[Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!

Wed Nov 15 11:42:17 EST 2023

... nobody should say our job would be boring ...

Am 15.11.2023 um 17:39 schrieb Simon Moore:

I forgot to mention that Dixon glass (UK) also supply both the ground-glass stoppered jars and the flange jars with the flat circular lids.

Interesting to hear of Dirk’s slight misadventure, rather dramatic way to get the lid off!

With all good wishes, Simon

Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.

www.natural-history-conservation.com<http://www.natural-history-conservation.com>

On 15 Nov 2023, at 16:31, Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de><mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de> wrote:

... an alternative can be to put the entire cylinder in a (smaller) drum that is filled with warm water to heat of the entire cylinder evenly. But again, mind any external labels when doing this.

Paul's very thoughtful comment on the tension in the (historic) glassware is substantiated, especially because the bottom usually is thicker, but thins towards the walls and often is unevenly blown (might be different for those jars that where blown into moulds).

Also, if the pressure gets too high inside, the stopper can be propelled off the jar; I had once one where I was lucky to get my head out of the way on time, when the neck expanded and released to jammed stopper that went up 2 metres. Luckily I caught it again and it hit not the floor.

With best wishes
Dirk

Am 15.11.2023 um 16:34 schrieb Callomon,Paul:

Just to add two points: I’m not sure that heating the fluid to increase internal pressure is a good idea, as – apart from possibly upsetting the chemistry of the specimen – the jar might crack at its thinnest point before the lid lifts.
Also, the penetrating power of trisodium phosphate is extraordinary. A teaspoon of powder (e. g. Alconox) in a liter of water is a very effective detergent, and just soaking a jar with a stuck lid in that might well do the trick.
 Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
 From: Hawks, Catharine <HawksC at si.edu><mailto:HawksC at si.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:42 AM
To: Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1 at osu.edu><mailto:shoobs.1 at osu.edu>; Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: RE: Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 External.
Sometimes it works well just to put the jar in a low try of warm water to slightly warm the bottom. The resulting pressure change inside the jar will loosen the lid.
 Cathy
 Catharine Hawks
Museum Conservator
NMNH Smithsonian Institution
 From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Shoobs, Nate
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:13 AM
To: Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>; Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 External Email - Exercise Caution
Vanessa,
Others (especially EU collections folks who deal with more of these jars)  may have better tricks, but I have, in the past, used warm water and acetone in cases where some adhesive putty or wax has been used. I let it pool on the lid of the jar for a while. The acetone will cool the jar by evaporating, so you may have to alternate them. If you can leave the jar in the sink, run warm water continuously over it for 5 or 10 minutes as Paul suggested, that usually works.
 You can scrape any sealant/wax out of the perimeter with a sharp dental pick or similar tool in order to increase the penetration of your warm water or other solvent and decrease the friction between the lid and the jar.
 The real trick is rocking/wiggling the lid back and forth  gently. You want to use a decent amount of force, but it’s not about brute strength, it’s more about making the lid move that first little bit.
Once it budges at all, it’ll generally lift right up.
 For future reference -- for clamp top jars with gaskets of any kind, puncturing the seal with a putty knife or awl is the easiest method to open them.
 -Nate
 -
Nathaniel F. Shoobs, Curator of Mollusks
College of Arts & Sciences Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University
Museum of Biological Diversity
1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212
614-688-1342 (Office)
mbd.osu.eduFrom: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <prc44 at drexel.edu><mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 9:02:39 AM
To: Vanessa Pitusi <vanessa.pitusi at uit.no><mailto:vanessa.pitusi at uit.no>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 Hi Vanessa, Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don’t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack –
Hi Vanessa,
 Stubborn tapered ground-glass lids like those you show often loosen if you simply pour hot water over them, as the jar neck expands further than the lid. Don’t make the water too hot, though, as the glass could crack – I find hot water from the tap is usually enough to do the trick.
 Paul Callomon
Collection Manager, Malacology and General InvertebratesAcademy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
prc44 at drexel.edu<mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170
 From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Vanessa Pitusi
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 2:42 AM
To: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Large specimen jars need opening - help!
 External.
Hi!
 I posted the following on a Facebook page for Museum collection managers and was advised to ask here for help. So, any answer would be greatly appreciated!
 I work at the Tromsø Museum (Norway), and we have numerous large and tall glasses containing specimen. The ethanol level on some of them is starting to be low, but we do not know how all of them were sealed.
Some were sealed with linseed oil putty, which I was advised to open by warming. However, some have no putty but are firmly stuck. Any advice on a good solvent to use to open those? The Internet tells me something like Xylene could do the job, but just wanted to get some more opinions.
 Secondly, does anyone based in Europe know of any suppliers that make such glasses and lids?  Photos for reference of size and lids (that I am after).
 Kind regards,
Vanessa Pitusi
 Sent from Outlook for iOS
 Sent from Outlook for iOS

_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

--
****
 Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg
 Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 – 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<http://www.leibniz-lib.de>
 --
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l

_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.

--
****

Dirk Neumann
Collection Manager, Hamburg

Postal address:
Museum of Nature Hamburg
Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
of Biodiversity Change
Dirk Neumann
Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
20146 Hamburg
+49 40 238 317 – 628
d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
www.leibniz-lib.de<imap://dneumann@webmail.leibniz-lib.de:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/INBOX/Privat/www.leibniz-lib.de>

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst

--
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany

Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20231115/7d35b810/attachment.html>