[LEPS-L:8035] FW: Re: Extinct 'species'

[Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX]

OK, lets try it this way:
- I viewed the list provided by John Shuey for Canada and continental USA as
good news because there are no extinct butterfly species on it
- I made no comment on the worth or lack thereof re legal protection of
subspecies; but if anyone is wondering; my opinion is that subspecies which
are endangered should receive legal protection
- In my opinion there are no good nor bad lawmakers. There are simply
lawmakers who do their jobs for a variety of reasons and with a variety of
values.  Sometimes I do not entirely agree with the results of their work.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Jones [mailto:neil at NWJONES.DEMON.CO.UK] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 4:47 AM
To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu
Subject: [LEPS-L:8031] Re: Extinct 'species'


In article
<60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F43088F2D3B at blaze.bcsc.GOV.BC.CA>,
  Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca wrote:
> Followed this thread with interest.  The website search results shared
by
> John Shuey were interesting.  Setting aside the Euploea eleutho from
> Micronesia as being not relevant to the continent I live on; I note
with
> interest that the website does not show ANY extinct species for Canada
and
> USA(continental part).  I see a list of subspecies and one thing that
does
> not have a subspecies name.  Of course I use the word species in the
> biological and taxonomic sense that most reasonable people also use.
> Lawmakers have been known to pervert the language and the science and
define
> 'species' as almost anything - talk about 'dumbing down'.

This is "bad lawmakers" theme is obviously one of your favourites .:-)

I recall you posting about the "Gestapo" some while ago.

However, I see it differently. As I see it nobody can actually properly
specify where the boundaries between species and subspecies lies.
There species rings like the pair of gulls that circle the pole in a
cline of races which behave as separate species where the extremes meet
in the UK.

In the list you mention there is Glaucopsyche lygdamus xerces.

Whether this is a full species or a subspecies is unknown. This is a
matter of opinion. We may never know because it is EXTINCT.
Another distinctive race palosverdesensis is hovering on the brink.

As a conservationist I do not see a problem with legislation protecting
subspecies. To those who see conservation as one of their primary
interests in the study of lepidoptera, legislation like the US
Endangered Species Act that protects the habitat of such unique jewels
of nature is a very good thing indeed.

If there is any "dumbing down" in the general debate on this
issue it comes from the pro-destruction anti-conservation lobby who use
 tacktics such as dubious "Bent-science" web sites to promote half
truths and cobbled statistics to convince those who have not studied
ecology in detail.

--
Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/
"At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog
National Nature Reserve


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