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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Paul,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I think this strongly depends on the
recipe: we found 5 different, three of which include addition of
saturated (40%) formaldehyde solution. If it would be one of those
three, the initial formaldehyde addition should be detectable
(e.g. through test strips for formaldehyde).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Another point keeping in mind surely is
the osmolarity of the solution, if you move fragile marine
invertebrates from phenoxetol into something else (Simon cautioned
and mentioned this earlier); but as Tonya was specifically asking
for birds in phenoxetol, I thought this would be less relevant.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">What has been observed repeatedly in
the past (in larger vertebrates) is complete maceration of
specimens (which can happen at a sudden, even if specimens were
closely monitored). View from that end, I am not sure how well the
DNA would be preserved anyway, especially because all recipes we
found have up to 80 parts of water (or more). I would assume that
this would case strong hydrolysis of the DNA helix right from the
start, at least this would be intuitive, but I am really guessing
here, and others might have more details or knowledge on this.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">But you definitely raise an important
point that is definitely worth considering, before you attempt to
re-fix specimens with formaldehyde (which were previously in a
formaldehyde-free preservative)!</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">With best wishes</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dirk<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 12.11.2021 um 14:14 schrieb
Callomon,Paul:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dirk: do you know (or does anyone else) the
effect of Phenoxyethanol on DNA? If it does not degrade it,
then we should be aware that refixing in formalin will and
that snips should thus be taken ahead of that stage if future
gene work is contemplated. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Paul Callomon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Collection Manager,
Malacology and General Invertebrates<i><o:p></o:p></i></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white" align="center">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
<hr width="100%" size="2" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Academy of Natural
Sciences of Drexel University</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">1900 Benjamin Franklin
Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA<br>
<i><a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">prc44@drexel.edu</span></a> Tel
215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170</i><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b>
Nhcoll-l <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"><nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dirk Neumann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 12, 2021 2:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Phenoxyethanol<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:100.0%;margin-left:.5in" width="100%"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="border:none;border-left:solid goldenrod
3.0pt;background:cornsilk;padding:0in 3.0pt 0in 3.0pt">
<p><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-variant:small-caps">External.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Dear Tonya,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">several
recipes exist and have been used in collections since the
mid 1950ies, mainly for marine invertebrates, but no only.
Simon Moore
<a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.natsca.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fpublications%2Fbooks%2FFluid%2520Preservation.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C939afca06c0f4ba50f7808d9a5b1b4fa%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C1%7C637723004955162859%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qOGYqNfaSmkouCEmUgptIcSpMtYrAfsHwXyVltDMx%2F0%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">
published</a> on it back in 1999 and colleagues from the
NHM in London may chip-in.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">John Simmons
also has a own section on phenoxetol in his
<a
href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frowman.com%2FISBN%2F9781442229662%2FFluid-Preservation-A-Comprehensive-Reference&data=04%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C939afca06c0f4ba50f7808d9a5b1b4fa%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C1%7C637723004955172856%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=HeuQSswtm30y5pq9UpmfuknnVezf9Z0gmg68WTRCIWo%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">
Fluid Preservation book</a> (pages 69-70)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">The
recommendation we give in our forthcoming book is that
specimens from phenoxetol should first be re-fixed in a 4%
formaldehyde solution for few days (depending on specimen
size, body mass etc.) and then stepped up from 30-50-70%
EtOH. This seems to have worked fine, but this experience
so far refers exclusively to elasmobranchs, which tend to
behave slightly different to fixatives and preservatives
compared to, for example, bony fish (likely because of the
cartilage). Close monitoring during stepping specimens up
surely is advised.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hope this
helps<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Dirk<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Am 12.11.2021
um 01:43 schrieb Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace):<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">We just come upon
some bird specimens in our collection that have been
preserved with Phenoxyethanol. There are no notes on
its concentration. The fluid needs to be changed over.
I think we should change it to 70% ETOH, but I am not
sure if we should slowly step up the concentration, or
if another solution would be preferable?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Tonya<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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Dirk Neumann<br>
<br>
Tel: +49-89-8107-111<br>
Fax: +49-89-8107-300<br>
neumann(a)snsb.de<br>
<br>
postal address:<br>
<br>
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The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology<br>
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage<br>
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81247 Munich (Germany)<br>
<br>
Visit our section at:<br>
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