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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">Carrie is absolutely right that the terms of a repository
agreement can be negotiated, though the fact is that a good
repository agreement is still a repository agreement. We also
found, a few years back, that the NPS has a model terms (or at
least they did back then) and I was concerned that a park
manager who is (a) very busy dealing with dozens of different
kinds of responsibilities and (b) is rarely a scientist would
understandably take the path of least resistance and simply
follow that model agreement, knowing that it was "pre-approved"
by the NPS higher-ups. <br>
<br>
Please note this clause in the repository agreement:<br>
</font><br>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="+1">Either Party may
terminate this Agreement for default
without any legal process whatsoever by giving the other
party <b>ninety (90) days
written notice </b>of termination, effective at the end
of the ninety (90) day
period, i) f<b>or no cause</b> or ii) upon occurrence of
any of the events set forth
below, except that in the case of (c) or (d) such
termination shall occur automatically
and without the necessity of notice to the other Party.</font><o:p></o:p></p>
<br>
<br>
Sorry folks, but you don't have a 25 year agreement if one
side can unilaterally terminate it for no reason at all and
simply by giving 90 days written notice. This completely
vitiates the idea that this is a "long-term" agreement. <br>
<br>
I seriously doubt you are going to be able to negotiate this
one away!<br>
<br>
And <br>
</font></font><br>
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<!--StartFragment-->
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="+1">C.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Notwithstanding
the foregoing, the NPS may terminate this Agreement for
the convenience of the
Government, at any time, when it is determined to be in
the best interest of
the public to do so.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>[R]
shall be
notified in writing within five (5) working days
following the termination.<br>
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<font size="+1"></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<!--EndFragment-->
Bet a million you can't negotiate this one away, either. And
you have no recourse. None. There are these huge undefined
terms - "convenience of the government" and "best interest
of the public to do so." <br>
<br>
I sure do wish I owned a bridge that I could sell you.<br>
<br>
</font></font></font><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">Also note that terms that may seem reasonable are not
actually workable. Yes, the template repository agreement gives
you permission to integrate the NPS specimens into your
collections. But permission is not the issue. Practicality is
the issue. Are you going to make space and place hundreds of
individual specimens in your drawers knowing that you may
someday be called upon to retrieve and return some or all of
them?<br>
<br>
You are also required to provide proof of employee liability
insurance. Does this mean insurance against employee negligence?
Theft? Injury to third parties? Do you know? Further, they
require that it be provided by a "responsible company or
companies..." How are you supposed to determine if an insurance
company is responsible? And many state agencies self-insure. If
yours is one of them, well then you can't meet this term,
whatever it actually means. Do you even ask about this term
before you sign this repository agreement?<br>
<br>
And think about yourself and your collection in terms of the
collections community. The parks can designate in issuing
permits which repository specimens should go to. Well good if
you are a repository, I guess, assuming you want all those
specimens being sent your way even though they may have no
rational scientific relationship to your collection. But what if
you are a researcher and you are being told you are to send your
specimens to a given museum for no reason other than it happens
to be a signatory to a repository agreement? </font>That,
unfortunately, is a side-effect of your being a repository, even
though obviously in signing the repository agreement, it was never
your intent to interfere with the use and location of specimens
collected by others who have no affiliation with your institution.
<br>
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Ellen<br>
<br>
</font></font>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ellen Paul
Executive Director
The Ornithological Council
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ellen.paul@verizon.net">ellen.paul@verizon.net</a>
"Providing Scientific Information about Birds<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.nmnh.si.edu/BIRDNET">"
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/BIRDNET"</a>
</pre>
On 11/8/12 11:28 AM, Carrie Eaton wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:509BDDC9.1050700@geology.wisc.edu" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Ellen - Oh absolutely, 25-30 years is
not "long" for the life of the collection, but a better option
for smaller museums with limited staffing who are unlikely to be
given the 'indefinite' option. The loaning and destructive
sampling stipulations may also be easier to negotiate for a
geology/paleontology collection than a biological one. My
colleague on campus who works in the Anthropology collection was
able to negotiate curating fees for all of their protected
specimens - but things that fall under NAGPRA are considered
much higher priority than, say, a drawer of invertebrate
fossils. We have an incredibly small staff (as I am the only
full time collections person) so the cataloging project would
have been overwhelmingly cumbersome had we not achieved a
cooperative financial agreement with the Park Service - likely
also a rare occurrence. I do agree with you that the
interactions with different park managers are not totally
uniform from park to park or institution to institution, which
is interesting, considering it is their aim to get to a unified
national catalog someday. A larger museum with a larger staff
and collection might be able to put down their foot and hold out
for more control over their NPS specimens, but my primary point
was that (depending on the park, I suppose) the terms of the
"repository agreement" are in fact negotiable and can be
rewritten to satisfy your own collections management needs - if
you ask for it! If you have your results from your '02 survey -
I would be incredibly interested in reading them.<br>
best,<br>
Carrie<br>
<br>
On 11/8/2012 10:14 AM, Ellen Paul wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:509BDA68.2080108@verizon.net" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">Thanks, Carrie, for this valuable info. Just a couple
of observations:<br>
<br>
1. As all agreed at that 2008 summit I wrote about, in
museum collection terms, 25-30 years is not long-term. In
people terms, yes, but in terms of the collection itself, it
is not. <br>
2. Your repository agreement seems to be unusual, especially
with regard to loans and destructive sampling. <br>
3. The problem with the repository agreement generally is
that regardless of length, it ultimately allows the removal
and relocation of specimens or entire collections without
any say on the part of the museum. One of the key areas of
discussion at the 2008 summit is that the location of a
specimen is based on the underlying reason for its
collection and on the scientific purpose for collections
generally. Mere physical proximity to a given park, or the
desire to put all specimens from a given park in one
location would result in reduction of the integrity of the
collection for which it was originally collected. So the
most obvious - a series intended to examine clinal
variation will have specimens from locations along the
cline, some of which may have been collected from one or
more parks. If someone now decides that they want all
specimens collected from those parks to be in one location,
then these series are disrupted. Conversely, if the purpose
of the collecting was to document the biodiversity of the
park, then removal of one or more specimens for the purpose,
say (I am obviously making this up) of creating a collection
of all birds found in national parks will undermine the
integrity of the collection that documented the biodiversity
of the park. <br>
4. The designation of institutions as federal repositories
is part of what has fueled this worry I described. The
rumors have been circulating for years that the NPS was
going to either build its own warehouses - and yes, I use
that term deliberately - or designate certain museums in
various regions of the country - and consolidate the
specimens collected on units of public land managed by the
National Park Service - in those centers. <br>
5. I can't speak to your institution's policies or
differences between geology and biological collections, but
most biological collections actually prohibit long-term or
even indefinite loans. Call it a repository agreement, but
it's really a long-term loan. <br>
<br>
Generally, the repository agreements place a fairly stiff
burden on the museums to provide a substantial service but
offer no remuneration for those services. Yes, remuneration
is clearly NOT the primary purpose of housing and curating a
collection, but the point is that acting as a repository is
limiting in various ways. Starting with integration of the
specimens. If you may have to give it all back in X years,
are you going to integrate hundreds or thousands of
specimens into your collections or are you going to keep it
segregated? <br>
<br>
I didn't receive Peter's email from yesterday, but this
issue of NPS numbers has been part of the discussion from
the beginning and it would be very burdensome for most
collections to go back and attach a second label to each of
the specimens and then record that second number. It also
flies in the face of current practice, which is to assign
unique identifiers (can of worms, I know). There are simpler
ways to deal with this than to add labels/tags and new
numbers. Add a field in the permanent record that identifies
the item as having been collected in a NP. <br>
<br>
Yes, over the years, the park-level people have been very
reasonable, even if their practices were not conforming to
NPS policy. If I had a dime for every time I've been told
"the manager at Park X told us not to worry about it, as far
as he was concerned, we own it and they will never ask for
it back and we can do whatever we want with it." Some of you
may remember that back when I was with AIBS, I did a survey
on this - 2002. Yes, 10 years ago. I will try to dig up the
results, but as best I can recall, about 1/2 the respondents
were surprised to learn that there was even an issue,
because the manager at the park where they worked told them
something to this effect. <br>
<br>
Ellen<br>
</font>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ellen Paul
Executive Director
The Ornithological Council
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ellen.paul@verizon.net">ellen.paul@verizon.net</a>
"Providing Scientific Information about Birds<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.nmnh.si.edu/BIRDNET">"
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/BIRDNET"</a>
</pre>
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<title></title>
<address><font face="Georgia"><i><b>Carrie Eaton</b></i></font></address>
<address><font face="Georgia"><i><b>Curator, UW Geology Museum</b></i></font></address>
<address><font face="Georgia"><i>1215 W. Dayton Street</i></font></address>
<address><font face="Georgia"><i>Madison, WI 53706</i></font></address>
<address><font face="Georgia"><i>(608) 262.4912</i></font></address>
<address><b><font color="#3333ff" face="Georgia"><i>carrie@geology.wisc.edu</i></font></b></address>
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