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<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I have to second Andy Bentley -"</span><span style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(36, 36, 36); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">skills
that require a high level of competency and training.</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">" The vibe I get from the Ivory Tower is that "anyone can do that." After trying to salvage academics'
collections when they retire, I can assure you that not everyone can do the job. </span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">It is a profession with a proud history.
</span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">I'm like the idea of certifications or training that will allow us to argue for higher pay for our Collection Managers
and staff.</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Chris Tacker</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Chris Tacker<i> (he, him, his)</i></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Research Curator, Geology |
</span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9.75pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Ph.D.</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences | 11 West Jones Street | Raleigh, NC 27601-1029</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px;"><br>
</span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9.75pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a href="http://www.naturalsciences.org/">http://www.naturalsciences.org/</a></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px;"><br>
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<div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><a href="https://www.ncdcr.gov/" title="https://www.ncdcr.gov/">NC Department of Natural and Cultural Resources</a></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Office: 919-707-9941 <i> </i></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">christopher.tacker@naturalsciences.org</span></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley@ku.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 23, 2024 2:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Liath Appleton <liathappleton@gmail.com>; Dirk Neumann <d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de><br>
<b>Cc:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] Re: [Nhcoll-l] [KU SUSPECT SPAM] Re: [EXTERN] Re: Collection management: trade or profession?</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">A Museum Studies Master’s degree is exactly that. Provides a theoretical and practical basis for collection management. This is however only one route into collection management.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Its is also safe to say that the “profession” of collection management has changed dramatically over the last 15-20 years with a lot of emphasis on digital skills – databases, digitization, data manipulation,
imaging, data publishing, etc. – skills that require a high level of competency and training.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Andy</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt"> A : A : A :<br>
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°><br>
V V V<br>
Andy Bentley<br>
Ichthyology Collection Manager<br>
University of Kansas<br>
Biodiversity Institute</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt">Dyche Hall<br>
<a href=""><span style="color:#0563C1">1345 Jayhawk Boulevard</span></a><br>
<a href=""><span style="color:#0563C1">Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561</span></a><br>
<a href=""><span style="color:#0563C1">USA</span></a><br>
<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-3863" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">(785) 864-3863</span></a><br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%28785%29%20864-5335" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">(785) 864-5335</span></a> <br>
Email: <a href="mailto:abentley@ku.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">abentley@ku.edu</span></a> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">ORCID: </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:#494A4C; background:white"><a href="https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258" originalsrc="https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258" shash="KvEF9UGA4oVSSXCUbRB1ZAKAyHZzMRK5UE2DJmrYPpaw+0fiLBdXNkkbYMbY1hN6ZOydBwSdNOOTlhx9ZV7u7oqTA/OVb3lOuH0z5D7Fpr8UhU1QNwTCJCHmYo/c3og+28Z+9+fVFXKZFKQw7rQTiSeRAd/tIvaNFsme93kbNBY="><span style="color:#0563C1">https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258</span></a></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/" originalsrc="http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/" shash="IAGVTV/WVEkFRD4nM218j7h7GoWAL5XaI1vqRgAxTB1UbzLnJPMCOijghLzJNJkFMa78Ci/qQ2t6p5csHy+9PxJ3mpwVYVsX1ODS+pBwh6C4LrH5smWiOATdWjhZ5fQ3T2n+1287CyVd8/x3ulpxKvmRBr4Tu1jatS4bkG3rbN0=" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> A : A : A :<br>
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V V V</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Liath Appleton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 23, 2024 12:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dirk Neumann <d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de><br>
<b>Cc:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [KU SUSPECT SPAM] Re: [Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Re: Collection management: trade or profession?</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Librarians are very similar to Collections Managers. How are Librarians classified? In the US, qualifications vary, but I think most positions require a master's degree in Library Sciences. That is not an option for Collections Managers,
at least not yet. </p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 11:54<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM Dirk Neumann <<a href="mailto:d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de">d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">aha - more details to answer the question.</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Payment-wise, there is a difference at least in Germany:</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">A profound technical educated BTA would receive a higher payment level then a biology bachelor that did not continue to complete the masters degree. The same applies for good amateurs (e.g. in entomology), which often are highly, skilled,
but do not have the 'technical education' that would lift them onto a higher payment level.</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">The payment level for a researcher in Germany is E13 (curator), that of an BTA is E9, and that of a bachelor or amateur may start at E6 or E8.</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">A professional (master) gardener in a botanic garden however may start at E5 or E6, even though the degree as a trade master as recognised profession is equivalent at least with a bachelor's degree at university.</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Another problem that we have is that at the moment, there is no such education as 'collection manager' you could graduate from. In the US and here in Europe, there are Museum Studies programmes, but this is something different. A good
starting point would be having the possibility to qualify as a proper 'collection manager' as profession. Senckenberg in Frankfurt does this. Perhaps this would be a suited example for your test case?</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">With best wishes</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Dirk</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Am 23.02.2024 um 18:40 schrieb Callomon,Paul:</p>
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<span style="font-size:8.0pt; font-family:Poppins; color:white">ACHTUNG/ATTENTION:</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt; font-family:Poppins; color:black"> Diese E-Mail stammt von einem externen Absender. / This e-mail comes from an external sender.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">Part of the reason for the question is to bring these words into focus. For some folks, "professional" simply means "paid," and not "amateur." That's not its actual meaning, though - there are
no amateur surgeons or professional carpenters. </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; color:black">The distinction is important, because we should be thinking harder about creating more pathways into museum collections management. At present, the requirements and compensation vary so widely
between individual institutions that it's impossible to say whether this is something that someone with, say, a high school diploma or an associate's degree could aspire to. If it isn't - if to be a CM you need a master's or PhD or "equivalent" - then it's
a profession, and we are likely to see the same demographic as in the other professions. At least we would, if being a CM paid like being a doctor or lawyer...</span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black">Paul Callomon</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black"><br>
<i>Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates</i></span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:black">Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University, Philadelphia</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black"><br>
<i><a href="mailto:callomon@ansp.org" target="_blank">callomon@ansp.org</a> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170</i></span></p>
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<p> </p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> Nhcoll-l
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank"><nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu></a> on behalf of Douglas Yanega
<a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com" target="_blank"><dyanega@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 23, 2024 12:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank">nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a>
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu" target="_blank"><nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Collection management: trade or profession?</span>
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<p><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; font-variant:small-caps; color:black">External.</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; font-variant:small-caps"></span></b></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">On 2/23/24 8:34 AM, Callomon,Paul wrote:</p>
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<li class="x_MsoNormal" style="color:black; list-style-type:"- ""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Is collection management a trade or a profession? What's the difference?</span></li></ul>
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<p>I imagine that most people you asked "What's the difference between a trade and a profession?" could not give a clear and coherent answer discriminating between them. If I had not seen the definitions you posted, I don't think I could have answered this
question, myself, despite 25 years as a collection manager. Frankly, off the top of my head, I would have said that a profession is what you get paid to do - i.e., that's what distinguishes a professional from an amateur. In that sense, trade and profession
are synonymous, since I can't imagine calling something a trade if it is not a source of income.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm not disputing the definitions you gave, just saying that that particular distinction is not intuitive, given the various uses of the word "professional".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Peace.</p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum</pre>
<pre>Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 skype: dyanega</pre>
<pre>phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)</pre>
<pre> <a href="https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html" originalsrc="https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html" shash="upPzqdlr7RbY7tvO0Dr8/LP7hAQKVgRv28jxjMbOXlQicInAvJ36rwUcIhWAHVsoneFfQbdIHH3dGk1Ns27lhR8Thp6IA3uA0QiY46y8KQ8EKs9o/yujyckY/8f2ho5bDcBmO5CPjmqh71sO3xDeaNA35UFdbmLdziSqPTo1WWw=" target="_blank">https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html</a></pre>
<pre> "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness</pre>
<pre> is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82</pre>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><b><span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">Dirk Neumann</span></b></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">Collection Manager, Hamburg</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">Dirk Neumann</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">20146 Hamburg<br>
+49 40 238 317 – 628</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><u><span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif; color:blue"><a href="mailto:d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de" target="_blank">d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de</a></span></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.leibniz-lib.de/" originalsrc="http://www.leibniz-lib.de/" shash="ePj92D0ixGK540TIy6qKj5wScRbnUt7Sc27bq10DJkK4oFjD5ErHKRG1nppqswc6JYzRY1svpB2cWheisTABE7yaH+4mfrAwMMJxmo1h2s9o1/FUOYrD6tYbxs4ZqwPxNZKEPvyCQ7O+ZK4ztH3+FSuX9wcI+G4uyzlKyXPNOP4=">www.leibniz-lib.de</a></span></p>
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<br>
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels<br>
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany<br>
<br>
Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;<br>
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)<br>
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn<br>
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">-- <br>
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels<br>
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany<br>
<br>
Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;<br>
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)<br>
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn<br>
Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst</p>
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