<div dir="auto">Well, yes, that's where I have trouble: if the correct translation for Dorsim is raptors (as it indeed is, because like you said, the term refers to mode of hunting) then why confuse people by translating it into owls?<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If there is a correct term, shouldn't it be used? We should actively think why we use our terms because these terms educate the public. Possibly we also need to consider our terms for day hunters as well. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In any case, all opinions have been voiced and this has been a good discussion. I started it mainly for myself, to better understand the situation. Thank you all day and night owls who have sounded your voices!</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Gali</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">בתאריך שבת, 29 באוק׳ 2022, 8:10, מאת Amos Belmaker <<a href="mailto:belmakera@tauex.tau.ac.il">belmakera@tauex.tau.ac.il</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
Hi Gali,</div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
In Hebrew Dorsim (raptors) refers to the mode of hunting using the feet. The term Dorsei yom (day raptors) is a bit problematic, as it includes both Accipitriformes and Falconiformes but excludes Shrikes.</div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
Dorsei layla (night raptors) refers only to owls because Caprimulgiformes are aerial insectivores so are not raptors.</div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
I agree that common names are annoying.</div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
Hope this help,</div>
<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir="auto">
Amos</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-919627341355599095divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> on behalf of <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-request@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-request@mailman.yale.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-request@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-request@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
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1. Re: common English name (Frier, Danae PCS)<br>
2. Re: [External] Re: common English name (Opitz, Cindy E)<br>
3. Re: common English name (Erin Cashion)<br>
4. Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens (Andrews, Tom)<br>
5. Re: common English name (Callomon,Paul)<br>
6. Re: common English name (Elizabeth Wommack)<br>
7. Re: [External] Re: common English name (Dirk Neumann)<br>
8. Re: common English name (Gali Beiner)<br>
9. Common names (Callomon,Paul)<br>
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11. Re: Wanted: producer of square "museum" glas for exhibitions<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 15:54:07 +0000<br>
From: "Frier, Danae PCS" <<a href="mailto:danae.frier@gov.sk.ca" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">danae.frier@gov.sk.ca</a>><br>
To: Wendy Beins <<a href="mailto:wendybeins@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">wendybeins@gmail.com</a>>, Gali Beiner<br>
<<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:YT3PR01MB6273F4EB8A5F599BA95E0237B5339@YT3PR01MB6273.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">YT3PR01MB6273F4EB8A5F599BA95E0237B5339@YT3PR01MB6273.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM</a>><br>
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<br>
Hello all,<br>
<br>
I think the key here is the term "birds of prey", as it typically would refer exclusively to raptors (owls, hawks, falcons, etc). While nighthawks are nocturnal predators, since they are taxonomically different from raptors, they wouldn't be considered a bird
of prey. I believe owls are the only bird of prey that are nocturnal, so "owl" might be an appropriate English translation if the Hebrew term is also referring only to raptors and not all avian predators. However, it would also be important to know that not
all owls are nocturnal - many are active during the day or at dawn/dusk, i.e. all nocturnal birds of prey are owls, but not all owls are nocturnal birds of prey.<br>
<br>
Note that I wouldn't technically consider myself an ornithologist, and there may be exceptions to the above that I'm not aware of - but I think it applies generally.<br>
<br>
Regardless, I think Wendy's last sentence is the best advice - "Don't use the word owl on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls."<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Danae<br>
<br>
Danae Frier (she/her)<br>
Curatorial Assistant - Vertebrate Zoology<br>
<br>
Royal Saskatchewan Museum<br>
2340 Albert St., Regina, Saskatchewan S4P 2V7<br>
P: (306) 787-4852<br>
<br>
[cid:image001.png@01D8E9E2.3432BA10]<br>
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From: Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> On Behalf Of Wendy Beins<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 6:52 AM<br>
To: Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
<br>
WARNING: This message originated from a source that is not managed by SaskBuilds and Procurement, Information Technology Division. Do not visit links or open attachments unless you trust the sender's email ID and ensure it is not a spam/phishing email.<br>
<br>
Gali~<br>
Also not an ornithologist so I don't know the common English term for all nocturnal birds (if one exists), but I think lay people calling all nocturnal birds "owls" to be on par with lay people calling all fossils "dinosaurs". It is incredibly incorrect and
not something museums should be perpetuating. Although I now work in museum administration, my education background is vert paleo collections and research based and so when I'm working guest experience and someone refers to a non-dinosaur fossil as a dinosaur
I will correct them every time.<br>
I know this didn't really answer your question other than please don't use the word "owl" on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls.<br>
<br>
~~Wendy Beins<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 2:35 AM Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>>> wrote:<br>
Dear All,<br>
<br>
Just checking something that became a point of curiosity for me: I am not an ornithologist, I'm a conservator, so was quite surprised to learn recently something that sounded extremely strange to me. Maybe the bird specialists here can confirm it (or not):<br>
<br>
In a discussion on common-language English translation for a term in Hebrew covering all night-time birds of prey ("Dorsei laila", for those of you curious to know some Hebrew!), I was told that the commonly used English-language term to this end was "Owls".<br>
<br>
That surprised me very much, since I always thought that this word only referred to true owls (Strigiformes) and did not cover other nightly predators such as nighthawks. Does the term "owl" indeed refer to all nocturnal birds of prey? On a display label, which
term would correctly describe all nocturnal birds of prey (owls/nocturnal raptors/nocturnal birds of prey)? This sort of piques my mind and I would be glad to hear your thoughts!<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Gali<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
[<a href="https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download</a>]Gali Beiner (ACR)<br>
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab<br>
National Natural History Collections<br>
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem<br>
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram<br>
Jerusalem 91904, Israel<br>
Fax. 972-2-6585785<br>
<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 16:09:18 +0000<br>
From: "Opitz, Cindy E" <<a href="mailto:cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu</a>><br>
To: "Frier, Danae PCS" <<a href="mailto:danae.frier@gov.sk.ca" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">danae.frier@gov.sk.ca</a>>, Wendy Beins<br>
<<a href="mailto:wendybeins@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">wendybeins@gmail.com</a>>, Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] [External] Re: common English name<br>
Message-ID:<br>
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<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Could they be using a colloquial term, such as the English term "night owls" (or simply "owls") applied to folks who stay up late or are active at night? Not a bird term, but a pun of sorts? Sometimes exhibition language is playful like this.<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_owl" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_owl</a><br>
<br>
Cindy Opitz (she/her)<br>
Director of Research Collections<br>
Museum of Natural History and Old Capitol Museum<br>
Instructor, Museum Studies Certificate Program<br>
The University of Iowa<br>
11 Macbride Hall, Iowa City, Iowa 52242<br>
Office: 319.335.0481<br>
<a href="mailto:cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu</a>><br>
<a href="http://mnh.uiowa.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mnh.uiowa.edu</a>,<<a href="https://mnh.uiowa.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mnh.uiowa.edu/</a>> <a href="http://oldcap.uiowa.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">oldcap.uiowa.edu</a><<a href="https://oldcap.uiowa.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://oldcap.uiowa.edu/</a>><br>
[cid:image002.png@01D8E9F3.B529F460]<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> On Behalf Of Frier, Danae PCS<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 10:54 AM<br>
To: Wendy Beins <<a href="mailto:wendybeins@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">wendybeins@gmail.com</a>>; Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [External] Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
<br>
Hello all,<br>
<br>
I think the key here is the term "birds of prey", as it typically would refer exclusively to raptors (owls, hawks, falcons, etc). While nighthawks are nocturnal predators, since they are taxonomically different from raptors, they wouldn't be considered a bird
of prey. I believe owls are the only bird of prey that are nocturnal, so "owl" might be an appropriate English translation if the Hebrew term is also referring only to raptors and not all avian predators. However, it would also be important to know that not
all owls are nocturnal - many are active during the day or at dawn/dusk, i.e. all nocturnal birds of prey are owls, but not all owls are nocturnal birds of prey.<br>
<br>
Note that I wouldn't technically consider myself an ornithologist, and there may be exceptions to the above that I'm not aware of - but I think it applies generally.<br>
<br>
Regardless, I think Wendy's last sentence is the best advice - "Don't use the word owl on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls."<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Danae<br>
<br>
Danae Frier (she/her)<br>
Curatorial Assistant - Vertebrate Zoology<br>
<br>
Royal Saskatchewan Museum<br>
2340 Albert St., Regina, Saskatchewan S4P 2V7<br>
P: (306) 787-4852<br>
<br>
[cid:image003.png@01D8E9F3.B529F460]<br>
<br>
Confidentiality Notice:<br>
This e-mail (and any attachment) was intended for a specific recipient(s). It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure. Any privilege that exists is not waived. If you are not the intended recipient, do not copy or
distribute it to another person or use it for any other purpose. Please delete it and advise me by return e-mail or telephone. Thank you.<br>
<br>
From: Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Wendy Beins<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 6:52 AM<br>
To: Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
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Gali~<br>
Also not an ornithologist so I don't know the common English term for all nocturnal birds (if one exists), but I think lay people calling all nocturnal birds "owls" to be on par with lay people calling all fossils "dinosaurs". It is incredibly incorrect and
not something museums should be perpetuating. Although I now work in museum administration, my education background is vert paleo collections and research based and so when I'm working guest experience and someone refers to a non-dinosaur fossil as a dinosaur
I will correct them every time.<br>
I know this didn't really answer your question other than please don't use the word "owl" on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls.<br>
<br>
~~Wendy Beins<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 2:35 AM Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>>> wrote:<br>
Dear All,<br>
<br>
Just checking something that became a point of curiosity for me: I am not an ornithologist, I'm a conservator, so was quite surprised to learn recently something that sounded extremely strange to me. Maybe the bird specialists here can confirm it (or not):<br>
<br>
In a discussion on common-language English translation for a term in Hebrew covering all night-time birds of prey ("Dorsei laila", for those of you curious to know some Hebrew!), I was told that the commonly used English-language term to this end was "Owls".<br>
<br>
That surprised me very much, since I always thought that this word only referred to true owls (Strigiformes) and did not cover other nightly predators such as nighthawks. Does the term "owl" indeed refer to all nocturnal birds of prey? On a display label, which
term would correctly describe all nocturnal birds of prey (owls/nocturnal raptors/nocturnal birds of prey)? This sort of piques my mind and I would be glad to hear your thoughts!<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Gali<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
[<a href="https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download</a>]Gali Beiner (ACR)<br>
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab<br>
National Natural History Collections<br>
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem<br>
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram<br>
Jerusalem 91904, Israel<br>
Fax. 972-2-6585785<br>
<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 16:12:46 +0000<br>
From: Erin Cashion <<a href="mailto:ecashion@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ecashion@ohiohistory.org</a>><br>
To: Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:BL3PR19MB6540FBD74F31175774BAD885D9339@BL3PR19MB6540.namprd19.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">BL3PR19MB6540FBD74F31175774BAD885D9339@BL3PR19MB6540.namprd19.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hi Gali,<br>
<br>
I am an ornithologist (technically an avian ecologist) and nomenclature and taxonomy are my special interests! You have touched on the taxonomist's ultimate question, "What's in a name?" I can go on about this for some time, but I will try to keep my response
brief and not get into the weeds too much.<br>
<br>
You are correct - in English, the word "owl" only refers to birds in the order Strigiformes. If there is a word in English that includes all nocturnally hunting birds, I am not aware of it - but it does not surprise me that other languages do.<br>
<br>
A language is built and evolves according to the speakers' needs and their culture, environment, and interactions with other cultures - so common names for living things tend to be only as specific and useful as they need to be. In Hebrew speaking places, there
may not have been a need or reason to distinguish between owls and other nocturnally active birds like nightjars (Caprimulgiformes), so separate terms never made it into common use, and newer names from other languages were never adopted. Also, scientific
classification and Latin names themselves are only about three hundred years old, so if the common language that one is speaking has been in active use longer than that, it's not surprising that the Latin classification doesn't match up with it.<br>
<br>
I think most laypeople can easily recognize the difference between owls and other nocturnal birds of prey, but as Wendy said, this "lumping" of superficially similar species together does happen quite often. One English term that comes to mind is "buzzard".
To a layperson this means literally any hawk-like bird that soars, and includes New World vultures - which are not hawks at all. To an ornithologist however, buzzard only refers to species in the Buteo genus! So laypersons and biologists are using this term
differently.<br>
<br>
This is why common names are a notorious headache for taxonomists. They vary wildly even within a single language, and it's often geographically based. We have a snake here in the US that is variably called black snake, oak snake, chicken snake etc. depending
on where in the country you are. They all refer to Pantherophis alleghaniensis. However, "black snake" might also mean Lampropeltis getula or Coluber constrictor! These three species look enough alike that most laypeople won't be able to distinguish them.
However, to a layperson, having a more specific name for them doesn't ultimately matter, as they are all harmless and helpful predators that provide the same ecological service.<br>
<br>
To a taxonomist, distinguishing them down to species adds a layer of understanding about their ecology and natural history - details that laypeople don't really need to know in order to go about their day. The concept of a "species" is itself arbitrary and
made-up by humans to help us make sense of the natural world. Our method of classification has varied as our knowledge and technology has developed, and so the names have changed according to their usefulness.<br>
<br>
This is more succinctly captured in the book Alice in Wonderland, in which the titular character has a conversation with a gnat. The gnat asks "What's the use of their having names, if they don't answer to them?" to which Alice answers, "No use to them, but
it's useful to the people that name them, I suppose."<br>
<br>
What is the literal translation of Dorsei laila? I plugged this phonetic version into Google translate and it was smart enough to give me the words in Hebrew script, which it then translated as "Night raptors". Is this accurate? Is it perhaps "night hunters"?
I think a more general term like this would be more useful since it sounds like there is no concept for "owl" in Hebrew.<br>
<br>
Finally, to comment on your question about labeling - I would use whatever common term is correct in the language(s) being used, as this will be understood, but also use Latin names alongside them. As Danae recommended, if English is being used in addition
to Hebrew on the labels, I would not use the English word "owl" to refer to something that is not in Strigiformes.<br>
<br>
I hope this was helpful!<br>
<br>
Erin<br>
<br>
<br>
Erin B. Cashion | Curator of Natural History<br>
Ohio History Connection | 800 East 17th Ave. Columbus, Ohio 43211<br>
614.298.2054 | <a href="mailto:ecashion@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ecashion@ohiohistory.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ecashion@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ecashion@ohiohistory.org</a>><br>
She/Her/Hers<br>
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The Ohio History Connection's mission<<a href="https://www.ohiohistory.org/about-us" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.ohiohistory.org/about-us</a>> is to spark discovery of Ohio's stories. Embrace the present, share the past and transform the future. Support the Ohio History Connection:
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From: Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> On Behalf Of Frier, Danae PCS<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 11:54 AM<br>
To: Wendy Beins <<a href="mailto:wendybeins@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">wendybeins@gmail.com</a>>; Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
<br>
Hello all,<br>
<br>
I think the key here is the term "birds of prey", as it typically would refer exclusively to raptors (owls, hawks, falcons, etc). While nighthawks are nocturnal predators, since they are taxonomically different from raptors, they wouldn't be considered a bird
of prey. I believe owls are the only bird of prey that are nocturnal, so "owl" might be an appropriate English translation if the Hebrew term is also referring only to raptors and not all avian predators. However, it would also be important to know that not
all owls are nocturnal - many are active during the day or at dawn/dusk, i.e. all nocturnal birds of prey are owls, but not all owls are nocturnal birds of prey.<br>
<br>
Note that I wouldn't technically consider myself an ornithologist, and there may be exceptions to the above that I'm not aware of - but I think it applies generally.<br>
<br>
Regardless, I think Wendy's last sentence is the best advice - "Don't use the word owl on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls."<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Danae<br>
<br>
Danae Frier (she/her)<br>
Curatorial Assistant - Vertebrate Zoology<br>
<br>
Royal Saskatchewan Museum<br>
2340 Albert St., Regina, Saskatchewan S4P 2V7<br>
P: (306) 787-4852<br>
<br>
[cid:image001.png@01D8E9FB.2209A470]<br>
<br>
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From: Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Wendy Beins<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 6:52 AM<br>
To: Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
<br>
WARNING: This message originated from a source that is not managed by SaskBuilds and Procurement, Information Technology Division. Do not visit links or open attachments unless you trust the sender's email ID and ensure it is not a spam/phishing email.<br>
<br>
Gali~<br>
Also not an ornithologist so I don't know the common English term for all nocturnal birds (if one exists), but I think lay people calling all nocturnal birds "owls" to be on par with lay people calling all fossils "dinosaurs". It is incredibly incorrect and
not something museums should be perpetuating. Although I now work in museum administration, my education background is vert paleo collections and research based and so when I'm working guest experience and someone refers to a non-dinosaur fossil as a dinosaur
I will correct them every time.<br>
I know this didn't really answer your question other than please don't use the word "owl" on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls.<br>
<br>
~~Wendy Beins<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 2:35 AM Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>>> wrote:<br>
Dear All,<br>
<br>
Just checking something that became a point of curiosity for me: I am not an ornithologist, I'm a conservator, so was quite surprised to learn recently something that sounded extremely strange to me. Maybe the bird specialists here can confirm it (or not):<br>
<br>
In a discussion on common-language English translation for a term in Hebrew covering all night-time birds of prey ("Dorsei laila", for those of you curious to know some Hebrew!), I was told that the commonly used English-language term to this end was "Owls".<br>
<br>
That surprised me very much, since I always thought that this word only referred to true owls (Strigiformes) and did not cover other nightly predators such as nighthawks. Does the term "owl" indeed refer to all nocturnal birds of prey? On a display label, which
term would correctly describe all nocturnal birds of prey (owls/nocturnal raptors/nocturnal birds of prey)? This sort of piques my mind and I would be glad to hear your thoughts!<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Gali<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
[<a href="https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download</a>]Gali Beiner (ACR)<br>
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab<br>
National Natural History Collections<br>
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem<br>
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram<br>
Jerusalem 91904, Israel<br>
Fax. 972-2-6585785<br>
<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 16:26:38 +0000<br>
From: "Andrews, Tom" <<a href="mailto:Tom_Andrews1@baylor.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Tom_Andrews1@baylor.edu</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [Nhcoll-l] Labeling Systems for Fluid Preserved Specimens<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CO6PR06MB7635E7569D97DF4FFC80DDD7CB339@CO6PR06MB7635.namprd06.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CO6PR06MB7635E7569D97DF4FFC80DDD7CB339@CO6PR06MB7635.namprd06.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
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Hello Colleagues,<br>
<br>
We have a fairly sizable backlog of fluid preserved specimens that we need to make labels for. (Vast majority are in a 55% solution of IPA) In the past, we had used a typewriter that was proven to give good results even after decades in fluid (many labels made
on this machine dating back to the 1960's still look as good as when they were made) but at some point it was discovered that modern ribbons are of a different spec and no longer stand up well in fluid. As a result, we have handwritten our labels for several
years but now need to come up with something more manageable for labelling several hundred specimens.<br>
<br>
In reading through past messages here and other literature on the topic, it appears that Thermal Transfer printers are the way to go, but it seems that the Duramax which are usually recommended are no longer produced and the Honeywell printers appear to be
a not totally satisfactory replacement. A quick search shows that the Duramax printers are readily available second-hand. My idea was to try to acquire one of these since they are a known quantity and as an added bonus much less costly than the new printers.<br>
<br>
My question is, has anyone gone this route before and to those who have used the Duramax over the years, is it feasible to maintain them without outside assistance?<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Tom Andrews<br>
Collections Assistant<br>
<a href="mailto:Tom_Andrews1@baylor.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Tom_Andrews1@baylor.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Tom_Andrews1@baylor.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Tom_Andrews1@baylor.edu</a>><br>
254-710-1194<br>
Mayborn Museum Complex<br>
Baylor University<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 16:44:18 +0000<br>
From: "Callomon,Paul" <<a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">prc44@drexel.edu</a>><br>
To: Erin Cashion <<a href="mailto:ecashion@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ecashion@ohiohistory.org</a>>, Gali Beiner<br>
<<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:BYAPR01MB5224E2FCE69D0F0DBEED45ADC3339@BYAPR01MB5224.prod.exchangelabs.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">BYAPR01MB5224E2FCE69D0F0DBEED45ADC3339@BYAPR01MB5224.prod.exchangelabs.com</a>><br>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Big white jobs, little brown jobs and owls. Avian taxonomy made simple.<br>
<br>
PC<br>
<br>
Paul Callomon<br>
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates<br>
________________________________<br>
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University<br>
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA<br>
<a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">prc44@drexel.edu</a><<a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mailto:prc44@drexel.edu</a>> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 6<br>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 17:03:05 +0000<br>
From: Elizabeth Wommack <<a href="mailto:ewommack@uwyo.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ewommack@uwyo.edu</a>><br>
To: "Callomon,Paul" <<a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">prc44@drexel.edu</a>>, Erin Cashion<br>
<<a href="mailto:ecashion@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ecashion@ohiohistory.org</a>>, Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:SA1PR05MB8657CA04A1D6337B0C6A80ECA0339@SA1PR05MB8657.namprd05.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">SA1PR05MB8657CA04A1D6337B0C6A80ECA0339@SA1PR05MB8657.namprd05.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Hi Gali,<br>
<br>
I am an ornithologist like Erin, and work on birds of prey. I don't know of any common English term that refers to all nocturnal birds that may eat other organisms, but common names are a fun headache for taxonomists. There are agreed upon common names that
go through specific committees, and you may want to throw your question past the American Ornithologists Society's taxonomy committee, or the IOC.<br>
<br>
There are also cultural and regional common names that are used, and those are really interesting from a historical and cultural point of view. One of my favorite books I found in a used bookstore was North America Birds Folknames and Names by James Kedzie
Sayre. Here are a couple of the names that have been used for Caprimulgiformes in North America in the past that could confuse them with entire different groups of animals.<br>
Chordeiles minor: Pork'n'Beans, Long-winged Goatsucker, Bull-bat, Will-o'-the-Wisp, etc.<br>
Caprimulgus carolinensis: Mosquito Hawk, Chip-fell-out-of-a-oak, The Great Bat, etc.<br>
<br>
Good luck, and if you find a term please share it. It would be great to add more to how we understand the way we all experience and interact with birds.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Beth<br>
<br>
Elizabeth Wommack, PhD<br>
Curator and Collections Manager of Vertebrates<br>
University of Wyoming Museum of Vertebrates<br>
Berry Biodiversity Conservation Center<br>
University of Wyoming,<br>
Laramie, WY 82071<br>
ewommack@<<a href="mailto:ewommack@berkeley.edu%3Euwyo.edu%3Chttp://uwyo.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mailto:ewommack@berkeley.edu>uwyo.edu<http://uwyo.edu/</a>><br>
pronouns: she, her, herself<br>
<a href="http://www.uwymv.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.uwymv.org</a><<a href="http://www.uwymv.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.uwymv.org/</a>><br>
UWYMV Collection Use Policy<<a href="http://www.uwymv.org/index.php/download_file/view/43/143/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.uwymv.org/index.php/download_file/view/43/143/</a>><br>
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________________________________<br>
From: Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> on behalf of Callomon,Paul <<a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">prc44@drexel.edu</a>><br>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 10:44 AM<br>
To: Erin Cashion <<a href="mailto:ecashion@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ecashion@ohiohistory.org</a>>; Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
<br>
<br>
? This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.<br>
<br>
<br>
Big white jobs, little brown jobs and owls. Avian taxonomy made simple.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
PC<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Paul Callomon<br>
<br>
Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
<br>
Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University<br>
<br>
1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA<br>
<a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">prc44@drexel.edu</a><<a href="mailto:prc44@drexel.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mailto:prc44@drexel.edu</a>> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 7<br>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 19:12:38 +0200<br>
From: Dirk Neumann <<a href="mailto:d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] [External] Re: common English name<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:527eb5a5-1233-f842-059a-0e687f349b9c@leibniz-lib.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">527eb5a5-1233-f842-059a-0e687f349b9c@leibniz-lib.de</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
The same "Nachteule" Cindy mentions also exists in German; usually they don't fly. Well, some topple - and this may include a very tiny brief moment of free air suspension.<br>
<br>
These owls predominantly are male specimens, even tough female specimens can be spotted - e.g. in Bavaria usually in late September during the Oktoberfest.<br>
<br>
But this "Nachteule" (as a German common species name) can also be an Erebid or Noctuid butterfly, i.e. owlet moths; so if common names are to be used on labels (and the common name potentially applies / could apply t more than one species), it might be worth
putting it into context (e.g. Nachteulen- Schmetterling - which already is the case in the more descriptive English owlet moth).<br>
<br>
With best wishes<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 27.10.2022 um 18:09 schrieb Opitz, Cindy E:<br>
Could they be using a colloquial term, such as the English term ?night owls? (or simply ?owls?) applied to folks who stay up late or are active at night? Not a bird term, but a pun of sorts? Sometimes exhibition language is playful like this.<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_owl" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_owl</a><br>
<br>
Cindy Opitz (she/her)<br>
Director of Research Collections<br>
Museum of Natural History and Old Capitol Museum<br>
Instructor, Museum Studies Certificate Program<br>
The University of Iowa<br>
11 Macbride Hall, Iowa City, Iowa 52242<br>
Office: 319.335.0481<br>
<a href="mailto:cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cindy-opitz@uiowa.edu</a>><br>
<a href="http://mnh.uiowa.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">mnh.uiowa.edu</a>,<<a href="https://mnh.uiowa.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mnh.uiowa.edu/</a>> <a href="http://oldcap.uiowa.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">oldcap.uiowa.edu</a><<a href="https://oldcap.uiowa.edu/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://oldcap.uiowa.edu/</a>><br>
[<a href="mailto:cid%3Apart1.JLFWaQMz.E08I0U6S@leibniz-lib.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cid:part1.JLFWaQMz.E08I0U6S@leibniz-lib.de</a>]<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>><mailto:<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> On Behalf Of Frier, Danae PCS<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 10:54 AM<br>
To: Wendy Beins <<a href="mailto:wendybeins@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">wendybeins@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a href="mailto:wendybeins@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">wendybeins@gmail.com</a>>; Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><mailto:<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [External] Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
<br>
Hello all,<br>
<br>
I think the key here is the term ?birds of prey?, as it typically would refer exclusively to raptors (owls, hawks, falcons, etc). While nighthawks are nocturnal predators, since they are taxonomically different from raptors, they wouldn?t be considered a bird
of prey. I believe owls are the only bird of prey that are nocturnal, so ?owl? might be an appropriate English translation if the Hebrew term is also referring only to raptors and not all avian predators. However, it would also be important to know that not
all owls are nocturnal ? many are active during the day or at dawn/dusk, i.e. all nocturnal birds of prey are owls, but not all owls are nocturnal birds of prey.<br>
<br>
Note that I wouldn?t technically consider myself an ornithologist, and there may be exceptions to the above that I?m not aware of - but I think it applies generally.<br>
<br>
Regardless, I think Wendy?s last sentence is the best advice ? ?Don?t use the word owl on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls.?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Danae<br>
<br>
Danae Frier (she/her)<br>
Curatorial Assistant ? Vertebrate Zoology<br>
<br>
Royal Saskatchewan Museum<br>
2340 Albert St., Regina, Saskatchewan S4P 2V7<br>
P: (306) 787-4852<br>
<br>
[<a href="mailto:cid%3Apart2.OOv2EwiP.skPBRfFg@leibniz-lib.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cid:part2.OOv2EwiP.skPBRfFg@leibniz-lib.de</a>]<br>
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distribute it to another person or use it for any other purpose. Please delete it and advise me by return e-mail or telephone. Thank you.<br>
<br>
From: Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Wendy Beins<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 6:52 AM<br>
To: Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
<br>
WARNING: This message originated from a source that is not managed by SaskBuilds and Procurement, Information Technology Division. Do not visit links or open attachments unless you trust the sender's email ID and ensure it is not a spam/phishing email.<br>
<br>
<br>
Gali~<br>
Also not an ornithologist so I don't know the common English term for all nocturnal birds (if one exists), but I think lay people calling all nocturnal birds "owls" to be on par with lay people calling all fossils "dinosaurs". It is incredibly incorrect and
not something museums should be perpetuating. Although I now work in museum administration, my education background is vert paleo collections and research based and so when I'm working guest experience and someone refers to a non-dinosaur fossil as a dinosaur
I will correct them every time.<br>
I know this didn't really answer your question other than please don't use the word "owl" on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls.<br>
<br>
~~Wendy Beins<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 2:35 AM Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>>> wrote:<br>
Dear All,<br>
<br>
Just checking something that became a point of curiosity for me: I am not an ornithologist, I'm a conservator, so was quite surprised to learn recently something that sounded extremely strange to me. Maybe the bird specialists here can confirm it (or not):<br>
<br>
In a discussion on common-language English translation for a term in Hebrew covering all night-time birds of prey ("Dorsei laila", for those of you curious to know some Hebrew!), I was told that the commonly used English-language term to this end was "Owls".<br>
<br>
That surprised me very much, since I always thought that this word only referred to true owls (Strigiformes) and did not cover other nightly predators such as nighthawks. Does the term "owl" indeed refer to all nocturnal birds of prey? On a display label, which
term would correctly describe all nocturnal birds of prey (owls/nocturnal raptors/nocturnal birds of prey)? This sort of piques my mind and I would be glad to hear your thoughts!<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Gali<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
[<a href="https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download</a>]Gali Beiner (ACR)<br>
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab<br>
National Natural History Collections<br>
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem<br>
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram<br>
Jerusalem 91904, Israel<br>
Fax. 972-2-6585785<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 14:56:50 +0300<br>
From: Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
To: Erin Cashion <<a href="mailto:ecashion@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ecashion@ohiohistory.org</a>><br>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAF3y2whr33xGpDFzLTE57%2B-9sJO28qD3hxwuB8ygD9xPL_X-1g@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CAF3y2whr33xGpDFzLTE57+-9sJO28qD3hxwuB8ygD9xPL_X-1g@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi Erin, and thaks all,<br>
<br>
Googlr translate actually gave you the correct translation of "dorsei<br>
laila" - it is indeed "nocturnal raptors". Hebrew also has a term for owls<br>
- "yanshuf" (singular) or "yanshufim" (plural) as well as "yanshufiyim"<br>
(plural, "belonging to the owl group/family).<br>
<br>
The situation here arose because as a non-English speaking country, our<br>
displays often provide English translations for tourists. So... If your<br>
display features a group of....er...avian night hunters as opposed to a<br>
group of avian day hunters, what should the English terms be?<br>
<br>
By the way, the development of common names in Hebrew is rather unique in<br>
some ways. Hebrew used to be a nearly-dead language for close on two<br>
thousand years, used mainly in prayer (much like Latin) and in<br>
international communication, but there were periods of revival (eg in<br>
Islamic Spain) which yielded great bodies of poetry, plus different Jewish<br>
communities developed local fusions of Hebrew with other languages - such<br>
as Yiddish (Hebrew-German), Ladino (Hebrew-Spanish), Morrocan Hebrew and<br>
many others. Hebrew common names today are sometimes remenants of biblical<br>
times (eg lion, deer, dog, bear etc) and often newer creations offered by<br>
researchers (natural history or linguistics) at the beginning of the 20th<br>
century in a process still continuing to this day, eg nocturnal raptors (a<br>
relatively old "renewal" based on a much older Hebrew term from the period<br>
of the Second Temple, Roman times).<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Gali<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
?????? ??? ??, 27 ????? 2022, 19:12, ??? Erin Cashion ?<<br>
<a href="mailto:ecashion@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ecashion@ohiohistory.org</a>>:<br>
<br>
> Hi Gali,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I am an ornithologist (technically an avian ecologist) and nomenclature<br>
> and taxonomy are my special interests! You have touched on the taxonomist?s<br>
> ultimate question, ?What?s in a name?? I can go on about this for some<br>
> time, but I will try to keep my response brief and not get into the weeds<br>
> too much.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> You are correct - in English, the word ?owl? only refers to birds in the<br>
> order Strigiformes. If there is a word in English that includes all<br>
> nocturnally hunting birds, I am not aware of it ? but it does not surprise<br>
> me that other languages do.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> A language is built and evolves according to the speakers? needs and their<br>
> culture, environment, and interactions with other cultures ? so common<br>
> names for living things tend to be only as specific and useful as they need<br>
> to be. In Hebrew speaking places, there may not have been a need or reason<br>
> to distinguish between owls and other nocturnally active birds like<br>
> nightjars (Caprimulgiformes), so separate terms never made it into common<br>
> use, and newer names from other languages were never adopted. Also,<br>
> scientific classification and Latin names themselves are only about three<br>
> hundred years old, so if the common language that one is speaking has been<br>
> in active use longer than that, it?s not surprising that the Latin<br>
> classification doesn?t match up with it.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I think most laypeople can easily recognize the difference between owls<br>
> and other nocturnal birds of prey, but as Wendy said, this ?lumping? of<br>
> superficially similar species together does happen quite often. One English<br>
> term that comes to mind is ?buzzard?. To a layperson this means literally<br>
> any hawk-like bird that soars, and includes New World vultures ? which are<br>
> not hawks at all. To an ornithologist however, buzzard only refers to<br>
> species in the *Buteo* genus! So laypersons and biologists are using this<br>
> term differently.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This is why common names are a notorious headache for taxonomists. They<br>
> vary wildly even within a single language, and it?s often geographically<br>
> based. We have a snake here in the US that is variably called black snake,<br>
> oak snake, chicken snake etc. depending on where in the country you are.<br>
> They all refer to *Pantherophis alleghaniensis*. However, ?black snake?<br>
> might also mean *Lampropeltis getula* or *Coluber constrictor*! These<br>
> three species look enough alike that most laypeople won?t be able to<br>
> distinguish them. However, to a layperson, having a more specific name for<br>
> them doesn?t ultimately matter, as they are all harmless and helpful<br>
> predators that provide the same ecological service.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> To a taxonomist, distinguishing them down to species adds a layer of<br>
> understanding about their ecology and natural history ? details that<br>
> laypeople don?t really need to know in order to go about their day. The<br>
> concept of a ?species? is itself arbitrary and made-up by humans to help us<br>
> make sense of the natural world. Our method of classification has varied as<br>
> our knowledge and technology has developed, and so the names have changed<br>
> according to their usefulness.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This is more succinctly captured in the book Alice in Wonderland, in which<br>
> the titular character has a conversation with a gnat. The gnat asks ?What?s<br>
> the use of their having names, if they don?t answer to them?? to which<br>
> Alice answers, ?No use to them, but it?s useful to the people that name<br>
> them, I suppose.?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> What is the literal translation of Dorsei laila? I plugged this phonetic<br>
> version into Google translate and it was smart enough to give me the words<br>
> in Hebrew script, which it then translated as ?Night raptors?. Is this<br>
> accurate? Is it perhaps ?night hunters?? I think a more general term like<br>
> this would be more useful since it sounds like there is no concept for<br>
> ?owl? in Hebrew.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Finally, to comment on your question about labeling ? I would use whatever<br>
> common term is correct in the language(s) being used, as this will be<br>
> understood, but also use Latin names alongside them. As Danae recommended,<br>
> if English is being used in addition to Hebrew on the labels, I would not<br>
> use the English word ?owl? to refer to something that is not in<br>
> Strigiformes.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I hope this was helpful!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Erin<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Erin B. Cashion | Curator of Natural History*<br>
> Ohio History Connection | 800 East 17th Ave. Columbus, Ohio 43211<br>
><br>
><br>
> 614.298.2054 | <a href="mailto:ecashion@ohiohistory.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">ecashion@ohiohistory.org</a><br>
><br>
> She/Her/Hers<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *The Ohio History Connection?s* *mission*<br>
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> *From:* Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> * On Behalf Of *Frier,<br>
> Danae PCS<br>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2022 11:54 AM<br>
> *To:* Wendy Beins <<a href="mailto:wendybeins@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">wendybeins@gmail.com</a>>; Gali Beiner <<br>
> <a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello all,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I think the key here is the term ?birds of prey?, as it typically would<br>
> refer exclusively to raptors (owls, hawks, falcons, etc). While nighthawks<br>
> are nocturnal predators, since they are taxonomically different from<br>
> raptors, they wouldn?t be considered a bird of prey. I believe owls are the<br>
> only bird of prey that are nocturnal, so ?owl? might be an appropriate<br>
> English translation if the Hebrew term is also referring only to raptors<br>
> and not all avian predators. However, it would also be important to know<br>
> that not all owls are nocturnal ? many are active during the day or at<br>
> dawn/dusk, i.e. all nocturnal birds of prey are owls, but not all owls are<br>
> nocturnal birds of prey.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Note that I wouldn?t technically consider myself an ornithologist, and<br>
> there may be exceptions to the above that I?m not aware of - but I think it<br>
> applies generally.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Regardless, I think Wendy?s last sentence is the best advice ? ?Don?t use<br>
> the word owl on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls.?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
><br>
> Danae<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Danae Frier *(she/her)<br>
><br>
> Curatorial Assistant ? Vertebrate Zoology<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Royal Saskatchewan Museum<br>
><br>
> 2340 Albert St., Regina, Saskatchewan S4P 2V7<br>
><br>
> P: (306) 787-4852<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *Confidentiality Notice:*<br>
><br>
> *This e-mail (and any attachment) was intended for a specific<br>
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><br>
><br>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> *On Behalf Of *Wendy<br>
> Beins<br>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2022 6:52 AM<br>
> *To:* Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] common English name<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> WARNING: This message originated from a source that is not managed by *SaskBuilds<br>
> and Procurement, Information Technology Division*. Do not visit links or<br>
> open attachments unless you trust the sender's email ID and ensure it is<br>
> not a spam/phishing email.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Gali~<br>
><br>
> Also not an ornithologist so I don't know the common English term for all<br>
> nocturnal birds (if one exists), but I think lay people calling all<br>
> nocturnal birds "owls" to be on par with lay people calling all fossils<br>
> "dinosaurs". It is incredibly incorrect and not something museums should<br>
> be perpetuating. Although I now work in museum administration, my<br>
> education background is vert paleo collections and research based and so<br>
> when I'm working guest experience and someone refers to a non-dinosaur<br>
> fossil as a dinosaur I will correct them *every* time.<br>
> I know this didn't really answer your question other than please don't use<br>
> the word "owl" on a display label to refer to animals that are not owls.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ~~Wendy Beins<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 2:35 AM Gali Beiner <<a href="mailto:gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gali.beiner@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear All,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Just checking something that became a point of curiosity for me: I am not<br>
> an ornithologist, I'm a conservator, so was quite surprised to learn<br>
> recently something that sounded extremely strange to me. Maybe the bird<br>
> specialists here can confirm it (or not):<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> In a discussion on common-language English translation for a term in<br>
> Hebrew covering all night-time birds of prey ("Dorsei laila", for those of<br>
> you curious to know some Hebrew!), I was told that the commonly used<br>
> English-language term to this end was "Owls".<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> That surprised me very much, since I always thought that this word only<br>
> referred to true owls (Strigiformes) and did not cover other nightly<br>
> predators such as nighthawks. Does the term "owl" indeed refer to all<br>
> nocturnal birds of prey? On a display label, which term would correctly<br>
> describe all nocturnal birds of prey (owls/nocturnal raptors/nocturnal<br>
> birds of prey)? This sort of piques my mind and I would be glad to hear<br>
> your thoughts!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Gali<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Gali Beiner (AC</div></span></font></div></div></blockquote></div>