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<DIV>
<DIV>Doug,</DIV>
<DIV>They were doing Ok through the 80's and most of the 90's but then were
wiped out by the late 2000's. Poweshiek numbers went from around 100 on one site
to none by 2010. These species were on <STRONG>preserves</STRONG>, not farm
land, but were surrounded by row crops. Gone or nearly so are O. poweshiek, A.
arogos, H. dacotae, H. ottoe and C. inornata. A few others are not far
behind.</DIV>
<DIV>Dennis Schlicht</DIV>
<DIV>Iowa Lepidoptera Project</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=mailto:mexicodoug@aol.com
href="mailto:mexicodoug@aol.com">MexicoDoug</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=mailto:dws1108@msn.com
href="mailto:dws1108@msn.com">dws1108@msn.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu
href="mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:54
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Leps-l] [leps-talk] Monarch
Armageddon</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dennis,<BR><BR>It would be helpful to know whether these
species' disappearances in <BR>your area were doing well before the Bt corn,
or already on the brink <BR>of loss due to the farming practices. Also,
whether this loss you've <BR>documented is due to the larva of the respective
species ingesting <BR>amounts toxic to them and dying due to it as was
proposed by the <BR>Cornell group. If it wasn't, I'd argue the unfortunate
situation was, <BR>at best, not helped by a raging controversy which IMO
served to divert <BR>and divide attention from these issues, and not present
work in <BR>alternate peer reviewed journals - which could be as simple as
computer <BR>models to maintain a greater degree of biodiversity.<BR><BR>Could
a more collaborative environment have come up with real solutions <BR>and
perhaps a coordinated crop rotation scheme which maintained some <BR>useful
wild area interspersed intelligently (where students at local ag <BR>colleges
in a supportive roll could participate in the design as part <BR>of their
curriculum)? Perhaps not. But it's not too late to find out <BR>-
I hope.<BR><BR>I'm not trying to be a Monday morning quarterback; and my post
was not <BR>in support of Bt-corn. I'm glad it's not in my backyard, and
how <BR>boring it must be to try to go Lepping in such an area. It's
seeing <BR>the tactics used by scientists we trust. My favorite
butterfly <BR>observing grounds was a unique mountain foothill habitat on
disturbed <BR>ground which had become overgrown and basically wild and teaming
with <BR>over 100 species of butterflies, and at any given time at least 1/3
<BR>that amount. Now, the many hectares, without exception, are parking
<BR>lots and malls and shopping areas in a series of new sprawled out
<BR>commercial centers - and at the boundaries are residential areas with
<BR>manicured lawns and the like. The development wiped out everything
<BR>except the cockroaches and people and occasional vagrant that ends up
<BR>plastered to a radiator grill.<BR><BR>I am sure we all are sensitive to
the overpopulation problem. Every <BR>year the US adds 3,000,000
people. In 1965 it was 194 million; today, <BR>over 315 million.
It is difficult for me to fathom how much equivalent <BR>habit is destroyed
for each person for their activities (imagine <BR>3,000,000 dumped
concentrated into your state - that is approximately <BR>the average amount by
state since 1965, btw) , "infrastructure <BR>development", and of course the
food they require. For some reason no <BR>one is having any success in
controlling this and we are stuck with <BR>these consequences
everywhere. We could outsource farming, by <BR>importing more food from
Canada, etc., but then we'd only be exporting <BR>the environmental drain with
it to other places...<BR><BR>Very sorry to hear what you
reported,<BR>Doug<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
Dennis Schlicht <<A title=mailto:dws1108@msn.com
href="mailto:dws1108@msn.com">dws1108@msn.com</A>><BR>To: leps-l <<A
title=mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu
href="mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</A>>;
MexicoDoug <<A title=mailto:mexicodoug@aol.com
href="mailto:mexicodoug@aol.com">mexicodoug@aol.com</A>><BR>Sent: Sat, Feb
16, 2013 9:48 am<BR>Subject: Re: [Leps-l] [leps-talk] Monarch
Armageddon<BR><BR>Doug,<BR>The article below says Bt corn was 19% of the crop
then. It's 80-90% <BR>now. While all of this Monarch concern has been going
on, we have lost <BR>5 prairie obligate butterflies in the tall-grass prairie/
Bt corn <BR>region (my data in Iowa). Our prairies are surrounded by
corn.<BR>Dennis Schlicht<BR> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: MexicoDoug<BR> To: <A title=mailto:monarch@saber.net
href="mailto:monarch@saber.net">monarch@saber.net</A> ; <A
title=mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu
href="mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</A><BR>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:35 AM<BR> Subject: Re:
[Leps-l] [leps-talk] Monarch Armageddon<BR><BR><BR>"Doug, it was
Lincoln Brower who first set the precedent<BR>for using the word
"Armageddon" in this article and others like
it:"<BR><BR>Paul,<BR><BR>Huh ;-0 ??? I honestly didn't know and
wouldn't expect he was the<BR>source.<BR><BR>I wonder what the
majority of unbiased scientists think of someone of<BR>Lincoln
Brower's repute throwing out words such as "Armageddon"
to<BR>describe the evolving sciences in agro-biotechnology. This
is really<BR>an insult to science; 'Armageddon' has deeply
religious connotations<BR>and is from the New Testament Bible the
destruction of the Devil an<BR>epic battle when God comes down and
unleashes his fury. What place <BR>do<BR>such religious
overtone-statements have in science other than to<BR>polarize/bias,
divert and offend researchers and
constructive<BR>discussion?<BR><BR>I just Googled, and sadly it
seems you are right. I found this <BR>article<BR>in Mother Jones
that Brower had written in 2001, which was a result <BR>of<BR>the
GMO scandal that developed at that time:<BR><BR><A
title=http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/85
href="http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/85">http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/85</A><BR><BR>It
gives me insight, to say the least.<BR><BR>It seems that Brower for
some reason couldn't participate in the USDA<BR>grant for the
research into the GMO-larva topic program and $200,000<BR>grant
(which he considered a pittance). Another diverse team
of<BR>experts with some of the finest academic credentials in this
country<BR>was selected and a paper resulted published in the most
prestigious<BR>peer reviewed journal in the United States - The
Proceedings of the<BR>National Academy of Sciences:<BR><BR><A
title=http://www.pnas.org/content/98/21/11937.abstract?sid=e059121b-ade8-4518-895c-2c10e4c5b113
href="http://www.pnas.org/content/98/21/11937.abstract?sid=e059121b-ade8-4518-895c-2c10e4c5b113">http://www.pnas.org/content/98/21/11937.abstract?sid=e059121b-ade8-4518-895c-2c10e4c5b113</A><BR><BR>Brower's
political statement printed in Mother Jones strikes me as
a<BR>scathing, rambling condemnation and conspiracy theory -
political<BR>mobilization strategy. Is that an appropriate place
to refute a<BR>publication by trashing everyone in government and
industry? Or <BR>would<BR>it be better to respond in the same peer
review journal which accepts <BR><BR>contrary/disagreement submissions in a
specific format for this purpose <BR><BR>called "Letters to the PNAS". I
couldn't find any retort. Maybe<BR>you'll have better
luck:<BR><BR><A title=http://www.pnas.org/cgi/collection/letters
href="http://www.pnas.org/cgi/collection/letters">http://www.pnas.org/cgi/collection/letters</A><BR><BR>In
the 1960's time frame Lincoln had the honor to be published in
<BR>thwe<BR>PNAS himself, at least 4 times. He is also an
excellent speaker.<BR><BR>Is the "Bt-corn killing monarch larvae"
in the field still<BR>objectionable by ecologists anymore, on a
scientific basis? Now I <BR>think<BR>it finally hit me why the
monarch topic is avoided by some
list<BR>members.<BR><BR>Best<BR>Doug<BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Paul Cherubini
&lt;monarch@saber.net&gt;<BR>To: Leps List
&lt;leps-l@mailman.yale.edu&gt;<BR>Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013
4:46 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [Leps-l] [leps-talk] Monarch
Armageddon<BR><BR>On Feb 15, 2013, at 1:00 PM, MexicoDoug
wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I added the search term "Armageddon" for
fun.<BR><BR>Doug, it was Lincoln Brower who first set the
precedent<BR>for using the word "Armageddon" in this article and
others like it:<BR><A
title=http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/july2011/GMcropsmonarchbutterflieshabitat.php
href="http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/july2011/GMcropsmonarchbutterflieshabitat.php">http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/july2011/GMcropsmonarchbutterflieshabitat.php</A><BR><BR>In
the article Lincoln said this about Roundup herbicide use<BR>in the GMO
crops of the upper Midwest:<BR><BR>“It kills everything. It’s
biodiversity Armageddon,"<BR><BR>And Lincoln and Chip Taylor
collaborated on a paper<BR>and wrote: "We conclude that, because
of the extensive<BR>use of glyphosate herbicide on crops that are
genetically<BR>modified to resist the herbicide, milkweeds will
disappear<BR>almost completely from croplands."<BR><BR>But the
critically important information they don't mention<BR>in their paper is
that the field margins of these Roundup<BR>treated GMO crops are
teaming with bumblebees, honeybees,<BR>monarchs and butterflies
like this:<BR><A title=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCOJnJU1UE
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCOJnJU1UE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCOJnJU1UE</A><BR><BR>So
those GMO croplands are not hardly a legitimate<BR>example of
"Biodiversity Armageddon"<BR><BR>Paul Cherubini<BR>El Dorado,
Calif.<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Leps-l
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu
href="mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</A><BR><A
title=http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l
href="http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l">http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l</A><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Leps-l
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu
href="mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</A><BR><A
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href="http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l">http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>