From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Sun Apr 1 00:51:22 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 01:51:22 -0400 Subject: worthy conservation organizations In-Reply-To: Joshua Stuart Rose "worthy conservation organizations" (Mar 31, 7:03pm) References: Message-ID: <1010401015125.ZM20670@Gochfeld> Why isn't population growth the ultimate environmental problem. M. Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From be496 at lafn.org Sun Apr 1 01:58:35 2001 From: be496 at lafn.org (Dameron, Wanda) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 22:58:35 -0800 Subject: worthy conservation organizations References: <1010401015125.ZM20670@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <3AC6D19B.C65C5E9D@lafn.org> Who said it wasn't??? W. Dameron Michael Gochfeld wrote: > > Why isn't population growth the ultimate environmental problem. > > M. Gochfeld > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > -- Wanda Dameron Flutterby Press LA-NABA, LepSoc, ATL, Lorquin, Xerces 23424 Jonathan St., Los Angeles, Ca. 91304 818-340-0365 be496 at lafn.org ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From ghg3 at aol.com Sun Apr 1 09:04:09 2001 From: ghg3 at aol.com (GHG3) Date: 01 Apr 2001 13:04:09 GMT Subject: Holland's Butterfly Names Message-ID: <20010401090409.19862.00001572@ng-cb1.aol.com> "Gaulia est provincia" That's just about all I can remember of my junior highschool latin (other than something about "hic hike hoc"). No wonder my spelling stinks. Anyway, this may be a FAQ, and so I'm sorry. I'm new to Lepidoptera.. I've heard a rumour that somewhere there is a list that gives the proper current taxonomic names of all the moth species that Holland lists. Does anyone know where I could find a copy? George Gifford ghg3 at aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From viceroy at gate.net Sun Apr 1 10:03:54 2001 From: viceroy at gate.net (Anne Kilmer) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 10:03:54 -0400 Subject: worthy conservation organizations References: <1010401015125.ZM20670@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <3AC7354A.C19C73B7@gate.net> Michael Gochfeld wrote: > > Why isn't population growth the ultimate environmental problem. > > M. Gochfeld > > Well it is, of course, but I bet most of us have already made our contribution in that direction. And I don't see myself begging my daughter (who is in her mid-30s and has been waiting on a PhD) to refrain because her brother has already contributed. So our other choice is to try to configure the burgeoning population, and its habits, in such a way as to make the planet user-friendly to wildlife as well. It would be kindly of us to avoid medical treatment and die inexpensively, but I find I'm not doing that, either. And if I'm not, why should anybody else? Anne Kilmer South Florida ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jrg13 at psu.edu Sun Apr 1 10:57:13 2001 From: jrg13 at psu.edu (John Grehan) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 10:57:13 -0400 Subject: worthy conservation organizations In-Reply-To: <3AC7354A.C19C73B7@gate.net> References: <1010401015125.ZM20670@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010401105713.3517d338@email.psu.edu> >> Why isn't population growth the ultimate environmental problem. >> >> M. Gochfeld >> >So our other choice is to try to configure the burgeoning population, >and its habits, in such a way as to make the planet user-friendly to >wildlife as well. >Anne Kilmer I agree with both views. The ultimate problem (or at least a driving factor) is population expansion in relation to its impact on the environment. Given the reality of a continued expansion and a concurrent drive for an even greater consumption of resources (whether it be subsistence or 'development' the immediate imperative is finding (and applying!) ways to make these dual expansions occur in a way that they contribute to a zero (ideal) deterioration of the environment. I tend to believe new developments in techology (ironically) may be the necessary and only practical solution to address the consumption demand, but appropriate landuse models will need to be applied if we wish to have other species flourish - whether for pragmatic or aesthetic reasons. John Grehan ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Sun Apr 1 01:26:53 2001 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy or Aud Fischer) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 22:26:53 -0800 Subject: why caterpillars eat their eggshells References: <3.0.1.16.20010329221637.3d9f4c0a@email.psu.edu> Message-ID: <013c01c0bac4$74435520$bfdcc2cf@nysven> The first step in answering the questions might be to ask "Why do some caterpillars each their eggshells, and some do not?" Caterpillars of some butterflies definitely do not eat the eggshells (chorion), others eat them sometimes or only partially, and some species always eat the entire eggshell. I have no idea what the answer to the question is, other than having previously read the assorted speculations that have been repeated in various postings in this thread. And of course there may be more than one answer, with different butterfly species eating (or not) the eggshells for different reasons. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Grehan" To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: why caterpillars eat their eggshells > > >Please straighten this out.... why DO they eat their eggshells? > > Probably for the same reason we eat anything at all. There is an > object that fulfulls a physiological requirement - hunger. Those > caterpillars are of such a physionlogy that they respond to the > egg shell as food and thus they eat. This may result in > nutritional or microbial benefit, but I am not aware that > the caterpillars take action with this or any other result > in mind. > > John Grehan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From burnbank at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 1 12:31:10 2001 From: burnbank at sympatico.ca (Don Lafontaine) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 12:31:10 -0400 Subject: multicaudata ( try IV ) References: <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <3AC757CE.71DA8DC2@sympatico.ca> Ron: You are correct in your assessment of how Papilio multicaudata should be declined in either Papilio or as Pterourus multicaudatus but that is not the real issue here. A number of key workers on North American butterfly taxonomy (and elsewhere also) have decided not to follow the rules of the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN) but to return all names to their original spellings regardless of the genus name being used. There was an unsuccessful attempt to have the new version of the rules of the ICZN (effective Jan 1 2000) do this, the main reaons being: fewer and fewer scientists know how to decline names; computer catalogs can't deal with multiple spellings of a single species; and the genera are so much in dispute that species names keep changing so rapidly that we end up with Papilio multicaudatus!!! Moth works have for the most part continued to follow the ICZN rules but many of us would find it easier to use original spellings but think that the rules provide stability and breaking them does not. So the real issue is do we fololow the ICZN or not!! If so, then the debate as to the proper ending of species names can proceed. Don Ron Gatrelle wrote: > First part of this transmission can be foung in part I. Part of the second > part in Brodkin's reply. Now (hopefully) to what has not yet made it > through to Leps L. > > ...Next, in the above, only popular (informal or semi-scientific) > literature was cited. There is no mention of the most recent lists (dos > Passos, Miller/Brown /Ferris, or MONA) - which are the latest in a long > line of American taxonomic lists which have been (and ARE) The Standards. > There is no mention of the latest scientific literature dealing with > the taxonomy of multicaudata (us). That being, the 100% scientific > publication: Systematics of Western North American Butterflies, Thomas C. > Emmel editor. I will come back to this later. > What we are after here is not "just" an understanding of Latin gender > suffixes. We are after the correct spelling of a butterfly's "name" > (scientific identity) according to the latest rules of the International > Commission on Zoological Nomenclature. In other words, what is the correct > latinization under the rules of the ICZN. > So here is the deal. Kirby (1844) described it as -a. Dos Passos (1964) > listed it as -a. Miler/Brown list it as -a. When under the genus Papilio, > by the rules of the ICZN, the name should be multicaudata - with an -a. > Next, we have the genus Pterourus, which some only see as a subgenus. > Ferris (correctly) amended the spelling to multicaudatus to comply with the > spelling under the genus Pterourus. > Bottom line. With Papilio it is multicaudata, But with Pterourus AND > with Papilio (Pterourus) it is multicaudatus. Now, Opler's use of both is > just a publication error. Scott is technically correct. I don't have > Tilden/Smith - if they use -us under Pterourus they are correct - if they > use -us under Papilio they are incorrect ( I don't have their book). Some > other references. In Btflys of Can. it is incorrect as the genus is Papilio > and the spelling is -us. Same for the new Btflys of BC Can - Papilio is the > genus and multicaudatus (should be -a). Most amazingly is the use by Emmel > and Austin in W. Systematics. There they describe two new subspecies under > Papilio multicaudatus - they are, grandiosus and pusillus. Two new > erroneous -us endings. (Can I here amend this to the correct spellings? No > the code does not allow internet science.) > REPHRASE. The spelling was amended by Ferris (correctly) to fit > Pterourus. Those who are using multicaudatus are NOT following Ferris (or > the rules) if they are also not using the corresponding genus that (by the > code) necessitates the -us spelling. NOW, if there is some rule I am > unaware of that even though "Papilio" is used yet somehow Pterourus is > understood - then I guess it is OK to use multicaudatus with Papilio. > > Ron > > PS. Scientific names are about a whole lot more than Latin (and Greek). > They are about technical taxonomic delimitations of observable evolutionary > developments. Common names aren't about anything other than what makes > amateurs - in their country's language - feel good. (Please note that I do > fairly frequently use (and "like") common names - I just know their place. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From viceroy at gate.net Sun Apr 1 12:29:13 2001 From: viceroy at gate.net (Anne Kilmer) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 12:29:13 -0400 Subject: why caterpillars eat their eggshells References: <3.0.1.16.20010329221637.3d9f4c0a@email.psu.edu> <013c01c0bac4$74435520$bfdcc2cf@nysven> Message-ID: <3AC75759.4C5A5265@gate.net> Because they're there. Some butterflies coat their eggs with noxious chemicals ... those with scent pockets on their wings do this. Monarchs, tropic queens and such. Ants do not care to eat such eggs. Were I exploring such things, I would wonder whether the chemical-laced shells therefore help protect the infant caterpillar from such predation. Pretend the question is phrased "why do caterpillars benefit from eating their eggshells", and the responses will seem less tautological. I was told, as a novice butterfly farmer, never to roll the eggs off the plants to take home and rear (as Butterfly world does) because if the egg is lying around loose, the larva is likely not to find it and eat it, and may therefore fail to mature properly. Take the leaf the egg's on, they said, or stick the loose egg to a host plant with a small quantity of egg white. I haven't tried that, and I don't want to. It is easy to staple the eggy leaf to a host plant. But Butterfly World's butterflies look just fine, so I wonder whether this is foolish superstition, or whether they are rearing the eggs is such sterile conditions that ants aren't a factor. (one assumes so.) I'm sure somebody actually knows, but the answer is going to be all dressed up in long words and hidden someplace amateurs don't want to look for it. Anne Kilmer South Florida Cris Guppy or Aud Fischer wrote: > > The first step in answering the questions might be to ask "Why do some > caterpillars eat their eggshells, and some do not?" Caterpillars of some > butterflies definitely do not eat the eggshells (chorion), others eat them > sometimes or only partially, and some species always eat the entire > eggshell. I have no idea what the answer to the question is, other than > having previously read the assorted speculations that have been repeated in > various postings in this thread. And of course there may be more than one > answer, with different butterfly species eating (or not) the eggshells for > different reasons. > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Sun Apr 1 12:55:01 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 11:55:01 -0500 Subject: worthy conservation organizations In-Reply-To: <3AC6D19B.C65C5E9D@lafn.org> References: <1010401015125.ZM20670@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010401114958.00b22420@pop3.norton.antivirus> Thank you Wanda for speaking up. You will find a few people who say it is not a problem. You will find few people who say it is the most important problem and the root of our other problems. Most people seem to be in denial, hoping the problem will solve itself. ....................Chris Durden At 10:58 PM 3/31/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Who said it wasn't??? W. Dameron > >Michael Gochfeld wrote: > > > > Why isn't population growth the ultimate environmental problem. > > > > M. Gochfeld > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > >-- >Wanda Dameron >Flutterby Press >LA-NABA, LepSoc, ATL, Lorquin, Xerces >23424 Jonathan St., Los Angeles, Ca. 91304 >818-340-0365 be496 at lafn.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From viceroy at gate.net Sun Apr 1 17:46:28 2001 From: viceroy at gate.net (Anne Kilmer) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 17:46:28 -0400 Subject: why caterpillars eat their eggshells References: <3.0.1.16.20010329221637.3d9f4c0a@email.psu.edu> <013c01c0bac4$74435520$bfdcc2cf@nysven> <3AC75759.4C5A5265@gate.net> Message-ID: <3AC7A1B4.2A38E87F@gate.net> this garbled itself somehow. see if this makes better sense Anne Kilmer wrote: > > > I was told, as a novice butterfly farmer, never to roll the eggs off the > plants to take home and rear (as Butterfly world does) because if the > egg is lying around loose, the larva is likely not to find the shell and eat > it (it rolls away), and may therefore fail to mature properly. sorry Anne ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Sun Apr 1 17:59:12 2001 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 16:59:12 -0500 Subject: First Lep Sighting of the Year!!! Message-ID: <20010401.165916.-198467.0.mbpi@juno.com> Forgive my excitement, but I was fortuitous enough to see my first harbinger of Spring here in the Chicago metropolis...and it wasn't a Turdus migratorius... Today was sunny though nippy, but something told me it would be a good day to see a Ourningmae loakcae, if nothing else. (Does "Pig Latin" count as Latin?!) Okay, okay, I can almost "see" the less-than-amused looks at my adolescent attempt at levity, so I will refrain from further fun-poking.... I decided to take a walk through a woodlot near my home, and was rather crestfallen to see it had been considerably "thinned," and looking about as grey, dead and dismal as unexpectedly possible on the first of April. Not a hint of "spring" anywhere: not even a sprout of green or a leaf bud. But I dutifully trudged on, knowing that this particular woodlot had graced me with a number of butterfly sightings in past perandials. After walking along the trail and then returning the same route without observing even an avian species, I was ready to give up, and so cut a path through the severed understory. Lo and behold, there on a stump, sunbathing in all its overwinter glory (and none the worse for wear), was a Polygonia comma! It was so bright and beautiful, compared to its drab surroundings, that I wanted to yell for someone to "come here and see this!" Unfortunately (or fortunately, considering the questionable neighborhood I was in), there was no one else around. I have to admit: it made my day. (It was my first sighting of a Comma that got me started in butterflies.) Now...if I can just find those elusive Incisalia polios that are "rumored" to be in the bearberry at Illinois Beach State Park... Mary Beth Prondzinski Evanston, Illinois USA ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Boydtd at aol.com Sun Apr 1 18:30:57 2001 From: Boydtd at aol.com (Boydtd at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 18:30:57 EDT Subject: re-subscribe Message-ID: <20.14351167.27f90621@aol.com> For some time I have been receiving nothing from you. What has happened? Please get me back into the group. Trevor Boyd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010401/0efb9aee/attachment.html From beebuzz at kiva.net Sun Apr 1 19:23:23 2001 From: beebuzz at kiva.net (Liz Day) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 18:23:23 -0500 Subject: why caterpillars eat their eggshells In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010401181837.00aa9bd0@b.pop.kiva.net> >...the eggshells are very rich in protein (dunno what sort) and are consumed in order that this valuable resource be not wasted. Yeah, that's what I'd always thought, but perhaps it is not the whole story. This would of course require that the larvae be able to digest the eggshell protein, whatever kind it is.... >I don't like the hypothesis of feeding on conspecifics stimulated by kairomones in their >bodies from teh plants they feed on. This would argue for coprophagy, too..... Unless there were other, additional responses to chemicals that inhibited them from eating dead ones (certainly many good reasons for not eating dead ones come to mind). Cheers, Liz ------------------------------------------------------------- Liz Day Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA (40 N, ~86 W) USDA zone 5b. Winters ~20F, summers ~85F. Formerly temperate deciduous forest. daylight at kiva.net www.kiva.net/~daylight ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From lutzrun at avalon.net Sun Apr 1 20:19:44 2001 From: lutzrun at avalon.net (Martha Rosett Lutz) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:19:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: why caterpillars eat their eggshells Message-ID: Ummmm . . . I'm not sure how to explain this delicately. Liz Day apparently misunderstood me when I mentioned coprophagy. In her response to my note, she wrote: MVL: >I don't like the hypothesis of feeding on conspecifics stimulated by kairomones in their >bodies from the plants they feed on. This would argue for coprophagy, too..... LD: "Unless there were other, additional responses to chemicals that inhibited them from eating dead ones (certainly many good reasons for not eating dead ones come to mind)." I wasn't thinking of necrophagy (is that a word?). Coprophagy is something a bit different. Let's just say that in spite of plenty of opportunities to sample their frass (okay--I don't 'scoop' after every time my caterpillars relieve themselves--I'm a bit lazy and just clean the cages once every day or two), the leps I work with hav never tried it. In Stride, Martha Rosett Lutz ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From beebuzz at kiva.net Sun Apr 1 20:58:52 2001 From: beebuzz at kiva.net (Liz Day) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 19:58:52 -0500 Subject: why caterpillars eat their eggshells In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010401195541.00a96570@b.pop.kiva.net> >I wasn't thinking of necrophagy (is that a word?). Coprophagy is something >a bit different. .... the leps I work with hav never tried it. Oops. Duh. But in either case, the eater risks getting a disease, so maybe that's why they don't do these things. Liz Day ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Mon Apr 2 10:52:59 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 10:52:59 -0400 Subject: Propagation of typos In-Reply-To: Don Lafontaine "Re: multicaudata ( try IV )" (Apr 1, 12:31pm) References: <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3AC757CE.71DA8DC2@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1010402105302.ZM3630@Gochfeld> It was my understanding long ago that if a name was misspelled on the original description, it nonetheless attained priority and could not be corrected unless there was evidence that the author intended a different spelling. In other words if it was a typographical error, the author could correct it, but if it was a misspelling it could not be changed. Is this still true (or was it ever true) and if so how does it apply to endings that do not agree in gender. What's the point in changing a species name everytime someone revises at the genus level. MIKE GOCHFELD ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon Apr 2 00:40:29 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 23:40:29 -0500 Subject: Propagation of typos In-Reply-To: <1010402105302.ZM3630@Gochfeld> References: <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3AC757CE.71DA8DC2@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010401233040.00b2ad10@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 10:52 AM 4/2/2001 -0400, you wrote: >It was my understanding long ago that if a name was misspelled on the >original description, it nonetheless attained priority and could not be >corrected unless there was evidence that the author intended a different >spelling. >In other words if it was a typographical error, the author could correct >it, but if it was a misspelling it could not be changed. --------------------- I understand that a mismatch in gender of the original spelling is to be treated as an obligatory correction to be made automatically. --------------------- >Is this still true (or was it ever true) and if so how does it apply to >endings that do not agree in gender. > >What's the point in changing a species name everytime someone revises at >the genus level. MIKE GOCHFELD -------------------- Because it feels right linguistically in Latin, the language chosen for international scientific names for organisms. Many languages pay more attention to gender (2 or 3) than we do in English but even in English it still matters on occasion (his/her, Mr./Ms.) ........................Chris Durden > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Mon Apr 2 00:03:36 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 21:03:36 -0700 Subject: Holland's Butterfly Names References: <20010401090409.19862.00001572@ng-cb1.aol.com> Message-ID: <3AC7FA18.C7AE7BFD@extremezone.com> As an aside, if the PhyloCoder's are successful in replacing the Linnaean System, that will make publications such as the one George is looking for obsolete (in the far future). Stan GHG3 wrote: > > "Gaulia est provincia" > > That's just about all I can remember of my junior highschool latin (other than > something about "hic hike hoc"). No wonder my spelling stinks. > > Anyway, this may be a FAQ, and so I'm sorry. I'm new to Lepidoptera.. I've > heard a rumour that somewhere there is a list that gives the proper current > taxonomic names of all the moth species that Holland lists. Does anyone know > where I could find a copy? > > George Gifford > ghg3 at aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Mon Apr 2 02:45:01 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 02:45:01 -0400 Subject: Propagation of typos References: <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3AC757CE.71DA8DC2@sympatico.ca> <1010402105302.ZM3630@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <004901c0bb40$719a1bc0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Personally, I agree with James Scott that gender matching is not too important or even impossible. (A female genus with a franki male species for example.) I favor sticking with the original spelling method just because of the _many_ potential genus changes over the centuries Mike mentions below. But I will not do so until the ICZN changes the rule. Without rule we have scientific anarchy - which can only lead to dumbed down science. Do note however that the use of Papilio multicaudatus in some recent books was not done to retain the original spelling (which is multicaudata) nor to meet the code's latinization rules. Sorry ( friends (-: ) it's just sloppy. However, this technically incorrect combination in books that cover scores of taxa is certainly overlookable versus a scientific paper specifically on this taxon and its subspecies. Back to the matter of changing genus names. When a researcher publishes a new genus - or generic alignment - none of us "have" to use it. But - I think a specialist should be given a lot of professional respect - especially by popular book authors who are not expert in that particular area - and use the new combinations. A good current example is the genetic based generic work by Dr. Wahlberg on the Melitaeini. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gochfeld" To: "Leps-l" Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:52 AM Subject: Propagation of typos > It was my understanding long ago that if a name was misspelled on the > original description, it nonetheless attained priority and could not be > corrected unless there was evidence that the author intended a different > spelling. > In other words if it was a typographical error, the author could correct > it, but if it was a misspelling it could not be changed. > > Is this still true (or was it ever true) and if so how does it apply to > endings that do not agree in gender. > > What's the point in changing a species name everytime someone revises at > the genus level. MIKE GOCHFELD > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Mon Apr 2 03:58:08 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 03:58:08 -0400 Subject: why caterpillars eat their eggshells References: <4.3.2.7.1.20010401195541.00a96570@b.pop.kiva.net> Message-ID: <004c01c0bb4a$a82a6aa0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> You should probably ignore this post - it is 3:30 a.m. and I am actually asleep and not responsible for anything. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Day" To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:58 PM Subject: Re: why caterpillars eat their eggshells >....But in either case, the eater risks getting a disease, so >maybe that's why they don't do these things. > Liz Day > I know I should just keep out of this. But. My only objection is when thought gets expressed in an anthropomorphic manner. "...the eater risks getting a disease, so maybe that's why they don't do these things." This again, necessitates pretty deep intellectual thought. e.g. "Humm, I _risk_ getting sick if I eat this. I better not eat this for lunch today." or "Momma told me to never eat frass no matter how edible it looks." - Sorry, the sentence says that because of - risk - they may not do... The eater - risks. I surely know that Liz is not purporting that the larvae "think" about this. And it is surely true that it is a _fact_ that eating certain things mentioned here could likely lead to sickness and death. But they don't know this one bit. They don't know anything. Evolution and/or God have produced/programmed all kinds of stimuli reactions into living things (including humans) to affect some end (esp. survival), but it is a reflex - period. Now, we can still find out the stimuli and the benefit, or detriment. I just get tired of people talking about mommy Monarch and here family. I guess the real reason the Monarchs all go to Mexico is for the family reunion. Hey, why not? I just wish they would wise up and take the bus. Oh, boy. Ron digs another hole. What an idiot. What evolutionary stimuli can I blame for me? What mishap of nature occurred to the female that birthed me and dropped me on the floor? Surely on my head. Don't I know the risk! I must find consolation. Shall I visit my confined gold fish in the glass - or the wild Blue Gills outside in their pond? Better yet I'll open the cabinets of my lepidoptera morgue and breath deep the paradichlorobenzene fumes while I listen to the sound of their silence. Ah, the goal of life - death. The man, the mouse, the louse. In the dust we are all one. Only then is there no risk. The ultimate lurker, silent in the dust. Safe, but dead. Pause. Long pause. I awaken. No, I am not an idiot. I am just alive. A participant. Life is not safe - get used to it. There will be time enough for safety all too soon. An unwilling contribution to population stability. > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jaakko.kullberg at helsinki.fi Mon Apr 2 03:23:20 2001 From: jaakko.kullberg at helsinki.fi (Jaakko Kullberg) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 10:23:20 +0300 Subject: Finland in June References: <99vkcd$vu4$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, <20010331103329.08933.00001874@ng-mo1.aol.com> Message-ID: <9a99d4$3do$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> "Rchees6057" wrote in message news:20010331103329.08933.00001874 at ng-mo1.aol.com... > An old story, almost certainly apocryphal: > > An English lepidopterist, collecting moths in Finland, became so annoyed and > frustrated with the vast swarms of flies buzzing round his head that he made a > great sweep with his net, bottled up everything he had caught and sent the > catch to the British Museum for identification. > He was later informed that he had seven species new to science! > > (End of story) > > You don't have to believe the story; just be prepared for the flies! > Hi! "a great sweep" means what? Old story = 200 years ago? Flies are not rare in Finland, but I suppose that mosquitos may be more problematic especially in the north where all fancy bog and arctic species fly. With "a great sweep" you can collect millions of them, but you may do it easier and just to keep door open and collect a nice catch of females on windows (with all the blood you had). There may be even seven species of them ... For an English butterfly and moth collector Finland is an exotic country. Many eastern "rarities" are common aswell as bog and arctic species. If you look national lists or European list you see quite strange species in the list. As finns are eager to collect with light traps are many long-distance migrants and rare vagrants from the east are regularly trapped. So, the Finnish list is often very promising comparing to that what is really possible to find. Collecting with net is ok everywhere except in normal conservation areas, protected species are listed from internet pages via yahoo etc. jaska ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From John.Snyder at furman.edu Mon Apr 2 08:00:54 2001 From: John.Snyder at furman.edu (John.Snyder at furman.edu) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 08:00:54 -0400 Subject: Holland's Butterfly Book Message-ID: This is a self-published book of about 50 pages, written in 1994 by Joel M. Johnson. His address is: 59 East 400 North Payson, UT 84651 You could find his phone number by entering this information into a web-based facility that does such things. Last summer he said he still has a few left. I can't remember his asking price, but I believe it was $15 or less. I am using it in developing my on-line database showing which "major" books show the various North American moth species (at http://www.furman.edu/~snyder/imagelist/ ). John Snyder Furman University >>>>I've heard a rumour that somewhere there is a list that gives the proper current taxonomic names of all the moth species that Holland lists. Does anyone know where I could find a copy? ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Niklas.Wahlberg at zoologi.su.se Mon Apr 2 08:18:50 2001 From: Niklas.Wahlberg at zoologi.su.se (Niklas Wahlberg) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:18:50 +0200 Subject: Propagation of typos In-Reply-To: <004901c0bb40$719a1bc0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> References: <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3AC757CE.71DA8DC2@sympatico.ca> <1010402105302.ZM3630@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010402135318.00b7de98@mail.it.su.se> Hi, Thanks, Ron, for the vote of confidence! This thread brings up something that is pertinent to one my current projects. What is the gender of Phyciodes (asks one who has had no training in Latin...)? If it is male, then what should the species names be for the following species: Phyciodes cocyta Phyciodes pulchella Phyciodes picta Phyciodes vesta Phyciodes pallida Phyciodes mylitta Should they all actually end in -us? All are the original spelling (described under the genera Papilio or Melitaea). Cheers, Niklas At 02:45 2001.04.02 -0400, Ron Gatrelle wrote: >Personally, I agree with James Scott that gender matching is not too >important or even impossible. (A female genus with a franki male species >for example.) I favor sticking with the original spelling method just >because of the _many_ potential genus changes over the centuries Mike >mentions below. But I will not do so until the ICZN changes the rule. >Without rule we have scientific anarchy - which can only lead to dumbed >down science. > > >Back to the matter of changing genus names. When a researcher publishes a >new genus - or generic alignment - none of us "have" to use it. But - I >think a specialist should be given a lot of professional respect - >especially by popular book authors who are not expert in that particular >area - and use the new combinations. A good current example is the genetic >based generic work by Dr. Wahlberg on the Melitaeini. > >Ron > > Niklas Wahlberg Department of Zoology Stockholm University S-106 91 Stockholm SWEDEN Phone: +46 8 164047 Fax: +46 8 167715 http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/ihp/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From viceroy at gate.net Mon Apr 2 08:08:11 2001 From: viceroy at gate.net (Anne Kilmer) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 08:08:11 -0400 Subject: why caterpillars eat their eggshells References: <4.3.2.7.1.20010401195541.00a96570@b.pop.kiva.net> <004c01c0bb4a$a82a6aa0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <3AC86BAB.775B7261@gate.net> The fairies tell the caterpillars what to eat, Ron. Can we give this a rest? Teleology is not the worst of the anti-scientific positions, and it is a relatively harmless logical shortcut. Caterpillars are programmed by what works, just as computers are programmed by what works. A difference is that we know who programs the computers, and we still don't know a lot about how the bugs are programmed. Can we, when discussing a question, perhaps rephrase it to avoid teleological minepits rather than belaboring people who reply to the question as couched? What the original poster (now huddling in a closet and crying, and in such nice weather, too) wanted to know was whether eating the eggshells confers any benefits on caterpillars, and, if so, what benefits. One hopes that "Why" is a question peculiar to man, and that the cows in Great Britain, for instance, are not currently wondering about the odors of blood and burning in the air. One hopes that the butterfly in the grip of the dragonfly is not wondering "why". We have supposed, grandly, for a good many years, that we alone dread death, understand and are capable of suffering, and can plan for the future. Everybody else is traveling on automatic, and we are God's, Nature's or the Universe's special choice. (Probably because we have sinned, but never mind that.) Now, with great apes that can mourn a dead kitten and ask about it ... seeing the films of elephants visiting the bones of their dead ... we find ourselves extending the mantle of thought farther down the food chain. Bees? Do bees (as a hive mind) think and plan? Romantically, we'd like to think so, or we'd like to think not. But that is not the point at issue. You are not going to teach Liz your style of philosophy, at 3:30 am or any other time of day. She, and the rest of us, would be happy to learn what you know about butterfly eggshells, however, if you happen to actually know anything. Now that it's Monday and the scientists are back at work, perhaps one of them will direct us to an accessible reference or give us an intelligible explanation. Me, I'm going back to bed with a hot water bottle. Sheesh Anne Kilmer South Florida Ron Gatrelle wrote: You should probably ignore this post - it is 3:30 a.m. and I am actually asleep and not responsible for anything. > >....But in either case, the eater risks getting a disease, so > >maybe that's why they don't do these things. > > Liz Day > > > > I know I should just keep out of this. But. My only objection is when > thought gets expressed in an anthropomorphic manner. "...the eater risks > getting a disease, so maybe that's why they don't do these things." This > again, necessitates pretty deep intellectual thought. e.g. "Humm, I _risk_ > getting sick if I eat this. I better not eat this for lunch today." or > "Momma told me to never eat frass no matter how edible it looks." - Sorry, > the sentence says that because of - risk - they may not do... The eater - > risks. > > I surely know that Liz is not purporting that the larvae "think" about > this. > And it is surely true that it is a _fact_ that eating certain things > mentioned here could likely lead to sickness and death. But they don't know > this one bit. They don't know anything. Evolution and/or God have > produced/programmed all kinds of stimuli reactions into living things > (including humans) to affect some end (esp. survival), but it is a reflex - > period. Now, we can still find out the stimuli and the benefit, or > detriment. I just get tired of people talking about mommy Monarch and here > family. I guess the real reason the Monarchs all go to Mexico is for the > family reunion. Hey, why not? I just wish they would wise up and take the > bus. Oh, boy. snip > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From monarchsforever at msn.com Mon Apr 2 10:07:58 2001 From: monarchsforever at msn.com (monarchsforever) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:07:58 -0700 Subject: Aticus atlas Message-ID: <008b01c0bb7e$539f5c00$61390b3f@74nx4> I have an extra 2000 Atlas coming out of a breeding sit in China. If anybody who has a permit wants a deal ( a real deal) drop me a line. Thank you, David Bohlken 651-228-0180 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010402/9447a493/attachment.html From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Mon Apr 2 23:46:55 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 23:46:55 -0400 Subject: multicaudata ( try IV ) References: <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3AC757CE.71DA8DC2@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3AC947AF.6279F74F@eohsi.rutgers.edu> DON WROTE: "Moth works have for the most part continued to follow the ICZN rules but many of us would find it easier to use original spellings but think that the rules provide stability and breaking them does not." It's not clear to me that changing the ending of a species name everytime you change the generic gender "provides stability". It makes it seem that spelling doesn't matter. (Maybe that's why we have common names). On the other hand, it's not likely that anyone has been confused about which taxon was being referred to regardless of the spelling. In writing a faunal work (NJ) We worried much more about whether or not to accept the latest generic revisions (for example of Hairstreaks), and never thought much about declensions. Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Mon Apr 2 11:48:49 2001 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 08:48:49 -0700 Subject: South Texas Larval ID Request Message-ID: >http://mar2k1.homestead.com/mar27.html Jim Tuttle's best guess is an Agaristine noctuid. Others I've shown it to are stumped. Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon Apr 2 11:54:10 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 10:54:10 -0500 Subject: Phyciodes - Re: Propagation of typos In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010402135318.00b7de98@mail.it.su.se> References: <004901c0bb40$719a1bc0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3AC757CE.71DA8DC2@sympatico.ca> <1010402105302.ZM3630@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010402091621.00b338e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> First, I am not a classics scholar. I can only look up. Phyciodes = possibly the rouged one? This might or might not be of feminine gender. Possibly from Greek phykos = sea-weed or rouge (made from sea-weed), gender neuter. The proposer of the name, Huebner will have indicated his determination of the gender of the name in 1819 (Verz. bekannt. Schmett., (2): 29). I do not have ready access to this publication so I do not know the original ending of the included species. Scudder fixed the type species as *Papilio cocyta* Cramer in 1872 (4th Ann. Rept. Peabody Acad. Sci. for 1871: 46. Cocytus (m) = The River of Wailing, one of the rivers of hell. *Papilio* (m) = butterfly. Why Cramer used *cocyta* rather than *cocytus* I do not know. *Phyciodes cocyta* is currently considered a subjective synonym of *Phyciodes tharos*. People who described new taxa in *Phyciodes* used the following: *Phyciodes boucardi* Godman & Salvin, 1878. (of Boucard (m)) . *Phyciodes hiemalis* Edwards, 1878. (wintery/stormy, gender agreement with *P.* is m). *Phyciodes aestiva* Edwards, 1878. (relating to summer, gender agreement with *P.* is f.) *Phyciodes nox* Gunder, 1928. (night (f.), a noun in apposition not required to agree). *Phyciodes thornei* Gunder, 1934. (of Thorn (m)). *Phyciodes arctica* dos Passos, 1935. (relating to the north, gender agreement with *P* is f) *Phyciodes packardii* Saunders, 1869. (of Packard (m)). *Phyciodes reaghi* Reiff, 1913. (of Reagh (m)). *Phyciodes dyari* Gunder, 1928. (of Dyar (m)). *Phyciodes distincta* Bauer, 1975. (separated/distinct, gender agreement with *P* is f). *Phyciodes pascoensis* Wright, 1905. (from the place of cattle feeding). *Phyciodes mcdunnoughi* Gunder, 1928 (of McDunnough (m)). *Phyciodes camillus* Edwards, 1871. (proper name = savior of one's country - noun in apposition). *Phyciodes emissa* Edwards, 1871. (sent out, gender agreement with *P.* is f). *Phyciodes rohweri* Cockerell, 1913. (of Rohwer (m)). *Phyciodes tristis* Cockerell, 1913. (melancholy, gender agreement with *P.* is m). *Phyciodes jemezensis* Brehme, 1913. (of the place of Jemez (Springs)). *Phyciodes canace* Edwards, 1871. (daughter of Aeolus, proper noun in apposition). *Phyciodes orseis* Edwards, 1871. (?a commencement, noun in apposition). *Phyciodes edwardsi* Gunder, 1927. (of Edwards (m)). *Phyciodes herlani* Bauer, 1975. (of Herlan (m)). *Phyciodes barnesi* Skinner, 1897. (of Barnes (m)). *Phyciodes collinsi* Gunder, 1930. (of Collins (m)). *Phyciodes macyi* Fender, 1930. (of Macy (m)). *Phyciodes arizonensis* Bauer, 1975. (of the place of Arizona). *Phyciodes thebais* Godman & Salvin, 1878. (belonging to Thebes (Egypt/Boeotia) f). 12 are named after people and are required to take the gender of the person rather than the genus. 4 are named as nouns in apposition and take the gender of the noun. 2 are adjectives assuming the genus to be masculine (Edwards, Cockerell) 5 are adjectives assuming the genus to be feminine (Edwards, dos Passos, Bauer, Godman & Salvin. 3 are "from the place of" and take the gender of the place. Not knowing what Huebner had in mind, I would follow Edwards, dos Passos, Bauer, Godman & Salvin in identifying *Phyciodes* as feminine. ................Chris Durden At 02:18 PM 4/2/2001 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, > Thanks, Ron, for the vote of confidence! This thread brings up > something that is pertinent to one my current projects. What is the > gender of Phyciodes (asks one who has had no training in Latin...)? If it > is male, then what should the species names be for the following species: >Phyciodes cocyta >Phyciodes pulchella >Phyciodes picta >Phyciodes vesta >Phyciodes pallida >Phyciodes mylitta > >Should they all actually end in -us? All are the original spelling >(described under the genera Papilio or Melitaea). > >Cheers, >Niklas ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Mon Apr 2 12:15:05 2001 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:15:05 -0700 Subject: multicaudata ( try IV ) Message-ID: Michael Gochfeld wrote: >On the other hand, it's not likely that anyone has been confused >about which taxon was being referred to regardless of the spelling. Then you've never tried to use a database of species names. There aren't many pieces of software that, when asked to find "multicaudata" will inform you that it's spelled "multicaudatus" in the database and give you the correct record. It will simply inform you that the name is not in the database. THAT is confusing. For those of us concerned with automated taxonomic information retrieval systems, alterations in species epithets are MASSIVE obstructions to efficiency. Using the original spelling in perpetuity is by far a better system - from this perspective. Apparently the only cataloguer who felt this way was Poole, who lists only original spellings in the Nomina Insecta Nearctica (and this is, of course, confusing). Peace, Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon Apr 2 12:59:27 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 11:59:27 -0500 Subject: multicaudata ( try IV ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010402115546.00b29360@pop3.norton.antivirus> There is a simple solution to this problem. Assume multiple endings and search only for *multicaud*. I do this as a matter of course, at no inconvenience. I know taxonomy is a faithful old dog, but don't let the machine wag the dog! Chop the ending - use the root, for a search. ................Chris Durden At 09:15 AM 4/2/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Michael Gochfeld wrote: > > >On the other hand, it's not likely that anyone has been confused > >about which taxon was being referred to regardless of the spelling. > >Then you've never tried to use a database of species names. There aren't >many pieces of software that, when asked to find "multicaudata" will inform >you that it's spelled "multicaudatus" in the database and give you the >correct record. It will simply inform you that the name is not in the >database. THAT is confusing. For those of us concerned with automated >taxonomic information retrieval systems, alterations in species epithets >are MASSIVE obstructions to efficiency. Using the original spelling in >perpetuity is by far a better system - from this perspective. Apparently >the only cataloguer who felt this way was Poole, who lists only original >spellings in the Nomina Insecta Nearctica (and this is, of course, >confusing). > >Peace, > > >Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum >Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 >phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) > http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html > "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness > is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Mon Apr 2 14:56:12 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:56:12 -0400 Subject: Phyciodes - Re: Propagation of typos References: <004901c0bb40$719a1bc0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3AC757CE.71DA8DC2@sympatico.ca> <1010402105302.ZM3630@Gochfeld> <4.3.2.7.2.20010402091621.00b338e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <003301c0bba6$96ac1880$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Chris beat me to it - but my question is if it is neuter. I have not yet had the opportunity to check that out. My understanding of neuter by the code is not that it is _neither_ male or female but _either_ male or female. I am no Latin guy, I just drive myself crazy reading and rereading the code which is a law book not a biological book. The following is excellent. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris J. Durden" To: Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:54 AM Subject: Phyciodes - Re: Propagation of typos > First, I am not a classics scholar. I can only look up. > Phyciodes = possibly the rouged one? This might or might not be of > feminine gender. > Possibly from Greek phykos = sea-weed or rouge (made from sea-weed), gender > neuter. > > The proposer of the name, Huebner will have indicated his determination of > the gender of the name in 1819 (Verz. bekannt. Schmett., (2): 29). I do not > have ready access to this publication so I do not know the original ending > of the included species. > Scudder fixed the type species as *Papilio cocyta* Cramer in 1872 (4th > Ann. Rept. Peabody Acad. Sci. for 1871: 46. Cocytus (m) = The River of > Wailing, one of the rivers of hell. *Papilio* (m) = butterfly. Why Cramer > used *cocyta* rather than *cocytus* I do not know. *Phyciodes cocyta* is > currently considered a subjective synonym of *Phyciodes tharos*. > People who described new taxa in *Phyciodes* used the following: > *Phyciodes boucardi* Godman & Salvin, 1878. (of Boucard (m)) . > *Phyciodes hiemalis* Edwards, 1878. (wintery/stormy, gender agreement with > *P.* is m). > *Phyciodes aestiva* Edwards, 1878. (relating to summer, gender agreement > with *P.* is f.) > *Phyciodes nox* Gunder, 1928. (night (f.), a noun in apposition not > required to agree). > *Phyciodes thornei* Gunder, 1934. (of Thorn (m)). > *Phyciodes arctica* dos Passos, 1935. (relating to the north, gender > agreement with *P* is f) > *Phyciodes packardii* Saunders, 1869. (of Packard (m)). > *Phyciodes reaghi* Reiff, 1913. (of Reagh (m)). > *Phyciodes dyari* Gunder, 1928. (of Dyar (m)). > *Phyciodes distincta* Bauer, 1975. (separated/distinct, gender agreement > with *P* is f). > *Phyciodes pascoensis* Wright, 1905. (from the place of cattle feeding). > *Phyciodes mcdunnoughi* Gunder, 1928 (of McDunnough (m)). > *Phyciodes camillus* Edwards, 1871. (proper name = savior of one's country > - noun in apposition). > *Phyciodes emissa* Edwards, 1871. (sent out, gender agreement with *P.* is f). > *Phyciodes rohweri* Cockerell, 1913. (of Rohwer (m)). > *Phyciodes tristis* Cockerell, 1913. (melancholy, gender agreement with > *P.* is m). > *Phyciodes jemezensis* Brehme, 1913. (of the place of Jemez (Springs)). > *Phyciodes canace* Edwards, 1871. (daughter of Aeolus, proper noun in > apposition). > *Phyciodes orseis* Edwards, 1871. (?a commencement, noun in apposition). > *Phyciodes edwardsi* Gunder, 1927. (of Edwards (m)). > *Phyciodes herlani* Bauer, 1975. (of Herlan (m)). > *Phyciodes barnesi* Skinner, 1897. (of Barnes (m)). > *Phyciodes collinsi* Gunder, 1930. (of Collins (m)). > *Phyciodes macyi* Fender, 1930. (of Macy (m)). > *Phyciodes arizonensis* Bauer, 1975. (of the place of Arizona). > *Phyciodes thebais* Godman & Salvin, 1878. (belonging to Thebes > (Egypt/Boeotia) f). > > 12 are named after people and are required to take the gender of the person > rather than the genus. > 4 are named as nouns in apposition and take the gender of the noun. > 2 are adjectives assuming the genus to be masculine (Edwards, Cockerell) > 5 are adjectives assuming the genus to be feminine (Edwards, dos Passos, > Bauer, Godman & Salvin. > 3 are "from the place of" and take the gender of the place. > > Not knowing what Huebner had in mind, I would follow Edwards, dos > Passos, Bauer, Godman & Salvin in identifying *Phyciodes* as feminine. > ................Chris Durden > > > > > At 02:18 PM 4/2/2001 +0200, you wrote: > >Hi, > > Thanks, Ron, for the vote of confidence! This thread brings up > > something that is pertinent to one my current projects. What is the > > gender of Phyciodes (asks one who has had no training in Latin...)? If it > > is male, then what should the species names be for the following species: > >Phyciodes cocyta > >Phyciodes pulchella > >Phyciodes picta > >Phyciodes vesta > >Phyciodes pallida > >Phyciodes mylitta > > > >Should they all actually end in -us? All are the original spelling > >(described under the genera Papilio or Melitaea). > > > >Cheers, > >Niklas > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Citheronia at aol.com Mon Apr 2 23:07:55 2001 From: Citheronia at aol.com (Citheronia at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 23:07:55 EDT Subject: Curiosities of Biological Taxonomy Message-ID: Hello all! A few minutes ago I came across a site that might interest many of you. It shows MANY curious scientific names of various creatures. Take a look: Curiosities of Biological Taxonomy Randy Lyttle Hannibal, NY Citheronia at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010402/7bd6bb15/attachment.html From Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us Tue Apr 3 13:39:17 2001 From: Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us (Mike Quinn) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 12:39:17 -0500 Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" Message-ID: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD19675@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Hope everyone caught Peigler's article in the latest issue of the "News of the Lep. Soc." Peigler (2001) draws our attention to Boettner, et al. (2000) who squarely lay the blame for the virtual disappearance of the Cecropia and Promethea silk moths from New England on "an especially virulent parasitic fly named Compsilura concinnata in the fly family Tachinidae." The parasitoid was introduced as a biological control agent against the gypsy moth. According to Milius (2000), "this fly has a known host range of almost 200 species, and it would not be approved for introduction under U.S.D.A. guidelines and standards today." Michael Collins is cited as pointing out that "one reason this insect is so successful biologically is that is escapes hyperparasitism by killing its hosts quickly." Peigler says he "found published records of it parasitizing many nontarget hosts in North America, including species in the Papilionidae, Nymphalidae, Hesperiidae, Sphingidae," and the following additional silk moths: Luna, Io, and Polyphemus. Peigler notes that this parasitoid is now found in California as well... Peigler, R. S. 2001. "We now know what happened to our biggest Moths." News of the Lep. Soc. 43(1): 30-31. Boettner, G. H., J. s. Elkinton & C. J. Boettner. 2000. Effects of a biological control introduction on three nontarget native species of saturniid moths. Conservation Biology 14(6): 1798-1806. Milius, S. 2000. Fly may be depleting U.S. giant silk moths. Science 158: 359. ========================================================= This best paper to get a copy of is Boettner's. According to Boettner, et al. (2000), *Compsilura concinnata* was repeatedly introduced into North America from 1906 until 1986, "and has been recorded killing over 180 different species of native Lepidoptera, Coleoptera, and Symphyta in North America." The authors monitored 500 Cecropia larvae in Massachusetts and found that none survived beyond the fifth instar. They simultaneously deployed cohorts (n=100 per cohort) of the first three instars of Cecropia larvae. C. concinnata was responsible for 81% of Cecropia mortality. From beebuzz at kiva.net Tue Apr 3 15:20:34 2001 From: beebuzz at kiva.net (Liz Day) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 14:20:34 -0500 Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" In-Reply-To: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD19675@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state .tx.us> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010403140935.00a9fbd0@b.pop.kiva.net> >Boettner, et al. (2000)...blame the virtual disappearance of....silk moths from New England on [the] parasitic fly...Compsilura concinnata...introduced as a biological control agent against the gypsy moth. If any lep rearers in Indiana or adjacent states have encountered Compsilura, I gather that the state entomologist at the DNR here in Indianapolis would like to know of this. It was released in the state of Indiana, back when it was released elsewhere, but whether it is now present in the state is unknown. Since the gypsy moths are about to arrive here, and might bring it with them, it would be valuable for monitoring purposes to know whether it's already here or not. It was suggested to many students around the state that they rear leps this summer and look for Compsilura, but no one was interested. So if anyone out there knows more about its range in this area, don't keep it under your hat. Regards, Liz --------------------------- Liz Day 3221 Merrick Ln. Indianapolis IN 46222 central USA 317-924-0008 daylight at kiva.net www.kiva.net/~daylight ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnjjk1 at aurora.uaf.edu Tue Apr 3 15:59:21 2001 From: fnjjk1 at aurora.uaf.edu (James J Kruse) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:59:21 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20010403140935.00a9fbd0@b.pop.kiva.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Liz Day wrote: > in the state (IN) is unknown. Since the gypsy moths are about to > arrive here, and might bring it with them....(snip) I have been out of the gypsy moth loop for a while, but if I remember right, Compsilura coccinata "surfs the wave" about 100 miles or more ahead of the gypsy moth front. Gypsy moth is at least partially established in Wisconsin (I don't know if it is officially admitted as this admission includes plant material export quarantine politics and associated costs to the state) but gypsy moth has been in Michigan for a while now. I'd be willing to venture a guess that both gypsy moth and C. coccinata are in Indiana. Regards, James J. Kruse, Ph.D. Curator of Entomology University of Alaska Museum 907 Yukon Drive, PO Box 756960 Fairbanks, AK USA 99775-6960 Phone: 907.474.5579 Fax: 907.474.1987/5469 http://myprofile.cos.com/bugskinner http://www.uaf.edu/museum/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us Tue Apr 3 16:01:31 2001 From: Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us (Mike Quinn) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:01:31 -0500 Subject: "Silk Moth Deaths..." Science Magazine Message-ID: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD1968B@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Science Magazine ECOLOGY: Silk Moth Deaths Show Perils of Biocontrol http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/290/5500/2230b Volume 290, Number 5500, Issue of 22 Dec 2000, pp. 2230-2231. Copyright ? 2000 by The American Association for the Advancement of Science. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Quinn Invertebrate Biologist Wildlife Diversity Branch Texas Parks & Wildlife Austin, TX Ph: 512/912-7059 mike.quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnjjk1 at aurora.uaf.edu Tue Apr 3 16:32:05 2001 From: fnjjk1 at aurora.uaf.edu (James J Kruse) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 12:32:05 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Phyciodes (names) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010402091621.00b338e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Chris J. Durden wrote: > 12 are named after people and are required to take the gender of the person > rather than the genus. Okay, the following is probably more suited to TAXACOM, but here is an example to chew on. I have tried to lay it out as clearly as possible: Point 1. Archips is a neuter generic name, as far as I can find out. Some influential, recent monograph and check-list authors have taken the masculine ending to all species names apparently thinking that Archips is masculine, but most of the species authors used a feminine ending in their descriptions. Point 2. Most Tortricid workers have a tradition of ending species names with -ana or -anus (similar to workers in other groups, ex. -ella). -ana/-anus means simply "essence of" or the "quality of". Point 3. I named a new species after Rich Goyer, a male, and from what I hear now, changes the specific name to masculine. Okay, considering the three points above... I named a new species Archips goyerana. Point 1 is satisfied as Archips is neuter to the best of my knowledge (but see point 3). Point 2 is satisfied to the extent of point 1. Point 3, I reasoned, was sacrificed for the following reasons: Reason A. The species all have an -ana suffix already (except in some recent monographic and check-list literature). Reason B. Adding the suffix -ana or -anus renders the patronym non-sensical even though it was intended as a patronym (quality of Goyer, or essence of Goyer). Reason C. I was attempting to honor Dr. Goyer with this patronym, and naming it Goyer-anus did not accomplish that in my opinion and had me dreading common name suggestions later (more akin to a bad pun along the same lines as dyaria/dyarea - which I think is legend as that name does not appear to exist anywhere). This is why I don't care much for patronyms, but it was well deserved in this case (15+ years of related research dedicated to this critter). Thoughts appreciated, although the name is published now. Oh, and the common name is firmly established by the Entomological Society of America as the Baldcypress Leafroller, which is good if someone decides to change the ending and then has to think of a common name. Regards, James J. Kruse, Ph.D. Curator of Entomology University of Alaska Museum 907 Yukon Drive, PO Box 756960 Fairbanks, AK USA 99775-6960 Phone: 907.474.5579 Fax: 907.474.1987/5469 http://myprofile.cos.com/bugskinner http://www.uaf.edu/museum/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Tue Apr 3 16:43:43 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:43:43 -0400 Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" References: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD19675@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Message-ID: <001801c0bc7e$c6684fc0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> All. This is some great information (though VERY dismaying). It should once and for all get moth collectors off the hook for being suspected by some as the fault. I will also here state that if 300 years from now 80% of all American leps have become extinct due to this exotic - that the extinction had no relativity to human over population - just human irresponsibility (introduction of both the Gypsy Moth and the fly). No, I don't see the number of humans as the paramount problem - it is the humans in that number who as individuals or small groups are able to wreck such massive havoc - morally, politically, economically, and environmentally. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Quinn" To: "Leps-L (E-mail)" Cc: "Entomo-L (E-mail)" ; Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 1:39 PM Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" > Hope everyone caught Peigler's article in the latest issue of the "News of > the Lep. Soc." > > Peigler (2001) draws our attention to Boettner, et al. (2000) who squarely > lay the blame for the virtual disappearance of the Cecropia and Promethea > silk moths from New England on "an especially virulent parasitic fly named > Compsilura concinnata in the fly family Tachinidae." The parasitoid was > introduced as a biological control agent against the gypsy moth. According > to Milius (2000), "this fly has a known host range of almost 200 species, > and it would not be approved for introduction under U.S.D.A. guidelines and > standards today." Michael Collins is cited as pointing out that "one reason > this insect is so successful biologically is that is escapes hyperparasitism > by killing its hosts quickly." Peigler says he "found published records of > it parasitizing many nontarget hosts in North America, including species in > the Papilionidae, Nymphalidae, Hesperiidae, Sphingidae," and the following > additional silk moths: Luna, Io, and Polyphemus. Peigler notes that this > parasitoid is now found in California as well... > > Peigler, R. S. 2001. "We now know what happened to our biggest Moths." News > of the Lep. Soc. 43(1): 30-31. > > Boettner, G. H., J. s. Elkinton & C. J. Boettner. 2000. Effects of a > biological control introduction on three nontarget native species of > saturniid moths. Conservation Biology 14(6): 1798-1806. > > Milius, S. 2000. Fly may be depleting U.S. giant silk moths. Science 158: > 359. > > ========================================================= > > This best paper to get a copy of is Boettner's. > > According to Boettner, et al. (2000), *Compsilura concinnata* was repeatedly > introduced into North America from 1906 until 1986, "and has been recorded > killing over 180 different species of native Lepidoptera, Coleoptera, and > Symphyta in North America." > > The authors monitored 500 Cecropia larvae in Massachusetts and found that > none survived beyond the fifth instar. > > They simultaneously deployed cohorts (n=100 per cohort) of the first three > instars of Cecropia larvae. C. concinnata was responsible for 81% of > Cecropia mortality. > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Tue Apr 3 16:54:53 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:54:53 -0400 Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" References: <4.3.2.7.1.20010403140935.00a9fbd0@b.pop.kiva.net> Message-ID: <002201c0bc80$55d91620$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Perhaps Paul could point us to some goooood pesticides to - (everyone sing along) kill the fly, that killed the worm, that killed the butteryfly, that sat on the milkweed under the corn, at the bottom of the food chain. Paul. Be patient grasshopper, your time will come. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Day" To: Cc: "Entomo-L (E-mail)" Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 3:20 PM Subject: Re: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" > >Boettner, et al. (2000)...blame the virtual disappearance of....silk > moths from New England on [the] parasitic fly...Compsilura > concinnata...introduced as a biological control agent against the gypsy moth. > > If any lep rearers in Indiana or adjacent states have encountered > Compsilura, I gather that the state entomologist at the DNR here in > Indianapolis would like to know of this. It was released in the state of > Indiana, back when it was released elsewhere, but whether it is now present > in the state is unknown. Since the gypsy moths are about to arrive here, > and might bring it with them, it would be valuable for monitoring purposes > to know whether it's already here or not. It was suggested to many > students around the state that they rear leps this summer and look for > Compsilura, but no one was interested. So if anyone out there knows more > about its range in this area, don't keep it under your hat. > > Regards, > Liz > > --------------------------- > Liz Day > 3221 Merrick Ln. > Indianapolis IN 46222 central USA > 317-924-0008 > daylight at kiva.net > www.kiva.net/~daylight > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From viceroy at gate.net Tue Apr 3 17:47:29 2001 From: viceroy at gate.net (Anne Kilmer) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 17:47:29 -0400 Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" References: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD19675@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> <001801c0bc7e$c6684fc0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <3ACA44F1.293141C@gate.net> So ... the solution is going to be people catching moths, rearing them in fly-free environment and releasing where the flies don't exist? Fat chance. I am sure glad the USDA don't make mistakes no more, for they are releasing biocontrol agents with a lavish hand. I say their new theme song is "The Old Lady that Swallowed a Fly*" which they gather daily in their front hall to sing in chorus, wearing their official T-Shirts ... which say "It seemed like a good idea at a time". Their motto. Anne Kilmer South Florida *Words available on request. Ron Gatrelle wrote: > > All. > This is some great information (though VERY dismaying). It should once and > for all get moth collectors off the hook for being suspected by some as the > fault. I will also here state that if 300 years from now 80% of all > American leps have become extinct due to this exotic - that the extinction > had no relativity to human over population - just human irresponsibility > (introduction of both the Gypsy Moth and the fly). No, I don't see the > number of humans as the paramount problem - it is the humans in that number > who as individuals or small groups are able to wreck such massive havoc - > morally, politically, economically, and environmentally. > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Tue Apr 3 19:42:24 2001 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:42:24 -0700 Subject: Phyciodes (names) Message-ID: James Kruse wrote: >Reason C. I was attempting to honor Dr. Goyer with this patronym, and >naming it Goyer-anus did not accomplish that in my opinion and had me >dreading common name suggestions later (more akin to a bad pun along the >same lines as dyaria/dyarea - which I think is legend as that name does >not appear to exist anywhere). Dyaria Neumoegen, 1893 - Lymantriidae. Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From bmw60 at aol.com Tue Apr 3 19:13:24 2001 From: bmw60 at aol.com (BMW60) Date: 03 Apr 2001 23:13:24 GMT Subject: Arizona field report Message-ID: <20010403191324.17072.00000352@ng-fp1.aol.com> I decided to go down to the Santa Rita mountains and give Box Canyon a look-see for the odd skipper. As I drove down, the wind had already picked up and the sky started to look a little too dark for butterflies. Not to mention the temp was only in the upper 60s at this point. High hopes I didnt have. Even as I approached the wash I spied my first skipper. It turned out to be a pretty fair day. The biggest surprise as I moved down the wash was a beautiful, mint condition, green, Chevy S-10 pick-up, nose down in the sand. Gee, I better check for survivors. Nope, no one home, just some clothes and other odds and ends. I figured I would report it on my way out. When I returned there were three trucks including a tow-truck attempting to get somewhere close to this thing. How it got there I dont know. As it turns out, it was a truck full of illegal aliens fleeing the Border Patrol and took a wrong turn. A REAL wrong turn. Ya just never know what your going to see. Listed below are the species I saw in a 1 mile stretch. Junonia coenia--Buckeye Junonia coenia nigrosuffusa--Black Buckeye Vanessa atlanta--Red Admiral Vanessa virginiensis--American Painted Lady Vanessa cardui--Painted Lady Dymasia chara--Dymas checkerspot Texola elada--Elada Checkerspot Anthanassa texana--Texan Crescent Chlosyne lacinia--Bordered Patch Phyllis Battenor, I really like her--Pipevine Swallowtail Pterourus multicaudatus--Two-Tailed Tiger Swallowtail Anthocharis sara--Sara Orange-Tip Nathalis iole--Dainty Sulpher Colias eurutheme--Alfalfa Butterfly Pontia protodice--Checkered White Eurema mexicananum--Mexican Sulpher Strymon melinus--Gray Hairstreak Mitovra siva--Siva Hairstreak Emesis ares--Ares Metalmark Leptotes marina--Marina Blue Celestrina argiolus cinera--ommon Blue I'm even going to try and list the skippers, so here goes- Copaeodes aurantiacus Celotes nessus Staphylus ceos Tristis tatius Systasea zampa Pyrgius albesens Pyrgus philetas Yea, I guess that didnt hurt as bad as I thought it would. Good hunting all, Bill in Tucson. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Tue Apr 3 21:55:23 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 21:55:23 -0400 Subject: Arizona field report References: <20010403191324.17072.00000352@ng-fp1.aol.com> Message-ID: <005401c0bcaa$50892000$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Bill -- Boy do I wish I was with you on this day!!!!! What a great diversity of terrific species. My only comment is on the J. nigrosuffusa and J. coenia records. I have no reason to believe that this is not 100% accurate. Thus, you have the sympatric occurrence of two species. I am among those who feel that nigrosuffusa may well be a species in its own right. At lest a subspecies of genoveva - or ?. Other comments solicited on this. -- Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "BMW60" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: Arizona field report > I decided to go down to the Santa Rita mountains and give Box Canyon a look-see > for the odd skipper. As I drove down, the wind had already picked up and the > sky started to look a little too dark for butterflies. Not to mention the temp > was only in the upper 60s at this point. High hopes I didnt have. Even as I > approached the wash I spied my first skipper. It turned out to be a pretty > fair day. The biggest surprise as I moved down the wash was a beautiful, mint > condition, green, Chevy S-10 pick-up, nose down in the sand. Gee, I better > check for survivors. Nope, no one home, just some clothes and other odds and > ends. I figured I would report it on my way out. When I returned there were > three trucks including a tow-truck attempting to get somewhere close to this > thing. How it got there I dont know. As it turns out, it was a truck full of > illegal aliens fleeing the Border Patrol and took a wrong turn. A REAL wrong > turn. Ya just never know what your going to see. Listed below are the species > I saw in a 1 mile stretch. > Junonia coenia--Buckeye > Junonia coenia nigrosuffusa--Black Buckeye > Vanessa atlanta--Red Admiral > Vanessa virginiensis--American Painted Lady > Vanessa cardui--Painted Lady > Dymasia chara--Dymas checkerspot > Texola elada--Elada Checkerspot > Anthanassa texana--Texan Crescent > Chlosyne lacinia--Bordered Patch > Phyllis Battenor, I really like her--Pipevine Swallowtail > Pterourus multicaudatus--Two-Tailed Tiger Swallowtail > Anthocharis sara--Sara Orange-Tip > Nathalis iole--Dainty Sulpher > Colias eurutheme--Alfalfa Butterfly > Pontia protodice--Checkered White > Eurema mexicananum--Mexican Sulpher > Strymon melinus--Gray Hairstreak > Mitovra siva--Siva Hairstreak > Emesis ares--Ares Metalmark > Leptotes marina--Marina Blue > Celestrina argiolus cinera--ommon Blue > > I'm even going to try and list the skippers, so here goes- > > Copaeodes aurantiacus > Celotes nessus > Staphylus ceos > Tristis tatius > Systasea zampa > Pyrgius albesens > Pyrgus philetas > Yea, I guess that didnt hurt as bad as I thought it would. Good hunting all, > Bill in Tucson. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Tue Apr 3 22:06:46 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 19:06:46 -0700 Subject: multicaudata ( try IV ) References: <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <3ACA81B6.DA58D1D9@extremezone.com> What in interesting and lively systematic and taxonomic discussion this is. However, the PhyloCoder's are very ambitious and are gaining significant support. They could very well succeed in replacing the Linnaean system with the Phylocode system. The unfortunate fallout would be that these discussions would become obsolete. Check out www.ohio.edu/phylocode. I am, in a sense, playing the devil's advocate, but it appears the PhyloCode system could be something to reckon with. Stan Ron Gatrelle wrote: > > First part of this transmission can be foung in part I. Part of the second > part in Brodkin's reply. Now (hopefully) to what has not yet made it > through to Leps L. > > ...Next, in the above, only popular (informal or semi-scientific) > literature was cited. There is no mention of the most recent lists (dos > Passos, Miller/Brown /Ferris, or MONA) - which are the latest in a long > line of American taxonomic lists which have been (and ARE) The Standards. > There is no mention of the latest scientific literature dealing with > the taxonomy of multicaudata (us). That being, the 100% scientific > publication: Systematics of Western North American Butterflies, Thomas C. > Emmel editor. I will come back to this later. > What we are after here is not "just" an understanding of Latin gender > suffixes. We are after the correct spelling of a butterfly's "name" > (scientific identity) according to the latest rules of the International > Commission on Zoological Nomenclature. In other words, what is the correct > latinization under the rules of the ICZN. > So here is the deal. Kirby (1844) described it as -a. Dos Passos (1964) > listed it as -a. Miler/Brown list it as -a. When under the genus Papilio, > by the rules of the ICZN, the name should be multicaudata - with an -a. > Next, we have the genus Pterourus, which some only see as a subgenus. > Ferris (correctly) amended the spelling to multicaudatus to comply with the > spelling under the genus Pterourus. > Bottom line. With Papilio it is multicaudata, But with Pterourus AND > with Papilio (Pterourus) it is multicaudatus. Now, Opler's use of both is > just a publication error. Scott is technically correct. I don't have > Tilden/Smith - if they use -us under Pterourus they are correct - if they > use -us under Papilio they are incorrect ( I don't have their book). Some > other references. In Btflys of Can. it is incorrect as the genus is Papilio > and the spelling is -us. Same for the new Btflys of BC Can - Papilio is the > genus and multicaudatus (should be -a). Most amazingly is the use by Emmel > and Austin in W. Systematics. There they describe two new subspecies under > Papilio multicaudatus - they are, grandiosus and pusillus. Two new > erroneous -us endings. (Can I here amend this to the correct spellings? No > the code does not allow internet science.) > REPHRASE. The spelling was amended by Ferris (correctly) to fit > Pterourus. Those who are using multicaudatus are NOT following Ferris (or > the rules) if they are also not using the corresponding genus that (by the > code) necessitates the -us spelling. NOW, if there is some rule I am > unaware of that even though "Papilio" is used yet somehow Pterourus is > understood - then I guess it is OK to use multicaudatus with Papilio. > > Ron > > PS. Scientific names are about a whole lot more than Latin (and Greek). > They are about technical taxonomic delimitations of observable evolutionary > developments. Common names aren't about anything other than what makes > amateurs - in their country's language - feel good. (Please note that I do > fairly frequently use (and "like") common names - I just know their place. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Wed Apr 4 00:50:48 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 00:50:48 -0400 Subject: Polycode editorial Message-ID: <007601c0bcc2$d1c06c60$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> The great beauty of the Linnaean system as regulated under the ICZN, is its great freedom for scientific expression (argument and disagreement) within some very strict rules. For centuries, a great part of the taxonomic record has been the product of non-professional non-PhD researchers. The drafted phylocode will end that. A cursory reading of the draft phylocode at www.ohio.edu/phylocode reveals a system totally under the control of an elitist click - and not a blind set of rules like the ICZN. The provisions are geared to the PhD museum or university geneticists. It is in fact anti-science for a science that is not free to all and even radical new thought is doomed to the dictatorship of those tenured demigods (the peer-reviewer class) who alone will decide what is published and what is not - and only in their approved "journals". This phylocode is monothought. It is one selfaggrandized segment of science attempting to subject all other evolutionary and taxonomic thought to itself. Yes, Stanley "these discussions would become obsolete" . Free taxonomic discussion would become obsolete. The cladists may not like to admit it but their trees are planted in soil filled with assumptions. Their most base assumption is that life - evolution - works in a very predictable pattern - the way they see it. They assume X is primitive, thus Y must have arose from X. These are more different in some way so they are more distant. These are similar in some way so they are the same "species" The DD and CC "evolutionary laws" (assumptions) - different = distant (always) and similar = same (always). They phylocode is a lumpers dream come true. Throw all the subspecies into the blender. Heck, throw most of the species in there too - ah, the Super Species is king. The Wise Use people will love this! Cut that forest and plow that prairie - there are no taxonomically unique entities there - for there are no more subspecies. X should be taken off the endangered list as it is genetically the same exact thing as B, G and F. The phylocode will result in monothough. The ICZN code is polythought. Well, I'll quit for now. I am sure I have aroused enough "feelings" by now. We'll hear about how I don't know what I'm talking about for sure. Well, I didn't write this because of my technical knowledge. I wrote it out of my professional knowledge of people. Power still corrupts and absolute power still corrupts people absolutely. The last thing we need is a taxonomy based in a highly restricted arena with few qualified to do it and even fewer qualified (anointed) to say who/what gets in. I can see why this is gaining approval among the professional elite - greatly downsize the competition and get a bigger piece of the research pie for ones self. My last remarks. The current ICZN does not hinder phylo-science at all. It allows it. Encourages it. Provides a place for it. The ICZN is open. Open minded. Open science. The phylocode is closed and only possesses the potential to become more restrictive. It is true that democracy is much more messy than dictatorship because of what it allows. But I'll choose the diversity and conflict allowed by democracy any day over the safety and sterility of monogovernment. I like my science the same way - messy but free. If you want scientific dictatorship you are welcome to it. It will definitely be more clean and quite. Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From hankb at theriver.com Wed Apr 4 01:29:04 2001 From: hankb at theriver.com (Hank & Priscilla Brodkin) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:29:04 -0700 Subject: Arizona field report References: <20010403191324.17072.00000352@ng-fp1.aol.com> <005401c0bcaa$50892000$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <3ACAB120.8024CEB3@theriver.com> Ron Gatrelle wrote: > > Bill -- Boy do I wish I was with you on this day!!!!! What a great > diversity of terrific species. My only comment is on the J. nigrosuffusa > and J. coenia records. I have no reason to believe that this is not 100% > accurate. Thus, you have the sympatric occurrence of two species. I am > among those who feel that nigrosuffusa may well be a species in its own > right. At lest a subspecies of genoveva - or ?. Other comments solicited > on this. -- Ron > Ron - I am no scientist - but it is not uncommon here (in SE AZ) to have coenia and what most of us call the nigrosuffusa form of genoveva flying sympatrically. -- Hank & Priscilla Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" by Bob Stewart, Priscilla and Hank Brodkin - due August 2001 http://pages.zdnet.com/hbrodkin/butterfliesofarizona/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Wed Apr 4 01:48:52 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:48:52 -0500 Subject: Phyciodes (names) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010402091621.00b338e0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010404002206.00b26820@pop3.norton.antivirus> James, You bring up another complication. There are several ways of naming a species in honor of someone. *X. jonesi* is named after a Mr. Jones. *X. jonesae* is named after a Ms. Jones. *X. jonesorum* is named after the Jones brothers or Jones clan. *X. jonesarum* is named after the Jones sisters. *X. jonesiana* from the collection or accumulation of Mr. Jones. *X. jonesaeana* from the collection or accumulation of Ms. Jones. *X. jonesensis* from the place named Jones. *X. jonesoides* like Jones. In all these cases it does not matter what the gender of genus *X.* is. (Except -iana/-aeana changes to -ianus/-aeanus for a feminine genus - almost missed that!) It does matter when the species epithet is an adjective because the adjective must take the gender of the genus/noun it describes. Now to be difficult: If we named a genus *Xania* we would have to state the gender in the original description or nobody would know what it is because this is a non-word as there is no X in Latin. For laffs let's call it feminine. We could have *Xania browni* named for Mr. Brown; *Xania brownae* named for Ms. Brown; *Xania brownensis* named for its occurrence at Brown Mountain (along with the lights); *Xania brunnea* for brown in color; but *Xania brunneus* would be wrong. After a while you learn this and reflexively cringe at the errors. Remember it is not the species name that carries the gender, but the genus. The species name is just a descriptor of some sort. Now maybe some classics expert can correct me and clarify the situation. ................Chris Durden At 12:32 PM 4/3/2001 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Chris J. Durden wrote: > > > 12 are named after people and are required to take the gender of the person > > rather than the genus. > >Okay, the following is probably more suited to TAXACOM, but here is an >example to chew on. I have tried to lay it out as clearly as possible: > >Point 1. Archips is a neuter generic name, as far as I can find out. >Some influential, recent monograph and check-list authors have taken the >masculine ending to all species names apparently thinking that Archips is >masculine, but most of the species authors used a feminine ending in >their descriptions. > >Point 2. Most Tortricid workers have a tradition of ending species names >with -ana or -anus (similar to workers in other groups, ex. -ella). -ana/-anus >means simply "essence of" or the "quality of". > >Point 3. I named a new species after Rich Goyer, a male, and from what I >hear now, changes the specific name to masculine. > >Okay, considering the three points above... I named a new species Archips >goyerana. Point 1 is satisfied as Archips is neuter to the best of my >knowledge (but see point 3). Point 2 is satisfied to the extent of point >1. Point 3, I reasoned, was sacrificed for the following reasons: > >Reason A. The species all have an -ana suffix already (except in some >recent monographic and check-list literature). > >Reason B. Adding the suffix -ana or -anus renders the patronym >non-sensical even though it was intended as a patronym (quality of Goyer, >or essence of Goyer). > >Reason C. I was attempting to honor Dr. Goyer with this patronym, and >naming it Goyer-anus did not accomplish that in my opinion and had me >dreading common name suggestions later (more akin to a bad pun along the >same lines as dyaria/dyarea - which I think is legend as that name does >not appear to exist anywhere). > >This is why I don't care much for patronyms, but it was well deserved in >this case (15+ years of related research dedicated to this critter). > >Thoughts appreciated, although the name is published now. Oh, and the >common name is firmly established by the Entomological Society of America >as the Baldcypress Leafroller, which is good if someone decides to change >the ending and then has to think of a common name. > >Regards, >James J. Kruse, Ph.D. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Wed Apr 4 02:08:24 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 01:08:24 -0500 Subject: multicaudata ( try IV ) In-Reply-To: <3ACA81B6.DA58D1D9@extremezone.com> References: <005f01c0ba56$f0cd15e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010404010308.00aba260@pop3.norton.antivirus> Phylo/shmylo - who speaks it? Ecologists, biogeographers, paleontologists and others who work with whole (or once whole) organisms will always use words for their species. How many names can you remember and pot faces to? How many numbers can you remember and put places to? By the way - the site did not come up for me. ................Chris Durden At 07:06 PM 4/3/2001 -0700, you wrote: >What in interesting and lively systematic and taxonomic discussion this >is. However, the PhyloCoder's are very ambitious and are gaining >significant support. They could very well succeed in replacing the >Linnaean system with the Phylocode system. The unfortunate fallout would >be that these discussions would become obsolete. Check out >www.ohio.edu/phylocode. > >I am, in a sense, playing the devil's advocate, but it appears the >PhyloCode system could be something to reckon with. > >Stan > >Ron Gatrelle wrote: > > > > First part of this transmission can be foung in part I. Part of the second > > part in Brodkin's reply. Now (hopefully) to what has not yet made it > > through to Leps L. > > > > ...Next, in the above, only popular (informal or semi-scientific) > > literature was cited. There is no mention of the most recent lists (dos > > Passos, Miller/Brown /Ferris, or MONA) - which are the latest in a long > > line of American taxonomic lists which have been (and ARE) The Standards. > > There is no mention of the latest scientific literature dealing with > > the taxonomy of multicaudata (us). That being, the 100% scientific > > publication: Systematics of Western North American Butterflies, Thomas C. > > Emmel editor. I will come back to this later. > > What we are after here is not "just" an understanding of Latin gender > > suffixes. We are after the correct spelling of a butterfly's "name" > > (scientific identity) according to the latest rules of the International > > Commission on Zoological Nomenclature. In other words, what is the correct > > latinization under the rules of the ICZN. > > So here is the deal. Kirby (1844) described it as -a. Dos Passos (1964) > > listed it as -a. Miler/Brown list it as -a. When under the genus Papilio, > > by the rules of the ICZN, the name should be multicaudata - with an -a. > > Next, we have the genus Pterourus, which some only see as a subgenus. > > Ferris (correctly) amended the spelling to multicaudatus to comply with the > > spelling under the genus Pterourus. > > Bottom line. With Papilio it is multicaudata, But with Pterourus AND > > with Papilio (Pterourus) it is multicaudatus. Now, Opler's use of both is > > just a publication error. Scott is technically correct. I don't have > > Tilden/Smith - if they use -us under Pterourus they are correct - if they > > use -us under Papilio they are incorrect ( I don't have their book). Some > > other references. In Btflys of Can. it is incorrect as the genus is Papilio > > and the spelling is -us. Same for the new Btflys of BC Can - Papilio is the > > genus and multicaudatus (should be -a). Most amazingly is the use by Emmel > > and Austin in W. Systematics. There they describe two new subspecies under > > Papilio multicaudatus - they are, grandiosus and pusillus. Two new > > erroneous -us endings. (Can I here amend this to the correct spellings? No > > the code does not allow internet science.) > > REPHRASE. The spelling was amended by Ferris (correctly) to fit > > Pterourus. Those who are using multicaudatus are NOT following Ferris (or > > the rules) if they are also not using the corresponding genus that (by the > > code) necessitates the -us spelling. NOW, if there is some rule I am > > unaware of that even though "Papilio" is used yet somehow Pterourus is > > understood - then I guess it is OK to use multicaudatus with Papilio. > > > > Ron > > > > PS. Scientific names are about a whole lot more than Latin (and Greek). > > They are about technical taxonomic delimitations of observable evolutionary > > developments. Common names aren't about anything other than what makes > > amateurs - in their country's language - feel good. (Please note that I do > > fairly frequently use (and "like") common names - I just know their place. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Wed Apr 4 19:25:42 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:25:42 -0400 Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" In-Reply-To: Liz Day "Re: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths"" (Apr 3, 2:20pm) References: <4.3.2.7.1.20010403140935.00a9fbd0@b.pop.kiva.net> Message-ID: <1010404192545.ZM16550@Gochfeld> If there is no evidence that Compsilura concinnata has arrived or exists in Illinois, does that mean there has not yet been a decline in the large Silk Moths there. What about in other parts of North America where the parasite was not introduced (if there are such parts). M. Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Wed Apr 4 19:47:00 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:47:00 -0400 Subject: Dyaria In-Reply-To: dyanega@pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) "Re: Phyciodes (names)" (Apr 3, 4:42pm) References: Message-ID: <1010404194703.ZM16550@Gochfeld> As I think I mentioned to this list previously, John B. Smith (Rutgers and NJ State Entomologist until 1912), named this genus as a payback to his rival, Harrison Dyar who had previously named something "corpulentis" in honor of the rotund Smith. Thanks to Doug for finding that Dyaria exists(ed) as a name. But I never figured out what taxon corpulentis went with. Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Wed Apr 4 12:28:42 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 11:28:42 -0500 Subject: Polycode editorial In-Reply-To: <007601c0bcc2$d1c06c60$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010404111051.00b34b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Ron, I finally managed to get through to the PhyloCode site. Given certain assumptions the code is well crafted. These assumptions however introduce an element of instability into nomenclature which would seem to require the complete renaming of supraspecific taxonomy and eventually, specific taxonomy. I do not think this is desirable or useful and certainly not necessary. Why these people cannot work within the framework of the existing rules escapes me. I see nothing inherently phylo-hostile in the existing systems of nomenclature (Bot/Zo/Bac). Three members of the advisory group are colleagues of mine for whose other work I have great respect. I must pick their brains before further comments. ................Chris Durden At 12:50 AM 4/4/2001 -0400, you wrote: >The great beauty of the Linnaean system as regulated under the ICZN, is its >great freedom for scientific expression (argument and disagreement) within >some very strict rules. For centuries, a great part of the taxonomic record >has been the product of non-professional non-PhD researchers. The drafted >phylocode will end that. > >A cursory reading of the draft phylocode at www.ohio.edu/phylocode reveals >a system totally under the control of an elitist click - and not a blind >set of rules like the ICZN. The provisions are geared to the PhD museum or >university geneticists. It is in fact anti-science for a science that is >not free to all and even radical new thought is doomed to the dictatorship >of those tenured demigods (the peer-reviewer class) who alone will decide >what is published and what is not - and only in their approved "journals". >This phylocode is monothought. It is one selfaggrandized segment of science >attempting to subject all other evolutionary and taxonomic thought to >itself. > >Yes, Stanley "these discussions would become obsolete" . Free taxonomic >discussion would become obsolete. The cladists may not like to admit it but >their trees are planted in soil filled with assumptions. Their most base >assumption is that life - evolution - works in a very predictable pattern - >the way they see it. They assume X is primitive, thus Y must have arose >from X. These are more different in some way so they are more distant. >These are similar in some way so they are the same "species" The DD and CC >"evolutionary laws" (assumptions) - different = distant (always) and >similar = same (always). > >They phylocode is a lumpers dream come true. Throw all the subspecies into >the blender. Heck, throw most of the species in there too - ah, the Super >Species is king. The Wise Use people will love this! Cut that forest and >plow that prairie - there are no taxonomically unique entities there - for >there are no more subspecies. X should be taken off the endangered list as >it is genetically the same exact thing as B, G and F. > >The phylocode will result in monothough. The ICZN code is polythought. >Well, I'll quit for now. I am sure I have aroused enough "feelings" by now. >We'll hear about how I don't know what I'm talking about for sure. Well, I >didn't write this because of my technical knowledge. I wrote it out of my >professional knowledge of people. Power still corrupts and absolute power >still corrupts people absolutely. The last thing we need is a taxonomy >based in a highly restricted arena with few qualified to do it and even >fewer qualified (anointed) to say who/what gets in. I can see why this is >gaining approval among the professional elite - greatly downsize the >competition and get a bigger piece of the research pie for ones self. > >My last remarks. The current ICZN does not hinder phylo-science at all. >It allows it. Encourages it. Provides a place for it. The ICZN is open. >Open minded. Open science. The phylocode is closed and only possesses the >potential to become more restrictive. It is true that democracy is much >more messy than dictatorship because of what it allows. But I'll choose the >diversity and conflict allowed by democracy any day over the safety and >sterility of monogovernment. I like my science the same way - messy but >free. If you want scientific dictatorship you are welcome to it. It will >definitely be more clean and quite. >Ron > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From kriegelr at msu.edu Wed Apr 4 12:40:37 2001 From: kriegelr at msu.edu (kriegelr at msu.edu) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:40:37 EDT Subject: Compsilura concinnata in Michigan Message-ID: <200104041640.f34GecV49236@pilot20.cl.msu.edu> Compsilura concinnata has been in Michigan for over a decade. It was reared in 1986 from larvae of cranberry fruitworm, Acrobasis vaccini, collected in a commercial blueberry field. This was documented in Murray, D.A., R.D. Kriegel, J.W. Johnson and A.J. Howitt. 1996. Natural enemies of cranberry fruitworm, Acrobasis vaccini, (Lepidoptera: Pyralidae) in Michigan highbush blueberries. Great Lakes Entomol. 29(2): 81-86. Bob Kriegel Bath, MI ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From beebuzz at kiva.net Wed Apr 4 13:39:04 2001 From: beebuzz at kiva.net (Liz Day) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:39:04 -0500 Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" In-Reply-To: <1010404192545.ZM16550@Gochfeld> References: <4.3.2.7.1.20010403140935.00a9fbd0@b.pop.kiva.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010404123737.00aa7d00@b.pop.kiva.net> >If there is no evidence that Compsilura concinnata has arrived or exists in Illinois, >does that mean there has not yet been a decline in the large Silk Moths there. I don't know. There are still regal and promethea moths commonly found near Indianapolis despite the ravaged habitat. Liz ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Wed Apr 4 14:30:47 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:30:47 -0400 Subject: midea References: <20010403191324.17072.00000352@ng-fp1.aol.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010404005523.00b2e6b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.2.20010404093038.00b33be0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <00af01c0bd35$5e5c5680$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Chris, The deal with anickae vs taxana according to Klots and dosPassos is not a matter of what we see with our eye, but what we don't see - which is their evolution. Klots said the following about the Texas material. "The great phenetic similarity of the populations in Texas and in the northeast (annickae) is by no means evidence that they are genetically so similar that they should be considered subspecifically congruent. To do so would, in fact, contravene everything that is now known about the evolutionary differentiation of populations on the specific and subspecific level during periods of spatial isolation from each other." Because these two visually similar pops are separated by a thousand miles of two totally different subspecific/evolutionary units occupying this space interval they can not be consubspecific. In my paper I only briefly mentioned a few of the key points from dosPassos and Klots. Yet, my paper is indeed what its titles says, An Addendum to ... dosPassos and Klots 1969. Both they and I determined that the mass of populations from Alabama north, and west to TX and Missouri were in such a state of flux that they are not assignable to any subspecies - this is one giant genetic blend zone where any and all phenotypes may be found at just about any given location. There are only three genetically stable pops that have achieved subspecific stability. 1) Annickae from central sandhills of GA north (except the coast of GA, SC, and s NC). 2) Midea on the islands and immediate coast of GA, SC, and s NC possibly to s. VA in isolation). 3) Texana from Texas (except e corner) north through Kansas. This was not my conclusion. It was dos Passos and Klots conclusion. I simply verified and concurred with this in my paper. I did however go one step further and gave the Texas segregate official subspecific status and a name. Visually, texana can only be told from annickae by the reduced amount of black scales at the base of the dorsal wings. This is an accepted taxonomic character with other species in this clade (see bflys of Can.on sara vs. flora). (It should be remembered here that a texana with atypical heavy basal black will look like an annickae with atypical sparse basal black.) When a series of 40 or 50 specimens from TX and NJ a series of like number are put side by side this difference is very obvious. YET, as Klots said, even if they looked identical they are not the same subspecies. I will try to remember an send you a copy of my 1998 Anthocharis paper. But the dosPassos and Klots 1969 Entomologica America Vol. 45 paper must be consulted also as mine is just an addendum to it. I am going to also post this on Leps-l as my opinion is that few of today's workers are familiar with dosPassos and Klots paper (and even less aware of mine) as what is written in various places - esp. field reposts is more often than not way off from the published scientific record. With my very best wishes for you, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris J. Durden" To: "Ron Gatrelle" Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:43 AM Subject: Re: Arizona field report > Ron, snip-- Charles Bourdelon showed me your paper on *Anthocharis* from Texas. A quick reading without specimens at hand did not convince me but I need to take another careful look at your data. The *Anthocharis* I am familiar with from Texas come from West Central, East Central and South Texas. I have not examined specimens from East Texas. I have looked at long series from Travis, Bastrop and Llano Counties and specimens from adjacent counties and I have not yet convinced myself that these insects can be separated from the *A. midea annickae* I am familiar with from Connecticut and Maryland. snip--- > ..............Chris Durden ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Wed Apr 4 15:06:37 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:06:37 -0500 Subject: midea In-Reply-To: <00af01c0bd35$5e5c5680$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> References: <20010403191324.17072.00000352@ng-fp1.aol.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010404005523.00b2e6b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.2.20010404093038.00b33be0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010404135049.00b3bee0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Ron, I shall take another look at specimens. What is your type locality for *texana*? Texas is large enough to be able to choose to be 5 states if the legislature would ever consider it. We may be talking about different populations here! I remember pulling out specimens and the OD paper for *annickae* about 25 years ago. I see nothing in the historical biogeography that would preclude full glacial survival of *annickae* in central Texas, along with *Mylohyus* and other components of the "shale barrens" habitat, followed by repopulation to the Northeast with the other "shale barrens" biota. Vertebrate paleontology and botany strongly suggest this scenario. However I shall take another look for the wing-base character, although I could not see a difference before. The series are larger now. The more variable population of the intervening area would I suspect follow the drastic opening up of early successional habitat by agricultural development, and be a very recent phenomenon. The key might be held in small populations along bluffs of the Mississippi where there is a chance for survival of relict archaic populations. There may also be relict populations on the shale barrens of the Ouachita Mountains. Have we adequately prospected these areas to be sure? .............Chris Durden At 02:30 PM 4/4/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Chris, > >The deal with anickae vs taxana according to Klots and dosPassos is not a >matter of what we see with our eye, but what we don't see - which is their >evolution. Klots said the following about the Texas material. "The great >phenetic similarity of the populations in Texas and in the northeast >(annickae) is by no means evidence that they are genetically so similar >that they should be considered subspecifically congruent. To do so would, >in fact, contravene everything that is now known about the evolutionary >differentiation of populations on the specific and subspecific level during >periods of spatial isolation from each other." > >Because these two visually similar pops are separated by a thousand miles >of two totally different subspecific/evolutionary units occupying this >space interval they can not be consubspecific. In my paper I only briefly >mentioned a few of the key points from dosPassos and Klots. Yet, my paper >is indeed what its titles says, An Addendum to ... dosPassos and Klots >1969. Both they and I determined that the mass of populations from Alabama >north, and west to TX and Missouri were in such a state of flux that they >are not assignable to any subspecies - this is one giant genetic blend zone >where any and all phenotypes may be found at just about any given location. > >There are only three genetically stable pops that have achieved subspecific >stability. 1) Annickae from central sandhills of GA north (except the coast >of GA, SC, and s NC). 2) Midea on the islands and immediate coast of GA, >SC, and s NC possibly to s. VA in isolation). 3) Texana from Texas (except >e corner) north through Kansas. This was not my conclusion. It was dos >Passos and Klots conclusion. I simply verified and concurred with this in >my paper. I did however go one step further and gave the Texas segregate >official subspecific status and a name. > >Visually, texana can only be told from annickae by the reduced amount of >black scales at the base of the dorsal wings. This is an accepted taxonomic >character with other species in this clade (see bflys of Can.on sara vs. >flora). (It should be remembered here that a texana with atypical heavy >basal black will look like an annickae with atypical sparse basal black.) >When a series of 40 or 50 specimens from TX and NJ a series of like number >are put side by side this difference is very obvious. YET, as Klots said, >even if they looked identical they are not the same subspecies. > >I will try to remember an send you a copy of my 1998 Anthocharis paper. But >the dosPassos and Klots 1969 Entomologica America Vol. 45 paper must be >consulted also as mine is just an addendum to it. I am going to also post >this on Leps-l as my opinion is that few of today's workers are familiar >with dosPassos and Klots paper (and even less aware of mine) as what is >written in various places - esp. field reposts is more often than not way >off from the published scientific record. >With my very best wishes for you, >Ron > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chris J. Durden" >To: "Ron Gatrelle" >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:43 AM >Subject: Re: Arizona field report > > > > Ron, >snip-- >Charles Bourdelon showed me your paper on *Anthocharis* from Texas. A quick >reading without specimens at hand did not convince me but I need to take >another careful look at your data. The *Anthocharis* I am familiar with >from Texas come from West Central, East Central and South Texas. I have not >examined specimens from East Texas. I have looked at long series from >Travis, Bastrop and Llano Counties and specimens from adjacent counties and >I have not yet convinced myself that these insects can be separated from >the *A. midea annickae* I am familiar with from Connecticut and Maryland. >snip--- > > ..............Chris Durden ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Leptraps at aol.com Wed Apr 4 19:53:17 2001 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:53:17 EDT Subject: midea Message-ID: <9e.126eac3d.27fd0ded@aol.com> Chris: While living in Greenwood, Mississippi, I collected a fairly long series of A. midea. Along the bluffs at the edge of the delta in Grenada, Carroll and Tallahatchie counties the A. midea are quite typical of what I have collected in Ohio, Virginia, Kentucky, and North Carolina. I also have specimens from Webster, Oktibbeha, Chickasaw, Tishomingo, and Prentiss counties, here again they look much the same as all of the above. The only specimens in my collection that vary at all are from Medina County, Texas, Glynn County, Georgia and the Great Dismal Swamp in Virginia. My material basically agrees with Gatrelle's addendum. If there is a population that is unique in Mississippi, I did not find it. Leroy C. Koehn 202 Redding Road Georgetown, Kentucky USA 40324-2622 Tele.: 502-570-9123 Cell: 502-803-5422 E-mail: Leptraps at aol.com "Let's get among them" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010404/6d17bd79/attachment.html From stanlep at extremezone.com Wed Apr 4 21:14:49 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:14:49 -0700 Subject: multicaudata ( try IV ) References: <3ACA81B6.DA58D1D9@extremezone.com>, <4.3.2.7.2.20010404010308.00aba260@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3ACBC709.2EF86B19@extremezone.com> The first time I tried it, it did not come for me also. Next time I tried it did. Apparently the university server must be having down times now and then. Stan "Chris J. Durden" wrote: > > Phylo/shmylo - who speaks it? Ecologists, biogeographers, paleontologists > and others who work with whole (or once whole) organisms will always use > words for their species. How many names can you remember and pot faces to? > How many numbers can you remember and put places to? > By the way - the site did not come up for me. > ................Chris Durden > > At 07:06 PM 4/3/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >What in interesting and lively systematic and taxonomic discussion this > >is. However, the PhyloCoder's are very ambitious and are gaining > >significant support. They could very well succeed in replacing the > >Linnaean system with the Phylocode system. The unfortunate fallout would > >be that these discussions would become obsolete. Check out > >www.ohio.edu/phylocode. > > > >I am, in a sense, playing the devil's advocate, but it appears the > >PhyloCode system could be something to reckon with. > > > >Stan > > > >Ron Gatrelle wrote: > > > > > > First part of this transmission can be foung in part I. Part of the second > > > part in Brodkin's reply. Now (hopefully) to what has not yet made it > > > through to Leps L. > > > > > > ...Next, in the above, only popular (informal or semi-scientific) > > > literature was cited. There is no mention of the most recent lists (dos > > > Passos, Miller/Brown /Ferris, or MONA) - which are the latest in a long > > > line of American taxonomic lists which have been (and ARE) The Standards. > > > There is no mention of the latest scientific literature dealing with > > > the taxonomy of multicaudata (us). That being, the 100% scientific > > > publication: Systematics of Western North American Butterflies, Thomas C. > > > Emmel editor. I will come back to this later. > > > What we are after here is not "just" an understanding of Latin gender > > > suffixes. We are after the correct spelling of a butterfly's "name" > > > (scientific identity) according to the latest rules of the International > > > Commission on Zoological Nomenclature. In other words, what is the correct > > > latinization under the rules of the ICZN. > > > So here is the deal. Kirby (1844) described it as -a. Dos Passos (1964) > > > listed it as -a. Miler/Brown list it as -a. When under the genus Papilio, > > > by the rules of the ICZN, the name should be multicaudata - with an -a. > > > Next, we have the genus Pterourus, which some only see as a subgenus. > > > Ferris (correctly) amended the spelling to multicaudatus to comply with the > > > spelling under the genus Pterourus. > > > Bottom line. With Papilio it is multicaudata, But with Pterourus AND > > > with Papilio (Pterourus) it is multicaudatus. Now, Opler's use of both is > > > just a publication error. Scott is technically correct. I don't have > > > Tilden/Smith - if they use -us under Pterourus they are correct - if they > > > use -us under Papilio they are incorrect ( I don't have their book). Some > > > other references. In Btflys of Can. it is incorrect as the genus is Papilio > > > and the spelling is -us. Same for the new Btflys of BC Can - Papilio is the > > > genus and multicaudatus (should be -a). Most amazingly is the use by Emmel > > > and Austin in W. Systematics. There they describe two new subspecies under > > > Papilio multicaudatus - they are, grandiosus and pusillus. Two new > > > erroneous -us endings. (Can I here amend this to the correct spellings? No > > > the code does not allow internet science.) > > > REPHRASE. The spelling was amended by Ferris (correctly) to fit > > > Pterourus. Those who are using multicaudatus are NOT following Ferris (or > > > the rules) if they are also not using the corresponding genus that (by the > > > code) necessitates the -us spelling. NOW, if there is some rule I am > > > unaware of that even though "Papilio" is used yet somehow Pterourus is > > > understood - then I guess it is OK to use multicaudatus with Papilio. > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > PS. Scientific names are about a whole lot more than Latin (and Greek). > > > They are about technical taxonomic delimitations of observable evolutionary > > > developments. Common names aren't about anything other than what makes > > > amateurs - in their country's language - feel good. (Please note that I do > > > fairly frequently use (and "like") common names - I just know their place. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Wed Apr 4 23:53:04 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 20:53:04 -0700 Subject: Polycode editorial References: <007601c0bcc2$d1c06c60$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <3ACBEC20.5F848424@extremezone.com> I don't know much about this either. In a sense it seems to me PhyloCode is merely a different expression of the current Linnaean system because the underlying basis of systematics and taxonomy under the Linnaean system is relatedness anyway, even if clades are not identified. The advantage I can see with Phylocode is that major taxonomic revisions, depending on where the type specimen is put, would be minimized because there is no 'type' specimen. However, even under the PhyloCode system certain assumptions, as you pointed out Ron, are made to establish what is a clade and what is not a clade. If some of these assumptions are subsequently found to incorrect, major shifts in classifications would occur even under the PhyloCode system. With respect to PhyloCode being the lumper's dream, my initial impression was just the opposite because the concept seems to be an extension of the phylogenetic species concept, although you may be correct. I don't know enough about it yet. Stan Ron Gatrelle wrote: > > The great beauty of the Linnaean system as regulated under the ICZN, is its > great freedom for scientific expression (argument and disagreement) within > some very strict rules. For centuries, a great part of the taxonomic record > has been the product of non-professional non-PhD researchers. The drafted > phylocode will end that. > > A cursory reading of the draft phylocode at www.ohio.edu/phylocode reveals > a system totally under the control of an elitist click - and not a blind > set of rules like the ICZN. The provisions are geared to the PhD museum or > university geneticists. It is in fact anti-science for a science that is > not free to all and even radical new thought is doomed to the dictatorship > of those tenured demigods (the peer-reviewer class) who alone will decide > what is published and what is not - and only in their approved "journals". > This phylocode is monothought. It is one selfaggrandized segment of science > attempting to subject all other evolutionary and taxonomic thought to > itself. > > Yes, Stanley "these discussions would become obsolete" . Free taxonomic > discussion would become obsolete. The cladists may not like to admit it but > their trees are planted in soil filled with assumptions. Their most base > assumption is that life - evolution - works in a very predictable pattern - > the way they see it. They assume X is primitive, thus Y must have arose > from X. These are more different in some way so they are more distant. > These are similar in some way so they are the same "species" The DD and CC > "evolutionary laws" (assumptions) - different = distant (always) and > similar = same (always). > > They phylocode is a lumpers dream come true. Throw all the subspecies into > the blender. Heck, throw most of the species in there too - ah, the Super > Species is king. The Wise Use people will love this! Cut that forest and > plow that prairie - there are no taxonomically unique entities there - for > there are no more subspecies. X should be taken off the endangered list as > it is genetically the same exact thing as B, G and F. > > The phylocode will result in monothough. The ICZN code is polythought. > Well, I'll quit for now. I am sure I have aroused enough "feelings" by now. > We'll hear about how I don't know what I'm talking about for sure. Well, I > didn't write this because of my technical knowledge. I wrote it out of my > professional knowledge of people. Power still corrupts and absolute power > still corrupts people absolutely. The last thing we need is a taxonomy > based in a highly restricted arena with few qualified to do it and even > fewer qualified (anointed) to say who/what gets in. I can see why this is > gaining approval among the professional elite - greatly downsize the > competition and get a bigger piece of the research pie for ones self. > > My last remarks. The current ICZN does not hinder phylo-science at all. > It allows it. Encourages it. Provides a place for it. The ICZN is open. > Open minded. Open science. The phylocode is closed and only possesses the > potential to become more restrictive. It is true that democracy is much > more messy than dictatorship because of what it allows. But I'll choose the > diversity and conflict allowed by democracy any day over the safety and > sterility of monogovernment. I like my science the same way - messy but > free. If you want scientific dictatorship you are welcome to it. It will > definitely be more clean and quite. > Ron > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Thu Apr 5 01:29:16 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:29:16 -0400 Subject: Polycode editorial References: <007601c0bcc2$d1c06c60$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3ACBEC20.5F848424@extremezone.com> Message-ID: <015801c0bd91$5bd27280$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Stan, Felix informed me that I was 180 off too on the lumper deal. This may well be. It is interesting that coming out of the dark and just reading the Phylocode (parts) that I came away with a lump and not a split. This is because subspecies look to be gone - and Supra in. I think it is possible that just as there is more than one way to skin a ____ (-: no offence to PETA ), that there is more than one way to lump. Is Dino-Bird a lump or a split? A Clade. A Supra. Yes, we can have a lot more phylo "species" - BUT - the Phylo- species are nothing more than what the ICZN cast out long ago - forms, variations, heck why not aberrations too. So far I still say it is a lumpers dream come true - big lumps of little splits. What will count in the end is the lump - clade. It will come to that. Further, Phylocode may say in its intro that it just wants peaceful co-existence with the ICZN... Yah, sure. That is what Sears told the mom and pop business too when they started. NABA had no intention of putting out a scientific names list either. What did I say about power and human nature? Once something gets so big it just naturally decides to take over. Might makes right. Oh, you will love this. "Someone" suggested I subscribe to the TAXACOM bulletin board today. So I did. In the first 20 minutes I only got two messages - the two I sent in. I had to argue with my own self! It was tough! I get no respect anywhere! Not even from my own self. What's up with this? Oh, and now I am sitting here listening to myself tell me to get the off the computer and do my tax return - NOW! Ok, already. Gosh. Can I at least wait till I have signed my nam e ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stanley A. Gorodenski" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:53 PM Subject: Re: Polycode editorial > I don't know much about this either. In a sense it seems to me > PhyloCode is merely a different expression of the current Linnaean > system because the underlying basis of systematics and taxonomy under > the Linnaean system is relatedness anyway, even if clades are not > identified. The advantage I can see with Phylocode is that major > taxonomic revisions, depending on where the type specimen is put, would > be minimized because there is no 'type' specimen. However, even under > the PhyloCode system certain assumptions, as you pointed out Ron, are > made to establish what is a clade and what is not a clade. If some of > these assumptions are subsequently found to incorrect, major shifts in > classifications would occur even under the PhyloCode system. > > With respect to PhyloCode being the lumper's dream, my initial > impression was just the opposite because the concept seems to be an > extension of the phylogenetic species concept, although you may be > correct. I don't know enough about it yet. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Thu Apr 5 05:31:00 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 05:31:00 -0400 Subject: moth type photos Message-ID: <001d01c0bdb3$20e2bd20$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> All Well the photos of paratypes of nine new species of Lacinipolia and their genitalia were sent over to the www.tils-ttr.org web "master" a few days ago. I see they are not up yet. That's what we get for having my son-in-law as the web master. He really knows a lot about all this computer stuff - but family is hard to work with sometimes. I'll have to talk with his warden (my daughter) to find out what chain gang she has him on now. She is thinking about going back to teaching school - good! I love her but Joe is way too good to her. I'll just put it this way - she takes after her dad. If you ever visit the TILS web site - be sure and drop Joe a note (he's at the end of the About section at JoesLittleWorld) and let him know he is doing a good job with the site and send your sympathies for having to put up with TWO Gatrelles. There is a reason God didn't put many of us in this world. Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From ievsikov at flowpath.com Thu Apr 5 09:44:03 2001 From: ievsikov at flowpath.com (Igor Evsikov) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:44:03 -0400 Subject: WiSCy v.4.25 Scientific Calculator for real, copmlex and matrix operation+Grapher+Unit converter (Win'9x,NT,ME,2000) Message-ID: I have upload new version of WiSCy99 v.4.25 to ZDNet: http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/stories/info/0,,000PUQ,.html WiSCy99 (Windows Scientific Calculator + Grapher + Unit Converter) is a comprehensive yet easy-to-use scientific calculator. Very thorough and nicely designed, WiSCy is well documented and has a familiar and attractive interface that makes it a pleasure to use. Features include support for color graphs, integration, trigonomic functions, a variety of statistics functions, a constants list that can be easily edited, unit conversions and editor for custom units convertor, and lots more. You can even build and edit lists of user variables and functions. All calculations are logged to a "tape" that can be saved as text or printed. Graph plots can be also be saved in one of three graphics formats. Features List: - Arithmetic and logical operators and functions - Common functions such as exp, ln, sqrt, sqr, bnml etc. - Common, trigonometric, hyperbolic complex functions - Trigonometric, Hyperbolic functions - Numerical Integration - Equations can be solved - Special functions (Gamma, Bessel's, Si, Ci, erf, erfc, Fresnel's) - Statistic functions (Average, Standard deviation, Sum, Random, Gauss random, statistical variance, etc ) - FOR-type loop - if (...) then (...) else (...) function - Tape of results - Assistant and debug: error position fixed - Plot f(X), Contour Plot f(X,Y), Color Shading f(X,Y), real 3D-Plot f(X,Y), Derivative, Fit. - Print results, graphics and print preview - Save graphics to BMP, WMF, EMF formats - Matrix Operations(A+B=C, A-B=C, A*B=C, inverse(A)=C, Power(A,n)=C, det |A|=C[1.1], Solve A(X)=C) - Decimal, Hexadecimal and Binary bases - Fixed point, Scientific, Engineering and Sexagesimal notations - Radian and Degree modes for trigonometric functions - Precision: 10-12 significant digits. - Range: _(3.4E-4392 to 1.1E+4392) - 10 pre defined variables, user define variables - User define functions - 30 user defined constants (up to 16000), search and edit file with constants. - Stack for expressions (up to 16000) - Stack for results (up to 16000) - Unit Converter - Custom unit convertor - Evaluate expressions from file - Simple tape calculator Changes: Evaluate expressions from file, simple tape calculatur, custom units convertor. Igor Evsikov ievsikov at flowpath.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jtuttle at fiaaz.net Thu Apr 5 10:57:09 2001 From: jtuttle at fiaaz.net (James and Margaret Tuttle) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 07:57:09 -0700 Subject: Sphinx gordius distribution Message-ID: <3ACC87C5.95C8EF2E@fiaaz.net> In preparing distribution maps, I am trying to determine if Sphinx gordius has three disjunct populations (main population throughout the eastern U.S., upper Midwest and into the eastern Prairie Provinces of Canada; Rocky Mountain populations in Colorado, Utah, and southern Wyoming; and Florida population) or is just seldom collected in the intervening areas. I would like to know about specimens from Nebraska, South Dakota, and Montana.... and also specimens from Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Arkansas. Thanks.... Jim Tuttle Tucson, Arizona ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From birdcr at concentric.net Thu Apr 5 13:06:08 2001 From: birdcr at concentric.net (Randy Emmitt) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 13:06:08 -0400 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae and moth question Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010405125512.02141650@pop3.concentric.net> Folks last spring I believe I found a Pyrgus centaureae (Grizzled Skipper) near Linville Falls in the North Carolina mountains in early May. I`d like to get a photograph of this rare species in NC as it hasn`t been reported in many years here. Can anyone suggest the best time to go and places I might look? Thanks in advance for your help. Next question is about moth cocoons. I`ve seen many of these small cocoons about the size of a woman`s thumb rounded on one end and sort of pointed on the other, always on Cercis canadensis, Eastern Redbud trees in both the piedmont and coastal plain I`ve found these. Anyone know what moth this might be? Also today I found the biggest cocoon I`ve ever seen on Eastern Redbud, it was nearly 1 3/4 wide by 3 inches long what would it be? I`ve collected one of both of these cocoons. Randy Emmitt Rougemont, NC Randy Emmitt Photography http://www.rlephoto.com Carolina Butterfly Society webmaster http://www.carolinabutterflysociety.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rworth at oda.state.or.us Thu Apr 5 14:55:10 2001 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:55:10 -0700 Subject: Pyrgus centaureae and moth question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20010405125512.02141650@pop3.concentric.net> References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010405125512.02141650@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: Randy, The smaller cocoon may be Automeris io. When I lived in G'ville, FL, I would occasionally find them on Redbud. Others there said they could always be found on it, too. The bigger one, I don't know. Maybe a Cecropia? Sounds a little big for a Polyphemus or Luna. All the best, Rich >Folks last spring I believe I found a Pyrgus centaureae (Grizzled >Skipper) near Linville Falls in the North Carolina mountains in >early May. I`d like to get a photograph of this rare species in NC >as it hasn`t been reported in many years here. Can anyone suggest >the best time to go and places I might look? Thanks in advance for >your help. > >Next question is about moth cocoons. I`ve seen many of these small >cocoons about the size of a woman`s thumb rounded on one end and >sort of pointed on the other, always on Cercis canadensis, Eastern >Redbud trees in both the piedmont and coastal plain I`ve found >these. Anyone know what moth this might be? Also today I found the >biggest cocoon I`ve ever seen on Eastern Redbud, it was nearly 1 3/4 >wide by 3 inches long what would it be? I`ve collected one of both >of these cocoons. > > > >Randy Emmitt >Rougemont, NC > >Randy Emmitt Photography >http://www.rlephoto.com >Carolina Butterfly Society webmaster >http://www.carolinabutterflysociety.org/ > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From ricardo at ans.com.au Thu Apr 5 18:05:46 2001 From: ricardo at ans.com.au (Vr. Richard Bejsak-Colloredo-Mansfeld) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:05:46 +1000 Subject: Look on Earth from satellite Message-ID: <008101c0be1c$93ba5d80$1e0484cb@ricardo> Now you can look on the earth on your computer from a satellite.. Even you can zoooom in.. To view the Earth as currently seen from a satellite in Earth orbit, choose the satellite from the list below and press the "View Earth from Satellite" button. The satellite database is updated regularly but may not reflect the current position of satellites, such as the U.S. Space Shuttle, which maneuver frequently after reaching orbit. You can choose from around 50 satellites.. Just go to www.coleoptera.org click on , after click on and first line on this page takes you to satellite Keep care and be of good cheer. Regards (name) Vratislav Richard Eugene Maria John Baptist (surname) of Bejsak (Bayshark)-Colloredo-Mansfeld website: http://www.coleoptera.org listserver: coleoptera on www.egroup.com/group/coleoptera/info.html Coleoptera - Australia, Tenebrionidae of World (incl. Lagriinae, Alleculinae) University of Sydney The Wentworth Bldg., Box 62 NSW 2006 AUSTRALIA phone : +61 414 540 465 email: vratislav at bigfoot.com ricardo at ans.com.au (before Ricardo at compuserve.com and ricardo at login.cz ) Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find that money can not be eaten.' CREE INDIAN PROPHECY. Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jmmaes at ibw.com.ni Fri Apr 6 00:46:50 2001 From: jmmaes at ibw.com.ni (Jean-Michel MAES) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:46:50 -0600 Subject: RV: [Seb-l] Hedylidae Message-ID: <018101c0be56$83425040$729bfea9@uam.edu.ni> Please answer to nmarques at fua.br, not to me... ----- Original Message ----- From: Neliton Marques To: seb-l at listas.ciagri.usp.br Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: [Seb-l] Hedylidae Estou desenvolvendo estudos sobre a biologia e comportamento de um desfolhador do cupua?uzeiro (Theobroma grandiflorum; Sterculiaceae) de Macrosoma tipulata Hubner,1818 (Lepidoptera: Hedylidae) e gostaria de obter informa??es a respeito dessa esp?cie e da fam?lia, trabalhos publicados e/ou indica??o de pessoas que trabalham com este grupo. Atenciosamente, Gilc?lia Melo Lourido Bolsista CNPq -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010405/db4db008/attachment.html From alain.van.vyve at pandora.be Fri Apr 6 05:50:05 2001 From: alain.van.vyve at pandora.be (Alain van vyve) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 09:50:05 GMT Subject: Updates Message-ID: Many new updates on my pricelists of dried and papered insects for collectors !! www.thebugmaniac.be ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From heyjac at earthlink.net Fri Apr 6 08:27:13 2001 From: heyjac at earthlink.net (Earthlink) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 12:27:13 GMT Subject: Severe References: <3accc2d0$4_3@news2.vip.uk.com> Message-ID: <3ACDB502.92D5D6E1@earthlink.net> What's with this "ALERT?" Has anyone gone there? ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us Fri Apr 6 15:19:32 2001 From: Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us (Mike Quinn) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:19:32 -0500 Subject: Butterfly species richness patterns in Canada Message-ID: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD1973D@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Kerr, J. T. 2001. Butterfly species richness patterns in Canada: energy, heterogeneity, and the potential consequences of climate change. Conservation Ecology 5(1): 10. [online] URL: http://www.consecol.org/vol5/iss1/art10 Report Butterfly Species Richness Patterns in Canada: Energy, Heterogeneity, and the Potential Consequences of Climate Change Jeremy T. Kerr University of Oxford Fig. 1. Spatial patterns of butterfly diversity in Canada using the 2? quadrat system. This database includes just over 113,000 records for 292 species. Similar patterns are observed on the unequal area and the 2? grid systems, respectively. The gradient of richness is from blue (few species) to red (many species). http://www.consecol.org/Journal/vol5/iss1/art10/figure1.html ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Apr 6 17:42:21 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 17:42:21 -0400 Subject: Moth photos coming! Message-ID: <001d01c0bee2$786bf040$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Good news. I have an appointment to get with Joe after dinner to get those moth type photos up on the web site. They should be up by 10 pm eastern time USA. ( www.tils-ttr.org photo library) Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Apr 6 17:56:17 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 17:56:17 -0400 Subject: More TTR Vol 1 CDs available Message-ID: <001e01c0bee4$685696e0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Should have mentioned this in the last post.... We have just ran off another batch of TTR Vol. 1 on CD. So these are available again. If interested, obtain at www.tils-ttr.org in "Subscribe" section. You can order on line or print the form out and mail in. Non US mail-in orders are best facilitated by International Postal Money Order. The on line PayPal credit service works fine too for non US - but one needs to first set up an account (which is free and easy). IMPORTANT message. Any of you who are current TTR subscribers should know that TILS in purchasing a bulk supply of the new Papilionid Butterflies of Pakistan book. These will be sent free to all 2001 subscribers. Thus, don't buy a copy as your FREE copy will should be delivered within 30 days. Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jsr6 at duke.edu Fri Apr 6 18:43:31 2001 From: jsr6 at duke.edu (Joshua Stuart Rose) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:43:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Who can help on some insects (fwd) Message-ID: Howdy Leppers, The forwarded message below came to the odonates list, but most of the creatures Matthias wants identified appear to be moth caterpillars (plus a few mosquitoes), so I figure this list is a better place for it. All are pretty spectacular, especially the scaly thing at the bottom of the page that I'm not even sure is a caterpillar; the text mentions Weichkafers, which I think is some kind of beetle... If anyone has a clue, please e-mail the address on the page (though I wouldn't mind hearing the names of these incredible critters either). Cheers, Josh Joshua S. Rose Duke University Department of Biology (Zoology, R.I.P.) jsr6 at acpub.duke.edu http://www.duke.edu/~jsr6/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 00:09:55 +0200 From: Matthias Hartung To: dragonflies at listbot.com Subject: Who can help on some insects Odonata - http://www.listbot.com/cgi-bin/subscriber Hi all, a friend has ask me to help on some animals incl. insects from Borneo and other regions. This list is written in german, but the pictures are all from animals unknown for us. Perhaps anyone an help. Please answer, the email adress is included in the page by me, but you can answer to me also. Best greetings. Matthias Hartung, Germany http://home.t-online.de/home/AEH.Matthias.Hartung/karbsuche.htm ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to dragonflies-unsubscribe at listbot.com From rworth at oda.state.or.us Fri Apr 6 18:47:46 2001 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:47:46 -0700 Subject: Moth photos coming! In-Reply-To: <001d01c0bee2$786bf040$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> References: <001d01c0bee2$786bf040$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: Hey Ron, Are those new Lacinipolia described from the east or the west? Curious if we have some new western species. Cheers, Rich >Good news. I have an appointment to get with Joe after dinner to get those >moth type photos up on the web site. They should be up by 10 pm eastern >time USA. ( www.tils-ttr.org photo library) >Ron > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Apr 6 19:11:55 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 19:11:55 -0400 Subject: Moth photos coming! References: <001d01c0bee2$786bf040$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <000401c0beee$f9865c40$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> These are from the west (CA / AZ). They have been known for some time just not described per the code. Paper was by Selman / Leuschner (TTR 2:8 - the first page of which can be accesses at www.tils-ttr.org under "Taxonomic Report" section). Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Worth" To: "Ron Gatrelle" Cc: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: Re: Moth photos coming! > Hey Ron, > Are those new Lacinipolia described from the east or the west? > Curious if we have some new western species. > Cheers, Rich > > >Good news. I have an appointment to get with Joe after dinner to get those > >moth type photos up on the web site. They should be up by 10 pm eastern > >time USA. ( www.tils-ttr.org photo library) > >Ron > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > Richard A. Worth > Oregon Department of Agriculture > Plant Division > rworth at oda.state.or.us > (503) 986-6461 > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From ppttgg1 at aol.com Fri Apr 6 19:40:55 2001 From: ppttgg1 at aol.com (Ppttgg1) Date: 06 Apr 2001 23:40:55 GMT Subject: looking for moth ID Message-ID: <20010406194055.25530.00002132@ng-mf1.aol.com> Hello. My name is Perry and my wife and I are looking for someone who may know what we saw on our windows today and since I stumbled on your site, I'm giving this a shot. It may be common, but since we've never seen it perhaps you can help us. We live in New York and they appeared to be just moths on our door until we noticed they had fur around their necks, almost like a lion's mane. It was so thick it was even blowing in the breeze. They also had two small white spots (not round) on their wings. Any information you could give us would be appreciated. Thanks for your help, Perry ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Apr 6 20:47:41 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:47:41 -0400 Subject: WEB postponed Message-ID: <000901c0befd$dc1d87a0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Joe's wife (my daughter - his warden) just cancelled our planned TILS web update for tonight. So Joe and I have rescheduled for tomorrow about 1pm eastern time USA. You're always welcome to visit the TILS site - but if you were planning to catch the nine new Lacinipolia moths - don't waste your time tonight as they will not be up yet. Sorry. Try tomorrow afternoon or evening Ron :-) postponed ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From viceroy at gate.net Sat Apr 7 07:45:45 2001 From: viceroy at gate.net (Anne Kilmer) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 07:45:45 -0400 Subject: Who can help on some insects (fwd) References: Message-ID: <3ACEFDE9.2916E30A@gate.net> Those are the funkiest caterpillars I ever did see. They look like tarantulas with attitude, and I wouldn't go near them. Kafer is, indeed beetle, and the last bug is an anolis lizard of some sort, I think. Or mybe a gecko. The shoulders are funny-looking. Not that this wasn't obvious to everybody ... but in case any reptile fans passed it up, now's your chance. Anne Kilmer South Florida Joshua Stuart Rose wrote: > > Howdy Leppers, > > The forwarded message below came to the odonates list, but most of the > creatures Matthias wants identified appear to be moth caterpillars (plus > a few mosquitoes), so I figure this list is a better place for it. All > are pretty spectacular, especially the scaly thing at the bottom of the > page that I'm not even sure is a caterpillar; the text mentions > Weichkafers, which I think is some kind of beetle... If anyone has a > clue, please e-mail the address on the page (though I wouldn't mind > hearing the names of these incredible critters either). > > Cheers, > > Josh > > Joshua S. Rose > Duke University > Department of Biology (Zoology, R.I.P.) > > jsr6 at acpub.duke.edu > http://www.duke.edu/~jsr6/ > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 00:09:55 +0200 > From: Matthias Hartung > To: dragonflies at listbot.com > Subject: Who can help on some insects > > Odonata - http://www.listbot.com/cgi-bin/subscriber > > Hi all, > a friend has ask me to help on some animals incl. insects from Borneo > and other regions. This list is written in german, but the pictures are > all from animals unknown for us. Perhaps anyone an help. Please answer, > the email adress is included in the page by me, but you can answer to me > also. > Best greetings. > Matthias Hartung, Germany > > http://home.t-online.de/home/AEH.Matthias.Hartung/karbsuche.htm > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, write to dragonflies-unsubscribe at listbot.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From halhed at hei.ca Sat Apr 7 10:57:32 2001 From: halhed at hei.ca (Basil R. Halhed) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 14:57:32 GMT Subject: Beware: http://www.tils-ttr.org Photo Library! Message-ID: [This followup was posted to sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera and a copy was sent to the cited author.] Hello all, At the captioned web site, apparently the music player used and/or the music or ??? consistently crashes my usually bullet-proof Windows NT 4.0 SP6a server system running Internet Explorer V5.00. It's the first, second... time in many a month that I have had the NT blue screen of death, and repeatedly, at that. The only recovery is a full power down. Also, the blue screen listing shows the NT FAT32 file system as the second to last thing accessed before my system shuts down. It could, therefore, be a virus imbedded in the web site and one of my virus programs is taking extreme action. Take care. But the photos are great! -- = = = = = Basil Halhed President & Principal Consultant Halhed Enterprises Inc. http://www.hei.ca/ b_halhed at hei.ca ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Sat Apr 7 15:45:19 2001 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 12:45:19 -0700 Subject: Who can help on some insects (fwd) Message-ID: The larvae are two (maybe three) species of Phobetron (Limacododae), the first one is probably P. hipparchia The mosquito is a common one, and I simply can't recall the name - I think it may be something like Haemagogus. The larviform beetle appears to be a wingless female Drilid. Peace, Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sat Apr 7 16:30:36 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 16:30:36 -0400 Subject: virus alarm - NOT Message-ID: <007501c0bfa1$9aec6f40$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> I am sure Halhed was well intentioned in posting a "warning" on www.tils-ttr.org, however this was a big time FALSE ALARM -- akin to yelling fire in the theater. Joe (our web master) was shocked at this post. He will be sending me an "official" note to pass on to this group. Joe is not some amaeteur who does web "bells and whistles" for his buddies on the side. He is an expert computer technician who works for a major major company and makes big time bucks to handle their world wide problems with software, hardware, virus, network troubleshooting etc. Preventing, finding and fixing computer related problems is his CAREER. There is NOTHING wrong with the www.tils-ttr.org site. Those who have problems at this site are totally based within their own lack of knowledge, and/or old/inadequate computers/systems/settings unable to handle today's web sites etc. That said. The Lacinipolia section of the www.tils-ttr.org should be up momentarily. Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sat Apr 7 19:09:28 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 19:09:28 -0400 Subject: (Butterfly) C. ismeria female posted Message-ID: <008101c0bfb7$cc00d1a0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> The moth type photos and their genitalia are finished but not yet loaded at www.tils-ttr.org photo library. They should be posted any time. However, the female of Chlosyne ismeria ismeria is now posted there. Ismeria was described from a very poor copy of a John Abbot drawing. The taxon was a mystery for over a century. I rediscovered this in Georgia and the paper on this is in The Taxonomic Report Vol. 1:2, 1998. The first page of this article is also posted on the web site under Taxonomic Report via the home page. There is also an article in the News section under News 3. where you can find a copy of the original painting (bottom of page one). The painted specimen on which this name is based was of a female. Note on the actual female specimen from coastal Louisiana that there is a complete row of marginal silver spots - a diagnostic feature of this subspecies. The ventral forewing of the painting and the specimen are the same. Note that the VFW painting has one extra vein at the outer margin (making one spot into a fictitious two). This remains a very rare species is collections known from only three males at the type locality upper coastal Georgia - a few from the panhandle of Florida and coastal Louisiana. Some taxonomists have felt the new combination of Chlosyne ismeria nycteis for the common eastern US subspecies is destabilizing. According to the ICZN there appears to be two options. (If you want the code citation I can look it up for you.) The other option is Chlosyne nycteis ismeria. BUT this is only if certain conditions are met. I do not see these as having been met. So C. ismeria nycteis is correct by me. (My friend Don Lafontaine likes the other.) Either way, the biological entities (ismeria and nycteis) are good subspecies. Ron Gatrelle ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Leptraps at aol.com Sun Apr 8 18:06:01 2001 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 18:06:01 EDT Subject: Field Guide Brochure Message-ID: I recently received a brochure for the" Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois." The book is very similar in style to "Michigan Butterflies & Skippers." I am currently the Newsletter Editor of the Society of Kentucky Lepidopterists, as I was preparing the Book Announcement for the newsletter I noticed something that greatly disturbed me. Int the Brochure heading was the following FIELD GUIDE TO BUTTERFLIES OF ILLINOIS A field guide to aid biologists, naturalist, land managers, law enforcement officials, and students in the identification of butterflies found in Illinois. This guide contains more than 300 color photographs of all species plus information on habitats, natural history, and distribution> What disturbed me was the need of "law enforcement Officials" to have this book! Did the authors think that law enforcement officials need to be able to identify all the butterflies that are found in Illinois? Will this help them to prevent crimes! Or, does Illinois have endangered species and this book will help them to identify butterflies that a collector may have in their position? I mentioned this to a non lepidopterists friend of mind, his comment, "Essential Reading for every Chicago Cop! " Any comments, or did I miss something when I read the brochure! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010408/d48c45de/attachment.html From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Mon Apr 9 01:15:26 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 01:15:26 -0400 Subject: Field Guide Brochure References: Message-ID: <004b01c0c0b4$16cdb480$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Leroy Who and why are the questions that come to my mind. Your quote below seems to tell us why this book was written. Now who wrote it? The who may tell us even more about the why. The words that are not mentioned in the why - bother me as much as the "law" mentioned. Biologists are not lepidopterists, naturalists are not lepidopterists, land managers are not lepidopterists, law enforcement and students are not lepidopterists. I define lepidopterists here as collectors, watchers, and scientific specialists in leps. I am not saying these others should not be mentioned - I am saying why does it not first and foremost say it is for amaeteur and professional lepidopterists (collectors and watchers). This seems openly hostile to me to collecting, and even watching. Is there a section on how to start a collection? A section on watching? It does disturb me that so many have a butterfly political agenda today that is anti the traditional lepidopterist. In other words, the great butterfly Satan is not the bulldozer or pesticide it is lepidopterists. With that attitude being put out, the Lepidopterists' Society might as well call itself the Society for the Elimination of butterflies. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: Leptraps at aol.com To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:06 PM Subject: RE: Field Guide Brochure I recently received a brochure for the" Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois." The book is very similar in style to "Michigan Butterflies & Skippers." I am currently the Newsletter Editor of the Society of Kentucky Lepidopterists, as I was preparing the Book Announcement for the newsletter I noticed something that greatly disturbed me. Int the Brochure heading was the following FIELD GUIDE TO BUTTERFLIES OF ILLINOIS A field guide to aid biologists, naturalist, land managers, law enforcement officials, and students in the identification of butterflies found in Illinois. This guide contains more than 300 color photographs of all species plus information on habitats, natural history, and distribution> What disturbed me was the need of "law enforcement Officials" to have this book! Did the authors think that law enforcement officials need to be able to identify all the butterflies that are found in Illinois? Will this help them to prevent crimes! Or, does Illinois have endangered species and this book will help them to identify butterflies that a collector may have in their position? I mentioned this to a non lepidopterists friend of mind, his comment, "Essential Reading for every Chicago Cop! " Any comments, or did I miss something when I read the brochure! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010409/9d11d0c4/attachment.html From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Mon Apr 9 01:48:52 2001 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 21:48:52 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Field Guide Brochure Message-ID: There is a good chance that the odd brochure for the Illinois field guide was written by one misinformed person at the publisher--and bears little relation to the book itself. Withold judgement until you see the book... Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Mon Apr 9 02:15:09 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 02:15:09 -0400 Subject: Picacho, Imperial Co. - 3/7/01 Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D03B1E68F@hqmail.gensym.com> More rain in southern California - what a trip. The storm that blew in from the ocean on Saturday was pretty solid. I had little hope of driving out from under it. The forecast was dim for even Las Vegas, NV. Well - with a day at home with the children and little of interest on the tube, what better way to spend the day then to drive like a bat outta hell towards the next days sunrise. We actually started to see sunshine when we hit Imperial county. The Vanessa cardui were plentiful - about 20 a minute across Interstate 8. We kept driving, and about ran out of gas when we got to the Imperial Dunes recreational area. Not having either a quad or a dune buggy handy, we kept driving to Winterhaven. Sounds like a place to go skiing. Not. Pretty nice place to avoid shoveling, however. From MWalker at gensym.com Mon Apr 9 03:05:58 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 03:05:58 -0400 Subject: Fences Suck Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D03B1E691@hqmail.gensym.com> You know, I'll be looking forward to life without fences. There' s just nothing at all good about a fence. Having only been a resident here in Oceanside for 6 months, I was very upset to find a new fence being built in the Carlsbad Highlands. They have the large fence already caging the area where the gnatcatchers supposedly live. Now they're erecting a fence on top of the volcanic plug which will divide the whole area - for what reason I have no idea. What I do know is that fences suck. Yeah, I know - parking lots are worse. My future world will be void of these as well. We had a break in the weather today (Sunday, April 8, 2001) - and it looks like it will be for just a day (more rain in the forecast tomorrow). The wind is cold - but the sun warmed things up - and there were actually lots of bugs flying today. There was an explosion of Coenenympha tullia california (California Ringlet). The spring leps were still on the wing - although looking a bit tired and ready for decay. Apodemia mormo virguilti was more common than I've seen it so far this year. The wildflowers were just incredible. There are seas of California Poppy everywhere. I could see the ocean, and ignoring the still-empty fenceposts that I had to climb through, I convinced myself I was in butterfly heaven. No sense in ruining a perfectly good dream. today's list: Papilio zelicaon (Anise Swallowtail) Pontia protodice (Checkered White) Anthocharis sara (Sara Orangetip) Callophrys affinis (Bramble Hairstreak) Callophrys augustinus (Brown Elfin) Strymon melinus (Gray Hairstreak) Glaucopsyche lygdamus (Silvery Blue) Apodemia mormo virgulti (Mormon Metalmark) Vanessa cardui (Painted Lady) Vanessa annabella (West Coast Lady) Vanessa atalanta (Red Admiral) Coenonympha tullia california (California Ringlet) Mark Walker Oceanside, CA ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Lawrence_Turner at msn.com Mon Apr 9 07:58:53 2001 From: Lawrence_Turner at msn.com (Lawrence Turner) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 04:58:53 -0700 Subject: Elachista Message-ID: In Monterey County, California, I've raised several different species of Elachista from various grasses and sedges. The most recent( a few days ago) is a very small dark species with two complete whitish-blue bands across each wing, and which utilizes Festuca californica. Others are as follows: Elachista marachella? from native and non-native Agrostis species, and from non-native Holcus; Elachista cucullata? from several different species of Carex; Elachista indisella from Hierochloe occidentalis; a species from several different native Bromus; a species from Calamagrostis nutkaensis and a species from Elymus glaucus. In addition, Elachista thelmae was caught on the wing in a coastal prarie habitat. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010409/431e6c24/attachment.html From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon Apr 9 12:43:36 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 11:43:36 -0500 Subject: Field Guide Brochure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010409113922.00ac03c0@pop3.norton.antivirus> What you missed is the need for a field guide for the men-in-jodhpurs on their cycles behind the billboard. They are not only watching for speeding cars. Some of them are avid birders and a little recreational butterfly watching would help while away the hours on lonely country roads. .............Chris Durden At 06:06 PM 4/8/2001 -0400, you wrote: >I recently received a brochure for the" Field Guide to Butterflies of >Illinois." The book is very similar in style to "Michigan Butterflies & >Skippers." I am currently the Newsletter Editor of the Society of Kentucky >Lepidopterists, as I was preparing the Book Announcement for the newsletter I >noticed something that greatly disturbed me. Int the Brochure heading was the >following > >FIELD GUIDE TO BUTTERFLIES OF ILLINOIS > >A field guide to aid biologists, naturalist, land managers, law enforcement >officials, and students in the identification of butterflies found in >Illinois. This guide contains more than 300 color photographs of all species >plus information on habitats, natural history, and distribution> > >What disturbed me was the need of "law enforcement Officials" to have this >book! > >Did the authors think that law enforcement officials need to be able to >identify all the butterflies that are found in Illinois? Will this help them >to prevent crimes! Or, does Illinois have endangered species and this book >will help them to identify butterflies that a collector may have in their >position? I mentioned this to a non lepidopterists friend of mind, his >comment, "Essential Reading for every Chicago Cop! " > >Any comments, or did I miss something when I read the brochure! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010409/d9b379b0/attachment.html From ere11 at Ra.MsState.Edu Mon Apr 9 12:29:41 2001 From: ere11 at Ra.MsState.Edu (Emily R Echols) Date: 9 Apr 2001 16:29:41 GMT Subject: Salvador Dali Message-ID: <9aso1l$ep8$1@nntp.msstate.edu> Would anyone like to hear what Salvador Dali has to say about the sybolism inherent in the butterfly's lifecycle? ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Leptraps at aol.com Mon Apr 9 14:14:48 2001 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:14:48 EDT Subject: Field Guide Brochure Message-ID: <89.4fa02f6.2803561b@aol.com> The authors of "Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois are: John K. Bouseman Associate Professional Scientist at the Illinois Natural History Survey Jams G. Sternburg Professor Emerritus of Entomology University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaigne and an affiliate of the Illinois Natural History Survey. I do not have access to the lep, Soc. Membership List, however, I will take a look at who they are tonight. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rbenavid at hotmail.com Mon Apr 9 19:14:38 2001 From: rbenavid at hotmail.com (rudy benavides) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 19:14:38 Subject: Salvador Dali Message-ID: >Would anyone like to hear what Salvador Dali has to say about the >sybolism >inherent in the butterfly's lifecycle? Absolutely. This has got to be interesting! Rudy Benavides _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Mon Apr 9 15:41:04 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:41:04 -0400 Subject: Field Guide Brochure References: <89.4fa02f6.2803561b@aol.com> Message-ID: <002b01c0c12d$03dd55a0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> I find neither of these gentlemen in the Lepidopterists' Society members list. I find a "sign of the times" to have people writing regional butterfly book who are not Lep. Soc. members! Well, now we know why they did not say the book was for lepidopterists - and why it is for law enforcement. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see the Freudian slip here. Lepsters are not assumed either. I have been writing articles and books for over 25 years in several fields. I have worked with several editors - you don't "assume" your main target audience - you target them. Especially in advertising and marketing brochures. And you surely don't waste your money seeking those beyond the "normal" audience/interest. You don't try to sell cook books to "law enforcement". The sad fact is that in today's America "law enforcement" is a part of the leps scene - and it has nothing to do with any interest in Lepidoptera. They are not the bug police. They are policing the buggers. RG ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Field Guide Brochure > The authors of "Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois are: > > John K. Bouseman > Associate Professional Scientist at the Illinois Natural History Survey > > Jams G. Sternburg > Professor Emerritus of Entomology > University of Illinois, > Urbana-Champaigne and an affiliate of the Illinois Natural History Survey. > > I do not have access to the lep, Soc. Membership List, however, I will take a look at who they are tonight. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Mon Apr 9 18:15:38 2001 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:15:38 -0500 Subject: Field Guide Brochure Message-ID: <20010409.171556.-220445.5.mbpi@juno.com> Hi My guess would be that "law enforcement" pertains to Park Rangers and DNR officials, who often wear many hats in their everyday job requirements. Some naturalists and research biologists serve as envrionmental "cops" just in case they run across an illegal fisherman or camper, etc. It's all part of the territory. I doubt it has anything to do with "Chicago cops" having to know their bugs! M.B. Prondzinski On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 18:06:01 EDT Leptraps at aol.com writes: > I recently received a brochure for the" Field Guide to Butterflies of > > Illinois." The book is very similar in style to "Michigan > Butterflies & > Skippers." I am currently the Newsletter Editor of the Society of > Kentucky > Lepidopterists, as I was preparing the Book Announcement for the > newsletter I > noticed something that greatly disturbed me. Int the Brochure > heading was the > following > > FIELD GUIDE TO BUTTERFLIES OF ILLINOIS > > A field guide to aid biologists, naturalist, land managers, law > enforcement > officials, and students in the identification of butterflies found > in > Illinois. This guide contains more than 300 color photographs of all > species > plus information on habitats, natural history, and distribution> > > What disturbed me was the need of "law enforcement Officials" to > have this > book! > > Did the authors think that law enforcement officials need to be able > to > identify all the butterflies that are found in Illinois? Will this > help them > to prevent crimes! Or, does Illinois have endangered species and > this book > will help them to identify butterflies that a collector may have in > their > position? I mentioned this to a non lepidopterists friend of mind, > his > comment, "Essential Reading for every Chicago Cop! " > > Any comments, or did I miss something when I read the brochure! > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Mon Apr 9 20:54:09 2001 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:54:09 -0500 Subject: Picayune Personal Perspectives Message-ID: <20010409.195411.-220445.7.mbpi@juno.com> And if I may be so bold as to conjecture... You ALL really need to "get out more" and forget about shredding to pieces every "sign of evidence" that the world is against YOU, when the majority of TV/Movie addicts without any perceivable other interests don't even know that YOU "exist...." much less care. Consider yourself lucky that even ONE person finds your interest of merit... I rest my case, and yours. M.B. Prondzinski ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From birdcr at concentric.net Mon Apr 9 22:33:20 2001 From: birdcr at concentric.net (Randy Emmitt) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 22:33:20 -0400 Subject: Field Guide Brochure In-Reply-To: <89.4fa02f6.2803561b@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010409222211.0228b9f0@pop3.concentric.net> Folks, The term law enforcement Officials may imply Park Rangers and Game Wardens which would have very good use of this book. These two authors work with the Illinois Natural History Survey and I`m sure a good part of their data is from parks and other public places which knowledgeable Park Rangers/Naturalists would be of great benefit to them. Here in North Carolina we get most of our data in parks, gamelands and preserves and sometimes Rangers are recording data on what they see. I personally have been out in the field several times with 6 different Rangers butterflying here in NC. Once one had to chase a four wheeler that was in a place he shouldn`t have been. Our butterfly data is on the State Parks database online and is very useful. Randy Emmitt Rougemont, NC Randy Emmitt Photography http://www.rlephoto.com Carolina Butterfly Society webmaster http://www.carolinabutterflysociety.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon Apr 9 23:12:55 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 22:12:55 -0500 Subject: Picayune Personal Perspectives In-Reply-To: <20010409.195411.-220445.7.mbpi@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010409220933.00b08710@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mary, We used to get out more, before they started giving tickets for carrying a net in the "wrong" place. Where's the beef. There's the beef! No paranoia in that one. Just a loss of frontier, due to population explosion. ...............Chris Durden At 07:54 PM 4/9/2001 -0500, you wrote: >And if I may be so bold as to conjecture... > >You ALL really need to "get out more" and forget about shredding to >pieces every "sign of evidence" that the world is against YOU, when the >majority of TV/Movie addicts without any perceivable other interests >don't even know that YOU "exist...." much less care. Consider yourself >lucky that even ONE person finds your interest of merit... > >I rest my case, and yours. > >M.B. Prondzinski > > >_________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From ere11 at Ra.MsState.Edu Mon Apr 9 22:34:48 2001 From: ere11 at Ra.MsState.Edu (Emily R Echols) Date: 10 Apr 2001 02:34:48 GMT Subject: "Dali Greets the World" Message-ID: <9atrg8$dk3$1@nntp.msstate.edu> I found this quote in a book compiled and edited by Joseph Head and S.L. Cranston: [The following estract from an article "Dali Greets the World" by Ben Martin appeared in teh N.Y. Herald Tribune's magazine Today's Living for January 24, 1960, being a report of an interview with this famous artist:] [Dali stated]: "If you will study the entire series of cards [he had painted] you will find one theme runs through most almost all--the butterfly. The butterfly is not present only because it is in iteself a thing of beauty. It is present because to one of the greatest Spanish mystics, St. Theresa of Avila, the butterfly was the symbol of the soul. The ugly, ungainly caterpillar, our body, enters a form of the grave, the cocoon. Out of this death emerges the butterfly--beautiful, free, no longer earthbound. To me, as to St. Theresa, the butterfly is the soul of man." I have found nature to provide many examples and reflections of everlasting life and I am so happy to have come across this beautiful description of one of the most inspiring of metamorphoses. Thank you for your interest. --Emily ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Danfosha at aol.com Tue Apr 10 00:57:43 2001 From: Danfosha at aol.com (Danfosha at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:57:43 EDT Subject: Splicing the Sting Out of Bugs Message-ID: <3d.a1d7041.2803ecc7@aol.com> Splicing the Sting Out of Bugs Health: Genetic altering of insects and bacteria could prevent them from transmitting diseases such as malaria. But ultimate effects are unpredictable. By AARON ZITNER, LA Times Staff Writer 4/9/01 ATLANTA--Charles Beard's recipe for stopping the kissing bug, a tropical pest that kills 50,000 people each year, calls for ammonia, ink and guar gum. The result is an odorous goop that resembles the bug dung that, unpleasant as it may seem, happens to be a vital meal for young kissing bugs. But Beard adds something else to his faux feces that could prove to be even more noxious. It is genetically engineered bacteria that, once ingested, render the kissing bug unable to pass along its deadly disease http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/20010409/t000030344.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010410/c872fa01/attachment.html From Niklas.Wahlberg at zoologi.su.se Tue Apr 10 01:41:43 2001 From: Niklas.Wahlberg at zoologi.su.se (Niklas Wahlberg) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:41:43 +0200 Subject: "Dali Greets the World" In-Reply-To: <9atrg8$dk3$1@nntp.msstate.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010410074006.00b3b168@mail.it.su.se> At 02:34 2001.04.10 +0000, Emily R Echols wrote: >I found this quote in a book compiled and edited by Joseph Head and S.L. >Cranston: > [The following estract from an article "Dali Greets the > World" by Ben Martin appeared in teh N.Y. Herald Tribune's > magazine Today's Living for January 24, 1960, being a > report of an interview with this famous artist:] > > [Dali stated]: "If you will study the entire series of cards [he >had painted] you will find one theme runs through most almost all--the >butterfly. The butterfly is not present only because it is in iteself a >thing of beauty. It is present because to one of the greatest Spanish >mystics, St. Theresa of Avila, the butterfly was the symbol of the soul. >The ugly, ungainly caterpillar, our body, enters a form of the grave, the >cocoon. Out of this death emerges the butterfly--beautiful, free, no >longer earthbound. To me, as to St. Theresa, the butterfly is the soul of >man." I wonder what caterpillar Dali was thinking of? I find all butterfly and moth larvae quite beautiful! Cheers, Niklas Niklas Wahlberg Department of Zoology Stockholm University S-106 91 Stockholm SWEDEN Phone: +46 8 164047 Fax: +46 8 167715 http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/ihp/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Tue Apr 10 03:11:06 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:11:06 -0400 Subject: "Dali Greets the World" References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010410074006.00b3b168@mail.it.su.se> Message-ID: <008801c0c18d$696a5660$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Can I respond as both a minister and a lepster? The following is from a Christian perspective and it is in no way meant to offend, challenge or put down any of the many beliefs (and non beliefs) held my many of you who are not and do not want to be - Christians. It has always been very curious to me how Christians so often have and continue to use the allegory below - while God in His book (the Bible) makes no such connection. While the allegory surely esteems the adult butterfly as a thing of awe, mystery and freedom, it surely despises, belittles and almost vilifies the larvae (and ignores the moth). It also demeans the human body including sexuality. For centuries the "church" framed sexuality only as a means of reproduction and not intimate pleasure. I still find older married couples who feel guilty for enjoying each others bodies and almost "sinful" in varying positions etc. One such dear couple asked, "Are we wrong to still engage now that we can no longer have children?" Many Protestant and Catholic factions have at times so demeaned all of human function and pleasure (eating, drinking, smiling, jewelry, lovemaking, everything) that we were in this life esteemed as only "worms". While at first the allegory may look like a good thing, in actuality it is not. If an allegory praised one human ethnic group at the expense of demeaning another would any of us think of that as virtuous? If God does not have this view why should Christians (or any who revere the Old Testament in particular)? There is no doubt in my mind that God sees all the "creeping things" as beautiful and wondrously made. Perhaps, if people saw all these creatures, in all stages, as their creator does people would not be so apt to destroy them and the habitats in which we all live without regard. Nor would we destroy each other so easily either. No, God does not see the worm nor the man as a necessary evil state one has to endure on the way to perfection. The great expectation of the Christian faith is to be "Born again" - not in some next life - but this! And why would anyone see the cocoon as the death of the grave? Why not the bed of a protected child at home in its mothers arms. When I was little my preacher dad and mom taught me that God loved me and protected me when I slept. " He gave is angles charge over me." I would pray each night, "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to KEEP." The cocoon to God is not a lifeless grave - but a hallowed, warm place of safety at the most venerable stages of our lives. When we can not do for ourselves - God has made provision. We are safe in our cocoon. As the old Beach Boys song about "In my room." While man rejoices in only one stage, the adult butterfly morph, and despises the others, God sees the unique beauty and mystery in each step of the creatures (and our) journey. The resurrection of those who die is a big deal in the Bible. If the metamorphosis of the creature was such a good parallel God is smart enough to have used it - often. But He does not at all. Perhaps if we could all see the "worm" as God does - which is to see its uniqueness and value - there might be hope that one day we would see each other this way too. Equally unique. RG PS Fear, birthed from a lack of knowledge, is the dominate negative factor that produces both the creeping-thing and certain-people aversions, prejudices, and hate. I agree with Wahlberg - not mystics. I agree with God - not the saints of the dark ages. And why is it that only atheists remember the inquisitions conducted by the "saints", while their descendants only remember their poetry? I better quit or I'll get preachy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Niklas Wahlberg" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:41 AM Subject: Re: "Dali Greets the World" > At 02:34 2001.04.10 +0000, Emily R Echols wrote: >I found this quote in a book compiled and edited by Joseph Head and S.L. >Cranston: > [The following estract from an article "Dali Greets the > World" by Ben Martin appeared in teh N.Y. Herald Tribune's > magazine Today's Living for January 24, 1960, being a > report of an interview with this famous artist:] > > [Dali stated]: "If you will study the entire series of cards [he >had painted] you will find one theme runs through most almost all--the >butterfly. The butterfly is not present only because it is in iteself a >thing of beauty. It is present because to one of the greatest Spanish >mystics, St. Theresa of Avila, the butterfly was the symbol of the soul. >The ugly, ungainly caterpillar, our body, enters a form of the grave, the >cocoon. Out of this death emerges the butterfly--beautiful, free, no >longer earthbound. To me, as to St. Theresa, the butterfly is the soul of >man." I wonder what caterpillar Dali was thinking of? I find all butterfly and moth larvae quite beautiful! Cheers, Niklas > Niklas Wahlberg > Department of Zoology > Stockholm University > S-106 91 Stockholm > SWEDEN > > Phone: +46 8 164047 > Fax: +46 8 167715 > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jhimmel at connix.com Tue Apr 10 08:07:32 2001 From: jhimmel at connix.com (JH) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:07:32 -0400 Subject: "Dali..." and CT moths Message-ID: <005701c0c1b6$d3575ae0$bb63f6cd@pjhimmel> My favorite quote comes from Dali - "The only difference between me and an insane man is I'm not insane." Anyway, to give you a taste of the lep situation in my little corner of the world - It was in the mid 70's yesterday in Connecticut USA and figured it was way past time to get the light going. Fourteen species, one of them a new one for my yard, showed up. Some of them, though, have been around since March at my porchlight. Pyreferra hesperidago - abundant Psaphida resumens Morrisonia evicta Copipanolis styracis Lithophane hemina Lithophane petulca - new for my yard Orthosia hibisci Cladara atroliturata Phigalia titea - abundant! Phigalia strigataria Eupithecia sp. And at least four other tiny spp that I didn't get around to id-ing (or just couldn't). Mourning Cloaks all over and a Question Mark were also around yesterday. Other people are reporting Eastern Commas. Also my first orthoptera of the season - Tetris ornata (Ornate Grouse Locust) - but that's sort'a cheating since they overwinter as adults. Best - John ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: John Himmelman Killingworth, CT USA jhimmel at connix.com ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Visit my websites at: http://booksandnature.homestead.com/booksandnature.html www.ctamphibians.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -----Original Message----- From: Niklas Wahlberg To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:44 AM Subject: Re: "Dali Greets the World" >At 02:34 2001.04.10 +0000, Emily R Echols wrote: >>I found this quote in a book compiled and edited by Joseph Head and S.L. >>Cranston: >> [The following estract from an article "Dali Greets the >> World" by Ben Martin appeared in teh N.Y. Herald Tribune's >> magazine Today's Living for January 24, 1960, being a >> report of an interview with this famous artist:] >> >> [Dali stated]: "If you will study the entire series of cards [he >>had painted] you will find one theme runs through most almost all--the >>butterfly. The butterfly is not present only because it is in iteself a >>thing of beauty. It is present because to one of the greatest Spanish >>mystics, St. Theresa of Avila, the butterfly was the symbol of the soul. >>The ugly, ungainly caterpillar, our body, enters a form of the grave, the >>cocoon. Out of this death emerges the butterfly--beautiful, free, no >>longer earthbound. To me, as to St. Theresa, the butterfly is the soul of >>man." > >I wonder what caterpillar Dali was thinking of? I find all butterfly and >moth larvae quite beautiful! > >Cheers, >Niklas > > >Niklas Wahlberg >Department of Zoology >Stockholm University >S-106 91 Stockholm >SWEDEN > >Phone: +46 8 164047 >Fax: +46 8 167715 > >http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/ihp/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010410/34d98711/attachment.html From spruance at infinet.com Tue Apr 10 08:18:18 2001 From: spruance at infinet.com (Eric or Pat Metzler) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:18:18 -0400 Subject: Field Guide Brochure References: <89.4fa02f6.2803561b@aol.com>, <002b01c0c12d$03dd55a0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <3ad2f925$0$42869$f5f63664@news.tdin.com> In reply to leptraps and gatrelle: I know both of these fine men. I've known John for years, and I recently met the co-author, a photographer. Ken Philip said it best: wait til you see the book. The reactions, I've seen, to the brochure - a very fine brochure, without seeing the book are alarmest at the best and slanderous at worst. PhD trained and highly experienced entomologists need not be members of Lep Soc to write a fine book. Jumping on them for their statement naming one intended audience without seeing the book makes no sense to me. These statements are best saved for a review, which will occur in the next issue of The Ohio Lepidopterists, newsletter of The Ohio Lepidopterists. M.B. Prondzinski's observation about park rangers and naturalists is highly appropriate. It is finally warm in Columbus Ohio and leps are on the wing. Cheers to all, Eric Metzler "Ron Gatrelle" wrote in message news:002b01c0c12d$03dd55a0$9b0f1218 at gscrk1.sc.home.com... > I find neither of these gentlemen in the Lepidopterists' Society members > list. I find a "sign of the times" to have people writing regional > butterfly book who are not Lep. Soc. members! Well, now we know why they > did not say the book was for lepidopterists - and why it is for law > enforcement. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see the Freudian slip > here. > > Lepsters are not assumed either. I have been writing articles and books for > over 25 years in several fields. I have worked with several editors - you > don't "assume" your main target audience - you target them. Especially in > advertising and marketing brochures. And you surely don't waste your money > seeking those beyond the "normal" audience/interest. You don't try to sell > cook books to "law enforcement". The sad fact is that in today's America > "law enforcement" is a part of the leps scene - and it has nothing to do > with any interest in Lepidoptera. They are not the bug police. They are > policing the buggers. > > RG > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: Field Guide Brochure > > > > The authors of "Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois are: > > > > John K. Bouseman > > Associate Professional Scientist at the Illinois Natural History Survey > > > > Jams G. Sternburg > > Professor Emerritus of Entomology > > University of Illinois, > > Urbana-Champaigne and an affiliate of the Illinois Natural History > Survey. > > > > I do not have access to the lep, Soc. Membership List, however, I will > take a look at who they are tonight. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rbenavid at hotmail.com Tue Apr 10 13:57:02 2001 From: rbenavid at hotmail.com (rudy benavides) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:57:02 Subject: "Dali Greets the World" Message-ID: Dear List, Many years ago there was an interview with Salvador Dali in which he discussed his life and a few of his works. About the meaning of his paintings, I only remember that I understood very little of what he said. The discussion was based around deeply rooted mental issues. I came away believing that the symbolism expressed by surrealists is often just that, an expression of deep seated psychological struggles. The details, like the larvae, pupae, etc., are just a convenient means for describing a particular problem (possibly an excessive fear of death, etc.), which in my opinion, one should not interpret too literally. But then, as with most art, we are free to interpret as we wish. Interestingly, he used insects in some of his works. Rudy Benavides Maryland --------------------------------------- >Reply-To: Niklas.Wahlberg at zoologi.su.se >To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu >Subject: Re: "Dali Greets the World" >Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:41:43 +0200 > >At 02:34 2001.04.10 +0000, Emily R Echols wrote: >>I found this quote in a book compiled and edited by Joseph Head and S.L. >>Cranston: >> [The following estract from an article "Dali Greets the >> World" by Ben Martin appeared in teh N.Y. Herald >>Tribune's >> magazine Today's Living for January 24, 1960, being a >> report of an interview with this famous artist:] >> >> [Dali stated]: "If you will study the entire series of cards [he >>had painted] you will find one theme runs through most almost all--the >>butterfly. The butterfly is not present only because it is in iteself a >>thing of beauty. It is present because to one of the greatest Spanish >>mystics, St. Theresa of Avila, the butterfly was the symbol of the soul. >>The ugly, ungainly caterpillar, our body, enters a form of the grave, the >>cocoon. Out of this death emerges the butterfly--beautiful, free, no >>longer earthbound. To me, as to St. Theresa, the butterfly is the soul of >>man." > >I wonder what caterpillar Dali was thinking of? I find all butterfly and >moth larvae quite beautiful! > >Cheers, >Niklas > > >Niklas Wahlberg >Department of Zoology >Stockholm University >S-106 91 Stockholm >SWEDEN > >Phone: +46 8 164047 >Fax: +46 8 167715 > >http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/ihp/ > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From acynor at fullerton.edu Tue Apr 10 12:17:30 2001 From: acynor at fullerton.edu (Tony Cynor) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:17:30 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: [Caterpillar] Digest Number 234] Message-ID: <3AD3321A.9EF3503C@fullerton.edu> Hi Everyone: An interesting item for discussion? Adult life span of P. glaucus. 3 days or three + weeks. See reference for gist of the discussion. Tony Cynor -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: EdithEllenSmith at aol.com Subject: Re: [Caterpillar] Digest Number 234 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:13:04 EDT Size: 3623 Url: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010410/cc6fbfd5/attachment.mht From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Tue Apr 10 12:25:29 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:25:29 -0400 Subject: Field Guide Brochure References: <89.4fa02f6.2803561b@aol.com>, <002b01c0c12d$03dd55a0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3ad2f925$0$42869$f5f63664@news.tdin.com> Message-ID: <00c901c0c1da$dc21ae40$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Eric's post below is a needed input. The thing others need to "understand" is that there are quite a few (paranoid?) people like myself who, for varying reasons, are very leery of "law enforcement" when it comes to leps. I too have been in the field with several wildlife personnel. In fact I conducted a workshop for several top managers with the Forest Service and F&W last year from the southeast US area. Class room in the morning and field trip in the afternoon. I have also been subpoenaed by F&W several years ago and had specimens confiscated I had purchased from John Kimner. That was not a pleasant experience. I know the difference between rangers, managers and true law enforcement agents. My experience was heaven compared to some I know of. The agent who I dealt with was very considerate (he made appointments to come by, allowed me to make an inventory list, gave me a few extra weeks when my mother broke her hip in the middle of all that). I had done nothing wrong. My understanding was that Kimner had the appropriate permits for the Mexican material he was collecting for, among many other professional researchers and institutions, the Smithsonian. I know of others at that time - who were not the "criminals" AND had NO specimens - only correspondence - who were confronted at work, without warning, and told they had to leave the classroom or medical office immediately or be arrested. THIS IS TRAUMATIC. I told "my" agent here of one agent (in Florida) who had done this to a party I knew there . The AGENT here said he knew this other agent and that the guy was a real "Rambo type" and said he had no business doing this the way he did. The agent here then proceed to tell me of a "bust" this guy made with some duck hunters. Wildlife laws need to be enforced. But sometimes some of you should ask yourselves why are some very reputable lepidopterists so knee jerky about "law enforcement" - are they just paranoid or are there things they know of or have experience that has caused them to be so easily set off on this subject. I for one need to be reassured by posts like Eric's. But you know what I am still not convinced. It is very traumatic for a law abiding person to have someone with a GUN on their hip come to your home - even by appointment - to question you, present you with Federal subpoena papers etc. No matter how much they tell you you are not in trouble and this is just legal formality - it is scary. Do you all not cringe at the thought of an IRS audit? Yes, tax laws need to be enforced too. But have innocent people lost "everything" due to overzealous or Rambo IRS agents? ABSOLUTELY. That is why Congress stepped in to put some checks back into that "law enforcement" Do you not immediately look down at the speedometer when you see a police car - even if you are an off duty police officer? Have you ever heard of any "law enforcement" persons who are crooked? Did Richard Nixon break the law? Judges? And one last thought. Having a PhD does not mean one no longer needs the Journal of the Lepidopterists Society. I would think the opposite would be true. I am glad I know both Leroy and Eric. We're cool. Eric has the advantage of also knowing the authors. I agree with Eric that we ( I ) have been "alarmist" on this. The question still remains - why? Most dogs don't bite but if you have ever been bitten by one you will always look at dogs a less trusting than those persons who have not. Thanks for the post Eric, it helps temper guilt by association. Being addicted, I will buy the book anyway. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric or Pat Metzler" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Field Guide Brochure > In reply to leptraps and gatrelle: I know both of these fine men. I've > known John for years, and I recently met the co-author, a photographer. Ken > Philip said it best: wait til you see the book. > > The reactions, I've seen, to the brochure - a very fine brochure, without > seeing the book are alarmest at the best and slanderous at worst. PhD > trained and highly experienced entomologists need not be members of Lep Soc > to write a fine book. Jumping on them for their statement naming one > intended audience without seeing the book makes no sense to me. These > statements are best saved for a review, which will occur in the next issue > of The Ohio Lepidopterists, newsletter of The Ohio Lepidopterists. > > M.B. Prondzinski's observation about park rangers and naturalists is highly > appropriate. > > It is finally warm in Columbus Ohio and leps are on the wing. > > Cheers to all, > > Eric Metzler > > "Ron Gatrelle" wrote in message > news:002b01c0c12d$03dd55a0$9b0f1218 at gscrk1.sc.home.com... > > I find neither of these gentlemen in the Lepidopterists' Society members > > list. I find a "sign of the times" to have people writing regional > > butterfly book who are not Lep. Soc. members! Well, now we know why they > > did not say the book was for lepidopterists - and why it is for law > > enforcement. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see the Freudian slip > > here. > > > > Lepsters are not assumed either. I have been writing articles and books > for > > over 25 years in several fields. I have worked with several editors - you > > don't "assume" your main target audience - you target them. Especially in > > advertising and marketing brochures. And you surely don't waste your money > > seeking those beyond the "normal" audience/interest. You don't try to > sell > > cook books to "law enforcement". The sad fact is that in today's America > > "law enforcement" is a part of the leps scene - and it has nothing to do > > with any interest in Lepidoptera. They are not the bug police. They are > > policing the buggers. > > > > RG > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: ; > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:14 PM > > Subject: Re: Field Guide Brochure > > > > > > > The authors of "Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois are: > > > > > > John K. Bouseman > > > Associate Professional Scientist at the Illinois Natural History Survey > > > > > > Jams G. Sternburg > > > Professor Emerritus of Entomology > > > University of Illinois, > > > Urbana-Champaigne and an affiliate of the Illinois Natural History > > Survey. > > > > > > I do not have access to the lep, Soc. Membership List, however, I will > > take a look at who they are tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From ere11 at Ra.MsState.Edu Tue Apr 10 12:35:19 2001 From: ere11 at Ra.MsState.Edu (Emily R Echols) Date: 10 Apr 2001 16:35:19 GMT Subject: "Dali Greets the World" Message-ID: <9avco7$kg7$1@nntp.msstate.edu> Just as Rudy explained, this is just one of Dali's interpretations of life which uses the beautiful butterfly as a symbol. And if ever you see a Salvador Dali exhbit, you may find such intricate symbolism and interpretation of life genius, disturbing, and even crazy. Like everybody, he has dealt with many issues: being named after his deceased brother, his father marrying his Mother's sister, etc. Though I am not meaning to get into the reasons for Dali's interpretations (for truly, I did not know the man personally) I just think that it is possible for people to agree or disagree without being offended...because of course we are all very different and thus have each a different opinions on matters, but there is something that you can take and learn from everybody anf their point of view. I still find this quote interesting, and no, I am not endorsing it as my own feelings about the cycle of the butterfly. I am merely fascinated by everyone's interpretations, so I also thank you all for sharing with me yours as well. -Emily P.S. I too find butterfly cocoons very beautiful and exquisite, like jewels. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From monarch at saber.net Tue Apr 10 13:52:37 2001 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:52:37 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: [Caterpillar] Digest Number 234] References: <3AD3321A.9EF3503C@fullerton.edu> Message-ID: <3AD34865.27D3@saber.net> Tony Cynor wrote: > > Hi Everyone: > > An interesting item for discussion? Adult life span of P. glaucus. 3 > days or three + weeks. See reference for gist of the discussion. As a kid I tagged lots of male Anise Swallowtails in the San Francisco Bay Area. Since I lived near a hilltop, many of these seemed to live out their lives patrolling the hilltop. Thus it was easy to recapture the tagged butterflies. I remember them living at least 3 weeks. Ditto for western Tiger Swallowtails. The Tigers were not hilltoppers and were recaptured up to 6 miles away. Paul Cherubini, Placerville, CA ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us Tue Apr 10 15:22:58 2001 From: Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us (Mike Quinn) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:22:58 -0500 Subject: FW: What happened to our biggest moths? Message-ID: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD1979E@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> ---FWD From Entomo-L--- Date: Thu, 5 Apr 01 12:35:55 -0400 From: Jeff Boettner Subject: What happened to our biggest moths? I am coming on new to the Listserv group to help in the discussion of what happened to our biggest moths. I am the senior author of the Conservation Biology paper (Boettner et al. 00) which is being discussed. If anyone would like a copy of the article, please feel free to email me at: boettner at ent.umass.edu In answer to Mike Quinn, as to what is the current N. American distribution of Compsilura concinnata? You could draw a line from ME to MN to IL to VA and back to ME and you would hit the main hotspots for Compsilura, however it has been introduced to 30 states and 4 Provinces of Canada, so it will likely turn up in new places. It has been introduced to areas such as WA,OR, CA, AZ, NM, CO, FL, and NC but most of these states have few or no recoveries of the fly (or, likely, no one has looked). It took decades to try to establish the fly in VA, and I suspect it will do poorly in the south and south west, but it is firmly established in the Northeast and becoming more common in the Midwest. See Sanchez 1996 thesis ( Table 1.1) for a pretty complete list of releases and some recoveries. But these things are tough to map because of the lack of good data. For example in Minnesota: Compsilura was released at Cass Lake in 1937 for forest tent caterpillar control and "Minnesota 1971-1977" for gypsy moth control . I found one record of Compsilura in a museum labeled from "hawk moth larvae" Sept. 2, 1937 and then no other recoveries until 1992, 93, 95, 97 and 98. So Compsilura was likely breeding in 1937 but my guess is it didn't overwinter and the real recoveries are from the 70's releases or from moving in from WI in the 90's. My guess is that the real impact in MN will be felt during the next years now that it has been recovered from multiple counties. In MA there were huge releases done from 1906-1913, and a handful of recoveries by 1909, but Compsilura was widespread by 1919. Each state takes some detective work and there is always the chance someone just did their own releases, so official releases have to be taken with a grain of salt. . Sanchez, V. 1996. The genetic structure of northeastern populations of the tachinid Compsilura Concinnata (Meigen), an introduced parasitoid of exotic forest defoliators of North America. Ph. D. thesis. University of Massachusetts, Amherst ( see Table 1.1) In reply to Lisa Danko that "People generally do not care about non-target bugs and many would rather see all insects disappear ( except the monarch butterfly...). And reply to Peter Oboyski as to what can we do about it. Ironically, yesterday I got a nice letter from Paul Ehrlich at Stanford University and he sent me a copy of his " first publication ever" in the 1948 Lepidopterists' News Vol. II, no. 8, page 92. In the article he mentions that he raised " about 18 specimens of Danaus plexippus from larvae. Two specimens were parasitized and the two parasitic flies which hatched from the pupae were sent, along with the pupae to Dr. C. W. Sabrosky for identification. He identified them as Compsilura concinnata (Meigen)." But I am not very worried about the role of Compsilura in monarch population dynamics ( it has since been recovered by others as well). This is because although the fly is a generalist, I think it is primarily going to impact species in rich woods,( most of the scary records are for woods and edge species and not in fields). There have recently been a few papers on seeing silk moth feeding in wet habitats on purple loosestrife. This fits with our study. I suspect that these flies have to reestablish themselves each year in wet habitats (when the fly tries to pupate in the wet soil, it will likely drown). Could it be that cutting down more woods and making more farmland ( with thin windbreaks of host plants) in the Northeast would be the best thing for silk moths??? Too hard to tell from our work. We never intended this paper to stand on its own. The value will be finding places that silk moths are surviving and doing similar life tables to see how they make it...I suspect these areas will still have rich components of native flies and wasps as an indicator that the system is still healthy. Finding these places could be the best answer to Peters question of what can be done. Unlikely Compsilura will go away since it can live on such a wide range of hosts. I doubt that silk moths will vanish from the Northeast but they may have a tough time in the woods. What got me interested in looking at the impact on silk moths was that I couldn't figure out where the native flies went. I would put out lots of silk moths to find native flies and wasps and get mostly Compsilura. So I wanted to do a systematic study to see if this was true at all life stages ( and in fact, I did a poor job of this because I still missed good collections of the late instars, where I think Compsilura has the biggest impact.) With all three species, I found no native flies and one native wasp. Considering that I had been tracking 800 Cecropia moth larvae daily, this really blew me away. We have roughly 24 ( guessing) silk moths east of the Mississippi. These 24 moths help support 74 native parasitoids ( 54% tachinid flies, 24% Ichneumonid wasps, 22% Braconid and Chalcid wasps). In addition these 74 species in turn support 14 species of hyper parasitoids and at least one hyper-hyper parasitoid. The big fear with this fly and why it is important to me is the bigger question of what is this fly doing to our native parasitoids...are we increasing diversity by adding a 90th parasitoid or did we really pull the rug out from some of our natives and lose some major diversity in the process. It is said that for every species there are several parasites, so what does this mean for the other 160 nontarget leps (and associated parasitoids) that Compsilura impacts. I think Compsilura's impact will turn out to be much greater than the sum of its direct hosts... even if the host may not appear to be impacted. David Almquist wrote (but I am not quoting direct): that you can have a lot of mortality (99.8 %) and the population of the moth is still stable. This is true for the moth ( we never said the moth was going extinct...though lots of people have reported severe declines, and several species of silk moths are now state listed)...the big fear is for the native parasitoids. Do we want to replace 89 parasitoids with a handful. What happens when a hyper parasitoid learns to hunt Compsilura and we have lost the specialists? Will we have outbreaks of silk moths? All really tough questions. Coming back to Ehrlich, I heard him mention once, that the best way to explain biodiversity is to think of the earth as an airplane and the species as the rivets. Sure we can fly without a few species - rivets. But everyone will have a different idea of how many rivets we are willing to fly without. I guess I am one of those that prefers to fly with the bulk of the rivets intact. As Donald Winsor has promoted, we need "equal rights for parasites." George Boettner Entomology Dept. Fernald Hall UMASS-Amherst Amherst, MA 01003 413-545-1032 boettner at ent.umass.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us Tue Apr 10 15:59:56 2001 From: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us (Robert Dana) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:59:56 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Caterpillar] Digest Number 234] Message-ID: Contact Marc Scriber--he has done a lot of work with this animal. Robert ************************************************************* Robert Dana, Ph.D. MN DNR Natural Heritage and Nongame Research Program 500 Lafayette Rd, Box 25 St. Paul, MN 55155 651 297-2367 Email: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us ************************************************************* >>> Tony Cynor 4/10/01 11:17:30 AM >>> Hi Everyone: An interesting item for discussion? Adult life span of P. glaucus. 3 days or three + weeks. See reference for gist of the discussion. Tony Cynor ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Tue Apr 10 22:18:02 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:18:02 -0400 Subject: FW: What happened to our biggest moths? In-Reply-To: Mike Quinn "FW: What happened to our biggest moths?" (Apr 10, 2:22pm) References: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD1979E@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Message-ID: <1010410225552.ZM3630@Gochfeld> Question to Jeff Boetner or anyone else. How effective were the flies in controlling either Tent Caterpillars or Gypsy Moths. Tent Caterpillars here (NJ) seem to be influenced more by how cold the winter gets (not very cold in most recent years) and Gypsy Moths came and went and elicited heavy spraying suggesting the biological control was not very effective. M. Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Wed Apr 11 00:58:13 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:58:13 -0700 Subject: Field Guide Brochure References: <89.4fa02f6.2803561b@aol.com>, <002b01c0c12d$03dd55a0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com>, <3ad2f925$0$42869$f5f63664@news.tdin.com> Message-ID: <3AD3E465.E052E8B6@extremezone.com> It is true that one does not have to be a lepidopterist to write a book. However, the brochure's reference to 'law enforcement officials' (if this is correct) may indicate that the level of the book may not be very high. In other words, it may not have needed experienced Ph.D.'s in non-lepidoptera to put it together. Lepidoptera, I feel, are really unique in the insect world because of the tremendous use of highly visible wing pattern and coloration to identify species, and the tremendous amount of literature that exists for anyone, even a 16 year old, to put together a book for law enforcement officials. I think it is much more possible for someone to put together such a book who is not a lepidopterist, than it would be for a lepidpopterist to put together a book on, say, common and endangered species of mosquitoes (unless there are only a few mosquito species in Ohio. If there are, then choose another example). Of course, I have not seen the book, nor do I know the authors who I am sure are fine individuals. I am not slandering these individuals with this email message, nor is it my intent to do so. My only purpose here is to question some of the assumptions that seem to enter in judging the potential quality of a book, any book, before it is seen, and to present things from a different perspective. My arguments are purely academic. I am sure this book is of the highest quality at its intended level. Stan Eric or Pat Metzler wrote: > > In reply to leptraps and gatrelle: I know both of these fine men. I've > known John for years, and I recently met the co-author, a photographer. Ken > Philip said it best: wait til you see the book. > > The reactions, I've seen, to the brochure - a very fine brochure, without > seeing the book are alarmest at the best and slanderous at worst. PhD > trained and highly experienced entomologists need not be members of Lep Soc > to write a fine book. Jumping on them for their statement naming one > intended audience without seeing the book makes no sense to me. These > statements are best saved for a review, which will occur in the next issue > of The Ohio Lepidopterists, newsletter of The Ohio Lepidopterists. > > M.B. Prondzinski's observation about park rangers and naturalists is highly > appropriate. > > It is finally warm in Columbus Ohio and leps are on the wing. > > Cheers to all, > > Eric Metzler > > "Ron Gatrelle" wrote in message > news:002b01c0c12d$03dd55a0$9b0f1218 at gscrk1.sc.home.com... > > I find neither of these gentlemen in the Lepidopterists' Society members > > list. I find a "sign of the times" to have people writing regional > > butterfly book who are not Lep. Soc. members! Well, now we know why they > > did not say the book was for lepidopterists - and why it is for law > > enforcement. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see the Freudian slip > > here. > > > > Lepsters are not assumed either. I have been writing articles and books > for > > over 25 years in several fields. I have worked with several editors - you > > don't "assume" your main target audience - you target them. Especially in > > advertising and marketing brochures. And you surely don't waste your money > > seeking those beyond the "normal" audience/interest. You don't try to > sell > > cook books to "law enforcement". The sad fact is that in today's America > > "law enforcement" is a part of the leps scene - and it has nothing to do > > with any interest in Lepidoptera. They are not the bug police. They are > > policing the buggers. > > > > RG > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: ; > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:14 PM > > Subject: Re: Field Guide Brochure > > > > > > > The authors of "Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois are: > > > > > > John K. Bouseman > > > Associate Professional Scientist at the Illinois Natural History Survey > > > > > > Jams G. Sternburg > > > Professor Emerritus of Entomology > > > University of Illinois, > > > Urbana-Champaigne and an affiliate of the Illinois Natural History > > Survey. > > > > > > I do not have access to the lep, Soc. Membership List, however, I will > > take a look at who they are tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Niklas.Wahlberg at zoologi.su.se Wed Apr 11 03:51:18 2001 From: Niklas.Wahlberg at zoologi.su.se (Niklas Wahlberg) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:51:18 +0200 Subject: collecting in France? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010411094851.00b3b668@mail.it.su.se> Hello, I'm visiting southern France for two weeks (the Carcassone region) and am wondering whether France has any restrictions on collecting butterflies? Of course endangered and protected species are not allowed to be collected, but is France like Germany and Spain, where butterflies are not allowed to be touched without an official permit? Thanks for any information! Cheers, Niklas Niklas Wahlberg Department of Zoology Stockholm University S-106 91 Stockholm SWEDEN Phone: +46 8 164047 Fax: +46 8 167715 http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/ihp/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Wed Apr 11 06:38:31 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:38:31 -0400 Subject: Book Reviews In-Reply-To: "Stanley A. Gorodenski" "Re: Field Guide Brochure" (Apr 10, 9:58pm) References: <89.4fa02f6.2803561b@aol.com> <002b01c0c12d$03dd55a0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3ad2f925$0$42869$f5f63664@news.tdin.com> <3AD3E465.E052E8B6@extremezone.com> Message-ID: <1010411063834.ZM15494@Gochfeld> I occasionally get butterfly books to review for some journals. It never occurred to me to post copies of the review to the leps-list. However, since there have been many reviews of a field guide that no one has seen yet, maybe it would be reasonable for those of us who review books to share the reviews with the list. M. Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jeroen.mentens at student.kuleuven.ac.be Wed Apr 11 06:53:33 2001 From: jeroen.mentens at student.kuleuven.ac.be (Jeroen Mentens) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:53:33 +0200 Subject: collecting in France? References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010411094851.00b3b668@mail.it.su.se> Message-ID: <3AD437AD.5C2AF782@student.kuleuven.ac.be> Niklas Wahlberg wrote: > > Hello, > I'm visiting southern France for two weeks (the Carcassone region) and > am wondering whether France has any restrictions on collecting butterflies? > Of course endangered and protected species are not allowed to be collected, > but is France like Germany and Spain, where butterflies are not allowed to > be touched without an official permit? Thanks for any information! There's absolutely no restriction on taking photographs! ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mtyner4 at home.com Wed Apr 11 08:04:25 2001 From: mtyner4 at home.com (mtyner4) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:04:25 -0500 Subject: Field Guide to Butterflies Of Illinois Message-ID: I can no longer bear the ignorance and ?high platitudes? of the personally and self-proclaimed perfectionists who have chosen to exude such picayune diatribe about a book they have not seen and probably won?t even look at. Get off your high faluting (*@&$^$*#&^ and go buy the book and then review it rationally. Nothing is more disgusting than to read the crap you have spread because a publisher promotes this book using words that many of you find to represent that which is bad. No wonder the rest of the world, especially the youth, displays such disrespect for LAW ENFORCEMENT. They have their job and you should have yours. All should get it together and try to get along for the good of all. I have heard too much about irresponsible import of invasives in all areas and the likewise irresponsible trade in endangered species to believe that there is not some justification for LAW ENFORCEMENT to be leery of people who descend on an area and get resentful of being questioned about their activities. If there were not people doing the illegal then this would not happen. Society gave police their authority?now respect it. How about growing up and acting like the distinguished and educated individuals you should be. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010411/6a4481f4/attachment.html From Niklas.Wahlberg at zoologi.su.se Wed Apr 11 08:41:31 2001 From: Niklas.Wahlberg at zoologi.su.se (Niklas Wahlberg) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:41:31 +0200 Subject: collecting in France? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010411144121.00b6acd8@mail.it.su.se> At 12:53 2001.04.11 +0200, you wrote: >Niklas Wahlberg wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I'm visiting southern France for two weeks (the Carcassone region) and > > am wondering whether France has any restrictions on collecting butterflies? > > Of course endangered and protected species are not allowed to be collected, > > but is France like Germany and Spain, where butterflies are not allowed to > > be touched without an official permit? Thanks for any information! > >There's absolutely no restriction on taking photographs! Can't extract DNA from photos! Cheers, Niklas Niklas Wahlberg Department of Zoology Stockholm University S-106 91 Stockholm SWEDEN Phone: +46 8 164047 Fax: +46 8 167715 http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/ihp/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From 1_iron at msn.com Wed Apr 11 09:10:38 2001 From: 1_iron at msn.com (JT) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:10:38 -0400 Subject: Field Guide to Butterflies Of Illinois References: Message-ID: <001b01c0c288$d5e3f0c0$8e890a3f@1swch01> Hey. Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you REALLY feel. Jim Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: mtyner4 To: Leps-L Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:04 AM Subject: Field Guide to Butterflies Of Illinois I can no longer bear the ignorance and "high platitudes" of the personally and self-proclaimed perfectionists who have chosen to exude such picayune diatribe about a book they have not seen and probably won't even look at. Get off your high faluting (*@&$^$*#&^ and go buy the book and then review it rationally. Nothing is more disgusting than to read the crap you have spread because a publisher promotes this book using words that many of you find to represent that which is bad. No wonder the rest of the world, especially the youth, displays such disrespect for LAW ENFORCEMENT. They have their job and you should have yours. All should get it together and try to get along for the good of all. I have heard too much about irresponsible import of invasives in all areas and the likewise irresponsible trade in endangered species to believe that there is not some justification for LAW ENFORCEMENT to be leery of people who descend on an area and get resentful of being questioned about their activities. If there were not people doing the illegal then this would not happen. Society gave police their authority-now respect it. How about growing up and acting like the distinguished and educated individuals you should be. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010411/1daa4d61/attachment.html From TiserG at mail01.dnr.state.wi.us Wed Apr 11 09:29:18 2001 From: TiserG at mail01.dnr.state.wi.us (Tiser, Gene M) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:29:18 -0500 Subject: Book Reviews Message-ID: A most excellent idea! Gene Tiser Education Coordinator NE Region Hdqtrs PO Box 10448 1125 N. Military Ave. Green Bay, WI 54307-0448 phone: (920) 492-5836 fax: (920) 492-5913 tiserg at dnr.state.wi.us > ---------- > From: Michael Gochfeld[SMTP:gochfeld at EOHSI.RUTGERS.EDU] > Reply To: gochfeld at EOHSI.RUTGERS.EDU > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:38 AM > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: Book Reviews > > I occasionally get butterfly books to review for some journals. It never > occurred to me to post copies of the review to the leps-list. However, > since there have been many reviews of a field guide that no one has seen > yet, maybe it would be reasonable for those of us who review books to > share the reviews with the list. > > M. Gochfeld > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From spm23 at cornell.edu Wed Apr 11 23:35:12 2001 From: spm23 at cornell.edu (Sean Patrick Mullen) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 23:35:12 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Greetings, I'm new to the list but I want to put out a general request. I'm a graduate student at Cornell University and I'm working on hybridization and reproductive isolation in North American Admiral butterflies (Limenitis) for my dissertation. At the moment, I am working on a population-level survey of mitochondrial DNA diversity in both the Viceroy (L. archippus) and the White Admiral/Red-Spotted Purple (L. arthemis arthemis/L. arthemis astyanax). As many of you know, these two species have very large geographic ranges...far larger than I can personally sample. As a general request, I would like to ask for voluntary donations of these two species from as many geographic portions of their ranges as possible. Ideal specimens will be preserved in ethanol or shipped cold. I have upstate New York covered *smile* and I'm going to do some collecting on the east coast this Spring. Therefore, specimens from the western populations will be particularly valuable to me. In addition, I am interested in obtaining a few specimens of Lorquin's (L. lorquini) and Wiedemeyer's (L. wiedemeyerii) Admirals for use in phylogenetic analyses. I apologize for the informality of this posting but it seemed to be the best way to reach a broad audience. If anyone is interested in helping out, I encourage them to contact me personally at spm23 at cornell.edu. All participants will be duly recognized in the acknowledgements of all publications for which there tissues are used. Thank you all for your time. Sincerely, Sean P. Mullen Graduate Research Assistant Dept. of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Corson Hall, Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010411/8d93e28e/attachment.html From Leptraps at aol.com Wed Apr 11 12:42:31 2001 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:42:31 EDT Subject: Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois Message-ID: <74.97316b7.2805e377@aol.com> I started this issue of "Law Enforcement Officials" several days ago. I asked the question because of the statement in the brochure for the "Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois." I received the brochure via snail mail with a request to announce the book in the Society of Kentucky Lepidopterists Newsletter (I am the Editor of the Newsletter) back in mid-December. The typed note enclosed was unsigned and the envelope had no return address but was post marked Champaign, IL. At first I did not pay attention to the lack of identification. I also ordered the book which I have yet to receive. When I read the brochure I was surprised by the reference to Law Enforcement Officials. I became curious about the reference, so I wrote both of the authors and the Illinois Natural History Survey at their Champaign, IL address for clarification. There has been no response to my inquirers. I was more curious as to what others might think of the reference. So I sent the message to this list. I never intended to offend anyone with my inquiry. The explanation of park rangers never entered my mind. I do not for some reason equate Park Rangers and Law Enforcement Officials as being one in the same. I equated Law Enforcement Official as the local police or sheriff's department. The reason being, when I collect in places where "park ranger" are employed, normally requires a permit. When I meet a park ranger, he knows who I am and what I am doing and he knows I have a permit because I check in at the park office first. He is usually friendly and inquisitive. When I am out in the boonnies running lights at night, it is usually the local sheriff deputy that I encounter, or the border patrol, or DEA, or ATF. My last encounters with Law enforcement: Jeff Slotten and I were near Brownsville, Texas, as we were about the leave at 2AM we encountered the Border Patrol. These guys were armed, guns, dogs, flak jackets (Jeff Slotten still is nervous over that encounter). The other was in the Fackahatchee Strand State Preserve in SW Florida (Yes I had a permit) with the DEA, and it too involved guns (They thought that we were lighting up Jane's Scenic Drive for a drug plane to land). These are what I considered Law Enforcement Officials. Although they were polite, having a gun pointed at you can be a little unnerving. However, it is their job. Most people in the places that I have encountered Law Enforcement Officials are places that most people are not at 2AM. And if they are, they are either moth collectors, and if they are not, they are usually armed. I only met one of the authors at a meeting many years ago and know nothing of them. Many people have written butterflies book and are not members of the Lepidopterists' Society. If my comments in my post were out of order, I apologize. It was the circumstances and the lack of response along with my curiosity that prompted the post. What have I learned? I need a flak jacket when posting on this list! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010411/879729a4/attachment.html From dominique.thierry at wanadoo.fr Wed Apr 11 13:41:12 2001 From: dominique.thierry at wanadoo.fr (dominique.thierry) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:41:12 +0200 Subject: collecting in France? References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010411094851.00b3b668@mail.it.su.se> Message-ID: <9b23pd$pcg$1@wanadoo.fr> You have no problem in France excepted in reserves or center part of the National Parcs Yours Dominique Dominique THIERRY IRFA - UCO 44 rue Rabelais 49000 Angers. Niklas Wahlberg a ?crit dans le message : 5.0.2.1.2.20010411094851.00b3b668 at mail.it.su.se... > Hello, > I'm visiting southern France for two weeks (the Carcassone region) and > am wondering whether France has any restrictions on collecting butterflies? > Of course endangered and protected species are not allowed to be collected, > but is France like Germany and Spain, where butterflies are not allowed to > be touched without an official permit? Thanks for any information! > > Cheers, > Niklas > > Niklas Wahlberg > Department of Zoology > Stockholm University > S-106 91 Stockholm > SWEDEN > > Phone: +46 8 164047 > Fax: +46 8 167715 > > http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/ihp/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From beebuzz at kiva.net Wed Apr 11 14:19:18 2001 From: beebuzz at kiva.net (Liz Day) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:19:18 -0500 Subject: Field Guide to Butterflies Of Illinois In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010411131823.00aa7c20@b.pop.kiva.net> >How about growing up and acting like the distinguished and educated >individuals you should be. How about signing your name to your post? Liz (feeling crabby) ------------------------------------------------------------- Liz Day Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA (40 N, ~86 W) USDA zone 5b. Winters ~20F, summers ~85F. Formerly temperate deciduous forest. daylight at kiva.net www.kiva.net/~daylight ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Wed Apr 11 15:42:06 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:42:06 -0400 Subject: message in bottle Message-ID: <002b01c0c2bf$7d960660$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Oh the agony, 80 to 90 degrees, beautiful skies, perfect days, trapped inside, 10 days with no lepping, feeling weak, need help, can't hold out much longer. Tiny hope, saw something fly by window, looked like a Cloudless Sulphur. RG ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rworth at oda.state.or.us Wed Apr 11 16:38:38 2001 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:38:38 -0700 Subject: message in bottle In-Reply-To: <002b01c0c2bf$7d960660$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> References: <002b01c0c2bf$7d960660$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: Ron, I'll put my agony against your agony any day. Sunny(I'm squinting), but only 55 deg.(deceptivly nice), also trapped inside, I lost count of the months with no lepping, cabin fever has led to other medical conditions like sensitivity to light, I tend to rust now, not tan; psych ailments - apathy toward work and general daydreaming about places to visit this summer to collect. Tiny hope, I saw something fly by my window and... nevermind, it was a crow. I've seen 1 P. rapae this year. Good news is it should be 61 and sunny by Sunday, so hopefully I'll come back with an actual field report. Rich >Oh the agony, 80 to 90 degrees, beautiful skies, perfect days, trapped >inside, 10 days with no lepping, feeling weak, need help, can't hold out >much longer. >Tiny hope, saw something fly by window, looked like a Cloudless Sulphur. >RG > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnjjk1 at aurora.uaf.edu Wed Apr 11 16:58:38 2001 From: fnjjk1 at aurora.uaf.edu (James J Kruse) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:58:38 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: First Sighting! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings! This is second hand, but there was a sighting of a "black fuzzy caterpillar" near the cross-country ski trail on the University of Alaska Fairbanks campus yesterday (April 10th) afternoon. We still have roughly 70% snow cover, but I obviously need to get out in the woods and tempt the bears with a bait line. Regards, James J. Kruse, Ph.D. Curator of Entomology University of Alaska Museum 907 Yukon Drive, PO Box 756960 Fairbanks, AK USA 99775-6960 Phone: 907.474.5579 Fax: 907.474.1987/5469 http://myprofile.cos.com/bugskinner http://www.uaf.edu/museum/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From cthomp1 at earthlink.net Wed Apr 11 16:44:53 2001 From: cthomp1 at earthlink.net (Clark) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:44:53 GMT Subject: The Insect Classifieds - over 1000 visitors per day Message-ID: <9n3B6.2283$cb6.226241@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> A free classified ad board dedicated to insect specimen traders. http://www.insectnet.com/cgi/classifieds/classifieds.cgi ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Wed Apr 11 18:50:30 2001 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:50:30 -0500 Subject: Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois Message-ID: <20010411.180233.-293115.3.mbpi@juno.com> I can't recall ever encountering any "border police" at the Illinois State line (!) At least your post brought out some "fresh perceptions" (in more ways than one...). Always interesting to hear from the "silent majority." All I can say is: with all the controversy this unseen book has generated... it had better be GREAT, or we native Illini will be relegated to the Lepidoptery Hall of Shame! M.B. Prondzinski On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:42:31 EDT Leptraps at aol.com writes: > I started this issue of "Law Enforcement Officials" several days ago. > I asked > the question because of the statement in the brochure for the "Field > Guide to > Butterflies of Illinois." I received the brochure via snail mail > with a > request to announce the book in the Society of Kentucky > Lepidopterists > Newsletter (I am the Editor of the Newsletter) back in mid-December. > The > typed note enclosed was unsigned and the envelope had no return > address but > was post marked Champaign, IL. At first I did not pay attention to > the lack > of identification. I also ordered the book which I have yet to > receive. > > When I read the brochure I was surprised by the reference to Law > Enforcement > Officials. I became curious about the reference, so I wrote both of > the > authors and the Illinois Natural History Survey at their Champaign, > IL > address for clarification. There has been no response to my > inquirers. > > I was more curious as to what others might think of the reference. > So I sent > the message to this list. > > I never intended to offend anyone with my inquiry. The explanation > of park > rangers never entered my mind. I do not for some reason equate Park > Rangers > and Law Enforcement Officials as being one in the same. I equated > Law > Enforcement Official as the local police or sheriff's department. > The reason > being, when I collect in places where "park ranger" are employed, > normally > requires a permit. When I meet a park ranger, he knows who I am and > what I am > doing and he knows I have a permit because I check in at the park > office > first. He is usually friendly and inquisitive. When I am out in the > boonnies > running lights at night, it is usually the local sheriff deputy that > I > encounter, or the border patrol, or DEA, or ATF. My last encounters > with Law > enforcement: Jeff Slotten and I were near Brownsville, Texas, as we > were > about the leave at 2AM we encountered the Border Patrol. These guys > were > armed, guns, dogs, flak jackets (Jeff Slotten still is nervous over > that > encounter). The other was in the Fackahatchee Strand State Preserve > in SW > Florida (Yes I had a permit) with the DEA, and it too involved guns > (They > thought that we were lighting up Jane's Scenic Drive for a drug > plane to > land). These are what I considered Law Enforcement Officials. > Although they > were polite, having a gun pointed at you can be a little unnerving. > However, > it is their job. Most people in the places that I have encountered > Law > Enforcement Officials are places that most people are not at 2AM. > And if they > are, they are either moth collectors, and if they are not, they are > usually > armed. > > I only met one of the authors at a meeting many years ago and know > nothing of > them. Many people have written butterflies book and are not members > of the > Lepidopterists' Society. If my comments in my post were out of > order, I > apologize. It was the circumstances and the lack of response along > with my > curiosity that prompted the post. > > What have I learned? I need a flak jacket when posting on this list! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From robert.beiriger at worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 12 00:03:48 2001 From: robert.beiriger at worldnet.att.net (robert beiriger) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:03:48 -0700 Subject: Subscribe Leps-l Message-ID: <001001c0c305$95536fe0$d41d2581@terib> Subscribe Leps-l Robert Beiriger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010411/080662ec/attachment.html From wengell at erie.net Wed Apr 11 20:47:54 2001 From: wengell at erie.net (William Engell) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:47:54 -0400 Subject: Field Guide to Butterflies Of Illinois References: Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C0C2C8.AE762540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, Mom, I'll never do that again, either. mtyner4 wrote in message ... =20 I can no longer bear the ignorance and =93high platitudes=94 of the = personally and self-proclaimed perfectionists who have chosen to exude = such picayune diatribe about a book they have not seen and probably = won=92t even look at. =20 Get off your high faluting (*@&$^$*#&^ and go buy the book and then = review it rationally. =20 Nothing is more disgusting than to read the crap you have spread = because a publisher promotes this book using words that many of you find = to represent that which is bad. No wonder the rest of the world, = especially the youth, displays such disrespect for LAW ENFORCEMENT. = They have their job and you should have yours. All should get it = together and try to get along for the good of all. =20 I have heard too much about irresponsible import of invasives in all = areas and the likewise irresponsible trade in endangered species to = believe that there is not some justification for LAW ENFORCEMENT to be = leery of people who descend on an area and get resentful of being = questioned about their activities. If there were not people doing the = illegal then this would not happen. Society gave police their = authority=97now respect it. =20 How about growing up and acting like the distinguished and educated = individuals you should be. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C0C2C8.AE762540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, Mom, I'll never = do that again,=20 either.
 
mtyner4 wrote in=20 message ...

 

I can no longer bear the = ignorance and=20 “high platitudes” of the personally and self-proclaimed=20 perfectionists who have chosen to exude such picayune diatribe about = a book=20 they have not seen and probably won’t even look=20 at.

 

Get off your high faluting=20 (*@&$^$*#&^ and go buy the book and then review it=20 rationally.

 

Nothing is more disgusting than = to read=20 the crap you have spread because a publisher promotes this book = using words=20 that many of you find to represent that which is bad.  No wonder the rest of the = world,=20 especially the youth, displays such disrespect for LAW = ENFORCEMENT.  They have their job and = you should=20 have yours.  All = should get it=20 together and try to get along for the good of=20 all.

 

I have heard too much about = irresponsible=20 import of invasives in all areas and the likewise irresponsible = trade in=20 endangered species to believe that there is not some justification = for LAW=20 ENFORCEMENT to be leery of people who descend on an area and get = resentful=20 of being questioned about their activities.  If there were not people = doing the=20 illegal then this would not happen. =20 Society gave police their authority—now respect=20 it.

 

How about growing up and acting = like the=20 distinguished and educated individuals you should=20 be.

 

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C0C2C8.AE762540-- ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Leptraps at aol.com Wed Apr 11 22:48:36 2001 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:48:36 EDT Subject: Law Enforcement Officials Message-ID: <27.13d12f95.28067184@aol.com> Let me explain "Law Enforcement Officials" as I understand the term and by my experience. I do not equate Park Rangers and National Forest Service Officers with Law Enforcement Officials. I do not ever remember Park Ranger or National Forest Service Officers carrying a gun. I do equate Game Wardens, US Fish & Wildlife Officers, and Fish & Game Officers with Law Enforcement. I remember a TV program as a child with Ranger Bob. He did not have a gun. I have had five encounters with Law Enforcement Officials that involved guns. And those guns were pointed at me! Have you ever look down the barrel of a gun!!!!!!! Better yet, have you ever looked down the barrel of several guns, several snarling dogs out in the middle of no where at 2AM after you hear the words, "keep your hands where I can see them." Now that's Law Enforcement Officials. And by the way. The DEA team that the late Jack Heinrich and I encountered in Fakahatchee, we had a previous encounter with on North Key Largo about 8 months earlier. I even had some of the agents business cards in my truck. After they recognized me we all had to laugh. They also drank all of Jack Heinrich's beer before they left. It was in late August and it was hot! ( I personally do not drink, not even beer, it never appealed to me, after all, I see what it does to moths!) So forgive me if I made an incorrect assumption. But I am still curious. Law Enforcement Officials, there is something there! Mmmmmmmmmmmmm! What else have I learned? If you have a flak jacket, wear the dam thing when your on this list!!!!!!!!!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010411/d079aba0/attachment.html From troy at troyb.com Wed Apr 11 23:31:02 2001 From: troy at troyb.com (Troy Bartlett) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 23:31:02 -0400 Subject: Recognize this caterpillar? Message-ID: <9b37ho$sme$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> Here's a caterpillar I found on Cayman Brac in the Cayman islands, just last week. I can't tell you what it's feeding on, but I can tell you the sap oozing from the plant ruined one of my shirts as I got photos. :) I'm sure I've seen photos of this before, and that someone will probably easily recognize it. It's gregarious, as there were lots of larvae on that single plant. -- Troy Bartlett mailto:troy at troyb.com http://www.troyb.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mazzeip at tin.it Thu Apr 12 03:48:52 2001 From: mazzeip at tin.it (Paolo Mazzei) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:48:52 +0100 Subject: Recognize this caterpillar? In-Reply-To: <9b37ho$sme$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <000801c0c325$0622bcc0$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> It's a Pseudosphinx tetrio. Paolo Mazzei mailto:mazzeip at tin.it Webmaster of "Moths and Butterflies of Europe" http://digilander.iol.it/leps/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From batchelor at dial.pipex.com Thu Apr 12 03:22:48 2001 From: batchelor at dial.pipex.com (Alan Batchelor) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:22:48 +0100 Subject: Cocoon identification? Message-ID: <3ad557bb$0$12244$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> I'd be grateful for suggestions as to the id of this cocoon. Too small for Saturnia pavonia? (which I've never seen on the wing in this area anyway). http://ds.dial.pipex.com/batchelor/cocoon.html Alan Batchelor ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From pierre.schmit at eurocontrol.fr Thu Apr 12 04:23:28 2001 From: pierre.schmit at eurocontrol.fr (Pierre SCHMIT) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:23:28 +0200 Subject: collecting in France? Message-ID: I do not agree entirely with what says Dominique.There are restrictions on collecting some species outside of parcs . In "Ile de France" , "Vall?e de la Durance " ... for example collecting of some species is restricted, even if somtime it could be difficult to apply the regulations . For "Carcassone region" ,you probably will get more accurate information on contacting the "Association Roussillonnaise d'entomologie" at :http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rare/ , rare at wanadoo.fr They probably could help you as well to find good spots . Regards, Pierre Schmit http://pierre.schmit.free.fr/ pierre.schmit at eurocontrol.fr -----Message d'origine----- De : dominique.thierry [mailto:dominique.thierry at wanadoo.fr] Envoy? : mercredi 11 avril 2001 19:41 ? : leps-l at lists.yale.edu Objet : Re: collecting in France? You have no problem in France excepted in reserves or center part of the National Parcs Yours Dominique Dominique THIERRY IRFA - UCO 44 rue Rabelais 49000 Angers. Niklas Wahlberg a ?crit dans le message : 5.0.2.1.2.20010411094851.00b3b668 at mail.it.su.se... > Hello, > I'm visiting southern France for two weeks (the Carcassone region) and > am wondering whether France has any restrictions on collecting butterflies? > Of course endangered and protected species are not allowed to be collected, > but is France like Germany and Spain, where butterflies are not allowed to > be touched without an official permit? Thanks for any information! > > Cheers, > Niklas > > Niklas Wahlberg > Department of Zoology > Stockholm University > S-106 91 Stockholm > SWEDEN > > Phone: +46 8 164047 > Fax: +46 8 167715 > > http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/ihp/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010412/a92109ac/attachment.html From Felix.Sperling at ualberta.ca Thu Apr 12 04:30:37 2001 From: Felix.Sperling at ualberta.ca (Felix Sperling) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 02:30:37 -0600 Subject: don't judge a book by its blurb Message-ID: Well, by a fine bit of luck I seem to be one of the first to look at an actual copy of the Butterflies of Illinois. I can't help but smile - this is obviously a very fine butterfly guide and in a thoroughly classical style. Try as I might, I couldn't find a single mention of law enforcement officers on the dust jacket or in the contents. On the other hand, the authors are professional entomologists, naturalists, and photographers of long experience. As for collecting, the cover states that it is based on "decades of collecting throughout the state by the authors". An inside section entitled "Collecting and Studying Butterflies" starts by saying that "Collecting can be a rewarding activity and is the best way to familiarize oneself with these insects. .. We encourage, therefore, the responsible collection of butterflies by knowledgeable amateurs ..." There are even good county-level distribution maps that make a clear distinction between published county records, museum specimen records, and the authors' sight records. Making these kinds of distinctions can't help but support the importance of collections. Each species is given a two page spread, with most of one page occupied by an equal mix of quite good photos of live specimens and, where, necessary, pinned specimens. I'll leave those who have a better knowledge of Illinois butterflies to comment on the details. There is no doubt, though - this book is worth getting if you have even a remote interest in Illinois butterflies. ... even if the flyer blurb seems to pander to police states. Felix Sperling ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From ghg3 at aol.com Thu Apr 12 05:29:28 2001 From: ghg3 at aol.com (GHG3) Date: 12 Apr 2001 09:29:28 GMT Subject: Cocoon identification? References: <3ad557bb$0$12244$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: <20010412052928.02775.00001869@ng-me1.aol.com> No idea on the cocoon, but the host looks like Rosemary! George Gifford ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mazzeip at tin.it Thu Apr 12 07:52:48 2001 From: mazzeip at tin.it (Paolo Mazzei) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:52:48 +0100 Subject: Cocoon identification? Message-ID: <000101c0c347$1950bd70$0b00000a@01.DYN_DOMAIN> Yes, I think it is too small for Saturnia pavonia: I am quite sure it is a Lasiocampidae (there's a picture of a cocoon of Lasiocampa quercus on http://digilander.iol.it/leps/), but it's hard to say which one... Paolo Mazzei mailto:mazzeip at tin.it Webmaster of "Moths and Butterflies of Europe" http://digilander.iol.it/leps/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From dominique.thierry at wanadoo.fr Thu Apr 12 08:00:31 2001 From: dominique.thierry at wanadoo.fr (dominique.thierry) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:00:31 +0200 Subject: collecting in France? References: Message-ID: <001201c0c348$3e3fbcc0$8389f8c1@ftiwgv46y5> RE: collecting in France?J'ai peut-?tre r?pondu un peu vite, je ne connais pas de telles restrictions ni leur fondement juridique. Il est vrai que je ne m'int?resse qu'aux N?vropt?res.... Ces restrictions concernent elles les ?chantillonnages limit?s ? des fins scientifiques? Dominique ----- Original Message ----- From: Pierre SCHMIT To: 'dominique.thierry' ; 'Lepidoptera List' Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:23 AM Subject: RE: collecting in France? I do not agree entirely with what says Dominique.There are restrictions on collecting some species outside of parcs . In "Ile de France" , "Vall?e de la Durance " ... for example collecting of some species is restricted, even if somtime it could be difficult to apply the regulations . For "Carcassone region" ,you probably will get more accurate information on contacting the "Association Roussillonnaise d'entomologie" at :http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rare/ , rare at wanadoo.fr They probably could help you as well to find good spots . Regards, Pierre Schmit http://pierre.schmit.free.fr/ pierre.schmit at eurocontrol.fr -----Message d'origine----- De : dominique.thierry [mailto:dominique.thierry at wanadoo.fr] Envoy? : mercredi 11 avril 2001 19:41 ? : leps-l at lists.yale.edu Objet : Re: collecting in France? You have no problem in France excepted in reserves or center part of the National Parcs Yours Dominique Dominique THIERRY IRFA - UCO 44 rue Rabelais 49000 Angers. Niklas Wahlberg a ?crit dans le message : 5.0.2.1.2.20010411094851.00b3b668 at mail.it.su.se... > Hello, > I'm visiting southern France for two weeks (the Carcassone region) and > am wondering whether France has any restrictions on collecting butterflies? > Of course endangered and protected species are not allowed to be collected, > but is France like Germany and Spain, where butterflies are not allowed to > be touched without an official permit? Thanks for any information! > > Cheers, > Niklas > > Niklas Wahlberg > Department of Zoology > Stockholm University > S-106 91 Stockholm > SWEDEN > > Phone: +46 8 164047 > Fax: +46 8 167715 > > http://www.zoologi.su.se/research/ihp/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010412/9beccb43/attachment.html From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Thu Apr 12 12:38:57 2001 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:38:57 -0700 Subject: don't judge a book by its blurb Message-ID: Thanks to Felix for finally interjecting a little reality into this thread. I was biting my tongue, as I know the authors well, and even produced a field guide through the INHS myself (the one preceding this butterfly guide in the series, in fact, on Cerambycids). I was wondering how long it would take until someone would trouble themselves to get a copy of the book before criticizing it. I rather suspect someone in the business office was responsible for the advertisement, trying to encourage USFWS personnel to buy copies (the INHS makes very little from book sales, so every copy sold helps). I doubt they realize how well butterfly books sell compared to other field guides. Peace, Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us Thu Apr 12 14:24:29 2001 From: Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us (Mike Quinn) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:24:29 -0500 Subject: Butterfly host records for introduced parasite Message-ID: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD197DB@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Paul H. Arnaud, Jr. 1978. A host-parasite catalog of North American Tachinidae (Diptera). USDA Misc. Publ. No 1319. 860 pages. Arnaud (1978) lists one species of Coleoptera, four families of Hymenoptera, and 22 families of Lepidoptera including the following butterflies as hosts for the introduced parasite *Compsilura concinnata*. ------------------------------------- Swallowtails (Family Papilionidae) Pipevine Swallowtail (Battus philenor) Black Swallowtail (Papilio polyxenes) Eastern Tiger Swallowtail (Papilio glaucus) Spicebush Swallowtail (Papilio troilus) -------------------------------------- Whites and Sulphurs (Family Pieridae) Cabbage White (Pieris rapae) -------------------------------------- Brush-footed Butterflies (Family Nymphalidae) Gulf Fritillary (Agraulis vanillae) Silvery Checkerspot (Chlosyne nycteis) Harris' Checkerspot (Chlosyne harrisii) Baltimore (Euphydryas phaeton) Question Mark (Polygonia interrogationis) Eastern Comma (Polygonia comma) Compton Tortoiseshell (Nymphalis vaualbum) Mourning Cloak (Nymphalis antiopa) Milbert's Tortoiseshell (Nymphalis milberti) American Lady (Vanessa virginiensis) Red Admiral (Vanessa atalanta) 'Astyanax' Red-spotted Purple (Limenitis arthemis astyanax) Viceroy (Limenitis archippus) Monarch (Danaus plexippus) ----------------------------------------- Skippers (Family Hesperiidae) Silver-spotted Skipper (Epargyreus clarus) Sleepy Duskywing (Erynnis brizo) Dreamy Duskywing (Erynnis icelus) Erynnis spp. including Horace's Duskywing (Erynnis horatius) and/or Juvenal's Duskywing (Erynnis juvenalis) European Skipper (Thymelicus lineola) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Quinn Invertebrate Biologist Wildlife Diversity Branch Texas Parks & Wildlife Austin, TX Ph: 512/912-7059 mike.quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Thu Apr 12 14:54:25 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:54:25 -0400 Subject: don't judge a book by its blurb References: Message-ID: <007b01c0c381$fedd7e20$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Yanega" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 12:38 PM Subject: Re: don't judge a book by its blurb > Thanks to Felix for finally interjecting a little reality into this thread. > I was biting my tongue, as I know the authors well, and even produced a > field guide through the INHS myself (the one preceding this butterfly guide > in the series, in fact, on Cerambycids). I was wondering how long it would > take until someone would trouble themselves to get a copy of the book > before criticizing it. Before criticizing IT? I (Ron) have been biting my tongue as neither I nor Leroy have said one word about the book itself, its content, worth, scientific accuracy, you name it. I even, in a spirit of levity, said as an adict I would buy it. For the record - I want it. The very title of this string "don't judge a book" is a fairy tale. It is a one sided argument against something that never occurred. For apparently different reasons Leroy reacted, and I overreacted, to the "law enforcement" reference in the brochure. I have already stated where my paranoia on that phrase comes from. Unreasonable to others, reasonable to me. The "issue" the "puzzlement" the "controversy" had nothing to do with the "book" but what on earth was the connection with butterflies and law enforcement. Anyone can point a finger at me for jumping to conclusions, overaction, being an air head over the use of the phrase "law enforcement". Fine. One could even point a finger at me for in some way questioning the authors - guilt by association. But don't go putting words into my mouth or intents into my heart about judging the BOOK. >I rather suspect someone in the business office was > responsible for the advertisement, trying to encourage USFWS personnel to > buy copies (the INHS makes very little from book sales, so every copy sold > helps). I am very glad someone has read the book and that it not only has no mention of Law Enforcement but even promotes collecting. (Now the anti-collecting faction can speak against the "book" or be alarmist and wonder why "evil collecting" would even be mentioned in a modern butterfly book in this day of lepidopteran enlightenment.) Just a little good natured sarcasm. >I doubt they realize how well butterfly books sell compared to > other field guides. I am going to start a new string about how wrong headed/spirited Doug was to attack the wonderful advertising people at the publisher's office for not having enough brains to "realize" the market to which they were appealing. Why not? Of course not. I am still curious though about how and why "law enforcement" was mentioned in the brochure. But by the next hour I will have deleted this post, along with all the others on this subject I deleted yesterday, and will have forgotten about it in my head too. Ron > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From troy at troyb.com Thu Apr 12 13:47:01 2001 From: troy at troyb.com (Troy Bartlett) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:47:01 -0400 Subject: Recognize this caterpillar? (with link) References: <9b37ho$sme$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <9b4pmr$phb$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> > Here's a caterpillar I found on Cayman Brac in the Cayman islands, > just last week. Oops, forgot the link: http://troyb.com/photo/gallery/new_00000482.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us Thu Apr 12 18:30:55 2001 From: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us (Robert Dana) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:30:55 -0500 Subject: Atteva punctella Message-ID: I'm looking for some additional information about this species (Ailanthus webworm). A colleague just came in with a freshly emerged specimen he found while walking in a forest near Minneapolis (the snow has barely gone). Covell's book does not appear to include MN in the range, though "New York to Neb." comes close. What I am most curious about is the host plant or plants: ailanthus (Ailanthus altissima), also known as "the tree of heaven", is all I have found in the literature. This species is not documented as occurring in MN. Covell also gives "paradise tree", but I haven't been able to figure out what this is. Are other hosts known? And is the moth introduced to N.A. along with ailanthus? Thanks for any help. Robert ************************************************************* Robert Dana, Ph.D. MN DNR Natural Heritage and Nongame Research Program 500 Lafayette Rd, Box 25 St. Paul, MN 55155 651 297-2367 Email: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us ************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From david.macdonald at utoronto.ca Thu Apr 12 19:34:03 2001 From: david.macdonald at utoronto.ca (David MacDonald) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:34:03 GMT Subject: "First Monarch Sightings" Requested for Journey North Message-ID: <3AD63B69.4AC0C2CD@utoronto.ca> As per the note below, Journey North 2001 would again appreciate hearing from you with regard to your first sighting of a migrating monarch butterfly, monarch eggs or larva or other observations. Please report directly to Journey North at: www.learner.org/jnorth. I would appreciate hearing about Canadian sightings as well. Thank you Don Davis Toronto, ON ----------------- PLEASE SUPPORT JOURNEY NORTH - SPRING 2001 Journey North is an outstanding internet-based science program that monitors and documents the arrival of spring as it sweeps across North America. This award-winning program is utilized by over 4000 classrooms in Canada and the United States. Students can contribute data, download information and make predictions, and even share information with other schools in Canada or the United States. You can support this program by sharing your "first" sightings of certain target species and phenomenon. You can register with the program, and report your sightings directly to Journey North (www.learner.org/jnorth). Alternately, F.O.N. Life Member Don Davis, who has supported this program since its inception, would be pleased to forward your sightings to Journey North . Don can be reached at: donald.davis at utoronto.ca. Please let your colleagues and local schools know about this program. Migration update reports are issued regularly for target species. Barn Swallow (First sighted) Hummingbird (Feeder up) Hummingbird (FIRST sighted) Loon (FIRST sighted) Oriole (Feeder up) Oriole (FIRST sighted) Oriole (FIRST nest-building) Red-winged blackbird (FIRST sighted) Robin (First HEARD Singing) Robin (First SEEN) Robin (OTHER observations Monarch Adult (FIRST sighted) Monarch Larva (FIRST sighted) Monarch Egg (FIRST sighted) Monarch (OTHER observations) Earthworm (FIRST sighted) Frog (First HEARD singing) Tulips PLANTED Tulips EMERGED Tulips BLOOMED Ice-out Leaf Out (Any Species) Maple Syrup (FIRST Sap Run) Other Signs of Spring ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From chip at ku.edu Thu Apr 12 22:34:45 2001 From: chip at ku.edu (Chip Taylor) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:34:45 -0500 Subject: Atteva punctella In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Atteva punctella is carried northward on strong winds each spring in April and last week there was a strong southerly flow from TX through the midwest. There are no hosts for this species in MN. The only known hosts are in the Simaroubaceae of which there are few species in the new world. The genus has it's highest diversity in the Asian tropics. There are several new world species of Atteva and punctella seems to have jumped from native Simaroubas, which are tropical and subtropical in distribution, to Ailanthus. Curiously, Atteva is not found, to the best of my knowledge, on Ailanthus in the front range or anywhere west of the Rockies even though a form indistinguishable from punctella occurs in AZ on "Crown of Thorns". As I recall, this issue came up last year when a specimen was found in the spring in Nova Scotia or New Brunwick. >I'm looking for some additional information about this species >(Ailanthus webworm). A colleague just came in with a freshly emerged >specimen he found while walking in a forest near Minneapolis (the >snow has barely gone). Covell's book does not appear to include MN >in the range, though "New York to Neb." comes close. What I am most >curious about is the host plant or plants: ailanthus (Ailanthus >altissima), also known as "the tree of heaven", is all I have found >in the literature. This species is not documented as occurring in >MN. Covell also gives "paradise tree", but I haven't been able to >figure out what this is. Are other hosts known? And is the moth >introduced to N.A. along with ailanthus? > >Thanks for any help. > >Robert > >************************************************************* >Robert Dana, Ph.D. >MN DNR >Natural Heritage and Nongame Research Program >500 Lafayette Rd, Box 25 >St. Paul, MN 55155 >651 297-2367 >Email: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us >************************************************************* > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl -- Monarch Watch e: monarch at ku.edu w: http://www.MonarchWatch.org/ Dplex-L: send message "info Dplex-L" to Listproc at ukans.edu p: 1 (888) TAGGING (toll-free!) -or- 1 (785) 864 4441 f: 1 (785) 864 4441 -or- 1 (785) 864 5321 usps: University of Kansas, Entomology Program, 1200 Sunnyside Avenue, Lawrence, KS 66045-7534 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Apr 13 00:39:05 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:39:05 -0400 Subject: Island Pigmy Blue Message-ID: <00cb01c0c3d3$ad91c060$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Harry I finally made it out to Edisto on April 12th. It was mostly sunny, 85 degrees, slight breeze. Butterflies were still very sparse. The last freeze must have really affected everything. It takes me a good hour to drive to the area from my home. I got there about 4:30 and left about 5:30. I found two fresh male Brephidium isophthalma insularus. I think that with all the other information we have compiled that this is conclusive proof that this species is resident this far north. They are at least two weeks late this year. I did not see any C. minima skippers which have always been out at the same time at this spot. Not much else was seen - couple of tharos, one V. virginiensis, some white geometrids I flushed from the marsh grass. Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Fri Apr 13 00:28:27 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:28:27 -0700 Subject: FYI Message-ID: <3AD6806B.2971C2F7@extremezone.com> Subject: Congressional hearing on Smithsonian closings Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:38:17 -0400 Virginia representative Frank R. Wolf will be holding a public hearing tomorrow, April 12, 2001, concerning the recent decision by the Secretary and Regents of the Smithsonian Institution to close the Smithsonian Conservation and Research Center (CRC). Congressman Wolf is against the closure and is soliciting public comments on the recent actions. This forum will provide the opportunity for your opinions to be heard. Please attend this important hearing. The hearing will take place at 11 a.m. at the Capital - 241 Cannon Building. For those of you in the Washington, DC area, the Cannon Building is at the Capital South Metro Station. If you cannot attend, please direct your comments to Congressman Wolf at the following address: 241 Cannon Building Washington, DC 20515 202-225-5136 202-225-0437 (fax) ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Fri Apr 13 00:42:49 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:42:49 -0700 Subject: FYI References: <3AD6806B.2971C2F7@extremezone.com> Message-ID: <3AD683C9.FA208083@extremezone.com> I just noticed that this is in the past. This came from another group I subscribe to. I did not realize it was such a short notice. Sorry to bother you. Stan "Stanley A. Gorodenski" wrote: > > Subject: Congressional hearing on Smithsonian closings > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:38:17 -0400 > > Virginia representative Frank R. Wolf will be holding a public hearing > tomorrow, April 12, 2001, concerning the recent decision by the > Secretary and Regents of the Smithsonian Institution to close the > Smithsonian Conservation and Research Center (CRC). Congressman Wolf is > > against the closure and is soliciting public comments on the recent > actions. This forum will provide the opportunity for your opinions to > be heard. Please attend this important hearing. The hearing will take > place at 11 a.m. at the Capital - 241 Cannon Building. For those of you > > in the Washington, DC area, the Cannon Building is at the Capital South > Metro Station. > > If you cannot attend, please direct your comments to Congressman Wolf at > > the following address: > 241 Cannon Building > Washington, DC 20515 > 202-225-5136 > 202-225-0437 (fax) ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Apr 13 03:44:29 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 03:44:29 -0400 Subject: H. cecropia Message-ID: <001b01c0c3ed$927cece0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> A tail to tell. When I got to church Wednesday night one of the men of the church had brought a female H. cecropia he had found that day while working on a commercial air-conditioning job. He had placed the specimen in a Styrofoam take-out food box. (It is amazing how consistent non lepidopterists are at putting specimens into containers where they can beat their wings to shreds.) However, in this case only the tip of one wing had gotten damaged. He hadn't even knocked off any legs. Taking a sheet of typing paper I made a large triangle envelope and placed her inside for safe keeping till I could get it home. Of course, I instructed the man and several others who had gathered around by this time, on the correct way to make envelopes to protect leps from damage. When we got home I took her out and placed her on the inside of the front screen door. Seeing that she was not going to settle down and stay there I offered my finger for a ride to - well I wasn't sure where. Well, for some reason she took an immediate liking to my finger and started laying eggs on it. I had my 12 year old daughter get the flash light and go outside and get a sprig of Sweet Gum. She went to the twig fine and I affixed it to a stable place in my "bug room" and turned off the light. My daughter and I then went outside to try and catch the Bull Frog 20 feet outside our bedroom windows that had been keeping us awake all night for about three weeks. (This was about our 459th try at catching it.) We had barely gotten outside when my if-it-moves-don't-bring-it-in-the-house wife informed us that "that thing" was now loose in the kitchen. We came right in and found that cecropia had come to rest at the top of an open kitchen cabinet door - and was busy laying more eggs - on it. This of course was totally disgusting to my wife (who I try to keep away from my daughter in matters like this so as not to instill fear in her about every creature capable of movement - which is anything alive). We finally got cecropia in a rearing cage and all the eggs pealed off and into a rearing container. Next day cecropia had laid about 70 eggs (which is plenty for rearing) and we released her outside. Now I am remembering when we reared a batch of Regal Moths some years back. The wife said they were horned devils (having never heard their common name). They looked like 4+ inch long masterpieces to me. The thing that bothered her the most was listening to them chew three rooms away at night. That and the constant tink, tink, tinking, of frass dropping on the container floor. I just hope she never gives me the ultimatum that it is the bugs or her. I think you all understand who would have to go. Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From patfoley at csus.edu Fri Apr 13 13:17:36 2001 From: patfoley at csus.edu (Patrick Foley) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:17:36 -0700 Subject: Printing labels with inkjets References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010404111051.00b34b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3AD734B0.47ACAFC2@csus.edu> Dear fulminators and followers of the furry fliers, What is the latest best way to print labels with inkjets? I have read that the Lexmark Z51 uses India ink and is not alcohol soluble. Is this true? Is there a better printer, the Z52 perhaps? Do they print clearly on Bioquip's acid free label paper? Patrick Foley patfoley at csus.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Fri Apr 13 17:58:57 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:58:57 -0500 Subject: Printing labels with inkjets In-Reply-To: <3AD734B0.47ACAFC2@csus.edu> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010404111051.00b34b60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010413165358.00b229b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> I print a set of labels on an Epson Stylus Photo 700 (my available printer). Then I reduce - copy (xerographic) on to label stock paper. The hot resin transfer process used in xerographic printers heat-welds the resin ink around the fibers of the paper. If the paper gets wet or warps with age, the ink is still locked on. Does the resin crack as it ages? I do not know. ...................Chris Durden At 10:17 AM 4/13/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Dear fulminators and followers of the furry fliers, > >What is the latest best way to print labels with inkjets? I have read that the >Lexmark Z51 uses India ink and is not alcohol soluble. Is this true? Is >there a >better printer, the Z52 perhaps? Do they print clearly on Bioquip's acid free >label paper? > >Patrick Foley >patfoley at csus.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From marven at home.com Fri Apr 13 22:03:20 2001 From: marven at home.com (D Marven) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 02:03:20 GMT Subject: Caterpillar Book Message-ID: <3AD7B47D.C1DBB635@home.com> Hi Guys Anybody have any idea where i can find a book entitled: Field Guide to the Caterpillars of Pacific Northwest Forests & Woodlands By Miller, 1995. Even an ISBN number would help greatly. Thanks Derrick ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From sebrez at webtv.net Fri Apr 13 22:13:03 2001 From: sebrez at webtv.net (sebrez at webtv.net) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: "What Happened to our Biggest Moths" References: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD19675@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Message-ID: <2252-3AD7B22F-11@storefull-125.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I live in upstate NY and 5-10 years ago we had the tent worm scourge that destroyed many acres of hardwood. Well, they recovered, the woods are green again, however they did release a fly here also to attack the tent caterpillar. I'm not sure if it is the same one you mentioned but we were infested with them for a while. The tent caterpillars are gone for the moment, the flies have disappeared and I have seen cecropia, polyphemus and luna, one promethea and many many sphinx species here in the last few years. The luna being the most common. mail to: sebrez at webtv.net ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From John.Snyder at furman.edu Sat Apr 14 09:09:39 2001 From: John.Snyder at furman.edu (John.Snyder at furman.edu) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:09:39 -0400 Subject: Caterpillar Book Message-ID: "Caterpillars of Pacific Northwest Forests and Woodlands" is published on the Web, at the following address: http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/2000/catnw/catnw.htm At that web page, you can see information on how to obtain the print version. John Snyder ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From be496 at lafn.org Sat Apr 14 10:46:24 2001 From: be496 at lafn.org (Dameron, Wanda) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 07:46:24 -0700 Subject: Caterpillar Book References: Message-ID: <3AD862C0.7BA2EF75@lafn.org> There is another Caterpillar Book for all the U.S. at the printers and probably available within a year. It is part of the BTB (Butterflies thru Binocular) series. Jim Brock is co-author for the western species. Wanda Dameron John.Snyder at furman.edu wrote: > > "Caterpillars of Pacific Northwest Forests and Woodlands" is published on > the Web, at the following address: > http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/2000/catnw/catnw.htm At that web page, > you can see information on how to obtain the print version. > > John Snyder > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > -- Wanda Dameron Flutterby Press LA-NABA, LepSoc, ATL, Lorquin, Xerces 23424 Jonathan St., Los Angeles, Ca. 91304 818-340-0365 be496 at lafn.org ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sat Apr 14 12:40:58 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:40:58 -0400 Subject: none Message-ID: <00b001c0c501$af739280$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> I was just moving and deleting stuff in the email file and I came to my recent post of "a tail to tell." Humm, a tail huh. I guess ya'll know the rest of that tale. Well, back to cleaning up my emale. Now where did I put that pale? Ah, hail! --- RG ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Sat Apr 14 14:23:02 2001 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Recognize this caterpillar? (with link) In-Reply-To: <9b4pmr$phb$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <20010414182302.29110.qmail@web5203.mail.yahoo.com> --- Troy Bartlett wrote: > > Here's a caterpillar I found on Cayman Brac in the > Cayman islands, > > just last week. > > Oops, forgot the link: > http://troyb.com/photo/gallery/new_00000482.htm Great Photo Troy. Has any body gotten an ID ? ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL RJP Associates rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://rainforest.care2.com/welcome?w=976131876 "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."- Confucius __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jmmaes at ibw.com.ni Sat Apr 14 15:08:52 2001 From: jmmaes at ibw.com.ni (Jean-Michel MAES) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:08:52 -0600 Subject: new butterlies sellers Message-ID: <005e01c0c517$b26d4880$9571fea9@uam.edu.ni> Dear friends, A group of women of Nicaragua is running a butterfly rearing project. They will be able to sell papered butterflies for collection and live pupae. If interested you can answer to me. I will connect with pleasure. Sincerely, Jean-Michel. Dr. Jean-Michel MAES MUSEO ENTOMOLOGICO AP 527 LEON NICARAGUA tel 505-3116586 jmmaes at ibw.com.ni www.insectariumvirtual.com/termitero/termitero.htm#nicaragua www.insectariumvirtual.com/lasmariposasdenicaragua.htm www-museum.unl.edu/research/entomology/workers/JMaes.htm www-museum.unl.edu/research/entomology/database2/honduintro.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010414/a7f1fc82/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 5036 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010414/a7f1fc82/attachment.obj From araneus9 at hotmail.com Sat Apr 14 21:21:05 2001 From: araneus9 at hotmail.com (Stephen Parshall) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:21:05 Subject: Field Guide Brochure Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010414/53233c8d/attachment.html From MWalker at gensym.com Sat Apr 14 22:11:04 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:11:04 -0400 Subject: Ladies Dance Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D03B1E6A2@hqmail.gensym.com> Arroyo Seco, Monterey Co. CA 4/14/01 Typical spring weather on the central coast. One day of torrential rain, the next a day of cloudless blue sky, and the next a day of heavy fog followed by hazy sunshine. It was on this final day that I had a chance to break away from my busy working schedule and get a little lepping in. Well, not so much lepping - but a lot of hiking. I trekked in from the Arroyo Seco trailhead - if you haven't visited this part of Monterey county in California, it is some incredible country. The trail ventures into the Ventana Wilderness area of the Santa Lucia mountains. The mountains in this part of the range go above 4000 ft. - which is pretty tall when you start at sea level. The forest here is thick and already leafed out - a combination of deciduous, evergreen, and chaparral. There is a deep gorge here, and the river is swollen from the recent rain. I don't know if/when the river dries up (Arroyo Seco), but it isn't going to be dry any time soon. There are many deep swimming holes between the rapids. Normally I'm a fish, but this day wasn't warm enough to justify the long and dangerous hike down into the gorge. I thought the sun would grow stronger, but it just never happened. All the leps I saw were weak in flight, and very few in number. Surprisingly, 90% of every lep was female (good day to be a lep I guess). That was enjoyable, being the hetero guy that I am. This part of the season is mostly quiet anyway, but I expected quite a few more blues, orangetips, and elfins. I was stoked to find a species of Dudleya - and even more stoked to find Philotes sonorensis shortly after. The NPWRC site doesn't include Monterey county, so I don't know if it's been recorded here before. I hiked for about 5 miles, and then had to head down to pick up my children in Bradley. I have family there - which is amazing, since the population is only 49. Four of those 49 are kin. There are lot more rattlesnakes in Bradley then there are people. Here's my list: Papilio eurymedon (Pale Swallowtail) Anthocharis sara (Sara Orangetip) Satyrium melinus (Gray Hairstreak) Incisalia augustinus (Brown Elfin) Celastrina ladon (Spring Azure) Philotes sonorensis (Sonoran Blue) Glaucopsyche lygdamus (Silvery Blue) Plebejus icarioides (Boisduval's Blue) Plebejus acmon (Acmon Blue) Coenonympha tullia california (California Ringlet) Mark Walker Oceanside, CA ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Sat Apr 14 22:21:00 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:21:00 -0400 Subject: Stupid Question #917 Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D03B1E6A3@hqmail.gensym.com> Ready for a short post? I paper my leps in rectangular envelopes. I have taken over my families freezer. I'm very, very happy with this arrangement. Except....... Sometimes it's difficult to rotate my little friends head after it's been crooked over by the lie of its antennae in the envelope. You need to rotate their little heads if you want their antennae to fan out nicely on the spreading board. Most times it's easy. Sometimes their little heads get stuck (especially the iddy bitty ones) - it can't be very comfortable. Any recommendations (besides buying a camera...you hosers)? Mark Walker Oceanside, CA ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jmmaes at ibw.com.ni Sat Apr 14 21:37:25 2001 From: jmmaes at ibw.com.ni (Jean-Michel MAES) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 19:37:25 -0600 Subject: MARIPOSAS / BUTTERFLIES OF NICARAGUA Message-ID: <000c01c0c5b1$f3369de0$67c2c6d1@uam.edu.ni> NEW CD ROM AVAILABLE : MARIPOSAS DE NICARAGUA PC VERSION / SPANISH VERSION ALL SPECIES REPORTED FROM NICARAGUA IN THE FAMILIES PAPILIONIDAE - PIERIDAE - NYMPHALIDAE + MANY EXOTIC ONES WEB LIKE PRESENTATION / MORE THAN 1000 PICTURES VALUE : 30 US $ (POSTAGE INCLUDED). PURCHASE FROM : jmmaes at ibw.com.ni PLEASE FORWARD TO COLLEGUES NUEVO CD ROM DISPONIBLE : MARIPOSAS DE NICARAGUA VERSION PARA PC / VERSION EN ESPA?OL TODAS LAS ESPECIES REPORTADAS DE NICARAGUA DE LAS FAMILIAS PAPILIONIDAE - PIERIDAE - NYMPHALIDAE + MUCHAS ESPECIES EXOTICAS PRESENTACION ESTILO PAGINA WEB / MAS DE 1000 FOTOS VALOR : 30 DOLARES (PORTE INCLUIDO). PEDIDOS A : jmmaes at ibw.com.ni FAVOR REENVIAR A COLEGAS INTERESADOS NOUVEAU CD ROM DISPONIBLE : PAPILLONS DU NICARAGUA VERSION PC / VERSION ESPA?OL TOUTES LES ESPECIES CONNUES DU NICARAGUA (PAPILIONIDAE - PIERIDAE - NYMPHALIDAE) + DE NOMBREUSES ESPECES EXOTIQUES PRESENTATION STYLE PAGE WEB / PLUS DE 1000 PHOTOS VALEUR : 30 DOLLARS (ENVOI INCLU). COMMANDES A : jmmaes at ibw.com.ni REENVOYER AUX COLLEGUES INTERESSES S.V.P. ALWAYS AVAILABLE : CD ROM : INSECTOS ASOCIADOS A CULTIVOS TROPICALES (INSECTS ASOCIATED WITH HUMID TROPICS CROPS OF NICARAGUA) (INSECTES ASSOCIES AUX CULTURES DES TROPIQUES HUMIDES DU NICARAGUA). VALOR / VALUE : 30 US $ (POSTAGE INCLUDE). THIS IS NOT SPAM. IT'S A GENUINE MESSAGE. IF YOU CONSIDER YOU DO NOT WANT TO RECEIVE MORE INFORMATION FROM "MUSEO ENTOMOLOGICO DE LEON - NICARAGUA" JUST TELL ME, I'LL QUIT YOU FROM MY ADRESS LIST. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010414/e54fce57/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 97099 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010414/e54fce57/attachment.obj From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Sun Apr 15 20:13:50 2001 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:13:50 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Rotating heads Message-ID: Mark Walker asked about rotating heads of papered butterflies when spread- ing them. I have noticed the same problem--with papered material the head often ends up rotated to one side or the other, making it difficult to position the antennae correctly. What I do is as follows: 1) make sure the specimen is fully relaxed-- which takes about 24 hours in my relaxer. 2) after pinning the specimen through the thorax, and before pinning it into the groove in the spreading board, inspect the head position. If the head is rotated, use a probe to rotate it about the same amount in the opposite direction. One or more such attempts will usually bring the head, after you remove the probe, to something close to the correct position as far as rotation goes. 3) pin the specimen to the board and spread. I have never had a head 'lock' into the rotated position--the head always rotates freely when pushed. However, I don't freeze them--I use ethyl acetate to kill them. Maybe something about freezing does that? Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sun Apr 15 20:45:38 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 20:45:38 -0400 Subject: Rotating heads References: Message-ID: <000f01c0c60e$8e7be560$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> I would just ditto everything Ken says below - main point being a fully relaxed specimen. I don't freeze stuff either. I have found that in some specimens I have gotten in exchange which had been in a freezer, that they seem to handle differently - usually less stiff. I have attributed this to the freeze drying effect over a long time that seems to actually degenerate tissue? Thoughts on this? Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenelm Philip" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 8:13 PM Subject: Rotating heads > > Mark Walker asked about rotating heads of papered butterflies when spread- > ing them. I have noticed the same problem--with papered material the head > often ends up rotated to one side or the other, making it difficult to > position the antennae correctly. > > What I do is as follows: 1) make sure the specimen is fully relaxed-- > which takes about 24 hours in my relaxer. 2) after pinning the specimen > through the thorax, and before pinning it into the groove in the spreading > board, inspect the head position. If the head is rotated, use a probe to > rotate it about the same amount in the opposite direction. One or more such > attempts will usually bring the head, after you remove the probe, to > something close to the correct position as far as rotation goes. 3) pin > the specimen to the board and spread. > > I have never had a head 'lock' into the rotated position--the head always > rotates freely when pushed. However, I don't freeze them--I use ethyl > acetate to kill them. Maybe something about freezing does that? > > Ken Philip > fnkwp at uaf.edu > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From toddredhead at hotmail.com Sun Apr 15 21:39:20 2001 From: toddredhead at hotmail.com (Todd Redhead) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:39:20 -0000 Subject: Rotating heads Message-ID: Hi Mark, I, too freeze most everything I catch. (The stuff I can't mount immediatly anyway.) Although many specimens do end up with a turned head - I have not really had a problem with them staying that way. What I do is this: let the insect thaw out for about 20 mins. Then while the wings are still folded up I check the position of the head. If the head needs to be rotated I use my tongs to turn it the other way. (If the lep is large enough, I will sometimes just use my fingers to do this.) The trick, though, is to overrotate it - not just turn it to the position it will finally be in. I hold the head in that overrotated position for 20 or 30 seconds so that when I let it go it stays turned in that direction. I then flex the wings, insert the mounting pin, etc. and do the final spread. During this time I find the head will often 'creep' back into the position that it was frozen in but not nearly as far. If everything works out right - the head will often end up in the straight on position. If not - a couple of '000' pins is all it takes to hold it and the antenna in position. I do my dried leps the same way after they have been in the relaxer for 24 hrs although the process of overrotating the heads sometimes leaves me in a bit of a sweat. (The amount of sweat depends on how much $ I spent on that insect.) The heads are usually stiffer on dried insects as compared to the stuff taken out of the freezer. Todd From: Kenelm Philip Reply-To: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu To: Subject: Rotating heads Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:13:50 -0800 (AKDT) Mark Walker asked about rotating heads of papered butterflies when spread- ing them. I have noticed the same problem--with papered material the head often ends up rotated to one side or the other, making it difficult to position the antennae correctly. What I do is as follows: 1) make sure the specimen is fully relaxed-- which takes about 24 hours in my relaxer. 2) after pinning the specimen through the thorax, and before pinning it into the groove in the spreading board, inspect the head position. If the head is rotated, use a probe to rotate it about the same amount in the opposite direction. One or more such attempts will usually bring the head, after you remove the probe, to something close to the correct position as far as rotation goes. 3) pin the specimen to the board and spread. I have never had a head 'lock' into the rotated position--the head always rotates freely when pushed. However, I don't freeze them--I use ethyl acetate to kill them. Maybe something about freezing does that? Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Semperglove at aol.com Mon Apr 16 09:55:07 2001 From: Semperglove at aol.com (Semperglove at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:55:07 EDT Subject: Illinois Butterfly Book Message-ID: After following the rather lively string about the book "Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois," I wondered how to get a copy. In case anyone is still interested, it is available through the following Web page: http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/chf/pub/surveyreports/winter-01/fguide.html. According to the advertisement, it is 276 pages. It includes over 300 color photos and 91 color distribution maps. It is also hardbound, but "designed to fit into a coat pocket." It is listed at $19.95 (includes domestic shipping). It can be ordered via mail, e-mail or telephone. Sounds like it has great potential. I look forward to getting my copy! John Calhoun Palm Harbor, FL ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rworth at oda.state.or.us Mon Apr 16 11:40:04 2001 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:40:04 -0700 Subject: Rotating heads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, I have found pretty much everything said already to be true and do much the same things. However, I rarely rotate the heads back until the beasts are pinned, then I use the pin method. Careful with the 000s because they are very springy and you can "plink" the antennae right off when removing them. I just use #2s, hold my breath, and make sure I'm not going through any caffeine withdrawls ;-). I had always heard that cyanide was the worst contributor to stiffness though I tend to agree that dried specimens are a little stiffer. I usually relax my dried specimens more than 24 hrs anyway. Just my $0.02. Happy trails, Rich >Hi Mark, > >I, too freeze most everything I catch. (The stuff I can't mount >immediatly anyway.) Although many specimens do end up with a turned >head - I have not really had a problem with them staying that way. >What I do is this: let the insect thaw out for about 20 mins. Then >while the wings are still folded up I check the position of the >head. If the head needs to be rotated I use my tongs to turn it the >other way. (If the lep is large enough, I will sometimes just use >my fingers to do this.) The trick, though, is to overrotate it - >not just turn it to the position it will finally be in. I hold the >head in that overrotated position for 20 or 30 seconds so that when >I let it go it stays turned in that direction. I then flex the >wings, insert the mounting pin, etc. and do the final spread. >During this time I find the head will often 'creep' back into the >position that it was frozen in but not nearly as far. If everything >works out right - the head will often end up in the straight on >position. If not - a couple of '000' pins is all it takes to hold >it and the antenna in position. I do my dried leps the same way >after they have been in the relaxer for 24 hrs although the process >of overrotating the heads sometimes leaves me in a bit of a sweat. >(The amount of sweat depends on how much $ I spent on that insect.) >The heads are usually stiffer on dried insects as compared to the >stuff taken out of the freezer. > >Todd > > >From: Kenelm Philip >Reply-To: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu >To: >Subject: Rotating heads >Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:13:50 -0800 (AKDT) > > >Mark Walker asked about rotating heads of papered butterflies when spread- >ing them. I have noticed the same problem--with papered material the head >often ends up rotated to one side or the other, making it difficult to >position the antennae correctly. > >What I do is as follows: 1) make sure the specimen is fully relaxed-- >which takes about 24 hours in my relaxer. 2) after pinning the specimen >through the thorax, and before pinning it into the groove in the spreading >board, inspect the head position. If the head is rotated, use a probe to >rotate it about the same amount in the opposite direction. One or more such >attempts will usually bring the head, after you remove the probe, to >something close to the correct position as far as rotation goes. 3) pin >the specimen to the board and spread. > >I have never had a head 'lock' into the rotated position--the head always >rotates freely when pushed. However, I don't freeze them--I use ethyl >acetate to kill them. Maybe something about freezing does that? > > Ken Philip >fnkwp at uaf.edu > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4003 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010416/f686ca0d/attachment.bin From nschiff at asrr.arsusda.gov Mon Apr 16 15:26:42 2001 From: nschiff at asrr.arsusda.gov (Nathan Schiff) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:26:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Field Guide Brochure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear All, I just returned from a week away to all this fuss about the Illinois field guide pamphlet. I have studied the book and I have known both authors for at least 15 years. The authors are two of the finest field entomologists I have ever met. They have been collecting and studying lepidoptera in Illinois and the east for at least 50 years of field work. I consider their skills and knowledge superior to my own. They have written a very good field guide and I endorse it heartily. I don't really know what to say about the unpleasantness that has been on the list. I know the intentions of both authors was to update previous information and make the best guide that they could. I know they did a better job than I or most of the members of the lep soc could. I feel that their book is being used to advance someone else's cause. Please don't confuse their effort with this other cause. Finally, even though I am a member of the lep soc, for anyone to criticize a book before they read it just because the authors were not lep soc members, is way to arrogant for my taste. Nathan Schiff ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jmason at ink.org Mon Apr 16 16:04:15 2001 From: jmason at ink.org (Jim Mason) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:04:15 -0500 Subject: great price on silk moth book Message-ID: <00f201c0c6b0$6fb74780$c49ec9a5@wp.state.ks.us> If you don't have "The Wild Silk Moths of North America" by Tuskes, Tuttle and Collins, and have not received the special sale catalog from Cornell Press, go the following web page and request that catalog. http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/cornellpress/orders/special_sale.html $32 vs. $80 cover price! Vot a deal! Hardcover, color plates, (adults and 76 sp. as cats), detailed natural history info, 250 pages, etc., etc. Jim Mason, Naturalist jmason at ink.org (316) 683-5499 x103 Great Plains Nature Center 6232 E. 29th St. N. Wichita, KS 67220-2200 http://www.gpnc.org ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Mon Apr 16 19:01:59 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:01:59 -0400 Subject: Rotating heads Message-ID: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D03B1E6AB@hqmail.gensym.com> These replies have been outstanding. Thanks to all who've responded. Just for the record, most of my leps are dried and frozen. The reason for this is that when I return from the field I have only 20-30% of my bugs still alive. For these, the freezer is my sleeping chamber. It's also one way to deter hitchiking parasites. I've had parasite problems only with the bugs I've mounted in the field (or on the same day they were captured). Of course, Ken lives in a perpetual freezer - so no need for this tactic in Alaska };>) Bottom line - many of my bugs handle differently. I haven't tried the overrotation (at least not to the extreme suggested). Lycaenids give me the most problem - because their little heads and antennae are more fragile. It's much harder for me to rotate their heads (I'm using only pins and forceps - I should probably invest in some additional instruments). Dale Clark from Dallas further suggested dipping the heads in and out of water that's been brought to boiling. I'll definitely give both of these a try. Thanks again, Mark Walker Oceanside, CA > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd Redhead [mailto:toddredhead at hotmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 6:39 PM > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: Re: Rotating heads > > > Hi Mark, > > I, too freeze most everything I catch. (The stuff I can't > mount immediatly > anyway.) Although many specimens do end up with a turned > head - I have not > really had a problem with them staying that way. What I do > is this: let the > insect thaw out for about 20 mins. Then while the wings are > still folded up > I check the position of the head. If the head needs to be > rotated I use my > tongs to turn it the other way. (If the lep is large enough, I will > sometimes just use my fingers to do this.) The trick, though, is to > overrotate it - not just turn it to the position it will > finally be in. I > hold the head in that overrotated position for 20 or 30 > seconds so that when > I let it go it stays turned in that direction. I then flex > the wings, > insert the mounting pin, etc. and do the final spread. > During this time I > find the head will often 'creep' back into the position that > it was frozen > in but not nearly as far. If everything works out right - > the head will > often end up in the straight on position. If not - a couple > of '000' pins > is all it takes to hold it and the antenna in position. I do > my dried leps > the same way after they have been in the relaxer for 24 hrs > although the > process of overrotating the heads sometimes leaves me in a > bit of a sweat. > (The amount of sweat depends on how much $ I spent on that > insect.) The > heads are usually stiffer on dried insects as compared to the > stuff taken > out of the freezer. > > Todd > > > From: Kenelm Philip > Reply-To: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu > To: > Subject: Rotating heads > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:13:50 -0800 (AKDT) > > > Mark Walker asked about rotating heads of papered butterflies > when spread- > ing them. I have noticed the same problem--with papered > material the head > often ends up rotated to one side or the other, making it difficult to > position the antennae correctly. > > What I do is as follows: 1) make sure the specimen is fully relaxed-- > which takes about 24 hours in my relaxer. 2) after pinning > the specimen > through the thorax, and before pinning it into the groove in > the spreading > board, inspect the head position. If the head is rotated, use > a probe to > rotate it about the same amount in the opposite direction. > One or more such > attempts will usually bring the head, after you remove the probe, to > something close to the correct position as far as rotation > goes. 3) pin > the specimen to the board and spread. > > I have never had a head 'lock' into the rotated position--the > head always > rotates freely when pushed. However, I don't freeze them--I use ethyl > acetate to kill them. Maybe something about freezing does that? > > Ken Philip > fnkwp at uaf.edu > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > ___________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Mon Apr 16 22:19:12 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:19:12 -0400 Subject: Field Guide Brochure In-Reply-To: Nathan Schiff "Re: Field Guide Brochure" (Apr 16, 3:26pm) References: Message-ID: <1010416221915.ZM3526@Gochfeld> At the risk of beating this dead horse, I remembered that the brochure for our book BUTTERFLIES OF NEW JERSEY emphasized "butterfly collecting" even though there is nothing in our book about butterfly collecting (or not collecting). But the brochure took on a life of its own----just like the recent one. Probably more people read the brochure than the book. Hopefully the Illinois book will have a kinder fate. Considering the recent details on preparing specimens and head rotation, it's a good thing we didn't try to include a techniques section, it would have been hopelessly oldfashioned. Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Lawrence_Turner at msn.com Tue Apr 17 08:26:07 2001 From: Lawrence_Turner at msn.com (Lawrence Turner) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 05:26:07 -0700 Subject: Acanthopteroctetes unifascia Message-ID: Unifascia larvae can be found, in early spring, mining the leaves of Ceanothus cuneatus in a chapparral habitat in Monterey County, Calif. The larvae's activity creates a noticeable, dark, circular spot on the leaf. The larvae of Microcalyptris punctulata are also mining the leaves of cuneatus at this time. When unifascia exits the leaf, it makes a circular, silken cocoon on the underside of the leaf and emerges a few weeks later. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010417/4de2b2ad/attachment.html From mikayak at mdo.net Thu Apr 12 00:47:21 2001 From: mikayak at mdo.net (Mike Soukup) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:47:21 -0700 Subject: Rotating heads References: Message-ID: <3AD53358.405FCF47@mdo.net> At home, I almost use the freezer exclusively. And, in 1998, my wife got sick and I didn't have time to mount anything until this winter. some of the specimens had been there since 1997!!!. I relax them the usual way and nerver have any "real" problems with the heads. I am able to adjust them with forceps or pins. The only thing I do "different" sometimes is with larger specimens (Sphingids, Sats), is to inject the thorax with warm H2O before putting them in the relaxing jar. It makes the mounting much easier. Kenelm Philip wrote: > Mark Walker asked about rotating heads of papered butterflies when spread- > ing them. I have noticed the same problem--with papered material the head > often ends up rotated to one side or the other, making it difficult to > position the antennae correctly. > > What I do is as follows: 1) make sure the specimen is fully relaxed-- > which takes about 24 hours in my relaxer. 2) after pinning the specimen > through the thorax, and before pinning it into the groove in the spreading > board, inspect the head position. If the head is rotated, use a probe to > rotate it about the same amount in the opposite direction. One or more such > attempts will usually bring the head, after you remove the probe, to > something close to the correct position as far as rotation goes. 3) pin > the specimen to the board and spread. > > I have never had a head 'lock' into the rotated position--the head always > rotates freely when pushed. However, I don't freeze them--I use ethyl > acetate to kill them. Maybe something about freezing does that? > > Ken Philip > fnkwp at uaf.edu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > -- Website=> http://www.mdo.net/users/mikayak/ http://thenaturedepot.com Email=> mailto:mikayak at mdo.net ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Leptraps at aol.com Tue Apr 17 09:49:38 2001 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:49:38 EDT Subject: Rotating heads Message-ID: I also use a freezer exclusively. I seldom have problems with rotating heads and when I do it is usually skippers. I rotate the heads into position with #2 pins, adjust the antennae and cover with paper. I seldom mount papered material. The last time I attempted to relax papered material were some Marpesia that I was sent that were collected in the late 1970's. I used a little accent meat tenderizer in a small plastic container as relaxing chamber and leave the specimens 24 hours. I was suprised with the results. I cut the wing muscles with with an exacto knife and I had no problems positioning the wings. I have heard that the accent will cause stains, but I have not experience staining. Are there any other relaxing agents? ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From batchelor at dial.pipex.com Tue Apr 17 18:33:15 2001 From: batchelor at dial.pipex.com (Alan Batchelor) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:33:15 +0100 Subject: Cocoon identification? References: <3ad557bb$0$12244$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> Message-ID: <3adcc497$0$15030$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> Thanks for posts and emails, everyone. The cocoon is in my nephew's garden. I expect my great-niece will keep a close eye on it, she's an enthusiastic insect-watcher. There are plenty of food plants for L quercus around and it's common enough in the area, so having checked with a couple of photos I believe that's what it is. My experience of keeping pupae is that it's a good way of hatching out ichneumon wasps. I don't bother now. Alan Batchelor ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Sumairp at dex.pathlink.com Tue Apr 17 21:47:40 2001 From: Sumairp at dex.pathlink.com (Sumairp at dex.pathlink.com) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:47:40 GMT Subject: Stupid Question #917 References: <45F8A30CE009D2118F850000F805064D03B1E6A3@hqmail.gensym.com> Message-ID: <3adcefe5.64366628@news.eaa.com.au> On 14 Apr 2001 19:24:47 -0700, MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) abused bandwidth & wrote: >Sometimes it's difficult to rotate my little friends head after it's been >crooked over by the lie of its antennae in the envelope. You need to rotate >their little heads if you want their antennae to fan out nicely on the >spreading board. Most times it's easy. Sometimes their little heads get >stuck (especially the iddy bitty ones) - it can't be very comfortable. Any >recommendations (besides buying a camera...you hosers)? > >Mark Walker >Oceanside, CA Stupid Answer #1814 I use micro entomological pins. Can't lay my hands on the list # just now, but they're about 1/2" long, no head & sharpened at one end. Insert at the back of the head behind the eyes at an angle of about 30 degrees to the vertical. Rotate the head to the desired postion, then push the pin thru until it seats in the setting board channel. Adjust the height of the head accordingly, then set the antennae. Support the head as you push the pin through, otherwise you might just tear it off the thorax. Works for me. Cheers, Chris Hocking Gold Coast, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Wed Apr 18 15:19:54 2001 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:19:54 -0700 Subject: California Academy of Sciences Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAE9E@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Hello all. I need to secure photos or digital images of a butterfly lectotype that resides in the collection of the California Academy of Sciences. Can anyone provide a contact person who has access to said collection and who might be able to provide an image of a particular specimen ?? Thank you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Wed Apr 18 15:23:12 2001 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:23:12 -0700 Subject: multicaudata vs multicaudatus Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAE9F@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> I seem to recall some postings on this topic with respect to whether Papilio is masculine or feminine but cannot recall what the bottom line was. I recently remembered to check my ancient latin/english dictionary and it claims that Papilio is masculine which suggests for those of us who chose to follow the ICZN rules that multicaudatus is the correct spelling. Does anyone have reason to disagree with papilio as masculine ? if so, why. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From bangr at ld.onet.pl Thu Apr 19 10:43:58 2001 From: bangr at ld.onet.pl (Grzesiek B) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:43:58 +0200 Subject: Specimen labels Message-ID: <9bmtkc$d2p$1@news.tpi.pl> Can anyone send me a samples of specimen labels. Thank you in advance. Greg bangr at ld.onet.pl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From cft6753 at vip.cybercity.dk Thu Apr 19 12:06:10 2001 From: cft6753 at vip.cybercity.dk (Poul Evald Hansen) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:06:10 +0200 Subject: morpheus? Message-ID: <9bn21a$5ng$1@news.cybercity.dk> Does there exist a moth with its name including "morpheus" and for that case, what is its full name? Poul Evald Hansen pevh at vip.cybercity.dk ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From tthomas at nrcan.gc.ca Thu Apr 19 12:55:42 2001 From: tthomas at nrcan.gc.ca (Thomas, Tony) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:55:42 -0400 Subject: morpheus? Message-ID: <8DD0880D6C19D111B6DA00805FFE8CC8913007@s2-fre-r1.fcmr.forestry.ca> At least 1 in NA and Europe: Caradrina morpheus (Hufnagel, 1766) Dr. A.W. Thomas Research Scientist Canadian Forest Service - Atlantic Forestry Centre Natural Resources Canada PO Box 4000 1350 Regent Street Fredericton, NB E3B 5P7 e-mail: tthomas at nrcan.gc.ca 'phone (506) 452-3523 FAX (506) 452-3525 Giant Silkmoth website: http://www.atl.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/fbn/md/family_e.html Illustrated Checklist of Fundy National Park Moths website: http://www.atl.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/fbn/md/family-s_e.html > ---------- > From: Poul Evald Hansen[SMTP:cft6753 at vip.cybercity.dk] > Reply To: cft6753 at vip.cybercity.dk > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 1:06 PM > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: morpheus? > > Does there exist a moth with its name including "morpheus" and for that > case, what is its full name? > > Poul Evald Hansen > pevh at vip.cybercity.dk > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Thu Apr 19 20:56:43 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:56:43 -0700 Subject: Scales Message-ID: <3ADF894B.4FED1D81@extremezone.com> The Astronomy Shop in Phoenix is going out of business. As a result I couldn't resist purchasing a compound binocular miscroscope at a very good price. I don't need one (as least for now), but I always wanted one. My new toy. It is interesting to observe wing scales at 1000 magnification through an oil immersion lens. Stan ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From zagatti at versailles.inra.fr Fri Apr 20 05:02:21 2001 From: zagatti at versailles.inra.fr (Pierre Zagatti) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:02:21 +0200 Subject: collecting in France? References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010411094851.00b3b668@mail.it.su.se> Message-ID: <3ADFFB1D.621ED33@versailles.inra.fr> A little bit late to reply (just after _cold_ holydays) : The list of species protected in France (all Invertebrates): http://www.inra.fr/Internet/Hebergement/OPIE-Insectes/observatoire/pro-fran.htm The list of species protected in the Paris area (Region Ile-de-France) : http://www.inra.fr/Internet/Hebergement/OPIE-Insectes/observatoire/pro-rp.htm The site is in French, but without any problems for scientific names :-) -no flame against US lovers of common names- :-))) There are no other regional lists, but there are sometimes local restrictions : National Parks (not in Carcassonne area), natural reserves (generally closed) and many private areas not always closed. Have a good day, Pierre Zagatti ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us Fri Apr 20 10:24:29 2001 From: Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us (Mike Quinn) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:24:29 -0500 Subject: FW: FW: What happened to our biggest moths? Message-ID: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD198CB@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Boettner [mailto:boettner at ent.umass.edu] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 11:03 PM To: Mike Quinn Subject: Re: FW: What happened to our biggest moths? Dear Mike, I have been in the field for 10 days and so sorry for the slow response. Actually a tough question. There is some pretty good evidence that Compsilura had some effect on gypsy moth at moderate densities. Juli Gould in our lab did a neat study ( 1990 Journal of Animal Ecology 59:pages 213-233) on this subject using gypsy moth releases of different densities ( 40,000-1 million gypsy moths per ha.) and found that Compsilura was acting in a density dependant mannor ( ie over 90% mortality of the biggest gypsy moth releases). All of her artificial plots were completely wiped out by a sweet of flies, wasps and beetles. So it likely that the fly does delay the time between outbreaks. I am working on another pest (browntail moth) which the fly was also released to control and this may have worked incredibly well...almost drove it to extinction...we hope to have a paper on this within a year or so. As for tent caterpillars...from my limited view Compsilura seems to have no effect. Most of the tent caterpillar tachinid flies are extreme specialists as they have to be able to deal with the protective webs...so they have special feet for walking on webs without getting caught...even if they attact the cats while out of the web in feeding, the caterpillar would likely return to the web to die and the fly is still stuck when it tries to emerge. We just hired a tent caterpillar specialist ( Dr. Dylan Parry) and he has done some neat work that demonstrates the reason for what you observe. What seems to be important is how late the budbreak ( opening of the buds) is. I don't have his papers handy, but it has to do with something like .... if the development of the caterpillar slows even a small amount, it allows some of the later parasitoids to have a longer season and the caterpillars get nailed, but if its an early and warm spring the caterpillars can complete development before the parasitoids emerge...a constant arms race. Back to gypsy moth, what has finally worked quite well is the species specific fungus from Japan, Entomophaga maimaiga. We will still have some serious outbreaks following back to back drought years, but in western MA, we really haven't had a big outbreak since 1981. We have documented the fungus is having a major effect in a few different papers. Hope that helps. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Quinn To: George Boettner (E-mail) Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:18 PM Subject: FW: FW: What happened to our biggest moths? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Gochfeld [mailto:gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 9:18 PM > To: Leps-L (E-mail) > Subject: Re: FW: What happened to our biggest moths? > > > Question to Jeff Boetner or anyone else. > > How effective were the flies in controlling either Tent Caterpillars or > Gypsy Moths. Tent Caterpillars here (NJ) seem to be influenced more by > how cold the winter gets (not very cold in most recent years) and Gypsy > Moths came and went and elicited heavy spraying suggesting the > biological control was not very effective. > > M. Gochfeld > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From hankb at theriver.com Fri Apr 20 12:20:17 2001 From: hankb at theriver.com (Hank & Priscilla Brodkin) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:20:17 -0700 Subject: Book From LepSoc Message-ID: <3AE061C1.36D1B12A@theriver.com> Forgive the cross-posting, but I would like to strongly recommend "Basic Techniques for Observing and Studying Moths & Butterflies" by William Winter Jr. I received my copy the other day and I can't put it down. Slanted toward the beginning and intermediate leper, this rather sizable volume is packed with information and techniques no matter what form your interest may take. And it does answer many of the FAQs asked on these mail lists and has input from quite a few of the names you have seen here. Chapters, with much detail, include Observing, Photography, record keeping, Identification, Gardening for Lepidoptera, Rearing, several on Collecting and specimen preparation, which include information that even observers and photographers might find useful such as baiting, and even a chapter on Hazards in the Field. Please note that there is a lot of stuff on collecting and proper handling and care of collections, whcih even though I don't collect I found fascinating. I pasted the following from the Lepidopterists' Society web site (http://www.furman.edu/~snyder/snyder/lep/techmanual.htm) :(they published this as their Memoir #5) Basic Techniques for Observing and Studying Moths and Butterflies, by William D. Winter Jr., was recently published by the Lepidopterists? Society. The book has 444 pages arranged in 13 chapters and 15 appendices, and is fully indexed. Topics range from rearing, gardening, collecting, photography, to collection valuation. Links to images of the cover and a html version of the table of contents are below. Both amateurs and professionals will find this book useful. To order, send check or money order payable to the Lepidopterists? Society to: Ken Bliss, Publications Mgr. P. O. Box 1366 Edison, NJ 08817 Specify Memoir 5, Basic Techniques Manual. Price postpaid: $29 for members of the Lepidopterists' Society residing in the US and Canada, $31 for members outside of the US and Canada, $44 for nonmembers in the US and Canada, $46 for nonmembers outside the US and Canada. -- Hank & Priscilla Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" by Bob Stewart, Priscilla and Hank Brodkin - due August 2001 http://pages.zdnet.com/hbrodkin/butterfliesofarizona/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Fri Apr 20 16:12:57 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:12:57 -0400 Subject: common names Message-ID: <007701c0c9d6$4b0866c0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> The following line is lifted from a recent post by Pierre Zagatti on the subject of where to, and not to, collect in France. "The [web] site is in French, but without any problems for scientific names :-) -no flame against US lovers of common names- :-)))" This line prompts me to return to the topic of common vs. scientific names. As I have mentioned before, I use common names at times, and for some taxa or families most of the time. There is certainly a place for common names. That placed however, is no where near the same rung on the ladder as scientific names. In this post I am focusing on the international linguistic aspect of common vs. technical "names". (Common names are true names. Scientific "names" are not names at all but technical classifications - water (English name) agua (Spanish name) vs. H2O, Gold vs. Au, etc. Common names vary greatly - and always will. They can never be standardized until all inhabitants of earth speak only one "common" tongue. Scientific terms on the other hand are already recognized, read, and understood by everyone on Earth. Not only in speech but in text. Ok, some will say they want to just standardize "common" names in the various linguistic regions - e.g. North America. WHY? They are already standardized via scientific classification. The argument with this is that the technical names seem to be multiple choice and only one name is needed - a common name. A common name that the proponents of see as something that will not ever change - like Spring Azure. OOPS until a researcher finds out that there are 10 different species under this name and then guess what. Common names are changed, added to or subtracted. Common names seem wise to those who have little or no grasp of the rules of scientific language and systematic taxonomy - amateurs (beginners). And here is where I agree with common names - they are useful for beginners. However, to me, many of the U.S. promoters of common name usage don't just see them as a starting point, they seem to see these American English names as the end point to the degree that scientific names should be done away with - in anything other than dry academic writings. I will also say this. The line of reasoning that something (anything) is too complicated for some or most people to grasp is condescending and elitist on the part of those who look down the masses. I remember the first time -decades ago- I heard the argument that these Latinized names were to hard for beginners to learn and understand. As a beginner myself then and an observer of the debate, that seemed reasonable to me. That is untill it was pointed out that children (under 6) use and understand Latinized names just fine - Hippopotamus, Tyrannosaurus rex, Papilio etc..... RG ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Fri Apr 20 20:11:46 2001 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:11:46 -0500 Subject: common names Message-ID: <20010420.191148.-219975.1.mbpi@juno.com> Hi all, I'd like to offer my rebuttal on Ron's "elitist" post on "common names of butterflies." At the risk of sounding "amateurish," I find the use of common names a helpful frame-of-reference. For example: when someone on this listserv starts expounding on some foreign species or subspecies, and doesn't even give "a clue" to the family of that species...such as nymphalid or lycenid, much less "brush foot" or "gossamer wings," it's very hard for someone who isn't familiar with the "taxa of the world" to get a picture of what the elitist is referring to (!) To my way of thinking, it is a passive-aggressive ploy to "exclude" anyone who hasn't been studying butterflies for the past 25 years...let them "figure it out" (!) It seems to me you don't really "want" to educate the ignorant masses, and would much prefer to keep your "coveted and covert knowledge" just that. Come on, Ron! Give us credit where credit is due. When I studied systematics in college, we always started with Family Characteristics. Learning the "Family" first and foremost, allowed one to categorize an individual: be it one of a few or a thousand, depending on the plant or animal. From that point, one can use a field guide to determine the genus and species. Learning scientific names is easy if you SEE the subject a number of times, or study its dentition or carpals or genitalia under a dissecting microscope. How many people actually have that opportunity at their disposal?! Believe me, if you were actually willing to impart even a tad bit more "information" than the majority of you do, the subjugated amateurs on this listserv would "fly" They might even feel free to "express" themselves (!) Then...watch out!!!! Maybe that's what you're afraid of ?! M.B. Prondzinski USA On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:12:57 -0400 "Ron Gatrelle" writes: > The following line is lifted from a recent post by Pierre Zagatti on > the > subject of where to, and not to, collect in France. > > "The [web] site is in French, but without any problems for > scientific names > :-) > -no flame against US lovers of common names- :-)))" > > This line prompts me to return to the topic of common vs. scientific > names. > As I have mentioned before, I use common names at times, and for > some taxa > or families most of the time. There is certainly a place for common > names. > That placed however, is no where near the same rung on the ladder as > scientific names. In this post I am focusing on the international > linguistic aspect of common vs. technical "names". (Common names are > true > names. Scientific "names" are not names at all but technical > classifications - water (English name) agua (Spanish name) vs. > H2O, Gold > vs. Au, etc. > > Common names vary greatly - and always will. They can never be > standardized > until all inhabitants of earth speak only one "common" tongue. > Scientific > terms on the other hand are already recognized, read, and understood > by > everyone on Earth. Not only in speech but in text. > > Ok, some will say they want to just standardize "common" names in > the > various linguistic regions - e.g. North America. WHY? They > are > already > standardized via scientific classification. > > The argument with this is that the technical names seem to be > multiple > choice > and only one name is needed - a common name. A common name that the > proponents of see as something that will not ever change - like > Spring > Azure. OOPS until a researcher finds out that there are 10 different > species > under this name and then guess what. Common names are changed, added > to or > subtracted. > > Common names seem wise to those who have little or no grasp of the > rules of scientific language and systematic taxonomy - amateurs > (beginners). And here is where I agree with common names - they are > useful > for beginners. However, to me, many of the U.S. promoters of common > name > usage don't just see them as a starting point, they seem to see > these > American English names as the end point to the degree that > scientific names > should be done away with - in anything other than dry academic > writings. > > I will also say this. The line of reasoning that something > (anything) is > too complicated for some or most people to grasp is condescending > and > elitist on the part of those who look down the masses. I remember > the first > time -decades ago- I heard the argument that these Latinized names > were to > hard for beginners to learn and understand. As a beginner myself > then and > an observer of the debate, that seemed reasonable to me. That is > untill it > was pointed out that children (under 6) use and understand Latinized > names > just fine - Hippopotamus, Tyrannosaurus rex, Papilio etc..... > > RG > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Fri Apr 20 21:06:11 2001 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:06:11 -0700 Subject: common names Message-ID: The argument that scientific names are too hard to learn is, as Ron observed, nonsense. It's pretty easy to prove, too: Aster, Chrysanthemum, Geranium, Rhododendron, Coreopsis, Croton, Delphinium, Petunia, Azalea, Cosmos, Philodendron, Cyclamen, Spiraea, Zinnia, Clematis, Iris, Gloxinia, Clarkia, Anemone, Agave, Yucca, Verbena, Amaryllis, Asparagus, Trillium, Cactus, Monstera, Cleome, Sedum, Lobelia, Lotus, Nasturtium, Ranunculus, Sequoia, Narcissus, Salvia, etc. (not to mention names that are almost the same in common use and Latin, like Rosa, Viola, Lilium, Pinus, Lupinus, Orchis, Tulipa). In other words, millions and millions of english-speaking people know and use scientific names all the time without even knowing it - so to argue that they are incapable of learning them is simply wrong. The fact is that it is only because people don't TEACH their kids scientific names for animals that they don't KNOW the scientific names for animals. Peace, Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Fri Apr 20 22:14:08 2001 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:14:08 -0500 Subject: Fw: Re: common names Message-ID: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: To: drdn at mail.utexas.edu Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:06:10 -0500 Subject: Re: common names Message-ID: <20010420.210613.-219975.6.mbpi at juno.com> Chris: You are puting words in my mouth. I do not appreciate that! Until YOU can give a step-by-step method for learning the scientific names of species YOU are "unfamiliar" with, than don't tell me I'm speaking "nonsense." As a professional actress: I have had to "learn" hundreds of scripts, songs, and dance steps. I learned dance through "sight" and muscle memory, and I learned scripts and songs through concentrated memorization or "hearing" tapes. Never underestimate the visual, audial and cognitive associations. "Words" are meaningless, unless they have a frame of reference. If you don't know Urdu, it has no meaning (!) Scientific nomenclature, in regards to speciation, is usually based on the discoverer, which has no point of reference except to the person who it was named after (!) It doesn't tell you anything about the characteristics of the individual being described. Children learn the names of dinosaurs and flowers through PICTURES or SOUND or exposure: not words. The brain is far more complex than you are willing to accede. "Parrots" can learn vocabulary without meaning....and even that can be argued. M.B. Prondzinski On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:35:36 -0500 "Chris J. Durden" writes: > What nonsense! > Granted there is no good world book of butterflies like, for > instance > Walker's Mammals of the World, but there are one or two that help > one get > oriented (e.g. Sbordoni & Forestiero, Butterflies of the World). > The majority of butterfly species have not had common names, > that is > names that folk naturalists know them by. Common names for > butterflies are > a very recent contrivance, invented for field guidebooks. I blame > the > meddling editors who want an "English" name to match each scientific > name > for a neat and symmetrical publication. Why do rare species need > common > names? Why do species of interest to only a handful of people need > common > names? > Note that the sites referred to by Dr. Zagatti list common > names. Some > of these are venerable, and almost all are over a century in usage. > That is > not true for North America! We have not had a naturalist population > comparable to that of Europe until very recently. > This is not a flame, it is a roar against anti-intellectualism! > Use the > proper name d*mm*t! > ..................Chris Durden > > At 07:11 PM 4/20/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >I'd like to offer my rebuttal on Ron's "elitist" post on "common > names of > >butterflies." > > > >At the risk of sounding "amateurish," I find the use of common > names a > >helpful frame-of-reference. > > > >For example: when someone on this listserv starts expounding on > some > >foreign species or subspecies, and doesn't even give "a clue" to > the > >family of that species...such as nymphalid or lycenid, much less > "brush > >foot" or "gossamer wings," it's very hard for someone who isn't > familiar > >with the "taxa of the world" to get a picture of what the elitist > is > >referring to (!) To my way of thinking, it is a passive-aggressive > ploy > >to "exclude" anyone who hasn't been studying butterflies for the > past 25 > >years...let them "figure it out" (!) It seems to me you don't > really > >"want" to educate the ignorant masses, and would much prefer to > keep your > >"coveted and covert knowledge" just that. > > > >Come on, Ron! Give us credit where credit is due. When I studied > >systematics in college, we always started with Family > Characteristics. > >Learning the "Family" first and foremost, allowed one to categorize > an > >individual: be it one of a few or a thousand, depending on the > plant or > >animal. From that point, one can use a field guide to determine > the > >genus and species. Learning scientific names is easy if you SEE > the > >subject a number of times, or study its dentition or carpals or > genitalia > >under a dissecting microscope. How many people actually have that > >opportunity at their disposal?! > > > >Believe me, if you were actually willing to impart even a tad bit > more > >"information" than the majority of you do, the subjugated amateurs > on > >this listserv would "fly" They might even feel free to "express" > >themselves (!) > > > >Then...watch out!!!! Maybe that's what you're afraid of ?! > > > >M.B. Prondzinski > >USA > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Fri Apr 20 22:42:01 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:42:01 -0400 Subject: Fw: Re: common names In-Reply-To: mbpi@juno.com "Fw: Re: common names" (Apr 20, 9:14pm) References: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> Message-ID: <1010420224205.ZM15486@Gochfeld> In my teens and twenties I found I could learn the scientific names of birds and flowers with great ease. I could recite virtually all North American and about a third of the South American bird names. I was particularly fond of Euscarthmus margaritaceiventer (which I recently saw in South America, albeit now under a different generic name and perhaps split as well). (Don't worry, the common English name hasn't changed). In my fifties I found it extremely difficult to learn the scientific names of the 150 butterfly species found in NJ, even though writing a book focused my attention over and over again on those few species. Are the names of butterflies intrinsically more difficult or meaningless than birds (maybe? all those Indian chiefs don't lend themselves to Latinization). Or maybe it has to do with the number of synapses. Or as a New Yorker columnist once said, by the time you are fifty your brain is just full of useless information (I think he mentioned the words to Volare as an example). He suggested downloading excess memories into the stomach region which has usually expanded substantially by that age. Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From hankb at theriver.com Fri Apr 20 22:56:02 2001 From: hankb at theriver.com (Hank & Priscilla Brodkin) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:56:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: Re: common names References: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> Message-ID: <3AE0F6C2.FCA0BB61@theriver.com> Lepers - A little reasonableness here. Use of standardized common names is being promoted in order to draw more folks into the study and appreciation of butterflies, thus hopefully leading to support of their conservation. It worked for birds. Some day most of the "great unwashed" will also see the benefit of learning the scientific names. In the meantime, chill! Cheers! -- Hank & Priscilla Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" by Bob Stewart, Priscilla and Hank Brodkin - due August 2001 http://pages.zdnet.com/hbrodkin/butterfliesofarizona/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sat Apr 21 02:20:22 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 02:20:22 -0400 Subject: Fw: Re: common names References: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> <1010420224205.ZM15486@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <00c901c0ca2b$26015580$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Mike's post is profound in my book. I don't think I am oversimplifying things by looking at myself and observing that when I "learned" my native butterfly "language" I was is my teens and twenties. That language was scientific names. (I am not even sure why that was as Holland, Klots, Comstock, etc had common names right there in their books. Hummm, I just realized this. It was not what was in the books, it was the words used by those collectors I corresponded and talked with that did it - THEY used the Latinized names - so I did too.) = My Mom and Dad spoke English and so I did too. Now that I am much older and common names have come into vogue - I very often have no idea what species or subspecies is being referred to - Here I am the mirrored antithesis of Mary Beth's post. I don't know if it is a skipper or a - see I don't even know if it is brushFoot or Brush feet or brushfoots. In almost 60 years I have never used those terms for leps families - except for skippers, hairstreaks, and swallowtails. (Thinking out loud as I go along here.) What I heard Mike say below is that the first set of names you learn are like a native language - be they scientific or common. Thus, when one is much older and a new terminology is presented it is very much like trying to learn a non native tongue at that stage of one's life. I think we all know that the best time to become multilingual is before one becomes a teen. Old minds don't like new terms for familiar (Mary's valid point) learned visual-word associations. When the average American goes to some non English part of the world they think - "Why can't these people talk so we can understand them." Obviously, when non English speaking people visit "our" area they think the same thing - For example "Why can't these Americans speak French!" Why can't the birders become butterflyers just admit that the "reason" they want to use common names is that that is the "language" they are used to? I can admit the opposite. It is not "natural" for me to use common names - and I am not about to learn them all - especially since many of the current NABA type names are CHANGES from the few I did learn years ago. Just because it is "natural" for me to use scientific names and "natural" for "you" to use common names does not mean EITHER is WRONG in our everyday leping. Now, if it was just a matter of which group of "names" to use in everyday life we would have a draw - a stalemate. But as I have often stated, scientific "names" are actually "technical terms" - and in that area common names are deaf, dumb, and blind - totally non functional. Further, Mary's statement that "... Scientific nomenclature, in regards to speciation, is _usually_ based on the discoverer, which has no point of reference except to the person who it was _named after..." is so far from demonstrateable truth that this remark infers an underlying political agenda. The vast majority of organisms are _not_ named for their discoverer. A great many are Latinized descriptions of place of origin or primary diagnostic character. Some are frivolous or partronyms. Mary may not have had the following in mind - at all - but there are those who think that "collectors" are largely motivate to catch and kill leps only in hope one will be named after them. This is a hyper-environmental wacko alarmist scare tactic and myth. The ability of accurate identification does not come by learning names - common or scientific. It comes only from learning organisms. A Rose by any other name is still the same. Well, not really. To the beginner this may be true. But to the true student, there are lots of different Rosaceae: Potentilla, Rubus, Sanguisorba, Agrimonia, Filipendula, Geum, Sorbus, Rosa, Aruncus, Alchemilla, Duchesnea, Fragaria, Potentilla, Waldsteinia, Gillenia, Anaplobatus, Dalibarda, Sanguisorba, Spiraea, Physocarpus, Pyrus, Malus, Crataegus, Amelanchier, Prunus, and Chrysobalanus for starters in the southeast U.S. genera. And yes, Padus virginiana is Choke Cherry - and most who "know" the organism "refer" to it only as Choke Cherry. But how many know that it is a Rosaceae? Or confuse it with P. serotina (Black Cherry)? And how many confuse the organism P. serotina serotina and P. serotina alabamensis? (There is nothing sub between subspecies - another topic.) Ones status as an "expert" or an "amaeteur" lepidopterist has little to nothing to do with ones academic education. It has everything to do with the depth of one's personal experiential knowledge conjunctive with the breadth of one's study of in-depth lepidopteran literature. I have not spent one day in college. I have spent almost my entire life reading butterfly books, scientific butterfly journals, visiting museums, corresponding with experts, collecting, watching, rearing, recording, asking about, and researching North American butterflies. No butterfly beginner should be insulted by the being called an amaeteur. For that is what beginners in everything are. Now, no one gets to the position of expert, in anything, without a lot of time, specialized study, and work. And you know what life teaches? That when you become and adult (expert) you put away childish (amaeteur) things. RG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gochfeld" To: ; Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 10:42 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Re: common names > In my teens and twenties I found I could learn the scientific names of > birds and flowers with great ease. I could recite virtually all North > American and about a third of the South American bird names. I was > particularly fond of Euscarthmus margaritaceiventer (which I recently > saw in South America, albeit now under a different generic name and > perhaps split as well). (Don't worry, the common English name hasn't > changed). > > In my fifties I found it extremely difficult to learn the scientific > names of the 150 butterfly species found in NJ, even though writing a > book focused my attention over and over again on those few species. > > Are the names of butterflies intrinsically more difficult or > meaningless than birds (maybe? all those Indian chiefs don't lend > themselves to Latinization). > > Or maybe it has to do with the number of synapses. Or as a New Yorker > columnist once said, by the time you are fifty your brain is just full > of useless information (I think he mentioned the words to Volare as an > example). He suggested downloading excess memories into the stomach > region which has usually expanded substantially by that age. > > Mike Gochfeld > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sat Apr 21 04:30:15 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 04:30:15 -0400 Subject: Fw: Re: common names References: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> <3AE0F6C2.FCA0BB61@theriver.com> Message-ID: <00d801c0ca3d$4add3240$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Anyone How will "standardizing" common names work to draw people to study and appreciate butterflies? If we put a bunch of cute common names on fly larvae will people be drawn to study maggots? People have always been drawn to butterflies, birds, and flowers by their incredible natural beauty not by their human imparted names. The reverse is true with snakes, rats, bats, and roaches. Miss World becomes such because she is a for real babe. It does not matter if here name is Blob Liftherfat. But if miss Easy Honey is as ugly as the day is long, she will loose despite her name. > It worked for birds. No "it" didn't. Birds worked for birds. This statement says that if birders had not affixed a lot of pleasant, everyday names to birds no one would have been interested in them or given a rats behind what happened to them? No, I am wrong here. It was not said that the establishment of common names alone drew people (who otherwise would have never gotten involved) into birding. It was said that had they not affixed "standardized" names etc... Funny, they already had "standardized" names - as do lepidoptera - thorough systematic taxonomy as regulated by the ICZN. Reasonableness? Common names are fine as such. They are nice, fun, pleasant, ok, preferred by most in everyday communication. However, they have nothing to do with reason (intellectual wisdom). There is a problem though. Those who are overemphasizing and overusing common names are also, at least implying, that scientific names are in some obscure manner counterproductive or even detrimental to "the cause." Together with the fact that these same people don't like subspecies (nearly all subspecies are now lumped under their species common name in the popular lit.), they are greatly assisting in the dumbing down of the awareness of the evolutionarily unique segregates and populations that are well delineated in the scientific literature. Literature that is obscure to both the unwashed masses and the new butterfly hobbyists/enthusiasts. RG PS Again, this is editorial material and is not intended to have any reflection on the Brodkin's in any way. They have just as much right to post what ever they want as anyone one else. I know their intents are honorable and pure to work for the benefit of butterflies and moths. Thus, I value all that they DO while differing, in some areas, with what they say. Any difference between us in philosophy or methodology does not mean there is any difference between us in character. -- Character being what we really are, while reputation is only what others think we are. Ditto cheers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hank & Priscilla Brodkin" To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 10:56 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Re: common names > Lepers - > > A little reasonableness here. Use of standardized common names is being > promoted in order to draw more folks into the study and appreciation of > butterflies, thus hopefully leading to support of their conservation. > It worked for birds. > Some day most of the "great unwashed" will also see the benefit of > learning the scientific names. In the meantime, chill! > > Cheers! > -- > Hank & Priscilla Brodkin > Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ > SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association > http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html > "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" > by Bob Stewart, Priscilla and Hank Brodkin - due August 2001 > http://pages.zdnet.com/hbrodkin/butterfliesofarizona/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Sat Apr 21 05:58:23 2001 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:58:23 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: common names Message-ID: > Learning scientific names is easy if you SEE the subject a number of > times, or study its dentition or carpals or genitalia under a dissecting > microscope. How many people actually have that opportunity at their > disposal?! Learning scientific names _or_ common names can be accomplished with field guides and reference books. The same amount of information about the organism is required to assign the correct scientific name as to assign the correct common name. Also, common names aren't always very helpful. For example, today I saw a 'traurnitsa' in Fairbanks. I doubt very many people found that a useful identification! That's the Russian common name for _Nymphalis antiopa_, which North Americans call a Mourning Cloak, and Britishers call a Camberwell Beauty. None of these common names carries the addition- al information in the genus name _Nymphalis_. > Until YOU can give a step-by-step method for learning the scientific > names of species YOU are "unfamiliar" with, than don't tell me I'm > speaking "nonsense." When I moved to Fairbanks in 1965, I was immediately confronted with butterflies (and moths) I had never seen before. Furthermore, there were no local gurus whose brains I could pick. So here is _my_ step-by- step method: Locate the reference books covering the fauna of your region (and ideally a larger area so you can relate the region's species to their relatives in other regions). Collect (or photograph or observe or what- ever you do to encounter actual arganisms in the field. Compare the organisms with the information (pictures, genitalia, keys, text information, etc.) in the books until you have learned the local fauna. When this is done, you will know the scientific names (if you _want_ to), or the common names of the fauna of your region. If you run into problems, visit a major museum and talk with a specialist. If your region of choice is elsewhere, then you'll be limited to book-learning, and you may have some surprises if you should ever actually visit that region. :-) > Scientific nomenclature, in regards to speciation, is usually based on > the discoverer, which has no point of reference except to the person who > it was named after (!) It doesn't tell you anything about the character- > istics of the individual being described. And what does the word "Monarch' tell you about the characteristics of that butterfly? Or 'White Admiral'? (It's mainly black, and has nothing to do with the Navy. 'Admiral' is a contraction of 'Admirable', I gather.) Also, although some species are indeed named after the original collector, they are _not_ named after the describer--and most are named after neither of those. The scientific name does not _have_ to tell you about the species in itself. It is merely an index to the literature. It was the _pre-Linnean_ nomenclature that involved descriptive phrases--sometimes I think that many people would really like to throw out the Linnean system and go back to long descriptive phrases... But remember one thing--Leps-L is an _international_ list. If you want to be North American parochial, by all means use North American Eng- lish common names. But European and Asian and South American members will find your postings unintelligible. Out of courtesy to 'foreign' members (who, of course, think that _we_ are the foreigners) you should use scientific names whenever you are talking to the entire list. That may be 'elitist', but it's also appreciated by non-North American members (except Britishers, who would really like us all to use _their_ common names). Finally, if you really want to _learn_ about your species, you will need to know the scientific names just to access the literature. And that's why reference books have indices... Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From bengt.lindqvist at mbox303.swipnet.se Sat Apr 21 11:08:05 2001 From: bengt.lindqvist at mbox303.swipnet.se (A. Anka) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:08:05 +0200 Subject: SV: common names References: Message-ID: <5khE6.369$vR1.1552@nntpserver.swip.net> > Finally, if you really want to _learn_ about your species, you will > need to know the scientific names just to access the literature. And that's > why reference books have indices... > > Ken Philip > fnkwp at uaf.edu Brngt And all of us aint English speaking. I have a good suggestion. We can called N.antiopa Sorgmantel. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Sat Apr 21 12:34:52 2001 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy or Aud Fischer) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:34:52 -0700 Subject: common names References: Message-ID: <001e01c0ca83$c42a31c0$63dcc2cf@nysven> As I point out in the Butterflies of BC book (references are cited in the book), "Admiral" is not derived from "Admirable", that was an error perpetrated by Ford in his book on butterflies. The Latin name of the genus, Limenitis, means "harbour keeper". The common name was used before the Latin name, so it suggests that Limenitis is derived from the common name. An naval Admiral can be though of as a "harbour keeper" or guardian of a harbour, especially back in the days of sail when guarding harbours was a major naval function. That common English folk would have noted that Admirals, of both types, guard a location and dart out to intercept intruders and investigate their identity. Hence the use of Admiral for the butterfly. It will never be possible to prove this hypothesis, but it is better than any other I have heard. Cris Guppy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenelm Philip" To: Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 2:58 AM Subject: Re: common names > > > Learning scientific names is easy if you SEE the subject a number of > > times, or study its dentition or carpals or genitalia under a dissecting > > microscope. How many people actually have that opportunity at their > > disposal?! > > Learning scientific names _or_ common names can be accomplished > with field guides and reference books. The same amount of information > about the organism is required to assign the correct scientific name as > to assign the correct common name. > > Also, common names aren't always very helpful. For example, today > I saw a 'traurnitsa' in Fairbanks. I doubt very many people found that a > useful identification! That's the Russian common name for _Nymphalis > antiopa_, which North Americans call a Mourning Cloak, and Britishers > call a Camberwell Beauty. None of these common names carries the addition- > al information in the genus name _Nymphalis_. > > > Until YOU can give a step-by-step method for learning the scientific > > names of species YOU are "unfamiliar" with, than don't tell me I'm > > speaking "nonsense." > > When I moved to Fairbanks in 1965, I was immediately confronted > with butterflies (and moths) I had never seen before. Furthermore, there > were no local gurus whose brains I could pick. So here is _my_ step-by- > step method: Locate the reference books covering the fauna of your region > (and ideally a larger area so you can relate the region's species to their > relatives in other regions). Collect (or photograph or observe or what- > ever you do to encounter actual arganisms in the field. Compare the > organisms with the information (pictures, genitalia, keys, text information, > etc.) in the books until you have learned the local fauna. When this is > done, you will know the scientific names (if you _want_ to), or the common > names of the fauna of your region. If you run into problems, visit a > major museum and talk with a specialist. > > If your region of choice is elsewhere, then you'll be limited to > book-learning, and you may have some surprises if you should ever actually > visit that region. :-) > > > Scientific nomenclature, in regards to speciation, is usually based on > > the discoverer, which has no point of reference except to the person who > > it was named after (!) It doesn't tell you anything about the character- > > istics of the individual being described. > > And what does the word "Monarch' tell you about the characteristics > of that butterfly? Or 'White Admiral'? (It's mainly black, and has nothing > to do with the Navy. 'Admiral' is a contraction of 'Admirable', I gather.) > Also, although some species are indeed named after the original collector, > they are _not_ named after the describer--and most are named after neither > of those. > > The scientific name does not _have_ to tell you about the species > in itself. It is merely an index to the literature. It was the _pre-Linnean_ > nomenclature that involved descriptive phrases--sometimes I think that > many people would really like to throw out the Linnean system and go back > to long descriptive phrases... > > But remember one thing--Leps-L is an _international_ list. If you > want to be North American parochial, by all means use North American Eng- > lish common names. But European and Asian and South American members will > find your postings unintelligible. Out of courtesy to 'foreign' members > (who, of course, think that _we_ are the foreigners) you should use > scientific names whenever you are talking to the entire list. That may be > 'elitist', but it's also appreciated by non-North American members (except > Britishers, who would really like us all to use _their_ common names). > > Finally, if you really want to _learn_ about your species, you will > need to know the scientific names just to access the literature. And that's > why reference books have indices... > > Ken Philip > fnkwp at uaf.edu > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From be496 at lafn.org Sat Apr 21 12:55:15 2001 From: be496 at lafn.org (Dameron, Wanda) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:55:15 -0700 Subject: common names References: Message-ID: <3AE1BB73.5ABD9233@lafn.org> In updating the Trinidad & Tobago List from Barcant, I found it very interesting that approximately 20% of the scientific names were out of date in less than 30 years! A change of 1 in 5 in that short period doesn't seem terribly stable....... -- Wanda Dameron Los Angeles, Ca. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Sat Apr 21 15:28:31 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:28:31 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: common names Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010421142817.00b2c5f0@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:26:33 -0500 >To: mbpi at juno.com >From: "Chris J. Durden" >Subject: Re: common names > >Now you seem to put words in my mouth? I never said anything about brain >complexity! You do not know what I think about brain complexity, memory >workaround methods or how we each overcome our natural handicaps. > > >At 09:06 PM 4/20/2001 -0500, you wrote: >>Chris: >> >>You are puting words in my mouth. I do not appreciate that! >> >>Until YOU can give a step-by-step method for learning the scientific >>names of species YOU are "unfamiliar" with, than don't tell me I'm >>speaking "nonsense." > >The method that works for me is look and see (like show and tell). If I >have seen a named picture of an organism I may remember its name the next >or (twentieth time) I see it. I do have to keep looking things up. I have >to see it because I am visually adept. After doing complete time in the >university system, I cannot sit through a lecture without falling asleep. >This is most embarrassing when I am the lecturer. People can tell me the >names of things but it does no good. I must see the thing and the name >before I can remember it. A thing has a name in every language. Some >languages may be more specific than others. Motyli in one language may be >butterflies and moths in another. A checkered skipper in one country may >have five names for distinct species in another country. That is why we >have scientific names. Most scientists have agreed to abide by >international conventions and rules for naming. A book in Japanese may be >of little use to us but we can look at the pictures, look at the numbers >for measurements and dates, and look at the scientific name to know what >is pictured and search elsewhere for more information. > > >>As a professional actress: I have had to "learn" hundreds of scripts, >>songs, and dance steps. I learned dance through "sight" and muscle >>memory, and I learned scripts and songs through concentrated memorization >>or "hearing" tapes. Never underestimate the visual, audial and cognitive >>associations. > >I have done the dance memory myself, but tapes do not work for me and I do >not remember music or bird calls. > >>"Words" are meaningless, unless they have a frame of reference. If you >>don't know Urdu, it has no meaning (!) > >Words have many shades of meaning. Simply there are cognate sounds that >may have real or erroneous relationship to meaning. Indo-european >languages can often be partially read phonetically, especially if simple >description in the scientific literature. Why is papalotl the name for a >butterfly or moth in Nahuatl of the Aztecs, and papilio the name for >butterfly in Latin, and papillon the name for butterfly or moth in French. >Xochiquetzalpapalotl (literally - flower-plumed-serpent-butterfly) is the >specific common name in Nahuatl, La Llamadora (literally - >the-golden-banded) is the specific common name in Mexican Spanish, and >Two-tailed Tiger Swallowtail is the specific common name in American >English for *Pterourus (Jasoniades) multicaudatus* as it is known to >scientists throughout the world, or *Papilio multicaudatus* to retired >scientists who have not kept up with the latest developments in our >taxonomic knowledge. > >>Scientific nomenclature, in >>regards to speciation, is usually based on the discoverer, which has no >>point of reference except to the person who it was named after (!) It >>doesn't tell you anything about the characteristics of the individual >>being described. > >That is correct. The name is like Bob or Jane. It tells you nothing about >the category named, and it is not supposed to. It is equivalent to a >unique species number but scientists have agreed through the ICZN that a >name is easier to work with than a number. > > >>Children learn the names of dinosaurs and flowers through PICTURES or >>SOUND or subtle nuances: not words. > >Yes I think that is what I just said above. I agree, and I think adults >use the same method. > >> The brain is far more complex than >>you are willing to accede. > >We know very little about the brain. I certainly perceive far more than >there is scientific explanation for. > > >>M.B. Prondzinski > >We would find it easier to learn the names of organisms if we had >guidebooks with good pictures with everything named. We do not yet. For >insects other than butterflies and maybe dragonflies the identification >manuals are without pictures of whole organisms for most of the species. >It takes a special mind to follow the arcane jargon in a key to grasses or >a key to beetles and construct a mental picture to recognize these things >in the field. I do not have such a mind and I need picture guides myself. >More than 95 percent of the organisms in North America are without >specific common names, have never been fully illustrated and have been >described only in the most minimal way. Take a cubic meter of habitat, >anywhere and start to try to identify every species you find and you will >end up with more difficult unknowns than knowns. These are not necessarily >new species. They are improperly documented species. In our culture there >are probably more experts familiar with the history of baseball and its >intricate details, than there are experts familiar with insects and their >specific diversity. >................................Chris Durden ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Sat Apr 21 16:24:17 2001 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy or Aud Fischer) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:24:17 -0700 Subject: common names References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010421145116.00b27850@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <008b01c0caa2$b0268100$63dcc2cf@nysven> I also have a childhood memory of being told that the various British naval fleets had admirals with black uniforms striped with different colors (red fleet, white fleet, blue fleet, etc). Hence red admiral, white admiral, etc. I have no idea if that is true, perhaps someone from Britain has some thoughts??? Cris. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris J. Durden" To: Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:53 PM Subject: Re: common names > Hey, that makes real good sense and explains red and white admirals, > related by behaviour more than by phylogeny. > ................Chris Durden > > At 09:34 AM 4/21/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >As I point out in the Butterflies of BC book (references are cited in the > >book), "Admiral" is not derived from "Admirable", that was an error > >perpetrated by Ford in his book on butterflies. The Latin name of the genus, > >Limenitis, means "harbour keeper". The common name was used before the Latin > >name, so it suggests that Limenitis is derived from the common name. An > >naval Admiral can be though of as a "harbour keeper" or guardian of a > >harbour, especially back in the days of sail when guarding harbours was a > >major naval function. That common English folk would have noted that > >Admirals, of both types, guard a location and dart out to intercept > >intruders and investigate their identity. Hence the use of Admiral for the > >butterfly. It will never be possible to prove this hypothesis, but it is > >better than any other I have heard. > > > >Cris Guppy > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From emengersen at admin.oldscollege.ab.ca Sat Apr 21 19:20:22 2001 From: emengersen at admin.oldscollege.ab.ca (Ernest Mengersen) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:20:22 -0600 Subject: common names Message-ID: The ENDLESS Debate!!! I remember reading somewhere that our dear old Monarch - Danaus plexippus (whatever happened to that thread and how is the migration going?) has had about 5 different scientific names but only one common name. So much for stability! Can anyone corroborate? Is that true or is it another tale? If names are for communication, then use what you feel most comfortable with, realizing that others, be they scientific name tossers, or common name flingers, might not communicate with you. Some people are exceptional with scientific names, others are hopeless. As long as we don't look down our noses at the others and make an ego trip of it. I have a ton of trouble with Covell's common names but don't understand a lot of the scientific jargon either. So one continues to work at them and the more you read, the more you write, the more you look at the specimens, the more likely you will get to "know" the insects. (I think the French have a special word for it.) Take care and who knows what the names will be in the future with the new phylogenetic taxonomy. Ernest ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Sat Apr 21 20:03:23 2001 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 16:03:23 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: common names Message-ID: > The Latin name of the genus, Limenitis, means "harbour keeper". According to Brown's 'Composition of Scientific Words', 'limen' in Latin means 'threshold'. 'limeno' in Greek is 'harbor'. Note that 'Gatekeeper' is another English common name--that could be close to 'Limenitis' if the word is actually Latin. As regards Ford's version, note the following: I have a reproduction copy of Moses Harris' 'The Aurelian' (1766, reprinted in 1986). In the plates are shown: 1) The Admirable (now _Vanessa atalanta_). 2) The White Admirable (now _Ladoga camilla_). The editor of the reprint mentions that _V. atalanta_ was also called the 'Scarlet Admirable' by Moffet (in some later editions of his works. I trie to check this in a reproduction copy of 'The Theater of Insects', 1658-- but no names were given by the figures of butterfiles in that edition. He also states that 'Admiral' was used by Albin & Dutfield well before Harris' time, though apparently later than Moffet (or Muffet, or Mouffet, as the name is variously spelled). So, _both_ names (Admirable & Admiral) have been used far back in time, but 'Admirable' appears to be the older one. I suspect the complete etymology may be more complicated than either Ford's version or Guppy's version... Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Sat Apr 21 20:12:28 2001 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 16:12:28 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: common names Message-ID: > I remember reading somewhere that our dear old Monarch - Danaus plexippus > ...has had about 5 different scientific names but only one common name. Would that matters were as straightforward as that! According to Jackie Miller's 'The Common Names of North American Butterflies', the Monarch has been called by the following common names: Monarch Milkweed Butterfly Storm Fritillary Wanderer Archippus Then, to make matters more amusing, I have to add the odd fact that in Alaska and the Yukon, most non-lepidopterists call the Canadian Tiger Swallowtail the Monarch. There's even a 'Monarch Road' in Fairbanks, named after all the swallowtails seen at damp earth on the road. Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From pwbelg at clara.co.uk Sun Apr 22 01:22:41 2001 From: pwbelg at clara.co.uk (Paul (ELG)) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 01:22:41 BST Subject: UK Insect Fair on May 13th Message-ID: <01c0745a$769aa9a0$744f08c3@paul> Dear Friends, The E.L.G. is holding its 7th Spring Livestock Fair on 13th May 2001. For more details see http://www.pwbelg.clara.net/fairs/index.html -- Paul W. Batty (Editor E.L.G.) The Entomological Livestock Group has over 600 Members. Website: http://www.pwbelg.clara.net/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From beebuzz at kiva.net Sat Apr 21 22:35:55 2001 From: beebuzz at kiva.net (Liz Day) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 21:35:55 -0500 Subject: common names In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010421212721.00aa89a0@b.pop.kiva.net> >I remember reading that .... Monarch - Danaus plexippus has had about 5 different scientific names... *grin* If true, it's been making people crabby for a long time: In _Flowers and Insects_ (1928), Charles Robertson wrote: "[species lists] .... I did not care to rewrite and rearrange them... After changing _Danais archippus_ to _Anosia plexippus_ it is a little tiresome to change it back to its former name, and then to _Danaus_..... The older names usually have more important relation to anthecological literature. Authors will have to use them whether they like them or not." (Yikes!) Liz ------------------------------------------------------------- Liz Day Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA (40 N, ~86 W) USDA zone 5b. Winters ~20F, summers ~85F. Formerly temperate deciduous forest. daylight at kiva.net www.kiva.net/~daylight ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From hahaha at sexyfun.net Sat Apr 21 22:37:56 2001 From: hahaha at sexyfun.net (Hahaha) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 22:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! Message-ID: <200104220237.WAA29780@gr.its.yale.edu> Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a *huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven Dwarfs enter... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dwarf4you.exe Type: application/octet-stream Size: 23040 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010421/94174664/attachment.exe From mtyner4 at home.com Sat Apr 21 22:50:47 2001 From: mtyner4 at home.com (mtyner4) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 21:50:47 -0500 Subject: CAUTION CAUTION Message-ID: Someone just posted ?HAHAHA? about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. I believe it may be a virus. I have deleted iot already. Use extreme CAUTION. Mike Tyner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010421/d469c0de/attachment.html From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sat Apr 21 23:02:24 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 23:02:24 -0400 Subject: Fw: Re: common names References: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> <1010420224205.ZM15486@Gochfeld> <00c901c0ca2b$26015580$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3AE18DE3.3C7B6CD7@ns.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <012a01c0cad8$a8233440$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Webster" To: "Ron Gatrelle" Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Re: common names > > > Ron Gatrelle wrote: > > > > And yes, Padus virginiana is Choke Cherry - and > > Hi Ron, Apr 21, 2001 > When did _Prunus virginiana_ become _Padus virginiana_? > Padus is (was?) considered a subgenus of Prunus by some. My error. I should have written Prunus (Padus) virginiana. RG > > > > And you know what life teaches? That when you become and adult > > (expert) you put away childish (amaeteur) things. > > Life has taught me that we are all living for the first time and that we > are therefore, in all important respects, amateurs. The Big picture does diminish the ego, doesn't it. Thanks, Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Sat Apr 21 23:31:20 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 23:31:20 -0400 Subject: Cute common names for maggots In-Reply-To: "Ron Gatrelle" "Re: Fw: Re: common names" (Apr 21, 4:30am) References: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> <3AE0F6C2.FCA0BB61@theriver.com> <00d801c0ca3d$4add3240$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <1010421233123.ZM9214@Gochfeld> I recently returned from Brazil harboring three Bot Fly larvae (maggots) a-growing in my hand. People found these creatures fascinating (and some called them gross, as well). They were particularly interesting after about four weeks, when you could see their breathing tubes through the holes that they kept open (like seals in ice). Little pink bubbles rose and fell several times a minute. But people really found it interesting to look at the creature (both in vivo and in plastico after I had extracted them. They could relate to the name BOT FLY (and of course, I'm not sure exactly what species they really are, so the generic appellation, BOT FLY, suffices nicely. M. Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Sat Apr 21 23:33:16 2001 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 19:33:16 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: common names Message-ID: > A change of 1 in 5 in that short period doesn't seem terribly stable..... Those who prefer to use common names seem to have a real craving for stability at all costs. The sad fact is that we are still learning about butterfly taxonomy--and no nomenclature can remain stable during taxonomic progress. I am reminded of my favorite quotation from James Stephens: "Finality is death. Perfection is finality. Nothing is perfect. There are lumps in it." I became interested in butterflies in 1939--and I've seen a lot of lumps since! And it works both ways. Take, for example, _Erebia youngi_. This species was described in 1900 by Holland--and has remained _E. youngi_ ever since (except for Scott, who lumps it with _E. dabanensis_--an assignment I strongly disagree with). For most of that time, it had a perfectly good common name: Young's Alpine. Then NABA, in their infinite wisdom, decided to change that to Scott's 'Four-dotted Alpine'. That in itself was a blow to common-name stability--but it gets even better. There are no fewer than _four_ species of North American _Erebia_ which fit the designation 'Four-dotted Alpine' (provided you know that the 4 dots occur on a single forewing, a condition which that name does not itself specify). Two related species in NE Russia also fit this name, unless you follow Scott (and NABA) and lump them with the NA species. (By the way, _E. youngi_ spawned two sibling species (_E. lafontainei_ and _E. occulta_) recently, both of which had been sitting in museum collections for years under _E. youngi_.) So here's a scientific name which is both more stable, and more useful, than the current (NABA) common name. I have seen NA nomenclature change from Holland (up until the 1950s) through Klots (1951) and the dos Passos checklist (1964), and then to the Miller-Brown Catalogue (1981) and its supplement (1989) and then to the reaction against the splitting in Miller-Brown as shown in Layberry et al (1998) and Opler (1992 & 1999). I'm sure I will see a few more changes before I vanish from the scene--but this is nothing to fear. I really hope people don't want to stop change--that's the one way to be sure you'll never learn anything... Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From NAVMSE-MAIL at mail.umext.maine.edu Sun Apr 22 00:02:23 2001 From: NAVMSE-MAIL at mail.umext.maine.edu (NAV for Microsoft Exchange-MAIL) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:02:23 -0400 Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected a virus in a message you sent. The inf ected attachment was deleted. Message-ID: <0C6C09E85C40D411998500C00D016DC6C49BE5@mail.umext.maine.edu> Recipient of the infected attachment: Don Barry\Inbox Subject of the message: digest 1424 One or more attachments were deleted Attachment embedmsg.msg was Deleted for the following reasons: Virus W95.Hybris.worm was found in dwarf4you.exe within embedmsg.msg. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1795 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010422/08164ae8/attachment.bin From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Sun Apr 22 01:53:19 2001 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy or Aud Fischer) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 22:53:19 -0700 Subject: CAUTION CAUTION References: Message-ID: <010601c0caf1$a1f6a980$63dcc2cf@nysven> The HAHAHA virus is real. It has been around for a couple months. Delete it!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: mtyner4 To: Leps-L Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 7:50 PM Subject: CAUTION CAUTION Someone just posted "HAHAHA" about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. I believe it may be a virus. I have deleted iot already. Use extreme CAUTION. Mike Tyner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010421/9a286fb8/attachment.html From bugzoo at netvision.net.il Thu Apr 19 02:59:50 2001 From: bugzoo at netvision.net.il (ilan ben yosef) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:59:50 +0200 Subject: red & white admiral needed Message-ID: <3ADE8CE6.292F594C@netvision.net.il> I need for red and/or white admiral, about 30-50 for breeding. as soon as posible. might be in exchange for other species of butterflies or insects from Israel. please contact directly to my e-mail adress. Ilan ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Sun Apr 22 04:46:12 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 03:46:12 -0500 Subject: common names, effect Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010422033947.00b27710@pop3.norton.antivirus> I and others have noticed that on several lists, including this one now, discussion on the topic of scientific and common names usually elicits a bombardment of virus. Recently the virus has been enclosed in the dwarf package. As far as we can tell these postings originate somewhere up New England way. It looks like someone has a pathological problem with our criticism of the common name movement. How sad. ..........Chris Durden ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From NAVMSE-TPWD-MX1 at tpwd.state.tx.us Sun Apr 22 05:49:58 2001 From: NAVMSE-TPWD-MX1 at tpwd.state.tx.us (NAV for Microsoft Exchange-TPWD-MX1) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 04:49:58 -0500 Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected a virus in a message you sent. The inf ected attachment was deleted. Message-ID: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CB58C10@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Recipient of the infected attachment: Mike Quinn\Inbox\Leps\Leps-L Subject of the message: digest 1424 One or more attachments were deleted Attachment embedmsg.msg was Deleted for the following reasons: Virus W95.Hybris.worm was found in dwarf4you.exe within embedmsg.msg. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1799 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010422/92932ba0/attachment.bin From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Sun Apr 22 06:19:16 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 06:19:16 -0400 Subject: Fw: Re: common names In-Reply-To: "Ron Gatrelle" "Re: Fw: Re: common names" (Apr 21, 11:02pm) References: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> <1010420224205.ZM15486@Gochfeld> <00c901c0ca2b$26015580$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <3AE18DE3.3C7B6CD7@ns.sympatico.ca> <012a01c0cad8$a8233440$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Message-ID: <1010422061919.ZM15510@Gochfeld> Padus is (was?) considered a subgenus of Prunus by some. My error. I should have written Prunus (Padus) virginiana. RG I don't think that form is anywhere stated. However, including a name in [square brackets] has sometimes been used to identify members of a superspecies. I felt the same way when the name of the Black-capped Chickadee was changed from Parus to Poecile. But that's only because it had been Parus for my entire lifetime. It used to be Poecile a hundred years ago. The 50 year rule wouldn't apply, because the current name change was on biologic grounds (generic reassignment) rather than on nomenclatorial grounds. With regard to whether 20% of the names have changed, that is an artifact of how many species there are in genera or families that have been closely scrutinized and "revised". I still think that scientific names have more spatial stability and common names more temporal stability (independent of how they sound and how easy they are to learn). Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From viceroy at gate.net Sun Apr 22 07:03:36 2001 From: viceroy at gate.net (Anne Kilmer) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 07:03:36 -0400 Subject: CAUTION CAUTION References: Message-ID: <3AE2BA88.AE323A0A@gate.net> Someone just posted ?HAHAHA? about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. I believe it may be a virus. I have deleted iot already. Use extreme CAUTION. Mike Tyner It sure is. I, too, dumped it unread. Be sure you also empty your trash. Anne Kilmer ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From maarten at dex.pathlink.com Sun Apr 22 10:38:45 2001 From: maarten at dex.pathlink.com (maarten at dex.pathlink.com) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:38:45 +0200 Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! References: <200104220237.WAA29780@gr.its.yale.edu> Message-ID: hahaha at sexyfun.net (Hahaha) wrote: >Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and >polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a >*huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven >Dwarfs enter... abuse sent. maarten ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Sun Apr 22 10:14:35 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 07:14:35 -0700 Subject: common names References: Message-ID: <3AE2E74B.76FB916F@extremezone.com> The name Danaus will always be Danaus and plexippus will always be plexippus. There is no instability here. It is how they are put together that causes instability. So, when someone criticizes 'scientific' names for being unstable, they are confusing it with the Linnaean system. In fact, this instability is one criticism of the Linnaean system and why some are pushing for the PhyloCode system to replace it. Because the naming system does not depend on a 'type' specimen, which under the linnaean system causes instability when it is moved from one taxon to another by a systematist or taxonomist, it is more stable. Under PhyloCode, 'scientific' names will still be used, but will be put together under different rules. It will be more stable than the current system of scientific names and more stable than common names. Five different common names for Danaus plexippus, and one butterfly called a Monarch that is in a different family? Stan Kenelm Philip wrote: > > > I remember reading somewhere that our dear old Monarch - Danaus plexippus > > ...has had about 5 different scientific names but only one common name. > > Would that matters were as straightforward as that! According to Jackie > Miller's 'The Common Names of North American Butterflies', the Monarch > has been called by the following common names: > > Monarch > Milkweed Butterfly > Storm Fritillary > Wanderer > Archippus > > Then, to make matters more amusing, I have to add the odd fact that in > Alaska and the Yukon, most non-lepidopterists call the Canadian Tiger > Swallowtail the Monarch. There's even a 'Monarch Road' in Fairbanks, > named after all the swallowtails seen at damp earth on the road. > > Ken Philip > fnkwp at uaf.edu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Sun Apr 22 12:14:36 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 12:14:36 -0400 Subject: common names In-Reply-To: "Stanley A. Gorodenski" "Re: common names" (Apr 22, 7:14am) References: <3AE2E74B.76FB916F@extremezone.com> Message-ID: <1010422121440.ZM3526@Gochfeld> Stan's point is a clear exposition of the problem. Scientific names serve two masters which accounts for the imperfections. When I did the comparison of names from the 1890's to 1990's for scientific names, I found that although the "name" (a combination of generic and species) had usually changed, in fact, the species name was often unchanged. Thus as species get assigned to different taxa (as they often do), the combinations change. In some areas of systematics, they report "comb nov." to indicate that it is not a new species, merely a new combination. But, whatever the explanation, whether the names are really unstable or as Stan suggests, merely appear to be unstable they have communication shortcomings just like as common names. Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 14:15:17 2001 From: neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 19:15:17 +0100 Subject: An explanation - Viruses in messages Message-ID: <3AE31FB4.56923A09@nwjones.demon.co.uk> The Snow White messages that have been sent around are a manifestation of the Hybris Virus. Technically it isn't a Virus but a combination of a Worm and a Trojan Horse. A worm being a program that replicates itself working its way between computers. In this case the program uses Microsoft Outlook Express to replicate. It makes the email progam send copies of the virus to everyone in the Address Book. Presumably someone has the Leps-l address in their address book. It isn't a malicious act as has been suggested. The Trojan Horse bit is the attachment which is made to look like some sexy porn picures or whatever which the unforunate victim clicks sending a whole load of new messages all carrying the virus. The email address on the messages is a total fake and when it was created nobody owned the sexyfun.net address. Since then an IT specialist has registered the name and uses it to provide information about the virus. to find our more visit http://www.sexyfun.net/ It is NOT a porn site. Don't send them complaints about the virus. They didn't make it. They set up the site to help people. The virus actually originated in Brazil. The worst thing about this is Outlook Express was deliberately written to include the ability to manipulate emails in this way. Microsoft has a lot to answer for here. Now some smart idiot :-) has even written virus writing software that lets any teenager create their own with very little technical knowledge. If you don't want to have to deal with these things DON'T USE Outlook Express. I have been known to use it but I rig it so it can't receive emails and therefore cannot become infected. You don't even have to use Windows at all for your email This is sent using the Linux operating system which cost me nothing at all and comes with the most amazing bundled software (at least if you are a computer enthusiast.) -- Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sun Apr 22 14:19:05 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 14:19:05 -0400 Subject: Virus back door Message-ID: <000a01c0cb58$b73c0b20$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> I know next to nothing about computers - somewhere just below amateur. My son-in-law is at the opposite end of the spectrum. I recently asked him if there was any way to "open" an email without really opening it - a kind of back door to check what it is. (Now, most of you may already know the following, but for the rest of us subamateur computer users...) When an email comes in that you are not sure about here is what you can do (at least with Outlook Express). Right click on the message which will bring up an options window. At the bottom is a bar for "properties". Left click on this and two more info panels will come up -- General & Details. Left click on Details. At the bottom of that panel is another bar that says "Message Source". If you left click this it will allow you to view the email in a txt file without actually opening it. In the details and message source windows you want to look for codes like exe. and such codes that show that the message contains a program. Now, I am still not brave enough to try this. I just delete. But to check this out just go through the steps on an email you know is safe. Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From raymond.schmorak at wanadoo.fr Sun Apr 22 13:37:12 2001 From: raymond.schmorak at wanadoo.fr (Raymond SCHMORAK) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 19:37:12 +0200 Subject: Un logiciel pour identifier les 2000 plus beaux rhopaloc Message-ID: Cher coll?gue entomologiste, Vous trouverez sur Internet mon site pr?sentant une petite partie des rhopaloc?res du monde entier. Adresse du site: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/papillons.schmorak/ ____________________________________________________________________________ J'ai aussi d?velopp?, sur CD Rom, un logiciel d'identification par photos de pr?s de 2000 esp?ces principales du globe Ce logiciel permet la d?termination, au niveau de l'imago, de 2000 esp?ces de rhopaloc?res provenant de toutes les parties du globe. Les photos sont en taille r?elle. Elles repr?sentent les papillons ?tal?s en collection pour une parfaite identification de chaque esp?ce. Les 15 principales familles sont trait?es: Acraeidae, Amathusiidae, Brassolidae, Danaidae, Heliconiidae, Hesperiidae, Ithomiidae, Libytheidae, Lycaenidae, Morphidae, Nemeobiidae, Nymphalidae, Papilionidae, Pieridae, Satyridae. Classement par Famille/Genre/esp?ce. La consultation des photos sur le CD ROM se fait de mani?re totalement intuitive et permet de voir les papillons un par un - ou par planche de 24 photos r?duites avec clic sur chacune pour voir la photo en taille r?elle - ou encore par listes de genres et esp?ces avec un puissant moteur de recherche qui affichera la photo de l'esp?ce d?sir?e. On dispose de fonctions de d?filement avant/arri?re, ? la souris ou au clavier, qui permettent de naviguer au pas ? pas, rapidement, ou en diaporama. Pour chaque papillon seront indiqu?s les renseignements suivants: famille, genre, esp?ce, sous-esp?ce, forme, aberration, auteur, sexe, pays, envergure, face recto ou verso. 15 familles sont trait?es: C'est la voie royale pour identifier votre collection ou d?couvrir les plus beaux papillons du monde! Version Mac ou PC, ? pr?ciser ? la commande. Commandes en direct chez l'auteur. Prix pour la France: 195 francs fran?ais, frais de port compris. R?glement par ch?que ? la commande ? l?ordre de Mr Raymond Schmorak. Prix pour l??tranger: 230 francs fran?ais, frais de port compris. R?glement par ch?que ? la commande ? l?ordre de Mr Raymond Schmorak ou par virement bancaire au N? de compte que je vous indiquerai si vous souhaitez r?gler par ce moyen. Adresse: Raymond Schmorak, 12 rue du Lampy, 31850 Montrab?, France T?l?phone: 05 61 84 30 00 Je r?pondrai avec grand plaisir ? toutes vos questions. Bien amicalement, Raymond Schmorak Mon e-mail: raymond.schmorak at wanadoo.fr P.S. Un logiciel sp?cialis? sur les Ornithopt?res sera disponible en Mai. Il pr?sentera ce groupe de mani?re exhaustive (439 photos, m?les, femelles, recto/verso). Un must pour les amateurs de ces joyaux... ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Sun Apr 22 14:32:09 2001 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:32:09 -0500 Subject: The Definitive Answer... Message-ID: <20010422.133210.-251221.1.mbpi@juno.com> Call it "a sign" or serendipity... Yesterday, as I was driving into downtown Evanston, Illinois to return some library books, I was passed by a Michoachan Mexican peddling "Ices," and on the side of his bicycle freezer was the word "Monarca" with a huge painting of Danaus plexippus on its side (!) So..."Monarca" it is...or will be, since the Hispanic population is the fastest growing here in the United States. M.B. Prondzinski Evanston, IL USA ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Sun Apr 22 15:30:23 2001 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 12:30:23 -0700 Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! Message-ID: Maarten wrote: >hahaha at sexyfun.net (Hahaha) wrote: > >>Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and >>polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a >>*huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the >>Seven >>Dwarfs enter... > >abuse sent. > >maarten You're wasting your time, Maarten. That's the Hybris Worm, and there is no such address as "hahaha at sexyfun.net" - ALL copies of the Worm use that false header. Hybris was created by a hacker called "Vecna" who lives in Brazil, and if you want a piece of his hide, you're only one of about 30 million people already in line. He's untouchable, unfortunately. Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sun Apr 22 15:54:23 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:54:23 -0400 Subject: common names References: <3AE2E74B.76FB916F@extremezone.com> <1010422121440.ZM3526@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <001901c0cb66$07bcf2a0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> I hope I communicate this properly. A complaint I have long had is that our defining of organisms (by what ever mode) is wrong before we ever start because we are wanting to "fix" a name (identity) to a living thing that will eventually evolve to have nothing to do with what it was "fixed" as. Regardless of the type of names used - it is absolutely impossible to have stability (stagnation) with evolving things - including language itself. --Linguistic purists hate slang - verbal subspecies birthed in subculture. In the sixties to say "the bomb" meant only one thing - nuclear bomb. "The bomb" today means a lot of fun, a great looking boy or girl, hit song etc. etc. -- If we all had been living for the last 200 million years, at what point would we have changed the common name of the organism from dinosaur to bird. To me the "stability" factor has no bearing on the use of common or scientific names - this is not a stability issue to me. In fact, the names _need_ to change. If there were virtually no change in the great mass of common or scientific names over, say, the next 50 years, that would tell me no new knowledge was being discovered! Spring Azure sufficed when we thought there was only one in N.A. A new common name is Helicta Satyr. No one wants to use this. By not doing so a whole newly recognized eastern N.A species, and its three subspecies, are being ignored. To continue to use only Georgia Satyr and ignore ("for stability") Helicta Satyr, Miami Helicta, Northern (or New Jersey) Helicta is absurd. Why don't we just still use only Spring Azure and forget about Holly Azure, Appalachian Azure, and the not even yet described Cherry Gall Azure. We have an as yet undescribed species whose common name is already in use - but a species with three subspecies that is ignored. My beef with the common names movement is that it genders less knowledge not more. (Common names may indeed gender more general interest but not knowledge - especially since the Gurus of this are against subspecies being given common names.). This is strictly a knowledge issue with me. Common names have a definite place - with beginners and everyday entomological communication. But they are an unarguably a dumbed down, generic version of the technical delineations provided by systematics - where names MUST change as knowledge changes. helicta The perceived "shortcomings" in systematic taxonomy are actually reflective of the strength of systematics. This is because they are not shortcomings at all - when recognized that taxonomic names are only temporary labels on evolving organisms. My great complaint with many taxonomists is the way this discipline is treated as a fixed or hard science rather than the living subjective science that it really is. This is about _evolution_ CHANGE. Life is not unstable, it just looks that why. The systematic study of evolving life is not unstable it just looks that way. How wonderful and exciting it is. How boring a stagnate world would be. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gochfeld" To: ; Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 12:14 PM Subject: Re: common names > Stan's point is a clear exposition of the problem. Scientific names > serve two masters which accounts for the imperfections. When I did the > comparison of names from the 1890's to 1990's for scientific names, I > found that although the "name" (a combination of generic and species) > had usually changed, in fact, the species name was often unchanged. Thus > as species get assigned to different taxa (as they often do), the > combinations change. In some areas of systematics, they report "comb > nov." to indicate that it is not a new species, merely a new > combination. > > But, whatever the explanation, whether the names are really unstable or > as Stan suggests, merely appear to be unstable they have communication > shortcomings just like as common names. > > Mike Gochfeld > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rjparcelles at yahoo.com Sun Apr 22 16:15:40 2001 From: rjparcelles at yahoo.com (Bob Parcelles,Jr.) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EARTH DAY Message-ID: <20010422201540.18757.qmail@web5203.mail.yahoo.com> GREETINGS: Wayne Hsu sent this message to Bird Chat. I can think of no finer tribute to the reasons why 31 years ago a handful of us started something that has tried to reshape the world. I know that it has redirected and reshaped my life. It saddens me however to see that we are still fighting the good fight for all of the same issues 31 years later! Moreover we are on the brink of having major setbacks if not a complete defeat in the next 2-3 years. We need to use a responsible dialogue based on science in order to halt this irresponsible trend. Yours for the environment, Bob Parcelles, Jr. Pinellas Park, FL ****************************************************** PLEASE EXCUSE ANY CROSS-POSTING This article was written for last year's earth day. Donella Meadows has since passed away but the message in this article still resonates. read in commemoration of earth day! ####################################################### EARTH DAY PLUS THIRTY, AS SEEN BY THE EARTH By Donella Meadows, adjunct professor at Dartmouth College. If, in the thirty Earth Day celebrations we have held since 1970, the human population and economy have become any more respectful of the Earth, the Earth hasn't noticed. The planet is not impressed by fancy speeches. Leonardo DiCaprio interviewing Bill Clinton about global warming is not an Earth-shaking event. The Earth has no way of registering good intentions or future inventions or high hopes. It doesn't even pay attention to dollars, which are, from a planet's point of view, just a charming human invention. Planets measure only physical things-energy and materials and their flows into and out of the changing populations of living creatures. What the Earth sees is that on the first Earth Day in 1970 there were 3.7 billion of those hyperactive critters called humans, and now there are over 6 billion. Back in 1970 those humans drew from the Earth's crust 46 million barrels of oil every day-now they draw 78 million. Natural gas extraction has nearly tripled in thirty years, from 34 trillion cubic feet per year to 95 trillion. We mined 2.2 billion metric tons in 1970; this year we'll mine about 3.8 billion. The planet feels this fossil fuel use in many ways, as the fuels are extracted (and spilled) and shipped (and spilled) and refined (generating toxics) and burned into numerous pollutants, including carbon dioxide, which traps outgoing energy and warms things up. Despite global conferences and brave promises, what the Earth notices is that human carbon emissions have increased from 3.9 million metric tons in 1970 to an estimated 6.4 million this year. You would think that an unimaginably huge thing like a planet would not notice the one degree (Fahrenheit) warming it has experienced since 1970. But on the scale of a whole planet, one degree is a big deal, especially since it is not spread evenly. The poles have warmed more than the equator, the winters more than the summers, the nights more than the days. That means that temperature DIFFERENCES from one place to another have been changing much more than the average temperature has changed. Temperature differences are what make winds blow, rains rain, ocean currents flow. All creatures, including humans, are exquisitely attuned to the weather. All creatures, including us, are noticing weather weirdness and trying to adjust, by moving, by fruiting earlier or migrating later, by building up whatever protections are possible against flood and drought. The Earth is reacting to weather changes too, shrinking glaciers, splitting off nation-sized chunks of Antarctic ice sheet, enhancing the cycles we call El Nino and La Nina. "Earth Day, Shmearth Day," the planet must be thinking as its fever mounts. "Are you folks ever going to take me seriously?" Since the first Earth Day our global vehicle population has swelled from 246 to 730 million. Air traffic has gone up by a factor of six. The rate at which we grind up trees to make paper has doubled (to 200 million metric tons per year). We coax from the soil, with the help of strange chemicals, 2.25 times as much wheat, 2.5 times as much corn, 2.2 times as much rice, almost twice as much sugar, almost four times as many soybeans as we did thirty years ago. We pull from the oceans almost twice as much fish. With the fish we can see clearly how the planet behaves, when we push it too far. It does not feel sorry for us; it just follows its own rules. Fish become harder and harder to find. If they are caught before they're old enough to reproduce, if their nursery habitat is destroyed, if we scoop up not only the cod, but the capelin upon which the cod feeds, the fish may never come back. The Earth does not care that we didn't mean it, that we promise not to do it again, that we make nice gestures every Earth Day. We have among us die-hard optimists who will berate me for not reporting the good news since the last Earth Day. There is plenty of it, but it is mostly measured in human terms, not Earth terms. Average human life expectancy has risen since 1970 from 58 to 66 years. Gross world product has more than doubled, from 16 to 39 trillion dollars. Recycling has increased, but so has trash generation, so the Earth receives more garbage than ever before. Wind and solar power generation have soared, but so have coal-fired, gas-fired and nuclear generation. In human terms there has been breathtaking progress. In 1970 there weren't any cell phones or video players. There was no Internet; there were no dot-coms. Nor was anyone infected with AIDS, of course, nor did we have to worry about genetic engineering. Global spending on advertising was only one-third of what it is now (in inflation-corrected dollars). Third-World debt was one-eighth of what it is now. Whether you call any of that progress, it is all beneath the notice of the Earth. What the Earth sees is that its species are vanishing at a rate it hasn't seen in 65 million years. That 40 percent of its agricultural soils have been degraded. That half its forests have disappeared and half its wetlands have been filled or drained, and that, despite Earth Day, all these trends are accelerating. Earth Day is beginning to remind me of Mother's Day, a commercial occasion upon which you buy flowers for the person who, every other day of the year, cleans up after you. Guilt-assuaging. Trivializing. Actually dangerous. All mothers have their breaking points. Mother Earth does not soften hers with patience or forgiveness or sentimentality. ###################################################### "Technology is of no use to us if it is used without respect for the Earth and its processes." -Aldo Leopold ####################################################### ===== Bob Parcelles, Jr Pinellas Park, FL RJP Associates rjparcelles at yahoo.com http://rainforest.care2.com/welcome?w=976131876 "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."- Confucius __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MatSmith1 at compuserve.com Sun Apr 22 16:54:45 2001 From: MatSmith1 at compuserve.com (Matthew Smith) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:54:45 -0400 Subject: common names Message-ID: <200104221654_MC2-CD60-E96C@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:cguppy at quesnelbc.com > I also have a childhood memory of being told that the various British naval fleets had admirals with black uniforms striped with different colors (red fleet, white fleet, blue fleet, etc). Hence red admiral, white admiral, etc. I have no idea if that is true, perhaps someone from Britain has some thoughts??? < I'm not sure about the stripes on the uniform being coloured, from what I know of the Royal Navy in the Napoleonic Wars (mostly from writers of well researched historical adventure novels), British Admirals (i.e. the ones in ships, not the butterflies) flew different coloured pennants depending on rank and possibly seniority. You therefore had such things as 'Admiral so and so, Admiral of the Red' or 'Vice Admiral so & so, Admiral of the Blue'. Ships under their command flew the ensign with the commanding Admirals' 'colour' indicated. Eventualy only the titles were used, today all RN ships fly the 'White Ensign' as used by Admiral Nelson. Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MatSmith1 at compuserve.com Sun Apr 22 16:54:47 2001 From: MatSmith1 at compuserve.com (Matthew Smith) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:54:47 -0400 Subject: common names Message-ID: <200104221654_MC2-CD60-E96E@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu > > The Latin name of the genus, Limenitis, means "harbour keeper". According to Brown's 'Composition of Scientific Words', 'limen' in Latin means 'threshold'. 'limeno' in Greek is 'harbor'. Note that 'Gatekeeper' is another English common name--that could be close to 'Limenitis' if the word is actually Latin. < Over here in the UK, the common name 'White Admiral' is only applied to Limenitis. 'Gatekeeper' is used for another species, Pyronia tithonus (Satyridae) Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Sumairp at dex.pathlink.com Sun Apr 22 16:33:46 2001 From: Sumairp at dex.pathlink.com (Sumairp at dex.pathlink.com) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 20:33:46 GMT Subject: An explanation - Viruses in messages References: <3AE31FB4.56923A09@nwjones.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3ae33f66.10246362@news.eaa.com.au> On 22 Apr 2001 11:24:33 -0700, neil at NWJONES.DEMON.CO.UK (Neil Jones) wrote: >The Snow White messages that have been sent around are a manifestation >of the Hybris Virus. >Technically it isn't a Virus but a combination of a Worm and a Trojan >Horse. >A worm being a program that replicates itself working its way between >computers. >In this case the program uses Microsoft Outlook Express to replicate. It >makes the email progam >send copies of the virus to everyone in the Address Book. Presumably >someone has the Leps-l >address in their address book. It isn't a malicious act as has been >suggested. >The Trojan Horse bit is the attachment which is made to look like some >sexy porn picures or whatever >which the unforunate victim clicks sending a whole load of new messages >all carrying the virus. > >The email address on the messages is a total fake and when it was >created nobody owned the sexyfun.net address. >Since then an IT specialist has registered the name and uses it to >provide information about the virus. >to find our more visit http://www.sexyfun.net/ It is NOT a porn site. >Don't send them complaints about the virus. >They didn't make it. They set up the site to help people. The virus >actually originated in Brazil. > >The worst thing about this is Outlook Express was deliberately written >to include the ability to manipulate >emails in this way. Microsoft has a lot to answer for here. Now some >smart idiot :-) has even written virus writing software >that lets any teenager create their own with very little technical >knowledge. >If you don't want to have to deal with these things DON'T USE Outlook >Express. I have been known to use it but >I rig it so it can't receive emails and therefore cannot become >infected. >You don't even have to use Windows at all for your email This is sent >using the Linux operating system which >cost me nothing at all and comes with the most amazing bundled software >(at least if you are a computer enthusiast. Absolutely correct. I use the old Netscape 3 for my mail and have never had a problem. Netscape 4.07 for browsing & IE5 as a last resort. Cheers, Chris Hocking Micro$oft is packaging 3 OS's together... They plan on bundling Windows CE, Windows ME and Windows NT together and calling it Windows CEMENT. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jshuey at tnc.org Sun Apr 22 17:03:18 2001 From: jshuey at tnc.org (John Shuey) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:03:18 -0500 Subject: Cute common names for maggots References: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> <3AE0F6C2.FCA0BB61@theriver.com> <00d801c0ca3d$4add3240$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <1010421233123.ZM9214@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <3AE34716.685E1246@tnc.org> In Belize bot flies are beef worms - pronounced so that it sounds like beeforms. One screwed up the entire left side of my lymphatic system a couple of years ago (it choose the base of my neck for home). I limped for about 2 months - so I don't think that there is really to many attributes I'd call cute. JOhn Michael Gochfeld wrote: > I recently returned from Brazil harboring three Bot Fly larvae (maggots) > a-growing in my hand. > > People found these creatures fascinating (and some called them gross, as > well). They were particularly interesting after about four weeks, when > you could see their breathing tubes through the holes that they kept > open (like seals in ice). Little pink bubbles rose and fell several > times a minute. > > But people really found it interesting to look at the creature (both in > vivo and in plastico after I had extracted them. They could relate to > the name BOT FLY (and of course, I'm not sure exactly what species they > really are, so the generic appellation, BOT FLY, suffices nicely. > > M. Gochfeld > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > - ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Leptraps at aol.com Sun Apr 22 21:25:26 2001 From: Leptraps at aol.com (Leptraps at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:25:26 EDT Subject: common names, effect Message-ID: When I posted the destruction of one of my bait traps during a field trip following a butterfly watchers meeting, I received several e-mails with attachments that contained a virus. I just delete them and report the sender to AOL. I have no idea what happened to my complaints. I was told by AOL that they receive thousands of virus complaints daily! I will surely get a few for this post! Cheers, Leroy C. Koehn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010422/33101f22/attachment.html From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Sun Apr 22 22:30:23 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:30:23 -0400 Subject: Bot Flies In-Reply-To: John Shuey "Re: Cute common names for maggots" (Apr 22, 4:03pm) References: <20010420.211410.-219975.7.mbpi@juno.com> <3AE0F6C2.FCA0BB61@theriver.com> <00d801c0ca3d$4add3240$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> <1010421233123.ZM9214@Gochfeld> <3AE34716.685E1246@tnc.org> Message-ID: <1010422223026.ZM15630@Gochfeld> I have made 27 trips to the Neotropics totalling just over three years, and this is the first time I have encountered Bot Flies, although some people are unfortunate enough to get them on their first trip. Moreover, it is not uncommon for them to be multiple---particularly in threes (like me). It sounds like Belize is a hot spot for bots, since several people I know have gotten them there. However, I know of one person who got three bot flies on a trip to northern Argentina. As John says they're not really "cute". But it sounds like he had a worse seige than many victims. I wonder how many species are involved. M. Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From troy at troyb.com Sun Apr 22 23:12:14 2001 From: troy at troyb.com (Troy Bartlett) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 23:12:14 -0400 Subject: Emerald Moth Photo? Message-ID: <9c06in$nrc$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> I took the following photo in Gainesville, GA just yesterday (Saturday, April 22nd). Looking through Covell's Eastern Moths, it doesn't appear to match anything there, but it does seem very similar to some of the Emeralds (Nemoria). Can anyone provide an id for this one? http://troyb.com/photo/gallery/00001187.htm -- Troy Bartlett mailto:troy at troyb.com http://www.troyb.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon Apr 23 01:06:37 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 00:06:37 -0500 Subject: types and names In-Reply-To: <001901c0cb66$07bcf2a0$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> References: <3AE2E74B.76FB916F@extremezone.com> <1010422121440.ZM3526@Gochfeld> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010422234729.00b28b50@pop3.norton.antivirus> Ron, The name is fixed to a type specimen. This is the "golden spike" for future reference. Anything considered to be conspecific with that type specimen must bear its name. The parts of the fossil record that I am familiar with seem to conform to the principle of punctuated equilibria. A certain configuration of habitat suits a species which prospers in it. This is the niche. Habitats are poly/multi-dimensional. All the many dimensions of a niche will not change in the same direction in time - it is most unlikely, there are too many dimensions. So the species does not change much in time - it becomes commoner, then it becomes rarer. The lineage to which a species belongs, survives by populating a new niche as a fortuitous new combination of characters that are suited to populate a different niche. A robust lineage has enough genetic variation to be able to support this sweepstakes existence. A weak lineage fails and goes extinct. We see this today with introductions of "weed" between continents - these are robust. We see this today with rare, endangered and extinct species - these are from weak lineages. Subspecies are the tiles of fine adjustment of a species mosaic to the habitat tiles of a niche mosaic. It is from some of the minor tiles that the opportunist stock will come that is capable of populating a new open niche. That is why we are often obliged to raise subspecies to full species when we get around to gathering more data about them and testing their conspecificity. But you knew all this, I am sure. ...............Chris Durden At 03:54 PM 4/22/2001 -0400, you wrote: >I hope I communicate this properly. A complaint I have long had is that our >defining of organisms (by what ever mode) is wrong before we ever start >because we are wanting to "fix" a name (identity) to a living thing that >will eventually evolve to have nothing to do with what it was "fixed" as. >Regardless of the type of names used - it is absolutely impossible to have >stability (stagnation) with evolving things - including language itself. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From dchaffee1 at mindspring.com Mon Apr 23 02:09:03 2001 From: dchaffee1 at mindspring.com (Dan Chaffee) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 06:09:03 GMT Subject: Graphium Marcellus Message-ID: <3ae3c4b8.1243565@nntp.mindspring.com> They're back on the wing here in Kansas City, Mo. Great to see the spring specimens with their double crimson spots. I watched one yesterday lesurely feeding on a field of dandylions in a most unwary fashion. I don't think I've ever seen one frequent anything but flowering weeds .4 meteres in height or less. D Chaffee ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From tlmorse at onemain.com Mon Apr 23 02:22:35 2001 From: tlmorse at onemain.com (Terry Morse) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 23:22:35 -0700 Subject: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question Message-ID: <3AE3CA2A.8DE2DFA9@onemain.com> I am a beginner at pinning and spreading butterflies. I am trying to pin/spread a moderately small lep, a Western Pine Elfin (Callophrys eryphon). The insect died with its wings in full upright position to the extent that I can't see the thorax well enough to properly insert the pin. I've had it in a relaxing chamber for 24 hours ( is that sufficient? I had left the specimen in the killing jar for the preceding 24 hours), but am unable to get the wings to stay spread enough on their own for me to place the pin. It's a bit of a catch-22: To spread the specimen, I need to pin it; but to pin it, I need to spread the specimen. Can anyone suggest how I can get the wings spread enough (I only have two hands) that I can see to place the pin? I've tried placing the specimen on a slightly rough surface and using butterfly forceps to spread the wings with one hand while I pin it with the other hand, but the specimen keeps sliding forward. I've tried putting a pin in front of the specimen as a stop, but it just slides past the stop. My other elfin was kind enough to die with its wings down, so it was easy to pin that one. Thanks, Terry ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Mon Apr 23 03:30:10 2001 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 23:30:10 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question Message-ID: You don't have to spread the wings apart to pin the specimen through the thorax. Hold the butterfly between thumb & forefinger of your left hand, slip the pin (in your right hand) between the wings while looking at the front of the specimen, and you should be able to place the pin properly without having to see the top of the thorax from above. You can really do it almost by feel. On the other hand, if the specimen is fully relaxed, you should be able to open the wings and force them down far enough that they don't totally close when you release them. With a properly-designed relaxer, 24 hours is more than enough for _Callophrys_. But people who use jars, and layer specimens in the jar, may need much more time. My relaxer has over 200 square inches of water surface, and the specimens are never layered--and butterflies up to the size of _Colias_ and such relax fully in 24 hours. Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From maarten at dex.pathlink.com Mon Apr 23 04:16:21 2001 From: maarten at dex.pathlink.com (maarten at dex.pathlink.com) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:16:21 +0200 Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! References: Message-ID: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) wrote: >Maarten wrote: > >>hahaha at sexyfun.net (Hahaha) wrote: >> >>>Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and >>>polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a >>>*huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the >>>Seven >>>Dwarfs enter... >> >>abuse sent. >> >>maarten > >You're wasting your time, Maarten. Maybe, maybe not. >That's the Hybris Worm, and there is no >such address as "hahaha at sexyfun.net" - ALL copies of the Worm use that >false header. Ok, I have to explain here that I am a computer networking professional with amateur interest in butterflies :-) In his message are some headers that point to some other systems, possibly the systems this person uses to put this binary in this newgroup (e.g. a dialup system at the provider kiva.net). In my experience it doesn't hurt to send them an abuse mail. But anyway, thanks for the info. maarten ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From jkahanpa at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid Mon Apr 23 05:21:48 2001 From: jkahanpa at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid (Jere Kahanpaa) Date: 23 Apr 2001 09:21:48 GMT Subject: common names References: <20010420.191148.-219975.1.mbpi@juno.com> Message-ID: <9c0s7c$blj$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> Hi. mbpi at juno.com wrote: : At the risk of sounding "amateurish," I find the use of common names a : helpful frame-of-reference. : For example: when someone on this listserv starts expounding on some : foreign species or subspecies, and doesn't even give "a clue" to the : family of that species...such as nymphalid or lycenid, much less "brush : foot" or "gossamer wings," it's very hard for someone who isn't familiar : with the "taxa of the world" to get a picture of what the elitist is : referring to (!) To my way of thinking, it is a passive-aggressive ploy : to "exclude" anyone who hasn't been studying butterflies for the past 25 : years...let them "figure it out" (!) It seems to me you don't really : "want" to educate the ignorant masses, and would much prefer to keep your : "coveted and covert knowledge" just that. For a non-native english speaker -- my first language is finnish -- this argument work exactly in the opposite direction: I have no idea of what species groups are included in blues, pugs or fritillaries, but scientific names such as Boloria, Eumedonia or Eupithecia give some idea of what taxons we are talking about. Using common names for foreign (from your point of view!) taxons makes even less sense as then the people how live in the country where the taxon is resident might not recognize it at all and cannot submit valuable advice. : Believe me, if you were actually willing to impart even a tad bit more : "information" than the majority of you do, the subjugated amateurs on : this listserv would "fly" They might even feel free to "express" : themselves (!) : Then...watch out!!!! Maybe that's what you're afraid of ?! Hmm. If I'm afraid of something it is the suprisingly low number of non-american comment on sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera. Using common names certainly doesn't help at all as they are strongly language- and region-dependent. If you want to use common names I suggest using Finnish common names: Vanessa cardui: Ohdakeperhonen Inachis io: Neitoperhonen Nymphalis antiopa: Suruvaippa etc. A larger list is available at http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/intro.html#tree ;-) On the finnish lep newsgroup, sfnet.harrastus.perhoset ('finnish-net.hobby.leps'), we use mainly scientific names (often abbreviated) but try to also supply either a common name or a reference to the larger group like this: Timandra comai (Geometridae). Jere Kahanp?? -- Lord, make my words as sweet as honey, for one day I may have to eat them Daryl Benson ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Mon Apr 23 12:02:07 2001 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:02:07 -0700 Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! Message-ID: Maarten wrote: >Ok, I have to explain here that I am a computer networking >professional with amateur interest in butterflies :-) >In his message are some headers that point to some other >systems, possibly the systems this person uses to put this >binary in this newgroup (e.g. a dialup system at the provider >kiva.net). In my experience it doesn't hurt to send them an >abuse mail. In most cases I'd agree, but when a person's e-mail account has been hijacked by a worm/virus, and sending out copies of itself without that person's knowledge, then sending an *abuse* complaint to their provider is the wrong approach; it implies *intentional* abuse. Better to send a "heads up" to the ISP and say "You've got an infected user and might want to trace them and help them remove the virus". If that's what you did, fine. Me, I avoid viruses by using a Mac that does not use Outlook. For people who feel they MUST use Outlook, some tweaking of the default settings is helpful, as has been pointed out, and another strategy is to simply NOT use the address book (if there are no addresses in it, no virus can use your e-mail to proliferate itself). Peace, Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Mon Apr 23 13:12:10 2001 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:12:10 -0700 Subject: common names Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAEF1@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Hello Jere. Thank you very much for sharing your views on this topic. Sharing of views is one of the purposes of this communication technology. I also express my views (purely to state my opoinion) on this discussion group from time to time. Other times I am simply seeking information and I assume (rightly or wrongly) that people who do not recognize a particular name at all will likely not have the information at their fingertips. And occasionally I post some things of an informational nature that I think might be of interest to some participants. Such postings could be viewed as educational. Other times I post provocative notes to see what other opinions or information can be gotten from other people. One perhaps provocative opinion that I hold is that there is no such thing as an amateur or a professional. There are only two kinds of people on our planet. Those who have an interest in butterflies and those who do not. For those who do have an interest in butterflies it is clear that the details of the interest and the level of knowledge is unique to each person. But everyone has something to contribute and nobody should be shy about public discussion and debate. Viva la difference and too bad for those among us who get annoyed by opinions and views that differ from their own :-) they will likely be grumpy a lot :-) -----Original Message----- From: Jere Kahanpaa [mailto:jkahanpa at pcu.helsinki.fi.invalid] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 2:22 AM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Subject: Re: common names Hi. mbpi at juno.com wrote: : At the risk of sounding "amateurish," I find the use of common names a : helpful frame-of-reference. : For example: when someone on this listserv starts expounding on some : foreign species or subspecies, and doesn't even give "a clue" to the : family of that species...such as nymphalid or lycenid, much less "brush : foot" or "gossamer wings," it's very hard for someone who isn't familiar : with the "taxa of the world" to get a picture of what the elitist is : referring to (!) To my way of thinking, it is a passive-aggressive ploy : to "exclude" anyone who hasn't been studying butterflies for the past 25 : years...let them "figure it out" (!) It seems to me you don't really : "want" to educate the ignorant masses, and would much prefer to keep your : "coveted and covert knowledge" just that. For a non-native english speaker -- my first language is finnish -- this argument work exactly in the opposite direction: I have no idea of what species groups are included in blues, pugs or fritillaries, but scientific names such as Boloria, Eumedonia or Eupithecia give some idea of what taxons we are talking about. Using common names for foreign (from your point of view!) taxons makes even less sense as then the people how live in the country where the taxon is resident might not recognize it at all and cannot submit valuable advice. : Believe me, if you were actually willing to impart even a tad bit more : "information" than the majority of you do, the subjugated amateurs on : this listserv would "fly" They might even feel free to "express" : themselves (!) : Then...watch out!!!! Maybe that's what you're afraid of ?! Hmm. If I'm afraid of something it is the suprisingly low number of non-american comment on sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera. Using common names certainly doesn't help at all as they are strongly language- and region-dependent. If you want to use common names I suggest using Finnish common names: Vanessa cardui: Ohdakeperhonen Inachis io: Neitoperhonen Nymphalis antiopa: Suruvaippa etc. A larger list is available at http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/intro.html#tree ;-) On the finnish lep newsgroup, sfnet.harrastus.perhoset ('finnish-net.hobby.leps'), we use mainly scientific names (often abbreviated) but try to also supply either a common name or a reference to the larger group like this: Timandra comai (Geometridae). Jere Kahanp?? -- Lord, make my words as sweet as honey, for one day I may have to eat them Daryl Benson ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Mon Apr 23 13:46:38 2001 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:46:38 -0700 Subject: Taxonomic Tidbit Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAEF4@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> The topic of "conservative taxonomy" (in relation to butterflies) came up in a recent discussion with a colleague. So I got to wondering what this really means and also the probably various meanings it has to different people. One notion of conservative taxonomy is to lump everything that looks even remotely similar unless there is a genitalic difference and then split the lumps later after exhaustive research. The flip side of this conservative taxonomy coin would be to be conservative by accepting the taxonomic placement of each taxon as described by the original author and then lump the splits after exhaustive research. Both views seem to be "conservative". What other ways can we look at this issue of conservative taxonomy ?? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From JADAMS at em.daltonstate.edu Mon Apr 23 13:57:19 2001 From: JADAMS at em.daltonstate.edu (DR. JAMES ADAMS) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:57:19 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Names . . . Message-ID: <200104231753.NAA10635@dr-who.daltonstate.edu> Dear listers, I saved this message the last time this discussion came up, assuming it would be useful again. I was right. I will also add that, although Ron has included some stuff I strongly agree with, I disagree that common names are in any way associated with dumbing down. You can just as easily apply a new common name to a new taxon as you can a new scientific name to a new taxon. I guarantee you that Jeffrey Glassburg (excuse me if I spelled it incorrectly) is out there ready to put a common name on any newly recognized species. Here's the old version of the message . . . it includes some references to other conversations at the time, but the overall meaning and sentiment are clear. ________________ Well, I was going to stay out of this discussion this round, as I have had a lot to say in past rounds of this discussion, but I couldn't help myself. Just a few points: 1. It bothers me to hear people talk about "resistance to" or "fear of" learning "scientific" names. I *do* think part of the problem is some of us scientists; we need to be willing and open to the general public, and willing to use common names when communicating with people who don't know the scientific names. To call them "Latin" names, however, is a joke. "Latinized" maybe. Alright, alright, some of the names are well-thought-through latin representations of something that has to do with the actual creature being described, but some have their roots in other languages (like Greek, etc.), and just as many are simply creative mind-wisps (the hymenopteran genera "Aha" and "Ohno" come to mind -- look at Doug Yanega's website and you'll see a huge sampling of scientific names that are far from being either Latin or scientific). However, I do think that the general public can learn these names easily if we just look at them as another set of names. The flower people learn them simply because those are the names that the flowers have. Well, gee whiz, guess what? The same is true for *all* scientific names of *all* organisms. They have the name -- it just needs to be grasped with enthusiasm. Unfortunately, maybe Anne is right and we need to teach people this early. If scientific names are presented in an appropriate environment from an enthusiastic presenter, people would be much less afraid of the names and much more willing to learn. 2. About pronunciation. Ken was right -- don't worry about it!! Give it your best shot, and even if you are not technically correct, if you are able to pronounce the individual letters you should be able to produce a pronunciation that is recognizable to virtually everyone. As for those scientists who demand precise enunciation, I say "pblpblpblfft"! I like knowing what the exact pronunciation is (although this also may differ in different parts of the world, as was indicated before), but am thrilled when anyone is interested in learning these names. 3. As for stability. I think the point has clearly been made about communication across the face of the globe. Common names simply are not useful for this. I truly *do* believe that the English speaking world is very ethnocentric in terms of demanding common name usage. This is nothing short of inconsiderate and rude to the rest of the world (I have news for you -- English speakers are still the minority in the world!). Although it may be possible to make common names reasonably stable in one language in one location, clearly it is impossible to do this worldwide. On the other hand, this is exactly the point of scientific names. Okay, so there is also instability in the scientific names, but each day progress is made toward more stability. I do have news for everyone -- *no* set of names, common or scientific, is ever going to be completely stable. Don't forget, humans came up with the names in the first place, and as long as humans are involved in the process (which is forever) there will be differences in opinion. [Not only that, but as Ron points out in this round, the taxa themselves are, of course, continuing to change.] All that aside, scientific names do allow you to reach a much wider audience, and also indicate relatedness between organisms as has been discussed previously. Don't get me wrong, I do use common names for butterflies and for a lot of moths, and some of these indicate relatedness appropriately as well. It is important to know these as well, especially if you want to teach someone the scientific names that go with species for which they already know the common names. Understand, though, that common names can also be misleading in terms of relationships. The Great-Spangled Fritillary, the Variegated Fritillary, all the Lesser Fritillaries, although all nymphalids, are reasonably closely related but certainly not congeneric. Throw in the Gulf Fritillary (at least in a different subfamily) and the Duke of Burgundy Fritillary (the only metalmark in Europe) and you can see what I mean. What to make of all of this? Don't be frightened of learning *either* set of names. Learning scientific names can be fun, but doesn't automatically put you above your common-name using public, and knowing common names doesn't make you any less scientific. That's it (hopefully) . . . James Dr. James K. Adams Dept. of Natural Science and Math Dalton State College 213 N. College Drive Dalton, GA 30720 Phone: (706)272-4427; fax: (706)272-2533 U of Michigan's President James Angell's Secret of Success: "Grow antennae, not horns" ------- End of forwarded message ------- Dr. James K. Adams Dept. of Natural Science and Math Dalton State College 213 N. College Drive Dalton, GA 30720 Phone: (706)272-4427; fax: (706)272-2533 http://www.daltonstate.edu/galeps/ (Georgia Lepidoptera) U of Michigan's President James Angell's Secret of Success: "Grow antennae, not horns" ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Guy_VdP at t-online.de Mon Apr 23 16:08:38 2001 From: Guy_VdP at t-online.de (Guy Van de Poel & A. Kalus) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:08:38 +0200 Subject: (Fwd) Names . . . Message-ID: <001201c0cc31$2fc0c440$5b1c58d9@server> I liked this post the last time. I still like it. Could you send it a little bit earlier next time ? Guy. -----Original Message----- From: DR. JAMES ADAMS To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Date: maandag 23 april 2001 20:00 Subject: (Fwd) Names . . . Dear listers, I saved this message the last time this discussion came up, assuming it would be useful again. I was right. I will also add that, although Ron has included some stuff I strongly agree with, I disagree that common names are in any way associated with dumbing down. You can just as easily apply a new common name to a new taxon as you can a new scientific name to a new taxon. I guarantee you that Jeffrey Glassburg (excuse me if I spelled it incorrectly) is out there ready to put a common name on any newly recognized species. Here's the old version of the message . . . it includes some references to other conversations at the time, but the overall meaning and sentiment are clear. ________________ Well, I was going to stay out of this discussion this round, as I have had a lot to say in past rounds of this discussion, but I couldn't help myself. Just a few points: 1. It bothers me to hear people talk about "resistance to" or "fear of" learning "scientific" names. I *do* think part of the problem is some of us scientists; we need to be willing and open to the general public, and willing to use common names when communicating with people who don't know the scientific names. To call them "Latin" names, however, is a joke. "Latinized" maybe. Alright, alright, some of the names are well-thought-through latin representations of something that has to do with the actual creature being described, but some have their roots in other languages (like Greek, etc.), and just as many are simply creative mind-wisps (the hymenopteran genera "Aha" and "Ohno" come to mind -- look at Doug Yanega's website and you'll see a huge sampling of scientific names that are far from being either Latin or scientific). However, I do think that the general public can learn these names easily if we just look at them as another set of names. The flower people learn them simply because those are the names that the flowers have. Well, gee whiz, guess what? The same is true for *all* scientific names of *all* organisms. They have the name -- it just needs to be grasped with enthusiasm. Unfortunately, maybe Anne is right and we need to teach people this early. If scientific names are presented in an appropriate environment from an enthusiastic presenter, people would be much less afraid of the names and much more willing to learn. 2. About pronunciation. Ken was right -- don't worry about it!! Give it your best shot, and even if you are not technically correct, if you are able to pronounce the individual letters you should be able to produce a pronunciation that is recognizable to virtually everyone. As for those scientists who demand precise enunciation, I say "pblpblpblfft"! I like knowing what the exact pronunciation is (although this also may differ in different parts of the world, as was indicated before), but am thrilled when anyone is interested in learning these names. 3. As for stability. I think the point has clearly been made about communication across the face of the globe. Common names simply are not useful for this. I truly *do* believe that the English speaking world is very ethnocentric in terms of demanding common name usage. This is nothing short of inconsiderate and rude to the rest of the world (I have news for you -- English speakers are still the minority in the world!). Although it may be possible to make common names reasonably stable in one language in one location, clearly it is impossible to do this worldwide. On the other hand, this is exactly the point of scientific names. Okay, so there is also instability in the scientific names, but each day progress is made toward more stability. I do have news for everyone -- *no* set of names, common or scientific, is ever going to be completely stable. Don't forget, humans came up with the names in the first place, and as long as humans are involved in the process (which is forever) there will be differences in opinion. [Not only that, but as Ron points out in this round, the taxa themselves are, of course, continuing to change.] All that aside, scientific names do allow you to reach a much wider audience, and also indicate relatedness between organisms as has been discussed previously. Don't get me wrong, I do use common names for butterflies and for a lot of moths, and some of these indicate relatedness appropriately as well. It is important to know these as well, especially if you want to teach someone the scientific names that go with species for which they already know the common names. Understand, though, that common names can also be misleading in terms of relationships. The Great-Spangled Fritillary, the Variegated Fritillary, all the Lesser Fritillaries, although all nymphalids, are reasonably closely related but certainly not congeneric. Throw in the Gulf Fritillary (at least in a different subfamily) and the Duke of Burgundy Fritillary (the only metalmark in Europe) and you can see what I mean. What to make of all of this? Don't be frightened of learning *either* set of names. Learning scientific names can be fun, but doesn't automatically put you above your common-name using public, and knowing common names doesn't make you any less scientific. That's it (hopefully) . . . James Dr. James K. Adams Dept. of Natural Science and Math Dalton State College 213 N. College Drive Dalton, GA 30720 Phone: (706)272-4427; fax: (706)272-2533 U of Michigan's President James Angell's Secret of Success: "Grow antennae, not horns" ------- End of forwarded message ------- Dr. James K. Adams Dept. of Natural Science and Math Dalton State College 213 N. College Drive Dalton, GA 30720 Phone: (706)272-4427; fax: (706)272-2533 http://www.daltonstate.edu/galeps/ (Georgia Lepidoptera) U of Michigan's President James Angell's Secret of Success: "Grow antennae, not horns" ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Mon Apr 23 16:19:05 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:19:05 -0500 Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - ad nauseam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010423151634.00b28670@pop3.norton.antivirus> Glad you mentioned that. It seems to work. .........Chris Durden At 09:02 AM 4/23/2001 -0700, you wrote: , and another strategy is to simply NOT use the address >book (if there are no addresses in it, no virus can use your e-mail to >proliferate itself). > >Peace, > > >Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum >Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Mon Apr 23 16:19:02 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:19:02 -0400 Subject: common names post 578 References: Message-ID: <002201c0cc32$a3c06520$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Ernest, Your personal post prompted some thoughts that I wanted to share with the wider audience. So here goes. RG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest Mengersen" To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 9:03 PM Subject: Re: common names > That was my whole point Ron. Names are just communication tools and one uses the name they feel most comfortable with. Neither common names nor "scientific names" are stable!!! They change for many reasons. What I have come to hate most is the snooty attitude of the.... -big snip ...I think I mentioned in my note it is the attitude we develop when using the different names that is totally beyond me. -big snip > Ernest >> "Ron Gatrelle" 04/22/01 01:54PM >>> -big snip My beef with the common names movement is that it genders less knowledge not more. (Common names may indeed gender more general interest but not knowledge - especially since the Gurus of this are against subspecies being given common names.).... >> Ron new message Ernest, This is what is good about people talking with each other and not just at each other. This is because it eventually gets down to understanding the other party as each rephrases and emphasizes what they are really trying to communicate. In reading your last post and then mine again, you helped me to see my real problem and why I have not communicated it very well. I think you and I are actually saying the same thing. That is, we are both bothered not by the mere use of common or Latinized names, but the way clicks of people use them relative to their own agendas. While you are referring to the snooty attitude of "professionals", I am referring to the snooty attitude of "amateurs". Now, neither bad attitude is actually endemic to either - as there are plenty of "professionals" (PhDs like yourself) who regularly use common names and "amateurs" (non degreed like me) who regularly use Latinized names - just because that is what each individual is familiar with and thus relates to. Through your last post I see I have miscommunicated to everyone on the subject of "Common Names". In actuality I have no beef with common names at all. I've been trying to say I have a complaint with their current "use". What I have meant is their use 1) as limited to species only and 2) usage at the elimination of Latinized names. broader comments *(footnote) The "dumbing down" is because subspecies are not named, and thus not mentioned - by any name. Most of the world's taxa are subspecies. The dumbing down is in many of the "guide" books I see being put out that ignore subspecies. To me, no indepth taxonomic knowledge is needed to write these books. They look more like fadish money makers than publications to fill informational voids - as the same information was in the last book. (Klots was the last great leps guide in my opinion.) Hey, that's just how it seems to me ;-) (There are several real good new books out there too - like Gochfeld's.) Note how in my last post I referred to "My beef with the common names _movement_." In that rather passing comment I revealed my real problem - not the names - but their restricted use - by a movement of people who seem to have decided for the rest of us that subspecies don't matter, and thus don't need names as we don't need to know about them. The reality here is that these subspecies do exist in nature (if not in their books) and already have names ( Latinized). Since there is now a void of subspecific common names, or at least usage, I have been posting about "common names". Naturally, a reader would easily come away with the idea that I was anti common names for anti common names sake. No so at all. I see now that my aversion is a backlash to the snobbish elitist restricted non-use and/or non-creation of them!! My apologies to butterfly common names as you are not a problem. I have been picking on you and all the time it has been your master I should have been impugning. You are not dumbed down or dumb. You are simply a term for the people of your language to use in communicating about an organism. This is evident as I have said all along that there is a place for you especially with beginners and in everyday conversation. My disdain should have gone out to those who deprive the rest of us of knowledge - by their refusal to use any names in any language (Latinized or common) for the thousands of described subspecific taxa. By doing so they are depriving us of (or making it much harder to find out the) knowledge we need about the organisms we are so interested in. This of course reminds me of the motto on The International Lepidoptera Survey. "We can not protect that which we do not know." And you know what, lepidopterists will try to protect that which they know needs it. So either give us the existent Latinized names - not because we need the Latin - but because we need and want to know. Or, create and use common names for these organisms - not because common names are any better or worse - but because we want to know these things exist, where they are, and what their status is in the wild. EVERYDAY SHOULD BE EARTH DAY. TELL US MORE ABOUT ITS HABITANTS AND THEIR NEEDS - NOT LESS. WE WANT TO KNOW. FEEL FREE TO USE ANY WORDS YOU WANT - BUT TELL US. Ron Gatrelle *All of the above relates to words/names for sake of communication. None of the above changes the fact that the "official" identifies of all the world's organisms are overseen and regulated by the rules of the applicable international scientific bodies. Like medical drugs, they may have many different generic (common) names, but in writing a subscription the technical scientific terms for the material composition is, and must be, universal. Common names are not functional, and are thus not allowed, in the technical scientific arena. Sorry, members only there. This has nothing to do with elitism - just common sense. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Mon Apr 23 16:47:55 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:47:55 -0400 Subject: per - not sub Message-ID: <003601c0cc36$acb4bc40$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> Darn spell checker finger clicker. Drug subscription hugh? Let's try prescription. And I'm writing about words?! Hey, I can always blame it on me being just another dumb American. While I'm at it. Since I don't bite, just bark a lot. Just role up a news paper and hit me with it - I'm used to it. RG ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mbpi at juno.com Mon Apr 23 19:33:25 2001 From: mbpi at juno.com (mbpi at juno.com) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:33:25 -0500 Subject: Fw: Re: (Fwd) Names . . . Message-ID: <20010423.183327.-143807.3.mbpi@juno.com> Now this saved email (from before my time on this listserv), says EXACTLY what I was TRYING to say, when I first initiated this never-ending debate. I NEVER said I was a "proponent of common names;" what I DID say was that I wanted "more information," be it Family name or a place of reference (moth or butterfly, indigenous or foreign) to which I could attach/relate the scientific name in my realm of the world in which I live...so I COULD find out more about what species was being talked about, if I was so inclined (!) That fact was quite simply IGNORED, and worse: implicated as my having "an agenda" (!) I have never seen a listserv where the simplest commentaries get so convoluted and bent out of context from the premise of the original post. I can only surmise that the most vociferous of you don't really "read" what is written, but rather are lurking in the ether, ready to "shoot from the hip" at the slightest mention of anything that diverges from your self-imbued and erroneous criteria for what makes a person "smart" or "dumb," ie. professional or amateur. And I agree with the attached message that just because a person chooses to use a "common name," doesn't make them a contributor to the "dumbing down" of others. I'd say it makes them more accommodating and accessible, ie. willing to impart information to those who aren't as knowledgeable in scientific nomenclature. Don't "assume" that someone who uses common names is ignorant of scientific names. That truly IS an "eliticist attitude." Mary Beth Prondzinski On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:08:38 +0200 Guy_VdP at t-online.de (Guy Van de Poel & A. Kalus) writes: > I liked this post the last time. I still like it. > Could you send it a little bit earlier next time ? > > Guy. > > -----Original Message----- > From: DR. JAMES ADAMS > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Date: maandag 23 april 2001 20:00 > Subject: (Fwd) Names . . . > > > Dear listers, > > I saved this message the last time this discussion came up, > assuming it would be useful again. I was right. > > I will also add that, although Ron has included some stuff I > strongly agree with, I disagree that common names are in any way > associated with dumbing down. You can just as easily apply a > new common name to a new taxon as you can a new scientific > name to a new taxon. I guarantee you that Jeffrey Glassburg > (excuse me if I spelled it incorrectly) is out there ready to put a > common name on any newly recognized species. > > Here's the old version of the message . . . it includes some > references to other conversations at the time, but the overall > meaning and sentiment are clear. > ________________ > > Well, I was going to stay out of this discussion this > round, as I have had a lot to say in past rounds of this discussion, > but I couldn't help myself. > > Just a few points: > > 1. It bothers me to hear people talk about "resistance to" or "fear > of" learning "scientific" names. I *do* think part of the problem > is > some of us scientists; we need to be willing and open to the general > public, and willing to use common names when communicating > with people > who don't know the scientific names. To call them "Latin" names, > however, is a joke. "Latinized" maybe. Alright, alright, some of > the > names are well-thought-through latin representations of something > that > has to do with the actual creature being described, but some have > their roots in other languages (like Greek, etc.), and just as many > are simply creative mind-wisps (the hymenopteran genera "Aha" > and > "Ohno" come to mind -- look at Doug Yanega's website and you'll > see a > huge sampling of scientific names that are far from being either > Latin > or scientific). However, I do think that the general public can > learn > these names easily if we just look at them as another set of > names. > The flower people learn them simply because those are the names > that > the flowers have. Well, gee whiz, guess what? The same is true > for > *all* scientific names of *all* organisms. They have the name -- it > just needs to be grasped with enthusiasm. Unfortunately, maybe > Anne > is right and we need to teach people this early. If scientific > names > are presented in an appropriate environment from an enthusiastic > presenter, people would be much less afraid of the names and > much more > willing to learn. > > 2. About pronunciation. Ken was right -- don't worry about it!! > Give it your best shot, and even if you are not technically correct, > if you are able to pronounce the individual letters you should be > able > to produce a pronunciation that is recognizable to virtually > everyone. > As for those scientists who demand precise enunciation, I say > "pblpblpblfft"! I like knowing what the exact pronunciation is > (although this also may differ in different parts of the world, as > was > indicated before), but am thrilled when anyone is interested in > learning these names. > > 3. As for stability. I think the point has clearly been made about > communication across the face of the globe. Common names > simply are > not useful for this. I truly *do* believe that the English speaking > world is very ethnocentric in terms of demanding common name > usage. > This is nothing short of inconsiderate and rude to the rest of the > world (I have news for you -- English speakers are still the > minority > in the world!). Although it may be possible to make common > names > reasonably stable in one language in one location, clearly it is > impossible to do this worldwide. On the other hand, this is exactly > the point of scientific names. Okay, so there is also instability > in > the scientific names, but each day progress is made toward more > stability. I do have news for everyone -- *no* set of names, common > or scientific, is ever going to be completely stable. Don't forget, > humans came up with the names in the first place, and as long as > humans are involved in the process (which is forever) there will be > differences in opinion. [Not only that, but as Ron points out in > this > round, the taxa themselves are, of course, continuing to change.] > All that aside, scientific names do allow you > to reach a much wider audience, and also indicate relatedness > between > organisms as has been discussed previously. Don't get me wrong, > I do > use common names for butterflies and for a lot of moths, and some > of > these indicate relatedness appropriately as well. It is important > to > know these as well, especially if you want to teach someone the > scientific names that go with species for which they already know > the > common names. Understand, though, that common names can > also be > misleading in terms of relationships. The Great-Spangled > Fritillary, > the Variegated Fritillary, all the Lesser Fritillaries, although all > nymphalids, are reasonably closely related but certainly not > congeneric. Throw in the Gulf Fritillary (at least in a different > subfamily) and the Duke of Burgundy Fritillary (the only metalmark > in > Europe) and you can see what I mean. > > What to make of all of this? Don't be frightened of learning > *either* set of names. Learning scientific names can be fun, but > doesn't automatically put you above your common-name using > public, and > knowing common names doesn't make you any less scientific. > > That's it (hopefully) . . . > > James > > Dr. James K. Adams > Dept. of Natural Science and Math > Dalton State College > 213 N. College Drive > Dalton, GA 30720 > Phone: (706)272-4427; fax: (706)272-2533 > U of Michigan's President James Angell's > Secret of Success: "Grow antennae, not horns" > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > Dr. James K. Adams > Dept. of Natural Science and Math > Dalton State College > 213 N. College Drive > Dalton, GA 30720 > Phone: (706)272-4427; fax: (706)272-2533 > http://www.daltonstate.edu/galeps/ (Georgia Lepidoptera) > U of Michigan's President James Angell's > Secret of Success: "Grow antennae, not horns" > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mario.maier at med.siemens.de Tue Apr 24 05:58:32 2001 From: mario.maier at med.siemens.de (Mario Maier) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:58:32 +0200 Subject: common names References: Message-ID: <9c3mdd$8b3$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de> > I remember reading somewhere that our dear old Monarch - Danaus plexippus (whatever happened to that thread and how is the migration going?) has had about 5 different scientific names but only one common name. So much for stability! Can anyone corroborate? Is that true or is it another tale? > In that case you may be right! The Monarch is an exception. I think this is the only butterfly which is worlwide known with it's common name. Maybe also a second butterfly - the Apollo -, too. But in almost all other cases this doesn't work. f.e. In Europe there is a butterfly called Hamearis lucina. There are a lot of common names for that butterfly even in Germany! (Brauner W?rfelfalter, Braunfleckiger W?rfelfalter, Fr?hlingsscheckenfalter, Schl?sselblumen - W?rfelfalter) Do you know any of that names?? In Britain that butterfly is called "Duke of Burgundy Fritillary". Not only the different names are confusion, the names are inaccurately, too! Fritillary suggests that this butterfly belongs to the fritillaries group(Mellicta, Melitaea etc.) Also the German name "Scheckenfalter" suggests that. But this is wrong, in Germany that butterfly just mimes that group. In other countries the Hamearis species looks like Blues. Another clue is that some species don't have any common name at all. So I think it is okay, when you use the common names when talking to a "non specialist" in your own language. But if you'd like to make international conversation you should really use the latin names. - okay, Monarch is accepted ;-) Best regards Mario Homepage: http://EuropeanButterflies.com ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Tue Apr 24 17:47:09 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:47:09 -0400 Subject: field reoprt Message-ID: <001d01c0cd08$1d935080$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> For April 24, 2001 Made it out today from noon to 4. Species continue to be few and local population levels for many species are very low. It does look as though the three unseasonal freezes we had here along the South Carolina coast damaged species across the board. Temps would get up into the upper 70's for a week and then drop to just below 30 or so for a couple nights. This occurred three times from mid February to mid April. On Edisto Island I found the following. Brephidium isophthalma insularus. (Island Pigmy Blue). 1 fresh male - Lots of chewing on its larval host but no larvae found. Limenitis archippus - couple of males. We get a lot here that look like watsoni but that subspecies is restricted evolutionarily to the Gulf region. Junoina coenia - just a couple. Phyciodes tharos - few worn first generation females. In Colleton County near Hwy 17. In swamp forest. Satyrodes appalachia - several to many males - all very fresh - just emerging. Megisto viola - many but not any where near as abundant as this usually is. Nearing the last part of its brood - most tattered - few fresh. This butterfly flies here in the swamp forests in the hundreds to thousands. If anyone wants to do mtDNA on these I took a few today just in case. Just ask. M. cymela follows close behind it but is rare by comparison (in same areas). I occasionally find worn female viola still out when the fresh male cymela begin to emerge about May 20. Cyllopsis gemma - IDed a couple and were likely many about. Hermeuptychia sosybia - many Enodia portlandia and creola are also at this area but I did not see any today. RG ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From andrew.brand at snet.net Tue Apr 24 18:56:29 2001 From: andrew.brand at snet.net (Andrew Brand) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:56:29 -0400 Subject: hamden leps Message-ID: <001f01c0cd11$cd17c8c0$5ec93ccc@cmfcu> 4/24 Hamden, Broken Arrow Nursery-- 3 Brown Elfin, many Spring Azure, Mourning Cloak, Orange Sulphur -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010424/fb128dfb/attachment.html From hankb at theriver.com Tue Apr 24 19:57:06 2001 From: hankb at theriver.com (Hank & Priscilla Brodkin) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:57:06 -0700 Subject: hamden leps References: <001f01c0cd11$cd17c8c0$5ec93ccc@cmfcu> Message-ID: <3AE612D2.68736AF9@theriver.com> > Andrew Brand wrote: > > 4/24 Hamden, Broken Arrow Nursery-- 3 Brown Elfin, many Spring Azure, > Mourning Cloak, Orange Sulphur > Andrew - Hamden where? -- Hank & Priscilla Brodkin Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide" by Bob Stewart, Priscilla and Hank Brodkin - due September 2001 http://pages.zdnet.com/hbrodkin/butterfliesofarizona/ ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Citheronia at aol.com Tue Apr 24 23:07:36 2001 From: Citheronia at aol.com (Citheronia at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:07:36 EDT Subject: DC UV light setup Message-ID: Hello all, I was wondering if any of you out there happen to have a UV setup (DC), like the ones that you'd get from BioQuip, etc, that you aren't using any more. I found out yesterday, much to my dismay, that mine was broken. If someone would be willing to lend me one for the summer, or sell one to me, I would be very appreciative. Thank you very much, Randy Lyttle 901 Cayuga Street Hannibal, NY 13074 Citheronia at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010424/1d2c9830/attachment.html From Lawrence_Turner at msn.com Wed Apr 25 00:41:06 2001 From: Lawrence_Turner at msn.com (Lawrence Turner) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:41:06 -0700 Subject: Phyllocnitis Message-ID: In Monterey County, California, I've raised two species of Phyllocnitis so far. One mines the leaves of Prunus ilicifolia, the other mines the leaves of Salix and Populus. The mines of both species are very similar, with the larvae eventually folding over a tiny piece of leaf, on the edge, to make a shelter in which to pupate. I may have a third species too. There are similar mines with shelters on fresh, young leaves of Quercus douglasii. I'll have to wait for an adult to emerge, though, to confirm whether or not it is a phyllocnitis. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010424/0111945c/attachment.html From sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 23 22:58:36 2001 From: sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com (Pierre A Plauzoles) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:58:36 -0700 Subject: multicaudata vs multicaudatus References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAE9F@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: <3AE4EBDC.7E39F2FE@bigfoot.com> "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" wrote: > I seem to recall some postings on this topic with respect to whether Papilio > is masculine or feminine but cannot recall what the bottom line was. I > recently remembered to check my ancient latin/english dictionary and it > claims that Papilio is masculine which suggests for those of us who chose to > follow the ICZN rules that multicaudatus is the correct spelling. Does > anyone have reason to disagree with papilio as masculine ? if so, why. Ah, but, is the meaning of the term "with multiple tails" (an prepositional phrase in which the noun is plural) or is it something like "multi-tailed" (where "tailed" is a past participle -- therefore a part of a verb -- acting as an adjective modifying the noun "Papilio")? As I recall, the plural of multicaudatus would be multicaudata. :-) Now that that question is laid to rest, another crops up: does it amount to a hill of beans? I think so, but not much more. Still, since you are the one with "The Book" on the subject, I will defer to you. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Wed Apr 25 09:58:00 2001 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 06:58:00 -0700 Subject: multicaudata vs multicaudatus Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF16@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> I agree that this is a small hill of beans in the grand scheme of things. The size depends entirely on what importance one places on following the code of zoological nomenclature. I certainly agree with those people who do not place any value on the gender congruence provisions of the code. Why ? Well because society has changed dramatically over the years and most biologists, myself included, do not much familiarity with Latin. So even when we try to follow the rules it is still easy to produce an erroneous result. For most people the code provisions on this point are pointless. I certainly support vigorous efforts to bring the code into the twenty first century by replacing the current provisions with an "original useage" clause. In the interim, it is my choice to respect the rules as best I can, with full recognition that errors will result due to not being a Latin scholar. Readers who get paid to do taxonomy please take heed, show some positive leadership, do your jobs and get cracking on getting that code changed. Ignoring a code provision is, in my opinion, not the right thing to do. My two cents worth on this topic :-) -----Original Message----- From: Pierre A Plauzoles [mailto:sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:59 PM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Subject: Re: multicaudata vs multicaudatus "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" wrote: > I seem to recall some postings on this topic with respect to whether Papilio > is masculine or feminine but cannot recall what the bottom line was. I > recently remembered to check my ancient latin/english dictionary and it > claims that Papilio is masculine which suggests for those of us who chose to > follow the ICZN rules that multicaudatus is the correct spelling. Does > anyone have reason to disagree with papilio as masculine ? if so, why. Ah, but, is the meaning of the term "with multiple tails" (an prepositional phrase in which the noun is plural) or is it something like "multi-tailed" (where "tailed" is a past participle -- therefore a part of a verb -- acting as an adjective modifying the noun "Papilio")? As I recall, the plural of multicaudatus would be multicaudata. :-) Now that that question is laid to rest, another crops up: does it amount to a hill of beans? I think so, but not much more. Still, since you are the one with "The Book" on the subject, I will defer to you. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From mariposa at iastate.edu Wed Apr 25 11:42:45 2001 From: mariposa at iastate.edu (Royce J. Bitzer) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:42:45 -0500 Subject: Red Admirals Migrating through Iowa Message-ID: <200104251542.KAA10318@mailhub.iastate.edu> Red Admirals have been migrating northward through central Iowa for the past several days. I noticed the first migrators on Sunday, April 22. Monday was too cold, but the butterflies were moving again yesterday (Apr. 24). They were seen at the rate of about one every 3 to 5 minutes. Flight headings of 90% of the butterflies varied from north-northwest through northeast (of a sample of 20 butterflies observed). The wind was south-southwesterly at 10-15 mph, under mostly sunny skies and temperatures in the mid- to upper 60s. Any other reports of this migration would be welcome. I would appreciate knowing if you have seen (or will see) migrating red admirals passing through your area. Please include your full name, the location from which you observed, the date or dates when you see red admirals passing through your area, and the direction toward which they seem to be moving. A rough estimate of how frequently they are passing through would also be useful. Also note the weather conditions as I did above. There have also been a relatively small number of Painted Ladies moving with the red admirals; if you see these as well, please let me know. If you would like to collect and report more detailed data, such as precise flight headings, hourly counts during a particular time period each day, or flight speed, I have instructions on the web page http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mariposa/observe1.html All participants will be recognized in the acknowledgements of any journal articles in which these data might be published. If you provide more detailed observations and would then like to be considered as a co-author on any publications, please let me know. Thank you for your time and interest. Royce J. Bitzer mariposa at iastate.edu Dept. of Entomology 113A Insectary Iowa State University Ames, Iowa 50011 Phone: (515) 294-8663 http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mariposa/homepage.html The Red Admiral and Painted Lady Website A web site to encourage and coordinate field studies of territorial behavior and migration of Vanessa butterflies ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Wed Apr 25 12:03:43 2001 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:03:43 -0700 Subject: Pyrgus genitalia Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF1C@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Back in 1935, in a paper in the transactions of the royal entomological society of london, Warren takes exception to Hollands lumping of Pyrgus freija under Pyrgus centaureae. He then provides 4 pages of material to support his opinion of these being different species. Genitalic differences are the main component of the information presented. In reading this I ran into two technical terms for genitalic structures that I am not familiar with. These are "cullier" and "antistyle". Can anyone provide some different/more modern synonyms for these words ?? Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu Wed Apr 25 13:32:38 2001 From: fnkwp at aurora.alaska.edu (Kenelm Philip) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:32:38 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: Pyrgus genitalia Message-ID: From _Taxonomist's Glossary of Genitalia in Insects_, edited by S.L.Tuxen: "Antistyle.....Chapman 1919 in Hesperiidae. A process of stylifer of valva. --> also _Ampulla_. Cuiller.....Reverdin 1910 in Hesperiidae. Spoon-shaped, usually ventro- distal, process of inner face of valva. --> also _Harpe_ Sibatani et al." The term 'stylifer' = 'style', and as far as leps go Tuxen has: "Style....Rambur 1837 in Heperiidae. A projecting process of inner face of dorsal part of valva." Ken Philip fnkwp at uaf.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Wed Apr 25 14:28:08 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:28:08 -0500 Subject: Fwd: RE: multicaudata vs multicaudatus Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010425132800.00b2ac90@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:55:07 -0500 >To: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca >From: "Chris J. Durden" >Subject: RE: multicaudata vs multicaudatus > >Norbert & Pierre, > At last some concrete information that leaves us with two possibilities - >*Papilio multicaudata* - "butterfly, the multi-tailed" >*Papilio multicaudatus* - "the multi-tailed butterfly" > With both forms grammatically correct I think we must take the first > as nomenclatorially correct by original usage by Kirby who was familiar > with Latin. > With the noun-in-apposition construction it does not matter what > gender the genus is. >*Pterourus multicaudata* is thus "correct" too. >...............Chris Durden > >At 06:58 AM 4/25/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>I agree that this is a small hill of beans in the grand scheme of things. >>The size depends entirely on what importance one places on following the >>code of zoological nomenclature. I certainly agree with those people who do >>not place any value on the gender congruence provisions of the code. Why ? >>Well because society has changed dramatically over the years and most >>biologists, myself included, do not much familiarity with Latin. So even >>when we try to follow the rules it is still easy to produce an erroneous >>result. For most people the code provisions on this point are pointless. I >>certainly support vigorous efforts to bring the code into the twenty first >>century by replacing the current provisions with an "original useage" >>clause. In the interim, it is my choice to respect the rules as best I can, >>with full recognition that errors will result due to not being a Latin >>scholar. Readers who get paid to do taxonomy please take heed, show some >>positive leadership, do your jobs and get cracking on getting that code >>changed. Ignoring a code provision is, in my opinion, not the right thing to >>do. My two cents worth on this topic :-) >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Pierre A Plauzoles [mailto:sphinxangelorum at bigfoot.com] >>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:59 PM >>To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu >>Subject: Re: multicaudata vs multicaudatus >> >> >>"Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" wrote: >> >> > I seem to recall some postings on this topic with respect to whether >>Papilio >> > is masculine or feminine but cannot recall what the bottom line was. I >> > recently remembered to check my ancient latin/english dictionary and it >> > claims that Papilio is masculine which suggests for those of us who chose >>to >> > follow the ICZN rules that multicaudatus is the correct spelling. Does >> > anyone have reason to disagree with papilio as masculine ? if so, why. >> >>Ah, but, is the meaning of the term "with multiple tails" (an prepositional >>phrase in which the noun is plural) or is it something like "multi-tailed" >>(where "tailed" is a past participle -- therefore a part of a verb -- acting >>as >>an adjective modifying the noun "Papilio")? As I recall, the plural of >>multicaudatus would be multicaudata. :-) Now that that question is laid to >>rest, another crops up: does it amount to a hill of beans? I think so, but >>not >>much more. >> >>Still, since you are the one with "The Book" on the subject, I will defer to >>you. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: >> >> http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: >> >> http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl >> ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Noah_s_root at msn.com Wed Apr 25 18:20:57 2001 From: Noah_s_root at msn.com (Noah Root) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:20:57 -0500 Subject: No subject Message-ID: INDEX LEPS-L
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010425/52c63b0b/attachment.html From Monarchrst at aol.com Wed Apr 25 23:53:09 2001 From: Monarchrst at aol.com (Monarchrst at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:53:09 EDT Subject: Red Admirals Migrating through Iowa Message-ID: In southern Arizona we have had a major migration of Painted Lady Vanessa cardui (L.) going on almost continuously since April 11, 2001. The first and smaller peak was on Thursday, April 12 with 20-25 per minute passing across a 20-yard stretch of my driveway. The day was clear, calm and sunny, maximum temperature was 75 F, and the butterflies were traveling roughly in a south-east direction, presumably from the big hatches going on in our own lower deserts in Arizona. Over the next week or so the numbers became less and the direction of the butterflies gradually changed to a north-north-west direction. This week we hit one of the biggest migrations I have seen here, that peaked on Monday, April 23, and for several hours the number crossing the same 20 yard stretch of driveway increased to a staggering 200 per minute that day. All traveling in a north-north-west direction. That number was sustained for almost the entire day. Even today we were reaching numbers of 40-50 per minute but today their habits were changing and instead of unwaveringly flying in one direction, many more were stopping to nectar on any flowering plants, shrubs or trees they could find. Again the days were clear, sunny, calm and hot. Maximum temperature on Monday was 86 F and that had increased to 99 F by this afternoon. Motorists were finding difficulty in driving due to the squished bodies on their windshields and all vehicles with radiator grills had almost a uniform covering of bodies and wings plastered on their front surfaces. The television, radio and newspapers have all taken to brief articles on the phenomenon. A few weeks ago the same media were talking about the hundreds of mature cardui larvae that were troubling many of the homeowners on the desert edges. This spring we had significantly more rain than normal at exactly the right time to trigger massive plant growth in the deserts and many areas have been totally covered in spring flowers, now mostly drying out. Ian Watkinson, Yuma, Arizona. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From monarch at saber.net Thu Apr 26 00:25:31 2001 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:25:31 -0700 Subject: Red Admirals Migrating through Iowa References: Message-ID: <3AE7A33B.19DB@saber.net> Today has been an outstanding day for the Painted Lady migration in the Sacramento area of California. At any moment some could be seen in flight including right up to sunset this evening. They have been consistently moving NW, occassionally W and rarely SW. I don't recall seeing any going N or NE. They are moderately faded but not tattered. I would say in the neighborhood of 5-10 per minute are crossing a 100 foot long line in front of me. Impressive, but certainly nothing close to the 200 per minute that have been seen in Yuma. The first big migrations began around April 16-17, then came a period of cold wet weather with few in flight and now we are back into calm, hot weather. The last big year for Painted Ladies we had was in the April & May 1992. That year I saw a big northward migration while driving from Reno to Salt Lake City during the 3rd week of May. Paul Cherubini, Placerville, Calif. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu Apr 26 08:31:47 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:31:47 -0400 Subject: Fwd: RE: multicaudata vs multicaudatus In-Reply-To: "Chris J. Durden" "Fwd: RE: multicaudata vs multicaudatus" (Apr 25, 1:28pm) References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010425132800.00b2ac90@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <1010426083150.ZM3558@Gochfeld> If you don't like common names go to 2. 1. The example below shows why the common names of species should be treated as proper nouns and capitalized since (style manuals notwithstanding) they refer to unique entities. Use in a sentence: There flies a multi-tailed butterfly". Does that refer to one of many butterflies which happen to have more than one tail, or to a member of a single species (Papilio multicaudatus, the Multi-tailed Butterfly). At last some concrete information that leaves us with two possibilities - >*Papilio multicaudata* - "butterfly, the multi-tailed" >*Papilio multicaudatus* - "the multi-tailed butterfly" CONCLUSIONS: Species as unique entities are proper nouns and ought to be capitlized to avoid confusion. Try for example, the little metalmark. If I keep this up I will make a case for not using common names. 2. Bye ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu Apr 26 08:44:23 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:44:23 -0400 Subject: ICZN In-Reply-To: "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" "RE: multicaudata vs multicaudatus" (Apr 25, 6:58am) References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF16@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: <1010426084426.ZM3558@Gochfeld> I second Norbert's point. But (or And), like the names we are discussing, the code itself isn't stable. So it can be changed, and I think one way that compels its change is when there are changes in usage. The late Gene Eisenmann of the AMNH pointed out to me (while he was alive) that a number of the "corrections" made when species were assigned to new genera, were grammatically incorrect. I.e. the author thought they were masculinizing or feminizing an ending, but did it improperly (if I recall it was usually because they misunderstood the gender of the generic name). I think its reasonable for the original describer of a new species to get gender agreement right. But scientific names are not Latin sentences, and stability ought to be more important than grammar which (as Norbert pointed out) most of us (and certainly most future students) wouldn't recognize anyway. Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Thu Apr 26 11:19:30 2001 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:19:30 -0700 Subject: Curious centaureae case Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF38@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> As a result of starting to dig into the literature on the nominal species Pyrgus centaureae; I find myself uncomfortable with the idea that North American taxa should even be considered as the same species. What I have seen to date suggests distinct species status. If anyone is aware of published or unpublished reasons or evidence as to why we should recognize Pyrgus centaureae as being present in North America; please drop me a line. Thank you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment 845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 Phone 250-365-8610 Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca http://www.env.gov.bc.ca ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Thu Apr 26 11:38:47 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:38:47 -0500 Subject: Fwd: RE: multicaudata vs multicaudatus In-Reply-To: <1010426083150.ZM3558@Gochfeld> References: <"Chris J. Durden" <4.3.2.7.2.20010425132800.00b2ac90@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010426102001.00ac5760@pop3.norton.antivirus> Michael, If you really want to use a common name for *Pterourus multicadata* the oldest is Xochiquetzalpapalotl, which as one of the earthly manifestations of a deity, should not be taken lightly. This butterfly was known to the inhabitants of Teotihuacan in Mexico, who depicted both adult and pupa in painted clay effigies. The species ranges from Alberta to Guatemala and from Central Texas to California with several poorly known subspecies. The individuals with longest forewing that I have found so far are from Travis Co. TX. These are the largest butterflies found north of the Mexico where they are exceeded only by *Caligo* species. Xochiquetzalpapalotl = flower-feathered-serpent-butterfly (from Nahuatl) Pterourus multicadata = wing-that-glows-with-passion, the many-tailed (from Latin) ...................Chris Durden At 08:31 AM 4/26/2001 -0400, you wrote: >If you don't like common names go to 2. > >1. The example below shows why the common names of species should be >treated as proper nouns and capitalized since (style manuals >notwithstanding) they refer to unique entities. > >Use in a sentence: There flies a multi-tailed butterfly". > >Does that refer to one of many butterflies which happen to have more >than one tail, or to a member of a single species (Papilio >multicaudatus, the Multi-tailed Butterfly). > > > > At last some concrete information that leaves us with two >possibilities - > >*Papilio multicaudata* - "butterfly, the multi-tailed" > >*Papilio multicaudatus* - "the multi-tailed butterfly" > >CONCLUSIONS: Species as unique entities are proper nouns and ought to be >capitlized to avoid confusion. Try for example, the little metalmark. > >If I keep this up I will make a case for not using common names. > >2. Bye > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Thu Apr 26 11:55:32 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:55:32 -0500 Subject: ICZN In-Reply-To: <1010426084426.ZM3558@Gochfeld> References: <"Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF16@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010426104047.00b32e30@pop3.norton.antivirus> Michael, We have the same problem with "English" as a new international language of technology, business and communications. Which is "correct" of these fabricated technical terms - "pictel" or "pixel". The first is an Old World usage which is correctly constructed from the English words picture and element. The second is a New World usage correctly constructed from the slang word pix and the English word element. As with Pidgin English as a universal language for communication, we are stuck with "Pidgin" (Columbic?[1]) Latin as a universal language for scientific names. ......................Chris Durden [1.] as a native of Corsica was Columbus an Italian or a Frenchman or was he a royal bastard from Spain? - see the paper by the spider expert Bonnet. At 08:44 AM 4/26/2001 -0400, you wrote: >I second Norbert's point. But (or And), like the names we are >discussing, the code itself isn't stable. So it can be changed, and I >think one way that compels its change is when there are changes in >usage. > >The late Gene Eisenmann of the AMNH pointed out to me (while he was >alive) that a number of the "corrections" made when species were >assigned to new genera, were grammatically incorrect. I.e. the author >thought they were masculinizing or feminizing an ending, but did it >improperly (if I recall it was usually because they misunderstood the >gender of the generic name). > >I think its reasonable for the original describer of a new species to >get gender agreement right. But scientific names are not Latin >sentences, and stability ought to be more important than grammar which >(as Norbert pointed out) most of us (and certainly most future students) >wouldn't recognize anyway. > >Mike Gochfeld > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu Apr 26 12:18:37 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:18:37 -0400 Subject: New World vs Old World Pyrgus In-Reply-To: "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" "Curious centaureae case" (Apr 26, 8:19am) References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF38@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: <1010426121841.ZM20406@Gochfeld> After reading Norbert's first question about Pyrgus genitalis, I was about to pose a question to the list about the status of the Appalachian Grizzled Skipper and its relationship to the Old World P. centaurae. Then I saw Norbert's post with essentially the same question. Here is the way we treated it in BUTTERFLIES OF NEW JERSEY. Appalachian Grizzled Skipper Pyrgus wyandot (Edwards, 1863) "We follow compelling arguments of Shapiro (1974a) and Schweitzer (1989) that this be treated as a distinct species. The NABA Checklist (1995) and many other sources treat it as a race of the Grizzled Skipper (P.centaurae), which is primarily a Eurasian species, but has a race P. centaurae freija extending from Alaska to eastern Canada...." "Comment: Often treated as a race of the Grizzled Skipper (P.centaurae), but Shapiro (1974a) argued that wyandot was specifically distinct based on genitalia, and Schweitzer (1989) pointed out that habitat, food plants, and larval characteristics supported its distinctness." The Shapiro reference is BUTTERFLIES AND SKIPPER OF NEW YORK STATE Search 4:1-60, a faunal work rather than a taxonomic treatise. The Schweitzer reference is A REVIEW OF CATEGORY 2 INSECTA IN USFWS REGIONS 3,4,5 Unpublished report for USFWS----a conservation publication rather than a taxonomic treatise. Given that neither of my sources of information was a standard systematic publication (yet compelled by the arguments, nonetheless), that was why I was going to pose the question about wyandot. If P.wyandot is specifically distinct from P.centaurae, it would still be necessary to address the relatedness of P. freija. Is it centaurae, wyandot or something distinct. Or is this an example of a ring species. Mike Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From drdn at mail.utexas.edu Thu Apr 26 12:50:20 2001 From: drdn at mail.utexas.edu (Chris J. Durden) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:50:20 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: Curious centaureae case Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010426115006.00b4aee0@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:46:48 -0500 >To: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca >From: "Chris J. Durden" >Subject: Re: Curious centaureae case > >My understanding has been that *centaureae* is a dry tundra species and >*freija* is a bog species. I have found *freija* in the field but not yet >seen *centaureae*. The southern *loki* can occur on wet or dry tundra, may >be a distinct species but is structurally closest to *freija*. The >southern *wyandot* is a quite distinct species of pine barren and >fire-heath habitat east of the Appalachians. >................Chris Durden > >At 08:19 AM 4/26/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>As a result of starting to dig into the literature on the nominal species >>Pyrgus centaureae; I find myself uncomfortable with the idea that North >>American taxa should even be considered as the same species. What I have >>seen to date suggests distinct species status. If anyone is aware of >>published or unpublished reasons or evidence as to why we should recognize >>Pyrgus centaureae as being present in North America; please drop me a line. >>Thank you. >> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Norbert Kondla P.Biol., RPBio. >>Forest Ecosystem Specialist, Ministry of Environment >>845 Columbia Avenue, Castlegar, British Columbia V1N 1H3 >>Phone 250-365-8610 >>Mailto:Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca >>http://www.env.gov.bc.ca >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Pyrgus.doc Type: application/msword Size: 20992 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010426/bc8fa48f/attachment.doc -------------- next part -------------- From dyanega at pop.ucr.edu Thu Apr 26 12:46:28 2001 From: dyanega at pop.ucr.edu (Doug Yanega) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:46:28 -0700 Subject: multicaudata vs multicaudatus Message-ID: Norbert Kondla wrote: >I >certainly support vigorous efforts to bring the code into the twenty first >century by replacing the current provisions with an "original useage" >clause. In the interim, it is my choice to respect the rules as best I can, >with full recognition that errors will result due to not being a Latin >scholar. Readers who get paid to do taxonomy please take heed, show some >positive leadership, do your jobs and get cracking on getting that code >changed. Readers who get paid to do taxonomy? That's what - two or three people here? I'm with you on this Code stuff, I even do taxonomy, but that's not what I'm paid for, and fighting for Code changes is pretty hopeless (I've tried). Taking on the ICZN Old Guard is like attacking a Panzer with a BB gun. Peace, Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California - Riverside, Riverside, CA 92521 phone: (909) 787-4315 (standard disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's) http://entmuseum9.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Thu Apr 26 15:59:36 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:59:36 -0400 Subject: Xochiquetzalpapalotl References: <"Chris J. Durden" <4.3.2.7.2.20010425132800.00b2ac90@pop3.norton.antivirus> <4.3.2.7.2.20010426102001.00ac5760@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3AE87E28.4D1B2B8F@eohsi.rutgers.edu> I'm working on it. Xochiquetzalpapalotl shouldn't be too difficult (Quetzalcoatl is a well-practiced Mayan term). I camped out at Teotihuacan in 1962 when there was NO ONE THERE but spirits. Too bad that won't suffice as the type locality (the Mayans did not use binomial nomenalature). Note that Xochiquetalpapalotl gets capitalized as it should. I'll probably have an easier time with this one than remembering whether multicaudata or multicaudatus is correct. Mike Gochfeld "Chris J. Durden" wrote: > > Michael, > If you really want to use a common name for *Pterourus multicadata* the > oldest is Xochiquetzalpapalotl, which as one of the earthly manifestations > of a deity, should not be taken lightly. This butterfly was known to the > inhabitants of Teotihuacan in Mexico, who depicted both adult and pupa in > painted clay effigies. The species ranges from Alberta to Guatemala and > from Central Texas to California with several poorly known subspecies. The > individuals with longest forewing that I have found so far are from Travis > Co. TX. These are the largest butterflies found north of the Mexico where > they are exceeded only by *Caligo* species. > Xochiquetzalpapalotl = flower-feathered-serpent-butterfly (from Nahuatl) > Pterourus multicadata = wing-that-glows-with-passion, the many-tailed > (from Latin) > ...................Chris Durden > > At 08:31 AM 4/26/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >If you don't like common names go to 2. > > > >1. The example below shows why the common names of species should be > >treated as proper nouns and capitalized since (style manuals > >notwithstanding) they refer to unique entities. > > > >Use in a sentence: There flies a multi-tailed butterfly". > > > >Does that refer to one of many butterflies which happen to have more > >than one tail, or to a member of a single species (Papilio > >multicaudatus, the Multi-tailed Butterfly). > > > > > > > > At last some concrete information that leaves us with two > >possibilities - > > >*Papilio multicaudata* - "butterfly, the multi-tailed" > > >*Papilio multicaudatus* - "the multi-tailed butterfly" > > > >CONCLUSIONS: Species as unique entities are proper nouns and ought to be > >capitlized to avoid confusion. Try for example, the little metalmark. > > > >If I keep this up I will make a case for not using common names. > > > >2. Bye > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > -- ================================================ Michael Gochfeld, MD, PhD Professor of Environmental and Community Medicine UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School and Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences Institute 170 Frelinghuysen Road Piscataway, NJ 08854 USA 732-445-0123 X627 fax 732-445-0130 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Thu Apr 26 19:48:48 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:48:48 -0700 Subject: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question References: <3AE3CA2A.8DE2DFA9@onemain.com> Message-ID: <3AE8B3E0.74572801@extremezone.com> This may not be proper, but when wings are difficult to open, I pinch the thorax with curved butterfly forceps. As I said, it may not be proper, and it may do damage I am unaware of, but it works for me. Stan Terry Morse wrote: > > I am a beginner at pinning and spreading > butterflies. I am trying to pin/spread a > moderately small lep, a Western Pine Elfin > (Callophrys eryphon). The insect died with its > wings in full upright position to the extent that > I can't see the thorax well enough to properly > insert the pin. I've had it in a relaxing chamber > for 24 hours ( is that sufficient? I had left the > specimen in the killing jar for the preceding 24 > hours), but am unable to get the wings to stay > spread enough on their own for me to place the > pin. It's a bit of a catch-22: To spread the > specimen, I need to pin it; but to pin it, I need > to spread the specimen. > > Can anyone suggest how I can get the wings spread > enough (I only have two hands) that I can see to > place the pin? I've tried placing the specimen on > a slightly rough surface and using butterfly > forceps to spread the wings with one hand while I > pin it with the other hand, but the specimen keeps > sliding forward. I've tried putting a pin in > front of the specimen as a stop, but it just > slides past the stop. > > My other elfin was kind enough to die with its > wings down, so it was easy to pin that one. > > Thanks, > Terry ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Lawrence_Turner at msn.com Thu Apr 26 20:25:12 2001 From: Lawrence_Turner at msn.com (Lawrence Turner) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:25:12 -0700 Subject: Nepticuliids Message-ID: This is a list of the plants from Monterey County, California, from which I've collected Nepticullid larvae. I was able to raise many to the adult stage. Some of these are probably the same species, just feeding on different plants. And also, some plants had more than one species. I hope this might be of use to someone: Toxidendron diversilobum,Berberis pinnata,Alnus rubra, Chrysolepis chrysophylla, Lithcarpus densiflora, Quercus kelloggii, Quercus agrifolia, Quercus parvula, Quercus wislizenii, Quercus douglasii, Quercus lobata, Quercus chrysolepis, Quercus berberidifolia, Quercus john-tuckeri, Juglans sp., Sidalcea malvaeflora, Platanus racemosa, Eriogonum latifolium, Eriogonum nudum, various Ceanothus species, Rhamnus californica, Rhamnus crocea, Rosa(ornamental), Rosa californica,Cercocarpus betuloides, Holodiscus discolor, Heteromeles arbutifolia, Populus balsamifera, Salix exigua, Salix scouleriana, Salix lasiolepis, Salix laevigata and Salix lasiandra. There are undoubtedly others, as this county has a vast array of native plants in quite varied habitats! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010426/29ac3103/attachment.html From MWalker at gensym.com Thu Apr 26 22:53:41 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:53:41 -0400 Subject: Dave and Mark's XLNT Adventure Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D279C50@hqmail.gensym.com> Day One - 4/18 "Dave's Not Here" An early start to a six day adventure, I ventured north from Oceanside, CA and attempted to avoid the thick cloud cover. I had two days to get to Las Vegas, where I was to pick up the other half of this dynamic lepping duo. Dave Fine was flying in from Ft. Lauderdale in anticipation of his first ever desert lepping experience. To our dismay, a bizarre cold front was sweeping down the western U.S., promising nothing but nasty weather in the 5-day forecast. Rain and snow during late April in Southern California? Who'da thought? So here I am in the western Mojave desert - just on the edge of the front. With any luck, I'll have a few hours of unobstructed sunshine. I drove all the way to Johnson Valley, on the northeastern edge of the San Bernardino Mountains. This is very close to the type locality of the Rock Corral Checkerspot (Euphydryas chalcedona corralensis), which I'd heard was on the wing. I wanted to try a few new canyons - lepping the same old "hot" spots seemed a bit redundant. I was not disappointed. The checkerspot was emerging on this day, and flying along with it's Chlosyne cousins, C. neumoegeni and C. californica, both incredibly common. It took me many years to see my first California Patch. It seems a bit unfair to find it so abundant now. The western Mojave desert floor is an amazing carpet of wildflowers. There was virtually no sand visible - only a sea of flowers. Suddenly, in my daze, I see a Swallowtail fly down from the piled boulders. I knew it was different as soon as I saw it. It flew around a corner and disappeared into a small protected canyon. I became the stalker, and tip-toed my way in as quietly as is possible for a 200 lb. 41 year old teenager with arthritis. To my astonishment (and incredible pleasure), I turned the corner to see an immaculate Papilio indra fordi nectaring on a small flower. I had never seen one before - only photos - and this one put all of those photos to shame. There is nothing quite like a nectaring Papilio - the rapid flapping of wings can be seen hundreds of feet away, and never fails to bring a smile to every lucky lepidopterist within view. However, this one was four feet away from my nose - and the resulting rapid increase in heart rate nearly killed me right on the spot. I don't need to tell you that the butterfly did not end up in my net. Oh, I'm not suggesting that I didn't swing. With heart in mouth, I most certainly did swing. I just didn't come up with anything. "Nothing but air", as they say. During the failed attempt, like so many Papilio before her, she flew two spirals around me and dashed away for greener pastures. Or drier, arid, God-forsaken pastures, as is the habit-tat of this bug. I let out an emotional "Argggghhhhhh!". No kidding - the sound that emitted from deep within my soul sounded just like it's spelled - "Argggghhhhhh!". In my dismay, I knew that I had been especially blessed. The edge of the front held steady just above my head until about 1:30 p.m. - keeping me in total sunshine just long enough to activate that beautiful Swallowtail. After she was gone, the clouds moved in. The wind picked up and the temperature dropped. Nevertheless, I continued to see all three Checkerspots clinging to nectar sources well into the afternoon. From here I headed into Joshua Tree National Park, where I would set up camp for the night. Here's the list: Papilio indra fordi (Ford's Swallowtail) Pontia beckerii (Becker's White) Pontia sisymbrii (Spring White) Pontia protodice (Checkered White) Nathalis iole (Dainty Sulphur) Leptotes marina (Marine Blue) Glaucopsyche lygdamus (Silvery Blue) Apodemia mormo (Mormon Metalmark) Chlosyne acastus neumoegeni (Neumoegen's Checkerspot) Chlosyne californica (California Patch) Euphydryas chalcedona corralensis (Rock Corral Checkerspot) Mark Walker ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gganweiler at sprint.ca Thu Apr 26 22:52:57 2001 From: gganweiler at sprint.ca (Gary Anweiler Edmonton Alberta Canada) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:52:57 -0600 Subject: Fwd: RE: multicaudata vs multicaudatus References: <1010426083150.ZM3558@Gochfeld>, <4.3.2.7.2.20010426102001.00ac5760@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Ok, I'm sold. I vote for the "Many-tailed Wing-that-glows-with-passion, and I intend to use this from now on. I do not think this one can be improved upon. Thanks Chris Gary Anweiler, Edmonton, Alberta Chris J. Durden wrote in message news:4.3.2.7.2.20010426102001.00ac5760 at pop3.norton.antivirus... > Michael, > If you really want to use a common name for *Pterourus multicadata* the > oldest is Xochiquetzalpapalotl, which as one of the earthly manifestations > of a deity, should not be taken lightly. This butterfly was known to the > inhabitants of Teotihuacan in Mexico, who depicted both adult and pupa in > painted clay effigies. The species ranges from Alberta to Guatemala and > from Central Texas to California with several poorly known subspecies. The > individuals with longest forewing that I have found so far are from Travis > Co. TX. These are the largest butterflies found north of the Mexico where > they are exceeded only by *Caligo* species. > Xochiquetzalpapalotl = flower-feathered-serpent-butterfly (from Nahuatl) > Pterourus multicadata = wing-that-glows-with-passion, the many-tailed > (from Latin) > ...................Chris Durden > > At 08:31 AM 4/26/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >If you don't like common names go to 2. > > > >1. The example below shows why the common names of species should be > >treated as proper nouns and capitalized since (style manuals > >notwithstanding) they refer to unique entities. > > > >Use in a sentence: There flies a multi-tailed butterfly". > > > >Does that refer to one of many butterflies which happen to have more > >than one tail, or to a member of a single species (Papilio > >multicaudatus, the Multi-tailed Butterfly). > > > > > > > > At last some concrete information that leaves us with two > >possibilities - > > >*Papilio multicaudata* - "butterfly, the multi-tailed" > > >*Papilio multicaudatus* - "the multi-tailed butterfly" > > > >CONCLUSIONS: Species as unique entities are proper nouns and ought to be > >capitlized to avoid confusion. Try for example, the little metalmark. > > > >If I keep this up I will make a case for not using common names. > > > >2. Bye > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca Fri Apr 27 09:58:40 2001 From: Norbert.Kondla at gems3.gov.bc.ca (Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 06:58:40 -0700 Subject: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question Message-ID: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF5A@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Given the size of my dainty little digits, I am able to do the thorax pinching and consequent wing opening with my thumb and forfinger on things the size of eryphon and even blues, altho I have not yet had the courage to try this on really teeny things like Brephidium :-) -----Original Message----- From: Stanley A. Gorodenski [mailto:stanlep at extremezone.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:49 PM To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu Subject: Re: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question This may not be proper, but when wings are difficult to open, I pinch the thorax with curved butterfly forceps. As I said, it may not be proper, and it may do damage I am unaware of, but it works for me. Stan Terry Morse wrote: > > I am a beginner at pinning and spreading > butterflies. I am trying to pin/spread a > moderately small lep, a Western Pine Elfin > (Callophrys eryphon). The insect died with its > wings in full upright position to the extent that > I can't see the thorax well enough to properly > insert the pin. I've had it in a relaxing chamber > for 24 hours ( is that sufficient? I had left the > specimen in the killing jar for the preceding 24 > hours), but am unable to get the wings to stay > spread enough on their own for me to place the > pin. It's a bit of a catch-22: To spread the > specimen, I need to pin it; but to pin it, I need > to spread the specimen. > > Can anyone suggest how I can get the wings spread > enough (I only have two hands) that I can see to > place the pin? I've tried placing the specimen on > a slightly rough surface and using butterfly > forceps to spread the wings with one hand while I > pin it with the other hand, but the specimen keeps > sliding forward. I've tried putting a pin in > front of the specimen as a stop, but it just > slides past the stop. > > My other elfin was kind enough to die with its > wings down, so it was easy to pin that one. > > Thanks, > Terry ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From 1_iron at msn.com Fri Apr 27 10:44:44 2001 From: 1_iron at msn.com (1_iron) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:44:44 -0400 Subject: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF5A@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: <000601c0cf28$9c26bdc0$698a0a3f@1swch01> Hey. Don't you guys lose a lot of legs doing this? Jim Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" To: ; Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question > Given the size of my dainty little digits, I am able to do the thorax > pinching and consequent wing opening with my thumb and forfinger on things > the size of eryphon and even blues, altho I have not yet had the courage to > try this on really teeny things like Brephidium :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stanley A. Gorodenski [mailto:stanlep at extremezone.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:49 PM > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > Subject: Re: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question > > > This may not be proper, but when wings are difficult to open, I pinch > the thorax with curved butterfly forceps. As I said, it may not be > proper, and it may do damage I am unaware of, but it works for me. > Stan > > Terry Morse wrote: > > > > I am a beginner at pinning and spreading > > butterflies. I am trying to pin/spread a > > moderately small lep, a Western Pine Elfin > > (Callophrys eryphon). The insect died with its > > wings in full upright position to the extent that > > I can't see the thorax well enough to properly > > insert the pin. I've had it in a relaxing chamber > > for 24 hours ( is that sufficient? I had left the > > specimen in the killing jar for the preceding 24 > > hours), but am unable to get the wings to stay > > spread enough on their own for me to place the > > pin. It's a bit of a catch-22: To spread the > > specimen, I need to pin it; but to pin it, I need > > to spread the specimen. > > > > Can anyone suggest how I can get the wings spread > > enough (I only have two hands) that I can see to > > place the pin? I've tried placing the specimen on > > a slightly rough surface and using butterfly > > forceps to spread the wings with one hand while I > > pin it with the other hand, but the specimen keeps > > sliding forward. I've tried putting a pin in > > front of the specimen as a stop, but it just > > slides past the stop. > > > > My other elfin was kind enough to die with its > > wings down, so it was easy to pin that one. > > > > Thanks, > > Terry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From cguppy at quesnelbc.com Fri Apr 27 10:59:20 2001 From: cguppy at quesnelbc.com (Cris Guppy or Aud Fischer) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:59:20 -0700 Subject: Unsubcribe Message-ID: <00ae01c0cf2b$dea56ae0$4ddcc2cf@nysven> Unsubscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010427/18a58cad/attachment.html From TiserG at mail01.dnr.state.wi.us Fri Apr 27 11:32:22 2001 From: TiserG at mail01.dnr.state.wi.us (Tiser, Gene M) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:32:22 -0500 Subject: FW: [Aliens-L] Australian Insects Common Names (AICN) Message-ID: Below is a forward (from an alien invasive plant list serve) for an interesting Australian insect web site. I am not sure if this has been posted here before - if so, my apologies for the redundancy. While it is titled Common Names, they do include scientific names as well! Enjoy! Gene Tiser Education Coordinator NE Region Hdqtrs PO Box 10448 1125 N. Military Ave. Green Bay, WI 54307-0448 phone: (920) 492-5836 fax: (920) 492-5913 tiserg at dnr.state.wi.us > ---------- > From: > Robert.J.Duthie at affa.gov.au[SMTP:Robert.J.Duthie at affa.gov.au] > Reply To: aliens-l at indaba.iucn.org > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:43 PM > To: ocppo-plant_health at affa.gov.au; Aliens-L at indaba.iucn.org > Subject: [Aliens-L] Australian Insects Common Names (AICN) > > Dear all > Australian Insects Common Names (AICN) > The widely used "CSIRO Handbook of Australian Insect Names", last revised > in > 1993 has been updated and expanded to reflect taxonomic changes, new names > and newly recorded species. The updating and transfer of the Handbook to > the > web has been joint effort of CSIRO Entomology and AFFA's Office of the > Chief > Plant Protection Officer. The new web version of the Handbook was launched > in Canberra on 23rd April 2001 by Dr Peter Raven, Director of the Missouri > Botanical Gardens. The web site can be found at > http://www.ento.csiro.au/aicn > > Regards > > Rob Duthie > Office of the Chief Plant Protection Officer > Agriculture Fisheries Forestry - Australia > ph 02 6271 6471 > fax 02 6272 5835 > e-mail robert.j.duthie at affa.gov.au > > > > ================================================ > > If you wish to send a reply to this message, to be read by all members of > the list, you may just hit the Reply button in your e-mail program (This > does NOT WORK when reading a Digest!). ATTENTION Please: if the message to > which you are replying is long, please delete as much of it from your > reply as possible to reduce message lengths for other List subscribers. > Thank You. > > To contact the list owners: aliens-l-owner at indaba.iucn.org > To leave this list, send a blank message to: > aliens-l-leave at indaba.iucn.org > > This message was sent to you at: TiserG at mail01.dnr.state.wi.us > > For hints about discussion list etiquette: > http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=05386 > > The services and facilities to support this list are provided by The > Information Management Group, IUCN, Gland, Switzerland. > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From skfork at pacbell.net Fri Apr 27 12:03:42 2001 From: skfork at pacbell.net (Susanne Fork) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:03:42 -0700 Subject: unsubscribe Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20010427090227.009fdb90@postoffice.pacbell.net> unsubscribe ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From TEichlin at cdfa.ca.gov Fri Apr 27 13:02:00 2001 From: TEichlin at cdfa.ca.gov (Thomas Eichlin) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:02:00 -0700 Subject: collecting in Greece Message-ID: Dear Colleagues: A friend is travelling in Greece near the end of May on vacation. He would like to do a little insect collecting, if possible. Could anyone please advise as to if and where it is permissible to collect and what permits and precautions he should take into account. TIA. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From fnjjk1 at aurora.uaf.edu Fri Apr 27 14:17:50 2001 From: fnjjk1 at aurora.uaf.edu (James J Kruse) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:17:50 -0800 (AKDT) Subject: unsubscribing- SAVE THIS Message-ID: This appears necessary. You cannot subscribe and unsubscribe to a list by sending emails to the list. Everyone on the list gets your email, and you don't get unsubscribed. Your request must go to the listprocessor. Please follow directions below, and everyone else should please save this for the future. I will now shamelessly advertise our new entomology website. James J. Kruse, Ph.D. University of Alaska Museum http://www.uaf.edu/museum/ento/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:08:24 EST From: Yale University Information Technology Services ListProcessor Note well - this is a server which only recognizes a limited set of commands. Adding a subject, conversational language, or any extra words will cause the server to reject your request. To signoff from the list, email to listproc at lists.yale.edu with the following request: signoff LEPS-L or unsubscribe LEPS-L If that does not work for any reason, contact the owners at LEPS-L-request (LEPS-L-request at lists.yale.edu) ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us Fri Apr 27 17:04:02 2001 From: Mike.Quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us (Mike Quinn) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:04:02 -0500 Subject: Monarch Population Negatively Correlated with GE Acreage Message-ID: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD1999C@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> The data are starting to back up the predicted genetically engineering effects on the Monarch... Monarch overwintering population decreased significantly over nearly the same short period that genetically engineered crops increased significantly. Total Monarch Coverage in the five main overwintering sanctuaries decreased from 17.87 to 3.18 hectares between December 1996 and December 1997. Monarch over-wintering populations have remained at near historic low levels ever since. U. S. farmers harvested some 30 million acres of genetically engineered crops in 1997, up from 5 million acres in 1996 (Re 1997). Re, D. B. (1997, September). Biotechnology--What's here and what's coming. In R. H. Cross (Director), Bridging the Gap: Solving Practical Problems with Technological Solutions. Research and Technology Transfer Symposium conducted by the Institute of Food Science and Engineering, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX. ---The following is from Journey North--- ************************************************************ Monarch Population This Year at Lowest Level Recorded ************************************************************ Some very concerning population estimates were recently released from the Mexican over-wintering sites. This winter's population was the lowest since records have been kept. Here are the annual measurements, courtesy of Sr. Roberto Solis the director of the Reserva Especial de la Biosphera Mariposa Monarca (REBMM). The numbers show the surface area each colony covered, in hectares: Monarch Coverage in Hectares Year of Winter Measurement Sanctuary 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 Sierra Chincua 3.48 4.16 7.09 0.73 1.96 0.92 0.77 El Rosario 3.58 4.35 7.61 2.12 2.00 3.78 1.27 *Other 3 Sanctuaries 0.75 4.00 3.17 0.33 1.25 1.27 0.25 TOTAL 7.81 12.51 17.87 3.18 5.21 5.97 2.29 This graph shows the decline: For more information see: http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/monarch/PopulationMexico.html Elizabeth Howard Journey North http://www.learner.org --------------------------------------------- Related Essay in the current issue of Orion Magazine: Canary in the Cornfield by Lincoln p. Brower At stake in the debate over genetically modified Bt corn is not just the monarch butterfly, but the integrity of the scientific process. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Quinn Invertebrate Biologist Wildlife Diversity Branch Texas Parks & Wildlife Austin, TX Ph: 512/912-7059 mike.quinn at tpwd.state.tx.us ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Fri Apr 27 20:13:35 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:13:35 -0400 Subject: DMXA - Providence Mountains (4/19/01) Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D279C55@hqmail.gensym.com> Day Two: After a refreshing evening in Joshua Tree NP (complete with spectacular sunset), I awoke to complete cloud cover. The edge of the front on this day appeared to be somewhere near the Nevada state line. I packed up the car and headed for Amboy, with hopes of catching some blue sky for some lepping along the way to Las Vegas. Amboy is home to several Sodium Chloride processing sites. Here they excavate (if that's what you call it) the salt directly from the earth through evaporation. This is an amazing thing to behold. The salt crystallizes and appears like freshly fallen snow. White, white, white. The effect is even more pronounced where the salt backs up to the black lava flows extending south beyond Amboy Crater. Black against White. Way cool. Just north of Interstate 40 the Mojave National Preserve shoots up in elevation. Here the Granite Mountains and Providence Mountains transform the landscape from barren wasteland to pine and juniper woodland. The Ford Focus wagon I rented successfully morphed into a 4WD, and with it I scrambled to the northern-most stretches. The habitat is incredible here, so I decided to put on my hiking boots. For four hours in direct sunlight, I made my way to higher altitudes - enjoying spectacular views, but seeing very few leps. The most common butterfly up here was the Sleepy Duskywing (Erynnis brizo). Males could be found hilltopping, while females could be found perching under Quercus in canyon bottoms. There were also Spring Whites (Pontia sisymbrii) and Desert Marbles (Euchloe lotta) hilltopping. A Desert Swallowtail (Papilio polyxenes coloro) could also be found on virtually every hilltop. Particularly large spotted Silvery Blues (Glaucopsyche lygdamus) were flying in the heavily flowered pastureland below the peaks. By 1:00 p.m. I lost all sunshine. From here I drove to Nevada, and checked a few spots in the Spring Mountains. Strong gusty winds and gray sky made this mostly non-productive. Amazingly, Neumoegen's Checkerspots (Chlosyne acastus neumoegeni) could be found nectaring and hanging on for dear life to the single yellow composites that could be found shooting up throughout the desert. Of course, I completely forgot to mention the Painted Ladies. They were everywhere, accompanying me on every day of our excursion. Dave was due first thing on Friday morning, but the weather report was looking very bad indeed... Mark Walker ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From Sumairp at dex.pathlink.com Fri Apr 27 19:58:11 2001 From: Sumairp at dex.pathlink.com (Sumairp at dex.pathlink.com) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 23:58:11 GMT Subject: unsubscribing- SAVE THIS References: Message-ID: <3aea0622.7564852@news.eaa.com.au> On 27 Apr 2001 11:26:16 -0700, fnjjk1 at aurora.uaf.edu , while lying in the gutter, looking at the stars (James J Kruse) wrote: >I will now shamelessly advertise our new entomology website. > >James J. Kruse, Ph.D. >University of Alaska Museum >http://www.uaf.edu/museum/ento/ I wish a few more would be as shameless. Thank you. cheers, Chris Hocking May all your Xochiquetzalpapalotl emerge safely! ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From monarch at saber.net Fri Apr 27 21:30:17 2001 From: monarch at saber.net (Paul Cherubini) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:30:17 -0700 Subject: Monarch Population Negatively Correlated with GE Acreage References: <22D91ED6CCEED311BED1009027A8F72CD1999C@tpwd-mx1.tpwd.state.tx.us> Message-ID: <3AEA1D29.369C@saber.net> Mike Quinn wrote: > ---The following is from Journey North--- > Some very concerning population estimates were recently > released from the Mexican over-wintering sites. This winter's > population was the lowest since records have been kept. Mike, this isn't the first time the Journey North website has been "very concerned" about low overwintering populations and not the first time it has stated or implied that peak years are "normal years". For example, in the Spring 1995 Journey North archives http://www.learner.org/jnorth/www/jn95/migrations/students/881597950.html the following statement and table was presented: "For the past few years, however, people have become very concerned about the west coast monarchs. The population has fallen drastically since 1991. This year there are 90-100% fewer at each site! The chart below compares the normal population size to the size this year at the 3 largest sanctuaries:" Normal Size Size This Year (winter of 1994-95) Pismo State Beach , CA 180,000 15,000 Ellwood Sites 100,000 5,000 Natural Bridges State Beach 170,000 4,000 What's wrong with this? Well the 15 year average for Natural Bridges and Ellwood is actually around 60,000 and 5 year average for Pismo Beach around 75,000. The170,000 figure was recorded only in one peak year (back in 1982) and the 180,000 figure in one peak year (1991). Thus the public is left with a highly distorted and worrisome picture of the situation. One year later, in the spring of 1996, Journey North had the opportunity to tell the public that the Pismo Beach colony was back above normal (140,000) and that Ellwood and Natural Bridges were back to long term normals, but did not to report this good news. Likewise, in the spring of 1998 Journey North had the opportunity to tell the public that California populations were back to the peak levels recorded in 1982 and 1990, but failed to mention this good news. Journey North data is misleading and worrying the public again this year by comparing estimates of the monarch populations measured in Mexico in recent years with only the peak population years measured in the mid-1990's. A much less misleading and worrisome picture of the situation would emerge if Journey North would post ALL the available census data for Mexico that goes back about 20 years. Paul Cherubini, Placerville, Calif. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From stanlep at extremezone.com Fri Apr 27 22:11:10 2001 From: stanlep at extremezone.com (Stanley A. Gorodenski) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:11:10 -0700 Subject: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF5A@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> <000601c0cf28$9c26bdc0$698a0a3f@1swch01> Message-ID: <3AEA26BE.1280DD99@extremezone.com> I lose a few legs, but not enough to be a problem for me, and I am sensitive to losing legs. Stan 1_iron wrote: > > Hey. Don't you guys lose a lot of legs doing this? > Jim Taylor > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" > To: ; > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 9:58 AM > Subject: RE: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question > > > Given the size of my dainty little digits, I am able to do the thorax > > pinching and consequent wing opening with my thumb and forfinger on things > > the size of eryphon and even blues, altho I have not yet had the courage > to > > try this on really teeny things like Brephidium :-) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stanley A. Gorodenski [mailto:stanlep at extremezone.com] > > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:49 PM > > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu > > Subject: Re: Smallish specimen pinning/spreading question > > > > > > This may not be proper, but when wings are difficult to open, I pinch > > the thorax with curved butterfly forceps. As I said, it may not be > > proper, and it may do damage I am unaware of, but it works for me. > > Stan > > > > Terry Morse wrote: > > > > > > I am a beginner at pinning and spreading > > > butterflies. I am trying to pin/spread a > > > moderately small lep, a Western Pine Elfin > > > (Callophrys eryphon). The insect died with its > > > wings in full upright position to the extent that > > > I can't see the thorax well enough to properly > > > insert the pin. I've had it in a relaxing chamber > > > for 24 hours ( is that sufficient? I had left the > > > specimen in the killing jar for the preceding 24 > > > hours), but am unable to get the wings to stay > > > spread enough on their own for me to place the > > > pin. It's a bit of a catch-22: To spread the > > > specimen, I need to pin it; but to pin it, I need > > > to spread the specimen. > > > > > > Can anyone suggest how I can get the wings spread > > > enough (I only have two hands) that I can see to > > > place the pin? I've tried placing the specimen on > > > a slightly rough surface and using butterfly > > > forceps to spread the wings with one hand while I > > > pin it with the other hand, but the specimen keeps > > > sliding forward. I've tried putting a pin in > > > front of the specimen as a stop, but it just > > > slides past the stop. > > > > > > My other elfin was kind enough to die with its > > > wings down, so it was easy to pin that one. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Terry > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Sat Apr 28 01:10:20 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 01:10:20 -0400 Subject: DMXA - Fleeing to Needles (4/20/01) Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D279C57@hqmail.gensym.com> Day Three: On Friday morning Dave arrived in Las Vegas sorry that he didn't bring warmer clothes. The wind was blowing, the sky was gray, and the temperature was in the 50's. Not exactly excellent weather for butterflying. The forecast was worse. Nothing but rain for Saturday all the way from Washington to Baja California. I told him about my experience with the Indra Swallowtail. That didn't make him feel any better. As soon as we packed his gear (including a 150 watt mercury vapor bulb with ballast), we headed towards the Colorado River. The sky would be no better, but the temps were heading for the upper 70's there. We crossed the river below Lake Mojave, and actually saw a little sunshine. In Arizona, we stopped to see if anything was flying - or crawling. The first thing we noticed were the thousands of White Lined Sphinx (Hyles lineata) larvae all over the desert. Surprisingly, we also found Queens (Danaus gilippus), Checkered Whites (Pontia protodice), Dainty Sulphurs (Nathalis iole), and Mormon Metalmarks (Apodemia mormo) accompanying the ten zillion Painted Ladies (Vanessa everywhere). Nastra julia and Hylephila phyleus were also flying farther down the river. Dave also had his first experience with one of our western vipers - fully equipped with rattle. He had wondered if we might see one, but I don't think either of us thought we'd encounter one on our first day out. Less than satisfied with our daylight activities, we holed up in Needles until sunset. The sky actually cleared up and we drove on up to higher ground where we set up a fantastic light rig. We found the eastern Colorado desert - like the rest of the desert for that matter - to be surprisingly green and lush. We hoped this would produce some interesting nighttime visitors, particularly from the genus Schinia. We were not disappointed. Besides the 300 Hyles lineata adults that covered our sheets, faces, and jackets (yes, we were reduced to wearing jackets in the low desert), we saw at least 3 different Shinia's - maybe as many as 8. We were totally clueless as to their identities. It didn't matter. There's nothing quite like sitting around a lighted sheet in the farthest reaches of remote desert. The air was crisp and sweet from all of the flowering bushes, and the only sound to be heard was the quiet fluttering of 300 drunken White Lined Sphinx (and the humming of the 2300 watt generator, along with the CD player cranked to 13). We daydreamed (nightdreamed?) of the days to come, and tried not to think too hard about the impending forecast. Mark Walker. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sun Apr 29 00:12:52 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 00:12:52 -0400 Subject: B. i. insularus Message-ID: <006801c0d062$a99bb420$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> I received an email today from Bret Boyd of North Carolina informing me that on April 14 this year he, and several others, observed 40 - 50 Island Pygmy Blues (Brephidium isophthalma insularus) on Warsaw Island near Beaufort, North Carolina. This confirms that this subspecies is undoubtedly resident along the east coast as far north as southern North Carolina. It may extend all the way to Virgina with the same range as its larval host - Salicornia species (glasswort), I have not observed oviposition. But I have twice observed females in oviposition mode about clumps of S. europaea in South Carolina. Harry Pavulaan and I are very interested in any early spring records from NC to VA (I don't think this has ever been recorded from Virginia). According to the plant books the host occurs there. Those collecting/watching this taxon should always inspect the antennae. The clubs of insularus are black or rarely only slightly tipped in red, in our experience. When pseudofea (the Eastern Pygmy Blue) was described one of its chief characters, in the original description, was strongly orange tipped antennae. The clubs of topotypes of pseudofea we have examined are shorter more spoon shaped and strongly orange tipped. Those of insularus are long and black. We have noted specimens from the FL keys that also have all black antennal clubs - all this solicits study as to whether two sibling species exist in FL. Pseudofea also shows some exile (Western Pygmy Blue) characters and is likely conspecific with it. All of the pictures in the literature from caostal GA north are insularus and not pseudofea. If anyone wants to do a DNA study of these, please email Harry or I and let us know. (Harry's e-mail Address is: Hpavulaan at aol.com ) Ron ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Sun Apr 29 01:38:23 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 01:38:23 -0400 Subject: VA and MD Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D279C5C@hqmail.gensym.com> I'm on a short trip to Chantilly, VA, but was able to get out late on Friday and early Saturday. The weather on Friday was approaching 80 degrees, while the temps this morning barely reached 70 F. Nevertheless it seems that the cold spell that rolled through here last week is over. I was pleased to see so many leps on the wing. I visited Bulls Run Regional Park in Northern Virginia after 3:00 p.m. on Friday. The Zebra Swallowtails (Eurytides marcellus) were quite common, along with the largest number of Polygonia comma (Eastern Comma) I've ever seen flying in one place. Also common were Cabbage White's (Pieris rapae) and Juvenal's Duskywing (Erynnis juvenalis). The highlights of the afternoon were the Falcate Orangetips (Anthocharis midea), although they were not common and were looking rather tired. Butterflies were still on the wing when I left at 5:30 p.m. On Saturday, I drove into Maryland (on my way to Baltimore), and stopped for some lepping at Patuxent River State Park in Montgomery Co. Although I arrived early, things didn't start happening until after 12:00. Except for the Duskywings, there were far fewer leps on the wing today. I was pleased to see a rather large diversity, however. My highlights today were a White M Hairstreak (Parrhasius m-album), a very large Eastern Pine Elfin (Callophrys niphon), and a slightly worn Erynnis brizo (Sleepy Duskywing), which was hiding among hundreds of Juvenal's. The hiking was quite good in the park, and it was good to get a little eastern lepping in for a change. My list from Bulls Run, 4/27: Papilio glaucus (Tiger Swallowtail) Eurytides marcellus (Zebra Swallowtail) Pieris rapae (Cabbage White) Anthocharis midea (Falcate Orangetip) Colias philodice (Clouded Sulphur) Colias eurytheme (Orange Sulphur) Everes comyntas (Eastern Tailed Blue) Phyciodes tharos (Pearl Crescentspot) Polygonia interrogationis (Question Mark) Polygonia comma (Eastern Comma) Nymphalis antiopa (Mourning Cloak) Vanessa virginiensis (American Painted Lady) Vanessa atalanta (Red Admiral) Erynnis juvenalis (Juvenal's Duskywing) -------------------------------- My list from Patuxent River, 4/28: Papilio glaucus (Tiger Swallowtail) Eurytides marcellus (Zebra Swallowtail) Pieris rapae (Cabbage White) Colias philodice (Clouded Sulphur) Colias eurytheme (Orange Sulphur) Callophrys augustinus (Brown Elfin) Callophrys niphon (Eastern Pine Elfin) Parrhasius m-album (White M Hairstreak) Everes comyntas (Eastern Tailed Blue) Celastrina ladon (Spring Azure) Phyciodes tharos (Pearl Crescentspot) Polygonia comma (Eastern Comma) Nymphalis antiopa (Mourning Cloak) Vanessa atalanta (Red Admiral) Erynnis juvenalis (Juvenal's Duskywing) Erynnis brizo (Sleepy Duskywing) Mark Walker back in Oceanside ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Sun Apr 29 01:55:48 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 01:55:48 -0400 Subject: DMXA - Frigid Air (4/21/01) Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D279C5D@hqmail.gensym.com> When Dave and I woke on Saturday morning, 4/21/01, the rain was already coming down. We looked to the west, and decided it was worth trying to drive past the storm. We traveled on old route 66, a scenic highway still, and Dave thoroughly enjoyed the bizarre landscape. By the time we got to Morongo, the wind was howling and the temps were well below 60 degrees. The sun was actually trying to peek it's way through the clouds, and so I decided to take Dave to Rock Corral at the edge of the San Bernardino Mountains. I figured I'd at least show him what great butterfly habitat looks like - even if there were no bugs on the wing. Before heading into the canyon, it was obvious that we were going to have to wear multiple layers. The wind was blowing cold, and you could just make out the snow falling in the mountains just above us (the snow level was below 4000 ft.). We were shocked, if not surprised, to see many Vanessa cardui enduring the gusty conditions. These bugs are insane - too busy trying to get to nowhere to know better than to come in out of the rain. After spending an hour or so here, Dave and I were astounded to find both Chlosyne californica and Chlosyne acastus neumoegeni also nectaring in the miserable conditions. Dave was so stoked that he had me take a picture of him swinging his net with a hooded jacket on. We were both amazed that there could be lepping done on such a frigid day. We drove on down to Palm Springs to mostly sunny skies. In Whitewater canyon the temps were in the 60's - much warmer than the high desert. Nevertheless, we saw not a single butterfly on the wing there. The snow that was accumulating on San Jacinto peak was worth watching, however. We were hoping for a change in the weather, and the forecast was starting to shape up. Perhaps on Sunday we would enjoy clear skies. Unfortunately, the temperatures were not predicted to be above 70 degrees for several days. Mark Walker. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From coetzer.fam at thales.co.za Sun Apr 29 03:19:23 2001 From: coetzer.fam at thales.co.za (Andre Coetzer) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:19:23 +0200 Subject: Butterfly Exchange!! Message-ID: <3AEBC07B.13682135@thales.co.za> Hi, I am Andre Coetzer and I live in South Africa. I collect butterflies from Africa and would like to know whether there is someone that will exchange butterflies with me. I am looking for Euphaedras, Euriphenes and Bebearias but I will accept most other butterflies(only from Africa). I have got many South African butterflies to offer including Papilios, Nymphalids, Pierids, Charaxinae and Lyceanids. Please e-mail me back at coetzer.fam at thales.co.za Regards Andre Coetzer ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gatrelle at tils-ttr.org Sun Apr 29 13:47:47 2001 From: gatrelle at tils-ttr.org (Ron Gatrelle) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:47:47 -0400 Subject: Pygmy Blue correction Message-ID: <009d01c0d0d4$8144fc80$9b0f1218@gscrk1.sc.home.com> All My bad. Bret lives in NC. So when he mentioned his Beaufort Pigmy Blue location I assumed it was for Beaufort NC. It was for Beaufort SC, the B. i. insularus type locality. So we still need an early spring record for NC. Does anyone have one? Everything else in my former post remains the same. This is our smallest butterfly with a very micro habitat on the eastern US coast. One has to go looking for this one - no fly byes here. They would be out right now in NC and southeast VA if resident there. Go look and good luck. Ron A common names PS. Evidently the common name for this group can be spelled pygmy or pigmy - as it is both ways in different field guides and lit. The common name was spelled Island Pigmy Blue in the OD. Also, since Beaufort NC and SC have the same "common" name perhaps to alleviate the confusion and bring nomenclatural stability we should call them by their scientific names. Beaufortus carolinicum septentrionalis (NC) and Beaufortus carolinicum meridianalis (SC). Now, do we go with the proper latinization or original spelling? ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From billcor at mail.mcn.org Sun Apr 29 21:34:07 2001 From: billcor at mail.mcn.org (Bill Cornelius) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:34:07 -0700 Subject: Parisitic wasp ID Message-ID: <3AECC10F.5B86F105@mail.mcn.org> Hi: Can anyone identify ths wasp for me? It hatched out of a B.philenor pupa from Plumas county California, usa. Thanks Bill PS I'm also looking for a non -copyrighted picture of a tachnid fly. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Parisitic wasp ??? Type: image/pict Size: 57530 bytes Desc: Unknown Document Url : http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010429/6caa74cb/attachment.pic From MWalker at gensym.com Mon Apr 30 03:06:57 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 03:06:57 -0400 Subject: DMXA - Borrego Bonanza (4/22/01) Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D279C5F@hqmail.gensym.com> Day Five: After a little rest in Oceanside, Dave and I were up early to search for warmth. The storm had completely passed through by Sunday, but the low pressure was keeping the temps down in the 60's. When the weather doesn't cooperate, you have to be very flexible and spontaneous with your planning. We tossed a three sided coin and chose the western Colorado desert for our next exploitation - er, exploration. It had been over a week since I had been down to Anza Borrego (more like two), and there had been two cold spells con rain since then. Who knew? Perhaps the desert was all done for the spring? Perhaps all we'd find would be Painted Ladies? And then there's the wind. So often when it's nice and warm everywhere else, the lower desert blows. Literally. Well - I'm keeping you in suspense long enough. We drove over the top of the Laguna Mountains (just to get a look), and we were surprised to find the early morning temps there to be well into the 60's. Perhaps this was a good omen. We also found lots of snow - which would soon be melting away. Dave had not seen snow in many years. He's a Floridian, and I tease him about being a flatlander. I guess he was born in the blizzard of '78 (youngster - geez I was already out of High School), but it had been almost as long since he had seen snow. Needless to say, that was a bit of a highlight in and of itself. Wow, what a difference a few weeks can make. There was so much nectar in the Scissors Crossings area - I have never seen so many flowers. Once again, the entire desert floor was a carpet of green and white and pink and blue and purple and red and yellow (did I forget any colors?). Absolutely spectacular. And only a few of them were cactus - everything else was wildflower, and destined to be gone in a matter of days. In one location there were literally thousands of white flowers everywhere. And no surprise that nearly every one of them hosted a nectaring Painted Lady. These things are worse than rabbits, if you know what I mean... Up at higher altitude we found lots of cool bugs flying. Plenty of Checkerspots everywhere. Still no end to the nectar sources. I was very pleased that Dave got at least one good day in. By 2:00 p.m., we were exhausted, tired, and sweating profusely! After freezing our buns off in the Mojave, this was a welcome discomfort. Our list: Papilio polyxenes coloro (Desert Swallowtail) Pontia sisymbrii (Spring White) Pontia protodice (Checkered White) Euchloe lotta (Desert Marble) Anthocharis sara (Sara Orangetip) one large yellow Pierid - Zerene cesonia? eurydice? Brephidium exile (Western Pygmy Blue) Leptotes marina (Marine Blue) Hemiargus ceraunus (Ceraunus Blue) Plebejus acmon (Acmon Blue) Calephelis wrighti (Wright's Metalmark) Vanessa cardui (Painted Lady) Chlosyne acastus neumoegeni (Neumoegen's Checkerspot) Chlosyne californica (California Patch) Euphydryas chalcedona hennei (Henne's Checkerspot) Copaeodes aurantiacia (Orange Skipperling) Mark Walker ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From oehlkew at islandtelecom.com Mon Apr 30 06:47:44 2001 From: oehlkew at islandtelecom.com (William Oehlke) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:47:44 -0300 Subject: worldwide saturniidae site Message-ID: <001a01c0d162$fd25ffa0$04f3b18e@oehlke> Please visit http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/indexos.htm for access to the World's Largest Saturniidae Site Bill Oehlke Box 476, Montague, P.E.I., Canada C0A 1R0 http://www3.islandtelecom.com/~oehlkew oehlkew at islandtelecom.com Phone: 902-838-3455 fax: 902-838-0866 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/private/leps-l/attachments/20010430/98b1dd6f/attachment.html From harry.legrand at ncmail.net Mon Apr 30 08:17:35 2001 From: harry.legrand at ncmail.net (Harry Legrand) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:17:35 -0400 Subject: No Pygmy-Blue Records for NC Message-ID: <3AED57DF.C51747C1@ncmail.net> I saw the note about E. Pygmy-Blues in SC already this year. As far as I am aware, and I keep records of rare butterflies (and other animals) at the NC Natural Heritage Program, this species has never been found in North Carolina. I am aware of it occurring as far up the coast as the Baruch facility near Georgetown, SC. We certainly have the habitat and the hostplants (Salicornia spp.), and it has been looked for here by me and others. There is some good-looking habitat near Holden Beach in Brunswick County that looks almost identical to where I've seen in in Charleston and Beaufort counties, SC. I've seen it also in the FL keys. We'll keep looking in NC. Maybe the Myrtle Beach barrier is a reality (there are no coastal marshes, etc., for a good ways in the Myrtle Beach area, as that is part of the mainland). -- Harry LeGrand NC Natural Heritage Program 1615 MSC Raleigh, NC 27699-1615 (919) 715-8687 (work) FAX: 919-715-3085 e-mail: harry.legrand at ncmail.net ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From bmw60 at aol.com Mon Apr 30 09:40:39 2001 From: bmw60 at aol.com (BMW60) Date: 30 Apr 2001 13:40:39 GMT Subject: Arizona mothing Message-ID: <20010430094039.24458.00000289@ng-mg1.aol.com> Yea, its only April so you sure cant expect much. Thanks to Jim Tuttle, I had access to a female Hemileuca haulapai so I figured I had nothing to lose. Unfortunately I had to work this night, at least until 8pm so I gave the moth to my buddy Howard Byrne. He would go down to Box Canyon in the Santa Rita Mountains and get all set up and I would join him ASAP. We decided to set up two lights also. The temperature in Tucson was 80 degrees when I got off, so expectations were high. I hauled butt to get ther in time to see the show. We have found Haulapai to start flying about 8:40 pm so I had to boogie. (Its a 50 minute drive from Ryan Airfield) After too many broadslides to count I pulled up at 9:55. As I turned the corner arriving at the first light I was shocked. NOTHING!. What? It was 80 degrees and we even had a little rain a couple days ago! There might have been 3 micro-ids on the sheet. When I got down in the wash Howard informed me it was 52 degrees and dropping. The bitch struck again. (Thats our nickname for Box Canyon. She taunts you with the most spectacular night youve erer seen than skunks you three trips in a row.) One ragged Haulapai showed up at the light and none to the calling female. So, we figured to shut the lights off and hang around the female and see what happens. After packing up, we went down the hill to see what was happening. To our surprise, there was a male on the cage. In the next 30 minutes 9 more males showed up. Success! Not an overwhelming event like the caleta at Pena Blanca, but good enough. So, Box Canyon, the Bitch, taunted us once again. Oh yea, 2 Hemileuca tricolor also came to the light. This should hold us over until July. All the best, Bill in Tucson ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From aa6g at aa6g.org Mon Apr 30 16:46:49 2001 From: aa6g at aa6g.org (Chuck Vaughn) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:46:49 -0700 Subject: Painted Lady Migration In-Reply-To: <001a01c0d162$fd25ffa0$04f3b18e@oehlke> Message-ID: I haven't seen a word on here about this but there's a big Painted Lady (Vanessa cardui) migration underway here in California. My parents in Palm Desert said they've been inundated with them for 2 weeks. A friend who drives in from Placerville had them all over his truck today. I was just outside here in Mtn. View and I'm seeing one pass by at least every 30 seconds. Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From emengersen at admin.oldscollege.ab.ca Mon Apr 30 17:10:30 2001 From: emengersen at admin.oldscollege.ab.ca (Ernest Mengersen) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:10:30 -0600 Subject: Painted Lady Migration Message-ID: Thanks for the observation. We could use more postings like this of when and where these things are observed. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From MWalker at gensym.com Mon Apr 30 18:05:46 2001 From: MWalker at gensym.com (Mark Walker) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:05:46 -0400 Subject: DMXA - Spring Revived (4/23/01) Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D279C62@hqmail.gensym.com> Day Six: After having such a great day in the hills above Anza Borrego, we decided to head for the riparian habitats in the San Gabriel Mountains. The mountains had been exceptionally productive in the weeks preceding, with all the early spring flyers having a bumper year. Some of the late spring flyers - like Chlosyne gabbii - had also been emerging. With the recent cold spell and additional snowfall, it wasn't clear what we could expect. The daytime temperatures on Monday were headed for the upper 70s, so it was at least going to be nice and warm. We drove into Azusa Canyon around 10:30 a.m. - a little late, but driving from Oceanside through morning rush hour traffic was less than optimal. We stopped at Rincon, where Bill Gendron had been graciously keeping us up to date on airborne species. We were pleased to find Zerene eurydice (California Dogface) to be extremely common (this was one of Dave's must-see bugs). When you search for this bug in vain, it's a bit hard to get used to seeing it so common. The male is with out a doubt one of the most beautiful U.S. bugs to behold. It's one of those that you never get tired of looking at. While chasing a rather fresh Colias harfordii (Harford's Sulphur), I nearly stepped on another fat rattlesnake. That was two for Dave in just four days. He was cautiously pleased to have such good luck. While in Florida last February, Dave showed me a photograph of a 5-foot long Coral Snake that he snapped in the woods behind his work. I have never seen a live Coral Snake, but being the good Eagle Scout that I am, I've long known about and feared it. I told him he was much the bigger stud than I for dealing with poisonous reptiles such as these. At least our rattlesnakes give you good warning. He insisted that the Coral Snake can hardly get it's fangs around more than the webbing between your fingers. I told him I was content in not testing that theory (that's a beautiful snake, by the way). Another thing that was somewhat new to Dave was the phenomenon of uphillness. I thoroughly enjoyed watching Dave chase after a lep after lep on the wing in the uphill direction. After about 40 minutes, he was one tired puppy. He noted that it was much easier going in the downhill direction. Flatlander! The wet and cold winter weather that skunked us for Dave's first two days ended up being a serious blessing in disguise. Apparently the precipitation kicked started another emergence of the spring bugs in both the lower and higher elevations. I was totally surprised to find Philotes sonorensis (Sonoran Blue) still flying at 1500 ft. It was just as common at 4000 ft. Gray Marbles (Anthocharis lanceolata) were also flying at the higher elevations. Bramble Hairstreaks (Callophrys affinis) were abundant (usually tapering off by now), as were Anthocharis sara (Sara Orangetip). You like the way I keep reversing the common/latin names? Hey - there's no rhyme or reason here. I'm mad as hell, and there's nothing to be done about it. After traveling back home to pick up the kids, we all headed back up the canyon for some nighttime collecting. We found a nice quiet spot (with no submarine racers), and lit up the canyon. Our favorite Sphingid, Hyles lineata (White-lined Sphinx) returned, but not nearly in the numbers we experienced near Needles. After a few hours we began calling in a few other Sphingids - like Sphinx chersis, and another black and white beauty that I haven't yet id'd. We were also pleased to have a number of beautiful Hyalofora euryalus (Ceanothus Silk Moth) come to the sheet. We got a few more Schinia, and some other gems as well (which I again have no clue about). My daughter didn't like the White-lined Sphinx crawling all over her face. She watched from the back of the car. Christian, my son, was quite the little moth-er. That's moth-er, not "mutha". He really enjoyed the whole ritual. Perhaps even more than running around with a net like a headless chicken. That would be a fairly accurate description of his father. Here's our daytime butterfly list: Papilio rutulus (Western Tiger Swallowtail) Papilio eurymedon (Pale Swallowtail) Pontia protodice (Checkered White) Pieris rapae (Cabbage White) Anthocharis sara (Sara Orangetip) Anthocharis lanceolata (Gray Marble) Colias eurytheme (Orange Sulphur) Colias harfordii (Harford's Sulphur) Zerene eurydice (California Dogface) Callophrys affinis (Bramble Hairstreak) Callophrys augustinus (Brown Elfin) Leptotes marina (Marine Blue) Philotes sonorensis (Sonoran Blue) Plebejus acmon (Acmon Blue) Plebejus lupini (Lupine Blue) Glaucopsyche lygdamus (Silvery Blue) Chlosyne gabbii (Gabb's Checkerspot) Phyciodes mylitta (Mylitta Crescentspot) Vanessa cardui (Painted Lady) Vanessa atalanta (Red Admiral) Limenitis lorquini (Lorquin's Admiral) Coenonympha tullia californica (California Ringlet) Erynnis funeralis (Funereal Duskywing) Erynnis pacuvius (Pacuvius Duskywing) Erynnis brizo lacustra (Lacustra Duskywing) Heliopetes ericetorum (Large White Skipper) Mark Walker ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From patfoley at csus.edu Mon Apr 30 18:30:41 2001 From: patfoley at csus.edu (Patrick Foley) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:30:41 -0700 Subject: Painted Lady Migration References: Message-ID: <3AEDE791.561DD5B3@csus.edu> Vanessa cardui, Painted Lady, is on the move in Sacramento up disturbed grassland along the American River at CSUS flying North (downstream). I am guessing that they fly up valleys, across passes and down the other side. In Davis, they followed an old creek bed west and then across a cemetery's turf. Along Cache creek in northern Yolo County, California they headed upstream to the NW across a dense field of Lupinus microcarpus. A very rough guess would be one Lady crossed a 30 meter strip each minute in each of these locations, slightly more along the American River. I don't know how well they are hitting the highlands. Last weekend I spent 12 hours in the field in Vernal pools, Chapparal and mixed coniferous forest and saw none. But it was much cooler last weekend. Some of these Ladies are very beat up, some are rather unworn. They appear to be harder to catch when the temperature gets warmer. In my ecology class we are doing mark recapture on Battus philenor, Pipe Vine Swallowtail, and a few students marked Painted Ladies! If you see any Vanessa with the red numbers 21, 22, 51, 54, 76, 89, 92, 95, 201, 211, 213, 221, 221, 224, 225, 230 flying in Northern California, those may be mine. Patrick Foley patfoley at csus.edu Chuck Vaughn wrote: > I haven't seen a word on here about this but there's a big > Painted Lady (Vanessa cardui) migration underway here in > California. > > My parents in Palm Desert said they've been inundated with > them for 2 weeks. A friend who drives in from Placerville > had them all over his truck today. I was just outside here > in Mtn. View and I'm seeing one pass by at least every 30 > seconds. > > Chuck > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From rworth at oda.state.or.us Mon Apr 30 18:43:04 2001 From: rworth at oda.state.or.us (Richard Worth) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:43:04 -0700 Subject: Painted Lady Migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Listers, I noticed last Thursday afternoon, the 26th that there were many V. cardui flying through Salem, probably 10 or more in my field of view per minute. It was sunny and warm Wed and Thurs and I hadn't seen any in Portland while I was there on Wed (actually hit 80 deg F). So maybe they were just arriving. Unfortunately the weather shifted back to the normal seasonably cool and wet weather and I haven't seen a P.L. since. I think this is the farthest north report here in the west to date. Rich >Thanks for the observation. We could use more postings like this of >when and where these things are observed. Thank you. Richard A. Worth Oregon Department of Agriculture Plant Division rworth at oda.state.or.us (503) 986-6461 ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us Mon Apr 30 18:11:20 2001 From: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us (Robert Dana) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:11:20 -0500 Subject: Vanessa migration Message-ID: Yesterday (Sunday, 29 April) in the morning I noticed a substantial number of V. atalanta adults in Minneapolis, along with a lesser number of V. cardui. These were most commonly flying northward, but because this is a densely developed residential neighborhood, there was some dodging around houses, garages, trees, etc., and some investigation of plants, woodpile, etc. Later, I saw butterflies in a couple of semienclosed landscape and garden stores. The ones I got a good look at were moderately fresh looking. These are the first of either of these spp. I have seen this year, though colleagues at work mentioned having seen some numbers of them around here a couple of days earlier. There was a very strong southerly flow of air (wind!) yesterday, and temperatures got into the upper 80s (F) at least. ************************************************************* Robert Dana, Ph.D. MN DNR Natural Heritage and Nongame Research Program 500 Lafayette Rd, Box 25 St. Paul, MN 55155 651 297-2367 Email: robert.dana at dnr.state.mn.us ************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Mon Apr 30 21:25:08 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:25:08 -0400 Subject: Review: a history book on British butterflies In-Reply-To: "Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" "Curious centaureae case" (Apr 26, 8:19am) References: <60F1FEB31CA3D211A1B60008C7A45F430EDAAF38@blaze.bcsc.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: <1010430212511.ZM17702@Gochfeld> With regard to a recent interchange which suggested that it would be of interest to post reviews of books, I submit to the list the following (an abbreviated version of which will be published in CHOICE, the journal of the American Library Association). I can also share some other recent reviews published there. =============================================================== Salmon, Michael A. The Aurelian legacy: British butterflies and their collectors. University of California Press, 2000 432 pp. ISBN 0-520-22963-0 $35.00 This is a unique and fascinating history/biography of lepidoptery and lepidopterists of Britain, tracing the evolution of the sport or science from the mid-1500's (and particularly the late 1600's) to the present, including 101 mini-biographies (97 male/4 female). The descriptions and illustrations of the butterflies, their pursuers, and the equipment used are engaging and informative. The first 90 pages gives a history of collecting and the description of the devices used for obtaining and preserving specimens. These are linked to the changes in the culture and couture of the British. About 140 pages are devoted to the 101 biographies (all deceased) from which one could reconstruct changes in the science and art of lepidoptery. The biographies are uneven in coverage reflecting both the stature of the subject and the availability of information. Publications and descriptions are highlighted, often in much detail. There are interesting photos of field outings and of collection cabinets. We learn that there is no extant specimen of an certain kind of clapnet used in the 1800s. About 100 pages are devoted to accounts of 35 species of British butterflies, each conveying some unusual features of systematics, ecology, or behavior. A short chapter covers the issue of conservation and collecting, a debate which is traced back to the early 1800's. The two appendices list all the butterflies of the United Kingdom and the entomological societies and resources currently available to those who would embark on the hobby or study of butterflies. There are 41 color and 162 black and white plates, including the oft-published photo of Baron Rothschild driving his zebra team. Many of the details in the text are peripheral to butterflies, but provide a flavor of the times, for example the description of a dinner in the 1830s. "Aurelian" in the title refers to the first British entomologic society, formed in the early 1700s. This is an engaging and well-illustrated book and its history transcends Britain, for American lepidopterists trod the same paths---albeit somewhat later. This is not a book for someone making a field trip to England. It is not an identification guide (many of the color plates are of 18th century paintings). To be sure there are many details which some will find enriching and others trivial. We learn that William Kirby read scriptures in Greek or Hebrew before breakfast and the Christian fathers after breakfast, followed after lunch by exercise until dinner time. When did he have time to describe anything. I would have liked to learn about the American species he described. For those who enjoy the history of their passion, this book will be fascinating, and will set the stage for a comparable work for the colonies (whoops---that's us), a century from now. There have been, of course, biographical accounts of American lepidopterists, particularly A. Mallis' American Entomologists, but nothing like the rich texture of Salmon's book. For such a well-illustrated butterfly book, the price is very modest. M. Gochfeld--Robert Wood Johnson Medical School. [April 30, 2001] ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu Mon Apr 30 21:28:20 2001 From: gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu (Michael Gochfeld) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:28:20 -0400 Subject: American Ladies in the East In-Reply-To: Chuck Vaughn "Painted Lady Migration" (Apr 30, 1:46pm) References: Message-ID: <1010430212823.ZM17702@Gochfeld> Apropos of the migration of Painted Ladies: American Ladies, Vanessa virginiensis, is unusually common this spring in central and northern New Jersey. First appearing about mid-April after a very cold and protracted late winter/early spring, the individuals are still quite worn. They are present in the tens and twenties, not an inundation, but unusual numbers nonetheless. They don't really seem to be migrating as much as hanging around. There is some speculation that these may have overwintered locally as adults (hence the very worn condition) rather than being migrants from further south. M. Gochfeld ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From beebuzz at kiva.net Mon Apr 30 21:57:24 2001 From: beebuzz at kiva.net (Liz Day) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:57:24 -0500 Subject: the mystery of Vanessa unidirectional migration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20010430205138.00aa3590@b.pop.kiva.net> I don't understand what advantage this bug gains by migating north every spring, if the adults don't then migrate back south in the fall, and (?) thus their offspring are instead killed off by winter. Isn't this genetic suicide? I understand dispersion is good, but it seems like consistent directional dispersion in a direction that is ultimately death would be selected against, eventually. What is going on? I must not be seeing the whole picture. Thanks, ------------------------------------------------------------- Liz Day Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA (40 N, ~86 W) USDA zone 5b. Winters ~20F, summers ~85F. Formerly temperate deciduous forest. daylight at kiva.net www.kiva.net/~daylight ------------------------------------------------------------- "It is quite remarkable, when you think of it, that if you tell somebody to buy something and dump it on or squirt it on, he will almost certainly do it, after a fashion. But if you suggest that he observe something or think about something or learn about something, he almost certainly will not. Yet those gardens we admire are never the results of dumping and squirting: they are always the result of muddling things about in the brain and the eye." -- from _The Essential Earthman_, by the late Henry Mitchell ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From patfoley at csus.edu Mon Apr 30 22:45:26 2001 From: patfoley at csus.edu (Patrick Foley) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:45:26 -0700 Subject: the mystery of Vanessa unidirectional migration References: <4.3.2.7.1.20010430205138.00aa3590@b.pop.kiva.net> Message-ID: <3AEE2346.D0CD867A@csus.edu> Liz and other flagrant favorers of the furry fliers, Vanessa cardui does appear to migrate South in the Fall. How extensive this is I do not know, but see 1) Emmel T. and R. A. Wobus 1966. A southward migration of Vanessa cardui in late summer and fall. J. Lep. Soc 20:123-124. In Colorado USA 2) R. Robin Baker 1978. The Evolutionary Ecology of Animal Migration. Holmes and Meier, New York. p 431-432 where he discusses and maps the return trajectories of "Cynthia" cardui. It is worth remembering that almost all organisms, especially butterflies and humans, are descended from ancestors who, perhaps too crowded to be fit at home, took to the road to find underutilized resources. It was a stupid shot in the dark, but it works for the lucky survivors. Patrick Foley patfoley at csus.edu Liz Day wrote: > I don't understand what advantage this bug gains by migating north every > spring, if the adults don't then migrate back south in the fall, and (?) > thus their offspring are instead killed off by winter. Isn't this genetic > suicide? I understand dispersion is good, but it seems like consistent > directional dispersion in a direction that is ultimately death would be > selected against, eventually. What is going on? I must not be seeing the > whole picture. > > Thanks, > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Liz Day > Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA (40 N, ~86 W) > USDA zone 5b. Winters ~20F, summers ~85F. Formerly temperate deciduous > forest. > daylight at kiva.net > www.kiva.net/~daylight > ------------------------------------------------------------- > "It is quite remarkable, when you think of it, that if you tell somebody to > buy something and dump it on or squirt it on, he will almost certainly do > it, after a fashion. But if you suggest that he observe something or think > about something or learn about something, he almost certainly will > not. Yet those gardens we admire are never the results of dumping and > squirting: they are always the result of muddling things about in the brain > and the eye." > -- from _The Essential Earthman_, by the late Henry Mitchell > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: > > http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl > ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl From emengersen at admin.oldscollege.ab.ca Mon Apr 30 23:11:45 2001 From: emengersen at admin.oldscollege.ab.ca (Ernest Mengersen) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:11:45 -0600 Subject: the mystery of Vanessa unidirectional migration Message-ID: Two additions to Patrick Foley's references are: Myres, M. T. 1985. A southward return migration of painted lady butterflies, Vanessa cardui, over southern Alberta in the fall of 1983, and biometeorological aspects of their outbreaks in North America and Europe. Canadian Field-Naturalist 99(2): 147 - 155. Nelson, R. Wayne. 1985(?). Southward Migration of Painted Ladies in Alberta and British Columbia. Blue Jay 43: 7 15. Both are Canadian publications so may be difficult to find in the U.S. If I remember correnctly, someone on the west coast was doing some research on this topic last spring. Can anyone fill us in. Also, I have observed them heading south in late July, early August in high population years but the southward migration is definitely not as spectacular. Ernest Ernest ------------------------------------------------------------ For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit: http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl