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Dear all,</div>
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Thank you so much for your great and detailed advice on preserving frozen herp specimens, I really appreciate it. I think we will take it on a specimen by specimen basis as to how to preserve the specimen (in spirit or as a skeleton). Thank you especially John
for your very detailed and thoughtful explanations of what's going on with frozen specimens and what to look out for. It's an interesting point to note in the records that tissue is from a frozen specimen and so degraded. We tissue frozen specimen salvaged
specimens all the time of other taxa (birds and mammals). We don't note it specifically in the database, but how the specimen was collected (salvaged) is noted, so the user should suspect tissue degradation. In general I believe this hasn't been a big problem
for many uses requiring only short DNA fragments, although increasingly people are wanting higher quality (and greater quantity) of tissue. Anyway, thank you all so much (as usual) for your awesome feedback!</div>
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Cheers,</div>
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Tonya</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of J Tom Giermakowski <tomas@unm.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 28 April 2022 2:04 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] prepping frozen herps</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">All excellent advice, I�d only add that you should also pay close attention to the defrosting process. Much like with seafood and fresh fish, you want to
defrost in such a way that tissues are not frozen deep inside while the outside is already decaying by rotting or worse, drying. This can happen when defrosting in a hot water bath or leaving specimens in a fume hood overnight. We salvaged an old refrigerator
for our lab for the very purpose of defrosting specimens. </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">cheers, Tom</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Pauly<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 27, 2022 8:31<br>
<b>To:</b> Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff@csiro.au><br>
<b>Cc:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] prepping frozen herps</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">As others have mentioned, fixing and preserving frozen herps is common practice in herpetological collections. I concur with Andy that you want to be extra diligent with injecting formalin, and also making incisions to allow the formalin
adequate access to internal tissues (especially for larger snakes and lizards). As soon as the specimen has started to get a little bit rigid, move it to a formalin bath and keep it in the formalin bath longer than you would for fresh material. Obviously,
take tissue samples prior to formalin exposure. With a bit of extra attention during formalin exposure, the resulting specimen will be suitable for all standard research requests (including things like histological examination of gonads). The most challenging
thing is to get enough formalin exposure to fully preserve the inside of the GI tract so that dissection for GI parasites isn't complicated by a decomposing gut lining, but I've found this is doable even for larger turtles and snakes as long as you thoroughly
inject and move to the formalin bath quickly (I aim for starting at least a partial formalin bath within 8-12 hours).
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Greg</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 9:26 PM Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <<a href="mailto:Tonya.Haff@csiro.au">Tonya.Haff@csiro.au</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU">Hello all,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU">I have read (in John Simmon�s book on herpetological collecting, among other places) that frozen snake and lizard specimens do not make suitable formalin-preserved specimens, and should be instead skeletonised.
We have quite a few herp specimens in the freezer that we have been planning on prepping as �pickles� (fixed in formalin and then stored in ETOH), but I haven�t started yet because of the concern that it may not be worthwhile. I wonder if any of you could
weigh in on this and tell me what your experiences have been, and whether or not you would bother preserving these specimens in spirit, or if we should just prep them as skeletons?</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU">Thanks!</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU">Tonya</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU">-------------------------------------------------</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU">Dr. Tonya M. Haff</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU">Collection Manager</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU">Australian National Wildlife Collection</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU">CSIRO</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Gregory B. Pauly, Ph.D.</span></p>
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