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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Fabian, dear all,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">don't want to expand this discussion
too much; as John pointed out, just that those jars are
borosilicate jars doesn't render them necessarily a good jar. The
bottom and partially the walls surely are less than 1 mm thick,
and when we checked the jars here in the museum, it seemed that
the annealing was not properly done, as John already pointed out.
The threat on the jar is not continuous and especially in the tall
jars the walls near the neck tend to be thicker and continuously
get thinner to the bottom (likely because the hot glass melt is
not evenly blown into the form).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The prices for the taller jars (> 30
cm) are very close to the properly done borosilicate (stopper jars
and/or flanged cylinders) jars produced by Stoelzle Oberglass or
those done locally here from Schott glass tubes. The Schott tubes
are sold worldwide. Of course you will safe some quids when
purchasing the Vitro jars, but it might be worth considering the
long-term costs as well (replacement, topping up requirements,
increased monitoring, etc.). At the moment, many European
collections see or expect the end of the life span of the famous
Copenhagen jars, which causes massive problems across fluid
collections in Europe, as neither jars or lids can be replaced.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Purchasing 100 mm or 120 mm tall or 300
mm wide jars is not a problem, and our budget line to purchase
jars is rather small. So in the end, it depends on the philosophy
of individual collections, not that much on the budget lines and
availability of jars. The more collections tend to compromise and
accept lower standards, accept increased monitoring requirements
with simultaneous reduced budget lines for staff to do the job,
the more we will loose those companies which provide us with
proper jars that make our lives easier (as they drop out of
business because they can't - and don't want to - compete with
Chinese quality standards.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The bulk of jars we use and need on
daily basis is a cost-efficient replacement anyway. The question
is if we want to afford a little bit more money for larger,
well-manufactured jars, to safe costs in the long run.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Cheers,<br>
Dirk<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.09.2019 um 08:31 schrieb
Neisskenwirth Fabian:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8f36a36c54154e2aab322713a98dc724@nmbe.ch">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">I’m working with these borosilicate jars very
intensively and I really can’t complain so much. It’s true
that they are very thin and that this was not the aim when
it was sent to production. But still it’s much better than
regular soda-lime jars (because it borosilicate). The
producer is called Vitro. It’s a small German company that
makes Laser imprinting… Somehow a colleague got them to
produce museum jars. This thin jars are the result, they
still need improvement (specially the thin bottom), but in
my opinion, it’s the beginning for a new museum jar. Where
else can you get long jars up to 40 cm with Twist off
opening off 82mm or 100mm.?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Maybe some other company could take the effort
to produce the same jars in better quality?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Cheers from Bern,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">--<br>
<b>Fabian Neisskenwirth</b><br>
Präparation<br>
Naturwissenschaftlicher Präparator<br>
<br>
+41 (0)31 350 72 35<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
href="http://www.nmbe.ch/" moz-do-not-send="true"><b><span
style="color:black;text-decoration:none"
lang="EN-US">NATURHISTORISCHES MUSEUM BERN</span></b><span
style="color:black;text-decoration:none" lang="EN-US"><br>
Bernastrasse 15, CH – 3005 Bern<br>
www.nmbe.</span><span
style="color:black;text-decoration:none">ch</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
href="https://www.bgbern.ch/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:black;text-decoration:none">Eine
Institution der Burgergemeinde Bern</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="DE"> Nhcoll-l
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Dirk Neumann<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 8. September 2019 17:30<br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] glass storage for fluid
collections<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">A bit late, but I agree with John; we
have recently seen borosilicate twist-off jars which are
apparently produced in China and are rather expensive
compared when the enter the market in Europe - compared to
normal (soda-lime) glass jars used produced for food
industry. The main issue is (and John likely referred to
this) that the glass wall especially at the bottom of some
those jars was very very thin, leading to spontaneous
cracking of jars when filled and lifted up or after jars
where placed on shelves in the storage area.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All the best<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dirk <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 05.09.2019 um 21:07 schrieb John E
Simmons:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">It
is important to find out where the glass is
manufactured, and make sure they send you a sample of
each size to test. There is a lot of glassware
entering the market from China and other countries
that is not properly annealed and thus much more
fragile than the soda-lime glass we are all used to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">--John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br
clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">John
E. Simmons<br>
Writer and
Museum
Consultant</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Museologica<br>
<i>and</i><br>
Associate
Curator of
Collections<br>
Earth and
Mineral
Science Museum
& Art
Gallery<br>
Penn State
University<br>
<i>and</i><br>
Investigador
Asociado,
Departamento
de Ornitologia<br>
Museo de
Historia
Natural,
Universidad
Nacional Mayor
de San Marcos,
Lima</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 2:22 PM
Gartner, Heidi RBCM:EX <<a
href="mailto:HGartner@royalbcmuseum.bc.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true">HGartner@royalbcmuseum.bc.ca</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<pre><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-CA">Hello,</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-CA"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-CA">I’ve recently sourced a new potential provider for glass jars for our fluid collection. However, the cost is so cheap I am suspect of the quality of the jars. I’ve asked them to send some spec sheets and I am wondering what the best features for long term storage that I should look for? Is soda lime glass acceptable?</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-CA"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-CA">Thank you for the feedback or direction to recent resources!</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA">______________________________________________________________________________________________</span></b><span
lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA">Heidi Gartner, M.Sc.
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Times
New Roman , serif","serif""
lang="EN-CA">
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA">Collection Manager and Researcher,
Invertebrates | Collections, Care and
Conservation</span><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,
serif","serif"" lang="EN-CA">
</span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Univers LT Pro 55 ,
sans-serif","serif"" lang="EN-CA">R</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Univers
LT Pro 55 , sans-serif","serif""
lang="EN-CA">OYAL</span><span
style="font-family:"Univers LT Pro 55 ,
sans-serif","serif"" lang="EN-CA">
</span><span lang="EN-CA">BC</span><span
style="font-family:"Univers LT Pro 55 ,
sans-serif","serif"" lang="EN-CA">
M</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Univers
LT Pro 55 , sans-serif","serif""
lang="EN-CA">USEUM</span><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman ,
serif","serif"" lang="EN-CA"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA">Traditional Territory of the
Lekwungen (Songhees and Xwsepsum Nations)<br>
675 Belleville Street, Victoria, BC Canada V8W
9W2 </span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA">
</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman , serif","serif""
lang="EN-CA"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA">T 250 387-2932
</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA"><br>
<a href="mailto:HGartner@royalbcmuseum.bc.ca"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt">HGartner@royalbcmuseum.bc.ca</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-CA"> | </span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue"
lang="EN-CA"><a href="https://royalbcmuseum.bc.ca"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt">royalbcmuseum.bc.ca</span>
</a></span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue"
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue"
lang="EN-CA"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><br>
Join us on:<a
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style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Univers
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style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> <br>
</span><span lang="EN-CA"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#212121;background:white"
lang="EN-CA">See the astonishing Maya treasures
from Guatemala’s National Museum and La Ruta Maya
at
<b><i>Maya: The Great Jaguar Rises, </i></b>open
now until Dec. 31</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";background:white"
lang="EN-CA">, 2019</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#212121;background:white"
lang="EN-CA">. Purchase tickets <a
href="https://sales.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Expresscheckout.aspx?item=35&exhibition=maya"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
now</a>. </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-CA">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-CA"> </span><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
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href="https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the
Preservation of<br>
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international
society whose<br>
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and
management of<br>
natural history collections to ensure their continuing
value to<br>
society. See <a href="http://www.spnhc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.spnhc.org</a>
for membership information.<br>
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nhcoll-l mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>society. See <a href="http://www.spnhc.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: 089 / 8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: 089 / 8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*new email: neumann(a)snsb.de*<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Postanschrift:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Zoologische Staatssammlung München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Münchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 München<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>---------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel: +49-89-8107-111<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: +49-89-8107-300<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*new email: neumann(a)snsb.de*<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>postal address:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Bavarian Natural History Collections<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Muenchhausenstr. 21<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>81247 Munich (Germany)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Visit our section at:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dirk Neumann
Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
*new email: neumann(a)snsb.de*
Postanschrift:
Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
Münchhausenstr. 21
81247 München
Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/</a>
---------
Dirk Neumann
Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
*new email: neumann(a)snsb.de*
postal address:
Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)
Visit our section at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/</a>
</pre>
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