<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body>
<div dir="ltr" style="">
<div></div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">Hi Bill,</span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">This is an interesting argument. Some others have made a similar one to me in private.</span></p>
<p class="p2" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;min-height:22px;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal"></span><br>
</p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">Some notes:</span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">A lot of people are interpreting my simplified type disposition statement 'Holotype: OSUM 1234, 10 specimens, Paratype: OSUM 4567, 1 specimen' to mean that there was a simple switch
of paratype and holotype by mistake. But it’s not so simple.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">The real situation I'm trying to figure out is more accurately represented by something like:</span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s2" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleEmphasizedItalicBody;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">'Holotype: OSUM 1234, 10 specimens. Paratypes:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>OSUM 1235. 10
specimens; OSUM 4567; CAS 1234'</span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">The statement in question is one that makes it difficult to know what material / how many specimens the type series consisted of, because there are a number of lots which cannot be
traced, do not appear in materials examined, are unfigured, and may not even exist / may have been included by mistake.</span></p>
<p class="p2" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;min-height:22px;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal"></span><br>
</p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family: UICTFontTextStyleBody;"><i>Were all of the specimens part of a single collection with the same locality and date?</i></span></p>
<p class="p2" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;min-height:22px;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal"></span><br>
</p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">Some of the paratypes, including the one figured as 'holotype' were split from the multi-specimen lot that is listed as the holotype lot. However, we only know this because of information
outside of the publication, which cannot be considered to identify the identity of the type per ICZN 72.4.1.1.</span></p>
<p class="p2" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;min-height:22px;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal"></span><br>
</p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">The invocation of Article 73.1.4 could solve this problem, but I personally don't know if I think that the language in the code really means that any illustration / figure caption
mentioning a holotype should always be considered a fixation/designation of a type, even when information within the publication explicitly and literally contradicts it. I agree that for figures which are unambiguous (like a photograph of a specimen with identifiable
unique features, like scratches, stains, a unique crack, etc) this should probably settle things, but in the case I am working with, the illustration is not unambiguous (it is a vague illustration that could be any specimen in the type series), and the publication
itself is so inconsistent and untrustworthy that a single specimen cannot be logically identified as the type with certainty. </span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">If we consider that holotypes can be fixed without the author's explicit, deliberate intent, what is the point of requiring their fixation as a criterion of availability? Again,
I can buy writing off a typo or two if the identity of the intended type is unambiguous. But in cases where the author never explicitly states that a single specimen (only one) is the type, I don't know if we can rightly consider the name available. <span></span></span></p>
<br>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">There are rules in place for how to deal with ambiguity like this pre-1999, but not post, it seems.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">Best,</span></p>
<p class="p1" style="margin:0px;font-size:17px;line-height:normal;text-decoration:none">
<span class="s1" style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-weight:normal">Nate</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); line-height: 1.5;">-<br>
</span><b style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); caret-color: rgb(33, 33, 33); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(187, 0, 0); background-color: white; line-height: 1.5;">Nathaniel
F. Shoobs, </span></b><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); line-height: 1.5;">Curator of Mollusks<br>
</span>
<div><span style="background-color: white; font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(187, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5;">College of Arts & Sciences </span><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); line-height: 1.5;"><span></span>Dept.
of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, The Ohio State University<br>
Museum of Biological Diversity</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); line-height: 1.5;"><span></span><span dir="ltr" style="">1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212</span><br>
<span dir="ltr" style="">614-688-1342 </span><span></span>(Office)<br>
<a href="http://mbd.osu.edu/" style="color: rgb(0, 120, 212);"><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); background-color: white;">mbd.osu.edu</span></a></span></div>
</div>
<div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container" class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message">
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> William Poly <wpoly@calacademy.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 2, 2023 7:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shoobs, Nate <shoobs.1@osu.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley@ku.edu>; Rob Robins <rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu>; Douglas Yanega <dyanega@gmail.com>; nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Curating specimens with uncertain type status?
<div> </div>
</font></div>
<div style="visibility: hidden; font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px; height: 0px; max-height: 0px; opacity: 0; overflow: hidden; display: none !important;">
This is an interesting example Nate. Were all of the specimens part of a single collection with the same locality and date? If so, then the fact that one specimen was separated from the rest indicates it was the intended holotype, and it was
</div>
<div style="visibility: hidden; font-size: 1px; line-height: 1px; height: 0px; max-height: 0px; opacity: 0; overflow: hidden; display: none !important;">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt; line-height:115%; font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">This is an interesting example Nate.<span>
</span>Were all of the specimens part of a single collection with the same locality and date?<span>
</span>If so, then the fact that one specimen was separated from the rest indicates it was the intended holotype, and it was deposited in a museum collection.<span>
</span>If the lot number for the single specimen is much later in numerical sequence from the paratype lot, it also indicates that the holotype specimen was separated later and assigned its own catalog number (and there could be notes in the database to indicate
this possibly [1 ex. removed from xxxx and recataloged as xxxx]?).<span> </span>
If the holotype specimen can be distinguished from all of the others based on measurements, other descriptive information, and the photo/illustration contained within the publication, then it is identifiable as the holotype.
<span> </span>According to Article 73.1.4, “Designation of an illustration of a single specimen as a holotype is to be treated as designation of the specimen illustrated; the fact that the specimen no longer exists or cannot be traced does not of itself invalidate
the designation.”<span> </span>Therefore, the photo or illustration can serve as the holotype designation, even if the catalog information was in error, and this specimen still exists.<span>
</span>There doesn’t appear to be any language in the Code regarding errors in catalog numbers such that it would invalidate the publication of the taxon.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt; line-height:115%; font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">The transposition of labels in the jars by the author, museum staff, or another researcher who examined the specimens later is possible (such mix ups have been known to occur).<span>
</span>Nate mentioned that there were miscommunications between the author and museum staff regarding the lots.<span>
</span>Errors in the specimen database are possible (most databases have errors of various kinds).<span>
</span>As the lot with the single specimen was listed as the holotype in the proof indicates that a later change, possibly by the journal staff or the author, resulted in the error in the final paper.<span>
</span>If this is a valid taxon that was described accurately, it shouldn’t be written off so readily.<span>
</span>If necessary, a petition could be submitted to the Commission to consider and rule on the matter, correct the holotype lot # and conserve the taxon’s name.<span>
</span>But it seems that the original publication of the taxon name can stand as validly published even with the errors in lot assignment contained in the original publication.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt; line-height:115%; font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt; line-height:115%; font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Bill</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<b><span style="color: green;">William J. Poly</span></b><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<b><span style="">Research Associate</span></b><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<b><span style="">Department of Ichthyology</span></b><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<b><span style="">California Academy of Sciences</span></b><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<b><span style="">55 Music Concourse Drive, Golden Gate Park</span></b><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<b><span style="">San Francisco, California 94118</span></b><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<b><span style="color: blue;"><a href="mailto:wpoly@calacademy.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">wpoly@calacademy.org</a></span></b><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<b><u><span style="color: blue;"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.calacademy.org/scientists/ichthyology/wpoly__;!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaQvwPX_Hg$" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.calacademy.org/scientists/ichthyology/wpoly</a></span></u></b><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
<span></span></p>
<h4 style="margin:12pt 0in 3pt; line-height:115%; break-after:avoid; font-size:14pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; font-weight:bold">
<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Article 73. Name-bearing types fixed in the original publication (holotypes and syntypes)<span></span></span></h4>
<p style="margin-right:0in; margin-left:0in; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
73.1. <strong>Holotypes</strong><span></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0in; margin-left:0in; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
73.1.1. If an author when establishing a new nominal species-group taxon states in the original publication that one specimen, and only one, is the holotype, or "the type", or uses some equivalent expression, that specimen is the holotype fixed by original
designation.<span></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0in; margin-left:0in; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
73.1.4. Designation of an illustration of a single specimen as a holotype is to be treated as designation of the specimen illustrated; the fact that the specimen no longer exists or cannot be traced does not of itself invalidate the designation.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt; line-height:115%; font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="font-size:12pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><br>
<span></span></span></p>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 12:47 PM Shoobs, Nate <<a href="mailto:shoobs.1@osu.edu" target="_blank" style="">shoobs.1@osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Agreed with the points from Rob and Andy. Just a few months ago I had a paratype cited using the wrong number and collection code. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It’s also true that editors need to do a better job of proofing these things. That this slipped by the authors, peer reviewers, and editors, ought to be considered. I should add that this was not in a megajournal with a broader scope,
but rather a well-regarded smaller journal that publishes mainly taxonomic papers.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>-Nate<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">--<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<pre style="line-height: 13.5pt; background-color: white;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><img id="m_-2624116994691303971m_8519274437393592166_x0000_i1027" src="cid:189b8ad25f5692e333" alt="The Ohio State University" width="224" height="45" style="width:2.3333in; height:0.4687in"><br></span><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(187, 0, 0); background-color: white;">Nathaniel F. Shoobs</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br>Curator of Mollusks<br></span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(187, 0, 0); background-color: white;">College of Arts & Sciences</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"> Dept. of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology<br>Museum of Biological Diversity, 1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212<br>614-688-1342 (Office)<br><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___http:/*mbd.osu.edu___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6ODNkOTozM2ZkYzQzODllMjVjMzU2Yjk4NGFmNjdiZGIwOGExOGJhOTQ1YWI0ZDM0MjFhYmY3ZDRkYjMwZjlhYzlhODI0Omg6VA__;Lw!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaTLWITRhA$" title="Protected by Avanan: http://mbd.osu.edu" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); background-color: white;">mbd.osu.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div id="m_-2624116994691303971m_8519274437393592166mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style:solid none none; border-width:1pt medium medium; padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Bentley, Andrew Charles <<a href="mailto:abentley@ku.edu" target="_blank" style="">abentley@ku.edu</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 12:39 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Rob Robins <<a href="mailto:rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu" target="_blank" style="">rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu</a>>, Shoobs, Nate <<a href="mailto:shoobs.1@osu.edu" target="_blank" style="">shoobs.1@osu.edu</a>>, Douglas Yanega <<a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="">dyanega@gmail.com</a>>,
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Nhcoll-l] Curating specimens with uncertain type status?</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 1pt;">And to proof that section in collaboration with the collection managers of the various collections you are citing. I agree that I have found untold errors in proofing material examined sections but only when
it is too late because researchers <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 1pt;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">And to proof that section in collaboration with the collection managers of the various collections you are citing. I agree that I have found untold errors in proofing material examined sections but only when it is too late because researchers
did not contact me to look it over.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V<br>
Andy Bentley<br>
Ichthyology Collection Manager<br>
University of Kansas<br>
Biodiversity Institute</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU">Dyche Hall<br>
<a style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">1345 Jayhawk Boulevard</span></a><br>
<a style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561</span></a><br>
<a style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">USA</span></a><br>
<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-3863" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">(785) 864-3863</span></a><br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-5335" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">(785) 864-5335</span></a> <br>
Email: <a href="mailto:abentley@ku.edu" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">abentley@ku.edu</span></a> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>ORCID: <span style="color: rgb(73, 74, 76); background-color: white;">
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/*urldefense.com/v3/__https:/orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5MkK_WMQQ$___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6ZjY0Njo5ODZjMTEwNjZiNTlmMzE1YTE3Y2I0YzljZTM1MWRkMTRkNjU1Yjc2Yzc5NWNiM2RmODBlNjBhMGZhYmE3Mzk0Omg6VA__;Lw!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaSe_7O8Kg$" title="Protected by Avanan: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5MkK_WMQQ$" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258</span></a></span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-AU"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/*urldefense.com/v3/__http:/ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5N5t8iuRQ$___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6NDkyZDo4ZDJkNmY3MjAwODM5ZGRmNjU0MjkwZmU0ODEzMjJlZmU1MDM5ZjAwNjlmNmQyNWMxYTY0MTgyNjUzODI1ZDk2Omg6VA__;Lw!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaTh6mhLww$" title="Protected by Avanan: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5N5t8iuRQ$" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style:solid none none; border-width:1pt medium medium; padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rob Robins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 2, 2023 11:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shoobs, Nate <<a href="mailto:shoobs.1@osu.edu" target="_blank" style="">shoobs.1@osu.edu</a>>; Douglas Yanega <<a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="">dyanega@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Curating specimens with uncertain type status?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Whatever the outcome of this case, it serves to underscore the need for authors to proof the materials examined section of their papers with the same care they do the rest of the work.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m sure nhcoll list members can attest to the many transcription errors encountered in the reporting of catalog numbers in published works…the rate seems quite high compared to other typographical errors.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best wishes,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Rob<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Robert H. Robins</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Collection Manager</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Division of Ichthyology</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><img id="m_-2624116994691303971m_8519274437393592166Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:189b8ad25f34ce8e91" alt="FLMNH Fishes logo email small" width="155" height="56" border="0" style="width:1.6145in; height:0.5833in"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Florida Museum</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>1659 Museum Rd.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Gainesville, FL 32611-7800</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Office: (352) 273-1957</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a href="mailto:rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">rhrobins@flmnh.ufl.edu</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The UF Fish Collection is moving:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/*urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5Nq7jnsCQ$___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6MDYzNzozOWQwNjkzMWJlNmRkZmRmYmZmY2Y5ZGZjZWU1N2UyMjUwYTdlNWUxZTdhZDNmNDRiODNlYzMwYjU2YTI0ZWEyOmg6VA__;Lw!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaQOLuF-hA$" title="Protected by Avanan: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5Nq7jnsCQ$" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fish/</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Search the Collection:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/*urldefense.com/v3/__http:/specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5MkCpBnqQ$___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6MTRiOTplZDZjZTQzODJhNDZmYjI2ZWFmM2ZhMTBjMTVmYmQ1ZWQ4OGNmNTYxNzU4YzcwZDE3MDAzYzgyOTlhNmU5MTdjOmg6VA__;Lw!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaRRegwKFg$" title="Protected by Avanan: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5MkCpBnqQ$" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">http://specifyportal.flmnh.ufl.edu/fishes/</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Search samples suitable for dna analysis:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/*urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5O9jKZbow$___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6ZjUwZjpmNzg4YTMyM2Y1YThlY2YxZjAzYWM3NTlmYWZhNDk2ZTlhYzQzZTQxZjc3ODVmYTAwOThkNTdmMzFlM2MzYjU2Omg6VA__;Lw!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaSqe8D-4g$" title="Protected by Avanan: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/__;!!KGKeukY!1EFeFjsEobDklReesjwP1DgMqGc0cB9OKKia3c0gLxa1h89rfXBjAWmLpSWeOtH5TQJyXegGt5O9jKZbow$" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);">https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/grr/holdings/</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style:solid none none; border-width:1pt medium medium; padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shoobs, Nate<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 2, 2023 12:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Douglas Yanega <<a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="">dyanega@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Curating specimens with uncertain type status?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="left" style="width:100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">[External Email]</span></b><span>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Doug,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your prompt reply. This is one of the conclusions I reached, that the name is not available because a single type was not fixed at the time of publication. But others that I’ve spoken to are of the opinion that: 1. the type was
designated and is simply lost in the type series, warranting a neotype designation. Or 2. that the designation of the lot constituted a syntype designation.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think the former is plausible, but the latter cannot be because post-1999, syntypes must be fixed “explicitly” (meaning if the word syntypes wasn’t used, they ain’t syntypes.)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Nate<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">--</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="line-height: 13.5pt; background-color: white;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><img id="m_-2624116994691303971m_8519274437393592166Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:189b8ad25f45b16b22" alt="The Ohio State University" width="224" height="45" border="0" style="width:2.3333in; height:0.4687in"><br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(187, 0, 0); background-color: white;">Nathaniel F. Shoobs</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br>
Curator of Mollusks<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(187, 0, 0); background-color: white;">College of Arts & Sciences</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"> Dept. of Evolution,
Ecology, and Organismal Biology<br>
Museum of Biological Diversity, 1315 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212<br>
614-688-1342 (Office)<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___http:/*mbd.osu.edu/___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6MmU1YToyNTIxZDRkZTc0NjA0OGU3ZmRjNTgwNjQ4Nzg1YWVmODFjZGE0MjQ1ZWE1YzY4ZmZjOWFiNjMwMjAzMGQxYjg4Omg6VA__;Lw!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaQbcYoRYg$" title="Protected by Avanan: http://mbd.osu.edu/" target="_blank" style=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); background-color: white;">mbd.osu.edu</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div id="m_-2624116994691303971m_8519274437393592166mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style:solid none none; border-width:1pt medium medium; padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Nhcoll-l <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a>> on behalf of Douglas Yanega <<a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="">dyanega@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:55 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Nhcoll-l] Curating specimens with uncertain type status?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 1pt;">On 8/2/23 8: 39 AM, Shoobs, Nate wrote: The author, in the description, says something like this: “Holotype: OSUM 1234, 10 specimens. Paratype: OSUM 4567, 1 specimen. ”. Speaking as an ICZN Commissioner, this
right here is the core issue. After </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 1pt;"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 8/2/23 8:39 AM, Shoobs, Nate wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt; margin-bottom:5pt">
<ol type="1" style="margin-top:0in">
<li style="margin-left: 0in; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-size:10pt">The author, in the description, says something like this: “Holotype: OSUM 1234, 10 specimens. Paratype: OSUM 4567, 1 specimen.”.
</span><u></u><u></u></li></ol>
</blockquote>
<p>Speaking as an ICZN Commissioner, this right here is the core issue.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>After 1999, a holotype designation must be of an individual specimen. The statement above does not designate a single specimen, it designates a "lot" containing multiple specimens. Prior to 2000, this would have devolved to a "by default" situation and the
specimens in that lot would have been considered syntypes.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>I personally don't think the name of this new taxon is available at all, as it has no validly-designated type specimen, because your ample evidence (that what happened here is the accidental switching of the words "holotype" and "paratypes" in the final
published version) is not allowable for names after 1999. The problem is unusual enough that I will pass it by the other Commissioners to see what they think, but I doubt it is salvageable.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Peace,<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 skype: dyanega<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/*urldefense.com/v3/__https:/faculty.ucr.edu/*heraty/yanega.html__;fg!!KGKeukY!24OS2KKItAL8-D4G5G4OkM1nb8H3nt1Z_j2_h-FpF32QKnXx0myduxT_IV-ATq97C60VToF0GnyGMr0$___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6NmQ2MjplYmUwOTU0ZTg3OWYwNjFhYzczZGZmNWJjZTRhYTkxNjhkZDFmNWMyOTJkOGM3YjU0MWJmNjlkZGMzN2EwNmMxOmg6VA__;Lyo!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaSiGHfPPg$" title="Protected by Avanan: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/faculty.ucr.edu/*heraty/yanega.html__;fg!!KGKeukY!24OS2KKItAL8-D4G5G4OkM1nb8H3nt1Z_j2_h-FpF32QKnXx0myduxT_IV-ATq97C60VToF0GnyGMr0$" target="_blank" style="">https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre> "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre> is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Nhcoll-l mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank" style="">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/*mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6ZDZjMzplMTUwZTA5YzRkNTViOGM5YmYwMTFkYTFlZDY2ZWM1MGZiNWE3Y2NmZThiYjlmYWM2ZGFlMGNiMTM2Yjc2YzRkOnA6VA__;Lw!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaQJjRZPzA$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" style="">https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6ZDZjMzplMTUwZTA5YzRkNTViOGM5YmYwMTFkYTFlZDY2ZWM1MGZiNWE3Y2NmZThiYjlmYWM2ZGFlMGNiMTM2Yjc2YzRkOnA6VA</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<br>
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<br>
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<br>
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<br>
society. See <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://url.avanan.click/v2/___http:/*www.spnhc.org___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6ODEwMTpiZWJlMzMyZGI3NTRlM2RmY2Y2ZjMyMjlmMDczYWQ3NjNhN2IwMTk5ZTUwYjFkN2YwYzUxNzJkMDE0Y2MzNjQzOnA6VA__;Lw!!KGKeukY!0t01x0A_EhLIP9DHPKiks6i5jtj-90Do1LXtPIgbpVvXRxscJeFYmmOssp-UaDaCHwAn_N-5WaQWX5wCvQ$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" style="">
https://url.avanan.click/v2/___http://www.spnhc.org___.YXAzOmNhbGFjYWRlbXk6YTpnOjJhYTVjNTcwZjcxZjdlMzRiYjMwYjk0OWY3NWZjZTQxOjY6ODEwMTpiZWJlMzMyZGI3NTRlM2RmY2Y2ZjMyMjlmMDczYWQ3NjNhN2IwMTk5ZTUwYjFkN2YwYzUxNzJkMDE0Y2MzNjQzOnA6VA</a> for membership information.<br>
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>