[Nhcoll-l] Taxonomic vs. catalog-number arrangements
Tom Schiøtte
tschioette at snm.ku.dk
Wed Feb 15 15:12:49 EST 2023
Yes Paul, your arguments are irrefutable, and I will probably not have any big problems with surrendering, when you combine with metal trays with open corners. One inbuilt prerequisite for it all is of course that you can muster the economy and work force to have the whole collection digitally cataloged.
Cheers
Tom
Tom Schiøtte
Collection manager, Echinodermata & Mollusca
Natural History Museum of Denmark (Zoology)
Universitetsparken 15
DK 2100 Copenhagen OE
+45 35 32 10 48
TSchioette at snm.ku.dk<mailto:TSchioette at snm.ku.dk>
From: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
Sent: 15. februar 2023 20:44
To: Rob Robins <rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu>; Tom Schiøtte <tschioette at snm.ku.dk>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: RE: Taxonomic vs. catalog-number arrangements
Not to harp on this, but the problem Tom raises with multiple lots being in jars together was also discussed in the SPNHC paper on our tray system. This arrangement is common in collections, but unsatisfactory for more reasons than just that it can make getting to the lot you're after a messy pain.
By adopting trays you can transfer small lots from collective jars to individual 4- or 6-dram vials that would be a nightmare if stood up loose on open shelving but that are convenience itself in racks. This is how a lot of wet insects are stored.
One thing we got wrong, however, was to assume that transferring, say, 12 lots from cotton-stoppered shell vials in a single 16-ounce jar to individual vials as above would increase the overall alcohol volume. On the contrary, it actually decreases it, as the spandrel spaces between the shell vials are no longer there, together with the alcohol that was above the enclosed vials.
Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University, Philadelphia
callomon at ansp.org<mailto:callomon at ansp.org> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Rob Robins
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:32 PM
To: Tom Schiøtte <tschioette at snm.ku.dk<mailto:tschioette at snm.ku.dk>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Taxonomic vs. catalog-number arrangements
External.
Hi Tom,
This is a valid concern on its face, but in practice it is actually often the opposite.
As just one example, I have spent an entire day looking for 10 of 963 lots of a common species (Lepomis marginatus) in a phylogenetically arranged collection.
In a container sized barcoded collection, I need only ask the database the location of the 10 lots and with absolute certainty, go to retrieve them from their known locations.
Contrast this with trying to keep 10 numbers in one's head while simultaneously visually scanning a dozen or more full shelves. One effectively ends up emptying all the shelves, especially after the collection has grown dense.
Yes, many requests are for one or two specimen lots. But again, barcode container size proves more efficient or at least as simple as the exact location is known before the search begins.
Best wishes,
Rob
P.S. This is to say nothing of the problem inflicted on searches by synonymy, whereby a single taxon might be store in multiple locations throughout the phylogeny (e.g., Notrois venustus vs. Cyprinella venusta, etc...). Presuming one knows to look under multiple names in the first place....
Robert H. Robins
Collection Manager
Division of Ichthyology
[FLMNH Fishes logo email small]
Florida Museum
1659 Museum Rd.
Gainesville, FL 32611-7800
Office: (352) 273-1957
rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu<mailto:rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu>
The UF Fish Collection is moving:
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Search the Collection:
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Search samples suitable for dna analysis:
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From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Tom Schiøtte
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:07 PM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Taxonomic vs. catalog-number arrangements
[External Email]
I can see the very good points in Rob's and Paul's suggestions for arrangement. The reason I would nevertheless hesitate to adopt a non-taxonomic system is that the majority of work done on the material in the collections is taxonomic or somehow related to taxonomy. Taking material out for such work will be far more time consuming if the lots are arranged after numbers or size.
Once when I was revising a genus of small snails I visited a collection that was arranged after catalog numbers. Following some unholy natural law, all the little glass tubes with the specimens of that genus were placed in different jars of hundreds of glass tubes, and always at the bottom of the jars with a pile of interesting, but (for my purpose) frustratingly irrelevant lots from other genera on top of them.
But yes, it saves space, and yes, I would very much like to prevent people from inserting unregistered material in the collection, so I do see the good points.
Cheers
Tom
From: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Sent: 15. februar 2023 15:23
To: Rob Robins <rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu<mailto:rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu>>; Tom Schiøtte <tschioette at snm.ku.dk<mailto:tschioette at snm.ku.dk>>; Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: Shelf depth for EtOH jar collections: taxonomic vs. catalog-number arrangements
I support Rob's approach. Organizing wet collections systematically has serious disadvantages in terms of fragmented expansion space that only get worse as the collection grows. Some points:
- Under most US fire codes, you are not allowed to open containers or work on their contents in the same space as that within which the collection is stored (you need a separate "wet lab"). As the specimens must be removed for inspection anyway there is thus little advantage in organizing your storage facility by taxonomy. Arrangements by catalog number and/or container size make far more sense, and even a spreadsheet will do as a retrieval guide. It also means that retrieval and return of lots does not require taxonomic knowledge or guide books (physical or digital) that have to be constantly updated.
- A further disadvantage of taxonomic arrangements in wet collections is that is hard to tell when something is missing, or when someone has added an uncataloged container to a genus or family. We discovered hundreds of such instances when we recently converted our wet general invertebrates from a systematic to a catalog-number arrangement. Roughly ten percent of the bottles had been placed there over the decades by curators without entering them in the catalog. We had no way of knowing they were there. Some were type specimens...
- Systematics change, and if that matters to you then you'll have to take the time and risk of physically reorganizing things periodically (risk, because whenever you move jars they can get dropped). If it doesn't, then why have that arrangement in the first place?
Now, with our trayed catalog-number arrangement, we can tell if something has been removed and not returned, and it is impossible to put uncataloged material into the sequence. We also know exactly how much remaining free shelf space we have at any given time, as it's all at one end and not dispersed in pockets at the ends of thousands of genera.
Incidentally, we've had a catalog-number arrangement in our wet mollusks since 1976. Databases are not new.
Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University, Philadelphia
callomon at ansp.org<mailto:callomon at ansp.org> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Rob Robins
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 8:39 AM
To: Tom Schiøtte <tschioette at snm.ku.dk<mailto:tschioette at snm.ku.dk>>; Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Shelf depth for EtOH jar collections
External.
Hi Tonya et al.,
Related to shelf depth is of course the height at which you space the shelves in your new facility.
Many collections "start" with all shelves spaced at a minimum meant to accommodate the largest jar in common use.
For many in the U.S. that is 1 gallon jar (~4 liters) of approximately 300mm height.
The trouble with this approach of course is that as the collection grows, shelf spacing "devolves" to lower heights as managers take pains to accommodate growth (and they are pains).
This is an easy trap to fall into, as at least in fishes, most fish and fish lots are small, and collections grow and space must be "made."
(E.g., a recent randomized survey of 65 of our 5,286 shelves projects that of the UF Fish Collection's 178,000 containers, 67,032 are 4oz jars (118 ml)).
Inevitably, this course of action leads to conflicts whereby still more new materials in large jars need to be placed on shelves that can no longer accommodate them. At least if one is to try and maintain a semblance of current phylogenetic order (something few, if any large collections accomplish - on those that do inevitably, only for a short moment in time).
( The cost to specimens is real - when staff can't "fit" a jar on a shelf - I have seen specimens crammed into containers too small for their proper keeping, sometimes with disastrous results - all in an effort to keep one "group" of fishes together on the same shelf space).
At UF we are implementing a barcode driven, container size arrangement of the UF Fish Collection. Just a handful of the benefits include: a true inventory of the collection as it moves, updated in real time; an enormous space savings that extends the life of the facility by decades, no more large scale collection shifts, and an always current phylogeny of fishes exported to data aggregators from our Specify database.
If you'd like more details about our plans and the challenges and results to date, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Best wishes,
Rob Robins
Robert H. Robins
Collection Manager
Division of Ichthyology
[FLMNH Fishes logo email small]
Florida Museum
1659 Museum Rd.
Gainesville, FL 32611-7800
Office: (352) 273-1957
rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu<mailto:rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu>
The UF Fish Collection is moving:
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Ffish%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctschioette%40snm.ku.dk%7Cc668445dfd8d42cb6f0f08db0f8d041d%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C638120870570386682%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TX%2FnFS2Gk44w4rhaCW9r3rqv5z915te6QG3kELZb%2BSw%3D&reserved=0>
Search the Collection:
http://specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspecifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu%2Ffishes%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctschioette%40snm.ku.dk%7Cc668445dfd8d42cb6f0f08db0f8d041d%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C638120870570386682%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=H4aWHxiSApsPUF2JjnYAuOZl2W%2BBZvmB4F%2BVV%2B16tbE%3D&reserved=0>
Search samples suitable for dna analysis:
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fgrr%2Fholdings%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctschioette%40snm.ku.dk%7Cc668445dfd8d42cb6f0f08db0f8d041d%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C638120870570386682%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2FmUt7LbmkRDHcsGZVDJaSJIBkkrajCCjWVokw0TzvuU%3D&reserved=0>
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Tom Schiøtte
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 4:47 AM
To: Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff at csiro.au<mailto:Tonya.Haff at csiro.au>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Shelf depth for EtOH jar collections
[External Email]
Hi Tonya,
In Copenhagen we (generally) use shelves that are 500 mm deep. The problems that Dirk outlined with deep shelves is solved by having jars placed in wooden trays that are 500 x 235 mm (and 70 mm tall). The whole tray can be taken out for topping up, and we don't risk toppling other jars if we reach for one at the inner part of the shelf. Moreover we have the benefit that we can put labels about contents on the outer end of the tray.
Larger jars that don't fit in the trays or on the shelves are put on bottom shelves with double or triple height.
For some historical reason one of our collections uses the system in a slightly downscaled version with smaller shelf depth and therefore shorter trays. The principle remains the same, though.
Cheers
Tom
Tom Schiøtte
Collection manager, Echinodermata & Mollusca
Natural History Museum of Denmark (Zoology)
Universitetsparken 15
DK 2100 Copenhagen OE
+45 35 32 10 48
TSchioette at snm.ku.dk<mailto:TSchioette at snm.ku.dk>
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)
Sent: 15. februar 2023 04:26
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Shelf depth for EtOH jar collections
Hi again everyone,
We are getting down to the pointy bit of having to confirm the desired depth of shelving for our new ethanol vault storage. Right now our shelves are only about 300mm deep, which is really not deep enough for some larger containers. We have specified 440mm deep shelving for the new space, but before pushing 'go' I thought I would ask if any of you have thoughts or very strong opinions about optimal shelf depth for storing jars of various sizes and smaller drums.
Thanks in advance for your input!
Cheers,
Tonya
-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Tonya M. Haff
Collection Manager
Australian National Wildlife Collection
CSIRO
+61(0)419569109
https://www.csiro.au/en/about/facilities-collections/collections/anwc<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.csiro.au%2Fen%2Fabout%2Ffacilities-collections%2Fcollections%2Fanwc&data=05%7C01%7Ctschioette%40snm.ku.dk%7Cc668445dfd8d42cb6f0f08db0f8d041d%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C638120870570386682%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mNJPDWj8PO8kF6xIb2jz9xRK302SkxRAuAhxjAhv9Ns%3D&reserved=0>
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