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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Agreed with the points from Rob and Andy. Just a few months ago I had a paratype cited using the wrong number and collection code. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">It’s also true that editors need to do a better job of proofing these things. That this slipped by the authors, peer reviewers, and editors, ought to be considered. I should add that this was not in a megajournal
with a broader scope, but rather a well-regarded smaller journal that publishes mainly taxonomic papers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">-Nate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:13.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"><img width="224" height="45" style="width:2.3333in;height:.4687in" id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image003.png@01D9C53F.66D92A60" alt="The Ohio State University"><br></span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BB0000;background:white">Nathaniel F. Shoobs</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"><br>Curator of Mollusks<br></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BB0000;background:white">College of Arts & Sciences</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"> Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology<br>Museum of Biological Diversity, 1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212<br>614-688-1342 (Office)<br><a href="http://mbd.osu.edu"><span style="color:#0563C1;background:white">mbd.osu.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley@ku.edu><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 12:39 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Rob Robins <rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu>, Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1@osu.edu>, Douglas Yanega <dyanega@gmail.com>, nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Nhcoll-l] Curating specimens with uncertain type status?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-ligatures:none"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">And to proof that section in collaboration with the collection managers of the various collections you are citing. I agree that I have found untold errors in proofing
material examined sections but only when it is too late because researchers <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And to proof that section in collaboration with the collection managers of the various collections you are citing. I agree that I have found untold errors in proofing material examined sections but only when it is too late because researchers
did not contact me to look it over.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-ligatures:none"> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V<br>
Andy Bentley<br>
Ichthyology Collection Manager<br>
University of Kansas<br>
Biodiversity Institute</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-ligatures:none">Dyche Hall<br>
<a href="x-apple-data-detectors://9/"><span style="color:#0563C1">1345 Jayhawk Boulevard</span></a><br>
<a href="x-apple-data-detectors://9/"><span style="color:#0563C1">Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561</span></a><br>
<a href="x-apple-data-detectors://9/"><span style="color:#0563C1">USA</span></a><br>
<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-3863" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">(785) 864-3863</span></a><br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-5335" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">(785) 864-5335</span></a> <br>
Email: <a href="mailto:abentley@ku.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">abentley@ku.edu</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">ORCID: <span style="color:#494A4C;background:white">
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5MkK_WMQQ$"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258</span></a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-AU" style="mso-ligatures:none"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5N5t8iuRQ$" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none"> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rob Robins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 2, 2023 11:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1@osu.edu>; Douglas Yanega <dyanega@gmail.com>; nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Curating specimens with uncertain type status?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Whatever the outcome of this case, it serves to underscore the need for authors to proof the materials examined section of their papers with the same care they do the rest of the work.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m sure nhcoll list members can attest to the many transcription errors encountered in the reporting of catalog numbers in published works…the rate seems quite high compared to other typographical errors.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Rob<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Robert H. Robins</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Collection Manager</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Division of Ichthyology</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"><img border="0" width="155" height="56" style="width:1.6145in;height:.5833in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D9C536.023BF550" alt="FLMNH Fishes logo email small"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Florida Museum</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">1659 Museum Rd.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Gainesville, FL 32611-7800</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Office: (352) 273-1957</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"><a href="mailto:rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu"><span style="color:#0563C1">rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">The UF Fish Collection is moving:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5Nq7jnsCQ$"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Search the Collection:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5MkCpBnqQ$"><span style="color:#0563C1">http://specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Search samples suitable for dna analysis:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5O9jKZbow$"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none"> Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shoobs, Nate<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 2, 2023 12:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Douglas Yanega <<a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com">dyanega@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Curating specimens with uncertain type status?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#FA4616;mso-ligatures:none">[External Email]</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Doug,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your prompt reply. This is one of the conclusions I reached, that the name is not available because a single type was not fixed at the time of publication. But others that I’ve spoken to are of the opinion that: 1. the type
<i>was</i> designated and is simply lost in the type series, warranting a neotype designation. Or 2. that the designation of the lot constituted a syntype designation.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think the former is plausible, but the latter cannot be because post-1999, syntypes must be fixed “explicitly” (meaning if the word syntypes wasn’t used, they ain’t syntypes.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Nate<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:none">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333;mso-ligatures:none"><img border="0" width="224" height="45" style="width:2.3333in;height:.4687in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.png@01D9C536.023BF550" alt="The Ohio State University"><br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BB0000;background:white;mso-ligatures:none">Nathaniel F. Shoobs</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333;mso-ligatures:none"><br>
Curator of Mollusks<br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BB0000;background:white;mso-ligatures:none">College of Arts & Sciences</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333;mso-ligatures:none"> Dept. of Evolution,
Ecology, and Organismal Biology<br>
Museum of Biological Diversity, 1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212<br>
614-688-1342 (Office)<br>
<a href="http://mbd.osu.edu/"><span style="color:#0563C1;background:white">mbd.osu.edu</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> on behalf of Douglas Yanega <<a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com">dyanega@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:55 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Nhcoll-l] Curating specimens with uncertain type status?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">On 8/2/23 8: 39 AM, Shoobs, Nate wrote: The author, in the description, says something like this: “Holotype: OSUM 1234, 10 specimens. Paratype: OSUM 4567, 1 specimen. ”.
Speaking as an ICZN Commissioner, this right here is the core issue. After </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 8/2/23 8:39 AM, Shoobs, Nate wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">The author, in the description, says something like this: “Holotype: OSUM 1234, 10 specimens. Paratype: OSUM 4567, 1 specimen.”.
</span><o:p></o:p></li></ol>
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<p>Speaking as an ICZN Commissioner, this right here is the core issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>After 1999, a holotype designation must be of an individual specimen. The statement above does not designate a single specimen, it designates a "lot" containing multiple specimens. Prior to 2000, this would have devolved to a "by default" situation and the
specimens in that lot would have been considered syntypes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I personally don't think the name of this new taxon is available at all, as it has no validly-designated type specimen, because your ample evidence (that what happened here is the accidental switching of the words "holotype" and "paratypes" in the final
published version) is not allowable for names after 1999. The problem is unusual enough that I will pass it by the other Commissioners to see what they think, but I doubt it is salvageable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Peace,<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 skype: dyanega<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/faculty.ucr.edu/*heraty/yanega.html__;fg!!KGKeukY!24OS2KKItAL8-D4G5G4OkM1nb8H3nt1Z_j2_h-FpF32QKnXx0myduxT_IV-ATq97C60VToF0GnyGMr0$">https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82<o:p></o:p></pre>
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