<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Thanks Dirk and John and Perry for showing this problem.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have seen more than a few coelacanth specimens on display in museums and the only real survivors have been preserved in 5% formalin <u class="">+</u> phosphate buffer. Perhaps there is a lesson here….?</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">With all good wishes, Simon.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR<br class="">Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,<br class=""><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.natural-2Dhistory-2Dconservation.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=PIhbfxTdbXgRNri6QcEmcNDfbuos1yqinO0oTVnU1YY&s=8PLVXiTfpjan5AdsiRmwtek0LxJhRlp2HN5Cb63L_no&e=" class="">www.natural-history-conservation.com</a> </div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div>
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13 Sep 2017, at 20:09, Dirk Neumann <<a href="mailto:dirk.neumann@zsm.mwn.de" class="">dirk.neumann@zsm.mwn.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Perry,<br class="">
<br class="">
just to add few details for converting the specimen (partly) into
an anatomical prep. My assumption was this Coelacanth should stay
on display, but should no longer be presented in this condition.<br class="">
<br class="">
Before starting any preparations on the specimens, I would
document it as good as possible (preferably cost-efficient 3-D
imaging methods, e.g. with a traditional digital camera and photos
to be taken from different angles).<br class="">
<br class="">
Test tissues, to explore how deep the deterioration of the tissues
continues in the inside of the body. Keep all scales and other
small bones or the eye ball in 75 EtOH (perhaps change the alcohol
to get rid of residual acids). Rinse the bones to get rid of any
acids or lipids. Soft detergents might be helpful.<br class="">
<br class="">
Remove the broken down tissues until you reach more stable areas
and prep the specimen in a way that it stays useful for exhibition
purpose in the current display tank (but using EtOH to slow down
further deterioration (as far as possible). Gradually remove the
isoprop (no separate staging of the specimen) is surely useful to
avoid further damage to cell membranes. After this transfer, you
should carefully monitor the fluid (discolouration) and exchange
the fluid again to get rid of residual isopropyl leaching from the
specimen.<br class="">
<br class="">
If everything fails and the tissues of the specimen continue to
break down, you still can prepare the bones. Might be worth to
secure any gut contents etc. (if still available, e.g. fish bones)
and to do ct-scans of organs etc. if this is still possible.<br class="">
<br class="">
I wish you best of success with any treatment you would find
suited.<br class="">
Dirk<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Am 13.09.2017 um 18:51 schrieb John E Simmons:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAF7GCDa+Q+GjRSJC6QTDGvBTadbNpd7w=q0DMW_SMCrpbSRhcg@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;">Perry,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;">I
have examined the photos that you sent of the specimen, and to
be perfectly frank, the condition of the coelacanth specimen
is very bad. At this point, I am not sure you can save the
specimen. I have included in this email another expert on the
preservation of fluid preserved specimens--Dirk Neumann
(Zoologische Staatssammlung, Munich), who has also reviewed
the pictures, as well as Rob Waller and Simon Moore. I have
attached the photographs that you sent me to this email in
case Rob and Simon have not seen all of them.<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;">To
summarize your previous emails, this is what is known about
the specimen (please let me know if any of these points are
incorrect):</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font size="2" class=""><span class="">1. The specimen was purchased in the fall
of 1971,
and was preserved in formaldehyde at that time.</span></font></p>
<font size="2" class="">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font size="2" class=""><span class="">2. The specimen was transferred to alcohol
when it was put
on display sometime after 1971.<br class="">
</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font size="2" class=""><span class=""> [do you mean it was transferred to
ethyl alcohol at this time?]<br class="">
</span></font></p>
<font size="2" class="">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font size="2" class=""><span class="">3. Some alcohol changes were done in the
following
years, but no records exist of the changes.</span></font></p>
<font size="2" class="">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font size="2" class=""><span class="">4. The last complete alcohol change (the
old alcohol was drained and replaced with 50% <span class=""> </span>isopropanol)
was done in 2000. The isopropanol has
not been changed since 2000.</span></font></p>
<font size="2" class="">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font size="2" class=""><span class="">5. A pH reading was made on April 12,
2017. The litmus paper indicated less than pH 5. It was
pale
yellow.</span></font></p>
<font size="2" class="">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font size="2" class=""><span class="">6. A density meter reading was made on
April 12, 2017 and showed the solution to be 0.9285 g/cm<sup class="">2
</sup>(density
meter adjusted to alcohol). The display has 51%
Isopropanol (standardized
to 20 <sup class="">o</sup>C), and 43.4% (non-standardize and
not corrected to
temperature).</span></font></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;">Some
points to consider:<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;">-The
density of 50% isopropyl alcohol at 20C should be about 0.925
g/mL.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;">-Testing
for pH of alcohol mixtures is tricky, but a pH indicator strip
can give you an approximate idea of how acidic or basic the
mixture is.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;">-From
the photographs, it appears that a lot of damage has already
occurred to the specimen that cannot be repaired and in fact,
the deterioration is ongoing and will only get worse. As Simon
Moore pointed out in his email response, the scales and other
debris accumulating in the tank indicate that that the tissues
and tissue matrix of the specimen are breaking down, probably
due to acidification of the isopropyl alcohol mixture. The
orange color of the specimen is also characteristic of
acidification of a preserved specimen (although the color
could also be an artifact of the lighting used for the
photographs).<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: small;">I
also sent the photographs to<font size="2" class=""><span style="line-height:107%" class=""> Dirk Neumann to examine. He has
suggested that you could try transferring
the specimen into 75% ethyl alcohol (ETOH) by gradually
adding ethanol to the
storage fluid in a series of steps (for example, using
ratios of ethanol to
isopropyl storage fluid of 1/3, 2/3, 3/3) to slow down the
deterioration process, but it is unlikely that the
deterioration can be stopped it at this point, and that
procedure will not restore the specimen. Another option
might be to</span></font><font size="2" class=""><span style="line-height:107%" class=""> convert the specimen (at least
its badly
damaged side) to be an anatomical preparation, showing the
skeleton.</span></font><br class="">
<font size="2" class=""><span style="line-height:107%" class=""></span></font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="line-height:107%" class="">
<br class="">
</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="line-height:107%" class="">It is possible
that Rob, Simon, or Dirk will have other suggestions for
what you can do, but the situation does not look good.</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="line-height:107%" class=""><br class="">
</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><font size="2" class=""><span style="line-height:107%" class="">I will be in
Vancouver from 02-05 November for a meeting. Although my
schedule is very full due to the meeting, I might be
able to come to the Vancouver Aquarium on Sunday
afternoon, 05 November, to look at the specimen if that
is possible (my flight home leaves that evening),
although I doubt that I could see anything that is not
visible in the photographs.<br class="">
</span></font></p>
<font size="2" class="">
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;"><font size="2" class=""><br class="">
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;"><font size="2" class="">--John<br class="">
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">John E. Simmons<br class="">
Museologica<br class="">
128 E. Burnside Street<br class="">
Bellefonte, Pennsylvania 16823-2010<br class="">
<a href="mailto:simmons.johne@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">simmons.johne@gmail.com</a><br class="">
303-681-5708<br class="">
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.museologica.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=PIhbfxTdbXgRNri6QcEmcNDfbuos1yqinO0oTVnU1YY&s=FQABiR7Mt9AIhuv7RSauYX4KLphHByTagfQ62wDhCDM&e=" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">www.museologica.com</a><br class="">
and<br class="">
Adjunct Curator of Collections<br class="">
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery<br class="">
Penn State University<br class="">
University Park, Pennsylvania<br class="">
and<br class="">
Instructor, Museum Studies<br class="">
School of Library and Information Science<br class="">
Kent State University<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dirk Neumann
Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__zsm.mwn.de&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=PIhbfxTdbXgRNri6QcEmcNDfbuos1yqinO0oTVnU1YY&s=swqUuoNO3wg93rWqKbS6wuuVJXRhHpgO3dGLXIJGnYs&e=" class="">zsm.mwn.de</a>
Postanschrift:
Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
Münchhausenstr. 21
81247 München
Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=PIhbfxTdbXgRNri6QcEmcNDfbuos1yqinO0oTVnU1YY&s=iHU8DEPGLbJsXZ9Ljgd511ME3wGgsEDXtoVTr8LXreE&e=">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a>
---------
Dirk Neumann
Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__zsm.mwn.de&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=PIhbfxTdbXgRNri6QcEmcNDfbuos1yqinO0oTVnU1YY&s=swqUuoNO3wg93rWqKbS6wuuVJXRhHpgO3dGLXIJGnYs&e=" class="">zsm.mwn.de</a>
postal address:
Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)
Visit our section at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=PIhbfxTdbXgRNri6QcEmcNDfbuos1yqinO0oTVnU1YY&s=iHU8DEPGLbJsXZ9Ljgd511ME3wGgsEDXtoVTr8LXreE&e=">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a>
</pre>
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