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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Hey there,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">I totally agree with Dirks statement. Glass lids are much more stable than any other kind of material used in fluid collections.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">I would like to share my experience with a sort of new jar type from Duran® (former Schott). They have a product line called “GLS 80” jars. It has a mouth opening of 80 mm, but the size varies from
500ml to 25000 ml. The mouth opening works very well for smaller specimens.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">The jars are made of borosilicate and sold at an affordable price, because they are made for the pharma industry. This is why they also have “filling marks”, which esthetically speaking is not so
nice, but it still fulfills the purpose of the jar. One of the sales agents of DWK (Duran Group), offered me that at a certain amount of jars, there could be a batch (around 1000 jars) made without “filling marks”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">There is a new type of lid for this jars too, made of Polysulfone (PSU) with a PTFE coated silicone liner.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">The Duran Group works worldwide, so if you have any questions regarding this contact Eric Lehnen (<a href="mailto:eric.lehnen@dwk.com">eric.lehnen@dwk.com</a>). He knows about the use of the jars
for collections purpose.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">This seems to be a very good improvement to move away from poor quality “sausage jars” with fast degrading lids.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">I have made a one year aging test with three jars with ethanol 70% mixed with a buffered formaldehyde solution 3,4% (9:1) and have seen no negative reactions on the lids. But this still should be
tested more thoroughly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Hope this helps you out!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:DE">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:DE"> Nhcoll-l [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Dirk Neumann<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 20. November 2020 09:10<br>
<b>An:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Jar liners<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Tonya & Lennart,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p>I guess there are several layers to unfold here:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Foamed liners - like the F217 liners you mention - consist of a foamed cell structure which - if the lid is screwed down tight - is compressed again the neck of the jar. This outs the cells under pressure and closed cells would withstand this tension better
then open cell structures. It is hard to tell if the F217 liners you mention has open or closed cells, which gas is used for filling of the foam structure, etc. Even if the F217 liners would have the right composition, right thickness, closed cells - it still
a is compressible gasket which has a limited life span. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>To produce a good closure, you would further need to consider the threads on the jar (continuous or not), the composition of the lid itself (the best liner does not help if the plastic used for the lid itself is of poor quality, etc. Most important seems
to me that sizes of such lids are standardised (rather then customised for specific jars), so that they can easily be replaced if they fail. This is one of the huge problems many collections with Copehagen jars now face after plastic lids reached the end of
their life span, sized where customised, company went out of production: it is virtually impossible to replace these lids - which causes huge problems in many collections.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It seems that F217 and PTFE liners are often used as inlays for Phenolic caps (Bakelite) - which is a no-go in fluid collections because this sort of thermoset plastics is easily degraded by residual formaldehyde escaping from formaldehyde preserved specimens,
even if they have been transferred in to alcohol. As said: the best liner is worthless if the plastic lid itself is unsuited.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In general, plastic lids are not a good oxygen barrier - this is also worth remembering, especially if specimens inside such jars release a lot of fats or oils.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Rather then concentrating on specific lids I would look into jars that are designed for the pharmaceutical sector. Here, both the jar (soda-lime glass) and the lid are expected (and usually tested) to withstand a wide range of chemicals AND to provide a
good barrier against oxygen.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>There are different suppliers of such jars, the disadvantage of the wide mouth jars however is that the largest opening in these jars is 65 mm. So a good option for for 100 - 1000 ml jars, but not for larger jars. Stölzle (who also produce high quality
borosilicate stoppered jars) is a possible source for such jars, but there are many others as well:
<a href="https://pharma.stoelzle.com/en/product_category/weithalsglaser/">https://pharma.stoelzle.com/en/product_category/weithalsglaser/</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>So as mostly no clear cut answer, but hopefully one that is useful.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>All the best<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Dirk<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 20.11.2020 um 00:29 schrieb Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace):<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I know I’ve asked about this before, but may I please clarify again…. Does anyone have preference regarding PTFE (e.g. Teflon, I believe) lid liners vs F217 liners, which are layered polyethylene (as far as I understand). Can anyone give
me advice as to what would be better as a lid liner for specimens kept in 70-90% EtOH? Advice very appreciated!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tonya<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">---------------------------------------------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">Dr Tonya Haff</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">Collections Manager</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">Australian National Wildlife Collection</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">Canberra, Australia
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">Phone: (+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">(+61) 0419 569 109 (mobile)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:DE"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:DE">--
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Dirk Neumann<br>
<br>
Tel: 089 / 8107-111<br>
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---------<br>
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Dirk Neumann<br>
<br>
Tel: +49-89-8107-111<br>
Fax: +49-89-8107-300<br>
neumann(a)snsb.de<br>
<br>
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<br>
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