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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">HI Jessica, we have also encountered this with some dry, historical canid skulls in our collections. These have been tested by XRF and we find chromium and copper (as well as the usual elements
associated with preserved bone), but no arsenic. It is thought, given the provenance of one skull in particular, that it may have something to do with the soil conditions (one was excavated). Agree with older wires or other mounting materials as well, these
will leach into the bone when soaked.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Interesting to have a few green skeletons though, it makes for great collection stories and is not, in-of-itself harmful to the specimen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best, Jacqui<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><img width="109" height="110" style="width:1.1319in;height:1.1458in" id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://projects.rom.on.ca/graphics/new_rom_logo.png"></span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Jacqueline Miller, PhD (She/Her/Hers)</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"><br>
Collections Technician 2 - DNH <br>
<br>
100 Queen's Park<br>
Toronto, ON M5S 2C6<br>
416 586 5769<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">ROM acknowledges that this museum sits on the ancestral lands of the Wendat, the Haudenosaunee
Confederacy, and the Anishinaabek Nation, which includes the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation, since time immemorial to today.<br>
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</span><span lang="ES" style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual">Le ROM reconnaît que le Musée est situé sur les terres ancestrales des Wendats, de la Confédération des Haudenosaunee et de la Nation Anishinabek,
y compris la Première Nation des Mississaugas de Credit, et qu’ils occupent ces terres depuis la nuit des temps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fabian Neisskenwirth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> September 25, 2025 7:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Nhcoll-l] Green bird skeleton<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p>Dear Jessica,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>John's thought is pretty much the most plausible cause. Brass wires (containing copper) were used very commonly to suspend specimen or glass plates for mounts. It is actually quite common to find greenish stained specimen in different collections. This alteration
is pretty much irreversible. In some way it also is a very interesting effect, since in whole specimens, only the bone and some fatty tissue is stained. In this sense it actually works a a great staining method. Even though I think that in most of the cases
the staining is accidental. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Interesting tough, is that i've noticed that most of the older specimens that still are containing brass wires for mounting that is not corroded and therefore staining the specimens, are specimen preserved in high percentage ethanol solutions (very little
water content). This could eventually help to know in what kind of preservation fluid it was kept in. Off course this is no certainty, but maybe some help for the documentation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I really don't think that this has something to do with the mentioned arsenic based green pigment. This is more of an issue found on paper materials that were colored with this kind of pigments (Wallpaper, Books, Furniture, etc.). Besides that based from
the time you told that the specimen was made, it was not a very common pigment used (it was banned in Germany for wallpapers use already in 1878). So you would find this mostly in object from the 19th century and not after.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Here is a good source about this pigment (in German, but you can use some translation tool):
<a href="https://materialarchiv.ch/de/ma:material_954?type=all">https://materialarchiv.ch/de/ma:material_954?type=all</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Hope this solves the mystery!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>All the best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 24.09.25 um 20:57 schrieb John E Simmons:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Jessica,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Although arsenic exposure is a possibility, I think it is far more likely that the fluid specimen was stored in a copper container. I have seen the same color green in anuran skeletons
stored in copper containers. There were a number of substances added to fluid preservatives that stained specimens green (e.g., alum).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">If you know anyone who has an arsenic test kit you could probably confirm whether it is arsenic green. The test kits are relatively easy to use.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">--John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">John E. Simmons<br>
Writer and Museum Consultant</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Museologica<br>
<i>and</i><br>
Research Associate, Earth and Mineral Sciences Museum & Art Gallery</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Penn State University</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">and</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia<br>
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 2:35<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM Tir, Jessica K <<a href="mailto:jessica.tir@wsu.edu" target="_blank">jessica.tir@wsu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">There is a mint green razorbill skeleton in our collection. The particular shade of green reminds me of arsenic-based pigments like Paris/Scheele's green. I’m wondering if any of you have encountered a green skeleton
like this or have guesses about what happened here?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">This bird was collected in 1951 and preserved in fluid until 1968 when it was converted to a skeleton. I don’t have any other information about what chemicals or treatments were applied to the specimen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Jess<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0cm"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A60F2D"><img border="0" width="67" height="67" style="width:.7013in;height:.7013in" id="m_-7199628223398190499m_-5390957517702727107Graphic_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01DC2E0D.FD251270" alt="Washington State University Logo: W, S, U, letters create a cougar head."></span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0cm"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A60F2D">Jessica Tir
</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#595959">(she/her)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D4D4D">Curator</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D4D4D">Charles R. Conner Museum</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D4D4D">School of Biological Sciences</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D4D4D">Washington State University</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D4D4D">Office: 509-335-3515</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D4D4D">Email:
</span><u><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0563C1"><a href="mailto:jessica.tir@wsu.edu" target="_blank">jessica.tir@wsu.edu</a></span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><u><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D4D4D"><a href="https://sbs.wsu.edu/conner-museum/" target="_blank">Conner Museum Website</a></span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Nhcoll-l mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu">Nhcoll-l@mailman.yale.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l">https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>society. See <a href="http://www.spnhc.org">http://www.spnhc.org</a> for membership information.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Fabian Neisskenwirth</b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Restaurator/Präparator<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Waterfohrstr. 20<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">DE-45139 Essen<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Tel: +49 (0) 1573 2778729 <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.naturhistorische-konservierung.de">www.naturhistorische-konservierung.de</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="496" height="192" style="width:5.1666in;height:2.0in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01DC2E0D.FD251270"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>On now at ROM, <a href="https://www.rom.on.ca/whats-on/exhibitions/saints-sinners-lovers-and-fools-300-years-flemish-masterworks">
Saints, Sinners, Lovers, and Fools: 300 Years of Flemish Masterworks</a>. Tickets on sale now at
<a href="https://www.rom.on.ca/en ">rom.ca</a>.</p>
<hr size="0" width="100%" align="center">
<p>À l'affiche : <a href="https://www.rom.on.ca/fr/whats-on/exhibitions/vice-vertu-desir-folie-trois-siecles-de-chefs-doeuvre-flamands">
Vice, Vertu, Désir, Folie : Trois siècles de chefs-d'œuvre flamands</a>. Billets en vente sur
<a href="https://www.rom.on.ca/fr ">rom.ca/fr</a>.</p>
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