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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks Dirk,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">That is great and useful information, and the book chapters look useful across a range of topics, thank you. Your chapter, albeit
on fish, is especially relevant and detailed, and I think will be of great help.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Reading your email and your chapter, I am relieved as it is way easier to carry formalin to fix in the field and step up back at home
than to carry ethanol, and to worry about the timing of stepping up in the field. But to clarify, do you think I don’t need to worry about specimens getting overly fixed/darkened/acidified, if they are simply wrapped in formalin-soaked cheese cloth after fixation
in the field, without first being washed? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">While I have your (and others) attention, may I ask a few fixation related questions? I would love to hear what people have to say
about the fixation of vertebrate brains – I am always concerned that the brain is going to deteriorate because of poor/slow formalin penetration past the skull, and it is difficult to inject into (and hard to tell if damage is being done). Separately, I notice
that your chapter cautions against injecting formalin into muscle, but I have several manuals that do suggest injecting directly into muscle. I wonder if this is different for fish, or if there is a size at which the need to inject into muscle to avoid decay
outweighs the cost? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks again,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Tonya</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Dr Tonya Haff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Senior Collection Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Australian National Wildlife Collection<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Canberra, ACT 2602 Australia<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">+61(0)419569109<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:normal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dirk Neumann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 26 March 2025 5:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Preserving wet specimens in the field?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Tonya and all,<span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">there is a 2 volume book publication on field recording techniques and protocols that is available as free PDF as well; albeit you need to scroll down on the webpage to access the individual chapters directly; maybe this is a useful resource
in general: <a href="http://www.taxonomy.be/gti_abctaxa/volumes/volume-8-manual-atbi/">
http://www.taxonomy.be/gti_abctaxa/volumes/volume-8-manual-atbi/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Processing of formalin preserved fish is described in there, including the return and relevant details to be considered if you are transporting your material back in the checked luggage (IATA compliance).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In general - and depending on the size of the specimens and the temperature (e.g. tropics), you need to be careful to not leave the specimens for too long in the formalin. Especially delicate structures in small fish (e.g. bony pores and
canals of the lateral line on the head) can corrode fast in the acidic formalin, leading, e.g. to an open canal system in lamp eye fishes - which are usually closed. Terrestrial vertebrates probably would be injected with formalin.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Usually (for specimens up to 15-20 cm - again, depending how bulky they are, and how many specimens are in your fixation box), up to three days should be enough. after this, specimens are removed and wrapped in formalin soaked cheese cloth
and kept wrapped in tightly sealing PE drums until back home, where you would stage them.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For carrying formalin, we usually carry more concentrated formalin in the allowed concentration (IATA) into the field and dilute there with clear/clean river water (osmolarity). Depending on where you are, keeping the cooling chain might
be an issue, and carrying dry ice or even LN is also not easy and restricted (dangerous goods).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hope this helps ...<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">With all best wishes<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dirk<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 26.03.2025 um 03:02 schrieb Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Black Mountain):<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am wondering if any of you collect vertebrate specimens in remote field locations which are destined for preservation in ethanol. If so, I would love to hear about your workflows
in the field. For example, do you fix your specimens in the field, and if so, do you carry around ethanol to step them out of formalin while you are away, or do you wait until you are back in your institution? And if so, what do you do with fresh specimens
in the interim?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We are interested in collecting more specimens (terrestrial vertebrates) to be preserved in spirit. We keep running up against logistical issues related to trying to avoid freezing
specimens and then prepping them when back in the lab. Typically we run trips that can take us into the field for weeks at a time. If we want to fix and preserve more than very tiny things while we are on a field trip, I think it means we must carry around
with us quantities of formalin and ethanol that are both potentially hazardous and that take up a lot of space. Alternatively, freezing specimens until we are home seems to me by far the easiest and most efficient thing to do from a logistics point of view,
but I know that it’s preferable to preserve specimens immediately after death, and not have an intermediate freezing period.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I would love to hear any thoughts, suggestions, experiences, recommendations or references anyone may have about this topic.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Tonya<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dr Tonya Haff<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Senior Collection Manager<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Australian National Wildlife Collection<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">National Research Collections Australia, CSIRO<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Canberra, ACT 2602 Australia<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">+61(0)419569109<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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