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--></style></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I am holidaying in France and have just got a signal!</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Yes to nearly all of Dirk’s comments except that I don’t find that formalin fixation would even start to decalcify the inorganic matrix out of bones. Formalin fixation usually occurs from pH 7 down to pH 5 but not below and for short-term immersion, enough to fix, this would not be an issue. In my experience I have found decalcified skeletons in whole mammals stored over a multi-year period in formalin and where the pH has dropped down to about pH 3, usually due to the lipid seepage and subsequent oxidation! However, this is rather academic relating to the main topic under discussion.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I would certainly agree with the everything else that he said especially the problem of the fixed state of organs upsetting the use of enzymes &c.</p><p class=MsoNormal><br>With all good wishes, Simon.<br><br>Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR<br>Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,<br>www.natural-history-conservation.com</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0cm'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:dckatz@ucdavis.edu">David Katz</a><br><b>Sent: </b>26 May 2017 19:51<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:dirk.neumann@zsm.mwn.de">Dirk Neumann</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Nhcoll-l] Formaldehyde and bone preservation</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks everyone. We will stick with out original (non-formalin) plan. The reason for considering formalin is because these animals are potentially disease vectors. By "short" I meant fixation for a sufficient length of time that the tissue would be fixed. I was contrasting it with a situation where you might have an animal sitting in formalin for years (sometimes happens in anatomy classes for dissection specimens that don't get used).</p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Really appreciate the help. </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>David</p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:59 AM, Dirk Neumann <<a href="mailto:dirk.neumann@zsm.mwn.de" target="_blank">dirk.neumann@zsm.mwn.de</a>> wrote:</p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear David,<br><br>because of the low pH formaldehyde decalcifies the the bones and can make (tiny) bones brittle. Also, because of the covalent bonding inside tissues, enzymatic degradation of tissues is hindered. Unbound formalin escaping during maceration from specimens could cause formaldehyde gas to get trapped under the lid of the maceration tank and might cause health issues when opening the tank.<br><br>I am also not sure if "short" fixation would result in sufficient penetration into tissues, so you would need to expose the bodied for sufficient long time (depending on the size and amount of tissue) <br><br>This would be the immediate concerns that jump into my mind, but there might be more.<br><br>Hope this helps<br>Dirk</p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br>Am 26.05.2017 um 03:45 schrieb David Katz:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi everyone, </p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>We will have a number of medium bodied primate carcasses that we plan to macerate in order to preserve the skeletons. We've been told that fixing with formaldehyde prior to maceration can negatively affect the bones. </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>What are the consequences? Is this an issue for both short and long duration fixation, or just long? Thanks very much.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>David<br clear=all></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- </p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>David C. Katz, Ph.D.</p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Postdoctoral Fellow<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Benedikt Hallgrimsson Lab<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>University of Calgary<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Research Associate</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Department of Anthropology<br>University of California, Davis</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.researchgate.net_profile_David-5FKatz29&d=DwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=l2m1TxetuJFFU3F1X1583Si31tc_rwjKAPbjbBGfOiA&s=SKyKxGfcWWp-HTvfqIULUy2uF4nVwFZfmMCrJEbpoyI&e=" target="_blank">ResearchGate profile</a></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__davidckatz.wordpress.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=l2m1TxetuJFFU3F1X1583Si31tc_rwjKAPbjbBGfOiA&s=ert2P4xx4XKkYCEAjdJXnyV6IzJQgl-BjzI38PFjwDQ&e=" target="_blank">Personal webpage<br></a></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Nhcoll-l mailing list</pre><pre><a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a></pre><pre><a href="http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l" target="_blank">http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l</a></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________ </pre><pre>NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of</pre><pre>Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose</pre><pre>mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of</pre><pre>natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to</pre><pre>society. See <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=DwMDaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=NhXYISxzWYewsNlijGkdW11hl1Kpw-8NsR_FCe-HXnw&s=16fpOpBpdCdK1lHXJ0Pl7Z4ZhY5UhYqRw8oiv8-HAq0&e=" target="_blank">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.</pre><pre>Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.</pre></blockquote><p><o:p> </o:p></p><pre>-- </pre><pre>Dirk Neumann</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Tel: 089 / 8107-111</pre><pre>Fax: 089 / 8107-300</pre><pre>email: Dirk.Neumann(a)<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__zsm.mwn.de&d=DwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=hKTRB4f5hDXDvXtePcuTY1X-2LfzlPtO4X-0ARo7Kfo&s=rIGOWrSJlSh0mcvu7a9j4ofEMU1A5Z7JS15j6K6gpi8&e=" target="_blank">zsm.mwn.de</a></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Postanschrift:</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns</pre><pre>Zoologische Staatssammlung München</pre><pre>Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage</pre><pre>Münchhausenstr. 21</pre><pre>81247 München</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:</pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMDaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=NhXYISxzWYewsNlijGkdW11hl1Kpw-8NsR_FCe-HXnw&s=6lOYAr49kj79I4njZugvmGupi7WAQFuWMw5IPnHwOO0&e=" target="_blank">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>---------</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Dirk Neumann</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Tel: <a href="tel:+49%2089%208107111" target="_blank">+49-89-8107-111</a></pre><pre>Fax: <a href="tel:+49%2089%208107300" target="_blank">+49-89-8107-300</a></pre><pre>email: Dirk.Neumann(a)<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__zsm.mwn.de&d=DwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=hKTRB4f5hDXDvXtePcuTY1X-2LfzlPtO4X-0ARo7Kfo&s=rIGOWrSJlSh0mcvu7a9j4ofEMU1A5Z7JS15j6K6gpi8&e=" target="_blank">zsm.mwn.de</a></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>postal address:</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Bavarian Natural History Collections</pre><pre>The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology</pre><pre>Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage</pre><pre>Muenchhausenstr. 21</pre><pre>81247 Munich (Germany)</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Visit our section at:</pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMDaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=NhXYISxzWYewsNlijGkdW11hl1Kpw-8NsR_FCe-HXnw&s=6lOYAr49kj79I4njZugvmGupi7WAQFuWMw5IPnHwOO0&e=" target="_blank">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Nhcoll-l mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br><a href="http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l" target="_blank">http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<br>Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<br>mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<br>natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<br>society. See <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=hKTRB4f5hDXDvXtePcuTY1X-2LfzlPtO4X-0ARo7Kfo&s=38d00tjT4mF5Y5GSw5J7QZxqo_-IV66acHVsoIjltrI&e=" target="_blank">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.<br>Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.</p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- </p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>David C. Katz, Ph.D.</p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Postdoctoral Fellow<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Benedikt Hallgrimsson Lab<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>University of Calgary<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Research Associate</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Department of Anthropology<br>University of California, Davis</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.researchgate.net_profile_David-5FKatz29&d=DwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=hKTRB4f5hDXDvXtePcuTY1X-2LfzlPtO4X-0ARo7Kfo&s=IwhJyiGD7icP-YaoaeIw5HJZUq9nFXcuHDx7Ul7ThoI&e=" target="_blank">ResearchGate profile</a></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__davidckatz.wordpress.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=hKTRB4f5hDXDvXtePcuTY1X-2LfzlPtO4X-0ARo7Kfo&s=Etij0odT63ZEi6msW3oD-oE3gplCVtJ9NonZRh9p8b4&e=" target="_blank">Personal webpage<br></a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>