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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I would use the opportunity, now that this discussion is running, to warn against the (perhaps tempting) practice of using geolocation tools on old collections
that have not previously been registered digitally. Often the actual uncertainty radius of the recorded localities will be much larger than we are used to nowadays, and will make the value of applying coordinates very questionable. The same goes to an even
higher degree for cases where the ‘locality’ given is just a geographical area. It can require quite some study to find out if the name of the area was understood in the same way then as it is now. I have seen a few cases where vague type localities of species
described 100-200 years ago have unjustifiably been pinpointed down to degrees and minutes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">Tom Schiøtte</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"> </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">Collection manager, Echinodermata & Mollusca</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">Natural History Museum of Denmark (Zoology)</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">Universitetsparken 15</span></b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">DK 2100 Copenhagen OE</span></b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"> </span></b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA">+45 35 32 10 48</span></b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:DA"><a href="mailto:TSchioette@snm.ku.dk">TSchioette@snm.ku.dk</a></span></b><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Douglas Yanega<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 30. september 2024 18:41<br>
<b>To:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Lack of latitude and longitude<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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You don't often get email from <a href="mailto:dyanega@gmail.com">dyanega@gmail.com</a>.
<a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification">Learn why this is important</a>
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<p>Assignment of arbitrary points is a balancing act.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It is a recommended practice (e.g., in the Darwin Core protocols) that every specimen-level database record with a georeference
<b>should include an uncertainty radius</b>. There are lots of collections, ours included, that follow this standard.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The problem is that not everyone who USES specimen data makes use of this "error radius" information. As tempting as it is to say "Well, it's not our fault if people abuse our data", it does nonetheless represent a real concern, such that we might NOT want
to put specimen data online if the error radius is exceptionally large.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The use of centroids, common as it is, can have serious repercussions when dealing with assessments for T&E taxa. In my own experience, the datasets for various bumblebees are "contaminated" with so many such points that it has created problems, where very
rare and geographically-limited species are mapping over much larger geographic areas than are realistic. This can keep a species in actual need of protection from BEING protected, and cause wasted resources when a species DOES get listed, and people spend
millions of dollars doing surveys for the species <b>in places where they have never occurred</b>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The responsibility here is shared, ultimately, between data providers and data consumers. Providers shouldn't assume that all users will know to check for big error radii, and consumers shouldn't assume that the error radius is always zero. Sometimes, even
though you might want to have a data point in your database, you either shouldn't assign one, or - if you do - you shouldn't share it online. Not to prolong or extend the discussion, but a similar issue occurs with respect to non-native plants or animals raised
in gardens or quarantine facilities; if they are given a georeference for their "novel" location, this is
<b>very</b> open to misinterpretation. We have thousands of record in our database of this nature, as we maintain a major insectary/quarantine facility, with thousands of voucher specimens, but those data are
<b>not</b> put online <b>unless</b> the data being displayed are for the point of origin.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Peace,<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 office:951-827-8704<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <a href="https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html">https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82<o:p></o:p></pre>
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