<div dir="ltr"><div>We have a broad variety of marine invertebrate specimens that arrive as anything ranging from individually identified specimens, to "lots" (as Andy Bently described) that are allegedly all one species and collected in the same collecting event, to unsorted or partially sorted lots of multiple taxa from a collecting event. These lots commonly undergo subsorting or have individual specimens removed for further study. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Our practice has been to consider whatever comes to us as "a specimen", which gets a specimenID (linked to the collecting information). At any time that an individual (or sub-lot) is identified or removed, it gets housed in either a separate container or a vial/jar inside the original container, and is issued a "child specimenID". The new specimenID points to the parent specimenID in our database, and hence refers to its collection information, and records the fact that the "child" specimen or lot is derived from the parent lot. A child can be subdivided into more child specimens, ad infinitum (though we hope not to go that far). <br></div><div><br></div><div>This gives us the flexibility of "spawning" sub-lots or individuals from lots at any time, while keeping a clear trail of historical derivation. <br></div><div><br></div><div>However, few specimen collection database systems are built with this schema in mind, so it may be challenging to implement in an off-the-shelf specimen management system. <br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">-Dean<br>-- <br>Dean Pentcheff<br><a href="mailto:pentcheff@gmail.com" target="_blank">pentcheff@gmail.com</a></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:dpentche@nhm.org" target="_blank">pentcheff@nhm.org</a><br><a href="https://research.nhm.org/disco" target="_blank">https://research.nhm.org/disco</a></div><div dir="ltr"><img src="http://research.nhm.org/images/DISCO_lockup_4color-300.png"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 6:41 AM Bentley, Andrew Charles <<a href="mailto:abentley@ku.edu">abentley@ku.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-3301946198403914703">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Lennart<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is a common issue in ichthyology collections that, unlike most other collections that work on a specimen basis, work on a lot basis where all specimens of the same species, collected at the same time and place by the same person are
cataloged as a single unit in the database and a count is associated with the type of unit (ethanol specimens, skeletons, tissues, etc.) usually known as preparations. So, we have a single catalog number in our database for a lot that may have anywhere from
1 to hundreds of specimens. You can see an example of this here for one of the specimens in my collection:
<a href="https://ichthyology.specify.ku.edu/specify/bycatalog/KUI/22858/" target="_blank">https://ichthyology.specify.ku.edu/specify/bycatalog/KUI/22858/</a>. In this example you will see that I have 80 ethanol specimens and 6 cleared and stained specimens all cataloged under
the same catalog number – 22858. If a specimens is reidentified from that lot I can re-catalog it as a separate number and change the counts accordingly. This also allows me to loan individual specimen(s) from a lot. What this does not allow me to do however,
is store unique information about each individual specimen in a lot which is sometimes useful – e.g. where a tissue has been taken from an individual or it has been imaged or CT scanned. In those cases we use individual tags (with a tissue number) for specimens
to indicate this.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hope that helps<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V<br>
Andy Bentley<br>
Ichthyology Collection Manager<br>
University of Kansas<br>
Biodiversity Institute<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Dyche Hall<br>
<a>1345 Jayhawk Boulevard</a><br>
<a>Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561</a><br>
<a>USA</a><br>
<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-3863" target="_blank">(785) 864-3863</a><br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-5335" target="_blank">(785) 864-5335</a> <br>
Email: <a href="mailto:abentley@ku.edu" target="_blank">abentley@ku.edu</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">ORCID: <span style="color:rgb(73,74,76);background:white"><a href="https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258" target="_blank">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><a href="http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/" target="_blank">http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Lennart Lennuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 7, 2022 1:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Nhcoll-l] many specimens in one jar<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET">Hi!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET">What is your practices preserving many specimens in one jar. It is quite impossible to mark them all with ID ohter than butting every specimen separately into glasstube. What might be the problems if
there are for example 10 individuals of Palaemon in one jar and the ID-s are only on the main label?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET"><br>
Should we count each individual as specimen or should we take them as unit and describe in database how many individuals one unit holds?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET">Best regards!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET">Lennart Lennuk<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET">Head of collections<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET">Estonian Museum of Natural History<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="ET">+372 6603404, 56569916<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ET"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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