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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Greetings Tanya,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Formalin would likely not cross link the proteins and serve no useful purpose after being placed in alcohol. Prior to about 1900 all fluid specimens were preserved directly
in ethanol and prior to that strong brandy. Small specimens aren’t adversely affected except for shrinkage, plus the fact that DNA is still easily obtained from specimens not damaged by formalin. All our larger snake specimens collected prior to 1900 had lengthwise
cuts in the belly to allow alcohol more direct access to alcohol.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Alcohol does not move into the tissues as well as formalin which can penetrate ¼ to ½ inch from either the surface or where ever you inject. Some recent workers prepping small
specimens (Anolis for example) bypass the formalin steps entirely by using alcohol and keeping the specimens in refrigerators for a period of time which slows down decomposition and allows time for alcohol to work. I am told the specimens hold up very well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Stephen P. Rogers (Mr.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Collection Manager of Section of Birds<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">and Section of Amphibians and Reptiles<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Carnegie Museum of Natural History<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">4400 Forbes Avenue<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pittsburgh PA 15213-4080<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Phone: 412-622-3255 or 3258<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Email: rogerss@CarnegieMNH.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.carnegiemnh.org/birds/index.html"><span style="color:black">http://www.carnegiemnh.org/birds/index.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.carnegiemnh.org/herps/index.html"><span style="color:black">http://www.carnegiemnh.org/herps/index.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">**************************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">The views, opinions, and judgments expressed in this message
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">are solely those of the author. The message contents have not
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">been reviewed or approved by Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Julian Carter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 13, 2018 5:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Simon Moore' <couteaufin@btinternet.com>; Tonya.Haff@csiro.au<br>
<b>Cc:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Small herps in ETOH<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Tonya,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I’d simply move to 70% ethanol to balance preservation versus dehydration effects. I don’t see any value taking the specimens back to aqueous formaldehyde
(‘formalin’) once they have been preserved in this way. Ethanol can be treated as a ‘pseudofixative’ due to the way it dehydrates tissues and subsequently alter protein arrangements.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">All the best<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jules<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="CY" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Prif Gadwraethydd, Gwyddorau Naturiol
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="CY" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Principal Conservator Natural Sciences<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="CY" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:julian.carter@amgueddfacymru.ac.uk"><span style="color:#0563C1">julian.carter@amgueddfacymru.ac.uk</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="CY" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:julian.carter@museumwales.ac.uk"><span style="color:#0563C1">julian.carter@museumwales.ac.uk</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="CY" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julian_Carter</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="CY" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">029 20573230<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="CY" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">07870448074</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nhcoll-l [<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Simon Moore<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 December 2018 08:57<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Tonya.Haff@csiro.au">Tonya.Haff@csiro.au</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Small herps in ETOH<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hi Tonya,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">You should be OK to inject the specimens with formalin. Might need to take them down a short hydration ladder to water, then fix overnight (and inject) before taking them back up again into preserving EtOH. I always
maintain a few small tanks for 'intermediate alcohols' for this purpose as it helps to reduce the effect of syneresis (osmotic shrivelling).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">With all good wishes, Simon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR<br>
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<img border="0" width="238" height="320" style="width:2.4791in;height:3.3333in" id="_x0030_328DD48-D1B6-4B80-BFD3-DBE5E9E82B50" src="cid:image001.png@01D492AD.6B695650"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.natural-history-conservation.com">www.natural-history-conservation.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 13 Dec 2018, at 03:56, <<a href="mailto:Tonya.Haff@csiro.au">Tonya.Haff@csiro.au</a>> <<a href="mailto:Tonya.Haff@csiro.au">Tonya.Haff@csiro.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We were recently donated a few salvaged small snakes and lizards (largest is probably ~30 g) that have been chucked directly in alcohol (the lizards 95%, the snake
70%). Normally, I would prep herps in formalin first, and then step into ETOH. Do any of you have recommendations for how best to deal with these specimens to ensure they preserve well long term? Is it too late, or not smart, to fix them in formalin now? The
very small lizards (skinks) seem fine, and have been in their jars for a few years with almost no slippage. The snake has only recently been placed into 70% alcohol.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks for your help!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Tonya<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">---------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dr Tonya Haff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Collections Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Australian National Wildlife Collection<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Canberra, Australia<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Phone:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:(+61)%2002%2062421566"><span style="color:#954F72">(+61) 02 62421566</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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