind of camera, Jim-- I don't know) maintains a website about alien plant species, and says that Ailanthus came here in the late 1800s, and was first introduced to Nantucket, where the photo was taken, in 1913. She has since found that A. punctella was first recorded there in the 1920s, according to Johnson, Charles Willison. 1930. A List of the Insect Fauna of Nantucket, Massahusetts. The Nantucket Maria Mitchell Association Vol. III no. 2. 174. Anyway, perhaps after a few more communications we might have a better idea of whether there is a hitherto unidentified hostplant for A. punctella. By the way, Lynn mentioned that her photo of punctella was a first sighting for the Ottawa area, and that Ailanthus is not found that far north. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "Jim Mason" Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:42:48 -0600 To: "Leps-L" Cc: Subject: Re: alien or not? Holland's book (1903) shows two different species of Atteva. But on the Natureserve web site, the genus is listed as monotypic with that species name (punctella). I found no mention of point of origin, but it reasonable to presume it followed its host plant into North America. Nice picture! What was the camera used to take it? Jim Mason, Naturalist Jim at gpnc.org Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th Street North Wichita, KS 67220-2200 316-683-5499 x103 - voice 316-688-9555 - fax www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: Leps-l Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: alien or not? A friend found this Ailanthus Webworm moth (Fred SaintOurs is pretty sure it's Atteva punctella-- do you agree?). It was on an Ailanthus altissima sapling on Nantucket (off the coast of Massachusetts). http://fisher.bio.umb.edu/pages/jennphotos/OrangeInsect.jpg She can find no confirmation as to whether this moth is alien or native. Do any of you know? Ailanthus altissima is Asian in origin, and such information as she has found so far makes no mention of any other (native) hostplant. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020826/39d5c1b3/attachment.html From Jim at gpnc.org Tue Aug 27 10:49:06 2002 From: Jim at gpnc.org (Jim Mason) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:49:06 -0600 Subject: alien or not? References: Message-ID: <005001c24dd9$4233fae0$c49ec9a5@JimM> Re: alien or not?Woody, I suppose you saw Chip Taylor's response listing the native host plant and its very limited range. If you go to www.natureserve.org , navigate to the explorer and search for Ailanthus, you will find a range map for Ailanthus in North America. It IS listed as occurring in the SE 1/5 of Ontario and virtually all of New England. I suspect the blank spots for Vermont and New Hampshire are only due to lack of data. And for more context, here is the U.S. invasive species page on Ailanthus. http://www.invasivespecies.gov/profiles/treeoheaven.shtml Regards, Jim Mason, Naturalist Jim at gpnc.org Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th Street North Wichita, KS 67220-2200 316-683-5499 x103 - voice 316-688-9555 - fax www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: Jim Mason ; Leps-L Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:10 PM Subject: Re: alien or not? Thanks for the Holland's input-- I really should hunt down one of those apparently invaluable books. It turns out that Lynn Scott, who answered me offline, had taken a photo of A. Punctella to the Canadian National Collection in Ottawa while on a different mission; the folks there, including Dr. J. Donald Lafontaine-- to whom I have not yet written-- referred to it as native, but said that the host species prior to the arrival of Ailanthis was not known. The friend who took the photo (I'll find out what kind of camera, Jim-- I don't know) maintains a website about alien plant species, and says that Ailanthus came here in the late 1800s, and was first introduced to Nantucket, where the photo was taken, in 1913. She has since found that A. punctella was first recorded there in the 1920s, according to Johnson, Charles Willison. 1930. A List of the Insect Fauna of Nantucket, Massahusetts. The Nantucket Maria Mitchell Association Vol. III no. 2. 174. Anyway, perhaps after a few more communications we might have a better idea of whether there is a hitherto unidentified hostplant for A. punctella. By the way, Lynn mentioned that her photo of punctella was a first sighting for the Ottawa area, and that Ailanthus is not found that far north. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "Jim Mason" Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:42:48 -0600 To: "Leps-L" Cc: Subject: Re: alien or not? Holland's book (1903) shows two different species of Atteva. But on the Natureserve web site, the genus is listed as monotypic with that species name (punctella). I found no mention of point of origin, but it reasonable to presume it followed its host plant into North America. Nice picture! What was the camera used to take it? Jim Mason, Naturalist Jim at gpnc.org Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th Street North Wichita, KS 67220-2200 316-683-5499 x103 - voice 316-688-9555 - fax www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: Leps-l Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: alien or not? A friend found this Ailanthus Webworm moth (Fred SaintOurs is pretty sure it's Atteva punctella-- do you agree?). It was on an Ailanthus altissima sapling on Nantucket (off the coast of Massachusetts). http://fisher.bio.umb.edu/pages/jennphotos/OrangeInsect.jpg She can find no confirmation as to whether this moth is alien or native. Do any of you know? Ailanthus altissima is Asian in origin, and such information as she has found so far makes no mention of any other (native) hostplant. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020827/85c5a2e5/attachment.html From woody.woods at umb.edu Tue Aug 27 10:13:44 2002 From: woody.woods at umb.edu (Woody Woods) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:13:44 -0400 Subject: alien or not? In-Reply-To: <017701c24dbc$86674360$98ce3ccc@DaleRoberts> Message-ID: Since I posted my own too hasty interpretation of what John Himmelman wrote, I'm sending what in Washington DC is called a "clarification"-- Ailanthus is certainly found in Connecticut, but John has not found it close to where he lives, in a rural area. I'd be curious what plant you see A. punctella on-- even though they may simply be strays. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "Dale Roberts/Bill Yule" Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 07:26:00 -0400 To: Subject: Re: alien or not? Hi Woody, This is Bill Yule here and I live down the road from John Himmelman. I think you misunderstood John. I think he meant that there are not Ailanthus IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY of his house. Ailanthus grows all over Connecticut and it is possible some grows quite near his house that he doesn't know about. Just a thought. Hope I didn't misunderstand your post. Bill Yule ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: jhimmel at mindspring.com ; Leps-L ; Jennifer Forman Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 11:35 PM Subject: Re: alien or not? John, you're getting this again because I neglected to click "reply all"! I'm filing all responses, and thank you for yours; yours is the lowest-latitude response that says there aren't Ailanthus around! At this point there seems to be only speculation with the occasional sighting about A. punctella beyond the range of Ailanthus-- but Ailanthus was successfully introduced to Nantucket, (I think) north of you but possibly warmer overall from the Gulf Stream, where the photo posted at Jenn Forman's website was taken. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "jh" Reply-To: jhimmel at mindspring.com Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:10:29 -0400 To: "Leps-L" Subject: RE: alien or not? I have found A. punctella in my hometown of Killingworth (Connecticut, USA). There ain't an ailanthus for miles! I had wondered what else would have been feeding on, but did not rule out it having made a long trip. John <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ -----Original Message----- From: owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-leps-l at lists.yale.edu]On Behalf Of Woody Woods Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:10 PM To: Jim Mason; Leps-L Subject: Re: alien or not? Thanks for the Holland's input-- I really should hunt down one of those apparently invaluable books. It turns out that Lynn Scott, who answered me offline, had taken a photo of A. Punctella to the Canadian National Collection in Ottawa while on a different mission; the folks there, including Dr. J. Donald Lafontaine-- to whom I have not yet written-- referred to it as native, but said that the host species prior to the arrival of Ailanthis was not known. The friend who took the photo (I'll find out what kind of camera, Jim-- I don't know) maintains a website about alien plant species, and says that Ailanthus came here in the late 1800s, and was first introduced to Nantucket, where the photo was taken, in 1913. She has since found that A. punctella was first recorded there in the 1920s, according to Johnson, Charles Willison. 1930. A List of the Insect Fauna of Nantucket, Massahusetts. The Nantucket Maria Mitchell Association Vol. III no. 2. 174. Anyway, perhaps after a few more communications we might have a better idea of whether there is a hitherto unidentified hostplant for A. punctella. By the way, Lynn mentioned that her photo of punctella was a first sighting for the Ottawa area, and that Ailanthus is not found that far north. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "Jim Mason" Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:42:48 -0600 To: "Leps-L" Cc: Subject: Re: alien or not? Holland's book (1903) shows two different species of Atteva. But on the Natureserve web site, the genus is listed as monotypic with that species name (punctella). I found no mention of point of origin, but it reasonable to presume it followed its host plant into North America. Nice picture! What was the camera used to take it? Jim Mason, Naturalist Jim at gpnc.org Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th Street North Wichita, KS 67220-2200 316-683-5499 x103 - voice 316-688-9555 - fax www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: Leps-l Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: alien or not? A friend found this Ailanthus Webworm moth (Fred SaintOurs is pretty sure it's Atteva punctella-- do you agree?). It was on an Ailanthus altissima sapling on Nantucket (off the coast of Massachusetts). http://fisher.bio.umb.edu/pages/jennphotos/OrangeInsect.jpg She can find no confirmation as to whether this moth is alien or native. Do any of you know? Ailanthus altissima is Asian in origin, and such information as she has found so far makes no mention of any other (native) hostplant. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020827/033e02ca/attachment.html From woody.woods at umb.edu Tue Aug 27 10:57:53 2002 From: woody.woods at umb.edu (Woody Woods) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:57:53 -0400 Subject: alien or not? In-Reply-To: <005001c24dd9$4233fae0$c49ec9a5@JimM> Message-ID: Talk about going full circle-- the second website Jim mentions here has a link to the Umass Boston site maintained by none other than Jenn Forman, who took the A. punctella photo that started this! Many thanks to Chip Taylor for his information about the native hostplant. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "Jim Mason" Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:49:06 -0600 To: "Woody Woods" Cc: "Leps-L" Subject: Re: alien or not? Woody, I suppose you saw Chip Taylor's response listing the native host plant and its very limited range. If you go to www.natureserve.org , navigate to the explorer and search for Ailanthus, you will find a range map for Ailanthus in North America. It IS listed as occurring in the SE 1/5 of Ontario and virtually all of New England. I suspect the blank spots for Vermont and New Hampshire are only due to lack of data. And for more context, here is the U.S. invasive species page on Ailanthus. http://www.invasivespecies.gov/profiles/treeoheaven.shtml Regards, Jim Mason, Naturalist Jim at gpnc.org Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th Street North Wichita, KS 67220-2200 316-683-5499 x103 - voice 316-688-9555 - fax www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: Jim Mason ; Leps-L Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:10 PM Subject: Re: alien or not? Thanks for the Holland's input-- I really should hunt down one of those apparently invaluable books. It turns out that Lynn Scott, who answered me offline, had taken a photo of A. Punctella to the Canadian National Collection in Ottawa while on a different mission; the folks there, including Dr. J. Donald Lafontaine-- to whom I have not yet written-- referred to it as native, but said that the host species prior to the arrival of Ailanthis was not known. The friend who took the photo (I'll find out what kind of camera, Jim-- I don't know) maintains a website about alien plant species, and says that Ailanthus came here in the late 1800s, and was first introduced to Nantucket, where the photo was taken, in 1913. She has since found that A. punctella was first recorded there in the 1920s, according to Johnson, Charles Willison. 1930. A List of the Insect Fauna of Nantucket, Massahusetts. The Nantucket Maria Mitchell Association Vol. III no. 2. 174. Anyway, perhaps after a few more communications we might have a better idea of whether there is a hitherto unidentified hostplant for A. punctella. By the way, Lynn mentioned that her photo of punctella was a first sighting for the Ottawa area, and that Ailanthus is not found that far north. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* From: "Jim Mason" Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:42:48 -0600 To: "Leps-L" Cc: Subject: Re: alien or not? Holland's book (1903) shows two different species of Atteva. But on the Natureserve web site, the genus is listed as monotypic with that species name (punctella). I found no mention of point of origin, but it reasonable to presume it followed its host plant into North America. Nice picture! What was the camera used to take it? Jim Mason, Naturalist Jim at gpnc.org Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th Street North Wichita, KS 67220-2200 316-683-5499 x103 - voice 316-688-9555 - fax www.gpnc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody Woods To: Leps-l Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: alien or not? A friend found this Ailanthus Webworm moth (Fred SaintOurs is pretty sure it's Atteva punctella-- do you agree?). It was on an Ailanthus altissima sapling on Nantucket (off the coast of Massachusetts). http://fisher.bio.umb.edu/pages/jennphotos/OrangeInsect.jpg She can find no confirmation as to whether this moth is alien or native. Do any of you know? Ailanthus altissima is Asian in origin, and such information as she has found so far makes no mention of any other (native) hostplant. Woody ************************************************* William A. Woods Jr. Department of Biology University of Massachusetts Boston 100 Morrissey Blvd Boston, MA 02125 Lab: 617-287-6642 Fax: 617-287-6650 ************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020827/8cfbcfe5/attachment.html From hbrodkin at earthlink.net Tue Aug 27 13:50:17 2002 From: hbrodkin at earthlink.net (Hank Brodkin) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:50:17 -0700 Subject: Larva in Cochise County, Arizona Message-ID: <000501c24df2$3562ffa0$b7148144@theriver> I found a handsome (moth?) larva this morning on Climbing Milkweed (Sarcostemma cynanchoides) in my yard on Carr Canyon at the base of the Huachucas. Click on: http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/index.html Any ideas on species? -------------------- Hank Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ hbrodkin at earthlink.net SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association (SEABA) http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" by Bob Stewart, Priscilla Brodkin and Hank Brodkin http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/book.html ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From moth at ra.msstate.edu Tue Aug 27 14:57:48 2002 From: moth at ra.msstate.edu (Richard L. Brown) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:57:48 -0500 Subject: unknown sphingid larva Message-ID: Does anyone recognize this sphingid larva photographed in Mississippi? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: MVC-007F.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 66922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020827/c97512ea/attachment.jpe -------------- next part -------------- -- Richard L. Brown Mississippi Entomological Museum Box 9775 Mississippi State, MS 39762 PH: 662-325-2085 FAX: 662-325-8837 From fnjjk1 at uaf.edu Tue Aug 27 16:41:49 2002 From: fnjjk1 at uaf.edu (James Kruse) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:41:49 -0900 Subject: READ THIS FIRST (was): You probably received a virus from Eric Metzler In-Reply-To: <3D6B278C.7000000@infinet.com> Message-ID: NO DONT DELETE THAT FILE!!!!!! ------ on 8/26/02 10:17 PM, Eric or Pat Metzler at spruance at infinet.com wrote: I just received this message from Eric Classey. Sure enough, I had the file. Do as you see fit. Eric Metzler ----- HOAX!!! DONT DELETE THAT FILE!!!!!! From rworth at oda.state.or.us Tue Aug 27 16:00:11 2002 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:00:11 -0700 Subject: Larva in Cochise County, Arizona In-Reply-To: <000501c24df2$3562ffa0$b7148144@theriver> References: <000501c24df2$3562ffa0$b7148144@theriver> Message-ID: Hank, Looks like possibly a Euchaetes (Arctiid). The "look" is right and I think all the Euchaetes eat milkweeds or apocynaceous plants. Opler's new distribution manual of Arctiids for the West should have distributions for western species. Sorry, don't have my copy handy. Cheers, Rich >I found a handsome (moth?) larva this morning on Climbing Milkweed >(Sarcostemma cynanchoides) in my yard on Carr Canyon at the base of the >Huachucas. >Click on: >http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/index.html > >Any ideas on species? > >-------------------- >Hank Brodkin >Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ >hbrodkin at earthlink.net >SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association (SEABA) >http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html >"Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" >by Bob Stewart, Priscilla Brodkin and Hank Brodkin >http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/book.html > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From hbrodkin at earthlink.net Tue Aug 27 16:16:00 2002 From: hbrodkin at earthlink.net (Hank Brodkin) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:16:00 -0700 Subject: Larva in Cochise County, Arizona References: <000501c24df2$3562ffa0$b7148144@theriver> Message-ID: <003301c24e06$90405260$9d148144@theriver> Thanks everyone for all the info that zipped right back at me. I'll check the sites and info suggestd. Hank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Worth" To: "Hank Brodkin" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Larva in Cochise County, Arizona > Hank, > Looks like possibly a Euchaetes (Arctiid). The "look" is right and I > think all the Euchaetes eat milkweeds or apocynaceous plants. > Opler's new distribution manual of Arctiids for the West should have > distributions for western species. Sorry, don't have my copy handy. > Cheers, Rich > > >I found a handsome (moth?) larva this morning on Climbing Milkweed > >(Sarcostemma cynanchoides) in my yard on Carr Canyon at the base of the > >Huachucas. > >Click on: > >http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/index.html > > > >Any ideas on species? > > > >-------------------- > >Hank Brodkin > >Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ > >hbrodkin at earthlink.net > >SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association (SEABA) > >http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html > >"Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" > >by Bob Stewart, Priscilla Brodkin and Hank Brodkin > >http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/book.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > Richard A. Worth > Oregon Department of Agriculture > Plant Division > rworth at oda.state.or.us > (503) 986-6461 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From hbrodkin at earthlink.net Tue Aug 27 16:37:08 2002 From: hbrodkin at earthlink.net (Hank Brodkin) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:37:08 -0700 Subject: Larva in Cochise County, Arizona Message-ID: <005401c24e09$84a0d440$9d148144@theriver> I checked around, thanks to James Adams who gave me the genus and I think I located the creature on Bruce Walsh's Moths of SE Arizona site: http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/zeeb/butterflies/artic.html#Arctiinae He has a nice photo taken by Mike Singer on his site. Thanks again to all! Hank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hank Brodkin" To: "leps-l" Cc: "Bruce Walsh" Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:50 AM Subject: Larva in Cochise County, Arizona > I found a handsome (moth?) larva this morning on Climbing Milkweed > (Sarcostemma cynanchoides) in my yard on Carr Canyon at the base of the > Huachucas. > Click on: > http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/index.html > > Any ideas on species? > > -------------------- > Hank Brodkin > Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ > hbrodkin at earthlink.net > SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association (SEABA) > http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html > "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" > by Bob Stewart, Priscilla Brodkin and Hank Brodkin > http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/book.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From hbrodkin at earthlink.net Tue Aug 27 16:39:01 2002 From: hbrodkin at earthlink.net (Hank Brodkin) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 13:39:01 -0700 Subject: Larva in Cochise County, Arizona References: <000501c24df2$3562ffa0$b7148144@theriver> Message-ID: <005b01c24e09$c7ad70e0$9d148144@theriver> Rich Worth also gave me the genus. Thanks again for all replies, past and future. Hank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Worth" To: "Hank Brodkin" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Larva in Cochise County, Arizona > Hank, > Looks like possibly a Euchaetes (Arctiid). The "look" is right and I > think all the Euchaetes eat milkweeds or apocynaceous plants. > Opler's new distribution manual of Arctiids for the West should have > distributions for western species. Sorry, don't have my copy handy. > Cheers, Rich > > >I found a handsome (moth?) larva this morning on Climbing Milkweed > >(Sarcostemma cynanchoides) in my yard on Carr Canyon at the base of the > >Huachucas. > >Click on: > >http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/index.html > > > >Any ideas on species? > > > >-------------------- > >Hank Brodkin > >Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ > >hbrodkin at earthlink.net > >SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association (SEABA) > >http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html > >"Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" > >by Bob Stewart, Priscilla Brodkin and Hank Brodkin > >http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/book.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > Richard A. Worth > Oregon Department of Agriculture > Plant Division > rworth at oda.state.or.us > (503) 986-6461 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From moth at ra.msstate.edu Tue Aug 27 17:54:11 2002 From: moth at ra.msstate.edu (Richard L. Brown) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 16:54:11 -0500 Subject: sphingid larva Message-ID: A list member suggested that it might be Xylophanes, and it matches photographs of X. tersa on John Snyder's site of images. Thanks. -- Richard L. Brown Mississippi Entomological Museum Box 9775 Mississippi State, MS 39762 PH: 662-325-2085 FAX: 662-325-8837 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Tue Aug 27 20:59:14 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:59:14 -0400 Subject: White Mountains, AZ - Part 2 Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A724@hqmail.gensym.com> Well, after my most pleasant viewing of the lep collection of Stephen Dolansky, I made my way south towards Alpine, Arizona. The area just south of Eager, Arizona was incredibly green from recent rainfall (the same rainfall that kept me wet a few weeks ago), and everything was in full bloom. This was an encouraging sight. At Alpine, I headed west towards Big Lake and into the heart of the White Mountains. I grew a bit concerned after searching a few of the abundant and blossoming meadows, as not a single butterfly was seen anywhere. The only lep on the wing was a stunning black and white Gnophaela moth, but no sign of anything else. Could it be that the drought had eclipsed the late summer Nymphalid flights? I found this hard to believe. Suddenly, at a lone thistle blossom, I saw a nectaring male Speyeria nokomis, freshly emerged, and looking quite spectacular. This was yet another good sign, indeed. The National Forest roads through this region are very friendly, and there was little need for my Subaru's All Wheel Drive. There are plenty of campgrounds to choose from in this area, also, making the region a great get-away destination for those inclined to sleep on the ground. I stopped for a look around at Three Forks, where an expansive meadow lies at the converging of three streams. The meadow was overgrown with thistle, as well as a sea of other flowering plants waving in the light wind. I immediately began seeing Speyeria mormonia luske - counted in the hundreds - chasing about and favoring various smaller flower blossoms for nectar. The females of this species were abundant, and quite fresh. I could see the occasional male Speyeria nokomis flying about, looking over the forest of thistle for any sign of a potential lady companion. None were to be found, I'm afraid - the season not quite far enough along for their presence. This made the males exceptionally difficult to capture, as they rarely stopped to sip. They fly so rapidly that it is virtually impossible to take chase. Especially since the meadow is characterized by many meandering streams and marshy areas. Both my feet became quite saturated after only a few minutes. Another butterfly that was relatively common here was the very ruddy Lycaena ferrisi (Ferris' Copper). I dunno - it looks just like rubidus to me, but then I haven't examined them side by side. By noon the area had exploded into a Speyeria party, and I laughed at my earlier concern that I might not encounter any butterflies at all. I stayed in the meadow until about 1:30, at which time I began my long haul back to Oceanside, California. My three hours at Three Forks was well worth the upcoming drive. I waved goodbye to my fellow party goers, and trudged back to the car. On my way home I stopped in Phoenix for petrol, and ended up picking up a 70-year old hitchhiker wearing a Texaco uniform. This was Lee, and Lee was heading home to Palm Springs, California, after working for three straight weeks in Sun City. It seems he had tried to get home the weekend before, but ended up waiting for 12 hours on a lonely Phoenix onramp - only to head back to the Texaco station to endure another week of working and sleeping in a nearby abandoned vehicle. We chatted extensively during our four hour drive together, and I found out that Lee had intended on retiring by now - and would have, if not for his invalid wife who had become instantly and mysteriously paralyzed from the neck down some 7 ? years ago. It seems that the Auto Mechanic profession that Lee had chosen never provided any health insurance, and so Lee was forced to spend his retirement money (> $250,000) on his wife's medical bills. Meanwhile, Lee can find no service stations anywhere in California that are willing to hire a 70-year old mechanic. The closest he could find work was 20 miles north of Phoenix. Three weeks prior to our ride together, Lee's only vehicle busted a head gasket as he coasted down from the General Patton Museum down to Indio, California. Nevertheless, Lee remains optimistic that his luck will soon change. He's been fighting for survival for all these years, so no reason to stop now. My list from Three Forks: Colias eurytheme (Orange Sulphur) Lycaena ferrisi (Ferris' Copper) Speyeria mormonia (Mormon Fritillary) Speyeria nokomis (Nokomis Fritillary) Speyeria hesperis/atlantis (Northwestern Fritillary) Oarisma garita (Garita Skipperling) Poanes taxiles (Taxiles Skipper) Pyrgus communis? (Checkered Skipper) Mark Walker Oceanside, CA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020827/1ec42bf8/attachment.html From cwcook at duke.edu Wed Aug 28 10:39:19 2002 From: cwcook at duke.edu (Will Cook) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:39:19 -0400 Subject: skipper IDs Message-ID: <3D6CE097.1AB6CDB0@duke.edu> Here are photos of two unidentifieds: http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/pix/temp/ The duskywing I photographed in Durham, NC on 8/17. It's backlit, so you can see all the spots in the forewing clearly - there was no cell end spot. It was as dark as the photo shows. Size seemed right for Horace's or Zarucco. The local options now are Horace's (Erynnis horatius), Zarucco (E. zarucco), and Wild Indigo (E. baptisiae). The grass-skipper was photographed in Croatan National Forest, Craven County, NC on 8/25. It was very small, noticeable smaller than the Delawares we'd been seeing. The two spotless orangish skippers in the area now are Delaware (Anatrytone logan) and Arogos (Atrytone arogos). Our guess is a runt worn male Delaware. Thanks for any insight you can give. -- Charles W. "Will" Cook w 919-660-7423 http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook cwcook at duke.edu Biology Dept., Duke Univ., Box 90340, Durham, NC 27708 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jadams at em.daltonstate.edu Wed Aug 28 15:22:40 2002 From: jadams at em.daltonstate.edu (Dr. James Adams) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:22:40 -0400 Subject: new additions Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828151735.00a79cb0@em.daltonstate.edu> Listers, a la Lynn Scott, I thought I'd list the new additions to the website (pictures of live individuals added to already existing pages are not included here). By the way, Lynn, I haven't forgotten about your Ethmia questions -- I promise to get back to you, just give me until next week. Pyralidae 4943 Crocidophora pustuliferalis 4945 C. tuberculalis 5182 Blepharomastix ranalis 5226 Palpita magniferalis 5272 Herpetogramma bipunctalis 5276 H. abdominalis 5288 Marasmia trapezalis 5333 Prionapteryx nebulifera 5334 P. achatina 5510 Pyralis farinalis 5524 Hypsopygia costalis 5526 Herculia intermedialis 5533 H. olinalis 5538 Parachma ochracealis 5552 Galasa nigrinodis 5556 Tosale oviplagalis 5566 Arta statalis 5579 Epispachia zelleri 5588 Oneida lunulalis 5596 Tetralopha scortealis 5604 T. militella 5718 Myelopsis subtetricella 5773 Salebriaria engeli 5794 Nephopterix vetustella 5802 N. uvinella 5803 N. celtidella 5849 Dioryctria. pygmaeella 5863.1 D. clarioralis 5896 Elasmopalpus lignosellus 5918 Hulstia undulatella 5970 Melitara prodenialis 5997 Euzophera ostricolorella 6049 P. roseotinctella Geometridae 6273 Macaria (Itame) pustularia 6331 M. promiscuata 6340 M. minorata 6352 M. granitata 6659 Phigalia denticulata 7416 Costaconvexa centrostrigaria 7483 E. regina Saturniidae Syssphinx (Sphingicampa) bisecta Sphingidae Manduca sexta Manduca quinquemaculata Notodontidae 7896 Clostera inclusa Arctiidae 8214 L. maculata Adult added; larva already pictured Noctuidae 8361 Macrochilo louisiana 8393 Lascoria ambigualis 8442 B. baltimoralis 8444 B. palparia 8465 Plathypena scabra 8739 Caenurgina erechtea 8797 Catocala subnata 9254 Acronicta afflicta 9328 Apamea nigrior 9493 Papaipema appassionata 9678 Elaphria versicolor 9679 E. chalcedonia Lithophane joannis (no Hodges number) 10012 Psaphida electilis 10019 P. resumens 10067 Adita chionanthi 10438 Pseudaletia unipuncta 10812 Euxoa bostoniensis James K. Adams Phone: (706)272-4427 FAX: (706)272-2235 Visit the Georgia Lepidoptera Website: www.daltonstate.edu/galeps/ Also check out the Southern Lepidopterists' Society new Website: www.southernlepsoc.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020828/a9150516/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 From TEichlin at cdfa.ca.gov Wed Aug 28 16:39:28 2002 From: TEichlin at cdfa.ca.gov (Thomas Eichlin) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:39:28 -0700 Subject: South American trips Message-ID: A colleague of mine is interested in traveling to S. America to collect insects. He previously went to Rondonia on a trip with the Emmel group and would even like to return there. If you know of trips available, please contact me. TIA Tom ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 28 16:52:42 2002 From: neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:52:42 +0100 Subject: unidentified european moth References: <60920ee1.0208251056.5598c9e9@posting.google.com> Message-ID: Eddy wrote: > Is there anybody that I can send a picture of a moth that I am not > able to identify? The picture was taken 2 weeks ago in southern > Germany > This one didn't make it to the leps-l part of the system can anyone help? -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rhilton at CSA.com Wed Aug 28 18:09:36 2002 From: rhilton at CSA.com (Hilton, Rob) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 18:09:36 -0400 Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia Message-ID: Around 1 or 2 pm, Saturday August 24, as I was driving north on US 13 in northern Northampton County, Virginia, I saw a large, orange butterfly flying over the road. It seemed to be identical in shape, size, altitude, and behavior to the many Cloudless Sulphurs (Phoebis sennae) that I had noted that day. However, it was essentially orange. I drove more or less under it and kept on going, as I figured relocating it would be impossible. This butterfly was probably 12 feet or so above the road as I was traveling north around 55 mph. I knew that there are only a handful of records anywhere near this far north for other Phoebis species, and I figured trying to relocate a single butterfly along a busy highway was next to impossible. The only other non-Cloudless Phoebis sulphurs I have ever seen were Large Orange (P. agarithe) and Orange-barred (P. philea) nine years ago in Texas. This past weekend I saw 150-200 Cloudless Sulphurs, both from the car and while walking. All the Cloudless Sulphurs were quite obvious. I frequently saw them flying across US 13 at heights of 6 to 15 feet, as well as closer to the ground along the side of the highway. I think I saw around 200 individuals during the three days I was in the Eastern Shore of Virginia, and I am quite familiar with Phoebis sennae, having seen thousands of them one day in 1998 at Point Lookout, Maryland as well as many around Cape May, NJ, and various other parts of the Middle Atlantic states. I didn't note any Colias sulphurs at all this weekend. I am quite familiar with the Orange Sulphur (Colias eurytheme) and have seen a few Sleepy Oranges (Eurema nicippe) too. The USGS website shows that Orange-barred Sulphur has been noted from three western Virginia counties, single counties in both central Pennsylvania and New Jersey, and three counties in New York and New England. It also shows that Large Orange Sulphur has been found in two counties in central Maryland, and single counties in New York, New Jersey, and Maine. The nearest counties to the south are in Georgia and northeast Florida, respectively. I welcome comments on this observation. Returning to the Washington, DC, area on August 26 I noted my last Cloudless Sulphur just east of the Nanticoke River bridge at the Wicomico / Dorchester County line. Best, Rob Hilton rhilton at csa.com Bethesda, Md. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Wed Aug 28 20:53:03 2002 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020829005303.99193.qmail@web12208.mail.yahoo.com> Rob, I saw my first Cloudless Sulpher just North of Chincoteague virginia in 1979. I did not collect but did a series of photgraphs. Long since sold as stock. The USGS site needs verifiable reports to update the data. We can all serve in that endeavor. Bob Parcelles Jr. --- "Hilton, Rob" wrote: > Around 1 or 2 pm, Saturday August 24, as I was driving north on US 13 > in northern Northampton County, Virginia, I saw a large, orange > butterfly flying over the road. It seemed to be identical in shape, > size, altitude, and behavior to the many Cloudless Sulphurs (Phoebis > sennae) that I had noted that day. However, it was essentially > orange ###############################SNIP MESSAGE############################ ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL Ecologist/Ethologist, RJP Associates CEO, PROactive Ecology Solutions Institute of Ecological and Environmental Studies (IEES) rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Thu Aug 29 00:53:46 2002 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:53:46 -0400 Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A72D@hqmail.gensym.com> My vote is Pheobis agarithe. It sounds like one from your description, and it doesn't seem to me to be a huge stretch that P. agarithe might occasionally move that far up the eastern seaboard from Florida. How common are they now on the northeastern coast of Florida (or other northern locations)? Mark Walker. > -----Original Message----- > From: Hilton, Rob [mailto:rhilton at CSA.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 3:10 PM > To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia > > Around 1 or 2 pm, Saturday August 24, as I was driving north on US 13 in > northern Northampton County, Virginia, I saw a large, orange butterfly > flying over the road. It seemed to be identical in shape, size, altitude, > and behavior to the many Cloudless Sulphurs (Phoebis sennae) that I had > noted that day. However, it was essentially orange. I drove more or less > under it and kept on going, as I figured relocating it would be > impossible. This butterfly was probably 12 feet or so above the road as I > was traveling north around 55 mph. I knew that there are only a handful > of records anywhere near this far north for other Phoebis species, and I > figured trying to relocate a single butterfly along a busy highway was > next to impossible. The only other non-Cloudless Phoebis sulphurs I have > ever seen were Large Orange (P. agarithe) and Orange-barred (P. philea) > nine years ago in Texas. This past weekend I saw 150-200 Cloudless > Sulphurs, both from the car and while walking. > > All the Cloudless Sulphurs were quite obvious. I frequently saw them > flying across US 13 at heights of 6 to 15 feet, as well as closer to the > ground along the side of the highway. I think I saw around 200 > individuals during the three days I was in the Eastern Shore of Virginia, > and I am quite familiar with Phoebis sennae, having seen thousands of them > one day in 1998 at Point Lookout, Maryland as well as many around Cape > May, NJ, and various other parts of the Middle Atlantic states. I didn't > note any Colias sulphurs at all this weekend. I am quite familiar with > the Orange Sulphur (Colias eurytheme) and have seen a few Sleepy Oranges > (Eurema nicippe) too. > > The USGS website shows that Orange-barred Sulphur has been noted from > three western Virginia counties, single counties in both central > Pennsylvania and New Jersey, and three counties in New York and New > England. It also shows that Large Orange Sulphur has been found in two > counties in central Maryland, and single counties in New York, New Jersey, > and Maine. The nearest counties to the south are in Georgia and northeast > Florida, respectively. > > I welcome comments on this observation. > > Returning to the Washington, DC, area on August 26 I noted my last > Cloudless Sulphur just east of the Nanticoke River bridge at the Wicomico > / Dorchester County line. > > Best, > > Rob Hilton > rhilton at csa.com > Bethesda, Md. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Thu Aug 29 04:14:10 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 04:14:10 -0400 Subject: Nymphs 1 done Message-ID: <003a01c24f34$106bf740$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> Your comments are imperative. The SC-NABN lists are only as good as the expert and local amaeteur input we get. Spellings, missed taxa, associations to species, and most importantly common names. Please forward this announcement to other lists especially regional ones. This is the only comprehensive listing of all US and Canadian taxa and their common names anywhere and in any media. Several major sections yet to go, but getting there. Email all comments via the link provided at the SC-NABN main page "comments". We rarely reply to these comments as we get just too many. http://tils-ttr.org/lepnames.html Ron Gatrelle TILS president Charleston, SC - USA http://www.tils-ttr.org ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mikayak3 at comcast.net Thu Aug 29 08:13:37 2002 From: mikayak3 at comcast.net (Mike Soukup) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:13:37 -0400 Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia References: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A72D@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <3D6E0FF1.1E86527E@comcast.net> In addition, there has been an invasion of P. sennae again this year. It started about 2 weeks ago here in Annapolis, Maryland. Now, I see about 10-20 per day in my garden - and about 30-40 if I go out driving around. Very fresh. And, with the storm that just came up the coast, I'm going out black witch hunting as soon as it warms up a bit.... Mark Walker wrote: > My vote is Pheobis agarithe. It sounds like one from your description, and > it doesn't seem to me to be a huge stretch that P. agarithe might > occasionally move that far up the eastern seaboard from Florida. > > How common are they now on the northeastern coast of Florida (or other > northern locations)? > > Mark Walker. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Hilton, Rob [mailto:rhilton at CSA.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 3:10 PM > > To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > > Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia > > > > Around 1 or 2 pm, Saturday August 24, as I was driving north on US 13 in > > northern Northampton County, Virginia, I saw a large, orange butterfly > > flying over the road. It seemed to be identical in shape, size, altitude, > > and behavior to the many Cloudless Sulphurs (Phoebis sennae) that I had > > noted that day. However, it was essentially orange. I drove more or less > > under it and kept on going, as I figured relocating it would be > > impossible. This butterfly was probably 12 feet or so above the road as I > > was traveling north around 55 mph. I knew that there are only a handful > > of records anywhere near this far north for other Phoebis species, and I > > figured trying to relocate a single butterfly along a busy highway was > > next to impossible. The only other non-Cloudless Phoebis sulphurs I have > > ever seen were Large Orange (P. agarithe) and Orange-barred (P. philea) > > nine years ago in Texas. This past weekend I saw 150-200 Cloudless > > Sulphurs, both from the car and while walking. > > > > All the Cloudless Sulphurs were quite obvious. I frequently saw them > > flying across US 13 at heights of 6 to 15 feet, as well as closer to the > > ground along the side of the highway. I think I saw around 200 > > individuals during the three days I was in the Eastern Shore of Virginia, > > and I am quite familiar with Phoebis sennae, having seen thousands of them > > one day in 1998 at Point Lookout, Maryland as well as many around Cape > > May, NJ, and various other parts of the Middle Atlantic states. I didn't > > note any Colias sulphurs at all this weekend. I am quite familiar with > > the Orange Sulphur (Colias eurytheme) and have seen a few Sleepy Oranges > > (Eurema nicippe) too. > > > > The USGS website shows that Orange-barred Sulphur has been noted from > > three western Virginia counties, single counties in both central > > Pennsylvania and New Jersey, and three counties in New York and New > > England. It also shows that Large Orange Sulphur has been found in two > > counties in central Maryland, and single counties in New York, New Jersey, > > and Maine. The nearest counties to the south are in Georgia and northeast > > Florida, respectively. > > > > I welcome comments on this observation. > > > > Returning to the Washington, DC, area on August 26 I noted my last > > Cloudless Sulphur just east of the Nanticoke River bridge at the Wicomico > > / Dorchester County line. > > > > Best, > > > > Rob Hilton > > rhilton at csa.com > > Bethesda, Md. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From agrkovich at tmpeng.com Thu Aug 29 07:51:08 2002 From: agrkovich at tmpeng.com (Grkovich, Alex) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 07:51:08 -0400 Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia Message-ID: Mine, too. As far as Mark's question is concerned, during mid-October, my Zebra Swallowtail girl and I will be in Orlando. I'll keep everyone posted of what I see (and collect). Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Walker [SMTP:MWalker at gensym.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:54 AM > To: 'rhilton at CSA.com'; LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > Subject: RE: Orange Phoebis in Virginia > > My vote is Pheobis agarithe. It sounds like one from your description, > and > it doesn't seem to me to be a huge stretch that P. agarithe might > occasionally move that far up the eastern seaboard from Florida. > > How common are they now on the northeastern coast of Florida (or other > northern locations)? > > Mark Walker. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Hilton, Rob [mailto:rhilton at CSA.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 3:10 PM > > To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > > Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia > > > > Around 1 or 2 pm, Saturday August 24, as I was driving north on US 13 in > > northern Northampton County, Virginia, I saw a large, orange butterfly > > flying over the road. It seemed to be identical in shape, size, > altitude, > > and behavior to the many Cloudless Sulphurs (Phoebis sennae) that I had > > noted that day. However, it was essentially orange. I drove more or > less > > under it and kept on going, as I figured relocating it would be > > impossible. This butterfly was probably 12 feet or so above the road as > I > > was traveling north around 55 mph. I knew that there are only a handful > > of records anywhere near this far north for other Phoebis species, and I > > figured trying to relocate a single butterfly along a busy highway was > > next to impossible. The only other non-Cloudless Phoebis sulphurs I > have > > ever seen were Large Orange (P. agarithe) and Orange-barred (P. philea) > > nine years ago in Texas. This past weekend I saw 150-200 Cloudless > > Sulphurs, both from the car and while walking. > > > > All the Cloudless Sulphurs were quite obvious. I frequently saw them > > flying across US 13 at heights of 6 to 15 feet, as well as closer to the > > ground along the side of the highway. I think I saw around 200 > > individuals during the three days I was in the Eastern Shore of > Virginia, > > and I am quite familiar with Phoebis sennae, having seen thousands of > them > > one day in 1998 at Point Lookout, Maryland as well as many around Cape > > May, NJ, and various other parts of the Middle Atlantic states. I > didn't > > note any Colias sulphurs at all this weekend. I am quite familiar with > > the Orange Sulphur (Colias eurytheme) and have seen a few Sleepy Oranges > > (Eurema nicippe) too. > > > > The USGS website shows that Orange-barred Sulphur has been noted from > > three western Virginia counties, single counties in both central > > Pennsylvania and New Jersey, and three counties in New York and New > > England. It also shows that Large Orange Sulphur has been found in two > > counties in central Maryland, and single counties in New York, New > Jersey, > > and Maine. The nearest counties to the south are in Georgia and > northeast > > Florida, respectively. > > > > I welcome comments on this observation. > > > > Returning to the Washington, DC, area on August 26 I noted my last > > Cloudless Sulphur just east of the Nanticoke River bridge at the > Wicomico > > / Dorchester County line. > > > > Best, > > > > Rob Hilton > > rhilton at csa.com > > Bethesda, Md. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > CAUTION PLEASE NOTE: The information contained in this transmission is intended to be sent only to the stated recipient of the transmission. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the intended recipient's agent, you are hereby notified that we do not intend to waive any privilege that might ordinarily be attached to this communication. Any dissemination, distribution or copying of the information contained in this transmission is therefore prohibited. You are further asked to notify us of any such error in transmission as soon as possible at the telephone number/email address shown below. Thank you for your cooperation. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rhilton at CSA.com Thu Aug 29 08:01:05 2002 From: rhilton at CSA.com (Hilton, Rob) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:01:05 -0400 Subject: Phoebis sennae in Maryland and Virginia 2002 Message-ID: I saw my first P. sennae this year on July 4 in Greenville County, Virginia. I've since seen some at Cameron Run, on the Alexandria City/Fairfax County Virginia border. I love seeing them. I don't see them every year in the DC area. Mike, I hope you find a Black Witch! Rob Hilton -----Original Message----- From: Mike Soukup [mailto:mikayak3 at comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:14 AM To: MWalker at gensym.com Cc: Hilton, Rob; LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu Subject: Re: Orange Phoebis in Virginia In addition, there has been an invasion of P. sennae again this year. It started about 2 weeks ago here in Annapolis, Maryland. Now, I see about 10-20 per day in my garden - and about 30-40 if I go out driving around. Very fresh. And, with the storm that just came up the coast, I'm going out black witch hunting as soon as it warms up a bit.... Mark Walker wrote: > My vote is Pheobis agarithe. It sounds like one from your description, and > it doesn't seem to me to be a huge stretch that P. agarithe might > occasionally move that far up the eastern seaboard from Florida. > > How common are they now on the northeastern coast of Florida (or other > northern locations)? > > Mark Walker. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Hilton, Rob [mailto:rhilton at CSA.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 3:10 PM > > To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu > > Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia > > > > Around 1 or 2 pm, Saturday August 24, as I was driving north on US 13 in > > northern Northampton County, Virginia, I saw a large, orange butterfly > > flying over the road. It seemed to be identical in shape, size, altitude, > > and behavior to the many Cloudless Sulphurs (Phoebis sennae) that I had > > noted that day. However, it was essentially orange. I drove more or less > > under it and kept on going, as I figured relocating it would be > > impossible. This butterfly was probably 12 feet or so above the road as I > > was traveling north around 55 mph. I knew that there are only a handful > > of records anywhere near this far north for other Phoebis species, and I > > figured trying to relocate a single butterfly along a busy highway was > > next to impossible. The only other non-Cloudless Phoebis sulphurs I have > > ever seen were Large Orange (P. agarithe) and Orange-barred (P. philea) > > nine years ago in Texas. This past weekend I saw 150-200 Cloudless > > Sulphurs, both from the car and while walking. > > > > All the Cloudless Sulphurs were quite obvious. I frequently saw them > > flying across US 13 at heights of 6 to 15 feet, as well as closer to the > > ground along the side of the highway. I think I saw around 200 > > individuals during the three days I was in the Eastern Shore of Virginia, > > and I am quite familiar with Phoebis sennae, having seen thousands of them > > one day in 1998 at Point Lookout, Maryland as well as many around Cape > > May, NJ, and various other parts of the Middle Atlantic states. I didn't > > note any Colias sulphurs at all this weekend. I am quite familiar with > > the Orange Sulphur (Colias eurytheme) and have seen a few Sleepy Oranges > > (Eurema nicippe) too. > > > > The USGS website shows that Orange-barred Sulphur has been noted from > > three western Virginia counties, single counties in both central > > Pennsylvania and New Jersey, and three counties in New York and New > > England. It also shows that Large Orange Sulphur has been found in two > > counties in central Maryland, and single counties in New York, New Jersey, > > and Maine. The nearest counties to the south are in Georgia and northeast > > Florida, respectively. > > > > I welcome comments on this observation. > > > > Returning to the Washington, DC, area on August 26 I noted my last > > Cloudless Sulphur just east of the Nanticoke River bridge at the Wicomico > > / Dorchester County line. > > > > Best, > > > > Rob Hilton > > rhilton at csa.com > > Bethesda, Md. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From butrfly at epix.net Thu Aug 29 09:42:33 2002 From: butrfly at epix.net (R. Mikula) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:42:33 -0400 Subject: South American trips References: Message-ID: <3D6E24C8.A0E1B315@epix.net> Tom Your friend may want to check out http://www.Sachalodge.com/ which is located on the shore of Ecuador's Napo River. The web site will explain it quite nicely and it would also be very easy for your friend to schedule a side trip to the Galapagos. Sacha does have a working butterfly farm so there will be opportunities to get some great pictures of newly emerged leps. They have many other activities as well. And Ron this would be another example of a sustainable resource. Rick ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From oehlkew at islandtelecom.com Thu Aug 29 10:20:38 2002 From: oehlkew at islandtelecom.com (Bill Oehlke) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:20:38 -0300 Subject: fall Catocala Message-ID: <004601c24f67$408a81c0$b2f3b18e@userpatriot> Hi to all, I am looking for electronic images of Catocala species from North America. I am in the process of creating a site for the underwing moths similar in scope to my North American Saturniidae site. http://www3.islandtelecom.com/~oehlkew Although I prefer images of live caterpillars or live moth/pupae/eggs, etc., I am also pleased to display spread specimens. This is necessary for correct identification. Now is peak time for many Catocala species in the Northeast. I am currently taking relicta, concumbens, unijuga (two weks ago), coelebs, crataegi or blandula (maybe both) and a few others at lights here in Montague, Prince Edward Island, Canada. A little over a week ago I took several species in New Jersey and am in the process of spreading and scanning them. The site will be a free site and I am looking for as much help (with credit) as possible in developing it. I have access to several good references and can help with adult id if needed. I will collect specimens for trades if you are interested. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020829/4501dfae/attachment.html From jadams at em.daltonstate.edu Thu Aug 29 11:09:49 2002 From: jadams at em.daltonstate.edu (Dr. James Adams) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:09:49 -0400 Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia In-Reply-To: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D27A72D@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020829110353.00a548b0@em.daltonstate.edu> Mark Walker wrote, in response to Rob Hilton: >My vote is Pheobis agarithe. It sounds like one from your description, and >it doesn't seem to me to be a huge stretch that P. agarithe might >occasionally move that far up the eastern seaboard from Florida. I agree that it is likely P. agarithe. Surprisingly, however, P. agarithe in Florida appears to be very, very sedentary with records for even N. Florida being scarce. P. agarithe in Texas, however, is a well known wanderer. I have records for the Kansas City, MO and Lawrence, KS area (several) and I know it gets farther north sometimes in the fall. I have a tendency to attribute northern strays, even in the east, to the Texas populations and not the Floridian, though this is *pure conjecture* on my part. There are *very subtle* differences in maculation between Texan and Floridian specimens, though they are not always consistent, so if you ever net an agarithe in the east you *might* be able to determine its point of origin. P. sennae is certainly having another great year. Hoardes of them are flying around N. GA as I write this message. james James K. Adams Phone: (706)272-4427 FAX: (706)272-2235 Visit the Georgia Lepidoptera Website: www.daltonstate.edu/galeps/ Also check out the Southern Lepidopterists' Society new Website: www.southernlepsoc.org/ -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 From hbrodkin at earthlink.net Thu Aug 29 12:22:09 2002 From: hbrodkin at earthlink.net (Hank Brodkin) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:22:09 -0700 Subject: South American trips References: <3D6E24C8.A0E1B315@epix.net> Message-ID: <000501c24f78$3a60fde0$08148144@theriver> Close by is La Selva Lodge, also on the Napo. They also have a butterfly farm. Philip DeVries and Harold Greeley are/were working on a book of the butterflies there. As of three years ago they had found 500 + or - species on the Lodge grounds - not counting skippers. Click on: http://www.laselvajunglelodge.com/ -------------------- Hank Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ hbrodkin at earthlink.net SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association (SEABA) http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" by Bob Stewart, Priscilla Brodkin and Hank Brodkin http://home.earthlink.net/~hbrodkin/book.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Mikula" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 6:42 AM Subject: Re: South American trips > Tom > Your friend may want to check out http://www.Sachalodge.com/ which > is located on the shore of Ecuador's Napo River. The web site will > explain it quite nicely and it would also be very easy for your > friend to schedule a side trip to the Galapagos. Sacha does have a > working butterfly farm so there will be opportunities to get some > great pictures of newly emerged leps. They have many other activities > as well. > > And Ron this would be another example of a sustainable resource. > Rick > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From hbrodkin at earthlink.net Thu Aug 29 12:26:48 2002 From: hbrodkin at earthlink.net (Hank Brodkin) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:26:48 -0700 Subject: South American trips References: <3D6E24C8.A0E1B315@epix.net> Message-ID: <000901c24f78$e0654c00$08148144@theriver> Also, if your friend wants to collect - you had best check any lodge you go to on their policy. Hank ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Mikula" To: Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 6:42 AM Subject: Re: South American trips > Tom > Your friend may want to check out http://www.Sachalodge.com/ which > is located on the shore of Ecuador's Napo River. The web site will > explain it quite nicely and it would also be very easy for your > friend to schedule a side trip to the Galapagos. Sacha does have a > working butterfly farm so there will be opportunities to get some > great pictures of newly emerged leps. They have many other activities > as well. > > And Ron this would be another example of a sustainable resource. > Rick > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us Thu Aug 29 17:14:05 2002 From: Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us (Mike Quinn) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:14:05 -0500 Subject: Sedentary habit of S. FL. lep populations - surprising? Message-ID: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72C084BC174@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> James, I don't think it's surprising at all that the P. agarithe population in south Florida would be sedentary. Basically, if you were surrounded on three side by near certain death (the Atlantic Ocean) you'd be sedentary too! Over time, many island dwelling birds lose their wings. Similarly, I believe that I read that a new insect (naturally) introduced to a Hawaiian Island is (far?) more likely to come from either Asia or North America, both over 3,000 miles distant, than from any of the other Hawaiian Islands that might be just a few hundred miles distant. Mike Quinn ______________________________ Texas Entomology http://home.satx.rr.com/txento --------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Orange Phoebis in Virginia From: "Dr. James Adams" Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:09:49 -0400 I agree that it is likely P. agarithe. Surprisingly, however, P. agarithe in Florida appears to be very, very sedentary with records for even N. Florida being scarce. P. agarithe in Texas, however, is a well known wanderer. I have records for the Kansas City, MO and Lawrence, KS area (several) and I know it gets farther north sometimes in the fall. I have a tendency to attribute northern strays, even in the east, to the Texas populations and not the Floridian, though this is *pure conjecture* on my part. James K. Adams ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Thu Aug 29 17:47:38 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:47:38 -0400 Subject: agarithe References: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72C084BC174@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Message-ID: <002501c24fa5$b1dddaa0$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Quinn" Subject: RE: Sedentary habit of S. FL. lep populations - surprising? > James, I don't think it's surprising at all that the P. agarithe population > in south Florida would be sedentary. Basically, if you were surrounded on > three side by near certain death (the Atlantic Ocean) you'd be sedentary > too! > Over time, many island dwelling birds lose their wings. > Similarly, I believe that I read that a new insect (naturally) introduced to > a Hawaiian Island is (far?) more likely to come from either Asia or North > America, both over 3,000 miles distant, than from any of the other Hawaiian > Islands that might be just a few hundred miles distant. Mike Quinn I have never encountered an agarithe here in coastal South Carolina in over 30 years. BUT, I have never seen an Orange Barred (P. philea) here either and they are known to actually breed here at times. My vote is for a P. philea which can look pretty orange - esp. if it was a female. I think this is much more likely. Charleston is the type locality of P. sennae eubule. It took many years to convince me that it is resident here all year. Now there is no doubt. The first Cloudless I encountered in western NC mountains this year was in April. Not only does it head north real early but adults are capable of enduring extended freezing temps. Ron Gatrelle ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rhilton at CSA.com Fri Aug 30 07:46:21 2002 From: rhilton at CSA.com (Hilton, Rob) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:46:21 -0400 Subject: Sedentary habit of S. FL. lep populations - surprising? Message-ID: Actually many island birds loose their ability to fly! They all have wings (however vestigial). Rob Hilton -----Original Message----- From: Mike Quinn [mailto:Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us] Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 5:14 PM To: Leps-L (LEPS-L at LISTS.YALE.EDU ) Subject: RE: Sedentary habit of S. FL. lep populations - surprising? James, I don't think it's surprising at all that the P. agarithe population in south Florida would be sedentary. Basically, if you were surrounded on three side by near certain death (the Atlantic Ocean) you'd be sedentary too! Over time, many island dwelling birds lose their wings. Similarly, I believe that I read that a new insect (naturally) introduced to a Hawaiian Island is (far?) more likely to come from either Asia or North America, both over 3,000 miles distant, than from any of the other Hawaiian Islands that might be just a few hundred miles distant. Mike Quinn ______________________________ Texas Entomology http://home.satx.rr.com/txento --------------------------------------- Subject: RE: Orange Phoebis in Virginia From: "Dr. James Adams" Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:09:49 -0400 I agree that it is likely P. agarithe. Surprisingly, however, P. agarithe in Florida appears to be very, very sedentary with records for even N. Florida being scarce. P. agarithe in Texas, however, is a well known wanderer. I have records for the Kansas City, MO and Lawrence, KS area (several) and I know it gets farther north sometimes in the fall. I have a tendency to attribute northern strays, even in the east, to the Texas populations and not the Floridian, though this is *pure conjecture* on my part. James K. Adams ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rhilton at CSA.com Fri Aug 30 08:05:28 2002 From: rhilton at CSA.com (Hilton, Rob) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:05:28 -0400 Subject: agarithe Message-ID: Ron, The USGS maps http://www.npsc.nbs.gov/resource/distr/LEPID/bflyusa/usa/754.htm http://www.npsc.nbs.gov/resource/distr/LEPID/bflyusa/usa/757.htm show no records for South Carolina for either agarithe or philea. When have they bred in the state? Curious, Rob Hilton rhilton at csa.com Bethesda, Md. -----Original Message----- From: Ron Gatrelle [mailto:gatrelle at tils-ttr.org] Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 5:48 PM To: Leplist Subject: Re: agarithe I have never encountered an agarithe here in coastal South Carolina in over 30 years. BUT, I have never seen an Orange Barred (P. philea) here either and they are known to actually breed here at times. My vote is for a P. philea which can look pretty orange - esp. if it was a female. I think this is much more likely. [snip] Ron Gatrelle ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Fri Aug 30 10:04:17 2002 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ecology Today, 2 September and 9 September Message-ID: <20020830140417.73736.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com> Greetings:) On Monday, Time: 11-Noon EDST Tune 1520 AM (Tampa Bay Area) or simulcast on the WWW. There is a slow stream by camcorder and the shows are re-broadcast on the internet only... everyday 5-6 PM on a random basis. This week's show (2 September)Will feature Luke Melton and he is goingf to pose some dynamic new theories to do with ?Will Global Warming Cause A New Ice Age?: The Oceanic Conveyor Belt and its relationship to global climate change." These are provocative new theories and will pose questions which need to be answered. Katy anderson and i will CO-Host the show. On September 9, I will be joined by 4 ladies from 3 of my local Audubon Chapters. Barbara Zias and Monique Abrams from St. Petersburg Audubon Society. Marianne Korosky of Clearwater Audubon (I am a member of both)will be joining us also. These 3 ladies have gone from birding to ornithology and are serious amateurs engaged in fun research! Last but not least is Anne Paul, a professional biologist who with her husband, Rich Paul work for Audubon of Florida's Coastal Islands Sanctuary Program. Lots to say and do so please join us. Incidentally, Ann and rich will join us on the 30th of september for a show on their work and Audubon of Florida. 1520 AM Tampa Bay and http://www.hawkradio.com. (supported by RealPlayer) a free download). e mail: dj at hawkradio.com EcologyToday at aol.com Bulletin board: http://www.RJP.eboard.com Supported By: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri Call In: 813-253-7592 *************************************************************************************************** ECOLOGY TODAY is a production of the Office of Environmental Communications [ECO} an integral part of the Institute of Ecological and Environmental Studies [IEES]. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Produced and Directed by Bob Parcelles, Jr. Chairman of IEES and CO-hosted by Stephen Garrett Komlos, Lynn Marshall, Joe Murphy, Katy Anderson and BJ Lower...Naturalists, educators. activists and biologists working together to keep it "Green and Clean". Katy Anderson, Director ECO, is our Environmental Communications Specialist and also assists in production. All are members and directors of IEES. This Eco-team brings you the most up-to-date information on local, state and national environmental topics and issues. Each week from 1-3 guests are on the show for your listening pleasure and enlightenment. Long distance guests as well as on-site broadcasting are in the works. Coming soon... FM, Public Access and PBS. ********************************************************************** Thanks and see ya on the radio, Bob ##################################################################### ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL Ecologist/Ethologist, RJP Associates CEO, PROactive Ecology Solutions Institute of Ecological and Environmental Studies (IEES) rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jadams at em.daltonstate.edu Fri Aug 30 11:58:07 2002 From: jadams at em.daltonstate.edu (Dr. James Adams) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:58:07 -0400 Subject: sennae In-Reply-To: <002501c24fa5$b1dddaa0$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> References: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72C084BC174@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020830115553.00a580f0@em.daltonstate.edu> Ron wrote: >Charleston is the type locality of P. sennae eubule. It took many years to >convince me that it is resident here all year. Now there is no doubt. >The first Cloudless I encountered in western NC mountains this year was in >April. Not only does it head north real early but adults are capable of >enduring extended freezing temps. It certainly is. I have seen P. sennae here in NW Georgia well into December most years. I don't think it makes it through the winter here, but it does not far south of here. I, too, see it early in the year (April, May) every year. James James K. Adams Phone: (706)272-4427 FAX: (706)272-2235 Visit the Georgia Lepidoptera Website: www.daltonstate.edu/galeps/ Also check out the Southern Lepidopterists' Society new Website: www.southernlepsoc.org/ -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Aug 30 14:53:50 2002 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:53:50 -0400 Subject: agarithe References: Message-ID: <000a01c25056$9451e600$a01c3b44@goosck01.sc.comcast.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hilton, Rob" To: "Ron Gatrelle" ; "Leplist" Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 8:05 AM Subject: RE: agarithe > Ron, > > The USGS maps > http://www.npsc.nbs.gov/resource/distr/LEPID/bflyusa/usa/754.htm > http://www.npsc.nbs.gov/resource/distr/LEPID/bflyusa/usa/757.htm > show no records for South Carolina for either agarithe or philea. When have they bred in the state? > > Curious, > > Rob Hilton > rhilton at csa.com > Bethesda, Md. The lack of dots on SC are now becoming an almost infamous situation among the USGS's otherwise very good site. Historically, there has only be three or four major butterfly collectors in SC. The only modern one is myself (34years since I moved here). Dick Dominick was a moth specialist and rarely sampled anything off his plantation. (I got him out some so he could get some hairstreaks etc.). There are only two modern papers on butterflies & skippers of SC. Both are mine. These were published long ago. Just about all the original dots Opler had for SC were my data. Moving ahead to "current" times. Thanks to the great increase in butterfly watchers North and South Carolina watchers have added hundreds of new county and many new state records for these two states. The place to find these is the Carolina Butterfly Society http://www.carolinabutterflysociety.org/ A particularly good link from there is the "Checklist for North Carolina Butterflies!" Maintained by Harry LeGrand of the NC DNR. I searched the archives a bit but was unable to find the specific account from last year where philea took up breeding here in the SC coastal area. Sumter area. So anyone wanting to know about what occurs in SC need not consult the USGS - go to Carolina Butterfly Society. Ron Gatrelle ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From cwcook at duke.edu Fri Aug 30 15:38:51 2002 From: cwcook at duke.edu (Will Cook) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:38:51 -0400 Subject: Orange Phoebis in Virginia References: Message-ID: <3D6FC9CB.92E6408@duke.edu> Rob, Have you considered the possibility of a large Orange Sulphur (Colias eurytheme) (not to be confused with the confusingly named Large Orange Sulphur (Phoebis agarithe))? On the Croatan National Forest (NC) count Sunday, I saw a large orange butterfly that seemed to be the same size as many of the Cloudless Sulphurs (Phoebis sennae) the we were seeing with it. It had me excited for a minute until I was able to get a good look at it perched -- it had all the typical markings of an Orange Sulphur (Colias eurytheme). It was just unusually big. We had about 300 Cloudless Sulphurs on this count but only 1 Orange Sulphur. I'd think it would be tough to tell that from a Cloudless Sulphur at 55 mph! Will -- Charles W. "Will" Cook w 919-660-7423 http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook cwcook at duke.edu Biology Dept., Duke Univ., Box 90340, Durham, NC 27708 "Hilton, Rob" wrote: > > Around 1 or 2 pm, Saturday August 24, as I was driving north on US 13 in northern Northampton County, Virginia, I saw a large, orange butterfly flying over the road. It seemed to be identical in shape, size, altitude, and behavior to the many Cloudless Sulphurs (Phoebis sennae) that I had noted that day. However, it was essentially orange. I drove more or less under it and kept on going, as I figured relocating it would be impossible. This butterfly was probably 12 feet or so above the road as I was traveling north around 55 mph. I knew that there are only a handful of records anywhere near this far north for other Phoebis species, and I figured trying to relocate a single butterfly along a busy highway was next to impossible. The only other non-Cloudless Phoebis sulphurs I have ever seen were Large Orange (P. agarithe) and Orange-barred (P. philea) nine years ago in Texas. This past weekend I saw 150-200 Cloudless Sulphurs, both from the car and while walking. > > All the Cloudless Sulphurs were quite obvious. I frequently saw them flying across US 13 at heights of 6 to 15 feet, as well as closer to the ground along the side of the highway. I think I saw around 200 individuals during the three days I was in the Eastern Shore of Virginia, and I am quite familiar with Phoebis sennae, having seen thousands of them one day in 1998 at Point Lookout, Maryland as well as many around Cape May, NJ, and various other parts of the Middle Atlantic states. I didn't note any Colias sulphurs at all this weekend. I am quite familiar with the Orange Sulphur (Colias eurytheme) and have seen a few Sleepy Oranges (Eurema nicippe) too. > > The USGS website shows that Orange-barred Sulphur has been noted from three western Virginia counties, single counties in both central Pennsylvania and New Jersey, and three counties in New York and New England. It also shows that Large Orange Sulphur has been found in two counties in central Maryland, and single counties in New York, New Jersey, and Maine. The nearest counties to the south are in Georgia and northeast Florida, respectively. > > I welcome comments on this observation. > > Returning to the Washington, DC, area on August 26 I noted my last Cloudless Sulphur just east of the Nanticoke River bridge at the Wicomico / Dorchester County line. > > Best, > > Rob Hilton > rhilton at csa.com > Bethesda, Md. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From birdcr at concentric.net Fri Aug 30 17:10:59 2002 From: birdcr at concentric.net (Randy Emmitt) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:10:59 -0400 Subject: Sulphur question/Bronze Coppers Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020830165345.02625db8@mail.concentric.net> Folks, Today I visited a small nature preserve in Chilo, Ohio (Cermont County). Right away I found 3-4 male Bronze Copper Lycaena hyllus, I was just lucky to find these I guess and they posed very nicely for photos. Bad news is the site where I found them is slated to be bull dosed on Tuesday to expand the pond there. I might return there on Sunday. Anyway I saw loads of Orange Sulphur, Colias eurytheme and a couple of Clouded Sulphur, Colias philodice. Two of the sulphurs I saw struck me as different. They both were slightly small for C. philodice and pale yellow. The forewing looked like C. eurytheme yet the hind wing looked to have no dark margins at all. What it looked like was a huge Barred Yellow, Eurema daira with holes in the forewing margins. My take is it was likely a C. eurytheme as one is close to mine in Tomas J. Allen's book, yet I've never seen this before. And of course I couldn't get close enough for photos. Any takers on the ID of these sulphurs? Randy Emmitt in Cincy, Ohio www.rlephoto.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Fri Aug 30 17:17:57 2002 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:17:57 -0700 Subject: [leps-talk] Sulphur question/Bronze Coppers Message-ID: <6506849CAEBBE24E913A22806016E4060641F29F@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> - from the verbal description I would guess at them being females of one or the other of the two species. I have seen females with very dark fw borders altho they still have some pale inclusions. The lack of dark border on the hindwing points to females also -- -----Original Message----- From: Randy Emmitt [mailto:birdcr at concentric.net] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:11 PM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu; leps-talk Subject: [leps-talk] Sulphur question/Bronze Coppers Folks, Today I visited a small nature preserve in Chilo, Ohio (Cermont County). Right away I found 3-4 male Bronze Copper Lycaena hyllus, I was just lucky to find these I guess and they posed very nicely for photos. Bad news is the site where I found them is slated to be bull dosed on Tuesday to expand the pond there. I might return there on Sunday. Anyway I saw loads of Orange Sulphur, Colias eurytheme and a couple of Clouded Sulphur, Colias philodice. Two of the sulphurs I saw struck me as different. They both were slightly small for C. philodice and pale yellow. The forewing looked like C. eurytheme yet the hind wing looked to have no dark margins at all. What it looked like was a huge Barred Yellow, Eurema daira with holes in the forewing margins. My take is it was likely a C. eurytheme as one is close to mine in Tomas J. Allen's book, yet I've never seen this before. And of course I couldn't get close enough for photos. Any takers on the ID of these sulphurs? Randy Emmitt in Cincy, Ohio www.rlephoto.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/CCYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> TILS Motto: "We can not protect that which we do not know" ? 1999 Subscribe: TILS-leps-talk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com Post message: TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com Archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TILS-leps-talk/messages Unsubscribe: TILS-leps-talk-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com For more information: http://www.tils-ttr.org Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jhimmel at mindspring.com Sat Aug 31 13:18:27 2002 From: jhimmel at mindspring.com (jh) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:18:27 -0400 Subject: Help with moth ID? Message-ID: Hi Folks - I found this little moth (pyralid?) today zipping around in a marsh (Connecticut, US). Any idea of what it is? It's only about a quarter inch across. Photo at http://booksandnature.homestead.com/Misc.html Many thanks - John <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jrlyons at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 31 13:58:03 2002 From: jrlyons at bellsouth.net (Joel) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 12:58:03 -0500 Subject: Help with moth ID? References: Message-ID: <3D7103AB.DC6EFC12@bellsouth.net> Cool moth. jh wrote: > Hi Folks - > > I found this little moth (pyralid?) today zipping around in a marsh > (Connecticut, US). > Any idea of what it is? It's only about a quarter inch across. > > Photo at http://booksandnature.homestead.com/Misc.html > > Many thanks - > > John > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > John Himmelman > Killingworth, CT > jhimmel at mindspring.com > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Visit my websites at: > www.johnhimmelman.com > www.connecticutmoths.com > www.ctamphibians.com > ____________________________ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jhimmel at mindspring.com Sat Aug 31 14:07:50 2002 From: jhimmel at mindspring.com (jh) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:07:50 -0400 Subject: [moth-rah] Help with moth ID? In-Reply-To: <005e01c2511e$30207f20$847fead8@net> Message-ID: Think you're right, Cindy - thanks. It's a Choreutid for sure. Thanks! John <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Himmelman Killingworth, CT jhimmel at mindspring.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: www.johnhimmelman.com www.connecticutmoths.com www.ctamphibians.com ____________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Mead [mailto:lilwings at eisw.net] Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 2:43 PM To: LEPS-L at LISTS.YALE.EDU; Lep-TILS; jh Subject: Re: [moth-rah] Help with moth ID? hi John- what a beautiful moth. I opened up my Covell guide to plate 63, moth 1- Prochoreutis inflatella looks very similar to this moth, family Choreutidae. Take a look and see whatcha think :) best, Cindy 'It is the ancient wisdom of birds that battles are best fought with song.' (Richard Nelson) WoodSong www.northwoodsong.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT TILS Motto: "We can not protect that which we do not know" ? 1999 Subscribe: TILS-moth-rah-subscribe at yahoogroups.com Post message: TILS-moth-rah at yahoogroups.com Archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TILS-moth-rah/messages Unsubscribe: TILS-moth-rah-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com For more information: http://www.tils-ttr.org/about.html Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20020831/2517241b/attachment.html