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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The problem with applying tapes and sheets that are not designed to be part of the closure is that it easily could lead to even more evaporation than without.
There are simply too much variables (lid type, thread, thickness/smoothness/tackiness/tear strength of tape/sheet, amount of wraps around rim/applied stretching, applied strength tightening lid, etc.) which probably lead more to failure than to success. We
used in the past Parafilm (wax-based stretch foil) and were not very enthusiastic about its overall effectiveness.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The better quality screw-cap lids are provided with a (</span><em><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;font-style:normal">PTFE</span></em><span class="st"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-faced
LDPE </span></span><em><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;font-style:normal">foam liners</span></em><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">) liner, which is fixed (glued with
EVA) to the inner side of the PP lid which seems to prevent stress damage (by wrinkling, stretching or partly displacement) to the liner when tightening the lid.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dries<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Andries J. van Dam,
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#FF8000">conservator</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><br>
<br>
Museum of Anatomy<br>
Leiden University Medical Center <br>
Building 3 (V3-32)<br>
P.O.Box 9600 <br>
2300 RC Leiden <br>
The Netherlands <br>
tel: +31 (0)71 52 68356<br>
E-mail: </span><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#0000FE"><a href="mailto:A.J.van_Dam@lumc.nl">A.J.van_Dam@lumc.nl</a><br>
</span></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Visiting address: Hippocratespad 21 </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#FF8000">Scientific associate</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
Natural History Museum London<br>
<a href="http://www.nhm.ac.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.nhm.ac.uk</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#FF8000">Directory Board member</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> ICOM-CC<br>
<u><a href="http://www.icom-cc.org/" target="_blank" title="http://www.icom-cc.org/">http://www.icom-cc.org</a>
<br>
<br>
</u></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#FF8000">Director</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> Alcomon Company<br>
<u><a href="http://www.alcomon.com/" target="_blank" title="http://www.alcomon.com/">http://www.alcomon.com</a></u></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu
[mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dirk Neumann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> dinsdag 14 januari 2014 8:32<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Simmons; nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] PTFE tape on jars<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Morning John!<br>
<br>
I think (personal impression rather than something I could proof) that deterioration follows the concept "similar dissolves in similar" (I am not sure if this literally translation of the German "Ähnliches löst sich in Ähnlichem" is common in English, too):<br>
<br>
Parafilm is a polyolefin wax which is not that stable against organic solvents, my impression is that if parafilm gets into contact with long-chained hydrophobic hydrocarbonates, especially vaseline / petroleum jelly, the parafilm wax starts to "melt" and turns
into a smeary waxy stringing substance. This type of deterioration is also observed in combination with vacuum greases.<br>
<br>
PTFE tape: we have a type of jar without threads, for these PTFE tapes failed completely. For use in combination with metal lids / threaded jars (as long as there is no way to get hold of the acid-resistant type of metal lids which have stronger liners), I
would prefer the teflon inlays which also protects the lid against corrosion / chemical reactions triggered from condensation inside the jar.<br>
<br>
Removal of old silicone grease: thanks for pasting Simon's very valuable link into this discussion! I never used silicon based greases in the collection after devastating results from my initial testing with various vacuum greases (dumping a chunk of the grease
into our denatured alcohol and comparing stability after 1 year). Since then, I always use ("my" most favoured and most appreciated) Alsirol grease produced by a small company in Bamberg, Germany. Just hope they will never run out of production, but as this
fat is food safe and of prevailled usage in small scale breweries in Upper Franconia, I am confident ;-)<br>
<br>
To remove old silicone glue, you may also use (quite drastic, but works just fine) a drilling machine with a soft & fine brass-brush-attachment turning at moderate speed. Tried this methods with large old battery jars with good results after receiving this
tip from aquarium hobbyists cutting & re-glueing large tanks. One needs to be well skilled in free-hand operating of drilling machines, especially in combination with fragile glass containers, of course, but it works pretty well and is very time efficient.
<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 13.01.2014 18:43, schrieb John E Simmons:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dirk,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your contribution to this discussion. Just to be clear, the recommended use of PTFE tape is to wrap it around the threads on the jar before the lid is applied, in order to help the lid seal better with the jar. PTFE is less
permeable to the transmission of oxygen than Parafilm.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I presume that the deterioration of parafilm that you describe is caused by contact with the old grease remaining on the glass? Do you have any idea what the chemical reaction is that causes the deterioration?<br>
<br>
The Teflon liners should work well--we can purchase several sizes of jar lids here with Teflon liners already in them.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Concerning the removal of old silicon, Simon Moore pointed out to me that you can purchase a silicon releasing agent in liquid or spray form at many hardware stores in the US and the UK. These work with the
methyl groups in silicon:<br>
<a href="http://www.dowcorning.com/content/discover/discoverchem/si-release.aspx?e=How+Silicones+Work">http://www.dowcorning.com/content/discover/discoverchem/si-release.aspx?e=How+Silicones+Work</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Since Simon alerted me to the release agent, I have used the liquid form to remove old silicon seals from glass several times--you might want to try a silicon release agent on the silicon oil you mentioned.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">--John<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 2:18 AM, Dirk Neumann <<a href="mailto:dirk.neumann@zsm.mwn.de" target="_blank">dirk.neumann@zsm.mwn.de</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Paul,<br>
<br>
we had bad results with PTFE tape because it didn't seal jars adequately even though tied thoroughly around the lids.
<br>
<br>
Parafilm as Tony suggested works much better. You can easily remove it residue-free again, but be careful if wrapping parafilm around jars that are closed with ground stoppers / glass planes & grease (e.g. old battery jars): the parafilm will dissolve quickly
into a rather sticky slime, which can hardly be removed.<br>
<br>
For twist-off jars with metal lids adding additional Teflon liners to be inserted in the lids might be an idea: colleagues in Switzerland use those with pretty good results for several years now (the website is in German, they don't offer a English version,
sorry - But from the pictures you may get an idea what those liners look like).<br>
<span lang="DE-CH" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.taxidermy.ch/p078000003.html?article_id=78000164&shop_action=detail" target="_blank">http://www.taxidermy.ch/p078000003.html?article_id=78000164&shop_action=detail</a></span>
<br>
<br>
I am not sure if these are available in the US, but these liners not only seal but also protect metal lids against evaporating moisture thus preventing them from rusting.<br>
<br>
For Le-Parfait jars etc. you can also add some high quality joint grease - but be careful and avoid any silicon based vacuum grease as it is nearly impossible to bring the silicon oil off the glasses after the silicon grease deteriorated (which happens within
few years).<br>
<br>
Hope this offers some ideas ...<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
Am 10.01.2014 22:48, schrieb Callomon,Paul:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Folks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">At least 20 years ago (before my time here), white plumbers’ tape was wrapped around the edge of the lids and onto the sides of all the bottle and jars in a certain section of our
alcohol collections. This is the PTFE tape that plumbers use to seal threads; it is thin, soft and non-adhesive. Presumably the idea was to provide a secondary vapor barrier in addition to the jar lid seal.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We are now doing long-overdue major maintenance on this collection, and are trying to assess the efficacy of this tape. I’d be very interested to hear from anyone who (a) has used
it and can show it works (b) has used it and can show it doesn’t work, or (c) who considered using it but decided not to, and why.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Paul Callomon</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<i>Collection Manager, Malacology, Invertebrate Paleontology and General Invertebrates</i></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University, Philadelphia</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA<br>
<i><a href="mailto:callomon@ansp.org" target="_blank">callomon@ansp.org</a> Tel <a href="tel:215-405-5096" target="_blank">
215-405-5096</a> - Fax <a href="tel:215-299-1170" target="_blank">215-299-1170</a></i></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nhcoll-l mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>_______________________________________________ <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>society. See <a href="http://www.spnhc.org" target="_blank">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: 089 / 8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: 089 / 8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>email: Dirk.Neumann(a)<a href="http://zsm.mwn.de" target="_blank">zsm.mwn.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Postanschrift:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Zoologische Staatssammlung München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Labor<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Münchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/" target="_blank">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>---------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B49-89-8107-111" target="_blank">+49-89-8107-111</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: <a href="tel:%2B49-89-8107-300" target="_blank">+49-89-8107-300</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>email: Dirk.Neumann(a)<a href="http://zsm.mwn.de" target="_blank">zsm.mwn.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>postal address:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Bavarian Natural History Collections<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Lab<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Muenchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 Munich (Germany)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Visit our section at:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/" target="_blank">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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_______________________________________________<br>
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<br>
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<br>
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<br>
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<br>
society. See <a href="http://www.spnhc.org" target="_blank">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: 089 / 8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: 089 / 8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Postanschrift:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Zoologische Staatssammlung München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Labor<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Münchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>---------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: +49-89-8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: +49-89-8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>postal address:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Bavarian Natural History Collections<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Lab<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Muenchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 Munich (Germany)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Visit our section at:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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