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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Even without liners and tape, we have had great success with the PP lids that we get from O’Berk. If well sealed we see little to no evaporation over decades in our facility that regularly runs at 25-35% humidity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU" style="color:#1F497D"> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V<br>
Andy Bentley<br>
Ichthyology Collection Manager<br>
University of Kansas<br>
Biodiversity Institute<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU" style="color:#1F497D">Dyche Hall<br>
<a href="x-apple-data-detectors://9">1345 Jayhawk Boulevard</a><br>
<a href="x-apple-data-detectors://9">Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561</a><br>
<a href="x-apple-data-detectors://9">USA</a><br>
<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-3863" target="_blank">(785) 864-3863</a><br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-5335" target="_blank">(785) 864-5335</a> <br>
Email: <a href="mailto:abentley@ku.edu" target="_blank">abentley@ku.edu</a> </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU" style="color:#1F497D"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu_&d=DwMFAw&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=Mn-fRU7dtD6RYH6Wx6qqhGv8hDldO3GqBBYbOG4402U&s=s_OYxd7q9q5ADqdaIIqMqs4KnrR_fYnj_ug-Tx70p60&e=" target="_blank">http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu</a></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jean-Marc Gagnon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 27, 2018 2:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dirk Neumann <dirk.neumann@zsm.mwn.de>; Mike Rutherford <Mike.Rutherford@sta.uwi.edu>; nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] jar lids<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">Dirk,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">I was a little surprised by your response, promoting metal lids as opposed to Polypropylene lids. We (at CMN) have not had any success with metal lids, even with what seems to be reasonable,
ethanol-resistant liners. Even the metal lids designed for Mason Jars, commonly used for preserves in North America, will rust after a while.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">In all our fluid-preserved collections, we have been using with great success Polypropylene lids for decades (of course, with two full tread turns), along with the F217 PE liner and sealing tape
(see Steigerwald and Laframboise (1996). TAPE APPLICATION: A JAR SEALING METHOD FOR REDUCING ETHANOL EVAPORATION IN FLUID-PRESERVED COLLECTIONS. Collection Forum Volume 12, Number 2).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">While we haven’t quantitatively measured that success, I can tell you that in our wet Mollusc Collection, prior to 2002, we would have many jars needing retopping after only a few years (they
often only had the PP lids with no liner or tape). But after applying the standard I described above in 2002, we literally haven’t had to retop the ethanol in any of the jars in the past 15-16 years.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">Is it always perfect: No. But we have had very little failure in these lids and liners. The tape is always reapplied fresh if a jar needs to be open; it is relatively inexpensive (from Spectape
Inc.) so that I not an issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">I hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">Jean-Marc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D">Jean-Marc Gagnon, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D">Curator/Conservateur, Invertebrate Collections/Collections de invertébrés<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D">Tel : 613-364-4066, email/courriel :
</span><a href="mailto:jmgagnon@nature.ca"><span lang="FR-CA">jmgagnon@nature.ca</span></a><span style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nature.ca_en_research-2Dcollections_science-2Dexperts_jean-2Dmarc-2Dgagnon&d=DwMFAw&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=IaMI7HvxEq7tVuuoq-5ckG_F-_3AwXCOb1i602dmKxY&s=YErJvyStE2jvk37fzdW_SlJVourhgIsCA1yl__SP92g&e="><span lang="FR-CA">https://nature.ca/en/research-collections/science-experts/jean-marc-gagnon</span></a><span style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D">Research & Collections / Recherche & Collections<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D">Canadian Museum of Nature /Musée canadien de la nature<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D">P.O. Box 3443, Sta. D / Casier Postal 3443, Succ.
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ottawa, ON K1P 6P4<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Canada<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">(Courier address : 1740 Pink Road, Gatineau, QC, J9J 3N7)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dirk Neumann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 24, 2018 5:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mike Rutherford <<a href="mailto:Mike.Rutherford@sta.uwi.edu">Mike.Rutherford@sta.uwi.edu</a>>;
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] jar lids<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Mike,<br>
<br>
depending on the climatic conditions inside you storage area and the holding fluid the specimens are stored in rusting of lids can be a major issue of course. However, because of the narrow thread of twist-off jars, I am not entirely sure of the metal lids
can be easily replaced with plastic lids. The latter usually need higher threads because plastic lids tend to be deformed when screwed tight. This is the reason why jars with plastic lids normally have two fully closed thread turns, compared to jars with metal
lids which usually only have half thread turns. <br>
<br>
Moreover, plastic lids (e.g. PE or PP lids) do not form a good barrier against oxygen, and changing lids might increase or trigger oxidation issues inside jars.<br>
<br>
My advice would be to look into modern metal lids designed for food industry to close jars with sour ingredients (compared to lids for sweet stuff such as jam or honey); these usually have thicker liners inside which protect lids against scratching. Also made
bad experiences with (self-designed) PE-foil inlays, an earlier curator introduced in our collection: the foil is no good barrier against compounds evaporation from holding fluids, but a perfect trap to hold condensates inside a tiny, highly corrosive atmosphere
lid and foil which tends to accelerate deterioration of metal lids. <br>
<br>
Might be worth to check in the food sector for replacement lids or inquire such suppliers where to find 130mm lids.<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
Am 21.02.2018 um 21:57 schrieb Mike Rutherford:<span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m trying to source large polypropylene screw top lids for some glass jars I have in my museum. The jars are wide mouthed and squat, making them ideal for those weird shaped specimens but the current lids are thin metal ones which are
corroding badly. My previous source for lids was Carolina Biological Supplies but their maximum size of lid is 120mm diameter and I need ones of 130mm diameter.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can anyone suggest a supplier, preferably in the western hemisphere?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Mr. Mike G. Rutherford</b><br>
Curator of the University of the West Indies Zoology Museum (UWIZM)<br>
Department of Life Sciences<br>
<b>The University of The West Indies<br>
St. Augustine Campus</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Trinidad & Tobago, W.I.</b> <br>
T: (Office) 868-662-2002 ext 82231<br>
T: (Mobile) 868-329-8401<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">E: <a href="mailto:mike.rutherford@sta.uwi.edu">mike.rutherford@sta.uwi.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">S: mike.g.rutherford<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Find us on<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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<pre>Fax: 089 / 8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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<pre>---------<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: +49-89-8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: +49-89-8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Bavarian Natural History Collections<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMD-g&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=UKkvshUmkFKgXIgWb06LnWOus6cTsvwEGL6L4R0PUxQ&s=Polyai12kT_Tg_Lw2Qsm4bqfdO44iJQzw6JcNmadY5U&e=">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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