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Hi Dominique,</div>
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Thank you for the thorough information on NACO name practices for people from Belgium. I originally thought Belgium was solely French-speaking, so this was really helpful!</div>
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Best,
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Wheat</div>
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<b>From:</b> YUL-NACO <yul-naco-bounces@mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Bourassa, Dominique <dominique.bourassa@yale.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 4, 2025 9:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers <yul-naco@mailman.yale.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [yul-naco] AAP for French name </div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Wheat,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">When I read the word French, I can’t help but jump right in. If this
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Marcel De Baer is the Belgian judge described in
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);"><u><a style="color: rgb(70, 120, 134); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" data-auth="NotApplicable" originalsrc="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_de_Baer" class="OWAAutoLink" id="OWAc41dadc0-bf7a-27d6-7f68-3d73e90f2fe3" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_de_Baer">Wikipedia</a></u></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">,
it’s a little more complex than simply following the instructions for French names.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Belgian names can be complicated because Belgium has three official languages (Dutch, French, and German). And that doesn’t take into account other languages/dialects that were and/or are still spoken like Walloon
and Flemish. The first questions we must ask is what origin in “De Baer.” To me, it looks like a name of Dutch origin. But that’s just a hunch. Marcel De Baer described in the Wikipedia article was born in Antwerp, which is in the Dutch region of Belgian.
That could be a clue. But he spoke “around 11 languages”! Therefore, I’ll let Hannelore who is from Belgium (not far from Antwerp in fact) confirm that De Baer is of Dutch origin.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">If the name is of Dutch origin, we should follow the instructions for Dutch and Flemish names (F.11.3) which essentially tell us that the construction of the name depends on its origin.</span></p>
<ul style="margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0in;">
<li style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">If the surname is of Dutch origin and the prefix is
<i>ver</i>, record the prefix as the first element. Otherwise, record the part following the prefix as the first element.</span></li><ul style="margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0in;">
<li style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">If we follow this instruction and the example given Beeck, Jan op de, the preferred name is Baer, Marcel de.</span></li></ul>
<li style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">For the name of a Netherlander whose surname is not of Dutch origin, record the part following the prefix as the first element.</span></li><ul style="margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0in;">
<li style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">This instruction does not apply if the person is from Belgium.</span></li></ul>
<li style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">For the name of a Belgian whose surname is not of Dutch origin, apply the instructions for the language of the name.</span></li><ul style="margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0in;">
<li style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">This last instruction would bring us back to the instructions for French you have below, which tells us to record as the first element, the part following the preposition, which Mara explained perfectly and what the example Musset,
Alfred de proves. Thanks Mara!</span></li></ul>
</ul>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">On this subject, the document </span>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);"><u><a style="color: rgb(70, 120, 134); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" data-auth="NotApplicable" originalsrc="https://www.ifla.org/files/assets/cataloguing/pubs/ifla_names_of_persons_belgium_1995.doc" class="OWAAutoLink" id="OWAfbe00c96-2b85-84a9-0cbf-10d4b44831b0" href="https://www.ifla.org/files/assets/cataloguing/pubs/ifla_names_of_persons_belgium_1995.doc">IFLA
Names of Persons - Belgium</a></u></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> states:</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">“<i>Note:</i> Belgian library practice regarding names with prefixes has been variable until now. In the French-speaking part of the country, the tendency is to treat names of French origin according to French
usage and with names of Dutch origin to take the prefix as the entry word.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">In the Dutch-speaking part, the tendency is to treat all names with prefixes according to the traditional usage in The Netherlands, i.e., to place all prefixes, except
<i>ver</i>, at the end of the names and to take the name following the prefix as the entry word.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">However, the Netherlands cataloguing code,
<i>Regels voor de titelbeschrijving</i>, recommends that for international exchange Belgian names should be treated according to the presentation in the national bibliography, as shown in the examples.” The examples show: DE LICHTERVELDE, Charles, Graaf which
conflicts with RDA!!!</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="elementToProof">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Since we have clear RDA instructions, we should follow them. Therefore, it seems that Baer, Marcel de should be the base of the access point, no matter what the presentation on the source is.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Best,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Dominique</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> YUL-NACO <yul-naco-bounces@mailman.yale.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Caelin, Mara<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 4, 2025 8:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers <yul-naco@mailman.yale.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [yul-naco] AAP for French name</span></p>
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</p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Hi Wheat,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">In French, "Du" and "Des" and are contractions of the article plus the preposition (de + le/ de + les), meaning "of the". "De" by itself is only a preposition ("of"), which would put it in the second category mentioned
in the example.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Following the example, it looks like the AAP should be "Baer, Marcel de".</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Hope that is helpful!</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Best,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Mara</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"><b>Mara Caelin</b> <i>(she/her/hers)</i></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Catalog/Metadata Librarian</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Bibliographic Description Unit</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Yale University</span></p>
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</p>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><b>From:</b> YUL-NACO <</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);"><u><a style="color: rgb(70, 120, 134); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="OWAAutoLink" id="OWA64d1c1ee-5290-443f-7264-9172b41cd336" href="mailto:yul-naco-bounces@mailman.yale.edu">yul-naco-bounces@mailman.yale.edu</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">>
on behalf of Meier, Tachtorn <</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);"><u><a style="color: rgb(70, 120, 134); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="OWAAutoLink" id="OWA69b9da6f-3f54-5208-52e8-488426a06f80" href="mailto:tachtorn.meier@yale.edu">tachtorn.meier@yale.edu</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 4, 2025 8:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers <</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);"><u><a style="color: rgb(70, 120, 134); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="OWAAutoLink" id="OWA053c1e00-f6db-118d-c6c5-e736403fd77a" href="mailto:yul-naco@mailman.yale.edu">yul-naco@mailman.yale.edu</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [yul-naco] AAP for French name</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="elementToProof">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Hi!</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="elementToProof">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">I am helping my colleague in constructing an AAP for an individual named "Marcel De Baer." We consulted RDA instruction F.11.5 (see below), but we found the example a bit confusing. Since neither of us is fluent
in French, we are hoping someone can explain the differences presented in the instruction and clarify which form should be applied to this name.</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="elementToProof">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">For verification, the prefix "De" appears with a capital "D" on the sources we have.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Thank you!</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Wheat</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"><img style="width: 10.0312in; height: 5.052in; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" size="24463" height="484" width="962" id="x_x_image_0" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:image001.png@01DBD52F.3C0AEDD0"></span></p>
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