From Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de  Sat May  1 04:49:42 2021
From: Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Joachim=20H=C3=A4ndel?=)
Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 10:49:42 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Antw:  reliable shelf labels
In-Reply-To: <CAOazKYTHxopA_7LJxC7wa+gFzTz_LgK3o=RuqcZZbZdeacVdkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOazKYTHxopA_7LJxC7wa+gFzTz_LgK3o=RuqcZZbZdeacVdkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <608D3246020000B30008F58E@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>

Hi Kathy,
Maybe you can use classical Label Holders. You can screw them on or possibly also solder or weld it on.
But I think Barcodes are a concern, however. Of course they are convenient, but in 50...100 years they will no longer be known. The readers will no longer exist and the data will no longer be accessible.

All the best
Joachim











--  
Joachim Haendel
                                                        
Center of Natural SciencesCollections
of the Martin-Luther-University
- Entomological Collection -

Domplatz 4
D-06099 Halle (Saale)
Germany

Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
Fax:  +49 345 - 55 27 248
Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de



>>> Kathy Omura <komura at nhm.org> 30.04.21 23.35 Uhr >>>
Hi Everyone,Is anyone using barcodes, attached to collection room shelves to track physical locations of specimens. We are looking for a reliable shelf label that won't fall off the metal shelves. We have used magnetic and sticky labels for taxonomic names but was wondering what other people are using. What works and what doesn't for durability and time efficiency.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Thank you, Kathy

-- 
Kathy Omura, Collection Manager
Marine Biodiversity Center
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
(213) 763-3386





 
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From LoudinS at si.edu  Mon May  3 11:29:51 2021
From: LoudinS at si.edu (Loudin, Sarah)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 15:29:51 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Positions Announcement,
 Registration - National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution
Message-ID: <MN2PR12MB33601402346581BDCD5954FCDC5B9@MN2PR12MB3360.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

The National Museum of Natural History, part of the Smithsonian Institution, is advertising for 4 registration positions reporting to the Supervisory Registrar.  Two of these positions will focus service in the Office of the Registrar, one will focus registration services for the Entomology Department and one will focus registration services for the Paleobiology Department.  This announcement closes on May 17, 2021.  Please use the links below to apply.

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/600000200<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usajobs.gov%2FGetJob%2FViewDetails%2F600000200&data=04%7C01%7CLoudinS%40si.edu%7Cd9447321b7bf479356a208d90e3eeec0%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637556485716838114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=lHSf3iUWVx4DSfaw1kYMu7lADod7rQuJ%2BVwO40DfgXM%3D&reserved=0> (DEU - public announcement)

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/599997800<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usajobs.gov%2FGetJob%2FViewDetails%2F599997800&data=04%7C01%7CLoudinS%40si.edu%7Cd9447321b7bf479356a208d90e3eeec0%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637556485716848119%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dXFKXKFu8KrDucZWCbuwT7KgX25q3gTVZHYX85YUpXM%3D&reserved=0> (MPA - federal status announcement)
Best regards,
Sarah

Sarah Loudin
Supervisory Registrar
Collections Program
MRC 170 Rm 85
National Museum of Natural History
10th Street & Constitution Ave NW
Washington, DC 20560
w 202.633.1633
loudins at si.edu<mailto:loudins at si.edu>

The National Museum of Natural History (NMNH) complies with all U.S. export and sanctions laws, as well as fish, wildlife and other regulations applicable to the importation and exportation of specimens and research materials. Please consider the country of origin and nature of any specimen, sample, object or material shipped to NMNH, and if applicable, ensure that it is properly licensed and otherwise compliant with U.S. law prior to shipment.

SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY

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From HawksC at si.edu  Mon May  3 12:28:08 2021
From: HawksC at si.edu (Hawks, Catharine)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 16:28:08 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Registration positions announcement - please send to
 your departments
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR12MB2547FAE91489B8B9F2B3D7EFDE5B9@BL0PR12MB2547.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR12MB3360E1C5A52FF676CD9D3BB4DC5B9@MN2PR12MB3360.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR12MB2547FAE91489B8B9F2B3D7EFDE5B9@BL0PR12MB2547.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB5111531522957E8E529C53E1BF5B9@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>


From: Loudin, Sarah <LoudinS at si.edu<mailto:LoudinS at si.edu>>
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 11:17 AM

Subject: Registration positions announcement - please send to your departments

Dear all,

The Office of the Registrar has 4 exciting position openings that went live today.  I am asking for you to forward this message to your departments to help spread the word.  Thank you! - Sarah


The National Museum of Natural History, part of the Smithsonian Institution, is advertising for 4 registration positions reporting to the Supervisory Registrar.  Two of these positions will focus service in the Office of the Registrar, one will focus registration services for the Entomology Department and one will focus registration services for the Paleobiology Department.  This announcement closes on May 17, 2021.  Please use the links below to apply.

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/600000200<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usajobs.gov%2FGetJob%2FViewDetails%2F600000200&data=04%7C01%7CLoudinS%40si.edu%7Cd9447321b7bf479356a208d90e3eeec0%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637556485716838114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=lHSf3iUWVx4DSfaw1kYMu7lADod7rQuJ%2BVwO40DfgXM%3D&reserved=0> (DEU - public announcement)

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/599997800<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usajobs.gov%2FGetJob%2FViewDetails%2F599997800&data=04%7C01%7CLoudinS%40si.edu%7Cd9447321b7bf479356a208d90e3eeec0%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637556485716848119%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dXFKXKFu8KrDucZWCbuwT7KgX25q3gTVZHYX85YUpXM%3D&reserved=0> (MPA - federal status announcement)
Best regards,
Sarah

Sarah Loudin
Registrar
Collections Program
MRC 170 Rm 85
National Museum of Natural History
10th Street & Constitution Ave NW
Washington, DC 20560
w 202.633.1633
loudins at si.edu<mailto:loudins at si.edu>

The National Museum of Natural History (NMNH) complies with all U.S. export and sanctions laws, as well as fish, wildlife and other regulations applicable to the importation and exportation of specimens and research materials. Please consider the country of origin and nature of any specimen, sample, object or material shipped to NMNH, and if applicable, ensure that it is properly licensed and otherwise compliant with U.S. law prior to shipment.

SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY


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From cleckie at nature.ca  Mon May  3 12:31:44 2021
From: cleckie at nature.ca (Carolyn Leckie)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 16:31:44 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] ACH
Message-ID: <YTBPR01MB234962E094371DED127E7619A15B9@YTBPR01MB2349.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Good morning,[cid:a2ab7b4c-c92d-443f-97c9-45e28c7394cf]<http://www.tfaforms.com/4902548>

[https://www.nature.ca/sites/all/themes/realdecoy/images/splash/splash-logo.jpg] <https://nature.ca/>

Saving the World with Evidence, Knowledge and Inspiration. (click to learn more)<https://nature.ca/en/about-us/museum-corporation/mission-mandate>
Sauver le monde avec des preuves, des connaissances et de l'inspiration. (cliquez pour en savoir plus)<https://nature.ca/fr/sujet-musee/mission-organisation/mission-organisation>

[https://nature.ca/email/signatures/generic/cmn_generic.jpg] <https://nature.ca/>

Emailfooter20201231_GetIntoEntrezDansLaNature.
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From studor at nature.ca  Mon May  3 12:45:24 2021
From: studor at nature.ca (Sean Tudor)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 16:45:24 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fw: [EXT] ACH
In-Reply-To: <YTBPR01MB234962E094371DED127E7619A15B9@YTBPR01MB2349.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <YTBPR01MB234962E094371DED127E7619A15B9@YTBPR01MB2349.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <YT1PR01MB236250CD18EABA0A2E763D9DC45B9@YT1PR01MB2362.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Please note that if you received the following message from the Account below - please not that this was spam that was accidentally broadcast through the address book
Do not Click the link

we apologise for the inconvenience.

Sean






Sean Tudor

Head, Collection Services and Information Management

Chef, Service des collections et gestion de l?information

Canadian Museum of Nature / Mus?e canadien de la nature

613-364-4122

343-542-8122 cell

studor at nature.ca

________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Carolyn Leckie <cleckie at nature.ca>
Sent: May 3, 2021 12:31 PM
To: Carolyn Leckie <cleckie at nature.ca>
Subject: [EXT][Nhcoll-l] ACH

COURRIEL EXTERNE. Ne cliquez sur aucun lien ou pi?ce jointe ? moins que vous ne connaissiez l'exp?diteur.
EXTERNAL EMAIL. Do not click any links or attachments unless you know the sender.
Good morning,[cid:a2ab7b4c-c92d-443f-97c9-45e28c7394cf]<http://www.tfaforms.com/4902548>

[https://www.nature.ca/sites/all/themes/realdecoy/images/splash/splash-logo.jpg] <https://nature.ca/>

Saving the World with Evidence, Knowledge and Inspiration. (click to learn more)<https://nature.ca/en/about-us/museum-corporation/mission-mandate>
Sauver le monde avec des preuves, des connaissances et de l'inspiration. (cliquez pour en savoir plus)<https://nature.ca/fr/sujet-musee/mission-organisation/mission-organisation>

[https://nature.ca/email/signatures/generic/cmn_generic.jpg] <https://nature.ca/>

Emailfooter20201231_GetIntoEntrezDansLaNature.
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From cassidyk at wsu.edu  Mon May  3 19:06:44 2021
From: cassidyk at wsu.edu (Cassidy, Kelly Michela)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 23:06:44 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Antw:  reliable shelf labels
In-Reply-To: <608D3246020000B30008F58E@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
References: <CAOazKYTHxopA_7LJxC7wa+gFzTz_LgK3o=RuqcZZbZdeacVdkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <608D3246020000B30008F58E@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <BY5PR01MB6003C784E8B870C99D156DEDCC5B9@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>

(I'm not sure from your question exactly what you're looking for, so this suggestion might be totally off-base.)

Finding a way to put a label on our metal fluid collections shelves was something I puzzled over for a while before coming up with a solution that met our needs. I wanted to be able to easily replace the labels without having to remove a taped label and retape a new one and I wanted the labels to be big enough to be easy to read and include the scientific and common names of the species on the shelf.  Since we operate on a shoe string budget (well, maybe more like a dental floss budget), it had to be a cheap solution.

Eventually, I came up with the idea of using Ziploc quart-sized freezer baggies to make pouches to hold labels. I cut off the top of the baggie (the "zipper"), then about an inch off the top of the clear side (so one side is a little shorter than the other). I tape the longer, back side of the baggie to the back of the front edge of the shelf. I provided pictures so the description will make more sense.

The baggies are cheap and easy to replace if they get torn. I print the shelf labels on card stock (heavy paper) and cut them down to size. A quart baggie holds a 6" x 5.5" label that can be easily removed and replaced. As a bonus, we can "color-code" our shelf labels. The teaching collections shelves have blue shelf and jar labels.




Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
School of Biological Sciences
Box 644236
Washington State University
Pullman, WA 99164-4236
509-335-3515

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Joachim H?ndel
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 1:50 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu; komura at nhm.org
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Antw: reliable shelf labels

Hi Kathy,
Maybe you can use classical Label Holders. You can screw them on or possibly also solder or weld it on.
But I think Barcodes are a concern, however. Of course they are convenient, but in 50...100 years they will no longer be known. The readers will no longer exist and the data will no longer be accessible.

All the best
Joachim



[cid:f836c626350e972ceea61d159d337d493fe7179271c85daa.mpf]





--
Joachim Haendel

Center of Natural SciencesCollections
of the Martin-Luther-University
- Entomological Collection -

Domplatz 4
D-06099 Halle (Saale)
Germany

Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
Fax:  +49 345 - 55 27 248
Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de<mailto:joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de>



>>> Kathy Omura <komura at nhm.org<mailto:komura at nhm.org>> 30.04.21 23.35 Uhr >>>
Hi Everyone,
Is anyone using barcodes, attached to collection room shelves to track physical locations of specimens. We are looking for a reliable shelf label that won't fall off the metal shelves. We have used magnetic and sticky labels for taxonomic names but was wondering what other people are using. What works and what doesn't for durability and time efficiency.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Thank you, Kathy

--
Kathy Omura, Collection Manager
Marine Biodiversity Center
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
(213) 763-3386
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From mbprondzinski at ua.edu  Mon May  3 19:14:04 2021
From: mbprondzinski at ua.edu (Mary Beth Prondzinski)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 23:14:04 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Antw:  reliable shelf labels
In-Reply-To: <BY5PR01MB6003C784E8B870C99D156DEDCC5B9@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <CAOazKYTHxopA_7LJxC7wa+gFzTz_LgK3o=RuqcZZbZdeacVdkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <608D3246020000B30008F58E@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>,
 <BY5PR01MB6003C784E8B870C99D156DEDCC5B9@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <BN8PR15MB2707E1B0E257674FEFB420E9D05B9@BN8PR15MB2707.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Great idea!
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 6:06 PM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Nhcoll-l] Antw: reliable shelf labels


(I?m not sure from your question exactly what you?re looking for, so this suggestion might be totally off-base.)



Finding a way to put a label on our metal fluid collections shelves was something I puzzled over for a while before coming up with a solution that met our needs. I wanted to be able to easily replace the labels without having to remove a taped label and retape a new one and I wanted the labels to be big enough to be easy to read and include the scientific and common names of the species on the shelf.  Since we operate on a shoe string budget (well, maybe more like a dental floss budget), it had to be a cheap solution.



Eventually, I came up with the idea of using Ziploc quart-sized freezer baggies to make pouches to hold labels. I cut off the top of the baggie (the ?zipper?), then about an inch off the top of the clear side (so one side is a little shorter than the other). I tape the longer, back side of the baggie to the back of the front edge of the shelf. I provided pictures so the description will make more sense.



The baggies are cheap and easy to replace if they get torn. I print the shelf labels on card stock (heavy paper) and cut them down to size. A quart baggie holds a 6? x 5.5? label that can be easily removed and replaced. As a bonus, we can ?color-code? our shelf labels. The teaching collections shelves have blue shelf and jar labels.









Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum

School of Biological Sciences

Box 644236

Washington State University

Pullman, WA 99164-4236

509-335-3515



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Joachim H?ndel
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 1:50 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu; komura at nhm.org
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Antw: reliable shelf labels



Hi Kathy,
Maybe you can use classical Label Holders. You can screw them on or possibly also solder or weld it on.
But I think Barcodes are a concern, however. Of course they are convenient, but in 50...100 years they will no longer be known. The readers will no longer exist and the data will no longer be accessible.

All the best

Joachim







[cid:f836c626350e972ceea61d159d337d493fe7179271c85daa.mpf]











--

Joachim Haendel



Center of Natural SciencesCollections
of the Martin-Luther-University
- Entomological Collection -

Domplatz 4
D-06099 Halle (Saale)
Germany

Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
Fax:  +49 345 - 55 27 248

Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de<mailto:joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de>





>>> Kathy Omura <komura at nhm.org<mailto:komura at nhm.org>> 30.04.21 23.35 Uhr >>>

Hi Everyone,

Is anyone using barcodes, attached to collection room shelves to track physical locations of specimens. We are looking for a reliable shelf label that won't fall off the metal shelves. We have used magnetic and sticky labels for taxonomic names but was wondering what other people are using. What works and what doesn't for durability and time efficiency.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thank you, Kathy



--

Kathy Omura, Collection Manager
Marine Biodiversity Center
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
(213) 763-3386
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From abentley at ku.edu  Tue May  4 12:11:51 2021
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2021 16:11:51 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Antw:  reliable shelf labels
In-Reply-To: <BY5PR01MB6003C784E8B870C99D156DEDCC5B9@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <CAOazKYTHxopA_7LJxC7wa+gFzTz_LgK3o=RuqcZZbZdeacVdkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <608D3246020000B30008F58E@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
 <BY5PR01MB6003C784E8B870C99D156DEDCC5B9@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <65198EA0-E569-4195-A19D-DC2CF17A522D@ku.edu>

Cathy

If you are sing metal shelving them magnetic shelf labels may be what you are looking for.  We have been using the C-channel label holders from here for some time in our collection and they work great - https://www.uline.com/Grp_119/Magnetic-Labels.  Depending on how much information you need to place on the label you may want to also consider the other options on this page.  We just put Family, Scientific Name and sometimes geographic range (for material that we have lots of that need to be separated).

Andy

     A  :                A  :               A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                  V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>

     A  :                A  :                A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                   V


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of "Cassidy, Kelly Michela" <cassidyk at wsu.edu>
Date: Monday, May 3, 2021 at 6:07 PM
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Antw: reliable shelf labels

(I?m not sure from your question exactly what you?re looking for, so this suggestion might be totally off-base.)

Finding a way to put a label on our metal fluid collections shelves was something I puzzled over for a while before coming up with a solution that met our needs. I wanted to be able to easily replace the labels without having to remove a taped label and retape a new one and I wanted the labels to be big enough to be easy to read and include the scientific and common names of the species on the shelf.  Since we operate on a shoe string budget (well, maybe more like a dental floss budget), it had to be a cheap solution.

Eventually, I came up with the idea of using Ziploc quart-sized freezer baggies to make pouches to hold labels. I cut off the top of the baggie (the ?zipper?), then about an inch off the top of the clear side (so one side is a little shorter than the other). I tape the longer, back side of the baggie to the back of the front edge of the shelf. I provided pictures so the description will make more sense.

The baggies are cheap and easy to replace if they get torn. I print the shelf labels on card stock (heavy paper) and cut them down to size. A quart baggie holds a 6? x 5.5? label that can be easily removed and replaced. As a bonus, we can ?color-code? our shelf labels. The teaching collections shelves have blue shelf and jar labels.




Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
School of Biological Sciences
Box 644236
Washington State University
Pullman, WA 99164-4236
509-335-3515

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Joachim H?ndel
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 1:50 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu; komura at nhm.org
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Antw: reliable shelf labels

Hi Kathy,
Maybe you can use classical Label Holders. You can screw them on or possibly also solder or weld it on.
But I think Barcodes are a concern, however. Of course they are convenient, but in 50...100 years they will no longer be known. The readers will no longer exist and the data will no longer be accessible.

All the best
Joachim



[cid:f836c626350e972ceea61d159d337d493fe7179271c85daa.mpf]





--
Joachim Haendel

Center of Natural SciencesCollections
of the Martin-Luther-University
- Entomological Collection -

Domplatz 4
D-06099 Halle (Saale)
Germany

Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
Fax:  +49 345 - 55 27 248
Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de<mailto:joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de>



>>> Kathy Omura <komura at nhm.org<mailto:komura at nhm.org>> 30.04.21 23.35 Uhr >>>
Hi Everyone,
Is anyone using barcodes, attached to collection room shelves to track physical locations of specimens. We are looking for a reliable shelf label that won't fall off the metal shelves. We have used magnetic and sticky labels for taxonomic names but was wondering what other people are using. What works and what doesn't for durability and time efficiency.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Thank you, Kathy

--
Kathy Omura, Collection Manager
Marine Biodiversity Center
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
(213) 763-3386
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From MillerMT2 at si.edu  Wed May  5 08:24:28 2021
From: MillerMT2 at si.edu (Miller, Matthew T.)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 12:24:28 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: SVP Preparators Session Abstracts due Tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR12MB3072A894FD353F8DF38A6AF582599@MN2PR12MB3072.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR12MB3072A894FD353F8DF38A6AF582599@MN2PR12MB3072.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR12MB30721EC282792E9D8586589D82599@MN2PR12MB3072.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

[https://vertpaleo.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/SVP-Logo.png]
Do you work in the field of Paleontology?  Have you:

  *   Been working on something new?
  *   Developed an interesting new technique in the field of fossil preparation, field work, collections management or mitigation paleontology?
  *   Made an interesting set-up for working from home?
  *   Developed new skills while working from home like data processing or cleaning?
  *   Worked with or trained volunteers over the pandemic?
Then talk to your community about it for 15 minutes this November at the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology 2021 Virtual Meeting, Preparators Session!
Abstract submission is currently open.  Abstracts are due TOMORROW, May, 6th and may be submitted here: https://svp2021.abstractcentral.com/<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsvp2021.abstractcentral.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7CMillerMT2%40si.edu%7C81078e611f8e430b300408d8fb8d4b0b%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637535931558997523%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=0gdzehGLSx3cwFBbH%2F%2Bj2vChQsu7VB%2FN3mjhE7JYEk8%3D&reserved=0>
Abstract guidelines may be found here: https://vertpaleo.org/abstract-submission-instructions/<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvertpaleo.org%2Fabstract-submission-instructions%2F&data=04%7C01%7CMillerMT2%40si.edu%7C81078e611f8e430b300408d8fb8d4b0b%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637535931558997523%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pMhUBUYyTy6N10WhXqnon6FIF4uGRk26bnc02bxRuYE%3D&reserved=0>
The Preparators Session welcomes abstracts that cover a broad range of topics, including fieldwork, labwork, curation projects, collections care, data management, exhibition development, and professional development training for preparators, technicians, and collection workers. Talks in this session address the physical care and long-term stewardship of vertebrate fossils and their associated data with special attention to the documentation of materials, methods, techniques, tools, health and safety considerations, as well as ethics.
In recognition of the multiple roles many members of the society encompass, SVP is now welcoming individuals to submit up to two first authored abstracts divided amongst the Preparators' Session, the Education and Outreach Poster Session, and a Regular/Symposium Session. Authors who wish to contribute to the Preparators' and Regular/Symposium sessions will no longer have to choose between them!
Talks and posters recycled from other meetings are welcome!  We would love to hear you report on additional data you have collected between meetings.
Our community looks forward to hearing your talk or reading your poster in November!
Regards;
The Preparators Session Advocacy Group, Preparators Committee


Matthew T. Miller
Museum Specialist
Department of Paleobiology
National Museum of Natural History

millermt2 at si.edu<mailto:millermt2 at si.edu>
(202) 633 - 1344
[si-logo]

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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Wed May  5 10:34:46 2021
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 14:34:46 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB52203697721B3B429B929043C3599@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Folks,

I'm doing some research and testing to assess whether our very old dry crustacean specimens would be better placed in fluid from now. Left in air it seems inevitable that they will eventually dry out to the point of disintegration. I'd like to solicit people's input on these two points:
- Reviewing the literature on this subject, particularly accounts of actual hydration/fluidization protocols and experiments
- Designing experiments and publishing basic procedures
If you know of relevant publications, have anecdotal experience of your own and/or would be interested in joining an informal working group on this topic, please email me directly.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

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From eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu  Wed May  5 11:37:51 2021
From: eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu (Lazo-Wasem, Eric)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 15:37:51 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB52203697721B3B429B929043C3599@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BL0PR01MB52203697721B3B429B929043C3599@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <BN7PR08MB5074BFEBE1B6876462931CA3DA599@BN7PR08MB5074.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Paul,

An interesting question and one that has left many of us puzzled.  I fret over what to do with a dry crab collected by the Exploring Expedition - it is the type of the famously eaten Dungeness crab, and the carapace is delaminating.  I found the crab in a glassware cabinet in a superheated basement hallway; why this precious specimen was there........

Anyway, I have had excellent success rehydrating long dried smaller crustacea, amphipods, isopods, etc. using Aerosol-OT, something Bill Moser suggested we use for dried leeches.  See the link following for an example.  It was the dried syntype of Hyalella dentata from the 19th century.  I rehydrated it in Aerosol OT, and then was able to dissect it and make wonderful slides.  If you follow the link you will see the pre-hydrating image of the whole specimen, and then scrolling down to the bottom you can see the thumbnails of slide images to get a sense of the quality.

Also, Les Watling at U. Hawaii raved about another surfactant (dioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate)  that is mentioned in a paper by Paul Jeppensen. See link:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20104402?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

Best, Eric



Eric A. Lazo-Wasem
Senior Collections Manager
Peabody Museum of Natural History
Yale University
170 Whitney Ave.
New Haven, CT 06520
203 432-3784

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Callomon,Paul
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 10:35 AM
To: NH-COLL listserv (nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu) <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans

Folks,

I'm doing some research and testing to assess whether our very old dry crustacean specimens would be better placed in fluid from now. Left in air it seems inevitable that they will eventually dry out to the point of disintegration. I'd like to solicit people's input on these two points:
- Reviewing the literature on this subject, particularly accounts of actual hydration/fluidization protocols and experiments
- Designing experiments and publishing basic procedures
If you know of relevant publications, have anecdotal experience of your own and/or would be interested in joining an informal working group on this topic, please email me directly.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Wed May  5 12:25:20 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 17:25:20 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans
In-Reply-To: <BN7PR08MB5074BFEBE1B6876462931CA3DA599@BN7PR08MB5074.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BL0PR01MB52203697721B3B429B929043C3599@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <BN7PR08MB5074BFEBE1B6876462931CA3DA599@BN7PR08MB5074.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DA64191A-6374-4F0B-8B62-DD0F72F0BDE4@btinternet.com>

Thanks Eric and Paul, for bringing up a subject that has always been a bit of a challenge as ?crusties? are one of the most difficult animals to rehydrate successfully.  I remember the Jeppesen paper when it came out and it steered me away from the tried but not-always-successful tri-sodium phosphate solution of 1947 into using the lab surfactant Decon-90 at 3 to 5% and this has proved very successful overall, especially for high protein organisms.  Di-octyl Sulpho-succinate is also very effective.  However, Eric mentioned Aerosol OT which is unknown to me, so Eric, please could we have some more details?  The link you kindly attached, sent sent me to Jeppesen?s paper which I cannot download as I?m not part of a library, university &c.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 5 May 2021, at 16:37, Lazo-Wasem, Eric <eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
>  
> An interesting question and one that has left many of us puzzled.  I fret over what to do with a dry crab collected by the Exploring Expedition ? it is the type of the famously eaten Dungeness crab, and the carapace is delaminating.  I found the crab in a glassware cabinet in a superheated basement hallway; why this precious specimen was there??..
>  
> Anyway, I have had excellent success rehydrating long dried smaller crustacea, amphipods, isopods, etc. using Aerosol-OT, something Bill Moser suggested we use for dried leeches.  See the link following for an example.  It was the dried syntype of Hyalella dentata from the 19th century.  I rehydrated it in Aerosol OT, and then was able to dissect it and make wonderful slides.  If you follow the link you will see the pre-hydrating image of the whole specimen, and then scrolling down to the bottom you can see the thumbnails of slide images to get a sense of the quality. 
>  
> Also, Les Watling at U. Hawaii raved about another surfactant (dioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate)  that is mentioned in a paper by Paul Jeppensen. See link:
>  
> https://www.jstor.org/stable/20104402?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents
>  
> Best, Eric
>  
>  
>  
> Eric A. Lazo-Wasem
> Senior Collections Manager
> Peabody Museum of Natural History
> Yale University
> 170 Whitney Ave.
> New Haven, CT 06520
> 203 432-3784
>  
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Callomon,Paul
> Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 10:35 AM
> To: NH-COLL listserv (nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu) <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans
>  
> Folks,
>  
> I?m doing some research and testing to assess whether our very old dry crustacean specimens would be better placed in fluid from now. Left in air it seems inevitable that they will eventually dry out to the point of disintegration. I?d like to solicit people?s input on these two points:
> - Reviewing the literature on this subject, particularly accounts of actual hydration/fluidization protocols and experiments
> - Designing experiments and publishing basic procedures
> If you know of relevant publications, have anecdotal experience of your own and/or would be interested in joining an informal working group on this topic, please email me directly.
>  
> Paul Callomon
> Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
> Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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From eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu  Wed May  5 12:54:54 2021
From: eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu (Lazo-Wasem, Eric)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 16:54:54 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans
In-Reply-To: <DA64191A-6374-4F0B-8B62-DD0F72F0BDE4@btinternet.com>
References: <BL0PR01MB52203697721B3B429B929043C3599@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <BN7PR08MB5074BFEBE1B6876462931CA3DA599@BN7PR08MB5074.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
 <DA64191A-6374-4F0B-8B62-DD0F72F0BDE4@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <BN7PR08MB5074F60A0709F2E83814989EDA599@BN7PR08MB5074.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Simon,

Aerosol OT is a commercial surfactant manufactured by Ricca Chemmical Company in the US (Texas).  We buy it through a scientific supply company.  From the ingredients list I see it contains various alcohols, and "Dicosate Sodium."  It is a very slippery solution and can take some time to work.  I usually toss specimens in and let them sit about a week; sometimes I forget and they stay for a month or more and I have seen no degradation as a result.  For recently dry specimens (polychaetes dried out over Covid "break") the critters were in good shape in a few days.

Previously, I used with some success tri-basic calcium phosphate, a bit of a variation on TSP that I learned of from the former curator many years ago.

Best, Eric

Eric A. Lazo-Wasem
Senior Collections Manager
Peabody Museum of Natural History
Yale University
170 Whitney Ave.
New Haven, CT 06520
203 432-3784

From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 12:25 PM
To: Lazo-Wasem, Eric <eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu>
Cc: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans

Thanks Eric and Paul, for bringing up a subject that has always been a bit of a challenge as 'crusties' are one of the most difficult animals to rehydrate successfully.  I remember the Jeppesen paper when it came out and it steered me away from the tried but not-always-successful tri-sodium phosphate solution of 1947 into using the lab surfactant Decon-90 at 3 to 5% and this has proved very successful overall, especially for high protein organisms.  Di-octyl Sulpho-succinate is also very effective.  However, Eric mentioned Aerosol OT which is unknown to me, so Eric, please could we have some more details?  The link you kindly attached, sent sent me to Jeppesen's paper which I cannot download as I'm not part of a library, university &c.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.natural-history-conservation.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ceric.lazo-wasem%40yale.edu%7Cfe21c57ee16c4a47dd3608d90fe262d2%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637558287269231292%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=GvFQ1Vw9PhR8rbVdympo5u0X0An2TWb9od%2BeIJciiMg%3D&reserved=0>


[cid:image001.png at 01D741AD.3468F3C0][cid:image002.jpg at 01D741AD.3468F3C0]


On 5 May 2021, at 16:37, Lazo-Wasem, Eric <eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu<mailto:eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu>> wrote:

Hi Paul,

An interesting question and one that has left many of us puzzled.  I fret over what to do with a dry crab collected by the Exploring Expedition - it is the type of the famously eaten Dungeness crab, and the carapace is delaminating.  I found the crab in a glassware cabinet in a superheated basement hallway; why this precious specimen was there........

Anyway, I have had excellent success rehydrating long dried smaller crustacea, amphipods, isopods, etc. using Aerosol-OT, something Bill Moser suggested we use for dried leeches.  See the link following for an example.  It was the dried syntype of Hyalella dentata from the 19th century.  I rehydrated it in Aerosol OT, and then was able to dissect it and make wonderful slides.  If you follow the link you will see the pre-hydrating image of the whole specimen, and then scrolling down to the bottom you can see the thumbnails of slide images to get a sense of the quality.

Also, Les Watling at U. Hawaii raved about another surfactant (dioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate)  that is mentioned in a paper by Paul Jeppensen. See link:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20104402?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fstable%2F20104402%3Fseq%3D1%23metadata_info_tab_contents&data=04%7C01%7Ceric.lazo-wasem%40yale.edu%7Cfe21c57ee16c4a47dd3608d90fe262d2%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637558287269241271%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=VjWMLrsX23lWWqgnajVWF3c8tGnLQaDYlnr9F1EGW7M%3D&reserved=0>

Best, Eric



Eric A. Lazo-Wasem
Senior Collections Manager
Peabody Museum of Natural History
Yale University
170 Whitney Ave.
New Haven, CT 06520
203 432-3784

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Callomon,Paul
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 10:35 AM
To: NH-COLL listserv (nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>) <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans

Folks,

I'm doing some research and testing to assess whether our very old dry crustacean specimens would be better placed in fluid from now. Left in air it seems inevitable that they will eventually dry out to the point of disintegration. I'd like to solicit people's input on these two points:
- Reviewing the literature on this subject, particularly accounts of actual hydration/fluidization protocols and experiments
- Designing experiments and publishing basic procedures
If you know of relevant publications, have anecdotal experience of your own and/or would be interested in joining an informal working group on this topic, please email me directly.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Wed May  5 13:21:12 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 18:21:12 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans
In-Reply-To: <BN7PR08MB5074F60A0709F2E83814989EDA599@BN7PR08MB5074.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BL0PR01MB52203697721B3B429B929043C3599@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <BN7PR08MB5074BFEBE1B6876462931CA3DA599@BN7PR08MB5074.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
 <DA64191A-6374-4F0B-8B62-DD0F72F0BDE4@btinternet.com>
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Message-ID: <3C97FD7F-E221-4F6E-81BC-124A4D32E081@btinternet.com>

Many thanks Eric,

Seems like your aerosol contains the same chemical formula as di-octyl sodium sulphosuccinate!  Doubtless there are other additives to improve performance. 

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 5 May 2021, at 17:54, Lazo-Wasem, Eric <eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon,
>  
> Aerosol OT is a commercial surfactant manufactured by Ricca Chemmical Company in the US (Texas).  We buy it through a scientific supply company.  From the ingredients list I see it contains various alcohols, and ?Dicosate Sodium.?  It is a very slippery solution and can take some time to work.  I usually toss specimens in and let them sit about a week; sometimes I forget and they stay for a month or more and I have seen no degradation as a result.  For recently dry specimens (polychaetes dried out over Covid ?break?) the critters were in good shape in a few days.  
>  
> Previously, I used with some success tri-basic calcium phosphate, a bit of a variation on TSP that I learned of from the former curator many years ago. 
>  
> Best, Eric
>  
> Eric A. Lazo-Wasem
> Senior Collections Manager
> Peabody Museum of Natural History
> Yale University
> 170 Whitney Ave.
> New Haven, CT 06520
> 203 432-3784
>  
> From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com> 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 12:25 PM
> To: Lazo-Wasem, Eric <eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu>
> Cc: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans
>  
> Thanks Eric and Paul, for bringing up a subject that has always been a bit of a challenge as ?crusties? are one of the most difficult animals to rehydrate successfully.  I remember the Jeppesen paper when it came out and it steered me away from the tried but not-always-successful tri-sodium phosphate solution of 1947 into using the lab surfactant Decon-90 at 3 to 5% and this has proved very successful overall, especially for high protein organisms.  Di-octyl Sulpho-succinate is also very effective.  However, Eric mentioned Aerosol OT which is unknown to me, so Eric, please could we have some more details?  The link you kindly attached, sent sent me to Jeppesen?s paper which I cannot download as I?m not part of a library, university &c.
>  
> With all good wishes, Simon
> 
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
> 
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
> 
> 
> <image001.png><image002.jpg>
> 
> 
> On 5 May 2021, at 16:37, Lazo-Wasem, Eric <eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
>  
> An interesting question and one that has left many of us puzzled.  I fret over what to do with a dry crab collected by the Exploring Expedition ? it is the type of the famously eaten Dungeness crab, and the carapace is delaminating.  I found the crab in a glassware cabinet in a superheated basement hallway; why this precious specimen was there??..
>  
> Anyway, I have had excellent success rehydrating long dried smaller crustacea, amphipods, isopods, etc. using Aerosol-OT, something Bill Moser suggested we use for dried leeches.  See the link following for an example.  It was the dried syntype of Hyalella dentata from the 19th century.  I rehydrated it in Aerosol OT, and then was able to dissect it and make wonderful slides.  If you follow the link you will see the pre-hydrating image of the whole specimen, and then scrolling down to the bottom you can see the thumbnails of slide images to get a sense of the quality. 
>  
> Also, Les Watling at U. Hawaii raved about another surfactant (dioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate)  that is mentioned in a paper by Paul Jeppensen. See link:
>  
> https://www.jstor.org/stable/20104402?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents
>  
> Best, Eric
>  
>  
>  
> Eric A. Lazo-Wasem
> Senior Collections Manager
> Peabody Museum of Natural History
> Yale University
> 170 Whitney Ave.
> New Haven, CT 06520
> 203 432-3784
>  
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Callomon,Paul
> Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 10:35 AM
> To: NH-COLL listserv (nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu) <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Hydrating old crustaceans
>  
> Folks,
>  
> I?m doing some research and testing to assess whether our very old dry crustacean specimens would be better placed in fluid from now. Left in air it seems inevitable that they will eventually dry out to the point of disintegration. I?d like to solicit people?s input on these two points:
> - Reviewing the literature on this subject, particularly accounts of actual hydration/fluidization protocols and experiments
> - Designing experiments and publishing basic procedures
> If you know of relevant publications, have anecdotal experience of your own and/or would be interested in joining an informal working group on this topic, please email me directly.
>  
> Paul Callomon
> Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
> Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>  

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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Wed May  5 14:48:35 2021
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 18:48:35 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Anton Paar Snap
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB5220F7B44E7ECF3904D9240EC3599@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Folks,

Does anyone have an Anton Paar Snap 41 or 51 alcohol meter? We had the more expensive model (which they seem not to offer any more) but it fritzed and could not be fixed. As the 41 is one third the price, I'm hoping someone in the museum community can give us some feedback about it.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

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From Jeff.Stephenson at dmns.org  Thu May  6 13:19:51 2021
From: Jeff.Stephenson at dmns.org (Jeff Stephenson)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 17:19:51 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] June - July On-Line Courses -- Museum Study LLC
Message-ID: <CY4PR08MB3509DC329DACCD56A40B360A98589@CY4PR08MB3509.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hello,
Please see below for a compendium of on-line courses in Museum Studies and Collections Management.  This list is provided by the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections Professional Development Committee as a monthly service for nhcoll subscribers.  Please contact the course providers or instructors for more information or questions.
As a reminder, nhcoll is not open for advertising by individuals; however, if you would like to have your courses appear in this compendium, please feel free to submit your offerings to jeff.stephenson at dmns.org<mailto:jeff.stephenson at dmns.org>, and we'll see that you get in.
Thank you

>From Museum Study, LLC

Storage Techniques online course begins May 31 on MuseumStudy.com Join Instructor Rebecca Newberry for the 4 week course Storage Techniques. Is your collection at risk due to poor storage methods? Good storage mounts are essential for preserving museum collections. Building on the related course, Materials for Exhibit, Moving, and Storage, in Storage Techniques, you will learn about the materials, tools, ideas, and techniques needed to create quality storage mounts. You will design and build a storage mount for an object of your choosing and plan a storage improvement project for a collection of objects using archival materials and techniques.

For more information visit our website:

https://www.museumstudy.com/storage-techniques



Marketing Plans for Heritage Sites course begins May 31 on MuseumStudy.com Without a doubt marketing is one of the most critical aspects of any heritage or interpretive attraction operations. Marketing brings in visitors, creates new market groups - and gets them to come back for return visits. Successful marketing efforts = staying in business for most heritage attractions, particularly those not totally supported by local governments or other governmental agencies. Yet many agencies and organizations don't have marketing plans or yet... "successful marketing plans".

Join interpretive planning consultant John Veverka for the new 4 week online course Marketing Plans for Heritage Sites.

For more information visit our website:

https://www.museumstudy.com/marketing-plans-for-heritage-interpretation-sites



Decolonizing Museums in Practice course begins July 5 on MuseumStudy.com Articles about decolonizing museums are everywhere these days, but what does this actually mean in practice for museum professionals?

Join Laura Phillips, Heather George, and Nathan Sentance for this course where we will focus on looking critically at how museum professionals can activate decolonial ways of thinking in their own work environment, and in their day to day life.

We will investigate how the words of contemporary Indigenous scholars and curators can be put into practice to promote practices that de-centre the subtle (and not so subtle) colonial ways of thinking that surround us every day.

The text book can take a while to arrive so make sure to order it well in advance if you can not find it locally. This course fills early, but runs multiple times a year.

For more information visit our website:

https://www.museumstudy.com/decolonizing-museums-in-practice



Keeping Historic Houses & Museums Clean 4 week online course begins July

5 on MuseumStudy.com

An unkempt museum or historic house is not appealing to the visitor nor is it healthy for the staff and collection. In this 4 week online professional development course instructor Gretchen Anderson will lay a foundation as to how to clean objects and facilities safely. We will explore a variety of subjects, including health and safety for the staff and the objects, cleaning methods for a large variety of collection types common in art & cultural institutions and the importance of documenting what you do.

One former participant said, "This class was so helpful! This was such a great resource! For the first time since I started working here, my staff really seems to understand why I ask them to do what we do. It has really been the start of some great conversations on site and we will 100% use the techniques learned."

Cleaning and sterilizing the museum is in the news these days. Once we get back in to our museums and historic houses we will need to be extra careful. Please join us for this timely class to look at methods to protect both the collection and your visitors.

For more information visit our website:

https://www.museumstudy.com/keeping-historic-houses-and-museums-clean



Policies for Managing Collections 4 week online course begins July 5 on MuseumStudy.com Join instructor John Simmons author of Things Great and Small:

Collections Management Policies for the course Policies for Managing Collections. Participants in the course can purchase the Second Edition of the book at a discount. In this course we will critically examine the purposes and functions of collections management policies, including how collections are defined, acquired, managed, used, maintained, and deaccessioned.

For more information visit our website:

https://www.museumstudy.com/policies-for-managing-collections



Creating Virtual Learning Opportunities in Museums course begins July 5 on MuseumStudy.com Join us for this new course born out of the challenges we all encountered this last year.

Creating Virtual Learning Opportunities in Museums will cover creating both synchronous and asynchronous programs, connecting with teachers, and some technical skills to ensure that you can support teachers and students virtually as they learn from you and your museum. By the end of the course, participants will have built several different virtual education programs that will be ready to use.

Participants will create at least 3 different virtual museum education programs and learn to use technology tools and build skills to help them develop additional virtual learning opportunities.

For more information visit our website:

https://www.museumstudy.com/creating-virtual-learning-opportunities-in-museums



--

Brad Bredehoft

CEO

Museum Study, LLC

www.MuseumStudy.com<http://www.MuseumStudy.com>




JEFF STEPHENSON
COLLECTIONS MANAGER, ZOOLOGY DEPARTMENT



[DMNS 2 Line RGB small.jpg]<http://www.dmns.org/>
jeff.stephenson at dmns.org<mailto:jeff.stephenson at dmns.org>
W  303.370.8319
F   303.331.6492
2001 Colorado Blvd., Denver CO 80205

preserve,<http://community.dmns.org/content/OnlineCommunity.aspx> present, inspire, explore
www.dmns.org

We are OPEN<https://bit.ly/2YApSao>! Explore ancient mysteries and modern discoveries in "Stonehenge"<http://bit.ly/3epLv6v> the exhibition.


?El museo est? ABIERTO<https://bit.ly/2YApSao>! Explora los misterios antiguos y los descubrimientos modernos en la exhibici?n "Stonehenge"<http://bit.ly/3epLv6v>.



The Denver Museum of Nature & Science salutes the citizens of metro Denver for helping fund arts, culture and science through their support of the Scientific and Cultural Facilities District (SCFD)<http://www.scfd.org/>.




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From Tonya.Haff at csiro.au  Thu May  6 16:04:05 2021
From: Tonya.Haff at csiro.au (Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace))
Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 20:04:05 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
Message-ID: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hello all,

I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?

Thank you!

Tonya


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From simmons.johne at gmail.com  Thu May  6 17:50:26 2021
From: simmons.johne at gmail.com (John E Simmons)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 17:50:26 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>

Tonya,
Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging
up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited
in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
preferred).

I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
be a real mess to work with in a collection.

For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing
a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check *Herpetological
Collecting and Collections Management* (3rd edition, 2015). The
instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work
for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.

Hope this helps,
--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
<Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Tonya
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Thu May  6 18:17:23 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 23:17:23 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>

Thanks John and Tonya,

What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.

I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred). 
> 
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
> 
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> --John
> 
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH? 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Tonya
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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From neumann at snsb.de  Fri May  7 02:35:33 2021
From: neumann at snsb.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 08:35:33 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>

Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)

concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon 
pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates 
this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens 
(0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or 
less high concentrated EtOH.

Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of 
tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in 
the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall 
whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom 
of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from 
chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).

I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside 
from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise 
traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several 
days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly 
dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, 
appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted 
malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the 
bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated 
ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish 
jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped 
in the thick specimen deposit.

Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted 
effects before moving them into the collection.

Hope this is useful, with best wishes
Dirk




Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
> Thanks John and Tonya,
>
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final 
> concentrations. ?80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when 
> I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? 
> in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols 
> from the staging process, once things have settled down / 
> equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway. ?Higher grade 
> alcohols ?can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as 
> evaporation issues.
>
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile 
> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this 
> process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS,?ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences?and?Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com 
> <http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>
>
>
>
>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Tonya,
>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for 
>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, 
>> who I cited in that sentence. In?general, I do not recommend using 
>> 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 
>> 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of 
>> the?specimens and providing them suitable protection against 
>> biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below 
>> that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for?most specimens (note 
>> that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>>
>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against 
>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and 
>> can be a real mess to work with in a?collection.
>>
>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and 
>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to 
>> check?Herpetological Collecting and Collections?Management?(3rd 
>> edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid 
>> preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for 
>> reptiles and amphibians.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) 
>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au <mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid 
>> preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up 
>> out of formalin fixative into?preservation alcohol as follows: from 
>> 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place?our 
>> specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher?concentrations can cause 
>> some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are 
>> terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a 
>> buffer?against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the 
>> specimen?into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol 
>> concentration in the preservation fluid?stays sufficiently high? But 
>> to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts 
>> on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step 
>> your?specimens?up in ETOH?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Tonya
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See?http://www.spnhc.org?for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


-- 


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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From Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se  Fri May  7 03:48:42 2021
From: Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se (=?utf-8?B?RXJpayDDhWhsYW5kZXI=?=)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 07:48:42 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
Message-ID: <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>

Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,

Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful

1.       To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)

2.       Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.

3.       Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.

4.       If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.

As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.

I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.


Erik ?hlander
vertebrate zoology and museum history

ZOO
Swedish Museum of Natural History
PO Box 50007
SE-10405 Stockholm
Sweden
+46 0 8 5195 4118
+46 0 70 225 2716
erik.ahlander at nrm.se




Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates

Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)

concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.

Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).

I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.

Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.

Hope this is useful, with best wishes
Dirk



[cid:image001.png at 01D7431E.C9D5A260]

Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
Thanks John and Tonya,

What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.

I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1leu5X-0006gs-5g&i=57e1b682&c=P_JTOxhc00RtGTsMjTrryrRBThMnzI5k1ol2aDVqPITm0G_xR0drpuNIhh-krJ6ihFhOLJnXYNjI5fJDeS7rag0t-LwIYs0jmRWXIk2uN2sYVvoo4O9RHPsKEAKiAK-LvbrlH-pnEJMM5dJlJOlNvswIXfaiFJxHBKwsoJX5uQ31zmivYbvBNJdb61ZNkqDKGinISZmQBmu6t6VBola0IT4zHh0nqkiHmWvI7KCXEbWncO8-owQTcerGpMed6sP9>


[cid:3543D570-FCD3-4F5F-B04C-2A6D3A8D9E27 at home][cid:image002.jpg at 01D7431E.C9D5A260]


On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:

Tonya,
Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).

I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.

For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.

Hope this helps,
--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
Hello all,

I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?

Thank you!

Tonya


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--

[cid:image004.png at 01D7431E.C9D5A260]

Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/<https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1leu5X-0006gs-5g&i=57e1b682&c=JImAtj76hCg59Twp85vww2NkEbHhn0BZDtHaBWGm0xS1JSC20mprqjLH6gcv8xjRskwD7o94VanEIHJg5cbwYcFHXN_eUPP-tKVJL86ZhBqL0IGEtOA8BnI36IWsVu1SOAPuBQLiCd3li7Tl3Y8AeYAE6BS4jdfgWuFxplBL460IJF1Pg-bNeSyoDlMNY8-UJJiL2Bkqhla3WjzUHl6BY1epB4uylPFrCL8g96pzkHex3VzExDMYgLTDlY7y92ce>

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
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From mnazaire at calbg.org  Fri May  7 08:53:04 2021
From: mnazaire at calbg.org (Mare Nazaire)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 05:53:04 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
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Message-ID: <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>

This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!

I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material
preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of
our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of
50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their
concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for
preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the
citation for this book?

Thank you,
~Mare

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se> wrote:

> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>
>
>
> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>
> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
> careful
>
> 1.       To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>
> 2.       Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
> the surface of the specimen only.
>
> 3.       Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>
> 4.       If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
> ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>
> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is
> good.
>
> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>
>
>
> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal
> Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>
>
>
> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the
> reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Erik ?hlander
>
> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>
>
>
> ZOO
>
> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>
> PO Box 50007
>
> SE-10405 Stockholm
>
> Sweden
>
> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>
> +46 0 70 225 2716
>
> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Fr?n:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> *F?r *Dirk Neumann
> *Skickat:* den 7 maj 2021 08:36
> *Till:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *?mne:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>
>
>
> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>
>
>
> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed
> to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even
> if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs.
> 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated
> EtOH.
>
>
>
> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>
>
>
> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from
> vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>
>
>
> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects
> before moving them into the collection.
>
>
>
> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>
> Thanks John and Tonya,
>
>
>
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>
>
>
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>
>
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
> <https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1leu5X-0006gs-5g&i=57e1b682&c=P_JTOxhc00RtGTsMjTrryrRBThMnzI5k1ol2aDVqPITm0G_xR0drpuNIhh-krJ6ihFhOLJnXYNjI5fJDeS7rag0t-LwIYs0jmRWXIk2uN2sYVvoo4O9RHPsKEAKiAK-LvbrlH-pnEJMM5dJlJOlNvswIXfaiFJxHBKwsoJX5uQ31zmivYbvBNJdb61ZNkqDKGinISZmQBmu6t6VBola0IT4zHh0nqkiHmWvI7KCXEbWncO8-owQTcerGpMed6sP9>
>
>
>
>
> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong
> for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might
> be preferred).
>
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to
> check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition,
> 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals
> will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <
> Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Tonya
>
>
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> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1leu5X-0006gs-5g&i=57e1b682&c=n9v2LutVgadpE1qTiCapYBOSRbHUMMlrbIsijhZtlaRjF9SPYAuced2FunXpcb_i-RvpBTpTPbmEaji9gJcejMamqqALeEUw2eAjmPAsUNJp8goSRDy9c9_9-Xvu7XVJ6qBkEqgNnNRpNpjp3Hm--W3Y9PUPKUwu8nQP_K-uQCu6XkVMC3GAbtpXbqQiELhlviXYn2JwVW8FhgIs0ux69w> for membership information.
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> --
>
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
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> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> Postanschrift:
>
> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
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> M?nchhausenstr. 21
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>
> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
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> ---------
>
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>
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> postal address:
>
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-- 
Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
California Botanic Garden
Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
1500 North College Avenue
Claremont, California 91711
909.625.8767 ext. 268
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From neumann at snsb.de  Fri May  7 09:43:11 2021
From: neumann at snsb.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:43:11 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63d500f9-0261-6214-a6ae-dbc490b308e5@snsb.de>

Dear Mare,

are you sure that this is only ethanol, and not something like Kew-mix 
or a similar mixture? I am wondering because the EtOH concentration is 
rather low, which might be an indication that further ingredients might 
be included in this preservation fluid.

Originally, Kew-mixture was 53% EtOH, 37% water, 5% formaldehyde, and 5% 
glycerol. As far as I know, the formula was changed to 70% ETOH, 29% 
water, and 1% glycerol in the 2nd edition of The Herbarium Handbook 
(1989). But I am not a botanists, and others might be in a better 
position for giving advice?

Strong dehydration of cells can be an issue, this is why the glycerol is 
added.



With best wishes
Dirk




Am 07.05.2021 um 14:53 schrieb Mare Nazaire:
> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>
> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant 
> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered 
> that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a 
> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as 
> is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in 
> John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol?and could 
> you also provide the citation for this book?
>
> Thank you,
> ~Mare
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se 
> <mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>
>     Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some
>     experiences:
>
>     When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates
>     in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week)
>     with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed
>     1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition
>     was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also
>     tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which
>     after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for
>     evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>     formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for
>     two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in
>     80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad
>     jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted
>     and identified etc after this stage with the result that many
>     specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years
>     to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of
>     alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>     since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through
>     remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was
>     removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was
>     reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we
>     could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>
>     1.To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>
>     2.Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>     the surface of the specimen only.
>
>     3.Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>
>     4.If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
>     ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>
>     All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left -
>     that is good.
>
>     Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look
>     at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to
>     the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>
>     As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM
>     in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was
>     commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved
>     from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy
>     for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was
>     not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin
>     solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>     ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in
>     ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest
>     specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba
>     collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in
>     remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible
>     to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>     not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t
>     know too much about the preservation history of these specimens,
>     but what we know might be of general interest. The initial
>     fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus
>     vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not
>     pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions
>     from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>     king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>     Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in
>     1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848
>     the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum.
>     From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of ?vertebrates in alcohol
>     was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice.
>     But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark.
>     Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume /
>     conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.? From 1801-1898 the
>     major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the
>     whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>
>     I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol.
>     With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like
>     today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided
>     that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>
>     Erik ?hlander
>
>     vertebrate zoology and museum history
>
>     ZOO
>
>     Swedish Museum of Natural History
>
>     PO Box 50007
>
>     SE-10405 Stockholm
>
>     Sweden
>
>     +46 0 8 5195 4118
>
>     +46 0 70?225 2716
>
>     erik.ahlander at nrm.se <mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>
>     *Fr?n:*Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu
>     <mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> *F?r *Dirk Neumann
>     *Skickat:* den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>     *Till:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>     *?mne:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
>     vertebrates
>
>     Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>
>     concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>     pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely
>     illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring
>     specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still
>     soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>
>     Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount
>     of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see
>     "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids
>     released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish
>     haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish
>     colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts
>     of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>
>     I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%;
>     aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in
>     malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected
>     over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out
>     this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding
>     all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another
>     issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a
>     thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because
>     the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers
>     at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>     containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick
>     specimen deposit.
>
>     Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>     effects before moving them into the collection.
>
>     Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>
>     Dirk
>
>     Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>
>         Thanks John and Tonya,
>
>         What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the
>         final concentrations. ?80% was what I was advised at the NHM
>         in London when I worked there and by the time larger
>         terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find
>         that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging
>         process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then
>         the net result is around 70% anyway.? Higher grade alcohols
>         ?can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as
>         evaporation issues.
>
>         I have also found the staging process necessary for the more
>         fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure
>         during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in
>         softer tissues.
>
>         With all good wishes, Simon
>
>         Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS,?ACR
>         Conservator of Natural Sciences?and?Cutlery Historian,
>
>         www.natural-history-conservation.com
>         <https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1leu5X-0006gs-5g&i=57e1b682&c=P_JTOxhc00RtGTsMjTrryrRBThMnzI5k1ol2aDVqPITm0G_xR0drpuNIhh-krJ6ihFhOLJnXYNjI5fJDeS7rag0t-LwIYs0jmRWXIk2uN2sYVvoo4O9RHPsKEAKiAK-LvbrlH-pnEJMM5dJlJOlNvswIXfaiFJxHBKwsoJX5uQ31zmivYbvBNJdb61ZNkqDKGinISZmQBmu6t6VBola0IT4zHh0nqkiHmWvI7KCXEbWncO8-owQTcerGpMed6sP9>
>
>
>
>
>             On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons
>             <simmons.johne at gmail.com <mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
>             wrote:
>
>             Tonya,
>             Thank you for your kind words about my book. The
>             recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by
>             made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that
>             sentence. In?general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as
>             a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather
>             70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between
>             dehydration of the?specimens and providing them suitable
>             protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH
>             is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above
>             70%, too strong for?most specimens (note that there are
>             some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>
>             I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge
>             against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations
>             of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in
>             a?collection.
>
>             For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring
>             specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you
>             might want to check?Herpetological Collecting and
>             Collections?Management?(3rd edition, 2015). The
>             instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved
>             animals will work for most other specimens as well as for
>             reptiles and amphibians.
>
>             Hope this helps,
>             --John
>
>             John E. Simmons
>             Writer and Museum Consultant
>             Museologica
>             and
>             Associate Curator of Collections
>             Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>             Penn State University
>             and
>             Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>             Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de
>             San Marcos, Lima
>
>
>             On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>             <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au <mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>             Hello all,
>
>             I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on
>             fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for
>             stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative
>             into?preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40%
>             to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place?our
>             specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher?concentrations
>             can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our
>             specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final
>             80% provides a buffer?against ETOH evaporation or leaching
>             of water from the specimen?into the fluid in the jar, to
>             ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation
>             fluid?stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite
>             clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if
>             you would be willing to share how you step
>             your?specimens?up in ETOH?
>
>             Thank you!
>
>             Tonya
>
>
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>
>
>     Dirk Neumann
>
>     Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>     Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>     neumann(a)snsb.de <http://snsb.de>
>
>     Postanschrift:
>
>     Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>     Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>     Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>     M?nchhausenstr. 21
>     81247 M?nchen
>
>     Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>     http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>     <https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1leu5X-0006gs-5g&i=57e1b682&c=JImAtj76hCg59Twp85vww2NkEbHhn0BZDtHaBWGm0xS1JSC20mprqjLH6gcv8xjRskwD7o94VanEIHJg5cbwYcFHXN_eUPP-tKVJL86ZhBqL0IGEtOA8BnI36IWsVu1SOAPuBQLiCd3li7Tl3Y8AeYAE6BS4jdfgWuFxplBL460IJF1Pg-bNeSyoDlMNY8-UJJiL2Bkqhla3WjzUHl6BY1epB4uylPFrCL8g96pzkHex3VzExDMYgLTDlY7y92ce>
>
>     ---------
>
>     Dirk Neumann
>
>     Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>     Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>     neumann(a)snsb.de <http://snsb.de>
>
>     postal address:
>
>     Bavarian Natural History Collections
>     The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>     Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>     Muenchhausenstr. 21
>     81247 Munich (Germany)
>
>     Visit our section at:
>     http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>     <https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1leu5X-0006gs-5g&i=57e1b682&c=JImAtj76hCg59Twp85vww2NkEbHhn0BZDtHaBWGm0xS1JSC20mprqjLH6gcv8xjRskwD7o94VanEIHJg5cbwYcFHXN_eUPP-tKVJL86ZhBqL0IGEtOA8BnI36IWsVu1SOAPuBQLiCd3li7Tl3Y8AeYAE6BS4jdfgWuFxplBL460IJF1Pg-bNeSyoDlMNY8-UJJiL2Bkqhla3WjzUHl6BY1epB4uylPFrCL8g96pzkHex3VzExDMYgLTDlY7y92ce>
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> -- 
> Mare Nazaire,?Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


-- 


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Fri May  7 10:18:16 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:18:16 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>

Dear Mare,

I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate! 
Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
> 
> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
> 
> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
> 
> Thank you,
> ~Mare
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se> wrote:
> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
> 
>  
> 
> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
> 
> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
> 
> 1.       To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
> 
> 2.       Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
> 
> 3.       Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
> 
> 4.       If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
> 
> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
> 
> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
> 
>  
> 
> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
> 
>  
> 
> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Erik ?hlander
> 
> vertebrate zoology and museum history
> 
>  
> 
> ZOO
> 
> Swedish Museum of Natural History
> 
> PO Box 50007
> 
> SE-10405 Stockholm
> 
> Sweden
> 
> +46 0 8 5195 4118
> 
> +46 0 70 225 2716
> 
> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
> 
>  
> 
> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
> 
>  
> 
> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
> 
>  
> 
> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
> 
>  
> 
> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
> 
>  
> 
> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
> 
> Dirk
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> <image001.png>
> 
>  
> 
> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
> 
> Thanks John and Tonya,
> 
>  
> 
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
> 
>  
> 
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
> 
>  
> 
> With all good wishes, Simon
> 
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
> 
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
> 
> 
> <image002.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred). 
> 
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
> 
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> --John
> 
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH? 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Tonya
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>  
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>  
> 
> --
> 
> <image004.png>
> 
> 
> Dirk Neumann
> 
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
> 
> Postanschrift:
> 
> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
> M?nchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 M?nchen
> 
> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
> 
> ---------
> 
> Dirk Neumann
> 
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
> 
> postal address:
> 
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
> Muenchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 Munich (Germany)
> 
> Visit our section at:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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From mnazaire at calbg.org  Fri May  7 10:55:58 2021
From: mnazaire at calbg.org (Mare Nazaire)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 07:55:58 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
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 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.

I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
wrote:

> Dear Mare,
>
> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has
> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
> concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>
>
>
>
> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>
> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>
> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material
> preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of
> our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of
> 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their
> concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for
> preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the
> citation for this book?
>
> Thank you,
> ~Mare
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>
> wrote:
> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>
>
>
> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>
> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
> careful
>
> 1.       To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>
> 2.       Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
> the surface of the specimen only.
>
> 3.       Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>
> 4.       If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
> ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>
> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is
> good.
>
> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>
>
>
> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>
>
>
> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the
> reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Erik ?hlander
>
> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>
>
>
> ZOO
>
> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>
> PO Box 50007
>
> SE-10405 Stockholm
>
> Sweden
>
> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>
> +46 0 70 225 2716
>
> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>
>
>
> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>
>
>
> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed
> to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even
> if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs.
> 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated
> EtOH.
>
>
>
> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>
>
>
> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from
> vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>
>
>
> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects
> before moving them into the collection.
>
>
>
> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>
> Thanks John and Tonya,
>
>
>
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>
>
>
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>
>
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
> preferred).
>
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Tonya
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
>
> <image004.png>
>
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> Postanschrift:
>
> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
> M?nchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 M?nchen
>
> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> ---------
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> postal address:
>
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
> Muenchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>
> Visit our section at:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>

-- 
Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
California Botanic Garden
Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
1500 North College Avenue
Claremont, California 91711
909.625.8767 ext. 268
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From simmons.johne at gmail.com  Fri May  7 11:43:32 2021
From: simmons.johne at gmail.com (John E Simmons)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 11:43:32 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>

 The reference for the book is:
Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
and other sellers.

The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
(thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
flowers).

The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
content than rum, actually work better).

Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
the process).

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:

> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>
> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mare,
>>
>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
>> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has
>> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
>> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
>> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
>> concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>
>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>
>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>> provide the citation for this book?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> ~Mare
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>
>> wrote:
>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>
>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>> careful
>>
>> 1.       To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>
>> 2.       Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>
>> 3.       Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>
>> 4.       If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
>> ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>
>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>> is good.
>>
>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
>> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
>> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the
>> reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik ?hlander
>>
>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>
>>
>>
>> ZOO
>>
>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>
>> PO Box 50007
>>
>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>
>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>
>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>> concentrated EtOH.
>>
>>
>>
>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>
>>
>>
>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <image001.png>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>
>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>
>>
>>
>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>
>>
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <image002.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Tonya,
>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>> preferred).
>>
>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>
>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
>> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
>> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
>> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
>> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
>> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
>> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
>> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
>> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
>> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
>> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Tonya
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> <image004.png>
>>
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> Postanschrift:
>>
>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 M?nchen
>>
>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> postal address:
>>
>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>
>> Visit our section at:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From mnazaire at calbg.org  Fri May  7 12:02:29 2021
From: mnazaire at calbg.org (Mare Nazaire)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 09:02:29 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The reference for the book is:
> Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
> Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
> and other sellers.
>
> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
> (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
> research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
> mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
> flowers).
>
> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
> history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
> fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
> concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
> beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
> a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
> inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
> content than rum, actually work better).
>
> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
> improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
> an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
> after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
> on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
> chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
> making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
> the process).
>
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> *and*
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> *and*
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>
>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
>> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
>> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
>> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
>> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Mare,
>>>
>>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
>>> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has
>>> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
>>> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
>>> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
>>> concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>
>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>>> provide the citation for this book?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> ~Mare
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>
>>> wrote:
>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>
>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>>> careful
>>>
>>> 1.       To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>
>>> 2.       Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>>
>>> 3.       Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>
>>> 4.       If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh
>>> (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>
>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>>> is good.
>>>
>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
>>> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
>>> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>>> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
>>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With
>>> the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>
>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ZOO
>>>
>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>
>>> PO Box 50007
>>>
>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>>
>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>
>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>
>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>>> concentrated EtOH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>
>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>>> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>>> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
>>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tonya,
>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>>> preferred).
>>>
>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>
>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> --John
>>>
>>> John E. Simmons
>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>> Museologica
>>> and
>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>> Penn State University
>>> and
>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid
>>> preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of
>>> formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to
>>> 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70%
>>> ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with
>>> specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I
>>> presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or
>>> leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure
>>> that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently
>>> high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have
>>> thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your
>>> specimens up in ETOH?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Tonya
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <image004.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> Postanschrift:
>>>
>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>
>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> postal address:
>>>
>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>
>>> Visit our section at:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>

-- 
Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
California Botanic Garden
Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
1500 North College Avenue
Claremont, California 91711
909.625.8767 ext. 268
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From simmons.johne at gmail.com  Fri May  7 12:21:02 2021
From: simmons.johne at gmail.com (John E Simmons)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 12:21:02 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>

Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for
catching it:  Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is,
so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.

The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test
the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a
concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit
the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of
alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the
concentration of the alcohol.

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:

> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The reference for the book is:
>> Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
>> Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
>> and other sellers.
>>
>> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
>> (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
>> research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
>> mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
>> flowers).
>>
>> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
>> history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
>> fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
>> concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
>> beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
>> a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
>> inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
>> content than rum, actually work better).
>>
>> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
>> improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
>> an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
>> after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
>> on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
>> chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
>> making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
>> the process).
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> *and*
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> *and*
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>>
>>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
>>> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
>>> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
>>> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
>>> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Mare,
>>>>
>>>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then
>>>> transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.
>>>> As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly
>>>> between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which
>>>> can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a
>>>> lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>>>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>>>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>>>
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>>
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>>
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>>
>>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>>>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>>>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>>>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>>>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>>>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>>>> provide the citation for this book?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> ~Mare
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>>
>>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>>>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>>>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>>>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>>>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>>>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>>>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>>>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>>>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>>>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>>>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>>>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>>>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>>>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>>>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>>>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>>>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>>>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>>>> careful
>>>>
>>>> 1.       To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>>
>>>> 2.       Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>>>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>>>
>>>> 3.       Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>>
>>>> 4.       If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh
>>>> (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>>
>>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>>>> is good.
>>>>
>>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at
>>>> an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the
>>>> removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>>>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>>>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>>>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>>>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>>>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>>>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>>>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>>>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>>>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>>>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>>>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>>>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>>>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>>>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>>>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>>>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>>>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>>>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>>>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>>>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>>>> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>>>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>>>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>>>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
>>>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>>>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With
>>>> the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>>>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>>>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>>
>>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ZOO
>>>>
>>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>>
>>>> PO Box 50007
>>>>
>>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>>
>>>> Sweden
>>>>
>>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>>
>>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>>
>>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>>>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>>>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>>>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>>>> concentrated EtOH.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>>>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>>>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>>>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>>>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>>>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>>>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>>>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>>>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>>>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>>>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>>>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>>>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>>>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>>>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>>>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>>
>>>> Dirk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>>>> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>>>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>>>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>>>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>>>> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
>>>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>>>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>>>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>>
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>>
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tonya,
>>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>>>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>>>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>>>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>>>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>>>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>>>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>>>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>>>> preferred).
>>>>
>>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>>>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>>>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>>
>>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>>>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>>>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>>>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>>>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> --John
>>>>
>>>> John E. Simmons
>>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>>> Museologica
>>>> and
>>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>>> Penn State University
>>>> and
>>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos,
>>>> Lima
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>>>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid
>>>> preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of
>>>> formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to
>>>> 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70%
>>>> ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with
>>>> specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I
>>>> presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or
>>>> leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure
>>>> that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently
>>>> high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have
>>>> thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your
>>>> specimens up in ETOH?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Tonya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> <image004.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>
>>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>>
>>>> Postanschrift:
>>>>
>>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>>
>>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>>
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>>
>>>> postal address:
>>>>
>>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>>
>>>> Visit our section at:
>>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>>> California Botanic Garden
>>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>
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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Fri May  7 12:45:57 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 17:45:57 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
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 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
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 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>

That?s true John,

You have to understand that anything weights and measures-wise that emanated from England before about 1900 was bound to be complicated!

With all good wishes, Simon



> On 7 May 2021, at 17:21, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for catching it:  Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is, so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.
> 
> The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the concentration of the alcohol.
> 
> --John
> 
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
> The reference for the book is:
> Simmons, John E. 2014. Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference. Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher, and other sellers.
> 
> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in flowers).
> 
> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol content than rum, actually work better).
> 
> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in the process).
> 
> --John
> 
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
> 
> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH. He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com> wrote:
> Dear Mare,
> 
> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate! 
> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
> 
> With all good wishes, Simon
> 
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
> 
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
> 
> 
> <PastedGraphic-2.tiff><MA logo.jpg>
> 
>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>> 
>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>> 
>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> ~Mare
>> 
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se> wrote:
>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>> 
>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>> 
>> 1.       To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>> 
>> 2.       Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>> 
>> 3.       Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>> 
>> 4.       If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>> 
>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>> 
>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Erik ?hlander
>> 
>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ZOO
>> 
>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>> 
>> PO Box 50007
>> 
>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>> 
>> Sweden
>> 
>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>> 
>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>> 
>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>> 
>> Dirk
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> <image001.png>
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>> 
>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>> 
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>> 
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>> 
>> 
>> <image002.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Tonya,
>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred). 
>> 
>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>> 
>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> --John
>> 
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH? 
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> Tonya
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
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>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>  
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> <image004.png>
>> 
>> 
>> Dirk Neumann
>> 
>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>> 
>> Postanschrift:
>> 
>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
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>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 M?nchen
>> 
>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>> 
>> ---------
>> 
>> Dirk Neumann
>> 
>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>> 
>> postal address:
>> 
>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>> 
>> Visit our section at:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268


From neumann at snsb.de  Fri May  7 13:18:57 2021
From: neumann at snsb.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 19:18:57 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0@snsb.de>

Maybe things started to go wrong after the deep trauma Isaac got when he 
was hit by this apple? Gradually, and after a rich experience of 
applying all sorts of interesting calculations, conversions and 
transformations, the English are surfacing on the metric world.

;-)

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 07.05.2021 um 18:45 schrieb Simon Moore:
> That?s true John,
>
> You have to understand that anything weights and measures-wise that emanated from England before about 1900 was bound to be complicated!
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
>
>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 17:21, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for catching it:  Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is, so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.
>>
>> The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the concentration of the alcohol.
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The reference for the book is:
>> Simmons, John E. 2014. Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference. Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher, and other sellers.
>>
>> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in flowers).
>>
>> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol content than rum, actually work better).
>>
>> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in the process).
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>
>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH. He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Dear Mare,
>>
>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <PastedGraphic-2.tiff><MA logo.jpg>
>>
>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>
>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> ~Mare
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se> wrote:
>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>
>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>>>
>>> 1.       To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>
>>> 2.       Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>>>
>>> 3.       Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>
>>> 4.       If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>
>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>>>
>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>
>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> ZOO
>>>
>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>
>>> PO Box 50007
>>>
>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>>
>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>
>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>
>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>
>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tonya,
>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>>>
>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>
>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> --John
>>>
>>> John E. Simmons
>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>> Museologica
>>> and
>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>> Penn State University
>>> and
>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Tonya
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>   
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <image004.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> Postanschrift:
>>>
>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>
>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> postal address:
>>>
>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>
>>> Visit our section at:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


-- 


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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From jpandey at aibs.org  Fri May  7 15:12:56 2021
From: jpandey at aibs.org (Jyotsna Pandey)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:12:56 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] AIBS Writing for Impact and Influence Online Course:
 Register Now
In-Reply-To: <CAOuC=0Gr=V3JSi+9Vsd_oWA_hSR0Qg-tzeGacL2gxh4WZhA8Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOuC=0GqCW=2ozGTu0h79wyMzkd2RZW-hKutLx_tN-4VBYPx7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0EpNjw=Z0ZL0MjuW4e4LWb=tuU=BTXKXVgV7x_KxmXTZg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0F6jO35OXy41s3GYuiKfVuZBPY29H0jRE-JuSW2XRyi_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0Gqfe30baYvWhd+-js1tLVWBc=QG=ACFbGkmQ6CCH7_9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0FASLhJ1t0aOL0qcwm7nMYO87TbfkidkgrNjX2rs+3CoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0Fi3ijUir-Mk87UCwRFOu2g6iWpi3hN=3aLRY5NkH9U-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0HTx-zt-Z2aeP0LdMX-5AL12KcbcX5feo0gRnp5-_mzHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0H1=bKkuM-0-hrb0doF45FdyeNBg-5bL_=77CjVX1O07Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0E0QiN4fo6pVbC4VwqOpY4RJct43PkHcZFoGt3K1kBEUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0ED5ogS1G0WB5_g_Pb8WSFeR3jc=wQH-D7DB8xFEMU2tg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0HpM=x+Sjm=rr9kUVrvFcQnbGxKPOp_hQuo=G-Qk9+5cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0FimWtKezESCjavfTPMoubFESpOx+N1vV=_KdOs37nYGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0Ed-vsEzF06+F6KsKGQD+Pu2SGy_sdUMk4D2E3XX9wCOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0Gr=V3JSi+9Vsd_oWA_hSR0Qg-tzeGacL2gxh4WZhA8Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOuC=0HrCA2ATBS5JsJ7rWR879rKEdDzeVPxqszFYacTDc6rpg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

There is a growing recognition of the importance of providing scientists,
particularly graduate students and post-doctoral fellows, with professional
development training that will expand their career opportunities and
potential for professional success.  The American Institute of Biological
Sciences (AIBS) is pleased to announce a professional development program
that we have developed to help scientists strengthen their written
communication
skills.

This is an important professional development training opportunity.  I hope
you will consider sharing this opportunity with your students, staff, and
colleagues.

Below are more specific details about this online course, including
registration information.

*Writing for Impact and Influence: An AIBS Professional Development Program*

*It is perfectly okay to write garbage?as long as you edit brilliantly. *
-C. J. Cherryh

The American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS) has heard a common
refrain from faculty, scientists, government and private sector executives,
and everyone in between: Scientists are increasingly responsible for public
engagement and business writing, yet they are rarely given the tools they
need to succeed.

AIBS is responding by re-offering our professional development program
designed to help scientists, including graduate students, hone their
written communication skills to increase the impact and influence of their
message. This course complements AIBS?s highly successful Communications
Boot Camp for Scientists, which focuses on oral communication.

Writing for Impact and Influence provides practical instruction and
hands-on exercises that will improve the participant?s general writing
proficiency. The program will provide participants with the skills and
tools needed to compose scientific press releases, blog posts, memoranda,
and more, with a focus on the reader experience. Each product-oriented
session will have an assignment (deadlines are flexible), with feedback
from the instructor. The course is interactive, and participants are
encouraged to ask questions and exchange ideas with the instructor and
other participants. Each session is also recorded and shared with all
participants to accommodate scheduling conflicts.

*Who Should Take the Course?*

   - Individuals interested in furthering their professional development by
   augmenting their writing skills.
   - Graduate students and early-career professionals interested in
   increasing their marketability to employers.
   - Individuals interested in more effectively informing and influencing
   segments of the public, supervisors, policymakers, reporters,
   organizational leaders, and others.

*Sample Topics*

   - Press releases and writing for the media
   - Blogging and social media campaigns
   - Writing for professional audiences
   - One-pagers and writing for stakeholders
   - Action/decision memoranda
   - Synthesis

*Course Structure*
The course consists of six 90-minute online modules conducted live and
subsequently archived online for participant review. Modules are spaced at
weekly intervals to allow time for assignment completion. Live attendance
is recommended but not required, and the instructor can be contacted by
email at any time during the course.

*Assignments*
A writing assignment will be given in each of the first five courses.
Students will receive timely feedback on their assignments.

*Schedule*
The course will begin on Thursday, 1 July 2021. The subsequent course
sessions will be held weekly on Thursdays, through 5 August. All live
courses will begin at 2:00 p.m. Eastern time. Recorded programs will be
available to participants after the live session.

*Registration*
Space is limited and the course will be filled on a first-come,
first-served basis. Registration is required. To register for the course,
go to http://io.aibs.org/writing

For questions regarding the course please contact James Verdier at
jverdier at aibs.org.

Sincerely,
Jyotsna
___________________
Jyotsna Pandey, Ph.D.
Director of Public Policy, American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS)
950 Herndon Parkway Suite 450
Herndon, VA 20170
Phone: 202-628-1500 x 225
AIBS website: www.aibs.org
Follow AIBS on Twitter! @AIBSbiology <https://twitter.com/aibsbiology>

-- 
This message is confidential and should only be read by its intended 
recipients.?
If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and 
delete all copies.
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From gameier at d.umn.edu  Fri May  7 16:36:40 2021
From: gameier at d.umn.edu (Gretchen Meier)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:36:40 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID: <CA+Wdk7m_djb2WYgHRxmLnsaGGcfXv81GM6f+G0jOwFy9xe=g1g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there!
Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later
dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure
I want to bring that into a classroom.  Any suggestions?

-- 
Gretchen Meier (*she/her/hers*)
Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
University of Minnesota Duluth
gameier at d.umn.edu
218.726.6542

*Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer *
'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying back'
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From abentley at ku.edu  Fri May  7 17:07:11 2021
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 21:07:11 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC opening mixer
Message-ID: <2C40737A-5902-4FFF-84CD-91E8912F1199@ku.edu>

Hi all

There appears to be an issue with the link to the SPNHC mixer on the AIC website.  If you are trying to join us go here:  https://www.kumospace.com/spnhc2021

Andy

     A  :                A  :               A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                  V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>

     A  :                A  :                A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                   V

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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Sat May  8 07:27:21 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 12:27:21 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
In-Reply-To: <CA+Wdk7m_djb2WYgHRxmLnsaGGcfXv81GM6f+G0jOwFy9xe=g1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Wdk7m_djb2WYgHRxmLnsaGGcfXv81GM6f+G0jOwFy9xe=g1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D26CCE6C-9073-4815-9714-B1E69BC50B38@btinternet.com>

Hi Gretchen 
This is a tricky one as preservation of fugitive pigments that flowers contain is a bit of a biochemical mixture.  Someone may have experience of this but the slightly oily texture of vodka might be good as a short term preservative. Adding some Bitrex, denatonium benzoate, should discourage anyone sampling! Or use tubes with tight closures?

With all good wishes, Simon 
Simon Moore MiSct, FLS, RRScI, ACR,
Conservator of natural sciences 
Sent from my iPad

> On 7 May 2021, at 21:36, Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi there!
> Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure I want to bring that into a classroom.  Any suggestions?
> 
> -- 
> Gretchen Meier (she/her/hers)
> Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
> University of Minnesota Duluth
> gameier at d.umn.edu
> 218.726.6542
> 
> Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer 
> 'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying back'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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From nscharff at snm.ku.dk  Mon May 10 12:21:18 2021
From: nscharff at snm.ku.dk (Nikolaj Scharff)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:21:18 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Head of Conservation Unit at the Natural History Museum
 of Denmark (NHMD)
Message-ID: <955e7537e7fc49ca8e5030a8252397bb@snm.ku.dk>

The Natural History Museum of Denmark (NHMD) is seeking an experienced natural history conservator to establish and manage a Conservation Unit which is to be established at the NHMD.

In the coming years, the primary focus of the Conservation Unit will be to conserve, prepare and install objects for the new permanent galleries which are currently being developed in connection with the build of a new national Natural History Museum in the midst of Copenhagen. Currently, seven exhibition core groups are developing the content of the new permanent galleries, which are planned to open to the public in October 2024 (https://nyt.snm.ku.dk/english/).

An exciting opportunity to be part of the new museum project. Check the job announcement below!

https://candidate.hr-manager.net/ApplicationInit.aspx/?cid=1307&departmentId=19220&ProjectId=154054&MediaId=5&SkipAdvertisement=false

Best wishes
Nikolaj Scharff

----------------------------------------------------------
Nikolaj Scharff, PhD
Deputy Museum Director
Professor, Head of Collections & Research

Natural History Museum of Denmark
Zoological Museum, University of Copenhagen
Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 Copenhagen
DENMARK

E-mail: nscharff at snm.ku.dk<mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk>
Webpage: http://snm.ku.dk/people/nscharff
----------------------------------------------------------




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From simmons.johne at gmail.com  Mon May 10 14:10:51 2021
From: simmons.johne at gmail.com (John E Simmons)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:10:51 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
In-Reply-To: <CA+Wdk7m_djb2WYgHRxmLnsaGGcfXv81GM6f+G0jOwFy9xe=g1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Wdk7m_djb2WYgHRxmLnsaGGcfXv81GM6f+G0jOwFy9xe=g1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF7GCDbrLDSpFEYuRA5Hi1bg5J3oPOppJj=29_ijOokGq84sUw@mail.gmail.com>

Gretchen,

I was hoping that a botanist might respond on the list with a
recommendation for you (botany is not my specialty). I can tell you that
the original Kew mixture was 53 percent industrial methylated spirits (IMS,
which is ethyl alcohol containing 9 percent water and 2?4 percent
methanol), 37 percent water, 5 percent formalin (?dilute formaldehyde?),
and 5 percent glycerol (Forman and Bridson 1989).



A note in the second edition of *The Herbarium Handbook* (1992) stated that
due to controls on hazardous chemicals, the original formula at Kew had
been withdrawn and replaced by a mixture of ?70% alcohol (ethanol, or
ethanol + trace of methanol), 29% water and 1% glycerol. If using 90%
strength Industrial Methylated Spirit (IMS) the mixture is 78% IMS, 21%
water and 1% glycerol. With different strengths of IMS the proportions must
be adjusted accordingly? (Forman and Bridson 1989, 210).



In the third edition (Bridson and Forman 1998) the Kew mixture recipe was
ten parts IMS, one part formalin, one part glycerol, and eight parts water.


The Kew mixture was supposed to help preserve the color in plants. If your
concern is just to preserve flowers sufficiently for them to be dissected,
you might try 70% ETOH, with no other additions. If the specimens are not
intended to be saved as museum specimens, you could use denatured 70% ETOH,
which is considerably less expensive.


Hope this helps.


--John


John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:37 PM Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu> wrote:

> Hi there!
> Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later
> dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure
> I want to bring that into a classroom.  Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Gretchen Meier (*she/her/hers*)
> Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
> University of Minnesota Duluth
> gameier at d.umn.edu
> 218.726.6542
>
> *Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer *
> 'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying
> back'
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From neumann at snsb.de  Mon May 10 16:35:01 2021
From: neumann at snsb.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 22:35:01 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDbrLDSpFEYuRA5Hi1bg5J3oPOppJj=29_ijOokGq84sUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Wdk7m_djb2WYgHRxmLnsaGGcfXv81GM6f+G0jOwFy9xe=g1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDbrLDSpFEYuRA5Hi1bg5J3oPOppJj=29_ijOokGq84sUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c0225cc-fd76-f642-f9d6-5e3ee84225a8@snsb.de>

... it might be worth adding that some denaturants as some ketones are 
also used as component in chromatography and extract pigments quite well 
(not all, put some). Natural colours can be caused by quite different 
effects and sources, e.g., pigments, unsaturated [metal] ions as key 
element in chelating agents, optical refraction on crystals embedded in 
tissues, etc..

Often, the effect of visual colour we see in the specimens we collect is 
caused by electron excitation in biomolecules, which cause changes in 
the bonding or chemistry of respective molecules. Most of our fixatives 
and storage fluids tend to be highly polar, and through polarisation or 
depolarisation of respective biomolecules, colours usually fade - cf. 
colour reaction in many indicators we use.

There are few natural pigments that are stable, but admittedly few. And 
I would always be careful with bright coloured, historic teaching 
specimens prepared around 1900 ... As old bold bright paints, the 
ingredient are rarely healthy (and usually containing heavy metals such 
as cadmium, chrome, lead, etc.)

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 10.05.2021 um 20:10 schrieb John E Simmons:
> Gretchen,
>
> I was hoping that a botanist might respond on the list with a 
> recommendation for you (botany is not my specialty). I can tell you 
> that the original Kew mixture was 53 percent industrial methylated 
> spirits (IMS, which is ethyl alcohol containing 9 percent water and 
> 2?4 percent methanol), 37 percent water, 5 percent formalin (?dilute 
> formaldehyde?), and 5 percent glycerol (Forman and Bridson 1989).
>
> A note in the second edition of /The Herbarium Handbook/ (1992) stated 
> that due to controls on hazardous chemicals, the original formula at 
> Kew had been withdrawn and replaced by a mixture of ?70% alcohol 
> (ethanol, or ethanol + trace of methanol), 29% water and 1% glycerol. 
> If using 90% strength Industrial Methylated Spirit (IMS) the mixture 
> is 78% IMS, 21% water and 1% glycerol. With different strengths of IMS 
> the proportions must be adjusted accordingly? (Forman and Bridson 
> 1989, 210).
>
> In the third edition (Bridson and Forman 1998) the Kew mixture recipe 
> was ten parts IMS, one part formalin, one part glycerol, and eight 
> parts water.
>
>
> The Kew mixture was supposed to help preserve the color in plants. If 
> your concern is just to preserve flowers sufficiently for them to be 
> dissected, you might try 70% ETOH, with no other additions. If the 
> specimens are not intended to be saved as museum specimens, you could 
> use denatured 70% ETOH, which is considerably less expensive.
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> --John
>
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> /and/
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> /and/
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:37 PM Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu 
> <mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Hi there!
>     Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers
>     for later dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about
>     40%) but I'm not sure I want to bring that into a classroom.? Any
>     suggestions?
>
>     -- 
>     Gretchen Meier (/she/her/hers/)
>     Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
>     University of Minnesota Duluth
>     gameier at d.umn.edu <mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
>     218.726.6542
>
>     /Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer /
>     'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come
>     hurrying back'
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Nhcoll-l mailing list
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>
>     _______________________________________________
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>     Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
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>     Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


-- 


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
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81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
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Visit our section at:
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From membership at spnhc.org  Tue May 11 19:27:16 2021
From: membership at spnhc.org (membership at spnhc.org)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 19:27:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC Education DemoCamp 2021
Message-ID: <1620775636.256320094@apps.rackspace.com>


 



The Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections Education Sessional Committee is hosting a virtual [ Natural History Collection Education DemoCamp
 ]( https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/ )The goal is to share, discover, and discuss educational materials that have a framework in natural history. This is building upon our previous iterations of the 'education share fair' that were hosted at the annual meeting. 
 

Where: Zoom, of course!

When: 28th and 29th of June, the amount of time blocks will be dependent on the number of presenters. 

Cost: Free!
 

[ Presenter registration ]( https://docs.google.com/forms/u/1/d/e/1FAIpQLSc-wvV0pxDutboRlywLETIICxEUOOFkJOAd7eAlms5lIdtSqQ/viewform ) is open until June 6th and[  general attendee registration ]( https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZItcuqtqjMsG9GhIqNsWpIaNf7ilXh-gVeF ) will be open up until the event.Please see the [ website  ]( https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/ )for additional details and reach out to us with any questions: [ educationdemocamp at gmail.com ]( mailto:educationdemocamp at gmail.com )

 

Anna Monfils & Molly Philips, Committee Co-Chairs
Jen Bauer & Liz Leith, Committee Co-Secretary
Julie Robinson, Jessa Watters, & Kari Harris, Committee Members
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From Tonya.Haff at csiro.au  Wed May 12 00:35:10 2021
From: Tonya.Haff at csiro.au (Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace))
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 04:35:10 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
Message-ID: <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hello all,

I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or feedback would be very appreciated!

Cheers,

Tonya

---------------------------------------------------------
Dr Tonya Haff
Collection Manager
Australian National Wildlife Collection
National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO
Canberra, Australia
Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)
(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)

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From RogersS at CarnegieMNH.Org  Wed May 12 07:13:02 2021
From: RogersS at CarnegieMNH.Org (Rogers, Steve)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 11:13:02 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
In-Reply-To: <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB4625F82AE7D35AE7C3C8C48CB8529@BL0PR02MB4625.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Greetings Tonya,

The entire inside lining of the egg is certainly susceptible to being eaten. I blew a series of eggs once and did not put them in my screened in drying cabinet. I ended up getting a few phorid flies find their way through the holes, breeding and multiplying. I have also seen various small beetles inside older eggs in the collection within the genus Anthrenus. The cotton surrounding the egg set showing past infestations.

I would recommend freezing them like you would other dry specimens, inside plastic so no condensation on the specimens happens after bringing them up to room temperature.

Stephen P. Rogers (Mr.)
Collection Manager of Section of Birds
Carnegie Museum of Natural History
4400 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh PA 15213-4080
Phone: 412-622-3255
Email: rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org
***************************************************
The views, opinions, and judgments expressed in this message
are solely those of the author. The message contents have not
been reviewed or approved by Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
***************************************************

________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 12:35 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs


Hello all,



I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or feedback would be very appreciated!



Cheers,



Tonya



---------------------------------------------------------

Dr Tonya Haff

Collection Manager

Australian National Wildlife Collection

National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO

Canberra, Australia

Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)

(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)





The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
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From tlabedz1 at unl.edu  Wed May 12 08:57:39 2021
From: tlabedz1 at unl.edu (Thomas Labedz)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 12:57:39 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR02MB4625F82AE7D35AE7C3C8C48CB8529@BL0PR02MB4625.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR02MB4625F82AE7D35AE7C3C8C48CB8529@BL0PR02MB4625.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SA2PR08MB6540D9D4A6094181568742EF86529@SA2PR08MB6540.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Tonya
Agreeing with Stephen I've seen insects in egg collections. I agree strongly with freezing in a plastic container such that condensation does not occur directly on the egg when removed from freezer. While having no direct evidence I suspect that some inks used for curatorial markings on eggs might be water soluble or be poorly bound to the egg surface and condensation poses a risk of information loss.
Thomas

Thomas E. Labedz (Mr.), Collections Manager
Division of Zoology and Division of Botany
University of Nebraska State Museum
Morrill Hall
645 North 14th Street
Lincoln, NE 68588-0338


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Rogers, Steve
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 6:13 AM
To: Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs

Non-NU Email
________________________________
Greetings Tonya,

The entire inside lining of the egg is certainly susceptible to being eaten. I blew a series of eggs once and did not put them in my screened in drying cabinet. I ended up getting a few phorid flies find their way through the holes, breeding and multiplying. I have also seen various small beetles inside older eggs in the collection within the genus Anthrenus. The cotton surrounding the egg set showing past infestations.

I would recommend freezing them like you would other dry specimens, inside plastic so no condensation on the specimens happens after bringing them up to room temperature.

Stephen P. Rogers (Mr.)
Collection Manager of Section of Birds
Carnegie Museum of Natural History
4400 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh PA 15213-4080
Phone: 412-622-3255
Email: rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org<mailto:rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org>
***************************************************
The views, opinions, and judgments expressed in this message
are solely those of the author. The message contents have not
been reviewed or approved by Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
***************************************************

________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 12:35 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs


Hello all,



I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or feedback would be very appreciated!



Cheers,



Tonya



---------------------------------------------------------

Dr Tonya Haff

Collection Manager

Australian National Wildlife Collection

National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO

Canberra, Australia

Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)

(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)





The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
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From Shayne.Rivers at westdean.ac.uk  Wed May 12 07:18:35 2021
From: Shayne.Rivers at westdean.ac.uk (Shayne Rivers)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 11:18:35 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR02MB4625F82AE7D35AE7C3C8C48CB8529@BL0PR02MB4625.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR02MB4625F82AE7D35AE7C3C8C48CB8529@BL0PR02MB4625.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <LO2P123MB41590ED8D4A8DBC026016CF8D2529@LO2P123MB4159.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi Tonya,
I have seen blown eggs act as a reservoir for carpet beetle, as Stephen has suggested. They were in the drawer of a specimen cabinet in a furniture gallery.
You only need to freeze if there are signs of active infestation, as there is no ongoing preventive effect.
All the best,
Shayne

Shayne Rivers | Subject Leader MA Collections Care and Conservation Management
Part of The Edward James Foundation Ltd, a registered charity
West Dean | Chichester | West Sussex | PO18 0QZ
Mob 07917 847 475
shayne.rivers at westdean.ac.uk<mailto:shayne.rivers at westdean.ac.uk>


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Rogers, Steve
Sent: 12 May 2021 12:13
To: Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs

Greetings Tonya,

The entire inside lining of the egg is certainly susceptible to being eaten. I blew a series of eggs once and did not put them in my screened in drying cabinet. I ended up getting a few phorid flies find their way through the holes, breeding and multiplying. I have also seen various small beetles inside older eggs in the collection within the genus Anthrenus. The cotton surrounding the egg set showing past infestations.

I would recommend freezing them like you would other dry specimens, inside plastic so no condensation on the specimens happens after bringing them up to room temperature.

Stephen P. Rogers (Mr.)
Collection Manager of Section of Birds
Carnegie Museum of Natural History
4400 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh PA 15213-4080
Phone: 412-622-3255
Email: rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org<mailto:rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org>
***************************************************
The views, opinions, and judgments expressed in this message
are solely those of the author. The message contents have not
been reviewed or approved by Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
***************************************************

________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 12:35 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs


Hello all,



I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or feedback would be very appreciated!



Cheers,



Tonya



---------------------------------------------------------

Dr Tonya Haff

Collection Manager

Australian National Wildlife Collection

National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO

Canberra, Australia

Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)

(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)





The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
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From camswift at pacbell.net  Wed May 12 12:54:21 2021
From: camswift at pacbell.net (Camm Swift)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 16:54:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Nhcoll-l Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2061.1620794234.1784.nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu>
References: <mailman.2061.1620794234.1784.nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu>
Message-ID: <12654403.1900686.1620838462022@mail.yahoo.com>

 Very interesting and comprehensive accounts of alcohol use.? Perhaps covered in Simmon's book, but in the USA, 1950s-1970s at least, considerable use of isopropyl alcohol occurred with fish collections often having jars of both and intentional and inadvertent mixing and/or replacement of one with the other.? Usually dispensing with the isopropyl and replacing with ethanol.? Even collections sticking with ethanol could be faced with taking on orphaned collections in ispropyl so it is something to be dealt with.? I believe since the adverse effects on histology and DNA by isopropyl came to light few if any collections still use isopropyl but it is a strong historical presence in some collections even if just as a residual.? Camm Swift
    On Wednesday, May 12, 2021, 12:37:23 AM EDT, nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu> wrote:  
 
 Send Nhcoll-l mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

? 1. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
? ? ? (Simon Moore)
? 2. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
? ? ? (Mare Nazaire)
? 3. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
? ? ? (John E Simmons)
? 4. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
? ? ? (Mare Nazaire)
? 5. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
? ? ? (John E Simmons)
? 6. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
? ? ? (Simon Moore)
? 7. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
? ? ? (Dirk Neumann)
? 8. AIBS Writing for Impact and Influence Online Course: Register
? ? ? Now (Jyotsna Pandey)
? 9. Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (Gretchen Meier)
? 10. SPNHC opening mixer (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
? 11. Re: Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (Simon Moore)
? 12. Head of Conservation Unit at the Natural History Museum of
? ? ? Denmark (NHMD) (Nikolaj Scharff)
? 13. Re: Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (John E Simmons)
? 14. Re: Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (Dirk Neumann)
? 15. SPNHC Education DemoCamp 2021 (membership at spnhc.org)
? 16. freezing blown eggs (Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace))


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:18:16 +0100
From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
To: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org>, Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de>
Cc: Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>, NHCOLL-new
??? <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
??? vertebrates
Message-ID: <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A at btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Mare,

I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.? As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.? There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate! 
Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
> 
> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
> 
> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
> 
> Thank you,
> ~Mare
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se> wrote:
> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
> 
>? 
> 
> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
> 
> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a 
 higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
> 
> 1.? ? ? To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
> 
> 2.? ? ? Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
> 
> 3.? ? ? Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
> 
> 4.? ? ? If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
> 
> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
> 
> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
> 
>? 
> 
> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The i
 nitial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of? vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.? From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
> 
>? 
> 
> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
> 
>? 
> 
>? 
> 
> Erik ?hlander
> 
> vertebrate zoology and museum history
> 
>? 
> 
> ZOO
> 
> Swedish Museum of Natural History
> 
> PO Box 50007
> 
> SE-10405 Stockholm
> 
> Sweden
> 
> +46 0 8 5195 4118
> 
> +46 0 70 225 2716
> 
> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
> 
>? 
> 
>? 
> 
>? 
> 
>? 
> 
> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
> 
>? 
> 
> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
> 
>? 
> 
> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
> 
>? 
> 
> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
> 
>? 
> 
> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
> 
>? 
> 
> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
> 
>? 
> 
> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
> 
> Dirk
> 
>? 
> 
>? 
> 
>? 
> 
> <image001.png>
> 
>? 
> 
> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
> 
> Thanks John and Tonya,
> 
>? 
> 
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.? 80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.? Higher grade alcohols? can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
> 
>? 
> 
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
> 
>? 
> 
> With all good wishes, Simon
> 
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
> 
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
> 
> 
> <image002.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred). 
> 
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
> 
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> --John
> 
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH? 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Tonya
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
>? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>? 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>? 
> 
> --
> 
> <image004.png>
> 
> 
> Dirk Neumann
> 
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
> 
> Postanschrift:
> 
> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
> M?nchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 M?nchen
> 
> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
> 
> ---------
> 
> Dirk Neumann
> 
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
> 
> postal address:
> 
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
> Muenchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 Munich (Germany)
> 
> Visit our section at:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 07:55:58 -0700
From: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org>
To: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
Cc: Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de>, Erik ?hlander
??? <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>, NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
??? vertebrates
Message-ID:
??? <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.

I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
wrote:

> Dear Mare,
>
> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.? As Dirk has
> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
> concentration.? There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>
>
>
>
> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>
> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>
> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material
> preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of
> our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of
> 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their
> concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for
> preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the
> citation for this book?
>
> Thank you,
> ~Mare
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>
> wrote:
> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>
>
>
> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>
> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
> careful
>
> 1.? ? ? To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>
> 2.? ? ? Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
> the surface of the specimen only.
>
> 3.? ? ? Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>
> 4.? ? ? If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
> ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>
> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is
> good.
>
> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>
>
>
> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
> collection of? vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.? From 1801-1898 the
> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>
>
>
> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the
> reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Erik ?hlander
>
> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>
>
>
> ZOO
>
> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>
> PO Box 50007
>
> SE-10405 Stockholm
>
> Sweden
>
> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>
> +46 0 70 225 2716
>
> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>
>
>
> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>
>
>
> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed
> to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even
> if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs.
> 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated
> EtOH.
>
>
>
> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>
>
>
> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from
> vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>
>
>
> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects
> before moving them into the collection.
>
>
>
> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>
> Thanks John and Tonya,
>
>
>
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
> concentrations.? 80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
> result is around 70% anyway.? Higher grade alcohols? can lead to
> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>
>
>
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>
>
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
> preferred).
>
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Tonya
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
>
> <image004.png>
>
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> Postanschrift:
>
> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
> M?nchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 M?nchen
>
> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> ---------
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> postal address:
>
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
> Muenchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>
> Visit our section at:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>

-- 
Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
California Botanic Garden
Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
1500 North College Avenue
Claremont, California 91711
909.625.8767 ext. 268
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 11:43:32 -0400
From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
To: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org>
Cc: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>, NHCOLL-new
??? <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
??? vertebrates
Message-ID:
??? <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 The reference for the book is:
Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
and other sellers.

The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
(thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
flowers).

The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
content than rum, actually work better).

Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
the process).

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:

> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>
> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mare,
>>
>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
>> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.? As Dirk has
>> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
>> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
>> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
>> concentration.? There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>
>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>
>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>> provide the citation for this book?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> ~Mare
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>
>> wrote:
>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>
>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>> careful
>>
>> 1.? ? ? To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>
>> 2.? ? ? Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>
>> 3.? ? ? Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>
>> 4.? ? ? If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
>> ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>
>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>> is good.
>>
>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
>> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
>> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>> collection of? vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.? From 1801-1898 the
>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the
>> reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik ?hlander
>>
>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>
>>
>>
>> ZOO
>>
>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>
>> PO Box 50007
>>
>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>
>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>
>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>> concentrated EtOH.
>>
>>
>>
>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>
>>
>>
>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <image001.png>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>
>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>
>>
>>
>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>> concentrations.? 80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>> result is around 70% anyway.? Higher grade alcohols? can lead to
>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>
>>
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <image002.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Tonya,
>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>> preferred).
>>
>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>
>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
>> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
>> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
>> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
>> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
>> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
>> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
>> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
>> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
>> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
>> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Tonya
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> <image004.png>
>>
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> Postanschrift:
>>
>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 M?nchen
>>
>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> postal address:
>>
>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>
>> Visit our section at:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 09:02:29 -0700
From: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org>
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
Cc: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>, NHCOLL-new
??? <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
??? vertebrates
Message-ID:
??? <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The reference for the book is:
> Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
> Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
> and other sellers.
>
> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
> (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
> research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
> mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
> flowers).
>
> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
> history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
> fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
> concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
> beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
> a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
> inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
> content than rum, actually work better).
>
> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
> improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
> an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
> after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
> on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
> chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
> making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
> the process).
>
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> *and*
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> *and*
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>
>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
>> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
>> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
>> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
>> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Mare,
>>>
>>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
>>> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.? As Dirk has
>>> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
>>> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
>>> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
>>> concentration.? There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>
>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>>> provide the citation for this book?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> ~Mare
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>
>>> wrote:
>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>
>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>>> careful
>>>
>>> 1.? ? ? To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>
>>> 2.? ? ? Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>>
>>> 3.? ? ? Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>
>>> 4.? ? ? If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh
>>> (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>
>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>>> is good.
>>>
>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
>>> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
>>> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>>> collection of? vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.? From 1801-1898 the
>>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With
>>> the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>
>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ZOO
>>>
>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>
>>> PO Box 50007
>>>
>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>>
>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>
>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>
>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>>> concentrated EtOH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>
>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>>> concentrations.? 80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>>> result is around 70% anyway.? Higher grade alcohols? can lead to
>>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tonya,
>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>>> preferred).
>>>
>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>
>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> --John
>>>
>>> John E. Simmons
>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>> Museologica
>>> and
>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>> Penn State University
>>> and
>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid
>>> preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of
>>> formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to
>>> 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70%
>>> ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with
>>> specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I
>>> presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or
>>> leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure
>>> that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently
>>> high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have
>>> thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your
>>> specimens up in ETOH?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Tonya
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <image004.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> Postanschrift:
>>>
>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>
>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> postal address:
>>>
>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>
>>> Visit our section at:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>

-- 
Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
California Botanic Garden
Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
1500 North College Avenue
Claremont, California 91711
909.625.8767 ext. 268
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 12:21:02 -0400
From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
To: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org>
Cc: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>, NHCOLL-new
??? <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
??? vertebrates
Message-ID:
??? <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for
catching it:? Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is,
so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.

The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test
the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a
concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit
the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of
alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the
concentration of the alcohol.

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:

> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The reference for the book is:
>> Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
>> Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
>> and other sellers.
>>
>> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
>> (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
>> research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
>> mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
>> flowers).
>>
>> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
>> history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
>> fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
>> concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
>> beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
>> a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
>> inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
>> content than rum, actually work better).
>>
>> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
>> improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
>> an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
>> after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
>> on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
>> chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
>> making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
>> the process).
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> *and*
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> *and*
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>>
>>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
>>> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
>>> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
>>> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
>>> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Mare,
>>>>
>>>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then
>>>> transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.
>>>> As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly
>>>> between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which
>>>> can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a
>>>> lower concentration.? There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>>>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>>>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>>>
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>>
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>>
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>>
>>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>>>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>>>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>>>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>>>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>>>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>>>> provide the citation for this book?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> ~Mare
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>>
>>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>>>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>>>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>>>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>>>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>>>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>>>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>>>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>>>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>>>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>>>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>>>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>>>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>>>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>>>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>>>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>>>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>>>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>>>> careful
>>>>
>>>> 1.? ? ? To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>>
>>>> 2.? ? ? Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>>>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>>>
>>>> 3.? ? ? Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>>
>>>> 4.? ? ? If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh
>>>> (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>>
>>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>>>> is good.
>>>>
>>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at
>>>> an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the
>>>> removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>>>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>>>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>>>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>>>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>>>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>>>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>>>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>>>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>>>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>>>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>>>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>>>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>>>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>>>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>>>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>>>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>>>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>>>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>>>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>>>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>>>> collection of? vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>>>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>>>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>>>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.? From 1801-1898 the
>>>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>>>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With
>>>> the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>>>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>>>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>>
>>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ZOO
>>>>
>>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>>
>>>> PO Box 50007
>>>>
>>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>>
>>>> Sweden
>>>>
>>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>>
>>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>>
>>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>>>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>>>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>>>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>>>> concentrated EtOH.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>>>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>>>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>>>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>>>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>>>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>>>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>>>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>>>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>>>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>>>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>>>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>>>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>>>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>>>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>>>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>>
>>>> Dirk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>>>> concentrations.? 80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>>>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>>>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>>>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>>>> result is around 70% anyway.? Higher grade alcohols? can lead to
>>>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>>>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>>>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>>
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>>
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tonya,
>>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>>>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>>>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>>>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>>>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>>>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>>>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>>>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>>>> preferred).
>>>>
>>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>>>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>>>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>>
>>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>>>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>>>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>>>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>>>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> --John
>>>>
>>>> John E. Simmons
>>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>>> Museologica
>>>> and
>>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>>> Penn State University
>>>> and
>>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos,
>>>> Lima
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>>>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid
>>>> preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of
>>>> formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to
>>>> 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70%
>>>> ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with
>>>> specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I
>>>> presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or
>>>> leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure
>>>> that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently
>>>> high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have
>>>> thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your
>>>> specimens up in ETOH?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Tonya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> <image004.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>
>>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>>
>>>> Postanschrift:
>>>>
>>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>>
>>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>>
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>>
>>>> postal address:
>>>>
>>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>>
>>>> Visit our section at:
>>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>>> California Botanic Garden
>>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 17:45:57 +0100
From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
Cc: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org>, NHCOLL-new
??? <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
??? vertebrates
Message-ID: <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B at btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset=utf-8

That?s true John,

You have to understand that anything weights and measures-wise that emanated from England before about 1900 was bound to be complicated!

With all good wishes, Simon



> On 7 May 2021, at 17:21, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for catching it:? Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is, so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.
> 
> The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the concentration of the alcohol.
> 
> --John
> 
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
> The reference for the book is:
> Simmons, John E. 2014. Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference. Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher, and other sellers.
> 
> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in flowers).
> 
> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol content than rum, actually work better).
> 
> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in the process).
> 
> --John
> 
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
> 
> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH. He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
> 
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com> wrote:
> Dear Mare,
> 
> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.? As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.? There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate! 
> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
> 
> With all good wishes, Simon
> 
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
> 
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
> 
> 
> <PastedGraphic-2.tiff><MA logo.jpg>
> 
>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>> 
>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>> 
>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> ~Mare
>> 
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se> wrote:
>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>> 
>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a
? higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>> 
>> 1.? ? ? To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>> 
>> 2.? ? ? Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>> 
>> 3.? ? ? Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>> 
>> 4.? ? ? If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>> 
>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>> 
>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The 
 initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. >From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of? vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.? From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> Erik ?hlander
>> 
>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> ZOO
>> 
>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>> 
>> PO Box 50007
>> 
>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>> 
>> Sweden
>> 
>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>> 
>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>> 
>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>> 
>> Dirk
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> <image001.png>
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>> 
>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.? 80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.? Higher grade alcohols? can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>> 
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>> 
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>> 
>> 
>> <image002.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Tonya,
>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred). 
>> 
>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>> 
>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> --John
>> 
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH? 
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> Tonya
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> 
>>? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>? 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>? 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> <image004.png>
>> 
>> 
>> Dirk Neumann
>> 
>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>> 
>> Postanschrift:
>> 
>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 M?nchen
>> 
>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>> 
>> ---------
>> 
>> Dirk Neumann
>> 
>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>> 
>> postal address:
>> 
>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>> 
>> Visit our section at:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 19:18:57 +0200
From: Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
??? vertebrates
Message-ID: <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0 at snsb.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Maybe things started to go wrong after the deep trauma Isaac got when he 
was hit by this apple? Gradually, and after a rich experience of 
applying all sorts of interesting calculations, conversions and 
transformations, the English are surfacing on the metric world.

;-)

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 07.05.2021 um 18:45 schrieb Simon Moore:
> That?s true John,
>
> You have to understand that anything weights and measures-wise that emanated from England before about 1900 was bound to be complicated!
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
>
>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 17:21, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for catching it:? Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is, so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.
>>
>> The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the concentration of the alcohol.
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The reference for the book is:
>> Simmons, John E. 2014. Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference. Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher, and other sellers.
>>
>> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in flowers).
>>
>> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol content than rum, actually work better).
>>
>> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in the process).
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>
>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH. He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Dear Mare,
>>
>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.? As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.? There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <PastedGraphic-2.tiff><MA logo.jpg>
>>
>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>
>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> ~Mare
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se> wrote:
>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>
>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in 
 a higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>>>
>>> 1.? ? ? To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>
>>> 2.? ? ? Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>>>
>>> 3.? ? ? Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>
>>> 4.? ? ? If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>
>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>>>
>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The
? initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of? vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.? From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>
>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> ZOO
>>>
>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>
>>> PO Box 50007
>>>
>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>>
>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>
>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>
>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>
>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.? 80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.? Higher grade alcohols? can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tonya,
>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>>>
>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>
>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> --John
>>>
>>> John E. Simmons
>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>> Museologica
>>> and
>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>> Penn State University
>>> and
>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Tonya
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>? 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>? 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>? 
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <image004.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> Postanschrift:
>>>
>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>
>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> postal address:
>>>
>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>
>>> Visit our section at:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


-- 


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:12:56 -0400
From: Jyotsna Pandey <jpandey at aibs.org>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] AIBS Writing for Impact and Influence Online
??? Course: Register Now
Message-ID:
??? <CAOuC=0HrCA2ATBS5JsJ7rWR879rKEdDzeVPxqszFYacTDc6rpg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Colleagues,

There is a growing recognition of the importance of providing scientists,
particularly graduate students and post-doctoral fellows, with professional
development training that will expand their career opportunities and
potential for professional success.? The American Institute of Biological
Sciences (AIBS) is pleased to announce a professional development program
that we have developed to help scientists strengthen their written
communication
skills.

This is an important professional development training opportunity.? I hope
you will consider sharing this opportunity with your students, staff, and
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Below are more specific details about this online course, including
registration information.

*Writing for Impact and Influence: An AIBS Professional Development Program*

*It is perfectly okay to write garbage?as long as you edit brilliantly. *
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AIBS is responding by re-offering our professional development program
designed to help scientists, including graduate students, hone their
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? - Individuals interested in furthering their professional development by
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? - Graduate students and early-career professionals interested in
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The course consists of six 90-minute online modules conducted live and
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A writing assignment will be given in each of the first five courses.
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___________________
Jyotsna Pandey, Ph.D.
Director of Public Policy, American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS)
950 Herndon Parkway Suite 450
Herndon, VA 20170
Phone: 202-628-1500 x 225
AIBS website: www.aibs.org
Follow AIBS on Twitter! @AIBSbiology <https://twitter.com/aibsbiology>

-- 
This message is confidential and should only be read by its intended 
recipients.?
If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and 
delete all copies.
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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:36:40 -0500
From: Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID:
??? <CA+Wdk7m_djb2WYgHRxmLnsaGGcfXv81GM6f+G0jOwFy9xe=g1g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi there!
Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later
dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure
I want to bring that into a classroom.? Any suggestions?

-- 
Gretchen Meier (*she/her/hers*)
Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
University of Minnesota Duluth
gameier at d.umn.edu
218.726.6542

*Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer *
'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying back'
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 21:07:11 +0000
From: "Bentley, Andrew Charles" <abentley at ku.edu>
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC opening mixer
Message-ID: <2C40737A-5902-4FFF-84CD-91E8912F1199 at ku.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi all

There appears to be an issue with the link to the SPNHC mixer on the AIC website.? If you are trying to join us go here:? https://www.kumospace.com/spnhc2021

Andy

? ? A? :? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A? :? ? ? ? ? ? ? A? :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
? ? V? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? V? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>

? ? A? :? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A? :? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A? :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
? ? V? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? V? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? V

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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 12:27:21 +0100
From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
To: Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID: <D26CCE6C-9073-4815-9714-B1E69BC50B38 at btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Gretchen 
This is a tricky one as preservation of fugitive pigments that flowers contain is a bit of a biochemical mixture.? Someone may have experience of this but the slightly oily texture of vodka might be good as a short term preservative. Adding some Bitrex, denatonium benzoate, should discourage anyone sampling! Or use tubes with tight closures?

With all good wishes, Simon 
Simon Moore MiSct, FLS, RRScI, ACR,
Conservator of natural sciences 
Sent from my iPad

> On 7 May 2021, at 21:36, Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi there!
> Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure I want to bring that into a classroom.? Any suggestions?
> 
> -- 
> Gretchen Meier (she/her/hers)
> Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
> University of Minnesota Duluth
> gameier at d.umn.edu
> 218.726.6542
> 
> Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer 
> 'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying back'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:21:18 +0000
From: Nikolaj Scharff <nscharff at snm.ku.dk>
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Head of Conservation Unit at the Natural History
??? Museum of Denmark (NHMD)
Message-ID: <955e7537e7fc49ca8e5030a8252397bb at snm.ku.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The Natural History Museum of Denmark (NHMD) is seeking an experienced natural history conservator to establish and manage a Conservation Unit which is to be established at the NHMD.

In the coming years, the primary focus of the Conservation Unit will be to conserve, prepare and install objects for the new permanent galleries which are currently being developed in connection with the build of a new national Natural History Museum in the midst of Copenhagen. Currently, seven exhibition core groups are developing the content of the new permanent galleries, which are planned to open to the public in October 2024 (https://nyt.snm.ku.dk/english/).

An exciting opportunity to be part of the new museum project. Check the job announcement below!

https://candidate.hr-manager.net/ApplicationInit.aspx/?cid=1307&departmentId=19220&ProjectId=154054&MediaId=5&SkipAdvertisement=false

Best wishes
Nikolaj Scharff

----------------------------------------------------------
Nikolaj Scharff, PhD
Deputy Museum Director
Professor, Head of Collections & Research

Natural History Museum of Denmark
Zoological Museum, University of Copenhagen
Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 Copenhagen
DENMARK

E-mail: nscharff at snm.ku.dk<mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk>
Webpage: http://snm.ku.dk/people/nscharff
----------------------------------------------------------




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:10:51 -0400
From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
To: Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID:
??? <CAF7GCDbrLDSpFEYuRA5Hi1bg5J3oPOppJj=29_ijOokGq84sUw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Gretchen,

I was hoping that a botanist might respond on the list with a
recommendation for you (botany is not my specialty). I can tell you that
the original Kew mixture was 53 percent industrial methylated spirits (IMS,
which is ethyl alcohol containing 9 percent water and 2?4 percent
methanol), 37 percent water, 5 percent formalin (?dilute formaldehyde?),
and 5 percent glycerol (Forman and Bridson 1989).



A note in the second edition of *The Herbarium Handbook* (1992) stated that
due to controls on hazardous chemicals, the original formula at Kew had
been withdrawn and replaced by a mixture of ?70% alcohol (ethanol, or
ethanol + trace of methanol), 29% water and 1% glycerol. If using 90%
strength Industrial Methylated Spirit (IMS) the mixture is 78% IMS, 21%
water and 1% glycerol. With different strengths of IMS the proportions must
be adjusted accordingly? (Forman and Bridson 1989, 210).



In the third edition (Bridson and Forman 1998) the Kew mixture recipe was
ten parts IMS, one part formalin, one part glycerol, and eight parts water.


The Kew mixture was supposed to help preserve the color in plants. If your
concern is just to preserve flowers sufficiently for them to be dissected,
you might try 70% ETOH, with no other additions. If the specimens are not
intended to be saved as museum specimens, you could use denatured 70% ETOH,
which is considerably less expensive.


Hope this helps.


--John


John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:37 PM Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu> wrote:

> Hi there!
> Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later
> dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure
> I want to bring that into a classroom.? Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Gretchen Meier (*she/her/hers*)
> Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
> University of Minnesota Duluth
> gameier at d.umn.edu
> 218.726.6542
>
> *Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer *
> 'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying
> back'
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 22:35:01 +0200
From: Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID: <4c0225cc-fd76-f642-f9d6-5e3ee84225a8 at snsb.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

... it might be worth adding that some denaturants as some ketones are 
also used as component in chromatography and extract pigments quite well 
(not all, put some). Natural colours can be caused by quite different 
effects and sources, e.g., pigments, unsaturated [metal] ions as key 
element in chelating agents, optical refraction on crystals embedded in 
tissues, etc..

Often, the effect of visual colour we see in the specimens we collect is 
caused by electron excitation in biomolecules, which cause changes in 
the bonding or chemistry of respective molecules. Most of our fixatives 
and storage fluids tend to be highly polar, and through polarisation or 
depolarisation of respective biomolecules, colours usually fade - cf. 
colour reaction in many indicators we use.

There are few natural pigments that are stable, but admittedly few. And 
I would always be careful with bright coloured, historic teaching 
specimens prepared around 1900 ... As old bold bright paints, the 
ingredient are rarely healthy (and usually containing heavy metals such 
as cadmium, chrome, lead, etc.)

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 10.05.2021 um 20:10 schrieb John E Simmons:
> Gretchen,
>
> I was hoping that a botanist might respond on the list with a 
> recommendation for you (botany is not my specialty). I can tell you 
> that the original Kew mixture was 53 percent industrial methylated 
> spirits (IMS, which is ethyl alcohol containing 9 percent water and 
> 2?4 percent methanol), 37 percent water, 5 percent formalin (?dilute 
> formaldehyde?), and 5 percent glycerol (Forman and Bridson 1989).
>
> A note in the second edition of /The Herbarium Handbook/ (1992) stated 
> that due to controls on hazardous chemicals, the original formula at 
> Kew had been withdrawn and replaced by a mixture of ?70% alcohol 
> (ethanol, or ethanol + trace of methanol), 29% water and 1% glycerol. 
> If using 90% strength Industrial Methylated Spirit (IMS) the mixture 
> is 78% IMS, 21% water and 1% glycerol. With different strengths of IMS 
> the proportions must be adjusted accordingly? (Forman and Bridson 
> 1989, 210).
>
> In the third edition (Bridson and Forman 1998) the Kew mixture recipe 
> was ten parts IMS, one part formalin, one part glycerol, and eight 
> parts water.
>
>
> The Kew mixture was supposed to help preserve the color in plants. If 
> your concern is just to preserve flowers sufficiently for them to be 
> dissected, you might try 70% ETOH, with no other additions. If the 
> specimens are not intended to be saved as museum specimens, you could 
> use denatured 70% ETOH, which is considerably less expensive.
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> --John
>
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> /and/
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> /and/
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:37 PM Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu 
> <mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>> wrote:
>
>? ? Hi there!
>? ? Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers
>? ? for later dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about
>? ? 40%) but I'm not sure I want to bring that into a classroom.? Any
>? ? suggestions?
>
>? ? -- 
>? ? Gretchen Meier (/she/her/hers/)
>? ? Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
>? ? University of Minnesota Duluth
>? ? gameier at d.umn.edu <mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
>? ? 218.726.6542
>
>? ? /Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer /
>? ? 'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come
>? ? hurrying back'
>
>
>
>? ? _______________________________________________
>? ? Nhcoll-l mailing list
>? ? Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>? ? https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>? ? <https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l>
>
>? ? _______________________________________________
>? ? NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>? ? Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>? ? mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>? ? natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>? ? society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org> for
>? ? membership information.
>? ? Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


-- 


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 19:27:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "membership at spnhc.org" <membership at spnhc.org>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC Education DemoCamp 2021
Message-ID: <1620775636.256320094 at apps.rackspace.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


 



The Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections Education Sessional Committee is hosting a virtual [ Natural History Collection Education DemoCamp
 ]( https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/ )The goal is to share, discover, and discuss educational materials that have a framework in natural history. This is building upon our previous iterations of the 'education share fair' that were hosted at the annual meeting. 
 

Where: Zoom, of course!

When: 28th and 29th of June, the amount of time blocks will be dependent on the number of presenters. 

Cost: Free!
 

[ Presenter registration ]( https://docs.google.com/forms/u/1/d/e/1FAIpQLSc-wvV0pxDutboRlywLETIICxEUOOFkJOAd7eAlms5lIdtSqQ/viewform ) is open until June 6th and[? general attendee registration ]( https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZItcuqtqjMsG9GhIqNsWpIaNf7ilXh-gVeF ) will be open up until the event.Please see the [ website? ]( https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/ )for additional details and reach out to us with any questions: [ educationdemocamp at gmail.com ]( mailto:educationdemocamp at gmail.com )

 

Anna Monfils & Molly Philips, Committee Co-Chairs
Jen Bauer & Liz Leith, Committee Co-Secretary
Julie Robinson, Jessa Watters, & Kari Harris, Committee Members
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 04:35:10 +0000
From: "Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)" <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
Message-ID:
??? <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529 at ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
??? 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello all,

I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or feedback would be very appreciated!

Cheers,

Tonya

---------------------------------------------------------
Dr Tonya Haff
Collection Manager
Australian National Wildlife Collection
National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO
Canberra, Australia
Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)
(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)

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Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


------------------------------

End of Nhcoll-l Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
****************************************
  
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From Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee  Wed May 12 14:09:57 2021
From: Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee (Lennart Lennuk)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 18:09:57 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Nhcoll-l Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <12654403.1900686.1620838462022@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.2061.1620794234.1784.nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu>
 <12654403.1900686.1620838462022@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4eb6ad64e0084d9d8e3bd9bdd2d7967a@loodusmuuseum.ee>

Hi!

Is there a good reference showing isopropyl not suitable for DNA conservation?

Best regards
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
(+372) 6603404, 56569916



From: Nhcoll-l [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Camm Swift
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 7:54 PM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Nhcoll-l Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4

Very interesting and comprehensive accounts of alcohol use.  Perhaps covered in Simmon's book, but in the USA, 1950s-1970s at least, considerable use of isopropyl alcohol occurred with fish collections often having jars of both and intentional and inadvertent mixing and/or replacement of one with the other.  Usually dispensing with the isopropyl and replacing with ethanol.  Even collections sticking with ethanol could be faced with taking on orphaned collections in ispropyl so it is something to be dealt with.  I believe since the adverse effects on histology and DNA by isopropyl came to light few if any collections still use isopropyl but it is a strong historical presence in some collections even if just as a residual.  Camm Swift

On Wednesday, May 12, 2021, 12:37:23 AM EDT, nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu>> wrote:


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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Simon Moore)
  2. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Mare Nazaire)
  3. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (John E Simmons)
  4. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Mare Nazaire)
  5. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (John E Simmons)
  6. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Simon Moore)
  7. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Dirk Neumann)
  8. AIBS Writing for Impact and Influence Online Course: Register
      Now (Jyotsna Pandey)
  9. Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (Gretchen Meier)
  10. SPNHC opening mixer (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
  11. Re: Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (Simon Moore)
  12. Head of Conservation Unit at the Natural History Museum of
      Denmark (NHMD) (Nikolaj Scharff)
  13. Re: Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (John E Simmons)
  14. Re: Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (Dirk Neumann)
  15. SPNHC Education DemoCamp 2021 (membership at spnhc.org<mailto:membership at spnhc.org>)
  16. freezing blown eggs (Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace))


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:18:16 +0100
From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
To: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>, Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de<mailto:neumann at snsb.de>>
Cc: Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID: <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A at btinternet.com<mailto:945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A at btinternet.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Mare,

I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>




> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>
> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>
> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>
> Thank you,
> ~Mare
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>> wrote:
> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>
>
>
> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>
> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a
higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>
> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>
> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>
> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>
> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>
> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>
> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>
>
>
> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The i
nitial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>
>
>
> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Erik ?hlander
>
> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>
>
>
> ZOO
>
> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>
> PO Box 50007
>
> SE-10405 Stockholm
>
> Sweden
>
> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>
> +46 0 70 225 2716
>
> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>
>
>
> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>
>
>
> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>
>
>
> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>
>
>
> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>
>
>
> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>
>
>
> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>
> Thanks John and Tonya,
>
>
>
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>
>
>
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>
>
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Tonya
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
>
> <image004.png>
>
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> Postanschrift:
>
> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
> M?nchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 M?nchen
>
> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> ---------
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> postal address:
>
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
> Muenchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>
> Visit our section at:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
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> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 07:55:58 -0700
From: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>
To: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
Cc: Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de<mailto:neumann at snsb.de>>, Erik ?hlander
    <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>, NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID:
    <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w at mail.gmail.com<mailto:cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.

I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
wrote:

> Dear Mare,
>
> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has
> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
> concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>
>
>
>
> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>
> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>
> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material
> preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of
> our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of
> 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their
> concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for
> preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the
> citation for this book?
>
> Thank you,
> ~Mare
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>
> wrote:
> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>
>
>
> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>
> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
> careful
>
> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>
> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
> the surface of the specimen only.
>
> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>
> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
> ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>
> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is
> good.
>
> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>
>
>
> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>
>
>
> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the
> reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Erik ?hlander
>
> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>
>
>
> ZOO
>
> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>
> PO Box 50007
>
> SE-10405 Stockholm
>
> Sweden
>
> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>
> +46 0 70 225 2716
>
> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>
>
>
> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>
>
>
> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed
> to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even
> if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs.
> 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated
> EtOH.
>
>
>
> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>
>
>
> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from
> vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>
>
>
> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects
> before moving them into the collection.
>
>
>
> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>
> Thanks John and Tonya,
>
>
>
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>
>
>
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>
>
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
> preferred).
>
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Tonya
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
>
> <image004.png>
>
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> Postanschrift:
>
> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
> M?nchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 M?nchen
>
> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> ---------
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> postal address:
>
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
> Muenchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>
> Visit our section at:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>

--
Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
California Botanic Garden
Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
1500 North College Avenue
Claremont, California 91711
909.625.8767 ext. 268
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 11:43:32 -0400
From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
To: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>
Cc: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID:
    <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The reference for the book is:
Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
and other sellers.

The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
(thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
flowers).

The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
content than rum, actually work better).

Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
the process).

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:

> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>
> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mare,
>>
>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
>> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has
>> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
>> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
>> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
>> concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>
>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>
>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>> provide the citation for this book?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> ~Mare
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>
>> wrote:
>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>
>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>> careful
>>
>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>
>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>
>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>
>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
>> ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>
>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>> is good.
>>
>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
>> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
>> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the
>> reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik ?hlander
>>
>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>
>>
>>
>> ZOO
>>
>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>
>> PO Box 50007
>>
>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>
>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>
>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>> concentrated EtOH.
>>
>>
>>
>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>
>>
>>
>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <image001.png>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>
>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>
>>
>>
>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>
>>
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <image002.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Tonya,
>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>> preferred).
>>
>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>
>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
>> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
>> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
>> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
>> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
>> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
>> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
>> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
>> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
>> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
>> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Tonya
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> <image004.png>
>>
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> Postanschrift:
>>
>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 M?nchen
>>
>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> postal address:
>>
>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>
>> Visit our section at:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 09:02:29 -0700
From: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
Cc: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID:
    <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
wrote:

> The reference for the book is:
> Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
> Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
> and other sellers.
>
> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
> (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
> research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
> mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
> flowers).
>
> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
> history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
> fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
> concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
> beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
> a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
> inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
> content than rum, actually work better).
>
> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
> improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
> an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
> after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
> on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
> chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
> making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
> the process).
>
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> *and*
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> *and*
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>
>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
>> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
>> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
>> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
>> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Mare,
>>>
>>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
>>> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has
>>> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
>>> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
>>> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
>>> concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>
>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>>> provide the citation for this book?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> ~Mare
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>
>>> wrote:
>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>
>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>>> careful
>>>
>>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>
>>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>>
>>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>
>>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh
>>> (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>
>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>>> is good.
>>>
>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
>>> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
>>> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>>> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
>>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With
>>> the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>
>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ZOO
>>>
>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>
>>> PO Box 50007
>>>
>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>>
>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>
>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>
>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>>> concentrated EtOH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>
>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>>> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>>> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
>>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tonya,
>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>>> preferred).
>>>
>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>
>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> --John
>>>
>>> John E. Simmons
>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>> Museologica
>>> and
>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>> Penn State University
>>> and
>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid
>>> preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of
>>> formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to
>>> 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70%
>>> ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with
>>> specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I
>>> presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or
>>> leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure
>>> that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently
>>> high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have
>>> thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your
>>> specimens up in ETOH?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Tonya
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <image004.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> Postanschrift:
>>>
>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>
>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> postal address:
>>>
>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>
>>> Visit our section at:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>

--
Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
California Botanic Garden
Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
1500 North College Avenue
Claremont, California 91711
909.625.8767 ext. 268
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 12:21:02 -0400
From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
To: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>
Cc: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID:
    <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA at mail.gmail.com<mailto:2NkzMfoneQA at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for
catching it:  Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is,
so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.

The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test
the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a
concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit
the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of
alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the
concentration of the alcohol.

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>> The reference for the book is:
>> Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
>> Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
>> and other sellers.
>>
>> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
>> (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
>> research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
>> mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
>> flowers).
>>
>> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
>> history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
>> fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
>> concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
>> beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
>> a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
>> inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
>> content than rum, actually work better).
>>
>> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
>> improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
>> an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
>> after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
>> on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
>> chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
>> making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
>> the process).
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> *and*
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> *and*
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>>
>>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
>>> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
>>> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
>>> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
>>> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Mare,
>>>>
>>>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then
>>>> transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.
>>>> As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly
>>>> between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which
>>>> can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a
>>>> lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>>>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>>>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>>>
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>>
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>>
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>>
>>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>>>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>>>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>>>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>>>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>>>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>>>> provide the citation for this book?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> ~Mare
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>>
>>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>>>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>>>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>>>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>>>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>>>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>>>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>>>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>>>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>>>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>>>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>>>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>>>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>>>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>>>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>>>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>>>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>>>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>>>> careful
>>>>
>>>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>>
>>>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>>>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>>>
>>>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>>
>>>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh
>>>> (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>>
>>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>>>> is good.
>>>>
>>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at
>>>> an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the
>>>> removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>>>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>>>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>>>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>>>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>>>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>>>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>>>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>>>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>>>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>>>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>>>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>>>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>>>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>>>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>>>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>>>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>>>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>>>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>>>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>>>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>>>> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>>>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>>>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>>>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
>>>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>>>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With
>>>> the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>>>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>>>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>>
>>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ZOO
>>>>
>>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>>
>>>> PO Box 50007
>>>>
>>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>>
>>>> Sweden
>>>>
>>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>>
>>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>>
>>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>>>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>>>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>>>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>>>> concentrated EtOH.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>>>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>>>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>>>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>>>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>>>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>>>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>>>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>>>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>>>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>>>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>>>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>>>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>>>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>>>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>>>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>>
>>>> Dirk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>>>> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>>>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>>>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>>>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>>>> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
>>>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>>>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>>>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>>
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>>
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tonya,
>>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>>>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>>>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>>>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>>>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>>>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>>>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>>>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>>>> preferred).
>>>>
>>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>>>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>>>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>>
>>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>>>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>>>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>>>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>>>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> --John
>>>>
>>>> John E. Simmons
>>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>>> Museologica
>>>> and
>>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>>> Penn State University
>>>> and
>>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos,
>>>> Lima
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>>>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid
>>>> preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of
>>>> formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to
>>>> 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70%
>>>> ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with
>>>> specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I
>>>> presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or
>>>> leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure
>>>> that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently
>>>> high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have
>>>> thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your
>>>> specimens up in ETOH?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Tonya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> <image004.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>
>>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>>
>>>> Postanschrift:
>>>>
>>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>>
>>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>>
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>>
>>>> postal address:
>>>>
>>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>>
>>>> Visit our section at:
>>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>>> California Botanic Garden
>>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 17:45:57 +0100
From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
Cc: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID: <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B at btinternet.com<mailto:A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B at btinternet.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8

That?s true John,

You have to understand that anything weights and measures-wise that emanated from England before about 1900 was bound to be complicated!

With all good wishes, Simon



> On 7 May 2021, at 17:21, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for catching it:  Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is, so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.
>
> The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the concentration of the alcohol.
>
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
> The reference for the book is:
> Simmons, John E. 2014. Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference. Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher, and other sellers.
>
> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in flowers).
>
> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol content than rum, actually work better).
>
> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in the process).
>
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>
> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH. He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>> wrote:
> Dear Mare,
>
> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>
>
> <PastedGraphic-2.tiff><MA logo.jpg>
>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>
>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>
>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> ~Mare
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>> wrote:
>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>
>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a
  higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>>
>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>
>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>>
>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>
>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>
>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>>
>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The
initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik ?hlander
>>
>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>
>>
>>
>> ZOO
>>
>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>
>> PO Box 50007
>>
>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>
>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>
>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>>
>>
>>
>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>
>>
>>
>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <image001.png>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>
>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>
>>
>>
>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>
>>
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <image002.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Tonya,
>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>>
>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>
>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Tonya
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
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>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> <image004.png>
>>
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> Postanschrift:
>>
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>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
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>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 M?nchen
>>
>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> postal address:
>>
>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>
>> Visit our section at:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 19:18:57 +0200
From: Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de<mailto:neumann at snsb.de>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID: <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0 at snsb.de<mailto:df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0 at snsb.de>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Maybe things started to go wrong after the deep trauma Isaac got when he
was hit by this apple? Gradually, and after a rich experience of
applying all sorts of interesting calculations, conversions and
transformations, the English are surfacing on the metric world.

;-)

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 07.05.2021 um 18:45 schrieb Simon Moore:
> That?s true John,
>
> You have to understand that anything weights and measures-wise that emanated from England before about 1900 was bound to be complicated!
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
>
>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 17:21, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for catching it:  Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is, so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.
>>
>> The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the concentration of the alcohol.
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> The reference for the book is:
>> Simmons, John E. 2014. Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference. Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher, and other sellers.
>>
>> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in flowers).
>>
>> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol content than rum, actually work better).
>>
>> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in the process).
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>
>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH. He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>> wrote:
>> Dear Mare,
>>
>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <PastedGraphic-2.tiff><MA logo.jpg>
>>
>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>
>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> ~Mare
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>> wrote:
>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>
>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in
a higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>>>
>>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>
>>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>>>
>>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>
>>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>
>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>>>
>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The
  initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>
>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ZOO
>>>
>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>
>>> PO Box 50007
>>>
>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>>
>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>
>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>
>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>
>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tonya,
>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>>>
>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>
>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> --John
>>>
>>> John E. Simmons
>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>> Museologica
>>> and
>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>> Penn State University
>>> and
>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Tonya
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <image004.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> Postanschrift:
>>>
>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>
>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> postal address:
>>>
>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>
>>> Visit our section at:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:12:56 -0400
From: Jyotsna Pandey <jpandey at aibs.org<mailto:jpandey at aibs.org>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] AIBS Writing for Impact and Influence Online
    Course: Register Now
Message-ID:
    <CAOuC=0HrCA2ATBS5JsJ7rWR879rKEdDzeVPxqszFYacTDc6rpg at mail.gmail.com<mailto:0HrCA2ATBS5JsJ7rWR879rKEdDzeVPxqszFYacTDc6rpg at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Colleagues,

There is a growing recognition of the importance of providing scientists,
particularly graduate students and post-doctoral fellows, with professional
development training that will expand their career opportunities and
potential for professional success.  The American Institute of Biological
Sciences (AIBS) is pleased to announce a professional development program
that we have developed to help scientists strengthen their written
communication
skills.

This is an important professional development training opportunity.  I hope
you will consider sharing this opportunity with your students, staff, and
colleagues.

Below are more specific details about this online course, including
registration information.

*Writing for Impact and Influence: An AIBS Professional Development Program*

*It is perfectly okay to write garbage?as long as you edit brilliantly. *
-C. J. Cherryh

The American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS) has heard a common
refrain from faculty, scientists, government and private sector executives,
and everyone in between: Scientists are increasingly responsible for public
engagement and business writing, yet they are rarely given the tools they
need to succeed.

AIBS is responding by re-offering our professional development program
designed to help scientists, including graduate students, hone their
written communication skills to increase the impact and influence of their
message. This course complements AIBS?s highly successful Communications
Boot Camp for Scientists, which focuses on oral communication.

Writing for Impact and Influence provides practical instruction and
hands-on exercises that will improve the participant?s general writing
proficiency. The program will provide participants with the skills and
tools needed to compose scientific press releases, blog posts, memoranda,
and more, with a focus on the reader experience. Each product-oriented
session will have an assignment (deadlines are flexible), with feedback
from the instructor. The course is interactive, and participants are
encouraged to ask questions and exchange ideas with the instructor and
other participants. Each session is also recorded and shared with all
participants to accommodate scheduling conflicts.

*Who Should Take the Course?*

  - Individuals interested in furthering their professional development by
  augmenting their writing skills.
  - Graduate students and early-career professionals interested in
  increasing their marketability to employers.
  - Individuals interested in more effectively informing and influencing
  segments of the public, supervisors, policymakers, reporters,
  organizational leaders, and others.

*Sample Topics*

  - Press releases and writing for the media
  - Blogging and social media campaigns
  - Writing for professional audiences
  - One-pagers and writing for stakeholders
  - Action/decision memoranda
  - Synthesis

*Course Structure*
The course consists of six 90-minute online modules conducted live and
subsequently archived online for participant review. Modules are spaced at
weekly intervals to allow time for assignment completion. Live attendance
is recommended but not required, and the instructor can be contacted by
email at any time during the course.

*Assignments*
A writing assignment will be given in each of the first five courses.
Students will receive timely feedback on their assignments.

*Schedule*
The course will begin on Thursday, 1 July 2021. The subsequent course
sessions will be held weekly on Thursdays, through 5 August. All live
courses will begin at 2:00 p.m. Eastern time. Recorded programs will be
available to participants after the live session.

*Registration*
Space is limited and the course will be filled on a first-come,
first-served basis. Registration is required. To register for the course,
go to http://io.aibs.org/writing

For questions regarding the course please contact James Verdier at
jverdier at aibs.org.<mailto:jverdier at aibs.org.>

Sincerely,
Jyotsna
___________________
Jyotsna Pandey, Ph.D.
Director of Public Policy, American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS)
950 Herndon Parkway Suite 450
Herndon, VA 20170
Phone: 202-628-1500 x 225
AIBS website: www.aibs.org
Follow AIBS on Twitter! @AIBSbiology <https://twitter.com/aibsbiology>

--
This message is confidential and should only be read by its intended
recipients.?
If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and
delete all copies.
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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:36:40 -0500
From: Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID:
    <CA+Wdk7m_djb2WYgHRxmLnsaGGcfXv81GM6f+G0jOwFy9xe=g1g at mail.gmail.com<mailto:g1g at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi there!
Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later
dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure
I want to bring that into a classroom.  Any suggestions?

--
Gretchen Meier (*she/her/hers*)
Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
University of Minnesota Duluth
gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
218.726.6542

*Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer *
'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying back'
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 21:07:11 +0000
From: "Bentley, Andrew Charles" <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>>
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC opening mixer
Message-ID: <2C40737A-5902-4FFF-84CD-91E8912F1199 at ku.edu<mailto:2C40737A-5902-4FFF-84CD-91E8912F1199 at ku.edu>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi all

There appears to be an issue with the link to the SPNHC mixer on the AIC website.  If you are trying to join us go here:  https://www.kumospace.com/spnhc2021

Andy

    A  :                A  :              A  :
}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                  V                  V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu><mailto:abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>>
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>

    A  :                A  :                A  :
}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                  V                  V

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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 12:27:21 +0100
From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
To: Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID: <D26CCE6C-9073-4815-9714-B1E69BC50B38 at btinternet.com<mailto:D26CCE6C-9073-4815-9714-B1E69BC50B38 at btinternet.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Gretchen
This is a tricky one as preservation of fugitive pigments that flowers contain is a bit of a biochemical mixture.  Someone may have experience of this but the slightly oily texture of vodka might be good as a short term preservative. Adding some Bitrex, denatonium benzoate, should discourage anyone sampling! Or use tubes with tight closures?

With all good wishes, Simon
Simon Moore MiSct, FLS, RRScI, ACR,
Conservator of natural sciences
Sent from my iPad

> On 7 May 2021, at 21:36, Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>> wrote:
>
> Hi there!
> Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure I want to bring that into a classroom.  Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Gretchen Meier (she/her/hers)
> Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
> University of Minnesota Duluth
> gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
> 218.726.6542
>
> Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer
> 'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying back'
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:21:18 +0000
From: Nikolaj Scharff <nscharff at snm.ku.dk<mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk>>
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Head of Conservation Unit at the Natural History
    Museum of Denmark (NHMD)
Message-ID: <955e7537e7fc49ca8e5030a8252397bb at snm.ku.dk<mailto:955e7537e7fc49ca8e5030a8252397bb at snm.ku.dk>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The Natural History Museum of Denmark (NHMD) is seeking an experienced natural history conservator to establish and manage a Conservation Unit which is to be established at the NHMD.

In the coming years, the primary focus of the Conservation Unit will be to conserve, prepare and install objects for the new permanent galleries which are currently being developed in connection with the build of a new national Natural History Museum in the midst of Copenhagen. Currently, seven exhibition core groups are developing the content of the new permanent galleries, which are planned to open to the public in October 2024 (https://nyt.snm.ku.dk/english/).

An exciting opportunity to be part of the new museum project. Check the job announcement below!

https://candidate.hr-manager.net/ApplicationInit.aspx/?cid=1307&departmentId=19220&ProjectId=154054&MediaId=5&SkipAdvertisement=false

Best wishes
Nikolaj Scharff

----------------------------------------------------------
Nikolaj Scharff, PhD
Deputy Museum Director
Professor, Head of Collections & Research

Natural History Museum of Denmark
Zoological Museum, University of Copenhagen
Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 Copenhagen
DENMARK

E-mail: nscharff at snm.ku.dk<mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk><mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk<mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk>>
Webpage: http://snm.ku.dk/people/nscharff
----------------------------------------------------------




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:10:51 -0400
From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
To: Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID:
    <CAF7GCDbrLDSpFEYuRA5Hi1bg5J3oPOppJj=29_ijOokGq84sUw at mail.gmail.com<mailto:29_ijOokGq84sUw at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Gretchen,

I was hoping that a botanist might respond on the list with a
recommendation for you (botany is not my specialty). I can tell you that
the original Kew mixture was 53 percent industrial methylated spirits (IMS,
which is ethyl alcohol containing 9 percent water and 2?4 percent
methanol), 37 percent water, 5 percent formalin (?dilute formaldehyde?),
and 5 percent glycerol (Forman and Bridson 1989).



A note in the second edition of *The Herbarium Handbook* (1992) stated that
due to controls on hazardous chemicals, the original formula at Kew had
been withdrawn and replaced by a mixture of ?70% alcohol (ethanol, or
ethanol + trace of methanol), 29% water and 1% glycerol. If using 90%
strength Industrial Methylated Spirit (IMS) the mixture is 78% IMS, 21%
water and 1% glycerol. With different strengths of IMS the proportions must
be adjusted accordingly? (Forman and Bridson 1989, 210).



In the third edition (Bridson and Forman 1998) the Kew mixture recipe was
ten parts IMS, one part formalin, one part glycerol, and eight parts water.


The Kew mixture was supposed to help preserve the color in plants. If your
concern is just to preserve flowers sufficiently for them to be dissected,
you might try 70% ETOH, with no other additions. If the specimens are not
intended to be saved as museum specimens, you could use denatured 70% ETOH,
which is considerably less expensive.


Hope this helps.


--John


John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:37 PM Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>> wrote:

> Hi there!
> Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later
> dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure
> I want to bring that into a classroom.  Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Gretchen Meier (*she/her/hers*)
> Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
> University of Minnesota Duluth
> gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
> 218.726.6542
>
> *Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer *
> 'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying
> back'
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 22:35:01 +0200
From: Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de<mailto:neumann at snsb.de>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID: <4c0225cc-fd76-f642-f9d6-5e3ee84225a8 at snsb.de<mailto:4c0225cc-fd76-f642-f9d6-5e3ee84225a8 at snsb.de>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

... it might be worth adding that some denaturants as some ketones are
also used as component in chromatography and extract pigments quite well
(not all, put some). Natural colours can be caused by quite different
effects and sources, e.g., pigments, unsaturated [metal] ions as key
element in chelating agents, optical refraction on crystals embedded in
tissues, etc..

Often, the effect of visual colour we see in the specimens we collect is
caused by electron excitation in biomolecules, which cause changes in
the bonding or chemistry of respective molecules. Most of our fixatives
and storage fluids tend to be highly polar, and through polarisation or
depolarisation of respective biomolecules, colours usually fade - cf.
colour reaction in many indicators we use.

There are few natural pigments that are stable, but admittedly few. And
I would always be careful with bright coloured, historic teaching
specimens prepared around 1900 ... As old bold bright paints, the
ingredient are rarely healthy (and usually containing heavy metals such
as cadmium, chrome, lead, etc.)

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 10.05.2021 um 20:10 schrieb John E Simmons:
> Gretchen,
>
> I was hoping that a botanist might respond on the list with a
> recommendation for you (botany is not my specialty). I can tell you
> that the original Kew mixture was 53 percent industrial methylated
> spirits (IMS, which is ethyl alcohol containing 9 percent water and
> 2?4 percent methanol), 37 percent water, 5 percent formalin (?dilute
> formaldehyde?), and 5 percent glycerol (Forman and Bridson 1989).
>
> A note in the second edition of /The Herbarium Handbook/ (1992) stated
> that due to controls on hazardous chemicals, the original formula at
> Kew had been withdrawn and replaced by a mixture of ?70% alcohol
> (ethanol, or ethanol + trace of methanol), 29% water and 1% glycerol.
> If using 90% strength Industrial Methylated Spirit (IMS) the mixture
> is 78% IMS, 21% water and 1% glycerol. With different strengths of IMS
> the proportions must be adjusted accordingly? (Forman and Bridson
> 1989, 210).
>
> In the third edition (Bridson and Forman 1998) the Kew mixture recipe
> was ten parts IMS, one part formalin, one part glycerol, and eight
> parts water.
>
>
> The Kew mixture was supposed to help preserve the color in plants. If
> your concern is just to preserve flowers sufficiently for them to be
> dissected, you might try 70% ETOH, with no other additions. If the
> specimens are not intended to be saved as museum specimens, you could
> use denatured 70% ETOH, which is considerably less expensive.
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> --John
>
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> /and/
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> /and/
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:37 PM Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
> <mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>> wrote:
>
>    Hi there!
>    Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers
>    for later dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about
>    40%) but I'm not sure I want to bring that into a classroom.? Any
>    suggestions?
>
>    --
>    Gretchen Meier (/she/her/hers/)
>    Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
>    University of Minnesota Duluth
>    gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu> <mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>
>    218.726.6542
>
>    /Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer /
>    'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come
>    hurrying back'
>
>
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    Nhcoll-l mailing list
>    Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
>    https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>    <https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l>
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>    Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>    mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>    natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>    society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> <http://www.spnhc.org> for
>    membership information.
>    Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 19:27:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "membership at spnhc.org<mailto:membership at spnhc.org>" <membership at spnhc.org<mailto:membership at spnhc.org>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC Education DemoCamp 2021
Message-ID: <1620775636.256320094 at apps.rackspace.com<mailto:1620775636.256320094 at apps.rackspace.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"






The Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections Education Sessional Committee is hosting a virtual [ Natural History Collection Education DemoCamp
]( https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/ <https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/%20> )The goal is to share, discover, and discuss educational materials that have a framework in natural history. This is building upon our previous iterations of the 'education share fair' that were hosted at the annual meeting.


Where: Zoom, of course!

When: 28th and 29th of June, the amount of time blocks will be dependent on the number of presenters.

Cost: Free!


[ Presenter registration ]( https://docs.google.com/forms/u/1/d/e/1FAIpQLSc-wvV0pxDutboRlywLETIICxEUOOFkJOAd7eAlms5lIdtSqQ/viewform <https://docs.google.com/forms/u/1/d/e/1FAIpQLSc-wvV0pxDutboRlywLETIICxEUOOFkJOAd7eAlms5lIdtSqQ/viewform%20> ) is open until June 6th and[  general attendee registration ]( https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZItcuqtqjMsG9GhIqNsWpIaNf7ilXh-gVeF <https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZItcuqtqjMsG9GhIqNsWpIaNf7ilXh-gVeF%20> ) will be open up until the event.Please see the [ website  ]( https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/ <https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/%20> )for additional details and reach out to us with any questions: [ educationdemocamp at gmail.com<mailto:educationdemocamp at gmail.com> ]( mailto:educationdemocamp at gmail.com<mailto:educationdemocamp at gmail.com> )



Anna Monfils & Molly Philips, Committee Co-Chairs
Jen Bauer & Liz Leith, Committee Co-Secretary
Julie Robinson, Jessa Watters, & Kari Harris, Committee Members
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 04:35:10 +0000
From: "Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)" <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
Message-ID:
    <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529 at ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com<mailto:ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529 at ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello all,

I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or feedback would be very appreciated!

Cheers,

Tonya

---------------------------------------------------------
Dr Tonya Haff
Collection Manager
Australian National Wildlife Collection
National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO
Canberra, Australia
Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)
(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)

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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


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End of Nhcoll-l Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
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From Tonya.Haff at csiro.au  Wed May 12 18:52:16 2021
From: Tonya.Haff at csiro.au (Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace))
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 22:52:16 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
In-Reply-To: <SA2PR08MB6540D9D4A6094181568742EF86529@SA2PR08MB6540.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR02MB4625F82AE7D35AE7C3C8C48CB8529@BL0PR02MB4625.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <SA2PR08MB6540D9D4A6094181568742EF86529@SA2PR08MB6540.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MEAPR01MB2678334D221F5F3D477E78BCEE529@MEAPR01MB2678.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks everyone for your responses to this question. It's an interesting point about the potential for some of the writing on the eggs to be water soluble. In such a case is something like anoxia or high CO2 not preferable to freezing? And yes I guess I do know that the insides of eggs can be delicious to things like carpet beetle, and indeed I have seen some old evidence of such in our collection. We have 20k+ clutches going on 40k, and we are going to move to a new building in a few years. In light of that I would like the most practical solution that minimises risk to the egg collection but still ensures we aren't accidentally bringing a pest problem with us. But it sounds like the consensus is that freezing would be ok, so long as we make sure everything is well sealed in plastic first?

As a follow on to this, are there any other types of collections (other than slides and fluids) that people absolutely don't freeze?

Thanks!

Tonya

From: Thomas Labedz <tlabedz1 at unl.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2021 10:58 PM
To: Rogers, Steve <RogersS at CarnegieMNH.Org>; Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: RE: freezing blown eggs

Tonya
Agreeing with Stephen I've seen insects in egg collections. I agree strongly with freezing in a plastic container such that condensation does not occur directly on the egg when removed from freezer. While having no direct evidence I suspect that some inks used for curatorial markings on eggs might be water soluble or be poorly bound to the egg surface and condensation poses a risk of information loss.
Thomas

Thomas E. Labedz (Mr.), Collections Manager
Division of Zoology and Division of Botany
University of Nebraska State Museum
Morrill Hall
645 North 14th Street
Lincoln, NE 68588-0338


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Rogers, Steve
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 6:13 AM
To: Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs

Non-NU Email
________________________________
Greetings Tonya,

The entire inside lining of the egg is certainly susceptible to being eaten. I blew a series of eggs once and did not put them in my screened in drying cabinet. I ended up getting a few phorid flies find their way through the holes, breeding and multiplying. I have also seen various small beetles inside older eggs in the collection within the genus Anthrenus. The cotton surrounding the egg set showing past infestations.

I would recommend freezing them like you would other dry specimens, inside plastic so no condensation on the specimens happens after bringing them up to room temperature.

Stephen P. Rogers (Mr.)
Collection Manager of Section of Birds
Carnegie Museum of Natural History
4400 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh PA 15213-4080
Phone: 412-622-3255
Email: rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org<mailto:rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org>
***************************************************
The views, opinions, and judgments expressed in this message
are solely those of the author. The message contents have not
been reviewed or approved by Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
***************************************************

________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 12:35 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs


Hello all,



I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or feedback would be very appreciated!



Cheers,



Tonya



---------------------------------------------------------

Dr Tonya Haff

Collection Manager

Australian National Wildlife Collection

National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO

Canberra, Australia

Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)

(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)





The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
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From sergio.montagud at gmail.com  Thu May 13 04:58:46 2021
From: sergio.montagud at gmail.com (Sergio Montagud)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 10:58:46 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW:  Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <CC5E1FA8-D092-4B8E-904C-2195BC816244@gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>
 <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0@snsb.de>
 <CC5E1FA8-D092-4B8E-904C-2195BC816244@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E816CC8D-4AC8-4B65-960D-C98E24B116F2@gmail.com>

I take advantage of this interesting conversation to ask about properties to preserve DNA of commercial ethanol (96 %) used for sanitary use. I have heard different  opinions. A lot of them says that the component used in this ethanol to make it undrinkable could affect the DNA stabilization. Other people employ it to preserve the samples and seems not to have problems about DNA extractions. After years of experiences? Does someone knows if there is any work or article that definitively concludes on this?

 

Sergio

--

********************************

Sergio Montagud Alario

Museu [UV] Hist?ria Natural

Universitat de Val?ncia

e-mail: sergio.montagud at uv.es

********************************

 

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From Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee  Thu May 13 05:00:56 2021
From: Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee (Lennart Lennuk)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 09:00:56 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <E816CC8D-4AC8-4B65-960D-C98E24B116F2@gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>
 <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0@snsb.de>
 <CC5E1FA8-D092-4B8E-904C-2195BC816244@gmail.com>
 <E816CC8D-4AC8-4B65-960D-C98E24B116F2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475d69a1bd7141bf9c774f75e309195a@loodusmuuseum.ee>

Are you talking about methanol?

From: Nhcoll-l [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Sergio Montagud
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 11:59 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates

I take advantage of this interesting conversation to ask about properties to preserve DNA of commercial ethanol (96 %) used for sanitary use. I have heard different  opinions. A lot of them says that the component used in this ethanol to make it undrinkable could affect the DNA stabilization. Other people employ it to preserve the samples and seems not to have problems about DNA extractions. After years of experiences? Does someone knows if there is any work or article that definitively concludes on this?

Sergio
--
********************************
Sergio Montagud Alario
Museu [UV] Hist?ria Natural
Universitat de Val?ncia
e-mail: sergio.montagud at uv.es<mailto:sergio.montagud at uv.es>
********************************

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From sergio.montagud at gmail.com  Thu May 13 05:06:54 2021
From: sergio.montagud at gmail.com (Sergio Montagud)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 11:06:54 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <475d69a1bd7141bf9c774f75e309195a@loodusmuuseum.ee>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>
 <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0@snsb.de>
 <CC5E1FA8-D092-4B8E-904C-2195BC816244@gmail.com>
 <E816CC8D-4AC8-4B65-960D-C98E24B116F2@gmail.com>
 <475d69a1bd7141bf9c774f75e309195a@loodusmuuseum.ee>
Message-ID: <58B70818-F883-4A28-BF4F-C08A31EE38C2@gmail.com>

No, I?m referring to ethanol or ethyl alcohol.

Sergio

 

From: Lennart Lennuk <Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee>
Date: Thursday, 13 May 2021 at 11:00
To: Sergio Montagud <sergio.montagud at gmail.com>, "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates

 

Are you talking about methanol?

 

From: Nhcoll-l [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Sergio Montagud
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 11:59 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates

 

I take advantage of this interesting conversation to ask about properties to preserve DNA of commercial ethanol (96 %) used for sanitary use. I have heard different  opinions. A lot of them says that the component used in this ethanol to make it undrinkable could affect the DNA stabilization. Other people employ it to preserve the samples and seems not to have problems about DNA extractions. After years of experiences? Does someone knows if there is any work or article that definitively concludes on this?

 

Sergio

--

********************************

Sergio Montagud Alario

Museu [UV] Hist?ria Natural

Universitat de Val?ncia

e-mail: sergio.montagud at uv.es

********************************

 

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From A.J.van_Dam at lumc.nl  Thu May 13 05:25:56 2021
From: A.J.van_Dam at lumc.nl (A.J.van_Dam at lumc.nl)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 09:25:56 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Nhcoll-l Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <4eb6ad64e0084d9d8e3bd9bdd2d7967a@loodusmuuseum.ee>
References: <mailman.2061.1620794234.1784.nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu>
 <12654403.1900686.1620838462022@mail.yahoo.com>,
 <4eb6ad64e0084d9d8e3bd9bdd2d7967a@loodusmuuseum.ee>
Message-ID: <8f474750c3da4ae0b6c56bb435bca96f@lumc.nl>

Dear Lennart,

With regard to stability of secondary alcohols, in contact with air they are readily oxidized into ketones and highly reactive peroxides. Seem therefore less suitable for DNA preservation when compared to primary alcohols like ethanol.

Kind regards, Dries

Andries J. van Dam | conservator

Museum of Anatomy | Leiden University Medical Center | Building 3 (V3-32)
P.O.Box 9600 | 2300 RC Leiden | The Netherlands
Visiting address: Hippocratespad 21 | Tel: +31 (0)71 52 68356 | E-mail: A.J.van_Dam at lumc.nl<https://mail.lumc.nl/owa/redir.aspx?C=O7wgy__4qEq-bCzDQhMP7IpMG33lsdEIUTcpXTatWwljNFWdpbtnBKj-HeYnbumJrkd3hILExAk.&URL=mailto%3aA.J.van_Dam%40lumc.nl>

Scientific associate | Natural History Museum London | http://www.nhm.ac.uk<https://mail.lumc.nl/owa/redir.aspx?C=O7wgy__4qEq-bCzDQhMP7IpMG33lsdEIUTcpXTatWwljNFWdpbtnBKj-HeYnbumJrkd3hILExAk.&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nhm.ac.uk%2f>
________________________________
Van: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> namens Lennart Lennuk <Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee>
Verzonden: woensdag 12 mei 2021 20:09:57
Aan: Camm Swift; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Onderwerp: [MOGELIJK SPAM ! *******] Re: [Nhcoll-l] Nhcoll-l Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4

Hi!

Is there a good reference showing isopropyl not suitable for DNA conservation?

Best regards
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
(+372) 6603404, 56569916



From: Nhcoll-l [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Camm Swift
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 7:54 PM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Nhcoll-l Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4

Very interesting and comprehensive accounts of alcohol use.  Perhaps covered in Simmon's book, but in the USA, 1950s-1970s at least, considerable use of isopropyl alcohol occurred with fish collections often having jars of both and intentional and inadvertent mixing and/or replacement of one with the other.  Usually dispensing with the isopropyl and replacing with ethanol.  Even collections sticking with ethanol could be faced with taking on orphaned collections in ispropyl so it is something to be dealt with.  I believe since the adverse effects on histology and DNA by isopropyl came to light few if any collections still use isopropyl but it is a strong historical presence in some collections even if just as a residual.  Camm Swift

On Wednesday, May 12, 2021, 12:37:23 AM EDT, nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-request at mailman.yale.edu>> wrote:


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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Simon Moore)
  2. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Mare Nazaire)
  3. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (John E Simmons)
  4. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Mare Nazaire)
  5. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (John E Simmons)
  6. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Simon Moore)
  7. Re: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
      (Dirk Neumann)
  8. AIBS Writing for Impact and Influence Online Course: Register
      Now (Jyotsna Pandey)
  9. Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (Gretchen Meier)
  10. SPNHC opening mixer (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
  11. Re: Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (Simon Moore)
  12. Head of Conservation Unit at the Natural History Museum of
      Denmark (NHMD) (Nikolaj Scharff)
  13. Re: Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (John E Simmons)
  14. Re: Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers (Dirk Neumann)
  15. SPNHC Education DemoCamp 2021 (membership at spnhc.org<mailto:membership at spnhc.org>)
  16. freezing blown eggs (Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace))


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:18:16 +0100
From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
To: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>, Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de<mailto:neumann at snsb.de>>
Cc: Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID: <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A at btinternet.com<mailto:945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A at btinternet.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Mare,

I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>




> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>
> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>
> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>
> Thank you,
> ~Mare
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>> wrote:
> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>
>
>
> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>
> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a
higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>
> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>
> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>
> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>
> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>
> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>
> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>
>
>
> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The i
nitial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>
>
>
> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Erik ?hlander
>
> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>
>
>
> ZOO
>
> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>
> PO Box 50007
>
> SE-10405 Stockholm
>
> Sweden
>
> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>
> +46 0 70 225 2716
>
> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>
>
>
> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>
>
>
> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>
>
>
> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>
>
>
> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>
>
>
> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>
>
>
> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>
> Thanks John and Tonya,
>
>
>
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>
>
>
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>
>
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Tonya
>
>
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> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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> --
>
> <image004.png>
>
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> Postanschrift:
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> M?nchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 M?nchen
>
> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> ---------
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> postal address:
>
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
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> Muenchhausenstr. 21
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>
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> --
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 07:55:58 -0700
From: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>
To: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
Cc: Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de<mailto:neumann at snsb.de>>, Erik ?hlander
    <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>, NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID:
    <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w at mail.gmail.com<mailto:cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.

I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
wrote:

> Dear Mare,
>
> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has
> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
> concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>
>
>
>
> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>
> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>
> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material
> preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of
> our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of
> 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their
> concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for
> preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the
> citation for this book?
>
> Thank you,
> ~Mare
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>
> wrote:
> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>
>
>
> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>
> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
> careful
>
> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>
> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
> the surface of the specimen only.
>
> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>
> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
> ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>
> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is
> good.
>
> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>
>
>
> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>
>
>
> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the
> reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Erik ?hlander
>
> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>
>
>
> ZOO
>
> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>
> PO Box 50007
>
> SE-10405 Stockholm
>
> Sweden
>
> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>
> +46 0 70 225 2716
>
> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>
>
>
> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>
>
>
> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed
> to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even
> if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs.
> 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated
> EtOH.
>
>
>
> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>
>
>
> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from
> vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>
>
>
> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects
> before moving them into the collection.
>
>
>
> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>
> Thanks John and Tonya,
>
>
>
> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>
>
>
> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>
>
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
>
>
>
> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Tonya,
> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
> preferred).
>
> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>
> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>
> Hope this helps,
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Tonya
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
>
> <image004.png>
>
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> Postanschrift:
>
> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
> M?nchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 M?nchen
>
> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> ---------
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> postal address:
>
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
> Muenchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>
> Visit our section at:
> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>

--
Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
California Botanic Garden
Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
1500 North College Avenue
Claremont, California 91711
909.625.8767 ext. 268
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 11:43:32 -0400
From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
To: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>
Cc: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID:
    <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The reference for the book is:
Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
and other sellers.

The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
(thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
flowers).

The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
content than rum, actually work better).

Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
the process).

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:

> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>
> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mare,
>>
>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
>> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has
>> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
>> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
>> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
>> concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>
>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>
>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>> provide the citation for this book?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> ~Mare
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>
>> wrote:
>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>
>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>> careful
>>
>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>
>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>
>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>
>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%)
>> ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>
>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>> is good.
>>
>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
>> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
>> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the
>> reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik ?hlander
>>
>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>
>>
>>
>> ZOO
>>
>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>
>> PO Box 50007
>>
>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>
>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>
>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>> concentrated EtOH.
>>
>>
>>
>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>
>>
>>
>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <image001.png>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>
>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>
>>
>>
>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>
>>
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <image002.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Tonya,
>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>> preferred).
>>
>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>
>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation.
>> In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin
>> fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60%
>> and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I
>> know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen
>> dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the
>> final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water
>> from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol
>> concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me
>> this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or
>> if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Tonya
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> <image004.png>
>>
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> Postanschrift:
>>
>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 M?nchen
>>
>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> postal address:
>>
>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>
>> Visit our section at:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 09:02:29 -0700
From: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
Cc: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID:
    <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
wrote:

> The reference for the book is:
> Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
> Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
> and other sellers.
>
> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
> (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
> research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
> mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
> flowers).
>
> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
> history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
> fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
> concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
> beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
> a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
> inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
> content than rum, actually work better).
>
> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
> improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
> an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
> after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
> on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
> chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
> making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
> the process).
>
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> *and*
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> *and*
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>
>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
>> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
>> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
>> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
>> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Mare,
>>>
>>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred
>>> to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has
>>> pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between
>>> institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make
>>> the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower
>>> concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>
>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>>> provide the citation for this book?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> ~Mare
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>
>>> wrote:
>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>
>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>>> careful
>>>
>>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>
>>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>>
>>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>
>>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh
>>> (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>
>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>>> is good.
>>>
>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an
>>> alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing
>>> of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>>> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
>>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With
>>> the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>
>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ZOO
>>>
>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>
>>> PO Box 50007
>>>
>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>>
>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>
>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>
>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>>> concentrated EtOH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>
>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>>> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>>> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
>>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tonya,
>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>>> preferred).
>>>
>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>
>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> --John
>>>
>>> John E. Simmons
>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>> Museologica
>>> and
>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>> Penn State University
>>> and
>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid
>>> preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of
>>> formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to
>>> 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70%
>>> ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with
>>> specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I
>>> presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or
>>> leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure
>>> that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently
>>> high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have
>>> thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your
>>> specimens up in ETOH?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Tonya
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <image004.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> Postanschrift:
>>>
>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>
>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> postal address:
>>>
>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>
>>> Visit our section at:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>

--
Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
California Botanic Garden
Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
1500 North College Avenue
Claremont, California 91711
909.625.8767 ext. 268
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 12:21:02 -0400
From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
To: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>
Cc: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID:
    <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA at mail.gmail.com<mailto:2NkzMfoneQA at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for
catching it:  Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is,
so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.

The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test
the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a
concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit
the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of
alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the
concentration of the alcohol.

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>> The reference for the book is:
>> Simmons, John E. 2014. *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference*.
>> Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher,
>> and other sellers.
>>
>> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation
>> (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished
>> research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange
>> mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in
>> flowers).
>>
>> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating
>> history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a
>> fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol
>> concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used
>> beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen
>> a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was
>> inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol
>> content than rum, actually work better).
>>
>> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to
>> improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had
>> an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol
>> after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending
>> on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other
>> chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just
>> making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in
>> the process).
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> *and*
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> *and*
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>>
>>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the
>>> specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH.
>>> He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work
>>> and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other
>>> residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Mare,
>>>>
>>>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then
>>>> transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.
>>>> As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly
>>>> between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which
>>>> can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a
>>>> lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure
>>>> differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>>>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>>>
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>>
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>>
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>>
>>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant
>>>> material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that
>>>> some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a
>>>> concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is
>>>> or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John
>>>> Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also
>>>> provide the citation for this book?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> ~Mare
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>>
>>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in
>>>> Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the
>>>> previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to
>>>> invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between
>>>> 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid
>>>> Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate
>>>> for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in
>>>> formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or
>>>> more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed
>>>> all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed
>>>> topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage
>>>> with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took
>>>> more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every
>>>> change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a higher concentration ethanol
>>>> since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of
>>>> the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small
>>>> amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid.
>>>> Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are
>>>> careful
>>>>
>>>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>>
>>>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from
>>>> the surface of the specimen only.
>>>>
>>>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>>
>>>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh
>>>> (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>>
>>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that
>>>> is good.
>>>>
>>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at
>>>> an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the
>>>> removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in
>>>> 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used
>>>> for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to
>>>> north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world
>>>> war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use
>>>> a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in
>>>> ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our
>>>> collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are
>>>> from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before
>>>> 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even
>>>> possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually
>>>> not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too
>>>> much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know
>>>> might be of general interest. The initial fixation and preservation was in
>>>> distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and
>>>> probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other
>>>> fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of
>>>> king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the
>>>> Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but
>>>> immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of
>>>> the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this
>>>> collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid
>>>> was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored
>>>> cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen
>>>> volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the
>>>> major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole
>>>> collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With
>>>> the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden
>>>> disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years
>>>> would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>>
>>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ZOO
>>>>
>>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>>
>>>> PO Box 50007
>>>>
>>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>>
>>>> Sweden
>>>>
>>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>>
>>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>>
>>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon
>>>> pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates
>>>> this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80
>>>> vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high
>>>> concentrated EtOH.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of
>>>> tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the
>>>> images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall
>>>> whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of
>>>> the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll
>>>> released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside
>>>> from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps
>>>> because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or
>>>> weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates
>>>> specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices,
>>>> bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap
>>>> samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the
>>>> container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier,
>>>> it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap
>>>> containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted
>>>> effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>>
>>>> Dirk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final
>>>> concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I
>>>> worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in
>>>> 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the
>>>> staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net
>>>> result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to
>>>> embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile
>>>> specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process
>>>> which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>>
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>>
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tonya,
>>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for
>>>> staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I
>>>> cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a
>>>> preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is
>>>> alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing
>>>> them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is
>>>> a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for
>>>> most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be
>>>> preferred).
>>>>
>>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against
>>>> evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can
>>>> be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>>
>>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and
>>>> managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check
>>>> Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015).
>>>> The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will
>>>> work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> --John
>>>>
>>>> John E. Simmons
>>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>>> Museologica
>>>> and
>>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>>> Penn State University
>>>> and
>>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos,
>>>> Lima
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
>>>> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid
>>>> preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of
>>>> formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to
>>>> 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70%
>>>> ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with
>>>> specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I
>>>> presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or
>>>> leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure
>>>> that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently
>>>> high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have
>>>> thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your
>>>> specimens up in ETOH?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Tonya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> <image004.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>
>>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>>
>>>> Postanschrift:
>>>>
>>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>>
>>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>>
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>>
>>>> postal address:
>>>>
>>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>>
>>>> Visit our section at:
>>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>>> California Botanic Garden
>>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 17:45:57 +0100
From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
Cc: Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>>, NHCOLL-new
    <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID: <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B at btinternet.com<mailto:A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B at btinternet.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8

That?s true John,

You have to understand that anything weights and measures-wise that emanated from England before about 1900 was bound to be complicated!

With all good wishes, Simon



> On 7 May 2021, at 17:21, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for catching it:  Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is, so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.
>
> The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the concentration of the alcohol.
>
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
> The reference for the book is:
> Simmons, John E. 2014. Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference. Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher, and other sellers.
>
> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in flowers).
>
> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol content than rum, actually work better).
>
> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in the process).
>
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>
> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH. He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>> wrote:
> Dear Mare,
>
> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>
>
> <PastedGraphic-2.tiff><MA logo.jpg>
>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>
>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>
>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> ~Mare
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>> wrote:
>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>
>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in a
  higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>>
>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>
>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>>
>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>
>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>
>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>>
>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The
initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik ?hlander
>>
>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>
>>
>>
>> ZOO
>>
>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>
>> PO Box 50007
>>
>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>
>> Sweden
>>
>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>
>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>
>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>>
>>
>>
>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>
>>
>>
>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <image001.png>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>
>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>
>>
>>
>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>
>>
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <image002.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Tonya,
>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>>
>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>
>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Tonya
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> <image004.png>
>>
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> Postanschrift:
>>
>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 M?nchen
>>
>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>
>> postal address:
>>
>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>
>> Visit our section at:
>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
> California Botanic Garden
> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
> 1500 North College Avenue
> Claremont, California 91711
> 909.625.8767 ext. 268



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 19:18:57 +0200
From: Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de<mailto:neumann at snsb.de>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial
    vertebrates
Message-ID: <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0 at snsb.de<mailto:df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0 at snsb.de>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Maybe things started to go wrong after the deep trauma Isaac got when he
was hit by this apple? Gradually, and after a rich experience of
applying all sorts of interesting calculations, conversions and
transformations, the English are surfacing on the metric world.

;-)

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 07.05.2021 um 18:45 schrieb Simon Moore:
> That?s true John,
>
> You have to understand that anything weights and measures-wise that emanated from England before about 1900 was bound to be complicated!
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
>
>
>> On 7 May 2021, at 17:21, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Oops, I made a mistake in my previous response. Thanks to Peter Rauch for catching it:  Proof is actually about TWICE what the ETOH concentration is, so a 40 proof liquor would be about 20% alcohol.
>>
>> The concept of proof goes back to 1705 when some measure was needed to test the concentration of alcohol. In England, 100 proof was defined as a concentration of 11 parts alcohol and 10 parts water, which would permit the ignition of gunpowder. The modern definition of proof is a mixture of alcohol and water with a specific gravity of 0.91984, or about twice the concentration of the alcohol.
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>> Thank you for the citation and for all of this helpful information John!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:43 AM John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> The reference for the book is:
>> Simmons, John E. 2014. Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference. Rowman & Littlefield. It is available from Amazon.com, from the publisher, and other sellers.
>>
>> The book includes a discussion (pp 54-56) of botanical fluid preservation (thanks to Ann Pinzl for generously sharing with me her as yet unpublished research on this subject). Botanists have tended to use some strange mixtures, trying to preserve color in their specimens (particularly in flowers).
>>
>> The use of beverage alcohol as a preservative has a long and fascinating history. Although most beverage alcohol is below 70%, it usually does a fairly good job of preservation (proof is approximately half the alcohol concentration, so a 20 proof spirit is about 40% ETOH). I have used beverage alcohol to preserve when nothing else was available, and have seen a lot of specimens preserved in it. Rum was commonly used because it was inexpensive (things such as brandy, which usually has a higher alcohol content than rum, actually work better).
>>
>> Over the history of fluid preservation, there have been many attempts to improve the preservative properties of alcohol. In the days before we had an easy means to check the concentration, it was common to use alcohol after a second distillation, which usually meant around 60-65% (depending on the source), so such things as arsenic, mercuric chloride, and other chemicals were commonly added to "strengthen" it (they were really just making it a more effective biocide, but usually screwing up the specimen in the process).
>>
>> --John
>>
>> John E. Simmons
>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>> Museologica
>> and
>> Associate Curator of Collections
>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>> Penn State University
>> and
>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:56 AM Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>> Thank you Simon and Dirk for your feedback on this.
>>
>> I had actually spoken with the botanist who originally prepared the specimens back in the 60's - he noted that they were preserved in 50% EtOH. He also noted that when he had traveled to other countries for field work and EtOH wasn't available he would use rum! So there could be some other residual components in these fluid preserved specimens!
>>
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:18 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>> wrote:
>> Dear Mare,
>>
>> I have always fixed fresh plant material in Kew mix and then transferred to Copenhagen mixture which is similar but minus the formalin.  As Dirk has pointed out, the formulae (proportions) do vary slightly between institutions, some prefer more glycerine in their mixes but which can make the specimens rather translucent which is why others prefer a lower concentration.  There is also the slight problem of osmotic pressure differential and specimens floating until they equilibrate!
>> Make sure that the pH of the solutions is a near to 7.0 as possible.
>>
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>
>>
>> <PastedGraphic-2.tiff><MA logo.jpg>
>>
>>> On 7 May 2021, at 13:53, Mare Nazaire <mnazaire at calbg.org<mailto:mnazaire at calbg.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a very informative and helpful thread - thank you for this!
>>>
>>> I presume that 70% concentration would also be suitable for plant material preserved in spirits? I ask because I've recently discovered that some of our collection of fluid preserved plant material is at a concentration of 50% and I wondered if it is advisable to keep them as is or change their concentration to 70%. Are there recommendations in John Simmon's book for preserving plant specimens in alcohol and could you also provide the citation for this book?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> ~Mare
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 12:48 AM Erik ?hlander <Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:Erik.Ahlander at nrm.se>> wrote:
>>> Dear Tonya, John, Simon, Dirk - well all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also I agree. Since I will soon retire I want to share some experiences:
>>>
>>> When we started to take care of the collection of wet vertebrates in Stockholm in 1975 there was no overlap in time (well 1 week) with the previous staff (the previous curator was employed 1934-1974). So we had to invent the wheel. The initial ambition was to keep a concentration between 70 and 80% ethanol. (We also tested the new suggested conservation fluid Phenoxetol, which after some years showed to be a disaster). To compensate for evaporation, we tried to stick to 80%. New material was fixed in formalin for at least a week, washing in water, 20% ethanol for two days or more, 50% for two days or more, and final storage in 80%. Also we removed all bad jars from the collection ? and a bad jar was a jar that needed topping. Expedition material was sorted and identified etc after this stage with the result that many specimens was changed to 80% once more. It took more than 10 years to realize that 80% was to strong. But also that every change of alcohol, or topping, resulted in
a higher concentration ethanol since the lowering effect of the alcohol concentration through remnants of the previus stage fluid inside the specimens was removed. Also the small amounts of formalin in the specimen was reduced for each change of fluid. Especially for tiny fish we could find obvious shrinking. Today we are careful
>>>
>>> 1.      To keep the specimens in 70% (not more, not less)
>>>
>>> 2.      Not to rinse to much in water. Rather remove the formalin from the surface of the specimen only.
>>>
>>> 3.      Don?t change the fluid if it is not necessary.
>>>
>>> 4.      If you have to remove all fluid, add maybe 80-90% of fresh (70%) ethanol and the rest used ethanol from another specimen.
>>>
>>> All formalin fixed specimens has a small amount of formalin left - that is good.
>>>
>>> Some substances in the specimen dissolve in the alcohol (just look at an alcohol preserved Anguilla?). Every change of alcohol add to the removing of lipids etc - that is bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as we know, formalin was used for the first time at the NRM in 1904, but only occasionally! Still in the 1940s ethanol was commonly used for fixation in the field. When the museum moved from downtown Stockholm to north of the city in 1916, the economy for alcohol was reduced due to world war I (otherwise Sweden was not involved). This led to the invention to use a diluted formalin solution for the exhibition jars (for specimens fixed in ethanol!). The research collection continued to be stored in ethanol. Our collection is old. We estimate that our oldest specimens in ethanol are from the 1720s (from the Seba collection). Still many specimens from before 1758 are in remarkable good condition. In some specimens it is even possible to get small pieces of DNA with ancient DNA technic ? but usually not. This sounds contradicting to some statements above. We don?t know too much about the preservation history of these specimens, but what we know might be of general interest. The
  initial fixation and preservation was in distilled wine (=?spiritus vini?). We don?t know the concentration, and probably it was not pure ethanol, but also contained small amount of other fractions from the wine, more like strong cognac. The Royal collection (of king Adolf Fredrik with many Linnaean types) was donated to the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences in 1801. NRM was founded in 1819, but immediately in practice fused with the Academy. In 1848 the collections of the Academy was formally donated to the Museum. From the 1740s to 1970 this collection of  vertebrates in alcohol was moved four times. Jars and fluid was probably changed twice. But most of the time the collection was stored cool and dark. Glasses and fluids was expensive so the ratio: specimen volume / conservation fluid volume was high up to 1900.  From 1801-1898 the major part seems to have been almost untouched, except that the whole collection was moved 1500 meters in 1829.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was once asked how long a specimen could be stored in alcohol. With the reservation that our old specimens will be stored like today, no sudden disasters etc (and no climate change), I decided that to 2220 = 500 years would be possible, maybe 1000 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Erik ?hlander
>>>
>>> vertebrate zoology and museum history
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ZOO
>>>
>>> Swedish Museum of Natural History
>>>
>>> PO Box 50007
>>>
>>> SE-10405 Stockholm
>>>
>>> Sweden
>>>
>>> +46 0 8 5195 4118
>>>
>>> +46 0 70 225 2716
>>>
>>> erik.ahlander at nrm.se<mailto:erik.ahlander at nrm.se>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fr?n: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> F?r Dirk Neumann
>>> Skickat: den 7 maj 2021 08:36
>>> Till: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> ?mne: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tonya (and John and Simon ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> concur with John and Simon, specimens should be kept in 70%; Simon pointed to the diluting effects and the image below nicely illustrates this: even if you use more steps for transferring specimens (0/20/40/60/80 vs. 20/30/50/70), tissues are still soaked with 60% or less high concentrated EtOH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Depending on size, body mass and number of specimens (i.e. amount of tissue in the jar), the effect can be considerable (see "staining" in the images below; in the left one, body fluids released from these tall whitefish are indicated by the reddish haemoglobin stain at the bottom of the jar, the overall greenish colour in the right comes from chlorophyll released from the guts of these herbivorous distichodus fish).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do the initial filling usually with 73-75% EtOH to reach 70%; aside from vertebrates high EtOH concentrations can be an issue in malaise traps because there the specimens usually are collected over several days or weeks in 96-80% EtOH. As Simon pointed out this quickly dehydrates specimens and weakens the joints holding all the antennae, appendices, bristles of invertebrates. Another issue is that in unsorted malaise trap samples there often is a thick deposit of specimens at the bottom of the container. Because the diluted less high concentrated ethanol is heavier, it layers at the bottom of the jar (cf. whitefish jar). Inside malaise trap containers, this diluted EtOH may get trapped in the thick specimen deposit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Usually, I leave jars for few day to see if there are any unwanted effects before moving them into the collection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope this is useful, with best wishes
>>>
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 07.05.2021 um 00:17 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>
>>> Thanks John and Tonya,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What John says is true about the staging of alcohols and the final concentrations.  80% was what I was advised at the NHM in London when I worked there and by the time larger terrestrial vertebrates ?end up? in 80%, you will often find that with the mix of lower grade alcohols from the staging process, once things have settled down / equilibrated, then the net result is around 70% anyway.  Higher grade alcohols  can lead to embrittlement of certain tissues as well as evaporation issues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have also found the staging process necessary for the more fragile specimens as they undergo changes in Osmotic pressure during this process which can cause syneresis or shrinkage in softer tissues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>
>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>
>>>
>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2021, at 22:50, John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tonya,
>>> Thank you for your kind words about my book. The recommendation for staging up to 80% concentration was by made by my friend Simon Moore, who I cited in that sentence. In general, I do not recommend using 80% ETOH as a preservative for terrestrial vertebrates, but rather 70%. Preservation is alcohol is a trade-off between dehydration of the specimens and providing them suitable protection against biological deterioration. At 70%, ETOH is a very good biocide; below that, not so good, and above 70%, too strong for most specimens (note that there are some instances in which 80% might be preferred).
>>>
>>> I do not recommend using stronger alcohol as a hedge against evaporation--that leads to uneven concentrations of preservatives and can be a real mess to work with in a collection.
>>>
>>> For how-to instructions on preserving, transferring specimens, and managing a fluid preserved collection, you might want to check Herpetological Collecting and Collections Management (3rd edition, 2015). The instructions for preserving and managing fluid preserved animals will work for most other specimens as well as for reptiles and amphibians.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> --John
>>>
>>> John E. Simmons
>>> Writer and Museum Consultant
>>> Museologica
>>> and
>>> Associate Curator of Collections
>>> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
>>> Penn State University
>>> and
>>> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
>>> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 4:05 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am enjoying reading John Simmon's fantastic book on fluid preservation. In it I read one suggestion for stepping specimens up out of formalin fixative into preservation alcohol as follows: from 20% ETOH to 40% to 60% and finally to 80%. We typically place our specimens in 70% ETOH, and I know higher concentrations can cause some problems with specimen dehydration. All our specimens are terrestrial vertebrates. I presume the final 80% provides a buffer against ETOH evaporation or leaching of water from the specimen into the fluid in the jar, to ensure that the alcohol concentration in the preservation fluid stays sufficiently high? But to me this is not quite clear. I wonder if any of you have thoughts on this, or if you would be willing to share how you step your specimens up in ETOH?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Tonya
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <image004.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>>> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> Postanschrift:
>>>
>>> Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
>>> Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
>>> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
>>> M?nchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 M?nchen
>>>
>>> Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>
>>> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
>>> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
>>> neumann(a)snsb.de
>>>
>>> postal address:
>>>
>>> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>>> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>>> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>>> Muenchhausenstr. 21
>>> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>>>
>>> Visit our section at:
>>> http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>>> California Botanic Garden
>>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>>> 1500 North College Avenue
>>> Claremont, California 91711
>>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mare Nazaire, Ph.D.
>> Administrative Curator, Herbarium [RSA-POM]
>> California Botanic Garden
>> Research Assistant Professor, Claremont Graduate University
>> 1500 North College Avenue
>> Claremont, California 91711
>> 909.625.8767 ext. 268
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:12:56 -0400
From: Jyotsna Pandey <jpandey at aibs.org<mailto:jpandey at aibs.org>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] AIBS Writing for Impact and Influence Online
    Course: Register Now
Message-ID:
    <CAOuC=0HrCA2ATBS5JsJ7rWR879rKEdDzeVPxqszFYacTDc6rpg at mail.gmail.com<mailto:0HrCA2ATBS5JsJ7rWR879rKEdDzeVPxqszFYacTDc6rpg at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Colleagues,

There is a growing recognition of the importance of providing scientists,
particularly graduate students and post-doctoral fellows, with professional
development training that will expand their career opportunities and
potential for professional success.  The American Institute of Biological
Sciences (AIBS) is pleased to announce a professional development program
that we have developed to help scientists strengthen their written
communication
skills.

This is an important professional development training opportunity.  I hope
you will consider sharing this opportunity with your students, staff, and
colleagues.

Below are more specific details about this online course, including
registration information.

*Writing for Impact and Influence: An AIBS Professional Development Program*

*It is perfectly okay to write garbage?as long as you edit brilliantly. *
-C. J. Cherryh

The American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS) has heard a common
refrain from faculty, scientists, government and private sector executives,
and everyone in between: Scientists are increasingly responsible for public
engagement and business writing, yet they are rarely given the tools they
need to succeed.

AIBS is responding by re-offering our professional development program
designed to help scientists, including graduate students, hone their
written communication skills to increase the impact and influence of their
message. This course complements AIBS?s highly successful Communications
Boot Camp for Scientists, which focuses on oral communication.

Writing for Impact and Influence provides practical instruction and
hands-on exercises that will improve the participant?s general writing
proficiency. The program will provide participants with the skills and
tools needed to compose scientific press releases, blog posts, memoranda,
and more, with a focus on the reader experience. Each product-oriented
session will have an assignment (deadlines are flexible), with feedback
from the instructor. The course is interactive, and participants are
encouraged to ask questions and exchange ideas with the instructor and
other participants. Each session is also recorded and shared with all
participants to accommodate scheduling conflicts.

*Who Should Take the Course?*

  - Individuals interested in furthering their professional development by
  augmenting their writing skills.
  - Graduate students and early-career professionals interested in
  increasing their marketability to employers.
  - Individuals interested in more effectively informing and influencing
  segments of the public, supervisors, policymakers, reporters,
  organizational leaders, and others.

*Sample Topics*

  - Press releases and writing for the media
  - Blogging and social media campaigns
  - Writing for professional audiences
  - One-pagers and writing for stakeholders
  - Action/decision memoranda
  - Synthesis

*Course Structure*
The course consists of six 90-minute online modules conducted live and
subsequently archived online for participant review. Modules are spaced at
weekly intervals to allow time for assignment completion. Live attendance
is recommended but not required, and the instructor can be contacted by
email at any time during the course.

*Assignments*
A writing assignment will be given in each of the first five courses.
Students will receive timely feedback on their assignments.

*Schedule*
The course will begin on Thursday, 1 July 2021. The subsequent course
sessions will be held weekly on Thursdays, through 5 August. All live
courses will begin at 2:00 p.m. Eastern time. Recorded programs will be
available to participants after the live session.

*Registration*
Space is limited and the course will be filled on a first-come,
first-served basis. Registration is required. To register for the course,
go to http://io.aibs.org/writing

For questions regarding the course please contact James Verdier at
jverdier at aibs.org.<mailto:jverdier at aibs.org.>

Sincerely,
Jyotsna
___________________
Jyotsna Pandey, Ph.D.
Director of Public Policy, American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS)
950 Herndon Parkway Suite 450
Herndon, VA 20170
Phone: 202-628-1500 x 225
AIBS website: www.aibs.org
Follow AIBS on Twitter! @AIBSbiology <https://twitter.com/aibsbiology>

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This message is confidential and should only be read by its intended
recipients.?
If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and
delete all copies.
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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 15:36:40 -0500
From: Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID:
    <CA+Wdk7m_djb2WYgHRxmLnsaGGcfXv81GM6f+G0jOwFy9xe=g1g at mail.gmail.com<mailto:g1g at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi there!
Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later
dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure
I want to bring that into a classroom.  Any suggestions?

--
Gretchen Meier (*she/her/hers*)
Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
University of Minnesota Duluth
gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
218.726.6542

*Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer *
'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying back'
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 7 May 2021 21:07:11 +0000
From: "Bentley, Andrew Charles" <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>>
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC opening mixer
Message-ID: <2C40737A-5902-4FFF-84CD-91E8912F1199 at ku.edu<mailto:2C40737A-5902-4FFF-84CD-91E8912F1199 at ku.edu>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi all

There appears to be an issue with the link to the SPNHC mixer on the AIC website.  If you are trying to join us go here:  https://www.kumospace.com/spnhc2021

Andy

    A  :                A  :              A  :
}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                  V                  V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu><mailto:abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>>
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>

    A  :                A  :                A  :
}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                  V                  V

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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 12:27:21 +0100
From: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
To: Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID: <D26CCE6C-9073-4815-9714-B1E69BC50B38 at btinternet.com<mailto:D26CCE6C-9073-4815-9714-B1E69BC50B38 at btinternet.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Gretchen
This is a tricky one as preservation of fugitive pigments that flowers contain is a bit of a biochemical mixture.  Someone may have experience of this but the slightly oily texture of vodka might be good as a short term preservative. Adding some Bitrex, denatonium benzoate, should discourage anyone sampling! Or use tubes with tight closures?

With all good wishes, Simon
Simon Moore MiSct, FLS, RRScI, ACR,
Conservator of natural sciences
Sent from my iPad

> On 7 May 2021, at 21:36, Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>> wrote:
>
> Hi there!
> Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure I want to bring that into a classroom.  Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Gretchen Meier (she/her/hers)
> Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
> University of Minnesota Duluth
> gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
> 218.726.6542
>
> Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer
> 'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying back'
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:21:18 +0000
From: Nikolaj Scharff <nscharff at snm.ku.dk<mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk>>
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Head of Conservation Unit at the Natural History
    Museum of Denmark (NHMD)
Message-ID: <955e7537e7fc49ca8e5030a8252397bb at snm.ku.dk<mailto:955e7537e7fc49ca8e5030a8252397bb at snm.ku.dk>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The Natural History Museum of Denmark (NHMD) is seeking an experienced natural history conservator to establish and manage a Conservation Unit which is to be established at the NHMD.

In the coming years, the primary focus of the Conservation Unit will be to conserve, prepare and install objects for the new permanent galleries which are currently being developed in connection with the build of a new national Natural History Museum in the midst of Copenhagen. Currently, seven exhibition core groups are developing the content of the new permanent galleries, which are planned to open to the public in October 2024 (https://nyt.snm.ku.dk/english/).

An exciting opportunity to be part of the new museum project. Check the job announcement below!

https://candidate.hr-manager.net/ApplicationInit.aspx/?cid=1307&departmentId=19220&ProjectId=154054&MediaId=5&SkipAdvertisement=false

Best wishes
Nikolaj Scharff

----------------------------------------------------------
Nikolaj Scharff, PhD
Deputy Museum Director
Professor, Head of Collections & Research

Natural History Museum of Denmark
Zoological Museum, University of Copenhagen
Universitetsparken 15, DK-2100 Copenhagen
DENMARK

E-mail: nscharff at snm.ku.dk<mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk><mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk<mailto:nscharff at snm.ku.dk>>
Webpage: http://snm.ku.dk/people/nscharff
----------------------------------------------------------




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:10:51 -0400
From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>
To: Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID:
    <CAF7GCDbrLDSpFEYuRA5Hi1bg5J3oPOppJj=29_ijOokGq84sUw at mail.gmail.com<mailto:29_ijOokGq84sUw at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Gretchen,

I was hoping that a botanist might respond on the list with a
recommendation for you (botany is not my specialty). I can tell you that
the original Kew mixture was 53 percent industrial methylated spirits (IMS,
which is ethyl alcohol containing 9 percent water and 2?4 percent
methanol), 37 percent water, 5 percent formalin (?dilute formaldehyde?),
and 5 percent glycerol (Forman and Bridson 1989).



A note in the second edition of *The Herbarium Handbook* (1992) stated that
due to controls on hazardous chemicals, the original formula at Kew had
been withdrawn and replaced by a mixture of ?70% alcohol (ethanol, or
ethanol + trace of methanol), 29% water and 1% glycerol. If using 90%
strength Industrial Methylated Spirit (IMS) the mixture is 78% IMS, 21%
water and 1% glycerol. With different strengths of IMS the proportions must
be adjusted accordingly? (Forman and Bridson 1989, 210).



In the third edition (Bridson and Forman 1998) the Kew mixture recipe was
ten parts IMS, one part formalin, one part glycerol, and eight parts water.


The Kew mixture was supposed to help preserve the color in plants. If your
concern is just to preserve flowers sufficiently for them to be dissected,
you might try 70% ETOH, with no other additions. If the specimens are not
intended to be saved as museum specimens, you could use denatured 70% ETOH,
which is considerably less expensive.


Hope this helps.


--John


John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:37 PM Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>> wrote:

> Hi there!
> Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers for later
> dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about 40%) but I'm not sure
> I want to bring that into a classroom.  Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Gretchen Meier (*she/her/hers*)
> Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
> University of Minnesota Duluth
> gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
> 218.726.6542
>
> *Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer *
> 'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come hurrying
> back'
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 22:35:01 +0200
From: Dirk Neumann <neumann at snsb.de<mailto:neumann at snsb.de>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Alcohol concentrations for preserving flowers
Message-ID: <4c0225cc-fd76-f642-f9d6-5e3ee84225a8 at snsb.de<mailto:4c0225cc-fd76-f642-f9d6-5e3ee84225a8 at snsb.de>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

... it might be worth adding that some denaturants as some ketones are
also used as component in chromatography and extract pigments quite well
(not all, put some). Natural colours can be caused by quite different
effects and sources, e.g., pigments, unsaturated [metal] ions as key
element in chelating agents, optical refraction on crystals embedded in
tissues, etc..

Often, the effect of visual colour we see in the specimens we collect is
caused by electron excitation in biomolecules, which cause changes in
the bonding or chemistry of respective molecules. Most of our fixatives
and storage fluids tend to be highly polar, and through polarisation or
depolarisation of respective biomolecules, colours usually fade - cf.
colour reaction in many indicators we use.

There are few natural pigments that are stable, but admittedly few. And
I would always be careful with bright coloured, historic teaching
specimens prepared around 1900 ... As old bold bright paints, the
ingredient are rarely healthy (and usually containing heavy metals such
as cadmium, chrome, lead, etc.)

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 10.05.2021 um 20:10 schrieb John E Simmons:
> Gretchen,
>
> I was hoping that a botanist might respond on the list with a
> recommendation for you (botany is not my specialty). I can tell you
> that the original Kew mixture was 53 percent industrial methylated
> spirits (IMS, which is ethyl alcohol containing 9 percent water and
> 2?4 percent methanol), 37 percent water, 5 percent formalin (?dilute
> formaldehyde?), and 5 percent glycerol (Forman and Bridson 1989).
>
> A note in the second edition of /The Herbarium Handbook/ (1992) stated
> that due to controls on hazardous chemicals, the original formula at
> Kew had been withdrawn and replaced by a mixture of ?70% alcohol
> (ethanol, or ethanol + trace of methanol), 29% water and 1% glycerol.
> If using 90% strength Industrial Methylated Spirit (IMS) the mixture
> is 78% IMS, 21% water and 1% glycerol. With different strengths of IMS
> the proportions must be adjusted accordingly? (Forman and Bridson
> 1989, 210).
>
> In the third edition (Bridson and Forman 1998) the Kew mixture recipe
> was ten parts IMS, one part formalin, one part glycerol, and eight
> parts water.
>
>
> The Kew mixture was supposed to help preserve the color in plants. If
> your concern is just to preserve flowers sufficiently for them to be
> dissected, you might try 70% ETOH, with no other additions. If the
> specimens are not intended to be saved as museum specimens, you could
> use denatured 70% ETOH, which is considerably less expensive.
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> --John
>
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> /and/
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> /and/
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:37 PM Gretchen Meier <gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>
> <mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>> wrote:
>
>    Hi there!
>    Is there a recommended ETOH concentration for preserving flowers
>    for later dissection? In a pinch, I've used cheap vodka (about
>    40%) but I'm not sure I want to bring that into a classroom.? Any
>    suggestions?
>
>    --
>    Gretchen Meier (/she/her/hers/)
>    Olga Lakela Herbarium (DUL)
>    University of Minnesota Duluth
>    gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu> <mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu<mailto:gameier at d.umn.edu>>
>    218.726.6542
>
>    /Naturum expellas furca, tamen usque recurret - Homer /
>    'you may drive nature out with a pitchfork, but she will come
>    hurrying back'
>
>
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    Nhcoll-l mailing list
>    Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
>    https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>    <https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l>
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>    Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>    mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>    natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>    society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> <http://www.spnhc.org> for
>    membership information.
>    Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 19:27:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "membership at spnhc.org<mailto:membership at spnhc.org>" <membership at spnhc.org<mailto:membership at spnhc.org>>
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC Education DemoCamp 2021
Message-ID: <1620775636.256320094 at apps.rackspace.com<mailto:1620775636.256320094 at apps.rackspace.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"






The Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections Education Sessional Committee is hosting a virtual [ Natural History Collection Education DemoCamp
]( https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/ <https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/%20> )The goal is to share, discover, and discuss educational materials that have a framework in natural history. This is building upon our previous iterations of the 'education share fair' that were hosted at the annual meeting.


Where: Zoom, of course!

When: 28th and 29th of June, the amount of time blocks will be dependent on the number of presenters.

Cost: Free!


[ Presenter registration ]( https://docs.google.com/forms/u/1/d/e/1FAIpQLSc-wvV0pxDutboRlywLETIICxEUOOFkJOAd7eAlms5lIdtSqQ/viewform <https://docs.google.com/forms/u/1/d/e/1FAIpQLSc-wvV0pxDutboRlywLETIICxEUOOFkJOAd7eAlms5lIdtSqQ/viewform%20> ) is open until June 6th and[  general attendee registration ]( https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZItcuqtqjMsG9GhIqNsWpIaNf7ilXh-gVeF <https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZItcuqtqjMsG9GhIqNsWpIaNf7ilXh-gVeF%20> ) will be open up until the event.Please see the [ website  ]( https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/ <https://spnhc.org/education-democamp/%20> )for additional details and reach out to us with any questions: [ educationdemocamp at gmail.com<mailto:educationdemocamp at gmail.com> ]( mailto:educationdemocamp at gmail.com<mailto:educationdemocamp at gmail.com> )



Anna Monfils & Molly Philips, Committee Co-Chairs
Jen Bauer & Liz Leith, Committee Co-Secretary
Julie Robinson, Jessa Watters, & Kari Harris, Committee Members
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 04:35:10 +0000
From: "Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)" <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>
To: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
Message-ID:
    <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529 at ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com<mailto:ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529 at ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello all,

I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or feedback would be very appreciated!

Cheers,

Tonya

---------------------------------------------------------
Dr Tonya Haff
Collection Manager
Australian National Wildlife Collection
National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO
Canberra, Australia
Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)
(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)

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Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org%20> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


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End of Nhcoll-l Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
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From neumann at snsb.de  Thu May 13 06:52:27 2021
From: neumann at snsb.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 12:52:27 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial vertebrates
In-Reply-To: <58B70818-F883-4A28-BF4F-C08A31EE38C2@gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
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Message-ID: <dc88e16d-7e48-6f47-9bfc-6cb68e7f0508@snsb.de>

Dear Sergio,

alone in the Eu there are over 30 accredited denaturants, often they are 
mixed to make the ethanol undrinkable. While some have limited effects 
on the stability of the DNA-molecule, others do affect the integrity 
sooner or later. This is a gradual process that is strongly linked with 
the polarity of the denaturing agents, causing fragmentation and 
degradation of the DNA.

Usually, especially in commercial product, it is not really specified 
which denaturants exactly have been added, and even though you use the 
same product, denaturing agents may change. Since 2012, the EU strives 
to harmonise taxation of ethanol and thus spoiling of ethanol to make it 
undrinkable. More information is provided here: 
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/excise-duties-alcohol-tobacco-energy/excise-duties-alcohol/alcohol-not-human-consumption_en

The results can be found here: 
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32018R1880&from=EN

/The common //denatur//ing procedure //for completely //denatured 
//alcohol //employed in Belgium, //Bulgaria, Czech //Republic, 
//Denmark, //Germany, Estonia, //Ireland, //Greece, //Spain, //France, 
//Italy, Cyprus, Latvia, //Lithuania, //Luxembourg, //Hungar//y, Malta, 
//the Netherlands, //Austria, Poland, //Portugal, Romania, //Slovenia, 
Slovakia and //Finland: //Per hectolit//re of absolute //ethanol:/
? 1,0 litre isopropyl alcohol,
? 1,0 litre methyl ethyl ketone,
? 1,0 gram denatonium benzoate.

Isoprop and Bitrex (denatonium benzoate) surely are not an issue, but 
the keton MEK breaks down over time as it is a highly polar molecule 
that tends to oxidise other (bio) molecules.

While some EU-countries allow research institutions the usage of untaxed 
undentaured ethanol, other countries don't. And even though a common 
procedure for denaturing has been approved, you have no control that it 
is always applied.

Thus I would clearly vote for exclusive usage of undenatured, pure (96%) 
EtOH. It might be worth noting negative effects on the DNA-quality has 
been reported from 99.8% EtOH occasionally, which might be linked with 
residual chemical agents (usually low boiling benzines) used to "dry" 
the ethanol above 96%.

Hope this helps
Dirk


Am 13.05.2021 um 11:06 schrieb Sergio Montagud:
>
> No, I?m referring to ethanol or ethyl alcohol.
>
> Sergio
>
> *From: *Lennart Lennuk <Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee>
> *Date: *Thursday, 13 May 2021 at 11:00
> *To: *Sergio Montagud <sergio.montagud at gmail.com>, 
> "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject: *RE: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial 
> vertebrates
>
> Are you talking about methanol?
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] *On Behalf 
> Of *Sergio Montagud
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 13, 2021 11:59 AM
> *To:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* [Nhcoll-l] FW: Alcohol concentration for terrestrial 
> vertebrates
>
> I take advantage of this interesting conversation to ask about 
> properties to preserve DNA of commercial ethanol (96 %) used for 
> sanitary use. I have heard different ?opinions. A lot of them says 
> that the component used in this ethanol to make it undrinkable could 
> affect the DNA stabilization. Other people employ it to preserve the 
> samples and seems not to have problems about DNA extractions. After 
> years of experiences? Does someone knows if there is any work or 
> article that definitively concludes on this?
>
> Sergio
>
> --
>
> ********************************
>
> Sergio Montagud Alario
>
> Museu [UV] Hist?ria Natural
>
> Universitat de Val?ncia
>
> e-mail: sergio.montagud at uv.es <mailto:sergio.montagud at uv.es>
>
> ********************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


-- 


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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From christina_giovas at sfu.ca  Thu May 13 09:45:10 2021
From: christina_giovas at sfu.ca (Christina Giovas)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 13:45:10 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons
In-Reply-To: <E816CC8D-4AC8-4B65-960D-C98E24B116F2@gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>
 <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0@snsb.de>
 <CC5E1FA8-D092-4B8E-904C-2195BC816244@gmail.com>,
 <E816CC8D-4AC8-4B65-960D-C98E24B116F2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a253f14a0e34b29bcbd3284ba6a33fd@sfu.ca>

Hello All,


An Australian colleague of mine is preparing fish specimens for osteological collections and has several pufferfish (Tetraodontidae) to tackle. She is worried about tetrodotoxin exposure using conventional methods. Is anyone aware of published protocols for safely skeletonizing these fish or have experience handling tetraodontids or diodontids? Looking to avert a bad outcome.


Many thanks,

Christina


Christina M. Giovas, PhD
Assistant Professor, Department of Archaeology, Simon Fraser University
Associate Editor, Journal of Island and Coastal Archaeology
Associate Editor, Journal of Anthropological Research
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From HawksC at si.edu  Thu May 13 14:06:33 2021
From: HawksC at si.edu (Hawks, Catharine)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 18:06:33 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons
In-Reply-To: <BN8PR12MB4980066389DD26B1CEEBB507A7519@BN8PR12MB4980.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>
 <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0@snsb.de>
 <CC5E1FA8-D092-4B8E-904C-2195BC816244@gmail.com>,
 <E816CC8D-4AC8-4B65-960D-C98E24B116F2@gmail.com>
 <6a253f14a0e34b29bcbd3284ba6a33fd@sfu.ca>
 <BL1PR12MB51112BE92F02E0F8E8305A15BF519@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BN8PR12MB4980066389DD26B1CEEBB507A7519@BN8PR12MB4980.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB51113AAEF3FF32FCE440908ABF519@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

From: Harmon, Kimberly A. <HarmonKA at si.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 2:03 PM
To: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>; Hunt, Michael <HuntMi at si.edu>; Makos, Kathryn <MAKOSK at si.edu>; Kathryn Makos [kamakos at verizon.net] (kamakos at verizon.net) <kamakos at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

Definitely!
I can't say that I have any experience with it but was intrigued.
And it looks like they really do need to take serious precautions.

Looks like it is highly toxic not only through ingestion but can also be absorbed through the skin or inhaled.  I found this animal toxicity study using tetrodotoxin which lists PPE and precautions when injecting it in animals, which might be a good starting place for info and it looks like the person listed might still be at Emory.
http://www.dar.emory.edu/safety/agents/TETRODO.pdf
Here's is also a SDS for tetrodotoxin
https://www.caymanchem.com/msdss/14963m.pdf

Kim
From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu<mailto:HawksC at si.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Harmon, Kimberly A. <HarmonKA at si.edu<mailto:HarmonKA at si.edu>>; Hunt, Michael <HuntMi at si.edu<mailto:HuntMi at si.edu>>; Makos, Kathryn <MAKOSK at si.edu<mailto:MAKOSK at si.edu>>; Kathryn Makos [kamakos at verizon.net] (kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>) <kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>>
Subject: FW: Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

Interesting inquiry!

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Christina Giovas
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 9:45 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

External Email - Exercise Caution

Hello All,



An Australian colleague of mine is preparing fish specimens for osteological collections and has several pufferfish (Tetraodontidae) to tackle. She is worried about tetrodotoxin exposure using conventional methods. Is anyone aware of published protocols for safely skeletonizing these fish or have experience handling tetraodontids or diodontids? Looking to avert a bad outcome.



Many thanks,

Christina


Christina M. Giovas, PhD
Assistant Professor, Department of Archaeology, Simon Fraser University
Associate Editor, Journal of Island and Coastal Archaeology
Associate Editor, Journal of Anthropological Research
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From HawksC at si.edu  Thu May 13 14:10:55 2021
From: HawksC at si.edu (Hawks, Catharine)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 18:10:55 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons
In-Reply-To: <6a253f14a0e34b29bcbd3284ba6a33fd@sfu.ca>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>
 <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0@snsb.de>
 <CC5E1FA8-D092-4B8E-904C-2195BC816244@gmail.com>,
 <E816CC8D-4AC8-4B65-960D-C98E24B116F2@gmail.com>
 <6a253f14a0e34b29bcbd3284ba6a33fd@sfu.ca>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB5111CEAE4DD99E2956A05839BF519@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

See below from two Smithsonian Industrial Hygienists:

PubChem and the CDC have developed resources, including a section on PPE;
1.Tetrodotoxin | C11H17N3O8 - PubChem (nih.gov)<https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/tetrodotoxin#section=Personal-Protective-Equipment-(PPE)>
2. CDC - The Emergency Response Safety and Health Database: Biotoxin: TETRODOTOXIN - NIOSH<https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750019.html>

Per PubChem
"A fatal dose may be as little as 1 to 4 mg per person.
Klaassen, C.D. (ed). Casarett and Doull's Toxicology. The Basic Science of Poisons. 6th ed. New York, NY: McGraw-Hill, 2001., p. 1079
Hazardous Substances Data Bank (HSDB)
... the minimum lethal dose in an adult human is estimated to be 2-3 mg.
PMID:25551594<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25551594>
Cole JB et al; MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 63 (51): 1222-5 (2015"

Mike

From: Harmon, Kimberly A. <HarmonKA at si.edu<mailto:HarmonKA at si.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 2:03 PM
To: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu<mailto:HawksC at si.edu>>; Hunt, Michael <HuntMi at si.edu<mailto:HuntMi at si.edu>>; Makos, Kathryn <MAKOSK at si.edu<mailto:MAKOSK at si.edu>>; Kathryn Makos [kamakos at verizon.net] (kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>) <kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>>
Subject: RE: Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

Definitely!
I can't say that I have any experience with it but was intrigued.
And it looks like they really do need to take serious precautions.

Looks like it is highly toxic not only through ingestion but can also be absorbed through the skin or inhaled.  I found this animal toxicity study using tetrodotoxin which lists PPE and precautions when injecting it in animals, which might be a good starting place for info and it looks like the person listed might still be at Emory.
http://www.dar.emory.edu/safety/agents/TETRODO.pdf
Here's is also a SDS for tetrodotoxin
https://www.caymanchem.com/msdss/14963m.pdf

Kim
From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu<mailto:HawksC at si.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Harmon, Kimberly A. <HarmonKA at si.edu<mailto:HarmonKA at si.edu>>; Hunt, Michael <HuntMi at si.edu<mailto:HuntMi at si.edu>>; Makos, Kathryn <MAKOSK at si.edu<mailto:MAKOSK at si.edu>>; Kathryn Makos [kamakos at verizon.net] (kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>) <kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>>
Subject: FW: Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

Interesting inquiry!

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Christina Giovas
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 9:45 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Christina Giovas
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 9:45 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

External Email - Exercise Caution

Hello All,



An Australian colleague of mine is preparing fish specimens for osteological collections and has several pufferfish (Tetraodontidae) to tackle. She is worried about tetrodotoxin exposure using conventional methods. Is anyone aware of published protocols for safely skeletonizing these fish or have experience handling tetraodontids or diodontids? Looking to avert a bad outcome.



Many thanks,

Christina


Christina M. Giovas, PhD
Assistant Professor, Department of Archaeology, Simon Fraser University
Associate Editor, Journal of Island and Coastal Archaeology
Associate Editor, Journal of Anthropological Research
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From tmuller21 at coa.edu  Thu May 13 22:48:47 2021
From: tmuller21 at coa.edu (Truth Muller)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 22:48:47 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Adding glycerin to & handling preserved soft inverts
Message-ID: <CAGM3ZCcpGUOgM9d3-XhT-NiXuNxPqOLHfQSAkGbJqRVF9BL+5w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I've got two questions regarding preserved marine invertebrates,
specifically fragile ones such as ctenophores, jellyfish, and larval
crustaceans. The Dorr Museum is moving all of its collections to a new
storage area, and we have a number of fragile specimens that have been
neglected and need some "life" breathed back into them before the move.

1. How does one go about "handling" preserved jellies and crustacean
larvae? A few need new jars due to lid failure/cracked glass and I can't
quite wrap my head around how to do it without ruining them. Our specimens
are almost all preserved in 70% ethanol (a few old ones are in ~50%
Isopropyl).

2. I know I read somewhere that some amount of glycerin (I believe it was
glycerin) added to the ethanol solution improves the way that jelly-like
specimens "sit" in their jars, so that they don't just lie in a glob at the
bottom. If that's true, how much glycerin should be used?

Any tips would be appreciated as always, thank you,

~Truth Muller
George B. Dorr Natural History Museum, College of the Atlantic
Student Manager of Marine Wet Collections
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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Fri May 14 10:31:44 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 15:31:44 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Adding glycerin to & handling preserved soft inverts
In-Reply-To: <CAGM3ZCcpGUOgM9d3-XhT-NiXuNxPqOLHfQSAkGbJqRVF9BL+5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGM3ZCcpGUOgM9d3-XhT-NiXuNxPqOLHfQSAkGbJqRVF9BL+5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C67F047-08FF-4D6C-9606-9C6D6AD82C5F@btinternet.com>

Hi Truth,

Yours is a slightly tricky enquiry but I have had some experience in this field when I was curating and conserving the NHM?s coelenterate collections back in the 1980s.

Firstly, The relationship between a jellied invertebrate and its preservative fluid is important as the two osmotically equilibrate over time, so each time you change the fluid or up the concentration of fluid, then you are temporarily upsetting that equilibrium; so unless the fluid is low in the jar or contaminated (not just coloured), try to leave them alone.

Assuming you wish to go ahead.
Firstly, you must make up all the diluted alcohols well in advance - alcohol and (purified but not distilled) water form a binary azeotrope when mixed - just an awareness, but more importantly, any dissolved gases in the fluids will be released when mixed.  So if you?re making up your 70% alcohol (presumably), the mixing must occur at least 24 hours before using or you will find many tiny air bubbles attaching themselves to your specimens (both outside and, worse, inside too!) resulting in floating tentacles &c! 

If alcohol dilutions have occurred and you wish to restore them to the required level, firstly check the specimen - is it still in one piece, reasonably robust? Do you want to proceed or leave it until the level drops further? If the alcohol concentration is below 30% you will need to increase the percentage up to the usual level by transferring through a ladder of increasing concentrations of alcohol at 10% steps.  This reduces the risk of osmotic shrivelling or syneresis, even though it?s a bore to do.  I use poly-propylene boxes with clip-on lids as containers for the ladder, and gently transfer the specimens up the ladder using a vegetable straining spoon (v useful).  Normally, a specimen takes about 2 hours to equilibrate in the new level of alcohol before being moved up again.
Your specimens should appear opaque rather than translucent if preserved in alcohol and will be slightly more robust than those preserved in aqueous preservatives.

If you add glycerine then this will increase transparency of the specimens (look better) but will give you an additional headache with releasing more air bubbles, an increase in osmotic pressure (laddering up more slowly) and you must ensure that the glycerine (usually 5%) is thoroughly mixed with the alcohol - any trace of Schleren Optics (wavy lines in the fluid) will spell out problems!

Finally, it?s fine to suspend specimens in jars: I use a thin monofilament with a small see-through acetate plastic disc attached by a knot in the thread, at the lower end. Sew this line through the umbrella (centrally) and then attach the end to the lid of the jar (some have a special glass knob for this purpose) or through the top-up hole if a flat circular lidded jar.  

Sorry to be so long-winded and cautious but these specimens are among the most difficult to look after.  I hope that the auto-correct hasn?t ?corrected? too much!

Let me know if you need any more advice and good luck!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 14 May 2021, at 03:48, Truth Muller <tmuller21 at coa.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I've got two questions regarding preserved marine invertebrates, specifically fragile ones such as ctenophores, jellyfish, and larval crustaceans. The Dorr Museum is moving all of its collections to a new storage area, and we have a number of fragile specimens that have been neglected and need some "life" breathed back into them before the move.
> 
> 1. How does one go about "handling" preserved jellies and crustacean larvae? A few need new jars due to lid failure/cracked glass and I can't quite wrap my head around how to do it without ruining them. Our specimens are almost all preserved in 70% ethanol (a few old ones are in ~50% Isopropyl).
> 
> 2. I know I read somewhere that some amount of glycerin (I believe it was glycerin) added to the ethanol solution improves the way that jelly-like specimens "sit" in their jars, so that they don't just lie in a glob at the bottom. If that's true, how much glycerin should be used?
> 
> Any tips would be appreciated as always, thank you,
> 
> ~Truth Muller
> George B. Dorr Natural History Museum, College of the Atlantic
> Student Manager of Marine Wet Collections
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Fri May 14 11:24:21 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 16:24:21 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Adding glycerin to & handling preserved soft inverts
In-Reply-To: <BN7PR08MB5074318724E185285B2DD5C2DA509@BN7PR08MB5074.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAGM3ZCcpGUOgM9d3-XhT-NiXuNxPqOLHfQSAkGbJqRVF9BL+5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C67F047-08FF-4D6C-9606-9C6D6AD82C5F@btinternet.com>
 <BN7PR08MB5074318724E185285B2DD5C2DA509@BN7PR08MB5074.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BB55E499-32E3-4CA3-A364-6624851A1880@btinternet.com>

Hi Eric,

Oh yes, I had to deal with the entire gamut of cnidarians (and ctenophores!)  With PMOW specimens, if one was required to float, then I put out a ?wanted? call and then used a fresh one with its float intact. I did have to weight down the float in the formalin to fix it although I preferred to pipette the formalin over the float periodically during fixation and this worked.  So the specimen just floated on the formalin with a water-tight grease seal on the lid.  The dactylozooids and other bits just dangled down into the fluid (5% formalin preservative) and it was on display in the NHM when I visited about 2 years ago and it was prepped in about 1985.

However, if you have to repair a punctured / ruptured specimens that?s more difficult as you have to work with alcohol preservative or it won?t work.  You will need some collodion in a 50/50 di-ethyl ether and absolute ethanol mix.  You will also need some of the ether/alc solvent on its own.  
Dry the to-be-repaired area on an absorbent tissue, then brush on some solvent, then pipette on the collodion and leave for about 10-15 minutes to gel.  Then pipette some 70% ethanol over the repair so that the collodion gels a bit further.  Replace into preservative alcohol and then (another tricky bit!) using a hypodermic syringe, inject enough air into the float on the little piecrust tail that sticks up, to float it but not make it tight as a drum-skin or it will likely rupture the repair.  Repeat the solvent collodion treatment to the hole you just made with the syringe and there you have it!  Easy? No, it may take a bit of practice!

The alternative is to make a glass rod stand to stand inside the jar to support the specimen. If you?re skilful with a Bunsen Burner this shouldn?t be too difficult.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 14 May 2021, at 15:43, Lazo-Wasem, Eric <eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hello Simon,
>  
> My ears perked up when you mentioned suspending specimens such as jellies in the jar.  I have done so for years, although mostly for any non-jelly I mount it on glass plates (learning the hard way NOT to use plexiglass ? long, humiliating story there).  My current problem is prepping a portuguese man-of-war for long term exhibit.  We had one naturally suspended, float on top, for at least 70 years, but with the constant moving etc. over the past 10 years (moves, renovations, temp displays etc.) it has finally started the creep downwards.  I have fretted how to do this.  I worry that putting a nylon line through the float will collapse it; but perhaps I can envelop the base instead.  Do you have any experience with this group? 
>  
> Thanks for your insightful comments; always educational and informative.
>  
> Best, Eric
>  
> Eric A. Lazo-Wasem
> Senior Collections Manager
> Peabody Museum of Natural History
> Yale University
> 170 Whitney Ave.
> New Haven, CT 06520
> 203 432-3784
>  
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Simon Moore
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 10:32 AM
> To: Truth Muller <tmuller21 at coa.edu>
> Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Adding glycerin to & handling preserved soft inverts
>  
> Hi Truth,
>  
> Yours is a slightly tricky enquiry but I have had some experience in this field when I was curating and conserving the NHM?s coelenterate collections back in the 1980s.
>  
> Firstly, The relationship between a jellied invertebrate and its preservative fluid is important as the two osmotically equilibrate over time, so each time you change the fluid or up the concentration of fluid, then you are temporarily upsetting that equilibrium; so unless the fluid is low in the jar or contaminated (not just coloured), try to leave them alone.
>  
> Assuming you wish to go ahead.
> Firstly, you must make up all the diluted alcohols well in advance - alcohol and (purified but not distilled) water form a binary azeotrope when mixed - just an awareness, but more importantly, any dissolved gases in the fluids will be released when mixed.  So if you?re making up your 70% alcohol (presumably), the mixing must occur at least 24 hours before using or you will find many tiny air bubbles attaching themselves to your specimens (both outside and, worse, inside too!) resulting in floating tentacles &c! 
>  
> If alcohol dilutions have occurred and you wish to restore them to the required level, firstly check the specimen - is it still in one piece, reasonably robust? Do you want to proceed or leave it until the level drops further? If the alcohol concentration is below 30% you will need to increase the percentage up to the usual level by transferring through a ladder of increasing concentrations of alcohol at 10% steps.  This reduces the risk of osmotic shrivelling or syneresis, even though it?s a bore to do.  I use poly-propylene boxes with clip-on lids as containers for the ladder, and gently transfer the specimens up the ladder using a vegetable straining spoon (v useful).  Normally, a specimen takes about 2 hours to equilibrate in the new level of alcohol before being moved up again.
> Your specimens should appear opaque rather than translucent if preserved in alcohol and will be slightly more robust than those preserved in aqueous preservatives.
>  
> If you add glycerine then this will increase transparency of the specimens (look better) but will give you an additional headache with releasing more air bubbles, an increase in osmotic pressure (laddering up more slowly) and you must ensure that the glycerine (usually 5%) is thoroughly mixed with the alcohol - any trace of Schleren Optics (wavy lines in the fluid) will spell out problems!
>  
> Finally, it?s fine to suspend specimens in jars: I use a thin monofilament with a small see-through acetate plastic disc attached by a knot in the thread, at the lower end. Sew this line through the umbrella (centrally) and then attach the end to the lid of the jar (some have a special glass knob for this purpose) or through the top-up hole if a flat circular lidded jar.  
>  
> Sorry to be so long-winded and cautious but these specimens are among the most difficult to look after.  I hope that the auto-correct hasn?t ?corrected? too much!
>  
> Let me know if you need any more advice and good luck!
>  
> With all good wishes, Simon
> 
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
> 
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
> 
> 
> <image001.png><image002.jpg>
> 
> 
> On 14 May 2021, at 03:48, Truth Muller <tmuller21 at coa.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I've got two questions regarding preserved marine invertebrates, specifically fragile ones such as ctenophores, jellyfish, and larval crustaceans. The Dorr Museum is moving all of its collections to a new storage area, and we have a number of fragile specimens that have been neglected and need some "life" breathed back into them before the move.
> 
> 1. How does one go about "handling" preserved jellies and crustacean larvae? A few need new jars due to lid failure/cracked glass and I can't quite wrap my head around how to do it without ruining them. Our specimens are almost all preserved in 70% ethanol (a few old ones are in ~50% Isopropyl).
> 
> 2. I know I read somewhere that some amount of glycerin (I believe it was glycerin) added to the ethanol solution improves the way that jelly-like specimens "sit" in their jars, so that they don't just lie in a glob at the bottom. If that's true, how much glycerin should be used?
> 
> Any tips would be appreciated as always, thank you,
> 
> ~Truth Muller
> George B. Dorr Natural History Museum, College of the Atlantic
> Student Manager of Marine Wet Collections
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>  

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From christina_giovas at sfu.ca  Fri May 14 16:21:55 2021
From: christina_giovas at sfu.ca (Christina Giovas)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 20:21:55 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons
In-Reply-To: <BL1PR12MB5111CEAE4DD99E2956A05839BF519@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676D0422C297FB769866488EE589@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAF7GCDbx7-zfPSWkFmJJYjwwap_ApGAPWhd1uN2NBx19i9deew@mail.gmail.com>
 <509A49C5-8658-4BB5-A3A3-F39B3ECB5609@btinternet.com>
 <ec370430-fb00-9983-a890-3f2a709c541b@snsb.de>
 <5a54bf317f8a43f2aa2cac9b5242a283@nrm.se>
 <CAGsrPoL_+oYZZae=hL9kp5aNpqxGc=8tfAHgrRw9Pk=iF6qe+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <945E53CC-DBBD-41D2-8A43-3CC71B88F60A@btinternet.com>
 <CAGsrPo+cGTyuw3wsBDqQ3Z5cameTn0k_40Fui4H1j6c84F3F_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaQVa_-SWiu-GiNU0bYfgCUJOkrtRXoqAz9GQ_U6C8b-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGsrPoKnjZjcjyUNX656KfoyCryKSsN0FUtUW3Ak6frNgBqPzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDaA_bUkt+HwdB+XEj0OszL-5oPVFsdtVC=2NkzMfoneQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A4B2DD3D-DE19-4C56-9A22-0567E0D1956B@btinternet.com>
 <df425eb2-b921-2131-2336-0258a87722a0@snsb.de>
 <CC5E1FA8-D092-4B8E-904C-2195BC816244@gmail.com>,
 <E816CC8D-4AC8-4B65-960D-C98E24B116F2@gmail.com>
 <6a253f14a0e34b29bcbd3284ba6a33fd@sfu.ca>,
 <BL1PR12MB5111CEAE4DD99E2956A05839BF519@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <7d909f13d83a4060a8142b729e0763b7@sfu.ca>

Many thanks to all who responded on my pufferfish query! I've passed along the information to my colleague.


Best,

Christina


Christina M. Giovas, PhD
Assistant Professor, Department of Archaeology, Simon Fraser University
Associate Editor, Journal of Island and Coastal Archaeology
Associate Editor, Journal of Anthropological Research


________________________________
From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
Sent: May 13, 2021 11:10:55 AM
To: Christina Giovas; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Cc: Hunt, Michael; Harmon, Kimberly A.
Subject: RE: Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

See below from two Smithsonian Industrial Hygienists:

PubChem and the CDC have developed resources, including a section on PPE;
1.Tetrodotoxin | C11H17N3O8 - PubChem (nih.gov)<https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/tetrodotoxin#section=Personal-Protective-Equipment-(PPE)>
2. CDC - The Emergency Response Safety and Health Database: Biotoxin: TETRODOTOXIN - NIOSH<https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750019.html>

Per PubChem
?A fatal dose may be as little as 1 to 4 mg per person.
Klaassen, C.D. (ed). Casarett and Doull's Toxicology. The Basic Science of Poisons. 6th ed. New York, NY: McGraw-Hill, 2001., p. 1079
Hazardous Substances Data Bank (HSDB)
... the minimum lethal dose in an adult human is estimated to be 2-3 mg.
PMID:25551594<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25551594>
Cole JB et al; MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 63 (51): 1222-5 (2015?

Mike

From: Harmon, Kimberly A. <HarmonKA at si.edu<mailto:HarmonKA at si.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 2:03 PM
To: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu<mailto:HawksC at si.edu>>; Hunt, Michael <HuntMi at si.edu<mailto:HuntMi at si.edu>>; Makos, Kathryn <MAKOSK at si.edu<mailto:MAKOSK at si.edu>>; Kathryn Makos [kamakos at verizon.net] (kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>) <kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>>
Subject: RE: Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

Definitely!
I can?t say that I have any experience with it but was intrigued.
And it looks like they really do need to take serious precautions.

Looks like it is highly toxic not only through ingestion but can also be absorbed through the skin or inhaled.  I found this animal toxicity study using tetrodotoxin which lists PPE and precautions when injecting it in animals, which might be a good starting place for info and it looks like the person listed might still be at Emory.
http://www.dar.emory.edu/safety/agents/TETRODO.pdf
Here?s is also a SDS for tetrodotoxin
https://www.caymanchem.com/msdss/14963m.pdf

Kim
From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu<mailto:HawksC at si.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 1:16 PM
To: Harmon, Kimberly A. <HarmonKA at si.edu<mailto:HarmonKA at si.edu>>; Hunt, Michael <HuntMi at si.edu<mailto:HuntMi at si.edu>>; Makos, Kathryn <MAKOSK at si.edu<mailto:MAKOSK at si.edu>>; Kathryn Makos [kamakos at verizon.net] (kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>) <kamakos at verizon.net<mailto:kamakos at verizon.net>>
Subject: FW: Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

Interesting inquiry!

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Christina Giovas
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 9:45 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Christina Giovas
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 9:45 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Preparing Tetraodontid Skeletons

External Email - Exercise Caution

Hello All,



An Australian colleague of mine is preparing fish specimens for osteological collections and has several pufferfish (Tetraodontidae) to tackle. She is worried about tetrodotoxin exposure using conventional methods. Is anyone aware of published protocols for safely skeletonizing these fish or have experience handling tetraodontids or diodontids? Looking to avert a bad outcome.



Many thanks,

Christina


Christina M. Giovas, PhD
Assistant Professor, Department of Archaeology, Simon Fraser University
Associate Editor, Journal of Island and Coastal Archaeology
Associate Editor, Journal of Anthropological Research
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From Jim.Solomon at mobot.org  Fri May 14 17:14:10 2021
From: Jim.Solomon at mobot.org (Jim Solomon)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 21:14:10 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Job Posting: Curator and Director of the Herbarium,
 Missouri Botanical Garden
Message-ID: <MW3PR15MB3914306D82316F7B903ADA69E6509@MW3PR15MB3914.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

The Missouri Botanical Garden is seeking applicants for the position of Curator and Director of the Herbarium.  The essential duties and responsibilities are given below.

The full listing can be viewed at: https://us59.dayforcehcm.com/CandidatePortal/en-US/MBG/Posting/View/540
or through Job Opportunities: https://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/about/additional-information/jobs.aspx


Curator and Director of Herbarium

Missouri Botanical Garden, 2345 Tower Grove Ave., St. Louis, Missouri, United States of America, Req. #273. Posted Wednesday, 5 May 2021

Summary: Oversees and manages the Herbarium Department which is responsible for all activities connected with the acquisition, storage, care, and access to plant specimens in the herbarium collection and the management and access of their associated data for Garden staff, students, research visitors, outside users, and the general public.

Essential Duties and Responsibilities:

*                     Supervises staff involved in all aspects of research collection management, including such tasks as shipping and receiving of specimens, data entry, specimen processing, mounting, filing, collection access, etc.
*                     Hires, trains and oversees the daily activities of department employees.
*                     Creates and manages the Herbarium Department budget.
*                     Responsible for the strategic growth and improvement of the research collection and its long-term care.
*                     Develops partnerships and collaborates with other herbaria, establishing cooperative agreements for mutually strengthening both collections and relationships that promote botanical research.
*                     Conducts independent research in plant systematics or a related field.
*                     Identifies potential funding sources and writes proposals to secure external funding for collections-related projects; Works within MBG established guidelines in preparing and monitoring grant proposal budgets.
*                     Participates in scientific meetings and delivers lectures to professional organizations, both nationally and internationally, and the general public as requested.
*                     Serves as the point person for all inquiries, internal and external, related to collections, and scientific information.
*                     Supervises the acquisition and use of data in databases and from other sources for plant research.
*                     Takes a proactive role in developing appropriate policies for all aspects of access and use of the research collections and their associated data.
*                     Takes responsibility for complying with collections-related international, national, and state laws, maintaining permits, and preparing required reporting.
*                     Ensures that all applicable safety standards are followed; informs employees/students/volunteers of safety guidelines, methods to reduce hazards. Reports all accidents, injuries, and near-miss accidents immediately.
*                     Behaves and communicates in a manner that promotes and fosters a culture of teamwork and cooperation, within the Science and Conservation Division and throughout the Garden, with co-workers, supervisors/managers, volunteers, visitors, and employees.
*                     Performs other duties as assigned.

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From Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee  Sat May 15 05:27:43 2021
From: Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee (Lennart Lennuk)
Date: Sat, 15 May 2021 09:27:43 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: what materials use in collection storage rooms for
 walls, floors and ceilings.
Message-ID: <2b4c0ef3c54c4a25bf9e9cef75b92e2b@loodusmuuseum.ee>

Hi

Because I had no answers to my questions, I try again ?
Two question on the material use for collection storage room walls, floors and ceilings:


1)      Is using PVC-flooring in fluid collection and in areas where people work with collections ok?

2)      Our new collections floors are planned to have concrete floors treated with Pentra-Guard<https://convergentconcrete.com/products/pentra-guard-ext>. In description I read it is based on lithium.

Some of the information I have found this far:

I found this in NPS Museum Handbook:
?Treat concrete floors with a sodium silicate sealing/curing agent. This hardens and increases the density of the surface of the concrete, helping protect it from cracking, dusting, and other damage. The floor should be easy to clean without the use of chemical cleaners or water?

And also an short introduction of an article about lithium chloride:
?UTILIZATION OF LITHIUM CHLORIDE SOLUTIONS FOR CONTROLLING RELATIVE
HUMIDITY IN MICRO ENVIRONMENTS
BEYER, SARAH R. and STEPHEN L. WILLIAMS, Museum of Texas Tech University, Lubbock,
Texas 79409-3191
The utilization of saturated salt solutions at known temperatures has been used by the museum
community for establishing desired relative humidities in microenvironments. To alleviate the
expense of acquiring different chemicals, the authors investigated the feasibility of using different
concentrations of lithium chloride for establishing and controlling relative humidity. Much of the
information about the relationship between concentration and relative humidity was extrapolated
from the literature. Subsequent testing demonstrated the usefulness of this information and how it
might be used for initiating controlled changes in microenvironments.?

Best regards
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
(+372) 6603404, 56569916


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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Mon May 17 08:36:23 2021
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 12:36:23 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] what materials use in collection storage rooms for
 walls, floors and ceilings.
In-Reply-To: <2b4c0ef3c54c4a25bf9e9cef75b92e2b@loodusmuuseum.ee>
References: <2b4c0ef3c54c4a25bf9e9cef75b92e2b@loodusmuuseum.ee>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB52201AB9010B43608FC4FEAAC32D9@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Sealing concrete floors: in part what you do depends on how well the concrete was originally rendered. If it was skimmed to a smooth, slightly glossy finish then that should take a thinner, solvent-based sealant well. We recently did this for concrete floors in our public museum.
If it's rougher, however, or you can empty the room and roughen it with a machine, then two-pack epoxy is worth considering. This is what they put on workshop floors, and if correctly applied it's tough, easy to clean and durable.


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2021 5:28 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: what materials use in collection storage rooms for walls, floors and ceilings.


External.
Hi

Because I had no answers to my questions, I try again :)
Two question on the material use for collection storage room walls, floors and ceilings:


1)      Is using PVC-flooring in fluid collection and in areas where people work with collections ok?

2)      Our new collections floors are planned to have concrete floors treated with Pentra-Guard<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fconvergentconcrete.com%2Fproducts%2Fpentra-guard-ext&data=04%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7Caba9ae9758194df0be4508d91783b8d8%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C637566676793314125%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=aRTilIC5V8PBXij8FcJH%2F5bIMLRQIaz%2Fd6uY2Af%2FZWE%3D&reserved=0>. In description I read it is based on lithium.

Some of the information I have found this far:

I found this in NPS Museum Handbook:
"Treat concrete floors with a sodium silicate sealing/curing agent. This hardens and increases the density of the surface of the concrete, helping protect it from cracking, dusting, and other damage. The floor should be easy to clean without the use of chemical cleaners or water"

And also an short introduction of an article about lithium chloride:
"UTILIZATION OF LITHIUM CHLORIDE SOLUTIONS FOR CONTROLLING RELATIVE
HUMIDITY IN MICRO ENVIRONMENTS
BEYER, SARAH R. and STEPHEN L. WILLIAMS, Museum of Texas Tech University, Lubbock,
Texas 79409-3191
The utilization of saturated salt solutions at known temperatures has been used by the museum
community for establishing desired relative humidities in microenvironments. To alleviate the
expense of acquiring different chemicals, the authors investigated the feasibility of using different
concentrations of lithium chloride for establishing and controlling relative humidity. Much of the
information about the relationship between concentration and relative humidity was extrapolated
from the literature. Subsequent testing demonstrated the usefulness of this information and how it
might be used for initiating controlled changes in microenvironments."

Best regards
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
(+372) 6603404, 56569916


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From bwatts at brit.org  Mon May 17 14:20:59 2021
From: bwatts at brit.org (Brandy Watts)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 18:20:59 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] New Collection Lens and Botany Stories Articles from
 BRIT Library
Message-ID: <SN6PR14MB212691C6F731C489F35A1273A42D9@SN6PR14MB2126.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Dear All,

I?m pleased to share two new articles from BRIT Library?s Collections Lens and Botany Stories series.

Collections Lens
BRIT Librarian, Brandy Watts, interviews Sean Lahmeyer of the Huntington Herbarium who discusses the history of the collection and its growth through the years. https://brit.org/phytophilia-blog/collections-lens/sean-lehmeyer-of-the-huntington-herbarium/

Botany Stories
BRIT?s new Conservation Research Botanist, Megan O'Connell, discusses her interest in Texas prairie ecosystems and Texas Blackland Prairie. https://brit.org/phytophilia-blog/botany-stories/megan-oconnell-on-texas-prairie-ecosystems/

Best Regards,

Brandy Watts, MLIS, MFA
BRIT Librarian

[https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50562838973_b7fe829a9e.jpg]<https://brit.org/>


DIRECT (817) 463-4102
bwatts at brit.org<mailto:kbarfield at brit.org>
1700 University Drive
Fort Worth, Texas 76107
brit.org<https://brit.org/> | fwbg.org<https://brit.org/>

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From arountre at umich.edu  Mon May 17 15:28:28 2021
From: arountre at umich.edu (Adam Rountrey)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 15:28:28 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] what materials use in collection storage rooms for
 walls, floors and ceilings.
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB52201AB9010B43608FC4FEAAC32D9@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <2b4c0ef3c54c4a25bf9e9cef75b92e2b@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB52201AB9010B43608FC4FEAAC32D9@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <CAN8WEg2_BzBaAaHgWxfeCU-SjGWJd082RwTm3q0Tis5bZjiW2g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
If anyone has documents or experiences relating to the pros/cons of
sodium/potassium/lithium silicate concrete densifiers in museum/archive
environments, I would be interested as well.  I have not been able to find
anything particularly useful, and we are considering their use in one of
our facilities.
Thanks.
-Adam





On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 8:36 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu> wrote:

> Sealing concrete floors: in part what you do depends on how well the
> concrete was originally rendered. If it was skimmed to a smooth, slightly
> glossy finish then that should take a thinner, solvent-based sealant well.
> We recently did this for concrete floors in our public museum.
>
> If it?s rougher, however, or you can empty the room and roughen it with a
> machine, then two-pack epoxy is worth considering. This is what they put on
> workshop floors, and if correctly applied it?s tough, easy to clean and
> durable.
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul Callomon
>
> Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
> ------------------------------
>
> *Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University*
>
> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
> *prc44 at drexel.edu <prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> *On Behalf Of *Lennart
> Lennuk
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 15, 2021 5:28 AM
> *To:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* [Nhcoll-l] FW: what materials use in collection storage rooms
> for walls, floors and ceilings.
>
>
>
> *External.*
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> Because I had no answers to my questions, I try again J
>
> Two question on the material use for collection storage room walls, floors
> and ceilings:
>
>
>
> 1)      Is using PVC-flooring in fluid collection and in areas where
> people work with collections ok?
>
> 2)      Our new collections floors are planned to have concrete floors
> treated with Pentra-Guard
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fconvergentconcrete.com%2Fproducts%2Fpentra-guard-ext&data=04%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7Caba9ae9758194df0be4508d91783b8d8%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C637566676793314125%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=aRTilIC5V8PBXij8FcJH%2F5bIMLRQIaz%2Fd6uY2Af%2FZWE%3D&reserved=0>.
> In description I read it is based on lithium.
>
>
>
> Some of the information I have found this far:
>
>
>
> I found this in NPS Museum Handbook:
>
> ?Treat concrete floors with a sodium silicate sealing/curing agent. This
> hardens and increases the density of the surface of the concrete, helping
> protect it from cracking, dusting, and other damage. The floor should be
> easy to clean without the use of chemical cleaners or water?
>
>
>
> And also an short introduction of an article about lithium chloride:
>
> ?UTILIZATION OF LITHIUM CHLORIDE SOLUTIONS FOR CONTROLLING RELATIVE
>
> HUMIDITY IN MICRO ENVIRONMENTS
>
> BEYER, SARAH R. and STEPHEN L. WILLIAMS, Museum of Texas Tech University,
> Lubbock,
>
> Texas 79409-3191
>
> The utilization of saturated salt solutions at known temperatures has been
> used by the museum
>
> community for establishing desired relative humidities in
> microenvironments. To alleviate the
>
> expense of acquiring different chemicals, the authors investigated the
> feasibility of using different
>
> concentrations of lithium chloride for establishing and controlling
> relative humidity. Much of the
>
> information about the relationship between concentration and relative
> humidity was extrapolated
>
> from the literature. Subsequent testing demonstrated the usefulness of
> this information and how it
>
> might be used for initiating controlled changes in microenvironments.?
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Lennart Lennuk
>
> Head of collections
>
> Estonian Museum of Natural History
>
> (+372) 6603404, 56569916
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From HawksC at si.edu  Tue May 18 07:15:59 2021
From: HawksC at si.edu (Hawks, Catharine)
Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 11:15:59 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Call for papers
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB5111A68A809890B6C76CAF67BF2C9@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Collections: A Journal for Museum and Archives Professionals

<https://journals.sagepub.com/metrics/cjx>https://journals.sagepub.com/pb-assets/cmscontent/CJX/CJX_CFP_Feb2020-1582916998127.pdf



Catharine Hawks (she, her, hers)
Conservator
Collections Program
MRC 170 Rm M85-J
National Museum of Natural History
10th Street & Constitution Ave NW
Washington DC 20560
w 202.633.0835 or 4041  c 703 200 4370
hawksc at si.edu<mailto:hawksc at si.edu>

SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY
Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/nmnh.fanpage/>  |  Twitter<https://twitter.com/NMNH>  |  Instagram<https://www.instagram.com/smithsoniannmnh/>



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From temig at culturalheritage.org  Tue May 18 13:44:18 2021
From: temig at culturalheritage.org (Tiffani Emig)
Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:44:18 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Connecting to Collections Care Needs Survey
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB508911CA6843C71AA3386531D92C9@BL0PR01MB5089.prod.exchangelabs.com>

As the Foundation for Advancement in Conservation plans for the future of our Connecting to Collections Care program, we want to hear from you. Which collections care topics do you want to learn more about? How can Connecting to Collections Care help small and mid-sized museums care for collections? Let us know by taking this 10-15 minute survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/C2C-21B.

We know your time is valuable, so as a small token of appreciation for your time and insights, we'll select three survey respondents to receive a free registration for a Connecting to Collections Care course (a $149 value). We thank you in advance for your participation!

Tiffani Emig
Programs Director & Administrative Manager
(she/her/hers)

foundation for advancement in conservation
Protecting Cultural Heritage

temig at culturalheritage.org<mailto:temig at culturalheritage.org>
(t) 202.750.3346 | (f) 202.452.9328
727 15th St NW | Suite 500 | Washington, DC | 20005
culturalheritage.org<https://www.culturalheritage.org/> | @conservators<https://twitter.com/@conservators> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/aiconservation/>

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From ekrimmel at gmail.com  Wed May 19 09:19:26 2021
From: ekrimmel at gmail.com (Erica Krimmel)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 06:19:26 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Please join us next Wednesday, May 26,
 for a webinar on entomology digitization workflows
Message-ID: <CAFnTmHwgN-qQRGQohHS97URca6xmhGMwq3i2bPjaD1UqUqCi8A@mail.gmail.com>

Please join us on *Wednesday, May 26, 2:00-3:00pm Eastern* for a
webinar on *BugFlow:
A Community-Driven Repository for Entomology Digitization Resources.*

After 10 years of concentrated efforts in entomological collections
digitization, the BugFlow group is updating entomology digitization
workflow modules and publishing them as a versionable resource on
GitHub (*https://entcollnet.github.io/BugFlow
<https://entcollnet.github.io/BugFlow>*). In addition to updating these
modules, BugFlow is capturing the methods and practices used to do this
work and incorporate new versioning and metadata practices for workflows
developed using these modules. The GitHub repository
(*https://github.com/EntCollNet/BugFlow
<https://github.com/EntCollNet/BugFlow>*) will serve as a central
clearinghouse for exemplar digitization workflows, and the BugFlow group
will endeavor to produce versions in multiple languages to support wider
adoption and ease-of-use. BugFlow aims to improve the sustainability of
digitization activities, and reduce duplication of effort in the
development of new workflows. Join BugFlow presenters for a webinar that
will include an overview of the project as well as a demo of how you can
contribute by adding your own institution-specific workflows to the GitHub
repository. BugFlow encourages participation in this initiative from
contributors globally, and those who would like to be involved should
contact the group by joining the GitHub repository.

This event is brought to you by iDigBio and the Terrestrial Parasite
Tracker TCN. More information, including the Zoom link and a recording
posted after this event, can be found on the announcement page here:
*https://www.idigbio.org/content/bugflow-community-driven-repository-entomology-digitization-resources
<https://www.idigbio.org/content/bugflow-community-driven-repository-entomology-digitization-resources>.*

Erica Krimmel

Digitization Resource Coordinator
Integrated Digitized Biocollections (iDigBio)
Florida State University
ekrimmel at fsu.edu
(619) 876-3794
ORCID 0000-0003-3192-0080
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From voraghl at gmail.com  Thu May 20 03:22:19 2021
From: voraghl at gmail.com (Sebastien Enault)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 09:22:19 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Mounting specimens in jars
Message-ID: <CABi6RTumsthYGqTBO90XT8z2Zb_Xp4_q8foPSzO6WXHkpvZyLg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,
A couple of colleagues at a nearby museum are looking to mount several
specimens in jars. They're a mix of small vertebrates and invertebrates. At
the present time, I'm not sure if they have made up their mind between
ethanol and kaiserling solutions. What I do know is that they intend to use
a glass backing plate and nylon wire to attach the specimens to the plate.
We were wondering if anyone had any input regarding the long term effects
of both solutions on the nylon wire, and conversely, of the nylon wire on
the solutions and specimens, and told them I would ask here. Otherwise I'll
just direct them to the celloidin adhesive described in J.E. Simmon
reference book.
Thanks a lot,
S. Enault
======================
Sebastien Enault, PhD
www.kraniata.com
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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Thu May 20 03:46:03 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 08:46:03 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Mounting specimens in jars
In-Reply-To: <CABi6RTumsthYGqTBO90XT8z2Zb_Xp4_q8foPSzO6WXHkpvZyLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABi6RTumsthYGqTBO90XT8z2Zb_Xp4_q8foPSzO6WXHkpvZyLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9BE7797E-30C0-41DB-A077-502C5378DBB9@btinternet.com>

Hi Sebastian,

If you?re going to use the celloidin mounting technique - which requires no monofilaments or hole drilling through glass, then the preservative must be alcohol, it won?t work for Kaiserling 3. 

In my experience I have known of no interaction between nylon monofilament and either of these preservatives.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com



> On 20 May 2021, at 08:22, Sebastien Enault <voraghl at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> A couple of colleagues at a nearby museum are looking to mount several specimens in jars. They're a mix of small vertebrates and invertebrates. At the present time, I'm not sure if they have made up their mind between ethanol and kaiserling solutions. What I do know is that they intend to use a glass backing plate and nylon wire to attach the specimens to the plate. We were wondering if anyone had any input regarding the long term effects of both solutions on the nylon wire, and conversely, of the nylon wire on the solutions and specimens, and told them I would ask here. Otherwise I'll just direct them to the celloidin adhesive described in J.E. Simmon reference book.
> Thanks a lot,
> S. Enault
> ======================
> Sebastien Enault, PhD
> www.kraniata.com
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


From Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee  Thu May 20 09:11:43 2021
From: Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee (Joosep Sarapuu)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 13:11:43 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
Message-ID: <bf889c8eea554b578da2d403c225349a@loodusmuuseum.ee>

Dear all,

I have a question about fluid preservation correction.

1.       I have three samples of animals in 96% EtOH right now, but i know that the best for DNA would be 75% EtOH. Can i just dilute this to the right amount or i have to wash it in destilled water and then step by step to 75% EtOH?

2.       I have one animal in denaturated EtOH. This one i have to wash and then also step by step to 75% normal EtOH?


Sincerely,
Joosep Sarapuu

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From Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk  Thu May 20 14:51:00 2021
From: Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk (Julian Carter)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 18:51:00 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
In-Reply-To: <bf889c8eea554b578da2d403c225349a@loodusmuuseum.ee>
References: <bf889c8eea554b578da2d403c225349a@loodusmuuseum.ee>
Message-ID: <CWLP123MB2754521F4B7FC7758B5FBC7DB42A9@CWLP123MB2754.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi Joosep,

96% Ethanol (with no additives) will actually be better for DNA preservation as it effectively dehydrates the specimen and reduces hydrolytic effects. So I???d keep them in the 96% EtOH. ???Cold and dry??? tends to be best for biomolecule preservation.

As to the denatured EtOH ??? then probably best to transfer into equivalent absolute ethanol. The ???denaturant??? used can be very variable though usually something like MEK or Methanol, both of which are better avoided with DNA samples.

Hope that helps.

All the best,

Jules


Julian Carter (he/him)
Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk>
julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter
Twitter: @NatHistConserve
Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074





From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Joosep Sarapuu
Sent: 20 May 2021 14:12
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

Dear all,

I have a question about fluid preservation correction.

  1.  I have three samples of animals in 96% EtOH right now, but i know that the best for DNA would be 75% EtOH. Can i just dilute this to the right amount or i have to wash it in destilled water and then step by step to 75% EtOH?
  2.  I have one animal in denaturated EtOH. This one i have to wash and then also step by step to 75% normal EtOH?


Sincerely,
Joosep Sarapuu


YMWADIAD
Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.
Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei 
sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.

DISCLAIMER
We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.
E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.

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From abentley at ku.edu  Thu May 20 14:52:07 2021
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 18:52:07 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
Message-ID: <9FE4BEC2-A564-4CA3-88FD-72CF6288AB41@ku.edu>

Julian

That is presuming that the specimens were not first fixed in formalin before being placed in 95% ethanol.

Andy

     A  :                A  :               A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                  V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>

     A  :                A  :                A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                   V


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of "Julian uk>" <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
Date: Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 1:51 PM
To: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>, "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

Hi Joosep,

96% Ethanol (with no additives) will actually be better for DNA preservation as it effectively dehydrates the specimen and reduces hydrolytic effects. So I?d keep them in the 96% EtOH. ?Cold and dry? tends to be best for biomolecule preservation.

As to the denatured EtOH ? then probably best to transfer into equivalent absolute ethanol. The ?denaturant? used can be very variable though usually something like MEK or Methanol, both of which are better avoided with DNA samples.

Hope that helps.

All the best,

Jules


Julian Carter (he/him)
Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk>
julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FJulian_Carter&data=04%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C9cef566e7936499ec61408d91bc03c07%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637571334730590915%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=WCKxq29hI2Ktzo794XHR0SvqvlZfdiV2NTWSfG1AQuk%3D&reserved=0>
Twitter: @NatHistConserve
Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074





From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Joosep Sarapuu
Sent: 20 May 2021 14:12
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

Dear all,

I have a question about fluid preservation correction.

  1.  I have three samples of animals in 96% EtOH right now, but i know that the best for DNA would be 75% EtOH. Can i just dilute this to the right amount or i have to wash it in destilled water and then step by step to 75% EtOH?
  2.  I have one animal in denaturated EtOH. This one i have to wash and then also step by step to 75% normal EtOH?


Sincerely,
Joosep Sarapuu






YMWADIAD
Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.



Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei
sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.







DISCLAIMER



We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.



E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.





________________________________



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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Thu May 20 18:09:42 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 23:09:42 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
In-Reply-To: <9FE4BEC2-A564-4CA3-88FD-72CF6288AB41@ku.edu>
References: <9FE4BEC2-A564-4CA3-88FD-72CF6288AB41@ku.edu>
Message-ID: <7BC3E93A-F43D-4609-BD1C-A96EF1313E76@btinternet.com>

I don?t think that a fixation in formalin can alter DNA for a few days provided the samples is transferred into 96% EtOH as soon as possible after fixation and that no formaldehyde is still present (via the sample) in the preservative fluid. I am unsure of there is a critical level for formalin presence that might compromise DNA.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 20 May 2021, at 19:52, Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu> wrote:
> 
> Julian
>  
> That is presuming that the specimens were not first fixed in formalin before being placed in 95% ethanol.
>  
> Andy
>  
>      A  :                A  :               A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                  V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
> Dyche Hall
> 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> USA
>  
> Tel: (785) 864-3863
> Fax: (785) 864-5335 
> Email: abentley at ku.edu  
> http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu
>  
>      A  :                A  :                A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                   V
>  
>  
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of "Julian uk>" <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
> Date: Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 1:51 PM
> To: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>, "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>  
> Hi Joosep,
>  
> 96% Ethanol (with no additives) will actually be better for DNA preservation as it effectively dehydrates the specimen and reduces hydrolytic effects. So I?d keep them in the 96% EtOH. ?Cold and dry? tends to be best for biomolecule preservation.
>  
> As to the denatured EtOH ? then probably best to transfer into equivalent absolute ethanol. The ?denaturant? used can be very variable though usually something like MEK or Methanol, both of which are better avoided with DNA samples.
>  
> Hope that helps.
>  
> All the best,
>  
> Jules
>  
>  
> Julian Carter (he/him)
> Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
> julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk
> julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter
> Twitter: @NatHistConserve
> Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Joosep Sarapuu
> Sent: 20 May 2021 14:12
> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>  
> Dear all,
>  
> I have a question about fluid preservation correction.
> 	? I have three samples of animals in 96% EtOH right now, but i know that the best for DNA would be 75% EtOH. Can i just dilute this to the right amount or i have to wash it in destilled water and then step by step to 75% EtOH?
> 	? I have one animal in denaturated EtOH. This one i have to wash and then also step by step to 75% normal EtOH?
>  
>  
> Sincerely,
> Joosep Sarapuu
>  
>  
>  
> YMWADIAD
> Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.
>  
> Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei 
> sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.
>  
>  
>  
> DISCLAIMER
>  
> We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.
>  
> E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.
>  
>  
>  
> 
> Scanned by FuseMail.
> _______________________________________________
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> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


From Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk  Thu May 20 18:55:52 2021
From: Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk (Julian Carter)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 22:55:52 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
In-Reply-To: <7BC3E93A-F43D-4609-BD1C-A96EF1313E76@btinternet.com>
References: <9FE4BEC2-A564-4CA3-88FD-72CF6288AB41@ku.edu>,
 <7BC3E93A-F43D-4609-BD1C-A96EF1313E76@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CWLP123MB27546F4781811E49E4195D8FB42A9@CWLP123MB2754.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Any fixation in formalin will have a notable effect on the viability of the DNA for later research, even for a few days. There are a complex mix of factors occurring such as crosslinking effects, hydrolytic degradation, the acidity of a solution altering conformations and functional group arrangements etc. Most damage to the DNA will occur at point of death of the organism, how quickly it is preserved, and how it is preserved. Thus Andy's comment rightly points out that subsequent fixation and preservation treatments may have already subsequently effected the quality of the preserved DNA.

Cheers

Jules

Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk>
julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter
Twitter: @NatHistConserve
Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074

________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
Sent: 20 May 2021 23:09
To: Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>; Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

I don?t think that a fixation in formalin can alter DNA for a few days provided the samples is transferred into 96% EtOH as soon as possible after fixation and that no formaldehyde is still present (via the sample) in the preservative fluid. I am unsure of there is a critical level for formalin presence that might compromise DNA.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>




> On 20 May 2021, at 19:52, Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu> wrote:
>
> Julian
>
> That is presuming that the specimens were not first fixed in formalin before being placed in 95% ethanol.
>
> Andy
>
>      A  :                A  :               A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                  V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
> Dyche Hall
> 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> USA
>
> Tel: (785) 864-3863
> Fax: (785) 864-5335
> Email: abentley at ku.edu
> http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu
>
>      A  :                A  :                A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                   V
>
>
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of "Julian uk>" <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
> Date: Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 1:51 PM
> To: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>, "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>
> Hi Joosep,
>
> 96% Ethanol (with no additives) will actually be better for DNA preservation as it effectively dehydrates the specimen and reduces hydrolytic effects. So I?d keep them in the 96% EtOH. ?Cold and dry? tends to be best for biomolecule preservation.
>
> As to the denatured EtOH ? then probably best to transfer into equivalent absolute ethanol. The ?denaturant? used can be very variable though usually something like MEK or Methanol, both of which are better avoided with DNA samples.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> All the best,
>
> Jules
>
>
> Julian Carter (he/him)
> Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
> julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk
> julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter
> Twitter: @NatHistConserve
> Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Joosep Sarapuu
> Sent: 20 May 2021 14:12
> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>
> Dear all,
>
> I have a question about fluid preservation correction.
>        ? I have three samples of animals in 96% EtOH right now, but i know that the best for DNA would be 75% EtOH. Can i just dilute this to the right amount or i have to wash it in destilled water and then step by step to 75% EtOH?
>        ? I have one animal in denaturated EtOH. This one i have to wash and then also step by step to 75% normal EtOH?
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Joosep Sarapuu
>
>
>
> YMWADIAD
> Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.
>
> Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei
> sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER
>
> We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.
>
> E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.
>
>
>
>
> Scanned by FuseMail.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

YMWADIAD
Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.
Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei 
sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.

DISCLAIMER
We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.
E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.

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From voraghl at gmail.com  Fri May 21 03:12:01 2021
From: voraghl at gmail.com (Sebastien Enault)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 09:12:01 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Mounting specimens in jars
In-Reply-To: <9BE7797E-30C0-41DB-A077-502C5378DBB9@btinternet.com>
References: <CABi6RTumsthYGqTBO90XT8z2Zb_Xp4_q8foPSzO6WXHkpvZyLg@mail.gmail.com>
 <9BE7797E-30C0-41DB-A077-502C5378DBB9@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CABi6RTuF1godA35epQa6R4buZ92+BX0VY-A=NJ_cqF6ELr4dCw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Simon and Erik,
Many thanks for your informative reply! If they go for the ethanol they
won't have much choice then, but I'll also suggest the cotton thread
mentioned by Erik as an alternative.
All the best,
Sebastien
======================
Sebastien Enault, PhD
www.kraniata.com


On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 9:46 AM Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
wrote:

> Hi Sebastian,
>
> If you?re going to use the celloidin mounting technique - which requires
> no monofilaments or hole drilling through glass, then the preservative must
> be alcohol, it won?t work for Kaiserling 3.
>
> In my experience I have known of no interaction between nylon monofilament
> and either of these preservatives.
>
> With all good wishes, Simon
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>
>
>
> > On 20 May 2021, at 08:22, Sebastien Enault <voraghl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> > A couple of colleagues at a nearby museum are looking to mount several
> specimens in jars. They're a mix of small vertebrates and invertebrates. At
> the present time, I'm not sure if they have made up their mind between
> ethanol and kaiserling solutions. What I do know is that they intend to use
> a glass backing plate and nylon wire to attach the specimens to the plate.
> We were wondering if anyone had any input regarding the long term effects
> of both solutions on the nylon wire, and conversely, of the nylon wire on
> the solutions and specimens, and told them I would ask here. Otherwise I'll
> just direct them to the celloidin adhesive described in J.E. Simmon
> reference book.
> > Thanks a lot,
> > S. Enault
> > ======================
> > Sebastien Enault, PhD
> > www.kraniata.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nhcoll-l mailing list
> > Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> > https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> > Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> > mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> > natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> > society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> > Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Fri May 21 05:00:32 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 10:00:32 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
In-Reply-To: <bdbf7fb4bff34995b48abb6e4431a158@loodusmuuseum.ee>
References: <9FE4BEC2-A564-4CA3-88FD-72CF6288AB41@ku.edu>
 <7BC3E93A-F43D-4609-BD1C-A96EF1313E76@btinternet.com>
 <CWLP123MB27546F4781811E49E4195D8FB42A9@CWLP123MB2754.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <bdbf7fb4bff34995b48abb6e4431a158@loodusmuuseum.ee>
Message-ID: <8D6D2283-1234-425B-B44F-A6E7E0A5D8CE@btinternet.com>

This is interesting.  If, as Jules implies, you fill your frog with formalin and which will slowly diffuse out in the alcohol preservative, that will preserve the specimen nicely but may compromise the DNA (thanks for the update on formalin vs DNA Jules).  But if you ?pseudo-fix? the frog by popping its body into ethanol than the fixation is not permanent.  Dilemma time?
Any recent thoughts on this?

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 21 May 2021, at 08:15, Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee> wrote:
> 
> Dear Julian, Simon and Andrew Charles,
>  
> Thanks for all your answers, they were very helpful.
>  
> One more question appeared when i read your answers: How to collect specimens for fluid preservation? (For example frog). Do i first inject formaline to the body and then put it also to formaline and then when i return to lab I put it in EtOH? Or some better solutions?
>  
> Sincerely,
> Joosep Sarapuu
> Estonian Museum of Natural History
>  
> From: Julian Carter [mailto:Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk] 
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 1:56 AM
> To: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>; Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
> Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>; Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>  
> Any fixation in formalin will have a notable effect on the viability of the DNA for later research, even for a few days. There are a complex mix of factors occurring such as crosslinking effects, hydrolytic degradation, the acidity of a solution altering conformations and functional group arrangements etc. Most damage to the DNA will occur at point of death of the organism, how quickly it is preserved, and how it is preserved. Thus Andy's comment rightly points out that subsequent fixation and preservation treatments may have already subsequently effected the quality of the preserved DNA.
>  
> Cheers
>  
> Jules
>  
> Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
> julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk
> julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter
> Twitter: @NatHistConserve
> Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074
>  
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
> Sent: 20 May 2021 23:09
> To: Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
> Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>; Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>  
> I don?t think that a fixation in formalin can alter DNA for a few days provided the samples is transferred into 96% EtOH as soon as possible after fixation and that no formaldehyde is still present (via the sample) in the preservative fluid. I am unsure of there is a critical level for formalin presence that might compromise DNA.
> 
> With all good wishes, Simon
> 
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
> 
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > On 20 May 2021, at 19:52, Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu> wrote:
> > 
> > Julian
> >  
> > That is presuming that the specimens were not first fixed in formalin before being placed in 95% ethanol.
> >  
> > Andy
> >  
> >      A  :                A  :               A  :
> >  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
> >      V                   V                  V
> > Andy Bentley
> > Ichthyology Collection Manager
> > University of Kansas
> > Biodiversity Institute
> > Dyche Hall
> > 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> > Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> > USA
> >  
> > Tel: (785) 864-3863
> > Fax: (785) 864-5335 
> > Email: abentley at ku.edu  
> > http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu
> >  
> >      A  :                A  :                A  :
> >  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
> >      V                   V                   V
> >  
> >  
> > From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of "Julian uk>" <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
> > Date: Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 1:51 PM
> > To: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>, "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
> >  
> > Hi Joosep,
> >  
> > 96% Ethanol (with no additives) will actually be better for DNA preservation as it effectively dehydrates the specimen and reduces hydrolytic effects. So I?d keep them in the 96% EtOH. ?Cold and dry? tends to be best for biomolecule preservation.
> >  
> > As to the denatured EtOH ? then probably best to transfer into equivalent absolute ethanol. The ?denaturant? used can be very variable though usually something like MEK or Methanol, both of which are better avoided with DNA samples.
> >  
> > Hope that helps.
> >  
> > All the best,
> >  
> > Jules
> >  
> >  
> > Julian Carter (he/him)
> > Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
> > julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk
> > julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter
> > Twitter: @NatHistConserve
> > Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Joosep Sarapuu
> > Sent: 20 May 2021 14:12
> > To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> > Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
> >  
> > Dear all,
> >  
> > I have a question about fluid preservation correction.
> >        ? I have three samples of animals in 96% EtOH right now, but i know that the best for DNA would be 75% EtOH. Can i just dilute this to the right amount or i have to wash it in destilled water and then step by step to 75% EtOH?
> >        ? I have one animal in denaturated EtOH. This one i have to wash and then also step by step to 75% normal EtOH?
> >  
> >  
> > Sincerely,
> > Joosep Sarapuu
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > YMWADIAD
> > Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.
> >  
> > Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei 
> > sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > DISCLAIMER
> >  
> > We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.
> >  
> > E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > Scanned by FuseMail.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nhcoll-l mailing list
> > Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> > https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> > Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> > mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> > natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> > society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> > Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>  
>  
> YMWADIAD
> Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.
>  
> Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei 
> sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.
>  
>  
>  
> DISCLAIMER
>  
> We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.
>  
> E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.
>  
>  
>  
> 
> Scanned by FuseMail.

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From bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de  Fri May 21 07:14:50 2021
From: bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de (Bernhard Leopold Bock)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 13:14:50 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Registry Book/Eingangsbuch/Vermehrungsbuch
Message-ID: <4FmkXG4FMBz1xbC@smtp-intra-04.rz.uni-jena.de>

Dear All,

despite the ongoing digitalisation, and some of you have already mentioned this several times, we are continuing with our analogue entry book/Vermehrungsbuch book. 

Since our current book is of poor quality, I wanted to know where you get your books (in archival Quality?). Some of our old books, which are 200 years old, look better than the newer ones. 




Pic of our historical catalogue, which is still of high quality and decorated with paper marbling, which adds some character (I love that style ? and it doesnt look like pamphlet).

I would also be interested to know if you only have blank pages, or if you have pre-printed lines/columns or date/leg. as preprints e.g.?

I am grateful for any advice,
best regards
Bernd


Bernhard?Bock
Friedrich-Schiller-Universit?t Jena
Institut f?r Zoologie und Evolutionsforschung
mit Phyletischem Museum, Ernst-Haeckel-Haus
und Biologiedidaktik
Erbertstr. 1
07743 Jena
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
Tel.: 03641/949 186
bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de
http://www.phyletisches-museum.uni-jena.de
www.instagram.com/phyletischesmuseum/
https://www.facebook.com/PhyletischesMuseum/
https://twitter.com/phylmuseum?lang=de






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From Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee  Fri May 21 03:15:12 2021
From: Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee (Joosep Sarapuu)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 07:15:12 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
In-Reply-To: <CWLP123MB27546F4781811E49E4195D8FB42A9@CWLP123MB2754.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <9FE4BEC2-A564-4CA3-88FD-72CF6288AB41@ku.edu>,
 <7BC3E93A-F43D-4609-BD1C-A96EF1313E76@btinternet.com>
 <CWLP123MB27546F4781811E49E4195D8FB42A9@CWLP123MB2754.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <bdbf7fb4bff34995b48abb6e4431a158@loodusmuuseum.ee>

Dear Julian, Simon and Andrew Charles,

Thanks for all your answers, they were very helpful.

One more question appeared when i read your answers: How to collect specimens for fluid preservation? (For example frog). Do i first inject formaline to the body and then put it also to formaline and then when i return to lab I put it in EtOH? Or some better solutions?

Sincerely,
Joosep Sarapuu
Estonian Museum of Natural History

From: Julian Carter [mailto:Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 1:56 AM
To: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>; Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>; Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

Any fixation in formalin will have a notable effect on the viability of the DNA for later research, even for a few days. There are a complex mix of factors occurring such as crosslinking effects, hydrolytic degradation, the acidity of a solution altering conformations and functional group arrangements etc. Most damage to the DNA will occur at point of death of the organism, how quickly it is preserved, and how it is preserved. Thus Andy's comment rightly points out that subsequent fixation and preservation treatments may have already subsequently effected the quality of the preserved DNA.

Cheers

Jules

Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk>
julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter
Twitter: @NatHistConserve
Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074

________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
Sent: 20 May 2021 23:09
To: Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>; Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee<mailto:Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

I don?t think that a fixation in formalin can alter DNA for a few days provided the samples is transferred into 96% EtOH as soon as possible after fixation and that no formaldehyde is still present (via the sample) in the preservative fluid. I am unsure of there is a critical level for formalin presence that might compromise DNA.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>




> On 20 May 2021, at 19:52, Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>> wrote:
>
> Julian
>
> That is presuming that the specimens were not first fixed in formalin before being placed in 95% ethanol.
>
> Andy
>
>      A  :                A  :               A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                  V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
> Dyche Hall
> 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> USA
>
> Tel: (785) 864-3863
> Fax: (785) 864-5335
> Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
> http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu
>
>      A  :                A  :                A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                   V
>
>
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of "Julian uk>" <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>>
> Date: Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 1:51 PM
> To: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee<mailto:Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>>, "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>
> Hi Joosep,
>
> 96% Ethanol (with no additives) will actually be better for DNA preservation as it effectively dehydrates the specimen and reduces hydrolytic effects. So I?d keep them in the 96% EtOH. ?Cold and dry? tends to be best for biomolecule preservation.
>
> As to the denatured EtOH ? then probably best to transfer into equivalent absolute ethanol. The ?denaturant? used can be very variable though usually something like MEK or Methanol, both of which are better avoided with DNA samples.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> All the best,
>
> Jules
>
>
> Julian Carter (he/him)
> Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
> julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk>
> julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter
> Twitter: @NatHistConserve
> Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Joosep Sarapuu
> Sent: 20 May 2021 14:12
> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>
> Dear all,
>
> I have a question about fluid preservation correction.
>        ? I have three samples of animals in 96% EtOH right now, but i know that the best for DNA would be 75% EtOH. Can i just dilute this to the right amount or i have to wash it in destilled water and then step by step to 75% EtOH?
>        ? I have one animal in denaturated EtOH. This one i have to wash and then also step by step to 75% normal EtOH?
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Joosep Sarapuu
>
>
>
> YMWADIAD
> Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.
>
> Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei
> sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER
>
> We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.
>
> E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.
>
>
>
>
> Scanned by FuseMail.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.





YMWADIAD
Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.



Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei
sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.







DISCLAIMER



We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.



E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.





________________________________



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From HawksC at si.edu  Fri May 21 08:14:00 2021
From: HawksC at si.edu (Hawks, Catharine)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 12:14:00 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Registry Book/Eingangsbuch/Vermehrungsbuch
In-Reply-To: <4FmkXG4FMBz1xbC@smtp-intra-04.rz.uni-jena.de>
References: <4FmkXG4FMBz1xbC@smtp-intra-04.rz.uni-jena.de>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB5111A6798C5ADD9590492E84BF299@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

The paper from two hundred years ago was cotton rag paper, which can last for centuries. In the 19th century papermaking switched to wood pulp paper with alum rosin sizing, which deteriorates rapidly.

Cathy
Catharine Hawks (she/her/hers)
Conservator
Collections Program
MRC 170 Rm M85-J
National Museum of Natural History
10th Street & Constitution Ave NW
Washington DC 20560
w 202.633.0835 or 4041  c 703 200 4370
hawksc at si.edu<mailto:hawksc at si.edu>

SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY
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From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Bernhard Leopold Bock
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 7:15 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Registry Book/Eingangsbuch/Vermehrungsbuch

External Email - Exercise Caution
Dear All,

despite the ongoing digitalisation, and some of you have already mentioned this several times, we are continuing with our analogue entry book/Vermehrungsbuch book.

Since our current book is of poor quality, I wanted to know where you get your books (in archival Quality?). Some of our old books, which are 200 years old, look better than the newer ones.

[cid:image003.png at 01D74E19.40A23480]


Pic of our historical catalogue, which is still of high quality and decorated with paper marbling, which adds some character (I love that style - and it doesnt look like pamphlet).

I would also be interested to know if you only have blank pages, or if you have pre-printed lines/columns or date/leg. as preprints e.g.?

I am grateful for any advice,
best regards
Bernd


Bernhard Bock
Friedrich-Schiller-Universit?t Jena
Institut f?r Zoologie und Evolutionsforschung
mit Phyletischem Museum, Ernst-Haeckel-Haus
und Biologiedidaktik
Erbertstr. 1
07743 Jena

Tel.: 03641/949 186
bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de<mailto:bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de>

http://www.phyletisches-museum.uni-jena.de<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phyletisches-museum.uni-jena.de%2F&data=04%7C01%7Chawksc%40si.edu%7C383e383adbf74773033408d91c49a502%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637571924911471023%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=rnJi%2FrE%2BgWZ5fRd6uImV4qRgt9d1grlQLXiepxUUAEg%3D&reserved=0>

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[cid:image004.png at 01D74E19.40A23480]






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From neumann at snsb.de  Fri May 21 08:20:23 2021
From: neumann at snsb.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 14:20:23 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Registry Book/Eingangsbuch/Vermehrungsbuch
In-Reply-To: <4FmkXG4FMBz1xbC@smtp-intra-04.rz.uni-jena.de>
References: <4FmkXG4FMBz1xbC@smtp-intra-04.rz.uni-jena.de>
Message-ID: <1d1c1061-a5b2-8579-a96b-3bc9ae1e5ca2@snsb.de>

Dear Bernd,

might be worth contacting Klug conservation in Immenstadt/Allg?u, which 
produce own paper that serves highest conservation propoerties
https://www.klug-conservation.de/

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 21.05.2021 um 13:14 schrieb Bernhard Leopold Bock:
>
> Dear All,
>
> despite the ongoing digitalisation, and some of you have already 
> mentioned this several times, we are continuing with our analogue 
> entry book/Vermehrungsbuch book.
>
> Since our current book is of poor quality, I wanted to know where you 
> get your books (in archival Quality?). Some of our old books, which 
> are 200 years old, look better than the newer ones.
>
> Pic of our historical catalogue, which is still of high quality and 
> decorated with paper marbling, which adds some character (I love that 
> style ? and it doesnt look like pamphlet).
>
> I would also be interested to know if you only have blank pages, or if 
> you have pre-printed lines/columns or date/leg. as preprints e.g.?
>
> I am grateful for any advice,
>
> best regards
>
> Bernd
>
> Bernhard?Bock
>
> Friedrich-Schiller-Universit?t Jena
>
> Institut f?r Zoologie und Evolutionsforschung
>
> mit Phyletischem Museum, Ernst-Haeckel-Haus
>
> und Biologiedidaktik
>
> Erbertstr. 1
>
> 07743 Jena
>
> Tel.: 03641/949 186
> bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de
>
> http://www.phyletisches-museum.uni-jena.de 
> <http://www.phyletisches-museum.uni-jena.de/>
>
> www.instagram.com/phyletischesmuseum/ 
> <http://www.instagram.com/phyletischesmuseum/>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/PhyletischesMuseum/ 
> <https://www.facebook.com/PhyletischesMuseum/>
> https://twitter.com/phylmuseum?lang=de 
> <https://twitter.com/phylmuseum?lang=de>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


-- 


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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From michael.denslow at gmail.com  Fri May 21 08:41:53 2021
From: michael.denslow at gmail.com (Michael Denslow)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 06:41:53 -0600
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] iDigBio Digitization Academy: Introduction to
 Biodiversity Specimen Digitization course
Message-ID: <CAEewEphcG6JSmg3fJ62wicvmEhMvNrQiqV73+gKG6qR2nAkykg@mail.gmail.com>

We are excited to introduce the first professional development opportunity
offered by the iDigBio Digitization Academy: Introduction to Biodiversity
Specimen Digitization.

This free, online course is focused on introducing the creation of digital
data about biodiversity specimens to those who are just beginning this
activity.

The aims of the course are to empower participants with the knowledge and
skills to (1) identify and assess relevant facets of information or
potential information about specimens, (2) identify and implement common
digitization protocols and best practices related to databasing, digital
imaging, and georeferencing, (3) identify downstream uses that are relevant
to digitization decisionmaking, (4) explain basic database design and the
value of Globally Unique Identifiers, (5) identify the major specimen data
management system options and the major differences among them, and (6)
design a digitization project, including quality control and a data
management plan that includes data sharing.

This course is targeted at those already associated with a biodiversity
collection, such as student technicians, collections management
professionals, or curators. The course will be relevant to a diversity of
collection types.  Participants do not need to have prior knowledge of
biodiversity informatics or specialized software.

The course will occur from July 12?15 (Monday?Thursday) between 11 a.m. and
5 p.m. ET (exact times yet to be determined). You can expect to spend three
hours per day in synchronous meetings and as much as two additional hours
of preparation time per day outside of class. So this is about a 20-hour
time commitment. We expect to cap the course at 20 participants and will
make admission decisions based on the relevance of the training to the
future of the applicant?s organization and a desire to engage a diversity
of perspectives. The course will be delivered in English. Those interested
in participating from outside the US are welcome to apply.

You may apply to participate in this course at:
https://forms.gle/YsP8awfKBAzksBSk9. Applications are due by 8 a.m. ET on
Monday, June 7. Should you have any questions, please don't hesitate to
contact Michael Denslow at michael.denslow at gmail.com. This course is
brought to you by iDigBio (https://www.idigbio.org) and will be taught by
Michael Denslow, Erica Krimmel, and Austin Mast.

Watch for an announcement of a second course offering from the iDigBio
Digitization Academy soon. That course will be focused on public engagement
in digitization.

Please consider sharing this announcement with others who might benefit
from it. Thanks!

With best regards,
Austin Mast, Erica Krimmel, and Michael Denslow
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From maru.digi at gmail.com  Fri May 21 12:29:41 2021
From: maru.digi at gmail.com (Mariana Di Giacomo)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 12:29:41 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
In-Reply-To: <MEAPR01MB2678334D221F5F3D477E78BCEE529@MEAPR01MB2678.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR02MB4625F82AE7D35AE7C3C8C48CB8529@BL0PR02MB4625.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <SA2PR08MB6540D9D4A6094181568742EF86529@SA2PR08MB6540.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
 <MEAPR01MB2678334D221F5F3D477E78BCEE529@MEAPR01MB2678.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHKzzYwYfH27ccbh-oDTTYtfFOmbEour9GureAgCqXu4kWU+mw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tonya,

I just want to echo what everyone is saying: freezing good, condensation
bad. So if you freeze them with plastic bags or any other plastic
protection, then the condensation will occur on the protection and not the
eggs. This is a general rule for freezing always. Don't put the
objects/specimens directly into the freezer, enclose them first. And when
they come out, don't take them out of the enclosures right away, wait 24
hours and let them acclimate.

About other materials you shouldn't freeze, there are some that could get
severely damaged by freezing such as bark paintings, glass negatives (and
most glass), fluid specimens, paintings and many other works of art or
historic materials you may have in your collection besides specimens. If
you have any particular questions, don't hesitate to ask. I know you're
trying to move into this new, clean facility and avoid bringing anything
with you, but it is important to think that this risk can get mitigated but
not completely eradicated, so monitoring post move is always a good idea,
so you can treat specific problems that may arise.

Best,
Mariana

*Mariana Di Giacomo, PhD*
*Natural History Conservator, Yale Peabody Museum*
Associate Editor, Collection Forum, SPNHC
Secretary/Communications APOYOnline



El mi?, 12 may 2021 a las 18:52, Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
(<Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>) escribi?:

> Thanks everyone for your responses to this question. It?s an interesting
> point about the potential for some of the writing on the eggs to be water
> soluble. In such a case is something like anoxia or high CO2 not preferable
> to freezing? And yes I guess I do know that the insides of eggs can be
> delicious to things like carpet beetle, and indeed I have seen some old
> evidence of such in our collection. We have 20k+ clutches going on 40k, and
> we are going to move to a new building in a few years. In light of that I
> would like the most practical solution that minimises risk to the egg
> collection but still ensures we aren?t accidentally bringing a pest problem
> with us. But it sounds like the consensus is that freezing would be ok, so
> long as we make sure everything is well sealed in plastic first?
>
>
>
> As a follow on to this, are there any other types of collections (other
> than slides and fluids) that people absolutely don?t freeze?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Tonya
>
>
>
> *From:* Thomas Labedz <tlabedz1 at unl.edu>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 May 2021 10:58 PM
> *To:* Rogers, Steve <RogersS at CarnegieMNH.Org>; Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
> <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* RE: freezing blown eggs
>
>
>
> Tonya
>
> Agreeing with Stephen I?ve seen insects in egg collections. I agree
> strongly with freezing in a plastic container such that condensation does
> not occur directly on the egg when removed from freezer. While having no
> direct evidence I suspect that some inks used for curatorial markings on
> eggs might be water soluble or be poorly bound to the egg surface and
> condensation poses a risk of information loss.
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
> Thomas E. Labedz (Mr.), Collections Manager
>
> Division of Zoology and Division of Botany
>
> University of Nebraska State Museum
>
> Morrill Hall
>
> 645 North 14th Street
> Lincoln, NE 68588-0338
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> *On Behalf Of *Rogers,
> Steve
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 12, 2021 6:13 AM
> *To:* Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>;
> nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
>
>
>
> Non-NU Email
> ------------------------------
>
> Greetings Tonya,
>
>
>
> The entire inside lining of the egg is certainly susceptible to being
> eaten. I blew a series of eggs once and did not put them in my screened in
> drying cabinet. I ended up getting a few phorid flies find their way
> through the holes, breeding and multiplying. I have also seen various small
> beetles inside older eggs in the collection within the genus *Anthrenus*.
> The cotton surrounding the egg set showing past infestations.
>
>
>
> I would recommend freezing them like you would other dry specimens, inside
> plastic so no condensation on the specimens happens after bringing them up
> to room temperature.
>
>
>
> Stephen P. Rogers (Mr.)
>
> Collection Manager of Section of Birds
>
> Carnegie Museum of Natural History
>
> 4400 Forbes Avenue
>
> Pittsburgh PA 15213-4080
>
> Phone: 412-622-3255
>
> Email: rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org
>
> ***************************************************
>
> The views, opinions, and judgments expressed in this message
>
> are solely those of the author. The message contents have not
>
> been reviewed or approved by Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
>
> ***************************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Haff,
> Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 12, 2021 12:35 AM
> *To:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject:* [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for
> pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there
> could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not
> much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places
> for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or
> feedback would be very appreciated!
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Tonya
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dr Tonya Haff
>
> Collection Manager
>
> Australian National Wildlife Collection
>
> National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO
>
> Canberra, Australia
>
> Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)
>
> (+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended
> only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
> confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission,
> dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
> this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient
> is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and
> delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views
> expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From AndersonG at CarnegieMNH.Org  Fri May 21 13:16:48 2021
From: AndersonG at CarnegieMNH.Org (Anderson, Gretchen)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 17:16:48 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs
In-Reply-To: <CAHKzzYwYfH27ccbh-oDTTYtfFOmbEour9GureAgCqXu4kWU+mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB2676989C0A01F44E615DE9F6EE529@ME2PR01MB2676.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR02MB4625F82AE7D35AE7C3C8C48CB8529@BL0PR02MB4625.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <SA2PR08MB6540D9D4A6094181568742EF86529@SA2PR08MB6540.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
 <MEAPR01MB2678334D221F5F3D477E78BCEE529@MEAPR01MB2678.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAHKzzYwYfH27ccbh-oDTTYtfFOmbEour9GureAgCqXu4kWU+mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR02MB6912539F0D609C6D7EFC9049BC299@MN2PR02MB6912.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Let me second Mariana?s, and other statements made in this thread.

Use plastic bags or sheeting to protect your specimens from condensation. Seal the plastic using zip-lock bag, tape, or whatever method you choose. If at all possible, use double layers of plastic.  According to Tom Strang?s research a double layer of plastic will significantly reduce drastic changes in the equal moisture content in the specimen or object.  Allow a minimum of 24 hours after freezing to allow for thawing.

For objects that cannot be frozen ? start with close examination and isolation.  Determine if there is evidence of an infestation, past or present.  Determine if it is active.  Isolate and clean them before moving.

Any questions ? check out MuseumPest.Net   https://museumpests.net/solutions/ .  This is a great resource.

Good luck -
Gretchen

Gretchen Anderson
Conservator
Carnegie Museum of Natural History
5800 Baum Blvd.
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
Andersong at CarnegieMNH.org<mailto:Andersong at CarnegieMNH.org>
(412)665-2607



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Mariana Di Giacomo
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 12:30 PM
To: Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs

Hi Tonya,

I just want to echo what everyone is saying: freezing good, condensation bad. So if you freeze them with plastic bags or any other plastic protection, then the condensation will occur on the protection and not the eggs. This is a general rule for freezing always. Don't put the objects/specimens directly into the freezer, enclose them first. And when they come out, don't take them out of the enclosures right away, wait 24 hours and let them acclimate.

About other materials you shouldn't freeze, there are some that could get severely damaged by freezing such as bark paintings, glass negatives (and most glass), fluid specimens, paintings and many other works of art or historic materials you may have in your collection besides specimens. If you have any particular questions, don't hesitate to ask. I know you're trying to move into this new, clean facility and avoid bringing anything with you, but it is important to think that this risk can get mitigated but not completely eradicated, so monitoring post move is always a good idea, so you can treat specific problems that may arise.

Best,
Mariana

Mariana Di Giacomo, PhD
Natural History Conservator, Yale Peabody Museum
Associate Editor, Collection Forum, SPNHC
Secretary/Communications APOYOnline



El mi?, 12 may 2021 a las 18:52, Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) (<Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>) escribi?:
Thanks everyone for your responses to this question. It?s an interesting point about the potential for some of the writing on the eggs to be water soluble. In such a case is something like anoxia or high CO2 not preferable to freezing? And yes I guess I do know that the insides of eggs can be delicious to things like carpet beetle, and indeed I have seen some old evidence of such in our collection. We have 20k+ clutches going on 40k, and we are going to move to a new building in a few years. In light of that I would like the most practical solution that minimises risk to the egg collection but still ensures we aren?t accidentally bringing a pest problem with us. But it sounds like the consensus is that freezing would be ok, so long as we make sure everything is well sealed in plastic first?

As a follow on to this, are there any other types of collections (other than slides and fluids) that people absolutely don?t freeze?

Thanks!

Tonya

From: Thomas Labedz <tlabedz1 at unl.edu<mailto:tlabedz1 at unl.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2021 10:58 PM
To: Rogers, Steve <RogersS at CarnegieMNH.Org<mailto:RogersS at CarnegieMNH.Org>>; Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: freezing blown eggs

Tonya
Agreeing with Stephen I?ve seen insects in egg collections. I agree strongly with freezing in a plastic container such that condensation does not occur directly on the egg when removed from freezer. While having no direct evidence I suspect that some inks used for curatorial markings on eggs might be water soluble or be poorly bound to the egg surface and condensation poses a risk of information loss.
Thomas

Thomas E. Labedz (Mr.), Collections Manager
Division of Zoology and Division of Botany
University of Nebraska State Museum
Morrill Hall
645 North 14th Street
Lincoln, NE 68588-0338


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Rogers, Steve
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 6:13 AM
To: Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs

Non-NU Email
________________________________
Greetings Tonya,

The entire inside lining of the egg is certainly susceptible to being eaten. I blew a series of eggs once and did not put them in my screened in drying cabinet. I ended up getting a few phorid flies find their way through the holes, breeding and multiplying. I have also seen various small beetles inside older eggs in the collection within the genus Anthrenus. The cotton surrounding the egg set showing past infestations.

I would recommend freezing them like you would other dry specimens, inside plastic so no condensation on the specimens happens after bringing them up to room temperature.

Stephen P. Rogers (Mr.)
Collection Manager of Section of Birds
Carnegie Museum of Natural History
4400 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh PA 15213-4080
Phone: 412-622-3255
Email: rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org<mailto:rogerss at CarnegieMNH.org>
***************************************************
The views, opinions, and judgments expressed in this message
are solely those of the author. The message contents have not
been reviewed or approved by Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
***************************************************

________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 12:35 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freezing blown eggs


Hello all,



I am wondering if any of you have thoughts on freezing egg collections for pest control? I imagine that it is probably ok, but then I wonder if there could be problems to the shell structure. Note I realise that there is not much for museum pests to eat in a blown egg, but there are lots of places for them to hide in and around the their housing. As usual, any thoughts or feedback would be very appreciated!



Cheers,



Tonya



---------------------------------------------------------

Dr Tonya Haff

Collection Manager

Australian National Wildlife Collection

National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO

Canberra, Australia

Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)

(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)





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From abentley at ku.edu  Fri May 21 13:16:57 2021
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 17:16:57 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Don't miss out on the next month's follow-up
 consultation with the scientific collections community on the Digital
 Extended Specimen #DeS
In-Reply-To: <a483b43cb36d0d60edb3a266b.f7f9f75bb9.20210521122843.494aef7132.165f32b7@mail114.atl18.mcdlv.net>
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Invitation to 2nd phase of Digital and Extended Specimen consultation
The alliance will convene a follow up to the consultation in February and March next month. Phase 2 will focus on capturing the infrastructure capabilities needed to support Digital Extended Specimens. Now renamed as Digital Extended Specimens, or ?DeS?.

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Similar to the consultation in February and March, a landing page for the consultation<https://allianceforbio.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a483b43cb36d0d60edb3a266b&id=674ddf9fcc&e=f7f9f75bb9> has been created and is now live on the GBIF community forum<https://allianceforbio.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a483b43cb36d0d60edb3a266b&id=7f3bd8dd34&e=f7f9f75bb9>. If you are not already a registered user of the GBIF community forum, you will need to sign up and join the group<https://allianceforbio.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a483b43cb36d0d60edb3a266b&id=2e1df8c9bc&e=f7f9f75bb9> to contribute to the discussion.

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Pre-register for your preferred intro session time on 15 June 2021:

  *   Session 1<https://allianceforbio.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a483b43cb36d0d60edb3a266b&id=1bd57903f8&e=f7f9f75bb9>: 5:00 UTC
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Consultation topics are:

  *   Well-founded access points and data cyberinfrastructure alignment
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We hope to see you at #DeS round 2.
Sincerely,
Joe Miller


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From abentley at ku.edu  Fri May 21 13:25:07 2021
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 17:25:07 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
In-Reply-To: <bdbf7fb4bff34995b48abb6e4431a158@loodusmuuseum.ee>
References: <9FE4BEC2-A564-4CA3-88FD-72CF6288AB41@ku.edu>
 <7BC3E93A-F43D-4609-BD1C-A96EF1313E76@btinternet.com>
 <CWLP123MB27546F4781811E49E4195D8FB42A9@CWLP123MB2754.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <bdbf7fb4bff34995b48abb6e4431a158@loodusmuuseum.ee>
Message-ID: <0948114E-E296-4394-A62C-136FFEE61738@ku.edu>

Joosep

Yes, standard practice for fixing amphibians, reptiles, fish and anything else that will be ending up in alcohol, is to inject with formalin into all body cavities to ensure goof formalin uptake throughout the body and thereafter submerge in formalin for 2-4 days depending on the size of the specimens.  Obviously, it is advantageous to first remove tissues and preserve however appropriate (liquid nitrogen, 95% ethanol, buffer) before fixation.  Specimens can then be lightly rinsed to remove any excess formalin from the surface of the specimens after which they can be stepped into ever increasing concentrations of ethanol ? 20, 40, 60, 70 or similar.

John Simmons book on herpetological collecting is a great resource here for outlining these techniques:  https://www.amazon.com/Herpetological-Collecting-Collections-Management-3rd/dp/0916984907

Andy

     A  :                A  :               A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                  V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>

     A  :                A  :                A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                   V


From: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>
Date: Friday, May 21, 2021 at 2:15 AM
To: "Julian uk>" <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>, Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>, Andrew Bentley <abentley at ku.edu>
Cc: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

Dear Julian, Simon and Andrew Charles,

Thanks for all your answers, they were very helpful.

One more question appeared when i read your answers: How to collect specimens for fluid preservation? (For example frog). Do i first inject formaline to the body and then put it also to formaline and then when i return to lab I put it in EtOH? Or some better solutions?

Sincerely,
Joosep Sarapuu
Estonian Museum of Natural History

From: Julian Carter [mailto:Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 1:56 AM
To: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>; Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>; Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

Any fixation in formalin will have a notable effect on the viability of the DNA for later research, even for a few days. There are a complex mix of factors occurring such as crosslinking effects, hydrolytic degradation, the acidity of a solution altering conformations and functional group arrangements etc. Most damage to the DNA will occur at point of death of the organism, how quickly it is preserved, and how it is preserved. Thus Andy's comment rightly points out that subsequent fixation and preservation treatments may have already subsequently effected the quality of the preserved DNA.

Cheers

Jules

Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk>
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________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
Sent: 20 May 2021 23:09
To: Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>; Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee<mailto:Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

I don?t think that a fixation in formalin can alter DNA for a few days provided the samples is transferred into 96% EtOH as soon as possible after fixation and that no formaldehyde is still present (via the sample) in the preservative fluid. I am unsure of there is a critical level for formalin presence that might compromise DNA.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.natural-history-conservation.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0b741d987b5d47eeb11808d91c282f3f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637571781207479713%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=qZnLlf22jeGnkYK%2BIztQYnl3%2BvfE9gTvmh8btbCpClI%3D&reserved=0>




> On 20 May 2021, at 19:52, Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>> wrote:
>
> Julian
>
> That is presuming that the specimens were not first fixed in formalin before being placed in 95% ethanol.
>
> Andy
>
>      A  :                A  :               A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                  V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
> Dyche Hall
> 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> USA
>
> Tel: (785) 864-3863
> Fax: (785) 864-5335
> Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
> http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu
>
>      A  :                A  :                A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                   V
>
>
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of "Julian uk>" <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>>
> Date: Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 1:51 PM
> To: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee<mailto:Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>>, "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>
> Hi Joosep,
>
> 96% Ethanol (with no additives) will actually be better for DNA preservation as it effectively dehydrates the specimen and reduces hydrolytic effects. So I?d keep them in the 96% EtOH. ?Cold and dry? tends to be best for biomolecule preservation.
>
> As to the denatured EtOH ? then probably best to transfer into equivalent absolute ethanol. The ?denaturant? used can be very variable though usually something like MEK or Methanol, both of which are better avoided with DNA samples.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> All the best,
>
> Jules
>
>
> Julian Carter (he/him)
> Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
> julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk>
> julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FJulian_Carter&data=04%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0b741d987b5d47eeb11808d91c282f3f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637571781207484703%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=GeW%2Fh6m4%2BCioQgKUCjYEcioA%2FZ4rmFpmK%2FvxSoK5iUY%3D&reserved=0>
> Twitter: @NatHistConserve
> Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Joosep Sarapuu
> Sent: 20 May 2021 14:12
> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>
> Dear all,
>
> I have a question about fluid preservation correction.
>        ? I have three samples of animals in 96% EtOH right now, but i know that the best for DNA would be 75% EtOH. Can i just dilute this to the right amount or i have to wash it in destilled water and then step by step to 75% EtOH?
>        ? I have one animal in denaturated EtOH. This one i have to wash and then also step by step to 75% normal EtOH?
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Joosep Sarapuu
>
>
>
> YMWADIAD
> Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.
>
> Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei
> sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER
>
> We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.
>
> E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.
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> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
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> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
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Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.





YMWADIAD
Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.



Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei
sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.







DISCLAIMER



We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.



E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.





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From jcundiff at oeb.harvard.edu  Mon May 24 09:14:01 2021
From: jcundiff at oeb.harvard.edu (Cundiff, Jessica D.)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 13:14:01 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Invertebrate Paleontology Technician and Preparator at
 the Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University
Message-ID: <MN2PR07MB61570C75666E613D59CA488883269@MN2PR07MB6157.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

The Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University invites applications for the position of Invertebrate Paleontology Technician and Preparator.

Details and application instructions available online at:
https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGnewUI/Search/Home/Home?partnerid=25240&siteid=5341#jobDetails=1573850_5341


Jessica D. Cundiff
Curatorial Associate
Department of Invertebrate Paleontology
Museum of Comparative Zoology
Harvard University
26 Oxford Street
Cambridge, MA 02138
(617) 496-5406
jcundiff at oeb.harvard.edu
http://www.mcz.harvard.edu/Departments/InvertPaleo/

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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Mon May 24 13:59:52 2021
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 17:59:52 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Formalin testing
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB52209AC92DA26545E4982E69C3269@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Folks,

Here in the USA, what do you use to test for formaldehyde in alcohol solutions? We used to have test strips, but I'm having trouble finding something cheap and reliable now.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

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From irenefinkelde at gmail.com  Mon May 24 18:30:51 2021
From: irenefinkelde at gmail.com (Irene Finkelde)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 08:30:51 +1000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Formalin testing
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB52209AC92DA26545E4982E69C3269@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BL0PR01MB52209AC92DA26545E4982E69C3269@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <CANpt6+gpS2xGJ_B6LOCe=qH+118nm9J3r8MXXnn8d_pce9DSAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul

A few years ago I did some research into different methods to test
formaldehyde concentration in fluid preservatives. I tested two brands of
test strips, a commercially available titration kit, and a titration method
(originally developed by Robert Waller and refined very slightly by
myself). The full article will be published in Collection Forum soon.

You could try using the commercially available titration test kit (Hach
Formaldehyde Test Kit: Model FM-1). This can test formaldehyde
concentration in solution within the ranges of either 0.05 - 1% or 0.5% -
10% formaldehyde in solution (terminology is important when using the test
and interpreting the results ? what we often call ?10% formalin? is 4% w/v
formaldehyde gas in water). The manual can be downloaded from the Hach
website if you want to look at the titration method before you purchase it.

The solid reagent supplied with this test kit is insoluble in ethanol,
which is an issue when testing for residual formalin in alcohol solutions
and following the manufacturers instructions. When I tested ethanol
solutions, I adapted the method and I first dissolved the contents of the
reagent sachet in a beaker with 10ml demineralised water and added that to
the sample before titration. Even though the sample was diluted the drops
of titrant were still counted as though each drop represented 0.05%
formaldehyde.

I preferred using titration methods to the test strips, as it is easier to
quantify the results and I found the test strips to be quite time consuming
to get a result, as multiple dilutions can be required.


Happy to discuss with you if you have any questions.


Irene Finkelde

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 4:00 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu> wrote:

> Folks,
>
>
>
> Here in the USA, what do you use to test for formaldehyde in alcohol
> solutions? We used to have test strips, but I?m having trouble finding
> something cheap and reliable now.
>
>
>
> Paul Callomon
>
> Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
> ------------------------------
>
> *Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University*
>
> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
> *prc44 at drexel.edu <prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From chair at natsca.org  Tue May 25 03:39:40 2021
From: chair at natsca.org (Chair NatSCA)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 08:39:40 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Natural Sciences Collections Association conference
 27-28th May - final booking
Message-ID: <CAAkVqPMz3aU6hC__QwUpCVt6weG0KizVJKAMQSD2K-N-UakQRg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all



We are just a few days away from the NatSCA 2021 conference - *#NatSCA2021:
Changing the World: Environmental Breakdown and Natural Science Collections*,
taking place this Thursday and Friday via Zoom. The #NatSCA2021 conference
will explore the role of natural science collections in addressing or
engaging with one of the planet?s biggest issues - environmental breakdown;
as well as sharing other exciting developments from the sector.



You can see the *final programme* for the two days, as well all the
*abstracts *? covering the keynote, main presentations, virtual museum
tours, AGM and lightning talks ? on the conference website:
https://www.natsca.org/natsca-2021



That is also the place to go to book your tickets if you are yet to. Places
are free for NatSCA members ? a promo code to unlock a ticket has been
emailed to members. If you?re a member and don?t receive a code, get in
touch with membership at natsca.org


Of course, new members are welcome, and Personal Membership costs ?20 per
year (which is the same as the conference registration fee for
non-members). You can join up here: http://www.natsca.org/membership



NatSCA has also made a small number of free tickets available for unwaged
non-members who might not otherwise be able to attend. If you order one of
these tickets in error, or are no longer able to attend, please get in
touch with conference at natsca.org to cancel your booking so that someone
else may use the ticket.



All the best

The NatSCA Conference Team

https://www.natsca.org/natsca-2021


Isla Gladstone

Chair, NatSCA

Senior Curator Natural Science, Bristol Museums

@isla_gladstone
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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Tue May 25 03:40:55 2021
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 08:40:55 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Formalin testing
In-Reply-To: <CANpt6+gpS2xGJ_B6LOCe=qH+118nm9J3r8MXXnn8d_pce9DSAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANpt6+gpS2xGJ_B6LOCe=qH+118nm9J3r8MXXnn8d_pce9DSAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50C415CE-E01E-4ED9-8605-B51B235DECFB@btinternet.com>

I have used either a drop of Schiff reagent or Feulgen reagent in a small sample of fluid 

With all good wishes, Simon Moore. 
Sent from my iPhone


> On 24 May 2021, at 23:31, Irene Finkelde <irenefinkelde at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi Paul
> 
> A few years ago I did some research into different methods to test formaldehyde concentration in fluid preservatives. I tested two brands of test strips, a commercially available titration kit, and a titration method (originally developed by Robert Waller and refined very slightly by myself). The full article will be published in Collection Forum soon. 
> 
> You could try using the commercially available titration test kit (Hach Formaldehyde Test Kit: Model FM-1). This can test formaldehyde concentration in solution within the ranges of either 0.05 - 1% or 0.5% - 10% formaldehyde in solution (terminology is important when using the test and interpreting the results ? what we often call ?10% formalin? is 4% w/v formaldehyde gas in water). The manual can be downloaded from the Hach website if you want to look at the titration method before you purchase it. 
> The solid reagent supplied with this test kit is insoluble in ethanol, which is an issue when testing for residual formalin in alcohol solutions and following the manufacturers instructions. When I tested ethanol solutions, I adapted the method and I first dissolved the contents of the reagent sachet in a beaker with 10ml demineralised water and added that to the sample before titration. Even though the sample was diluted the drops of titrant were still counted as though each drop represented 0.05% formaldehyde.
> I preferred using titration methods to the test strips, as it is easier to quantify the results and I found the test strips to be quite time consuming to get a result, as multiple dilutions can be required. 
> 
> Happy to discuss with you if you have any questions. 
> 
> Irene Finkelde 
> 
> On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 4:00 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu> wrote:
>> Folks,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Here in the USA, what do you use to test for formaldehyde in alcohol solutions? We used to have test strips, but I?m having trouble finding something cheap and reliable now.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Paul Callomon
>> 
>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
>> 
>> Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
>> 
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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From Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee  Tue May 25 05:15:04 2021
From: Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee (Joosep Sarapuu)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 09:15:04 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
In-Reply-To: <0948114E-E296-4394-A62C-136FFEE61738@ku.edu>
References: <9FE4BEC2-A564-4CA3-88FD-72CF6288AB41@ku.edu>
 <7BC3E93A-F43D-4609-BD1C-A96EF1313E76@btinternet.com>
 <CWLP123MB27546F4781811E49E4195D8FB42A9@CWLP123MB2754.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <bdbf7fb4bff34995b48abb6e4431a158@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <0948114E-E296-4394-A62C-136FFEE61738@ku.edu>
Message-ID: <5d4b25b488424bca99d7eca796427143@loodusmuuseum.ee>

Dear Andrew Charles and Simon,
Thank you for your informative answers. I will try and see how it goes then.

Sincerely,
Joosep Sarapuu

From: Bentley, Andrew Charles [mailto:abentley at ku.edu]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 8:25 PM
To: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>; Julian Carter <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>; Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

Joosep

Yes, standard practice for fixing amphibians, reptiles, fish and anything else that will be ending up in alcohol, is to inject with formalin into all body cavities to ensure goof formalin uptake throughout the body and thereafter submerge in formalin for 2-4 days depending on the size of the specimens.  Obviously, it is advantageous to first remove tissues and preserve however appropriate (liquid nitrogen, 95% ethanol, buffer) before fixation.  Specimens can then be lightly rinsed to remove any excess formalin from the surface of the specimens after which they can be stepped into ever increasing concentrations of ethanol ? 20, 40, 60, 70 or similar.

John Simmons book on herpetological collecting is a great resource here for outlining these techniques:  https://www.amazon.com/Herpetological-Collecting-Collections-Management-3rd/dp/0916984907

Andy

     A  :                A  :               A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                  V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>

     A  :                A  :                A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
     V                   V                   V


From: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee<mailto:Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>>
Date: Friday, May 21, 2021 at 2:15 AM
To: "Julian uk>" <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>>, Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>, Andrew Bentley <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>>
Cc: "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: RE: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

Dear Julian, Simon and Andrew Charles,

Thanks for all your answers, they were very helpful.

One more question appeared when i read your answers: How to collect specimens for fluid preservation? (For example frog). Do i first inject formaline to the body and then put it also to formaline and then when i return to lab I put it in EtOH? Or some better solutions?

Sincerely,
Joosep Sarapuu
Estonian Museum of Natural History

From: Julian Carter [mailto:Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 1:56 AM
To: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>; Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>; Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee<mailto:Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

Any fixation in formalin will have a notable effect on the viability of the DNA for later research, even for a few days. There are a complex mix of factors occurring such as crosslinking effects, hydrolytic degradation, the acidity of a solution altering conformations and functional group arrangements etc. Most damage to the DNA will occur at point of death of the organism, how quickly it is preserved, and how it is preserved. Thus Andy's comment rightly points out that subsequent fixation and preservation treatments may have already subsequently effected the quality of the preserved DNA.

Cheers

Jules

Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk>
julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FJulian_Carter&data=04%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0b741d987b5d47eeb11808d91c282f3f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637571781207469734%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=dZ92zYc04DPsBM65c8Z8%2BwptUZ1XV6XzZ4TrBpNuWaQ%3D&reserved=0>
Twitter: @NatHistConserve
Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074

________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com<mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com>>
Sent: 20 May 2021 23:09
To: Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>; Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee<mailto:Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction

I don?t think that a fixation in formalin can alter DNA for a few days provided the samples is transferred into 96% EtOH as soon as possible after fixation and that no formaldehyde is still present (via the sample) in the preservative fluid. I am unsure of there is a critical level for formalin presence that might compromise DNA.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.natural-history-conservation.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0b741d987b5d47eeb11808d91c282f3f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637571781207479713%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=qZnLlf22jeGnkYK%2BIztQYnl3%2BvfE9gTvmh8btbCpClI%3D&reserved=0>




> On 20 May 2021, at 19:52, Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>> wrote:
>
> Julian
>
> That is presuming that the specimens were not first fixed in formalin before being placed in 95% ethanol.
>
> Andy
>
>      A  :                A  :               A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                  V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
> Dyche Hall
> 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> USA
>
> Tel: (785) 864-3863
> Fax: (785) 864-5335
> Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
> http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu
>
>      A  :                A  :                A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>      V                   V                   V
>
>
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of "Julian uk>" <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>>
> Date: Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 1:51 PM
> To: Joosep Sarapuu <Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee<mailto:Joosep.Sarapuu at loodusmuuseum.ee>>, "nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>" <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>
> Hi Joosep,
>
> 96% Ethanol (with no additives) will actually be better for DNA preservation as it effectively dehydrates the specimen and reduces hydrolytic effects. So I?d keep them in the 96% EtOH. ?Cold and dry? tends to be best for biomolecule preservation.
>
> As to the denatured EtOH ? then probably best to transfer into equivalent absolute ethanol. The ?denaturant? used can be very variable though usually something like MEK or Methanol, both of which are better avoided with DNA samples.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> All the best,
>
> Jules
>
>
> Julian Carter (he/him)
> Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol / Principal Conservator Natural Sciences
> julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at amgueddfacymru.ac.uk>
> julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk<mailto:julian.carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FJulian_Carter&data=04%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0b741d987b5d47eeb11808d91c282f3f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637571781207484703%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=GeW%2Fh6m4%2BCioQgKUCjYEcioA%2FZ4rmFpmK%2FvxSoK5iUY%3D&reserved=0>
> Twitter: @NatHistConserve
> Ffon/Tel: (+44) 029 20573230 / (+44)07870448074
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Joosep Sarapuu
> Sent: 20 May 2021 14:12
> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid preservation correction
>
> Dear all,
>
> I have a question about fluid preservation correction.
>        ? I have three samples of animals in 96% EtOH right now, but i know that the best for DNA would be 75% EtOH. Can i just dilute this to the right amount or i have to wash it in destilled water and then step by step to 75% EtOH?
>        ? I have one animal in denaturated EtOH. This one i have to wash and then also step by step to 75% normal EtOH?
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Joosep Sarapuu
>
>
>
> YMWADIAD
> Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.
>
> Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei
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>
>
>
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YMWADIAD
Rydym yn croesawu gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cyfathrebu ? chi yn eich iaith ddewisol, boed yn Gymraeg, Saesneg neu?r ddwy, dim ond i chi ein hysbysu. Ni fydd gohebu yn Gymraeg yn peri oedi.



Mae pob neges e-bost a anfonir at neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei
sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig. Sganiwyd y neges hon am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd wirio bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, hysbyswch ni a dileu?r neges. Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau Amgueddfa Cymru. Nid ydym yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon.







DISCLAIMER



We welcome correspondence in Welsh and English, and we will ensure that we communicate with you in the language of your choice, whether that?s English, Welsh or both if you let us know which you prefer. Corresponding in Welsh will not lead to any delay.



E-mail to and from Amgueddfa Cymru is scanned by automated security systems. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use. We can accept no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you receive the message by mistake please inform us and delete it. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of Amgueddfa Cymru. We accept no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message.





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From membership at spnhc.org  Wed May 26 15:43:56 2021
From: membership at spnhc.org (membership at spnhc.org)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 15:43:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] AIC/SPNHC 2021 Annual Meeting - Virtual Collection Tours
 start today!
Message-ID: <1622058236.067124441@apps.rackspace.com>


 


Starting this Wednesday and continuing every Wednesday throughout the remainder of the [ AIC/SPNHC Virtual Annual Meeting ]( https://www.culturalheritage.org/events/annual-meeting/current-meeting ) ? travel to world-class natural history collections without leaving home, with Virtual Collection Tours. Each session consists of three ? 30-minute tours. Join live so you can ask questions of the tour leaders and show your support for their institutions.
All times are listed in Eastern Time. Meeting registration is still open. [ Join SPNHC ]( https://spnhc.org/get-involved/become-a-member/ ) for registration discount. Recorded sessions will available to registrants through October 2021.


Wednesday ? May 26 ? Tour Session 1 ? 6:00 -7:30 PM


6:00 - 6:30 PM - A journey inside the Museo de La Salle, between history and present -  Museo de La Salle Bogot? (MLS-BOG) ? Universidad de La Salle, Bogot? (Colombia)


6:30 - 7:00 PM - Interdisciplinarity with integrated collections: Behind the scenes in UConn's Biodiversity Research Collections -University of Connecticut, Biodiversity Research Collections (US)


7:00 ? 7:30 PM Beyond the shelves: Hidden stories from Herpetology

The American Museum of Natural History (US)


 For detailed tour descriptions and to access the session ?
[ learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week4 ]( https://learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week4 )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday -June 2 ? Tour Session 2 ? 10:00 -11:30 AM


10 - 10:30 AM - Scientific collection serving Malagasy biodiversity and advancement of research - Association Vahatra and Mention of Zoology and Biodiversity Animal, University of Antananarivo (Madagascar)


10:30 - 11:00 AM - The British Geological Survey 'National Geological Repository' ? probably the largest collection of UK geoscience samples
National Geological Repository, National Geoscience Data Centre, British Geological Survey (UK)


11:00 - 11:30 am - 30.000 years underwater: the Arroyo del Vizca?no collection
Universidad de la Rep?blica / SAUCE-P (Uruguay)


For detailed tour descriptions and to access the session ?
[ learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week5 ]( https://learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week5 )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday ? June 9 ? Tour Session 3 ? 6:00 -7:30 PM


6 -6:30 PM - Books and Plants: Dr. George Engelmann and the Origins of the Missouri Botanical Garden
Peter H Raven Library, Missouri Botanical Garden


6:30 - 7:00 PM - An Ongoing Transformation of Storage at the University of Wisconsin Geology Museum
University of Wisconsin Geology Museum


7 -7:30 PM - Pivoting in a Pandemic: The World Ethnology Collections Move at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science
Denver Museum of Nature & Science


For detailed tour descriptions and to access the session ?
[ learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week6 ]( https://learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week6 )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday ? June 16 ? Tour Session 4 ? 10 -11:30 AM


10:00 - 10:30 AM - Virtual tour of the NRF-SAIAB's Collection Division Platform
South African Institute for Aquatic Biodiversity (NRF-SAIAB), Makhanda, South Africa


10:30 - 11:00 AM - The Entomological Collections at National Museums Scotland 
National Museums Scotland


11:00 - 11:30 AM - The Glass Flowers at Harvard University: History and Conservation
Harvard University Herbaria


For detailed tour descriptions and to access the session ?
[ learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week7 ]( https://learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week7 )
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday ? June 23 ? 6-7:30 PM


Maintaining the Dead Plants of the United States National Arboretum
United States National Arboretum, USDA-ARS


6:30 - 7:00 PM - The Age of Reptiles, so close you could touch it
Yale Peabody Museum of Natural History


7:00 - 7:30 PM - The Burke Museum of Natural History and Culture: Behind the Scenes Architectural Concept Enhances Visitor Experiences.
Burke Museum of Natural History and Culture


For detailed tour descriptions and to access the session ?
[ learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week8 ]( https://learning.culturalheritage.org/aic2021-week8 )
 
 
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From gnelson at floridamuseum.ufl.edu  Thu May 27 08:07:01 2021
From: gnelson at floridamuseum.ufl.edu (Nelson,Gil)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 12:07:01 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Agenda Posted: Digital Data Conference 2021
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR2201MB150767C66745DF845FBB3451EE239@BN6PR2201MB1507.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN6PR22MB09301766EE43A80FB6868B1185BD9@BN6PR22MB0930.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <BN6PR22MB0930FE08A75B6EC6C1096B2985B99@BN6PR22MB0930.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <BN6PR2201MB15070C72552C99D79CFCDC91EEB79@BN6PR2201MB1507.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <BN6PR22MB09306D9BBFA7D20995F2AF0185659@BN6PR22MB0930.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <BN6PR22MB093027888F0E6BF64773950F85259@BN6PR22MB0930.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
 <BN6PR2201MB150767C66745DF845FBB3451EE239@BN6PR2201MB1507.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR2201MB1507C682221DFE7278A6742BEE239@BN6PR2201MB1507.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>


[cid:f8197a42-c05c-411a-8749-065281608f6f]

Conference Agenda NOW POSTED:
https://www.idigbio.org/wiki/index.php/5th_Annual_Digital_Data_Conference,_Florida_Museum_of_Natural_History

The Florida Museum of Natural History in collaboration with iDigBio and the Natural Science Collections Alliance are hosting the fifth annual Digital Data in Biodiversity Research Conference virtually, June 7-9. The conference will provide an important opportunity to explore digital data tools, techniques, research protocols, discoveries, and outcomes across all biodiversity research domains. For further information check out the conference announcement page: https://bit.ly/2Hx4Ogi

Visit Eventbrite to Register: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/5th-annual-digital-data-in-biodiversity-research-conference-tickets-114279218218

*Registration fees are optional but encouraged. When registering, those who wish not to make a financial contribution to the conference will have that option. The optional fees are $50.00 for students, post-docs, and emeritus faculty; $100.00 for practicing professionals. Although registration fees are optional, your registration information, even if you opt out of the fee, will allow us to keep you updated about conference activities.

For further information or to ensure that you are on the conference email list, please contact Gil Nelson (gnelson at floridamuseum.ufl.edu) or Jill Goodwin (jgoodwin at floridamuseum.ufl.edu) at iDigBio.

NEW THIS YEAR
BioBlitz: We are pleased to announce the first ever Digital Data BioBlitz<https://www.idigbio.org/content/2021-digital-data-bioblitz> will be conducted virtually June 5-9, 2021 using iNaturalist<https://www.inaturalist.org/>.  To participate, all you need is a smartphone, tablet, or a camera and computer and some time spent outdoors. You may also like to join us for a conference discussion session focused on the increasing relevance of citizen science platforms like iNaturalist as data sources for biodiversity research. Stay tuned for more details on both the bioblitz and discussion session!

Virtual Tours of the Florida Museum of Natural History's collections: Digital collection and imaging tours hosted by Florida Museum staff. Tours included: Environmental Archaeology, Lepidoptera, Vertebrate Paleontology, Ichthyology, Herpetology, Malacology, Mammalogy,  2D & 3D Imaging. See wiki page for dates and times.<https://www.idigbio.org/wiki/index.php/5th_Annual_Digital_Data_Conference,_Florida_Museum_of_Natural_History>


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From droberts at naturemuseum.org  Thu May 27 14:14:46 2021
From: droberts at naturemuseum.org (Dawn Roberts)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 13:14:46 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] taxidermy repair recommendations
Message-ID: <CACy32mu6DoranC=tUYHVQguHos=Y8uKYR9CKF5T90prNkJFbOw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello -- I'm looking for recommendations for individuals in the Chicago
region (or Midwest?) with experience repairing large taxidermy mounts.

Thank you,
Dawn

-- 
Dawn Roberts | Senior Director of Collections
The Chicago Academy of Sciences / Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum
2430 North Cannon Drive, Chicago, IL 60614 | www.naturemuseum.org

Collections Facility and Office
4001 N Ravenswood Avenue, suite 201, Chicago, IL 60613 | 773-755-5125

*The Urban Gateway to Nature and Science*
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From pfinkle at caspercollege.edu  Thu May 27 15:26:22 2021
From: pfinkle at caspercollege.edu (Patti Finkle)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 13:26:22 -0600
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] taxidermy repair recommendations
In-Reply-To: <CACy32mu6DoranC=tUYHVQguHos=Y8uKYR9CKF5T90prNkJFbOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACy32mu6DoranC=tUYHVQguHos=Y8uKYR9CKF5T90prNkJFbOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADOm2XpD6m6WjGrvtjzNF+pC=ghHhtS0fB5JbtQiUx9fHZyggQ@mail.gmail.com>

I just attended a SPNHC session given by a staff member (maybe a taxidermy
conservator?) at the Field Museum. You might reach out to Daniel Kaping
over there.

Patti

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:15 PM Dawn Roberts <droberts at naturemuseum.org>
wrote:

> Hello -- I'm looking for recommendations for individuals in the Chicago
> region (or Midwest?) with experience repairing large taxidermy mounts.
>
> Thank you,
> Dawn
>
> --
> Dawn Roberts | Senior Director of Collections
> The Chicago Academy of Sciences / Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum
> 2430 North Cannon Drive, Chicago, IL 60614 | www.naturemuseum.org
>
> Collections Facility and Office
> 4001 N Ravenswood Avenue, suite 201, Chicago, IL 60613 | 773-755-5125
>
> *The Urban Gateway to Nature and Science*
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>


-- 
Patti Wood Finkle
Director of Museums
~Tate Geological Museum
~Werner Wildlife Museum
Casper College
307-268-3026

Correspondence sent to or from this email address is subject to the Wyoming
Public Records Act and may be disclosed to third parties.
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From blayjorge at gmail.com  Fri May 28 17:21:27 2021
From: blayjorge at gmail.com (Jorge A. Santiago-Blay)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:21:27 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Shipping 4L of ethanol (ca. 100%) and 500 mL of Giemsa
 from PA, USA to CA, USA
Message-ID: <CAGBdDuBmoQ1HMBgPHO0h0X7YoD3Bd6gVvN-ggWJ47-UcBfZEDA@mail.gmail.com>

Shipping 4L of ethanol (ca. 100%) and 500 mL of Giemsa from PA, USA to CA,
USA

Dear Colleagues:

A colleague of mine needs to ship 4L of ethanol (ca. 100%) and 500 mL of
Giemsa from PA, USA to CA, USA. As far as I am aware, no museum specimens
are involved in the shipment. Are there any rules this colleague must be
aware about sending these liquids via post?

In gratefulness for your recommendations, sincerely,

Jorge
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From simmons.johne at gmail.com  Fri May 28 17:51:11 2021
From: simmons.johne at gmail.com (John E Simmons)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:51:11 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Shipping 4L of ethanol (ca. 100%) and 500 mL of
 Giemsa from PA, USA to CA, USA
In-Reply-To: <CAGBdDuBmoQ1HMBgPHO0h0X7YoD3Bd6gVvN-ggWJ47-UcBfZEDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGBdDuBmoQ1HMBgPHO0h0X7YoD3Bd6gVvN-ggWJ47-UcBfZEDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF7GCDb94w+jr1wLyNrJLBQGYmu4pPdXhD2yySJeEH9ODQzYLw@mail.gmail.com>

Both ethanol and methanol (a component of Giemsa) are regulated as
hazardous substances in these quantities, and will have to be packed,
labeled, and shipped in accordance with strict regulations.

You need to check with a potential shipping agency or service (such as the
United States Postal Service, UPS, FedEx) to find the best price for
packing, labeling, and shipping. You can probably find the information you
need online, but it will take some searching, so you might also consider
calling to ask.

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 5:21 PM Jorge A. Santiago-Blay <blayjorge at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Shipping 4L of ethanol (ca. 100%) and 500 mL of Giemsa from PA, USA to CA,
> USA
>
> Dear Colleagues:
>
> A colleague of mine needs to ship 4L of ethanol (ca. 100%) and 500 mL of
> Giemsa from PA, USA to CA, USA. As far as I am aware, no museum specimens
> are involved in the shipment. Are there any rules this colleague must be
> aware about sending these liquids via post?
>
> In gratefulness for your recommendations, sincerely,
>
> Jorge
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From neumann at snsb.de  Sat May 29 03:04:46 2021
From: neumann at snsb.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 09:04:46 +0200
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Shipping 4L of ethanol (ca. 100%) and 500 mL of
 Giemsa from PA, USA to CA, USA
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDb94w+jr1wLyNrJLBQGYmu4pPdXhD2yySJeEH9ODQzYLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGBdDuBmoQ1HMBgPHO0h0X7YoD3Bd6gVvN-ggWJ47-UcBfZEDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF7GCDb94w+jr1wLyNrJLBQGYmu4pPdXhD2yySJeEH9ODQzYLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60835fde-c3ff-0e8d-c0b4-cbfc96294cdd@snsb.de>

... adding to what John said: including the word "limited quantity" or 
"restricted quantity" to your search will show you the allowances / 
exceptions that might be useful. There are different regulations for DGR 
transportation on ground (likely regulated by DOT in the US) and air 
transport (IATA/ICAO). Useful infomration is summarised on the SPNHC 
wiki: 
https://spnhc.biowikifarm.net/wiki/Shipping_and_Handling_of_Dangerous_Goods


However, it might probably be easier purchasing the chemicals online and 
use the contacts details of your colleague who needs them as shipping 
address. The retailer surely? is approved and takes care for 
DGR-shipping that is fully compliant with the regs in place, and the 
shipping costs are presumably lower, because as unknown, uncertified 
shipper you need to calculate extra costs for the DGR-packaging that has 
to be done by registered, certified companies (often found at airports).

Hope that helps
Dirk


Am 28.05.2021 um 23:51 schrieb John E Simmons:
> Both ethanol and methanol (a component of Giemsa) are regulated as 
> hazardous substances in these quantities, and will have to be packed, 
> labeled, and shipped in accordance with strict regulations.
>
> You need to check with a potential shipping agency or service (such as 
> the United States Postal Service, UPS, FedEx) to find the best price 
> for packing, labeling, and shipping. You can probably find the 
> information you need online, but it will take some searching, so you 
> might also consider calling to ask.
>
> --John
>
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> /and/
> Associate Curator of Collections
> Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> Penn State University
> /and/
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 5:21 PM Jorge A. Santiago-Blay 
> <blayjorge at gmail.com <mailto:blayjorge at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Shipping 4L of ethanol (ca. 100%) and 500 mL of Giemsa from PA,
>     USA to CA, USA
>
>     Dear Colleagues:
>
>     A colleague of mine needs to ship?4L of ethanol (ca. 100%) and 500
>     mL of Giemsa from PA, USA to CA, USA. As far as I am aware, no
>     museum specimens are involved in?the shipment. Are there any rules
>     this colleague must be aware about sending these liquids via post?
>
>     In gratefulness for your recommendations, sincerely,
>
>     Jorge
>     _______________________________________________
>     Nhcoll-l mailing list
>     Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>     https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>     <https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>     Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>     mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>     natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>     society. See http://www.spnhc.org <http://www.spnhc.org> for
>     membership information.
>     Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


-- 


Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
M?nchhausenstr. 21
81247 M?nchen

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

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From angela.hornsby at mso.umt.edu  Fri May 28 18:16:18 2021
From: angela.hornsby at mso.umt.edu (Hornsby, Angela)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 22:16:18 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Advice on partial fish voucher options
Message-ID: <MWHPR0101MB310388E8033A8BAB42DD0B35CE229@MWHPR0101MB3103.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping someone has a few minutes to help a mammalogist learn how to deal with fish!

In short, a grad student here is collecting up to 1500 fish this summer for a project on environmental toxins.  Because the fish will be pulled apart to analyze separate tissues, they'll be in poor condition by the time they're in our (the museum's) hands.

My question is whether there is a preferred partial voucher option for fish.  Cleaned skeleton?  Fins / scales / opercula in EtOH?  Since vouchering wasn't in the original research plan, we don't have the capacity to formalin fix the remaining carcasses even if that's the preferred option.  We'll be archiving tissue, regardless.

Thanks in advance,

Angela Hornsby

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Angela Hornsby, Ph.D.
Curator, Philip L. Wright Zoological Museum (UMZM)
Office ISB 322
University of Montana
Phone (406) 243-4743

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