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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Alex,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">we (John E. Simmons, Julian Carter and
me - in preparation to attend a lecture in Paris next week :-)
agree that it would be a good idea to pick one of those nodules
and investigate the structure under a binocular; it should be easy
to recognise any crystalline structure if there is any. If you see
small white crystals (and your photos look very familiar to us),
these would surely be a strong hint for paraformaldehyde, as Simon
indicated. Colesterol is a rather a waxy substance, and you should
be able to note the difference immediately.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hope this helps,<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">with best wishes from us</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">(John, Julian an me, currently sticking
or heads together and having much fun during our preparations for
the Paris meeting next week)<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 28.11.2018 um 00:20 schrieb Simon
Moore:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5182C07D-A9A5-48B6-AB67-A7DE1D870F2C@btinternet.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Many thanks for this information - it is just what I am lecturing
about in Paris next week to raise awareness of this type of
problem!
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I have often been asked to ID crystal growths and
suspensions in fluid-preserved material and the answers (If
there are any) are as varied as are the causes of their
appearance. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Firstly I often dilute concentrated formalin to the
standard 10% fixing strength using local tap water, this offers
and usually maintains a neutral pH (7.0 or just a bit below
6.5). If tap water is used to dilute alcohols of any sort, to
preservative strength (70% or 80%) then this produces a
precipitate, usually with 24 hours of mixing.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Where fluids combine with animal and plant material
during the fixation and preservation stages, they often leach
solute by-products into the fluids. Over years the fluid and
specimen build to an equilibrium and assuming that no lipid
leaching or similar contamination occurs (the cholesterol for
example but isn’t this partly soluble in alcohol?), then this
can go unnoticed until the jar is topped up with fresh
preservative fluid and then a snow-dome effect can occur - looks
terrible but the specimens are undamaged. Once the ’snow’ has
settled and the fluid has cleared (or partially) one can see the
effect (if any) this change may have brought about on the
specimens but usually it’s slight or no change at all.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Crystals of calcium stearate have been analysed (by
FTIR) adhered to specimens - how does that come about? The
causes and results can be quite bewildering but a record of
treatment/s to specimens is most useful.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Mould (I’m a Brit!) will only start to appear if the
concentration of alcohol falls below 30%, similarly it can grow
in formalin at c. 2-3% concentration (0.8 - 1% formaldehyde) -
these are the critical parameters for mould growth and (it
appears) that only certain species of mould can grow in these
conditions.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If anyone has any further thoughts I would be most
interested (I only have a week!) Or examples of weird looking
contaminants attaching to fluid-preserved material please post
these to me off-list but not too many!</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
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class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
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class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">With all good
wishes, Simon.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
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</div>
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line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Simon Moore
MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR<br class="">
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery
Historian, </div>
</div>
</div>
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class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.natural-history-conservation.com</a> </div>
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<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 27 Nov 2018, at 19:23, Lazo-Wasem, Eric
<<a href="mailto:eric.lazo-wasem@yale.edu" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">eric.lazo-wasem@yale.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi Alex,<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">This is
what happens when a specimen fixed in formalin is not
rinsed sufficiently in water before immersion in
alcohol. Depending on the size of the fixed specimen,
one needs to wash the specimen for anywhere from a few
minutes (small crustacea) to several days (large long
fixed sponges, fish, etc.). I’ve never tested like
Judith Price mentions, but the person who hired me
several decades ago cautioned me to rinse specimens in
water before transferring to alcohol else I can expect
precipitate. It happened enough that I believe his
cautionary note without understanding the chemistry.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Best, Eric<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Eric A.
Lazo-Wasem<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Senior
Collections Manager<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Peabody
Museum of Natural History<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Yale
University<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">170
Whitney Ave.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">New Haven,
CT 06520<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="tel:203%20432-3784" style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">203 432-3784</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b
class="">From:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nhcoll-l <<a
href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Alex
Krohn<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday,
November 27, 2018 1:53 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Nhcoll-l]
Precipitate or Mold in Ethanol Stored Specimens<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi
everyone,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">I recently found some bizzare white
granules in some our ethanol preserved
specimens. See the attached photos. The white
granules tend to stick to the items in the jar,
rather than rest at the bottom of the jar. They
do not crush easily (like I imagine precipitates
would), but instead squish more like tiny
styrofoam bits or pieces (like I imagine mold
would).<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">Has anyone seen this before? I washed
the specimens and jars in fresh 70% EtOH, and
then replaced the EtOH in the jar. So far no new
granules have appeared. If anyone has any better
ideas of what this might be or how to treat it,
I'm very interested.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">Thank you!<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">Alex Krohn<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">---------------------<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">Assistant Director<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">Kenneth S. Norris Center for Natural
History<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">University of California, Santa Cruz<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
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class=""><a
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(SPNHC), an international society whose</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">mission is to improve the
preservation, conservation and management of</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">natural history collections to
ensure their continuing value to</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">society. See <a
href="http://www.spnhc.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for
membership information.</span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Advertising on NH-COLL-L is
inappropriate.</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Nhcoll-l mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l">https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l</a>
_______________________________________________
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.spnhc.org">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dirk Neumann
Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
*new email: neumann(a)snsb.de*
Postanschrift:
Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
Münchhausenstr. 21
81247 München
Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/</a>
---------
Dirk Neumann
Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
*new email: neumann(a)snsb.de*
postal address:
Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)
Visit our section at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/</a>
</pre>
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