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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Peter & Lance an all,<br>
<br>
I think Peter is entirely right with his observation: it is about
accessioning and archiving data in a collection. Same surely
applies to other types of images, which often get stranded when
research projects terminate at some point, PhD candidates leave,
research groups dissolve, etc. (for example x-ray or ct-scans)<br>
<br>
The same in principle applies for sequencing files,including
archiving of the unedited raw data of DNA samples.<br>
<br>
Depending on format and available resources, one could either opt
to treat and archive these comparable to library acquisitions, or
as traditional "collection" items (which not necessarily need to
be linked to own collection objects or specimens).<br>
<br>
But I have not come across a clever simple way of how to archive
such data in a comprehensive and - more important - sustainable
way, i.e. independent of individual computers or persons (as we do
with our collection objects). Some databases currently offer the
possibility to manage archive data, and (at least for our digital
x-rays) it seems convenient to treat the file name as an accession
number, which then is displayed in our database. All images are in
one folder to be searched or sorted acc. to file name or file
date, which are independently back-uped and mirrored on different
serves and can be accessed from different computers.<br>
<br>
We are currently thinking to do it the same way with DNA-raw data,
but have not looked deeper into this ywt.<br>
<br>
Maybe this could be one option to treat and "accession" such
images.<br>
<br>
All the best<br>
Dirk <br>
<br>
<br>
Am 22.05.2018 um 18:34 schrieb Peter Rauch:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGU2wB-KE2gBaPjjr=zPWwZHpNVkwi=pz+ya3mW5M6s3rrar1w@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Lance's bottom-line question was:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"
<span style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">To
accession, or not to accession? How do we balance the risk
of preserving
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);background:white none
repeat scroll 0% 0%">high <i><u>quality</u></i> </span>data
while at the same documenting potentially important events
like this?</span>
"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Rather than "not cataloging ... not publishing" (per
Curtis) the photo record, and/or "adding the phot to
iNaturalist" (per Mike), how about simply properly documenting
the accession with the known information (incl. its apparent
deficiencies), and allow others to determine for themselves
what relevance or importance to give to the accession?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are we building accession-based information systems which
are not designed to accommodate (document) details about the
reliability / quality / suspect nature of those accessions;
the argument that "we" should only accession material that is
in some limited sense "pure", "unverifiable" (in some senses
only, which could itself be highlighted in the accession
record), seems to be more of a go-no-go threshold to apply to
a deficiently-designed information system --one that can not
work with less-than-perfect information.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There exists a photo which depicts a frog with a
possibly-reliable determination that can potentially document
the occurrence of that specimen (and potentially, species)
out-of-range, and likely / possibly due to a dispersal
mechanism that we know from experience has had serious
ecological consequences for our native biota. THAT is "high
quality" data, though it may not be describing, e.g.,
specimens which are more commonly preserved in biological
collections. Can our biodiversity collections not accommodate
such easily-described and potentially valuable photographs?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peter<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 4:21 PM,
Mike Rutherford <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:Mike.Rutherford@sta.uwi.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Mike.Rutherford@sta.uwi.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-TT">
<div class="m_6387773145541326478WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">As
an alternative way of preserving the record for
posterity why not add the photo to iNaturalist?
Research Grade records(i.e. ones that have been
verified by others) are shared by iNaturalist
with GBIF so the record would be widely
accessible. This way you could share the data
without compromising your collection standards.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Mike</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
Old Style",serif;color:black"
lang="EN-US">Mr. Mike G. Rutherford</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old
Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US"><br>
Curator of the University of the West Indies
Zoology Museum (UWIZM)<br>
Department of Life Sciences<br>
<b>The University of The West Indies<br>
St. Augustine Campus</b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
Old Style",serif;color:black"
lang="EN-US">Trinidad & Tobago, W.I.</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old
Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">
<br>
T: (Office) 868-662-2002 ext 82231<br>
T: (Mobile) 868-329-8401</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">E:
<a href="mailto:mike.rutherford@sta.uwi.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563c1">mike.rutherford@sta.uwi.edu</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">S:
mike.g.rutherford</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US"><br>
Find us on</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">Website:
<a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sta.uwi.edu_fst_lifesciences_uwi-2Dzoology-2Dmuseum&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=lz3CKMZ0HLpuzDIr8YQO_DmmjUX7Cm9qCG4yqk8KODA&s=qr6pVYvM1DaGeG9flU-_C5UvPSV8oFzOgQNsdWvgPqI&e="
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.sta.uwi.edu/fst/<wbr>lifesciences/uwi-zoology-<wbr>museum</a>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">Facebook:
<a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.facebook.com_uwizoologymuseum&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=lz3CKMZ0HLpuzDIr8YQO_DmmjUX7Cm9qCG4yqk8KODA&s=7g5iTlqJ2Iv-NVLY4ZUfmizBJm0kF9JVYwdZWdur2kg&e="
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/<wbr>uwizoologymuseum</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> Nhcoll-l [mailto:<a
href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l-bounces@<wbr>mailman.yale.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Curtis Schmidt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 21 May 2018 18:28<br>
<b>To:</b> Lance McBrayer <<a
href="mailto:lancemcbrayer@georgiasouthern.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lancemcbrayer@<wbr>georgiasouthern.edu</a>>;
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Accession of
rare photo records</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div id="m_6387773145541326478divtagdefaultwrapper">
<p><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Lance,</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">What
kept the individual from collecting the
non-native species in the first place? I would
certainly caution against cataloging an
unverifiable photograph because, as you
mention, it promotes bad science and poor
quality data. It would be different if it was
an endangered species, but I see a photograph
of very little value in this particular
situation. I personally am an advocate of not
publishing records based on photographs unless
the animals are protected. This is becoming an
all too common practice that is irresponsible
IMHO. I hope this helps.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Curtis</span></p>
<div id="m_6387773145541326478Signature">
<div
id="m_6387773145541326478divtagdefaultwrapper">
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">______________________________<wbr>___</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Curtis
J. Schmidt</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Zoological
Collections Manager</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Sternberg
Museum of Natural History</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Instructor</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">
Department of Biological Sciences</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">
Fort Hays State University</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">
3000 Sternberg Drive</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">
Hays, KS 67601</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">
785-650-2447 (cell)</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">______________________________<wbr>__</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr size="2" align="center" width="98%">
</div>
<div id="m_6387773145541326478divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">
Nhcoll-l <<a
href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.<wbr>yale.edu</a>>
on behalf of Lance McBrayer <<a
href="mailto:lancemcbrayer@georgiasouthern.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lancemcbrayer@<wbr>georgiasouthern.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 21, 2018 3:21:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Nhcoll-l] Accession of rare
photo records</span> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif">All</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif">I curate a
herpetology collection of about 35,000
specimens, almost all of which are actual
specimens. However, I also take definitive
photographs such that there is little to
no question about the species in the
photograph. I am aware of the debate on
the value of photographic records, but
I've come into an interesting situation.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif">Recently, a collector
I do not know asked to voucher a
photograph of an invasive species of
tropical frog that is established in
Florida, and now Georgia and several other
states. Yet this record is from
Massachusetts. Furthermore, the specimen
was photographed in a potted plant in a
national chain store of lumber and
hardware...in February of 2018.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif">Clearly the frog was
brought there in or on the plant(s). But
as such, this record is potentially
valuable. This tropical frog species is
very likely to have died in the harsh MA
winter....but it does well cohabitating
with humans...so maybe not. And the store
is literally next to a major river. So, if
it does survive and disperse, it could
move lots of places quickly.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif">I have contacted four
other very knowledgeable herpetologists to
confirm my identification, and that of the
collector. We all agree it "looks like"
the same species; i.e. all five of us
agree on the identification.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif">To accession, or not
to accession? How do we balance the risk
of preserving
<span
style="color:#222222;background:white">high <i><u>quality</u></i> </span>data
while at the same documenting potentially
important events like this?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif">Thanks for your
insights.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Trebuchet
MS",sans-serif">lm</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Lance
D. McBrayer</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Associate
Dean of Faculty &
Research Programs</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>College
of Science and Mathematics</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Georgia
Southern University</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">TEL:
912.478.5111</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#0000ee"><a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__sites.google.com_a_georgiasouthern.edu_lance-2Dd-2Dmcbrayer_&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=X8OZAEBTE3DbHbmuWdsqg9AShDNGf1EHZQbvVr2zrm8&s=nrFiBYQ9akOJWFB-DdBiohFzLRZa6tB2IYJPTWTiE1k&e="
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Webpage</a></span></u></p>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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81247 München
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Dirk Neumann
Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de
postal address:
Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)
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