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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Gawd. “Subspecies” is a human taxonomic construct, does not necessarily map to all the vagaries now being observed at genetic level in nature. If migratory and non-migratory Monarch populations intermingle at times (and at times interbreed), then there will be continued gene exchange. If not, then over time genetic drift should lead to full speciation. In the meantime, why do we need to stuff fluid processes into fixed boxes, versus determining ongoing levels of gene exchange and development of geno/phenotypic divergences?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Just a though,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Rick<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Leps-l <leps-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger Kuhlman<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 27, 2022 11:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> MexicoDoug <mexicodoug@aol.com>; Leps List <leps-l@mailman.yale.edu><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Leps-l] Finally Announced: The size of the Mexican monarch overwintering colonies this past winter.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Okay but how do certain Monarch populations get to make long-distance migrations and others do not. Also my understanding of a subspecies is that they are not necessarily reproductively segregated. I am not sure what you mean by segregated. Non-migratory Monarchs are segregated from migratory populations as I understand it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Roger Kuhlman<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="98%" align=center></div><div id=divRplyFwdMsg><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='color:black'> MexicoDoug <<a href="mailto:mexicodoug@aol.com">mexicodoug@aol.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 26, 2022 12:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> Roger Kuhlman <<a href="mailto:rkuhlman@hotmail.com">rkuhlman@hotmail.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Leps-l] Finally Announced: The size of the Mexican monarch overwintering colonies this past winter.</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Calling something a subspecies based on migration to me would require demonstrating two segregating populations at the very minimum. The p. <i><span style='color:#202122'>plexippus</span></i> ssp. is already split. Migration is one descriptor, but not defining trait in my understanding?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Is there evidence that Monarchs from <i><span style='color:#202122'>p. megalippe </span></i>if that is a currently accepted division, have evidence of not migrating when released in the migratory areas? Just wondering, not judging.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Kindest wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Doug<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="x_ydp4569a103yahoo_quoted_4281057885"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Thursday, May 26, 2022, 11:04:08 AM EDT, Roger Kuhlman <<a href="mailto:rkuhlman@hotmail.com">rkuhlman@hotmail.com</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div id="x_ydp4569a103yiv5606311902"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>That some Monarchs migrate has to be because they are genetically programed to do so. They do not learn or voluntarily choose to adopt this lifestyle so yes I would say the migrating Monarch is a subspecies. In any case migrating Monarchs are important piece of Biodiversity and anything that threatens this Biodiversity is a very bad thing. Aren't we losing enough Biodiversity in the World today because of Human Overpopulation and Overdevelopment as it is?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Roger Kuhlman<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Ann Arbor, Michigan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><hr size=2 width="98%" align=center></span></div><div id="x_ydp4569a103yiv5606311902yqt19821"><div id="x_ydp4569a103yiv5606311902divRplyFwdMsg"><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='color:black'> Leps-l <<a href="mailto:leps-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">leps-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> on behalf of Stan Gorodenski <<a href="mailto:stanlep@commspeed.net">stanlep@commspeed.net</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2022 3:21 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Leps-l] Finally Announced: The size of the Mexican monarch overwintering colonies this past winter.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><br><br>On 5/25/2022 11:47 AM, Roger Kuhlman wrote:<br>> found there. Of course this present lack of Milkweeds can only be <br>> detrimental to breeding Monarch populations in our area. Take away <br>> masses on Common Milkweeds in the fields and open area, and Monarchs <br>> are bound to suffer immensely. Who says we could not lose the <br>> migrating Monarchs as a subspecies?<br><br>Are you saying that because they migrate they are a subspecies?<br>Stan<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Leps-l mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br><a href="https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l">https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="x_ydp4569a103yqt28988"><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>_______________________________________________<br>Leps-l mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu">Leps-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br><a href="https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l">https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>