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<p class="MsoNormal">I support Rob’s approach. Organizing wet collections systematically has serious disadvantages in terms of fragmented expansion space that only get worse as the collection grows. Some points:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Under most US fire codes, you are not allowed to open containers or work on their contents in the same space as that within which the collection is stored (you need a separate “wet
lab”). As the specimens must be removed for inspection anyway there is thus little advantage in organizing your storage facility by taxonomy. Arrangements by catalog number and/or container size make far more sense, and even a spreadsheet will do as a retrieval
guide. It also means that retrieval and return of lots does not require taxonomic knowledge or guide books (physical or digital) that have to be constantly updated.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">A further disadvantage of taxonomic arrangements in wet collections is that is hard to tell when something is missing, or when someone has added an uncataloged container to a genus
or family. We discovered hundreds of such instances when we recently converted our wet general invertebrates from a systematic to a catalog-number arrangement. Roughly ten percent of the bottles had been placed there over the decades by curators without entering
them in the catalog. We had no way of knowing they were there. Some were type specimens…<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Systematics change, and if that matters to you then you’ll have to take the time and risk of physically reorganizing things periodically (risk, because whenever you move jars they
can get dropped). If it doesn’t, then why have that arrangement in the first place?<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now, with our trayed catalog-number arrangement, we can tell if something has been removed and not returned, and it is impossible to put uncataloged material into the sequence. We also know exactly how much remaining free shelf space we
have at any given time, as it’s all at one end and not dispersed in pockets at the ends of thousands of genera.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Incidentally, we’ve had a catalog-number arrangement in our wet mollusks since 1976. Databases are not new.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Paul Callomon</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<i>Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates</i><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University, Philadelphia</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<i>callomon@ansp.org Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170</i></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rob Robins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 15, 2023 8:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tom Schiøtte <tschioette@snm.ku.dk>; Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <Tonya.Haff@csiro.au>; nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Shelf depth for EtOH jar collections<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-variant:small-caps;color:black">External.</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-variant:small-caps"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi Tonya et al.,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Related to shelf depth is of course the height at which you space the shelves in your new facility.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Many collections “start” with all shelves spaced at a minimum meant to accommodate the largest jar in common use.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">For many in the U.S. that is 1 gallon jar (~4 liters) of approximately 300mm height.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">The trouble with this approach of course is that as the collection grows, shelf spacing “devolves” to lower heights as managers take pains to accommodate growth (and they are pains).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">This is an easy trap to fall into, as at least in fishes, most fish and fish lots are small, and collections grow and space must be “made.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">(E.g., a recent randomized survey of 65 of our 5,286 shelves projects that of the UF Fish Collection’s 178,000 containers, 67,032 are 4oz jars (118 ml)).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Inevitably, this course of action leads to conflicts whereby still more new materials in large jars need to be placed on shelves that can no longer accommodate them. At least if one is to try and maintain a semblance
of current phylogenetic order (something few, if any large collections accomplish – on those that do inevitably, only for a short moment in time).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">( The cost to specimens is real – when staff can’t “fit” a jar on a shelf – I have seen specimens crammed into containers too small for their proper keeping, sometimes with disastrous results – all in an effort
to keep one “group” of fishes together on the same shelf space). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">At UF we are implementing a barcode driven, container size arrangement of the UF Fish Collection. Just a handful of the benefits include: a true inventory of the collection as it moves, updated in real time; an
enormous space savings that extends the life of the facility by decades, no more large scale collection shifts, and an always current phylogeny of fishes exported to data aggregators from our Specify database.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">If you’d like more details about our plans and the challenges and results to date, please don’t hesitate to contact me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
Rob Robins<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Robert H. Robins<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Collection Manager<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Division of Ichthyology<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><img width="155" height="56" style="width:1.6145in;height:.5833in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D9411C.70089280" alt="FLMNH Fishes logo email small"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Florida Museum<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">1659 Museum Rd.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Gainesville, FL 32611-7800<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Office: (352) 273-1957<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="mailto:rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu">rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">The UF Fish Collection is moving:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Ffish%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C339f53f60d3c405994db08db0f5a3e64%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C1%7C638120652502971274%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wZ8hDTNXIpddZ95HiUJvX5RMXptWQBNjnMA8h8w%2BE6w%3D&reserved=0">https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Search the Collection:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspecifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu%2Ffishes%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C339f53f60d3c405994db08db0f5a3e64%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C1%7C638120652502971274%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ILmqjwYVIqGoeWcdkdmioi5sULA2abikZZ0%2BqxIUmrg%3D&reserved=0">http://specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Search samples suitable for dna analysis:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fgrr%2Fholdings%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C339f53f60d3c405994db08db0f5a3e64%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C1%7C638120652502971274%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3Q2EbX9EYp5Ysx1Jkp71vuDCAAaCy60bKjhFHgtOBNs%3D&reserved=0">https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Schiøtte<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 15, 2023 4:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace) <<a href="mailto:Tonya.Haff@csiro.au">Tonya.Haff@csiro.au</a>>;
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Shelf depth for EtOH jar collections<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#FA4616">[External Email]</span></b>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Tonya,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">In Copenhagen we (generally) use shelves that are 500 mm deep. The problems that Dirk outlined with deep shelves is solved by having jars placed in wooden trays that are 500 x 235 mm
(and 70 mm tall). The whole tray can be taken out for topping up, and we don’t risk toppling other jars if we reach for one at the inner part of the shelf. Moreover we have the benefit that we can put labels about contents on the outer end of the tray.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">Larger jars that don’t fit in the trays or on the shelves are put on bottom shelves with double or triple height.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">For some historical reason one of our collections uses the system in a slightly downscaled version with smaller shelf depth and therefore shorter trays. The principle remains the same,
though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">Tom Schiøtte</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"> </span></b><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">Collection manager, Echinodermata & Mollusca</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">Natural History Museum of Denmark (Zoology)</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">Universitetsparken 15</span></b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">DK 2100 Copenhagen OE</span></b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"> </span></b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">+45 35 32 10 48</span></b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><a href="mailto:TSchioette@snm.ku.dk"><span style="color:blue">TSchioette@snm.ku.dk</span></a></span></b><span lang="DA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 15. februar 2023 04:26<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Nhcoll-l] Shelf depth for EtOH jar collections<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU">Hi again everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU">We are getting down to the pointy bit of having to confirm the desired depth of shelving for our new ethanol vault storage. Right now our shelves are only about 300mm deep, which is really not
deep enough for some larger containers. We have specified 440mm deep shelving for the new space, but before pushing ‘go’ I thought I would ask if any of you have thoughts or very strong opinions about optimal shelf depth for storing jars of various sizes and
smaller drums.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU">Thanks in advance for your input!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU">Tonya<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">-------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">Dr. Tonya M. Haff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">Collection Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">Australian National Wildlife Collection<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">CSIRO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU">+61(0)419569109<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-AU"><a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.csiro.au%2Fen%2Fabout%2Ffacilities-collections%2Fcollections%2Fanwc&data=05%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C339f53f60d3c405994db08db0f5a3e64%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C1%7C638120652502971274%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=idWiUF%2F%2F48gfu0ix05khxxYc78EYmDt%2Bb5veYkkpxVU%3D&reserved=0">https://www.csiro.au/en/about/facilities-collections/collections/anwc</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span lang="EN-AU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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