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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Heartily agree. But does it need to be distance separation? Imagine a population of anteaters w/half-inch claws on average (but with randomly variable claw length), that were used to surviving on grubs at ½” down in a log. If another set of invasive grubs arrived that lived exclusively at ¾” down, then anteaters with randomly long claws (>= ¾”) could get at those new grubs and might diverge sympatrically, even while co-existing with other anteaters who still could feed on their customary, shallower-living prey. (This equilibrium might or might not be affected by the new feeding style, depending mainly on whether the long-clawed version tore the crud out of the grub logs to get at their new prey). Things like this are not unheard-of in nature.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Just a thought<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Good discussion,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Rick<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Leps-l <leps-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Walsh, Bruce - (jbwalsh)<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 29, 2022 3:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> leps-l@mailman.yale.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> [Leps-l] Monarchs - subspecies, genetics and migration<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I've followed this thread for a little while and have avoided commenting on it. In large part, because it started when I was in Nairobi, and had low band-width. Now my travels have now taken me to Hobart, with its higher bandwidth! Alas, no collecting/watching in either location, work-related (teaching and on an advisory committee).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From a genetics standpoint, the issue can be clearly framed in terms of gene exchange. In a classic paper, Sewall Wright (one of the founders of population genetics) noted that a single exchange of an individual between populations per generation is about all that is needed to keep two neutral subpopulations from diverging (more formally, 4Nm >> 1, where m is the exchange rate and N the population size). So the issue becomes: "is there something about the migrationing population that results in a drastic reduction in gene exchange with the non-migration population". Unless there is differential mate choice when they come into contact (which they will do each year), don't think the case can be made.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>bruce<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id=Signature><div><div id=divtagdefaultwrapper><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> <br>Bruce Walsh<br>Professor, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology<br>Professor, Public Health<br>Professor, BIO5 Institute<br>Professor, Plant Sciences<br>Adjunct Professor, Animal and Comparative Biomedical Sciences<br>Adjunct Professor, Molecular and Cellular Biology<br>Member, Graduate Committees on Applied Math, Insect Sciences, Genetics, Statistics<br>University of Arizona<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Evolution and Selection of Quantitative Traits (Oxford 2018)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a href="https://global.oup.com/academic/product/evolution-and-selection-of-quantitative-traits-9780198830870">https://global.oup.com/academic/product/evolution-and-selection-of-quantitative-traits-9780198830870</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0198830874">https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0198830874</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Genetics and Analysis of Quantitative Traits (Sinauer <Oxford> 1998)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a href="https://global.oup.com/academic/product/genetics-and-analysis-of-quantitative-traits-9780878934812">https://global.oup.com/academic/product/genetics-and-analysis-of-quantitative-traits-9780878934812</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Analysis-Quantitative-Traits-Michael/dp/0878934812">https://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Analysis-Quantitative-Traits-Michael/dp/0878934812</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Google Scholar<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=7iQEFwIAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao" id=LPlnk699724>https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=7iQEFwIAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>