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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We have similar experience at NRM Stockholm, i.e. most certainly paraformaldehyde resulting from too short period in water
prior to first EtOH step (20%). Our geologists did some analyses on the “white stuff” and found no mineral content such as CaCO3 or similar.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Bo Delling<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Phd, Ichthyology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Collection Manager, Zoology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Swedish Museum of Natural History<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Department of Zoology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Frescativägen 44<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">P.O. Box 50007<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">SE-104 05 Stockholm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Phone: +46 85195 4240<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Från:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>För </b>Dirk Neumann<br>
<b>Skickat:</b> den 28 november 2018 11:27<br>
<b>Till:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Ämne:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Precipitate or Mold in Ethanol Stored Specimens<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Alex,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">we (John E. Simmons, Julian Carter and me - in preparation to attend a lecture in Paris next week :-) agree that it would be a good idea to pick one of those nodules and investigate the structure under a binocular; it should be easy to
recognise any crystalline structure if there is any. If you see small white crystals (and your photos look very familiar to us), these would surely be a strong hint for paraformaldehyde, as Simon indicated. Colesterol is a rather a waxy substance, and you
should be able to note the difference immediately.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">with best wishes from us<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(John, Julian an me, currently sticking or heads together and having much fun during our preparations for the Paris meeting next week)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 28.11.2018 um 00:20 schrieb Simon Moore:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Many thanks for this information - it is just what I am lecturing about in Paris next week to raise awareness of this type of problem!
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have often been asked to ID crystal growths and suspensions in fluid-preserved material and the answers (If there are any) are as varied as are the causes of their appearance. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Firstly I often dilute concentrated formalin to the standard 10% fixing strength using local tap water, this offers and usually maintains a neutral pH (7.0 or just a bit below 6.5). If tap water is used to dilute alcohols of any sort,
to preservative strength (70% or 80%) then this produces a precipitate, usually with 24 hours of mixing.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Where fluids combine with animal and plant material during the fixation and preservation stages, they often leach solute by-products into the fluids. Over years the fluid and specimen build to an equilibrium and assuming that no lipid
leaching or similar contamination occurs (the cholesterol for example but isn’t this partly soluble in alcohol?), then this can go unnoticed until the jar is topped up with fresh preservative fluid and then a snow-dome effect can occur - looks terrible but
the specimens are undamaged. Once the ’snow’ has settled and the fluid has cleared (or partially) one can see the effect (if any) this change may have brought about on the specimens but usually it’s slight or no change at all.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Crystals of calcium stearate have been analysed (by FTIR) adhered to specimens - how does that come about? The causes and results can be quite bewildering but a record of treatment/s to specimens is most useful.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Mould (I’m a Brit!) will only start to appear if the concentration of alcohol falls below 30%, similarly it can grow in formalin at c. 2-3% concentration (0.8 - 1% formaldehyde) - these are the critical parameters for mould growth and (it
appears) that only certain species of mould can grow in these conditions.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If anyone has any further thoughts I would be most interested (I only have a week!) Or examples of weird looking contaminants attaching to fluid-preserved material please post these to me off-list but not too many!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">With all good wishes, Simon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR<br>
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<img width="32" height="32" style="width:.3333in;height:.3333in" id="_x0030_74726B1-50CE-4121-AD90-C5319498D02F" src="cid:C1E34A64-2782-4C13-9542-0187237C0047@home"><br style="color:rgb(0, 0,
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><a href="https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1gRx4I-000kIi-4H&i=57e1b682&c=Nvh_lW9NuomOiYQ5D0LJE63BeiRIzePpsAn67R5e4U-D_L_VWsvTS-O4pjsroP6yeyWV4FNjzYsJGWk0fH1RwTvjJoRVUiVrtzfsl0RXIBksNvTUIIRS3BwNprXyhY7xlLWkw7Sxm8Qc16VzHv96sMj-mXIs7OBaX6o5n1fpE4Efccu-Hn71YWPNI7DRiUb6rTzjV4VPCrz-FI08CzUihSvOYXAa5Wl3ChU5d3kD3EQuM56RKJ-vYp2Fm9T-7ZCj">www.natural-history-conservation.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 27 Nov 2018, at 19:23, Lazo-Wasem, Eric <<a href="mailto:eric.lazo-wasem@yale.edu">eric.lazo-wasem@yale.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi Alex,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This is what happens when a specimen fixed in formalin is not rinsed sufficiently in water before immersion in alcohol. Depending on the size of the fixed specimen, one needs
to wash the specimen for anywhere from a few minutes (small crustacea) to several days (large long fixed sponges, fish, etc.). I’ve never tested like Judith Price mentions, but the person who hired me several decades ago cautioned me to rinse specimens in
water before transferring to alcohol else I can expect precipitate. It happened enough that I believe his cautionary note without understanding the chemistry.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best, Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Eric A. Lazo-Wasem<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Senior Collections Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Peabody Museum of Natural History<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yale University<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">170 Whitney Ave.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">New Haven, CT 06520<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="tel:203%20432-3784"><span style="color:purple">203 432-3784</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Nhcoll-l
<<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Alex Krohn<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, November 27, 2018 1:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[Nhcoll-l] Precipitate or Mold in Ethanol Stored Specimens<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I recently found some bizzare white granules in some our ethanol preserved specimens. See the attached photos. The white granules tend to stick to the items in the jar, rather
than rest at the bottom of the jar. They do not crush easily (like I imagine precipitates would), but instead squish more like tiny styrofoam bits or pieces (like I imagine mold would).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Has anyone seen this before? I washed the specimens and jars in fresh 70% EtOH, and then replaced the EtOH in the jar. So far no new granules have appeared. If anyone has any
better ideas of what this might be or how to treat it, I'm very interested.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thank you!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Alex Krohn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">---------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Assistant Director<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Kenneth S. Norris Center for Natural History<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">University of California, Santa Cruz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre>NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>society. See <a href="https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1gRx4I-000kIi-4H&i=57e1b682&c=TKTs_o3UVgL0XPoL76yVb91LRpmqlESaRj37ap1XSnAoHuWGzBN47Oyd7FJquXICU72Tiyl6E9mQVNQ-MGr04SX3T0UxOjDpdmwwgenYIkOXI-5vF7zLA4Qea-tCbquA5fPOOEdB1i9zhbt2MIoRDi8RJHTsMMyJvX4ONg9EFd26j9FA5dVRiTvu4fGQQQweUibkOELkindU-2ylApVaCQ">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: 089 / 8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: 089 / 8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*new email: neumann(a)snsb.de*<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Postanschrift:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Zoologische Staatssammlung München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Münchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1gRx4I-000kIi-4H&i=57e1b682&c=qw5CorYkkeMTTp6cRr_6CF-8k34qeuJnweJBkO83-WoOSKhko2qmwyGdwinzwj-eJp0tRLuCBpRHhfphRkmxOFf89EZizKP9i-BWJtHqOaRktKvaCTbyTnk1_-2gjMGEZBFQxYINB0o2c0cZCJ26mB-8uSwC8TC_tVhlgouE91MwY6Q-RLLDKB_25N3iPecYzWUctlfroQbL284xLVGaYyiR2r1CxeyMTWDI1x_1F4Gz4-lLdvAKpR-8MdXMD8CR">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>---------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: +49-89-8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: +49-89-8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*new email: neumann(a)snsb.de*<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>postal address:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Bavarian Natural History Collections<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Muenchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 Munich (Germany)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Visit our section at:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://url11.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1gRx4I-000kIi-4H&i=57e1b682&c=qw5CorYkkeMTTp6cRr_6CF-8k34qeuJnweJBkO83-WoOSKhko2qmwyGdwinzwj-eJp0tRLuCBpRHhfphRkmxOFf89EZizKP9i-BWJtHqOaRktKvaCTbyTnk1_-2gjMGEZBFQxYINB0o2c0cZCJ26mB-8uSwC8TC_tVhlgouE91MwY6Q-RLLDKB_25N3iPecYzWUctlfroQbL284xLVGaYyiR2r1CxeyMTWDI1x_1F4Gz4-lLdvAKpR-8MdXMD8CR">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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