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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks a lot for this
</span><span lang="EN" style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">comprehensive answers. We will inform our team about these things.</span><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Joosep Sarapuu<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">Estonian Museum of Natural History<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Cody Thompson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 9, 2024 2:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dirk Neumann <d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de><br>
<b>Cc:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Fluid specimen room safety<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">If it is not evident within this string, be sure to plan for growth! These renovations are expensive, and it is important to be proactive.<span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Cody W. Thompson, PhD<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Mammal Collections Manager<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">& Associate Research Scientist<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">University of Michigan<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Museum of Zoology<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">3600 Varsity Drive<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Ann Arbor, Michigan 48108<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Office: (734) 615-2810<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Fax: (734) 763-4080<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Email: <a href="mailto:cwthomp@umich.edu">
cwthomp@umich.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Website: codythompson.org<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">"Museums have two main objectives: the increase of knowledge and the diffusion of knowledge."<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">-Alexander Ruthven<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a href="https://lsa.umich.edu/ummz/mammals/donate-to-the-mammal-division.html" target="_blank"><b><span style="color:black">Please click here to support the UMMZ Mammal Division, its collections, and research
mission!!!</span></b></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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On Jul 8, 2024, at 4:49 PM, Dirk Neumann <<a href="mailto:d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de">d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi Alison and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">maybe few (additional) small comments: I have not seen to many large glass containers that burst spontaneously, e.g., because of temperature/rH fluctuations. This can occur (most probably) with badly annealed
historic cylinders of either bad glass quality or thin walls, but these are rare cases.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">However, I have seen too many plastic drums that cracked. Usually, these (rated drums) need to be exchanged in regular intervals (which rarely happens). It is also worth keeping in mind that most US collection
use undenatured ethanol, while most European Collections have to use denatured ethanol, and many MEK denatured ethanol. The keton (methyl-ethyl ketone) accelerates ageing and deterioration of plastics.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">The weak point in stainless steel containers is the seal and the welding, and quality of stainless steel containers differs widely. In terms of fire safety, the general assumption that stainless steel container
always are "safer" than glass containers is wrong, for example if you have a lot of (large) stainless steel containers that evaporate large quantities of ethanol, while tight sealing glass containers do not.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Trays may collect a spillage, but cannot contain ethanol vapours. The real threat is not the ethanol, it is the creation of a combustible atmosphere. A source for such an huge spillage could be an earthquake,
the collapse of shelves (e.g. exceeding structural weight limits), or nearby constructions works. But again, without an ignition source, even such a major spillage would not be a cause for fire. Electric sockets in a storage room below 1,2 m surely are.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Ethanol sensors detecting critical concentrations of ethanol vapours inside the storage room before somebody is switching on the light may be a better investment.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">With best wishes<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Dirk<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Am 08.07.2024 um 19:45 schrieb Stodola, Alison Price:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="color:black">Hi Joosep and the nhcoll community,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="color:black">Our institute constructed a few fluid storage rooms to house mollusk specimens stored in glass jars and vials with 70% to 95% ethanol. These spaces were retrofitted within a standard
office building and required significant reconstruction to pass inspection. In your case, the local fire authority will ultimately determine whether a space meets proper safety requirements. Our fire marshal approved the space specs after many (!) revisions.
For this build, we have:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:black">Each room has metal fire doors, sheetrock walls, sheetrock ceilings, and a flat, finished concrete floor (with no drains). Lights and outlets are spark-free.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:black">The HVAC system was reconstructed to provide a separate exhaust for these spaces, since the vapors themselves can burn if there is a fire; this prevents the ignited vapors from circulating within the
rest of the building in the rare event of a fire.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:black">We are only allowed to store a maximum of 900 liters in each room and we have four such rooms for our entire mollusk collection. This liter maximum is to limit total burn time (I think it's estimated
at staying contained for 2 hours if the entire room combusted and the doors were kept closed).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:black">The fire suppression spray heads were aligned with fixed metal shelving from Bradford Systems. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:black">We have spill kits in each room to sop up spilled ethanol and broken glass. We use spill control absorbent mats and plastic bins to place broken glass in.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">7.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:black">The majority of our jars are stored in rigid plastic bins that are impermeable to ethanol. These bins would contain a spill or broken glass if one or more jars break within that tray. We are not in an
area with high earthquake risk, so they did not require earthquake bars. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">8.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:black">We have reduced the number of larger glass containers (anything over 1 gallon), and all larger lots are stored in blue plastic barrels; these will eventually be moved to a stainless-steel gasket tank
this fall. The stainless-steel tank will be housed in a different space altogether to reduce our fluid volumes in the retrofitted fluid storage rooms. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="color:black">Hope this helps!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="color:black">Alison<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#242424">--------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#242424">Alison Stodola (she, her), Aquatic Biologist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#242424">Acting Curator of Malacology | Illinois Natural History Survey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#242424">Prairie Research Institute | University of Illinois<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#242424">1816 S. Oak Street | Champaign, IL 61820<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;background:white">
<u><span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#174E86"><a href="mailto:alprice@illinois.edu"><span style="color:#174E86">alprice@illinois.edu</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#242424"> |
</span><u><span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#174E86">217-300-0969</span></u><span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#242424"> (office)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:106%;color:#174E86"><a href="https://mollusk.inhs.illinois.edu/" title="https://mollusk.inhs.illinois.edu/"><span style="color:#174E86">INHS Mollusk Collection</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Nhcoll-l
<a href="mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu"><nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu></a> on behalf of Simon Moore
<a href="mailto:couteaufin@btinternet.com"><couteaufin@btinternet.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 5, 2024 4:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dirk Neumann fp. <a href="mailto:d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de"><d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> NHCOLL-new <a href="mailto:nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu"><nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Fluid specimen room safety</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I would second Dirk’s remarks about floor ridges. Having experiences them first hand with a trolley full of quite tall jars filled with alcohol and having to negotiate a floor ridge (on my own - reduced staffing
levels!) so that the jars didn’t knock against each other! This was back in the 1980s. It also takes a large spillage combined with raised external temperature during a hot summer, to produce anything like a realistic fire hazard due to the rather lower
flash point of alcohol versus other volatiles. However, Health & Safety parameters are often slightly exaggerated for obvious reasons.<br>
<br>
With all good wishes, Simon<br>
<br>
Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR<br>
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian.<br>
<br>
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<br>
> On 5 Jul 2024, at 07:18, Dirk Neumann <a href="mailto:d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de">
<d.neumann@leibniz-lib.de></a> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear Joosep,<br>
><br>
> this depends on your local fire safety regulations; in principle, ethanol itself does not burn, but the highly flammable ethanol fumes. Depending on your HVAC system, a sufficiently high air exchange rates in your alcohol storage significantly reduces potential
fire risks. Another relevant factor is reducing potential ignition sources, as ethanol usually does not self-ingnite. It needs a spark.<br>
><br>
> In case of breakage, it is required in some countries that there are grooves or barriers, e.g. at doors to prevent that in case of a larger spillage ethanol can escape from the storage room. However, these grooves or small barriers usually affect much more,
e.g. when you have to wheel carts over these barriers.<br>
><br>
> Storage rooms should be equipped with small emergency kits that help to remove spillages; there are several chemical spill kits with binders etc. on the market.<br>
><br>
> To create a combustible atmosphere it usually requires a "large spillage", e.g. a major earthquake or collapse of storage shelves that knocks off hundreds of jars at once.<br>
><br>
> Hope this helps<br>
> Dirk<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
><br>
> Am 04.07.2024 um 10:43 schrieb Joosep Sarapuu:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Dear all,<br>
>> How have you solved the safety of the rooms for fluid specimen? If the cans break, are there any grooves where the liquids run or how do you dispose of such things? What quantities have you considered in case something like that happens?<br>
>> Sincerely,<br>
>> Joosep Sarapuu<br>
>> Estonian Museum of Natural History<br>
>> <br>
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>><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ****<br>
> Dirk Neumann<br>
> Collection Manager, Hamburg<br>
> Postal address:<br>
> Museum of Nature Hamburg<br>
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis<br>
> of Biodiversity Change<br>
> Dirk Neumann<br>
> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3<br>
> 20146 Hamburg<br>
> +49 40 238 317 – 628<br>
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> --<br>
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><br>
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> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)<br>
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<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">society. See <a href="http://www.spnhc.org">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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-- <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">****</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">Dirk Neumann</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">20146 Hamburg<br>
+49 40 238 317 – 628</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif">-- <br>
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Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany<br>
<br>
Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;<br>
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)<br>
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn<br>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif">-- <br>
Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels<br>
Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany<br>
<br>
Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;<br>
Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)<br>
Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn<br>
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