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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">... just to add one point to
DNA-samples:<br>
<br>
You can have multiple extractions (different dates, kits used,
recovered DNA-yields) from the same tissue e.g. "INST-123456.<u>077</u>"
(if "077" would be a tissue sample) - recording this adds
additional sublevels, e.g. 123456.077.001, 077.002, etc. but if
you do extractions & storage in plate scale (12 x 8 samples),
you can not assign these numbering to the plate / single wells on
the plate ... so this system fails here.<br>
<br>
Also, you may have different target genes for sequencing,
resulting in multiple samples that need encoding. This proposed
numeric system is highly error prone (copy & paste errors are
hardly to detect because of similarity of assigned IDs) as
discussed earlier in this thread.<br>
<br>
Relational linkage of various ID-formats seems to me the better
alternative, at least if DNA / tissue collections are concerned,
because it allows combination of suited procedures.<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Dirk <br>
<br>
<br>
Am 23.08.2014 01:01, schrieb Dean Pentcheff:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKMaq6E-pYPShpKYeVDk8COUBC0V-tn2U+K0Q_eLd00tx8a4kw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">[I have
just discovered that I never hit "Send" on this comment.
Sorry!]</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">How
significant my objection is would be a matter of opinion...</span>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
But here it is. What's outlined there is, in effect, a
two-level system. There are "first class" specimen IDs (e.g.
"INST-123456") and then one "derived" level (e.g.
"INST-123456.077"). This is analogous to Doug's system
described earlier.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">There
are several appealing aspects to that. One is that it's
apparent on inspection that the ".077" item is directly
descended from the "123456" item. Cool. Another is that it's
easy to gather together all the objects that came from
"INST-123456" by inspection if they're in front of you,
intermixed with other objects. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">There
are some downsides, though. One is that, in situations where
there can be multiple levels of derivation, we move to the
more generalized system as outlined by Lena above (e.g. 123456
<- 123456.077 <- 123456.077.012 <- 123456.077.012.003
...). There's an increasing problem of length and complexity
with this scheme. (This is not academic, by the way, we really
do have quite a few examples where this many or more levels of
derivation happen with objects in our collections.)</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The
particular scheme you propose also has an implicit limit to
the number of derived objects. The "-077" implies to me that
up to 999 items can be derived at a single level. Though
that's probably fine for nearly every case, I think we'd agree
that dropping one number and going with "-77" is insufficient.
So we have a nearly-always-useless "0" floating around with
every ID. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">These
are the sorts of concerns that sway me back towards a single,
numerical, opaque identifier for every "thing" that needs
tracking. It's up to a data system somewhere to keep track of
the relationships (and they can also be printed on permanent
labels where that is practical). </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>-Dean<br>
-- <br>
Dean Pentcheff<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pentcheff@gmail.com">pentcheff@gmail.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dpentche@nhm.org">dpentche@nhm.org</a></div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Colin
Favret <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ColinFavret@aphidnet.org" target="_blank">ColinFavret@aphidnet.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thank
you to everyone participating in this interesting
discussion. I'm at least relieved to know that there is
no community standard, yet, and so I'm not off kilter
having developed my own solution. As I understand it,
palaeontologists assign separate unique identifiers to
the different fossil specimens in/on a single object
(?). And Specify seeks a solution to disambiguate
"Containers" from specimens.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">But
unique identifiers referring to museum objects or
specimens are not "dumb" in the same way that they are
for localities, collection events, taxa, etc. They refer
to physical objects located in a collection that bear a
label with that unique identifier. That unique
identifier is thus part of the object retrieval process
for collection users, in addition to being for data
retrieval.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">So
can we envision a system where the unique identifier for
the 77th specimen on a microscope slide can also be used
as part of the object retrieval process? Or have we
decided that, given a unique identifier for the 77th
specimen, I'm better off having to go to the database to
reference the museum object's ID before heading into the
compactors? Does anyone have a significant objection to
the decimal INST-123456.077 to uniquely refer to the
77th specimen in/on museum object INST-123456?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks
for the continued discussion!</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Colin</div>
</font></span></div>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dirk Neumann
Tel: 089 / 8107-111
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email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de
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