From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Tue Nov  1 03:34:01 2022
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 08:34:01 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Wanted: producer of square "museum" glas for
 exhibitions
In-Reply-To: <22DAE46D-5B28-4E39-9AE3-9606DD1F015E@btinternet.com>
References: <c72ae7a526144c758d7514aca09e7d83@snm.ku.dk>
 <638b4873-b0ed-dc5f-93ab-c91358637f65@leibniz-lib.de>
 <9dae0676-5f80-87cc-d682-3c454298e418@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <015C44C7-96BB-4BCD-AD30-2F888B233D08@btinternet.com>
 <0ff514e8-0b99-6b7b-015e-4f3624ea901a@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <22DAE46D-5B28-4E39-9AE3-9606DD1F015E@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <567f5d44-233e-9db2-ce93-9b65f18cb31e@leibniz-lib.de>

Hi Simon (and Fabian),

teaming up for placing orders this is what we usually do with orders placed at St?lzle, because they start producing only if the entire order (200 jars) is sold right after production - they no longer but them on stock.

For the rectangular tanks Fabian referred to in his Neubert-Glas link, this likely refers to a glass producer in the Czech Republic. The container walls towards to edges tend to be very thin (sometimes less then 1mm), and usually these tanks also do not have a plan surface grinding. If you ask a company to do this, you loose further material making it more difficult to seal the container (even if you apply a permanent seal).

The soda-lime glassware that you can buy at retailers such as depot or others is of low quality. This applies for cylinders and rectangular containers. We once bought some tall glass flower vases (80x25 cm), but the glass has a very high, tinny sound. Leaching of the surface was observable after few years.

For current prices, Simon, they dramatically climbed after the gas shortage in Europe after the Russian invasion. The prices for the large cylinders (30x30 cm) I mentioned earlier jumped from 360, -Eur to 520,- last year, and prices climbed further by 15-20%.

Lessons learnt over the past years however tell, that high quality glassware considerably reduces staff time for maintenance and monitoring AND keeps the specimen save in the long run. Compromises usually have a shorter life span, and required replacements usually do not get cheaper over the years, especially if you need large/tall jars.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 31.10.2022 um 11:14 schrieb Simon Moore:

Many thanks Fabian and I suspected as much.  Sometimes museums have to form a p[urchasing syndicate with others to buy large numbers but the accountants find it too complicated!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>






On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:58, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de><mailto:info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de> wrote:

Dear Simon,

yes, the lid overlaps the edge. I think that if one is paying more that 100 Euros for a Jar, this should not happen. But since they at least offer the jars, its something to live with and since they are normal sodalime floatglass plates it can be grinded off very easely.

And the price is just because of the small demand. DWK sells their "normal" labglass product for very good prices, but these are made in gigantic masses, so they can take less price for them. The only way of getting lower prices in in asking for a very big load of jars, this will push down the price. But I'm talking about thousands of jars at least. So in the end it doesn't mater if its DWK, Stoelzle, SIMAX or whatever big Glassfactory. They will all do it, since its technically possible, but they will make a mold, and use specific made tools, so they need a mass of production that covers the costs of making these, then the price is lower.



All the best,

Am 31.10.22 um 10:47 schrieb Simon Moore:


Many thanks for that update Fabian!  The DWK jars are just unaffordable now for most museums so it?s good to know that there are other and cheaper suppliers.  I didn?t understand what you meant by' the lid defers bit from the jar? - slightly overlaps the edge of the jar?

I?m glad to see that these jars are being made again and hopefully the DWK range will come down to a more realistic level!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,


www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>







On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:12, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de><mailto:info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 wrote:

Dear Mikkel,

Dirk is almost correct about the battery jars. Though they are not made or sold anymore as battery jars, if you are lucky you can find some at some local house furnishing store. I found some very nice rectangular jars at "Dille & Kamille" a few weeks back in Belgium while i was there for holidays. Its a huge dutch franchise, so maybe they have some store in Denmark as well. But its probable that other stores of this sort run this kind of jars as well. For me it was great because they sold the jars as retail for only 2 Euros each. Its not the best jar, since it has some strong curves made by the uneven melted glass, since these jars are molded in a cast. But this goes for all battery jars, even the new ones sold by DWK (Schott was bought by Duran long time ago and now Duran runs under the name DWK, since they joined with Wheaton and Kimble, other glassfactories).

Here are the ones form Duran or DWK:
https://www.dwk.com/duran-museum-jar-with-ground-glass-plate


They are pretty expensive, and the Lid is not very nice, since it defers a bit from the jar, so you should grind down the edges. But they are made of borosilicate, so excelent glass quality (not the lid!). Prices go between 70-150 Euro per jar.

There are two German suppliers that sell some square sodalime jars as well (around 20-50 Euro each):

-
https://www.assistent.eu/en/product/specimen-jars-museum-jars-made-of-clear-glass-with-ground-cover-plate/


-
https://www.neubert-glas.de/laborglas/onlineshop/katalog.php?KATfrom=suche&SearchText=pr%E4parat&struc=1_995727484085_1030342896125_1005301727684_1515949502601&kat=1023362157218&PHPSESSID=1effb50f3b77f3e7035b5480d4f6ce4b
 (german only.. I suggest you call them for more information)

The problem and this goes as well for the borosilicate and the cheap house furnishing store jars, is that the sizes are very limited. So usually very small and nothing compared with the pretty big sizes you showed in the picture. These are almost impossible to get new.



So there are actually just 2 solutions if you insist in big sized square jars: One is to ask at some lab-glassblower factory. There a big jar can costs arround 500-700 Euros each. I just did some calculating for a project I'm working on. So they do exist! The jars are welded of plain borosilicate glassplates, so there is no unevenness as in the molded jars. The welding in the corner can be seen though, its less smooth as in the battery jars. But not really a problem. Its just the immense costs.

The other way is to ask at other nat. hist. institutions. Some have a big "stash" of old jars that may be sold or exchanged for a favor or whatever. Maybe you are lucky and they will just donate them. It's they only thing i can think of that excludes a very big investment. Besides looking for this jars in local second-hand internet sites. Sometimes there you are lucky too.



If you need more info about Jars (cylindical too) just contact me directly. I have been dealing with this topic for a long time and have made some good contacts, even within DWK.



All the best in the search!



Am 28.10.22 um 14:53 schrieb Dirk Neumann:



Dear Mikkel,

the historic battery jars are no longer produced; alternatively you can use Schott Borosilicate tubes which can be customised in diameter and length (5 cm to 35 cm and up to 2.0 tall). You might have seen the tall wide jar I posted a few days back. But for the collection in Munich they produced tall wide cyclinders (25 cm x 1,0 m) for the Australian lungfishes and Arapaima

These glass cylinders have less tension within the glass and are more stable against temperature and humidity shifts (the battery jars can crack if the temperature e.g. drops within 2-3 days to below 14?C).

One producer is Ga?ner Glastechnik in Munich; I have been working with them for many years.

You can also check directly with Schott; there is a catalogue, but this is not openly available. But they still produce specimen jars.

The also did some rectangular containers, but smaller ones (approx. 20 cm high and wide).

The other source might be St?lzle Oberglas in Vienna, but usually they only start production if the order is above 200 containers (in the past museums teamed up for orders).


Hope this helps
Dirk



Am 28.10.2022 um 14:27 schrieb Mikkel H?egh Post:



Hi

Here at the Natural History Museum of Denmark we are preparing new exhibitions opening 2025. We need additional square museum glass for wet specimen display -we have a bunch (an example below), but need more sizes. I wonder if any (preferable European) company produce such?

Best regards,



Mikkel H?egh Post

Samlingsmedarbejder, konservator cand.scient.



Statens Naturhistoriske Museum

Zoologisk Museum

Universitetsparken 15

2100 Kbh.?



MOB 60 74 10 25


mhpost at snm.ku.dk<mailto:mhpost at snm.ku.dk>


Profil



  <image001.jpg>



S?dan beskytter vi persondata











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Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.





--
****

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Collection Manager, Hamburg

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Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
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Dirk Neumann
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20146 Hamburg
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Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See

http://www.spnhc.org

 for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.




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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See
http://www.spnhc.org
 for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--

Tel: +49 (0) 1573 2778729

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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
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--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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From bayshark at exemail.com.au  Tue Nov  1 04:07:10 2022
From: bayshark at exemail.com.au (bayshark at exemail.com.au)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 19:07:10 +1100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Archive paper
Message-ID: <E5DE4F4A24B64F29A23C8FAEC53E6EBF@RicardoPC>

On 1 Nov 2022, at 05:05, Feedback <feedback at riteintherain.com> wrote:

? 

Hi Ricardo,

Thank you for reaching out to us. Yes, both our? rite-in-the ?rain? paper  20# and 32# stocks meet the criteria to be considered archival. They qualify under the standards from ANSI/NISO. (They qualify under Z39.48-1992 <https://www.niso.org/publications/z3948-1992-r2009-permanence-paper>  (R2002).)

Please let me know if you have any other questions. Have a great day!

Warm regards,

-----------------------------------

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How can we help you?: Is Rite in the rain paper 120 g/m2 (.0055 Caliper) archive paper quality?

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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  1 04:38:10 2022
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 08:38:10 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Wanted: producer of square "museum" glas for
 exhibitions
In-Reply-To: <567f5d44-233e-9db2-ce93-9b65f18cb31e@leibniz-lib.de>
References: <c72ae7a526144c758d7514aca09e7d83@snm.ku.dk>
 <638b4873-b0ed-dc5f-93ab-c91358637f65@leibniz-lib.de>
 <9dae0676-5f80-87cc-d682-3c454298e418@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <015C44C7-96BB-4BCD-AD30-2F888B233D08@btinternet.com>
 <0ff514e8-0b99-6b7b-015e-4f3624ea901a@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <22DAE46D-5B28-4E39-9AE3-9606DD1F015E@btinternet.com>
 <567f5d44-233e-9db2-ce93-9b65f18cb31e@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <144E4766-D640-4C12-9F01-8CAC6DDA1941@btinternet.com>

Thanks Dirk,

That is a most useful explanation! I have seen flower vases made according to these specifications about 30 years ago except, as you say, the corners taper down to 1mm thickness which is impractical as it leads to an unstable and leaky seal!  So you?re saying that the Neubert ones are no good. Well, hopefully this political situation won?t be permanent and the prices may reduce if gas comes down in price (ha-ha!)!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com



> On 1 Nov 2022, at 07:34, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon (and Fabian),
> 
> teaming up for placing orders this is what we usually do with orders placed at St?lzle, because they start producing only if the entire order (200 jars) is sold right after production - they no longer but them on stock.
> 
> For the rectangular tanks Fabian referred to in his Neubert-Glas link, this likely refers to a glass producer in the Czech Republic. The container walls towards to edges tend to be very thin (sometimes less then 1mm), and usually these tanks also do not have a plan surface grinding. If you ask a company to do this, you loose further material making it more difficult to seal the container (even if you apply a permanent seal).
> 
> The soda-lime glassware that you can buy at retailers such as depot or others is of low quality. This applies for cylinders and rectangular containers. We once bought some tall glass flower vases (80x25 cm), but the glass has a very high, tinny sound. Leaching of the surface was observable after few years. 
> 
> For current prices, Simon, they dramatically climbed after the gas shortage in Europe after the Russian invasion. The prices for the large cylinders (30x30 cm) I mentioned earlier jumped from 360, -Eur to 520,- last year, and prices climbed further by 15-20%.
> 
> Lessons learnt over the past years however tell, that high quality glassware considerably reduces staff time for maintenance and monitoring AND keeps the specimen save in the long run. Compromises usually have a shorter life span, and required replacements usually do not get cheaper over the years, especially if you need large/tall jars.
> 
> With best wishes
> Dirk  
> 
> 
> Am 31.10.2022 um 11:14 schrieb Simon Moore:
>> Many thanks Fabian and I suspected as much.  Sometimes museums have to form a p[urchasing syndicate with others to buy large numbers but the accountants find it too complicated!
>> 
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>> 
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>> 
>> 
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:58, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Simon,
>>> 
>>> yes, the lid overlaps the edge. I think that if one is paying more that 100 Euros for a Jar, this should not happen. But since they at least offer the jars, its something to live with and since they are normal sodalime floatglass plates it can be grinded off very easely. 
>>> 
>>> And the price is just because of the small demand. DWK sells their "normal" labglass product for very good prices, but these are made in gigantic masses, so they can take less price for them. The only way of getting lower prices in in asking for a very big load of jars, this will push down the price. But I'm talking about thousands of jars at least. So in the end it doesn't mater if its DWK, Stoelzle, SIMAX or whatever big Glassfactory. They will all do it, since its technically possible, but they will make a mold, and use specific made tools, so they need a mass of production that covers the costs of making these, then the price is lower.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> 
>>> Am 31.10.22 um 10:47 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>> 
>>>> Many thanks for that update Fabian!  The DWK jars are just unaffordable now for most museums so it?s good to know that there are other and cheaper suppliers.  I didn?t understand what you meant by' the lid defers bit from the jar? - slightly overlaps the edge of the jar?
>>>> 
>>>> I?m glad to see that these jars are being made again and hopefully the DWK range will come down to a more realistic level!
>>>> 
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>> 
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:12, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
>>>>> 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Mikkel,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dirk is almost correct about the battery jars. Though they are not made or sold anymore as battery jars, if you are lucky you can find some at some local house furnishing store. I found some very nice rectangular jars at "Dille & Kamille" a few weeks back in Belgium while i was there for holidays. Its a huge dutch franchise, so maybe they have some store in Denmark as well. But its probable that other stores of this sort run this kind of jars as well. For me it was great because they sold the jars as retail for only 2 Euros each. Its not the best jar, since it has some strong curves made by the uneven melted glass, since these jars are molded in a cast. But this goes for all battery jars, even the new ones sold by DWK (Schott was bought by Duran long time ago and now Duran runs under the name DWK, since they joined with Wheaton and Kimble, other glassfactories).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here are the ones form Duran or DWK: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.dwk.com/duran-museum-jar-with-ground-glass-plate
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> They are pretty expensive, and the Lid is not very nice, since it defers a bit from the jar, so you should grind down the edges. But they are made of borosilicate, so excelent glass quality (not the lid!). Prices go between 70-150 Euro per jar.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There are two German suppliers that sell some square sodalime jars as well (around 20-50 Euro each): 
>>>>> 
>>>>> - 
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.assistent.eu/en/product/specimen-jars-museum-jars-made-of-clear-glass-with-ground-cover-plate/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> - 
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.neubert-glas.de/laborglas/onlineshop/katalog.php?KATfrom=suche&SearchText=pr%E4parat&struc=1_995727484085_1030342896125_1005301727684_1515949502601&kat=1023362157218&PHPSESSID=1effb50f3b77f3e7035b5480d4f6ce4b
>>>>> 
>>>>>  (german only.. I suggest you call them for more information)
>>>>> 
>>>>> The problem and this goes as well for the borosilicate and the cheap house furnishing store jars, is that the sizes are very limited. So usually very small and nothing compared with the pretty big sizes you showed in the picture. These are almost impossible to get new. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> So there are actually just 2 solutions if you insist in big sized square jars: One is to ask at some lab-glassblower factory. There a big jar can costs arround 500-700 Euros each. I just did some calculating for a project I'm working on. So they do exist! The jars are welded of plain borosilicate glassplates, so there is no unevenness as in the molded jars. The welding in the corner can be seen though, its less smooth as in the battery jars. But not really a problem. Its just the immense costs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The other way is to ask at other nat. hist. institutions. Some have a big "stash" of old jars that may be sold or exchanged for a favor or whatever. Maybe you are lucky and they will just donate them. It's they only thing i can think of that excludes a very big investment. Besides looking for this jars in local second-hand internet sites. Sometimes there you are lucky too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you need more info about Jars (cylindical too) just contact me directly. I have been dealing with this topic for a long time and have made some good contacts, even within DWK. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> All the best in the search!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 28.10.22 um 14:53 schrieb Dirk Neumann:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Mikkel,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> the historic battery jars are no longer produced; alternatively you can use Schott Borosilicate tubes which can be customised in diameter and length (5 cm to 35 cm and up to 2.0 tall). You might have seen the tall wide jar I posted a few days back. But for the collection in Munich they produced tall wide cyclinders (25 cm x 1,0 m) for the Australian lungfishes and Arapaima
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> These glass cylinders have less tension within the glass and are more stable against temperature and humidity shifts (the battery jars can crack if the temperature e.g. drops within 2-3 days to below 14?C).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One producer is Ga?ner Glastechnik in Munich; I have been working with them for many years.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can also check directly with Schott; there is a catalogue, but this is not openly available. But they still produce specimen jars.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The also did some rectangular containers, but smaller ones (approx. 20 cm high and wide).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The other source might be St?lzle Oberglas in Vienna, but usually they only start production if the order is above 200 containers (in the past museums teamed up for orders).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>>> Dirk
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 28.10.2022 um 14:27 schrieb Mikkel H?egh Post:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here at the Natural History Museum of Denmark we are preparing new exhibitions opening 2025. We need additional square museum glass for wet specimen display -we have a bunch (an example below), but need more sizes. I wonder if any (preferable European) company produce such?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mikkel H?egh Post
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Samlingsmedarbejder, konservator cand.scient.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Statens Naturhistoriske Museum
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Zoologisk Museum
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Universitetsparken 15
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2100 Kbh.?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> MOB 60 74 10 25
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> mhpost at snm.ku.dk
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Profil
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   <image001.jpg>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> S?dan beskytter vi persondata
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>>>>> society. See 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  for membership information.
>>>>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>>> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Postal address:
>>>>>> Museum of Nature Hamburg
>>>>>> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>>>>>> of Biodiversity Change
>>>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>>> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>>>>>> 20146 Hamburg
>>>>>> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de
>>>>>> www.leibniz-lib.de
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>>>>>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>>>>>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>>>>>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>>>>>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>>>>>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>>>>>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>>>>>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>>>>>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>>>> society. See 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.spnhc.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  for membership information.
>>>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>>> society. See 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.spnhc.org
>>>>> 
>>>>>  for membership information.
>>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Tel: +49 (0) 1573 2778729
>>> 
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>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See 
>> http://www.spnhc.org
>>  for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ****
>  
> Dirk Neumann
> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>  
> Postal address:
> Museum of Nature Hamburg
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
> of Biodiversity Change
> Dirk Neumann
> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
> 20146 Hamburg
> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de
> www.leibniz-lib.de
>  
> -- 
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
> 
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>  
> -- 
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
> 
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Tue Nov  1 05:51:48 2022
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 10:51:48 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Wanted: producer of square "museum" glas for
 exhibitions
In-Reply-To: <144E4766-D640-4C12-9F01-8CAC6DDA1941@btinternet.com>
References: <c72ae7a526144c758d7514aca09e7d83@snm.ku.dk>
 <638b4873-b0ed-dc5f-93ab-c91358637f65@leibniz-lib.de>
 <9dae0676-5f80-87cc-d682-3c454298e418@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <015C44C7-96BB-4BCD-AD30-2F888B233D08@btinternet.com>
 <0ff514e8-0b99-6b7b-015e-4f3624ea901a@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <22DAE46D-5B28-4E39-9AE3-9606DD1F015E@btinternet.com>
 <567f5d44-233e-9db2-ce93-9b65f18cb31e@leibniz-lib.de>
 <144E4766-D640-4C12-9F01-8CAC6DDA1941@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <05a1c9ed-6713-ce4b-1b02-88786b5ef748@leibniz-lib.de>

Hi Simon,

it is exactly as you describe it; if you have to manage a larger collection of these jars, this is constant fun and proofs to be a high cost-factor. When still in Munich, we started to phase them out and replaced them with wide borosilicate cylinders last year after using them for +10 years.

Especially if you want to put jars in the exhibition space with even more frequent and higher temperature and humidity shifts, this is definitely nothing you want. The image shows compromised vacuum-joint grease seals (Alsirol) after the seal got compromised from water condensing at the lid because of repeated temperature shifts during renovation works in the collection. The good thing with Alsirol is that you immediately notice that the seal is compromised if the colour changes to white (from translucent/clear).

And of course prices will drop again, absolutely agree with you on this one as well! We only need to be patient. They start to trickle, as everything else trickles, including the last UK government.

With best wishes
Dirk

[cid:part1.3c8ZJA2G.Ujcgb0L4 at leibniz-lib.de]



Am 01.11.2022 um 09:38 schrieb Simon Moore:

Thanks Dirk,

That is a most useful explanation! I have seen flower vases made according to these specifications about 30 years ago except, as you say, the corners taper down to 1mm thickness which is impractical as it leads to an unstable and leaky seal!  So you?re saying that the Neubert ones are no good. Well, hopefully this political situation won?t be permanent and the prices may reduce if gas comes down in price (ha-ha!)!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>





On 1 Nov 2022, at 07:34, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de><mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:

Hi Simon (and Fabian),

teaming up for placing orders this is what we usually do with orders placed at St?lzle, because they start producing only if the entire order (200 jars) is sold right after production - they no longer but them on stock.

For the rectangular tanks Fabian referred to in his Neubert-Glas link, this likely refers to a glass producer in the Czech Republic. The container walls towards to edges tend to be very thin (sometimes less then 1mm), and usually these tanks also do not have a plan surface grinding. If you ask a company to do this, you loose further material making it more difficult to seal the container (even if you apply a permanent seal).

The soda-lime glassware that you can buy at retailers such as depot or others is of low quality. This applies for cylinders and rectangular containers. We once bought some tall glass flower vases (80x25 cm), but the glass has a very high, tinny sound. Leaching of the surface was observable after few years.

For current prices, Simon, they dramatically climbed after the gas shortage in Europe after the Russian invasion. The prices for the large cylinders (30x30 cm) I mentioned earlier jumped from 360, -Eur to 520,- last year, and prices climbed further by 15-20%.

Lessons learnt over the past years however tell, that high quality glassware considerably reduces staff time for maintenance and monitoring AND keeps the specimen save in the long run. Compromises usually have a shorter life span, and required replacements usually do not get cheaper over the years, especially if you need large/tall jars.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 31.10.2022 um 11:14 schrieb Simon Moore:


Many thanks Fabian and I suspected as much.  Sometimes museums have to form a p[urchasing syndicate with others to buy large numbers but the accountants find it too complicated!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,


www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>








On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:58, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de><mailto:info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 wrote:

Dear Simon,

yes, the lid overlaps the edge. I think that if one is paying more that 100 Euros for a Jar, this should not happen. But since they at least offer the jars, its something to live with and since they are normal sodalime floatglass plates it can be grinded off very easely.

And the price is just because of the small demand. DWK sells their "normal" labglass product for very good prices, but these are made in gigantic masses, so they can take less price for them. The only way of getting lower prices in in asking for a very big load of jars, this will push down the price. But I'm talking about thousands of jars at least. So in the end it doesn't mater if its DWK, Stoelzle, SIMAX or whatever big Glassfactory. They will all do it, since its technically possible, but they will make a mold, and use specific made tools, so they need a mass of production that covers the costs of making these, then the price is lower.



All the best,

Am 31.10.22 um 10:47 schrieb Simon Moore:



Many thanks for that update Fabian!  The DWK jars are just unaffordable now for most museums so it?s good to know that there are other and cheaper suppliers.  I didn?t understand what you meant by' the lid defers bit from the jar? - slightly overlaps the edge of the jar?

I?m glad to see that these jars are being made again and hopefully the DWK range will come down to a more realistic level!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,



www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>









On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:12, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de><mailto:info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>

 wrote:

Dear Mikkel,

Dirk is almost correct about the battery jars. Though they are not made or sold anymore as battery jars, if you are lucky you can find some at some local house furnishing store. I found some very nice rectangular jars at "Dille & Kamille" a few weeks back in Belgium while i was there for holidays. Its a huge dutch franchise, so maybe they have some store in Denmark as well. But its probable that other stores of this sort run this kind of jars as well. For me it was great because they sold the jars as retail for only 2 Euros each. Its not the best jar, since it has some strong curves made by the uneven melted glass, since these jars are molded in a cast. But this goes for all battery jars, even the new ones sold by DWK (Schott was bought by Duran long time ago and now Duran runs under the name DWK, since they joined with Wheaton and Kimble, other glassfactories).

Here are the ones form Duran or DWK:

https://www.dwk.com/duran-museum-jar-with-ground-glass-plate



They are pretty expensive, and the Lid is not very nice, since it defers a bit from the jar, so you should grind down the edges. But they are made of borosilicate, so excelent glass quality (not the lid!). Prices go between 70-150 Euro per jar.

There are two German suppliers that sell some square sodalime jars as well (around 20-50 Euro each):

-

https://www.assistent.eu/en/product/specimen-jars-museum-jars-made-of-clear-glass-with-ground-cover-plate/



-

https://www.neubert-glas.de/laborglas/onlineshop/katalog.php?KATfrom=suche&SearchText=pr%E4parat&struc=1_995727484085_1030342896125_1005301727684_1515949502601&kat=1023362157218&PHPSESSID=1effb50f3b77f3e7035b5480d4f6ce4b

 (german only.. I suggest you call them for more information)

The problem and this goes as well for the borosilicate and the cheap house furnishing store jars, is that the sizes are very limited. So usually very small and nothing compared with the pretty big sizes you showed in the picture. These are almost impossible to get new.



So there are actually just 2 solutions if you insist in big sized square jars: One is to ask at some lab-glassblower factory. There a big jar can costs arround 500-700 Euros each. I just did some calculating for a project I'm working on. So they do exist! The jars are welded of plain borosilicate glassplates, so there is no unevenness as in the molded jars. The welding in the corner can be seen though, its less smooth as in the battery jars. But not really a problem. Its just the immense costs.

The other way is to ask at other nat. hist. institutions. Some have a big "stash" of old jars that may be sold or exchanged for a favor or whatever. Maybe you are lucky and they will just donate them. It's they only thing i can think of that excludes a very big investment. Besides looking for this jars in local second-hand internet sites. Sometimes there you are lucky too.



If you need more info about Jars (cylindical too) just contact me directly. I have been dealing with this topic for a long time and have made some good contacts, even within DWK.



All the best in the search!



Am 28.10.22 um 14:53 schrieb Dirk Neumann:




Dear Mikkel,

the historic battery jars are no longer produced; alternatively you can use Schott Borosilicate tubes which can be customised in diameter and length (5 cm to 35 cm and up to 2.0 tall). You might have seen the tall wide jar I posted a few days back. But for the collection in Munich they produced tall wide cyclinders (25 cm x 1,0 m) for the Australian lungfishes and Arapaima

These glass cylinders have less tension within the glass and are more stable against temperature and humidity shifts (the battery jars can crack if the temperature e.g. drops within 2-3 days to below 14?C).

One producer is Ga?ner Glastechnik in Munich; I have been working with them for many years.

You can also check directly with Schott; there is a catalogue, but this is not openly available. But they still produce specimen jars.

The also did some rectangular containers, but smaller ones (approx. 20 cm high and wide).

The other source might be St?lzle Oberglas in Vienna, but usually they only start production if the order is above 200 containers (in the past museums teamed up for orders).


Hope this helps
Dirk



Am 28.10.2022 um 14:27 schrieb Mikkel H?egh Post:




Hi

Here at the Natural History Museum of Denmark we are preparing new exhibitions opening 2025. We need additional square museum glass for wet specimen display -we have a bunch (an example below), but need more sizes. I wonder if any (preferable European) company produce such?

Best regards,



Mikkel H?egh Post

Samlingsmedarbejder, konservator cand.scient.



Statens Naturhistoriske Museum

Zoologisk Museum

Universitetsparken 15

2100 Kbh.?



MOB 60 74 10 25



mhpost at snm.ku.dk<mailto:mhpost at snm.ku.dk>



Profil



  <image001.jpg>



S?dan beskytter vi persondata











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_______________________________________________
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Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See


http://www.spnhc.org


 for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.





--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628


d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<http://www.leibniz-lib.de>



--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
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natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
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http://www.spnhc.org


 for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.





--

Tel: +49 (0) 1573 2778729

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Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
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natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
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http://www.spnhc.org

 for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.




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_______________________________________________
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Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See
http://www.spnhc.org
 for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.





--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<http://www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
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Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
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Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.






--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
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Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
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Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  1 06:27:29 2022
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 10:27:29 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Wanted: producer of square "museum" glas for
 exhibitions
In-Reply-To: <05a1c9ed-6713-ce4b-1b02-88786b5ef748@leibniz-lib.de>
References: <c72ae7a526144c758d7514aca09e7d83@snm.ku.dk>
 <638b4873-b0ed-dc5f-93ab-c91358637f65@leibniz-lib.de>
 <9dae0676-5f80-87cc-d682-3c454298e418@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <015C44C7-96BB-4BCD-AD30-2F888B233D08@btinternet.com>
 <0ff514e8-0b99-6b7b-015e-4f3624ea901a@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <22DAE46D-5B28-4E39-9AE3-9606DD1F015E@btinternet.com>
 <567f5d44-233e-9db2-ce93-9b65f18cb31e@leibniz-lib.de>
 <144E4766-D640-4C12-9F01-8CAC6DDA1941@btinternet.com>
 <05a1c9ed-6713-ce4b-1b02-88786b5ef748@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <BEF6659D-3CB1-41DF-9324-5FBBFA198B8C@btinternet.com>

Thanks Dirk,

Useful to see the trickly marks where the Alsirol seals have become compromised (as you say, like the Truss administration!) 
I think that they still use a lower melting/congealing point paraffin wax for sealing jars in the Netherlands for sealing these types of jars.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 1 Nov 2022, at 09:51, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon,
> 
> it is exactly as you describe it; if you have to manage a larger collection of these jars, this is constant fun and proofs to be a high cost-factor. When still in Munch, we started to phase them out and replaced them with wide borosilicate cylinders last year after using them for +10 years.
> 
> Especially if you want to put jars in the exhibition space with even more frequent and higher temperature and humidity shifts, this is definitely nothing you want. The image shows compromised vacuum-joint grease seals (Alsirol) after the seal got compromised from water condensing at the lid because of repeated temperature shifts during renovation works in the collection. The good thing with Alsirol is that you immediately notice that the seal is compromised if the colour changes to white (from translucent/clear).
> 
> And of course prices will drop again, absolutely agree with you on this one as well! We only need to be patient. They start to trickle, as everything else trickles, including the last UK government.
> 
> With best wishes
> Dirk
> 
> <YHxp6NbIMu6zWtHA.png>
> 
> 
> 
> Am 01.11.2022 um 09:38 schrieb Simon Moore:
>> Thanks Dirk,
>> 
>> That is a most useful explanation! I have seen flower vases made according to these specifications about 30 years ago except, as you say, the corners taper down to 1mm thickness which is impractical as it leads to an unstable and leaky seal!  So you?re saying that the Neubert ones are no good. Well, hopefully this political situation won?t be permanent and the prices may reduce if gas comes down in price (ha-ha!)!
>> 
>> With all good wishes, Simon
>> 
>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>> 
>> 
>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1 Nov 2022, at 07:34, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Simon (and Fabian),
>>> 
>>> teaming up for placing orders this is what we usually do with orders placed at St?lzle, because they start producing only if the entire order (200 jars) is sold right after production - they no longer but them on stock.
>>> 
>>> For the rectangular tanks Fabian referred to in his Neubert-Glas link, this likely refers to a glass producer in the Czech Republic. The container walls towards to edges tend to be very thin (sometimes less then 1mm), and usually these tanks also do not have a plan surface grinding. If you ask a company to do this, you loose further material making it more difficult to seal the container (even if you apply a permanent seal).
>>> 
>>> The soda-lime glassware that you can buy at retailers such as depot or others is of low quality. This applies for cylinders and rectangular containers. We once bought some tall glass flower vases (80x25 cm), but the glass has a very high, tinny sound. Leaching of the surface was observable after few years. 
>>> 
>>> For current prices, Simon, they dramatically climbed after the gas shortage in Europe after the Russian invasion. The prices for the large cylinders (30x30 cm) I mentioned earlier jumped from 360, -Eur to 520,- last year, and prices climbed further by 15-20%.
>>> 
>>> Lessons learnt over the past years however tell, that high quality glassware considerably reduces staff time for maintenance and monitoring AND keeps the specimen save in the long run. Compromises usually have a shorter life span, and required replacements usually do not get cheaper over the years, especially if you need large/tall jars.
>>> 
>>> With best wishes
>>> Dirk  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 31.10.2022 um 11:14 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>> 
>>>> Many thanks Fabian and I suspected as much.  Sometimes museums have to form a p[urchasing syndicate with others to buy large numbers but the accountants find it too complicated!
>>>> 
>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>> 
>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:58, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
>>>>> 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Simon,
>>>>> 
>>>>> yes, the lid overlaps the edge. I think that if one is paying more that 100 Euros for a Jar, this should not happen. But since they at least offer the jars, its something to live with and since they are normal sodalime floatglass plates it can be grinded off very easely. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> And the price is just because of the small demand. DWK sells their "normal" labglass product for very good prices, but these are made in gigantic masses, so they can take less price for them. The only way of getting lower prices in in asking for a very big load of jars, this will push down the price. But I'm talking about thousands of jars at least. So in the end it doesn't mater if its DWK, Stoelzle, SIMAX or whatever big Glassfactory. They will all do it, since its technically possible, but they will make a mold, and use specific made tools, so they need a mass of production that covers the costs of making these, then the price is lower.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 31.10.22 um 10:47 schrieb Simon Moore:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Many thanks for that update Fabian!  The DWK jars are just unaffordable now for most museums so it?s good to know that there are other and cheaper suppliers.  I didn?t understand what you meant by' the lid defers bit from the jar? - slightly overlaps the edge of the jar?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?m glad to see that these jars are being made again and hopefully the DWK range will come down to a more realistic level!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With all good wishes, Simon
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
>>>>>> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:12, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dear Mikkel,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dirk is almost correct about the battery jars. Though they are not made or sold anymore as battery jars, if you are lucky you can find some at some local house furnishing store. I found some very nice rectangular jars at "Dille & Kamille" a few weeks back in Belgium while i was there for holidays. Its a huge dutch franchise, so maybe they have some store in Denmark as well. But its probable that other stores of this sort run this kind of jars as well. For me it was great because they sold the jars as retail for only 2 Euros each. Its not the best jar, since it has some strong curves made by the uneven melted glass, since these jars are molded in a cast. But this goes for all battery jars, even the new ones sold by DWK (Schott was bought by Duran long time ago and now Duran runs under the name DWK, since they joined with Wheaton and Kimble, other glassfactories).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here are the ones form Duran or DWK: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://www.dwk.com/duran-museum-jar-with-ground-glass-plate
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> They are pretty expensive, and the Lid is not very nice, since it defers a bit from the jar, so you should grind down the edges. But they are made of borosilicate, so excelent glass quality (not the lid!). Prices go between 70-150 Euro per jar.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There are two German suppliers that sell some square sodalime jars as well (around 20-50 Euro each): 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://www.assistent.eu/en/product/specimen-jars-museum-jars-made-of-clear-glass-with-ground-cover-plate/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://www.neubert-glas.de/laborglas/onlineshop/katalog.php?KATfrom=suche&SearchText=pr%E4parat&struc=1_995727484085_1030342896125_1005301727684_1515949502601&kat=1023362157218&PHPSESSID=1effb50f3b77f3e7035b5480d4f6ce4b
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  (german only.. I suggest you call them for more information)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The problem and this goes as well for the borosilicate and the cheap house furnishing store jars, is that the sizes are very limited. So usually very small and nothing compared with the pretty big sizes you showed in the picture. These are almost impossible to get new. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So there are actually just 2 solutions if you insist in big sized square jars: One is to ask at some lab-glassblower factory. There a big jar can costs arround 500-700 Euros each. I just did some calculating for a project I'm working on. So they do exist! The jars are welded of plain borosilicate glassplates, so there is no unevenness as in the molded jars. The welding in the corner can be seen though, its less smooth as in the battery jars. But not really a problem. Its just the immense costs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The other way is to ask at other nat. hist. institutions. Some have a big "stash" of old jars that may be sold or exchanged for a favor or whatever. Maybe you are lucky and they will just donate them. It's they only thing i can think of that excludes a very big investment. Besides looking for this jars in local second-hand internet sites. Sometimes there you are lucky too.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you need more info about Jars (cylindical too) just contact me directly. I have been dealing with this topic for a long time and have made some good contacts, even within DWK. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> All the best in the search!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Am 28.10.22 um 14:53 schrieb Dirk Neumann:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dear Mikkel,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> the historic battery jars are no longer produced; alternatively you can use Schott Borosilicate tubes which can be customised in diameter and length (5 cm to 35 cm and up to 2.0 tall). You might have seen the tall wide jar I posted a few days back. But for the collection in Munich they produced tall wide cyclinders (25 cm x 1,0 m) for the Australian lungfishes and Arapaima
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> These glass cylinders have less tension within the glass and are more stable against temperature and humidity shifts (the battery jars can crack if the temperature e.g. drops within 2-3 days to below 14?C).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> One producer is Ga?ner Glastechnik in Munich; I have been working with them for many years.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You can also check directly with Schott; there is a catalogue, but this is not openly available. But they still produce specimen jars.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The also did some rectangular containers, but smaller ones (approx. 20 cm high and wide).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The other source might be St?lzle Oberglas in Vienna, but usually they only start production if the order is above 200 containers (in the past museums teamed up for orders).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>>>>> Dirk
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Am 28.10.2022 um 14:27 schrieb Mikkel H?egh Post:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Here at the Natural History Museum of Denmark we are preparing new exhibitions opening 2025. We need additional square museum glass for wet specimen display -we have a bunch (an example below), but need more sizes. I wonder if any (preferable European) company produce such?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mikkel H?egh Post
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Samlingsmedarbejder, konservator cand.scient.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Statens Naturhistoriske Museum
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Zoologisk Museum
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Universitetsparken 15
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 2100 Kbh.?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> MOB 60 74 10 25
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> mhpost at snm.ku.dk
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Profil
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>   <image001.jpg>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> S?dan beskytter vi persondata
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>>>>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>>>>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>>>>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>>>>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>>>>>>> society. See 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://www.spnhc.org
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  for membership information.
>>>>>>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>>>>> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Postal address:
>>>>>>>> Museum of Nature Hamburg
>>>>>>>> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>>>>>>>> of Biodiversity Change
>>>>>>>> Dirk Neumann
>>>>>>>> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>>>>>>>> 20146 Hamburg
>>>>>>>> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de
>>>>>>>> www.leibniz-lib.de
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>>>>>>>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>>>>>>>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>>>>>>>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>>>>>>>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>>>>>>>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>>>>>>>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>>>>>>>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>>>>>>>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>>>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>>>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>>>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>>>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>>>>>> society. See 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.spnhc.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  for membership information.
>>>>>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Tel: +49 (0) 1573 2778729
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Web: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.naturhistorische-konservierung.de
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> <Logo.jpg>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>>>>> society. See 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.spnhc.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  for membership information.
>>>>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tel: +49 (0) 1573 2778729
>>>>> 
>>>>> Web: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.naturhistorische-konservierung.de
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> <Logo.jpg>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>>> society. See 
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.spnhc.org
>>>> 
>>>>  for membership information.
>>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> ****
>>>  
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>>>  
>>> Postal address:
>>> Museum of Nature Hamburg
>>> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>>> of Biodiversity Change
>>> Dirk Neumann
>>> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>>> 20146 Hamburg
>>> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
>>> 
>>> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de
>>> www.leibniz-lib.de
>>> 
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>> 
>>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>> 
>>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> 
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See 
>>> http://www.spnhc.org
>>>  for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ****
>  
> Dirk Neumann
> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>  
> Postal address:
> Museum of Nature Hamburg
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
> of Biodiversity Change
> Dirk Neumann
> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
> 20146 Hamburg
> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de
> www.leibniz-lib.de
>  
> -- 
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
> 
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>  
> -- 
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
> 
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst


From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Tue Nov  1 06:36:27 2022
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 11:36:27 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Wanted: producer of square "museum" glas for
 exhibitions
In-Reply-To: <BEF6659D-3CB1-41DF-9324-5FBBFA198B8C@btinternet.com>
References: <c72ae7a526144c758d7514aca09e7d83@snm.ku.dk>
 <638b4873-b0ed-dc5f-93ab-c91358637f65@leibniz-lib.de>
 <9dae0676-5f80-87cc-d682-3c454298e418@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <015C44C7-96BB-4BCD-AD30-2F888B233D08@btinternet.com>
 <0ff514e8-0b99-6b7b-015e-4f3624ea901a@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
 <22DAE46D-5B28-4E39-9AE3-9606DD1F015E@btinternet.com>
 <567f5d44-233e-9db2-ce93-9b65f18cb31e@leibniz-lib.de>
 <144E4766-D640-4C12-9F01-8CAC6DDA1941@btinternet.com>
 <05a1c9ed-6713-ce4b-1b02-88786b5ef748@leibniz-lib.de>
 <BEF6659D-3CB1-41DF-9324-5FBBFA198B8C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <27f2603e-7e40-39e8-6360-da30fdb4c6cc@leibniz-lib.de>

... vaseline soft white usually starts running earlier and compromised seal often are hard to detect.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 01.11.2022 um 11:27 schrieb Simon Moore:

Thanks Dirk,

Useful to see the trickly marks where the Alsirol seals have become compromised (as you say, like the Truss administration!)
I think that they still use a lower melting/congealing point paraffin wax for sealing jars in the Netherlands for sealing these types of jars.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>






On 1 Nov 2022, at 09:51, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de><mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:

Hi Simon,

it is exactly as you describe it; if you have to manage a larger collection of these jars, this is constant fun and proofs to be a high cost-factor. When still in Munch, we started to phase them out and replaced them with wide borosilicate cylinders last year after using them for +10 years.

Especially if you want to put jars in the exhibition space with even more frequent and higher temperature and humidity shifts, this is definitely nothing you want. The image shows compromised vacuum-joint grease seals (Alsirol) after the seal got compromised from water condensing at the lid because of repeated temperature shifts during renovation works in the collection. The good thing with Alsirol is that you immediately notice that the seal is compromised if the colour changes to white (from translucent/clear).

And of course prices will drop again, absolutely agree with you on this one as well! We only need to be patient. They start to trickle, as everything else trickles, including the last UK government.

With best wishes
Dirk

<YHxp6NbIMu6zWtHA.png>



Am 01.11.2022 um 09:38 schrieb Simon Moore:


Thanks Dirk,

That is a most useful explanation! I have seen flower vases made according to these specifications about 30 years ago except, as you say, the corners taper down to 1mm thickness which is impractical as it leads to an unstable and leaky seal!  So you?re saying that the Neubert ones are no good. Well, hopefully this political situation won?t be permanent and the prices may reduce if gas comes down in price (ha-ha!)!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,


www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>







On 1 Nov 2022, at 07:34, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de><mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
 wrote:

Hi Simon (and Fabian),

teaming up for placing orders this is what we usually do with orders placed at St?lzle, because they start producing only if the entire order (200 jars) is sold right after production - they no longer but them on stock.

For the rectangular tanks Fabian referred to in his Neubert-Glas link, this likely refers to a glass producer in the Czech Republic. The container walls towards to edges tend to be very thin (sometimes less then 1mm), and usually these tanks also do not have a plan surface grinding. If you ask a company to do this, you loose further material making it more difficult to seal the container (even if you apply a permanent seal).

The soda-lime glassware that you can buy at retailers such as depot or others is of low quality. This applies for cylinders and rectangular containers. We once bought some tall glass flower vases (80x25 cm), but the glass has a very high, tinny sound. Leaching of the surface was observable after few years.

For current prices, Simon, they dramatically climbed after the gas shortage in Europe after the Russian invasion. The prices for the large cylinders (30x30 cm) I mentioned earlier jumped from 360, -Eur to 520,- last year, and prices climbed further by 15-20%.

Lessons learnt over the past years however tell, that high quality glassware considerably reduces staff time for maintenance and monitoring AND keeps the specimen save in the long run. Compromises usually have a shorter life span, and required replacements usually do not get cheaper over the years, especially if you need large/tall jars.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 31.10.2022 um 11:14 schrieb Simon Moore:



Many thanks Fabian and I suspected as much.  Sometimes museums have to form a p[urchasing syndicate with others to buy large numbers but the accountants find it too complicated!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,



www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>










On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:58, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de><mailto:info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>

 wrote:

Dear Simon,

yes, the lid overlaps the edge. I think that if one is paying more that 100 Euros for a Jar, this should not happen. But since they at least offer the jars, its something to live with and since they are normal sodalime floatglass plates it can be grinded off very easely.

And the price is just because of the small demand. DWK sells their "normal" labglass product for very good prices, but these are made in gigantic masses, so they can take less price for them. The only way of getting lower prices in in asking for a very big load of jars, this will push down the price. But I'm talking about thousands of jars at least. So in the end it doesn't mater if its DWK, Stoelzle, SIMAX or whatever big Glassfactory. They will all do it, since its technically possible, but they will make a mold, and use specific made tools, so they need a mass of production that covers the costs of making these, then the price is lower.



All the best,

Am 31.10.22 um 10:47 schrieb Simon Moore:




Many thanks for that update Fabian!  The DWK jars are just unaffordable now for most museums so it?s good to know that there are other and cheaper suppliers.  I didn?t understand what you meant by' the lid defers bit from the jar? - slightly overlaps the edge of the jar?

I?m glad to see that these jars are being made again and hopefully the DWK range will come down to a more realistic level!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,




www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>











On 31 Oct 2022, at 09:12, Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de><mailto:info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>


 wrote:

Dear Mikkel,

Dirk is almost correct about the battery jars. Though they are not made or sold anymore as battery jars, if you are lucky you can find some at some local house furnishing store. I found some very nice rectangular jars at "Dille & Kamille" a few weeks back in Belgium while i was there for holidays. Its a huge dutch franchise, so maybe they have some store in Denmark as well. But its probable that other stores of this sort run this kind of jars as well. For me it was great because they sold the jars as retail for only 2 Euros each. Its not the best jar, since it has some strong curves made by the uneven melted glass, since these jars are molded in a cast. But this goes for all battery jars, even the new ones sold by DWK (Schott was bought by Duran long time ago and now Duran runs under the name DWK, since they joined with Wheaton and Kimble, other glassfactories).

Here are the ones form Duran or DWK:


https://www.dwk.com/duran-museum-jar-with-ground-glass-plate




They are pretty expensive, and the Lid is not very nice, since it defers a bit from the jar, so you should grind down the edges. But they are made of borosilicate, so excelent glass quality (not the lid!). Prices go between 70-150 Euro per jar.

There are two German suppliers that sell some square sodalime jars as well (around 20-50 Euro each):

-


https://www.assistent.eu/en/product/specimen-jars-museum-jars-made-of-clear-glass-with-ground-cover-plate/




-


https://www.neubert-glas.de/laborglas/onlineshop/katalog.php?KATfrom=suche&SearchText=pr%E4parat&struc=1_995727484085_1030342896125_1005301727684_1515949502601&kat=1023362157218&PHPSESSID=1effb50f3b77f3e7035b5480d4f6ce4b


 (german only.. I suggest you call them for more information)

The problem and this goes as well for the borosilicate and the cheap house furnishing store jars, is that the sizes are very limited. So usually very small and nothing compared with the pretty big sizes you showed in the picture. These are almost impossible to get new.



So there are actually just 2 solutions if you insist in big sized square jars: One is to ask at some lab-glassblower factory. There a big jar can costs arround 500-700 Euros each. I just did some calculating for a project I'm working on. So they do exist! The jars are welded of plain borosilicate glassplates, so there is no unevenness as in the molded jars. The welding in the corner can be seen though, its less smooth as in the battery jars. But not really a problem. Its just the immense costs.

The other way is to ask at other nat. hist. institutions. Some have a big "stash" of old jars that may be sold or exchanged for a favor or whatever. Maybe you are lucky and they will just donate them. It's they only thing i can think of that excludes a very big investment. Besides looking for this jars in local second-hand internet sites. Sometimes there you are lucky too.



If you need more info about Jars (cylindical too) just contact me directly. I have been dealing with this topic for a long time and have made some good contacts, even within DWK.



All the best in the search!



Am 28.10.22 um 14:53 schrieb Dirk Neumann:





Dear Mikkel,

the historic battery jars are no longer produced; alternatively you can use Schott Borosilicate tubes which can be customised in diameter and length (5 cm to 35 cm and up to 2.0 tall). You might have seen the tall wide jar I posted a few days back. But for the collection in Munich they produced tall wide cyclinders (25 cm x 1,0 m) for the Australian lungfishes and Arapaima

These glass cylinders have less tension within the glass and are more stable against temperature and humidity shifts (the battery jars can crack if the temperature e.g. drops within 2-3 days to below 14?C).

One producer is Ga?ner Glastechnik in Munich; I have been working with them for many years.

You can also check directly with Schott; there is a catalogue, but this is not openly available. But they still produce specimen jars.

The also did some rectangular containers, but smaller ones (approx. 20 cm high and wide).

The other source might be St?lzle Oberglas in Vienna, but usually they only start production if the order is above 200 containers (in the past museums teamed up for orders).


Hope this helps
Dirk



Am 28.10.2022 um 14:27 schrieb Mikkel H?egh Post:





Hi

Here at the Natural History Museum of Denmark we are preparing new exhibitions opening 2025. We need additional square museum glass for wet specimen display -we have a bunch (an example below), but need more sizes. I wonder if any (preferable European) company produce such?

Best regards,



Mikkel H?egh Post

Samlingsmedarbejder, konservator cand.scient.



Statens Naturhistoriske Museum

Zoologisk Museum

Universitetsparken 15

2100 Kbh.?



MOB 60 74 10 25




mhpost at snm.ku.dk<mailto:mhpost at snm.ku.dk>




Profil



  <image001.jpg>



S?dan beskytter vi persondata











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natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
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http://www.spnhc.org

 for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.




--
****

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Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628

d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<http://www.leibniz-lib.de>


--
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Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
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natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See
http://www.spnhc.org
 for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.





--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<http://www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst






--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
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From liathappleton at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 10:32:01 2022
From: liathappleton at gmail.com (Liath Appleton)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 09:32:01 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC 38th Annual Meeting
Message-ID: <CAEf=rq-PCqwOFod4YmCzSi4cXNwV98UQ_i5Y289UDMKNH1XjFA@mail.gmail.com>

The Local Organizing Committee has put together a little something to get
you excited about the 2023 meeting in San Francisco! Check it out at
https://spnhc.org/spnhc-38th-annual-meeting/

Liath Appleton
Collections Manager
Non-Vertebrate Paleontology Lab
University of Texas at Austin
Bldg PRC122 - campus mail code R8500
10100 Burnet Road
Austin, TX 78758

SPNHC Connection Editor (newsletter at spnhc.org)
SPNHC Web Manager (webmaster at spnhc.org)
www.spnhc.org
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From abentley at ku.edu  Tue Nov  1 13:19:53 2022
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 17:19:53 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Repatriation Program Manager at the University of
 Kansas
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR01MB38350FF920368E7BF33EDA76B6369@DM6PR01MB3835.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <CAA00WhE6YPnMMKRgnhW3BoZXEur3OUFngVb9to1T0i=W043KCw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB34140709098B426EB1F4CF63A6369@DM5PR0102MB3414.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM6PR01MB383522750BBB86B6D12169D2B6369@DM6PR01MB3835.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB34143B78558130CE7BBC53F9A6369@DM5PR0102MB3414.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM6PR01MB38350FF920368E7BF33EDA76B6369@DM6PR01MB3835.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR01MB32649389FA1B3D6F89092A33B2369@MWHPR01MB3264.prod.exchangelabs.com>

The University of Kansas is currently seeking applicants for a repatriation program manager. Please see below for details and share with any potential candidates you may know.  The application link is here:

https://employment.ku.edu/repatriation-program-manager/23761br
Repatriation Program Manager
Position Overview
The University of Kansas Office of the Chancellor invites applications for a Repatriation Program Manager (RPM). The RPM coordinates federal Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act compliance (NAGPRA), consultations, repatriations, and other activities by managing inventory and curation of Native American and Indigenous artifacts and remains across the university. This position will advance KU's Repatriation Program and serve as a liaison between the university, tribal nations, the National NAGPRA program, and other federal, state and/or international agencies. The position will report to the Vice Chancellor for Audit, Risk & Compliance.

In addition to the professional requirements listed below, the person hired to fill this position must be culturally aware, a good listener with excellent verbal and written communication skills that effectively employ tact and discretion with sensitive matters, highly organized with attention to detail and accuracy, and have a strong work ethic and positive attitude.
Job Description
55% Compliance and Repatriation:
*        Develop and implement a university NAGPRA policy and related procedures in coordination with KU's NAGPRA committee and key stakeholders, ensuring compliance with NAGPRA and all applicable laws and policies
*        Coordinate with collection managers in KU's Biodiversity Institute & Natural History Museum, Spencer Museum and other university and community stakeholders in updating and managing inventories of ancestral human remains and NAGPRA-eligible objects in KU collections, keep accurate records of communications, manage program databases and perform data entry, and prepare Federal notices and communications with national NAGPRA staff
*        Work closely with Tribal Historic Preservation Officers (THPO) and/or their designees to coordinate tribal access to as well as repatriation and disposition of human remains and cultural items and archaeological collections in KU's custody
*        Oversee additional repatriation and disposition; maintain records of outreach, notification, and consultation; track responses, assemble and maintain documentation and prepare status report
*        Represent the university as the lead NAGPRA representative at regular meetings with tribal government officials and representatives to coordinate compliance, address tribal concerns, and when possible, negotiate culturally sensitive resolutions
*        Serve as the primary point of contact for all NAGPRA inquiries seeking information about Native American remains and objects falling under NAGPRA regulations
*        Collaborate and consult closely with the university's NAGPRA Committee in matters of compliance and procedure
*        Work with the key stakeholders on efforts for non-NAGPRA repatriation
25% Capacity Building:
*        Manage administrative aspects of the university's Repatriation Program, including developing and project managing the repatriation implementation plan
*        Participate in promoting and coordinating outreach activities for research and education
*        Develop and submit grant proposals and funding requests to support NAGPRA activities
*        Administer repatriation-related budgets
15% Relationships/Personnel:
*        Establish and maintain relationships with tribal communities and serve as an institutional point of contact for NAGPRA inquiries seeking information about Native American remains and objects falling under NAGPRA regulations
*        Build and maintain strong relationships with university and external partners through collaboration and institutional community involvement and be recognized as a solution-driven, trusted advisor
*        Maintain a strong service focus by developing productive working relationships and regular communication with university leadership and key personnel
*        Participate and partner with key personnel on advisory groups and/or steering committees
*        Supervise, coach, and mentor student employees in performance of their work to support the program's mission
5% Other duties as assigned
Required Qualifications
1.     Bachelor's degree in Anthropology, Archaeology, Museum Studies, Native American or Indigenous Studies, or related discipline from an accredited university; or a High School diploma/GED equivalent and five years related experience or equivalent training in working with American Indian tribes or descent communities, or culturally significant objects.
2.     Three years of experience in identifying, analyzing, organizing and/or managing Native American artifacts, human remains, and associated funerary objects; or working with American Indian tribes to repatriate NAGPRA related or other items of cultural significance, or working with descent communities and caring for culturally significant objects; and/or equivalent training, education or experience with traditional Tribal Elders, Tribal Cultural Departments and Historians, or Tribal Historic Preservation Officers
Preferred Qualifications
1.     Master's degree in a required field from an accredited university.
2.     Experience with NAGPRA compliance, tribal consultation, and/or working with descendent communities
3.     Experience with collections care and management in a museum, academic, or other research environment informed by museum standards and Indigenous perspectives
4.     Knowledge of archaeological collections Central Plains-Midwest archaeology and ethnohistory
5.     Knowledge and understanding of field, laboratory, and analytical methods and terminology
6.     Highly skilled communication and interpersonal skills to communicate both verbally and in writing.
7.     Ability to perform work to quality, timeliness, and ethical standards while working independently and with a variety of individuals, groups, and organizations
8.     Ability to evaluate and synthesize multiple lines of different kinds of information.
9.     Ability to use discretion and maintain all confidentiality.
Additional Candidate Instructions
In addition to the online application, the following documents are required to be considered for this position:
1.     A cover letter addressing how required and preferred qualifications are met.
2.     Resume or curriculum vitae.
3.     Contact information for three professional references.
Incomplete applications will not be considered.
*        Application review begins Monday, November 14, and will continue until a qualified pool of candidates has been identified.
Contact Information to Applicants
John Curran
jacurran at ku.edu<mailto:jacurran at ku.edu>
Advertised Salary Range
$60,000-$80,000
Work Schedule
8:00 am to 5:00 pm, Mon-Fri
Application Review Begins

Monday, November 14, 2022
_._,_._,_._,_._,_
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From AndersonG at CarnegieMNH.Org  Tue Nov  1 14:27:41 2022
From: AndersonG at CarnegieMNH.Org (Anderson, Gretchen)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 18:27:41 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Job Opportunity - Associate Conservator,
 Carnegie Museum of Natural History
Message-ID: <MN2PR02MB691289D7E78C60AE1F8FE908BC369@MN2PR02MB6912.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Colleagues,
We are extending our search for an Associate Conservator until the end of November.  The position is for a 2 year project, working on ancient Egyptian objects for an upcoming exhibition. Experience with archaeological wood and pigments preferred, since two of the primary objects are a 4000 year-old wooden funerary boat, and a coffin. This is a temporary full-time position eligible for full benefits. Expected pay range, based on experience is $45,000 -52,000.

https://carnegiemuseums.org/opportunities/search-careers/

https://us63.dayforcehcm.com/CandidatePortal/en-US/car/Posting/View/4787

Gretchen Anderson

Gretchen Anderson
Conservator
Carnegie Museum of Natural History
(Preferred  pronouns: she/her)
AndersonG at CarnegieMNH.Org<mailto:AndersonG at CarnegieMNH.Org>
Mobile: 412-420-9083





The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
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From ekrimmel at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 13:48:25 2022
From: ekrimmel at gmail.com (Erica Krimmel)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2022 10:48:25 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Next Thursday,
 November 10th virtual SPNHC wiki edit-a-thon!
Message-ID: <CAFnTmHxMCW4Tt5RaakKTKxMWtsofHGhM+sqTAa5U0i=QD2fJfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Do you regularly respond to posts on NHColl because you have expertise in a
specific area that others frequently have questions about? Do you find
yourself posting to NHColl because you aren?t sure where to find answers to
your collections management questions? Are you interested in promoting best
practices within our community?

Please join the SPNHC Best Practices Committee and iDigBio for a virtual
work party, Capturing community expertise: Virtual SPNHC wiki edit-a-thon,
on *Thursday, November 10th from 10am - 1pm Eastern Time* (see your local
time here
<https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Virtual+SPNHC+wiki+edit-a-thon&iso=20221110T10&p1=797&ah=3>
)!

This is a collaborative event hosted by iDigBio and the SPNHC Best
Practices Committee with the aim to improve and expand SPNHC wiki content (
http://spnhc.biowikifarm.net/wiki/). Following a brief training, attendees
will participate in formatting and uploading pre-generated content, filling
information gaps on existing wiki pages, and/or generating new page
content. We welcome participants from all disciplines, roles, and
experience levels. Throughout the workshop, attendees can expect to work
independently or collaboratively on assigned content or on topic(s) of
their choosing. Whether you?re a regular contributor to the SPNHC wiki, or
have never heard of it before, this event is a great opportunity to learn
more and get involved in curating collections management knowledge within
our community!

Register (free) via Zoom at
https://fsu.zoom.us/meeting/register/tJcsceGvqT0oHtB0EE9hQzDLigjIKZjYEMy6,
and see https://bit.ly/3Nrz3mh for more information including an agenda and
a list of edit-a-thon priority content areas.

*Erica Krimmel*
Digitization Resources Coordinator
Integrated Digitized Biocollections <https://www.idigbio.org/> (iDigBio)
Florida State University
ekrimmel at fsu.edu
(619) 876-3794
ORCID 0000-0003-3192-0080 <https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3192-0080>
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From Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee  Thu Nov  3 03:02:34 2022
From: Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee (Lennart Lennuk)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 07:02:34 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher
Message-ID: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>

Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word ?voucher? used for?
There is voucher specimens ? that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples ? is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Thu Nov  3 08:22:54 2022
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 12:22:54 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

To ?vouch for? something or someone means ?to support their claim to truth?. If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey ? even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of ?voucher?, then, might be ?material evidence for a claim to truth?.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.
Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word ?voucher? used for?
There is voucher specimens ? that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples ? is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

-------------- next part --------------
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From simmons.johne at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 09:41:41 2022
From: simmons.johne at gmail.com (John E Simmons)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 09:41:41 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>

Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you
to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its
meaning.

*Voucher* comes from the Latin word *vocare*, which means "to call." The
best definition for *voucher* in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact,
circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use
voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have
been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can
also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc.
But if you think of *voucher* as "a thing that confirms something," its
meaning in the phrase *voucher specimen* is clear.

There is an equivalent word for *voucher* in Spanish, *comprobante*, but I
have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America)
prefer to use the word *voucher* when referring to scientific specimens
because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from
Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a *voucher specimen* is called in other
languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu> wrote:

> To ?vouch for? something or someone means ?to support their claim to
> truth?. If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that
> quality.
>
>
>
> Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published
> or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks
> from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for
> that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and
> see what I was working with.
>
>
>
> Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined
> study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example,
> are vouchers for that survey ? even if nothing about it is published. They
> support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species
> were collected.
>
>
>
> Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not
> vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they
> belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.
>
>
>
> A loose definition of ?voucher?, then, might be ?material evidence for a
> claim to truth?.
>
>
>
> PC
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul Callomon
>
> Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
> ------------------------------
>
> *Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University*
>
> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
> *prc44 at drexel.edu <prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> *On Behalf Of *Lennart
> Lennuk
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
> *To:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* [Nhcoll-l] voucher
>
>
>
> *External.*
>
> Hi!
>
>
>
> Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word ?voucher? used for?
>
> There is voucher specimens ? that means top specimens of a certain species?
>
> Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers,
> bloodsamples ? is it only in zoology?
>
> And then also eDNA Voucher.
>
>
>
> Sorry for a little messy wording.
>
>
>
> Best regards!
>
> Lennart Lennuk
>
> Head of collections
>
> Estonian Museum of Natural History
>
> +372 6603404, 56569916
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Thu Nov  3 09:46:25 2022
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 13:46:25 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB522061C8C1961548A0D1C31EC3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

And just to add a touch more: a type specimen is both the register of a scientific name and a voucher for the published proposal that the type represents a distinct species. The former is an objective relationship established under fixed laws (the ICZN) and thus a clerical matter; the latter an opinion, and thus a claim to truth.


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:42 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
Cc: Lennart Lennuk <Lennart.Lennuk at loodusmuuseum.ee>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers


External.
Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To "vouch for" something or someone means "to support their claim to truth". If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey - even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of "voucher", then, might be "material evidence for a claim to truth".

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.
Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word "voucher" used for?
There is voucher specimens - that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples - is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7Cdeb22239cd9d49845b6608dabda1345c%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030797324505177%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XP2sRUOdZZYClsb233aoyl825jk7UKoC7BMThXZYLfU%3D&reserved=0>

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spnhc.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7Cdeb22239cd9d49845b6608dabda1345c%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030797324661413%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mA%2BK%2BNDJVRQnlBtWbfBlDXREbrkXUwJU3RI0EVto91Y%3D&reserved=0> for membership information.
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From JMGAGNON at nature.ca  Thu Nov  3 10:18:01 2022
From: JMGAGNON at nature.ca (Jean-Marc Gagnon)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 14:18:01 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] [EXT]Re:  vouchers
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <YQBPR0101MB4033479DEE4CB8CB58BCF8EBC6389@YQBPR0101MB4033.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

John,

In French, I would use ?specimen-t?moin?, but my French-speaking friends from the ?old continent? may have a better term.

Cheers,

Jean-Marc

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of John E Simmons
Sent: November 3, 2022 9:42 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [EXT]Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

COURRIEL EXTERNE. Ne cliquez sur aucun lien ou pi?ce jointe ? moins que vous ne connaissiez l'exp?diteur.
EXTERNAL EMAIL. Do not click any links or attachments unless you know the sender.
Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To ?vouch for? something or someone means ?to support their claim to truth?. If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey ? even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of ?voucher?, then, might be ?material evidence for a claim to truth?.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.
Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word ?voucher? used for?
There is voucher specimens ? that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples ? is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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From sarah.taylor at uconn.edu  Thu Nov  3 10:36:40 2022
From: sarah.taylor at uconn.edu (Taylor, Sarah)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 14:36:40 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR05MB708010BBAD22782964BFEC8083389@CH2PR05MB7080.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

And to add just a little bit more...

If a voucher is "a thing that confirms something," then in the broadest sense ALL natural history specimens (with collection data) are vouchers, as they confirm that an individual of a certain taxon existed at a specific place at a specific time.

But, yes, generally the term is applied in a narrower sense! And count me in as someone very curious about the terms for "voucher specimen" in non-English languages.

Cheers,
Sarah

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sarah Taylor, PhD


Collections Manager, CONN

George Safford Torrey Herbarium
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
University of Connecticut
75 North Eagleville Road, Unit 3043
Storrs, Connecticut 06269-3043
U.S.A.

P: 860.486.1889
F: 860.486.4320
http://bgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu/

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of John E Simmons
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:42 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*

Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To "vouch for" something or someone means "to support their claim to truth". If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey - even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of "voucher", then, might be "material evidence for a claim to truth".

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.
Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word "voucher" used for?
There is voucher specimens - that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples - is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ceddb0793bebb4ce36f3108dabda1386f%7C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080%7C0%7C0%7C638030797384805234%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BixpvSKDYZD9mfupj859Fm5HANwL%2FN5ezAPxFWQXp6I%3D&reserved=0>

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Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
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From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Thu Nov  3 10:41:41 2022
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 15:41:41 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f9bf3d52-f7be-7c10-fda1-821a201471cb@leibniz-lib.de>

in German, this would be a "belegexemplar"; "belegen" (among other meanings) has the meaning to documents the existence of something


Am 03.11.2022 um 14:41 schrieb John E Simmons:
Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To ?vouch for? something or someone means ?to support their claim to truth?. If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey ? even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of ?voucher?, then, might be ?material evidence for a claim to truth?.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.

Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word ?voucher? used for?
There is voucher specimens ? that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples ? is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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From tschioette at snm.ku.dk  Thu Nov  3 10:53:26 2022
From: tschioette at snm.ku.dk (=?utf-8?B?VG9tIFNjaGnDuHR0ZQ==?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 14:53:26 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <f9bf3d52-f7be-7c10-fda1-821a201471cb@leibniz-lib.de>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f9bf3d52-f7be-7c10-fda1-821a201471cb@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <685599888a32408f8aab6be0648d4379@snm.ku.dk>

And to follow up on Dirk, in Danish it is almost the same, ?bel?gseksemplar?, out of ??bel?g?, which means proof of something. We tend to use the word ?voucher? more nowadays, however.
Tom

Tom Schi?tte

Collection manager, Echinodermata & Mollusca
Natural History Museum of Denmark (Zoology)
Universitetsparken 15
DK 2100 Copenhagen OE

+45 35 32 10 48
TSchioette at snm.ku.dk<mailto:TSchioette at snm.ku.dk>



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Dirk Neumann
Sent: 3. november 2022 15:42
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

in German, this would be a "belegexemplar"; "belegen" (among other meanings) has the meaning to documents the existence of something


Am 03.11.2022 um 14:41 schrieb John E Simmons:
Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To ?vouch for? something or someone means ?to support their claim to truth?. If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey ? even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of ?voucher?, then, might be ?material evidence for a claim to truth?.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.

Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word ?voucher? used for?
There is voucher specimens ? that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples ? is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7CTSchioette%40snm.ku.dk%7C10dade52f51a4756f69008dabda98dcb%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C638030833173477351%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2B18RQxc9y5wGWmYTWnKiNM6%2BzHBcyx7fN9QwiS8uQ%2F4%3D&reserved=0>

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spnhc.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7CTSchioette%40snm.ku.dk%7C10dade52f51a4756f69008dabda98dcb%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C638030833173633563%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FbnnUAaa%2BL47kFg%2FCllY%2Bn0pC6qi0fSkIiDC3OfVDP4%3D&reserved=0> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



_______________________________________________

Nhcoll-l mailing list

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_______________________________________________

NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of

Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose

mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of

natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to

society. See http://www.spnhc.org<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spnhc.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7CTSchioette%40snm.ku.dk%7C10dade52f51a4756f69008dabda98dcb%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C638030833173633563%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FbnnUAaa%2BL47kFg%2FCllY%2Bn0pC6qi0fSkIiDC3OfVDP4%3D&reserved=0> for membership information.

Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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From l.e.johannessen at nhm.uio.no  Thu Nov  3 10:57:45 2022
From: l.e.johannessen at nhm.uio.no (Lars Erik Johannessen)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 14:57:45 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <685599888a32408f8aab6be0648d4379@snm.ku.dk>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f9bf3d52-f7be-7c10-fda1-821a201471cb@leibniz-lib.de>
 <685599888a32408f8aab6be0648d4379@snm.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <a5c17abfd4f94c2c82ac9f73f7df12dd@nhm.uio.no>

?Belegg? or ?beleggsemsemplar? is also what we use in Norway, i.e. the same word as in both German and Danish ? but also here ?voucher? is probably more often used nowadays??

Regards,
Lars Erik
-----------------------------------------
Dr. Lars Erik Johannessen
Collection manager
NHMO DNA Bank, Bird and Mammal Collections

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Tom Schi?tte
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:53 PM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

And to follow up on Dirk, in Danish it is almost the same, ?bel?gseksemplar?, out of ??bel?g?, which means proof of something. We tend to use the word ?voucher? more nowadays, however.
Tom

Tom Schi?tte

Collection manager, Echinodermata & Mollusca
Natural History Museum of Denmark (Zoology)
Universitetsparken 15
DK 2100 Copenhagen OE

+45 35 32 10 48
TSchioette at snm.ku.dk<mailto:TSchioette at snm.ku.dk>



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Dirk Neumann
Sent: 3. november 2022 15:42
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

in German, this would be a "belegexemplar"; "belegen" (among other meanings) has the meaning to documents the existence of something


Am 03.11.2022 um 14:41 schrieb John E Simmons:
Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To ?vouch for? something or someone means ?to support their claim to truth?. If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey ? even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of ?voucher?, then, might be ?material evidence for a claim to truth?.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.

Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word ?voucher? used for?
There is voucher specimens ? that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples ? is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
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--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
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Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Thu Nov  3 11:01:04 2022
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 15:01:04 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR05MB708010BBAD22782964BFEC8083389@CH2PR05MB7080.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CH2PR05MB708010BBAD22782964BFEC8083389@CH2PR05MB7080.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB522055CB95E5049433EB9194C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Sarah's statement indicates two things: "this specimen was collected at this time and place", so the specimen is certainly a voucher for that event, and "it belongs to a certain taxon", which is an opinion - subject to reappraisal at any time and thus not voucherable.

In the broadest sense - and any other sense - a collection thus does not contain vouchers for a species, just registers for names and evidence for hypotheses.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Taylor, Sarah <sarah.taylor at uconn.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 10:37 AM
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: RE: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers


External.
And to add just a little bit more...

If a voucher is "a thing that confirms something," then in the broadest sense ALL natural history specimens (with collection data) are vouchers, as they confirm that an individual of a certain taxon existed at a specific place at a specific time.

But, yes, generally the term is applied in a narrower sense! And count me in as someone very curious about the terms for "voucher specimen" in non-English languages.

Cheers,
Sarah

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sarah Taylor, PhD


Collections Manager, CONN

George Safford Torrey Herbarium
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
University of Connecticut
75 North Eagleville Road, Unit 3043
Storrs, Connecticut 06269-3043
U.S.A.

P: 860.486.1889
F: 860.486.4320
http://bgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C1e50d9ea51f1480f285608dabda8d3be%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030830062060813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=y%2F9ITJoHDkWx2rDIvxnkwsP%2FsomJkJl1xT0EiauqFYU%3D&reserved=0>

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of John E Simmons
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:42 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*

Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To "vouch for" something or someone means "to support their claim to truth". If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey - even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of "voucher", then, might be "material evidence for a claim to truth".

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.
Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word "voucher" used for?
There is voucher specimens - that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples - is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C1e50d9ea51f1480f285608dabda8d3be%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030830062060813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uwnhL0AScj4jQO0gzhdBp8ap8HZQN21Ti2iUqUSAEs4%3D&reserved=0>

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spnhc.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C1e50d9ea51f1480f285608dabda8d3be%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030830062060813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ip6L1ZTBB%2FPKHaXtTQ%2FWl5vyyuE9uOsYlJ3n9j8VR8E%3D&reserved=0> for membership information.
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From sarah.taylor at uconn.edu  Thu Nov  3 11:06:56 2022
From: sarah.taylor at uconn.edu (Taylor, Sarah)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 15:06:56 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB522055CB95E5049433EB9194C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CH2PR05MB708010BBAD22782964BFEC8083389@CH2PR05MB7080.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522055CB95E5049433EB9194C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <CH2PR05MB7080F89B192A1FFA0B847FE483389@CH2PR05MB7080.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Yes! Good clarification, thank you :)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sarah Taylor, PhD


Collections Manager, CONN

George Safford Torrey Herbarium
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
University of Connecticut
75 North Eagleville Road, Unit 3043
Storrs, Connecticut 06269-3043
U.S.A.

P: 860.486.1889
F: 860.486.4320
http://bgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu/

From: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 11:01 AM
To: Taylor, Sarah <sarah.taylor at uconn.edu>; John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: RE: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*

Sarah's statement indicates two things: "this specimen was collected at this time and place", so the specimen is certainly a voucher for that event, and "it belongs to a certain taxon", which is an opinion - subject to reappraisal at any time and thus not voucherable.

In the broadest sense - and any other sense - a collection thus does not contain vouchers for a species, just registers for names and evidence for hypotheses.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Taylor, Sarah <sarah.taylor at uconn.edu<mailto:sarah.taylor at uconn.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 10:37 AM
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers


External.
And to add just a little bit more...

If a voucher is "a thing that confirms something," then in the broadest sense ALL natural history specimens (with collection data) are vouchers, as they confirm that an individual of a certain taxon existed at a specific place at a specific time.

But, yes, generally the term is applied in a narrower sense! And count me in as someone very curious about the terms for "voucher specimen" in non-English languages.

Cheers,
Sarah

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sarah Taylor, PhD


Collections Manager, CONN

George Safford Torrey Herbarium
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
University of Connecticut
75 North Eagleville Road, Unit 3043
Storrs, Connecticut 06269-3043
U.S.A.

P: 860.486.1889
F: 860.486.4320
http://bgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C50b5b37db9c7417431d408dabdac3be4%7C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080%7C0%7C0%7C638030844700309412%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=e518zatflXgfWwhnI2BPJMOdvUgpZwEBxkikl%2FYQwdY%3D&reserved=0>

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of John E Simmons
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:42 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*

Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To "vouch for" something or someone means "to support their claim to truth". If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey - even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of "voucher", then, might be "material evidence for a claim to truth".

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.
Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word "voucher" used for?
There is voucher specimens - that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples - is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
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From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Thu Nov  3 11:09:49 2022
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 16:09:49 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB522055CB95E5049433EB9194C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CH2PR05MB708010BBAD22782964BFEC8083389@CH2PR05MB7080.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522055CB95E5049433EB9194C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <639a78ed-5ea5-2df7-5ebf-9d58288807ca@leibniz-lib.de>

... where the Germanic word "beleg" would be in both aspects closer as the Latin-based voucher ...


Am 03.11.2022 um 16:01 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
Sarah?s statement indicates two things: ?this specimen was collected at this time and place?, so the specimen is certainly a voucher for that event, and ?it belongs to a certain taxon?, which is an opinion ? subject to reappraisal at any time and thus not voucherable.

In the broadest sense ? and any other sense ? a collection thus does not contain vouchers for a species, just registers for names and evidence for hypotheses.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Taylor, Sarah <sarah.taylor at uconn.edu><mailto:sarah.taylor at uconn.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 10:37 AM
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com><mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers


External.

And to add just a little bit more?

If a voucher is ?a thing that confirms something,? then in the broadest sense ALL natural history specimens (with collection data) are vouchers, as they confirm that an individual of a certain taxon existed at a specific place at a specific time.

But, yes, generally the term is applied in a narrower sense! And count me in as someone very curious about the terms for ?voucher specimen? in non-English languages.

Cheers,
Sarah

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sarah Taylor, PhD


Collections Manager, CONN

George Safford Torrey Herbarium
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
University of Connecticut
75 North Eagleville Road, Unit 3043
Storrs, Connecticut 06269-3043
U.S.A.

P: 860.486.1889
F: 860.486.4320
http://bgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C1e50d9ea51f1480f285608dabda8d3be%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030830062060813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=y%2F9ITJoHDkWx2rDIvxnkwsP%2FsomJkJl1xT0EiauqFYU%3D&reserved=0>

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of John E Simmons
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:42 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*

Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To ?vouch for? something or someone means ?to support their claim to truth?. If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey ? even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of ?voucher?, then, might be ?material evidence for a claim to truth?.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.

Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word ?voucher? used for?
There is voucher specimens ? that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples ? is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C1e50d9ea51f1480f285608dabda8d3be%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030830062060813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uwnhL0AScj4jQO0gzhdBp8ap8HZQN21Ti2iUqUSAEs4%3D&reserved=0>

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spnhc.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C1e50d9ea51f1480f285608dabda8d3be%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030830062060813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ip6L1ZTBB%2FPKHaXtTQ%2FWl5vyyuE9uOsYlJ3n9j8VR8E%3D&reserved=0> for membership information.
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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
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Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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From dlewis at iastate.edu  Thu Nov  3 11:34:30 2022
From: dlewis at iastate.edu (Lewis, Deborah A [EEOB])
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 15:34:30 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB522055CB95E5049433EB9194C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CH2PR05MB708010BBAD22782964BFEC8083389@CH2PR05MB7080.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522055CB95E5049433EB9194C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR04MB5320DCBD01B98552418A0595DF389@BYAPR04MB5320.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

So do I understand correctly that (previously and newly collected) specimens assessed, cited in a monograph (or revision or Flora) and annotated as such are not "vouchers" for the study? (Yes, I know that they're typically listed in the monograph and on the annotation label as "specimen(s) examined" or similar, but I have considered them to be vouchers in that their measurements, DNA sequences, etc confirm the data presented in the descriptions in the monograph or other similar work.)
Deb

Deborah Q. Lewis, Curator
Ada Hayden Herbarium (ISC/IA)
Ecology, Evolution and Organismal Biology (EEOB) Department         Email: dlewis at iastate.edu
319 Bessey Hall                                                                                                Phone:  515-294-9499
Iowa State University                                                                                     FAX:  515-294-1337
2200 Osborn Drive
Ames, IA  50011-4009
  She/Her
    The Ada Hayden Herbarium:  Celebrating 150+ Years (1870-2020)

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Callomon,Paul
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 10:01 AM
To: Taylor, Sarah <sarah.taylor at uconn.edu>; John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

Sarah's statement indicates two things: "this specimen was collected at this time and place", so the specimen is certainly a voucher for that event, and "it belongs to a certain taxon", which is an opinion - subject to reappraisal at any time and thus not voucherable.

In the broadest sense - and any other sense - a collection thus does not contain vouchers for a species, just registers for names and evidence for hypotheses.

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Taylor, Sarah <sarah.taylor at uconn.edu<mailto:sarah.taylor at uconn.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 10:37 AM
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com<mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers


External.
And to add just a little bit more...

If a voucher is "a thing that confirms something," then in the broadest sense ALL natural history specimens (with collection data) are vouchers, as they confirm that an individual of a certain taxon existed at a specific place at a specific time.

But, yes, generally the term is applied in a narrower sense! And count me in as someone very curious about the terms for "voucher specimen" in non-English languages.

Cheers,
Sarah

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Sarah Taylor, PhD


Collections Manager, CONN

George Safford Torrey Herbarium
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
University of Connecticut
75 North Eagleville Road, Unit 3043
Storrs, Connecticut 06269-3043
U.S.A.

P: 860.486.1889
F: 860.486.4320
http://bgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbgbaseserver.eeb.uconn.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C1e50d9ea51f1480f285608dabda8d3be%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030830062060813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=y%2F9ITJoHDkWx2rDIvxnkwsP%2FsomJkJl1xT0EiauqFYU%3D&reserved=0>

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of John E Simmons
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:42 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*

Just to add a note to Paul's excellent explanation--it may be useful to you to look at the origin of the word "voucher" to better understand its meaning.

Voucher comes from the Latin word vocare, which means "to call." The best definition for voucher in the Oxford English Dictionary is "a fact, circumstance, or thing to confirm or prove something," which is why we use voucher in the ways that Paul described, to refer to specimens that have been used in research to support the claims of the research. Voucher can also mean such things as to summon someone to court to give evidence, etc. But if you think of voucher as "a thing that confirms something," its meaning in the phrase voucher specimen is clear.

There is an equivalent word for voucher in Spanish, comprobante, but I have noticed that most Spanish speakers (at least those in Latin America) prefer to use the word voucher when referring to scientific specimens because it carries a more specific meaning and because it is derived from Latin, it is easily adapted to Spanish.

I am curious to know what a voucher specimen is called in other languages. German, French, Norwegian, Japanese, Chinese?

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 8:23 AM Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> wrote:
To "vouch for" something or someone means "to support their claim to truth". If I vouch for your trustworthiness, I support your claim to that quality.

Voucher specimens also support claims to truth that are either published or in some way codified. For example: if I write a paper about mollusks from Bermuda, then all the specimens I mention in it become vouchers for that paper. In the future, anyone who is interested can look at them and see what I was working with.

Vouchers need not be for a published work, but usually refer to a defined study or event. All the material collected in a field survey, for example, are vouchers for that survey - even if nothing about it is published. They support the claim that the survey was carried out and that those species were collected.

Specimens in a general collection, even fine ones, are therefore not vouchers until someone has said something specifically about them or they belong to a named group such as material from an expedition.

A loose definition of "voucher", then, might be "material evidence for a claim to truth".

PC


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170




From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lennart Lennuk
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 3:03 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher


External.
Hi!

Just to clear it up in my mind. What is word "voucher" used for?
There is voucher specimens - that means top specimens of a certain species?
Then vouchers when we speak a parts of specimen, like feathers, bloodsamples - is it only in zoology?
And then also eDNA Voucher.

Sorry for a little messy wording.

Best regards!
Lennart Lennuk
Head of collections
Estonian Museum of Natural History
+372 6603404, 56569916

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C1e50d9ea51f1480f285608dabda8d3be%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030830062060813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uwnhL0AScj4jQO0gzhdBp8ap8HZQN21Ti2iUqUSAEs4%3D&reserved=0>

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spnhc.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C1e50d9ea51f1480f285608dabda8d3be%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C0%7C638030830062060813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ip6L1ZTBB%2FPKHaXtTQ%2FWl5vyyuE9uOsYlJ3n9j8VR8E%3D&reserved=0> for membership information.
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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Thu Nov  3 11:43:27 2022
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 15:43:27 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR04MB5320DCBD01B98552418A0595DF389@BYAPR04MB5320.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CH2PR05MB708010BBAD22782964BFEC8083389@CH2PR05MB7080.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522055CB95E5049433EB9194C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <BYAPR04MB5320DCBD01B98552418A0595DF389@BYAPR04MB5320.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB522056E4012417BF61191A04C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

If specimens are cited in a study, then they're vouchers for that study. Whether people later use different techniques to analyze them than were used in the original study (or no-one ever looks at them again) does not alter their status. The whole point of keeping vouchers is to allow reassessment of hypotheses that are based on them by reassembling the original evidence. The voucher sleeps until the hypothesis is reexamined (or, in Latourian terms, the "black box" is reopened).

To call DNA snips "vouchers" just because they allow a certain kind of analysis is a misnomer; if the specimen itself is a voucher for an expedition then the snip is part of that voucher. Otherwise, cutting the snip and keeping it frozen is just an alternate form of preservation, the same as keeping a shell in with the shells and its mounted radula in with the microscope slides.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Lewis, Deborah A [EEOB]
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 11:35 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers


External.
So do I understand correctly that (previously and newly collected) specimens assessed, cited in a monograph (or revision or Flora) and annotated as such are not "vouchers" for the study? (Yes, I know that they're typically listed in the monograph and on the annotation label as "specimen(s) examined" or similar, but I have considered them to be vouchers in that their measurements, DNA sequences, etc confirm the data presented in the descriptions in the monograph or other similar work.)
Deb

Deborah Q. Lewis, Curator
Ada Hayden Herbarium (ISC/IA)
Ecology, Evolution and Organismal Biology (EEOB) Department         Email: dlewis at iastate.edu<mailto:dlewis at iastate.edu>
319 Bessey Hall                                                                                                Phone:  515-294-9499
Iowa State University                                                                                     FAX:  515-294-1337
2200 Osborn Drive
Ames, IA  50011-4009
  She/Her
    The Ada Hayden Herbarium:  Celebrating 150+ Years (1870-2020)
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From dlewis at iastate.edu  Thu Nov  3 11:50:37 2022
From: dlewis at iastate.edu (Lewis, Deborah A [EEOB])
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 15:50:37 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB522056E4012417BF61191A04C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <BL0PR01MB5220392879963BD467E1BCB1C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDbfRj=wVspBF1UqxRYrVw7EfnxZ4ctL3cuugektg+O8Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CH2PR05MB708010BBAD22782964BFEC8083389@CH2PR05MB7080.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522055CB95E5049433EB9194C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <BYAPR04MB5320DCBD01B98552418A0595DF389@BYAPR04MB5320.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522056E4012417BF61191A04C3389@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR04MB5320DA6DE98A40DA4C00F69ADF389@BYAPR04MB5320.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks for clarifying!
Deb

From: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 10:43 AM
To: Lewis, Deborah A [EEOB] <dlewis at iastate.edu>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: RE: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers

If specimens are cited in a study, then they're vouchers for that study. Whether people later use different techniques to analyze them than were used in the original study (or no-one ever looks at them again) does not alter their status. The whole point of keeping vouchers is to allow reassessment of hypotheses that are based on them by reassembling the original evidence. The voucher sleeps until the hypothesis is reexamined (or, in Latourian terms, the "black box" is reopened).

To call DNA snips "vouchers" just because they allow a certain kind of analysis is a misnomer; if the specimen itself is a voucher for an expedition then the snip is part of that voucher. Otherwise, cutting the snip and keeping it frozen is just an alternate form of preservation, the same as keeping a shell in with the shells and its mounted radula in with the microscope slides.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Lewis, Deborah A [EEOB]
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 11:35 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] vouchers


External.
So do I understand correctly that (previously and newly collected) specimens assessed, cited in a monograph (or revision or Flora) and annotated as such are not "vouchers" for the study? (Yes, I know that they're typically listed in the monograph and on the annotation label as "specimen(s) examined" or similar, but I have considered them to be vouchers in that their measurements, DNA sequences, etc confirm the data presented in the descriptions in the monograph or other similar work.)
Deb

Deborah Q. Lewis, Curator
Ada Hayden Herbarium (ISC/IA)
Ecology, Evolution and Organismal Biology (EEOB) Department         Email: dlewis at iastate.edu<mailto:dlewis at iastate.edu>
319 Bessey Hall                                                                                                Phone:  515-294-9499
Iowa State University                                                                                     FAX:  515-294-1337
2200 Osborn Drive
Ames, IA  50011-4009
  She/Her
    The Ada Hayden Herbarium:  Celebrating 150+ Years (1870-2020)
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From dyanega at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 13:52:57 2022
From: dyanega at gmail.com (Douglas Yanega)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 10:52:57 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher
In-Reply-To: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
Message-ID: <dcfce8f4-cbc3-2f1d-957b-981a71aea19f@gmail.com>

Type specimens are a special kind of voucher, in the sense that there 
are formal rules governing their designation and deposition, under 
various Codes (ICNafp, ICZN).

That's really all that they are, despite the formal categorization and 
status. Of all the categories, of course, the one that has the least 
nomenclatural signficance ("paratypes") is most akin to the general 
understanding of vouchers; *paratypes collectively provide evidence for 
how the original author perceived the circumscription of their new 
taxon*. They have no status nomenclaturally - and, in fact, if one was 
to need a replacement for a lost holotype, you might NOT want to use a 
paratype - but they can be very important taxonomically; after all, if a 
holotype is an adult male (or female), then the paratypes can include 
the other sex, or immature stages, and that can be very valuable.

Peace,

-- 
Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314     skype: dyanega
phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
              https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
   "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
         is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Thu Nov  3 14:12:03 2022
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 18:12:03 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher
In-Reply-To: <dcfce8f4-cbc3-2f1d-957b-981a71aea19f@gmail.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <dcfce8f4-cbc3-2f1d-957b-981a71aea19f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1C6F2377-B804-4D32-9288-B23BCC542FD5@btinternet.com>

Thanks Doug,

If we?re getting into type designations, I though that paratypes were the other specimens collected with the holotype, and that if the holotype was a female then a male allotrope would be designated as well if both sexes were present.  If no holotype was described (unusual these days) then the original collection would be syntypes?

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 3 Nov 2022, at 17:52, Douglas Yanega <dyanega at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Type specimens are a special kind of voucher, in the sense that there are formal rules governing their designation and deposition, under various Codes (ICNafp, ICZN).
> That's really all that they are, despite the formal categorization and status. Of all the categories, of course, the one that has the least nomenclatural signficance ("paratypes") is most akin to the general understanding of vouchers; paratypes collectively provide evidence for how the original author perceived the circumscription of their new taxon. They have no status nomenclaturally - and, in fact, if one was to need a replacement for a lost holotype, you might NOT want to use a paratype - but they can be very important taxonomically; after all, if a holotype is an adult male (or female), then the paratypes can include the other sex, or immature stages, and that can be very valuable.
> 
> Peace,
> 
> -- 
> Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314     skype: dyanega
> phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
>              
> https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
> 
>   "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
>         is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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From dyanega at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 15:12:34 2022
From: dyanega at gmail.com (Douglas Yanega)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2022 12:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] voucher
In-Reply-To: <1C6F2377-B804-4D32-9288-B23BCC542FD5@btinternet.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <dcfce8f4-cbc3-2f1d-957b-981a71aea19f@gmail.com>
 <1C6F2377-B804-4D32-9288-B23BCC542FD5@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1595dce1-324d-b179-0603-1319f0715682@gmail.com>

On 11/3/22 11:12 AM, Simon Moore wrote:
> Thanks Doug,
>
> If we?re getting into type designations, I though that paratypes were 
> the other specimens collected with the holotype, and that if the 
> holotype was a female then a male allotrope would be designated as 
> well if both sexes were present. ?If no holotype was described 
> (unusual these days) then the original collection would be syntypes?

Types in zoology and botany are slightly different, so I'll give the 
minimal info for zoology. Paratypes are any specimens from any source 
that the author states are specimens of a new taxon in that original 
paper, and ONLY in that original paper. They may or may not be the same 
sex or life stage as the holotype, or from the same geographic region. 
Designation of one specific paratype as an "allotype" is a practice not 
endorsed by the ICZN Code; it is an archaic practice, and we discourage 
it because it confuses people into assuming that those specimens are 
important in some way, and they aren't. Once a description of a new 
species is published, an author cannot designate more paratypes, nor can 
other authors.

Syntypes are either when no single specimen was selected from among the 
original material used for a description, *or* when an author 
intentionally designated multiple types in addition to having a set of 
paratypes. It isn't done very often any more, but it can actually be 
useful under *very* specific circumstances. For example, if I captured a 
*mating pair* (in copulo) of an insect I decided was a new species, 
having BOTH specimens as syntypes is preferrable, because they are then 
both curated more carefully (often physically separate from the rest of 
the collection), and if one is lost, the other still exists. Also, in 
the very, VERY unlikely event that this was a hybrid coupling, a 
subsequent author would be *free to choose* which one to make the 
lectotype.

Peace,

-- 
Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314     skype: dyanega
phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
              https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
   "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
         is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
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From simmons.johne at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 11:36:58 2022
From: simmons.johne at gmail.com (John E Simmons)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2022 11:36:58 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] =?utf-8?q?Terra_incognita_in_anatomical_museology?=
	=?utf-8?q?=E2=80=94A_literature_review_from_the_perspective_of_evi?=
	=?utf-8?q?dence-based_care?=
Message-ID: <CAF7GCDY4LGZZ5XMLHfe7_topBD-yo=Ujt2gSHSAEFu2H0mF=eQ@mail.gmail.com>

For a limited time (until 23 December) anyone interested can download a PDF
of an forthcoming article on medical museum museology. I am grateful to my
Polish colleagues for kindly inviting me to participate in this interesting
project.



The URL for free download is:
https://authors.elsevier.com/c/1g19O3LynVnxY5



Reference:

Jurand Doma?ski, Zygmunt Domagala, John E. Simmons, and Marta Wanat. 2022.
Terra incognita in anatomical museology?A literature review from the
perspective of evidence-based care. *Annals of Anatomy* volume 245.



--John


John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
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From aresetar at fieldmuseum.org  Fri Nov  4 15:51:54 2022
From: aresetar at fieldmuseum.org (Alan Resetar)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2022 14:51:54 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens
In-Reply-To: <635E4581020000B3000A50A8@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
References: <CO6PR06MB7635E7569D97DF4FFC80DDD7CB339@CO6PR06MB7635.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <MWHPR01MB32645DE6BCDB730AC9F0DB86B2329@MWHPR01MB3264.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <BL3PR08MB741984D77A7EB4DDADC9B6A4DA329@BL3PR08MB7419.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
 <635E4581020000B3000A50A8@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <CAJfVd1JuoW_5CX+2ex1cgPivV3=PAicWuUSYU34LnmorthzJtA@mail.gmail.com>

Joachim's methods of putting the label stock through the printer twice or
using an iron to set the toner are good suggestions. There is a setting on
some (all?) laser printers where the user can adjust the fuser temperature.
The fuser bonds the pigment to the paper. Adjusting this setting higher
should help strengthen the toner/paper bond. We use a heat press for
putting graphics on t-shirts to get the label stock up to about 375 degrees
F for about 15 seconds. This creates a solid bond. Photo attached.

*Alan Resetar*
Associate, Gantz Family Collections Center
Amphibian and Reptile Collection
Field Museum
1400 S. DuSable Lake Shore Dr.
Chicago, IL 60605
fieldmuseum.org




Check out our collection website at
http://fieldmuseum.org/explore/department/zoology/amphibians-and-reptiles
and our collection database at
http://collections-zoology.fieldmuseum.org/list?f%5B0%5D=ss_CatCatalog%3A%22Amphibians%20and%20Reptiles%22
<((((( ???'?.??.???'?.?.???'?.??.???'?.??.???'?.??.???'?.??.?? ? >---
<       ~~>>))))));>



On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 4:36 AM Joachim H?ndel <
Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I`ve been following these discussions for several years.
>
> Actually, labels from classic laser printers could also be suitable. The
> black toner is chemically harmless and resistant to aging. The problem,
> however, is that the toner is only on the surface of the paper and the
> letters may dissolute off the paper after some time. One way to improve
> this situation is to run the paper through the printer a second time (like
> printing a blank page) or to re-fix the labels with an iron. My tests have
> shown no problems with such labels (in tests, the labels were shaken in
> bottles of Et-OH for two weeks - with lab-shakers).
>
> A promising alternative could be the use of synthetic "paper" - paper of
> synthetic high-density polyethylene fibers or poyethylene film.
> Meanwhile, such polyethylene paper is available in age-resistant quality
> (European archive standard ISO 9706).
> At this "paper", the toner apparently bonds insolubly to the surface. It
> is resistant to a variety of solvents (including alcohol and additives such
> as butanone and denatonium).
>
> I'm running some tests on it right now.
>
> Many greetings
> Joachim
>
> --
> Joachim Haendel
>
> Center of Natural Sciences Collections
> of the Martin Luther University
> - Entomological Collection -
>
> Domplatz 4
> D-06099 Halle (Saale)
> Germany
>
> Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
> Fax:  +49 345 - 55 27 248
> Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de
>
>
>
> >>> "Lazo-Wasem, Eric" <eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu> 28.10.2022, 18:11 >>>
>
> I too have used multiple versions of the Datamax printers (six or seven
> units), particularly the I-Class versions for about 20 years, all purchased
> from Alpha Systems.  My assessment:
>
>
>
> PRINT HEAD CONDITION IS KEY.  Once they wear out, about all you can do is
> shift your printing to a different side if feasible.  For example, we
> mainly print one 2? x 3? label on 4? wide preservation tag, and various
> variants smaller.  When a print head wore excessively on the left, we
> shifted the label template (all in Word) to print farther to the right;
> this bought us another year or two.  One workhorse printed 50K 1? x 3?
> microscope tray labels (fit directly under the slide with full data) in
> less than three years, so the units really last.  Finding a cutter is very
> important to reduce waste.  If you can find a unit that has not been used
> beyond normal service life (we generally would by a new unit to phase in
> after about 6 years or so) and use settings trickery and the label shift I
> described above, I am sure you can get good quality labels with a used unit.
>
>
>
> I have used 180, 300, and 600 dpi versions. I bought one 600 dpi version
> and do not like it nearly as much as the 300 dpi; for our purposes print
> quality was actually better.  For our 0.75? x 1.75? labels (go into 2 dram
> vial) we use 6 point type and find that 600 dpi makes the letters too fine
> and hard to read.  With 300 dpi, Franklin Gothic Medium produces crisp,
> non-embellished text.  For the 600 dpi we had to switch to a bolder font
> and now the labels are acceptable.
>
>
>
> I have no experience with the CAB Squid printers and hope to retire before
> I have to switch to something new!
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> * On Behalf Of *Bentley,
> Andrew Charles
> *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2022 10:21 AM
> *To:* Andrews, Tom <Tom_Andrews1 at baylor.edu>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens
>
>
>
> Hi Tom
>
>
>
> I think the correct brand for these printers is Datamax which was taken
> over by Honeywell.  We have been using Datamax printers for over 15 years
> here at KU and have had no issues with the two models we have used ?
> Prodigy Max and the I-Class Mark II.  They were both very reliable with
> little to no down time or need for repairs. We are still using the I-Class
> Mark II and it has been going strong for over 10 years now servicing
> multiple divisions at the museum through a network connection.
>
>
>
> I have heard that newer generations of these printers produced by
> Honeywell are nowhere near as reliable and have numerous issues.  The
> company that supplied our Datamax printers, Alpha Systems, has since
> stopped recommending these printers and moved over to CAB Squib printers
> instead (see attached), that are supposed to be much more reliable and user
> friendly.  Their pricing and recommendations are also attached.
>
>
>
> I have not heard of anyone buying a used Datamax printer, but, if treated
> correctly, Datamax printers can last a long time and as such, if you are
> able to get your hands on a second hand Datamax I-series printer (the
> Prodigy Max is very outdated now) and funds are scarce, I would suggest
> that you go for it (from a quick search it looks like they run about
> $1000-1300 on eBay and other sites).  It also looks like new ones are still
> to be had at a discount like here:
> https://www.barcodediscount.com/catalog/datamax-o-neil/part-i13-00-43000007.htm
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.barcodediscount.com%2Fcatalog%2Fdatamax-o-neil%2Fpart-i13-00-43000007.htm&data=05%7C01%7Ceal5%40connect.yale.edu%7C759642a7118c45a8ca4e08dab8efbc93%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C638025637231181236%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zZEBgRckscTdz3Yn3WwHDeMyfoyyIjlfIlzQ95S28SE%3D&reserved=0>.
> Just a heads up that network cards and optional cutters may not be included
> but can probably be found as aftermarket add ons.  Also, I would suggest
> that you purchase a 300 dpi or higher (model I-4310 or I-4606) to get the
> best quality print.  Also make sure that you are buying one that predates
> the Honeywell takeover.  However, if you can afford the attached, I would
> suggest going with a new CAB printer and save the hassle of not knowing the
> condition of a second hand printer.  The print head is the most important
> part of the printer and the most expensive to replace.  If this has been
> damaged or over used in any way, the printer may be useless.  It is
> important to keep the print head free from dust or other contaminants in
> order to ensure good printing quality but other than that, the printer
> requires very little if any maintenance.  They can be a little tricky to
> set up initially and to get the settings just right for ideal print quality
> but there are lots of people in the museum community using them now so that
> should not be a problem.  Ribbon and media can be ordered through Alpha
> System regardless of whether you buy a printer from them.
>
>
>
> Hope that helps
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>     A  :             A  :             A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>     V                V                V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
>
> Dyche Hall
> 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> USA
>
> Tel: (785) 864-3863
> Fax: (785) 864-5335
> Email: abentley at ku.edu
>
> ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0002-3093-1258&data=05%7C01%7Ceal5%40connect.yale.edu%7C759642a7118c45a8ca4e08dab8efbc93%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C638025637231181236%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wkl3n%2B%2B7jP0UZqp7hVoJwbga5RvXEC1nULTdPBXMdH4%3D&reserved=0>
>
> http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ceal5%40connect.yale.edu%7C759642a7118c45a8ca4e08dab8efbc93%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C638025637231181236%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mu3tIRoTz59FZfNoL0lYjPn4fBsJ1gum%2FxR1gLUG%2Bz4%3D&reserved=0>
>
>     A  :             A  :             A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>     V                V                V
>
>
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> *On Behalf Of *Andrews,
> Tom
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2022 11:27 AM
> *To:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* [Nhcoll-l] Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens
>
>
>
> Hello Colleagues,
>
>
>
> We have a fairly sizable backlog of fluid preserved specimens that we need
> to make labels for. (Vast majority are in a 55% solution of IPA) In the
> past, we had used a typewriter that was proven to give good results even
> after decades in fluid (many labels made on this machine dating back to the
> 1960?s still look as good as when they were made) but at some point it was
> discovered that modern ribbons are of a different spec and no longer stand
> up well in fluid. As a result, we have handwritten our labels for several
> years but now need to come up with something more manageable for labelling
> several hundred specimens.
>
>
>
> In reading through past messages here and other literature on the topic,
> it appears that Thermal Transfer printers are the way to go, but it seems
> that the Duramax which are usually recommended are no longer produced and
> the Honeywell printers appear to be a not totally satisfactory replacement.
> A quick search shows that the Duramax printers are readily available
> second-hand. My idea was to try to acquire one of these since they are a
> known quantity and as an added bonus much less costly than the new printers.
>
>
>
> My question is, has anyone gone this route before and to those who have
> used the Duramax over the years, is it feasible to maintain them without
> outside assistance?
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Tom Andrews
>
> Collections Assistant
>
> Tom_Andrews1 at baylor.edu
>
> 254-710-1194
>
> Mayborn Museum Complex
>
> Baylor University
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Fri Nov  4 21:24:32 2022
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2022 01:24:32 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens
In-Reply-To: <CAJfVd1JuoW_5CX+2ex1cgPivV3=PAicWuUSYU34LnmorthzJtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CO6PR06MB7635E7569D97DF4FFC80DDD7CB339@CO6PR06MB7635.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <MWHPR01MB32645DE6BCDB730AC9F0DB86B2329@MWHPR01MB3264.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <BL3PR08MB741984D77A7EB4DDADC9B6A4DA329@BL3PR08MB7419.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
 <635E4581020000B3000A50A8@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
 <CAJfVd1JuoW_5CX+2ex1cgPivV3=PAicWuUSYU34LnmorthzJtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB52209A90AF1BEE7A8AB846DDC33A9@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

We have been printing wet labels with regular laser printers (commercial grade; our current one is an HP3015DN) on laundry tag paper for more than 20 years. There has been no detachment or other durability issue in 70-80% ethanol over that time frame.


Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University, Philadelphia
callomon at ansp.org Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

________________________________

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From rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu  Mon Nov  7 08:58:49 2022
From: rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu (Rob Robins)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 13:58:49 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens
In-Reply-To: <CAJfVd1JuoW_5CX+2ex1cgPivV3=PAicWuUSYU34LnmorthzJtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CO6PR06MB7635E7569D97DF4FFC80DDD7CB339@CO6PR06MB7635.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <MWHPR01MB32645DE6BCDB730AC9F0DB86B2329@MWHPR01MB3264.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <BL3PR08MB741984D77A7EB4DDADC9B6A4DA329@BL3PR08MB7419.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
 <635E4581020000B3000A50A8@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
 <CAJfVd1JuoW_5CX+2ex1cgPivV3=PAicWuUSYU34LnmorthzJtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR2201MB136184B43328B92FC71EC528813C9@BN6PR2201MB1361.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

If a collection prints a thousand or more labels per annum, managers at said collection might wish to weigh the opportunity cost of having staff ironing labels or running labels through a printer a second time (clever adaptations!) vs. other things they could be doing with that time. E.g., sorting and identification of specimens, making improvements to collection records, independent research, etc.

True, upfront costs of thermal transfer print systems are not insubstantial. Including a good supply of ribbon and label media, upfront costs are ~$5k.

But this is largely a one-time expense, whereas staff time is a continuing one.

(We have yet to "kill" a datamax printer; only changeout in a dozen years was electing to buy a higher resolution model).

Once up and running, thermal transfer printer systems like those touted by Andy Bentley and others produce labels rapidly and in great volumes. Add a cutter to the system, et voila...you've truly maximized the benefits of a label printing technology that improves operational efficiency.

Best wishes,

Rob Robins

Robert H. Robins
Collection Manager
Division of Ichthyology
[FLMNH Fishes logo email small]
Florida Museum
1659 Museum Rd.
Gainesville, FL 32611-7800
Office: (352) 273-1957
rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu<mailto:rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu>

The UF Fish Collection is moving:
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/

Search the Collection:
http://specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/

Search samples suitable for dna analysis:
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Alan Resetar
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2022 3:52 PM
To: Joachim H?ndel <Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de>; NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens

[External Email]
Joachim's methods of putting the label stock through the printer twice or using an iron to set the toner are good suggestions. There is a setting on some (all?) laser printers where the user can adjust the fuser temperature. The fuser bonds the pigment to the paper. Adjusting this setting higher should help strengthen the toner/paper bond. We use a heat press for putting graphics on t-shirts to get the label stock up to about 375 degrees F for about 15 seconds. This creates a solid bond. Photo attached.

Alan Resetar
Associate, Gantz Family Collections Center
Amphibian and Reptile Collection
Field Museum
1400 S. DuSable Lake Shore Dr.
Chicago, IL 60605
fieldmuseum.org<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffieldmuseum.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Crhrobins%40flmnh.ufl.edu%7Ccd107239859544d2598d08dabe9e27a0%7C0d4da0f84a314d76ace60a62331e1b84%7C0%7C0%7C638031883764695532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=aFXz0JyffhPNpRItBGQd4yDIVOr%2BQr9jJPWVBbaUxBc%3D&reserved=0>


[https://www.fieldmuseum.org/sites/default/files/field-museum-logo_2018.png]

Check out our collection website at http://fieldmuseum.org/explore/department/zoology/amphibians-and-reptiles<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffieldmuseum.org%2Fexplore%2Fdepartment%2Fzoology%2Famphibians-and-reptiles&data=05%7C01%7Crhrobins%40flmnh.ufl.edu%7Ccd107239859544d2598d08dabe9e27a0%7C0d4da0f84a314d76ace60a62331e1b84%7C0%7C0%7C638031883764695532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RlBdAIaEiFFo%2BZcyvGhlK0rmPhNJ7vFHXHwW9FBI9Jc%3D&reserved=0>
and our collection database at http://collections-zoology.fieldmuseum.org/list?f%5B0%5D=ss_CatCatalog%3A%22Amphibians%20and%20Reptiles%22<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcollections-zoology.fieldmuseum.org%2Flist%3Ff%255B0%255D%3Dss_CatCatalog%253A%2522Amphibians%2520and%2520Reptiles%2522&data=05%7C01%7Crhrobins%40flmnh.ufl.edu%7Ccd107239859544d2598d08dabe9e27a0%7C0d4da0f84a314d76ace60a62331e1b84%7C0%7C0%7C638031883764695532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HNbJSvf2MNli4Y4sd1Rc0MAXLDC%2BjqCNo60%2Bxf%2BQmeo%3D&reserved=0>
<((((( ???'?.??.???'?.?.???'?.??.???'?.??.???'?.??.???'?.??.?? ? >--- <       ~~>>))))));>



On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 4:36 AM Joachim H?ndel <Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de<mailto:Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de>> wrote:

Hello all,

I`ve been following these discussions for several years.

Actually, labels from classic laser printers could also be suitable. The black toner is chemically harmless and resistant to aging. The problem, however, is that the toner is only on the surface of the paper and the letters may dissolute off the paper after some time. One way to improve this situation is to run the paper through the printer a second time (like printing a blank page) or to re-fix the labels with an iron. My tests have shown no problems with such labels (in tests, the labels were shaken in bottles of Et-OH for two weeks - with lab-shakers).

A promising alternative could be the use of synthetic "paper" - paper of synthetic high-density polyethylene fibers or poyethylene film.
Meanwhile, such polyethylene paper is available in age-resistant quality (European archive standard ISO 9706).
At this "paper", the toner apparently bonds insolubly to the surface. It is resistant to a variety of solvents (including alcohol and additives such as butanone and denatonium).

I'm running some tests on it right now.

Many greetings
Joachim

--
Joachim Haendel

Center of Natural Sciences Collections
of the Martin Luther University
- Entomological Collection -

Domplatz 4
D-06099 Halle (Saale)
Germany

Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
Fax:  +49 345 - 55 27 248
Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de<mailto:joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de>



>>> "Lazo-Wasem, Eric" <eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu<mailto:eric.lazo-wasem at yale.edu>> 28.10.2022, 18:11 >>>
I too have used multiple versions of the Datamax printers (six or seven units), particularly the I-Class versions for about 20 years, all purchased from Alpha Systems.  My assessment:

PRINT HEAD CONDITION IS KEY.  Once they wear out, about all you can do is shift your printing to a different side if feasible.  For example, we mainly print one 2" x 3" label on 4" wide preservation tag, and various variants smaller.  When a print head wore excessively on the left, we shifted the label template (all in Word) to print farther to the right; this bought us another year or two.  One workhorse printed 50K 1" x 3" microscope tray labels (fit directly under the slide with full data) in less than three years, so the units really last.  Finding a cutter is very important to reduce waste.  If you can find a unit that has not been used beyond normal service life (we generally would by a new unit to phase in after about 6 years or so) and use settings trickery and the label shift I described above, I am sure you can get good quality labels with a used unit.

I have used 180, 300, and 600 dpi versions. I bought one 600 dpi version and do not like it nearly as much as the 300 dpi; for our purposes print quality was actually better.  For our 0.75" x 1.75" labels (go into 2 dram vial) we use 6 point type and find that 600 dpi makes the letters too fine and hard to read.  With 300 dpi, Franklin Gothic Medium produces crisp, non-embellished text.  For the 600 dpi we had to switch to a bolder font and now the labels are acceptable.

I have no experience with the CAB Squid printers and hope to retire before I have to switch to something new!

Eric

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Bentley, Andrew Charles
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 10:21 AM
To: Andrews, Tom <Tom_Andrews1 at baylor.edu<mailto:Tom_Andrews1 at baylor.edu>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens

Hi Tom

I think the correct brand for these printers is Datamax which was taken over by Honeywell.  We have been using Datamax printers for over 15 years here at KU and have had no issues with the two models we have used - Prodigy Max and the I-Class Mark II.  They were both very reliable with little to no down time or need for repairs. We are still using the I-Class Mark II and it has been going strong for over 10 years now servicing multiple divisions at the museum through a network connection.

I have heard that newer generations of these printers produced by Honeywell are nowhere near as reliable and have numerous issues.  The company that supplied our Datamax printers, Alpha Systems, has since stopped recommending these printers and moved over to CAB Squib printers instead (see attached), that are supposed to be much more reliable and user friendly.  Their pricing and recommendations are also attached.

I have not heard of anyone buying a used Datamax printer, but, if treated correctly, Datamax printers can last a long time and as such, if you are able to get your hands on a second hand Datamax I-series printer (the Prodigy Max is very outdated now) and funds are scarce, I would suggest that you go for it (from a quick search it looks like they run about $1000-1300 on eBay and other sites).  It also looks like new ones are still to be had at a discount like here: https://www.barcodediscount.com/catalog/datamax-o-neil/part-i13-00-43000007.htm<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.barcodediscount.com%2Fcatalog%2Fdatamax-o-neil%2Fpart-i13-00-43000007.htm&data=05%7C01%7Crhrobins%40flmnh.ufl.edu%7Ccd107239859544d2598d08dabe9e27a0%7C0d4da0f84a314d76ace60a62331e1b84%7C0%7C0%7C638031883764695532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qXomBiPWgI5srtCXvg2y%2F2i5ufOTeWcmpa%2Fd445BYBI%3D&reserved=0>. Just a heads up that network cards and optional cutters may not be included but can probably be found as aftermarket add ons.  Also, I would suggest that you purchase a 300 dpi or higher (model I-4310 or I-4606) to get the best quality print.  Also make sure that you are buying one that predates the Honeywell takeover.  However, if you can afford the attached, I would suggest going with a new CAB printer and save the hassle of not knowing the condition of a second hand printer.  The print head is the most important part of the printer and the most expensive to replace.  If this has been damaged or over used in any way, the printer may be useless.  It is important to keep the print head free from dust or other contaminants in order to ensure good printing quality but other than that, the printer requires very little if any maintenance.  They can be a little tricky to set up initially and to get the settings just right for ideal print quality but there are lots of people in the museum community using them now so that should not be a problem.  Ribbon and media can be ordered through Alpha System regardless of whether you buy a printer from them.

Hope that helps

Andy
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0002-3093-1258&data=05%7C01%7Crhrobins%40flmnh.ufl.edu%7Ccd107239859544d2598d08dabe9e27a0%7C0d4da0f84a314d76ace60a62331e1b84%7C0%7C0%7C638031883764695532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ju4C4KYfogBjzXTb%2Bwl9kvBEv8dA06QHo0kQzncqMw0%3D&reserved=0>
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu%2F&data=05%7C01%7Crhrobins%40flmnh.ufl.edu%7Ccd107239859544d2598d08dabe9e27a0%7C0d4da0f84a314d76ace60a62331e1b84%7C0%7C0%7C638031883764695532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ReQI4koiImCFYXhoNMbQQrEaFMdZoLAIH32FC8m7ZMg%3D&reserved=0>
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Andrews, Tom
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 11:27 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens

Hello Colleagues,

We have a fairly sizable backlog of fluid preserved specimens that we need to make labels for. (Vast majority are in a 55% solution of IPA) In the past, we had used a typewriter that was proven to give good results even after decades in fluid (many labels made on this machine dating back to the 1960's still look as good as when they were made) but at some point it was discovered that modern ribbons are of a different spec and no longer stand up well in fluid. As a result, we have handwritten our labels for several years but now need to come up with something more manageable for labelling several hundred specimens.

In reading through past messages here and other literature on the topic, it appears that Thermal Transfer printers are the way to go, but it seems that the Duramax which are usually recommended are no longer produced and the Honeywell printers appear to be a not totally satisfactory replacement. A quick search shows that the Duramax printers are readily available second-hand. My idea was to try to acquire one of these since they are a known quantity and as an added bonus much less costly than the new printers.

My question is, has anyone gone this route before and to those who have used the Duramax over the years, is it feasible to maintain them without outside assistance?

Kind regards,

Tom Andrews
Collections Assistant
Tom_Andrews1 at baylor.edu<mailto:Tom_Andrews1 at baylor.edu>
254-710-1194
Mayborn Museum Complex
Baylor University


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From emily.braker at colorado.edu  Mon Nov  7 11:30:07 2022
From: emily.braker at colorado.edu (Emily M. Braker)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 16:30:07 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] REMINDER: Webinar tomorrow (Nov 8) - Arctos Entities:
 Greater than the sum of their parts
Message-ID: <CY4PR03MB32857FCC6C875F0E5F551674E03C9@CY4PR03MB3285.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Please join us tomorrow Tuesday, November 8th for a webinar on Arctos Entities.

Presenter: Teresa Mayfield-Meyer (Arctos Community Coordinator), with examples from Angelo State (Serina Brady), MVZ (Carla Cicero), and UCM (Emily Braker)
Abstract:
A new collection shared by all Arctos institutions creates globally unique persistent identifiers with the capability to link records in an over-arching "entity". In biological collections this entity can be used to describe an organism that may have samples scattered over several institutions using dwc:organismID to realize the extended specimen, or to associate catalog records that compose a discrete assemblage such as a population or multiple fossils in a matrix. This presentation will demonstrate how this collection functions within Arctos and how it can be used externally to bring together catalog records from multiple institutions. Arctos entities provide opportunities for potential collaboration with data aggregators as hubs for asserting entity relationships and flagging duplicate occurrences as well as a clearinghouse for all that is known about an organism or other entity of interest.

When: Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 3:00 pm ET/1:00 pm MT/12:00 pm PT (19:00 UTC)

Where: https://cuboulder.zoom.us/j/95306371597 (passcode: Arctos)

Can't Make It?: This webinar will be recorded and made available on the Arctos Youtube station: https://arctosdb.org/learn/webinars/

We hope to see you there!

Best,
Emily


Emily Braker
Vertebrate Collections Manager, Zoology Section
University of Colorado Museum of Natural History
265 UCB, Bruce Curtis Building
Boulder, CO 80309-0218
Phone: 303-492-8466

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From christopher.tacker at naturalsciences.org  Mon Nov  7 14:01:44 2022
From: christopher.tacker at naturalsciences.org (Tacker, Christopher)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 19:01:44 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Geology Collections Manager
Message-ID: <DM8PR09MB68405BA1ABBB7F8A9D1FF3598B3C9@DM8PR09MB6840.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Colleagues,

My apologies for cross-posting.

The North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences is hiring a Collections Manager for the Geology Collection. The link to the application is here:

https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/northcarolina/jobs/3770673/collections-manager-of-geology?keywords=collection&pagetype=jobOpportunitiesJobs



Posting closes 11/18/22 at 5pm.

The minimum requirements for education are Bachelor?s degree with two years of experience. Please note that the position is open to Master?s and Ph.D. level geologists, without the two years of experience. The application must be completed in full- resumes or CV?s alone or as attachments will not be accepted.

My advice is to fill out the forms after reading the job requirements, and address those requirements explicitly in the application. Applications for state positions are first screened by someone who may not understand geology, but they will be looking for applications that meet the requirements.

All the best,
Chris Tacker


Chris Tacker  (he, him, his)
Research Curator, Geology |  Ph.D., P.G.,
North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences |  11 West Jones Street | Raleigh, NC  27601-1029
http://www.naturalsciences.org/


#staystrongNC

Learn more: @ nc.gov/covid19

And don't forget your Ws!  Wear. Wait. Wash.

WEAR a face covering | WAIT 6 feet apart from other people. | WASH your hands often.


E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to
the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties

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From aflemming at flmnh.ufl.edu  Tue Nov  8 07:15:19 2022
From: aflemming at flmnh.ufl.edu (Flemming,Adania)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2022 12:15:19 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Support your colleagues- Tshirt fundraiser ends this week
Message-ID: <SJ0PR22MB2845071AA13412B037E19AABFE3F9@SJ0PR22MB2845.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Hello all,

Thanks to everyone who has supported BlackInNHMs thus far.

Whether you were unable to engage with your colleagues during BlackInNHMs week or you forgot to purchase a t-shirt, you have one final opportunity, this week.

Please support us by purchasing a t-shirt https://bit.ly/3D1TaUj<https://www.customink.com/fundraising/black-in-natural-history-museums-3056?utm_campaign=desktop-campaign-page-share-v3&utm_content=black-in-natural-history-museums-3056&utm_medium=social&utm_source=copy-link>

[https://mms-images.out.customink.com/mms/images/catalog/colors/116203/views/alt/_supersocial_large_extended.png?design=btr0-00cn-wjy1&superSocial=1]<https://www.customink.com/fundraising/black-in-natural-history-museums-3056?utm_campaign=desktop-campaign-page-share-v3&utm_content=black-in-natural-history-museums-3056&utm_medium=social&utm_source=copy-link>
Black in Natural History Museums<https://www.customink.com/fundraising/black-in-natural-history-museums-3056?utm_campaign=desktop-campaign-page-share-v3&utm_content=black-in-natural-history-museums-3056&utm_medium=social&utm_source=copy-link>
A percentage of every sale goes to the BlackInNHMs organization BUT when you add a donation during checkout, 100% of that will be donated directly to the cause. As a 501(c)(3) non-profit, we are a grassroots organization of dedicated professionals (curators, professors, collections managers, graduate students and communication specialists)...
www.customink.com

You can also

  1.  Complete this survey https://tinyurl.com/SupportBlackInNHMs <https://tinyurl.com/SupportBlackInNHMs> to collaborate & engage w/ Black folks in NHMs.
  2.  Visit our website https://www.blackinnhms.org/
  3.  Follow us on twitter https://twitter.com/BlackInNHMs.
  4.  Donate directly  https://gofund.me/e433f03c if you didn?t gear up (purchase a t-shirt)!

Thank you!

Regards,
Adania Flemming M.S.
Pronouns:<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mypronouns.org_what-2Dand-2Dwhy&d=DwMGaQ&c=sJ6xIWYx-zLMB3EPkvcnVg&r=zThVZankKygkmOSU-DBh_YxCMdMo43h3aMJBSnI8M6c&m=52f2X9OtFcSDGRLM0XUJ77f5-zjFCYwYArT8ZkhXKMc&s=u0gctAQkmIRkamtvvL7ble1cfostm09CntkF7uSou50&e=> She/her/hers
Department of Biology
Florida Museum of Natural History<https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/>/iDigBio<https://www.idigbio.org/>/TESI<https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/earth-systems/about-the-institute/>
University of Florida
Office Phone: 352-273-1951
Email: aflemming at flmnh.ufl.edu<mailto:aflemming at ufl.edu>
FMSA Website: https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/student-association/
[cid:24c15533-c72f-4b77-8bdb-e17ca33f789f]<https://wlo.link/@blackinnhm>
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From djennings at flmnh.ufl.edu  Tue Nov  8 15:46:30 2022
From: djennings at flmnh.ufl.edu (Jennings,David T)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2022 20:46:30 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] =?windows-1252?q?iDigBio_Community_Survey_2022_=96_Pl?=
 =?windows-1252?q?ease_Respond?=
Message-ID: <BY5PR22MB188908D54C6A4090AA842DA0E83F9@BY5PR22MB1889.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Greetings!


We are reaching out to our iDigBio users and networks to ask for your help and input. We would like to hear about your experiences with iDigBio and how you have used iDigBio resources in your work. This will help us better understand our accomplishments to date and plan for the future.


To that end, we invite you to participate in a short survey. The survey will take you 10-20 minutes to complete, depending on your level of engagement with iDigBio over the years. Whether you have been heavily involved with iDigBio or have interacted with iDigBio a few times only, we are interested in hearing from you.


The survey is being managed on our behalf by Inform Evaluation & Research<http://www.informeval.com/>, an independent consulting firm. Inform will be responsible for collecting and analyzing all data. While Inform will share a full report with iDigBio, all of your responses to the survey will be confidential. Your name or institution will not be associated with anything you share in the survey.


The deadline for completing the survey is Tuesday, Nov. 22.


Finally, as a thank you for your time, at the end of the survey you will have the option to enter a drawing to win a $200 Amazon gift card.


Thank you in advance for your participation in this important effort as we chart iDigBio?s course into the future.


Click here to begin the survey.<https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6HG6WKN>


Best wishes,


Gil Nelson and David Jennings
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From mdim at gnhm.gr  Fri Nov 11 03:43:06 2022
From: mdim at gnhm.gr (Maria Dimaki)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:43:06 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freeze-dryer
In-Reply-To: <dcfce8f4-cbc3-2f1d-957b-981a71aea19f@gmail.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <dcfce8f4-cbc3-2f1d-957b-981a71aea19f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P190MB076824043EEB0C533980B4E6C0009@VI1P190MB0768.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi, I was wondering if you have experience with freeze-drying. I am interested in use it with, insects, small reptiles and birds. Is it efficient as a method to preserve small specimens? Has anyone any suggestions on a good model?
Thank you very much
Maria


[cid:image001.jpg at 01D7F0F9.B30485E0]


Dr Maria Dimaki

Collections Manager

Head of the Department of Terrestrial Zoology

Goulandris Natural History Museum

Othonos St 100, GR 145 62 Kifissia

Tel 0030 210 8015870 ext. 526


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From HawksC at si.edu  Fri Nov 11 14:10:19 2022
From: HawksC at si.edu (Hawks, Catharine)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 19:10:19 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fwd: OPL Contract for 2023 Year
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR12MB3855459E5D8DA27F1A676469BF009@MN2PR12MB3855.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CH2PR12MB394222687732A4A106C1B665A2019@CH2PR12MB3942.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <MN2PR12MB3855459E5D8DA27F1A676469BF009@MN2PR12MB3855.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB5111811001B6C9FA870559AABF009@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>



Sent from my iPhone
Catharine Hawks
________________________________
From: Schuhmann, Leslie <SchuhmannL at si.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 10:36:28 AM
To: Schuhmann, Leslie <SchuhmannL at si.edu>
Subject: Fw: OPL Contract for 2023 Year



 Dear Colleagues,



The Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History is seeking an independent contractor to provide osteo-preparation services at NMNH?s Osteo Prep Lab in Suitland, MD. Attached is a pdf containing the Request for Quote (RFQ), Statement of Work (SOW) and relevant attachments.



Quotes are due by 5pm Eastern Time on December 2, 2022. All applicants should register as a federal contractor in the System for Award Management (SAM) concurrently to responding to the RFQ.



Please forward this announcement to any qualified candidates who might be interested. If you have any questions regarding this contract, please do not hesitate to contact me.





Thanks



Ella Haigler

Osteo Prep Lab Manager/Collections Support Services (CSS)
W: 301-238-1008   C: 570-228-6784

SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION

NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY

Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/nmnh.fanpage/>  |  Twitter<https://twitter.com/NMNH>  |  Instagram<https://www.instagram.com/smithsoniannmnh/>



The National Museum of Natural History (NMNH) complies with all U.S. export and sanctions laws, as well as fish, wildlife and other regulations applicable to the importation and exportation of specimens and research materials. Please consider the country of origin and nature of any specimen, sample, object or material shipped to NMNH, and if applicable, ensure that it is properly licensed and otherwise compliant with U.S. law prior to shipment.


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From VTomlinson at nature.ca  Sat Nov 12 19:39:01 2022
From: VTomlinson at nature.ca (Valerie Tomlinson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 00:39:01 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] [EXT]Re:  freeze-dryer
In-Reply-To: <VI1P190MB076824043EEB0C533980B4E6C0009@VI1P190MB0768.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <dcfce8f4-cbc3-2f1d-957b-981a71aea19f@gmail.com>
 <VI1P190MB076824043EEB0C533980B4E6C0009@VI1P190MB0768.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <YQXPR01MB3766EBC2CDB7B5B8B67AD25DD6029@YQXPR01MB3766.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi Maria,
The museum I just moved from would freeze dry various specimens (mostly insects) for its collections. You should contact Darryl Jeffries or John Early at Auckland Museum for the details. I can only remember John?s email (jearly at aucklandmuseum.com<mailto:jearly at aucklandmuseum.com> ?I think Darryl was dsjeffries at aucklandmuseum.com but am not sure).
I have extensive experience with freeze drying archaeological waterlogged wood, but not organisms.
Valerie Tomlinson

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Maria Dimaki
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 3:43 AM
To: nhcoll <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [EXT]Re: [Nhcoll-l] freeze-dryer

COURRIEL EXTERNE. Ne cliquez sur aucun lien ou pi?ce jointe ? moins que vous ne connaissiez l'exp?diteur.
EXTERNAL EMAIL. Do not click any links or attachments unless you know the sender.
Hi, I was wondering if you have experience with freeze-drying. I am interested in use it with, insects, small reptiles and birds. Is it efficient as a method to preserve small specimens? Has anyone any suggestions on a good model?
Thank you very much
Maria


[cid:image001.jpg at 01D8F6CE.7E52A170]


Dr Maria Dimaki

Collections Manager

Head of the Department of Terrestrial Zoology

Goulandris Natural History Museum

Othonos St 100, GR 145 62 Kifissia

Tel 0030 210 8015870 ext. 526



[https://www.nature.ca/sites/all/themes/realdecoy/images/splash/splash-logo.jpg] <https://nature.ca/>

Saving the World with Evidence, Knowledge and Inspiration. (click to learn more)<https://nature.ca/en/about-us/museum-corporation/mission-mandate>
Sauver le monde avec des preuves, des connaissances et de l'inspiration. (cliquez pour en savoir plus)<https://nature.ca/fr/sujet-musee/mission-organisation/mission-organisation>

cmnEmailFooterDefault.
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From Andrew.Doll at dmns.org  Sun Nov 13 16:45:08 2022
From: Andrew.Doll at dmns.org (Andrew Doll)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 21:45:08 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] DMNS hiring Assistant Collections Manager
Message-ID: <DM6PR08MB48922D30524C216874CC743594029@DM6PR08MB4892.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

The Denver Museum of Nature & Science seeks an Assistant Collections Manager in the Integrative Collections Branch to support the Zoology Collections. This position supports the collections and research activities of the Zoology Department as it curates a taxonomically diverse, scientifically valuable, and well cared for collection of specimens. The Zoology Collections currently hold approximately 1.25M specimens and specimen lots in the areas of Arachnology, Entomology, Mammalogy, Marine Invertebrates, Parasitology, and Ornithology.


The Zoology Department seeks to document and preserve the biodiversity of the Rocky Mountain region and beyond for scientific research and education while adhering to current best-practice guidelines. This position facilitates efforts to preserve and protect the collections on a long-term basis, to increase access and grow scientific output, to manage and expand collections, and to help inspire diverse communities? understanding of, and involvement in, biodiversity and the natural world. DMNS is especially interested in candidates whose background and experience have prepared them to contribute to our commitments to co-create a museum-wide DEAI (Diversity, Equity, Accessibility, Inclusion) strategy, and to find ways for diverse communities to engage with the Museum in meaningful ways.


This position reports to the Zoology Collections Manager.


Essential duties:

Assists with professional collections management for all collections.

Assists with the accession, deaccession, documentation, registration, organization, and preparation of collections as assigned.

Implements training, monitoring, and daily supervision of interns and volunteers as assigned.

Responds to internal and external queries and requests, and facilitates loans and use of collections.

Assists in maintaining collections metadata, including digital records and associated multimedia files.

Implements and ensures adherence to all safety protocols in collections.

Supports and delivers internal and external outreach programs as appropriate or required.


Minimum qualifications/Requirements:

Bachelor?s degree in Zoology or related field required.

1 year museum collections management experience required.

1 year relational database experience required.

Occasional local and out of state travel required.

Evening and weekend shifts as needed required.

Ability to handle biological material and museum specimens in adherence with safety and departmental protocols required.

The Museum loves science.  As a science institution, the Museum believes in the science behind vaccines. As a condition of employment, employees must present proof that they are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 on their first day of employment or receive an exemption or other reasonable accommodation due to circumstances protected under federal or state law that prevent the employee from being vaccinated. If you wish to apply for an exemption, please contact Human Resources for the necessary forms. You will be notified of the decision regarding your requested exemption.


Ideal candidate will have:
Master?s degree in Zoology or related field

Experience working with zoological museum specimens; particularly vertebrate animals

Understanding and experience with taxonomic concepts and phylogenetic organization

Experience moving and reorganizing collections

Supervisory experience with interns and volunteers

Advanced collections management database experience, including data imports and large dataset proofing and cleanup

Experience managing multiple projects at once, including the ability to create and implement both short-term and long-term plans

Experience engaging diverse audiences in science or through science communication

Proven record of being a highly motivated, proactive team player

Exceptional organizational skills


Please see the formal announcement for more details: https://phf.tbe.taleo.net/phf01/ats/careers/v2/viewRequisition?org=DMNS&cws=38&rid=1841



Andrew Doll
Collections Manager - Zoology



[http://www.dmns.org/images/icons/DMNS-Email-Signature-Logo.png]<https://www.dmns.org/>

<mailto:Kerry.Mason at dmns.org>

andrew.doll at dmns.org<mailto:andrew.doll at dmns.org>
Work  303.370.8387
Cell    303.709.8307

Fax    303.331.6492

2001 Colorado Blvd.
Denver, CO  80205

[http://www.dmns.org/images/icons/Facebook-Email-Signature-Logo.png]<https://www.facebook.com/DMNSorg>[http://www.dmns.org/images/icons/Twitter-Email-Signature-Logo.png]<https://twitter.com/DenverMuseumNS/>


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From Karen.Morton at perotmuseum.org  Sun Nov 13 20:51:20 2022
From: Karen.Morton at perotmuseum.org (Karen Morton)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 01:51:20 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Number of subscribers
Message-ID: <SN6PR12MB2717E1613229CABB8F3D85BD9C059@SN6PR12MB2717.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Nhcoll-Administrator(s),

Can anyone at Nhcoll-L tell me approximately how many subscribers there are to the list?  I don't need to know who, just a number.  It is for a grant and our grant writer insists we quantify how many people we can access (provide information to) through various museum lists.

Thank you for your assistance.
Sincerely,
KAREN MORTON
Collections Manager
Perot Museum of Nature and Science
P 214.756.5833 | karen.morton at perotmuseum.org<mailto:karen.morton at perotmuseum.org>

2201 N. Field Street, Dallas, TX 75201
P 214.428.5555 | F 214.428.5892| perotmuseum.org<http://www.perotmuseum.org/>

[Perot Museum Facebook]<https://www.facebook.com/PerotMuseum>[Perot Museum Twitter]<http://twitter.com/perotmuseum>[Join the Perot Museum]<http://www.perotmuseum.org/join-the-perot/index.html>



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From aresetar at fieldmuseum.org  Tue Nov 15 08:42:55 2022
From: aresetar at fieldmuseum.org (Alan Resetar)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:42:55 -0600
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freeze-dryer
In-Reply-To: <VI1P190MB076824043EEB0C533980B4E6C0009@VI1P190MB0768.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <dcfce8f4-cbc3-2f1d-957b-981a71aea19f@gmail.com>
 <VI1P190MB076824043EEB0C533980B4E6C0009@VI1P190MB0768.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAJfVd1KCfr8GmxoShcqCPO9AWvK5e5r-Z0F7AYFj+CfnLFpPiQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have always associated freeze drying museum specimens for exhibit with La
Sierra University (formerly Loma Linda) and Dr. Billy Hankins. See
http://criterionnow.com/recent-stories-1/2018/12/6/la-sierras-world-natural-history-museum

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:43 AM Maria Dimaki <mdim at gnhm.gr> wrote:

> Hi, I was wondering if you have experience with freeze-drying. I am
> interested in use it with, insects, small reptiles and birds. Is it
> efficient as a method to preserve small specimens? Has anyone any
> suggestions on a good model?
>
> Thank you very much
>
> Maria
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr Maria Dimaki
>
> Collections Manager
>
> Head of the Department of Terrestrial Zoology
>
> Goulandris Natural History Museum
>
> Othonos St 100, GR 145 62 Kifissia
>
> Tel 0030 210 8015870 ext. 526
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From bernzen at ku.edu  Mon Nov 14 17:50:33 2022
From: bernzen at ku.edu (Ernzen, Brandy Michelle)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 22:50:33 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] University of Kansas Museum Studies Applications Due
 February 1st
Message-ID: <SA1PR01MB6749A07E0CD55654E1A0A545D4059@SA1PR01MB6749.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Please excuse cross-postings.
University of Kansas Museum Studies Applications Due February 1st
The?University of Kansas??Museum Studies Program?(https://museumstudies.ku.edu) offers?a flexible?master?s degree and?graduate?certificate,?with a focus on interdisciplinarity and student advising.?Our?program builds students??technical foundational knowledge in the field while providing hands-on?professional?skills in museum collections, which deepens?their?knowledge in their chosen academic discipline.?Each?student focuses their coursework on?the?subjects?and skillsets?that interest them professionally, including the natural sciences. Students?work with renowned KU faculty?and museum professionals throughout the program, including those in KU?s Biodiversity Institute/Natural History Museum collections.

Applications are due February 1 for fall admission. Get to know the program during our Q&A session on Wednesday, December 7, at 6:30 p.m. ET/3:30 p.m. PT. The Zoom link is https://kansas.zoom.us/j/4579691776. Or, contact Program Coordinator Brandy Ernzen at?bernzen at ku.edu<mailto:bernzen at ku.edu>?or 785-864-6408.?We welcome in-person?campus?visits and Zoom meetings!


Brandy Ernzen
she/her/hers
Program Coordinator
Indigenous Studies<http://indigenous.ku.edu/> & Museum Studies<http://museumstudies.ku.edu/>
bernzen at ku.edu<mailto:bernzen at ku.edu>
785-864-6408

University of Kansas | 1460 Jayhawk Blvd. | 317 Snow Hall | Lawrence, KS 66045

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From djennings at flmnh.ufl.edu  Tue Nov 15 13:40:08 2022
From: djennings at flmnh.ufl.edu (Jennings,David T)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2022 18:40:08 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] =?windows-1252?q?Reminder=3A_iDigBio_Community_Survey?=
 =?windows-1252?q?_2022_=96_Please_Respond?=
Message-ID: <BY5PR22MB18895D5FACD38E5F45202FD1E8049@BY5PR22MB1889.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Greetings!


This is a reminder that you are invited to participate in a short survey to help iDigBio learn about your experiences with iDigBio and how you have used iDigBio resources in your work. The survey will take you 10-20 minutes to complete, depending on your level of engagement with iDigBio over the years. We want to hear from you!


The survey is being managed on our behalf by Inform Evaluation & Research<http://www.informeval.com/>, an independent consulting firm. While Inform will share a full report with iDigBio, all of your responses to the survey will be confidential.


The deadline for completing the survey is Tuesday, Nov. 22.


Finally, as a thank you for your time, at the end of the survey you will have the option to enter a drawing to win a $200 Amazon gift card.


Thank you in advance for your participation in this important effort as we chart iDigBio?s course into the future. Apologies for the listserv cross-postings.


Click here to begin the survey.<https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6HG6WKN>


Best wishes,


Gil Nelson and David Jennings
<https://orcid.org/0000-0003-0520-6983>
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From mdim at gnhm.gr  Wed Nov 16 01:12:05 2022
From: mdim at gnhm.gr (Maria Dimaki)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 06:12:05 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] freeze-dryer
In-Reply-To: <CAJfVd1KCfr8GmxoShcqCPO9AWvK5e5r-Z0F7AYFj+CfnLFpPiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d5b365202c334f509ce0c69f61a4dc59@loodusmuuseum.ee>
 <dcfce8f4-cbc3-2f1d-957b-981a71aea19f@gmail.com>
 <VI1P190MB076824043EEB0C533980B4E6C0009@VI1P190MB0768.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <CAJfVd1KCfr8GmxoShcqCPO9AWvK5e5r-Z0F7AYFj+CfnLFpPiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P190MB07686CFA683782F2A477CE2BC0079@VI1P190MB0768.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thank you all for your time!
Maria

[cid:image001.jpg at 01D7F0F9.B30485E0]

??. ????? ??????
?????????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ????????
???????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?????????
??????? ????????? ??????? ????????
??????? 100, 145 62 ???????
???. 210 8015870 ????. 526


Dr Maria Dimaki

Collections Manager

Head of the Department of Terrestrial Zoology

Goulandris Natural History Museum

Othonos St 100, GR 145 62 Kifissia

Tel 0030 210 8015870 ext. 526


From: Alan Resetar<mailto:aresetar at fieldmuseum.org>
Sent: ?????, 15 ????????? 2022 3:43 ??
To: Maria Dimaki<mailto:mdim at gnhm.gr>
Cc: nhcoll<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] freeze-dryer

I have always associated freeze drying museum specimens for exhibit with La Sierra University (formerly Loma Linda) and Dr. Billy Hankins. See http://criterionnow.com/recent-stories-1/2018/12/6/la-sierras-world-natural-history-museum

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 2:43 AM Maria Dimaki <mdim at gnhm.gr<mailto:mdim at gnhm.gr>> wrote:
Hi, I was wondering if you have experience with freeze-drying. I am interested in use it with, insects, small reptiles and birds. Is it efficient as a method to preserve small specimens? Has anyone any suggestions on a good model?
Thank you very much
Maria


[cid:image001.jpg at 01D7F0F9.B30485E0]


Dr Maria Dimaki

Collections Manager

Head of the Department of Terrestrial Zoology

Goulandris Natural History Museum

Othonos St 100, GR 145 62 Kifissia

Tel 0030 210 8015870 ext. 526


_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

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From Tonya.Haff at csiro.au  Wed Nov 16 18:31:59 2022
From: Tonya.Haff at csiro.au (Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace))
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 23:31:59 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula
Message-ID: <ME2PR01MB55084AB07E25B9EDC0501F3EEE079@ME2PR01MB5508.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hello all,

We have quite a few specimens (mostly macropod pouch young, turtle embryos and turtle organs) that have been preserved in Bouin's formula, which contains picric acid. I know that picric acid is explosive on impact, and so we are wary of the potential risk that the jars of those specimens may pose. However, I don't have any real understanding of what the actual risk of explosion might be... should these specimens and their jars be disposed of because opening them poses too much of a risk, or are the levels of picric acid so insignificant as to not pose a risk? Or is there some halfway point, but a way of safely opening the jars without calling the bomb squad? If any of you have thoughts or experience with this I would really appreciate it!

Cheers,

Tonya

-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Tonya M. Haff
Collection Manager
Australian National Wildlife Collection
CSIRO
+61(0)419569109
https://www.csiro.au/en/about/facilities-collections/collections/anwc

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From Anja.Divljan at Australian.Museum  Wed Nov 16 19:20:05 2022
From: Anja.Divljan at Australian.Museum (Anja Divljan)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 00:20:05 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Diluting ethanol
Message-ID: <SYBPR01MB5209AD3706A1A8853409FCCE90069@SYBPR01MB5209.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all,
I just wanted to double check if anyone has used magnetic stirrers for large volume (~25-100L) to dilute ethanol for use in collections?
If so, what brand have you used, and what are the pros and cons of these units?
Thanks,
Anja

Dr Anja Divljan
Collections Storage and Logistics Manager | Australian Museum Research Institute
Executive Officer, Australian Museum Animal Care and Ethics Committee
Australian Museum  1 William Street Sydney NSW 2010 Australia
T 61 2 9320 6063 M 61 421 274 781


[cid:image001.jpg at 01D8F9DC.E308B670]<http://australianmuseum.net.au/>
Facebook<http://scanmail.trustwave.com/?c=4062&d=9tah1ola45caCxmi3ja9yXMwt19uHfEmeZUSDDzbPA&s=978&u=https%3a%2f%2fwww%2efacebook%2ecom%2faustralianmuseum> | Twitter<http://scanmail.trustwave.com/?c=4062&d=9tah1ola45caCxmi3ja9yXMwt19uHfEmecoRWm_eOg&s=978&u=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter%2ecom%2faustmus> | Instagram<http://scanmail.trustwave.com/?c=4062&d=9tah1ola45caCxmi3ja9yXMwt19uHfEmeZFFDz3baQ&s=978&u=https%3a%2f%2finstagram%2ecom%2faustralianmuseum%2f%3fhl%3den> | YouTube<http://scanmail.trustwave.com/?c=4062&d=9tah1ola45caCxmi3ja9yXMwt19uHfEmeccRWjiPbQ&s=978&u=https%3a%2f%2fwww%2eyoutube%2ecom%2fuser%2faustmus>

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From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 16 19:58:04 2022
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 00:58:04 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula
In-Reply-To: <ME2PR01MB55084AB07E25B9EDC0501F3EEE079@ME2PR01MB5508.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB55084AB07E25B9EDC0501F3EEE079@ME2PR01MB5508.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DBEF9884-9096-49A3-8421-5D95D53CCCB0@btinternet.com>

Hi Tonya,

I used to deal with Bouin?s fluid back in my histology days.  The only slight risk is if the picric acid content has dried to yellow crystals and you have screw top jars.  The picric acid is a tri-nitrate so yes, it?s unstable and might spark a bit in this situation.  If this is so, then immerse the jars in cold water so that the picric acid goes back into solution and is then quite safe.  I have had dry picric acid situations like this before and this method has always worked well and no fireworks!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 16 Nov 2022, at 23:31, Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
>  
> We have quite a few specimens (mostly macropod pouch young, turtle embryos and turtle organs) that have been preserved in Bouin?s formula, which contains picric acid. I know that picric acid is explosive on impact, and so we are wary of the potential risk that the jars of those specimens may pose. However, I don?t have any real understanding of what the actual risk of explosion might be? should these specimens and their jars be disposed of because opening them poses too much of a risk, or are the levels of picric acid so insignificant as to not pose a risk? Or is there some halfway point, but a way of safely opening the jars without calling the bomb squad? If any of you have thoughts or experience with this I would really appreciate it!
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Tonya
>  
> -------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Tonya M. Haff
> Collection Manager
> Australian National Wildlife Collection
> CSIRO
> +61(0)419569109
> https://www.csiro.au/en/about/facilities-collections/collections/anwc
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


From Bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de  Thu Nov 17 02:05:32 2022
From: Bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de (Bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 08:05:32 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula
References: <ME2PR01MB55084AB07E25B9EDC0501F3EEE079@ME2PR01MB5508.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <DBEF9884-9096-49A3-8421-5D95D53CCCB0@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <-i82i7jgruq0f-cp4xplmblgxinzgece-ilkt7p3tstea9p44teakxm4f-6yswohccr5hwxs21m3hy6s1v-lnwa5yropxgygrzqr6tjhge5rug3hi-5ui41z-9swlvz-9ncqqz-l7o28g-eqkbp4hutnk6.1668668576709@email.android.com>

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From prc44 at drexel.edu  Thu Nov 17 02:22:03 2022
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 07:22:03 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula
In-Reply-To: <-i82i7jgruq0f-cp4xplmblgxinzgece-ilkt7p3tstea9p44teakxm4f-6yswohccr5hwxs21m3hy6s1v-lnwa5yropxgygrzqr6tjhge5rug3hi-5ui41z-9swlvz-9ncqqz-l7o28g-eqkbp4hutnk6.1668668576709@email.android.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB55084AB07E25B9EDC0501F3EEE079@ME2PR01MB5508.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <DBEF9884-9096-49A3-8421-5D95D53CCCB0@btinternet.com>
 <-i82i7jgruq0f-cp4xplmblgxinzgece-ilkt7p3tstea9p44teakxm4f-6yswohccr5hwxs21m3hy6s1v-lnwa5yropxgygrzqr6tjhge5rug3hi-5ui41z-9swlvz-9ncqqz-l7o28g-eqkbp4hutnk6.1668668576709@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB52208CF7EB7E0568FDD71FDBC3069@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Bouin's is a prep fluid that enhances nerves and other such things in dissections. I don't think it's supposed to be a long-term preservative.
Many years ago we had a full bomb-squad callout for some partially desiccated Bouin's. They closed down I-95 to transport the bottle to a safe location and blew it up. I asked an expert lab chemist of my long acquaintance about that and he said "Silly buggers - they could have just put it in a sink full of water and waited a week."
Paul Callomon
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de <Bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 4:05:32 PM
To: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>; Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula


External.

Dear Simon and Tonya,

we also have some old specimen in Bouins. I did not touch them yet, but hope to in the near future. Do you know if there is a way to transfere them into other solutions to get rid of the bouin? What I can tell that few years ago a student brought a salamander which was fixated in bouin and he later stored in Alkohol, this specimen turned completely brittle and started to flake into pieces.

With best regards
Bernd


-------- Urspr?ngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>
Datum: Do., 17. Nov. 2022, 01:58
An: "Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)" <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Betreff: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula
Hi Tonya,

I used to deal with Bouin?s fluid back in my histology days.  The only slight risk is if the picric acid content has dried to yellow crystals and you have screw top jars.  The picric acid is a tri-nitrate so yes, it?s unstable and might spark a bit in this situation.  If this is so, then immerse the jars in cold water so that the picric acid goes back into solution and is then quite safe.  I have had dry picric acid situations like this before and this method has always worked well and no fireworks!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com




> On 16 Nov 2022, at 23:31, Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> We have quite a few specimens (mostly macropod pouch young, turtle embryos and turtle organs) that have been preserved in Bouin?s formula, which contains picric acid. I know that picric acid is explosive on impact, and so we are wary of the potential risk that the jars of those specimens may pose. However, I don?t have any real understanding of what the actual risk of explosion might be? should these specimens and their jars be disposed of because opening them poses too much of a risk, or are the levels of picric acid so insignificant as to not pose a risk? Or is there some halfway point, but a way of safely opening the jars without calling the bomb squad? If any of you have thoughts or experience with this I would really appreciate it!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tonya
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Tonya M. Haff
> Collection Manager
> Australian National Wildlife Collection
> CSIRO
> +61(0)419569109
> https://www.csiro.au/en/about/facilities-collections/collections/anwc
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Thu Nov 17 02:33:10 2022
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 08:33:10 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula
In-Reply-To: <DBEF9884-9096-49A3-8421-5D95D53CCCB0@btinternet.com>
References: <ME2PR01MB55084AB07E25B9EDC0501F3EEE079@ME2PR01MB5508.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <DBEF9884-9096-49A3-8421-5D95D53CCCB0@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <354086d5-1fa6-6e4e-b885-2ab9549e53a6@leibniz-lib.de>

Hi Tonya,

Simon's and Paul's  recommendation are straight forward, and we have to assume that specimens in Bouin's are present in many collections. They are usually very easy to spot because of the intense and bright light yellow colour of the fluid, which also stains the alcohol after the transfer of the specimens.

Often these specimens entered collections as research specimens after taking histological samples from those vouchers, therefore, they often are not stored in qualitatively high and especially tight closing jars we normally would use for storage of specimens. Thus transferring them to better jars is an option to stabilise them, but if you know that you have Bouin-preserved specimens in your collection, it is useful to know where these jars are and to have a closer monitoring for those jars in the collection. Often, the volume of the jars is less then 50 ml and thus these jars have a higher risk to dry up unnoticed.

Bouin's is a water-based acidic fixative, often leading to considerable shrinkage of tissues and of course loss of calcium carbonate from bones. If they are no longer needed or wanted for histology and should be transferred into alcohol, you would like to avoid rinsing them in water and exposing them for too long in low concentrated alcohol. In Fact - at least for larger and specimens with a more stable tissue matrix - it might be better not to step but to transfer them into 50% EtOH or even higher. A key factor here is the question how stable the tissues and tissue membranes are to withstand this sudden osmotic shock (as this more or less direct transfer extracts water from the cells, of course), or, vice versa, how damaged tissues and membranes are after prolonged exposure in an highly acidic storage fluid.

Usually, after the transfer into alcohol, more picric acid escapes from the specimens, which you can easily notice because of the vivid yellow staining of the alcohol. As we have to assume that this has an effect on the pH equilibrium (without wanting to dive into the details of "measuring pH in alcohols" here), it is worth considering to exchange the alcohol after some time has lapsed again. Time intervals depend on common factors as 'number of specimens', 'volume of the container', 'osmotic pressure', etc. My rule of thumb was if I could notice a considerable yellow stain after transfer, I would exchange the alcohol again.

Again and as often, not a clear cut answer, but hopefully somewhat useful.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 17.11.2022 um 01:58 schrieb Simon Moore:

Hi Tonya,

I used to deal with Bouin?s fluid back in my histology days.  The only slight risk is if the picric acid content has dried to yellow crystals and you have screw top jars.  The picric acid is a tri-nitrate so yes, it?s unstable and might spark a bit in this situation.  If this is so, then immerse the jars in cold water so that the picric acid goes back into solution and is then quite safe.  I have had dry picric acid situations like this before and this method has always worked well and no fireworks!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>






On 16 Nov 2022, at 23:31, Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au><mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:

Hello all,

We have quite a few specimens (mostly macropod pouch young, turtle embryos and turtle organs) that have been preserved in Bouin?s formula, which contains picric acid. I know that picric acid is explosive on impact, and so we are wary of the potential risk that the jars of those specimens may pose. However, I don?t have any real understanding of what the actual risk of explosion might be? should these specimens and their jars be disposed of because opening them poses too much of a risk, or are the levels of picric acid so insignificant as to not pose a risk? Or is there some halfway point, but a way of safely opening the jars without calling the bomb squad? If any of you have thoughts or experience with this I would really appreciate it!

Cheers,

Tonya

-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Tonya M. Haff
Collection Manager
Australian National Wildlife Collection
CSIRO
+61(0)419569109
https://www.csiro.au/en/about/facilities-collections/collections/anwc

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
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https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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From Bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de  Thu Nov 17 03:20:02 2022
From: Bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de (Bernhard-leopold.bock at uni-jena.de)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 09:20:02 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula
References: <354086d5-1fa6-6e4e-b885-2ab9549e53a6@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <k6qn2w-91xunatesn8v-ubfd66-uj37bx-cyxgkeuesmkd-wwnq63x5ard37magb5gyc8mcopzmet25w2glko3devgczk-hytv16vogfy7-xw8o4w-kwl6ywabt8u9ll2lzv-ne1itv-5qx9do-df4mlz.1668673202612@email.android.com>

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From Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk  Thu Nov 17 06:01:28 2022
From: Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk (Julian Carter)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 11:01:28 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula
In-Reply-To: <354086d5-1fa6-6e4e-b885-2ab9549e53a6@leibniz-lib.de>
References: <ME2PR01MB55084AB07E25B9EDC0501F3EEE079@ME2PR01MB5508.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <DBEF9884-9096-49A3-8421-5D95D53CCCB0@btinternet.com>
 <354086d5-1fa6-6e4e-b885-2ab9549e53a6@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <LO2P123MB6263AF2894888AF04D2E50D8B4069@LO2P123MB6263.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi Tonya,
I?ve moved alot of material, both invertebrate and vertebrate, out of Bouin?s over the years through an alcohol series with no issues. You may not remove all traces of the original fluid in that a yellow tint will appear in the new solution over time, but any residual ?Bouin?s? is going to be highly diluted by this stage. Dried picric acid in jar threads etc is a potential hazard but as already mention a soak in water will sort this. Similarly this may be an issue with dried out material and this presents a good case for attempting rehydration of such material if it is to be retained.
All the best
Jules
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Dirk Neumann
Sent: 17 November 2022 07:33
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula

Hi Tonya,

Simon's and Paul's  recommendation are straight forward, and we have to assume that specimens in Bouin's are present in many collections. They are usually very easy to spot because of the intense and bright light yellow colour of the fluid, which also stains the alcohol after the transfer of the specimens.

Often these specimens entered collections as research specimens after taking histological samples from those vouchers, therefore, they often are not stored in qualitatively high and especially tight closing jars we normally would use for storage of specimens. Thus transferring them to better jars is an option to stabilise them, but if you know that you have Bouin-preserved specimens in your collection, it is useful to know where these jars are and to have a closer monitoring for those jars in the collection. Often, the volume of the jars is less then 50 ml and thus these jars have a higher risk to dry up unnoticed.

Bouin's is a water-based acidic fixative, often leading to considerable shrinkage of tissues and of course loss of calcium carbonate from bones. If they are no longer needed or wanted for histology and should be transferred into alcohol, you would like to avoid rinsing them in water and exposing them for too long in low concentrated alcohol. In Fact - at least for larger and specimens with a more stable tissue matrix - it might be better not to step but to transfer them into 50% EtOH or even higher. A key factor here is the question how stable the tissues and tissue membranes are to withstand this sudden osmotic shock (as this more or less direct transfer extracts water from the cells, of course), or, vice versa, how damaged tissues and membranes are after prolonged exposure in an highly acidic storage fluid.

Usually, after the transfer into alcohol, more picric acid escapes from the specimens, which you can easily notice because of the vivid yellow staining of the alcohol. As we have to assume that this has an effect on the pH equilibrium (without wanting to dive into the details of "measuring pH in alcohols" here), it is worth considering to exchange the alcohol after some time has lapsed again. Time intervals depend on common factors as 'number of specimens', 'volume of the container', 'osmotic pressure', etc. My rule of thumb was if I could notice a considerable yellow stain after transfer, I would exchange the alcohol again.

Again and as often, not a clear cut answer, but hopefully somewhat useful.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 17.11.2022 um 01:58 schrieb Simon Moore:

Hi Tonya,



I used to deal with Bouin?s fluid back in my histology days.  The only slight risk is if the picric acid content has dried to yellow crystals and you have screw top jars.  The picric acid is a tri-nitrate so yes, it?s unstable and might spark a bit in this situation.  If this is so, then immerse the jars in cold water so that the picric acid goes back into solution and is then quite safe.  I have had dry picric acid situations like this before and this method has always worked well and no fireworks!



With all good wishes, Simon



Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR

Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,



www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>









On 16 Nov 2022, at 23:31, Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au><mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:



Hello all,



We have quite a few specimens (mostly macropod pouch young, turtle embryos and turtle organs) that have been preserved in Bouin?s formula, which contains picric acid. I know that picric acid is explosive on impact, and so we are wary of the potential risk that the jars of those specimens may pose. However, I don?t have any real understanding of what the actual risk of explosion might be? should these specimens and their jars be disposed of because opening them poses too much of a risk, or are the levels of picric acid so insignificant as to not pose a risk? Or is there some halfway point, but a way of safely opening the jars without calling the bomb squad? If any of you have thoughts or experience with this I would really appreciate it!



Cheers,



Tonya



-------------------------------------------------

Dr. Tonya M. Haff

Collection Manager

Australian National Wildlife Collection

CSIRO

+61(0)419569109

https://www.csiro.au/en/about/facilities-collections/collections/anwc



_______________________________________________

Nhcoll-l mailing list

Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>

https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l



_______________________________________________

NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of

Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose

mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of

natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to

society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.

Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



_______________________________________________

Nhcoll-l mailing list

Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>

https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l



_______________________________________________

NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of

Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose

mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of

natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to

society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.

Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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From sergio.montagud at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 07:42:18 2022
From: sergio.montagud at gmail.com (Sergio Montagud)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 12:42:18 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Collection of feathers
Message-ID: <AM9P193MB0967830080158536E82F60ABAF069@AM9P193MB0967.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi all

We want to afford a new collection of feathers, because a lot of people bring us them and some are particularly interesting for new areas and/or rare species.

Can someone recommended the best practice for this type of collection? Or perhaps some reference or article about this subject?

Thanks in advance!

Sergio
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From abentley at ku.edu  Thu Nov 17 09:42:54 2022
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:42:54 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Diluting ethanol
In-Reply-To: <SYBPR01MB5209AD3706A1A8853409FCCE90069@SYBPR01MB5209.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SYBPR01MB5209AD3706A1A8853409FCCE90069@SYBPR01MB5209.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR01MB3264A882EC05AE1AFE7524C5B2069@MWHPR01MB3264.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Anja

All the magnetic stirrers I have seen are relatively small and would have little to no effect in that volume of fluid.  We have had great success with air bubblers (simply placing a tube with a weight on the end connected to an air source) in mixing alcohol solutions.

Andy
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
USA<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>

Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Anja Divljan
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 6:20 PM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Diluting ethanol

Hi all,
I just wanted to double check if anyone has used magnetic stirrers for large volume (~25-100L) to dilute ethanol for use in collections?
If so, what brand have you used, and what are the pros and cons of these units?
Thanks,
Anja

Dr Anja Divljan
Collections Storage and Logistics Manager | Australian Museum Research Institute
Executive Officer, Australian Museum Animal Care and Ethics Committee
Australian Museum  1 William Street Sydney NSW 2010 Australia
T 61 2 9320 6063 M 61 421 274 781


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From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Thu Nov 17 10:34:29 2022
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:34:29 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Diluting ethanol
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR01MB3264A882EC05AE1AFE7524C5B2069@MWHPR01MB3264.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <SYBPR01MB5209AD3706A1A8853409FCCE90069@SYBPR01MB5209.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <MWHPR01MB3264A882EC05AE1AFE7524C5B2069@MWHPR01MB3264.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <b3c59e63-9b16-2b1f-3dcf-86405e00876c@leibniz-lib.de>

... I simply used a big plastic rod for stirring our 60 litre drum, very simple and effective ...


Am 17.11.2022 um 15:42 schrieb Bentley, Andrew Charles:
Anja

All the magnetic stirrers I have seen are relatively small and would have little to no effect in that volume of fluid.  We have had great success with air bubblers (simply placing a tube with a weight on the end connected to an air source) in mixing alcohol solutions.

Andy
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
USA<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>

Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
    A  :             A  :             A  :
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From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Anja Divljan
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 6:20 PM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Diluting ethanol

Hi all,
I just wanted to double check if anyone has used magnetic stirrers for large volume (~25-100L) to dilute ethanol for use in collections?
If so, what brand have you used, and what are the pros and cons of these units?
Thanks,
Anja

Dr Anja Divljan
Collections Storage and Logistics Manager | Australian Museum Research Institute
Executive Officer, Australian Museum Animal Care and Ethics Committee
Australian Museum  1 William Street Sydney NSW 2010 Australia
T 61 2 9320 6063 M 61 421 274 781


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Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
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From simmons.johne at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 10:46:28 2022
From: simmons.johne at gmail.com (John E Simmons)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 10:46:28 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Collection of feathers
In-Reply-To: <AM9P193MB0967830080158536E82F60ABAF069@AM9P193MB0967.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM9P193MB0967830080158536E82F60ABAF069@AM9P193MB0967.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAF7GCDbAGnLf2jaxK3Oj=kAqOjkfNDx1z8=aAr8PbyiC7k2==w@mail.gmail.com>

For loose feathers (those not attached to a specimen), you might consider
housing them in polyethylene or Mylar sheet protectors. This is the system
used by Dra. Letty Salinas S?nchez in the Departamento de Ornitolog?a at
the Museo de Historia Natural in Lima. It works well to keep the feathers
from being damaged, and they can be examined without having to remove them
from the sheet protectors, and an identification label included with each
feather. Letty has built up a very useful collection of loose feathers that
are used in forensic identification. Here is a photo of the system:
[image: image.png]

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 7:42 AM Sergio Montagud <sergio.montagud at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi all
>
>
>
> We want to afford a new collection of feathers, because a lot of people
> bring us them and some are particularly interesting for new areas and/or
> rare species.
>
>
>
> Can someone recommended the best practice for this type of collection? Or
> perhaps some reference or article about this subject?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
> Sergio
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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From HawksC at si.edu  Thu Nov 17 12:29:32 2022
From: HawksC at si.edu (Hawks, Catharine)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 17:29:32 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Collection of feathers
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDbAGnLf2jaxK3Oj=kAqOjkfNDx1z8=aAr8PbyiC7k2==w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AM9P193MB0967830080158536E82F60ABAF069@AM9P193MB0967.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <CAF7GCDbAGnLf2jaxK3Oj=kAqOjkfNDx1z8=aAr8PbyiC7k2==w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL1PR12MB511161450C1C6139874E6F5FBF069@BL1PR12MB5111.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

I like John's recommendation. One caveat is to make sure that any backing paper used in the envelope (Mylar is the preferred envelope), is pH neutral, 100% cotton rag paper. Avoid paper that has an alkaline reserve because direct contact with alkalis will increase the rate of oxidation of the pigments in the feathers.

Cathy
Catharine Hawks (she, her)
Conservator
Collections Program
MRC 170 Rm M85-J
National Museum of Natural History
10th Street & Constitution Ave NW
Washington DC 20560
w 202.633.0835 or 4041  c 703 200 4370
hawksc at si.edu<mailto:hawksc at si.edu>

SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION
NATIONAL MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY
Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/nmnh.fanpage/>  |  Twitter<https://twitter.com/NMNH>  |  Instagram<https://www.instagram.com/smithsoniannmnh/>


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of John E Simmons
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 10:46 AM
To: Sergio Montagud <sergio.montagud at gmail.com>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Collection of feathers

External Email - Exercise Caution
For loose feathers (those not attached to a specimen), you might consider housing them in polyethylene or Mylar sheet protectors. This is the system used by Dra. Letty Salinas S?nchez in the Departamento de Ornitolog?a at the Museo de Historia Natural in Lima. It works well to keep the feathers from being damaged, and they can be examined without having to remove them from the sheet protectors, and an identification label included with each feather. Letty has built up a very useful collection of loose feathers that are used in forensic identification. Here is a photo of the system:
[cid:image001.png at 01D8FA80.3A8A2700]
--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Associate Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 7:42 AM Sergio Montagud <sergio.montagud at gmail.com<mailto:sergio.montagud at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all

We want to afford a new collection of feathers, because a lot of people bring us them and some are particularly interesting for new areas and/or rare species.

Can someone recommended the best practice for this type of collection? Or perhaps some reference or article about this subject?

Thanks in advance!

Sergio
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
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mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
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From tlabedz1 at unl.edu  Thu Nov 17 12:49:38 2022
From: tlabedz1 at unl.edu (Thomas Labedz)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 17:49:38 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Collection of feathers
In-Reply-To: <AM9P193MB0967830080158536E82F60ABAF069@AM9P193MB0967.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM9P193MB0967830080158536E82F60ABAF069@AM9P193MB0967.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <SA2PR08MB65407EEF558A88C6C7518EF686069@SA2PR08MB6540.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Sergio
John and Cathy give excellent examples. And to go a little more. For decades now any bird preparation resulting in feathers detached from the main specimen had those feathers maintained in a polyethylene envelope with the collecting data. These make ready samples for anyone wanting to experiment with DNA extraction, isotopes, plumage pigments, etc. without direct impact to the primary specimen, as well aids for feather identification.
Thomas

Thomas E. Labedz (Mr.), Collections Manager
Division of Zoology and Division of Botany
University of Nebraska State Museum
Morrill Hall
645 North 14th Street
Lincoln, NE 68588-0338
402/472-8366
tlabedz1 at unl.edu<mailto:tlabedz1 at unl.edu>   www.museum.unl.edu<http://www.museum.unl.edu>

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Sergio Montagud
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 6:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Collection of feathers

Non-NU Email
________________________________
Hi all

We want to afford a new collection of feathers, because a lot of people bring us them and some are particularly interesting for new areas and/or rare species.

Can someone recommended the best practice for this type of collection? Or perhaps some reference or article about this subject?

Thanks in advance!

Sergio
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From phorsley at sdnhm.org  Thu Nov 17 16:56:38 2022
From: phorsley at sdnhm.org (Pam Horsley)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 21:56:38 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Job advertisement: SDNHM Curator of Entomology
Message-ID: <BYAPR07MB498205A89B5F845A82431EE9D4069@BYAPR07MB4982.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Dear colleagues,

My apologies for cross-posting.

The San Diego Natural History Museum is hiring a Curator of Entomology. Please see attached job advertisement for further details or the webpage: https://www.sdnhm.org/about-us/employment/

If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to me.

Thanks,
Pam

Pamela Horsley
Entomology Collection Manager and Collections Registrar
[cid:image001.png at 01D3338B.B95E6BC0]

P 619.255.0193
E phorsley at sdnhm.org<mailto:phorsley at sdnhm.org>

If we seem busy, it's because we have millions of years of work to do. Find out<https://www.sdnhm.org/science/science-blog/> what we're up to.

Mailing address: P.O. Box 121390, San Diego, CA 92112-1390
Street address: 1788 El Prado, San Diego, CA  92101
Website<http://www.sdnhm.org/>   Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/SanDiegoNaturalHistoryMuseum>  Twitter<http://www.twitter.com/SDNHM>

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From sergio.montagud at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 13:33:33 2022
From: sergio.montagud at gmail.com (Sergio Montagud)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:33:33 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Collection of feathers
In-Reply-To: <SA2PR08MB65407EEF558A88C6C7518EF686069@SA2PR08MB6540.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM9P193MB0967830080158536E82F60ABAF069@AM9P193MB0967.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <SA2PR08MB65407EEF558A88C6C7518EF686069@SA2PR08MB6540.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P193MB09674F3FA66069AA20371F67AF099@AM9P193MB0967.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>


Thank you very much for your recommendations and help. To John, Cathy, Valerie and Thomas.

Yes, we can maintain the rH and temperature between 45 % and 18 ?C. This is the settings in the room that all taxidermical material are deposited.

Thanks again for your comments

Sergio


De: Thomas Labedz <tlabedz1 at unl.edu>
Fecha: jueves, 17 de noviembre de 2022, 18:49
Para: Sergio Montagud <sergio.montagud at gmail.com>, nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Asunto: RE: Collection of feathers
Sergio
John and Cathy give excellent examples. And to go a little more. For decades now any bird preparation resulting in feathers detached from the main specimen had those feathers maintained in a polyethylene envelope with the collecting data. These make ready samples for anyone wanting to experiment with DNA extraction, isotopes, plumage pigments, etc. without direct impact to the primary specimen, as well aids for feather identification.
Thomas

Thomas E. Labedz (Mr.), Collections Manager
Division of Zoology and Division of Botany
University of Nebraska State Museum
Morrill Hall
645 North 14th Street
Lincoln, NE 68588-0338
402/472-8366
tlabedz1 at unl.edu<mailto:tlabedz1 at unl.edu>   www.museum.unl.edu<http://www.museum.unl.edu>

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Sergio Montagud
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 6:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Collection of feathers

Non-NU Email
________________________________
Hi all

We want to afford a new collection of feathers, because a lot of people bring us them and some are particularly interesting for new areas and/or rare species.

Can someone recommended the best practice for this type of collection? Or perhaps some reference or article about this subject?

Thanks in advance!

Sergio
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From Tonya.Haff at csiro.au  Mon Nov 21 19:21:14 2022
From: Tonya.Haff at csiro.au (Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace))
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 00:21:14 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula
In-Reply-To: <LO2P123MB6263AF2894888AF04D2E50D8B4069@LO2P123MB6263.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ME2PR01MB55084AB07E25B9EDC0501F3EEE079@ME2PR01MB5508.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <DBEF9884-9096-49A3-8421-5D95D53CCCB0@btinternet.com>
 <354086d5-1fa6-6e4e-b885-2ab9549e53a6@leibniz-lib.de>
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Message-ID: <ME2PR01MB5508D7939080600FCFF8DCD7EE0D9@ME2PR01MB5508.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hello all,

Thanks so much for your contributions to how to deal with specimens in Bouin's formula. And it is great to know that there are safe ways to dealing with the specimens without having to get them carted off by the bomb squad. Luckily we have hardly any jars with metal lids, but Dirk you are right  - often the specimens preserved in Bouin's are in relatively small containers that evaporate easily. Anyway, and as usual, I really appreciate all the knowledge, and I return to our collections much better prepared.

Cheers,

Tonya
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Julian Carter <Julian.Carter at museumwales.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2022 10:01 PM
To: Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula


Hi Tonya,

I?ve moved alot of material, both invertebrate and vertebrate, out of Bouin?s over the years through an alcohol series with no issues. You may not remove all traces of the original fluid in that a yellow tint will appear in the new solution over time, but any residual ?Bouin?s? is going to be highly diluted by this stage. Dried picric acid in jar threads etc is a potential hazard but as already mention a soak in water will sort this. Similarly this may be an issue with dried out material and this presents a good case for attempting rehydration of such material if it is to be retained.

All the best

Jules

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Dirk Neumann
Sent: 17 November 2022 07:33
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Bouin's formula



Hi Tonya,



Simon's and Paul's  recommendation are straight forward, and we have to assume that specimens in Bouin's are present in many collections. They are usually very easy to spot because of the intense and bright light yellow colour of the fluid, which also stains the alcohol after the transfer of the specimens.



Often these specimens entered collections as research specimens after taking histological samples from those vouchers, therefore, they often are not stored in qualitatively high and especially tight closing jars we normally would use for storage of specimens. Thus transferring them to better jars is an option to stabilise them, but if you know that you have Bouin-preserved specimens in your collection, it is useful to know where these jars are and to have a closer monitoring for those jars in the collection. Often, the volume of the jars is less then 50 ml and thus these jars have a higher risk to dry up unnoticed.



Bouin's is a water-based acidic fixative, often leading to considerable shrinkage of tissues and of course loss of calcium carbonate from bones. If they are no longer needed or wanted for histology and should be transferred into alcohol, you would like to avoid rinsing them in water and exposing them for too long in low concentrated alcohol. In Fact - at least for larger and specimens with a more stable tissue matrix - it might be better not to step but to transfer them into 50% EtOH or even higher. A key factor here is the question how stable the tissues and tissue membranes are to withstand this sudden osmotic shock (as this more or less direct transfer extracts water from the cells, of course), or, vice versa, how damaged tissues and membranes are after prolonged exposure in an highly acidic storage fluid.



Usually, after the transfer into alcohol, more picric acid escapes from the specimens, which you can easily notice because of the vivid yellow staining of the alcohol. As we have to assume that this has an effect on the pH equilibrium (without wanting to dive into the details of "measuring pH in alcohols" here), it is worth considering to exchange the alcohol after some time has lapsed again. Time intervals depend on common factors as 'number of specimens', 'volume of the container', 'osmotic pressure', etc. My rule of thumb was if I could notice a considerable yellow stain after transfer, I would exchange the alcohol again.



Again and as often, not a clear cut answer, but hopefully somewhat useful.



With best wishes

Dirk





Am 17.11.2022 um 01:58 schrieb Simon Moore:

Hi Tonya,



I used to deal with Bouin?s fluid back in my histology days.  The only slight risk is if the picric acid content has dried to yellow crystals and you have screw top jars.  The picric acid is a tri-nitrate so yes, it?s unstable and might spark a bit in this situation.  If this is so, then immerse the jars in cold water so that the picric acid goes back into solution and is then quite safe.  I have had dry picric acid situations like this before and this method has always worked well and no fireworks!



With all good wishes, Simon



Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR

Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,



www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>









On 16 Nov 2022, at 23:31, Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au><mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au> wrote:



Hello all,



We have quite a few specimens (mostly macropod pouch young, turtle embryos and turtle organs) that have been preserved in Bouin?s formula, which contains picric acid. I know that picric acid is explosive on impact, and so we are wary of the potential risk that the jars of those specimens may pose. However, I don?t have any real understanding of what the actual risk of explosion might be? should these specimens and their jars be disposed of because opening them poses too much of a risk, or are the levels of picric acid so insignificant as to not pose a risk? Or is there some halfway point, but a way of safely opening the jars without calling the bomb squad? If any of you have thoughts or experience with this I would really appreciate it!



Cheers,



Tonya



-------------------------------------------------

Dr. Tonya M. Haff

Collection Manager

Australian National Wildlife Collection

CSIRO

+61(0)419569109

https://www.csiro.au/en/about/facilities-collections/collections/anwc



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NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of

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natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to

society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.

Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



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_______________________________________________

NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of

Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose

mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of

natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to

society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.

Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--

****



Dirk Neumann

Collection Manager, Hamburg



Postal address:

Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis

of Biodiversity Change

Dirk Neumann

Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3

20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628

d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>

www.leibniz-lib.de



--
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Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst



--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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From Andrew.Haycock at museumwales.ac.uk  Mon Nov 28 11:22:01 2022
From: Andrew.Haycock at museumwales.ac.uk (Andrew Haycock)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 16:22:01 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: GCG and SMMP one day online symposium & GCG 49th AGM
 - 1st Dec
In-Reply-To: <LO2P265MB4232B91708BA6007C53958B1AA0E9@LO2P265MB4232.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <LO2P265MB4232B91708BA6007C53958B1AA0E9@LO2P265MB4232.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <LO0P123MB6539F305445CF3E6D575CC29CD139@LO0P123MB6539.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Apologies for cross posting

Many thanks,

Kind regards
Andrew

From: The Geological Curators Group mailing list <GEO-CURATORS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK> On Behalf Of Emma Bernard
Sent: 25 November 2022 14:48
To: GEO-CURATORS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: GCG and SMMP one day online symposium & GCG 49th AGM - 1st Dec

Some people who received this message don't often get email from 00008a9df8e3cb90-dmarc-request at jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:00008a9df8e3cb90-dmarc-request at jiscmail.ac.uk>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
Hi everyone,

The Geological Curators Group (GCG) and the Society of Mineral Museum Professionals (SMMP) are excited to this year be hosting a joint online symposium, to be held on Thursday Dec 1st.

We are less than one week away from the Uniting Earth Science Collections Symposium!
We have a FULL DAY of 12 talks and 6 posters from presenters around the world. The fascinating topics are wide ranging from historical specimens and collectors, sustainability, the mineral market, digitisation, new exhibitions, decolonisation, outreach and analysis to mention just a few! It is going to be an exciting and informative symposium.

Register now!
GCG and SMMP Members: ?14, Students: ?14, Non-members: ?19.  Please note all presenters are required to register to attend.
You can book here: https://www.geocurator.org/events/AGM2022<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocurator.org%2Fevents%2FAGM2022&data=05%7C01%7Cr.hansen%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7b823d7f28774152bc7a08daced9c952%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C638049732023032236%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NWT9TvqNDq1%2B1REh4vdYy3rRuckCH%2Bd%2BWbA3ztYQ9CE%3D&reserved=0>

Deadline for registration is 30th Nov, so book now!

The 49th GCG AGM will take place online 13:45 - 15:00, details will be circulated next week.

And don't forget to join our social event afterwards for a pub-style quiz and chat!


All the best,

Emma


Emma Bernard
(she/her)

GCG Secretary

________________________________

To unsubscribe from the GEO-CURATORS list, click the following link:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=GEO-CURATORS&A=1
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From battermann at snsb.de  Mon Nov 28 17:16:21 2022
From: battermann at snsb.de (battermann at snsb.de)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 23:16:21 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Collection visits: terms of usage
Message-ID: <007e01d90377$0bc8f090$235ad1b0$@snsb.de>

Dear colleagues,

 

as the terms of collection visits are currently discussed at our
collections, I was wondering what 'terms and conditions' (in German: we are
thinking about Nutzungsbedingungen vs. Gastforschervertrag) researchers have
to sign before they are allowed to work in your collections. Are there
guidelines for this?

 

We are currently asking visitors to sign a form that states:

*	Personal details of the visitor
*	Time frame of visit
*	Usage of equipment: visitor has to stick to health and safety
measures and be careful with all equipment; our institution has to train
user in usage of equipment
*	Insurance policy and liability
*	Termination of visit

 

I was thinking of adding:

*	Publications: we are to receive copies of all publications and data
recorded in our collections (including photos etc.)
*	Citation: our collection should be cited and the object ID stated
*	Methods: the methods used should be stated (imaging, measuring,
invasive sampling)

 

As to the process of collection this information: do you confirm a visit to
the collections and have visitors sign such an agreement upon arrival? Do
you collect the data and required signatures in the context of applications
for collection visits.?

 

Any input would be much appreciated. 

Best wishes,

Nora

 

---------

Dr. Nora Battermann

Koordination Sammlungsassessment

 



 

SNSB - Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns

Zentrale Einrichtungen

 

Tel.: +49 (0)174 2762445

 

www.snsb.de

 

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From Director.Samnoblemuseum at ou.edu  Tue Nov 29 13:54:57 2022
From: Director.Samnoblemuseum at ou.edu (Director samnoblemuseum)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 18:54:57 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Job Opportunity-Collection Manager, Fishes,
 Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural History
Message-ID: <SJ0PR03MB572520F16B8F95800AC6BE1E87129@SJ0PR03MB5725.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Job Opening
Collection Manager of Fishes
Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural History

The Sam Noble Museum, University of Oklahoma-Norman Campus is seeking a full-time Collection Manager to be responsible for the daily curatorial operations and management of the museum?s ichthyology (fish) collection. The Collection Manager: supports the development and maintenance of the collection, database, and supports research and exhibition programs; maintains the Fish Collection website, including the online database and image library; ensures proper permits and documentation for field collection and loan and exchange of museum specimens; assists the curator, faculty, scholars, and students in obtaining and identifying specimens for their research projects; assists in organizing and preparing presentations and programs highlighting collection materials and research activities; and trains and supervises students, interns and volunteers, and helping visitors make use of the collection.

Duties:

  *   Managing and maintaining the collection and its records, documentation, and images incorporating practices, standards, philosophy, and theory of collection stewardship
  *   Identifying, preparing, cataloging, and digitizing specimens for new and existing collections
  *   Preparing specimens for accessioning and incoming and outgoing loans, including providing documentation and securing permissions and permits
  *   Assisting and supporting the research program of the Curator of Fishes, conducting collection-related research as directed and may assist in grant proposal preparation
  *   Assisting with development, implementation, and maintenance of temporary and permanent exhibitions based on the fish collection
  *   Meeting with visitors to the collection, filling patron requests (remotely and in-person), giving tours to the public, and giving presentations or informal classes
  *   Training and supervising student, volunteers, and interns in collection management tasks
  *   Supporting public programs and educational and outreach activities as appropriate
  *   Performs various duties as needed to successfully fulfill the function of the position


Required Education and Skills:
This position requires a Bachelor?s degree or 48 months of museum-related work experience in lieu of the Bachelor?s degree. Required skills include: a demonstrated knowledge of acceptable museum practices and standards for collection care, collection and database management, documentation, digitization, conservation, and registration methods for collections; knowledge of best practices for the preservation and exhibition of physical objects and their data (e.g., metadata standards, data management, etc.); interpersonal skills commensurate with representing the collection in one-on-one and group settings; excellent written and oral communication skills; excellent skills in organization and time management; ability to work independently and in teams; must use established occupational health and safety practices.

Preferred Skills: Preferences are a M.S. degree (zoology, biology, or related field) with an emphasis in fish biology and 12-24 months of collection-related experience in biological museum collections, including collection and database management, digitization, and specimen preparation.

This is a full-time position (40 hours per week). Salary: $18.27 per hour; full benefits.

For more information about the museum, visit the museum website at: samnoblemuseum.ou.edu<http://samnoblemuseum.ou.edu/>. Applications will be reviewed until a candidate is selected. Applicants must submit a cover letter addressing skills/experience not otherwise explicit in resume, an up-to-date resume, and a list of three references. Hiring contingent on a background check and driver?s license check.

Applications must be submitted using the on-line application process. To apply, go to https://jobs.ou.edu and search for job number 223089. Materials submitted in an application for this position become the property of the University of Oklahoma. Deadlines are subject to change without notice. The University of Oklahoma is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer and encourages diversity in the workplace.






[cid:0597a036-446b-4a40-a200-a0ec8f7210bf]

Dr. Janet K. Braun

Interim Director

t. 405.325.5198

Sam Noble Museum

University of Oklahoma

2401 Chautauqua Ave.

Norman, OK 73072-7029






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