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<div>Roger, I could have phrased that better, as I do not know the answer as to whether a deemed “non-migratory” subspecies can significantly develop (or revert) to exhibit “migratory” behavior. </div><div><br></div><div>If an experiment were or has been done to release at the opportune moment the “non-migratory” Monarchs, say endemic to Palm Beach, FL, in the “migratory’s” geography to study its initial behavior, it could be convincing to me. I would expect the PB Monarchs to overwinter in Wisconsin if released there (and presumably perish), Rather than initiating/joining any migration. </div><div><br></div><div>That could be an argument in favor of recognizing a separate subspecies based on the single behavioral (migration) trait.</div><div><br></div><div>Are there any clear physical traits that separate the “non-migratory” Monarchs in FL from their migratory peers? I was just asking as I don’t know and was curious when you suggested that migratory behavior alone was a sufficient condition to define a subspecies. I originally referred to the Caribbean subspecies but sticking to non-migratory FL Monarchs is clearer for the purposes of my question.</div><div><br></div><div>Kindest wishes</div><div>Doug</div><div><br></div>
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On Friday, May 27, 2022, 11:46:31 AM EDT, Roger Kuhlman <rkuhlman@hotmail.com> wrote:
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Okay but how do certain Monarch populations get to make long-distance migrations and others do not. Also my understanding of a subspecies is that they are not necessarily reproductively segregated. I am not sure what you mean by segregated. Non-migratory Monarchs
are segregated from migratory populations as I understand it.</div>
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Roger Kuhlman</div>
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<div id="ydpcb1baa39yiv5176569916yqt51174" class="ydpcb1baa39yiv5176569916yqt9482240095"><div dir="ltr" id="ydpcb1baa39yiv5176569916divRplyFwdMsg"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt;"><b>From:</b> MexicoDoug <mexicodoug@aol.com><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 26, 2022 12:24 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Roger Kuhlman <rkuhlman@hotmail.com><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Leps-l] Finally Announced: The size of the Mexican monarch overwintering colonies this past winter.</font>
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<div>Calling something a subspecies based on migration to me would require demonstrating two segregating populations at the very minimum. The p. <span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-style:italic;">plexippus</span> ssp. is already split. Migration is one descriptor,
but not defining trait in my understanding?</div>
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<div>Is there evidence that Monarchs from <span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-style:italic;">p. megalippe </span>if that is a currently accepted division, have evidence of not migrating when released in the migratory areas? Just wondering, not judging.</div>
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<div>Kindest wishes,</div>
<div>Doug</div>
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<div>On Thursday, May 26, 2022, 11:04:08 AM EDT, Roger Kuhlman <rkuhlman@hotmail.com> wrote:
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That some Monarchs migrate has to be because they are genetically programed to do so. They do not learn or voluntarily choose to adopt this lifestyle so yes I would say the migrating Monarch is a subspecies. In any case migrating Monarchs are important piece
of Biodiversity and anything that threatens this Biodiversity is a very bad thing. Aren't we losing enough Biodiversity in the World today because of Human Overpopulation and Overdevelopment as it is?</div>
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Roger Kuhlman</div>
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Ann Arbor, Michigan</div>
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<div dir="ltr" id="ydpcb1baa39yiv5176569916x_ydp4569a103yiv5606311902divRplyFwdMsg"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt;"><b>From:</b> Leps-l <leps-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Stan Gorodenski <stanlep@commspeed.net><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2022 3:21 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> leps-l@mailman.yale.edu <leps-l@mailman.yale.edu><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Leps-l] Finally Announced: The size of the Mexican monarch overwintering colonies this past winter.</font>
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On 5/25/2022 11:47 AM, Roger Kuhlman wrote:<br clear="none">
> found there. Of course this present lack of Milkweeds can only be <br clear="none">
> detrimental to breeding Monarch populations in our area. Take away <br clear="none">
> masses on Common Milkweeds in the fields and open area, and Monarchs <br clear="none">
> are bound to suffer immensely. Who says we could not lose the <br clear="none">
> migrating Monarchs as a subspecies?<br clear="none">
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Are you saying that because they migrate they are a subspecies?<br clear="none">
Stan<br clear="none">
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