<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Good morning Jean-Marc, Mike &
Andy!<br>
<br>
We have metal lids since the 1990ies in our collection. At the
moment, I occasionally have to replace those which have and
additional PE foil originally thought and introduced to improve
the closure. In fact it traps condensates and accelerates
deterioration (rusting ) of lids.<br>
<br>
As we have huge troubles with our climate control systems since
several years (system dates back to 1985 and never worked
properly, leading to RH shift btw. 80-30 %, yesterday I was even
below 30% ..) and temperature shifts ranging from 16-24°C, metal
lids in our collection are all but under stable, controlled
conditions. Adding to this, we have the quite aggressive ketone
MEK as denaturant. Still, the metal lids do fine, and our
observations in Munich largely agree with observations Emily Dock
made in Stockholm. (<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:RelyOnVML/>
<o:AllowPNG/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-theme-font:
minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">Warén,
A., E. Dock-Åkerman, and H. Taylor. 2010. Metal-lid jars in
museum collections?
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Collection Forum</i>
24(1-2):52-61.)</span><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:View>Normal</w:View>
<w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom>
<w:TrackMoves/>
<w:TrackFormatting/>
<w:PunctuationKerning/>
<w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>
<w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>
<w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>
<w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>
<w:DoNotPromoteQF/>
<w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther>
<w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian>
<w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript>
<w:Compatibility>
<w:BreakWrappedTables/>
<w:SnapToGridInCell/>
<w:WrapTextWithPunct/>
<w:UseAsianBreakRules/>
<w:DontGrowAutofit/>
<w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/>
<w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/>
<w:DontFlipMirrorIndents/>
<w:OverrideTableStyleHps/>
<w:UseFELayout/>
</w:Compatibility>
<m:mathPr>
<m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/>
<m:brkBin m:val="before"/>
<m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/>
<m:smallFrac m:val="off"/>
<m:dispDef/>
<m:lMargin m:val="0"/>
<m:rMargin m:val="0"/>
<m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/>
<m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/>
<m:intLim m:val="subSup"/>
<m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/>
</m:mathPr></w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true"
DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99"
LatentStyleCount="267">
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false"
UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/>
<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/>
</w:LatentStyles>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Normale Tabelle";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin-top:0cm;
mso-para-margin-right:0cm;
mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;
mso-para-margin-left:0cm;
line-height:115%;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}
</style>
<![endif]--><br>
<br>
Perhaps there is a difference in industry norms or production
standards between North America and Europe ? I know the
Steigerwald & Laframboise paper, but the question of taping
all jars (and re-doing all taping once the jars are opened) is a
simple cost-benefit question: a metal lid is less then 10 cent and
replacing a lid is less then 5 seconds, re-doing the taping takes
1-2 minutes plus tape costs. We have a rather small, but heavily
frequented collection, so replacing metal lids is the cheaper
option for us.<br>
<br>
My observation is that PP-lids with PE-liners do fine up to 45 mm
neck opening. Above that (50 mm), closures are not that good and
jars show increased evaporation issues. So our strategy at the
moment is: PP-lids with PE-Liners for 100ml-300 ml jars (rarely
500-1000 with 50 mmm necks), 1200-1700 ml jars with metal lids and
above only borosilicate with plane or ground stopper closures
(typical sizes are 300 mm x 80 mm and 300 x 150 mm for flanged and
400 x 150 mm & 600 x 200 mm for stoppered). <br>
<br>
Mike's question was to replace metal lids for jars which were
designed for metal lids. Because of the narrow threads of those
jars and the fact that opening would be rather wide (if I
understood Mike's question correctly), I doubt that PP-screw on
lids for diameters above 50 mm would be a could replacement.
Independent of this I definitely agree that replacement of entire
jars (compromised metal lids in jars with necks up to 50 mm in
diameter) with jars with PP-lids would be a good idea. Depending
on the climatic conditions inside storage. PP lids with PE liners
are surely a much better oxygen barrier compared to PVC.-lids, but
still allow diffusion of oxygen. Metal lids have a better
performance in this regard.<br>
<br>
In the end there are several trade-offs and no straight forwards
solution, I guess.<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 27.02.2018 um 21:41 schrieb Jean-Marc Gagnon:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:YQBPR0101MB1570775407E4AF223C6E8FA4C6C00@YQBPR0101MB1570.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">Dirk,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">I was a little
surprised by your response, promoting metal lids as opposed
to Polypropylene lids. We (at CMN) have not had any success
with metal lids, even with what seems to be reasonable,
ethanol-resistant liners. Even the metal lids designed for
Mason Jars, commonly used for preserves in North America,
will rust after a while.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">In all our
fluid-preserved collections, we have been using with great
success Polypropylene lids for decades (of course, with two
full tread turns), along with the F217 PE liner and sealing
tape (see Steigerwald and Laframboise (1996). TAPE
APPLICATION: A JAR SEALING METHOD FOR REDUCING ETHANOL
EVAPORATION IN FLUID-PRESERVED COLLECTIONS. Collection Forum
Volume 12, Number 2).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">While we haven’t
quantitatively measured that success, I can tell you that in
our wet Mollusc Collection, prior to 2002, we would have
many jars needing retopping after only a few years (they
often only had the PP lids with no liner or tape). But after
applying the standard I described above in 2002, we
literally haven’t had to retop the ethanol in any of the
jars in the past 15-16 years.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">Is it always perfect:
No. But we have had very little failure in these lids and
liners. The tape is always reapplied fresh if a jar needs to
be open; it is relatively inexpensive (from Spectape Inc.)
so that I not an issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">I hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">Jean-Marc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="FR-CA">Jean-Marc
Gagnon, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="FR-CA">Curator/Conservateur,
Invertebrate Collections/Collections de invertébrés<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="FR-CA">Tel :
613-364-4066, email/courriel :
</span><a href="mailto:jmgagnon@nature.ca" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1"
lang="FR-CA">jmgagnon@nature.ca</span></a><span
style="color:#1F497D">
<span lang="FR-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nature.ca_en_research-2Dcollections_science-2Dexperts_jean-2Dmarc-2Dgagnon&d=DwMD-g&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=s5Uu9tUNMVVYSQvDDO8rz4b-5I-jDDCUJegy1iHedJY&s=hxfLWy84Nisq5tiH0bXcCnhWGJpc0bps8yz7nbP9Xrk&e=" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1"
lang="FR-CA">https://nature.ca/en/research-collections/science-experts/jean-marc-gagnon</span></a><span
style="color:#1F497D">
<span lang="FR-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="FR-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="FR-CA">Research
& Collections / Recherche & Collections<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="FR-CA">Canadian
Museum of Nature /Musée canadien de la nature<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="FR-CA">P.O.
Box 3443, Sta. D / Casier Postal 3443, Succ.
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ottawa, ON K1P
6P4<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Canada<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">(Courier
address : 1740 Pink Road, Gatineau, QC, J9J 3N7)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dirk Neumann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 24, 2018 5:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mike Rutherford
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Mike.Rutherford@sta.uwi.edu"><Mike.Rutherford@sta.uwi.edu></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] jar lids<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Mike,<br>
<br>
depending on the climatic conditions inside you storage area
and the holding fluid the specimens are stored in rusting of
lids can be a major issue of course. However, because of the
narrow thread of twist-off jars, I am not entirely sure of
the metal lids can be easily replaced with plastic lids. The
latter usually need higher threads because plastic lids tend
to be deformed when screwed tight. This is the reason why
jars with plastic lids normally have two fully closed thread
turns, compared to jars with metal lids which usually only
have half thread turns. <br>
<br>
Moreover, plastic lids (e.g. PE or PP lids) do not form a
good barrier against oxygen, and changing lids might
increase or trigger oxidation issues inside jars.<br>
<br>
My advice would be to look into modern metal lids designed
for food industry to close jars with sour ingredients
(compared to lids for sweet stuff such as jam or honey);
these usually have thicker liners inside which protect lids
against scratching. Also made bad experiences with
(self-designed) PE-foil inlays, an earlier curator
introduced in our collection: the foil is no good barrier
against compounds evaporation from holding fluids, but a
perfect trap to hold condensates inside a tiny, highly
corrosive atmosphere lid and foil which tends to accelerate
deterioration of metal lids. <br>
<br>
Might be worth to check in the food sector for replacement
lids or inquire such suppliers where to find 130mm lids.<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
Am 21.02.2018 um 21:57 schrieb Mike Rutherford:<span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m trying to source large polypropylene
screw top lids for some glass jars I have in my museum. The
jars are wide mouthed and squat, making them ideal for those
weird shaped specimens but the current lids are thin metal
ones which are corroding badly. My previous source for lids
was Carolina Biological Supplies but their maximum size of
lid is 120mm diameter and I need ones of 130mm diameter.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can anyone suggest a supplier, preferably
in the western hemisphere?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Mr. Mike G. Rutherford</b><br>
Curator of the University of the West Indies Zoology Museum
(UWIZM)<br>
Department of Life Sciences<br>
<b>The University of The West Indies<br>
St. Augustine Campus</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Trinidad & Tobago, W.I.</b> <br>
T: (Office) 868-662-2002 ext 82231<br>
T: (Mobile) 868-329-8401<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">E: <a href="mailto:mike.rutherford@sta.uwi.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">mike.rutherford@sta.uwi.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">S: mike.g.rutherford<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Find us on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Website: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sta.uwi.edu_fst_lifesciences_uwi-2Dzoology-2Dmuseum&d=DwMD-g&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=UKkvshUmkFKgXIgWb06LnWOus6cTsvwEGL6L4R0PUxQ&s=6cvr4AeQ-A3OABL4MvAgycTiEccDVJO_-b96xXzwVAI&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">
www.sta.uwi.edu/fst/lifesciences/uwi-zoology-museum</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Facebook: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.facebook.com_uwizoologymuseum&d=DwMD-g&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=UKkvshUmkFKgXIgWb06LnWOus6cTsvwEGL6L4R0PUxQ&s=3Kj_0ms32zS8w8_YI8n1mJWaklVj175xxnQEP2gAIvQ&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">
www.facebook.com/uwizoologymuseum</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">CONFIDENTIALITY:
This email (including any attachments) may contain
confidential, proprietary and/or privileged information.
Any duplication, copying, distribution, dissemination,
transmission, disclosure or use in any manner of this
email (including any attachments) without the
authorisation of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you
receive this email (including any attachments) in error,
please notify the sender and delete this email (including
any attachments) from your system. Thank you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">CONFIDENTIALITY: This email (including
any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary
and/or privileged information. Any duplication, copying,
distribution, dissemination, transmission, disclosure or
use in any manner of this email (including any
attachments) without the authorisation of the sender is
strictly prohibited. If you receive this email (including
any attachments) in error, please notify the sender and
delete this email (including any attachments) from your
system. Thank you. <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nhcoll-l mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________ <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>society. See <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=DwMD-g&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=UKkvshUmkFKgXIgWb06LnWOus6cTsvwEGL6L4R0PUxQ&s=tbJfY6zYFeY_R-luGVlNmokcwaP-JIL1y2F_6pkdOpk&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: 089 / 8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: 089 / 8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Postanschrift:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Zoologische Staatssammlung München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Münchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMD-g&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=UKkvshUmkFKgXIgWb06LnWOus6cTsvwEGL6L4R0PUxQ&s=Polyai12kT_Tg_Lw2Qsm4bqfdO44iJQzw6JcNmadY5U&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>---------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: +49-89-8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: +49-89-8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>postal address:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Bavarian Natural History Collections<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Muenchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 Munich (Germany)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Visit our section at:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMD-g&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=UKkvshUmkFKgXIgWb06LnWOus6cTsvwEGL6L4R0PUxQ&s=Polyai12kT_Tg_Lw2Qsm4bqfdO44iJQzw6JcNmadY5U&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dirk Neumann
Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de
Postanschrift:
Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
Münchhausenstr. 21
81247 München
Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMD-g&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=s5Uu9tUNMVVYSQvDDO8rz4b-5I-jDDCUJegy1iHedJY&s=4FsBeIkROheoxiGuBgYyWAycrQLhlY8r1Le94h8ds2g&e=">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a>
---------
Dirk Neumann
Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de
postal address:
Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)
Visit our section at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMD-g&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=s5Uu9tUNMVVYSQvDDO8rz4b-5I-jDDCUJegy1iHedJY&s=4FsBeIkROheoxiGuBgYyWAycrQLhlY8r1Le94h8ds2g&e=">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a>
</pre>
</body>
</html>