<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Following on Dirk's comments, if you are storing specimens in fluid on compactors, there is no need to have seals between the carriages and in any case, the shelving should be an open design (e.g., wire shelves or 50% penetrated shelves) to allow sprinklers to penetrate through them.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">The problem with any dense storage system is monitoring of individual specimens and containers--it is the same problem whether they are on compactors or fixed shelving. We are all being faced with moves to denser and denser storage due to growing collections and stagnant space allotments. Compactors have the huge advantage in dense storage in that you can more easily design narrow carriages so that you can inspect containers from either side of the shelves. We found at KU that moving the compactors to get access to the specimens was not a serious problem in terms of time or effort, and we gained more storage space with a dense storage system that could be more easily monitored. That said, I still think the most of the shelves at KU are too deep. If you have more than one row of jars on the shelf, it is difficult to see the specimens in the second and third row back (etc., etc.). What we really need is a new design for fluid collection shelving that allows collection managers to monitor the containers without having to move any of the jars. It is the repeated removal and replacement of jars that causes most of the problems of container misplacement and loose seals, not vibrations of moving compactors. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">The first concern for any dense shelving system for natural history specimens should be ease of monitoring. Too often in planning the time used by the collection care staff to take care of the collection is not factored in to the equation. This has to change.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br clear="all"></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">John E. Simmons<br>Writer and Museum Consultant</span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Museologica<br><i>and</i><br>Associate Curator of Collections<br>Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery<br>Penn State University<br><i>and</i><br>Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia<br>Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima</span></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 10:46 AM Dirk Neumann <<a href="mailto:neumann@snsb.de">neumann@snsb.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>... adding to Paul's comment, fire
risks may increase if the compactors are "closed" allow alcohol
fumes to build up. Also worth considering is potentially spillage
from moving the compactors or compromising of seals, especially if
the compactors are automated (which adds potential ignition
sources on various levels, i.e. control panels, motors). John just
commented on speed and wheel size. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, in case of fire or other
emergency (and/or power failure), closed isles are hardly
accessible ...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So a lot of pros and cons. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Another piece for Rob's <i>altar of
constraints</i> is that with compacting you actually do not
create more space, but agree to crowd objects to an
affordable/manageable maximum. This minimises (already in the
first place limited) possibilities and options for required
investments in new storage buildings to gain space for growing
collections. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With best wishes</div>
<div>Dirk <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Am 15.12.2021 um 15:35 schrieb
Callomon,Paul:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Lucia’s comments reminded me of another
major caveat about compactors: if you’re planning on using
them for wet collections, at least in the USA, check with your
fire marshal and insurers first. As she pointed out, in a
serious fire a compacted wet collection without sufficient
venting is an enormous fuel-air bomb. Ethanol burns fairly
quickly anyway, but if it’s pre-heated before encountering a
flame, weakening or even popping the lids and filling the
compactor with vapor, then an explosion becomes more likely
and the whole building could go. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Paul Callomon<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Collection Manager,
Malacology and General Invertebrates<i><u></u><u></u></i></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center;background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%" align="center">
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">
<hr width="100%" size="2" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Academy of Natural
Sciences of Drexel University</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">1900 Benjamin Franklin
Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA<br>
<i><a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">prc44@drexel.edu</span></a> Tel
215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170</i><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><b>From:</b>
Nhcoll-l <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank"><nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:rapp@inpa.gov.br" target="_blank">rapp@inpa.gov.br</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 15, 2021 9:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Douglas Yanega <a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com" target="_blank"><dyanega@gmail.com></a>;
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Compactors in collections<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<table style="width:100%;margin-left:0.5in" width="100%" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor goldenrod;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 3pt;background:cornsilk none repeat scroll 0% 0%;padding:0in 3pt">
<p><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-variant:small-caps">External.<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I
can't resist to add my comments after Douglas.<br>
<br>
Yes, you have "literally to breathe down the necks of
the people from the compactor company "! This expression
is great and it was exactly my experience. Although I
received the visitation of an engineer in compactors,
the project assembled by them made me order for half
extra budget of complements! The shelves came with an
internal "channel" designed to keep the rigidity of the
shelf, however, for alcohol collections the jars could
turn!!! So, I had to order extra covers for these
channels. I also had to order extra steel bars for
protection to avoid the jars to fall from the shelves.
The initial project reduced the number of shelves from 6
to 5 despite of all my observations. I had to order
extra shelves and connections. Maybe it was just local
incompetence, but compactor companies may be not
familiar with our kind of storaged material.<br>
<br>
I ended up gaining approx. 40% of space, what was great.
I also order for holes, small openings, on the top
shelves, to avoid excessive heat during fires. One of
our Brazilian collections (Butantan) lost all the
material inside compactors during a fire because the
material "cooked" inside and the cabinets would not role
with the heat. I hope I will never have to test if this
idea will work or not...<br>
<br>
cheers<br>
<br>
Lucia Rapp Py-Daniel<br>
Fish Colelction - INPA<br>
Manaus, AM, Brazil<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
14 de dezembro de 2021 14:14, "Douglas Yanega" <<a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com?to=%22Douglas%20Yanega%22%20%3cdyanega@gmail.com%3e" target="_blank">dyanega@gmail.com</a>>
escreveu:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On
12/14/21 7:58 AM, Ann Bogaerts wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hello
everybody,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">We
wish to renovate our herbarium with 4 milj.
specimens and we want to get some feedback
from other institutions who already
renovated or renewed their collection
buildings.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">One of
our main questions is the use of compactors
yes or no? So what is your opinion about
this? How much space do you save using a
compactor and how is it working with this
kind of system? For which collections do you
use it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">We are
really interested in the do's and don'ts and
it would also be nice if you could send us a
picture of the compactors you use.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Briefly:
our insect collection went from regular static
insect cabinets to a compactor system in 2002. It
almost doubled our storage capacity (instead of 7
aisles and 8 rows of cabinets, we now have 2
aisles and 13 rows of cabinets). That bought us a
few decades' worth of expansion.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Liquid
storage cabinets are in the static units to either
side, and and microscope slides are in a narrow
shelving unit in the middle; the 11 movable
compactor units are only for cabinets of pinned
specimens, and operated manually. In 18 years we
have not needed any repairs, which is a far better
track record than electric-powered compactor
systems. Insects on pins are fragile but not as
bad as people might think; we routinely ship
specimens using postal delivery and only rarely
experience significant damage.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
MAJOR caveat for compactors has to do with design
and execution: we had to literally breathe down
the necks of the people from the compactor company
because they kept screwing up the blueprints and
specs for the hardware dimensions in very minor
ways, and there were also issues with pouring a
layer of concrete on top of an existing floor. To
illustrate how subtle but devastating a mistake
can be, one of the things they didn't account for
was that both sides of each moving unit had a knob
that could be pulled out to engage the brake on
that side. Those knobs stuck out an inch when
fully retracted. We have two aisles, and each was
calculated on the blueprints to be about 36 inches
wide, and there are 6 moving compactor units on
one side and 5 on the other. They failed to
realize that their calculations had
<b>excluded the knobs</b>, which subtracted 2
inches of space per unit. Had they proceeded with
the installation as planned, the aisle on one side
would have been only 24 inches, and only 26 inches
on the other, which isn't even enough space to
open the cabinet doors. I caught this mistake and
had them machine the knobs an inch shorter so they
retract almost flush with the side, instead of
projecting; they are a little tricky to pull out,
but at least we can work in the aisles. They
similarly failed to account for the three inches
in height that were added by the wheels of the
undercarriage on the compactor units, but I didn't
catch that mistake, so the tops of some cabinets
would have run into some low-hanging ceiling
ductwork that we had expected to be clear. We had
to rebuild the ductwork before all the cabinets
could be installed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I
advise anyone planning compactors to stay very
actively engaged during the design process, and
don't trust the contractors to get every little
detail right. Be very wary in particular about the
precision of dimensions, and maybe plan a few
extra inches here and there if you can.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Peace,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<pre style="margin-left:0.5in">-- Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 skype: dyanega phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) <a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.ucr.edu%2F~heraty%2Fyanega.html&data=04%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C2a8e59a762f74a4df9dd08d9bfd6ba9f%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C1%7C637751751253293566%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kWzuCX1cPAKLadl6VT9V%2F4fL%2F774OhEq%2BYSFuDOaOC0%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html</a> "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>-- <br>
<p><img src="cid:17dbec891044e9c52901" alt="" width="152" height="59"></p>
<p><br>
Dirk Neumann<br>
<br>
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