[NHCOLL-L:5237] Re: Preserving a dead shark

Dirk Neumann Dirk.Neumann at zsm.mwn.de
Tue Feb 1 04:01:17 EST 2011


Hi Carol,

completely agree ;o)

All the best
Dirk


Am 28.01.2011 01:26, schrieb Carol Spencer:
> Hi all,
> I prepare many specimens from frozen animals for herps often (from 
> specimens that people have donated to us). We thaw them completely in 
> a cold room, then take tissues samples, and THEN prepare in formalin. 
> You cannot take tissue samples after the specimens has been fixed in 
> formalin. I have never had a problem with specimens being rotten or 
> disintegrating before they thaw completely. A bigger issue is the 
> specimens not turning out as nice as a fresh specimens because of 
> freezer burn, so for this reason it's best to get it out of the 
> freezer and prepared as soon as possible.
>
> -Carol
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Richard Rosenblatt 
> <rrosenblatt at ucsd.edu <mailto:rrosenblatt at ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>
>     I second (or third) the recommendations of  Dirk and John. It
>     should be totally unnecessary to inject a small shark. If you thaw
>     it in formalin the outer tissues will become fixed as it thaws and
>     prevent further diffusion. One refinement would be to put the
>     specimen in formalin for 30 minutes or so to let the skin harden
>     before slitting-keeps the body wall from gaping. All the chemistry
>     as recommended is simply not needed.
>
>
>
>
>         DIrk and SImon
>         My concern with thawing the shark prior to preservation is the
>         amount of tissue damage that occurs during freezing and
>         thawing which is why I reccomend thawing in fomaldehyde. Your
>         comments on this will be appreciated.
>         John
>
>         ----------
>         Sent from the Verizon network using Mobile Email
>
>         ------Original Message------
>
>             From: Dirk Neumann <Dirk.Neumann at zsm.mwn.de
>             <mailto:Dirk.Neumann at zsm.mwn.de>>
>
>         To: <Couteaufin at aol.com
>         <mailto:Couteaufin at aol.com>>,<sej139 at yahoo.com
>         <mailto:sej139 at yahoo.com>>
>         Cc: <NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu <mailto:NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu>>
>         Date: Thu, Jan 27, 8:43 AM +0100
>         Subject: [NHCOLL-L:5211] Re: Preserving a dead shark
>
>         Hi Steven, Simon,
>
>         from experiences with preservation of our 200 something Etmopterid
>         sharks I would adjust Simon's procedure as follows:
>
>         Thaw the shark under cold water (don't use hot water)
>         Pin the fins prior to formalin fixation and try to get the
>         shark in a
>         somehow natural shape (elsewise you will fix the specimen as
>         bended as
>         retrieved from the freezer).
>         Take the tissue sample in advance (immediately after thawing),
>         best take
>         muscular tissue from inside of the body cavity by cutting the
>         abdomen IN
>         FRONT of the anus
>         Cut the body cavity to allow influx of formaldehyde solution
>         into the
>         belly; this works much better then injections and especially
>         allows
>         escape of the oil emerging from the liver which elsewise you
>         will have
>         an awful smelly preservation issue for years (see Simon
>         Moore's comments
>         on this, you may have a pH-issue with breaking fatty acids).
>         Consider to wash the specimen with a bit detergent after
>         recovery from
>         fixation to avoid too much oil in the alcohol.
>         Sharks are rather easy to preserve and not as sensitive as
>         most bony fishes.
>
>         Hope this helps
>
>         All the best
>         Dirk
>
>
>         Am 27.01.2011 00:22, schrieb Couteaufin at aol.com
>         <mailto:Couteaufin at aol.com>:
>
>              Hi Steven,
>              You shark - what you proposed re the formalin sounds fine
>             to me.  Once
>              fully thawed, inject it with 10% formalin (3.76%
>             formaldehyde) until
>              it just starts to swell ever-so slightly or the fluid
>             runs out again.  Make sure that you inject the brain area,
>             the area round the liver and
>              the pelvic cavity too.
>              You can then preserve it (after a few days) in 5%
>             formalin, alcohol
>              (gradually up a ladder of 20% stages) or whatever
>             preservative seems
>              easiest.  If you want DNA then don't leave it in formalin
>             for more
>              than 5 days and transfer to alcohol.  You will get some
>             lipid (as
>              yellow-brown globules) leaching in time from the liver in
>             particular,
>              as formalin will only preserve lipid.  Don't worry if the
>             fluid is
>              still clear but if it turns at all murky or dark brown,
>             check the pH
>              and change the fluid anyway for fresh.
>              Have fun and check out the website below, if time permits.!
>              With all good wishes, Simon
>
>              Simon Moore MIScT, FLS, ACR,
>              Conservator of Natural Sciences,
>              20 Newbury Street,
>              Whitchurch RG28 7DN.
>             www.natural-history-conservation.com
>             <http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>             <http://www.natural-history-conservation.com/>
>
>             http://uk.linkedin.com/in/naturalsciencespecimenconserve
>              In a message dated 26/01/2011 22:41:20 GMT Standard Time,
>             sej139 at yahoo.com <mailto:sej139 at yahoo.com> writes:
>
>                 Hi everyone, sorry to bother the list with something
>             that isn't
>                 really all that
>                 paleo related, but I was wondering if someone could
>             help me out. I
>                 recently got
>                 a roughly 1 foot long baby shark. Since it is so
>             young, I would
>                 like to preserve
>
>
>
>                 it. It is currently frozen in a block of ice until I
>             can figure
>                 out what to do
>                 with it. Since I would like to preserve it, I was
>             wondering what
>                 the best and/or
>
>
>
>                 easiest way to do that might be. I have been leaning
>             toward
>
>         >     getting some
>
>                 formaldehyde or formalin, injecting some into it and
>             preserving it
>                 in a jar with
>
>
>
>                 the rest. If that is best, how much should I inject
>             into it.
>
>                 Thanks for any help I receive,
>                           ~Steven
>
>                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                 Steven E. Jasinski
>                 Paleontological and Research Assistant
>                 State Museum of Pennsylvania
>
>
>                 Graduate Studies
>                 Department of Biology
>                 East Tennessee State University
>
>
>                 Phone: (717)586-9835
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>         --
>         Dirk Neumann
>
>         Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>         Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>         email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de <http://zsm.mwn.de>
>
>         Postanschrift:
>
>         Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>         Zoologische Staatssammlung München
>         Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Labor
>         Münchhausenstr. 21
>         81247 München
>
>         Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>         http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/
>
>         ---------
>
>         Dirk Neumann
>
>         Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>         Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>         email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de <http://zsm.mwn.de>
>
>         postal address:
>
>         Bavarian Natural History Collections
>         The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>         Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Lab
>         Muenchhausenstr. 21
>         81247 Munich (Germany)
>
>         Visit our section at:
>         http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Carol L. Spencer, Ph.D.
> Staff Curator of Herpetology & Researcher
> Museum of Vertebrate Zoology
> 3101 Valley Life Sciences Building
> University of California, Berkeley, CA, USA 94720-3160
> atrox10 at gmail.com <mailto:atrox10 at gmail.com>
> atrox at berkeley.edu <mailto:atrox at berkeley.edu>
> TEL: 510-643-5778 /FAX: 510-643-8238
>
> http://www.herpnet.org
> http://mvz.berkeley.edu/
> http://www.vertnet.org


-- 
Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Labor
Münchhausenstr. 21
81247 München

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Lab
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/

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