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<DIV>
<DIV>Doug,</DIV>
<DIV>The article below says Bt corn was 19% of the crop then. It's 80-90% now.
While all of this Monarch concern has been going on, we have lost 5 prairie
obligate butterflies in the tall-grass prairie/ Bt corn region (my data in
Iowa). Our prairies are surrounded by corn.</DIV>
<DIV>Dennis Schlicht</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=mailto:mexicodoug@aol.com
href="mailto:mexicodoug@aol.com">MexicoDoug</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=mailto:monarch@saber.net
href="mailto:monarch@saber.net">monarch@saber.net</A> ; <A
title=mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu
href="mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:35
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Leps-l] [leps-talk] Monarch
Armageddon</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>"Doug, it was Lincoln Brower who first set the precedent<BR>for
using the word "Armageddon" in this article and others like
it:"<BR><BR>Paul,<BR><BR>Huh ;-0 ??? I honestly didn't know and wouldn't
expect he was the <BR>source.<BR><BR>I wonder what the majority of unbiased
scientists think of someone of <BR>Lincoln Brower's repute throwing out words
such as "Armageddon" to <BR>describe the evolving sciences in
agro-biotechnology. This is really <BR>an insult to science;
'Armageddon' has deeply religious connotations <BR>and is from the New
Testament Bible the destruction of the Devil an <BR>epic battle when God comes
down and unleashes his fury. What place do <BR>such religious
overtone-statements have in science other than to <BR>polarize/bias, divert
and offend researchers and constructive <BR>discussion?<BR><BR>I just Googled,
and sadly it seems you are right. I found this article <BR>in Mother
Jones that Brower had written in 2001, which was a result of <BR>the GMO
scandal that developed at that time:<BR><BR><A
title=http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/85
href="http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/85">http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/85</A><BR><BR>It
gives me insight, to say the least.<BR><BR>It seems that Brower for some
reason couldn't participate in the USDA <BR>grant for the research into the
GMO-larva topic program and $200,000 <BR>grant (which he considered a
pittance). Another diverse team of <BR>experts with some of the finest
academic credentials in this country <BR>was selected and a paper resulted
published in the most prestigious <BR>peer reviewed journal in the United
States - The Proceedings of the <BR>National Academy of Sciences:<BR><BR><A
title=http://www.pnas.org/content/98/21/11937.abstract?sid=e059121b-ade8-4518-895c-2c10e4c5b113
href="http://www.pnas.org/content/98/21/11937.abstract?sid=e059121b-ade8-4518-895c-2c10e4c5b113">http://www.pnas.org/content/98/21/11937.abstract?sid=e059121b-ade8-4518-895c-2c10e4c5b113</A><BR><BR>Brower's
political statement printed in Mother Jones strikes me as a <BR>scathing,
rambling condemnation and conspiracy theory - political <BR>mobilization
strategy. Is that an appropriate place to refute a <BR>publication by
trashing everyone in government and industry? Or would <BR>it be better
to respond in the same peer review journal which accepts
<BR>contrary/disagreement submissions in a specific format for this purpose
<BR>called "Letters to the PNAS". I couldn't find any retort.
Maybe <BR>you'll have better luck:<BR><BR><A
title=http://www.pnas.org/cgi/collection/letters
href="http://www.pnas.org/cgi/collection/letters">http://www.pnas.org/cgi/collection/letters</A><BR><BR>In
the 1960's time frame Lincoln had the honor to be published in thwe <BR>PNAS
himself, at least 4 times. He is also an excellent speaker.<BR><BR>Is
the "Bt-corn killing monarch larvae" in the field still <BR>objectionable by
ecologists anymore, on a scientific basis? Now I think <BR>it finally hit me
why the monarch topic is avoided by some list
<BR>members.<BR><BR>Best<BR>Doug<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
Paul Cherubini <<A title=mailto:monarch@saber.net
href="mailto:monarch@saber.net">monarch@saber.net</A>><BR>To: Leps List
<<A title=mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu
href="mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</A>><BR>Sent:
Fri, Feb 15, 2013 4:46 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [Leps-l] [leps-talk] Monarch
Armageddon<BR><BR>On Feb 15, 2013, at 1:00 PM, MexicoDoug
wrote:<BR><BR>> I added the search term "Armageddon" for
fun.<BR><BR>Doug, it was Lincoln Brower who first set the precedent<BR>for
using the word "Armageddon" in this article and others like it:<BR><A
title=http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/july2011/GMcropsmonarchbutterflieshabitat.php
href="http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/july2011/GMcropsmonarchbutterflieshabitat.php">http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/july2011/GMcropsmonarchbutterflieshabitat.php</A><BR><BR>In
the article Lincoln said this about Roundup herbicide use<BR>in the GMO crops
of the upper Midwest:<BR><BR>“It kills everything. It’s biodiversity
Armageddon,"<BR><BR>And Lincoln and Chip Taylor collaborated on a paper<BR>and
wrote: "We conclude that, because of the extensive<BR>use of glyphosate
herbicide on crops that are genetically<BR>modified to resist the herbicide,
milkweeds will disappear<BR>almost completely from croplands."<BR><BR>But the
critically important information they don't mention<BR>in their paper is that
the field margins of these Roundup<BR>treated GMO crops are teaming with
bumblebees, honeybees,<BR>monarchs and butterflies like this:<BR><A
title=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCOJnJU1UE
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCOJnJU1UE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCOJnJU1UE</A><BR><BR>So
those GMO croplands are not hardly a legitimate<BR>example of
"Biodiversity Armageddon"<BR><BR>Paul Cherubini<BR>El Dorado,
Calif.<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Leps-l
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu
href="mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</A><BR><A
title=http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l
href="http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l">http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l</A><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Leps-l
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu
href="mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</A><BR><A
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href="http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l">http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>