[Nhcoll-l] global unique identifiers and natural history collections

Sun Oct 14 14:32:07 EDT 2012

  Andrew and Paul --- Thanks for the great responses, and yes, there
are a LOT of devil in details issues about how such a service works.
We are definitely planning to make a prototype available as a web
service and then also have an easy to use web front-end as well.  We
really want to work those who are interested in early adoption, and to
help us figure out challenges along the way.  This is also very much
still a work in process, and specifications are being built now.  As
we move further along, we'll post more details and ask for input and
feedback at each step of the way.  I definitely think we need very
clear examples of the utility of such services, immediately, and in
the longer term, and we'll try to post those to the blog and more
widely as we move forward.  I am sure there are many other concerns
and the goal is to listen to those, help build something usable, and
move forward step.

  Thanks for the great feedback so far!

Best, Rob
https://sites.google.com/site/robgur/

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Bentley, Andrew Charles
<abentley at ku.edu> wrote:
> Paul
>
> I disagree completely.  It doesn't matter what the number is as long as it is unique - and if you have a service that is providing these numbers you can ensure that they are unique no matter what.  Think of the library scenario where books on the same subject can be next to each other on the shelf but have radically different ISBN numbers.  Does it really matter?  No.  It is simply a unique identifying number.  Depending on what numbering sequence they decided on, they would probably start at 100000000 so that leading zeros are not a problem.  For that matter it could be letters instead of numbers - that would also get rid of any consecutivity problems...
>
> Andy
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 14, 2012, at 6:17 PM, "Paul Callomon" <callomon at ansp.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm in favor of this concept, but here's a thing: if everyone took part, those numbers would quickly become very large. Say we used zeros to demonstrate that an unusually short number was simply from early in the series, and not a typo. Assuming there were more than 30 million specimens in the bank (not unreasonable; we have 10 million in our dry collection alone), you could thus theoretically have two adjacent specimens in a collection bearing the numbers 312598765 and 000008765. The potential for cock-ups is not absent...
>>
>>
>> Paul Callomon
>> Collections Manager in Malacology, Invertebrate Paleontology and General Invertebrates
>> THE ACADEMY OF NATURAL SCIENCES OF DREXEL UNIVERSITY
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway
>> Philadelphia, PA  19103
>> callomon at ansp.org
>> Tel. 215-405-5096
>> ansp.org
>> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter
>> Join us as we celebrate the Academy's 200th anniversary with a year of exciting events, special programs, and our bicentennial exhibit, The Academy at 200: The Nature of Discovery. www.ansp.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Bentley, Andrew Charles
>> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 1:12 PM
>> To: Robert Guralnick
>> Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] global unique identifiers and natural history collections
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> Yes, yes, yes!!!  I have been calling for this kind of initiative (maybe not vocally enough) for some time.  Most people I have spoken with about LSID's or GUID's are of the opinion that as long as there are competing or numerous standards (thereby making the term globally unique redundant) they are not interested in participating in any of the many initiatives in this field.  It makes a nonsense of the whole initiative to have competing standards or mechanisms of constructing GUIDs.
>>
>> Some sort of centralized GUID repository - along the lines of ISBN for libraries - is what we need for all natural history collections so that numbers assigned by the central repository would be guaranteed to be unique.
>>
>> This could then be incorporated into database data models and maybe a web service could also be employed to be able to assign these from directly soon the database as you are cataloging material.  Specify for one would be most interested in such an initiative.  We do already support GUIDs in our data model for specimens and taxa but with competing standards, very few of our users have employed this to any degree.
>>
>> Would be very interest in hearing about or assisting with developments in this regard.  There are some obvious problems that would need to be ironed out but I think it is definitely doable.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2012, at 4:58 PM, "Robert Guralnick" <Robert.Guralnick at colorado.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear List --- I have been curious about something, and hope you won't
>>> mind taking a moment to at least cogitate (or perhaps even
>>> respond) with some thoughts.  As digitization efforts continue to ramp
>>> up in collections, there is clearly an impetus to have global unique
>>> identifiers on physical specimens and downstream derivates such as
>>> images, metadata records, etc.   There are a fair number of arguments
>>> about how to do this, and lots of recommendations etc. One could argue
>>> there are TOO MANY recommendations and arguments!
>>>
>>> The key question is:  If there was a service that provided you, free
>>> of charge, with digital object identifiers (DOIs - those global unique
>>> identifiers associated with publications) that could be associated
>>> with your specimens, would you use it?
>>>
>>> More details on why I am asking (and what we view as a needed "reset"
>>> on the conversation) can be found in a recent blog post by the
>>> BiSciCol (pronounced "bicycle" and standing for Biological Science
>>> Collections Tracker) group:  http://biscicol.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Appreciate thoughts!  Will summarize here and on the blog!
>>> Best, Rob
>>>
>>> Dr. Rob Guralnick
>>> Curator and Assoc. Prof.
>>> CU Museum of Nat. Hist. and Dept. of Ecol. and Evol. Biol.
>>> University of Colorado, Boulder etc etc etc
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/robgur/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
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