<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:10pt"><div>In addition to all the great suggestions given already, I should add to point out that if specimens were taken and separated physically out from original specimens before original specimens were catalogued and assigned with a unique collection number, a collector's number or a field number or a preparator's number series is often primarily used for inventory tracking and cross-referencing purposes until all associated specimens are eventually catalogued in respective collections. It is always important to capture those numbers in databases when new acquisitions are involved.</div><div><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Mariko</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10px;">Mariko Kageyama</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">Collections Manager, Vertebrate Zoology<br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif;
background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">University of Colorado Museum of Natural History</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">Boulder, CO 80309-0265</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10px;">mariko.kageyama@colorado.edu<br></span></div><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span><div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span><div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:
x-small;"> </span><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "Kennes, Lesley RBCM:EX" <LKENNES@royalbcmuseum.bc.ca><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "'nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu'" <nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:31 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Databasing Specimens Collected from Other Specimens<br> </font> </div> <br>
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--></style><div><div class="yiv1193653260WordSection1"><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;">We have fields for associated specimens that can include other specimens collected at the same time, e.g. mated pairs parent child, fetus, ecto-parasites etc. These fields contain the catalogue number and collection and relationship of the specimens as well as a remarks field that can cover notes concerning date ranges etc.</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;"> </span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;">The main issue is that whatever procedure you follow you should be consistent and also make sure detailed notes on the event, specimens etc.
are included so that years later some poor person has a hope of figuring out what happened. (we have stuff that goes back over a hundred years and documentation can be sketchy)</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;"> </span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;">I agree that in the case of a fungus that you do need to make sure that it is part of the original collection event and not a subsequent infestation.</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;">______________________________________________________________________________________________</span></b><span style="color:black;"></span></div><div
class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;">Lesley Kennes </span></b><span style="color:black;"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;">Collection Manager, Birds and Mammals | Archives, Collections & Knowledge</span><span style="color:black;"> <br><br></span><span style="color:black;"><img id="yiv1193653260_x0000_i1026" alt="https://sales.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/logo.png" height="30" width="156"></span><span style="color:black;"><br></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;">675 Belleville Street, Victoria, BC Canada V8W 9W2 </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",
"sans-serif";color:black;"> </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:black;"><br></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;">T 250 387-1216 </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;"><br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:LKENNES@royalbcmuseum.bc.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:LKENNES@royalbcmuseum.bc.ca"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;">LKENNES@royalbcmuseum.bc.ca</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;"> | </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:blue;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;">www.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",
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"sans-serif";color:black;"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;"> </span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:black;"> </span></div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"> nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Glotzhober<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:12 AM<br><b>To:</b> Gregory Schneider; Lewis-Gentry, Genevieve<br><b>Cc:</b>
nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Databasing Specimens Collected from Other Specimens</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"> </div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Our database allows for multiple numbers associated with an object. In such a case, we could assign a new catalog number to the fungus found growing on the insect, but also add the original collection number for the insect. This cross-references the fungus to the insect. I would also go back to the original record for the insect, and annotate it with a cross-reference to the fungus collection number. That way both items are cross-referenced and someone working with either collection is made aware of the connection between the two objects.</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Not that I consider this any more “correct” than any of the other answers supplied to this query – but it is another manner to handle to situation, which in my mind seems to work.</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Bob Glotzhober</span></div><div style="border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in;"><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Robert C. Glotzhober</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Senior Curator of Natural History</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Ohio Historical Society</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">800 E. 17<sup>th</sup> Ave.</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Columbus, Ohio 43211-2474</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">Ph. 614-298-2054</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">e-Mail: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bglotzhober@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:bglotzhober@ohiohistory.org">bglotzhober@ohiohistory.org</a> </span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US">
</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Gregory Schneider<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:05 AM<br><b>To:</b> Lewis-Gentry, Genevieve<br><b>Cc:</b> Natural History Collections Listserv (<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>)<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Databasing Specimens Collected from Other Specimens</span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-US">In my opinion, the collecting event is exactly the same. It is analogous to finding a whole identifiable specimen (ie. a lizard) in the stomach contents of a previously catalogued snake. I would catalogue the lizard separately with the same collecting data as the snake, and cross reference the new entry to the original.</span></div><div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Lewis-Gentry, Genevieve <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:glewis-g@oeb.harvard.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:glewis-g@oeb.harvard.edu">glewis-g@oeb.harvard.edu</a>>
wrote:</span></div><div><div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US">Hello everyone,</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US">We are running into an interesting collections issue for databasing in the Farlow Herbarium and we were wondering how other natural history collections are handling the issue.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US">Our example:</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US">Insect specimens were collected, identified, and stored in an entomological collection. Later, the insects were checked for a type of fungus (Laboulbeniales) and when found they were removed and mounted on permanent slides in the fungal collections. What counts as the collecting information? The original collection information for locality etc? (Which is our thought.) Who is the collector? The person who collected the insect or the person who collected the fungus? There are collector numbers for both.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div
class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US">We assume things like this across other types of natural history collections. (Birds and mites are an example we thought could exist.) We are having it happen here between our herbarium and the entomological collections in the department as well as from loans from other entomology collections who are letting us keep and deposit the fungal material here.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US">We want to have the best data we can within our system capabilities as well as match how other collections are handling this type of issue.</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US">Any thoughts, suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. I am sure that we are not the only ones with cross collections issues like this.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US">Thank you so much and let me know if you want more information.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US">Genevieve</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia", "serif";" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia", "serif";color:#7F7F7F;" lang="EN-US">=================================================<br>Genevieve Lewis-Gentry, Curatorial Assistant<br>Farlow Herbarium, Harvard University Herbaria<br>22 Divinity Ave., Cambridge, MA 02138 U.S.A.<br>Phone: <a href="http://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/" rel="nofollow">617-495-2365</a> Fax: <a href="http://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/" rel="nofollow">617-495-9484</a><br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:glewis-g@oeb.harvard.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:glewis-g@oeb.harvard.edu">glewis-g@oeb.harvard.edu</a></span><span lang="EN-US"></span></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-US"> </span></div></div></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Nhcoll-l mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l">http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l</a></span></div></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br><br clear="all"></span></div><div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">-- </span></div><div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#500050;" lang="EN-US">Greg Schneider<br>Division of Reptiles and Amphibians</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#500050;" lang="EN-US">Museum of Zoology<br>University of Michigan</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv1193653260MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#500050;" lang="EN-US">Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109-1079<br>734 647 1927 734 763 4080 (FAX)</span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana", "sans-serif";color:navy;" lang="EN-US">734 763 0740 (Biodiversity
Research Center at Varsity Drive)<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ges@umich.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:ges@umich.edu"><span style="color:#1155CC;">ges@umich.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#500050;" lang="EN-US"></span></div><div style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#500050;" lang="EN-US"></span></div><div style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;" lang="EN-US"><img id="yiv1193653260_x0000_i1025" alt="Description: Description: logocolor" border="0" height="97" width="96"></span><span
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