<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10px"><div><span></span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_90290" dir="ltr">I don't believe it's up to individual collections workers to research the history of every land management unit - that information is readily available from the units themselves, including the history of the area prior to it changing to park/refuge/etc. The unit's archivists/collections managers/other staff should be aware of their responsibility to assist in clarifying records where they can. Even defunct units (Cycad National Monument, for example) or situations of changed stewardship (shifting public/tribal/private patchworks on reservations, for example) still have well-documented histories and current stewards of that information to keep it in public access.</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_103019" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_103020" dir="ltr">Technology and the ability to combine maps and GPS data on-site in the field are a huge benefit to modern collecting. The requirement to record and report this data improves legal validity and scientific value of specimens for both the collecting institution and the permitting land management agency. Nowadays, there should be no shrugged shoulders as to land ownership at the time of collection, particularly when it comes to legal responsibilities/trespassing concerns/etc. on the boundaries between public and private land.</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_112034" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_111590" dir="ltr">However, for specimens collected in the past, of course all museum collections have the problem of 'bad data' and 'no data' specimens. As others have said, the need to put the work in to rectify those records as much as possible is part of collections management as a whole - not an undue burden imposed by this particular request. Say, for example, a specimen may have been collected from a site prior to its inclusion within the boundary of a park/refuge/etc. The specimen locality is known, but the collecting date is not. Filling in that blank is important to resolving a slew of potential stewardship issues, and the onus is on the collecting institution to do so. This is why the request includes specimens that 'may have' been collected from public land, not just the ones previously known to have been.</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_133438" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_133437" dir="ltr">Working with the staff of the land management unit of concern is the best way to take the 'guess' out of 'educated guess', improve records and data across the board, and reduce the work required by the collecting institution.</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_140426" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_140427" dir="ltr">Michelle Pinsdorf</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_140428" dir="ltr">Fossil Preparator</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_141302" dir="ltr">Department of Paleobiology</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_140429" dir="ltr">Smithsonian Institution National Museum of Natural History</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_142177" dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:pinsdorfm@si.edu">pinsdorfm@si.edu</a></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_142178" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_90293"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_89862" style="display: block;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_89861" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_89860" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_90289" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_90288" face="Arial" size="2"> On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 12:55 PM, Ellen Paul <ellen.paul@verizon.net> wrote:</font><br></div><div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_89859"><div id="yiv1345363178"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_89858">
<div class="yiv1345363178moz-forward-container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_89857">
<div class="yiv1345363178moz-forward-container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_89856">
<div class="yiv1345363178moz-cite-prefix" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_89855">How do you know that the specific
place was within a park (or refuge, or whatever) when the
specimen was collected? Even if already declared as a
protected area, the boundaries were likely different. Most
parks and other protected areas were created and then land was
added as it became available. Many had - and still have -
inholdings. When I walk down the trails in Shenandoah National
Park, I often see signs that state that the trail will cross
through private lands, but the actual boundaries are not
marked. How do I know, then, when I collect something, if I am
inside the park boundaries or if I am on the private property?
Yes, if I have a good gps, I can check later. <br>
<br>
The first national park was created in 1916. Prior to that
time, it was part of the Wyoming and Montana territories.
Congress reserved the area for Yellowstone in 1872. In theory,
you would have to go back to the Louisiana Purchase (1803)
because that is when it became U.S. land.<br>
<br>
The first national wildlife refuge was created in 1903. Not
sure who owned it prior to the creation of the refuge. <br>
<br>
You would have to trace the history of each park, refuge, etc.
to know if it was public land at the time the specimen was
collected and then trace the acquisition of each piece of land
or change in boundaries. <br>
<br>
Why would you include something simply because the place is
now a park if it wasn't a park at the time the specimen was
collected? This is of particular concern given the stance on
ownership and the implications that ownership carries. <br>
<br>
Is "educated guess" the appropriate and accepted standard?<br>
<br>
Note that the Inspector General report that this measure
addresses states that "<span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_109999" style="font: 16px/23px Georgia, serif; color: rgb(17, 17, 17); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">...DOI says it will take 20 yrs to complete
full cataloguing." The IG says that DOI will need to
allocate resources.<br>
<br>
Yet the non-feds are supposed to do it in 2 hrs 20 minutes
and of course have loads of money and staff to do it with. <br>
</span><br>
<br>
Ellen<br>
<br>
<pre class="yiv1345363178moz-signature">Ellen Paul
Executive Director
The Ornithological Council
Email: <a class="yiv1345363178moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ellen.paul@verizon.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ellen.paul@verizon.net">ellen.paul@verizon.net</a>
"Providing Scientific Information about Birds<a class="yiv1345363178moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nmnh.si.edu_BIRDNET&d=AwMD-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=EWTwmZ4CTUaZCKneYjLS3KfoHA3-1bpo-vI8Qqbl-8M&s=8D0YYVSodWP0wrQWwOLBkFVpQP7geS-xEB-3rDksNqA&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">"
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/BIRDNET"</a>
</pre>
On 2/18/15 8:59 AM, Anita Cholewa wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110439" type="cite">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_146566" dir="ltr">In a way, this is what all the digitization
projects are seeking to do -- catalog exactly what we all
have in the collections.
<div>Currently, here we actually are entering specimen data
from lands that are now parks -- since I and others have
been to many, place names are familiar so we can make
educated guesses and when georeferencing is done, they can
be placed in or pretty close to parks.</div>
<div>Does it take more of my time and that of my
assistants. Absolutely. Is it good stewardship --
absolutely.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anita</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv1345363178gmail_extra" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110438"><br clear="all">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110445">
<div class="yiv1345363178gmail_signature" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110444">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110443" dir="ltr">__________<br>
Anita F. Cholewa, Ph.D.<br>
Curator of the UM Herbarium (MIN)<br>
and Acting Curator of Lichens <br>
J.F. Bell Museum of Natural History<br>
University of Minnesota<br>
1445 Gortner Ave<br>
ST PAUL MN 55108-1095<br>
<br>
campus mail code: 6022<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="yiv1345363178gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110437">On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 5:16 PM,
Brown, Matthew A <span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110442" dir="ltr"><<a id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110441" href="mailto:matthewbrown@utexas.edu" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:matthewbrown@utexas.edu">matthewbrown@utexas.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="yiv1345363178gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110436" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><span class="yiv1345363178" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110440">> Are you really going to take the time to
go back through your collections - every item! - to
determine what came from DOI-managed public lands -
ever - even though not georeferenced that precisely at
the time collected, even though the exact site may or
may not have been DOI-managed public land at the time?<br>
<br>
</span>Um... yes. I'd be a pretty poor steward if I
couldn't be accountable for what my institution holds in
our public trust collections.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Matthew A. Brown<br>
Head of Collections, Vertebrate Paleontology Laboratory<br>
Lecturer, Department of Geological Sciences<br>
Jackson School of Geosciences<br>
The University of Texas at Austin<br>
R7600, Austin, TX 78758<br>
Office:<a href="" rel="nofollow">(512)232-5515</a><br>
<a href="mailto:matthewbrown@utexas.edu" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:matthewbrown@utexas.edu">matthewbrown@utexas.edu</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__jsg.utexas.edu_vpl&d=AwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=hCNdCyeEgBNFdEXt8CjWWDG_NmH5ZBn_43UjIeAzVwY&s=yndnnB7HWNxUgb49cKbTGQDAzr764iQ_Svske-5mPAk&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">jsg.utexas.edu/vpl</a><br>
<span class="yiv1345363178" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_140425"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Feb 17, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Ellen Paul <<a id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_140424" href="mailto:ellen.paul@verizon.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ellen.paul@verizon.net">ellen.paul@verizon.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> I hope everyone has read or will read this
specific item because it is a big deal for museum
collections:<br>
><br>
</span>> <a id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_110450" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpo.gov_fdsys_pkg_FR-2D2015-2D02-2D03_html_2015-2D01880.htm&d=AwIF-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=nOx2v156D8uT1thUwsFwrfYvlGSuQwB5albVTXKh5v8&s=SWv4ecrUIXFG5zsWfnHrFuQJPhIv9KEo92dbsnRymkA&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpo.gov_fdsys_pkg_FR-2D2015-2D02-2D03_html_2015-2D01880.htm&d=AwIF-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=nOx2v156D8uT1thUwsFwrfYvlGSuQwB5albVTXKh5v8&s=SWv4ecrUIXFG5zsWfnHrFuQJPhIv9KEo92dbsnRymkA&e=</a><br>
><br>
> <a id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_111051" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpo.gov_fdsys_pkg_FR-2D2015-2D02-2D03_pdf_2015-2D01880.pdf&d=AwIF-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=nOx2v156D8uT1thUwsFwrfYvlGSuQwB5albVTXKh5v8&s=iHt12FZYwcCSSpinV_g8p7SkIWAX0uBPETumdAySeco&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpo.gov_fdsys_pkg_FR-2D2015-2D02-2D03_pdf_2015-2D01880.pdf&d=AwIF-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=nOx2v156D8uT1thUwsFwrfYvlGSuQwB5albVTXKh5v8&s=iHt12FZYwcCSSpinV_g8p7SkIWAX0uBPETumdAySeco&e=</a><br>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_111050">
<div class="yiv1345363178h5" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424265065912_111049">><br>
> Under the Paperwork Reduction Act, federal
agencies can't request information from non-federal
entities or citizens without permission from the
White House Office of Management and Budget. To
obtain approval for an Information Collection
Request (ICR) they must publish the proposed ICR for
comment which is what they are doing here.<br>
><br>
> This request is no doubt in part a result of
the reports of the Inspector General (at least two
over the past decade) that criticized DOI rather
harshly for not having adequate inventories of stuff
collected from public lands managed by DOI agencies
(USFWS, NPS, BLM).<br>
><br>
> Take a good look at what they are going to
require you to do. We've had this discussion in the
context of the NPS situation. Are you really going
to take the time to go back through your collections
- every item! - to determine what came from
DOI-managed public lands - ever - even though not
georeferenced that precisely at the time collected,
even though the exact site may or may not have been
DOI-managed public land at the time? You'd have to
know the boundaries of each site at the time of
collection, assuming it was even designated as a:<br>
><br>
> National Wildlife Refuge<br>
> National Park<br>
> Public land area managed by the BLM<br>
> National wildlife preserve<br>
> Elk refuge<br>
> National bird refuge<br>
> etc.<br>
><br>
> at the time of collection.<br>
><br>
> And they estimate that this will take 2 hrs, 20
minutes per year.<br>
><br>
> THEY RECEIVED NO COMMENTS IN RESPONSE TO THE
PRIOR NOTICE PUBLISHED IN MARCH 2014.<br>
><br>
> The Department of the Interior invites comments
on: (a) Whether the collection of information is
necessary for the proper performance of the
functions of the agency, including whether the
information will have practical utility; (b) The
accuracy of the agency’s estimate of the burden of
the collection and the validity of the methodology
and assumptions used; (c) Ways to enhance the
quality, utility, and clarity of the information to
be collected; and (d) Ways to minimize the burden of
the collection of information on those who are to
respond, including through the use of appropriate
automated, electronic, mechanical, or other
collection techniques or other forms of information
technology. ‘‘Burden’’ means the total time, effort,
or financial resources expended by persons to
generate, maintain, retain, disclose, or provide
information to or for a federal agency. This
includes the time needed to review instructions; to
develop, acquire, install and utilize technology and
systems for the purpose of collecting,
validating and verifying information, processing and<br>
> maintaining information, and disclosing and
providing information; to train personnel and to be
able to respond to a collection of information, to
search data sources, to complete and review the
collection of information; and to transmit or
otherwise disclose the information.<br>
><br>
> Think about the potential consequences of not
complying once this goes into effect.<br>
><br>
> I really suggest you read this notice
carefully.<br>
><br>
> Ellen<br>
><br>
> Ellen Paul<br>
> Executive Director<br>
> The Ornithological Council<br>
> Email:<br>
> <a href="mailto:ellen.paul@verizon.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ellen.paul@verizon.net">ellen.paul@verizon.net</a><br>
><br>
> "Providing Scientific Information about Birds<br>
> "<br>
</div>
</div>
> <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nmnh.si.edu_BIRDNET&d=AwIF-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=nOx2v156D8uT1thUwsFwrfYvlGSuQwB5albVTXKh5v8&s=UCUDJ9K4Mcnb-BpPFb_xUJjuDwcZ7hpAD_gHk48b_J0&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nmnh.si.edu_BIRDNET&d=AwIF-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=nOx2v156D8uT1thUwsFwrfYvlGSuQwB5albVTXKh5v8&s=UCUDJ9K4Mcnb-BpPFb_xUJjuDwcZ7hpAD_gHk48b_J0&e=</a>
"<br>
><br>
><br>
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<fieldset class="yiv1345363178mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See <a class="yiv1345363178moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwMD-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=EWTwmZ4CTUaZCKneYjLS3KfoHA3-1bpo-vI8Qqbl-8M&s=c9U5SVzbsH24ma3cLu03ODNGBzhjzu64HkJ7NakAzC8&e=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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