From tachtorn.meier at yale.edu Thu Oct 5 11:09:04 2023 From: tachtorn.meier at yale.edu (Meier, Tachtorn) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 15:09:04 +0000 Subject: [yul-naco] YUL NACO list question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tom, Definitely! I did a quick search in the OCLC, and I found records with the terms qualified by nationality, such as German poetry, children's poetry, German poetry, Spanish poetry, etc. in the 372. For me, German poetry could be interpreted as a poem written in German or a poem written by the Germans or German people. But then, there is "Argentine poetry." Argentine isn?t a language but rather a nationality. As a non-native English speaker, I often get confused about the usage. Would you like to post this on YUL-NACO list or would you like to post this on your behalf. I can make it anonymous if you prefer. Best, Wheat From: Bolze, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 1:42 PM To: Meier, Tachtorn Subject: YUL NACO list question Wheat, In addition to that issue we discussed re. the LC-created NAR that Chuck needs to update, which is still in process, I hit another situation that Jeanette suggested might be appropriate for the NACO list. The question has arisen of whether/when in the 372 it is appropriate to use a term qualified by nationality. For example, if one is creating a NAR for a poet living in Germany and writing in German, could the 372 be ?German poetry? (an established LCSH), or should it simply be ?Poetry?? My feeling is that it should just be ?Poetry,? unless the individual very explicitly writes poetry about ONLY Germany and German issues. (Of course, for an NAR for a scholar studying/writing about German poetry, a 372 ?German poetry? would be totally appropriate.) I cannot find any 372 documentation that addresses this specific situation, but the documentation for the 374 clearly says not to qualify by nationality (among other things), which might serve as a model. And as a real-world example, the NAR for Walt Whitman 1819-1892, which has been updated multiple times by LC and is currently RDA-compliant, simply has a 372 for ?Poetry.? But, is this something that might benefit from NACO list discussion? Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tachtorn.meier at yale.edu Thu Oct 5 13:30:34 2023 From: tachtorn.meier at yale.edu (Meier, Tachtorn) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 17:30:34 +0000 Subject: [yul-naco] YUL NACO list question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I apologize for sending an email prematurely. Please feel free to share your thoughts on this NACO question. ?The question has arisen of whether/when in the 372 it is appropriate to use a term qualified by nationality. For example, if one is creating a NAR for a poet living in Germany and writing in German, could the 372 be ?German poetry? (an established LCSH), or should it simply be ?Poetry?? My feeling is that it should just be ?Poetry,? unless the individual very explicitly writes poetry about ONLY Germany and German issues. (Of course, for an NAR for a scholar studying/writing about German poetry, a 372 ?German poetry? would be totally appropriate.) I cannot find any 372 documentation that addresses this specific situation, but the documentation for the 374 clearly says not to qualify by nationality (among other things), which might serve as a model. And as a real-world example, the NAR for Walt Whitman 1819-1892, which has been updated multiple times by LC and is currently RDA-compliant, simply has a 372 for ?Poetry.? Best, Wheat From: YUL-NACO On Behalf Of Meier, Tachtorn Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 11:09 AM To: Bolze, Thomas Cc: Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers Subject: Re: [yul-naco] YUL NACO list question Hi Tom, Definitely! I did a quick search in the OCLC, and I found records with the terms qualified by nationality, such as German poetry, children's poetry, German poetry, Spanish poetry, etc. in the 372. For me, German poetry could be interpreted as a poem written in German or a poem written by the Germans or German people. But then, there is "Argentine poetry." Argentine isn?t a language but rather a nationality. As a non-native English speaker, I often get confused about the usage. Would you like to post this on YUL-NACO list or would you like to post this on your behalf. I can make it anonymous if you prefer. Best, Wheat From: Bolze, Thomas > Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 1:42 PM To: Meier, Tachtorn > Subject: YUL NACO list question Wheat, In addition to that issue we discussed re. the LC-created NAR that Chuck needs to update, which is still in process, I hit another situation that Jeanette suggested might be appropriate for the NACO list. The question has arisen of whether/when in the 372 it is appropriate to use a term qualified by nationality. For example, if one is creating a NAR for a poet living in Germany and writing in German, could the 372 be ?German poetry? (an established LCSH), or should it simply be ?Poetry?? My feeling is that it should just be ?Poetry,? unless the individual very explicitly writes poetry about ONLY Germany and German issues. (Of course, for an NAR for a scholar studying/writing about German poetry, a 372 ?German poetry? would be totally appropriate.) I cannot find any 372 documentation that addresses this specific situation, but the documentation for the 374 clearly says not to qualify by nationality (among other things), which might serve as a model. And as a real-world example, the NAR for Walt Whitman 1819-1892, which has been updated multiple times by LC and is currently RDA-compliant, simply has a 372 for ?Poetry.? But, is this something that might benefit from NACO list discussion? Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominique.bourassa at yale.edu Thu Oct 5 14:10:47 2023 From: dominique.bourassa at yale.edu (Bourassa, Dominique) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 18:10:47 +0000 Subject: [yul-naco] YUL NACO list question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Wheat and Tom, Tom mentioned: ?I cannot find any 372 documentation that addresses this specific situation, but the documentation for the 374 clearly says not to qualify by nationality (among other things), which might serve as a model.? Indeed, the LC-PCC PS for 9.16.1.3 states: Use terms for profession or occupation without indication of the person?s gender, nationality, religion, etc., unless such characteristics are part of the definition of the term itself (e.g., a Rabbi is a Jewish religious leader). Prefer gender-neutral terms to gender-specific terms when possible (e.g., Actor instead of Actress and Fire fighter instead of Fireman). Information not included as part of the profession or occupation term may be appropriate for other elements, such as Other designation associated with the person, see 9.6.1.9. (?) When the term for the profession or occupation includes words that are part of the profession or occupation rather than an indication of the person?s gender, nationality, etc., these may be recorded? (ex. Midwives). The way I see it is that if PCC wanted to forbid us to record nationality in 372, there would be an LC-PCC PS with such instruction. Since there?s no instruction, I interpret this as meaning that we can record such terms. It?s all about cataloger?s judgment! But I am certain there are people who disagree with me. And that?s perfectly fine. Like Wheat and Tom showed ?German poetry? can mean different things to different people. People can even disagree with what the term ?field of activity? means (?a field of endeavour, area of expertise, etc., in which a person is engaged or was engaged?). This is why we find NACO records in which people recorded in 372 German poetry while others preferred to record Poetry. Personally, I rarely, if ever record field of activity such as, 372 $a Poetry, and I don?t think I ever recorded something like 372 $a German poetry $2 lcsh. I prefer to record simply 374 $a Poets and 377 $a ger. This is the fun part about doing NACO work. We all develop our own style. Please, don?t be shy to weigh in. Dominique From: YUL-NACO on behalf of Meier, Tachtorn Date: Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 1:30 PM To: Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers Subject: Re: [yul-naco] YUL NACO list question Dear Colleagues, I apologize for sending an email prematurely. Please feel free to share your thoughts on this NACO question. ?The question has arisen of whether/when in the 372 it is appropriate to use a term qualified by nationality. For example, if one is creating a NAR for a poet living in Germany and writing in German, could the 372 be ?German poetry? (an established LCSH), or should it simply be ?Poetry?? My feeling is that it should just be ?Poetry,? unless the individual very explicitly writes poetry about ONLY Germany and German issues. (Of course, for an NAR for a scholar studying/writing about German poetry, a 372 ?German poetry? would be totally appropriate.) I cannot find any 372 documentation that addresses this specific situation, but the documentation for the 374 clearly says not to qualify by nationality (among other things), which might serve as a model. And as a real-world example, the NAR for Walt Whitman 1819-1892, which has been updated multiple times by LC and is currently RDA-compliant, simply has a 372 for ?Poetry.? Best, Wheat From: YUL-NACO On Behalf Of Meier, Tachtorn Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 11:09 AM To: Bolze, Thomas Cc: Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers Subject: Re: [yul-naco] YUL NACO list question Hi Tom, Definitely! I did a quick search in the OCLC, and I found records with the terms qualified by nationality, such as German poetry, children's poetry, German poetry, Spanish poetry, etc. in the 372. For me, German poetry could be interpreted as a poem written in German or a poem written by the Germans or German people. But then, there is "Argentine poetry." Argentine isn?t a language but rather a nationality. As a non-native English speaker, I often get confused about the usage. Would you like to post this on YUL-NACO list or would you like to post this on your behalf. I can make it anonymous if you prefer. Best, Wheat From: Bolze, Thomas > Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 1:42 PM To: Meier, Tachtorn > Subject: YUL NACO list question Wheat, In addition to that issue we discussed re. the LC-created NAR that Chuck needs to update, which is still in process, I hit another situation that Jeanette suggested might be appropriate for the NACO list. The question has arisen of whether/when in the 372 it is appropriate to use a term qualified by nationality. For example, if one is creating a NAR for a poet living in Germany and writing in German, could the 372 be ?German poetry? (an established LCSH), or should it simply be ?Poetry?? My feeling is that it should just be ?Poetry,? unless the individual very explicitly writes poetry about ONLY Germany and German issues. (Of course, for an NAR for a scholar studying/writing about German poetry, a 372 ?German poetry? would be totally appropriate.) I cannot find any 372 documentation that addresses this specific situation, but the documentation for the 374 clearly says not to qualify by nationality (among other things), which might serve as a model. And as a real-world example, the NAR for Walt Whitman 1819-1892, which has been updated multiple times by LC and is currently RDA-compliant, simply has a 372 for ?Poetry.? But, is this something that might benefit from NACO list discussion? Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tachtorn.meier at yale.edu Tue Oct 10 09:51:38 2023 From: tachtorn.meier at yale.edu (Meier, Tachtorn) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:51:38 +0000 Subject: [yul-naco] Series authority question Message-ID: Dear collective wisdom, I have a question about series authority. If there is a change in the place of publication in the series that has a geographic qualifier in the authorized access point and there is no change in publisher, would you add another 643? The Series Training for PCC Participants, p. 32, said, "Generally, ignore changes of place if there is no change in publisher." Or this is a case of a title change that requires a new authority record. Example: Auth 130 $a Social science notebook (New Haven, Conn.) 643 $a New Haven, Conn $b Scholar Publisher Bib 264 $a New York : $b Scholar Publisher 490 $a Social science notebook Thank you, Wheat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maria.caride at yale.edu Tue Oct 10 10:37:21 2023 From: maria.caride at yale.edu (Caride, Maria) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 14:37:21 +0000 Subject: [yul-naco] Series authority question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Wheat, Dominique and I recently worked on an authority record (no2010013814) for La Novela del Sa?bado, which switched locations and publishers a few times, and kept it all on one record despite the AAP being ?Novela del sa?bado (Seville, Spain)?. We did add a 667 note denoting the changes in publisher and location. There was even a second NAR qualified by publisher?s name that we had deleted as a duplicate. In your case there has been even less variation, so I would think there is no new authority record needed. Cecilia [Maria] Cecilia Caride (she/her) Metadata Librarian, Spanish and Portuguese Yale University Library From: YUL-NACO On Behalf Of Meier, Tachtorn Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2023 09:52 To: Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers Subject: [yul-naco] Series authority question Dear collective wisdom, I have a question about series authority. If there is a change in the place of publication in the series that has a geographic qualifier in the authorized access point and there is no change in publisher, would you add another 643? The Series Training for PCC Participants, p. 32, said, ?Generally, ignore changes of place if there is no change in publisher.? Or this is a case of a title change that requires a new authority record. Example: Auth 130 $a Social science notebook (New Haven, Conn.) 643 $a New Haven, Conn $b Scholar Publisher Bib 264 $a New York : $b Scholar Publisher 490 $a Social science notebook Thank you, Wheat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tachtorn.meier at yale.edu Tue Oct 10 15:44:47 2023 From: tachtorn.meier at yale.edu (Meier, Tachtorn) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 19:44:47 +0000 Subject: [yul-naco] Series authority question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Cecilia, Thank you for sharing your example. I was hoping for no new SAR. I did more research, and I found it on page 9 of the Series Training for PCC Participants , which I think fits my case. I didn?t know how I missed this first round. [cid:image001.png at 01D9FB8F.6062E7D0] So for this case, add 430 Social science notebook (New York, N.Y.) to the existing SAR and maybe add 677. As always, it would be nice if the instruction had examples. Best, Wheat From: YUL-NACO On Behalf Of Caride, Maria Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2023 10:37 AM To: Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers Subject: Re: [yul-naco] Series authority question Hi Wheat, Dominique and I recently worked on an authority record (no2010013814) for La Novela del Sa?bado, which switched locations and publishers a few times, and kept it all on one record despite the AAP being ?Novela del sa?bado (Seville, Spain)?. We did add a 667 note denoting the changes in publisher and location. There was even a second NAR qualified by publisher?s name that we had deleted as a duplicate. In your case there has been even less variation, so I would think there is no new authority record needed. Cecilia [Maria] Cecilia Caride (she/her) Metadata Librarian, Spanish and Portuguese Yale University Library From: YUL-NACO > On Behalf Of Meier, Tachtorn Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2023 09:52 To: Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers > Subject: [yul-naco] Series authority question Dear collective wisdom, I have a question about series authority. If there is a change in the place of publication in the series that has a geographic qualifier in the authorized access point and there is no change in publisher, would you add another 643? The Series Training for PCC Participants, p. 32, said, ?Generally, ignore changes of place if there is no change in publisher.? Or this is a case of a title change that requires a new authority record. Example: Auth 130 $a Social science notebook (New Haven, Conn.) 643 $a New Haven, Conn $b Scholar Publisher Bib 264 $a New York : $b Scholar Publisher 490 $a Social science notebook Thank you, Wheat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 32495 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: