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<div>John</div>
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<div>Your example highlights perfectly the need for GUIDs. What happens when you get the same catalog number for each of he two collections in your example. By your reckoning, they would have an identical code thus producing ambiguity. A system of GUIDs
would introduce a UNIQUE string of characters no matter what, that would not contain any string of information that could be construed as repetitive. If this GUID was assigned to the object in the database and was always transmitted (in whatever format –
gift of material, deaccession, web search, portal provider) then there would be no ambiguity or resolution problems.</div>
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<div>The commonly touted triplet of information gets you part of the way there but has its flaws as already outlined.</div>
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<div>Andy</div>
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<span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V<br>
Andy Bentley<br>
Ichthyology Collection Manager<br>
University of Kansas<br>
Biodiversity Institute<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> : : <br>
A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V</span></p>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>"John O. Reiss" <<a href="mailto:John.Reiss@humboldt.edu">John.Reiss@humboldt.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a href="mailto:John.Reiss@humboldt.edu">John.Reiss@humboldt.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:John.Reiss@humboldt.edu">John.Reiss@humboldt.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, October 15, 2012 9:06 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"Thiers, Barbara" <<a href="mailto:bthiers@nybg.org">bthiers@nybg.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"Poly, William" <<a href="mailto:WPoly@calacademy.org">WPoly@calacademy.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Nhcoll-l] global unique identifiers and naturalhistory collections<br>
</div>
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<div>All-<br>
<br>
It would seem that a solution would be to develop a unique numeric collection code that would go along with (rather than replace) the traditional alphabetic one. Thus a specimen might be something like:<br>
<br>
13429 AAU 001 for Addis Addaba University specimen 001<br>
<br>
and<br>
<br>
11946 AAU 001 for Aarhus University specimen 001<br>
<br>
This would preserve the traditional information, but eliminate ambiguity. Codes would need to be assigned for collections, not institutions, because many institutions of course have more than one collection, often identified by the same code. Assigning new
numbers would probably be easier and less disruptive than trying to resolve all cases of conflict. In publications with multiple specimens from the same collection, it would only be necessary to cite the unique identifier once.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Thiers, Barbara <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:bthiers@nybg.org" target="_blank">bthiers@nybg.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Well, here is a problem with institutional codes - they overlap:<br>
<br>
AAU: ASIH = Addis Abbaba University<br>
In Index Herbariorum = Aarhus University<br>
<br>
AMNH: ASIH: American Museum of Natural History<br>
IH: Icelandic Natural History Museum, Akureyri<br>
<br>
CUP: ASIH: Charles University<br>
IH: Cornell Plant Pathology herbarium.<br>
<br>
A few are the same, though: BYU, CAS, CM.<br>
<br>
Dr. Barbara M. Thiers<br>
Director, William and Lynda Steere Herbarium<br>
Editor, Index Herbariorum<br>
The New York Botanical Garden<br>
2900 Southern Blvd.<br>
Bronx, NY 10458-5126<br>
<a href="mailto:bthiers@nybg.org">bthiers@nybg.org</a><br>
<a href="tel:718%20817%208622" value="+17188178622">718 817 8622</a><br>
<a href="tel:718%20817%208809" value="+17188178809">718 817 8809</a> (fax)<br>
Download registration form for Index Herbariorum:<br>
<a href="http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/IndexHerbariorum.asp" target="_blank">http://sciweb.nybg.org/science2/IndexHerbariorum.asp</a><br>
Follow Index Herbariorum updates on twitter: @ihupdates<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>] On Behalf Of Poly, William<br>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:34 AM<br>
To: NH-COLL listserv<br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] global unique identifiers and naturalhistory collections<br>
<br>
All,<br>
<br>
Expanding on what Mark just wrote, standardization of institutional codes for museums has been going on for decades:<br>
<br>
1) <a href="http://www.biodiversitycollectionindex.org/static/index.html" target="_blank">
http://www.biodiversitycollectionindex.org/static/index.html</a><br>
<br>
2) Leviton, A.E., R.H. Gibbs, Jr., E. Heal, and C.E. Dawson. 1985. Standards in herpetology and ichthyology: Part I. Standard symbolic codes for institutional resource collections in herpetology and ichthyology. Copeia 1985(3): 802-832.<br>
<br>
3) Leviton, A.E. and R.H. Gibbs, Jr. 1988. Standards in herpetology and ichthyology. Standard symbolic codes for institution resource collections in herpetology and ichthyology. Supplement No. 1: additions and corrections. Copeia 1988(1): 280-282.<br>
<br>
4) <a href="http://www.asih.org/codons.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.asih.org/codons.pdf</a><br>
<br>
These acronyms and associated catalog numbers are used widely in the literature. What is the need for a new system that is "global?" Museum acronyms convey useful information that is easy to interpret, whereas a long numeric code alone or an alphanumeric
string such as "A3P578930ZBW" does not. When typos occur in long strings how does one even begin to discern the intended object? A typo in CAS 20050 as CAS 20059 can be tracked much more easily. Similarly, when a typo occurs in GPS coordinates without an
associated locality description, it's difficult or impossible to resolve.<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>] On Behalf Of Dirk Neumann [<a href="mailto:Dirk.Neumann@zsm.mwn.de">Dirk.Neumann@zsm.mwn.de</a>]<br>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:35 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:CSTURMJR@pitt.edu">CSTURMJR@pitt.edu</a><br>
Cc: NH-COLL listserv; John Deck; Nico Cellinese; <a href="mailto:tomc@cs.uoregon.edu">
tomc@cs.uoregon.edu</a>; Robert Guralnick<br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] global unique identifiers and natural history collections<br>
<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
at least for some collections unique (and published) identifiers are available (e.g. provided via the Eschmeyer Catolg of fishes @<br>
<a href="http://research.calacademy.org/redirect?url=http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/research/Ichthyology/catalog/fishcatmain.asp" target="_blank">http://research.calacademy.org/redirect?url=http://researcharchive.calacademy.org/research/Ichthyology/catalog/fishcatmain.asp</a>)<br>
<br>
It might be essential to have unique identifiers for scientific material in near future - mainly depending on how the Access Benefit Sharing will implement regulations to track down single samples to allow equitable sharing of these (genetic) resources. For
botany specimens something similar is already in place called IPEN:<br>
<a href="http://www.bgci.org/resources/ipen/" target="_blank">http://www.bgci.org/resources/ipen/</a><br>
<br>
However, it is crucial that the registration numbers are tied to collections and specimens in the collection, therefore I would rather favour to have the museum acronyms & specimen numbers included in such a code (what would be easily feasible if using a combined
alpha numeric & alphabetical coding system). Problem here surely lies with the entomological collections, which can't be individualised in near future, but in the light of ongoing barcoding campaigns one should have in mind that many modern samples (which
do have e.g. individual barcodes generated by BOLD) do have unique identifiers as soon as they are processed (this applies also for historic specimens picked form the pin)<br>
- even if the analyses fails.<br>
<br>
Definitely YES! and will be needed in near future, I fear (not because I would wish to have a unique numbering system / numbers)<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 15.10.2012 00:09, schrieb <a href="mailto:CSTURMJR@pitt.edu">CSTURMJR@pitt.edu</a>:<br>
> Curtis,<br>
><br>
> One problem that comes to mind is CMNH as an identifier.<br>
> I have seen this used for:<br>
> Carnegie Museum of Natural History ( my preference!) Cleveland Museum<br>
> of Natural History Cincinnati Museum of Natural History<br>
><br>
> It could also be used for:<br>
> Colorado (University) Museum of Natural History Canadian Museum of<br>
> Natural History.<br>
><br>
> Thus, one would have to standardize museum acronyms.<br>
><br>
>> <font face="Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"<br>
>> size="2"><div>Forgive my ignorance, as I'm new to the collections<br>
>> world, but could someone please provide more detail about what you<br>
>> are talking about exactly? What is wrong with the use of museum<br>
>> acronyms followed by numbers? Or...am I missing something? Aren't<br>
>> these "global unique identifiers"? What are the drawbacks to using<br>
>> these in the traditional manner? Also, how feasible would it be for<br>
>> all the collections to essentially renumber their entire collections<br>
>> to participate in this new system? Please help me understand what<br>
>> this discussion is<br>
>> about.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br></div><div>Curt<br>
>> is<br><br>______________________________<br><br>Curtis<br>
>> J. Schmidt<br>Zoological Collections Manager<br>Sternberg Museum of<br>
>> Natural History<br>Fort Hays State University <br>3000 Sternberg<br>
>> Drive<br>Hays, KS 67601<br><a href="tel:%28785%29%20628-5504" value="+17856285504">(785) 628-5504</a> (collections)<br>(785)<br>
>> 650-2447 (cell)<br>______________________________</div><br><br><font<br>
>> color="#990099"><span><a class="smarterwiki-linkify"<br>
>> href="<a href="mailto:-----">mailto:-----</a><a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>">-----nhcoll-l-bo<br>
>> <a href="mailto:unces@mailman.yale.edu">unces@mailman.yale.edu</a></a><br>
>> wrote: -----</span></font><div style="padding-left:5px;"><div<br>
>> style="padding-right:0px;padding-left:5px;border-left:solid black<br>
>> 2px;"><span>To: "Bentley, Andrew Charles" &lt;<a<br>
>> class="smarterwiki-linkify"<br>
>> href="mailto:<a href="mailto:abentley@ku.edu">abentley@ku.edu</a>"><a href="mailto:abentley@ku.edu">abentley@ku.edu</a></a>&gt;</span><br>From:<br>
>> Robert Guralnick <<a href="mailto:robert.guralnick@colorado.edu">robert.guralnick@colorado.edu</a>><br><span>Sent by: <a<br>
>> class="smarterwiki-linkify"<br>
>> href="mailto:<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>"><a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a></a></span><br>Date:<br>
>> 10/14/2012 01:33PM<br><span>Cc: <a class="smarterwiki-linkify"<br>
>> href="mailto:<a href="mailto:tomc@cs.uoregon.edu">tomc@cs.uoregon.edu</a>,"><a href="mailto:tomc@cs.uoregon.edu">tomc@cs.uoregon.edu</a>,</a> "NH-COLL<br>
>> listserv <a class="smarterwiki-linkify"<br>
>> href="mailto:\(<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>\)">\(<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>\)</a>"<br>
>> &lt;<a class="smarterwiki-linkify"<br>
>> href="mailto:<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>"><a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a></a><br>
>> &gt;, John Deck &lt;<a class="smarterwiki-linkify"<br>
>> href="mailto:<a href="mailto:jdeck@berkeley.edu">jdeck@berkeley.edu</a>"><a href="mailto:jdeck@berkeley.edu">jdeck@berkeley.edu</a></a>&gt;, Nico<br>
>> Cellinese &lt;<a class="smarterwiki-linkify"<br>
>> href="mailto:<a href="mailto:ncellinese@flmnh.ufl.edu">ncellinese@flmnh.ufl.edu</a>"><a href="mailto:ncellinese@flmnh.ufl.edu">ncellinese@flmnh.ufl.edu</a></a>&gt;</span><br>Subject:<br>
>> Re: %5<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:<br>
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<br>
-- <br>
<p>John Reiss<br>
Professor of Zoology<br>
Interim Curator, Vertebrate Museum<br>
Interim Director, Marine Facilities</p>
<p>Humboldt State University<br>
1 Harpst St.<br>
Arcata, CA 95521 USA</p>
<p>Office: Sci A 454A<br>
Office Hours Fall 2012: TR 11-12, F 10-12</p>
<p>Campus Phone: (707) 826-4156, Marine Lab Phone (707) 826-5827<br>
FAX: (707) 826-3201<br>
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