From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Wed Nov  1 05:04:11 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 10:04:11 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] shipment of herbarium specimens to Denmark
In-Reply-To: <CALd=aC1TtsYtSuTxWrKh5PD9R_NHmi_3CCFpGOAXTrgCz9n16A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKJP7A_=eUGU5oA+mkuT7Z0n4JrhdaU3z=mSpG7grEgUqb8NdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALd=aC1TtsYtSuTxWrKh5PD9R_NHmi_3CCFpGOAXTrgCz9n16A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37bb4646-b1ed-4ba8-e7e4-e7c6394e813a@leibniz-lib.de>

Just a brief comment the open question in this excellent response:

the 9 digits are required for correct entries of your customs brokers into the electronic EU customs system (which requires the full 9 digits for valid entries). Some EU Member States rarely require to give the full 11 digits, i.e. the correct EU reference to the harmonised code + the additional specific 3 digits that connect to the respective national code /implementation. This may be required if you hand-carry material and have to fill in a proper customs declaration upon arrival at the gateway. But as said, usually this is not required for normal (postal) shipments.

To avoid import taxes, it is advisable to term the included material either as preserved botanic museum material (herbarium sheets) - or preserved zoological museum material (+ description which kind of material), respectively.

It is definitely worth following Gretchen recommendation to highlight the return, but it is better say return of loaned scientific museum material + statement for which type of research the material was on loan. A return (of goods) usually requires reference to the original customs export documentation, which in our case is usually not issued (as we don't ship commercial goods or product samples).

Hope this further supports.
With best wishes
Dirk



Am 31.10.2023 um 20:53 schrieb Meier, Gretchen:
MU uses eshipglobal.com<http://eshipglobal.com> and the website will walk you through the process with links to get the correct codes.  The harmonized Code I use is 9705.29.0000, for some reason you have to use the full 9 digits, this is the code for natural history collections of various types.  The ECCN code I use is EAR99 - which is 'other'.  Even though Herbarium specimens are technically 'goods' they have no commercial value.  I always add at least $1 per specimen so if they get lost, I can at least recoup the postage.  You'll need to print 2 copies of the address form and three copies of the commercial invoice that go in a clear mailing pouch on the outside.  Keep a copy for yourself.  I always use FedEx Priority International, if that helps at all.  Lastly, because I'm mostly returning loaned materials, I always put 'return to origin' in one of the first steps of the process.
Gretchen

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 2:00?PM Tim Flynn <tflynn at ntbg.org<mailto:tflynn at ntbg.org>> wrote:
Can anyone advise me on what I will need to include/provide when shipping herbarium specimens to Denmark? I know that I will include a customs declaration and have requested the EORI of the receiving museum (C). Is anything else needed? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Tim
Tim Flynn | Husband, Father, Curator of the Herbarium | National Tropical Botanical Garden | 3530 Papalina Road | Kalaheo, HI, 96741 | 808-332-7324 x 205 | fax: 808-332-9765
tflynn at ntbg.org<mailto:tflynn at ntbg.org>
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--
Gretchen Meier, Curator
Willard Sherman Turrell Herbarium
77 Upham Hall, 100 Bishop Circle Dr.
Miami University, Oxford, OH 45056
(513)529 2755 office, (605)254 4561 cell
she/her/hers/human

?Naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret
et mala perrumpet furtim fastidia victrix."  ~Horace
"(Drive Nature out with a pitchfork, she'll come right back,
Victorious over your ignorant confident scorn.)?



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231101/ebd6bc12/attachment.html>

From amast at fsu.edu  Wed Nov  1 13:58:59 2023
From: amast at fsu.edu (Austin Mast)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 17:58:59 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Public Participation in Digitization of Biodiversity
 Collections course in December
Message-ID: <5F394919-2283-4672-8D16-D37859BBB945@fsu.edu>

Hi, everyone!  It's our pleasure to announce the next offering of the Digitization Academy's course on public participation in digitization of biodiversity collections (see below).  Please consider sharing this announcement with others who might benefit from it.  Thanks!

With best regards,

Austin and Kalina

Austin Mast ? Professor ? Department of Biological Science ? 319 Stadium Drive ? Florida State University ? Tallahassee, FL 32306-4295 ? U.S.A. ? (850) 645-1500 ? Director ? Institute for Digital Information & Scientific Communication ? College of Communication and Information ? Florida State University ? amast at fsu.edu ? he/him

Public Participation in Digitization of Biodiversity Collections Course
Apply at https://forms.gle/J2Tf6cSDpdfDeDyN9 

We are pleased to announce the third offering of this course from iDigBio's Digitization Academy <https://digitizationacademy.org/>.  This free, online course aims to empower participants with the knowledge and skills to design and implement a biodiversity collections digitization project that successfully engages the public in online settings.  For more information on learning objectives, see the course tile at https://digitizationacademy.org/courses.  This course is targeted at those already associated with a biodiversity collection, such as collections managers, curators, student technicians, administrators, or others. The course will be relevant to a diversity of collection types.  Participants do not need prior knowledge of biodiversity informatics or specialized software. 

The course will occur from December 12?15 (Tuesday?Friday) between 11:00 am and 3:00 pm ET (= New York City time).  Participants can expect to spend three hours per day in synchronous meetings and as much as two additional hours of preparation time per day outside of class. So this is about a 20-hour time commitment.

The course will be delivered in English.  Those interested in participating from outside the US may apply.

The course will be led by Austin Mast and Kalina Jakymec, with contributions from a panel of representatives from online public participation platforms.

Applications are due by 10 am ET on Monday, November 13.  Admissions decisions are likely to be made later that day.  We expect to cap the course at about 20 participants and will make admission decisions based on the relevance of your training to your organization's future activities and a desire to engage a diversity of perspectives.

Direct any questions about the opportunity to Kalina Jakymec (kjakymec at fsu.edu) or Austin Mast (amast at fsu.edu <mailto:amast at fsu.edu>).

The Digitization Academy is funded by iDigBio and Florida State University's Institute for Digital Information and Scientific Communication.  iDigBio is funded by grants from the National Science Foundation [DBI-1115210 (2011-2018), DBI-1547229 (2016-2022), & DBI-2027654 (2021-2026)]. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this material are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of the National Science Foundation.


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231101/660e03ff/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 1451 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231101/660e03ff/attachment.p7s>

From glewis-g at oeb.harvard.edu  Wed Nov  1 14:49:55 2023
From: glewis-g at oeb.harvard.edu (Tocci, Genevieve E.)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 18:49:55 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC Wiki Down
Message-ID: <MN2PR07MB6062C3135A8DD6AFC8A34A2CD5A7A@MN2PR07MB6062.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hello all,

The SPNHC wiki is down and it appears that all of biowikifarm is down as well. I am looking into it and hopefully it will be back soon.

Thank you for your patience.

Genevieve and Emily
Best Practices co-chairs

=================================================
Genevieve E. Tocci, ALM (she/her/hers)
Senior Curatorial Technician
Harvard University Herbaria
22 Divinity Ave., Cambridge, MA 02138  U.S.A.
glewis-g at oeb.harvard.edu<mailto:glewis-g at oeb.harvard.edu>

I don't expect you to respond to my email outside your work hours.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231101/7a1a4b1c/attachment.html>

From pmayer at fieldmuseum.org  Wed Nov  1 15:51:34 2023
From: pmayer at fieldmuseum.org (Paul Mayer)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 14:51:34 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] SPNHC Awards
Message-ID: <CAMuABgtK63gOK3XaAZ1MZUQKP3iaRLo6XBmnDMX_vSv8n9j=Xw@mail.gmail.com>

*Last Call for nominations for Carolyn L. Rose Award, President?s Award,
Vendor Recognition Award, Early Career Award, and Honorary Memberships*

The SPNHC recognition and Grants Committee is inviting nominations for the
following:

*The Carolyn L. Rose Award* is our Society?s highest honor and is given to
a practitioner (SPNHC membership is not required) whose work and efforts
have promoted the values and objectives of the Society. Nominations should
include a letter of nomination, a current curriculum vitae, and letters of
recommendation.

*The President?s Award *is presented to a member or former member of SPNHC,
whose activities have furthered the objectives of the Society through
outstanding committee work, prolonged officer roles, or promotion of
activities of the Society. Nominations should include a letter of
nomination, a current curriculum vitae, and letters of recommendation.

*The Vendor Recognition Award* is presented to Commercial entities to
recognize long- term support of the Society and/or the Society?s annual
meetings. Nominations should include a letter of recommendation
highlighting evidence of contributions.

*Early Career Award* is presented to a member at an early stage in their
career, or at an early stage in their involvement with SPNHC, who has
demonstrated great potential for leadership through innovative and
energetic service that strengthens and broadens the impact of SPNHC.

*Honorary Membership* can be conferred by Council in recognition of
outstanding contributions to natural history collections or to the Society.
Honorary Members have all the rights and privileges of regular members.
Nominations should include a letter of nomination and letters of
recommendation.

More information about these awards can be found at
https://spnhc.org/what-spnhc-does/awards-and-grants/.

Questions and nominations should be directed to the Chairperson of the
Recognition and Grants Committee (Paul Mayer, pmayer at fieldmuseum.org) and
must be submitted within Two Weeks by November 17, 2023.


__________________________
Paul Mayer
Collections Manager
Fossil Invertebrates
Gantz Family Collections Center
Science and Education

*Primary Number (Cell)*
*312 401-2081*

Office Phone
312.665.7631

The Field Museum
1400 S. Jean-Baptiste Pointe DuSable Lake Shore Drive
Chicago, IL 60605-2429
fieldmuseum.org

pmayer at fieldmuseum.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231101/5c4fbfae/attachment.html>

From ondatra at berkeley.edu  Wed Nov  1 20:12:02 2023
From: ondatra at berkeley.edu (Chris J Conroy)
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 17:12:02 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] source in North America for paper shoulder boxes?
Message-ID: <CAJiXy21z43CE+vnfaJGOcEL2Jf-_seQuPehPVQ-aB25ACuz6KA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
    At the Museum of Vertebrate Zoology at UC Berkeley we have for many
years purchased custom sized shoulder boxes for our skulls and skeletons.
These boxes fit snugly into our cabinet drawers. Unfortunately, the cost in
our latest quote has gone up about 4.25 to 6.5 fold due to labor and supply
costs in the last 10 years.
     I need to shop around to find an economical solution. If your museum
purchases custom made boxes like these, and you are happy with the price, I
would love to hear who your vendor is.
    Also, costs plummet with volume. So, if anyone who is familiar with the
MVZ boxes is interested, please let me know off list.

Thanks

Chris Conroy
Staff Curator of Mammals
MVZ
UC Berkeley
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231101/27ad8020/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Shoulder box.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1753357 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231101/27ad8020/attachment-0001.jpg>

From alprice at illinois.edu  Thu Nov  2 12:16:07 2023
From: alprice at illinois.edu (Stodola, Alison Price)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 16:16:07 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] steel specimen tank vendors
Message-ID: <SJ0PR11MB5007246F4799812CB0AAA319DBA6A@SJ0PR11MB5007.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all,

Does anyone have a recommendation for a vendor/manufacturer in the U.S. for steel specimen tanks? Our institution has always used Steel Fixture Manufacturing Company in Topeka, Kansas, but we have been unable to get a response for purchasing despite many months of trying to reach someone. We need a tank that will hold ~70 gallons of ethanol. Thanks!

Alison

--------------------------------------------------
Alison Stodola (she/her/hers), Aquatic Biologist
Curator of Malacology | Illinois Natural History Survey
Prairie Research Institute | University of Illinois
1816 S. Oak Street | Champaign, IL 61820
alprice at illinois.edu<mailto:alprice at illinois.edu> | 217-300-0969 (office)
INHS Mollusk Collection<https://mollusk.inhs.illinois.edu/>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/5bbd8fe5/attachment.html>

From abentley at ku.edu  Thu Nov  2 12:19:08 2023
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 16:19:08 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] steel specimen tank vendors
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR11MB5007246F4799812CB0AAA319DBA6A@SJ0PR11MB5007.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR11MB5007246F4799812CB0AAA319DBA6A@SJ0PR11MB5007.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR01MB80201B4ADEF8303DB63C132AB2A6A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Alison

Delta Designs (also in Topeka) are the go to for tanks.  See attached.  Pricing is old (2015) but will give you an idea.  Pricing has increased dramatically due to supply chain issues and the price of steel.

Andy

    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
USA<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>

Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Stodola, Alison Price
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2023 11:16 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] steel specimen tank vendors

Hi all,

Does anyone have a recommendation for a vendor/manufacturer in the U.S. for steel specimen tanks? Our institution has always used Steel Fixture Manufacturing Company in Topeka, Kansas, but we have been unable to get a response for purchasing despite many months of trying to reach someone. We need a tank that will hold ~70 gallons of ethanol. Thanks!

Alison

--------------------------------------------------
Alison Stodola (she/her/hers), Aquatic Biologist
Curator of Malacology | Illinois Natural History Survey
Prairie Research Institute | University of Illinois
1816 S. Oak Street | Champaign, IL 61820
alprice at illinois.edu<mailto:alprice at illinois.edu> | 217-300-0969 (office)
INHS Mollusk Collection<https://mollusk.inhs.illinois.edu/>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/dbd7f10e/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Delta Designs specimens tank series 18.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 269695 bytes
Desc: Delta Designs specimens tank series 18.pdf
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/dbd7f10e/attachment-0005.pdf>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Delta Designs specimens tank series 35.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 269480 bytes
Desc: Delta Designs specimens tank series 35.pdf
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/dbd7f10e/attachment-0006.pdf>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Delta Designs specimens tank series 70.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 282421 bytes
Desc: Delta Designs specimens tank series 70.pdf
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/dbd7f10e/attachment-0007.pdf>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Delta Designs tank pricing.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 207482 bytes
Desc: Delta Designs tank pricing.pdf
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/dbd7f10e/attachment-0008.pdf>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Delta Designs tank racks.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 420020 bytes
Desc: Delta Designs tank racks.pdf
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/dbd7f10e/attachment-0009.pdf>

From rabeler at umich.edu  Thu Nov  2 12:56:01 2023
From: rabeler at umich.edu (Richard Rabeler)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 12:56:01 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] shipment of herbarium specimens to Denmark
In-Reply-To: <37bb4646-b1ed-4ba8-e7e4-e7c6394e813a@leibniz-lib.de>
References: <CAKJP7A_=eUGU5oA+mkuT7Z0n4JrhdaU3z=mSpG7grEgUqb8NdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALd=aC1TtsYtSuTxWrKh5PD9R_NHmi_3CCFpGOAXTrgCz9n16A@mail.gmail.com>
 <37bb4646-b1ed-4ba8-e7e4-e7c6394e813a@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <CA+yQcxqCwRkM535cc4yji6k=ZOE8zL4M74DoTaKRji7T1OB-pA@mail.gmail.com>

Dirk:

Thanks for the additional details.  I remember when shipping specimens was
far simpler than it is today.

When I saw Gretchen's note about using a value of $1/specimen, it reminded
me of a problem I once had with a shipment to Great Britain.  I also
thought $1/specimen was a reasonable value and did so with any
international shipments until one was returned in 2018 with a note that all
incoming packages with a value over 15 E were assessed duty.   Reducing the
value of the package was required to get that shipment to its destination.
 I suspect that limit still exists????

Sincerely,

Rich Rabeler, MICH

On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 5:04?AM Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
wrote:

> Just a brief comment the open question in this excellent response:
>
> the 9 digits are required for correct entries of your customs brokers into
> the electronic EU customs system (which requires the full 9 digits for
> valid entries). Some EU Member States rarely require to give the full 11
> digits, i.e. the correct EU reference to the harmonised code + the
> additional specific 3 digits that connect to the respective national code
> /implementation. This may be required if you hand-carry material and have
> to fill in a proper customs declaration upon arrival at the gateway. But as
> said, usually this is not required for normal (postal) shipments.
>
> To avoid import taxes, it is advisable to term the included material
> either as *preserved botanic museum material (herbarium sheets)* - or *preserved
> zoological museum material* (+ description which kind of material),
> respectively.
>
> It is definitely worth following Gretchen recommendation to highlight *the
> return*, but it is better say return of *loaned scientific museum *
> material + statement for which type of research the material was on loan. A
> return (of goods) usually requires reference to the original customs export
> documentation, which in our case is usually not issued (as we don't ship
> commercial goods or product samples).
>
> Hope this further supports.
> With best wishes
> Dirk
>
>
>
> Am 31.10.2023 um 20:53 schrieb Meier, Gretchen:
>
> MU uses eshipglobal.com and the website will walk you through the process
> with links to get the correct codes.  The harmonized Code I use is
> 9705.29.0000, for some reason you have to use the full 9 digits, this is
> the code for natural history collections of various types.  The ECCN code I
> use is EAR99 - which is 'other'.  Even though Herbarium specimens are
> technically 'goods' they have no commercial value.  I always add at least
> $1 per specimen so if they get lost, I can at least recoup the postage.
> You'll need to print 2 copies of the address form and three copies of the
> commercial invoice that go in a clear mailing pouch on the outside.  Keep a
> copy for yourself.  I always use FedEx Priority International, if that
> helps at all.  Lastly, because I'm mostly returning loaned materials, I
> always put 'return to origin' in one of the first steps of the process.
> Gretchen
>
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 2:00?PM Tim Flynn <tflynn at ntbg.org> wrote:
>
>> Can anyone advise me on what I will need to include/provide when shipping
>> herbarium specimens to Denmark? I know that I will include a customs
>> declaration and have requested the EORI of the receiving museum (C). Is
>> anything else needed? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>> Tim
>> Tim Flynn | Husband, Father, Curator of the Herbarium | National Tropical
>> Botanical Garden | 3530 Papalina Road | Kalaheo, HI, 96741 | 808-332-7324 x
>> 205 | fax: 808-332-9765
>> tflynn at ntbg.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>
>
> --
> *Gretchen Meier, Curator*
> *Willard Sherman Turrell Herbarium*
> 77 Upham Hall, 100 Bishop Circle Dr.
> Miami University, Oxford, OH 45056
> (513)529 2755 office, (605)254 4561 cell
> she/her/hers/human
>
>
> *?Naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret et mala perrumpet furtim
> fastidia victrix."  ~Horace*
> "(Drive Nature out with a pitchfork, she'll come right back,
> Victorious over your ignorant confident scorn.)?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing listNhcoll-l at mailman.yale.eduhttps://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> --
>
> ******
>
>
>
> *Dirk Neumann*
>
> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>
>
>
> Postal address:
>
> *Museum of Nature Hamburg*
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>
> of Biodiversity Change
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>
> 20146 Hamburg
> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
>
> *d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>*
>
> www.leibniz-lib.de
>
>
>
> --
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>
>
> --
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/1a7522d8/attachment.html>

From meierga at miamioh.edu  Thu Nov  2 13:07:14 2023
From: meierga at miamioh.edu (Meier, Gretchen)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:07:14 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] shipment of herbarium specimens to Denmark
In-Reply-To: <CA+yQcxqCwRkM535cc4yji6k=ZOE8zL4M74DoTaKRji7T1OB-pA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKJP7A_=eUGU5oA+mkuT7Z0n4JrhdaU3z=mSpG7grEgUqb8NdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALd=aC1TtsYtSuTxWrKh5PD9R_NHmi_3CCFpGOAXTrgCz9n16A@mail.gmail.com>
 <37bb4646-b1ed-4ba8-e7e4-e7c6394e813a@leibniz-lib.de>
 <CA+yQcxqCwRkM535cc4yji6k=ZOE8zL4M74DoTaKRji7T1OB-pA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALd=aC0Fc7HsbzWhF3eToxpk22PmOh83M2ueyb00JM6KBa-_gw@mail.gmail.com>

I recently shipped to France with a value of ~$45 and it arrived
successfully so I'm not sure if that is true for the whole EU.  I am
shipping to KEW in a few days so I will inquire if this is the case.

On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 12:56?PM Richard Rabeler <rabeler at umich.edu> wrote:

> Dirk:
>
> Thanks for the additional details.  I remember when shipping specimens was
> far simpler than it is today.
>
> When I saw Gretchen's note about using a value of $1/specimen, it reminded
> me of a problem I once had with a shipment to Great Britain.  I also
> thought $1/specimen was a reasonable value and did so with any
> international shipments until one was returned in 2018 with a note that all
> incoming packages with a value over 15 E were assessed duty.   Reducing the
> value of the package was required to get that shipment to its destination.
>  I suspect that limit still exists????
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rich Rabeler, MICH
>
> On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 5:04?AM Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Just a brief comment the open question in this excellent response:
>>
>> the 9 digits are required for correct entries of your customs brokers
>> into the electronic EU customs system (which requires the full 9 digits for
>> valid entries). Some EU Member States rarely require to give the full 11
>> digits, i.e. the correct EU reference to the harmonised code + the
>> additional specific 3 digits that connect to the respective national code
>> /implementation. This may be required if you hand-carry material and have
>> to fill in a proper customs declaration upon arrival at the gateway. But as
>> said, usually this is not required for normal (postal) shipments.
>>
>> To avoid import taxes, it is advisable to term the included material
>> either as *preserved botanic museum material (herbarium sheets)* - or *preserved
>> zoological museum material* (+ description which kind of material),
>> respectively.
>>
>> It is definitely worth following Gretchen recommendation to highlight *the
>> return*, but it is better say return of *loaned scientific museum *
>> material + statement for which type of research the material was on loan. A
>> return (of goods) usually requires reference to the original customs export
>> documentation, which in our case is usually not issued (as we don't ship
>> commercial goods or product samples).
>>
>> Hope this further supports.
>> With best wishes
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 31.10.2023 um 20:53 schrieb Meier, Gretchen:
>>
>> MU uses eshipglobal.com and the website will walk you through the
>> process with links to get the correct codes.  The harmonized Code I use is
>> 9705.29.0000, for some reason you have to use the full 9 digits, this is
>> the code for natural history collections of various types.  The ECCN code I
>> use is EAR99 - which is 'other'.  Even though Herbarium specimens are
>> technically 'goods' they have no commercial value.  I always add at least
>> $1 per specimen so if they get lost, I can at least recoup the postage.
>> You'll need to print 2 copies of the address form and three copies of the
>> commercial invoice that go in a clear mailing pouch on the outside.  Keep a
>> copy for yourself.  I always use FedEx Priority International, if that
>> helps at all.  Lastly, because I'm mostly returning loaned materials, I
>> always put 'return to origin' in one of the first steps of the process.
>> Gretchen
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 2:00?PM Tim Flynn <tflynn at ntbg.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Can anyone advise me on what I will need to include/provide when
>>> shipping herbarium specimens to Denmark? I know that I will include a
>>> customs declaration and have requested the EORI of the receiving museum
>>> (C). Is anything else needed? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>> Tim
>>> Tim Flynn | Husband, Father, Curator of the Herbarium | National
>>> Tropical Botanical Garden | 3530 Papalina Road | Kalaheo, HI, 96741 |
>>> 808-332-7324 x 205 | fax: 808-332-9765
>>> tflynn at ntbg.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Gretchen Meier, Curator*
>> *Willard Sherman Turrell Herbarium*
>> 77 Upham Hall, 100 Bishop Circle Dr.
>> Miami University, Oxford, OH 45056
>> (513)529 2755 office, (605)254 4561 cell
>> she/her/hers/human
>>
>>
>> *?Naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret et mala perrumpet furtim
>> fastidia victrix."  ~Horace*
>> "(Drive Nature out with a pitchfork, she'll come right back,
>> Victorious over your ignorant confident scorn.)?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing listNhcoll-l at mailman.yale.eduhttps://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ******
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dirk Neumann*
>>
>> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>>
>>
>>
>> Postal address:
>>
>> *Museum of Nature Hamburg*
>> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>>
>> of Biodiversity Change
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>>
>> 20146 Hamburg
>> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
>>
>> *d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>*
>>
>> www.leibniz-lib.de
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>
>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
>> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>
>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
>> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>


-- 
*Gretchen Meier, Curator*
*Willard Sherman Turrell Herbarium*
77 Upham Hall, 100 Bishop Circle Dr.
Miami University, Oxford, OH 45056
(513)529 2755 office, (605)254 4561 cell
she/her/hers/human


*?Naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurretet mala perrumpet furtim
fastidia victrix."  ~Horace*
"(Drive Nature out with a pitchfork, she'll come right back,
Victorious over your ignorant confident scorn.)?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/d7bfc416/attachment.html>

From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Thu Nov  2 13:11:15 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 18:11:15 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] shipment of herbarium specimens to Denmark
In-Reply-To: <CA+yQcxqCwRkM535cc4yji6k=ZOE8zL4M74DoTaKRji7T1OB-pA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKJP7A_=eUGU5oA+mkuT7Z0n4JrhdaU3z=mSpG7grEgUqb8NdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALd=aC1TtsYtSuTxWrKh5PD9R_NHmi_3CCFpGOAXTrgCz9n16A@mail.gmail.com>
 <37bb4646-b1ed-4ba8-e7e4-e7c6394e813a@leibniz-lib.de>
 <CA+yQcxqCwRkM535cc4yji6k=ZOE8zL4M74DoTaKRji7T1OB-pA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d63c247-3de7-caed-36e3-694cf99ab09a@leibniz-lib.de>

Hi Rich,

there once was an low value tax exemption for all shipments were the declared value was below 22 EUR. But this was completely removed with the entering into force of the new EU tax reg in March this year. This was done to counteract the substantial tax evasion observed in e-commerce business with (Southeast) Asia (basically with one specific country).

Specimens shipped under CN/HS code 9705.29.0000 are exempted from taxes in the EU, and this surely applies also to the UK, as the UK is (at the moment still) tied to via Northern Ireland to the (taxation) requirements of the Single Market of the EU.

But mind you: this tax exemption only applies to the 'goods', i.e. the specimens that are shipped. This is not a derogation from value-added taxes! This means that we have observed in the recent past that 'import taxes' where charged on the shipping costs. In some cases we could successfully claim those costs when mailing FedEx, or UPS (have not observed this with DHL Express so far, more often with UPS) when pointing to the fact that the goods themselves are tax-exempted, and that loanded research samples are not goods for which value-added taxes can be charged. Onerous emails, but sometimes successful.

@ Gretchen: you were lucky with the $45! Better avoiding this an reducing this to $1 for above given reasons.

Hope this further clarifies,

with best wishes
Dirk




Am 02.11.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Richard Rabeler:
Dirk:

Thanks for the additional details.  I remember when shipping specimens was far simpler than it is today.

When I saw Gretchen's note about using a value of $1/specimen, it reminded me of a problem I once had with a shipment to Great Britain.  I also thought $1/specimen was a reasonable value and did so with any international shipments until one was returned in 2018 with a note that all incoming packages with a value over 15 E were assessed duty.   Reducing the value of the package was required to get that shipment to its destination.   I suspect that limit still exists????

Sincerely,

Rich Rabeler, MICH

On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 5:04?AM Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>> wrote:
Just a brief comment the open question in this excellent response:

the 9 digits are required for correct entries of your customs brokers into the electronic EU customs system (which requires the full 9 digits for valid entries). Some EU Member States rarely require to give the full 11 digits, i.e. the correct EU reference to the harmonised code + the additional specific 3 digits that connect to the respective national code /implementation. This may be required if you hand-carry material and have to fill in a proper customs declaration upon arrival at the gateway. But as said, usually this is not required for normal (postal) shipments.

To avoid import taxes, it is advisable to term the included material either as preserved botanic museum material (herbarium sheets) - or preserved zoological museum material (+ description which kind of material), respectively.

It is definitely worth following Gretchen recommendation to highlight the return, but it is better say return of loaned scientific museum material + statement for which type of research the material was on loan. A return (of goods) usually requires reference to the original customs export documentation, which in our case is usually not issued (as we don't ship commercial goods or product samples).

Hope this further supports.
With best wishes
Dirk



Am 31.10.2023 um 20:53 schrieb Meier, Gretchen:
MU uses eshipglobal.com<http://eshipglobal.com> and the website will walk you through the process with links to get the correct codes.  The harmonized Code I use is 9705.29.0000, for some reason you have to use the full 9 digits, this is the code for natural history collections of various types.  The ECCN code I use is EAR99 - which is 'other'.  Even though Herbarium specimens are technically 'goods' they have no commercial value.  I always add at least $1 per specimen so if they get lost, I can at least recoup the postage.  You'll need to print 2 copies of the address form and three copies of the commercial invoice that go in a clear mailing pouch on the outside.  Keep a copy for yourself.  I always use FedEx Priority International, if that helps at all.  Lastly, because I'm mostly returning loaned materials, I always put 'return to origin' in one of the first steps of the process.
Gretchen

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 2:00?PM Tim Flynn <tflynn at ntbg.org<mailto:tflynn at ntbg.org>> wrote:
Can anyone advise me on what I will need to include/provide when shipping herbarium specimens to Denmark? I know that I will include a customs declaration and have requested the EORI of the receiving museum (C). Is anything else needed? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Tim
Tim Flynn | Husband, Father, Curator of the Herbarium | National Tropical Botanical Garden | 3530 Papalina Road | Kalaheo, HI, 96741 | 808-332-7324 x 205 | fax: 808-332-9765
tflynn at ntbg.org<mailto:tflynn at ntbg.org>
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--
Gretchen Meier, Curator
Willard Sherman Turrell Herbarium
77 Upham Hall, 100 Bishop Circle Dr.
Miami University, Oxford, OH 45056
(513)529 2755 office, (605)254 4561 cell
she/her/hers/human

?Naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret
et mala perrumpet furtim fastidia victrix."  ~Horace
"(Drive Nature out with a pitchfork, she'll come right back,
Victorious over your ignorant confident scorn.)?



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/2f67bb8f/attachment.html>

From meierga at miamioh.edu  Thu Nov  2 13:14:23 2023
From: meierga at miamioh.edu (Meier, Gretchen)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:14:23 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] shipment of herbarium specimens to Denmark
In-Reply-To: <1d63c247-3de7-caed-36e3-694cf99ab09a@leibniz-lib.de>
References: <CAKJP7A_=eUGU5oA+mkuT7Z0n4JrhdaU3z=mSpG7grEgUqb8NdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALd=aC1TtsYtSuTxWrKh5PD9R_NHmi_3CCFpGOAXTrgCz9n16A@mail.gmail.com>
 <37bb4646-b1ed-4ba8-e7e4-e7c6394e813a@leibniz-lib.de>
 <CA+yQcxqCwRkM535cc4yji6k=ZOE8zL4M74DoTaKRji7T1OB-pA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1d63c247-3de7-caed-36e3-694cf99ab09a@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <CALd=aC0BAVruj+mAEw6ZTQ767isPV-pdJ-9kTh_-EEr=LWBDJg@mail.gmail.com>

I will. Thank you for all the information!

On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 1:11?PM Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
wrote:

> Hi Rich,
>
> there once was an low value tax exemption for all shipments were the
> declared value was below 22 EUR. But this was completely removed with the
> entering into force of the new EU tax reg in March this year. This was done
> to counteract the substantial tax evasion observed in e-commerce business
> with (Southeast) Asia (basically with one specific country).
>
> Specimens shipped under CN/HS code 9705.29.0000 are exempted from taxes in
> the EU, and this surely applies also to the UK, as the UK is (at the moment
> still) tied to via Northern Ireland to the (taxation) requirements of the
> Single Market of the EU.
>
> But mind you: this tax exemption only applies to the 'goods', i.e. the
> specimens that are shipped. This is not a derogation from value-added
> taxes! This means that we have observed in the recent past that 'import
> taxes' where charged on the shipping costs. In some cases we could
> successfully claim those costs when mailing FedEx, or UPS (have not
> observed this with DHL Express so far, more often with UPS) when pointing
> to the fact that the goods themselves are tax-exempted, and that loanded
> research samples are not goods for which value-added taxes can be charged.
> Onerous emails, but sometimes successful.
>
> @ Gretchen: you were lucky with the $45! Better avoiding this an reducing
> this to $1 for above given reasons.
>
> Hope this further clarifies,
>
> with best wishes
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
> Am 02.11.2023 um 17:56 schrieb Richard Rabeler:
>
> Dirk:
>
> Thanks for the additional details.  I remember when shipping specimens was
> far simpler than it is today.
>
> When I saw Gretchen's note about using a value of $1/specimen, it reminded
> me of a problem I once had with a shipment to Great Britain.  I also
> thought $1/specimen was a reasonable value and did so with any
> international shipments until one was returned in 2018 with a note that all
> incoming packages with a value over 15 E were assessed duty.   Reducing the
> value of the package was required to get that shipment to its destination.
>  I suspect that limit still exists????
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rich Rabeler, MICH
>
> On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 5:04?AM Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Just a brief comment the open question in this excellent response:
>>
>> the 9 digits are required for correct entries of your customs brokers
>> into the electronic EU customs system (which requires the full 9 digits for
>> valid entries). Some EU Member States rarely require to give the full 11
>> digits, i.e. the correct EU reference to the harmonised code + the
>> additional specific 3 digits that connect to the respective national code
>> /implementation. This may be required if you hand-carry material and have
>> to fill in a proper customs declaration upon arrival at the gateway. But as
>> said, usually this is not required for normal (postal) shipments.
>>
>> To avoid import taxes, it is advisable to term the included material
>> either as *preserved botanic museum material (herbarium sheets)* - or *preserved
>> zoological museum material* (+ description which kind of material),
>> respectively.
>>
>> It is definitely worth following Gretchen recommendation to highlight *the
>> return*, but it is better say return of *loaned scientific museum *material
>> + statement for which type of research the material was on loan. A return
>> (of goods) usually requires reference to the original customs export
>> documentation, which in our case is usually not issued (as we don't ship
>> commercial goods or product samples).
>>
>> Hope this further supports.
>> With best wishes
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 31.10.2023 um 20:53 schrieb Meier, Gretchen:
>>
>> MU uses eshipglobal.com and the website will walk you through the
>> process with links to get the correct codes.  The harmonized Code I use is
>> 9705.29.0000, for some reason you have to use the full 9 digits, this is
>> the code for natural history collections of various types.  The ECCN code I
>> use is EAR99 - which is 'other'.  Even though Herbarium specimens are
>> technically 'goods' they have no commercial value.  I always add at least
>> $1 per specimen so if they get lost, I can at least recoup the postage.
>> You'll need to print 2 copies of the address form and three copies of the
>> commercial invoice that go in a clear mailing pouch on the outside.  Keep a
>> copy for yourself.  I always use FedEx Priority International, if that
>> helps at all.  Lastly, because I'm mostly returning loaned materials, I
>> always put 'return to origin' in one of the first steps of the process.
>> Gretchen
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 2:00?PM Tim Flynn <tflynn at ntbg.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Can anyone advise me on what I will need to include/provide when
>>> shipping herbarium specimens to Denmark? I know that I will include a
>>> customs declaration and have requested the EORI of the receiving museum
>>> (C). Is anything else needed? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>> Tim
>>> Tim Flynn | Husband, Father, Curator of the Herbarium | National
>>> Tropical Botanical Garden | 3530 Papalina Road | Kalaheo, HI, 96741 |
>>> 808-332-7324 x 205 | fax: 808-332-9765
>>> tflynn at ntbg.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Gretchen Meier, Curator*
>> *Willard Sherman Turrell Herbarium*
>> 77 Upham Hall, 100 Bishop Circle Dr.
>> Miami University, Oxford, OH 45056
>> (513)529 2755 office, (605)254 4561 cell
>> she/her/hers/human
>>
>>
>> *?Naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret et mala perrumpet furtim
>> fastidia victrix."  ~Horace*
>> "(Drive Nature out with a pitchfork, she'll come right back,
>> Victorious over your ignorant confident scorn.)?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing listNhcoll-l at mailman.yale.eduhttps://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ******
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dirk Neumann*
>>
>> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>>
>>
>>
>> Postal address:
>>
>> *Museum of Nature Hamburg*
>> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>>
>> of Biodiversity Change
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>>
>> 20146 Hamburg
>> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
>>
>> *d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>*
>>
>> www.leibniz-lib.de
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>
>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
>> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>
>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
>> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>
> --
>
> ******
>
>
>
> *Dirk Neumann*
>
> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>
>
>
> Postal address:
>
> *Museum of Nature Hamburg*
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>
> of Biodiversity Change
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>
> 20146 Hamburg
> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
>
> *d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>*
>
> www.leibniz-lib.de
>
>
>
> --
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>
>
> --
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>


-- 
*Gretchen Meier, Curator*
*Willard Sherman Turrell Herbarium*
77 Upham Hall, 100 Bishop Circle Dr.
Miami University, Oxford, OH 45056
(513)529 2755 office, (605)254 4561 cell
she/her/hers/human


*?Naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurretet mala perrumpet furtim
fastidia victrix."  ~Horace*
"(Drive Nature out with a pitchfork, she'll come right back,
Victorious over your ignorant confident scorn.)?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/0e3c7f45/attachment.html>

From tflynn at ntbg.org  Thu Nov  2 14:02:18 2023
From: tflynn at ntbg.org (Tim Flynn)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 08:02:18 -1000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] shipment of herbarium specimens to Denmark
In-Reply-To: <CAKJP7A_=eUGU5oA+mkuT7Z0n4JrhdaU3z=mSpG7grEgUqb8NdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKJP7A_=eUGU5oA+mkuT7Z0n4JrhdaU3z=mSpG7grEgUqb8NdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKJP7A8CHdq=vGa4mCi2BFbMf5jdPYa3SkEDkdrwk=i3F3CimQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you to everyone that provided advice and suggestions!
Tim
Tim Flynn | Husband, Father, Curator of the Herbarium | National Tropical
Botanical Garden | 3530 Papalina Road | Kalaheo, HI, 96741 | 808-332-7324 x
205 | fax: 808-332-9765
tflynn at ntbg.org


On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 8:00?AM Tim Flynn <tflynn at ntbg.org> wrote:

> Can anyone advise me on what I will need to include/provide when shipping
> herbarium specimens to Denmark? I know that I will include a customs
> declaration and have requested the EORI of the receiving museum (C). Is
> anything else needed? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Tim
> Tim Flynn | Husband, Father, Curator of the Herbarium | National Tropical
> Botanical Garden | 3530 Papalina Road | Kalaheo, HI, 96741 | 808-332-7324 x
> 205 | fax: 808-332-9765
> tflynn at ntbg.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231102/3eddce89/attachment.html>

From davidpshorthouse at gmail.com  Thu Nov  2 23:22:35 2023
From: davidpshorthouse at gmail.com (Shorthouse, David)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 23:22:35 -0400
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] People identifiers "roundtrip" workshop
Message-ID: <CAG+8Wb85ZUymVZFiGNQFrpGsPy2_9WbxZVUcR7g9doC-VBQXpA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello folks,

On Dec 6, 2023 13:00 ? 17:00 UTC there will be a free, online workshop
for collections data managers, collections management system
developers, and anyone with an interest in applying persistent and
unique identifiers to the people's names in collections data. See
https://bit.ly/cms-roundtrip to register.

There is a line-up of excellent speakers and domain experts from the
US, EU, and Australia who have tackled this challenge from many angles
including through the use of downloads available on Bionomia,
https://bionomia.net. Some speakers use Specify, some use EMu, and
there are other systems at play. There are two 10-15min spots
available if you are interested in demonstrating your work in the area
of people's names disambiguation and incorporation of their unique,
machine-actionable identifiers in your collections management system
or collections data. Talks will be recorded.

To help keep things lively, we will also have a "Disambiguation
Exhibition". Here's your chance to share a quick story. Perhaps you
have new insights, new challenges, or new avenues for research as a
result of examining who-is-who on labels, or you might have an
unsolved mystery to challenge attendees. The format of an "exhibition"
is 3 slides in 90 seconds and there are 8 open slots.

Please get in touch with me if you are interested in contributing
either a 10min talk or a 90 second exhibit and I will send a link to
the Google Doc used to plan the event.

Otherwise, I hope you are able to join, learn, and consider adopting a
"roundtrip" of people's identifiers in your collections data. The
agenda will be available soon.

David P. Shorthouse

From lschlenk at ku.edu  Fri Nov  3 08:00:00 2023
From: lschlenk at ku.edu (Schlenker, Lori Bryn)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2023 12:00:00 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Position Announcement: Communications Coordinator
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR0102MB3414D0A0ABEFBFAEDE797796A6A6A@DM5PR0102MB3414.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <PNAPDBRENCOM04Xok84000266cf@pst01brencom01.prod.brassring.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3414D0A0ABEFBFAEDE797796A6A6A@DM5PR0102MB3414.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR0102MB3414C588BC3B8D5954F4D5E3A6A6A@DM5PR0102MB3414.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Communications Coordinator
Biodiversity Institute
University of Kansas
The Communications Coordinator promotes and publicizes Biodiversity Institute relevant research and public programs using print media, social media, news media, radio advertisements, the BI website and other outlets.  Additionally, the position works in collaboration and coordination with BI staff to increase museum visitation and promote events for the Biodiversity Institute and Natural History Museum, as well as planning and implementing promotional events.


For additional information and to apply, go to: employment.ku.edu/staff/26544BR<http://www.employment.ku.edu/staff/26544BR>

A complete application will include an online application, cover letter, resume, contact information for three professional references, and a writing sample, such as a news release or professional brochure or newsletter. Salary range starting at $45,000 contingent upon qualifications. Initial review of applications begins November 27, 2023.

REQUIRED QUALIFICATIONS

  1.  Bachelor?s degree in journalism, public relations, marketing, communications, or relevant field.
  2.  At least one year related professional experience.
  3.  Excellent writing skills as evidenced by application materials.
  4.  Excellent oral communication skills as evidenced by work history or application materials.
  5.  Proficiency with desktop publishing and imaging software, preferably Adobe software such as Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign.
  6.  Excellent organizational skills as evidenced by application materials.
  7.  Experience working with diverse groups.

PREFERRED QUALIFICATIONS

  1.  Master?s degree in journalism, public relations, marketing, communications, or relevant field.
  2.  Five or more years related professional experience.
  3.  One or more year of experience supervising staff or students.
  4.  Professional experience at a large, public research institution or museum/cultural institution.
  5.  Experience working with Drupal or another web Content Management System (CMS).
  6.  Social media experience in community engagement.
  7.  Experience developing a strategic communications plan.
  8.  Experience with event planning and implementation.

Position requirements:
?     Willingness to work some evenings and weekends, including some outdoor events.
?     Ability to lift up to 30 lbs with or without accommodation.
?     This position is hybrid, with onsite work occurring at least 50% of work week.


KU is an EO/AAE. All qualified applicants will receive consideration for employment without regard to race, color, religion, sex, age, national origin, disability, genetic information or protected Veteran status.  http://policy.ku.edu/IOA/nondiscrimination

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231103/b145b999/attachment.html>

From jutta.buschbom at statistical-genetics.de  Mon Nov  6 01:40:40 2023
From: jutta.buschbom at statistical-genetics.de (Jutta Buschbom)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 07:40:40 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fwd: KR21 Request to Participate in EC Study On
 Copyright Issues and Challenges in Research
In-Reply-To: <5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c.a845ad2360.20231103122231.d725b06457.21a7f7fb@mail4.sea61.rsgsv.net>
References: <5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c.a845ad2360.20231103122231.d725b06457.21a7f7fb@mail4.sea61.rsgsv.net>
Message-ID: <704f48c1-4ba0-4000-98dd-1af45f68ca55@statistical-genetics.de>

Hi All,

Should you be interested in the evolution of copyright policies and the 
governance of digital data: The European Commission is currently 
conducting a survey on copyright that also goes into questions of data 
governance in general, see below.

Best wishes,

Jutta



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	KR21 Request to Participate in EC Study On Copyright Issues 
and Challenges in Research
Date: 	Fri, 3 Nov 2023 12:22:35 +0000
From: 	KR21 Secretariat <info at knowledgerights21.org>
Reply-To: 	KR21 Secretariat <info at knowledgerights21.org>
To: 	Jutta Buschbom <jutta.buschbom at statistical-genetics.de>



KR21 Request to Participate in EC Study On Copyright Issues and 
Challenges in Research Make your voice heard and speak up about on 
copyright issues and challenges in research

/View this email in your browser/ 
<https://mailchi.mp/knowledgerights21/kr21-ec-copyright-research-survey?e=a845ad2360>

	
Knowledge Rights 21 (KR21) 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=3bb94a38cc&e=a845ad2360>

/Make your voice heard and speak up about on copyright issues and 
challenges in research./


   ? act

Knowledge Rights 21 (KR21) calls on you to *participate in a survey for 
research performing organisations* that is *part of a comprehensive 
study* being prepared *for the European Commission*.


The aim of this effort conducted by the Public Policy and Management 
Institute (PPMI 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=a33eb6186e&e=a845ad2360>) 
is to *evaluate the effects of the EU copyright framework on research* 
and the effects of potential interventions and identifying and 
presenting relevant provisions for research in EU data and digital 
legislation, with a focus on rights and obligations.


*This is a moment to make your voice heard and speak up!*


     INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE IN EC STUDY ON
     COPYRIGHT ISSUES AND CHALLENGES IN RESEARCH

The Public Policy and Management Institute (PPMI 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=8756802587&e=a845ad2360>) 
is leading a *European Commission (EC) study to evaluate the effects of 
the EU copyright framework on research *and the effects of potential new 
interventions and is *inviting research performing organisations to 
participate in the survey*. Please see *a letter of support* 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=73ac3fd21d&e=a845ad2360> 
provided by the EC for more details.

The survey is specifically designed for *individuals leading your 
organisation's library, publishing functions, or overseeing its 
copyright, licensing and Open Access/Open Science policy*. This could 
include your *Library Director, Lead Copyright Officer*, or the person 
responsible for shaping your organisation's overarching Open Access/Open 
Science strategy or person involved in licensing from publishers.

*PPMI have already disseminated this survey via Legal Entity Appointed 
Representatives* and asked them to forward it to relevant persons, which 
is why you may have already received this invitation.*If you have 
already completed this survey, please kindly disregard this email. *This 
outreach through Knowledge Rights 21 ensures that PPMI captures insights 
from a wide and diverse spectrum of stakeholders.

The survey should take about *30 minutes to complete*. We would be 
grateful if you could forward this email to one of the persons/profiles 
described above.

*The survey can be accessed and completed via*
*https://survey.alchemer.eu/s3/90637829/ff8fc9ebb8f2* 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=2421643a4d&e=a845ad2360>**

The results of this survey will feed into a wider European Commission 
study on the effects of the EU copyright framework on research and the 
effects of potential interventions. The information you provide will 
help identify and present relevant potential provisions for research in 
EU data and digital legislation, focusing on rights and obligations.

Ultimately, the study will be a *key source of evidence for Priority 
Action 2 of the European Research Area Policy Agenda 2022-2024*, which 
aims to ?Propose an EU copyright and data legislative and regulatory 
framework fit for research.?

The*survey questionnaire must be completed by 23:59 (CET), 10 November 
2023.*

Any collected data will be treated confidentially, only used for 
internal purposes, and processed in line with the Privacy Statement 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=f50ea08245&e=a845ad2360>.

Should you have any inquiries or require additional information, please 
do not hesitate to contact PPMI at era2study-surveys at ppmi.lt 
<mailto:era2study-surveys at ppmi.lt>.

Twitter icon 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=6fd3c694c0&e=a845ad2360> 
LinkedIn icon 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=e22f50faed&e=a845ad2360> 
YouTube icon 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=38d01f9e33&e=a845ad2360> 
Email icon <mailto:info at knowledgerights21.org>	Website icon 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=270968b316&e=a845ad2360>


     /about us/

/Knowledge Rights 21 (KR21) is focused on bringing about changes in 
legislation and practice across Europe that will strengthen the right of 
all to knowledge. It is built on a conviction that knowledge is 
essential for education, innovation and cultural participation, and that 
everyone should have the possibility - in particular through libraries, 
archives and digitally - to access and use it./

/Knowledge Rights 21 (KR21)
Prins Willem-Alexanderhof 5, 2598 BE The Hague, Netherlands
//info at knowledgerights21.org/ <mailto:info at knowledgerights21.org>

/Want to change how you receive these emails?
You can //update your preferences/ 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/profile?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=2769f0ee4a&e=a845ad2360&c=d725b06457>/or 
//unsubscribe/ 
<https://knowledgerights21.us14.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=5c5e54d49b987a66678f4182c&id=2769f0ee4a&e=a845ad2360&c=d725b06457>


-- 

Dr. Jutta Buschbom
Gerhart-Hauptmann-Strasse 35
22926 Ahrensburg
Germany

+49 (0)4102 459264
jutta.buschbom at statistical-genetics.de
https://statistical-genetics.com

and

Data Architect, RECODE-Project
The Natural History Museum, London, UK
jutta.buschbom at nhm.ac.uk

[first name][last name]
she|her
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: OpenPGP_0x79BE669E6E3B0DFB.asc
Type: application/pgp-keys
Size: 689 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP public key
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231106/53db66ad/attachment.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: OpenPGP_signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 236 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231106/53db66ad/attachment.sig>

From cassidyk at wsu.edu  Mon Nov  6 15:04:00 2023
From: cassidyk at wsu.edu (Cassidy, Kelly Michela)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 20:04:00 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in
 preserved herps?
Message-ID: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Curious about herp preservation techniques that affect color retention and loss.

We have a garter snake that was once used as a display and/or teaching specimens. It was in a straight glass tube, sealed at the ends with a black tarry substance. About 10 or 15 years ago, I removed the snake from its glass tube because the fluid and glass had become too discolored for it to be a suitable display specimen.  I rinsed it and transferred it to a jar in 70% ethanol, but I am not sure what the fluid in the original tube was. The snake was collected in 1938. For a specimen approaching 90 years old, its color pattern was unusually sharp, but it is also much more flaccid than a typical snake fixed in formalin and preserved in ethanol. (Picture attached.) Any idea what fixative or storage chemicals might have caused better color retention but might have been less good at preservation, leading to more flaccidness?


On the other end of spectrum, we have a number of specimens, most from the mid-20th century (1950s to 1970s) that are now almost entirely bleached of color. These nearly white specimens came to Conner Museum as part of an "orphaned" collection (from Walla Walla College). Not all of the specimens from Walla Walla are bleached out. I am guessing there was a period when their fixative or storage solution contained or lacked something that caused unusual bleaching. We have no records from the collection about fixative or storage methods. What is the most likely cause of such extreme bleaching? Lack of buffering or chemicals used for buffering?  Storage in denatured ethanol?


Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
School of Biological Sciences
Box 644236
Washington State University
Pullman, WA 99164-4236
509-335-3515

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231106/3d017fa9/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Old garter snake.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 567050 bytes
Desc: Old garter snake.jpg
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231106/3d017fa9/attachment-0001.jpg>

From simmons.johne at gmail.com  Mon Nov  6 16:41:16 2023
From: simmons.johne at gmail.com (John E Simmons)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 16:41:16 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in
 preserved herps?
In-Reply-To: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <CAF7GCDZEx5Eqr5UGFKbDgh8OJVcSy5KX9Gaj4SttXA8OvsMB8w@mail.gmail.com>

Kelly,

Color change in preserved specimens is a complex problem, as I discussed at
some length in *Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference* (2014) along
with a review the available literature on the subject. In short, changes of
color may result from chemical or physical alterations of the tissues
(usually both) and may involve color loss, acquisition, or alteration. Of
the factors that cause color change, the most significant are light UV
exposure, shrinkage, and swelling. For example, in reptiles and amphibians,
yellows and greens tend to fade quickly, but blacks and browns are more
stable. The common green-to-blue change in herps is largely (but not
exclusively) due to the leaching of xanthophories by the preservative and
the alteration of iridophores by dehydration.



Color in amphibians and reptiles involves pigments (some of which are
soluble in preservatives) and light reflection and refraction, which is
altered by the shrinkage and swelling of tissues. Color change may begin
with post-mortem specimens handling (e.g., the time interval between death
and fixation or preservation, freezing the specimen, exposure to sunlight).
Once the specimen is preserved, both visible light and ultraviolet
radiation will alter colors, as will heat. The choice of preservatives is
also a factor?colors will change in different ways if the specimen is in
formaldehyde, ethanol, or isopropanol. The colors of the specimen may be
affected by dyes from the string, tags, labels, or container, and exposure
to oxidation processes, and exposure to metals (particularly copper).



The preservation literature is full of magic recipes to preserve color,
none of which work. The only universal among the recipes is that I have
never seen an article in which the colors of the live specimen and the
post-preservation specimen were compared to the same color standard, which
means that all estimations of how well the colors were preserved were
biased guesses.



The photo that you included is interesting?that is, indeed, a spectacular
retention of colors by a snake that has been in preservative (and probably
exposed to light on view?) since 1938. Typically, that level of pattern
retention is only visible on specimens kept largely in the dark (thus
protected from visible light and UV). The snake has lost its
yellow-green-red colors (most of which are alcohol soluble pigments), but
otherwise looks good. Are there any notes in your institutional archives or
collectors field books that might tell you what technique was used to
preserve the snake? There were a lot of different chemicals in use for
preservation around that time.



Keeping the true (live) color of specimens preserved in fluid is the Holy
Grail of fluid preservation, as can be seen from the numerous publications
on the subject suggesting ways to do it. Unfortunately, all of the
published magic recipes fail the color standard test. If colors of the
specimen are important, it should be photographed before it is preserved
with a color standard reference in the photo so the colors in the image can
be corrected later.



--John


John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 3:04?PM Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu>
wrote:

> Curious about herp preservation techniques that affect color retention and
> loss.
>
>
>
> We have a garter snake that was once used as a display and/or teaching
> specimens. It was in a straight glass tube, sealed at the ends with a black
> tarry substance. About 10 or 15 years ago, I removed the snake from its
> glass tube because the fluid and glass had become too discolored for it to
> be a suitable display specimen.  I rinsed it and transferred it to a jar in
> 70% ethanol, but I am not sure what the fluid in the original tube was. The
> snake was collected in 1938. For a specimen approaching 90 years old, its
> color pattern was unusually sharp, but it is also much more flaccid than a
> typical snake fixed in formalin and preserved in ethanol. (Picture
> attached.) Any idea what fixative or storage chemicals might have caused
> better color retention but might have been less good at preservation,
> leading to more flaccidness?
>
>
>
>
>
> On the other end of spectrum, we have a number of specimens, most from the
> mid-20th century (1950s to 1970s) that are now almost entirely bleached
> of color. These nearly white specimens came to Conner Museum as part of an
> ?orphaned? collection (from Walla Walla College). Not all of the specimens
> from Walla Walla are bleached out. I am guessing there was a period when
> their fixative or storage solution contained or lacked something that
> caused unusual bleaching. We have no records from the collection about
> fixative or storage methods. What is the most likely cause of such extreme
> bleaching? Lack of buffering or chemicals used for buffering?  Storage in
> denatured ethanol?
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
>
> School of Biological Sciences
>
> Box 644236
>
> Washington State University
>
> Pullman, WA 99164-4236
>
> 509-335-3515
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231106/62f521c0/attachment.html>

From cassidyk at wsu.edu  Mon Nov  6 17:20:44 2023
From: cassidyk at wsu.edu (Cassidy, Kelly Michela)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 22:20:44 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in
 preserved herps?
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDZEx5Eqr5UGFKbDgh8OJVcSy5KX9Gaj4SttXA8OvsMB8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDZEx5Eqr5UGFKbDgh8OJVcSy5KX9Gaj4SttXA8OvsMB8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY5PR01MB60030017D2696F3C555F6224CCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>

I think it was probably prepared by George Hudson, who was Conner Museum director from 1938 or 1939 to 1972 (died 1973). After he came to Conner, his focus was primarily on birds and mammals. He was a superb taxidermist. Most of the birds and mammals, plus a few mounted herps, were prepared by him. He collected herps when he was in Nebraska and some herps after he came to Conner, but I haven?t found any notes of his on herp prep. If it was Hudson who prepped it, I don?t think he used the same techniques as for his research specimens. They have fairly decent color (for their age), but not as sharp as this garter snake and his research specimens aren?t flaccid.

Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
School of Biological Sciences
Box 644236
Washington State University
Pullman, WA 99164-4236
509-335-3515

From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2023 1:41 PM
To: Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in preserved herps?


[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
Kelly,
Color change in preserved specimens is a complex problem, as I discussed at some length in Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference (2014) along with a review the available literature on the subject. In short, changes of color may result from chemical or physical alterations of the tissues (usually both) and may involve color loss, acquisition, or alteration. Of the factors that cause color change, the most significant are light UV exposure, shrinkage, and swelling. For example, in reptiles and amphibians, yellows and greens tend to fade quickly, but blacks and browns are more stable. The common green-to-blue change in herps is largely (but not exclusively) due to the leaching of xanthophories by the preservative and the alteration of iridophores by dehydration.

Color in amphibians and reptiles involves pigments (some of which are soluble in preservatives) and light reflection and refraction, which is altered by the shrinkage and swelling of tissues. Color change may begin with post-mortem specimens handling (e.g., the time interval between death and fixation or preservation, freezing the specimen, exposure to sunlight). Once the specimen is preserved, both visible light and ultraviolet radiation will alter colors, as will heat. The choice of preservatives is also a factor?colors will change in different ways if the specimen is in formaldehyde, ethanol, or isopropanol. The colors of the specimen may be affected by dyes from the string, tags, labels, or container, and exposure to oxidation processes, and exposure to metals (particularly copper).

The preservation literature is full of magic recipes to preserve color, none of which work. The only universal among the recipes is that I have never seen an article in which the colors of the live specimen and the post-preservation specimen were compared to the same color standard, which means that all estimations of how well the colors were preserved were biased guesses.

The photo that you included is interesting?that is, indeed, a spectacular retention of colors by a snake that has been in preservative (and probably exposed to light on view?) since 1938. Typically, that level of pattern retention is only visible on specimens kept largely in the dark (thus protected from visible light and UV). The snake has lost its yellow-green-red colors (most of which are alcohol soluble pigments), but otherwise looks good. Are there any notes in your institutional archives or collectors field books that might tell you what technique was used to preserve the snake? There were a lot of different chemicals in use for preservation around that time.

Keeping the true (live) color of specimens preserved in fluid is the Holy Grail of fluid preservation, as can be seen from the numerous publications on the subject suggesting ways to do it. Unfortunately, all of the published magic recipes fail the color standard test. If colors of the specimen are important, it should be photographed before it is preserved with a color standard reference in the photo so the colors in the image can be corrected later.

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 3:04?PM Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu<mailto:cassidyk at wsu.edu>> wrote:
Curious about herp preservation techniques that affect color retention and loss.

We have a garter snake that was once used as a display and/or teaching specimens. It was in a straight glass tube, sealed at the ends with a black tarry substance. About 10 or 15 years ago, I removed the snake from its glass tube because the fluid and glass had become too discolored for it to be a suitable display specimen.  I rinsed it and transferred it to a jar in 70% ethanol, but I am not sure what the fluid in the original tube was. The snake was collected in 1938. For a specimen approaching 90 years old, its color pattern was unusually sharp, but it is also much more flaccid than a typical snake fixed in formalin and preserved in ethanol. (Picture attached.) Any idea what fixative or storage chemicals might have caused better color retention but might have been less good at preservation, leading to more flaccidness?


On the other end of spectrum, we have a number of specimens, most from the mid-20th century (1950s to 1970s) that are now almost entirely bleached of color. These nearly white specimens came to Conner Museum as part of an ?orphaned? collection (from Walla Walla College). Not all of the specimens from Walla Walla are bleached out. I am guessing there was a period when their fixative or storage solution contained or lacked something that caused unusual bleaching. We have no records from the collection about fixative or storage methods. What is the most likely cause of such extreme bleaching? Lack of buffering or chemicals used for buffering?  Storage in denatured ethanol?


Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
School of Biological Sciences
Box 644236
Washington State University
Pullman, WA 99164-4236
509-335-3515

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l__;!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!tmoN3eKGXjFkCj_CdctocWWIpmeyyK_A1aNiS2MBSrR5ZdF1FmYUDKgAxi5zOJ7DcsoT2rnqy0RnkFJDPMtyAFc$>

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.spnhc.org__;!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!tmoN3eKGXjFkCj_CdctocWWIpmeyyK_A1aNiS2MBSrR5ZdF1FmYUDKgAxi5zOJ7DcsoT2rnqy0RnkFJDisgvtGc$> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231106/acdf13f2/attachment.html>

From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  6 18:04:48 2023
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 23:04:48 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in
 preserved herps?
In-Reply-To: <BY5PR01MB60030017D2696F3C555F6224CCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDZEx5Eqr5UGFKbDgh8OJVcSy5KX9Gaj4SttXA8OvsMB8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY5PR01MB60030017D2696F3C555F6224CCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <E653E764-3DF3-4430-9220-44AD9015DC5C@btinternet.com>

As John said, finding a true colour preservative, rather than one that does an OK job is indeed the Holy Grail of fluid preservationists!  Certainly, storage in the dark eliminates / reduces UV-exposure but some chromatophores are highly vulnerable to chemical as well as light changes.  Throughout my long career, I have had good results (but only good, not perfect) from various techniques but unless the conservators / preparators actually record their methods and reagents used, then this can become rather a lost cause once again!

As an example, I am still trying to find a preservative for chlorophyll.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

www.natural-history-conservation.com


> On 6 Nov 2023, at 22:20, Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu> wrote:
> 
> I think it was probably prepared by George Hudson, who was Conner Museum director from 1938 or 1939 to 1972 (died 1973). After he came to Conner, his focus was primarily on birds and mammals. He was a superb taxidermist. Most of the birds and mammals, plus a few mounted herps, were prepared by him. He collected herps when he was in Nebraska and some herps after he came to Conner, but I haven?t found any notes of his on herp prep. If it was Hudson who prepped it, I don?t think he used the same techniques as for his research specimens. They have fairly decent color (for their age), but not as sharp as this garter snake and his research specimens aren?t flaccid.
>  Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
> School of Biological Sciences
> Box 644236
> Washington State University
> Pullman, WA 99164-4236
> 509-335-3515
>  From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com> 
> Sent: Monday, November 6, 2023 1:41 PM
> To: Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu>
> Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in preserved herps?
>  [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> Kelly,
> Color change in preserved specimens is a complex problem, as I discussed at some length in Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference (2014) along with a review the available literature on the subject. In short, changes of color may result from chemical or physical alterations of the tissues (usually both) and may involve color loss, acquisition, or alteration. Of the factors that cause color change, the most significant are light UV exposure, shrinkage, and swelling. For example, in reptiles and amphibians, yellows and greens tend to fade quickly, but blacks and browns are more stable. The common green-to-blue change in herps is largely (but not exclusively) due to the leaching of xanthophories by the preservative and the alteration of iridophores by dehydration.
>  Color in amphibians and reptiles involves pigments (some of which are soluble in preservatives) and light reflection and refraction, which is altered by the shrinkage and swelling of tissues. Color change may begin with post-mortem specimens handling (e.g., the time interval between death and fixation or preservation, freezing the specimen, exposure to sunlight). Once the specimen is preserved, both visible light and ultraviolet radiation will alter colors, as will heat. The choice of preservatives is also a factor?colors will change in different ways if the specimen is in formaldehyde, ethanol, or isopropanol. The colors of the specimen may be affected by dyes from the string, tags, labels, or container, and exposure to oxidation processes, and exposure to metals (particularly copper).
>  The preservation literature is full of magic recipes to preserve color, none of which work. The only universal among the recipes is that I have never seen an article in which the colors of the live specimen and the post-preservation specimen were compared to the same color standard, which means that all estimations of how well the colors were preserved were biased guesses.
>  The photo that you included is interesting?that is, indeed, a spectacular retention of colors by a snake that has been in preservative (and probably exposed to light on view?) since 1938. Typically, that level of pattern retention is only visible on specimens kept largely in the dark (thus protected from visible light and UV). The snake has lost its yellow-green-red colors (most of which are alcohol soluble pigments), but otherwise looks good. Are there any notes in your institutional archives or collectors field books that might tell you what technique was used to preserve the snake? There were a lot of different chemicals in use for preservation around that time.
>  Keeping the true (live) color of specimens preserved in fluid is the Holy Grail of fluid preservation, as can be seen from the numerous publications on the subject suggesting ways to do it. Unfortunately, all of the published magic recipes fail the color standard test. If colors of the specimen are important, it should be photographed before it is preserved with a color standard reference in the photo so the colors in the image can be corrected later.
>  --John
>  John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
>   On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 3:04?PM Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu> wrote:
> Curious about herp preservation techniques that affect color retention and loss.
>  We have a garter snake that was once used as a display and/or teaching specimens. It was in a straight glass tube, sealed at the ends with a black tarry substance. About 10 or 15 years ago, I removed the snake from its glass tube because the fluid and glass had become too discolored for it to be a suitable display specimen.  I rinsed it and transferred it to a jar in 70% ethanol, but I am not sure what the fluid in the original tube was. The snake was collected in 1938. For a specimen approaching 90 years old, its color pattern was unusually sharp, but it is also much more flaccid than a typical snake fixed in formalin and preserved in ethanol. (Picture attached.) Any idea what fixative or storage chemicals might have caused better color retention but might have been less good at preservation, leading to more flaccidness?
>   On the other end of spectrum, we have a number of specimens, most from the mid-20th century (1950s to 1970s) that are now almost entirely bleached of color. These nearly white specimens came to Conner Museum as part of an ?orphaned? collection (from Walla Walla College). Not all of the specimens from Walla Walla are bleached out. I am guessing there was a period when their fixative or storage solution contained or lacked something that caused unusual bleaching. We have no records from the collection about fixative or storage methods. What is the most likely cause of such extreme bleaching? Lack of buffering or chemicals used for buffering?  Storage in denatured ethanol? 
>   Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
> School of Biological Sciences
> Box 644236
> Washington State University
> Pullman, WA 99164-4236
> 509-335-3515
>  _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



From nico.franz at asu.edu  Tue Nov  7 00:09:54 2023
From: nico.franz at asu.edu (Nico Franz)
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023 22:09:54 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Arizona State University: Assistant Research Professor -
 Ant Biodiversity
Message-ID: <CALZMekmJKv9ngdwkN5jhBjtbVHkM620aViF21Su836WdPL+2qQ@mail.gmail.com>

Arizona State University: Assistant Research Professor - Ant Biodiversity

The Arizona State University (ASU) School of Life Sciences (SOLS) is
seeking a Biodiversity Assistant Research Professor with specialization in
ant systematics, evolution and ecology (Insecta: Hymenoptera: Formicidae).
This is a new, primarily research-focused position set up through a
combination of a fund (endowment) donated to the ASU Foundation by ant
researcher Dr. Robert A. Johnson, with additional support from The College
of Liberal Arts and Sciences and the Biodiversity Knowledge Integration
Center (BioKIC). The position is initially set up for 10 years, and
includes salary, full university benefits, and an annual research stipend
to support the position's research activities. Programmatically, the
position is embedded within BioKIC, the ASU Biocollections, and the Social
Insect Research Group (SIRG). Jointly, these groups will provide access to
diverse, state-of-the-art research collections (e.g., the NEON
Biorepository), biodiversity informatics infrastructure, and lab
facilities, including morphological and genomic research lab spaces and
computing resources. Faculty leaders in BioKIC and SIRG will provide
continued, effective academic mentorship and career development support.

For additional information and to submit an application, please refer to:
https://apply.interfolio.com/135564

Initial deadline for applications: November 29, 2023.
Prior inquiries to Dr. Nico Franz (nico.franz at asu.edu), Director of BioKIC,
are strongly encouraged.

Nico M. Franz, Ph.D. (he/him)
Virginia M. Ullman Professor of Ecology
Director of Biocollections
School of Life Sciences
Arizona State University
E-mail: nico.franz at asu.edu
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231106/b8d38891/attachment.html>

From Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de  Tue Nov  7 00:44:53 2023
From: Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Joachim=20H=C3=A4ndel?=)
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2023 06:44:53 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in
 preserved herps?
In-Reply-To: <E653E764-3DF3-4430-9220-44AD9015DC5C@btinternet.com>
References: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDZEx5Eqr5UGFKbDgh8OJVcSy5KX9Gaj4SttXA8OvsMB8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY5PR01MB60030017D2696F3C555F6224CCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <E653E764-3DF3-4430-9220-44AD9015DC5C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <6549CED5020000B3000BD191@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>

A common cause of color fading in liquid preservation, which
unfortunately is often not considered, is the denaturant used in
denatured alcohol.
In Germany, this is often butanone (also known as methyl ethyl ketone,
MEK), a very aggressive solvent. At least with insects, I
have noticed that the colors suffer from this.

All the best

Joachim

 
--  
Joachim Haendel
 
Center of Natural History Collections
of the Martin Luther University (ZNS)
- Entomological Collection -

Domplatz 4
D-06099 Halle (Saale)
Germany

Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de

>>> Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com> 07.11.2023, 00:05 >>>
As John said, finding a true colour preservative, rather than one that
does an OK job is indeed the Holy Grail of fluid
preservationists! Certainly, storage in the dark eliminates / reduces
UV-exposure but some chromatophores are highly vulnerable to
chemical as well as light changes. Throughout my long career, I have had
good results (but only good, not perfect) from various
techniques but unless the conservators / preparators actually record
their methods and reagents used, then this can become rather
a lost cause once again!

As an example, I am still trying to find a preservative for chlorophyll.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

www.natural-history-conservation.com


> On 6 Nov 2023, at 22:20, Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu>
wrote:
>
> I think it was probably prepared by George Hudson, who was Conner
Museum director from 1938 or 1939 to 1972 (died 1973). After
he came to Conner, his focus was primarily on birds and mammals. He was
a superb taxidermist. Most of the birds and mammals, plus
a few mounted herps, were prepared by him. He collected herps when he
was in Nebraska and some herps after he came to Conner, but
I haven?t found any notes of his on herp prep. If it was Hudson who
prepped it, I don?t think he used the same techniques as for
his research specimens. They have fairly decent color (for their age),
but not as sharp as this garter snake and his research
specimens aren?t flaccid.
> Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
> School of Biological Sciences
> Box 644236
> Washington State University
> Pullman, WA 99164-4236
> 509-335-3515
> From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 6, 2023 1:41 PM
> To: Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu>
> Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss
in preserved herps?
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> Kelly,
> Color change in preserved specimens is a complex problem, as I
discussed at some length in Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive
Reference (2014) along with a review the available literature on the
subject. In short, changes of color may result from chemical
or physical alterations of the tissues (usually both) and may involve
color loss, acquisition, or alteration. Of the factors that
cause color change, the most significant are light UV exposure,
shrinkage, and swelling. For example, in reptiles and amphibians,
yellows and greens tend to fade quickly, but blacks and browns are more
stable. The common green-to-blue change in herps is
largely (but not exclusively) due to the leaching of xanthophories by
the preservative and the alteration of iridophores by
dehydration.
> Color in amphibians and reptiles involves pigments (some of which are
soluble in preservatives) and light reflection and
refraction, which is altered by the shrinkage and swelling of tissues.
Color change may begin with post-mortem specimens handling
(e.g., the time interval between death and fixation or preservation,
freezing the specimen, exposure to sunlight). Once the
specimen is preserved, both visible light and ultraviolet radiation will
alter colors, as will heat. The choice of preservatives
is also a factor?colors will change in different ways if the specimen is
in formaldthe specimen may be affected by dyes from the string, tags, labels, or
container, and exposure to oxidation processes, and
exposure to metals (particularly copper).
> The preservation literature is full of magic recipes to preserve
color, none of which work. The only universal among the recipes
is that I have never seen an article in which the colors of the live
specimen and the post-preservation specimen were compared to
the same color standard, which means that all estimations of how well
the colors were preserved were biased guesses.
> The photo that you included is interesting?that is, indeed, a
spectacular retention of colors by a snake that has been in
preservative (and probably exposed to light on view?) since 1938.
Typically, that level of pattern retention is only visible on
specimens kept largely in the dark (thus protected from visible light
and UV). The snake has lost its yellow-green-red colors
(most of which are alcohol soluble pigments), but otherwise looks good.
Are there any notes in your institutional archives or
collectors field books that might tell you what technique was used to
preserve the snake? There were a lot of different chemicals
in use for preservation around that time.
> Keeping the true (live) color of specimens preserved in fluid is the
Holy Grail of fluid preservation, as can be seen from the
numerous publications on the subject suggesting ways to do it.
Unfortunately, all of the published magic recipes fail the color
standard test. If colors of the specimen are important, it should be
photographed before it is preserved with a color standard
reference in the photo so the colors in the image can be corrected
later.
> --John
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos,
Lima
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 3:04?PM Cassidy, Kelly Michela
<cassidyk at wsu.edu> wrote:
> Curious about herp preservation techniques that affect color retention
and loss.
> We have a garter snake that was once used as a display and/or teaching
specimens. It was in a straight glass tube, sealed at the
ends with a black tarry substance. About 10 or 15 years ago, I removed
the snake from its glass tube because the fluid and glass
had become too discolored for it to be a suitable display specimen. I
rinsed it and transferred it to a jar in 70% ethanol, but I
am not sure what the fluid in the original tube was. The snake was
collected in 1938. For a specimen approaching 90 years old, its
color pattern was unusually sharp, but it is also much more flaccid than
a typical snake fixed in formalin and preserved in
ethanol. (Picture attached.) Any idea what fixative or storage chemicals
might have caused better color retention but might have
been less good at preservation, leading to more flaccidness?
> On the other end of spectrum, we have a number of specimens, most from
the mid-20th century (1950s to 1970s) that are now almost
entirely bleached of color. These nearly white specimens came to Conner
Museum as part of an ?orphaned? collection (from Walla
Walla College). Not all of the specimens from Walla Walla are bleached
out. I am guessing there was a period when their fixative
or storage solution contained or lacked something that caused unusual
bleaching. We have no records from the collection about
fixative or storage methods. What is the most likely cause of such
extreme bleaching? Lack of buffering or chemicals used for
buffering? Storage in denatured ethanol?
> Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
> School of Biological Sciences
> Box 644236
> Washington State University
> Pullman, WA 99164-4236
> 509-335-3515
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natur> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231107/4ee4d365/attachment.html>

From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Tue Nov  7 01:53:39 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 07:53:39 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in
 preserved herps?
In-Reply-To: <6549CED5020000B3000BD191@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
References: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDZEx5Eqr5UGFKbDgh8OJVcSy5KX9Gaj4SttXA8OvsMB8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY5PR01MB60030017D2696F3C555F6224CCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <E653E764-3DF3-4430-9220-44AD9015DC5C@btinternet.com>
 <6549CED5020000B3000BD191@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <adeb35be-ff28-4ee1-b41f-3faa56fa4a79@leibniz-lib.de>

Yep, concur with Joachim that denaturants or other additives can play a significant role; cf. Plate 9 in our fluid book; US<https://www.universityproducts.com/best-practices-in-the-preservation-and-management.html> / UK<https://archetype.co.uk/our-titles/preservation-and-management-of-fluid-preserved-biological-collections/?id=440>). Here, the denaturant (methyl-ethyl-ketone) is also used as an agent and running medium in chromatography. In some cases, depending of the chemical make up of the pigments, colours can be surprisingly stable, e.g. as the red pigments in some formalin-fixed and ethanol preserved killi fishes. On the other hand, even black pigments - which are usually comparatively stable - can fade, as shown in the image below. The tissue sample in pure, undenatured 96% ethanol still looks pretty nice.

Supposedly, the key to the answer of Kelley's original question is/was the original storage medium and fixation/preservation of the specimen: if the colours are already faded prior to post-mortem fixation the results won't be as good as in preparations of freshly dead specimens, as John already said.

Also, the cellular set up of the tissue and its membranes surely have an influence on the preservation of the pigments in them (cf. marine vs. freshwater specimens), and also the concentration of the ethanol itself (cf. plate 7 in our book); left, jewel cichlids during stepping up to 70% EtOH, here, leaching of the red pigments starts when moving specimens from 20% to 40 % EtOH; haemoglobin and chlorophyll leaching out of specimens shortly after their transfer from 60% into 75% EtOH.

In my personal observation, the guanine (e.g. in fish scales - vivid silvery hue) appears to be more stable at 50-60%. The quality of the sealing of the container (= oxygen barrier) surely is a relevant factor as well.

Maybe this adds some useful thoughts.

With best wishes

Dirk


[cid:part1.p8YlspBg.MnSoJH6G at leibniz-lib.de]


[cid:part2.Ho4b6dcj.zPfWlNve at leibniz-lib.de]


Am 07.11.2023 um 06:44 schrieb Joachim H?ndel:

A common cause of color fading in liquid preservation, which unfortunately is often not considered, is the denaturant used in denatured alcohol.
In Germany, this is often butanone (also known as methyl ethyl ketone, MEK), a very aggressive solvent. At least with insects, I have noticed that the colors suffer from this.

All the best

Joachim


--
Joachim Haendel

Center of Natural History Collections
of the Martin Luther University (ZNS)
- Entomological Collection -

Domplatz 4
D-06099 Halle (Saale)
Germany

Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de<mailto:joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de>

>>> Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com><mailto:couteaufin at btinternet.com> 07.11.2023, 00:05 >>>
As John said, finding a true colour preservative, rather than one that does an OK job is indeed the Holy Grail of fluid preservationists! Certainly, storage in the dark eliminates / reduces UV-exposure but some chromatophores are highly vulnerable to chemical as well as light changes. Throughout my long career, I have had good results (but only good, not perfect) from various techniques but unless the conservators / preparators actually record their methods and reagents used, then this can become rather a lost cause once again!

As an example, I am still trying to find a preservative for chlorophyll.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>


> On 6 Nov 2023, at 22:20, Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu><mailto:cassidyk at wsu.edu> wrote:
>
> I think it was probably prepared by George Hudson, who was Conner Museum director from 1938 or 1939 to 1972 (died 1973). After he came to Conner, his focus was primarily on birds and mammals. He was a superb taxidermist. Most of the birds and mammals, plus a few mounted herps, were prepared by him. He collected herps when he was in Nebraska and some herps after he came to Conner, but I haven?t found any notes of his on herp prep. If it was Hudson who prepped it, I don?t think he used the same techniques as for his research specimens. They have fairly decent color (for their age), but not as sharp as this garter snake and his research specimens aren?t flaccid.
> Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
> School of Biological Sciences
> Box 644236
> Washington State University
> Pullman, WA 99164-4236
> 509-335-3515
> From: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com><mailto:simmons.johne at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 6, 2023 1:41 PM
> To: Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu><mailto:cassidyk at wsu.edu>
> Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in preserved herps?
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> Kelly,
> Color change in preserved specimens is a complex problem, as I discussed at some length in Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference (2014) along with a review the available literature on the subject. In short, changes of color may result from chemical or physical alterations of the tissues (usually both) and may involve color loss, acquisition, or alteration. Of the factors that cause color change, the most significant are light UV exposure, shrinkage, and swelling. For example, in reptiles and amphibians, yellows and greens tend to fade quickly, but blacks and browns are more stable. The common green-to-blue change in herps is largely (but not exclusively) due to the leaching of xanthophories by the preservative and the alteration of iridophores by dehydration.
> Color in amphibians and reptiles involves pigments (some of which are soluble in preservatives) and light reflection and refraction, which is altered by the shrinkage and swelling of tissues. Color change may begin with post-mortem specimens handling (e.g., the time interval between death and fixation or preservation, freezing the specimen, exposure to sunlight). Once the specimen is preserved, both visible light and ultraviolet radiation will alter colors, as will heat. The choice of preservatives is also a factor?colors will change in different ways if the specimen is in formaldehyde, ethanol, or isopropanol. The colors of the specimen may be affected by dyes from the string, tags, labels, or container, and exposure to oxidation processes, and exposure to metals (particularly copper).
> The preservation literature is full of magic recipes to preserve color, none of which work. The only universal among the recipes is that I have never seen an article in which the colors of the live specimen and the post-preservation specimen were compared to the same color standard, which means that all estimations of how well the colors were preserved were biased guesses.
> The photo that you included is interesting?that is, indeed, a spectacular retention of colors by a snake that has been in preservative (and probably exposed to light on view?) since 1938. Typically, that level of pattern retention is only visible on specimens kept largely in the dark (thus protected from visible light and UV). The snake has lost its yellow-green-red colors (most of which are alcohol soluble pigments), but otherwise looks good. Are there any notes in your institutional archives or collectors field books that might tell you what technique was used to preserve the snake? There were a lot of different chemicals in use for preservation around that time.
> Keeping the true (live) color of specimens preserved in fluid is the Holy Grail of fluid preservation, as can be seen from the numerous publications on the subject suggesting ways to do it. Unfortunately, all of the published magic recipes fail the color standard test. If colors of the specimen are important, it should be photographed before it is preserved with a color standard reference in the photo so the colors in the image can be corrected later.
> --John
> John E. Simmons
> Writer and Museum Consultant
> Museologica
> and
> Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
> Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 3:04?PM Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu><mailto:cassidyk at wsu.edu> wrote:
> Curious about herp preservation techniques that affect color retention and loss.
> We have a garter snake that was once used as a display and/or teaching specimens. It was in a straight glass tube, sealed at the ends with a black tarry substance. About 10 or 15 years ago, I removed the snake from its glass tube because the fluid and glass had become too discolored for it to be a suitable display specimen. I rinsed it and transferred it to a jar in 70% ethanol, but I am not sure what the fluid in the original tube was. The snake was collected in 1938. For a specimen approaching 90 years old, its color pattern was unusually sharp, but it is also much more flaccid than a typical snake fixed in formalin and preserved in ethanol. (Picture attached.) Any idea what fixative or storage chemicals might have caused better color retention but might have been less good at preservation, leading to more flaccidness?
> On the other end of spectrum, we have a number of specimens, most from the mid-20th century (1950s to 1970s) that are now almost entirely bleached of color. These nearly white specimens came to Conner Museum as part of an ?orphaned? collection (from Walla Walla College). Not all of the specimens from Walla Walla are bleached out. I am guessing there was a period when their fixative or storage solution contained or lacked something that caused unusual bleaching. We have no records from the collection about fixative or storage methods. What is the most likely cause of such extreme bleaching? Lack of buffering or chemicals used for buffering? Storage in denatured ethanol?
> Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
> School of Biological Sciences
> Box 644236
> Washington State University
> Pullman, WA 99164-4236
> 509-335-3515
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231107/027fd60c/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Bx0M1m7l0qaXHIYc.png
Type: image/png
Size: 530093 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231107/027fd60c/attachment-0002.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ldUu7vm50l68MrUY.png
Type: image/png
Size: 350132 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231107/027fd60c/attachment-0003.png>

From a.j.van_dam at lumc.nl  Tue Nov  7 06:28:50 2023
From: a.j.van_dam at lumc.nl (a.j.van_dam at lumc.nl)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 11:28:50 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in
 preserved herps?
In-Reply-To: <CAF7GCDZEx5Eqr5UGFKbDgh8OJVcSy5KX9Gaj4SttXA8OvsMB8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDZEx5Eqr5UGFKbDgh8OJVcSy5KX9Gaj4SttXA8OvsMB8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AS5PR07MB100051D17A06742A3A05A0A7884A9A@AS5PR07MB10005.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Kelly,

The most stable organic pigments (melanins) are found in keratin. This is well demonstrated by the direct detection of melanin in dinosaur fossils. These pigments in keratin-rich tissue like (snake) skin and hairs can sustain quite a long time when preserved in ethanol. However, the other tissues of the specimen will lose their colour much faster and become pale/whitish in appearance.

Besides its flammability and high vapor pressure, another disadvantage of ethanol is that it dissolves lipids and extracts fat soluble organic piments (like carotenoids), leading to loss of tissue colour and yellowing of the fluid. Using glycerol 65% as an alternative solves these two problems. Glycerol has extreme low vapor pressure and does not dissolve lipids due to its high polarity.

With regard to the observed flaccidness, it might be possible that in this case fixation was only performed with ethanol (pseudo) fixation.

Kind regards,

Dries

Andries J. van Dam<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/preview?vpa=pub&locale=en_US> | curator-conservator

Anatomical Museum<https://www.lumc.nl/onderwijs/over-ons/anatomisch-museum/?setlanguage=English&setcountry=en> | Directorate of education | Leiden University Medical Center | Building 3 (V3-32)
P.O.Box 9600 | 2300 RC Leiden | Netherlands
Visiting address: Hippocratespad 21 | Tel: +31 (0)71 52 68356 | E-mail: A.J.van_Dam at lumc.nl<mailto:A.J.van_Dam at lumc.nl>

Scientific associate | Natural History Museum London





From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of John E Simmons
Sent: maandag 6 november 2023 22:41
To: Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in preserved herps?

Kelly,
Color change in preserved specimens is a complex problem, as I discussed at some length in Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference (2014) along with a review the available literature on the subject. In short, changes of color may result from chemical or physical alterations of the tissues (usually both) and may involve color loss, acquisition, or alteration. Of the factors that cause color change, the most significant are light UV exposure, shrinkage, and swelling. For example, in reptiles and amphibians, yellows and greens tend to fade quickly, but blacks and browns are more stable. The common green-to-blue change in herps is largely (but not exclusively) due to the leaching of xanthophories by the preservative and the alteration of iridophores by dehydration.

Color in amphibians and reptiles involves pigments (some of which are soluble in preservatives) and light reflection and refraction, which is altered by the shrinkage and swelling of tissues. Color change may begin with post-mortem specimens handling (e.g., the time interval between death and fixation or preservation, freezing the specimen, exposure to sunlight). Once the specimen is preserved, both visible light and ultraviolet radiation will alter colors, as will heat. The choice of preservatives is also a factor?colors will change in different ways if the specimen is in formaldehyde, ethanol, or isopropanol. The colors of the specimen may be affected by dyes from the string, tags, labels, or container, and exposure to oxidation processes, and exposure to metals (particularly copper).

The preservation literature is full of magic recipes to preserve color, none of which work. The only universal among the recipes is that I have never seen an article in which the colors of the live specimen and the post-preservation specimen were compared to the same color standard, which means that all estimations of how well the colors were preserved were biased guesses.

The photo that you included is interesting?that is, indeed, a spectacular retention of colors by a snake that has been in preservative (and probably exposed to light on view?) since 1938. Typically, that level of pattern retention is only visible on specimens kept largely in the dark (thus protected from visible light and UV). The snake has lost its yellow-green-red colors (most of which are alcohol soluble pigments), but otherwise looks good. Are there any notes in your institutional archives or collectors field books that might tell you what technique was used to preserve the snake? There were a lot of different chemicals in use for preservation around that time.

Keeping the true (live) color of specimens preserved in fluid is the Holy Grail of fluid preservation, as can be seen from the numerous publications on the subject suggesting ways to do it. Unfortunately, all of the published magic recipes fail the color standard test. If colors of the specimen are important, it should be photographed before it is preserved with a color standard reference in the photo so the colors in the image can be corrected later.

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 3:04?PM Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu<mailto:cassidyk at wsu.edu>> wrote:
Curious about herp preservation techniques that affect color retention and loss.

We have a garter snake that was once used as a display and/or teaching specimens. It was in a straight glass tube, sealed at the ends with a black tarry substance. About 10 or 15 years ago, I removed the snake from its glass tube because the fluid and glass had become too discolored for it to be a suitable display specimen.  I rinsed it and transferred it to a jar in 70% ethanol, but I am not sure what the fluid in the original tube was. The snake was collected in 1938. For a specimen approaching 90 years old, its color pattern was unusually sharp, but it is also much more flaccid than a typical snake fixed in formalin and preserved in ethanol. (Picture attached.) Any idea what fixative or storage chemicals might have caused better color retention but might have been less good at preservation, leading to more flaccidness?


On the other end of spectrum, we have a number of specimens, most from the mid-20th century (1950s to 1970s) that are now almost entirely bleached of color. These nearly white specimens came to Conner Museum as part of an ?orphaned? collection (from Walla Walla College). Not all of the specimens from Walla Walla are bleached out. I am guessing there was a period when their fixative or storage solution contained or lacked something that caused unusual bleaching. We have no records from the collection about fixative or storage methods. What is the most likely cause of such extreme bleaching? Lack of buffering or chemicals used for buffering?  Storage in denatured ethanol?


Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
School of Biological Sciences
Box 644236
Washington State University
Pullman, WA 99164-4236
509-335-3515

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231107/e13225a8/attachment.html>

From c.e.smith at pgr.reading.ac.uk  Tue Nov  7 07:05:28 2023
From: c.e.smith at pgr.reading.ac.uk (Claire Smith)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 12:05:28 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in
 preserved herps?
In-Reply-To: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <LO2P265MB0911CD095E538A6AC0942747B2A9A@LO2P265MB0911.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear Kelly,

It may be possible that your garter snake was preserved in a 1% solution of propylene phenoxetol at some point in its history. From my current research it appears that propylene phenoxetol is good at preserving melanin, and also retains a degree of softness in specimens in the long term - even after they have been moved into other preservation fluids. We have specimens of a similar age (although not herps) that were preserved in this way which have retained a degree of flexibility.

Best wishes,
Claire

*******
Claire Smith (she/her), AFHEA
PhD Candidate: Colour retention in fluid-preserved museum specimens
Graduate Teaching Assistant, Cole Museum of Zoology (Wednesdays)
c.e.smith at pgr.reading.ac.uk<mailto:c.e.smith at pgr.reading.ac.uk>
claire.smith at reading.ac.uk<mailto:claire.smith at reading.ac.uk>
www.twitter.com/wetconservatrix<http://www.twitter.com/wetconservatrix>

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Cassidy, Kelly Michela
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2023 8:04 PM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in preserved herps?

Curious about herp preservation techniques that affect color retention and loss.

We have a garter snake that was once used as a display and/or teaching specimens. It was in a straight glass tube, sealed at the ends with a black tarry substance. About 10 or 15 years ago, I removed the snake from its glass tube because the fluid and glass had become too discolored for it to be a suitable display specimen.  I rinsed it and transferred it to a jar in 70% ethanol, but I am not sure what the fluid in the original tube was. The snake was collected in 1938. For a specimen approaching 90 years old, its color pattern was unusually sharp, but it is also much more flaccid than a typical snake fixed in formalin and preserved in ethanol. (Picture attached.) Any idea what fixative or storage chemicals might have caused better color retention but might have been less good at preservation, leading to more flaccidness?


On the other end of spectrum, we have a number of specimens, most from the mid-20th century (1950s to 1970s) that are now almost entirely bleached of color. These nearly white specimens came to Conner Museum as part of an "orphaned" collection (from Walla Walla College). Not all of the specimens from Walla Walla are bleached out. I am guessing there was a period when their fixative or storage solution contained or lacked something that caused unusual bleaching. We have no records from the collection about fixative or storage methods. What is the most likely cause of such extreme bleaching? Lack of buffering or chemicals used for buffering?  Storage in denatured ethanol?


Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
School of Biological Sciences
Box 644236
Washington State University
Pullman, WA 99164-4236
509-335-3515

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231107/8a95f9ff/attachment.html>

From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Tue Nov  7 09:34:22 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 15:34:22 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in
 preserved herps?
In-Reply-To: <AS5PR07MB100051D17A06742A3A05A0A7884A9A@AS5PR07MB10005.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY5PR01MB6003A03AFA3A5D1D46ACDB0CCCAAA@BY5PR01MB6003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CAF7GCDZEx5Eqr5UGFKbDgh8OJVcSy5KX9Gaj4SttXA8OvsMB8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <AS5PR07MB100051D17A06742A3A05A0A7884A9A@AS5PR07MB10005.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <b517be6f-2d02-4ed3-a2a2-269703f2a0d3@leibniz-lib.de>

.. and often herpetology specimens are only injected, but not tossed into fixatives or (pseudo)fixatives; might be another key factor to consider in this specific case ....


Am 07.11.2023 um 12:28 schrieb a.j.van_dam at lumc.nl<mailto:a.j.van_dam at lumc.nl>:
Dear Kelly,

The most stable organic pigments (melanins) are found in keratin. This is well demonstrated by the direct detection of melanin in dinosaur fossils. These pigments in keratin-rich tissue like (snake) skin and hairs can sustain quite a long time when preserved in ethanol. However, the other tissues of the specimen will lose their colour much faster and become pale/whitish in appearance.

Besides its flammability and high vapor pressure, another disadvantage of ethanol is that it dissolves lipids and extracts fat soluble organic piments (like carotenoids), leading to loss of tissue colour and yellowing of the fluid. Using glycerol 65% as an alternative solves these two problems. Glycerol has extreme low vapor pressure and does not dissolve lipids due to its high polarity.

With regard to the observed flaccidness, it might be possible that in this case fixation was only performed with ethanol (pseudo) fixation.

Kind regards,

Dries

Andries J. van Dam<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/preview?vpa=pub&locale=en_US> | curator-conservator

Anatomical Museum<https://www.lumc.nl/onderwijs/over-ons/anatomisch-museum/?setlanguage=English&setcountry=en> | Directorate of education | Leiden University Medical Center | Building 3 (V3-32)
P.O.Box 9600 | 2300 RC Leiden | Netherlands
Visiting address: Hippocratespad 21 | Tel: +31 (0)71 52 68356 | E-mail: A.J.van_Dam at lumc.nl<mailto:A.J.van_Dam at lumc.nl>

Scientific associate | Natural History Museum London





From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of John E Simmons
Sent: maandag 6 november 2023 22:41
To: Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu><mailto:cassidyk at wsu.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Speculation on color retention and color loss in preserved herps?

Kelly,
Color change in preserved specimens is a complex problem, as I discussed at some length in Fluid Preservation: A Comprehensive Reference (2014) along with a review the available literature on the subject. In short, changes of color may result from chemical or physical alterations of the tissues (usually both) and may involve color loss, acquisition, or alteration. Of the factors that cause color change, the most significant are light UV exposure, shrinkage, and swelling. For example, in reptiles and amphibians, yellows and greens tend to fade quickly, but blacks and browns are more stable. The common green-to-blue change in herps is largely (but not exclusively) due to the leaching of xanthophories by the preservative and the alteration of iridophores by dehydration.

Color in amphibians and reptiles involves pigments (some of which are soluble in preservatives) and light reflection and refraction, which is altered by the shrinkage and swelling of tissues. Color change may begin with post-mortem specimens handling (e.g., the time interval between death and fixation or preservation, freezing the specimen, exposure to sunlight). Once the specimen is preserved, both visible light and ultraviolet radiation will alter colors, as will heat. The choice of preservatives is also a factor?colors will change in different ways if the specimen is in formaldehyde, ethanol, or isopropanol. The colors of the specimen may be affected by dyes from the string, tags, labels, or container, and exposure to oxidation processes, and exposure to metals (particularly copper).

The preservation literature is full of magic recipes to preserve color, none of which work. The only universal among the recipes is that I have never seen an article in which the colors of the live specimen and the post-preservation specimen were compared to the same color standard, which means that all estimations of how well the colors were preserved were biased guesses.

The photo that you included is interesting?that is, indeed, a spectacular retention of colors by a snake that has been in preservative (and probably exposed to light on view?) since 1938. Typically, that level of pattern retention is only visible on specimens kept largely in the dark (thus protected from visible light and UV). The snake has lost its yellow-green-red colors (most of which are alcohol soluble pigments), but otherwise looks good. Are there any notes in your institutional archives or collectors field books that might tell you what technique was used to preserve the snake? There were a lot of different chemicals in use for preservation around that time.

Keeping the true (live) color of specimens preserved in fluid is the Holy Grail of fluid preservation, as can be seen from the numerous publications on the subject suggesting ways to do it. Unfortunately, all of the published magic recipes fail the color standard test. If colors of the specimen are important, it should be photographed before it is preserved with a color standard reference in the photo so the colors in the image can be corrected later.

--John

John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
and
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima


On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 3:04?PM Cassidy, Kelly Michela <cassidyk at wsu.edu<mailto:cassidyk at wsu.edu>> wrote:
Curious about herp preservation techniques that affect color retention and loss.

We have a garter snake that was once used as a display and/or teaching specimens. It was in a straight glass tube, sealed at the ends with a black tarry substance. About 10 or 15 years ago, I removed the snake from its glass tube because the fluid and glass had become too discolored for it to be a suitable display specimen.  I rinsed it and transferred it to a jar in 70% ethanol, but I am not sure what the fluid in the original tube was. The snake was collected in 1938. For a specimen approaching 90 years old, its color pattern was unusually sharp, but it is also much more flaccid than a typical snake fixed in formalin and preserved in ethanol. (Picture attached.) Any idea what fixative or storage chemicals might have caused better color retention but might have been less good at preservation, leading to more flaccidness?


On the other end of spectrum, we have a number of specimens, most from the mid-20th century (1950s to 1970s) that are now almost entirely bleached of color. These nearly white specimens came to Conner Museum as part of an ?orphaned? collection (from Walla Walla College). Not all of the specimens from Walla Walla are bleached out. I am guessing there was a period when their fixative or storage solution contained or lacked something that caused unusual bleaching. We have no records from the collection about fixative or storage methods. What is the most likely cause of such extreme bleaching? Lack of buffering or chemicals used for buffering?  Storage in denatured ethanol?


Dr. Kelly M. Cassidy, Curator, Conner Museum
School of Biological Sciences
Box 644236
Washington State University
Pullman, WA 99164-4236
509-335-3515

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231107/35d790b6/attachment.html>

From jriley at royalbcmuseum.bc.ca  Tue Nov  7 11:21:53 2023
From: jriley at royalbcmuseum.bc.ca (Riley, Jody RBCM:EX)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 16:21:53 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Long term storage of tissue samples in silica gel
Message-ID: <YQBP288MB0035FF91D4E636F56E38DF4E86A9A@YQBP288MB0035.CANP288.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hello all,

Does anyone know about long term storage of animal tissue in silica gel, and/or a process to transfer specimens from silica gel storage to 95% ethanol for extended storage in -80 freezers?  Very specifically we have some bat tissue (ears) which have been stored in silica gel in cryovials, but in a chest freezer, for 8 years. We wish to transfer to our -80 freezers for extended storage where we currently store our specimens in 95% ethanol in cryovials.  We cannot find any literature that indicates silica is suitable for this type of extended storage. Thanks for your help!

Jody Riley
Collections Manager, Birds and Mammals | Archives, Collections & Knowledge
ROYAL BC MUSEUM
Traditional Territory of the Lekwungen (Songhees and Xwsepsum Nations)
675 Belleville Street, Victoria, BC Canada V8W 9W2
royalbcmuseum.bc.ca<https://royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231107/768af454/attachment.html>

From liathappleton at gmail.com  Tue Nov  7 13:13:32 2023
From: liathappleton at gmail.com (Liath Appleton)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 12:13:32 -0600
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Save the Date!
Message-ID: <CAEf=rq8RwzTROuDQqt6=ub1f=GxpZaR-WHvZnSsjOxKGKv3sRg@mail.gmail.com>

SPNHC & TDWG Joint Conference (Hybrid)
?Enhancing Local Capacity, Elevating Global Standards.?
Okinawa Convention Center
2-6 September 2024

Watch this space for full details as they become available
https://spnhc.org/events/event/spnhc-tdwg-2024/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231107/108c10d0/attachment.html>

From EHaston at rbge.org.uk  Thu Nov  9 02:58:55 2023
From: EHaston at rbge.org.uk (Elspeth Haston)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2023 07:58:55 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Natural History Collections Imaging Survey - Report
 published
Message-ID: <CWXP265MB3141F154F5819A4E52523589E6AFA@CWXP265MB3141.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear all

We wanted to let you know that the results of an international survey on imaging practices for the digitisation of natural history specimens have now been published in a report available on Zenodo.

Marcer, A, Santos, J, Mast, AR, Nelson, G, Ellwood, L & Haston, E. (2023). Natural History Collections Imaging Survey Report. Current imaging practices across institutions worldwide. https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.7837354

The survey was designed and constructed jointly by members of the EU-funded COST Action, MOBILISE, and the
US-funded iDigBio programme, and distributed globally to gather information from as many institutions and individuals as possible. There were a total of 702 respondents covering all the main preparation types.

The aim of this survey was to find out how the existing guidelines and recommendations for imaging natural history collections have been adopted and used by the community and what are the obstacles that hinder their use. The survey covered all types of curated natural history specimens held in institutions holding natural history collections across the world.

We would like to thanks all those individuals who took the time to respond to the survey.

Best regards

Elspeth

Dr Elspeth M Haston
Deputy Herbarium Curator
Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh<https://rbge.org.uk/>
20a Inverleith Row, Edinburgh  EH3 5LR, Scotland, United Kingdom
@emhaston | Google Scholar<https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=T3LgDsoAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao> | https://orcid.org/0000-0001-9144-2848

Search our Herbarium collections online at http://data.rbge.org.uk/herb





The Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh<https://www.rbge.org.uk/> is a charity registered in Scotland (No SC007983) | Support Us<https://www.rbge.org.uk/support-us>

This notice applies to this email and to any other email subsequently sent by anyone at RBGE and appearing in the same chain of email correspondence. References below to "this email" should be read accordingly. This e-mail and its attachments (if any) are confidential, may be protected by copyright and may be privileged. If you receive this e-mail in error, notify us immediately by reply e-mail, delete it and do not use, disclose or copy it. Unless we expressly say otherwise in this e-mail, this e-mail does not create, form part of, or vary, any contractual or unilateral obligation. No liability is accepted for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Where this e-mail is unrelated to the business of RBGE, the opinions expressed within this e-mail are the opinions of the sender and do not necessarily constitute those of RBGE. RBGE emails are filtered and monitored.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231109/745f253b/attachment.html>

From prc44 at drexel.edu  Thu Nov  9 15:41:46 2023
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2023 20:41:46 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: Exciting opportunity to work with USDA,
 at Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR02MB3732269046A4F91E96EC3764A1AFA@BL0PR02MB3732.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BL0PR02MB3732269046A4F91E96EC3764A1AFA@BL0PR02MB3732.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB522065A20D90DF49754F2639C3AFA@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>



Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

From: molluscalist-request at listserv.dfn.de <molluscalist-request at listserv.dfn.de> On Behalf Of Pearce, Timothy
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 3:10 PM
To: CONCH-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU; molluscalist at listserv.dfn.de
Cc: Borrero, Francisco J - APHIS <francisco.j.borrero at usda.gov>
Subject: Exciting opportunity to work with USDA, at Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia


External.
Posted on behalf of Francisco Borrero MRP-APHIS francisco.j.borrero at usda.gov<mailto:francisco.j.borrero at usda.gov>

An ad for 4 positions (one at Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia) was posted today, Nov. 9, and will remain open until November 16th (very short window).
This is the direct link to the actual position(s)-
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/759899800

   Four technicians are being sought, one to work in the USDA Malacology Lab (mollusks) at the Academy (Philadelphia). Even though a Biological Sciences degree is required, people with degrees in somewhat compatible careers can be considered.
   The open window for applications is very tight: started today (Nov. 9), closing Nov. 16th. Date for starting job is negotiable.
   Interested candidates must start an account with USAJOBS.gov<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fUSAJOBS.gov&c=E,1,kpy5ZY9HDkggKLtrWZ1WBiFPm3yHZWoNEwl8r6_L_WspAh1hJI4bxKUHFDFml5DEvVXzOFpT0eIm1Wy2kcBwRp9EN92omoj33GcB8nFG5FG2vQU,&typo=1&ancr_add=1> as soon as possible and put their papers together to comply with the short window of opportunity.
   If you have questions, please contact Francisco Borrero (francisco.j.borrero at usda.gov<mailto:francisco.j.borrero at usda.gov>) who can answer basic questions and can make suggestions to tailor a competitive application.



The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231109/704ea498/attachment.html>

From bethanypalumbo at gmail.com  Fri Nov 10 07:10:26 2023
From: bethanypalumbo at gmail.com (Bethany Palumbo)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 13:10:26 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Effects of fluid preserved specimens on passive
 environmental systems
Message-ID: <CAPVvR4S6OgR8xAtC3OeTEOGc048Cc+SJRzjxwGSxbo0SNo=Ywg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I would like to know if anyone has experienced adverse effects on passive
environmental systems  from fluid preserved specimens displayed in 70%
ethanol. Imagine the scenario that a display case has both fluid-preserved
specimens in glass jars and taxidermy in the same case. I would want to add
silica gel in the showcase to maintain a stable humidity for the taxidermy,
but would the (30%) water content in the jars affect this? Obviously the
quality of the sealant on the jar affects any evaporation rate, but how
sealed is sealed enough? Does anyone know of any research in this specific
issue?

Advice and experiences would be greatly appreciated!

-- 
Bethany Palumbo, ACR
Head of Conservation Unit

Statens Naturhistoriske Museum
Universitetsparken 15, 2100 K?benhavn



Twitter | @bethany_bug
Instagram | @palumbo_conservation
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231110/475836b0/attachment.html>

From gregory.watkins-colwell at yale.edu  Fri Nov 10 08:09:19 2023
From: gregory.watkins-colwell at yale.edu (Watkins-Colwell, Gregory)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 13:09:19 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Effects of fluid preserved specimens on passive
 environmental systems
In-Reply-To: <CAPVvR4S6OgR8xAtC3OeTEOGc048Cc+SJRzjxwGSxbo0SNo=Ywg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPVvR4S6OgR8xAtC3OeTEOGc048Cc+SJRzjxwGSxbo0SNo=Ywg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN4PR0801MB7981088F41D9A5B8D36709B1CEAEA@SN4PR0801MB7981.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

I?m not a conservator, but since the ethanol would evaporate before the water, the risk of high humidity seems less than the fear of fire. And even that, you?d probably need to fill the entire display case with ETOH vapor, which may be far more than could come from the jar(s) on display, for that to be possible.  And I?d think that empty jars would be noticed long before things went ?boom?.

On the other hand, you might worry that the reduced humidity would interfere with the ability of the closure on the jar to seal properly. But that can be worked around, if it?s an issue.  A little aquarium sealant could help resolve that.

Just my pre-coffee thoughts.

Greg


****************
Gregory J. Watkins-Colwell
Sr. Collection Manager, Herpetology and Ichthyology
Division of Vertebrate Zoology
https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7789-9806
YALE PEABODY MUSEUM
Main Office: 203-432-3791;  West Campus: 203-737-7568; Fax 203-432-9277

Package shipping address:
Greg Watkins-Colwell
Division of Vertebrate Zoology
YALE PEABODY MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY
170?210 Whitney Avenue
New Haven, CT 06511 USA
203-432-3791
******************

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Bethany Palumbo
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 7:10 AM
To: SPNHC <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>; NATSCA at jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Effects of fluid preserved specimens on passive environmental systems

Hi all,

I would like to know if anyone has experienced adverse effects on passive environmental systems  from fluid preserved specimens displayed in 70% ethanol. Imagine the scenario that a display case has both fluid-preserved specimens in glass jars and taxidermy in the same case. I would want to add silica gel in the showcase to maintain a stable humidity for the taxidermy, but would the (30%) water content in the jars affect this? Obviously the quality of the sealant on the jar affects any evaporation rate, but how sealed is sealed enough? Does anyone know of any research in this specific issue?

Advice and experiences would be greatly appreciated!

--
Bethany Palumbo, ACR
Head of Conservation Unit

Statens Naturhistoriske Museum
Universitetsparken 15, 2100 K?benhavn

[https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4x27Q3WyXJtc0hVDLhuSGlVOlSeUzp0BceeqFilFI-2Ma0XoUVX8vhSbEf_NJXYsgqjR9S0YoI]

Twitter | @bethany_bug
Instagram | @palumbo_conservation

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231110/1a8a2245/attachment.html>

From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Fri Nov 10 09:36:49 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 15:36:49 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Effects of fluid preserved specimens on passive
 environmental systems
In-Reply-To: <SN4PR0801MB7981088F41D9A5B8D36709B1CEAEA@SN4PR0801MB7981.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAPVvR4S6OgR8xAtC3OeTEOGc048Cc+SJRzjxwGSxbo0SNo=Ywg@mail.gmail.com>
 <SN4PR0801MB7981088F41D9A5B8D36709B1CEAEA@SN4PR0801MB7981.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5fb3577f-bacf-4296-ad42-fc4e4c913b82@leibniz-lib.de>

Hi Bethany,

the quality of the seal depends a bit on the (fluctuations of the) temperature; also the evaporation pressure inside the jar would be linked to fluctuating temperatures. If you use denatured ethanol, and if this included MEK (in Europe), than MEK raises the evaporation pressure. Might be worth to consider recording of any unwanted microclimates that may build up inside the case.

Hopefully useful - With best wishes
Dirk


Am 10.11.2023 um 14:09 schrieb Watkins-Colwell, Gregory:
I?m not a conservator, but since the ethanol would evaporate before the water, the risk of high humidity seems less than the fear of fire. And even that, you?d probably need to fill the entire display case with ETOH vapor, which may be far more than could come from the jar(s) on display, for that to be possible.  And I?d think that empty jars would be noticed long before things went ?boom?.

On the other hand, you might worry that the reduced humidity would interfere with the ability of the closure on the jar to seal properly. But that can be worked around, if it?s an issue.  A little aquarium sealant could help resolve that.

Just my pre-coffee thoughts.

Greg


****************
Gregory J. Watkins-Colwell
Sr. Collection Manager, Herpetology and Ichthyology
Division of Vertebrate Zoology
https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7789-9806
YALE PEABODY MUSEUM
Main Office: 203-432-3791;  West Campus: 203-737-7568; Fax 203-432-9277

Package shipping address:
Greg Watkins-Colwell
Division of Vertebrate Zoology
YALE PEABODY MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY
170?210 Whitney Avenue
New Haven, CT 06511 USA
203-432-3791
******************

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Bethany Palumbo
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 7:10 AM
To: SPNHC <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>; NATSCA at jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:NATSCA at jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Effects of fluid preserved specimens on passive environmental systems

Hi all,

I would like to know if anyone has experienced adverse effects on passive environmental systems  from fluid preserved specimens displayed in 70% ethanol. Imagine the scenario that a display case has both fluid-preserved specimens in glass jars and taxidermy in the same case. I would want to add silica gel in the showcase to maintain a stable humidity for the taxidermy, but would the (30%) water content in the jars affect this? Obviously the quality of the sealant on the jar affects any evaporation rate, but how sealed is sealed enough? Does anyone know of any research in this specific issue?

Advice and experiences would be greatly appreciated!

--
Bethany Palumbo, ACR
Head of Conservation Unit

Statens Naturhistoriske Museum
Universitetsparken 15, 2100 K?benhavn

[https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4x27Q3WyXJtc0hVDLhuSGlVOlSeUzp0BceeqFilFI-2Ma0XoUVX8vhSbEf_NJXYsgqjR9S0YoI]

Twitter | @bethany_bug
Instagram | @palumbo_conservation




_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231110/fbacfe0a/attachment.html>

From prc44 at drexel.edu  Fri Nov 10 10:50:14 2023
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 15:50:14 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Effects of fluid preserved specimens on passive
 environmental systems
In-Reply-To: <5fb3577f-bacf-4296-ad42-fc4e4c913b82@leibniz-lib.de>
References: <CAPVvR4S6OgR8xAtC3OeTEOGc048Cc+SJRzjxwGSxbo0SNo=Ywg@mail.gmail.com>
 <SN4PR0801MB7981088F41D9A5B8D36709B1CEAEA@SN4PR0801MB7981.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
 <5fb3577f-bacf-4296-ad42-fc4e4c913b82@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB522039221C1D84942BCEE6AAC3AEA@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

We have had fluid-preserved specimens on display in our department for over 20 years. They are in older jars of various sizes (mostly over 1 gallon/3.8 L) that have tapered ground-glass stoppers. I first cleaned the jars and stoppers with Alconox (Trisodium phosphate), then filled them with the specimens and 80% EtoH and applied Dow vacuum grease to the sealing faces (ground parts) of the stoppers and jars. Temperature in that area of the building varies from about 58-80 degrees F annually, and humidity from 65% to about 10% (yes! Philadelphia winters are VERY dry). Leakage so far has been zero.


Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

________________________________

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 9:36 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Effects of fluid preserved specimens on passive environmental systems


External.

Hi Bethany,

the quality of the seal depends a bit on the (fluctuations of the) temperature; also the evaporation pressure inside the jar would be linked to fluctuating temperatures. If you use denatured ethanol, and if this included MEK (in Europe), than MEK raises the evaporation pressure. Might be worth to consider recording of any unwanted microclimates that may build up inside the case.

Hopefully useful - With best wishes
Dirk


Am 10.11.2023 um 14:09 schrieb Watkins-Colwell, Gregory:

I?m not a conservator, but since the ethanol would evaporate before the water, the risk of high humidity seems less than the fear of fire. And even that, you?d probably need to fill the entire display case with ETOH vapor, which may be far more than could come from the jar(s) on display, for that to be possible.  And I?d think that empty jars would be noticed long before things went ?boom?.



On the other hand, you might worry that the reduced humidity would interfere with the ability of the closure on the jar to seal properly. But that can be worked around, if it?s an issue.  A little aquarium sealant could help resolve that.



Just my pre-coffee thoughts.

Greg





****************

Gregory J. Watkins-Colwell

Sr. Collection Manager, Herpetology and Ichthyology

Division of Vertebrate Zoology

https://orcid.org/0000-0002-7789-9806

YALE PEABODY MUSEUM

Main Office: 203-432-3791;  West Campus: 203-737-7568; Fax 203-432-9277



Package shipping address:

Greg Watkins-Colwell

Division of Vertebrate Zoology

YALE PEABODY MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY

170?210 Whitney Avenue
New Haven, CT 06511 USA

203-432-3791

******************



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Bethany Palumbo
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 7:10 AM
To: SPNHC <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>; NATSCA at jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:NATSCA at jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Effects of fluid preserved specimens on passive environmental systems



Hi all,



I would like to know if anyone has experienced adverse effects on passive environmental systems  from fluid preserved specimens displayed in 70% ethanol. Imagine the scenario that a display case has both fluid-preserved specimens in glass jars and taxidermy in the same case. I would want to add silica gel in the showcase to maintain a stable humidity for the taxidermy, but would the (30%) water content in the jars affect this? Obviously the quality of the sealant on the jar affects any evaporation rate, but how sealed is sealed enough? Does anyone know of any research in this specific issue?



Advice and experiences would be greatly appreciated!



--

Bethany Palumbo, ACR

Head of Conservation Unit



Statens Naturhistoriske Museum

Universitetsparken 15, 2100 K?benhavn



[https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4x27Q3WyXJtc0hVDLhuSGlVOlSeUzp0BceeqFilFI-2Ma0XoUVX8vhSbEf_NJXYsgqjR9S0YoI]



Twitter | @bethany_bug

Instagram | @palumbo_conservation





_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--

****



Dirk Neumann

Collection Manager, Hamburg



Postal address:

Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis

of Biodiversity Change

Dirk Neumann

Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3

20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628

d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>

www.leibniz-lib.de



--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst



--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231110/7fcab2c7/attachment.html>

From cearly at smm.org  Tue Nov 14 10:15:41 2023
From: cearly at smm.org (Catherine Early (she/her))
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:15:41 -0600
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] childhood collecting and taxonomy
In-Reply-To: <b49ed833-6410-987b-d28f-f34565de7842@ptd.net>
References: <CAHKLds9YVH5=kk+ti2vOT25FUpXiNHvw21AS7n3BynagQ_SAtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <b49ed833-6410-987b-d28f-f34565de7842@ptd.net>
Message-ID: <CAHKLds8dCqd9JFf0sgZQcT4ytHyiRutP9ZD1X_Vu5usrawS5rw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Thank you for the helpful discussion, and for your patience while I
finished the grant proposal that sparked this question. I didn't receive
any peer-reviewed citations on this topic, which points to an idea for
another potential project, and the books and stories that were shared lend
support to future exploration of the idea being merited. It's also good to
hear about efforts being made in other states to change the laws so they
still protect species while also encouraging future naturalists. Even if
the laws are rarely enforced against people who aren't poaching, I would
rather change the law to be more reasonable in that regard than to leave
enforcement up to individuals, who all carry their own biases and whose
biases influence the degree of enforcement. This continues to be a
supportive community and useful resource that I deeply appreciate!

Best,
Catherine


Catherine M. Early, PhD

*she/her/hers*

Barbara Brown Chair of Ornithology

cearly at smm.org

https://catherineearly.wixsite.com/home




We envision a world where everyone has the power to use science to make
lives better,
and we are committed to using STEM as a tool to advocate for justice and
equity.


On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 1:42?PM Susan Gallagher <sugal at ptd.net> wrote:

> Dr. Early,
>
> This is an interesting topic! Please share any replies or info received
> off-list.
>
> Not a taxonomist here, but a naturalist and environmental educator.
> Anecdotally--my interest in the natural world was instilled by a father
> with a collecting spirit. He inspired and encouraged my childhood
> collections of every kind of natural history item you can imagine.
>
> As an adult now working with kids, it irks me to no end when I have to
> tell them they're technically not allowed to take home a feather, or even a
> leaf or rock found in a state park. It does give a good opportunity to talk
> about "leave no trace" ethics and all that, but I remember how precious a
> small piece of quartz or a dead dragonfly was to me when I was young, and
> how those things instilled such curiosity.
>
> Having something to touch, even if I can't or don't collect it, still
> feels very important to me. So, somewhat tangential to your question,
> attached is a paper I found that suggests "biofacts", aka touchable things,
> can be an important tool for educators in encouraging a conservation
> mindset--one reason why I'm a big fan of the standard nature center "touch
> table".
>
> Susan
>
> --
> ***********************************************
> Susan Gallagher, Chief Naturalist
> Carbon County Environmental Education Center
> 151 East White Bear Drive
> Summit Hill, PA  18250
> sugal at ptd.netwww.carboneec.org
>
>
> On 10/25/2023 12:38 PM, Catherine Early (she/her) wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've heard at least one taxonomist say that privately collecting organisms
> as a child was an important entree to becoming a taxonomist as an adult,
> and that hyper-restrictive collecting laws may stymy development of future
> taxonomists. As an example of a hyper-restrictive collecting law, in the
> state of Minnesota, individuals over the age of 16 cannot collect shells of
> freshwater mussels that are already dead unless they possess a fishing
> license. This is a long shot, but is there any museum education literature
> to support this connection between collecting as a child and becoming a
> taxonomist as an adult? Thanks!
>
> Best,
> Catherine
>
>
> Catherine M. Early, PhD
>
> *she/her/hers*
>
> Barbara Brown Chair of Ornithology
>
> cearly at smm.org
>
> https://catherineearly.wixsite.com/home
>
>
>
>
> We envision a world where everyone has the power to use science to make
> lives better,
> and we are committed to using STEM as a tool to advocate for justice and
> equity.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing listNhcoll-l at mailman.yale.eduhttps://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231114/46a0ff01/attachment.html>

From mangel at calacademy.org  Fri Nov 10 19:14:24 2023
From: mangel at calacademy.org (Marie Angel)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 16:14:24 -0800
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Open Position: Geology Curatorial Assistant-II at
 California Academy of Sciences
Message-ID: <CADKy-1FmN_PAw4PD6sMcpgYHvk8Ev_fpr9HaDomhYSAmN82TMg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

The California Academy of Sciences Geology collection is seeking a
half-time Curatorial Assistant-II. This is a 20 hour a week position, with
partial benefits. The salary range is $29-$32/hour. Please see below, and
apply here:
https://us232.dayforcehcm.com/CandidatePortal/en-US/cas/Posting/View/526

*About the Opportunity:*

Reporting to the Collections Manager of Geology, the Curatorial
Assistant-II performs various duties related to specimen preparation and
housing as well as processing and shipping specimens being sent to other
institutions. The job will also involve a considerable amount of work in
the areas of data entry, and project-related curatorial tasks. The
Curatorial Assistant II will also participate in ongoing operations of the
department. The responsibilities for this level will include some or if not
all of the duties noted below.



*Organizational Culture*

This position is based in San Francisco, California. Please do not apply if
you are not able to work onsite. This position is part of a bargaining unit
represented by the Service Employees International Union Local 1021.
Candidates are required to have up-to-date COVID-19 vaccination as a
condition of employment, absent qualifying exemptions in accordance with
applicable laws. Individuals receiving a conditional offer of employment
from the California Academy of Sciences will be provided the full text of
the vaccination policy. The California Academy of Sciences is committed to
providing a safe and healthy workplace, to protect its employees,
volunteers and guests.

*About the Geology Team:*
The Geological Collections of the California Academy of Sciences contain
over 8 million specimens, including one of the best collections of Pacific
Basin invertebrates of the Mesozoic and Cenozoic ages and fossil fish,
foraminifera, and plants from California and the western U.S. The mineral
collection includes a meteorite and gemstone collection and is worldwide in
scope. Also housed in the department is the world?s third-largest
collection of both fossil and recent diatoms.  These collections are
actively used by researchers from around the world. The collections staff
processes scores of loan requests each year, as well as host dozens of
visiting researchers.



*Key Responsibilities:*

   - Performs routine curatorial duties such as specimen preparation and
   integrating newly acquired specimens/objects
   - Processes specimens for shipment, including properly wrapping
   specimens, and preparing shipping forms/labels
   - Performs database entry related to specimens, label production, and
   data capture
   - Manages project-oriented specimen processing
   - May involve library work to clarify nomenclatural issues
   - May train and work with departmental volunteers and students
   - May assist visitors to the department
   - May play a support role in Academy Health and Safety
   - May give public demonstrations, departmental tours, and answer
   inquiries
   - Follow all Academy safety regulations
   - Perform other job-related duties as assigned

*Qualifications: *A successful candidate will have the following

*Experience and Education:*

   - Bachelor?s degree in Geology, Biology, or a closely related field
   - General knowledge of literature and curatorial procedures in Geology
   or Paleontology
   - A minimum of 2 years experience with museum collections
   - Or an equivalent combination of education and experience

*Skills and Abilities:*

   - Good organizational and time management skills
   - Specific knowledge of Geological or Paleontological collections,
   nomenclature, and taxonomy desirable
   - Ability to understand and accurately follow detailed instructions
   - Ability to responsibly handle delicate or irreplaceable specimens
   - Ability to type accurately and do computer data entry
   - Ability to work independently and collaboratively
   - Demonstrated commitment to equity and inclusion
   - Ability to perform computer data entry - depending on
   departments/projects % time may vary

Best,

Marie Angel
Curatorial Assistant, Geology

Pronouns: she/her/hers

California Academy of Sciences

mangel at calacademy.org

55 Music Concourse Drive
Golden Gate Park
San Francisco, CA 94118
www.calacademy.org

We regenerate the natural world through science, learning, and
collaboration.
Learn more at calacademy.org <http://www.calacademy.org>.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231110/9816d6d4/attachment.html>

From horns076 at umn.edu  Tue Nov 14 16:36:10 2023
From: horns076 at umn.edu (Angela Hornsby)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 15:36:10 -0600
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Job posting: Curatorial Research Associate in Bird &
 Mammal Collections, UMN Bell Museum
Message-ID: <CAEiJ7fjcq1x9HBcLDiYBmbJr1h9AVHzbMy2mfbP_fT-NwRTUdw@mail.gmail.com>

The Bell Museum seeks a full time (in person) research associate to assist
in a newly funded project to create a network across Minnesota that will
help collect and prepare scientific research specimens from salvaged
wildlife. This term position is funded until June 30, 2026, by the
Minnesota Environment and Natural Resources Trust Fund as recommended by
the Legislative-Citizen Commission on Minnesota Resources. The aim is to
take carcasses of Minnesota birds and mammals to collect and analyze data
for research into ecology, evolution, and environmental health. Each
carcass will eventually also become part of the archival record at the Bell
Museum for future research.

This position will be responsible for managing the transfer of specimens
and communication between partner institutions and the Bell Museum;
dissecting and preparing various kinds of research-quality museum specimens
from salvaged material; collating and entering data associated with these
specimens; analyzing data from specimens using summary statistics; and
participating in outreach events to educate the public on our work.

We are looking for individuals to join our team who are inspired by our
mission to ignite curiosity and wonder, explore our connections to nature
and the universe, and create a better future for our evolving world. We
believe that difference is a strength and are looking for candidates that
reflect and respect diversity. We encourage you to apply for the position
even if you do not believe you meet every qualification.

For more information or to apply:


Job ID:   358598

Handshake ID: 8431469 <https://app.joinhandshake.com/emp/jobs/8431469>

Application Deadline: December 10, 2023

Salary: $21.49/hr

Link: https://hr.myu.umn.edu/jobs/ext/358598


Questions about the position can be directed to Kate Sigurdson,
ksigurds at umn.edu.


--
Angela Hornsby, Ph.D.
Zoological Collections Manager (MMNH / JFBM)
Bell Museum
University of Minnesota
https://www.bellmuseum.umn.edu/zoological-collections/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231114/6594ae67/attachment.html>

From vanessa.pitusi at uit.no  Wed Nov 15 02:41:48 2023
From: vanessa.pitusi at uit.no (Vanessa Pitusi)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 07:41:48 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
Message-ID: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi!

I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!

I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.

Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?

Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).

Kind regards,
Vanessa Pitusi

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/d706ef98/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: processed-2BAC45FB-1950-4973-9E2B-AA22795FC33C-0B33A2E4-6E3C-48D0-9792-59E5212231AF.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 720064 bytes
Desc: processed-2BAC45FB-1950-4973-9E2B-AA22795FC33C-0B33A2E4-6E3C-48D0-9792-59E5212231AF.jpeg
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/d706ef98/attachment-0003.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: processed-A6B7692D-829A-4C09-8FF2-259097A05530-8262C334-B71D-4D90-A6BC-98CF4CD00643.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 577626 bytes
Desc: processed-A6B7692D-829A-4C09-8FF2-259097A05530-8262C334-B71D-4D90-A6BC-98CF4CD00643.jpeg
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/d706ef98/attachment-0004.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: processed-1FC8CA1B-FBF6-49C4-B9F2-885B9B3B3002-20AE0178-8A14-4164-B730-3580CFBD2946.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 3045330 bytes
Desc: processed-1FC8CA1B-FBF6-49C4-B9F2-885B9B3B3002-20AE0178-8A14-4164-B730-3580CFBD2946.jpeg
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/d706ef98/attachment-0005.jpeg>

From prc44 at drexel.edu  Wed Nov 15 09:02:39 2023
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 14:02:39 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Hi Vanessa,

Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!


External.
Hi!

I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!

I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.

Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?

Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).

Kind regards,
Vanessa Pitusi

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/25569bd6/attachment.html>

From shoobs.1 at osu.edu  Wed Nov 15 09:12:45 2023
From: shoobs.1 at osu.edu (Shoobs, Nate)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 14:12:45 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.

You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.

The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it?s not about brute strength, it?s more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it?ll generally lift right up.

For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.

-Nate

-
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.edu<http://mbd.osu.edu/>
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ?


Hi Vanessa,



Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.



Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

________________________________

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!



External.

Hi!



I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!



I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.

Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.



Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?



Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).



Kind regards,

Vanessa Pitusi



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/de318ef3/attachment.html>

From HawksC at si.edu  Wed Nov 15 09:41:39 2023
From: HawksC at si.edu (Hawks, Catharine)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 14:41:39 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.

Cathy

Catharine Hawks
Museum Conservator
NMNH Smithsonian Institution

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Shoobs, Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

External Email - Exercise Caution
Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.

You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.

The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it's not about brute strength, it's more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it'll generally lift right up.

For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.

-Nate

-
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.edu<http://mbd.osu.edu/>
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no<mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack -

Hi Vanessa,



Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.



Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

________________________________

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!



External.

Hi!



I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!



I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.

Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.



Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?



Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).



Kind regards,

Vanessa Pitusi



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/17f93b60/attachment.html>

From HawksC at si.edu  Wed Nov 15 09:41:48 2023
From: HawksC at si.edu (Hawks, Catharine)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 14:41:48 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <CH3PR12MB8187216A195442103F8AB9E5BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.

Cathy

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Shoobs, Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

External Email - Exercise Caution
Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.

You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.

The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it's not about brute strength, it's more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it'll generally lift right up.

For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.

-Nate

-
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.edu<http://mbd.osu.edu/>
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no<mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack -

Hi Vanessa,



Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.



Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

________________________________

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!



External.

Hi!



I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!



I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.

Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.



Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?



Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).



Kind regards,

Vanessa Pitusi



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/937825bd/attachment.html>

From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 15 10:04:15 2023
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 15:04:15 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <CH3PR12MB8187216A195442103F8AB9E5BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187216A195442103F8AB9E5BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <39D0E5E4-F545-4895-A328-E546CDC79E35@btinternet.com>

Hi Cathy,

If the jar is a ground glass with a knob on the lid, bring the top of the jar up to eye level and you?ll often see that the lid tilts at a very slight angle; this helps so that you can exert some pressure against that side of the knob once the jar has been warmed using the warm/.hot water.  Make sure that there is some fluid in the seal before you start as it eases the loosening of the lid.
Xylene can work sometimes but is user-unfriendly!  Linseed oil sometimes works but it takes a long time.

For flat circular lids I use a Tiranti spatula edge on and search around the edge of the seal for a weak spot. Push the spatula into the seal very gradually but do not prise the lid up or you risk cracking or spalling the lid and the tiny glass spalls often travel directly to the eye! I always wear lab specs.

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

www.natural-history-conservation.com


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ICON logo.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 22373 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/c98c703b/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: MA logo.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 19375 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/c98c703b/attachment-0001.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------


> On 15 Nov 2023, at 14:41, Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu> wrote:
> 
> Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.
>  Cathy
>  From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Shoobs, Nate
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
> To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>  External Email - Exercise Caution
> Vanessa,
> Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.
>  You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.
>  The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it?s not about brute strength, it?s more about making the lid move that first little bit.
> Once it budges at all, it?ll generally lift right up.
>  For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them. 
>  -Nate
>  -
> Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
> College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
> Museum of Biological Diversity
> 1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
> 614-688-1342 (Office)
> mbd.osu.eduFrom: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
> To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>  Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ? Hi Vanessa,
>  Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.
>  Paul Callomon
> Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>  From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>  External.
> Hi!
>  I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!
>  I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
> Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.
>  Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?  Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
>  Kind regards,
> Vanessa Pitusi
>  Sent from Outlook for iOS
>  Sent from Outlook for iOS
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Wed Nov 15 10:19:05 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:19:05 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <d7f8dc4b-a6bf-4a34-8620-6e172cbe61d3@leibniz-lib.de>

Hi Vanessa,
St?lzle Oberglas (but they no longer have jars on stock, only occasionally), or you can contact Gassner Glastechnik in Munich (link<https://gassner-glastechnik.de/kontakt/>); they can customise flanged borosilicate jars which you can easily (and hermitically) seal with a good, silicone-free ground-stopper grease like Alsirol (link<https://www.fishersci.de/shop/products/joint-grease-1/10130201>)

Neubert (link<https://www.neubert-glas.de/laborglas/onlineshop/katalog.php?KATfrom=suche&SearchText=pr%E4parat&struc=1_995727484085_1030342896125_1005301727684_1515949502601&kat=1023362157218&PHPSESSID=1effb50f3b77f3e7035b5480d4f6ce4b>) sells DWK Schott jars, but they are usually not too large, and we need a re-seller as museums cannot order directly at DWK (link<https://www.dwk.com/duran-museum-jar-with-ground-glass-plate>)

It might also help if you place the jars into warmer working space rooms for a while, or, as Paul mentioned, put the jar into a shower and try with warm water. Watch any external labels and protect them against soaking.

 Hope this helps
Dirk


Am 15.11.2023 um 15:02 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
Hi Vanessa,

Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!


External.

Hi!

I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!

I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.

Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?

Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).

Kind regards,
Vanessa Pitusi

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/1625fdd4/attachment.html>

From prc44 at drexel.edu  Wed Nov 15 10:34:13 2023
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 15:34:13 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Just to add two points: I'm not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as - apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen - the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!


External.
Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.

Cathy

Catharine Hawks
Museum Conservator
NMNH Smithsonian Institution

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Shoobs, Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

External Email - Exercise Caution
Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.

You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.

The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it's not about brute strength, it's more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it'll generally lift right up.

For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.

-Nate

-
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.edu<http://mbd.osu.edu/>
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no<mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack -

Hi Vanessa,



Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.



Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

________________________________

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!



External.

Hi!



I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!



I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.

Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.



Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?



Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).



Kind regards,

Vanessa Pitusi



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/2defc52c/attachment.html>

From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Wed Nov 15 11:31:26 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:31:26 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <1f1ef4d2-9318-4623-8b61-354bda8cb401@leibniz-lib.de>

... an alternative can be to put the entire cylinder in a (smaller) drum that is filled with warm water to heat of the entire cylinder evenly. But again, mind any external labels when doing this.

Paul's very thoughtful comment on the tension in the (historic) glassware is substantiated, especially because the bottom usually is thicker, but thins towards the walls and often is unevenly blown (might be different for those jars that where blown into moulds).

Also, if the pressure gets too high inside, the stopper can be propelled off the jar; I had once one where I was lucky to get my head out of the way on time, when the neck expanded and released to jammed stopper that went up 2 metres. Luckily I caught it again and it hit not the floor.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 15.11.2023 um 16:34 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
Just to add two points: I?m not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as ? apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen ? the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu><mailto:HawksC at si.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu><mailto:shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!


External.

Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.

Cathy

Catharine Hawks
Museum Conservator
NMNH Smithsonian Institution

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Shoobs, Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

External Email - Exercise Caution
Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.

You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.

The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it?s not about brute strength, it?s more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it?ll generally lift right up.

For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.

-Nate

-
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.edu<http://mbd.osu.edu/>
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no<mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ?

Hi Vanessa,



Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.



Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

________________________________

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!



External.


Hi!



I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!



I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.

Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.



Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?



Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).



Kind regards,

Vanessa Pitusi



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/2b4f1723/attachment.html>

From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 15 11:39:17 2023
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:39:17 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <1f1ef4d2-9318-4623-8b61-354bda8cb401@leibniz-lib.de>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <1f1ef4d2-9318-4623-8b61-354bda8cb401@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <A1742087-6D80-4BC0-A729-14FD4A26E312@btinternet.com>

I forgot to mention that Dixon glass (UK) also supply both the ground-glass stoppered jars and the flange jars with the flat circular lids.

Interesting to hear of Dirk?s slight misadventure, rather dramatic way to get the lid off!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

www.natural-history-conservation.com


> On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:31, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:
> 
> ... an alternative can be to put the entire cylinder in a (smaller) drum that is filled with warm water to heat of the entire cylinder evenly. But again, mind any external labels when doing this.
> 
> Paul's very thoughtful comment on the tension in the (historic) glassware is substantiated, especially because the bottom usually is thicker, but thins towards the walls and often is unevenly blown (might be different for those jars that where blown into moulds).
> 
> Also, if the pressure gets too high inside, the stopper can be propelled off the jar; I had once one where I was lucky to get my head out of the way on time, when the neck expanded and released to jammed stopper that went up 2 metres. Luckily I caught it again and it hit not the floor.
> 
> With best wishes
> Dirk  
> 
> 
> Am 15.11.2023 um 16:34 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
>> Just to add two points: I?m not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as ? apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen ? the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
>> Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.
>>  Paul Callomon
>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>>  From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu> 
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
>> To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  External.
>> Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.
>>  Cathy
>>  Catharine Hawks
>> Museum Conservator
>> NMNH Smithsonian Institution
>>  From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Shoobs, Nate
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
>> To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  External Email - Exercise Caution
>> Vanessa,
>> Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.
>>  You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.
>>  The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it?s not about brute strength, it?s more about making the lid move that first little bit.
>> Once it budges at all, it?ll generally lift right up.
>>  For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them. 
>>  -Nate
>>  -
>> Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
>> College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
>> Museum of Biological Diversity
>> 1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
>> 614-688-1342 (Office)
>> mbd.osu.eduFrom: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
>> To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ?
>> Hi Vanessa,
>>  Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.
>>  Paul Callomon
>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>>  From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
>> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  External.
>> Hi!
>>  I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!
>>  I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
>> Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.
>>  Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?  Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
>>  Kind regards,
>> Vanessa Pitusi
>>  Sent from Outlook for iOS
>>  Sent from Outlook for iOS
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> ****
>  Dirk Neumann
> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>  Postal address:
> Museum of Nature Hamburg
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
> of Biodiversity Change
> Dirk Neumann
> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
> 20146 Hamburg
> +49 40 238 317 ? 628
> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de
> www.leibniz-lib.de
>  -- 
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
> 
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>  
> -- 
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
> 
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Wed Nov 15 11:42:17 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:42:17 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <A1742087-6D80-4BC0-A729-14FD4A26E312@btinternet.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <1f1ef4d2-9318-4623-8b61-354bda8cb401@leibniz-lib.de>
 <A1742087-6D80-4BC0-A729-14FD4A26E312@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7f2c18bd-7d9a-480a-a7a6-d99f077c2eea@leibniz-lib.de>

... nobody should say our job would be boring ...


Am 15.11.2023 um 17:39 schrieb Simon Moore:

I forgot to mention that Dixon glass (UK) also supply both the ground-glass stoppered jars and the flange jars with the flat circular lids.

Interesting to hear of Dirk?s slight misadventure, rather dramatic way to get the lid off!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>




On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:31, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de><mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:

... an alternative can be to put the entire cylinder in a (smaller) drum that is filled with warm water to heat of the entire cylinder evenly. But again, mind any external labels when doing this.

Paul's very thoughtful comment on the tension in the (historic) glassware is substantiated, especially because the bottom usually is thicker, but thins towards the walls and often is unevenly blown (might be different for those jars that where blown into moulds).

Also, if the pressure gets too high inside, the stopper can be propelled off the jar; I had once one where I was lucky to get my head out of the way on time, when the neck expanded and released to jammed stopper that went up 2 metres. Luckily I caught it again and it hit not the floor.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 15.11.2023 um 16:34 schrieb Callomon,Paul:


Just to add two points: I?m not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as ? apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen ? the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.
 Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
 From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu><mailto:HawksC at si.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu><mailto:shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 External.
Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.
 Cathy
 Catharine Hawks
Museum Conservator
NMNH Smithsonian Institution
 From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Shoobs, Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 External Email - Exercise Caution
Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.
 You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.
 The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it?s not about brute strength, it?s more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it?ll generally lift right up.
 For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.
 -Nate
 -
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.eduFrom: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ?
Hi Vanessa,
 Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.
 Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
 From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 External.
Hi!
 I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!
 I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.
 Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?  Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
 Kind regards,
Vanessa Pitusi
 Sent from Outlook for iOS
 Sent from Outlook for iOS

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.




--
****
 Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg
 Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<http://www.leibniz-lib.de>
 --
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.







--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/7d35b810/attachment.html>

From abentley at ku.edu  Wed Nov 15 11:46:57 2023
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:46:57 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <A1742087-6D80-4BC0-A729-14FD4A26E312@btinternet.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <1f1ef4d2-9318-4623-8b61-354bda8cb401@leibniz-lib.de>
 <A1742087-6D80-4BC0-A729-14FD4A26E312@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR01MB8020FAD5679916603DC77555B2B1A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Didn't Dries van Dam design and sell a ground glass jar opening "machine"?  I can't find anything on the web about it but maybe it was his Alcomon company

Andy

    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

-----Original Message-----
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Simon Moore
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 10:39 AM
To: Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>; Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

I forgot to mention that Dixon glass (UK) also supply both the ground-glass stoppered jars and the flange jars with the flat circular lids.

Interesting to hear of Dirk's slight misadventure, rather dramatic way to get the lid off!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

http://www.natural-history-conservation.com/


> On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:31, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:
>
> ... an alternative can be to put the entire cylinder in a (smaller) drum that is filled with warm water to heat of the entire cylinder evenly. But again, mind any external labels when doing this.
>
> Paul's very thoughtful comment on the tension in the (historic) glassware is substantiated, especially because the bottom usually is thicker, but thins towards the walls and often is unevenly blown (might be different for those jars that where blown into moulds).
>
> Also, if the pressure gets too high inside, the stopper can be propelled off the jar; I had once one where I was lucky to get my head out of the way on time, when the neck expanded and released to jammed stopper that went up 2 metres. Luckily I caught it again and it hit not the floor.
>
> With best wishes
> Dirk
>
>
> Am 15.11.2023 um 16:34 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
>> Just to add two points: I'm not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as - apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen - the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
>> Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.
>>  Paul Callomon
>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
>> Natural Sciences of Drexel University
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>>  From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
>> To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul
>> <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>;
>> nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  External.
>> Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.
>>  Cathy
>>  Catharine Hawks
>> Museum Conservator
>> NMNH Smithsonian Institution
>>  From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
>> Shoobs, Nate
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
>> To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi
>> <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  External Email - Exercise Caution
>> Vanessa,
>> Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.
>>  You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.
>>  The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it's not about brute strength, it's more about making the lid move that first little bit.
>> Once it budges at all, it'll generally lift right up.
>>  For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.
>>  -Nate
>>  -
>> Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks College of Arts & Sciences
>> Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State
>> University Museum of Biological Diversity
>> 1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
>> 614-688-1342 (Office)
>> mbd.osu.eduFrom: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on
>> behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
>> To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show
>> often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck
>> expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - Hi Vanessa,  Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.
>>  Paul Callomon
>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
>> Natural Sciences of Drexel University
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>>  From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
>> Vanessa Pitusi
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
>> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  External.
>> Hi!
>>  I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!
>>  I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
>> Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.
>>  Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?  Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
>>  Kind regards,
>> Vanessa Pitusi
>>  Sent from Outlook for iOS
>>  Sent from Outlook for iOS
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mai/
>> lman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley
>> %40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636
>> feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI
>> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
>> 7C%7C%7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserve
>> d=0
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management
>> of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>
> --
> ****
>  Dirk Neumann
> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>  Postal address:
> Museum of Nature Hamburg
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
> of Biodiversity Change
> Dirk Neumann
> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
> 20146 Hamburg
> +49 40 238 317 - 628
> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de
> http://www.l/
> eibniz-lib.de%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc28
> 3d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C6383566318
> 09014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
> CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NMU2j7T96KBfkHul56
> GbZozf01GCXap7vLxmMvgGbW4%3D&reserved=0
>  --
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
> in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>
> --
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
> in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mail/
> man.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%4
> 0ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636fea
> bbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C
> %7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserved=0
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

From abentley at ku.edu  Wed Nov 15 11:48:09 2023
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:48:09 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR01MB8020FAD5679916603DC77555B2B1A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <1f1ef4d2-9318-4623-8b61-354bda8cb401@leibniz-lib.de>
 <A1742087-6D80-4BC0-A729-14FD4A26E312@btinternet.com>
 <SN7PR01MB8020FAD5679916603DC77555B2B1A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR01MB8020B41A3A22ABFF83B63950B2B1A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>

I knew I wasn't crazy - https://alcomon.com/about/.

Andy

    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

-----Original Message-----
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Bentley, Andrew Charles
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 10:47 AM
To: Simon Moore <couteaufin at btinternet.com>; Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>; Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

Didn't Dries van Dam design and sell a ground glass jar opening "machine"?  I can't find anything on the web about it but maybe it was his Alcomon company

Andy

    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

-----Original Message-----
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Simon Moore
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 10:39 AM
To: Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>; Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

I forgot to mention that Dixon glass (UK) also supply both the ground-glass stoppered jars and the flange jars with the flat circular lids.

Interesting to hear of Dirk's slight misadventure, rather dramatic way to get the lid off!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

http://www.natural-history-conservation.com/


> On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:31, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:
>
> ... an alternative can be to put the entire cylinder in a (smaller) drum that is filled with warm water to heat of the entire cylinder evenly. But again, mind any external labels when doing this.
>
> Paul's very thoughtful comment on the tension in the (historic) glassware is substantiated, especially because the bottom usually is thicker, but thins towards the walls and often is unevenly blown (might be different for those jars that where blown into moulds).
>
> Also, if the pressure gets too high inside, the stopper can be propelled off the jar; I had once one where I was lucky to get my head out of the way on time, when the neck expanded and released to jammed stopper that went up 2 metres. Luckily I caught it again and it hit not the floor.
>
> With best wishes
> Dirk
>
>
> Am 15.11.2023 um 16:34 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
>> Just to add two points: I'm not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as - apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen - the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
>> Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.
>>  Paul Callomon
>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
>> Natural Sciences of Drexel University
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>>  From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
>> To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul
>> <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>;
>> nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  External.
>> Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.
>>  Cathy
>>  Catharine Hawks
>> Museum Conservator
>> NMNH Smithsonian Institution
>>  From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
>> Shoobs, Nate
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
>> To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi
>> <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  External Email - Exercise Caution
>> Vanessa,
>> Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.
>>  You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.
>>  The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it's not about brute strength, it's more about making the lid move that first little bit.
>> Once it budges at all, it'll generally lift right up.
>>  For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.
>>  -Nate
>>  -
>> Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks College of Arts & Sciences
>> Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State
>> University Museum of Biological Diversity
>> 1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
>> 614-688-1342 (Office)
>> mbd.osu.eduFrom: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on
>> behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
>> To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show
>> often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck
>> expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - Hi Vanessa,  Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.
>>  Paul Callomon
>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
>> Natural Sciences of Drexel University
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>>  From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
>> Vanessa Pitusi
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
>> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>  External.
>> Hi!
>>  I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!
>>  I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
>> Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.
>>  Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?  Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
>>  Kind regards,
>> Vanessa Pitusi
>>  Sent from Outlook for iOS
>>  Sent from Outlook for iOS
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mai/
>> lman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley
>> %40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636
>> feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI
>> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
>> 7C%7C%7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserve
>> d=0
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management
>> of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>
> --
> ****
>  Dirk Neumann
> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>  Postal address:
> Museum of Nature Hamburg
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
> of Biodiversity Change
> Dirk Neumann
> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
> 20146 Hamburg
> +49 40 238 317 - 628
> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de
> http://www.l/
> %2F&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C8fbd06354f0b42c0c0ab08dbe5fa818
> a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356636311295807%7CUn
> known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW
> wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0tFfOA%2BfI7ywpnSQny1iGeRnSz8kl
> %2BeN9prg0d2oJQc%3D&reserved=0
> eibniz-lib.de%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc28
> 3d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C6383566318
> 09014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
> CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NMU2j7T96KBfkHul56
> GbZozf01GCXap7vLxmMvgGbW4%3D&reserved=0
>  --
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
> in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>
> --
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
> in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mail/
> man.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%4
> 0ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636fea
> bbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C
> %7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserved=0
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 15 11:51:48 2023
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:51:48 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR01MB8020FAD5679916603DC77555B2B1A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <1f1ef4d2-9318-4623-8b61-354bda8cb401@leibniz-lib.de>
 <A1742087-6D80-4BC0-A729-14FD4A26E312@btinternet.com>
 <SN7PR01MB8020FAD5679916603DC77555B2B1A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <A8B8312A-0081-42DE-8C91-508EA748A853@btinternet.com>

He did indeed but it was a tad expensive - over 1,000 Euro I think, but I?m sure he?ll mention it!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

www.natural-history-conservation.com


> On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:46, Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu> wrote:
> 
> Didn't Dries van Dam design and sell a ground glass jar opening "machine"?  I can't find anything on the web about it but maybe it was his Alcomon company
> 
> Andy
> 
>    A  :             A  :             A  :
> }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>    V                V                V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
> Dyche Hall
> 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> USA
> 
> Tel: (785) 864-3863
> Fax: (785) 864-5335
> Email: abentley at ku.edu
> ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
> http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/
>    A  :             A  :             A  :
> }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>    V                V                V
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Simon Moore
> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 10:39 AM
> To: Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>; Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
> Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
> 
> I forgot to mention that Dixon glass (UK) also supply both the ground-glass stoppered jars and the flange jars with the flat circular lids.
> 
> Interesting to hear of Dirk's slight misadventure, rather dramatic way to get the lid off!
> 
> With all good wishes, Simon
> 
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.
> 
> http://www.natural-history-conservation.com/
> 
> 
>> On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:31, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:
>> 
>> ... an alternative can be to put the entire cylinder in a (smaller) drum that is filled with warm water to heat of the entire cylinder evenly. But again, mind any external labels when doing this.
>> 
>> Paul's very thoughtful comment on the tension in the (historic) glassware is substantiated, especially because the bottom usually is thicker, but thins towards the walls and often is unevenly blown (might be different for those jars that where blown into moulds).
>> 
>> Also, if the pressure gets too high inside, the stopper can be propelled off the jar; I had once one where I was lucky to get my head out of the way on time, when the neck expanded and released to jammed stopper that went up 2 metres. Luckily I caught it again and it hit not the floor.
>> 
>> With best wishes
>> Dirk
>> 
>> 
>> Am 15.11.2023 um 16:34 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
>>> Just to add two points: I'm not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as - apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen - the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
>>> Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.
>>> Paul Callomon
>>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
>>> Natural Sciences of Drexel University
>>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>>> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>>> From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
>>> To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul
>>> <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>;
>>> nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>> External.
>>> Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.
>>> Cathy
>>> Catharine Hawks
>>> Museum Conservator
>>> NMNH Smithsonian Institution
>>> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
>>> Shoobs, Nate
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
>>> To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi
>>> <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>> External Email - Exercise Caution
>>> Vanessa,
>>> Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.
>>> You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.
>>> The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it's not about brute strength, it's more about making the lid move that first little bit.
>>> Once it budges at all, it'll generally lift right up.
>>> For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.
>>> -Nate
>>> -
>>> Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks College of Arts & Sciences
>>> Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State
>>> University Museum of Biological Diversity
>>> 1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
>>> 614-688-1342 (Office)
>>> mbd.osu.eduFrom: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on
>>> behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
>>> To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>> Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show
>>> often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck
>>> expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - Hi Vanessa,  Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.
>>> Paul Callomon
>>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
>>> Natural Sciences of Drexel University
>>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>>> prc44 at drexel.edu Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
>>> From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
>>> Vanessa Pitusi
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
>>> To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>> External.
>>> Hi!
>>> I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!
>>> I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
>>> Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.
>>> Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?  Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Vanessa Pitusi
>>> Sent from Outlook for iOS
>>> Sent from Outlook for iOS
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>>> https://mai/
>>> lman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley
>>> %40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636
>>> feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI
>>> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
>>> 7C%7C%7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserve
>>> d=0
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management
>>> of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
>>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> ****
>> Dirk Neumann
>> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>> Postal address:
>> Museum of Nature Hamburg
>> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>> of Biodiversity Change
>> Dirk Neumann
>> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>> 20146 Hamburg
>> +49 40 238 317 - 628
>> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de
>> http://www.l/
>> eibniz-lib.de%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc28
>> 3d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C6383566318
>> 09014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
>> CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NMU2j7T96KBfkHul56
>> GbZozf01GCXap7vLxmMvgGbW4%3D&reserved=0
>> --
>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>> 
>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
>> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
>> in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>> 
>> --
>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>> 
>> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
>> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
>> in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mail/
>> man.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%4
>> 0ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636fea
>> bbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C
>> %7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserved=0
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Wed Nov 15 11:53:02 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:53:02 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR01MB8020FAD5679916603DC77555B2B1A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <1f1ef4d2-9318-4623-8b61-354bda8cb401@leibniz-lib.de>
 <A1742087-6D80-4BC0-A729-14FD4A26E312@btinternet.com>
 <SN7PR01MB8020FAD5679916603DC77555B2B1A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <532845eb-d2cb-4fd6-9160-e91b9b98bd42@leibniz-lib.de>

I thought of this, but in these jars Vanessa showed the Dries-Machine does not work, because the knob is an even square without groove to hook the level.

Guess in this specific case you have to work with war water to widen the neck

here is the link to Dires' website with ad for his Dries-Machine
https://alcomon.com/about/


Am 15.11.2023 um 17:46 schrieb Bentley, Andrew Charles:

Didn't Dries van Dam design and sell a ground glass jar opening "machine"?  I can't find anything on the web about it but maybe it was his Alcomon company

Andy

    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

-----Original Message-----
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Simon Moore
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 10:39 AM
To: Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de><mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>; Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu><mailto:HawksC at si.edu>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

I forgot to mention that Dixon glass (UK) also supply both the ground-glass stoppered jars and the flange jars with the flat circular lids.

Interesting to hear of Dirk's slight misadventure, rather dramatic way to get the lid off!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

http://www.natural-history-conservation.com/




On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:31, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de><mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:

... an alternative can be to put the entire cylinder in a (smaller) drum that is filled with warm water to heat of the entire cylinder evenly. But again, mind any external labels when doing this.

Paul's very thoughtful comment on the tension in the (historic) glassware is substantiated, especially because the bottom usually is thicker, but thins towards the walls and often is unevenly blown (might be different for those jars that where blown into moulds).

Also, if the pressure gets too high inside, the stopper can be propelled off the jar; I had once one where I was lucky to get my head out of the way on time, when the neck expanded and released to jammed stopper that went up 2 metres. Luckily I caught it again and it hit not the floor.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 15.11.2023 um 16:34 schrieb Callomon,Paul:


Just to add two points: I'm not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as - apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen - the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.
 Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
 From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu><mailto:HawksC at si.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu><mailto:shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul
<prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>;
nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 External.
Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.
 Cathy
 Catharine Hawks
Museum Conservator
NMNH Smithsonian Institution
 From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
Shoobs, Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi
<vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 External Email - Exercise Caution
Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.
 You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.
 The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it's not about brute strength, it's more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it'll generally lift right up.
 For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.
 -Nate
 -
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks College of Arts & Sciences
Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State
University Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.eduFrom: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on
behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
<nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show
often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck
expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - Hi Vanessa,  Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.
 Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
 From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 External.
Hi!
 I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!
 I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.
 Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?  Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
 Kind regards,
Vanessa Pitusi
 Sent from Outlook for iOS
 Sent from Outlook for iOS

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mai/
lman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley
%40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636
feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI
joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
7C%7C%7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserve
d=0

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management
of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.




--
****
 Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg
 Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 - 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
http://www.l/
eibniz-lib.de%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc28
3d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C6383566318
09014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NMU2j7T96KBfkHul56
GbZozf01GCXap7vLxmMvgGbW4%3D&reserved=0
 --
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mail/
man.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%4
0ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636fea
bbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C
%7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserved=0

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.




_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/f114d4cc/attachment.html>

From d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de  Wed Nov 15 11:54:44 2023
From: d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de (Dirk Neumann)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 17:54:44 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <A8B8312A-0081-42DE-8C91-508EA748A853@btinternet.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <1f1ef4d2-9318-4623-8b61-354bda8cb401@leibniz-lib.de>
 <A1742087-6D80-4BC0-A729-14FD4A26E312@btinternet.com>
 <SN7PR01MB8020FAD5679916603DC77555B2B1A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <A8B8312A-0081-42DE-8C91-508EA748A853@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <0f89f50d-5426-4f13-ba6a-7c28edae95f7@leibniz-lib.de>

... and it is worth every penny! Not sure if Dries would sell it for such a low price ;o)~


Am 15.11.2023 um 17:51 schrieb Simon Moore:

He did indeed but it was a tad expensive - over 1,000 Euro I think, but I?m sure he?ll mention it!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>




On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:46, Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu><mailto:abentley at ku.edu> wrote:

Didn't Dries van Dam design and sell a ground glass jar opening "machine"?  I can't find anything on the web about it but maybe it was his Alcomon company

Andy

   A  :             A  :             A  :
}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
   V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863
Fax: (785) 864-5335
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/
   A  :             A  :             A  :
}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
   V                V                V

-----Original Message-----
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Simon Moore
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 10:39 AM
To: Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de><mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>; Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu><mailto:HawksC at si.edu>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

I forgot to mention that Dixon glass (UK) also supply both the ground-glass stoppered jars and the flange jars with the flat circular lids.

Interesting to hear of Dirk's slight misadventure, rather dramatic way to get the lid off!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

http://www.natural-history-conservation.com/




On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:31, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de><mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:

... an alternative can be to put the entire cylinder in a (smaller) drum that is filled with warm water to heat of the entire cylinder evenly. But again, mind any external labels when doing this.

Paul's very thoughtful comment on the tension in the (historic) glassware is substantiated, especially because the bottom usually is thicker, but thins towards the walls and often is unevenly blown (might be different for those jars that where blown into moulds).

Also, if the pressure gets too high inside, the stopper can be propelled off the jar; I had once one where I was lucky to get my head out of the way on time, when the neck expanded and released to jammed stopper that went up 2 metres. Luckily I caught it again and it hit not the floor.

With best wishes
Dirk


Am 15.11.2023 um 16:34 schrieb Callomon,Paul:


Just to add two points: I'm not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as - apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen - the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.
Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu><mailto:HawksC at si.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu><mailto:shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul
<prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>;
nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!
External.
Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.
Cathy
Catharine Hawks
Museum Conservator
NMNH Smithsonian Institution
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
Shoobs, Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi
<vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
External Email - Exercise Caution
Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.
You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.
The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it's not about brute strength, it's more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it'll generally lift right up.
For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.
-Nate
-
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks College of Arts & Sciences
Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State
University Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.eduFrom: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on
behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
<nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show
often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck
expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - Hi Vanessa,  Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don't make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack - I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.
Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of
Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of
Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
External.
Hi!
I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!
I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.
Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?  Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
Kind regards,
Vanessa Pitusi
Sent from Outlook for iOS
Sent from Outlook for iOS

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mai/
lman.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley
%40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636
feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI
joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
7C%7C%7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserve
d=0

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management
of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.




--
****
Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg
Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 - 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
http://www.l/
eibniz-lib.de%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%40ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc28
3d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C6383566318
09014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NMU2j7T96KBfkHul56
GbZozf01GCXap7vLxmMvgGbW4%3D&reserved=0
--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer) Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
in Bonn Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mail/
man.yale.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnhcoll-l&data=05%7C01%7Cabentley%4
0ku.edu%7C0f7ce5e159c141bc283d08dbe5f974ff%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636fea
bbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638356631809014760%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM
C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C
%7C&sdata=1gb1joB61NDWTsLhDBE30UvrG8CNdTDzBUIw5CDQPB8%3D&reserved=0

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.




_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to society. See http://www.spnhc.org/ for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.






--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/fb14dbe4/attachment.html>

From info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de  Wed Nov 15 12:18:30 2023
From: info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de (Fabian Neisskenwirth)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 18:18:30 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <d7f8dc4b-a6bf-4a34-8620-6e172cbe61d3@leibniz-lib.de>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <d7f8dc4b-a6bf-4a34-8620-6e172cbe61d3@leibniz-lib.de>
Message-ID: <3c837864-8f2c-40d6-8216-62d0011a5be7@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>

Dear Vanessa,

regardless however you get to open the stopper jars, don't use the same 
lid again, since you will be facing the same problem in the future. It 
seems like your lids do not really fit to the jar and was just pressed 
inside to somehow fit, then the lids get clammed and are a pain to open. 
Historical grounded stopper jar usually were made with unique lid, so 
that it only fits on the jar it was made for even if they seem to be 
fitting, its not. Sometimes you actually find some numbers engraved in 
the jars and lid, marking the right fit.

If I understand right, your goal is to replace lids? or the whole jar?

If you are wanting to replace grounded lids, you will face the upper 
mentioned problem that they wont fit. Besides that no supplier sells 
only lids.

The flat round lids, you can cut yourself with this 
<https://www.glasinsel-shop.de/de/glas-und-zubehoer/Tiffany-Glaskunst-Zubehoer/rundschneider/rundschneider-bohle-silberschnitt-mit-6-stahlraedchen-fuer-72-mm-600-mm.html>. 
You will have to grind them on one side using some carborundum (silicon 
carbide) of about 180 grit. The same for the jar you will be using (flat 
top). Then you can choose a variety of sealing methods, the ones making 
a slight under pressure in the jar (through heating up the lid), make a 
fantastic seal.

If you need new jars, you might seek at Dirk's proposed suppliers. There 
is a third company making very affordable grounded stopper borosilicate 
jars, called Simax/Kavalier 
<https://www.kavalier.cz/en/jars-specimen-with-ground-in-cover-with-knob-sp63.html>. 
I just ordered a large number of those for a project in Switzerland and 
I'm very happy with them. Even though DWK sells better ones, but this 
cost the half or 1/3 of the German ones (not that i want to promote 
price dumping, but DWK is definitely to expensive, I've told that the 
people in charge there already).

You might be able to grind down the large grounded stopper jars you 
already have, but give this to someone that has experience in grinding 
glass (maybe a local glazier). Then you can use the flat lids for this 
jars then aswell.


Be careful with making to much pressure in the jar, the jumping lids is 
one possible accident, but the worst scenario is a full explosion of the 
jar, that's a real mess and a big loss of fantastic and irreplaceable 
glassware.


All the best from the Ruhrarea,

Am 15.11.23 um 16:19 schrieb Dirk Neumann:
> Hi Vanessa,
> St?lzle Oberglas (but they no longer have jars on stock, only 
> occasionally), or you can contact Gassner Glastechnik in Munich (link 
> <https://gassner-glastechnik.de/kontakt/>); they can customise flanged 
> borosilicate jars which you can easily (and hermitically) seal with a 
> good, silicone-free ground-stopper grease like Alsirol (link 
> <https://www.fishersci.de/shop/products/joint-grease-1/10130201>)
>
> Neubert (link 
> <https://www.neubert-glas.de/laborglas/onlineshop/katalog.php?KATfrom=suche&SearchText=pr%E4parat&struc=1_995727484085_1030342896125_1005301727684_1515949502601&kat=1023362157218&PHPSESSID=1effb50f3b77f3e7035b5480d4f6ce4b>) 
> sells DWK Schott jars, but they are usually not too large, and we need 
> a re-seller as museums cannot order directly at DWK (link 
> <https://www.dwk.com/duran-museum-jar-with-ground-glass-plate>)
>
> It might also help if you place the jars into warmer working space 
> rooms for a while, or, as Paul mentioned, put the jar into a shower 
> and try with warm water. Watch any external labels and protect them 
> against soaking.
>
> ?Hope this helps
> Dirk
>
>
> Am 15.11.2023 um 15:02 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
>>
>> Hi Vanessa,
>>
>> Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen 
>> if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands 
>> further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the 
>> glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is usually enough 
>> to do the trick.
>>
>> Paul Callomon
>>
>> Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates//
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University***
>>
>> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
>> /prc44 at drexel.edu <mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 
>> 215-299-1170/
>>
>> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> *On Behalf Of 
>> *Vanessa Pitusi
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
>> *To:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> *Subject:* [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
>>
>> *External.***
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection 
>> managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would 
>> be?greatly appreciated!
>>
>> I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and 
>> tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them 
>> is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
>>
>> Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open 
>> by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any 
>> advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me 
>> something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some 
>> more opinions.
>>
>> Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make 
>> such glasses and lids?
>>
>> Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Vanessa Pitusi
>>
>> Sent fromOutlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. Seehttp://www.spnhc.org  for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
> -- 
>
> ******
>
> **
>
> *Dirk Neumann*
>
> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>
> Postal address:
>
> *Museum of Nature Hamburg*
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>
> of Biodiversity Change
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>
> 20146Hamburg
> +49 40238 317 ? 628
>
> _d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de_
>
> www.leibniz-lib.de 
> <imap://dneumann at webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>
>
> -- 
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian 
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>
> -- 
> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian 
> Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. Seehttp://www.spnhc.org  for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
-- 
*Fabian Neisskenwirth*
Restaurator/Pr?parator

Oststr. 138
DE-45057 Duisburg

Tel: +49 (0) 1573 2778729

www.naturhistorische-konservierung.de
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/2ad5dc18/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Logo.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 47337 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/2ad5dc18/attachment.jpg>

From acrawford4 at ku.edu  Wed Nov 15 13:02:19 2023
From: acrawford4 at ku.edu (Crawford, Audrey Rose)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 18:02:19 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Mammal Bone Prep Survey 2023
Message-ID: <CO1PR01MB6726AC5D6B929297D9645CE1F3B1A@CO1PR01MB6726.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Hello all,



My name is Audrey Crawford;  I am a graduate student in the Museum Studies Master?s program at the University of Kansas. For my final project, I am surveying the mammal bone preparation community to investigate the wide variety of ways that people clean mammal bones today.



If you work in the United States, are over 18, are not incarcerated, and prepare mammal bones for long-term storage or use I would like to invite you to participate in this study<https://forms.gle/hYgHEFczRnUDoKpn6>. If you already have a protocol or ?how-to? written, participating may take as little as 5 minutes.



The purpose of this survey is to observe and record the wide variety of mammal bone preparation techniques used across the United States. We would like to look at as many methods as possible, so please do share this survey/link with anyone you feel would be interested. Although this is a museum studies project, we are particularly interested in reaching groups who haven't previously received academic attention, such as indigenous groups, for-profit taxidermists, and private organizations. We are also interested in groups who feel their methods are outdated or inefficient to see the range of techniques in use today. We recognize that to some, these practices are closed or proprietary, so we encourage you to only share what you feel comfortable sharing publicly; there are also options to submit anonymously. The survey includes a permissions section where you may outline in detail the ways you would and would not like this information to be used.



What exactly is mammal bone preparation? Here, this is the process of removing the tissue from deceased animals so that their bones may be saved indefinitely as skeletons or be used for any variety of purposes, including making art, tools, etc. This should be distinguished from taxidermy, which is the art of mounting skins to forms, although sometimes prepared bones are used in that process. There are a variety of ways to prepare bones, including picking away tissue by hand or with the help of dermestid beetles, by water rotting (maceration), burying, ocean submersion, and many others. We want to know how you do this at your group or institution.



It is my hope that by sharing our techniques they can be better documented for the future, and that we can learn more about the bones in our care, share alternative protocols, and improve the reliability of our research.



To participate, follow this link: https://forms.gle/hYgHEFczRnUDoKpn6

and fill out the full survey. Note that you do need to provide a Gmail address to participate.



Please send any questions, feedback, or concerns to boneprepsurvey at gmail.com<mailto:boneprepsurvey at gmail.com>



Thank you,

Audrey Crawford

Museum Studies Graduate Student
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/85a82515/attachment.html>

From a.j.van_dam at lumc.nl  Wed Nov 15 15:06:31 2023
From: a.j.van_dam at lumc.nl (a.j.van_dam at lumc.nl)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 20:06:31 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <3c837864-8f2c-40d6-8216-62d0011a5be7@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <d7f8dc4b-a6bf-4a34-8620-6e172cbe61d3@leibniz-lib.de>
 <3c837864-8f2c-40d6-8216-62d0011a5be7@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
Message-ID: <AS5PR07MB100050424AC923793130B01B184B1A@AS5PR07MB10005.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Vanessa,

Here's the link to the webpage showing the Universal Stopper Jar Opener:
https://alcomon.com/about/

If you want to know more about these instruments you can send an email to: info at alcomon.com

The Natural History Museum Londen are using these openers for many years and might want to share their experience.

Kind regards,

Dries


________________________________
Van: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> namens Fabian Neisskenwirth <info at naturhistorische-konservierung.de>
Verzonden: woensdag 15 november 2023 18:18
Aan: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Onderwerp: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!


Dear Vanessa,

regardless however you get to open the stopper jars, don't use the same lid again, since you will be facing the same problem in the future. It seems like your lids do not really fit to the jar and was just pressed inside to somehow fit, then the lids get clammed and are a pain to open. Historical grounded stopper jar usually were made with unique lid, so that it only fits on the jar it was made for even if they seem to be fitting, its not. Sometimes you actually find some numbers engraved in the jars and lid, marking the right fit.

If I understand right, your goal is to replace lids? or the whole jar?

If you are wanting to replace grounded lids, you will face the upper mentioned problem that they wont fit. Besides that no supplier sells only lids.

The flat round lids, you can cut yourself with this<https://www.glasinsel-shop.de/de/glas-und-zubehoer/Tiffany-Glaskunst-Zubehoer/rundschneider/rundschneider-bohle-silberschnitt-mit-6-stahlraedchen-fuer-72-mm-600-mm.html>. You will have to grind them on one side using some carborundum (silicon carbide) of about 180 grit. The same for the jar you will be using (flat top). Then you can choose a variety of sealing methods, the ones making a slight under pressure in the jar (through heating up the lid), make a fantastic seal.

If you need new jars, you might seek at Dirk's proposed suppliers. There is a third company making very affordable grounded stopper borosilicate jars, called Simax/Kavalier<https://www.kavalier.cz/en/jars-specimen-with-ground-in-cover-with-knob-sp63.html>. I just ordered a large number of those for a project in Switzerland and I'm very happy with them. Even though DWK sells better ones, but this cost the half or 1/3 of the German ones (not that i want to promote price dumping, but DWK is definitely to expensive, I've told that the people in charge there already).

You might be able to grind down the large grounded stopper jars you already have, but give this to someone that has experience in grinding glass (maybe a local glazier). Then you can use the flat lids for this jars then aswell.


Be careful with making to much pressure in the jar, the jumping lids is one possible accident, but the worst scenario is a full explosion of the jar, that's a real mess and a big loss of fantastic and irreplaceable glassware.


All the best from the Ruhrarea,

Am 15.11.23 um 16:19 schrieb Dirk Neumann:
Hi Vanessa,
St?lzle Oberglas (but they no longer have jars on stock, only occasionally), or you can contact Gassner Glastechnik in Munich (link<https://gassner-glastechnik.de/kontakt/>); they can customise flanged borosilicate jars which you can easily (and hermitically) seal with a good, silicone-free ground-stopper grease like Alsirol (link<https://www.fishersci.de/shop/products/joint-grease-1/10130201>)

Neubert (link<https://www.neubert-glas.de/laborglas/onlineshop/katalog.php?KATfrom=suche&SearchText=pr%E4parat&struc=1_995727484085_1030342896125_1005301727684_1515949502601&kat=1023362157218&PHPSESSID=1effb50f3b77f3e7035b5480d4f6ce4b>) sells DWK Schott jars, but they are usually not too large, and we need a re-seller as museums cannot order directly at DWK (link<https://www.dwk.com/duran-museum-jar-with-ground-glass-plate>)

It might also help if you place the jars into warmer working space rooms for a while, or, as Paul mentioned, put the jar into a shower and try with warm water. Watch any external labels and protect them against soaking.

 Hope this helps
Dirk


Am 15.11.2023 um 15:02 schrieb Callomon,Paul:

Hi Vanessa,



Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.



Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

________________________________

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!



External.

Hi!



I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!



I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.

Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.



Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?



Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).



Kind regards,

Vanessa Pitusi



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.



--

****



Dirk Neumann

Collection Manager, Hamburg



Postal address:

Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis

of Biodiversity Change

Dirk Neumann

Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3

20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 ? 628

d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>

www.leibniz-lib.de



--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst



--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversit?tswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des ?ffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Gr?ter (Kaufm. Gesch?ftsf?hrer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--
Fabian Neisskenwirth
Restaurator/Pr?parator

Oststr. 138
DE-45057 Duisburg

Tel: +49 (0) 1573 2778729

www.naturhistorische-konservierung.de<http://www.naturhistorische-konservierung.de/>

[cid:part1.0a4VG0r4.DH3NneSk at naturhistorische-konservierung.de]
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/7818a996/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Logo.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 47337 bytes
Desc: Logo.jpg
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/7818a996/attachment.jpg>

From Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de  Thu Nov 16 01:33:05 2023
From: Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Joachim=20H=C3=A4ndel?=)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 07:33:05 +0100
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <6555B7A1020000B3000BDADC@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>

Yes, Paul - Alconox is great!
It takes a little time but it penetrates well and frees the stopper.
It also dissolves any hardened gasket grease.
(Alconox contains more than trisodium phosphate)

 


Another note: yes - the white sealing compound at the photos could be
linseed oil putty.
Or gutta-percha, a rubbery, caoutchouc-like substance made from the 
coagulated sap  Sapotaceae-Tree (for example Palaquium gutta)

Originally used in dentistry - and golf balls were made from it.
It was a common sealing agent for specimen storage jars in the 20th
century.
However, the elastomer becomes hard and brittle and crumbly over time
and no longer seals the jars.
To open it, simply use a sharp knife and slide the blade under the lid.

All the best
Joachim

 
--  
Joachim Haendel
 
Center of Natural History Collections
of the Martin Luther University (ZNS)
- Entomological Collection -

Domplatz 4
D-06099 Halle (Saale)
Germany

Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de

>>> "Callomon,Paul" <prc44 at drexel.edu> 15.11.2023, 16:34 >>>


Just to add two points: I?m not sure that heating the fluid to increase
internal pressure is a good idea, as ? apart from possibly
upsetting the chemistry of the specimen ? the jar might crack at its
thinnest point before the lid lifts.

Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A
teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a
very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in
that might well do the trick.

 

Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu [prc44 at drexel.edu] Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

 

From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>;
Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>;
nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!

 

External.

Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water
to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change
inside the jar will loosen the lid.

 

Cathy

 

Catharine Hawks

Museum Conservator

NMNH Smithsonian Institution

 

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Shoobs,
Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi
<vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

 

External Email - Exercise Caution

Vanessa,

Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these
jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used
warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has
been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while.
The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to
alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm
water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that
usually works.

 

You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental
pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration
of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between
the lid and the jar.

 

The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You
want to use a decent amount of force, but it?s not about
brute strength, it?s more about making the lid move that first little
bit.

Once it budges at all, it?ll generally lift right up.

 

For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind,
puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest
method to open them. 

 

-Nate

 

-
Biology, The Ohio State University
Museum of Biological Diversity

1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.edu [http://mbd.osu.edu/]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu
[nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu]> on behalf of Callomon,Paul
<prc44 at drexel.edu [prc44 at drexel.edu]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no [vanessa.pitusi at uit.no]>;
nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu [nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu]
<nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu [nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu]>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

 

Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often
loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar
neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though,
as the glass could crack ?

Hi Vanessa,

 

Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if
you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck
expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as
the glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is
usually enough to do the trick.

 

Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu [prc44 at drexel.edu] Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

 

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu
[nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu]> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu [nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu]
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

 

External.

Hi!

 

I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers
and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer
would be greatly appreciated!

 

I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and
tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some
of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were
sealed.

Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by
warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck.
Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me
something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted
to get some more opinions.

 

Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make
such glasses and lids? 

 

Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).

 

Kind regards,

Vanessa Pitusi

 

Sent from Outlook for iOS
[https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$]

 

Sent from Outlook for iOS
[https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$]
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/ded10994/attachment.html>

From benjaminaehrman at gmail.com  Thu Nov 16 07:36:19 2023
From: benjaminaehrman at gmail.com (Benjamin Ehrman)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 07:36:19 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
Message-ID: <CAFPq8aWvhRS8utAKpn1Z_=q5HwqT8TUiPP3cSXMBT1yF5cOahQ@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings all,

I was wondering if someone who has researched paleoecology (with respect to
vertebrate paleontology) in their graduate program can qualify for a
position as a collections manager, museum curator, lab technician, or
similar positions?

Are MSc or Phd degrees preferred?

I have a masters degree and am interested in a PhD, and was wondering what
sort of PhD programs would be ideal for this career path? Are there any
other recommendations you would make for someone seeking that career path?

Regards,
Ben
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/93d15431/attachment.html>

From collectionslitclub at gmail.com  Thu Nov 16 09:57:43 2023
From: collectionslitclub at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Laura_Rinc=C3=B3n?=)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 09:57:43 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
In-Reply-To: <CAFPq8aWvhRS8utAKpn1Z_=q5HwqT8TUiPP3cSXMBT1yF5cOahQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFPq8aWvhRS8utAKpn1Z_=q5HwqT8TUiPP3cSXMBT1yF5cOahQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFU0eh-ikw5wxJsYAnCs8pCUamQdzfV8h98F319H6M=iTL7L4g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Benjamin,

If you aspire to pursue a career as a manager, a background in museum
studies would be ideal. This will provide you with knowledge in museums,
collections management and care theories. Such training will enable you to
contribute and reassess museum theories, management, administration,
budgeting, personnel, collections practices and more. It will also help you
envision how you can contribute to natural history collections, especially
given the scarcity of museum studies professionals in natural history
collections. In my opinion, I think that is very important to understand
how the museum structure operates, including its history, culture (e.g;
staff dynamics, workflow), and more. With this background, you will gain a
better understanding of current practices and the reasons behind certain
approaches. On the other hand, if you aim to work as a curator, a PhD in
the relevant field is necessary, as the focus will be on research.
Different museum positions require varying skills, so the specific
requirements will depend on the job position.

I hope my answer clears things up a little bit. Feel free to get in contact
with me if you've more questions about it.

Best,

Laura A. Rinc?n R. |  Museum Studies professional

Museum Specialist

Division of Invertebrate Zoology

American Museum of Natural History

Central Park West at 79th Street

New York, NY 10024



Email: lrincon-rodriguez at amnh.org
Twitter: @LauRincon222



https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/



?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget
what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya
Angelou

On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 7:36?AM Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Greetings all,
>
> I was wondering if someone who has researched paleoecology (with respect
> to vertebrate paleontology) in their graduate program can qualify for a
> position as a collections manager, museum curator, lab technician, or
> similar positions?
>
> Are MSc or Phd degrees preferred?
>
> I have a masters degree and am interested in a PhD, and was wondering what
> sort of PhD programs would be ideal for this career path? Are there any
> other recommendations you would make for someone seeking that career path?
>
> Regards,
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>


-- 

*Laura A. Rinc?n R.* |  *Museum Studies professional*

Museum Specialist

Division of Invertebrate Zoology

American Museum of Natural History

Central Park West at 79th Street

New York, NY 10024

 https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/



?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget
what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya
Angelou
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/d0e40458/attachment.html>

From abentley at ku.edu  Thu Nov 16 10:04:03 2023
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:04:03 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
In-Reply-To: <CAFU0eh-ikw5wxJsYAnCs8pCUamQdzfV8h98F319H6M=iTL7L4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFPq8aWvhRS8utAKpn1Z_=q5HwqT8TUiPP3cSXMBT1yF5cOahQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFU0eh-ikw5wxJsYAnCs8pCUamQdzfV8h98F319H6M=iTL7L4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR01MB8020FC90E7D247FD5C90CE9DB2B0A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>

It is important to note that in most degree programs, Museum Studies is a terminal Masters degree.  There are very few PhD opportunities in Museum Studies.  However, totally agree with Laura that a Masters in Museum Studies would certainly put you on the right track for that career path.  As well as providing you with the necessary theoretical basis of collection management, most programs will also provide you with invaluable practical experience working in museum collections through an internship or other opportunities.

If however you are interested in going into research then a curatorial position would require a PhD or even more commonly nowadays, due to the competition for positions, a post-doc.

We have a great Museum Studies degree here at the University of Kansas and I teach the natural history component of the course.  I would be happy to answer any further questions you may have about this degree or career path.

Andy
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
USA<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>

Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Laura Rinc?n
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 8:58 AM
To: Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification

Hello Benjamin,

If you aspire to pursue a career as a manager, a background in museum studies would be ideal. This will provide you with knowledge in museums, collections management and care theories. Such training will enable you to contribute and reassess museum theories, management, administration, budgeting, personnel, collections practices and more. It will also help you envision how you can contribute to natural history collections, especially given the scarcity of museum studies professionals in natural history collections. In my opinion, I think that is very important to understand how the museum structure operates, including its history, culture (e.g; staff dynamics, workflow), and more. With this background, you will gain a better understanding of current practices and the reasons behind certain approaches. On the other hand, if you aim to work as a curator, a PhD in the relevant field is necessary, as the focus will be on research. Different museum positions require varying skills, so the specific requirements will depend on the job position.

I hope my answer clears things up a little bit. Feel free to get in contact with me if you've more questions about it.

Best,

Laura A. Rinc?n R. |  Museum Studies professional
Museum Specialist
Division of Invertebrate Zoology
American Museum of Natural History
Central Park West at 79th Street
New York, NY 10024

Email: lrincon-rodriguez at amnh.org<mailto:lrincon-rodriguez at amnh.org>
Twitter: @LauRincon222

https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/

?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya Angelou

On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 7:36?AM Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com<mailto:benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>> wrote:
Greetings all,

I was wondering if someone who has researched paleoecology (with respect to vertebrate paleontology) in their graduate program can qualify for a position as a collections manager, museum curator, lab technician, or similar positions?

Are MSc or Phd degrees preferred?

I have a masters degree and am interested in a PhD, and was wondering what sort of PhD programs would be ideal for this career path? Are there any other recommendations you would make for someone seeking that career path?

Regards,
Ben
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--
Laura A. Rinc?n R. |  Museum Studies professional
Museum Specialist
Division of Invertebrate Zoology
American Museum of Natural History
Central Park West at 79th Street
New York, NY 10024
 https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/

?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya Angelou
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/7c38b004/attachment.html>

From jldunnum at unm.edu  Thu Nov 16 10:21:57 2023
From: jldunnum at unm.edu (Jonathan Dunnum)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:21:57 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR01MB8020FC90E7D247FD5C90CE9DB2B0A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <CAFPq8aWvhRS8utAKpn1Z_=q5HwqT8TUiPP3cSXMBT1yF5cOahQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFU0eh-ikw5wxJsYAnCs8pCUamQdzfV8h98F319H6M=iTL7L4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <SN7PR01MB8020FC90E7D247FD5C90CE9DB2B0A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <CY4PR0701MB382854E4CDC14DC4C0904569D9B0A@CY4PR0701MB3828.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Ben,
I'll add that there are actually a number of institutions with PhD level collection managers (e.g., MSB, MVZ, UMMZ). Typically, they are doing collection management/curation but have a research component as well.

______________________________________________________________

Jonathan L. Dunnum Ph.D. (he, him, his)
Senior Collection Manager
Division of Mammals, Museum of Southwestern Biology
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131
(505) 277-9262
Fax (505) 277-1351

Chair, Systematic Collections Committee, American Society of Mammalogists
Latin American Fellowship Committee, ASM

MSB Mammals website: http://www.msb.unm.edu/mammals/index.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MSBDivisionofMammals

Shipping Address:
Museum of Southwestern Biology
Division of Mammals
University of New Mexico
CERIA Bldg 83, Room 204
Albuquerque, NM 87131
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 8:04 AM
To: Laura Rinc?n <collectionslitclub at gmail.com>; Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification


  [EXTERNAL]

It is important to note that in most degree programs, Museum Studies is a terminal Masters degree.  There are very few PhD opportunities in Museum Studies.  However, totally agree with Laura that a Masters in Museum Studies would certainly put you on the right track for that career path.  As well as providing you with the necessary theoretical basis of collection management, most programs will also provide you with invaluable practical experience working in museum collections through an internship or other opportunities.



If however you are interested in going into research then a curatorial position would require a PhD or even more commonly nowadays, due to the competition for positions, a post-doc.



We have a great Museum Studies degree here at the University of Kansas and I teach the natural history component of the course.  I would be happy to answer any further questions you may have about this degree or career path.



Andy

    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute

Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>

ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258

http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>

    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Laura Rinc?n
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 8:58 AM
To: Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification



Hello Benjamin,



If you aspire to pursue a career as a manager, a background in museum studies would be ideal. This will provide you with knowledge in museums, collections management and care theories. Such training will enable you to contribute and reassess museum theories, management, administration, budgeting, personnel, collections practices and more. It will also help you envision how you can contribute to natural history collections, especially given the scarcity of museum studies professionals in natural history collections. In my opinion, I think that is very important to understand how the museum structure operates, including its history, culture (e.g; staff dynamics, workflow), and more. With this background, you will gain a better understanding of current practices and the reasons behind certain approaches. On the other hand, if you aim to work as a curator, a PhD in the relevant field is necessary, as the focus will be on research. Different museum positions require varying skills, so the specific requirements will depend on the job position.



I hope my answer clears things up a little bit. Feel free to get in contact with me if you've more questions about it.



Best,



Laura A. Rinc?n R. |  Museum Studies professional

Museum Specialist

Division of Invertebrate Zoology

American Museum of Natural History

Central Park West at 79th Street

New York, NY 10024



Email: lrincon-rodriguez at amnh.org<mailto:lrincon-rodriguez at amnh.org>
Twitter: @LauRincon222



https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/



?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya Angelou



On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 7:36?AM Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com<mailto:benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>> wrote:

Greetings all,



I was wondering if someone who has researched paleoecology (with respect to vertebrate paleontology) in their graduate program can qualify for a position as a collections manager, museum curator, lab technician, or similar positions?



Are MSc or Phd degrees preferred?



I have a masters degree and am interested in a PhD, and was wondering what sort of PhD programs would be ideal for this career path? Are there any other recommendations you would make for someone seeking that career path?



Regards,

Ben

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.




--

Laura A. Rinc?n R. |  Museum Studies professional

Museum Specialist

Division of Invertebrate Zoology

American Museum of Natural History

Central Park West at 79th Street

New York, NY 10024

 https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/



?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya Angelou
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/070f8fd9/attachment.html>

From rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu  Thu Nov 16 10:39:08 2023
From: rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu (Rob Robins)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:39:08 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR01MB8020FC90E7D247FD5C90CE9DB2B0A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <CAFPq8aWvhRS8utAKpn1Z_=q5HwqT8TUiPP3cSXMBT1yF5cOahQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFU0eh-ikw5wxJsYAnCs8pCUamQdzfV8h98F319H6M=iTL7L4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <SN7PR01MB8020FC90E7D247FD5C90CE9DB2B0A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <SA1PR22MB3780D264D55577EA01A8FC8981B0A@SA1PR22MB3780.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Hello Ben,
As you can tell from the initial responses, there is no single path.

I would observe, however, that having a fundamental understanding of the organisms or the science that surrounds the collection that one would manage deserves more weight than other career development avenues.

Collection management and care techniques are important.

But I would rather teach management ?on the job? than familiarize staff with the organisms or science that is the core of their work. Personally, I would rank a candidate with organismal knowledge higher than one with a strictly museum studies background.

This is in part due to the following:

At least in the ?neonotologies? a large part of the work of the collection ?manager? is identification (sometimes of incredibly diverse floras or faunas), understanding the nature of research requests and weighing those requests vs. the use of the collections one manages for the greater long-term scientific good, developing research or collection improvement proposals with the research pi, and interfacing with the public concerning their questions about organisms. The latter, at least in fishes, is a big part of the job ? including at public outreach events. You simply must know the organisms.

Obtaining an MSc teaches one how to do formal research and is certainly a big plus in preparing one for a number of the aspects of the job as I have just outlined them.

In any instance, all of us learn on the job daily and perpetually. Personally, I live in a constant state of astonishment at all that I do not yet know and likely never will.

Best wishes,

Rob Robins

Robert H. Robins
Collection Manager
Division of Ichthyology
[FLMNH Fishes logo email small]
Florida Museum
1659 Museum Rd.
Gainesville, FL 32611-7800
Office: (352) 273-1957
rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu<mailto:rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu>

The UF Fish Collection is moving:
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/

Search the Collection:
http://specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/

Search samples suitable for dna analysis:
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Bentley, Andrew Charles
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 10:04 AM
To: Laura Rinc?n <collectionslitclub at gmail.com>; Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification

[External Email]
It is important to note that in most degree programs, Museum Studies is a terminal Masters degree.  There are very few PhD opportunities in Museum Studies.  However, totally agree with Laura that a Masters in Museum Studies would certainly put you on the right track for that career path.  As well as providing you with the necessary theoretical basis of collection management, most programs will also provide you with invaluable practical experience working in museum collections through an internship or other opportunities.

If however you are interested in going into research then a curatorial position would require a PhD or even more commonly nowadays, due to the competition for positions, a post-doc.

We have a great Museum Studies degree here at the University of Kansas and I teach the natural history component of the course.  I would be happy to answer any further questions you may have about this degree or career path.

Andy
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
USA<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>

Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Laura Rinc?n
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 8:58 AM
To: Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com<mailto:benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification

Hello Benjamin,

If you aspire to pursue a career as a manager, a background in museum studies would be ideal. This will provide you with knowledge in museums, collections management and care theories. Such training will enable you to contribute and reassess museum theories, management, administration, budgeting, personnel, collections practices and more. It will also help you envision how you can contribute to natural history collections, especially given the scarcity of museum studies professionals in natural history collections. In my opinion, I think that is very important to understand how the museum structure operates, including its history, culture (e.g; staff dynamics, workflow), and more. With this background, you will gain a better understanding of current practices and the reasons behind certain approaches. On the other hand, if you aim to work as a curator, a PhD in the relevant field is necessary, as the focus will be on research. Different museum positions require varying skills, so the specific requirements will depend on the job position.

I hope my answer clears things up a little bit. Feel free to get in contact with me if you've more questions about it.

Best,

Laura A. Rinc?n R. |  Museum Studies professional
Museum Specialist
Division of Invertebrate Zoology
American Museum of Natural History
Central Park West at 79th Street
New York, NY 10024

Email: lrincon-rodriguez at amnh.org<mailto:lrincon-rodriguez at amnh.org>
Twitter: @LauRincon222

https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/

?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya Angelou

On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 7:36?AM Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com<mailto:benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>> wrote:
Greetings all,

I was wondering if someone who has researched paleoecology (with respect to vertebrate paleontology) in their graduate program can qualify for a position as a collections manager, museum curator, lab technician, or similar positions?

Are MSc or Phd degrees preferred?

I have a masters degree and am interested in a PhD, and was wondering what sort of PhD programs would be ideal for this career path? Are there any other recommendations you would make for someone seeking that career path?

Regards,
Ben
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.


--
Laura A. Rinc?n R. |  Museum Studies professional
Museum Specialist
Division of Invertebrate Zoology
American Museum of Natural History
Central Park West at 79th Street
New York, NY 10024
 https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/

?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya Angelou
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/fbe643a2/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4940 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/fbe643a2/attachment-0001.jpg>

From cwthomp at umich.edu  Thu Nov 16 10:52:35 2023
From: cwthomp at umich.edu (Cody Thompson)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 10:52:35 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
In-Reply-To: <CY4PR0701MB382854E4CDC14DC4C0904569D9B0A@CY4PR0701MB3828.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAFPq8aWvhRS8utAKpn1Z_=q5HwqT8TUiPP3cSXMBT1yF5cOahQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFU0eh-ikw5wxJsYAnCs8pCUamQdzfV8h98F319H6M=iTL7L4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <SN7PR01MB8020FC90E7D247FD5C90CE9DB2B0A@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CY4PR0701MB382854E4CDC14DC4C0904569D9B0A@CY4PR0701MB3828.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMaB+fG6szR_VxSE6JpmMzbaCOL12GC8MY5=f8cLcxKbChR2hQ@mail.gmail.com>

Echoing Jon here!  I think there definitely is a place for non-museums
studies backgrounds in collection management, but it depends on the needs
and size of the collection, as well as its current personnel, for what
might be appropriate.

For example, in my collection, I think it would be hard to keep up with the
current needs of the science without having a graduate degree in
collections-based mammalogy.  At my institution, there are also limitations
on one's ability to seek out funding opportunities without having a faculty
title, which makes it difficult to secure a NSF collections support grant,
IMLS funding, or other external support without PI status.

That said, I do not think there is a one-size fits all option here.  I
think the current job market does allow for diverse museum backgrounds and
education.  However, in the end, it really depends on what you want as a
professional.

Take care,
Cody

Cody W. Thompson, PhD
Mammal Collections Manager
& Associate Research Scientist
University of Michigan
Museum of Zoology
3600 Varsity Drive
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48108
Office: (734) 615-2810
Fax: (734) 763-4080
Email: cwthomp at umich.edu
Website: codythompson.org

*Please click here to support the UMMZ Mammal Division, its collections,
and research mission!!!*
<https://lsa.umich.edu/ummz/mammals/donate-to-the-mammal-division.html>


On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 10:22?AM Jonathan Dunnum <jldunnum at unm.edu> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
> I'll add that there are actually a number of institutions with PhD level
> collection managers (e.g., MSB, MVZ, UMMZ). Typically, they are doing
> collection management/curation but have a research component as well.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> Jonathan L. Dunnum Ph.D. (he, him, his)
> Senior Collection Manager
> Division of Mammals, Museum of Southwestern Biology
> University of New Mexico
> Albuquerque, NM 87131
> (505) 277-9262
> Fax (505) 277-1351
>
> Chair, Systematic Collections Committee, American Society of Mammalogists
> Latin American Fellowship Committee, ASM
>
> MSB Mammals website: http://www.msb.unm.edu/mammals/index.html
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MSBDivisionofMammals
>
> Shipping Address:
> Museum of Southwestern Biology
> Division of Mammals
> University of New Mexico
> CERIA Bldg 83, Room 204
> Albuquerque, NM 87131
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of
> Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 16, 2023 8:04 AM
> *To:* Laura Rinc?n <collectionslitclub at gmail.com>; Benjamin Ehrman <
> benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections
> manager qualification
>
>
> *  [EXTERNAL]*
>
> It is important to note that in most degree programs, Museum Studies is a
> terminal Masters degree.  There are very few PhD opportunities in Museum
> Studies.  However, totally agree with Laura that a Masters in Museum
> Studies would certainly put you on the right track for that career path.
> As well as providing you with the necessary theoretical basis of collection
> management, most programs will also provide you with invaluable practical
> experience working in museum collections through an internship or other
> opportunities.
>
>
>
> If however you are interested in going into research then a curatorial
> position would require a PhD or even more commonly nowadays, due to the
> competition for positions, a post-doc.
>
>
>
> We have a great Museum Studies degree here at the University of Kansas and
> I teach the natural history component of the course.  I would be happy to
> answer any further questions you may have about this degree or career path.
>
>
>
> Andy
>
>     A  :             A  :             A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>     V                V                V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
>
> Dyche Hall
> 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> USA
>
> Tel: (785) 864-3863
> Fax: (785) 864-5335
> Email: abentley at ku.edu
>
> ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
>
> http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu
>
>     A  :             A  :             A  :
>  }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
>     V                V                V
>
>
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> * On Behalf Of *Laura
> Rinc?n
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 16, 2023 8:58 AM
> *To:* Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections
> manager qualification
>
>
>
> Hello Benjamin,
>
>
>
> If you aspire to pursue a career as a manager, a background in museum
> studies would be ideal. This will provide you with knowledge in museums,
> collections management and care theories. Such training will enable you to
> contribute and reassess museum theories, management, administration,
> budgeting, personnel, collections practices and more. It will also help you
> envision how you can contribute to natural history collections, especially
> given the scarcity of museum studies professionals in natural history
> collections. In my opinion, I think that is very important to understand
> how the museum structure operates, including its history, culture (e.g;
> staff dynamics, workflow), and more. With this background, you will gain a
> better understanding of current practices and the reasons behind certain
> approaches. On the other hand, if you aim to work as a curator, a PhD in
> the relevant field is necessary, as the focus will be on research.
> Different museum positions require varying skills, so the specific
> requirements will depend on the job position.
>
>
>
> I hope my answer clears things up a little bit. Feel free to get in
> contact with me if you've more questions about it.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Laura A. Rinc?n R. |  Museum Studies professional
>
> Museum Specialist
>
> Division of Invertebrate Zoology
>
> American Museum of Natural History
>
> Central Park West at 79th Street
>
> New York, NY 10024
>
>
>
> Email: lrincon-rodriguez at amnh.org
> Twitter: @LauRincon222
>
>
>
> https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/
>
>
>
> ?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget
> what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya
> Angelou
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 7:36?AM Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Greetings all,
>
>
>
> I was wondering if someone who has researched paleoecology (with respect
> to vertebrate paleontology) in their graduate program can qualify for a
> position as a collections manager, museum curator, lab technician, or
> similar positions?
>
>
>
> Are MSc or Phd degrees preferred?
>
>
>
> I have a masters degree and am interested in a PhD, and was wondering what
> sort of PhD programs would be ideal for this career path? Are there any
> other recommendations you would make for someone seeking that career path?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Laura A. Rinc?n R.* |  *Museum Studies professional*
>
> Museum Specialist
>
> Division of Invertebrate Zoology
>
> American Museum of Natural History
>
> Central Park West at 79th Street
>
> New York, NY 10024
>
>  https://collectionslitclub.wordpress.com/
>
>
>
> ?I?ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget
> what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel? Maya
> Angelou
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/02899fbb/attachment.html>

From Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.nj.gov  Thu Nov 16 11:47:45 2023
From: Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.nj.gov (Pellegrini, Rodrigo [DOS])
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:47:45 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
Message-ID: <SA9PR09MB5840B068B0236ABEF52EACE2A0B0A@SA9PR09MB5840.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>

In my opinion, it?s not really one or the other, but both.
Most Museum Studies programs will cross train you to manage collections in different disciplines, but few have expertise in all. If you were to get a Museology or Museum Studies degree at an institution that only really has a Fine Arts expertise, and your goal is to manage a Natural History collection, it wouldn?t really help you much landing a job you want.
On the other hand, if you have Academic degrees and experience, but no training or experience in collections management or registration, you wouldn?t be my first choice if I was hiring for a management position. My concerns would be whether a collections management job is really what you want, or whether your applying for the job just to have something while you look for a professorship or curatorial-level position. That is also in addition to the obvious concerns as to how well you could do the job. You may be very familiar with systematics, but would you know about best practices, preventive conservation, and legal record-keeping?
Some of these aspects can be learned through on-the-job training, some you can teach yourself through reading appropriate publications, but ultimately experience, credentials and whatever knowledge you bring with you matter most. As mentioned by others, everyone?s path is different, and museums vary a lot. Natural History museums, more specifically, vary a lot. They differ in size, resources, and what is expected of the position (beyond keeping track of the stuff).
I?m a vertebrate paleontologist, but stopped my education in the discipline with my MSc. At that time I had to decide if I wanted to pursue a PhD, change careers, or find another way into museum work, which is really what I had always wanted to do. I had practical experience with collections, and happened to be at KU, which has a wonderful Museum Studies MA program. I decided to go that route, and pursued and earned a MA in Museum Studies there. It worked out well for me, as I ended up in a medium-size institution in a collections management position that oversees not just paleontology, but all other Natural History collections within. I am fairly sure my degrees in both, Paleontology and Museum Studies, helped me get the job, as I was prepared in both subject knowledge of the largest collections in the NH bureau, and knew how to manage most of the rest thanks to my Museum Studies degree.
That said, not having a PhD has limited my options. Large museums like the Field in Chicago, for example, require a PhD for their collection management positions. While I have the training, more than enough coursework, and practical experience, plus publications (which granted, are few precisely because I am in a Museum that emphasizes education over research, and my job is management), I cannot apply to such jobs because I don?t have a PhD. I have also been offered post docs and been asked to be in doctoral dissertation committees, but have had to decline for not meeting the requirement of having a PhD.
So, it can come down to opportunities and goals. What is your ultimate career goal? What credentials and experience will that job require? If all you want to do is break in to the field and retain that initial job, a single degree may suffice. If you want to advance and move up with experience, you may need another credential as well. Balance is always good, and the more you have and can show, the better, but it is an investment of time and money (Museum Studies masters degrees are usually 2 years, but some places offer 1 year programs). It helps to have a goal to chart a roadmap, but always be prepared to alter course as needs change.

Rod

Rodrigo Pellegrini
Registrar, Natural History Bureau
New Jersey State Museum
PO Box 530
Trenton, NJ 08625-0530
USA

Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.state.nj.us<mailto:Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.state.nj.us>
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Benjamin Ehrman
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 7:36 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification

*** CAUTION ***

This message came from an EXTERNAL address (nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>). DO NOT click on links or attachments unless you know the sender and the content is safe.
New Jersey State Government Employees Should Forward Messages That May Be Cyber Security Risks To PhishReport at cyber.nj.gov<mailto:PhishReport at cyber.nj.gov>.

Greetings all,

I was wondering if someone who has researched paleoecology (with respect to vertebrate paleontology) in their graduate program can qualify for a position as a collections manager, museum curator, lab technician, or similar positions?

Are MSc or Phd degrees preferred?

I have a masters degree and am interested in a PhD, and was wondering what sort of PhD programs would be ideal for this career path? Are there any other recommendations you would make for someone seeking that career path?

Regards,
Ben
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/24c5fd7d/attachment.html>

From FURTHD at si.edu  Thu Nov 16 13:50:52 2023
From: FURTHD at si.edu (Furth, David)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 18:50:52 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
In-Reply-To: <SA9PR09MB5840B068B0236ABEF52EACE2A0B0A@SA9PR09MB5840.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA9PR09MB5840B068B0236ABEF52EACE2A0B0A@SA9PR09MB5840.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR12MB39529CED00B042E14E99596EA3B0A@MN2PR12MB3952.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Nice discussion.  I agree with much of what has been said, including Rodrigo.

I started in collections management of entomological collections about 50 years ago during my graduate degree programs.  Since then collections management has morphed into a true profession.  Previously people just did what they learned along the way from their prof3ssors and others on the job, but that did not really incorporate best practices.

Yes, now there are some really good museum studies programs and anyone considering working in the museum world should take these as they are able.  However, while such programs cover the generalities of museums and museum management, they do not deal with discipline-specific management, which are quite different among disciplines.  Having some specific training, e.g., graduate degrees, and research experience helps this a lot.  Afterall, in most cases, one is managing research collections and having knowledge specific to that field is very important.

Anecdotally, I used to manage the entomological collections at the Museum of Comparative Zoology (Harvard University) and my boss was Prof. Edward O. Wilson.  One day Ed and I were talking in his office and he said, "They call me the Curator, but you are really the Curator".  He recognized that managing collections was truly a profession and that the real work in the collections was being done by collections managers.

Beginning in about 2014 for entomology we have been teaching workshops in best practices of entomological collections management that is subsidized by the U.S. National Science Foundation (mostly for student stipends).  The most recently have 25 in-person and 25 virtual attendees.  We have trained almost 200 potential collections managers from many countries; some participants already had many years in the field.  There is no other place to learn entomology collections management.  Possibly other disciplines should consider similar approaches.

David G. Furth, Ph.D.
Collections Manager Emeritus
Department of Entomology
National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C.  USA
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Pellegrini, Rodrigo [DOS] <Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.nj.gov>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 11:47 AM
To: Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification


External Email - Exercise Caution

In my opinion, it?s not really one or the other, but both.

Most Museum Studies programs will cross train you to manage collections in different disciplines, but few have expertise in all. If you were to get a Museology or Museum Studies degree at an institution that only really has a Fine Arts expertise, and your goal is to manage a Natural History collection, it wouldn?t really help you much landing a job you want.

On the other hand, if you have Academic degrees and experience, but no training or experience in collections management or registration, you wouldn?t be my first choice if I was hiring for a management position. My concerns would be whether a collections management job is really what you want, or whether your applying for the job just to have something while you look for a professorship or curatorial-level position. That is also in addition to the obvious concerns as to how well you could do the job. You may be very familiar with systematics, but would you know about best practices, preventive conservation, and legal record-keeping?

Some of these aspects can be learned through on-the-job training, some you can teach yourself through reading appropriate publications, but ultimately experience, credentials and whatever knowledge you bring with you matter most. As mentioned by others, everyone?s path is different, and museums vary a lot. Natural History museums, more specifically, vary a lot. They differ in size, resources, and what is expected of the position (beyond keeping track of the stuff).

I?m a vertebrate paleontologist, but stopped my education in the discipline with my MSc. At that time I had to decide if I wanted to pursue a PhD, change careers, or find another way into museum work, which is really what I had always wanted to do. I had practical experience with collections, and happened to be at KU, which has a wonderful Museum Studies MA program. I decided to go that route, and pursued and earned a MA in Museum Studies there. It worked out well for me, as I ended up in a medium-size institution in a collections management position that oversees not just paleontology, but all other Natural History collections within. I am fairly sure my degrees in both, Paleontology and Museum Studies, helped me get the job, as I was prepared in both subject knowledge of the largest collections in the NH bureau, and knew how to manage most of the rest thanks to my Museum Studies degree.

That said, not having a PhD has limited my options. Large museums like the Field in Chicago, for example, require a PhD for their collection management positions. While I have the training, more than enough coursework, and practical experience, plus publications (which granted, are few precisely because I am in a Museum that emphasizes education over research, and my job is management), I cannot apply to such jobs because I don?t have a PhD. I have also been offered post docs and been asked to be in doctoral dissertation committees, but have had to decline for not meeting the requirement of having a PhD.

So, it can come down to opportunities and goals. What is your ultimate career goal? What credentials and experience will that job require? If all you want to do is break in to the field and retain that initial job, a single degree may suffice. If you want to advance and move up with experience, you may need another credential as well. Balance is always good, and the more you have and can show, the better, but it is an investment of time and money (Museum Studies masters degrees are usually 2 years, but some places offer 1 year programs). It helps to have a goal to chart a roadmap, but always be prepared to alter course as needs change.



Rod



Rodrigo Pellegrini

Registrar, Natural History Bureau

New Jersey State Museum

PO Box 530

Trenton, NJ 08625-0530

USA



Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.state.nj.us<mailto:Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.state.nj.us>

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Benjamin Ehrman
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 7:36 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification



*** CAUTION ***

This message came from an EXTERNAL address (nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>). DO NOT click on links or attachments unless you know the sender and the content is safe.
New Jersey State Government Employees Should Forward Messages That May Be Cyber Security Risks To PhishReport at cyber.nj.gov<mailto:PhishReport at cyber.nj.gov>.



Greetings all,



I was wondering if someone who has researched paleoecology (with respect to vertebrate paleontology) in their graduate program can qualify for a position as a collections manager, museum curator, lab technician, or similar positions?



Are MSc or Phd degrees preferred?



I have a masters degree and am interested in a PhD, and was wondering what sort of PhD programs would be ideal for this career path? Are there any other recommendations you would make for someone seeking that career path?



Regards,

Ben
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/9527aa68/attachment.html>

From prc44 at drexel.edu  Thu Nov 16 14:36:59 2023
From: prc44 at drexel.edu (Callomon,Paul)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 19:36:59 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR12MB39529CED00B042E14E99596EA3B0A@MN2PR12MB3952.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA9PR09MB5840B068B0236ABEF52EACE2A0B0A@SA9PR09MB5840.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
 <MN2PR12MB39529CED00B042E14E99596EA3B0A@MN2PR12MB3952.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR01MB5220485EE3A8EE4C7F1AD63AC3B0A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>

>From my own experience, I would say that a scientific collections manager needs the following skills in addition to a sound (and current) knowledge of the taxonomy of all groups she or he oversees. These are not normally expected of PhD-level researchers:


  *   Knowledge of building operations, especially HVAC, drainage and electrical installations
  *   Knowledge of the chemistry of preserved materials, at least at a basic level, including diagnosing decay, mold and other no-nos.
  *   Health and safety regulations, especially if students and/or minors are in the collections, including current certifications where appropriate
  *   Imaging ability, including macro- and micro-photography
  *   Knowledge of current federal and international rules regarding shipping, importing and exporting wildlife and hazardous materials
  *   Speaking ability, especially to general audiences such as donors, trustees, students and potential volunteers
  *   Knowledge of PowerPoint, Excel, and whatever database the institution uses (or how to build one, if they don't yet...)
  *   Experience with safely handling live dingbats, gadflies and delusional wizards, some of whom wield considerable power.

The age when someone like me - BA in design from a polytechnic - could become a collection manager on sheer charm alone is probably over. Still, the majority of our productive colleagues in malacology are "amateurs," and several of the ones I know could do a decent job running a collection.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/4573b6ef/attachment.html>

From FURTHD at si.edu  Thu Nov 16 15:55:39 2023
From: FURTHD at si.edu (Furth, David)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 20:55:39 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fw: Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager
 qualification
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR12MB39529CED00B042E14E99596EA3B0A@MN2PR12MB3952.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SA9PR09MB5840B068B0236ABEF52EACE2A0B0A@SA9PR09MB5840.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
 <MN2PR12MB39529CED00B042E14E99596EA3B0A@MN2PR12MB3952.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR12MB3952ECCB1BE7BF2E42665BD3A3B0A@MN2PR12MB3952.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>


________________________________
From: Furth, David <FURTHD at si.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 1:50 PM
To: Pellegrini, Rodrigo [DOS] <Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.nj.gov>; Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification

Nice discussion.  I agree with much of what has been said, including Rodrigo.

I started in collections management of entomological collections about 50 years ago during my graduate degree programs.  Since then collections management has morphed into a true profession.  Previously people just did what they learned along the way from their prof3ssors and others on the job, but that did not really incorporate best practices.

Yes, now there are some really good museum studies programs and anyone considering working in the museum world should take these as they are able.  However, while such programs cover the generalities of museums and museum management, they do not deal with discipline-specific management, which are quite different among disciplines.  Having some specific training, e.g., graduate degrees, and research experience helps this a lot.  Afterall, in most cases, one is managing research collections and having knowledge specific to that field is very important.

Anecdotally, I used to manage the entomological collections at the Museum of Comparative Zoology (Harvard University) and my boss was Prof. Edward O. Wilson.  One day Ed and I were talking in his office and he said, "They call me the Curator, but you are really the Curator".  He recognized that managing collections was truly a profession and that the real work in the collections was being done by collections managers.

Beginning in about 2014 for entomology we have been teaching workshops in best practices of entomological collections management that is subsidized by the U.S. National Science Foundation (mostly for student stipends).  The most recently have 25 in-person and 25 virtual attendees.  We have trained almost 200 potential collections managers from many countries; some participants already had many years in the field.  There is no other place to learn entomology collections management.  Possibly other disciplines should consider similar approaches.

David G. Furth, Ph.D.
Collections Manager Emeritus
Department of Entomology
National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D.C.  USA
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Pellegrini, Rodrigo [DOS] <Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.nj.gov>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 11:47 AM
To: Benjamin Ehrman <benjaminaehrman at gmail.com>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification


External Email - Exercise Caution

In my opinion, it?s not really one or the other, but both.

Most Museum Studies programs will cross train you to manage collections in different disciplines, but few have expertise in all. If you were to get a Museology or Museum Studies degree at an institution that only really has a Fine Arts expertise, and your goal is to manage a Natural History collection, it wouldn?t really help you much landing a job you want.

On the other hand, if you have Academic degrees and experience, but no training or experience in collections management or registration, you wouldn?t be my first choice if I was hiring for a management position. My concerns would be whether a collections management job is really what you want, or whether your applying for the job just to have something while you look for a professorship or curatorial-level position. That is also in addition to the obvious concerns as to how well you could do the job. You may be very familiar with systematics, but would you know about best practices, preventive conservation, and legal record-keeping?

Some of these aspects can be learned through on-the-job training, some you can teach yourself through reading appropriate publications, but ultimately experience, credentials and whatever knowledge you bring with you matter most. As mentioned by others, everyone?s path is different, and museums vary a lot. Natural History museums, more specifically, vary a lot. They differ in size, resources, and what is expected of the position (beyond keeping track of the stuff).

I?m a vertebrate paleontologist, but stopped my education in the discipline with my MSc. At that time I had to decide if I wanted to pursue a PhD, change careers, or find another way into museum work, which is really what I had always wanted to do. I had practical experience with collections, and happened to be at KU, which has a wonderful Museum Studies MA program. I decided to go that route, and pursued and earned a MA in Museum Studies there. It worked out well for me, as I ended up in a medium-size institution in a collections management position that oversees not just paleontology, but all other Natural History collections within. I am fairly sure my degrees in both, Paleontology and Museum Studies, helped me get the job, as I was prepared in both subject knowledge of the largest collections in the NH bureau, and knew how to manage most of the rest thanks to my Museum Studies degree.

That said, not having a PhD has limited my options. Large museums like the Field in Chicago, for example, require a PhD for their collection management positions. While I have the training, more than enough coursework, and practical experience, plus publications (which granted, are few precisely because I am in a Museum that emphasizes education over research, and my job is management), I cannot apply to such jobs because I don?t have a PhD. I have also been offered post docs and been asked to be in doctoral dissertation committees, but have had to decline for not meeting the requirement of having a PhD.

So, it can come down to opportunities and goals. What is your ultimate career goal? What credentials and experience will that job require? If all you want to do is break in to the field and retain that initial job, a single degree may suffice. If you want to advance and move up with experience, you may need another credential as well. Balance is always good, and the more you have and can show, the better, but it is an investment of time and money (Museum Studies masters degrees are usually 2 years, but some places offer 1 year programs). It helps to have a goal to chart a roadmap, but always be prepared to alter course as needs change.



Rod



Rodrigo Pellegrini

Registrar, Natural History Bureau

New Jersey State Museum

PO Box 530

Trenton, NJ 08625-0530

USA



Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.state.nj.us<mailto:Rodrigo.Pellegrini at sos.state.nj.us>

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Benjamin Ehrman
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 7:36 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Nhcoll-l] Graduate studies and Curator/collections manager qualification



*** CAUTION ***

This message came from an EXTERNAL address (nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>). DO NOT click on links or attachments unless you know the sender and the content is safe.
New Jersey State Government Employees Should Forward Messages That May Be Cyber Security Risks To PhishReport at cyber.nj.gov<mailto:PhishReport at cyber.nj.gov>.



Greetings all,



I was wondering if someone who has researched paleoecology (with respect to vertebrate paleontology) in their graduate program can qualify for a position as a collections manager, museum curator, lab technician, or similar positions?



Are MSc or Phd degrees preferred?



I have a masters degree and am interested in a PhD, and was wondering what sort of PhD programs would be ideal for this career path? Are there any other recommendations you would make for someone seeking that career path?



Regards,

Ben
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/6bb22b80/attachment.html>

From Heath.Garner at ttu.edu  Thu Nov 16 17:25:56 2023
From: Heath.Garner at ttu.edu (Garner, Heath)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 22:25:56 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] looking for 2ml cryo vials
Message-ID: <SN7PR06MB726300D79828EDB3094C43C086B0A@SN7PR06MB7263.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi all,

For those of you who collect tissues and use 1.8ml - 2ml cryo vials, which brand and style of vials do you currently use?


Thanks!


Heath J. Garner

Curator of Collections

Museum of Texas Tech University

Natural Science Research Laboratory

3301 4th Street

Lubbock, TX 79415

(806) 742-2486

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/2cbbc3a3/attachment.html>

From keogh026 at umn.edu  Thu Nov 16 17:58:11 2023
From: keogh026 at umn.edu (Sean Keogh)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:58:11 -0600
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] looking for 2ml cryo vials
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR06MB726300D79828EDB3094C43C086B0A@SN7PR06MB7263.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR06MB726300D79828EDB3094C43C086B0A@SN7PR06MB7263.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJft8nN3DZ26Qj-LRmz4DMCBaNxWttLgKLsMFVyfNfGbVE_-8g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Heath,

We currently use these Cryo-Lok Cryogenic Vials
<https://www.emsdiasum.com/cryo-lok-cryogenic-vials> from Electron
Microscopy Sciences and previously used Cryo-Store vials from Perfector
Scientific <https://www.perfector.com/d_cryo/cryo.html>.

Cheers,
Sean
______________________________
*Current Address:*
Sean Keogh, Ph.D. (he/him)
Collections Manager, Invertebrates
O: 312.665.7818

Field Museum
1400 S. Lake Shore Dr.
Chicago, IL 60605


On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 4:26?PM Garner, Heath <Heath.Garner at ttu.edu> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> For those of you who collect tissues and use 1.8ml - 2ml cryo vials, which
> brand and style of vials do you currently use?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Heath J. Garner
>
> Curator of Collections
>
> Museum of Texas Tech University
>
> Natural Science Research Laboratory
>
> 3301 4th Street
>
> Lubbock, TX 79415
>
> (806) 742-2486
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/ced08fc9/attachment.html>

From jldunnum at unm.edu  Thu Nov 16 18:16:28 2023
From: jldunnum at unm.edu (Jonathan Dunnum)
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 23:16:28 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] looking for 2ml cryo vials
In-Reply-To: <CAJft8nN3DZ26Qj-LRmz4DMCBaNxWttLgKLsMFVyfNfGbVE_-8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN7PR06MB726300D79828EDB3094C43C086B0A@SN7PR06MB7263.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAJft8nN3DZ26Qj-LRmz4DMCBaNxWttLgKLsMFVyfNfGbVE_-8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY4PR0701MB38280676F531A717BD5D62A5D9B0A@CY4PR0701MB3828.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hey Heath,
We use cryovials from Greiner-One. Liquid N2 safe, don't leach. Pricing is about $112/case of 500 with our University account,

https://shop.gbo.com/en/usa/products/bioscience/covid-19/covid-19-cryo-vials/126263.html


______________________________________________________________

Jonathan L. Dunnum Ph.D. (he, him, his)
Senior Collection Manager
Division of Mammals, Museum of Southwestern Biology
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131
(505) 277-9262
Fax (505) 277-1351

Chair, Systematic Collections Committee, American Society of Mammalogists
Latin American Fellowship Committee, ASM

MSB Mammals website: http://www.msb.unm.edu/mammals/index.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MSBDivisionofMammals

Shipping Address:
Museum of Southwestern Biology
Division of Mammals
University of New Mexico
CERIA Bldg 83, Room 204
Albuquerque, NM 87131
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Sean Keogh <keogh026 at umn.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 3:58 PM
To: Garner, Heath <Heath.Garner at ttu.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] looking for 2ml cryo vials

Some people who received this message don't often get email from keogh026 at umn.edu. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

  [EXTERNAL]

Hi Heath,

We currently use these Cryo-Lok Cryogenic Vials<https://www.emsdiasum.com/cryo-lok-cryogenic-vials> from Electron Microscopy Sciences and previously used Cryo-Store vials from Perfector Scientific<https://www.perfector.com/d_cryo/cryo.html>.

Cheers,
Sean
______________________________
Current Address:
Sean Keogh, Ph.D. (he/him)
Collections Manager, Invertebrates
O: 312.665.7818

Field Museum
1400 S. Lake Shore Dr.
Chicago, IL 60605


On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 4:26?PM Garner, Heath <Heath.Garner at ttu.edu<mailto:Heath.Garner at ttu.edu>> wrote:

Hi all,



For those of you who collect tissues and use 1.8ml - 2ml cryo vials, which brand and style of vials do you currently use?





Thanks!



Heath J. Garner

Curator of Collections

Museum of Texas Tech University

Natural Science Research Laboratory

3301 4th Street

Lubbock, TX 79415

(806) 742-2486



_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231116/6b948270/attachment.html>

From vmathis at flmnh.ufl.edu  Fri Nov 17 07:34:20 2023
From: vmathis at flmnh.ufl.edu (Mathis,Verity L)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 12:34:20 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] looking for 2ml cryo vials
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR06MB726300D79828EDB3094C43C086B0A@SN7PR06MB7263.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR06MB726300D79828EDB3094C43C086B0A@SN7PR06MB7263.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SA1PR22MB4212675D073B9C4AF385DC08ECB7A@SA1PR22MB4212.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Hey Heath
We have been using the Nunc cryo tubes from Fisher Scientific (1.8 ml, ext thread), part # 375418.  With our university pricing they are currently $186.52 for a pack of 450.   Seeing Jon?s supplier, I think the next time we go tube shopping we will keep that in mind, much better pricing and get more per pack too.  So thanks for asking this! ?

all my best
Verity

******************************
Verity L. Mathis, Ph.D.
Mammal Collections Manager
Florida Museum of Natural History
University of Florida
1659 Museum Road
Gainesville FL 32611
Phone: (352) 273-2114
Email: vmathis at flmnh.ufl.edu<mailto:vmathis at flmnh.ufl.edu>
FLMNH Mammals Website: https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/mammals/
Google Scholar: https://tinyurl.com/vlmathis
Google Scholar for FLMNH Mammal Collection: https://tinyurl.com/flmnh-mammals


From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Garner, Heath
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 5:26 PM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] looking for 2ml cryo vials

[External Email]
Hi all,

For those of you who collect tissues and use 1.8ml - 2ml cryo vials, which brand and style of vials do you currently use?


Thanks!

Heath J. Garner
Curator of Collections
Museum of Texas Tech University
Natural Science Research Laboratory
3301 4th Street
Lubbock, TX 79415
(806) 742-2486

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231117/bff1ac9c/attachment.html>

From kderieg at nhmu.utah.edu  Fri Nov 17 11:35:32 2023
From: kderieg at nhmu.utah.edu (Katrina Derieg)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:35:32 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] looking for 2ml cryo vials
In-Reply-To: <CY4PR0701MB38280676F531A717BD5D62A5D9B0A@CY4PR0701MB3828.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR06MB726300D79828EDB3094C43C086B0A@SN7PR06MB7263.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAJft8nN3DZ26Qj-LRmz4DMCBaNxWttLgKLsMFVyfNfGbVE_-8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY4PR0701MB38280676F531A717BD5D62A5D9B0A@CY4PR0701MB3828.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <PH8PR11MB68782855695526832F7F1CA8EBB7A@PH8PR11MB6878.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Heath,
We use Simport 2ml vials (T310-2A). They have a silicone washer which is good for fluids that aren?t frozen, e.g. most of our tissues are in EtOH stored at -20C, but these vials also work for flash-frozen tissues.

Here is the supplier website: https://www.simport.com/en/products/203-t310.html#/141-volume-2_ml_self_standing
But we buy them on Amazon ~$300 for a case of 1000 vials: https://a.co/d/1gmHZQv

Echoing Verity, I may be looking into the supplier that MSB uses; that?s a good price.

Katrina Derieg
Vertebrate Zoology Collections Manager
Natural History Museum of Utah (UMNH)
301 Wakara Way
Salt Lake City, Utah 84108
Email: kderieg at nhmu.utah.edu<mailto:kderieg at nhmu.utah.edu>
Mobile: (801) 707-4819 | Office: (801) 587-5787
she/her

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Jonathan Dunnum
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 4:16 PM
To: Garner, Heath <heath.garner at ttu.edu>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] looking for 2ml cryo vials

Hey Heath,
We use cryovials from Greiner-One. Liquid N2 safe, don't leach. Pricing is about $112/case of 500 with our University account,

https://shop.gbo.com/en/usa/products/bioscience/covid-19/covid-19-cryo-vials/126263.html


______________________________________________________________

Jonathan L. Dunnum Ph.D. (he, him, his)
Senior Collection Manager
Division of Mammals, Museum of Southwestern Biology
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131
(505) 277-9262
Fax (505) 277-1351

Chair, Systematic Collections Committee, American Society of Mammalogists
Latin American Fellowship Committee, ASM

MSB Mammals website: http://www.msb.unm.edu/mammals/index.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MSBDivisionofMammals

Shipping Address:
Museum of Southwestern Biology
Division of Mammals
University of New Mexico
CERIA Bldg 83, Room 204
Albuquerque, NM 87131
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Sean Keogh <keogh026 at umn.edu<mailto:keogh026 at umn.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 3:58 PM
To: Garner, Heath <Heath.Garner at ttu.edu<mailto:Heath.Garner at ttu.edu>>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] looking for 2ml cryo vials

Some people who received this message don't often get email from keogh026 at umn.edu<mailto:keogh026 at umn.edu>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

  [EXTERNAL]
Hi Heath,

We currently use these Cryo-Lok Cryogenic Vials<https://www.emsdiasum.com/cryo-lok-cryogenic-vials> from Electron Microscopy Sciences and previously used Cryo-Store vials from Perfector Scientific<https://www.perfector.com/d_cryo/cryo.html>.

Cheers,
Sean
______________________________
Current Address:
Sean Keogh, Ph.D. (he/him)
Collections Manager, Invertebrates
O: 312.665.7818

Field Museum
1400 S. Lake Shore Dr.
Chicago, IL 60605


On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 4:26?PM Garner, Heath <Heath.Garner at ttu.edu<mailto:Heath.Garner at ttu.edu>> wrote:

Hi all,



For those of you who collect tissues and use 1.8ml - 2ml cryo vials, which brand and style of vials do you currently use?





Thanks!



Heath J. Garner

Curator of Collections

Museum of Texas Tech University

Natural Science Research Laboratory

3301 4th Street

Lubbock, TX 79415

(806) 742-2486


_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231117/73832c1a/attachment.html>

From davidpshorthouse at gmail.com  Sun Nov 19 22:26:16 2023
From: davidpshorthouse at gmail.com (Shorthouse, David)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 22:26:16 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] People identifiers "roundtrip" workshop
In-Reply-To: <CAG+8Wb85ZUymVZFiGNQFrpGsPy2_9WbxZVUcR7g9doC-VBQXpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG+8Wb85ZUymVZFiGNQFrpGsPy2_9WbxZVUcR7g9doC-VBQXpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG+8Wb_5yOtAYx_YU2m-8860-jAqzcUShXh1fLzJCqMycxgCHg@mail.gmail.com>

> On Dec 6, 2023 13:00 ? 17:00 UTC there will be a free, online workshop
> for collections data managers, collections management system
> developers, and anyone with an interest in applying persistent and
> unique identifiers to the people's names in collections data. See
> https://bit.ly/cms-roundtrip to register.

The agenda for this event is now posted at
https://bit.ly/cms-roundtrip-agenda. All SPNHC folk are welcome.

David

From Andrew.Haycock at museumwales.ac.uk  Mon Nov 20 04:38:00 2023
From: Andrew.Haycock at museumwales.ac.uk (Andrew Haycock)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 09:38:00 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: ALLANOL/EXTERNAL - Digital Morphology Workshop -
 Closing date soon!
In-Reply-To: <LO4P265MB4210541989B592CE4FD80CC592B5A@LO4P265MB4210.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <LO4P265MB4210541989B592CE4FD80CC592B5A@LO4P265MB4210.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <LO0P123MB6539AB282D16B72E27A0259CCDB4A@LO0P123MB6539.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Apologies for cross-posting

Many thanks,

Kind regards
Andrew

From: The Geological Curators Group mailing list <GEO-CURATORS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK> On Behalf Of Emma Nicholls
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 10:45 AM
To: GEO-CURATORS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: ALLANOL/EXTERNAL - Digital Morphology Workshop - Closing date soon!

Dear all,

The registration deadline for GCG's fantastic Digital Morphology Workshop is coming up fast, Friday 24th November.

The workshop will provide participants with training in cutting-edge methods for creating virtual models of whole organisms, including both fossil and living species.

10am-5pm, 11th December 2023, hosted by Oxford University Museum of Natural History. For further details and to register, please see our website<https://www.geocurator.org/events/161-digital-morphology-workshop>.

Please forward the attached flier to anyone you think may be interested. Any questions, let me know!

With best wishes,

Emma
Chair of the Geological Curators Group

---

Dr Emma Nicholls

she/her

Collections Manager ? Earth Collections (Vertebrate Palaeontology)



Oxford University Museum of Natural History

Parks Road, Oxford, OX1 3PW, UK | +44 (0)1865 272953  ?  @morethanadodo  ?  www.oumnh.ox.ac.uk<http://www.oumnh.ox.ac.uk/>

________________________________

To unsubscribe from the GEO-CURATORS list, click the following link:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=GEO-CURATORS&A=1
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231120/d09249b5/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: GCG Digital Morphology Workshop.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 557748 bytes
Desc: GCG Digital Morphology Workshop.pdf
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231120/d09249b5/attachment-0001.pdf>

From Andrew.Haycock at museumwales.ac.uk  Mon Nov 20 04:40:04 2023
From: Andrew.Haycock at museumwales.ac.uk (Andrew Haycock)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 09:40:04 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: GCG notice of Winter Seminar and 50th AGM - Don't
 forget to register.
In-Reply-To: <LO0P123MB4252850A361045C25BF345BAADB7A@LO0P123MB4252.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <LO0P123MB4252A851ABD26383625E174DADCDA@LO0P123MB4252.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <LO4P265MB4210FC287012D9FB76DFB5B692CDA@LO4P265MB4210.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <LO0P123MB4252CCA93605E2E1C00F7580ADCDA@LO0P123MB4252.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <LO0P123MB42524D2CFA4D7F8B49C4C873ADD3A@LO0P123MB4252.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <CAAWe8=SROGZ3mzpCpMpQn-KfNT5sv45oRQ+Qpj-zVPCiPBSdOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <LO0P123MB425280A8ABF406FB660327D7ADD7A@LO0P123MB4252.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <LO0P123MB42522D4F01E051C3F0E490C0ADA0A@LO0P123MB4252.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <LO0P123MB42529EA5A9EF5D91EA8633ABADA0A@LO0P123MB4252.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <LO0P123MB4252850A361045C25BF345BAADB7A@LO0P123MB4252.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <LO0P123MB65390D05E1C6D9C5823F0358CDB4A@LO0P123MB6539.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Apologies for cross-posting.

Many thanks,

Kind regards
Andrew

From: Cindy Howells <Cindy.Howells at museumwales.ac.uk>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 4:01 PM
To: Cindy Howells <Cindy.Howells at museumwales.ac.uk>
Subject: GCG notice of Winter Seminar and 50th AGM - Don't forget to register.



Dear GCG members and friends,

Just a quick reminder to register asap for our forthcoming ONLINE seminar on Building bridges between collectors and museums' Events - The Geological Curators Group (geocurator.org)<https://www.geocurator.org/events>. Please check on our events page (nearer the time) for updates and timings.

 We now have over a dozen excellent speakers lined up during the day, and will finish with a discussion session where we hope that we can make a little progress towards improving communications between museums and collectors, and ideally finding out what museums still need to do. We hope to hear from many of you during this session - with positive ideas.



If anyone has any questions or discussion points they would like to raise in advance, then please send these on to me (membership at geocurator.org<mailto:membership at geocurator.org>) and we can use those as a basis for how we proceed.



The GCG AGM will be held in the afternoon (and is free to attend) on the 28th November. All are welcome to attend; however, please note that only paid up GCG members can vote. The GCG committee currently has four vacancies; Equity, Diversity and Inclusion Coordinator, Communications Coordinator, Web Coordinator Assistant, and an open position as an Ordinary Member. The role descriptions can be found here<https://www.geocurator.org/committee/146-getting-involved-with-gcg>. If you would like to join our merry band of volunteers, please get in touch.

With very best wishes,



Cindy

(on behalf of the GCG committee)




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231120/f57c1220/attachment.html>

From jpandey at aibs.org  Mon Nov 20 11:23:38 2023
From: jpandey at aibs.org (Jyotsna Pandey)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 11:23:38 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Graduate Students: Apply for the 2024 AIBS Emerging
 Public Policy Leadership Award
In-Reply-To: <CAOuC=0GxjEGmOhv6_8XD9ThkSG9exsdcGGDvqHauLLnZeAF31w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOuC=0Gw3kbR+Yu_h_rFay8niwHvswER1EjXiuJkVu_oybJXnw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOuC=0GxjEGmOhv6_8XD9ThkSG9exsdcGGDvqHauLLnZeAF31w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOuC=0GLCYMRiLLCms7RWvK=EO12Vd8nup7Wqwxndp3jP8surw@mail.gmail.com>

*Please share this announcement with interested graduate students*

Are you a science graduate student looking to make a difference in science
policy and funding? The American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS) is
now accepting applications for the 2024 Emerging Public Policy Leadership
Award. This award recognizes graduate students in the biological sciences
who are demonstrating an interest and aptitude for working at the
intersection of science and policy.

Recipients of the AIBS Emerging Public Policy Leadership Award receive:

   - *A trip to Washington, DC*, to participate in the AIBS Congressional
   Visits Day, an annual event where scientists meet with lawmakers to
   advocate for federal investment in the biological sciences, with a primary
   focus on the National Science Foundation. The event will be held over three
   days in the spring of 2024 (likely in April). Domestic travel and hotel
   expenses are paid for the winners.
   - *Policy and communications training*, including information on the
   legislative process, trends in federal science funding, and how to engage
   with policymakers and the news media.
   - *Meetings with congressional policymakers* to discuss the importance
   of federal investment in the biological sciences.
   - *A one-year online subscription* to the journal BioScience.

The 2024 award is open to U.S. citizens and U.S. permanent residents
enrolled in a graduate degree program in the biological sciences, science
education, or a closely allied field. Applicants should have a demonstrated
interest in and commitment to science policy and/or science education
policy. Prior recipients are not eligible for the award.

Applications are due by 05:00 PM Eastern Time on January 17, 2024.  Learn
more: https://www.aibs.org/news/2023/231106-call-for-eppla-2024#subheader
___________________
Jyotsna Pandey, Ph.D.
Director of Public Policy
American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS)
AIBS website: www.aibs.org
Follow AIBS on Twitter! @AIBSbiology <https://twitter.com/aibsbiology>

-- 
This message is confidential and should only be read by its intended 
recipients.?
If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and 
delete all copies.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231120/52dd9b20/attachment.html>

From Andrew.Haycock at museumwales.ac.uk  Tue Nov 21 06:43:08 2023
From: Andrew.Haycock at museumwales.ac.uk (Andrew Haycock)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2023 11:43:08 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] FW: ALLANOL/EXTERNAL - Symposium on Toarcian
 Palaeobiology - First Circular
In-Reply-To: <DU0PR03MB9446CE8CAC709A16CBDD576C9ABBA@DU0PR03MB9446.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DU0PR03MB9446CE8CAC709A16CBDD576C9ABBA@DU0PR03MB9446.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <LO0P123MB6539138A748AB42F533B0953CDBBA@LO0P123MB6539.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

For interest,

Many thanks,

Kind regards
Andrew

From: The Geological Curators Group mailing list <GEO-CURATORS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK> On Behalf Of Meghan Jenkinson
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2023 10:29 AM
To: GEO-CURATORS at JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: ALLANOL/EXTERNAL - Symposium on Toarcian Palaeobiology - First Circular

[A Toarcian marine crocodile illustrated by James McKay]

Symposium on Toarcian Palaeobiology

Bath (UK)

17th - 20th June 2024

We are pleased to announce the forthcoming conference dedicated to all aspects of Toarcian palaeobiology, to be held from 17th - 20th June 2024 at the Bath Royal Literary and Scientific Institution (UK).

Please find the First Circular attached which gives further details about the event. Alternatively, you can visit www.geocurator.org/events<http://www.geocurator.org/events> for more information.

Please feel free to pass this circular on to colleagues and students who may be interested.

Meghan Jenkinson, Crispin Little (University of Leeds), Matt Williams (Bath Royal Literary and Scientific Institution), Mark Evans (British Antarctic Survey), and the Geological Curators Group.

All correspondence to Meghan Jenkinson (eemj at leeds.ac.uk<mailto:eemj at leeds.ac.uk>)

________________________________

To unsubscribe from the GEO-CURATORS list, click the following link:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=GEO-CURATORS&A=1
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231121/60b1bb5d/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Toarcian Steneosaurus crop2.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1452676 bytes
Desc: Toarcian Steneosaurus crop2.jpg
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231121/60b1bb5d/attachment-0001.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: First Circular - Symposium on Toarcian Palaeobiology.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 502853 bytes
Desc: First Circular - Symposium on Toarcian Palaeobiology.pdf
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231121/60b1bb5d/attachment-0001.pdf>

From vanessa.pitusi at uit.no  Fri Nov 17 05:04:19 2023
From: vanessa.pitusi at uit.no (Vanessa Pitusi)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:04:19 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
In-Reply-To: <6555B7A1020000B3000BDADC@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
References: <SVZP279MB0796DFA05EE1A3A1321BFEEBECB1A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <BL0PR01MB52202E961CFAC9006994CC1AC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <DM5PR0102MB3397DE33DAFC5808DBE3EA6BDCB1A@DM5PR0102MB3397.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <CH3PR12MB8187F7B1B61F0E0DFE34B3A3BFB1A@CH3PR12MB8187.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <BL0PR01MB522049760027CDBBB6CFFCBDC3B1A@BL0PR01MB5220.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <6555B7A1020000B3000BDADC@zuv12.verwaltung.uni-halle.de>
Message-ID: <SVZP279MB0796820D00839A768C636E98ECB7A@SVZP279MB0796.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear everyone,

Thank you all for your insightful tips, links, and stories!

I have a lot to go by now and feel slightly more confident to open the jars. Also, good (and re-assuring) to know there are some suppliers that can make them.

Hope you all have a good weekend! ?

Kind regards,
Vanessa

From: Joachim H?ndel <Joachim.Haendel at zns.uni-halle.de>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 7:33 AM
To: prc44 at drexel.edu; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu; shoobs.1 at osu.edu; HawksC at si.edu; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>
Subject: Aw: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!


Yes, Paul - Alconox is great!
It takes a little time but it penetrates well and frees the stopper.
It also dissolves any hardened gasket grease.
(Alconox contains more than trisodium phosphate)



Another note: yes - the white sealing compound at the photos could be linseed oil putty.
Or gutta-percha, a rubbery, caoutchouc-like substance made from the  coagulated sap  Sapotaceae-Tree (for example Palaquium gutta)

Originally used in dentistry - and golf balls were made from it.
It was a common sealing agent for specimen storage jars in the 20th century.
However, the elastomer becomes hard and brittle and crumbly over time and no longer seals the jars.
To open it, simply use a sharp knife and slide the blade under the lid.

All the best
Joachim

--
Joachim Haendel

Center of Natural History Collections
of the Martin Luther University (ZNS)
- Entomological Collection -

Domplatz 4
D-06099 Halle (Saale)
Germany

Phone:  +49 345 - 55 26 447
Email: joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de<mailto:joachim.haendel at zns.uni-halle.de>

>>> "Callomon,Paul" <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>> 15.11.2023, 16:34 >>>
Just to add two points: I?m not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as ? apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen ? the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.

Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates
________________________________
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170

From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu<mailto:HawksC at si.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu<mailto:shoobs.1 at osu.edu>>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no<mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!


External.
Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.

Cathy

Catharine Hawks
Museum Conservator
NMNH Smithsonian Institution

From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Shoobs, Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no<mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

External Email - Exercise Caution
Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.

You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.

The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it?s not about brute strength, it?s more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it?ll generally lift right up.

For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.

-Nate

-
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.edu<http://mbd.osu.edu/>
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no<mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ?

Hi Vanessa,



Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don?t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack ? I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.



Paul Callomon

Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates

________________________________

Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University

1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170



From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!



External.

Hi!



I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!



I work at the Troms? Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.

Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.



Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?



Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).



Kind regards,

Vanessa Pitusi



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>



Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!KGKeukY!2L7y9e3Lmae2j3haSMB4_7CRtBHdsA1iD2Eqw86b4b0NSUrJdsPIwTAZxPMe8o_-5TqxXOTJ_cFCyBBd$>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231117/17d64ae9/attachment.html>

From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 22 10:35:20 2023
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2023 15:35:20 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fluid teaching course venues in UK sought
Message-ID: <993F5AC4-E093-47B8-B9B7-ABB23A18F4A2@btinternet.com>

I am once again looking for venues to hold the four-day fluid course in the UK and preferably in the South.

The course requires laboratory facilities preferably, that can accommodate up to 15 persons, or a similar venue with good ventilation and fume extraction, plenty of fluid-preserved specimens that require treatment and who can supply the required fluids and some lab equipment to be available for use. In return, part of the collection will be conserved and you will have up to 3 spaces for staff members to attend free of charge.  

Please advise me off-list: couteauifin at btinternet.com <mailto:couteauifin at btinternet.com> 
Thanks.  
Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.



From cwthomp at umich.edu  Mon Nov 27 08:00:00 2023
From: cwthomp at umich.edu (Cody Thompson)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2023 08:00:00 -0500
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Fwd: 3D Imaging Award Opportunity- Western North
 American Mammals - DUE 10JAN2024
In-Reply-To: <CAFXGjdo5mBEzdsyL1ifSOM5Yqp_5O0Kxt=-0PQw0L4w-puvgsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFXGjdo5mBEzdsyL1ifSOM5Yqp_5O0Kxt=-0PQw0L4w-puvgsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMaB+fGR7oSpqGASkDegjZntdmtx-WvuO40pxtYevQTbqqTBSg@mail.gmail.com>

For those interested in utilizing CT data, please see the RFP below for
funding.  The UMMZ Mammal Division is participating in the Ranges project,
and I would be happy to chat with anyone about proposal options with our
collections.

Take care,
Cody

Cody W. Thompson, PhD
Mammal Collections Manager
& Associate Research Scientist
University of Michigan
Museum of Zoology
3600 Varsity Drive
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48108
Office: (734) 615-2810
Fax: (734) 763-4080
Email: cwthomp at umich.edu
Website: codythompson.org

*Please click here to support the UMMZ Mammal Division, its collections,
and research mission!!!*
<https://lsa.umich.edu/ummz/mammals/donate-to-the-mammal-division.html>


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Bryan McLean <bryansmclean at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 1:50?PM
Subject: 3D Imaging Award Opportunity- Western North American Mammals - DUE
10JAN2024
To: <MAMMAL-L at si-listserv.si.edu>


*External Email - Exercise Caution*
Mammalogists, please take a minute to consider this opportunity for
yourself, your labs, or collaborators who are conducting morphometric
and/or trait-based research on mammals of Western North America. I am happy
to answer any questions off-thread.

---

The Ranges Digitization Network (https://ranges-network.org/
<https://ranges-network.org/>)
is pleased to announce the first call for the Ranges Imaging Mini-Awards.

If you are faculty, staff, postdoc, student or researcher affiliated with
an U.S. institution and need financial support to produce imagery via ?CT
scanning, diceCT, laser scanning or photogrammetry for your mammal
trait-focussed research, then this award opportunity may be for you.

Applications are now being accepted. Learn more at (
http://www.ranges-network.org/awards/
<http://www.ranges-network.org/awards/>
).

Ranges Imaging Mini-Awards will enable researchers to extend their current
research by collecting internal and potentially complex trait data at the
intraspecific level that can be integrated with other specimen-level data
digitized by Ranges, such as reproduction, habitat, geographic origins, or
time. Projects focused on any aspect of morphological variation are
welcome. Ranges, funded by NSF (DBI-2228385), seeks to digitize traits from
over one million mammal specimens from 19 natural history museums, with a
focus on western North America. The project will allow researchers to build
better baselines for biodiversity and improve predictions of how mammals
respond to changing environments to address major digitization challenges,
expand the utility of specimens and use them to create new scientific
knowledge.

DEADLINE: Applications must be submitted by January 10, 2024, 11:59pm
Pacific Time.

-Bryan

Bryan McLean
Assistant Professor
University of North Carolina Greensboro
Greensboro, NC 27402
http://www.mclean-lab.org/
<http://www.mclean-lab.org/>
*> explore UNCG Mammal
<https://arctos.database.museum/SpecimenSearch.cfm?guid_prefix=UNCG%3AMamm>
and Parasite
<https://arctos.database.museum/SpecimenSearch.cfm?guid_prefix=UNCG%3APara>
Collections
via Arctos <*
*> My working hours may not be your working hours. Please do not feel
obligated to respond outside your normal working time. <*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231127/e676e26d/attachment.html>

From couteaufin at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 28 04:36:15 2023
From: couteaufin at btinternet.com (Simon Moore)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2023 09:36:15 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Call for authors
Message-ID: <34DF65B5-C09B-4136-B0BD-F6B6A85556BA@btinternet.com>

Call for authors.  I have been asked by Routledge Publishers to be the Editor for a book on the Conservation of Natural History Specimens, so I am seeking specialists to author chapters on the subjects listed below.  This also applies if you?re writing a PhD thesis or dissertation on some aspect of this subject, so please let me know. I am aiming to get the book more-or-less completed by the latter part of 2024.   Please contact Simon Moore on: couteaufin at btinternet.com for further details.  Thanks.

 Historical overview.

 Preventive conservation - applicable to all of the categories below. 
General management of such collections (including pest control / IPM and storage).

Main categories would be:
Zoology ? Taxidermy. Pinned and papered Insects.
Fluid-preserved specimens (including containers, labels etc)
Osteology.
Botany and Fungi - Herbarium technology and fluid-preserved specimens, management. Geology ? Palaeontology.
Petrology (including astral bodies).
Mineralogy.
Microscope slides: applying to all of the above.

Condition reporting for all of the above.

Useful suppliers list for tools, other equipment and consumables.

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences.

From abentley at ku.edu  Tue Nov 28 17:57:43 2023
From: abentley at ku.edu (Bentley, Andrew Charles)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2023 22:57:43 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] U.S. Culture Collection Network (USCCN) webinar Thursday
 14 December @11:00am EST
Message-ID: <SN7PR01MB802093463583B57E22CBB008B2BCA@SN7PR01MB8020.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Join the U.S. Culture Collection Network (USCCN) on Thursday 14 December @11:00am EST to learn about the network's activities, how you can get involved and how USCCN can help you increase the visibility and access of your microbial culture collections.

Register here: https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/5880365641962135130

Created in 2012, the NSF-founded USCCN brings together scientists working with collections of living microbes. USCCN engages scientists across multiple disciplines to work toward addressing challenges and needs shared by all microbial collection managers and users.

In particular, USCCN is currently developing a registry of U.S. microbe collections ? an easily accessible and searchable database of plant associated, microbial culture collections from universities and government agencies worldwide. The goal of this registry is to facilitate a greater access to collections of all types.

Participants
? Rick Bennett, University of Kentucky, USCCN Steering Committee member
? Neha Potnis, Auburn University, USCCN Steering Committee member
? Kirk Broders, curator of the USDA-ARS Culture Collection (NRRL), USCCN participant

Thank you!
Isabelle

Isabelle Caugant
Communications Director
International Phytobiomes Alliance
Telephone +1.916.840.8801<tel:%28301%29%20221-8636>
E-mail: caugant at eversoleassociates.com<mailto:leach at eversoleassociates.com>


    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>
USA<x-apple-data-detectors://9/>

Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
    A  :             A  :             A  :
 }<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<(((_?>.,.,.,.}<)))_?>
    V                V                V

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231128/615f007f/attachment.html>

From cr at wildlifeart.org  Wed Nov 29 11:03:27 2023
From: cr at wildlifeart.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Rungius_Raisonn=C3=A9?=)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 09:03:27 -0700
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Brooklyn Museum Habitat Groups
Message-ID: <CAPDE658bEzOD3v17oV1BjY3iJQRZEQuR-Te-w+QcT26cTHYsew@mail.gmail.com>

I am working on a catalogue raisonne of the paintings of Carl Rungius.

He painted two diorama backgrounds for the Brooklyn Institute of Arts and
Sciences, now the Brooklyn Museum, in the late 1920s. In the Natural
History world, he is best known for his background painting for the moose
diorama at the American Museum of Natural History in Manhattan.

The Brooklyn habitat groups were disassembled by the 1950s, but I have had
no luck finding out if the contents of the dioramas were disposed of or
sent elsewhere. I would love to find out if any of you has done any work on
the Brooklyn habitat groups and could help with this query. Quality
historic photos or maybe a lead on where these dioramas ended up would be
great.

I have been to the Brooklyn Museum library and archives and have poor
quality images of each diorama, but no other solid information. I can share
these images if anyone's interested - email me at cr at wildlifeart.org.

He worked on the backgrounds for the Newfoundland Caribou group and the
Alaskan Brown Bear group.

The Caribou group background was also worked on by his sister - Elizabeth
Rungius Fulda.

*Brooklyn Museum Quarterly* 15, N. 2, April, 1928

"Notes and Accessions: Carl Rungius, one of the foremost landscape and big
game painters in America, has completed work on the background painting for
the large habitat group of the Alaskan brown bear. This is a great
improvement over the former means of displaying it as the exhibit up to now
has been shown only in a four-wall glass case. *The setting shows the bears
against a background of the Pavlof Volcano in Alaska*. The composition is
cleverly arranged to bring the lines from the mountains down into the
foreground so as to give the effect of distance. Two of the bears are shown
fighting standing on their hind legs while other specimens are arranged
around them on the rocks on the shore of a lake.? (p. 70)

Many thanks,

Adam

-- 
*Adam Duncan Harris, Ph.D. | Grainger/Kerr Director of the Carl Rungius
Catalogue Raisonn**?*
cr at wildlifeart.org* | *Rungius Raisonn? at wildlifeart.org
<https://www.wildlifeart.org/collection/carl-rungius-catalogue-raisonne>
307-690-0932
*An Independent Project of the National Museum of Wildlife Art of the
United States*

PO Box 6825, Jackson, WY 83002
2820 Rungius Rd, Jackson, WY 83001
*Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/WildlifeArtJH>*  |  *Twitter
<https://twitter.com/WildlifeArtJH>*  |  *Instagram
<https://instagram.com/wildlifeartjh/>*  |  *Tripadvisor
<http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g60491-d103233-Reviews-National_Museum_of_Wildlife_Art-Jackson_Jackson_Hole_Wyoming.html>*
*WildlifeArt.org <http://wildlifeart.org/>*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231129/fa2fc6eb/attachment.html>

From rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu  Wed Nov 29 20:20:45 2023
From: rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu (Rob Robins)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2023 01:20:45 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Job posting: Florida Museum Collections Manager II:
 Lepidoptera
Message-ID: <PH0PR22MB379191EE3E1613E76B76B5AA8182A@PH0PR22MB3791.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Hello,
The Florida Museum is seeking a Lepidoptera Collections Manager. Job description is as below, link to application contains requirements, qualifications, expected salary, other relevant details.

https://explore.jobs.ufl.edu/en-us/job/529413/flmnh-collections-manager-ii

The Florida Museum (FM) is hiring an experienced full-time Collections Manager (CM) for McGuire Center for Lepidoptera and Biodiversity (MGCL) within the Department of Natural History. The Lepidoptera collection contains c. 10 million specimens used for research and education, and the Collections Manager is responsible for ensuring its integrity and accessibility. Achieving these goals involves: ensuring that the collection is efficiently organized and accessible, including curating all parts of the collection to a high level; integrating new material; coordinating with staff, students, and volunteers to digitize and database specimens and manage the Lepidoptera collections database; maintaining an appropriate collections environment to reduce pests; managing loan requests and donations; assisting visiting researchers and students that need to access the collections; and participating in outreach events. The CM will have the opportunity to conduct independent or collaborative research and publish results. This is a full-time, 12-month appointment. While the anticipated hiring rank is collections manager II, senior levels may be considered based upon experience or the need of the unit.



EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER

The University is committed to non-discrimination with respect to race, creed, color, religion, age, disability, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, marital status, national origin, political opinions or affiliations, genetic information and veteran status in all aspects of employment including recruitment, hiring, promotions, transfers, discipline, terminations, wage and salary administration, benefits, and training.


Please feel free to disseminate widely.


Best wishes,


Rob


Robert H. Robins

Collection Manager

Division of Ichthyology

[FLMNH Fishes logo email small]

Florida Museum

1659 Museum Rd.

Gainesville, FL 32611-7800

Office: (352) 273-1957

rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu<mailto:rhrobins at flmnh.ufl.edu>



The UF Fish Collection is moving:

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/



Search the Collection:

http://specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/



Search samples suitable for dna analysis:

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231130/64c13353/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Outlook-FLMNH Fish
Type: image/jpg
Size: 4940 bytes
Desc: Outlook-FLMNH Fish
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231130/64c13353/attachment.jpg>

From jda26 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Nov 30 13:02:29 2023
From: jda26 at cam.ac.uk (Jack Ashby)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2023 18:02:29 +0000
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Director of the University Museum of Zoology, Cambridge
Message-ID: <LO2P265MB27496F524CE587FABA1D00C1E282A@LO2P265MB2749.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear all
We are currently recruiting for the exciting position of Director of the University Museum of Zoology, Cambridge, held in conjunction with the Professorship of Evolutionary Biology and Ecology.
More details are available here: https://www.jobs.cam.ac.uk/job/44142/

Please do pass this on to anyone you think may be suited to this opportunity.
All the best
Jack

Assistant Director
University Museum of Zoology
Downing Street
Cambridge
CB2 3EJ
+44 (0)1223 761344<tel:+441223761344>
http://www.museum.zoo.cam.ac.uk/

Twitter:  @JackDAshby<https://twitter.com/JackDAshby>
Twitter: @ZoologyMuseum<https://twitter.com/ZoologyMuseum>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231130/66278832/attachment.html>