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I once soaked an alligator skeletal specimen in dilute ammonia and there was a copper wire in with specimen tag. The copper went into solution and turned the bone into a beautiful green color. </div>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><i>Blaine W. Schubert, PhD</i></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><i>Executive Director, Center of Excellence in Paleontology</i></span></div>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><i>East Tennessee State University</i></span></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Jacqueline Miller <jmiller@rom.on.ca><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 25, 2025 11:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Fabian Neisskenwirth <info@naturhistorische-konservierung.de>; nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [Nhcoll-l] Green bird skeleton</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="">HI Jessica, we have also encountered this with some dry, historical canid skulls in our collections. These have been tested by XRF and we find chromium and copper (as well as the usual elements associated with preserved
bone), but no arsenic. It is thought, given the provenance of one skull in particular, that it may have something to do with the soil conditions (one was excavated). Agree with older wires or other mounting materials as well, these will leach into the bone
when soaked.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="">Interesting to have a few green skeletons though, it makes for great collection stories and is not, in-of-itself harmful to the specimen.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="">Best, Jacqui</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Jacqueline Miller, PhD (She/Her/Hers)</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:6.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">ROM acknowledges that this museum sits on the ancestral lands of the Wendat, the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, and the Anishinaabek Nation, which includes the Mississaugas
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fabian Neisskenwirth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> September 25, 2025 7:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Green bird skeleton</span></p>
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<p>Dear Jessica,</p>
<p>John's thought is pretty much the most plausible cause. Brass wires (containing copper) were used very commonly to suspend specimen or glass plates for mounts. It is actually quite common to find greenish stained specimen in different collections. This alteration
is pretty much irreversible. In some way it also is a very interesting effect, since in whole specimens, only the bone and some fatty tissue is stained. In this sense it actually works a a great staining method. Even though I think that in most of the cases
the staining is accidental. </p>
<p>Interesting tough, is that i've noticed that most of the older specimens that still are containing brass wires for mounting that is not corroded and therefore staining the specimens, are specimen preserved in high percentage ethanol solutions (very little
water content). This could eventually help to know in what kind of preservation fluid it was kept in. Off course this is no certainty, but maybe some help for the documentation.</p>
<p>I really don't think that this has something to do with the mentioned arsenic based green pigment. This is more of an issue found on paper materials that were colored with this kind of pigments (Wallpaper, Books, Furniture, etc.). Besides that based from
the time you told that the specimen was made, it was not a very common pigment used (it was banned in Germany for wallpapers use already in 1878). So you would find this mostly in object from the 19th century and not after.</p>
<p>Here is a good source about this pigment (in German, but you can use some translation tool):
<a href="https://materialarchiv.ch/de/ma:material_954?type=all">https://materialarchiv.ch/de/ma:material_954?type=all</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hope this solves the mystery!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>All the best,</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Am 24.09.25 um 20:57 schrieb John E Simmons:</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black">Jessica,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black">Although arsenic exposure is a possibility, I think it is far more likely that the fluid specimen was stored in a copper container. I have seen the same color green in anuran
skeletons stored in copper containers. There were a number of substances added to fluid preservatives that stained specimens green (e.g., alum).</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black">If you know anyone who has an arsenic test kit you could probably confirm whether it is arsenic green. The test kits are relatively easy to use.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black">--John</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">John E. Simmons<br>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Museologica<br>
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Research Associate, Earth and Mineral Sciences Museum & Art Gallery</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Penn State University</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">and</span></i></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia<br>
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 2:35<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM Tir, Jessica K <<a href="mailto:jessica.tir@wsu.edu" target="_blank">jessica.tir@wsu.edu</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi all,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">There is a mint green razorbill skeleton in our collection. The particular shade of green reminds me of arsenic-based pigments like Paris/Scheele's green. I’m wondering if any of you have encountered a green
skeleton like this or have guesses about what happened here?</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">This bird was collected in 1951 and preserved in fluid until 1968 when it was converted to a skeleton. I don’t have any other information about what chemicals or treatments were applied to the specimen.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Thoughts?</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Best,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Jess</span></p>
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<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:#4D4D4D">Washington State University</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:#4D4D4D">Office: 509-335-3515</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.naturhistorische-konservierung.de">www.naturhistorische-konservierung.de</a></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="496" height="192" id="x_Picture_x0020_1" style="width:5.1666in; height:2.0in" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01DC2E0D.FD251270"></p>
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<p>On now at ROM, <a href="https://www.rom.on.ca/whats-on/exhibitions/saints-sinners-lovers-and-fools-300-years-flemish-masterworks">
Saints, Sinners, Lovers, and Fools: 300 Years of Flemish Masterworks</a>. Tickets on sale now at
<a href="https://www.rom.on.ca/en ">rom.ca</a>.</p>
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<p>À l'affiche : <a href="https://www.rom.on.ca/fr/whats-on/exhibitions/vice-vertu-desir-folie-trois-siecles-de-chefs-doeuvre-flamands">
Vice, Vertu, Désir, Folie : Trois siècles de chefs-d'œuvre flamands</a>. Billets en vente sur
<a href="https://www.rom.on.ca/fr ">rom.ca/fr</a>.</p>
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