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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Peter & Lance an all,<br>
      <br>
      I think Peter is entirely right with his observation: it is about
      accessioning and archiving data in a collection. Same surely
      applies to other types of images, which often get stranded when
      research projects terminate at some point, PhD candidates leave,
      research groups dissolve, etc. (for example x-ray or ct-scans)<br>
      <br>
      The same in principle applies for sequencing files,including
      archiving of the unedited raw data of DNA samples.<br>
      <br>
      Depending on format and available resources, one could either opt
      to treat and archive these comparable to library acquisitions, or
      as traditional "collection" items (which not necessarily need to
      be linked to own collection objects or specimens).<br>
      <br>
      But I have not come across a clever simple way of how to archive
      such data in a comprehensive and - more important - sustainable
      way, i.e. independent of individual computers or persons (as we do
      with our collection objects). Some databases currently offer the
      possibility to manage archive data, and (at least for our digital
      x-rays) it seems convenient to treat the file name as an accession
      number, which then is displayed in our database. All images are in
      one folder to be searched or sorted acc. to file name or file
      date, which are independently back-uped and mirrored on different
      serves and can be accessed from different computers.<br>
      <br>
      We are currently thinking to do it the same way with DNA-raw data,
      but have not looked deeper into this ywt.<br>
      <br>
      Maybe this could be one option to treat and "accession" such
      images.<br>
      <br>
      All the best<br>
      Dirk  <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Am 22.05.2018 um 18:34 schrieb Peter Rauch:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGU2wB-KE2gBaPjjr=zPWwZHpNVkwi=pz+ya3mW5M6s3rrar1w@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Lance's bottom-line question was:</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>"
          <span style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">To
            accession, or not to accession?  How do we balance the risk
            of preserving
            <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);background:white none
              repeat scroll 0% 0%">high <i><u>quality</u></i> </span>data
            while at the same documenting potentially important events
            like this?</span>
          "</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Rather than "not cataloging ... not publishing" (per
          Curtis) the photo record, and/or "adding the phot to
          iNaturalist" (per Mike), how about simply properly documenting
          the accession with the known information (incl. its apparent
          deficiencies), and allow others to determine for themselves
          what relevance or importance to give to the accession?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Are we building accession-based information systems which
          are not designed to accommodate (document) details about the
          reliability / quality / suspect nature of those accessions;
          the argument that "we" should only accession material that is
          in some limited sense "pure", "unverifiable" (in some senses
          only, which could itself be highlighted in the accession
          record), seems to be more of a go-no-go threshold to apply to
          a deficiently-designed information system --one that can not
          work with less-than-perfect information.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>There exists a photo which depicts a frog with a
          possibly-reliable determination that can potentially document
          the occurrence of that specimen (and potentially, species)
          out-of-range, and likely / possibly due to a dispersal
          mechanism that we know from experience has had serious
          ecological consequences for our native biota.   THAT is "high
          quality" data, though it may not be describing, e.g.,
          specimens which are more commonly preserved in biological
          collections.  Can our biodiversity collections not accommodate
          such easily-described and potentially valuable photographs?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Peter<br>
        </div>
        <div>
          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 4:21 PM,
              Mike Rutherford <span dir="ltr"><<a
                  href="mailto:Mike.Rutherford@sta.uwi.edu"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Mike.Rutherford@sta.uwi.edu</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-TT">
                  <div class="m_6387773145541326478WordSection1">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">As
                        an alternative way of preserving the record for
                        posterity why not add the photo to iNaturalist?
                        Research Grade records(i.e. ones that have been
                        verified by others) are shared by iNaturalist
                        with GBIF so the record would be widely
                        accessible. This way you could share the data
                        without compromising your collection standards.
                      </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Mike</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
                          Old Style",serif;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">Mr. Mike G. Rutherford</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old
                        Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US"><br>
                        Curator of the University of the West Indies
                        Zoology Museum (UWIZM)<br>
                        Department of Life Sciences<br>
                        <b>The University of The West Indies<br>
                          St. Augustine Campus</b></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
                          Old Style",serif;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">Trinidad & Tobago, W.I.</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old
                        Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">
                        <br>
                        T: (Office) 868-662-2002 ext 82231<br>
                        T: (Mobile) 868-329-8401</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
                        Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">E:
                        <a href="mailto:mike.rutherford@sta.uwi.edu"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                            style="color:#0563c1">mike.rutherford@sta.uwi.edu</span></a></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
                        Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">S:
                        mike.g.rutherford</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
                        Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US"><br>
                        Find us on</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
                        Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">Website:
                        <a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sta.uwi.edu_fst_lifesciences_uwi-2Dzoology-2Dmuseum&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=lz3CKMZ0HLpuzDIr8YQO_DmmjUX7Cm9qCG4yqk8KODA&s=qr6pVYvM1DaGeG9flU-_C5UvPSV8oFzOgQNsdWvgPqI&e="
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.sta.uwi.edu/fst/<wbr>lifesciences/uwi-zoology-<wbr>museum</a>
                      </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
                        Old Style",serif;color:black" lang="EN-US">Facebook:
                        <a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.facebook.com_uwizoologymuseum&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=lz3CKMZ0HLpuzDIr8YQO_DmmjUX7Cm9qCG4yqk8KODA&s=7g5iTlqJ2Iv-NVLY4ZUfmizBJm0kF9JVYwdZWdur2kg&e="
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/<wbr>uwizoologymuseum</a></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Bookman
                        Old Style",serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
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style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                    <div>
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                              lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                            lang="EN-US"> Nhcoll-l [mailto:<a
                              href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l-bounces@<wbr>mailman.yale.edu</a>]
                            <b>On Behalf Of </b>Curtis Schmidt<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Monday, 21 May 2018 18:28<br>
                            <b>To:</b> Lance McBrayer <<a
                              href="mailto:lancemcbrayer@georgiasouthern.edu"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lancemcbrayer@<wbr>georgiasouthern.edu</a>>;
                            <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Accession of
                            rare photo records</span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <div id="m_6387773145541326478divtagdefaultwrapper">
                      <p><span
                          style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Lance,</span></p>
                      <p><span
                          style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
                      <p><span
                          style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">What
                          kept the individual from collecting the
                          non-native species in the first place? I would
                          certainly caution against cataloging an
                          unverifiable photograph because, as you
                          mention, it promotes bad science and poor
                          quality data. It would be different if it was
                          an endangered species, but I see a photograph
                          of very little value in this particular
                          situation. I personally am an advocate of not
                          publishing records based on photographs unless
                          the animals are protected. This is becoming an
                          all too common practice that is irresponsible
                          IMHO. I hope this helps.</span></p>
                      <p><span
                          style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
                      <p><span
                          style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Curtis</span></p>
                      <div id="m_6387773145541326478Signature">
                        <div
                          id="m_6387773145541326478divtagdefaultwrapper">
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">______________________________<wbr>___</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Curtis
                              J. Schmidt</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">    Zoological
                              Collections Manager</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">    Sternberg
                              Museum of Natural History</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">    Instructor</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> 
                                Department of Biological Sciences</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> 
                                Fort Hays State University</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> 
                                3000 Sternberg Drive</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> 
                                Hays, KS  67601</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> 
                                785-650-2447 (cell)</span></p>
                          <p style="background:white"><span
                              style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">______________________________<wbr>__</span></p>
                        </div>
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                    </div>
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                      align="center">
                      <hr size="2" align="center" width="98%">
                    </div>
                    <div id="m_6387773145541326478divRplyFwdMsg">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">
                          Nhcoll-l <<a
                            href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.<wbr>yale.edu</a>>
                          on behalf of Lance McBrayer <<a
                            href="mailto:lancemcbrayer@georgiasouthern.edu"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lancemcbrayer@<wbr>georgiasouthern.edu</a>><br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 21, 2018 3:21:24 PM<br>
                          <b>To:</b> <a
                            href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> [Nhcoll-l] Accession of rare
                          photo records</span> </p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif">All</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif">I curate a
                              herpetology collection of about 35,000
                              specimens, almost all of which are actual
                              specimens. However, I also take definitive
                              photographs such that there is little to
                              no question about the species in the
                              photograph. I am aware of the debate on
                              the value of photographic records, but
                              I've come into an interesting situation.</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif">Recently, a collector
                              I do not know asked to voucher a
                              photograph of an invasive species of
                              tropical frog that is established in
                              Florida, and now Georgia and several other
                              states.  Yet this record is from
                              Massachusetts.  Furthermore, the specimen
                              was photographed in a potted plant in a
                              national chain store of lumber and
                              hardware...in February of 2018.</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif">Clearly the frog was
                              brought there in or on the plant(s). But
                              as such, this record is potentially
                              valuable. This tropical frog species is
                              very likely to have died in the harsh MA
                              winter....but it does well cohabitating
                              with humans...so maybe not. And the store
                              is literally next to a major river. So, if
                              it does survive and disperse, it could
                              move lots of places quickly.</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif">I have contacted four
                              other very knowledgeable herpetologists to
                              confirm my identification, and that of the
                              collector. We all agree it "looks like"
                              the same species; i.e. all five of us
                              agree on the identification.</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif">To accession, or not
                              to accession?  How do we balance the risk
                              of preserving
                              <span
                                style="color:#222222;background:white">high <i><u>quality</u></i> </span>data
                              while at the same documenting potentially
                              important events like this?</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif"> </span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif">Thanks for your
                              insights.</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-family:"Trebuchet
                              MS",sans-serif">lm</span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Lance
                                              D. McBrayer</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Associate
                                              Dean of Faculty &
                                              Research Programs</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span>College
                                              of Science and Mathematics</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Georgia
                                              Southern University</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                              style="font-size:10.0pt">TEL:
                                              912.478.5111</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><u><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#0000ee"><a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__sites.google.com_a_georgiasouthern.edu_lance-2Dd-2Dmcbrayer_&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=X8OZAEBTE3DbHbmuWdsqg9AShDNGf1EHZQbvVr2zrm8&s=nrFiBYQ9akOJWFB-DdBiohFzLRZa6tB2IYJPTWTiE1k&e="
                                                  target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true">Webpage</a></span></u></p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
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</pre>
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    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
Münchhausenstr. 21
81247 München

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMDaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=jGh-cazuJGruYGDQcQ9OJTv48ULF_7TNTm_hCFt2AGw&s=_paeVU8nAOfsZf5CKflb1OU8bn4CNwBOu4SvhJ6GKfo&e=">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a>

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=DwMDaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=jGh-cazuJGruYGDQcQ9OJTv48ULF_7TNTm_hCFt2AGw&s=_paeVU8nAOfsZf5CKflb1OU8bn4CNwBOu4SvhJ6GKfo&e=">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/ich/</a>



</pre>
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