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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Rob & all,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I know that many like bail top jars (or
have limited alternatives). But I am not a fan either (for the
same reasons Rob mentioned).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Roughly around the time I started here
in Munich back in 1999, I made a test with a failed bail top jar,
tossed the gasket & clamp, and placed the glass lid with (at
this time still) vaseline on top again. This worked remarkably
well, zero evaporation loss until today, the grease was applied to
the horizontal flange and vertical neck of the joint.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">An easy way to convert a bail top jar
into a pure glass jar with flanged glass closure - maybe worth
testing?</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Uneven glass surface & removal of
sticky gaskets / silicone: a fine brass-brush attachment on a
drilling machine with modest speed does an excellent job here.
Some cleaning afterwards to remove golden brass glance (otherwise
some green copper stains may appear in the long run). The brass is
soft enough to not scratch the glass ... <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">All the best</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dirk<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 20.11.2020 um 15:54 schrieb Rob
Robins:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Folks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Would like to contribute an observation on
the bail top jars – I agree that the seals are excellent at
resisting evaporation, with a major caveat: the gaskets
deteriorate (at least gaskets of the type that came to us via
a large relinquished collection in the 1980s).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">See image 1.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nearly all bail tops in our care require a
levering tool to break the seal between glass and gasket
(>90%), such as a stout short-bladed paint scraper. Using
the tool safely takes knowhow and dexterity (brute force will
work but with the attendant risk of impaling one’s hand with
the tool – and thus is strongly cautioned against).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">See image 2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Following jar opening, old gaskets on these
old bail tops at UF are unredeemable (99% of the time).
Exposed parts of the gasket are usually brittle and flake
away, while the gasket that comprised the seal that lasted
decades may be fully or partly molded to the jar – totally
affixed. This latter circumstance renders the jar worthless,
as no replacement gasket can be placed upon such an irregular
surface.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">See images 3 and 4.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For these reasons and others, whenever we
work with bail top specimen lots, we replace the jars with
screw top containers -- usually at a space savings (note
Paul’s comment about a limited offering of rather large
sizes).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If the above situation is only avoided with
regular replacement of gaskets – that needs to be considered
as ongoing maintenance costs associated with the use of this
jar type.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But perhaps local conditions have not
always been ideal and thus the gaskets degraded more rapidly
than they do under ideal conditions. If so, that also should
be considered by those collections whose facilities can’t
always meet optimal conditions. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It could also be our gaskets are of an
inferior material, since improved upon or replaced by
manufacturers of these containers systems.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am unclear on these points and look
forward to learning more.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Rob<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Robert H. Robins<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Collection Manager<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Division of Ichthyology<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img
style="width:1.6145in;height:.5833in" id="_x0000_i1029"
src="cid:part1.F2254CE5.B2C93CAC@snsb.de" alt="FLMNH
Fishes logo email small" class="" width="155" height="56"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Florida Museum of Natural History<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1659 Museum Rd.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Gainesville, FL 32611-7800<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Office: (352) 273-1957<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Search the Collection:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="http://specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">http://specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Search samples suitable for dna analysis:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img
style="width:2.1458in;height:3.0729in"
id="Picture_x0020_4"
src="cid:part5.901F5379.A4B1EBEF@snsb.de" class=""
width="206" height="295" border="0">
<img style="width:1.6666in;height:1.1145in"
id="Picture_x0020_3"
src="cid:part6.DEAC2DD8.05C2CAB9@snsb.de" class=""
width="160" height="107" border="0"><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"><nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu></a> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Callomon,Paul<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 20, 2020 8:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Neisskenwirth, Fabian
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Fabian.Neisskenwirth@ruhrmuseum.de"><Fabian.Neisskenwirth@ruhrmuseum.de></a>;
'<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:neumann@snsb.de">neumann@snsb.de</a>' <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:neumann@snsb.de"><neumann@snsb.de></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Jar liners<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#FA4616">[External
Email]</span></b>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:JA">We
recently overhauled our 50,000-jar alcohol collection for
the first time in 50 years. We found the following things
for lids on screw-top jars:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:JA">Steel lids are
problematic. Ours were painted black on the outside and
cadmium-plated inside with solid plastic seals. The
seals had almost all held, but the lids themselves had
pinpoint rusting from the inside due to condensation. If
those pinpoints get through the metal, the lid is more
likely to fail. We’ve replaced them all.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:JA">PPE lids with either
solid PPE disks or F217 liners are both fine. We started
using them in the 1980s (PPE disks) and 1990s (F217) and
both have lasted well, with a failure rate below 1%<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:JA">Phenolic lids with
coneseal liners – very good. Bakelite and phenolic lids
with food-grade-paper (coated or foil-laminated card)
liners – high failure rate. We replaced them all.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:JA">Note that there is a
difference between pure phenolic resin and Bakelite. The
latter has wood dust mixed with the resin, and always
fails over time, often suddenly and completely. You can
usually tell the difference by the gloss, color and
size; Bakelite is not as black or as glossy as phenolic.
If it’s over 50 mm in diameter it’s likely to be
Bakelite.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:JA">However, as Dirk points
out, although phenolic resin is fine with ethanol it can
be affected by formaldehyde. We have also found that
phenolic will leach dark color into alcohol if it is
immersed for more than a year, so it’s clearly not
entirely stable to ethanol either.
<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:JA">Finally,
though they are not available in small sizes the most
stable and economical jars in our collection are bale jars
with galvanized steel bale clips and either natural
rubber, butyl or neoprene gaskets (e. g. “Ball”-brand
jars). These effectively never fail. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:JA">Paul
Callomon MSc</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:JA"><br>
<i>Collection Manager, Malacology and General
Invertebrates</i></span><span
style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white" align="center">
<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:JA">
<hr width="100%" size="2" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:JA">Academy
of Natural Sciences of Drexel University, Philadelphia<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:JA">1900
Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA<br>
<i><a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">prc44@drexel.edu</span></a>
Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170</i></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="mso-fareast-language:JA">From:</span></b><span
style="mso-fareast-language:JA"> Nhcoll-l <<a
href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Neisskenwirth, Fabian<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 20, 2020 4:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> '<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:neumann@snsb.de">neumann@snsb.de</a>' <<a
href="mailto:neumann@snsb.de" moz-do-not-send="true">neumann@snsb.de</a>>;
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Jar liners<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:100.0%;margin-left:.5in" width="100%"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
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<td style="border:none;border-left:solid goldenrod
3.0pt;background:cornsilk;padding:0in 3.0pt 0in 3.0pt">
<p><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-variant:small-caps">External.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">Hey there,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">I totally agree with Dirks
statement. Glass lids are much more stable than any
other kind of material used in fluid collections.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">I would like to share my
experience with a sort of new jar type from Duran®
(former Schott). They have a product line called “GLS
80” jars. It has a mouth opening of 80 mm, but the size
varies from 500ml to 25000 ml. The mouth opening works
very well for smaller specimens.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">The jars are made of borosilicate
and sold at an affordable price, because they are made
for the pharma industry. This is why they also have
“filling marks”, which esthetically speaking is not so
nice, but it still fulfills the purpose of the jar. One
of the sales agents of DWK (Duran Group), offered me
that at a certain amount of jars, there could be a batch
(around 1000 jars) made without “filling marks”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">There is a new type of lid for
this jars too, made of Polysulfone (PSU) with a PTFE
coated silicone liner.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">The Duran Group works worldwide,
so if you have any questions regarding this contact Eric
Lehnen (<a href="mailto:eric.lehnen@dwk.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">eric.lehnen@dwk.com</a>). He
knows about the use of the jars for collections purpose.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">This seems to be a very good
improvement to move away from poor quality “sausage
jars” with fast degrading lids.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">I have made a one year aging test
with three jars with ethanol 70% mixed with a buffered
formaldehyde solution 3,4% (9:1) and have seen no
negative reactions on the lids. But this still should be
tested more thoroughly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D">Hope this helps you out!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE">Fabian
Neisskenwirth<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE">Zoologischer
Präparator<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE">MA
Student Restaurierung und Kon</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE"
lang="DE">servierung von Kulturgut<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE"
lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE"
lang="DE">+49 (0) 201 24681 470<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE"
lang="DE">Stiftung Ruhr Museum<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE"
lang="DE">Fritz-Schupp-Allee 15<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE"
lang="DE">45141 Essen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DE"
lang="DE"><a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.ruhrmuseum.de-252F-26data-3D04-257C01-257Cprc44-2540drexel.edu-257C97d4cbe4227a49e36f4408d88d33ed2f-257C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6-257C0-257C1-257C637414601473720399-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3D0nUb6Zz4DTtn0E8-252FObkZeZTlVyUuyYfay7x2hwao2rI-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAw&c=sJ6xIWYx-zLMB3EPkvcnVg&r=MCIx6IevDpZN7oPx8SAIb6_HvqHJFo2if2SZHHR4kiQ&m=l9JlcM7_nU8aLp6602DXtUY6Mz33LJxiR7NZEcW-cPU&s=R72J3lQxeJwdDx0n9cdFIz0qjvB2Tp2tFgX2vP8tJtA&e="
moz-do-not-send="true">www.ruhrmuseum.de</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="color:#1F497D" lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:DE"
lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:DE"
lang="DE"> Nhcoll-l [<a
href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Dirk Neumann<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 20. November 2020 09:10<br>
<b>An:</b> <a
href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Jar liners<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE">Hi Tonya & Lennart,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">I guess there
are several layers to unfold here:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">Foamed liners -
like the F217 liners you mention - consist of a foamed
cell structure which - if the lid is screwed down tight
- is compressed again the neck of the jar. This outs the
cells under pressure and closed cells would withstand
this tension better then open cell structures. It is
hard to tell if the F217 liners you mention has open or
closed cells, which gas is used for filling of the foam
structure, etc. Even if the F217 liners would have the
right composition, right thickness, closed cells - it
still a is compressible gasket which has a limited life
span.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">To produce a
good closure, you would further need to consider the
threads on the jar (continuous or not), the composition
of the lid itself (the best liner does not help if the
plastic used for the lid itself is of poor quality, etc.
Most important seems to me that sizes of such lids are
standardised (rather then customised for specific jars),
so that they can easily be replaced if they fail. This
is one of the huge problems many collections with
Copehagen jars now face after plastic lids reached the
end of their life span, sized where customised, company
went out of production: it is virtually impossible to
replace these lids - which causes huge problems in many
collections.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">It seems that
F217 and PTFE liners are often used as inlays for
Phenolic caps (Bakelite) - which is a no-go in fluid
collections because this sort of thermoset plastics is
easily degraded by residual formaldehyde escaping from
formaldehyde preserved specimens, even if they have been
transferred in to alcohol. As said: the best liner is
worthless if the plastic lid itself is unsuited.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">In general,
plastic lids are not a good oxygen barrier - this is
also worth remembering, especially if specimens inside
such jars release a lot of fats or oils.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">Rather then
concentrating on specific lids I would look into jars
that are designed for the pharmaceutical sector. Here,
both the jar (soda-lime glass) and the lid are expected
(and usually tested) to withstand a wide range of
chemicals AND to provide a good barrier against oxygen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">There are
different suppliers of such jars, the disadvantage of
the wide mouth jars however is that the largest opening
in these jars is 65 mm. So a good option for for 100 -
1000 ml jars, but not for larger jars. Stölzle (who
also produce high quality borosilicate stoppered jars)
is a possible source for such jars, but there are many
others as well:
<a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fpharma.stoelzle.com-252Fen-252Fproduct-5Fcategory-252Fweithalsglaser-252F-26data-3D04-257C01-257Cprc44-2540drexel.edu-257C97d4cbe4227a49e36f4408d88d33ed2f-257C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6-257C0-257C1-257C637414601473730392-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DhC1jgMeeoV9txtIntv14ALQRAqC1-252Fcf6qs2jE-252FjX9i8-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAw&c=sJ6xIWYx-zLMB3EPkvcnVg&r=MCIx6IevDpZN7oPx8SAIb6_HvqHJFo2if2SZHHR4kiQ&m=l9JlcM7_nU8aLp6602DXtUY6Mz33LJxiR7NZEcW-cPU&s=890QTyfhF5KDssZAA7H2Sh9ed85K0vheeediMQ3eOPE&e="
moz-do-not-send="true">
https://pharma.stoelzle.com/en/product_category/weithalsglaser/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">So as mostly no
clear cut answer, but hopefully one that is useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">All the best<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">Dirk<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE">Am 20.11.2020 um 00:29 schrieb Haff, Tonya
(NCMI, Crace):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE">I know I’ve asked about this before, but may
I please clarify again…. Does anyone have preference
regarding PTFE (e.g. Teflon, I believe) lid liners vs
F217 liners, which are layered polyethylene (as far as
I understand). Can anyone give me advice as to what
would be better as a lid liner for specimens kept in
70-90% EtOH? Advice very appreciated!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE">Tonya<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="DE">---------------------------------------------------------</span><span
lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="DE">Dr Tonya
Haff</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="DE">Collections
Manager</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="DE">Australian
National Wildlife Collection</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="DE">National
Research Collections Australia, CSIRO</span><span
lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="DE">Canberra,
Australia
</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="DE">Phone:
(+61) 02 6242 1566 (office)</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU" lang="DE">(+61)
0419 569 109 (mobile)</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">Nhcoll-l mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">society. See <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.spnhc.org-252F-26data-3D04-257C01-257Cprc44-2540drexel.edu-257C97d4cbe4227a49e36f4408d88d33ed2f-257C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6-257C0-257C1-257C637414601473740390-257CUnknown-257CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0-253D-257C2000-26sdata-3DBCan2eqp8YBZtf1Zlwzd8l0bpP2hN-252Bz4Gz7PhAIyck0-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMFAw&c=sJ6xIWYx-zLMB3EPkvcnVg&r=MCIx6IevDpZN7oPx8SAIb6_HvqHJFo2if2SZHHR4kiQ&m=l9JlcM7_nU8aLp6602DXtUY6Mz33LJxiR7NZEcW-cPU&s=nBoOO0D5wednTKEvQMJRPslW7bpyDVj7eS2s5YcfYyA&e=" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE">Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-language:DE" lang="DE">--
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="DE"><img
style="width:1.5833in;height:.6145in"
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src="cid:part19.0538B8F0.E5C22F68@snsb.de" class=""
width="152" height="59" border="0"></span><span
lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><span
lang="DE"><br>
Dirk Neumann<br>
<br>
Tel: 089 / 8107-111<br>
Fax: 089 / 8107-300<br>
neumann(a)snsb.de<br>
<br>
Postanschrift:<br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/</a><br>
<br>
---------<br>
<br>
Dirk Neumann<br>
<br>
Tel: +49-89-8107-111<br>
Fax: +49-89-8107-300<br>
neumann(a)snsb.de<br>
<br>
postal address:<br>
<br>
Bavarian Natural History Collections<br>
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology<br>
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage<br>
Muenchhausenstr. 21<br>
81247 Munich (Germany)<br>
<br>
Visit our section at:<br>
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</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<p><img src="cid:part22.74705E47.2F636D38@snsb.de" alt=""
width="152" height="59"></p>
<p><br>
Dirk Neumann<br>
<br>
Tel: 089 / 8107-111<br>
Fax: 089 / 8107-300<br>
neumann(a)snsb.de<br>
<br>
Postanschrift:<br>
<br>
Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns<br>
Zoologische Staatssammlung München<br>
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81247 München<br>
<br>
Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:<br>
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<br>
---------<br>
<br>
Dirk Neumann<br>
<br>
Tel: +49-89-8107-111<br>
Fax: +49-89-8107-300<br>
neumann(a)snsb.de<br>
<br>
postal address:<br>
<br>
Bavarian Natural History Collections<br>
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology<br>
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage<br>
Muenchhausenstr. 21<br>
81247 Munich (Germany)<br>
<br>
Visit our section at:<br>
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