Kinema Club Subtitling Consortium

[Pete Tombs]

My company, PAGAN FILMS, have recently been involved in subtitling a number
of Japanese films for release in the UK on home video (see
http://www.paganfilms.com for latest releases).

I've had an involvement with all stages of the process, from translation and
writing the subtitles to laying them off onto master tape. I can therefore
confirm that it's bloody hard work! More than that, getting it right is
really, really hard. The notion, quoted in one post, that "working out the
in and out times of the subtitle is easy" and that you then go off and let a
computer do it for you, is just plain wrong. Getting the in and out times
right is incredibly hard and time consuming. I guess it gets easier with
practice, but when you've only got your reaction times and a keyboard space
bar to work with, believe me it's hard. There's actually an emotional
quality to having the subtitles in the right place too, that only becomes
apparent when you sit down at the screen and work though it. It's much
easier, of course, do do it on an actual print of the film where you can
physically see the frame where the speech begins and ends. On a video it's
much harder.

Finally, on the notion of copyright, weren't laws in all major film
producing countries harmonised at the GATT talks a few years ago? If so, and
I believe this is the case, then copyright persists for something like 75
years after the death of the author. Which could be the screenplay writer,
the film company or director in the case of a film. Maybe even one of the
actors. Despite what the so-called "public domain" companies seeling mail
order videos in the States may say, there really is no such thing as a film
that's owned by no-one. The reason fansub anime people haven't been taken to
court is, I should imagine, that the companies either don't know about it or
realise that they wouldn't even recover their legal costs. However, that
doesn't mean it isn't strictly speaking illegal.

Pete Tombs


----- Original Message -----
From: B Dunn <bdunn at netmagic.net>
To: <KineJapan at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 1999 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kinema Club Subtitling Consortium


> > Property.)  Though how these matters might play out in a real world
> > situation could be different (after all, how many producers or sellers
of
> > fansubbed anime have been sued?), it's worthing keeping in mind that:
> >
>
>     Just a question on the legality of this.  As far as the fan-subbing of
anime goes, is this a legal practice?  If they charge for only the blank
tape and shipping versus charging additional for the service, does this make
a difference in it being legal or not?  Of course, the Japanese companies
going after the fan-subbers is a different issue.  I know the video stores I
rent my Japanese videos at (in America) all rent out copies of the original
tapes, with permission.  They even rent out fan-subbed anime.  Is this the
kind of thing going on with the fan-subbers and that we are talking about
here (getting permission to copy and subtitle films)?
>
> >This issue doesn't really seem to be settled, particularly since most of
> >the questions have revolved around works that are still protected in
their
> >country of origin but are public domain in other countries.
>
>     So is this what makes it legal for anime fan-subbers to copy the
films?  Or at least keeps the Japanese companies from coming after them?
>
>     It seems like if you are only going to go for very old films (over 50
yrs old behind the copyright thing), you may not get as many participants.
What about all of the movies that have been made since 1950?  I think there
may be a bigger desire for more recent films.  As far as English-subtitled
Japanese films go, as I'm sure you all know, there are basically Kurosawa's
films, Itami's films, and occasionally others, which are few and far
between.  Perhaps more of a variety of films (more than 50+ years old) for
this project would increase interest and help it along better.  I know there
are subtitled versions of newer films going around for the film festivals
and everything.  Why aren't these released onto video after all the work has
been done to subtitle it?  There are a lot of great films being released in
Japan, but hardly anything makes it to other markets.  I have seen subbed
versions of "E no Naka no Boku no Mura" (Village of Dreams) and "Maboroshi"
(Maboroshi no hi!
> kari -- IIRC) come out recently, plus "Tokyo Fist" and "Tetsuo 1" and "2"
(on Manga Films, I think).  But that's about it.  Is the rest of the world
so jaded about Pearl Harbor that only anime and yakuza films are marketable
outside of Japan?  I think that this project could do a lot more than just
provide research materials to a few film researchers around the world who
don't speak Japanese.  Like someone mentioned, why not go through one of the
larger fan-subbers to get things released or at least push other films
through channels to get things released on real labels in the US/Europe.  I
know Tarantino's company (forgot the name) put out Kitano's Sonatine.  I'm
sure he'd dig some of the work by Sabu or Harada or Iwai (I know there are
more, but being in the states and a student - read: no time or money - I
haven't seen a whole lot).
>
>     And as far as the actual work, I think that splitting up the
responsibilities is a good idea, whether it is with a prof and
students/teachers from his/her institution's Japanese department or through
members of this list who know Japanese well enough to translate into
English.  I myself would be interested in doing some translation, as long as
I had the Japanese script.  But I don't have the equipment or access to
equipment for the output.  Which is why I am for the splitting up of work.
Having one person responsible for all of the work on one tape is going to
cut out a lot of people who are willing and able to do some things but
aren't able to do others.
>
> That's all.  I have been saving this up since the first post because I
wanted to see what other people said.
>
>
> Brian Dunn
> bdunn at netmagic.net
>